| 2025-05-20 00:00:44 +0000 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
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| 2025-05-20 00:05:13 +0000 | Tuplanolla | (~Tuplanoll@91-159-69-59.elisa-laajakaista.fi) (Quit: Leaving.) |
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| 2025-05-20 00:14:23 +0000 | euleritian | (~euleritia@ip4d17f864.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) |
| 2025-05-20 00:16:37 +0000 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
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| 2025-05-20 00:34:40 +0000 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
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| 2025-05-20 00:48:05 +0000 | haritz | (~hrtz@user/haritz) (Quit: ZNC 1.8.2+deb3.1+deb12u1 - https://znc.in) |
| 2025-05-20 00:50:28 +0000 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
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| 2025-05-20 01:17:36 +0000 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-05-20 01:21:44 +0000 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-05-20 01:23:28 +0000 | yin | (~z@user/zero) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 2025-05-20 01:25:31 +0000 | <EvanR> | whoa https://github.com/aistrate/Articles/tree/master/Haskell |
| 2025-05-20 01:26:26 +0000 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
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| 2025-05-20 01:37:23 +0000 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-05-20 01:39:02 +0000 | yin | (~z@user/zero) zero |
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| 2025-05-20 01:41:30 +0000 | werneta | (~werneta@syn-071-083-160-242.res.spectrum.com) werneta |
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| 2025-05-20 01:53:10 +0000 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
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| 2025-05-20 02:35:54 +0000 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
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| 2025-05-20 03:32:17 +0000 | aforemny_ | (~aforemny@2001:9e8:6cc6:1600:7908:18da:5677:a8f7) aforemny |
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| 2025-05-20 03:38:04 +0000 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
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| 2025-05-20 03:40:44 +0000 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
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| 2025-05-20 03:56:50 +0000 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
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| 2025-05-20 03:58:26 +0000 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-05-20 03:59:14 +0000 | Square | (~Square4@user/square) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2025-05-20 04:01:32 +0000 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2025-05-20 04:01:38 +0000 | peterbecich | (~Thunderbi@syn-047-229-123-186.res.spectrum.com) peterbecich |
| 2025-05-20 04:05:50 +0000 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-05-20 04:08:05 +0000 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-05-20 04:08:26 +0000 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-05-20 04:10:50 +0000 | sus0 | (zero@user/zeromomentum) zeromomentum |
| 2025-05-20 04:11:07 +0000 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) |
| 2025-05-20 04:12:59 +0000 | <EvanR> | so in 7 `div` 3 you have the dividend and the divisor, operator and operands |
| 2025-05-20 04:13:22 +0000 | <EvanR> | in f x y z w, is there similar jargon to distinguish the f from the x y z and w |
| 2025-05-20 04:15:02 +0000 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-05-20 04:15:22 +0000 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-05-20 04:18:09 +0000 | j1n37 | (~j1n37@user/j1n37) j1n37 |
| 2025-05-20 04:19:37 +0000 | j1n37- | (~j1n37@user/j1n37) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 2025-05-20 04:21:30 +0000 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-05-20 04:22:01 +0000 | michalz | (~michalz@185.246.207.200) |
| 2025-05-20 04:23:07 +0000 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-05-20 04:23:29 +0000 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-05-20 04:24:34 +0000 | j1n37 | (~j1n37@user/j1n37) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2025-05-20 04:24:58 +0000 | <Leary> | I don't think there's anything wrong with 'function' and 'arguments', but I suppose you could say 'applicator' and 'applicands'. |
| 2025-05-20 04:25:49 +0000 | j1n37 | (~j1n37@user/j1n37) j1n37 |
| 2025-05-20 04:25:53 +0000 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 2025-05-20 04:30:23 +0000 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-05-20 04:30:51 +0000 | jmcantrell | (~weechat@user/jmcantrell) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2025-05-20 04:30:51 +0000 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-05-20 04:32:52 +0000 | jmcantrell | (~weechat@user/jmcantrell) jmcantrell |
| 2025-05-20 04:35:26 +0000 | <monochrom> | function and arguments |
| 2025-05-20 04:36:54 +0000 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-05-20 04:37:37 +0000 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-05-20 04:37:57 +0000 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-05-20 04:41:51 +0000 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2025-05-20 04:43:25 +0000 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-05-20 04:43:47 +0000 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-05-20 04:45:27 +0000 | takuan | (~takuan@d8D86B601.access.telenet.be) |
| 2025-05-20 04:47:11 +0000 | <EvanR> | well yeah f would evaluate to a function |
| 2025-05-20 04:47:18 +0000 | <EvanR> | but if it's a big expression |
| 2025-05-20 04:47:43 +0000 | <EvanR> | calling a big expression "the function" while "function" is used for 50 other bits and bobs ... xD |
| 2025-05-20 04:47:43 +0000 | <monochrom> | big-*ss function :) |
| 2025-05-20 04:48:02 +0000 | <EvanR> | it's like calling x `div` y, the number and the number |
| 2025-05-20 04:48:19 +0000 | <EvanR> | the number and the non-zero number |
| 2025-05-20 04:48:33 +0000 | <EvanR> | and x y z w might also be functions |
| 2025-05-20 04:48:55 +0000 | <EvanR> | applicator! dunno that sounds like I'm getting my makeup done |
| 2025-05-20 04:49:32 +0000 | <monochrom> | If you say generically "f x y" then I can only answer generically "function, 1st arg, 2nd arg". |
| 2025-05-20 04:50:03 +0000 | <monochrom> | "div x y" gets a more specific treatment because, only because, I know that you have specifically "div" not generically "f". |
| 2025-05-20 04:51:04 +0000 | <monochrom> | Tell me more about your big-*ss function and your big-*ss argument. Then maybe I can think up better wording. Information is conserve, I can't create information from nothing. |
| 2025-05-20 04:51:14 +0000 | <monochrom> | s/conserve/conserved/ |
| 2025-05-20 04:52:19 +0000 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-05-20 04:52:35 +0000 | <EvanR> | ok |
| 2025-05-20 04:52:41 +0000 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-05-20 04:52:41 +0000 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-05-20 04:52:46 +0000 | <EvanR> | App Expr Expr, |
| 2025-05-20 04:53:14 +0000 | <EvanR> | (a (b c) d) ((e f) g h) is of this form |
| 2025-05-20 04:53:30 +0000 | <EvanR> | I've been calling the two components l and r for lack of a better idea |
| 2025-05-20 04:53:48 +0000 | <EvanR> | one definitely should evaluate to "a function" while the other only might |
| 2025-05-20 04:53:52 +0000 | <monochrom> | Frankly I just write like "interp (App f e) = ..." |
| 2025-05-20 04:54:07 +0000 | <EvanR> | I was doing that until I needed f for other things in the same scope |
| 2025-05-20 04:54:22 +0000 | <EvanR> | and it's silly anyway since f is often another App |
| 2025-05-20 04:54:25 +0000 | <EvanR> | not a function |
| 2025-05-20 04:54:45 +0000 | <monochrom> | interp (App e1 e2) |
| 2025-05-20 04:55:01 +0000 | <EvanR> | yeah |
| 2025-05-20 04:55:28 +0000 | <monochrom> | I am not one of those Enterprise Java dev, I am not going to sweat over "oh so meaningful names" where it doesn't matter. |
| 2025-05-20 04:55:28 +0000 | <EvanR> | though to evaluate or compile App e1 e2, you don't treat them symmetrically |
| 2025-05-20 04:55:39 +0000 | <EvanR> | so if I'm writing about e1 and e2 they might have names |
| 2025-05-20 04:55:46 +0000 | <EvanR> | applicator and applicand it is |
| 2025-05-20 04:56:01 +0000 | Lord_of_Life | (~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 2025-05-20 04:56:18 +0000 | <monochrom> | functor, funcand |
| 2025-05-20 04:56:25 +0000 | Lord_of_Life | (~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915) Lord_of_Life |
| 2025-05-20 04:56:30 +0000 | <EvanR> | functcand |
| 2025-05-20 04:56:40 +0000 | <EvanR> | functee |
| 2025-05-20 04:57:04 +0000 | <monochrom> | I saw HOL4 saying "rator, rand", short for operator, operand. |
| 2025-05-20 04:57:16 +0000 | <EvanR> | that's pretty bad |
| 2025-05-20 04:57:43 +0000 | <monochrom> | Maybe alligator and egg? Recall that aligator game... :) |
| 2025-05-20 04:57:44 +0000 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) |
| 2025-05-20 04:57:55 +0000 | <EvanR> | yeah |
| 2025-05-20 04:58:08 +0000 | <EvanR> | maybe now that I understand lambda calculus I can go back and understand the alligator game |
| 2025-05-20 04:59:21 +0000 | harveypwca | (~harveypwc@2601:246:d080:f6e0:27d6:8cc7:eca9:c46c) (Quit: Leaving) |
| 2025-05-20 04:59:22 +0000 | <EvanR> | ok I'll reserve "now understanding LC" for after I understand oleg's lambda calculus section |
| 2025-05-20 05:01:40 +0000 | pabs3 | (~pabs3@user/pabs3) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2025-05-20 05:02:47 +0000 | <jackdk> | Since all functions take only one argument, the LHS of an App Expr Expr is a function if your term is well-typed |
| 2025-05-20 05:06:12 +0000 | flounders | (~flounders@2607:fb90:ee09:4f99:c6b8:4dd2:346a:a4b4) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) |
| 2025-05-20 05:06:43 +0000 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-05-20 05:07:30 +0000 | flounders | (~flounders@24.246.181.22) flounders |
| 2025-05-20 05:09:47 +0000 | <EvanR> | it often "is" itself an App Expr Expr, and so on in a long chain |
| 2025-05-20 05:10:00 +0000 | jason_davidson | (~jason.dav@user/jason-davidson:57402) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) |
| 2025-05-20 05:10:24 +0000 | <EvanR> | no use treating it as a function it's actually a function, if anything is |
| 2025-05-20 05:10:32 +0000 | <EvanR> | is lambda even a function? I'm not sure anymore |
