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2025/11/22

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2025-11-22 03:26:58 +0000ubert1(~Thunderbi@77.119.163.162.wireless.dyn.drei.com) ubert
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2025-11-22 03:29:09 +0000Comstar(~Comstar@user/Comstar) Comstar
2025-11-22 03:29:26 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
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2025-11-22 03:29:43 +0000ubert1ubert
2025-11-22 03:31:34 +0000 <jreicher> Does anyone have a reference for the "Tag" that kuribas was talking about earlier?
2025-11-22 03:31:57 +0000 <jreicher> Did they mean Data.Tagged?
2025-11-22 03:33:00 +0000haltingsolver(~cmo@2604:3d09:207f:8000::d1dc) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2025-11-22 03:33:32 +0000Sgeo(~Sgeo@user/sgeo) Sgeo
2025-11-22 03:34:49 +0000 <int-e> I don't think it was anything concrete. It would conceptually be a GADT like data Tag t where Tag_Int :: Tag Int | Tag_List :: Tag t -> Tag [t] | ...
2025-11-22 03:34:57 +0000 <Leary> jreicher: I imagine they meant something equivalent to `Type.Reflection.TypeRep`.
2025-11-22 03:35:50 +0000Googulator87(~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-0231-f56c-45b8-e3c8-fdbd.pool6.digikabel.hu)
2025-11-22 03:35:53 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2025-11-22 03:36:12 +0000Googulator40(~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-0231-f56c-45b8-e3c8-fdbd.pool6.digikabel.hu) (Quit: Client closed)
2025-11-22 03:37:13 +0000 <monochrom> <troll>It just means "day" in German >:) </troll>
2025-11-22 03:38:08 +0000 <jreicher> :D
2025-11-22 03:39:23 +0000 <haskellbridge> <Liamzee> are there any reasons, like perofrmance, not to replace a long when sequence with traverse_ (uncurry when)?
2025-11-22 03:39:41 +0000 <haskellbridge> <Liamzee> i guess the biggest issue is freaking out newbies
2025-11-22 03:41:17 +0000humasect(~humasect@dyn-192-249-132-90.nexicom.net)
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2025-11-22 03:44:45 +0000 <monochrom> Actually I didn't think of that. Cool trick. :)
2025-11-22 03:44:52 +0000trickard_(~trickard@cpe-87-98-47-163.wireline.com.au)
2025-11-22 03:45:32 +0000trickard_trickard
2025-11-22 03:46:16 +0000 <monochrom> Necessity is the mother of invention. I guess I would think of that if I had 10 lines of "when"s. I had came up with clever uses of foldr and foldM in the past to replace 10 lines of something.
2025-11-22 03:46:49 +0000 <monochrom> or some other repetativeness.
2025-11-22 03:47:12 +0000 <monochrom> Ugh English. s/came/come/
2025-11-22 03:47:29 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-11-22 03:48:35 +0000 <monochrom> I am not sympathetic with young people overreacting and underthinking.
2025-11-22 03:50:27 +0000 <haskellbridge> <Liamzee> https://gitlab.haskell.org/Liamzy/haddocks-view/-/blob/master/utils/haddock/haddock-api/src/Haddoc…
2025-11-22 03:50:43 +0000Frostillicus(~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net)
2025-11-22 03:51:43 +0000 <haskellbridge> <Liamzee> i mean this: https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/blob/master/utils/haddock/haddock-api/src/Haddock.hs?ref_type…
2025-11-22 03:52:31 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2025-11-22 03:53:34 +0000 <monochrom> Haha that's epic.
2025-11-22 03:54:31 +0000 <Leary> I don't see what you gain from that refactor though; a string of `, (<cond>, <action>)` is no better than a string of `when <cond> <action>`. The latter is clear, local, and essentially the same length.
2025-11-22 03:54:51 +0000 <monochrom> It probably evolved from just 1 when-clause a long time ago to today's dozens by slowly accreting more when's over the years at the rate of 1 addition per year so at no point anyone would think about it.
2025-11-22 04:02:51 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-11-22 04:03:54 +0000fgarcia(~lei@user/fgarcia) fgarcia
2025-11-22 04:05:47 +0000 <haskellbridge> <Liamzee> Leary: it makes the string explicit instead of implicit, although i worry about the tuple
2025-11-22 04:06:28 +0000 <monochrom> Yeah the tuples would be annoying too.
2025-11-22 04:06:47 +0000 <haskellbridge> <Liamzee> also, in theory, the when chain is more portable and reusable as a list
2025-11-22 04:06:53 +0000machinedgod(~machinedg@d75-159-126-101.abhsia.telus.net) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
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2025-11-22 04:08:21 +0000 <haskellbridge> <Liamzee> for instance, if you have the set of conditions constant, you can have the set of flags constant, then generate the response by zipping it with a list of actions
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2025-11-22 04:49:00 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
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2025-11-22 04:53:21 +0000weary-traveler(~user@user/user363627) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2025-11-22 04:54:06 +0000 <Comstar> what's the bridge to
2025-11-22 04:54:26 +0000omidmash(~omidmash@user/omidmash) omidmash
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2025-11-22 04:56:11 +0000 <Comstar> the whois has a bit.ly with all the connections that's cool. Ty geekosaur for the bridge and documentation!