| 2025-05-20 05:10:51 +0000 | <EvanR> | s/function it's/function until it's/ |
| 2025-05-20 05:11:20 +0000 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
| 2025-05-20 05:11:51 +0000 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-05-20 05:12:14 +0000 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-05-20 05:13:28 +0000 | <EvanR> | another counter example is yeah f x is well typed, and yeah f "is" a thunk. So you force it because it "is" a function, then f diverges because haskell |
| 2025-05-20 05:14:43 +0000 | califax | (~califax@user/califx) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-05-20 05:16:17 +0000 | <monochrom> | If I have "div (div x y) (div a b)", do you have trouble calling "div a b" divisor? |
| 2025-05-20 05:16:23 +0000 | califax | (~califax@user/califx) califx |
| 2025-05-20 05:17:29 +0000 | <monochrom> | "div a b" is itself another div, and god knows how many long chains and deep trees are hiding behind "a" and "b", too. |
| 2025-05-20 05:18:03 +0000 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-05-20 05:18:13 +0000 | <monochrom> | By that reasoning, you will reject even "divisor". Paradoxically, you accepted it. |
| 2025-05-20 05:18:23 +0000 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-05-20 05:18:53 +0000 | <EvanR> | yeah b is divisor in div a b and div a b is divisor in div (div x y) (div a b) |
| 2025-05-20 05:19:11 +0000 | <EvanR> | not "the number" |
| 2025-05-20 05:20:10 +0000 | <EvanR> | div is standing in for the fancy division sign here too, not to confuse div a b with generic f a b |
| 2025-05-20 05:21:29 +0000 | <monochrom> | Div dividend divisor :: App function argument |
| 2025-05-20 05:21:29 +0000 | <EvanR> | operator and operand might have worked if it wasn't for APL making a huge mess of that! |
| 2025-05-20 05:21:43 +0000 | <monochrom> | I did not advocate "App number number". |
| 2025-05-20 05:22:01 +0000 | <monochrom> | I didn't even advocate "App term moarterm" |
| 2025-05-20 05:22:05 +0000 | <EvanR> | "the function" and ... the non function? |
| 2025-05-20 05:22:17 +0000 | <EvanR> | could evaluate to a function, or not |
| 2025-05-20 05:22:27 +0000 | <monochrom> | I didn't commit to "the argument is not a function". |
| 2025-05-20 05:22:32 +0000 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-05-20 05:22:50 +0000 | <EvanR> | in some languages you can apply non functions! |
| 2025-05-20 05:23:01 +0000 | <monochrom> | Do you accept recursion? Let recursion worry about what's inside argument. |
| 2025-05-20 05:23:24 +0000 | <EvanR> | the recursion in my case has usually been taking care of what's inside "function" (left component) |
| 2025-05-20 05:23:38 +0000 | <EvanR> | to flatten out the app chain |
| 2025-05-20 05:25:34 +0000 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-05-20 05:25:59 +0000 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-05-20 05:26:32 +0000 | <monochrom> | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quotition_and_partition for more hair-splitting |
| 2025-05-20 05:27:39 +0000 | <monochrom> | oh and don't get me started about that time a Taiwanese teacher posted on Youtube very dogmatic distinction between 4*5 and 5*4. |
| 2025-05-20 05:27:45 +0000 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) |
| 2025-05-20 05:28:19 +0000 | <EvanR> | a dogmatic distinction you need to use agda |
| 2025-05-20 05:28:40 +0000 | DragonMaus | (~dragonmau@user/dragonmaus) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2025-05-20 05:28:45 +0000 | DrachenMaus | (~dragonmau@user/dragonmaus) DragonMaus |
| 2025-05-20 05:29:12 +0000 | <EvanR> | that quotitive vs partitive is exactly that |
| 2025-05-20 05:30:02 +0000 | pabs3 | (~pabs3@user/pabs3) pabs3 |
| 2025-05-20 05:30:02 +0000 | <EvanR> | in graphical linear algebra 0*5 and 5*0 is distinct (array dimensions) |
| 2025-05-20 05:32:55 +0000 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-05-20 05:33:17 +0000 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
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| 2025-05-20 05:41:23 +0000 | jmorris | (uid604645@id-604645.hampstead.irccloud.com) jmorris |
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| 2025-05-20 06:29:49 +0000 | dontdieych2_ | (~quassel@user/dontdieych2) dontdieych2 |
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| 2025-05-20 06:38:46 +0000 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-05-20 06:39:12 +0000 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
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| 2025-05-20 06:44:54 +0000 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
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| 2025-05-20 06:46:09 +0000 | <ski> | EvanR,Leary : Scheme says "operator" and "operand" (and "procedure combination") |
| 2025-05-20 06:46:10 +0000 | j1n37 | (~j1n37@user/j1n37) j1n37 |
| 2025-05-20 06:46:20 +0000 | <ski> | interp (App e e0) = ..e..e0.. |
| 2025-05-20 06:46:49 +0000 | ski | . o O ( "alligand" ) |
| 2025-05-20 06:47:25 +0000 | j1n37- | (~j1n37@user/j1n37) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2025-05-20 06:48:47 +0000 | <ski> | monochrom : yes. quotition vs. partition is relevant for factor groups (it's not really a "quotient"), e.g. |
| 2025-05-20 06:49:59 +0000 | dontdieych2 | (~quassel@user/dontdieych2) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 2025-05-20 06:50:16 +0000 | Sgeo | (~Sgeo@user/sgeo) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2025-05-20 06:50:39 +0000 | dontdieych2 | (~quassel@user/dontdieych2) dontdieych2 |
| 2025-05-20 06:50:55 +0000 | <ski> | similarly, the two kinds of subtraction (diminishing vs. comparing) are relevant for vectors and points (in affine spaces). or torsors, more generally |
| 2025-05-20 06:51:02 +0000 | ski | . o O ( "Torsors Made Easy" by John Baez in 2009-12-27 at <https://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/torsors.html> ) |
| 2025-05-20 06:52:05 +0000 | sord937 | (~sord937@gateway/tor-sasl/sord937) sord937 |
| 2025-05-20 06:53:00 +0000 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-05-20 06:53:21 +0000 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-05-20 06:54:08 +0000 | jason2 | (~jason.dav@2800:bf0:177:7c0:70ed:b503:23d5:6728) |
| 2025-05-20 06:54:51 +0000 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-05-20 06:55:58 +0000 | _d0t | (~{-d0t-}@user/-d0t-/x-7915216) {-d0t-} |
| 2025-05-20 06:57:44 +0000 | Frostillicus | (~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) |
| 2025-05-20 06:58:18 +0000 | lortabac | (~lortabac@2a01:e0a:541:b8f0:55ab:e185:7f81:54a4) lortabac |
| 2025-05-20 06:59:00 +0000 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
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| 2025-05-20 07:00:00 +0000 | caconym7 | (~caconym@user/caconym) (Quit: bye) |
| 2025-05-20 07:00:15 +0000 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
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| 2025-05-20 07:09:05 +0000 | nschoe- | (~nschoe@82-65-202-30.subs.proxad.net) (Quit: ZNC 1.8.2 - https://znc.in) |
| 2025-05-20 07:09:22 +0000 | Maxdamantus | (~Maxdamant@user/maxdamantus) Maxdamantus |
| 2025-05-20 07:09:22 +0000 | nschoe | (~nschoe@2a01:e0a:8e:a190:fcbd:4c31:903a:fb6c) nschoe |
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| 2025-05-20 07:13:44 +0000 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
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| 2025-05-20 07:15:58 +0000 | _d0t | (~{-d0t-}@user/-d0t-/x-7915216) {-d0t-} |
| 2025-05-20 07:17:08 +0000 | tromp | (~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:e83d:1e4b:bd0c:14ee) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) |
| 2025-05-20 07:17:33 +0000 | tromp | (~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:e83d:1e4b:bd0c:14ee) |
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| 2025-05-20 07:31:52 +0000 | euleritian | (~euleritia@dynamic-176-006-140-197.176.6.pool.telefonica.de) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2025-05-20 07:32:14 +0000 | euleritian | (~euleritia@ip4d17f864.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) |
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| 2025-05-20 07:33:30 +0000 | j1n37- | (~j1n37@user/j1n37) j1n37 |
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| 2025-05-20 07:46:37 +0000 | merijn | (~merijn@77.242.116.146) merijn |
| 2025-05-20 07:50:06 +0000 | jmcantrell | (~weechat@user/jmcantrell) (Quit: WeeChat 4.6.3) |
| 2025-05-20 07:50:31 +0000 | dontdieych2_ | (~quassel@user/dontdieych2) dontdieych2 |
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| 2025-05-20 07:55:16 +0000 | _d0t | (~{-d0t-}@user/-d0t-/x-7915216) {-d0t-} |
| 2025-05-20 07:55:55 +0000 | lxsameer | (~lxsameer@Serene/lxsameer) lxsameer |
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| 2025-05-20 08:11:44 +0000 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-05-20 08:13:45 +0000 | Frostillicus | (~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2025-05-20 08:14:52 +0000 | _d0t | (~{-d0t-}@user/-d0t-/x-7915216) {-d0t-} |
| 2025-05-20 08:16:37 +0000 | Digit | (~user@user/digit) Digit |
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| 2025-05-20 08:20:20 +0000 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
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| 2025-05-20 08:32:17 +0000 | <carbolymer> | what's the best alternative class to `IsString` , but with a conversion function reporting an error e.g. `String -> Either Text a`? |
| 2025-05-20 08:32:25 +0000 | <carbolymer> | I guess a parser would be best suited I think |
| 2025-05-20 08:32:43 +0000 | chele | (~chele@user/chele) chele |
| 2025-05-20 08:33:13 +0000 | <tomsmeding> | (related but not the same: https://hackage.haskell.org/package/validated-literals ) |
| 2025-05-20 08:33:22 +0000 | <tomsmeding> | I don't think such a class exists in common use |
| 2025-05-20 08:34:33 +0000 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-05-20 08:34:57 +0000 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-05-20 08:35:36 +0000 | <carbolymer> | looks cool, but I don't want to use it just for constants |
| 2025-05-20 08:36:00 +0000 | <tomsmeding> | no it's not what you need, but I thought it was related and interesting |
| 2025-05-20 08:36:08 +0000 | <carbolymer> | ;] |
| 2025-05-20 08:40:24 +0000 | merijn | (~merijn@77.242.116.146) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2025-05-20 08:42:54 +0000 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-05-20 08:43:14 +0000 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-05-20 08:47:08 +0000 | merijn | (~merijn@77.242.116.146) merijn |