2025-11-22 05:00:12 +0000weary-traveler(~user@user/user363627) user363627
2025-11-22 05:04:23 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-11-22 05:05:47 +0000Googulator43(~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-0231-f56c-45b8-e3c8-fdbd.pool6.digikabel.hu) (Quit: Client closed)
2025-11-22 05:06:13 +0000Googulator43(~Googulato@85-238-67-234.pool.digikabel.hu)
2025-11-22 05:08:17 +0000 <fgarcia> Comstar: i think it is #haskell-space on matrix
2025-11-22 05:08:35 +0000jreicher(~user@user/jreicher) jreicher
2025-11-22 05:09:19 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2025-11-22 05:11:15 +0000 <Comstar> oh? the bitly lists it as being #haskell-irc:matrix.org <-> #haskell, fgarcia
2025-11-22 05:11:23 +0000 <Comstar> maybe it's outdated
2025-11-22 05:12:14 +0000 <fgarcia> Comstar: i read it from here https://wiki.haskell.org/IRC_channel though things may have changed
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2025-11-22 06:06:01 +0000inline__(~inlinE@2001-4dd7-ae97-0-4674-ae6d-2607-c022.ipv6dyn.netcologne.de) Inline
2025-11-22 06:06:10 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-11-22 06:07:39 +0000Inline(~inlinE@2001-4dd7-ae97-0-4674-ae6d-2607-c022.ipv6dyn.netcologne.de) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
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2025-11-22 06:23:39 +0000jreicher(~user@user/jreicher) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2025-11-22 06:25:27 +0000jreicher(~user@user/jreicher) jreicher
2025-11-22 06:30:12 +0000falafel(~falafel@2603:8000:ca00:83fb:1db5:6d25:28c0:7c1c) falafel
2025-11-22 06:33:24 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
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2025-11-22 06:55:22 +0000_d0t(~{-d0t-}@user/-d0t-/x-7915216) {-d0t-}
2025-11-22 07:01:52 +0000Frostillicus(~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2025-11-22 07:04:06 +0000peterbecich(~Thunderbi@172.222.148.214) peterbecich
2025-11-22 07:04:25 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-11-22 07:05:50 +0000Googulator70(~Googulato@85-238-67-234.pool.digikabel.hu)
2025-11-22 07:06:13 +0000Googulator77(~Googulato@85-238-67-234.pool.digikabel.hu) (Quit: Client closed)
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2025-11-22 07:19:31 +0000Frostillicus(~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net)
2025-11-22 07:19:48 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-11-22 07:21:48 +0000Comstar(~Comstar@user/Comstar) Comstar
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2025-11-22 07:23:32 +0000chromoblob(~chromoblo@user/chromob1ot1c) chromoblob\0
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2025-11-22 07:51:13 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2025-11-22 08:02:24 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
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2025-11-22 08:05:46 +0000Googulator57(~Googulato@85-238-67-234.pool.digikabel.hu)
2025-11-22 08:05:46 +0000Googulator70(~Googulato@85-238-67-234.pool.digikabel.hu) (Quit: Client closed)
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2025-11-22 08:17:57 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
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2025-11-22 08:36:25 +0000inline__Inline
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2025-11-22 08:46:10 +0000Tuplanolla(~Tuplanoll@91-152-225-194.elisa-laajakaista.fi) Tuplanolla
2025-11-22 08:48:53 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
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2025-11-22 09:23:27 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2025-11-22 09:34:22 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-11-22 09:39:04 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2025-11-22 09:45:00 +0000tzh(~tzh@c-76-115-131-146.hsd1.or.comcast.net) (Quit: zzz)
2025-11-22 09:48:57 +0000Frostillicus(~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net)
2025-11-22 09:49:44 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-11-22 09:52:33 +0000acidjnk(~acidjnk@p200300d6e71719523cbe3f8115602cb8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) acidjnk
2025-11-22 09:52:34 +0000 <tomsmeding> I have two ForeignPtrs pointing to resources on some external device; the finaliser for ForeignPtr 1 needs ForeignPtr 2 in order to properly free its resource. (FP 2 is some kind of "device context", and FP 1 wraps an "object" on that device.) This means that the finaliser for FP 2 may only start running after the finaliser for FP 1 has fully completed. GHC does not honour ordering dependencies
2025-11-22 09:52:34 +0000L29Ah(~L29Ah@wikipedia/L29Ah) L29Ah
2025-11-22 09:52:36 +0000 <tomsmeding> between finalisers of ForeignPtrs, and this results in crashes in practice for us. Is there some standard pattern I can apply here to still make my code work?
2025-11-22 09:54:05 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2025-11-22 09:55:40 +0000 <tomsmeding> s/may only start/must only be allowed to start/
2025-11-22 09:55:48 +0000wootehfoot(~wootehfoo@user/wootehfoot) wootehfoot
2025-11-22 09:56:10 +0000Frostillicus(~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2025-11-22 10:02:08 +0000tromp(~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:697a:bc7a:f580:408c) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2025-11-22 10:05:07 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-11-22 10:07:43 +0000tromp(~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:697a:bc7a:f580:408c)
2025-11-22 10:08:22 +0000 <Leary> tomsmeding: <https://hackage.haskell.org/package/base-4.21.0.0/docs/Foreign-ForeignPtr.html#v:touchForeignPtr>, but based on the docs you might be SOL.
2025-11-22 10:08:32 +0000trickard(~trickard@cpe-87-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2025-11-22 10:08:45 +0000trickard_(~trickard@cpe-87-98-47-163.wireline.com.au)
2025-11-22 10:09:01 +0000 <tomsmeding> Leary: That documentation is why I came here. :P
2025-11-22 10:09:31 +0000 <tomsmeding> I do love the unexpected deadlock situation that the docs describe
2025-11-22 10:09:49 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2025-11-22 10:10:38 +0000 <Leary> Well, add more `forkIO`, I guess.
2025-11-22 10:11:16 +0000 <tomsmeding> Yes, I'm not scared of a couple more forkIO, but it's a brilliant footgun
2025-11-22 10:12:34 +0000X-Scale(~ARM@6.67.114.89.rev.vodafone.pt) X-Scale
2025-11-22 10:15:02 +0000 <jreicher> ForkIO Asks a Question...
2025-11-22 10:19:59 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-11-22 10:24:02 +0000tromp(~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:697a:bc7a:f580:408c) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2025-11-22 10:24:34 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2025-11-22 10:27:46 +0000tromp(~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:697a:bc7a:f580:408c)
2025-11-22 10:30:41 +0000synchromesh(~john@2406:5a00:2412:2c00:1c88:6424:1e2a:539d) (Quit: WeeChat 4.1.1)
2025-11-22 10:34:15 +0000trickard_(~trickard@cpe-87-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2025-11-22 10:34:29 +0000trickard_(~trickard@cpe-87-98-47-163.wireline.com.au)
2025-11-22 10:35:22 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-11-22 10:35:59 +0000ljdarj(~Thunderbi@user/ljdarj) ljdarj
2025-11-22 10:39:54 +0000__monty__(~toonn@user/toonn) toonn
2025-11-22 10:42:06 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2025-11-22 10:53:24 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-11-22 10:58:09 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2025-11-22 11:08:47 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-11-22 11:13:19 +0000sp1ff`(~user@2601:1c2:4c00:6820::e122)
2025-11-22 11:13:19 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2025-11-22 11:14:26 +0000Ranhir(~Ranhir@157.97.53.139) Ranhir
2025-11-22 11:14:29 +0000sp1ff(~user@2601:1c2:4c00:6820::8bad) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2025-11-22 11:14:36 +0000Frostillicus(~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net)
2025-11-22 11:20:59 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-11-22 11:21:35 +0000annamalai(~annamalai@157.32.221.227) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2025-11-22 11:25:44 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2025-11-22 11:32:25 +0000jreicher(~user@user/jreicher) (Quit: In transit)
2025-11-22 11:35:50 +0000Sgeo(~Sgeo@user/sgeo) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2025-11-22 11:36:22 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-11-22 11:36:29 +0000 <probie> I think a ref count is a good idea.
2025-11-22 11:37:17 +0000ljdarj(~Thunderbi@user/ljdarj) (Quit: ljdarj)
2025-11-22 11:38:59 +0000 <probie> f = atomicModifyIORef ref (\x -> (x-1, x <= 1)) >>= (`when` runFP2Cleanup)
2025-11-22 11:39:34 +0000 <probie> initialise the ref to 2, add `f` as the last instruction to the finaliser for FP1, and have the finaliser for FP2 just be `f`
2025-11-22 11:40:43 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2025-11-22 11:51:46 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-11-22 11:54:43 +0000 <tomsmeding> probie: that's also a cute solution
2025-11-22 11:55:52 +0000 <tomsmeding> in this case, because of the semantics of the device (it's a GPU), cleaning up FP2 _before_ FP1 implicitly also cleans up FP1, so I implemented some synchronisation so that if the finalizer of FP2 happens to be run first, FP1's finalizer just does nothing
2025-11-22 11:56:38 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2025-11-22 11:56:45 +0000 <tomsmeding> (what is actually concretely disallowed is explicitly cleaning up FP1 after FP2, or running the two in parallel)
2025-11-22 11:58:54 +0000trickard_trickard
2025-11-22 12:00:55 +0000Frostillicus(~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2025-11-22 12:06:32 +0000X-Scale(~ARM@6.67.114.89.rev.vodafone.pt) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2025-11-22 12:07:10 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
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2025-11-22 12:17:35 +0000ubert1(~Thunderbi@91.141.74.115.wireless.dyn.drei.com) ubert
2025-11-22 12:19:15 +0000tromp(~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:697a:bc7a:f580:408c) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2025-11-22 12:19:38 +0000Everything(~Everythin@88.155.11.254) Everything
2025-11-22 12:19:40 +0000ubert(~Thunderbi@77.119.163.162.wireless.dyn.drei.com) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2025-11-22 12:19:41 +0000ubert1ubert
2025-11-22 12:19:59 +0000Frostillicus(~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net)
2025-11-22 12:21:59 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-11-22 12:24:12 +0000X-Scale(~ARM@6.67.114.89.rev.vodafone.pt) X-Scale
2025-11-22 12:26:24 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
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2025-11-22 12:37:01 +0000jreicher(~user@user/jreicher) jreicher
2025-11-22 12:37:10 +0000Frostillicus(~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net)
2025-11-22 12:37:31 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-11-22 12:39:15 +0000trickard(~trickard@cpe-87-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2025-11-22 12:39:28 +0000trickard_(~trickard@cpe-87-98-47-163.wireline.com.au)
2025-11-22 12:42:04 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2025-11-22 12:42:13 +0000Googulator57(~Googulato@85-238-67-234.pool.digikabel.hu) (Quit: Client closed)
2025-11-22 12:42:36 +0000Googulator57(~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-0231-f56c-45b8-e3c8-fdbd.pool6.digikabel.hu)
2025-11-22 12:45:13 +0000AlexZenon(~alzenon@94.233.240.123) (Quit: ;-)
2025-11-22 12:46:06 +0000AlexNoo(~AlexNoo@94.233.240.123) (Quit: Leaving)
2025-11-22 12:46:32 +0000L29Ah(~L29Ah@wikipedia/L29Ah) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2025-11-22 12:48:02 +0000mniip_mniip
2025-11-22 12:52:34 +0000trickard_(~trickard@cpe-87-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2025-11-22 12:52:54 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-11-22 12:52:57 +0000trickard_(~trickard@cpe-87-98-47-163.wireline.com.au)
2025-11-22 12:57:32 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2025-11-22 13:08:17 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
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2025-11-22 13:12:50 +0000falafel(~falafel@2603:8000:ca00:83fb:1db5:6d25:28c0:7c1c) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2025-11-22 13:13:38 +0000Nachtgespenst(~user@user/siracusa) (Quit: Bye!)