| 2025-05-20 08:47:52 +0000 | dontdieych2_ | (~quassel@user/dontdieych2) dontdieych2 |
| 2025-05-20 08:47:52 +0000 | dontdieych2 | (~quassel@user/dontdieych2) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) |
| 2025-05-20 08:49:04 +0000 | ft | (~ft@p3e9bc106.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Quit: leaving) |
| 2025-05-20 08:52:24 +0000 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-05-20 08:52:45 +0000 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-05-20 08:55:00 +0000 | <bwe> | sm, [exa], tomsmeding, EvanR: benchmarking scraping: GC after file load but before processing, measuring memory consumption outside of Criterion (-15% memory) added +RTS -s variant (confirms 130 MiB memory consumed), cross-checked with gnu time: https://github.com/benjaminweb/scraper-experiment/tree/main https://paste.tomsmeding.com/dS1MdYdG |
| 2025-05-20 08:55:09 +0000 | jason2 | (~jason.dav@2800:bf0:177:7c0:70ed:b503:23d5:6728) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2025-05-20 08:59:42 +0000 | <bwe> | sm: scalpel is using tagsoup internally, there's also https://github.com/ndmitchell/tagsoup/issues/83. How is the rather compact implementation of fast-tagsoup https://github.com/vshabanov/fast-tagsoup/blob/master/Text/HTML/TagSoup/Fast.hs realising this 10-20x speed gain compared to TagSoup? Is it just by switching to ByteStrings or by generously sprinkling in some "!" (BangPatterns) to force early evaluation? |
| 2025-05-20 09:01:51 +0000 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-05-20 09:02:12 +0000 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-05-20 09:05:53 +0000 | merijn | (~merijn@77.242.116.146) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 2025-05-20 09:07:12 +0000 | jason2 | (~jason.dav@2800:bf0:177:7c0:70ed:b503:23d5:6728) |
| 2025-05-20 09:08:18 +0000 | Digitteknohippie | (~user@user/digit) Digit |
| 2025-05-20 09:09:31 +0000 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
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| 2025-05-20 09:10:06 +0000 | __monty__ | (~toonn@user/toonn) toonn |
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| 2025-05-20 09:20:25 +0000 | merijn | (~merijn@77.242.116.146) merijn |
| 2025-05-20 09:21:04 +0000 | Frostillicus | (~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) |
| 2025-05-20 09:21:12 +0000 | rvalue | (~rvalue@user/rvalue) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2025-05-20 09:21:43 +0000 | rvalue | (~rvalue@user/rvalue) rvalue |
| 2025-05-20 09:21:47 +0000 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
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| 2025-05-20 09:22:31 +0000 | j1n37 | (~j1n37@user/j1n37) j1n37 |
| 2025-05-20 09:22:42 +0000 | j1n37- | (~j1n37@user/j1n37) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) |
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| 2025-05-20 09:29:23 +0000 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-05-20 09:29:23 +0000 | Digitteknohippie | Digit |
| 2025-05-20 09:29:46 +0000 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-05-20 09:33:35 +0000 | chiselfu1e | (~chiselfus@user/chiselfuse) chiselfuse |
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| 2025-05-20 09:39:11 +0000 | euleritian | (~euleritia@ip4d17f864.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
| 2025-05-20 09:41:07 +0000 | wickedjargon | (~user@2001:569:fc3c:d000:49fd:4f0f:5c90:505) wickedjargon |
| 2025-05-20 09:42:45 +0000 | jason2 | (~jason.dav@2800:bf0:177:7c0:70ed:b503:23d5:6728) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
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| 2025-05-20 09:49:56 +0000 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
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| 2025-05-20 09:50:39 +0000 | j1n37- | (~j1n37@user/j1n37) j1n37 |
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| 2025-05-20 10:02:34 +0000 | JuanDaugherty | (~juan@user/JuanDaugherty) JuanDaugherty |
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| 2025-05-20 10:13:19 +0000 | biberu | (~biberu@user/biberu) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2025-05-20 10:14:43 +0000 | jason2 | (~jason.dav@2800:bf0:177:7c0:70ed:b503:23d5:6728) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) |
| 2025-05-20 10:15:21 +0000 | biberu | (~biberu@user/biberu) biberu |
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| 2025-05-20 10:19:21 +0000 | wootehfoot | (~wootehfoo@user/wootehfoot) wootehfoot |
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| 2025-05-20 10:21:07 +0000 | _d0t | (~{-d0t-}@user/-d0t-/x-7915216) {-d0t-} |
| 2025-05-20 10:22:29 +0000 | lortabac | (~lortabac@2a01:e0a:541:b8f0:55ab:e185:7f81:54a4) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2025-05-20 10:23:22 +0000 | sand-witch | (~m-mzmz6l@38.242.236.220) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-05-20 10:25:05 +0000 | Frostillicus | (~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) |
| 2025-05-20 10:26:07 +0000 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
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| 2025-05-20 10:39:58 +0000 | merijn | (~merijn@77.242.116.146) merijn |
| 2025-05-20 10:40:13 +0000 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-05-20 10:41:54 +0000 | jason2 | (~jason.dav@2800:bf0:177:7c0:70ed:b503:23d5:6728) |
| 2025-05-20 10:43:45 +0000 | euouae | (~euouae@user/euouae) euouae |
| 2025-05-20 10:44:16 +0000 | <euouae> | Hello suppose you're given a long string "s" and a list of files "fs" and you have to check if the files, when concatenated, start with "s" |
| 2025-05-20 10:44:27 +0000 | _d0t | (~{-d0t-}@user/-d0t-/x-7915216) {-d0t-} |
| 2025-05-20 10:44:59 +0000 | <euouae> | I'm not looking for the /most efficient/ solution, but would a relatively efficient solution be: map the files to lazy strings, use lens to concatenate into 1 string "r", and just check if r begins with s? |
| 2025-05-20 10:46:14 +0000 | jason2 | (~jason.dav@2800:bf0:177:7c0:70ed:b503:23d5:6728) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 2025-05-20 10:48:23 +0000 | <euouae> | (I mean the file contents concatenated start with s, not the file names) |
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| 2025-05-20 11:21:22 +0000 | xff0x | (~xff0x@om126236151042.32.openmobile.ne.jp) |
| 2025-05-20 11:22:21 +0000 | merijn | (~merijn@77.242.116.146) merijn |
| 2025-05-20 11:26:22 +0000 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-05-20 11:26:43 +0000 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-05-20 11:27:57 +0000 | JuanDaugherty | (~juan@user/JuanDaugherty) (Quit: praxis.meansofproduction.biz (juan@acm.org)) |
| 2025-05-20 11:28:18 +0000 | <__monty__> | euouae: I'd first check whether ```s `isPrefixOf` (head fs)```, then start dropping each file's contents off the string if they isPrefixOf. |
| 2025-05-20 11:29:31 +0000 | <hellwolf> | How do you tell the difference between skill issues vs. Haskell is an unproductive language? |
| 2025-05-20 11:29:41 +0000 | <__monty__> | Well almost, probably just try chopping fs off the front of the string until they're not isPrefixOf, then check that s `isPrefixOf` whatever file you're on. |
| 2025-05-20 11:30:33 +0000 | <euouae> | __monty__: right but I'm not asking for what you'd do ;P I'm asking if my solution is feasible and/or decent |
| 2025-05-20 11:30:33 +0000 | <__monty__> | hellwolf: You look at Edwark Kmett's productivity and then go hide in the closet and cry at your skill issues. |
| 2025-05-20 11:31:15 +0000 | <hellwolf> | I like the mindset of looking upwards. |
| 2025-05-20 11:31:19 +0000 | <__monty__> | euouae: Ah, that *is* a different question, apologies for my reading skill issues : ) |
| 2025-05-20 11:31:43 +0000 | <euouae> | __monty__: you have to keep in mind that I'm giving a simplified example, so you can't feasibly change it (it will no longer correspond to the more complex thing I'm doing) |
| 2025-05-20 11:32:50 +0000 | _d0t | (~{-d0t-}@user/-d0t-/x-7915216) {-d0t-} |
| 2025-05-20 11:33:37 +0000 | <__monty__> | Yes, it's always an XY problem. |
| 2025-05-20 11:34:11 +0000 | <euouae> | If you want to hear the XY thing, I'm writing a clone of GNU m4 in Haskell |
| 2025-05-20 11:34:24 +0000 | <euouae> | there's large tokens and m4 can have multiple streams that behave as one |
| 2025-05-20 11:35:01 +0000 | <[exa]> | bwe: btw try to squeeze the gc interval there. The 130MB you're measuring might again be "benevolent amount of memory that RTS allows itself to copy-on-write before triggering the GC", with only a small portion of that being non-GCable at any point of time |
| 2025-05-20 11:35:13 +0000 | <euouae> | I can do what you suggest, but I need more than "isPrefixOf", e.g. I might need to find needles, etc |
| 2025-05-20 11:35:55 +0000 | nacation | (~m-3l4s76@user/nacation) nacation |
| 2025-05-20 11:36:04 +0000 | <[exa]> | bwe: btw see the note here https://hackage.haskell.org/package/base-4.21.0.0/docs/System-Mem.html#v:enableAllocationLimit |
| 2025-05-20 11:36:25 +0000 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-05-20 11:36:46 +0000 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
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| 2025-05-20 11:42:29 +0000 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2025-05-20 11:42:53 +0000 | Vq | (~vq@81-226-38-201-no600.tbcn.telia.com) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) |
| 2025-05-20 11:42:54 +0000 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-05-20 11:45:19 +0000 | jason2 | (~jason.dav@2800:bf0:177:7c0:70ed:b503:23d5:6728) |
| 2025-05-20 11:46:48 +0000 | <merijn> | I mean, depending on what you're doing 130 MiB does not seem unreasonable |
| 2025-05-20 11:48:51 +0000 | <merijn> | __monty__: isPrefixOf *hiss* |
| 2025-05-20 11:49:26 +0000 | <merijn> | I can think of very, very few situations where isPrefixOf should be used that wouldn't be better served by stripPrefix and this situation does not seem one of them :) |
| 2025-05-20 11:49:49 +0000 | <euouae> | isPrefixOf is an example, there's various operations I'd be using |
| 2025-05-20 11:50:06 +0000 | <euouae> | you'd have to curate each with your specific better algorithms (e.g. here isPrefixOf => just use stripPrefix) and so on |
| 2025-05-20 11:50:17 +0000 | <euouae> | I'd rather just treat the whole thing as one lazy string |
| 2025-05-20 11:50:28 +0000 | <euouae> | I'm just asking if it is feasible but at this point I'm testing it out myself to see |
| 2025-05-20 11:52:09 +0000 | j1n37 | (~j1n37@user/j1n37) j1n37 |