2025-11-22 13:20:13 +0000Frostillicus(~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2025-11-22 13:20:33 +0000AlexNoo(~AlexNoo@94.233.240.123)
2025-11-22 13:21:46 +0000AlexZenon(~alzenon@94.233.240.123)
2025-11-22 13:23:00 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-11-22 13:24:21 +0000Frostillicus(~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net)
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2025-11-22 13:41:02 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
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2025-11-22 15:35:43 +0000mmaruseacph2(~mihai@mihai.page) mmaruseacph2
2025-11-22 15:37:06 +0000 <geekosaur> fgarcia, Comstar: #haskell-space is a space (group of rooms). #fashell-irc is the actual room
2025-11-22 15:37:26 +0000 <geekosaur> #haskell-irc
2025-11-22 15:37:33 +0000 <geekosaur> still working on first coffee…
2025-11-22 15:40:21 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-11-22 15:43:00 +0000jmcantrell(~weechat@user/jmcantrell) jmcantrell
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2025-11-22 15:51:16 +0000L29Ah(~L29Ah@wikipedia/L29Ah) L29Ah
2025-11-22 15:59:09 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
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2025-11-22 16:06:22 +0000Googulator98(~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-0231-f56c-45b8-e3c8-fdbd.pool6.digikabel.hu) (Quit: Client closed)
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2025-11-22 16:12:54 +0000 <EvanR> fashell sounds like it could be a thing
2025-11-22 16:14:33 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-11-22 16:15:08 +0000 <haskellbridge> <Morj> Fashell sounds like the twitter users would call a shell made by someone they don't like
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2025-11-22 16:30:07 +0000Lord_of_Life_(~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915) Lord_of_Life
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2025-11-22 16:31:27 +0000Lord_of_Life_Lord_of_Life
2025-11-22 16:41:10 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
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2025-11-22 16:49:53 +0000mreh(~matthew@host86-146-25-125.range86-146.btcentralplus.com) mreh
2025-11-22 16:51:27 +0000sindu(~sindu@2.148.32.207.tmi.telenormobil.no)
2025-11-22 16:53:44 +0000 <mreh> it's been a good PR week for statically typed languages
2025-11-22 16:56:56 +0000Frostillicus(~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net)
2025-11-22 16:59:11 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-11-22 17:03:46 +0000 <glguy> why's that?
2025-11-22 17:04:13 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2025-11-22 17:04:29 +0000CiaoSen(~Jura@2a02:8071:64e1:da0:5a47:caff:fe78:33db) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2025-11-22 17:07:14 +0000kayvank(~kayvank@52-119-115-185.PUBLIC.monkeybrains.net) kayvank
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2025-11-22 17:14:35 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-11-22 17:17:54 +0000 <mreh> glguy: referring to the use of unwrap() by Cloudflare which brought down half the internet
2025-11-22 17:18:02 +0000 <mreh> (not Haskell, sorry)
2025-11-22 17:18:37 +0000 <glguy> oh, ok. what was the link to static types there?
2025-11-22 17:19:04 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2025-11-22 17:19:06 +0000 <mreh> unwrap is equivalent to fromJust I suppose
2025-11-22 17:19:30 +0000 <mreh> I can't find a searchable log to see if there was any discussion of it
2025-11-22 17:22:32 +0000 <mreh> I dont understand the specifics of it, but I think it was called partly to assert some variant that the type couldn't prove. Wish I had more insight.
2025-11-22 17:22:52 +0000 <EvanR> what language is unwrap
2025-11-22 17:23:01 +0000 <gmg> Rust?
2025-11-22 17:23:09 +0000 <EvanR> gross
2025-11-22 17:23:32 +0000 <EvanR> sounds like they were thinking of burritos when they named it
2025-11-22 17:23:40 +0000 <yushyin> xD
2025-11-22 17:24:07 +0000 <mreh> EvanR, gmg, yes Rust
2025-11-22 17:26:59 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
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2025-11-22 17:33:02 +0000kayvank(~kayvan@52-119-115-185.PUBLIC.monkeybrains.net) kayvank
2025-11-22 17:34:02 +0000haritz(~hrtz@2a01:4b00:bc2e:7000:d5af:a266:ca31:5ef8)
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2025-11-22 17:34:02 +0000haritz(~hrtz@user/haritz) haritz
2025-11-22 17:36:23 +0000haltingsolver(~cmo@2604:3d09:207f:8000::d1dc)
2025-11-22 17:42:24 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-11-22 17:43:23 +0000AlexZenon(~alzenon@94.233.240.123) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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2025-11-22 17:49:23 +0000AlexZenon(~alzenon@94.233.240.123)
2025-11-22 17:52:18 +0000 <monochrom> I think I remember now, Rust's equivalent of our Maybe type has an unwrap() meaning our fromJust.
2025-11-22 17:53:09 +0000 <monochrom> This isn't PR for static typing (Haskell can do the same thing) unless you have dependent typing in mind.
2025-11-22 17:53:43 +0000AlexZenon(~alzenon@94.233.240.123) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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2025-11-22 17:54:42 +0000califax(~califax@user/califx) califx
2025-11-22 17:54:42 +0000 <EvanR> it is PR for logic
2025-11-22 17:55:02 +0000AlexZenon(~alzenon@94.233.240.123)
2025-11-22 17:55:03 +0000 <EvanR> unwrap is illegal unless you have a possibly invisible proof that it's not Nothing or whatever it is in rust
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2025-11-22 17:55:43 +0000 <monochrom> I can stand with that. :)
2025-11-22 17:55:45 +0000 <EvanR> if you managed to encode all this with dependent types it's not invisible
2025-11-22 17:55:55 +0000 <EvanR> which may scare small children
2025-11-22 17:56:55 +0000 <EvanR> but that does call into question the "safety" of rust doesn't it
2025-11-22 17:57:46 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-11-22 17:58:03 +0000deptype(~deptype@2406:b400:3a:9d2f:8494:f4e8:5c4a:6a4)
2025-11-22 17:58:20 +0000 <monochrom> They never claimed safety from partial functions. They only claimed memory safety such as from dangling pointers and double-free.
2025-11-22 17:59:41 +0000 <monochrom> "safety", "security", "OOP" are some of the most polymorphic words people use to mean whatever they don't tell you.
2025-11-22 18:00:47 +0000 <mreh> you make good points, but most people aren't going to see it that way
2025-11-22 18:01:05 +0000euphores(~SASL_euph@user/euphores) euphores
2025-11-22 18:01:11 +0000 <mreh> anyway, I just came to see if people had perspective in a language I understood better
2025-11-22 18:01:23 +0000 <monochrom> It's why I'm pessimistic and cynical about humanity altogether. :)
2025-11-22 18:02:07 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2025-11-22 18:02:28 +0000 <mreh> I think pushing hard for Rust to replace mature systems has rather backfired in recent weeks. Make me appreciate this community even more.
2025-11-22 18:02:31 +0000 <monochrom> https://www.vex.net/~trebla/humour/pessimisms.html enjoy :)
2025-11-22 18:02:32 +0000 <mreh> Makes*
2025-11-22 18:03:02 +0000 <EvanR> the invisible proofs thing is a thing I learned in Idris that helps in C. But in rust they think they have nothing to learn from C, and I saw that I learned from everything
2025-11-22 18:03:13 +0000 <monochrom> As in, you appreciate that we don't push hard for Haskell? :)
2025-11-22 18:03:48 +0000 <EvanR> in fact in helps in any language that allows bogus code
2025-11-22 18:03:54 +0000 <EvanR> including haskell
2025-11-22 18:04:14 +0000 <mreh> monochrom: seen the "Avoid success at all costs" video from SPJ?
2025-11-22 18:04:23 +0000 <monochrom> Actually no.
2025-11-22 18:05:04 +0000 <mreh> I think he makes some good points about trying to make a language with mass appeal
2025-11-22 18:06:04 +0000 <EvanR> I remember one where he shows a graph of programming language lifetimes
2025-11-22 18:06:12 +0000 <EvanR> most die before having more than 1 user
2025-11-22 18:06:27 +0000 <EvanR> but some get to the point of "not being allowed to die" because too much code was written in them
2025-11-22 18:06:40 +0000 <monochrom> But I agree about being hesistant to replace mature systems. Even when it's a good idea, it needs to be well planned out with multiple backup plans.
2025-11-22 18:07:17 +0000 <mreh> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=re96UgMk6GQ I think it was this talk where he coined that phrase
2025-11-22 18:07:32 +0000 <EvanR> the argument to replace C with rust usually involves how bad people are at writing C code
2025-11-22 18:07:39 +0000 <mreh> lol
2025-11-22 18:07:40 +0000 <EvanR> but more and more it sounds like an argument against people
2025-11-22 18:07:54 +0000 <mreh> yeah
2025-11-22 18:08:06 +0000 <mreh> this incident rather torpedos that argument
2025-11-22 18:08:07 +0000 <monochrom> I agree about being against people, at least most people.
2025-11-22 18:09:43 +0000 <EvanR> if it takes 40 years to get good at writing code, maybe that's bad. And the goal is to do something to bring kids up to speed in 10 years or 5 years. But rust doesn't seem to have that in the design
2025-11-22 18:10:59 +0000 <monochrom> For example, Dennis Ritchie and Alan Kay are extremely smart people, so when they say unsafe unchecked languages like C and Lisp work great for them, sure. But when they say it will also work for the rest of us because "oh-so flexible, oh-so unleash your creativity" I say no, the rest of us need at least static type checking.
2025-11-22 18:11:13 +0000sindu(~sindu@2.148.32.207.tmi.telenormobil.no) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2025-11-22 18:11:55 +0000 <monochrom> Generally the problem with opinion leaders is that their opinions work great for themselves because they are so smart. Not so great for the rest of us.
2025-11-22 18:12:46 +0000sindu(~sindu@2.148.32.207.tmi.telenormobil.no)
2025-11-22 18:13:08 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-11-22 18:13:16 +0000 <mauke> I know a lot of people who would take issue with "need at least static type checking" (and calling Lisp "unsafe")
2025-11-22 18:13:51 +0000 <monochrom> I'm sure. Of course they bought Ritchie's and Kay's opinion.
2025-11-22 18:14:18 +0000 <monochrom> Because Ritchie and Kay are opinion leaders. Everyone wants to follow opinion leaders.
2025-11-22 18:15:01 +0000 <monochrom> You have heard "history is written by the victors". But have you also considered: Success stories are written by victors.
2025-11-22 18:15:15 +0000 <mreh> It's quite lucrative to follow the herd
2025-11-22 18:15:40 +0000 <monochrom> Even more sinister if you think about it.
2025-11-22 18:15:43 +0000 <glguy> monochrom: I've heard of "survivorship bias"
2025-11-22 18:15:46 +0000 <EvanR> history is written by the victors, except in the US south, but that's another story
2025-11-22 18:15:55 +0000 <monochrom> haha
2025-11-22 18:16:29 +0000 <Franciman> who is Victor who write all this stories? :P
2025-11-22 18:16:48 +0000sadeq_ir(~sadeq_ir@5.239.173.93)
2025-11-22 18:16:54 +0000 <glguy> That'd be fun to get a history book with two authors having the first name Victor
2025-11-22 18:17:19 +0000 <monochrom> haha let me search on Amazon...
2025-11-22 18:17:24 +0000 <mreh> aren't vectors why people chose to write Rust in the first place?
2025-11-22 18:17:35 +0000 <Franciman> lol
2025-11-22 18:17:39 +0000sadeq_ir(~sadeq_ir@5.239.173.93) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-11-22 18:17:59 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2025-11-22 18:18:17 +0000 <monochrom> "The Second World Wars: How the First Global Conflict Was Fought and Won" Victor Davis Hanson
2025-11-22 18:18:34 +0000 <monochrom> literally all of: history, won, victor
2025-11-22 18:18:37 +0000 <Franciman> lol
2025-11-22 18:18:58 +0000 <monochrom> Oh need two Victors. OK, searching...
2025-11-22 18:20:03 +0000 <Franciman> lolol
2025-11-22 18:20:25 +0000Everything(~Everythin@172-232-54-192.ip.linodeusercontent.com) Everything
2025-11-22 18:21:23 +0000jmcantrell(~weechat@user/jmcantrell) jmcantrell
2025-11-22 18:23:31 +0000 <monochrom> OK Rufus says it can't find one history book with two Victors.
2025-11-22 18:24:06 +0000 <monochrom> (And me, I clicked on 10 candidate books, then gave up. Sorry!)
2025-11-22 18:24:30 +0000 <Franciman> we had fun, thanks
2025-11-22 18:24:31 +0000 <glguy> maybe an llm could haluciate one for you
2025-11-22 18:24:52 +0000 <int-e> "AI shopping assistant"
2025-11-22 18:25:21 +0000 <enikar> :D
2025-11-22 18:25:46 +0000 <int-e> Meanwhile I'll assume that "haluciate" is proper jargon and move on.