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| 2025-05-20 11:54:26 +0000 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-05-20 11:54:48 +0000 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-05-20 11:55:10 +0000 | Frostillicus | (~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) |
| 2025-05-20 11:55:30 +0000 | kuribas | (~user@ip-188-118-57-242.reverse.destiny.be) |
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| 2025-05-20 12:02:33 +0000 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-05-20 12:02:56 +0000 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-05-20 12:05:07 +0000 | rvalue- | (~rvalue@user/rvalue) rvalue |
| 2025-05-20 12:06:05 +0000 | <euouae> | Hm, I just checked it, it runs pretty smoothly. Cool, thank you. |
| 2025-05-20 12:06:58 +0000 | rvalue | (~rvalue@user/rvalue) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 2025-05-20 12:07:00 +0000 | <euouae> | Another thing that bothers me now is that when I use emacs haskell-mode and I have dependencies (e.g. lens) in my app/Main.hs it gives me trouble when I start a GHCi session with C-c C-l: "lens not imported" or crap like that, and offers to add it to the .cabal file. I think it's not detecting it in MyLib.hs |
| 2025-05-20 12:07:27 +0000 | <euouae> | How can I work around this issue? I don't understand how to tell the GHCi session to focus on app/Main.hs instead of src/MyLib.hs |
| 2025-05-20 12:08:40 +0000 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-05-20 12:09:02 +0000 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-05-20 12:11:46 +0000 | rvalue- | rvalue |
| 2025-05-20 12:12:20 +0000 | Frostillicus | (~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) |
| 2025-05-20 12:12:49 +0000 | <hellwolf> | (lsp-haskell-session-loading "multipleComponents") |
| 2025-05-20 12:12:51 +0000 | <hellwolf> | have you set this |
| 2025-05-20 12:13:09 +0000 | <hellwolf> | also, for a cabal project, you should also set this: |
| 2025-05-20 12:13:10 +0000 | <hellwolf> | multi-repl: true |
| 2025-05-20 12:13:18 +0000 | <euouae> | Where is that latter part set? |
| 2025-05-20 12:13:27 +0000 | <hellwolf> | cabal.project |
| 2025-05-20 12:13:34 +0000 | <euouae> | hm. that's weird |
| 2025-05-20 12:13:47 +0000 | euouae | is trying to remmber if cabal has a .user component |
| 2025-05-20 12:14:11 +0000 | <hellwolf> | what's that? |
| 2025-05-20 12:14:25 +0000 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-05-20 12:14:30 +0000 | califax | (~califax@user/califx) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-05-20 12:14:44 +0000 | <euouae> | user configurations on top of project configurations |
| 2025-05-20 12:14:50 +0000 | <euouae> | some build systems support it |
| 2025-05-20 12:14:50 +0000 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-05-20 12:16:34 +0000 | <euouae> | I'm seeing that `cabal user-config update` modified my ~/.cabal/config to be different. in particular it added multi-repl: true |
| 2025-05-20 12:17:01 +0000 | <yushyin> | cabal.project.local, maybe? |
| 2025-05-20 12:17:04 +0000 | Frostillicus | (~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 2025-05-20 12:17:19 +0000 | califax | (~califax@user/califx) califx |
| 2025-05-20 12:17:30 +0000 | jespada | (~jespada@r186-48-58-202.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy) (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) |
| 2025-05-20 12:19:01 +0000 | _d0t | (~{-d0t-}@user/-d0t-/x-7915216) {-d0t-} |
| 2025-05-20 12:19:24 +0000 | <euouae> | I modified lsp-haskell-session-loading and added multi-repl: true in my cabal user config |
| 2025-05-20 12:19:30 +0000 | <euouae> | what more do I need to do it's still not working smh |
| 2025-05-20 12:20:06 +0000 | <euouae> | I restarted the lsp |
| 2025-05-20 12:20:13 +0000 | <euouae> | nothing works. dang |
| 2025-05-20 12:21:04 +0000 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-05-20 12:21:27 +0000 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-05-20 12:22:02 +0000 | <euouae> | and you're right (thanks) yushyin that's what I meatn |
| 2025-05-20 12:22:14 +0000 | <yushyin> | happy to help |
| 2025-05-20 12:23:00 +0000 | <euouae> | okay forget about emacs. I can't get it to work in the `cabal repl` either |
| 2025-05-20 12:23:07 +0000 | <euouae> | E.g. `import Control.Lens` keeps telling me it's part of a hdiden package |
| 2025-05-20 12:23:43 +0000 | <euouae> | it only works if I do `cabal repl app/Main.hs` |
| 2025-05-20 12:24:55 +0000 | jason2 | (~jason.dav@2800:bf0:177:7c0:70ed:b503:23d5:6728) |
| 2025-05-20 12:25:38 +0000 | <hellwolf> | ah, you need to do some trick |
| 2025-05-20 12:25:41 +0000 | <hellwolf> | with cabal repl |
| 2025-05-20 12:26:05 +0000 | <hellwolf> | cabal repl --build-depends lens |
| 2025-05-20 12:26:21 +0000 | <hellwolf> | it's literally in the last few lines in cabal --help :p |
| 2025-05-20 12:26:43 +0000 | <hellwolf> | you can also do that in a repl environment |
| 2025-05-20 12:27:01 +0000 | <hellwolf> | ::set -package lens |
| 2025-05-20 12:27:20 +0000 | <hellwolf> | you may also setup a startup ghci script, so that emacs probably can work too |
| 2025-05-20 12:27:58 +0000 | <euouae> | the `cabal repl --build-depends lens` says it will add it to the default component |
| 2025-05-20 12:28:19 +0000 | <euouae> | I have already manually added lens to the execuable component |
| 2025-05-20 12:28:30 +0000 | euleritian | (~euleritia@dynamic-176-006-140-197.176.6.pool.telefonica.de) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 2025-05-20 12:28:41 +0000 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-05-20 12:28:45 +0000 | jespada | (~jespada@r186-48-58-202.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy) jespada |
| 2025-05-20 12:28:51 +0000 | <hellwolf> | so, did it work? |
| 2025-05-20 12:28:54 +0000 | euleritian | (~euleritia@dynamic-176-000-061-076.176.0.pool.telefonica.de) |
| 2025-05-20 12:29:02 +0000 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-05-20 12:29:32 +0000 | califax | (~califax@user/califx) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-05-20 12:29:52 +0000 | <euouae> | First of all, what does it mean `cabal repl cname` for the component named cname? |
| 2025-05-20 12:29:56 +0000 | <euouae> | Where's the component names specified in the cabla file? |
| 2025-05-20 12:30:10 +0000 | <euouae> | I see `library` by itself and `executable m4hs`. If I try `cabal repl m4hs`, I can't import lens. |
| 2025-05-20 12:31:22 +0000 | califax | (~califax@user/califx) califx |
| 2025-05-20 12:32:15 +0000 | <tomsmeding> | euouae: try `cabal repl exe:m4hs` |
| 2025-05-20 12:32:37 +0000 | <tomsmeding> | the component name is just what you expect, but if your package is also called m4hs, then you have two components both called m4hs |
| 2025-05-20 12:32:37 +0000 | <hellwolf> | cabal repl --build-depends lens exe:m4hs |
| 2025-05-20 12:32:42 +0000 | <euouae> | nice, that worked |
| 2025-05-20 12:32:53 +0000 | <euouae> | I don't need the --build-depends because it already is added |
| 2025-05-20 12:32:57 +0000 | califax | (~califax@user/califx) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-05-20 12:33:07 +0000 | <euouae> | okay that worked fine, but now why does Emacs not do this with ~C-c C-l`? |
| 2025-05-20 12:33:16 +0000 | <tomsmeding> | euouae: `:show imports` |
| 2025-05-20 12:33:22 +0000 | <euouae> | that's `haskell-process-load-file' |
| 2025-05-20 12:33:27 +0000 | <hellwolf> | haskell-process-type: cabal-repl |
| 2025-05-20 12:33:27 +0000 | <hellwolf> | haskell-process-load-or-reload-prompt: t |
| 2025-05-20 12:33:30 +0000 | <tomsmeding> | also `:set prompt "%s> "` |
| 2025-05-20 12:33:37 +0000 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-05-20 12:33:58 +0000 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-05-20 12:33:59 +0000 | tomsmeding | is of the opinion that switching to ghci> as the prompt has been a net detriment to the majority of haskell users because ghci module scope is tremendously confusing |
| 2025-05-20 12:34:47 +0000 | segfaultfizzbuzz | (~segfaultf@23-93-74-222.fiber.dynamic.sonic.net) segfaultfizzbuzz |
| 2025-05-20 12:34:53 +0000 | <euouae> | hellwolf: for `haskell-process-type' I have auto which should pick up the cabal.project. |
| 2025-05-20 12:35:03 +0000 | <tomsmeding> | and having multiple components, with the risk of ghci being in a different component than you expect, makes this even more confusing |
| 2025-05-20 12:35:41 +0000 | <hellwolf> | yea, loading exec component is probably beyond haskell-mode can understand. it's too old. |
| 2025-05-20 12:36:03 +0000 | <tomsmeding> | by default, `cabal repl` probably opens the library component, not the executable component |
| 2025-05-20 12:36:14 +0000 | <tomsmeding> | if you `:show imports` you can observe that |
| 2025-05-20 12:36:48 +0000 | <euouae> | you're right |
| 2025-05-20 12:37:07 +0000 | <tomsmeding> | hellwolf: `:set -package lens` is almost never the right approach :p |
| 2025-05-20 12:37:07 +0000 | <euouae> | hellwolf: oh okay, so haskell-mode just doesn't know what to do |
| 2025-05-20 12:37:32 +0000 | <tomsmeding> | at least not if you're not yet exactly sure what ghci's scope is in the first place |
| 2025-05-20 12:38:36 +0000 | <euouae> | I figured it out |
| 2025-05-20 12:38:56 +0000 | <euouae> | I need to use 'M-x haskell-session-change-target' and choose exe:4mhs |
| 2025-05-20 12:38:58 +0000 | <euouae> | exe:m4hs |
| 2025-05-20 12:39:09 +0000 | <hellwolf> | amazing |
| 2025-05-20 12:39:43 +0000 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-05-20 12:40:03 +0000 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-05-20 12:40:28 +0000 | <[exa]> | is there some kind of lensism that would allow me to write something like "zip" of 2 lenses? such as: |
| 2025-05-20 12:41:12 +0000 | <[exa]> | obj ^. myItems . deep . very . deep . lensyZipWith (+) (deeper.value.a) (other.path.to.value.b) |
| 2025-05-20 12:42:18 +0000 | <[exa]> | I could do with say `to (\x -> (x ^. bla.bla) + (x ^. foo.bar))` but that is .... insufficiently satisfying |
| 2025-05-20 12:42:43 +0000 | califax | (~califax@user/califx) califx |
| 2025-05-20 12:43:26 +0000 | <euouae> | alongside? |
| 2025-05-20 12:43:31 +0000 | <euouae> | https://hackage-content.haskell.org/package/lens-5.3.4/docs/Control-Lens-Lens.html#v:alongside |
| 2025-05-20 12:44:58 +0000 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-05-20 12:45:25 +0000 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-05-20 12:46:23 +0000 | <hellwolf> | 05-20 15:37 <tomsmeding> hellwolf: `:set -package lens` is almost never the right approach :p |
| 2025-05-20 12:46:24 +0000 | <hellwolf> | Oh? Does cabal repl always expose the dependencies? |