2025-11-22 18:26:20 +0000 <glguy> I just don't know how to spell
2025-11-22 18:28:00 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-11-22 18:29:15 +0000Frostillicus(~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net)
2025-11-22 18:31:33 +0000 <Franciman> glguy: it may be a nice word to express the concept
2025-11-22 18:31:42 +0000 <Franciman> itself produced in the same way
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2025-11-22 18:39:47 +0000 <EvanR> halciate is how stable diffusion spells it
2025-11-22 18:39:52 +0000tzh(~tzh@c-76-115-131-146.hsd1.or.comcast.net) tzh
2025-11-22 18:40:06 +0000 <EvanR> which will be standard soon
2025-11-22 18:43:01 +0000machinedgod(~machinedg@d75-159-126-101.abhsia.telus.net) machinedgod
2025-11-22 18:43:32 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
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2025-11-22 18:50:35 +0000Sgeo(~Sgeo@user/sgeo) Sgeo
2025-11-22 18:51:39 +0000weary-traveler(~user@user/user363627) user363627
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2025-11-22 18:59:01 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-11-22 18:59:29 +0000weary-traveler(~user@user/user363627) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2025-11-22 18:59:45 +0000weary-traveler(~user@user/user363627) user363627
2025-11-22 19:00:50 +0000 <darkling> Not to be confused with halloumination, which is when you get bad dreams from eating too much cheese.
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2025-11-22 19:28:59 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-11-22 19:30:56 +0000peterbecich(~Thunderbi@172.222.148.214) peterbecich
2025-11-22 19:31:23 +0000emmanuelux(~emmanuelu@user/emmanuelux) emmanuelux
2025-11-22 19:32:28 +0000 <haskellbridge> <Morj> Similar to how there is "forM = flip traverse", is there an common name for "flip fix"? Can't find anything useful in hoogle
2025-11-22 19:32:54 +0000 <haskellbridge> <Morj> I like to use it to write one-line cycles like "flip fix initial $ \i next -> ..."
2025-11-22 19:34:08 +0000 <haskellbridge> <Morj> *\next i (the arguments should be the opposite way)
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2025-11-22 19:35:37 +0000tomsmedingusually writes a self-referential let binding for that
2025-11-22 19:35:39 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2025-11-22 19:35:59 +0000 <EvanR> flip fix x y z $ \a b c d -> ... is funny but I could not subject the general public to
2025-11-22 19:36:21 +0000 <EvanR> it makes us look like we don't have nice things
2025-11-22 19:37:03 +0000 <haskellbridge> <Morj> Dude rust already has "loop" as an expression, why can't we
2025-11-22 19:37:19 +0000 <tomsmeding> :t Control.Monad.forever
2025-11-22 19:37:20 +0000 <lambdabot> Applicative f => f a -> f b
2025-11-22 19:37:46 +0000 <haskellbridge> <Morj> A self-referential binding is also good, but places emphasis on the binding, which a lot of the times is useless
2025-11-22 19:37:56 +0000 <tomsmeding> I can see that
2025-11-22 19:38:07 +0000 <tomsmeding> to wit, recursive helper functions named 'go'
2025-11-22 19:38:46 +0000 <haskellbridge> <Morj> Yeah, sometimes I have goList1, goList2, goTree etc if there are too many structures to fold
2025-11-22 19:39:08 +0000 <haskellbridge> <Morj> Or used to have this until I learned this fix trick
2025-11-22 19:39:12 +0000 <tomsmeding> at that point the names actually start becoming useful, IMO
2025-11-22 19:39:37 +0000 <tomsmeding> or at least, I like seeing the point where you recurse into a different structure
2025-11-22 19:39:38 +0000 <haskellbridge> <Morj> Mm not really, it's just "let var1 = goList1 list1" for every
2025-11-22 19:39:54 +0000 <tomsmeding> maybe my brain is not big enough yet
2025-11-22 19:40:03 +0000 <haskellbridge> <Morj> Haha
2025-11-22 19:40:11 +0000 <EvanR> please give me a recursion combinator
2025-11-22 19:40:15 +0000 <haskellbridge> <Morj> When I do this I imagine myself an imperative grug
2025-11-22 19:40:23 +0000 <tomsmeding> ω ω
2025-11-22 19:40:34 +0000 <haskellbridge> <Morj> Because it is just a while loop expressed with functions
2025-11-22 19:40:41 +0000 <EvanR> which does the exact pattern I need at this moment
2025-11-22 19:40:52 +0000 <EvanR> with a pithy name
2025-11-22 19:41:01 +0000Frostillicus(~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2025-11-22 19:41:06 +0000 <EvanR> if pithy not available a bird will do
2025-11-22 19:41:17 +0000 <tomsmeding> I was gonna say, we need a data-aviary version of recursion-schemes
2025-11-22 19:45:00 +0000 <chromoblob> (`fix` initial) $ \next i -> ...
2025-11-22 19:46:15 +0000 <haskellbridge> <Morj> As if the general public wasn't frightened enough..
2025-11-22 19:46:57 +0000mreh(~matthew@host86-146-25-125.range86-146.btcentralplus.com) (Quit: Lost terminal)
2025-11-22 19:47:02 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-11-22 19:48:50 +0000 <EvanR> frighten wasn't the emotion I was thinking of
2025-11-22 19:49:25 +0000 <EvanR> and the general public I was thinking of was haskell programmers not the mailman
2025-11-22 19:49:32 +0000 <chromoblob> i'm more frightened by flip f b a, it feels like a redirected thread in my head, like __s---
2025-11-22 19:50:32 +0000 <EvanR> a single flip is good for party tricks
2025-11-22 19:50:33 +0000 <chromoblob> i guess i don't accept "flip" as a standard function. who and when would want to reorder arguments
2025-11-22 19:51:02 +0000 <EvanR> sometimes the order of arguments doesn't have 1 best choice
2025-11-22 19:51:13 +0000 <EvanR> so you can't blame the person who defined it
2025-11-22 19:51:16 +0000 <chromoblob> then have two names for two orders
2025-11-22 19:51:17 +0000 <haskellbridge> <Morj> I agree with you, that's why I was asking if this pattern is known and has a better named combinator :-)
2025-11-22 19:51:46 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2025-11-22 19:51:53 +0000 <chromoblob> or use points: (\a b -> (...) b a) ...