| 2025-05-20 12:48:21 +0000 | notzmv | (~daniel@user/notzmv) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 2025-05-20 12:48:43 +0000 | <euouae> | Okay, thank you everyone :) appreciate it |
| 2025-05-20 12:48:47 +0000 | euouae | (~euouae@user/euouae) () |
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| 2025-05-20 12:51:20 +0000 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
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| 2025-05-20 12:58:18 +0000 | califax | (~califax@user/califx) califx |
| 2025-05-20 12:58:35 +0000 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-05-20 12:59:02 +0000 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-05-20 13:01:38 +0000 | <tomsmeding> | hellwolf: cabal repl opens a ghci in the context of a particular component, with all the build-depends of that component in scope |
| 2025-05-20 13:01:55 +0000 | <tomsmeding> | euouae was just in the wrong component |
| 2025-05-20 13:02:24 +0000 | <tomsmeding> | if you really need a package in your repl that is not in the build-depends list for the component you want the repl to be in, then yes you can manually try to add it |
| 2025-05-20 13:02:45 +0000 | <tomsmeding> | but this is quite rare |
| 2025-05-20 13:04:23 +0000 | califax | (~califax@user/califx) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-05-20 13:06:16 +0000 | califax | (~califax@user/califx) califx |
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| 2025-05-20 13:10:25 +0000 | califax | (~califax@user/califx) califx |
| 2025-05-20 13:11:19 +0000 | biberu | (~biberu@user/biberu) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 2025-05-20 13:14:06 +0000 | jespada | (~jespada@r186-48-58-202.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
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| 2025-05-20 13:17:23 +0000 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-05-20 13:17:28 +0000 | jespada | (~jespada@r190-133-13-145.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy) jespada |
| 2025-05-20 13:18:32 +0000 | califax | (~califax@user/califx) califx |
| 2025-05-20 13:23:33 +0000 | <hellwolf> | i see. |
| 2025-05-20 13:24:05 +0000 | califax | (~califax@user/califx) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-05-20 13:24:45 +0000 | <[exa]> | euouae: oh that's it, thanks! |
| 2025-05-20 13:25:02 +0000 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-05-20 13:25:23 +0000 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-05-20 13:25:34 +0000 | califax | (~califax@user/califx) califx |
| 2025-05-20 13:27:59 +0000 | <[exa]> | well, almost, I see that what I want can't even be a lens (what would one do with 2 different updates) |
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| 2025-05-20 13:47:08 +0000 | internatetional | (~nate@2001:448a:20a3:c2e5:25:514a:e62a:e326) internatetional |
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| 2025-05-20 13:57:20 +0000 | ttybitnik | (~ttybitnik@user/wolper) ttybitnik |
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| 2025-05-20 14:03:33 +0000 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-05-20 14:06:52 +0000 | Square | (~Square4@user/square) Square |
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| 2025-05-20 14:09:33 +0000 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-05-20 14:19:10 +0000 | <lxsameer> | hey folks, I'm trying to figure out a function like `.>` in this example to compose many instances of X in an array. do you have any idea how to do it? https://dpaste.com/B9NYJDA9Q |
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| 2025-05-20 14:49:10 +0000 | merijn | (~merijn@77.242.116.146) merijn |
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| 2025-05-20 15:34:43 +0000 | <hellwolf> | is there any way to make MapList injective? |
| 2025-05-20 15:34:44 +0000 | <hellwolf> | type family MapList (f :: Type -> Type) (xs :: [Type]) :: [Type] where |
| 2025-05-20 15:36:18 +0000 | euleritian | (~euleritia@dynamic-176-000-061-076.176.0.pool.telefonica.de) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
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| 2025-05-20 15:50:15 +0000 | <tomsmeding> | hellwolf: https://play.haskell.org/saved/ZnA8EB9E works for me https://play.haskell.org/saved/ZnA8EB9E |
| 2025-05-20 15:50:25 +0000 | visilii | (~visilii@213.24.134.172) |
| 2025-05-20 15:51:18 +0000 | <tomsmeding> | oh sorry for the double paste lol |
| 2025-05-20 15:51:24 +0000 | Unicorn_Princess | (~Unicorn_P@user/Unicorn-Princess/x-3540542) Unicorn_Princess |
| 2025-05-20 15:51:50 +0000 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-05-20 15:52:13 +0000 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-05-20 15:52:45 +0000 | <hellwolf> | oh wow, I can use UndecidableInstances ? |
| 2025-05-20 15:53:06 +0000 | <tomsmeding> | I dunno, the error ghc gave me mentioned it and I was obedient |
| 2025-05-20 15:53:08 +0000 | <hellwolf> | hmm, let me try! if that works, that solved one of my inference woes |
| 2025-05-20 15:53:29 +0000 | <hellwolf> | yea, let me try it end-to-end |
| 2025-05-20 15:53:53 +0000 | <tomsmeding> | notable is that this is not injective in f, only in xs |
| 2025-05-20 15:54:38 +0000 | <c_wraith> | you could add more dependencies |
| 2025-05-20 15:56:31 +0000 | internatetional | (~nate@2001:448a:20a3:c2e5:25:514a:e62a:e326) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2025-05-20 15:57:43 +0000 | kuribas | (~user@ip-188-118-57-242.reverse.destiny.be) (Quit: ERC 5.5.0.29.1 (IRC client for GNU Emacs 29.3)) |
| 2025-05-20 15:59:56 +0000 | <hellwolf> | huh? |
| 2025-05-20 16:02:43 +0000 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
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| 2025-05-20 16:10:41 +0000 | <hellwolf> | nope |
| 2025-05-20 16:10:50 +0000 | <hellwolf> | in the end, it still doesn't work with the type inference |
| 2025-05-20 16:11:20 +0000 | merijn | (~merijn@77.242.116.146) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
| 2025-05-20 16:11:30 +0000 | <int-e> | yeah as the type checker will tell you, MapList f '[] = '[] fails to be injective in f. |
| 2025-05-20 16:12:03 +0000 | <hellwolf> | I know a workaround now. But that undecidableinstances probably means "well, maybe it will not be injective after all, but I will not fail for now?" |
| 2025-05-20 16:12:56 +0000 | <bwe> | [exa]: just to confirm, I should call `enableAllocationLimit` to let gc run more often so the remaining allocated memory is really the actually used one? |
| 2025-05-20 16:15:00 +0000 | Digitteknohippie | (~user@user/digit) Digit |
| 2025-05-20 16:15:46 +0000 | Digit | (~user@user/digit) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
| 2025-05-20 16:17:37 +0000 | ubert | (~Thunderbi@2a02:8109:ab8a:5a00:ba65:46ef:51e6:1d86) (Quit: ubert) |
| 2025-05-20 16:18:22 +0000 | tzh | (~tzh@c-76-115-131-146.hsd1.or.comcast.net) tzh |
| 2025-05-20 16:18:24 +0000 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-05-20 16:18:45 +0000 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-05-20 16:19:23 +0000 | j1n37 | (~j1n37@user/j1n37) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
| 2025-05-20 16:21:35 +0000 | <int-e> | hellwolf: no. as usual you just give up on a crude constraint that the type checker uses to ensure that type checking terminates in favor of a best effort approach that is still sound *if* it terminates. https://ghc.gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/doc/users_guide/exts/type_families.html#verifying-the-injectivi… |
| 2025-05-20 16:22:08 +0000 | j1n37 | (~j1n37@user/j1n37) j1n37 |
| 2025-05-20 16:22:45 +0000 | <int-e> | (sticking to logic language, you're giving up completeness) |
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| 2025-05-20 16:25:58 +0000 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-05-20 16:27:08 +0000 | tromp | (~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:8936:d4:f59:5d83) |
| 2025-05-20 16:31:55 +0000 | machinedgod | (~machinedg@d108-173-18-100.abhsia.telus.net) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2025-05-20 16:32:09 +0000 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-05-20 16:32:31 +0000 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-05-20 16:34:51 +0000 | <hellwolf> | I see. |
| 2025-05-20 16:35:42 +0000 | <hellwolf> | we accept term-level bottom by default. but somehow at type-level our default is more strict. |
| 2025-05-20 16:36:20 +0000 | JuanDaugherty | (~juan@user/JuanDaugherty) JuanDaugherty |
| 2025-05-20 16:37:45 +0000 | <EvanR> | having the compiler enter an infinite loop is not cool |
| 2025-05-20 16:38:05 +0000 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-05-20 16:38:10 +0000 | Vq | (~vq@81-226-38-201-no600.tbcn.telia.com) Vq |
| 2025-05-20 16:38:28 +0000 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-05-20 16:44:34 +0000 | Guest11 | (~Guest11@syn-066-008-200-171.res.spectrum.com) |
| 2025-05-20 16:44:50 +0000 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-05-20 16:45:13 +0000 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-05-20 16:47:01 +0000 | wootehfoot | (~wootehfoo@user/wootehfoot) wootehfoot |
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| 2025-05-20 16:53:22 +0000 | Frostillicus | (~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) |
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| 2025-05-20 16:53:46 +0000 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-05-20 16:54:06 +0000 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-05-20 16:56:54 +0000 | ft | (~ft@p3e9bc106.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) ft |
| 2025-05-20 16:57:03 +0000 | Publiun | (Publiun@108-93-172-143.lightspeed.miamfl.sbcglobal.net) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-05-20 16:57:46 +0000 | pointlessslippe1 | (~pointless@62.106.85.17) (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in) |
| 2025-05-20 17:00:57 +0000 | biberu | (~biberu@user/biberu) biberu |
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| 2025-05-20 17:01:56 +0000 | pointlessslippe1 | (~pointless@62.106.85.17) pointlessslippe1 |
| 2025-05-20 17:07:00 +0000 | Square2 | (~Square@user/square) Square |
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| 2025-05-20 17:17:29 +0000 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
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| 2025-05-20 17:19:39 +0000 | jmcantrell | (~weechat@user/jmcantrell) jmcantrell |
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| 2025-05-20 17:26:58 +0000 | Digitteknohippie | Digit |
| 2025-05-20 17:26:59 +0000 | tromp | (~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:8936:d4:f59:5d83) |
| 2025-05-20 17:27:44 +0000 | Frostillicus | (~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2025-05-20 17:28:43 +0000 | acidjnk | (~acidjnk@p200300d6e71c4f69dd73fba2cf3982fe.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) acidjnk |
| 2025-05-20 17:33:18 +0000 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-05-20 17:37:17 +0000 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-05-20 17:37:30 +0000 | pyooque | (~puke@user/puke) puke |
| 2025-05-20 17:37:30 +0000 | puke | (~puke@user/puke) (Killed (erbium.libera.chat (Nickname regained by services))) |
| 2025-05-20 17:37:30 +0000 | pyooque | puke |
| 2025-05-20 17:37:38 +0000 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
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| 2025-05-20 17:38:04 +0000 | j1n37- | (~j1n37@user/j1n37) j1n37 |
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| 2025-05-20 17:40:15 +0000 | nefercheprure | (tma@twin.jikos.cz) TMA |
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| 2025-05-20 17:42:02 +0000 | TMA | (tma@twin.jikos.cz) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
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| 2025-05-20 17:42:03 +0000 | biberu\ | biberu |
| 2025-05-20 17:42:03 +0000 | monochrm | monochrom |
| 2025-05-20 17:45:06 +0000 | Fijxu | (~Fijxu@user/fijxu) fijxu |
| 2025-05-20 17:46:18 +0000 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
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| 2025-05-20 17:51:20 +0000 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
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| 2025-05-20 17:53:20 +0000 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-05-20 17:55:15 +0000 | Digitteknohippie | (~user@user/digit) Digit |
| 2025-05-20 17:56:05 +0000 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 2025-05-20 17:56:30 +0000 | Digit | (~user@user/digit) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2025-05-20 17:59:27 +0000 | euphores | (~SASL_euph@user/euphores) (Quit: Leaving.) |
| 2025-05-20 18:00:00 +0000 | mulk | (~mulk@p5b2dc83b.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2025-05-20 18:00:23 +0000 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-05-20 18:00:45 +0000 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-05-20 18:01:52 +0000 | Digitteknohippie | Digit |
| 2025-05-20 18:02:53 +0000 | wootehfoot | (~wootehfoo@user/wootehfoot) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2025-05-20 18:06:56 +0000 | Digitteknohippie | (~user@user/digit) Digit |
| 2025-05-20 18:07:08 +0000 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
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| 2025-05-20 18:08:16 +0000 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-05-20 18:08:40 +0000 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-05-20 18:11:43 +0000 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
| 2025-05-20 18:13:43 +0000 | mulk | (~mulk@p5b2dc83b.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) mulk |
| 2025-05-20 18:14:16 +0000 | Digitteknohippie | Digit |
| 2025-05-20 18:14:37 +0000 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-05-20 18:15:00 +0000 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
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| 2025-05-20 18:22:52 +0000 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-05-20 18:22:56 +0000 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-05-20 18:27:37 +0000 | JuanDaugherty | (~juan@user/JuanDaugherty) (Quit: praxis.meansofproduction.biz (juan@acm.org)) |
| 2025-05-20 18:27:49 +0000 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
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| 2025-05-20 18:33:40 +0000 | rvalue- | (~rvalue@user/rvalue) rvalue |
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| 2025-05-20 18:40:30 +0000 | rvalue- | rvalue |
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| 2025-05-20 18:44:10 +0000 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-05-20 18:45:40 +0000 | notzmv | (~daniel@user/notzmv) notzmv |
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| 2025-05-20 18:47:34 +0000 | j1n37 | (~j1n37@user/j1n37) j1n37 |
| 2025-05-20 18:50:41 +0000 | ljdarj | (~Thunderbi@user/ljdarj) ljdarj |
| 2025-05-20 18:50:43 +0000 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-05-20 18:51:04 +0000 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-05-20 18:54:10 +0000 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-05-20 18:58:54 +0000 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-05-20 18:59:19 +0000 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2025-05-20 18:59:19 +0000 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-05-20 19:00:03 +0000 | caconym7 | (~caconym@user/caconym) (Quit: bye) |
| 2025-05-20 19:00:44 +0000 | caconym7 | (~caconym@user/caconym) caconym |
| 2025-05-20 19:00:48 +0000 | <[exa]> | bwe: not sure tbh, but that seems to rather kill the thread after crossing a work threshold than cause earlier gc's |
| 2025-05-20 19:03:08 +0000 | <bwe> | [exa]: Are you aware of https://github.com/bgamari/html-parse ? |
| 2025-05-20 19:03:29 +0000 | <[exa]> | "aware" yes, "ever touched it" not really :D |
| 2025-05-20 19:04:09 +0000 | <[exa]> | looks like the hiperf XML parsers though, could be cool |
| 2025-05-20 19:04:22 +0000 | <EvanR> | >library is called "parse >it's a tokenizer |
| 2025-05-20 19:04:34 +0000 | <EvanR> | lost a quote |
| 2025-05-20 19:05:29 +0000 | [exa] | is full of satisfaction looking at the picked nit |
| 2025-05-20 19:05:50 +0000 | L29Ah | (~L29Ah@wikipedia/L29Ah) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2025-05-20 19:05:54 +0000 | <EvanR> | is this typical language in web |
| 2025-05-20 19:06:11 +0000 | <EvanR> | expect html parser to give a giant AST |
| 2025-05-20 19:06:25 +0000 | <[exa]> | like, browers are giant ASTs |
| 2025-05-20 19:06:26 +0000 | <EvanR> | (or fail because HTML) |
| 2025-05-20 19:08:43 +0000 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-05-20 19:08:56 +0000 | L29Ah | (~L29Ah@wikipedia/L29Ah) L29Ah |
| 2025-05-20 19:09:05 +0000 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-05-20 19:09:43 +0000 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> bwe: ah, that's unfortunate about tagsoup memory use |
| 2025-05-20 19:09:58 +0000 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-05-20 19:10:41 +0000 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> +(https://github.com/ndmitchell/tagsoup/issues/83) |
| 2025-05-20 19:10:57 +0000 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> oops, irc edit |
| 2025-05-20 19:11:05 +0000 | <bwe> | What's the difference between tokenizer and parser? |
| 2025-05-20 19:11:49 +0000 | <sm> | I read recently that "lexing detects words, parsing detects sentences (with grammar) |
| 2025-05-20 19:12:04 +0000 | notzmv | (~daniel@user/notzmv) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 2025-05-20 19:12:41 +0000 | AlexNoo_ | (~AlexNoo@178.34.162.255) |
| 2025-05-20 19:13:25 +0000 | <Rembane> | You can use a parser as a tokenizer, so there's some semantic subset going on there. |
| 2025-05-20 19:13:50 +0000 | <bwe> | [exa]: which hiperf XML parsers do you mean? html-parse uses attoparsec underneath. |
| 2025-05-20 19:15:19 +0000 | <EvanR> | lexing / tokenizing is usually a thing that can process the input stream using a finite automaton, constant space |
| 2025-05-20 19:16:00 +0000 | AlexNoo | (~AlexNoo@178.34.162.255) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2025-05-20 19:16:22 +0000 | <EvanR> | but to parse e.g. haskell syntax that wouldn't be enough |
| 2025-05-20 19:16:24 +0000 | <mauke> | I'd say a lexer is a parser that produces a flat list of "tokens" as output |
| 2025-05-20 19:16:50 +0000 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 2025-05-20 19:16:56 +0000 | <mauke> | and those tokens usually correspond directly to substrings of the input |
| 2025-05-20 19:17:25 +0000 | pavonia | (~user@user/siracusa) siracusa |
| 2025-05-20 19:18:20 +0000 | <EvanR> | the classic "you tried to parse HTML with regex" is ignoring the fact that you can in fact tokenize the HTML using a regex, so it's assuming parsing is something else. In that context |
| 2025-05-20 19:18:31 +0000 | Nosrep | (~Nosrep@user/nosrep) Nosrep |
| 2025-05-20 19:18:46 +0000 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-05-20 19:19:13 +0000 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-05-20 19:19:25 +0000 | <Rembane> | IIRC the pumping lemma can be used to show that an arbitrary blob of HTML can't be parsed with regex. |
| 2025-05-20 19:19:27 +0000 | sprotte24 | (~sprotte24@p200300d16f05e6007d40c893d0bf5242.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 2025-05-20 19:19:50 +0000 | <mauke> | I use perl. my regexes spit on your pumping lemma :-) |
| 2025-05-20 19:20:08 +0000 | <mauke> | but also, while you can technically tokenize <script> elements with a regex, it won't be pretty |
| 2025-05-20 19:20:15 +0000 | <EvanR> | not your grand dad's regex |
| 2025-05-20 19:20:29 +0000 | <Rembane> | Well, your regexes are neither regular nor expressions so I can see why. |
| 2025-05-20 19:20:37 +0000 | <mauke> | I gave up on it and wrote two nested loops instead |
| 2025-05-20 19:20:42 +0000 | <mauke> | exactly! |
| 2025-05-20 19:20:46 +0000 | <Rembane> | :D |
| 2025-05-20 19:20:51 +0000 | <Rembane> | "This son, are two nested loops." |
| 2025-05-20 19:21:06 +0000 | <EvanR> | if you see <script> switch to the javascript tokenizer |
| 2025-05-20 19:21:28 +0000 | <mauke> | you can't, actually |
| 2025-05-20 19:21:28 +0000 | <EvanR> | because this is the only script ever |
| 2025-05-20 19:21:48 +0000 | <mauke> | using the js tokenizer means you'd potentially miss the </script> end tag |
| 2025-05-20 19:22:16 +0000 | <EvanR> | shirley js tokenizer's have a thing for this |
| 2025-05-20 19:22:40 +0000 | <EvanR> | to treat </script> as an EOF |
| 2025-05-20 19:23:04 +0000 | <mauke> | can't. </script> can occur in the middle of a string or comment |
| 2025-05-20 19:23:04 +0000 | <EvanR> | ... that is not within a string |
| 2025-05-20 19:23:17 +0000 | EvanR | flips the table |
| 2025-05-20 19:23:25 +0000 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> lol |
| 2025-05-20 19:23:27 +0000 | <Rembane> | So you need half a javascript tokenizer and half a html tokenizer to stop tokenizing javasciprt? |