2025-11-22 19:52:01 +0000 <EvanR> yeah
2025-11-22 19:52:05 +0000 <EvanR> and you can define it like this
2025-11-22 19:52:07 +0000 <EvanR> g = flip f
2025-11-22 19:52:11 +0000 <EvanR> \o/
2025-11-22 19:52:26 +0000 <EvanR> @src forM
2025-11-22 19:52:26 +0000 <lambdabot> forM = flip mapM
2025-11-22 19:52:26 +0000 <chromoblob> ohh
2025-11-22 19:52:47 +0000Nachtgespenst(~user@user/siracusa) siracusa
2025-11-22 19:52:47 +0000 <EvanR> this is a great usecase for flip
2025-11-22 19:53:28 +0000 <chromoblob> why isn't there more flips - flip3_1, flip3_2, ..., flip3_6
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2025-11-22 19:53:59 +0000 <EvanR> do you mean n factorial flips for each N
2025-11-22 19:54:01 +0000 <chromoblob> or one could call them like: abcToAcb, abcToBac, ...
2025-11-22 19:54:26 +0000 <chromoblob> yes
2025-11-22 19:54:34 +0000 <EvanR> at this point use nonpointless form
2025-11-22 19:54:36 +0000deptype(~deptype@2406:b400:3a:9d2f:1c0f:7b0:178a:6f00)
2025-11-22 19:54:46 +0000 <EvanR> g a b c d e = f c d e a b
2025-11-22 19:54:53 +0000 <haskellbridge> <Morj> I have flashbacks to a system which had those factorial-flips, but I erased it from my memory
2025-11-22 19:55:08 +0000 <haskellbridge> <Morj> Was it in qt for signals
2025-11-22 19:56:25 +0000peterbecich(~Thunderbi@172.222.148.214) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2025-11-22 19:57:04 +0000falafel(~falafel@2603:8000:ca00:83fb:1db5:6d25:28c0:7c1c) falafel
2025-11-22 20:00:05 +0000 <haskellbridge> <Morj> God damn it, why does curl not hit a captcha, but http-client-tls does
2025-11-22 20:00:37 +0000raym_(~ray@user/raym) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2025-11-22 20:02:24 +0000 <[exa]> Morj: it's curl, it has authenticated as a bot, no need to captcha!
2025-11-22 20:02:31 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-11-22 20:02:38 +0000raym(~ray@user/raym) raym
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2025-11-22 20:14:16 +0000 <haskellbridge> <Morj> I wonder if the page I'm scraping is going to block curl after 500 requests (in 500*2 seconds)
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2025-11-22 20:15:24 +0000 <haskellbridge> <Morj> An btw 'scalpel' package is pretty good
2025-11-22 20:16:18 +0000Square3(~Square@user/square) Square
2025-11-22 20:16:38 +0000Fischmiep(~Fischmiep@user/Fischmiep) (Quit: ZNC - https://znc.in)
2025-11-22 20:17:55 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-11-22 20:18:21 +0000Lycurgus(~juan@user/Lycurgus) Lycurgus
2025-11-22 20:18:28 +0000Fischmiep(~Fischmiep@user/Fischmiep) Fischmiep
2025-11-22 20:18:52 +0000jmcantrell(~weechat@user/jmcantrell) jmcantrell
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2025-11-22 20:20:09 +0000Fischmiep(~Fischmiep@user/Fischmiep) Fischmiep
2025-11-22 20:21:05 +0000 <haskellbridge> <Morj> The worst part is that I can't define the parsers at module's top level because of ambigous types. Makes iterating in ghci a bit annoying
2025-11-22 20:21:37 +0000 <bwe> How can I make 0 unrepresentable for a data type that is Int right now?
2025-11-22 20:22:07 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2025-11-22 20:22:18 +0000 <EvanR> a newtype wrapper with a smart constructor?
2025-11-22 20:22:32 +0000 <glguy> check for 0 in the function that constructs values of your new type
2025-11-22 20:23:25 +0000 <EvanR> another avenue is to make the new type represent the value wrapped value + something
2025-11-22 20:23:50 +0000 <EvanR> but that might be too heady
2025-11-22 20:24:26 +0000 <bwe> glguy: oh, that's a nice trick. So I am not constructing it with MyType but newMyType that checks for 0.
2025-11-22 20:24:49 +0000 <monochrom> Use Natural or Word but consistently off by 1, e.g., 1 is represented by 0.
2025-11-22 20:24:59 +0000 <haskellbridge> <Morj> Yes, this is a common trick. Usually used for data structures, like https://hackage.haskell.org/package/mono-traversable-1.0.21.0/docs/Data-NonNull.html
2025-11-22 20:25:10 +0000 <EvanR> yes Word is what I should have thought of
2025-11-22 20:25:14 +0000 <EvanR> Word + 1
2025-11-22 20:26:16 +0000 <EvanR> then zero is literally not representable... but 255 is necessarily an error
2025-11-22 20:26:28 +0000 <bwe> Word is confusing
2025-11-22 20:26:30 +0000 <EvanR> er, maxWord
2025-11-22 20:26:59 +0000 <monochrom> Word is no more confusing than Int.
2025-11-22 20:27:12 +0000 <bwe> No, I mean the word `Word`.
2025-11-22 20:27:23 +0000 <haskellbridge> <Morj> If Word is not confusing, what's the name of dynamic-sized word?
2025-11-22 20:27:32 +0000 <haskellbridge> <Morj> Don't say Wordeger
2025-11-22 20:28:20 +0000 <monochrom> No more confusing than any other meaningful names.
2025-11-22 20:29:30 +0000arandombit(~arandombi@user/arandombit) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2025-11-22 20:29:38 +0000 <glguy> Natural
2025-11-22 20:30:01 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-11-22 20:30:14 +0000 <monochrom> type Lexicon = Word >:)
2025-11-22 20:30:27 +0000arandombit(~arandombi@user/arandombit) arandombit
2025-11-22 20:30:55 +0000 <EvanR> data NonZero = PosMinusOne Natural | NegPlusOne Natural
2025-11-22 20:30:56 +0000monochromis preparing to teach a compiler course in which we begin with tokenization aka lexical analysis!