| 2025-05-20 19:23:48 +0000 | carbolymer | (~carbolyme@dropacid.net) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-05-20 19:23:51 +0000 | ian_ | (~ian@81.2.99.210) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 2025-05-20 19:23:51 +0000 | j0lol | (~j0lol@132.145.17.236) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 2025-05-20 19:24:03 +0000 | <mauke> | first you find the end tag using the html tokenizer, then you pass the string contents to the js parser |
| 2025-05-20 19:24:12 +0000 | sord937 | (~sord937@gateway/tor-sasl/sord937) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 2025-05-20 19:24:17 +0000 | <mauke> | reparsing, baby |
| 2025-05-20 19:24:30 +0000 | <EvanR> | but my finite automaton |
| 2025-05-20 19:24:33 +0000 | <Rembane> | mauke: How do you know that the end tag isn't in a string or js-comment or some other cursed syntactical element? |
| 2025-05-20 19:24:42 +0000 | <mauke> | you don't |
| 2025-05-20 19:24:50 +0000 | <Rembane> | Does the js parser know? |
| 2025-05-20 19:24:57 +0000 | carbolymer | (~carbolyme@dropacid.net) carbolymer |
| 2025-05-20 19:24:59 +0000 | <mauke> | know what? |
| 2025-05-20 19:25:02 +0000 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-05-20 19:25:05 +0000 | j0lol | (~j0lol@132.145.17.236) j0lol |
| 2025-05-20 19:25:06 +0000 | <EvanR> | yes the html tokenizer knows |
| 2025-05-20 19:25:24 +0000 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-05-20 19:25:28 +0000 | <Rembane> | If the resulting potential content of the script-tag is only javascript |
| 2025-05-20 19:25:30 +0000 | Igloo | (~ian@81.2.99.210) |
| 2025-05-20 19:25:33 +0000 | <mauke> | consider: <script> var x = "</script>"; |
| 2025-05-20 19:25:57 +0000 | <EvanR> | nevermind |
| 2025-05-20 19:25:58 +0000 | <mauke> | as far as html is considered, that's a script element with content ' var x = "', followed by a text node of '";' |
| 2025-05-20 19:26:00 +0000 | sord937 | (~sord937@gateway/tor-sasl/sord937) sord937 |
| 2025-05-20 19:26:09 +0000 | <mauke> | and as far as javascript is considered, that's a syntax error |
| 2025-05-20 19:26:18 +0000 | <mauke> | (unterminated string constant) |
| 2025-05-20 19:26:55 +0000 | <EvanR> | <script> var x = "</script>"; </script> |
| 2025-05-20 19:26:59 +0000 | <EvanR> | there, fixed it |
| 2025-05-20 19:27:03 +0000 | <EvanR> | lol |
| 2025-05-20 19:27:14 +0000 | <mauke> | that's an html error (unmatched </script> tag) |
| 2025-05-20 19:28:01 +0000 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-05-20 19:28:25 +0000 | <int-e> | . o O ( <script id="vs" type="x-shader/x-vertex">...</script> ) |
| 2025-05-20 19:29:37 +0000 | <EvanR> | so tokens can be huge, the text blob of an entire script or any sort |
| 2025-05-20 19:30:07 +0000 | <int-e> | parsing is easy unless it needs to be accurate or fast |
| 2025-05-20 19:30:07 +0000 | <EvanR> | the web hates performance and efficiency |
| 2025-05-20 19:31:25 +0000 | <Rembane> | Avoid performance at all costs! |
| 2025-05-20 19:31:26 +0000 | machinedgod | (~machinedg@d108-173-18-100.abhsia.telus.net) machinedgod |
| 2025-05-20 19:31:36 +0000 | <Rembane> | It's a part of their immune system |
| 2025-05-20 19:32:50 +0000 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-05-20 19:33:09 +0000 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2025-05-20 19:33:14 +0000 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-05-20 19:33:43 +0000 | <mauke> | look at this nonsense: https://metacpan.org/release/MAUKE/HTML-Blitz-0.1001/source/lib/HTML/Blitz/Parser.pm#L174-194 |
| 2025-05-20 19:34:49 +0000 | j1n37 | (~j1n37@user/j1n37) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 2025-05-20 19:34:50 +0000 | <Rembane> | mauke: Are there gotos there disuised as redos? |
| 2025-05-20 19:35:25 +0000 | j1n37 | (~j1n37@user/j1n37) j1n37 |
| 2025-05-20 19:36:02 +0000 | <int-e> | mauke: ??! |
| 2025-05-20 19:36:18 +0000 | <Rembane> | Somehow I believe that that code started out much simpler than that. |
| 2025-05-20 19:36:30 +0000 | <mauke> | Rembane: only in the sense that 'while' and 'continue' are also gotos in disguise |
| 2025-05-20 19:36:39 +0000 | <Rembane> | mauke: Of course they are! |
| 2025-05-20 19:36:51 +0000 | <Rembane> | mauke: Structured gotos considered really sweet! |
| 2025-05-20 19:37:41 +0000 | <mauke> | that code is more or less a faithful translation of the state machine in the html5 spec |
| 2025-05-20 19:39:20 +0000 | AlexNoo_ | AlexNoo |
| 2025-05-20 19:39:37 +0000 | <mauke> | you can convert it into a single regex, but I couldn't figure out how myself, so I had to look up an "automaton to regular expression" algorithm |
| 2025-05-20 19:40:14 +0000 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-05-20 19:40:38 +0000 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-05-20 19:42:57 +0000 | <mauke> | in case you couldn't tell from the code, <script> elements can contain "html" comments, which can contain nested <script> ... </script> tags |
| 2025-05-20 19:43:07 +0000 | <mauke> | but only one level deep |
| 2025-05-20 19:43:22 +0000 | peterbecich | (~Thunderbi@syn-047-229-123-186.res.spectrum.com) peterbecich |
| 2025-05-20 19:43:46 +0000 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-05-20 19:43:57 +0000 | <mauke> | also, a </script> tag can interrupt/close an unclosed comment and a '-->' can interrupt/close a nested <script> tag |
| 2025-05-20 19:44:11 +0000 | Tuplanolla | (~Tuplanoll@91-159-69-59.elisa-laajakaista.fi) Tuplanolla |
| 2025-05-20 19:44:33 +0000 | <EvanR> | o_O |
| 2025-05-20 19:44:40 +0000 | <mauke> | also also, <!-- starts a "comment", but <!--> and <!---> do not |
| 2025-05-20 19:45:08 +0000 | <mauke> | valid: <script> <!-- </script> |
| 2025-05-20 19:45:19 +0000 | <mauke> | valid: <script> <!-- <script> --> </script> |
| 2025-05-20 19:45:33 +0000 | <mauke> | valid: <script> <!-- <script> </script> --> </script> |
| 2025-05-20 19:45:47 +0000 | <mauke> | and no, none of this makes sense as javascript |
| 2025-05-20 19:46:11 +0000 | <EvanR> | wait ... do the comments end up in the script instead of being discarded |
| 2025-05-20 19:46:35 +0000 | <EvanR> | (the complete comments) |
| 2025-05-20 19:46:41 +0000 | <mauke> | of course |
| 2025-05-20 19:46:48 +0000 | <mauke> | this is just to find the end of the script element |
| 2025-05-20 19:46:55 +0000 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-05-20 19:47:02 +0000 | <mauke> | as always, the contents are passed verbatim to the javascript parser |
| 2025-05-20 19:47:08 +0000 | sord937 | (~sord937@gateway/tor-sasl/sord937) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-05-20 19:47:18 +0000 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-05-20 19:47:37 +0000 | sord937 | (~sord937@gateway/tor-sasl/sord937) sord937 |
| 2025-05-20 19:47:50 +0000 | <EvanR> | valid: <script> <!-- <script> --> </script> the second pair of script tags is the script? |
| 2025-05-20 19:48:04 +0000 | <mauke> | no, that is one full script element |
| 2025-05-20 19:48:15 +0000 | <mauke> | contents: " <!-- <script> --> " |
| 2025-05-20 19:48:23 +0000 | jespada | (~jespada@r190-133-13-145.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy) (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) |
| 2025-05-20 19:49:12 +0000 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 2025-05-20 19:49:19 +0000 | jespada | (~jespada@r190-133-13-145.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy) jespada |
| 2025-05-20 19:52:27 +0000 | Square | (~Square4@user/square) Square |
| 2025-05-20 19:54:28 +0000 | <mauke> | so anyway, if you want to have fun with an "AI" coding LLM, ask it to generate a Haskell function for finding the correct script end tag (after having seen the script start tag) in an HTML document |
| 2025-05-20 19:54:37 +0000 | peterbecich | (~Thunderbi@syn-047-229-123-186.res.spectrum.com) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2025-05-20 19:55:06 +0000 | notzmv | (~daniel@user/notzmv) notzmv |
| 2025-05-20 19:56:02 +0000 | Square3 | (~Square@user/square) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) |
| 2025-05-20 19:58:06 +0000 | <EvanR> | vibes can't be denied so easily |
| 2025-05-20 19:58:58 +0000 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-05-20 19:59:23 +0000 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-05-20 19:59:34 +0000 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-05-20 19:59:52 +0000 | bitdex | (~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex) bitdex |
| 2025-05-20 20:01:05 +0000 | <EvanR> | it did findIndex (isPrefixOf "</script>") . tails |
| 2025-05-20 20:01:18 +0000 | <mauke> | hahaha |
| 2025-05-20 20:01:52 +0000 | <mauke> | you can trivially break that with </SCRIPT> or </script > |
| 2025-05-20 20:02:20 +0000 | <EvanR> | I left out a T.toLower preprocessing step on that |
| 2025-05-20 20:02:39 +0000 | <EvanR> | while paraphrasing |
| 2025-05-20 20:03:40 +0000 | <mauke> | still leaves </script > :-) |
| 2025-05-20 20:03:52 +0000 | <mauke> | and technically, </script/ |
| 2025-05-20 20:04:09 +0000 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 2025-05-20 20:04:16 +0000 | <mauke> | which HTML says is a script end tag, but also a syntax error, but errors may be ignored |
| 2025-05-20 20:04:17 +0000 | <EvanR> | haha yeah |
| 2025-05-20 20:04:37 +0000 | <EvanR> | </script/ wtf |
| 2025-05-20 20:09:02 +0000 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-05-20 20:09:24 +0000 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-05-20 20:13:28 +0000 | sord937 | (~sord937@gateway/tor-sasl/sord937) (Quit: sord937) |
| 2025-05-20 20:15:20 +0000 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-05-20 20:16:17 +0000 | ljdarj | (~Thunderbi@user/ljdarj) (Quit: ljdarj) |
| 2025-05-20 20:16:37 +0000 | ljdarj | (~Thunderbi@user/ljdarj) ljdarj |
| 2025-05-20 20:17:14 +0000 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-05-20 20:17:34 +0000 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-05-20 20:19:15 +0000 | driib318 | (~driib@vmi931078.contaboserver.net) driib |
| 2025-05-20 20:19:45 +0000 | notzmv | (~daniel@user/notzmv) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2025-05-20 20:20:29 +0000 | <hellwolf> | why does this one not compile: https://play.haskell.org/saved/TMp4lfN1 |
| 2025-05-20 20:20:48 +0000 | <hellwolf> | Couldn't match expected type: TupleNtoNP m (m a1, m a2) |
| 2025-05-20 20:20:48 +0000 | <hellwolf> | with actual type: NP m [a1, a2] |
| 2025-05-20 20:20:58 +0000 | <hellwolf> | But the closed type family clearly has that formular |
| 2025-05-20 20:20:58 +0000 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 2025-05-20 20:21:10 +0000 | michalz | (~michalz@185.246.207.200) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-05-20 20:25:25 +0000 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-05-20 20:25:47 +0000 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-05-20 20:29:12 +0000 | <int-e> | It works without the (m x) case, say if you did TN2NP m (Solo (m x)) instead |