2025-11-22 20:31:46 +0000 <int-e> monochrom: teach it with s/parsing/word processing/g? :P
2025-11-22 20:31:57 +0000 <monochrom> haha that's great
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2025-11-22 20:37:44 +0000 <mauke> type Lexicon = [Word]
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2025-11-22 20:46:11 +0000 <EvanR> Dyslexicons transform and roll out
2025-11-22 20:47:18 +0000 <monochrom> heh
2025-11-22 20:50:07 +0000Pixi`(~Pixi@user/pixi) Pixi
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2025-11-22 21:32:30 +0000 <haskellbridge> <Zemyla> I'm thinking about coexponentials.
2025-11-22 21:32:48 +0000fp(~Thunderbi@2001-14ba-6e24-3000--198.rev.dnainternet.fi) fp
2025-11-22 21:34:08 +0000 <haskellbridge> <Zemyla> Exponentials have an eval :: (exp a b, a) -> b function. Coexponentials would have coeval :: b -> Either (coexp a b. a), which doesn't exist in Hask. However, it does exist in Kleisli (Cont r).
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2025-11-22 21:35:22 +0000 <haskellbridge> <Zemyla> It'd be coeval :: b -> m (Either (Coexp m a b) a), where Coexp m a b = (b, a -> m Void).
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2025-11-22 21:37:54 +0000CiaoSen(~Jura@2a02:8071:64e1:da0:5a47:caff:fe78:33db) CiaoSen
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2025-11-22 22:15:47 +0000Square3(~Square@user/square) Square
2025-11-22 22:15:47 +0000L29Ah(~L29Ah@wikipedia/L29Ah) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2025-11-22 22:17:24 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-11-22 22:22:01 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2025-11-22 22:32:53 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-11-22 22:35:16 +0000deptype(~deptype@2406:b400:3a:9d2f:c47b:d446:60a0:f965) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-11-22 22:35:52 +0000deptype(~deptype@2406:b400:3a:9d2f:8822:f1c8:bfbe:4a80)
2025-11-22 22:37:30 +0000bitdex(~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex) bitdex
2025-11-22 22:38:47 +0000divlamir(~divlamir@user/divlamir) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2025-11-22 22:39:06 +0000divlamir(~divlamir@user/divlamir) divlamir
2025-11-22 22:39:22 +0000Frostillicus(~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2025-11-22 22:39:37 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2025-11-22 22:43:16 +0000humasect(~humasect@dyn-192-249-132-90.nexicom.net) humasect
2025-11-22 22:50:04 +0000Frostillicus(~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net)
2025-11-22 22:50:56 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-11-22 22:53:09 +0000humasect(~humasect@dyn-192-249-132-90.nexicom.net) (Quit: Leaving...)
2025-11-22 22:54:22 +0000bggd(~bgg@2a01:e0a:819:1510:4ee8:95df:342d:f89b)
2025-11-22 22:55:16 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2025-11-22 22:55:19 +0000deptype(~deptype@2406:b400:3a:9d2f:8822:f1c8:bfbe:4a80) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-11-22 22:55:54 +0000deptype(~deptype@2406:b400:3a:9d2f:7827:c6b0:e65c:559e)
2025-11-22 23:00:31 +0000Frostillicus(~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2025-11-22 23:03:32 +0000fp(~Thunderbi@2001-14ba-6e24-3000--198.rev.dnainternet.fi) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-11-22 23:06:19 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-11-22 23:08:42 +0000bggd(~bgg@2a01:e0a:819:1510:4ee8:95df:342d:f89b) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-11-22 23:09:19 +0000L29Ah(~L29Ah@wikipedia/L29Ah) L29Ah
2025-11-22 23:11:07 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2025-11-22 23:13:21 +0000fp(~Thunderbi@2001-14ba-6e24-3000--198.rev.dnainternet.fi) fp
2025-11-22 23:15:21 +0000deptype(~deptype@2406:b400:3a:9d2f:7827:c6b0:e65c:559e) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-11-22 23:15:31 +0000Ranhir(~Ranhir@157.97.53.139) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-11-22 23:15:56 +0000deptype(~deptype@2406:b400:3a:9d2f:d574:afa7:9568:7608)
2025-11-22 23:18:31 +0000fp(~Thunderbi@2001-14ba-6e24-3000--198.rev.dnainternet.fi) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-11-22 23:21:42 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-11-22 23:25:08 +0000dunj3(~dunj3@2a01:239:328:1600::1) (Quit: ZNC 1.9.1 - https://znc.in)
2025-11-22 23:25:51 +0000dunj3(~dunj3@h1765027.stratoserver.net)
2025-11-22 23:26:04 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2025-11-22 23:26:24 +0000karenw(~karenw@user/karenw) karenw
2025-11-22 23:29:59 +0000dunj3(~dunj3@h1765027.stratoserver.net) (Client Quit)
2025-11-22 23:31:08 +0000rekahsoft(~rekahsoft@70.51.99.245) rekahsoft
2025-11-22 23:31:18 +0000__monty__(~toonn@user/toonn) (Quit: leaving)
2025-11-22 23:35:23 +0000deptype(~deptype@2406:b400:3a:9d2f:d574:afa7:9568:7608) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-11-22 23:35:58 +0000deptype(~deptype@2406:b400:3a:9d2f:a810:75:233:1e39)
2025-11-22 23:37:10 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-11-22 23:42:00 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2025-11-22 23:43:36 +0000trickard(~trickard@cpe-87-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2025-11-22 23:43:50 +0000trickard_(~trickard@cpe-87-98-47-163.wireline.com.au)
2025-11-22 23:45:14 +0000Frostillicus(~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net)
2025-11-22 23:52:33 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-11-22 23:55:25 +0000deptype(~deptype@2406:b400:3a:9d2f:a810:75:233:1e39) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-11-22 23:55:49 +0000deptype(~deptype@2406:b400:3a:9d2f:e7a:c619:d9db:72ca)
2025-11-22 23:58:04 +0000tromp(~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:697a:bc7a:f580:408c) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)