| 2025-05-20 20:29:14 +0000 | gorignak | (~gorignak@user/gorignak) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2025-05-20 20:29:27 +0000 | gorignak | (~gorignak@user/gorignak) gorignak |
| 2025-05-20 20:29:45 +0000 | finsternis | (~X@23.226.237.192) finsternis |
| 2025-05-20 20:29:56 +0000 | <int-e> | (m x) matches a lot, so how exactly does GHC deal with non-linearity of the lhs of a closed type family? |
| 2025-05-20 20:30:30 +0000 | <int-e> | for (a,b) you can take m = (,) a and x = b |
| 2025-05-20 20:31:08 +0000 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-05-20 20:31:47 +0000 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-05-20 20:32:08 +0000 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-05-20 20:32:14 +0000 | <hellwolf> | aha, so it is the Solo |
| 2025-05-20 20:32:43 +0000 | <int-e> | so if GHC treats that LHS as (m ~ m') => TN2NP m (m' x) that would cause the "head" to match and possibly stop it from looking at later cases despite the constraint failing |
| 2025-05-20 20:33:10 +0000 | <int-e> | just a plausible guess, I don't know what GHC actually does |
| 2025-05-20 20:33:31 +0000 | <hellwolf> | https://play.haskell.org/saved/Qn7C7nFy |
| 2025-05-20 20:33:47 +0000 | <hellwolf> | so, it was indeed just the Solo. I just didn't understand the error message. |
| 2025-05-20 20:34:38 +0000 | <hellwolf> | All good now, I can continue. Thanks! |
| 2025-05-20 20:34:49 +0000 | <int-e> | well the error doesn't explain why it fails to simplify that TN2NP m (m a1, m a2) |
| 2025-05-20 20:35:21 +0000 | gorignak | (~gorignak@user/gorignak) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 2025-05-20 20:35:23 +0000 | <hellwolf> | I mean, Solo (MkSolo) is the most awkward thing to work with. |
| 2025-05-20 20:35:58 +0000 | <int-e> | but that overlap of m x with virtually anything is very likely the cause *somehow* |
| 2025-05-20 20:35:59 +0000 | <hellwolf> | my hunch is that somehow "TupleNtoNP m (m x)" matched my Tuple2 case |
| 2025-05-20 20:36:03 +0000 | gorignak | (~gorignak@user/gorignak) gorignak |
| 2025-05-20 20:36:16 +0000 | <int-e> | that is what I've been saying |
| 2025-05-20 20:36:30 +0000 | vulpine | (xfnw@user/meow/xfnw) (Quit: Connection reset by purr) |
| 2025-05-20 20:36:39 +0000 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 2025-05-20 20:36:45 +0000 | <hellwolf> | yea, I understood. But I can't wrap my head around easily, since it's not just a textual matching |
| 2025-05-20 20:37:01 +0000 | <hellwolf> | "m = (,) a" as you said |
| 2025-05-20 20:37:39 +0000 | <hellwolf> | I could actually make the Solo case the last one in the list of formulae of closed type family |
| 2025-05-20 20:37:43 +0000 | <hellwolf> | that's a "hack" |
| 2025-05-20 20:37:59 +0000 | <hellwolf> | to avoid using Solo (MkSolo) |
| 2025-05-20 20:38:05 +0000 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-05-20 20:38:27 +0000 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-05-20 20:38:32 +0000 | vulpine | (~xfnw@user/meow/xfnw) xfnw |
| 2025-05-20 20:38:43 +0000 | <int-e> | the overlap will still bite you if at some point m is actually a (,) a or (,,) a b etc. |
| 2025-05-20 20:39:26 +0000 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-05-20 20:39:30 +0000 | <hellwolf> | yea. better no hack. just live with Solo |
| 2025-05-20 20:39:50 +0000 | <hellwolf> | also, I have bunch of specialized foo_1 to work with Solo... so silly |
| 2025-05-20 20:40:31 +0000 | <hellwolf> | at that point, perhaps users should just type Solo(MkSolo) themselves |
| 2025-05-20 20:41:25 +0000 | <int-e> | Haskell was not exactly designed for type-level programming :) |
| 2025-05-20 20:43:08 +0000 | <hellwolf> | I am masochist |
| 2025-05-20 20:43:30 +0000 | <EvanR> | lets see doom at type level in haskell lets go |
| 2025-05-20 20:44:22 +0000 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2025-05-20 20:44:36 +0000 | <hellwolf> | whole-program specialization and all reduced to a IO :: () and pure () |
| 2025-05-20 20:45:16 +0000 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-05-20 20:45:40 +0000 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-05-20 20:51:17 +0000 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-05-20 20:51:40 +0000 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-05-20 20:54:42 +0000 | <sm> | EvanR! Nooo! |
| 2025-05-20 20:55:15 +0000 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-05-20 20:57:05 +0000 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-05-20 20:57:31 +0000 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-05-20 21:00:08 +0000 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2025-05-20 21:03:14 +0000 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-05-20 21:03:35 +0000 | tromp | (~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:8936:d4:f59:5d83) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) |
| 2025-05-20 21:03:36 +0000 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-05-20 21:06:55 +0000 | <monochrom> | Is that the next "Doom can run on anything" challenge? It is not enough to run Doom on your toaster, it must also run on GHC during compile time? |
| 2025-05-20 21:08:40 +0000 | <EvanR> | yes there was a recent attempt in typescript |
| 2025-05-20 21:09:52 +0000 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-05-20 21:10:19 +0000 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-05-20 21:11:01 +0000 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-05-20 21:16:05 +0000 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 2025-05-20 21:16:23 +0000 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-05-20 21:16:47 +0000 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-05-20 21:22:01 +0000 | j1n37- | (~j1n37@user/j1n37) j1n37 |
| 2025-05-20 21:22:36 +0000 | j1n37 | (~j1n37@user/j1n37) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2025-05-20 21:23:04 +0000 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-05-20 21:23:26 +0000 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-05-20 21:23:44 +0000 | ttybitnik | (~ttybitnik@user/wolper) ttybitnik |
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| 2025-05-20 21:25:34 +0000 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
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| 2025-05-20 21:35:42 +0000 | LAC-Tech | (~lewis@granite-phrase.bnr.la) LAC-Tech |
| 2025-05-20 21:35:58 +0000 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-05-20 21:36:47 +0000 | <LAC-Tech> | is haskells type system able to distinguish between deterministic and non-deterministic code? broadly I'd expect the IO monad to be that boundary, but I am not very familiar with the language. |
| 2025-05-20 21:37:38 +0000 | <sm> | not entirely, because exceptions aren't all reflected in types |
| 2025-05-20 21:38:04 +0000 | <sm> | in practice, definitely more so than most languages |
| 2025-05-20 21:38:41 +0000 | <davean> | most exceptions are deterministic though, only a few aren't and they're not code related "exactly" |
| 2025-05-20 21:38:46 +0000 | <sm> | another source of non-determinism: a different version of the compiler might cause different memory behaviour |
| 2025-05-20 21:39:21 +0000 | <LAC-Tech> | I'd constrain determinism here to include the same compiler version, and conveniently ignore hardware issuse etc. but I didn't know about exceptions |
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| 2025-05-20 21:52:50 +0000 | nefercheprure | TMA |
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| 2025-05-20 22:44:15 +0000 | <EvanR> | LAC-Tech, there's imprecise exceptions |
| 2025-05-20 22:45:04 +0000 | <EvanR> | so technically unknown "pure code" containing no unsafePerformIO is not guaranteed to be deterministic |
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| 2025-05-20 22:48:50 +0000 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> we’re talking about asynchronous exceptions, right ? |
| 2025-05-20 22:49:11 +0000 | <EvanR> | no |
| 2025-05-20 22:49:29 +0000 | <EvanR> | like error "foo" + error "bar" |
| 2025-05-20 22:50:10 +0000 | <geekosaur> | if the compiler can determine that multiple paths all lead to bottoms, it can arbitrarily pick one |
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| 2025-05-20 23:04:26 +0000 | <haskellbridge> | <hellwolf> why is things like whenM not in base? I see that ghc and extra packages have them. |
| 2025-05-20 23:05:15 +0000 | <haskellbridge> | <hellwolf> I am exploring the design space of caving into monadic bang vs. having these specialized fooM functions. |
| 2025-05-20 23:05:40 +0000 | <haskellbridge> | <hellwolf> hence the question |
| 2025-05-20 23:07:39 +0000 | <c_wraith> | Usually something like traverse_ is better anyway. |
| 2025-05-20 23:07:40 +0000 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2025-05-20 23:07:44 +0000 | <EvanR> | normal language: bool does a lot of heavy lifting, in haskell I feel like it got relegated to tier 4 control technology. Because you pattern match on more meaningful things most of time |
| 2025-05-20 23:07:45 +0000 | tolgo | (~Thunderbi@199.115.144.130) |
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| 2025-05-20 23:08:34 +0000 | <c_wraith> | and that's because you generally try to avoid Bool, yeah |
| 2025-05-20 23:08:56 +0000 | tolgo | (~Thunderbi@199.115.144.130) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-05-20 23:10:13 +0000 | <LAC-Tech> | EvanR: interesting. General impression I'm getting is "it's mostly solved by the IO boundaries but there's a few annoying edge cases" |
| 2025-05-20 23:11:07 +0000 | <EvanR> | haskell is like the jumping off point to new languages with more guarantees rather than the destination |
| 2025-05-20 23:11:17 +0000 | <c_wraith> | Well, without IO you can't distinguish between different bottoms anyway |
| 2025-05-20 23:11:51 +0000 | <c_wraith> | So it doesn't really matter what exception is thrown, the value is a bottom. |
| 2025-05-20 23:11:54 +0000 | <EvanR> | but also if you mutate your perspective enough you can say haskell guarantees this or that ^ |
| 2025-05-20 23:12:20 +0000 | <EvanR> | the less actual stuff you care about the more abstract haskell gets |
| 2025-05-20 23:12:59 +0000 | <EvanR> | e.g. next you could just ignore bottom entirely |
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| 2025-05-20 23:22:09 +0000 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> LAC-Tech: I think it’s a recurring topic of language geeks but it doesn’t feel like a common annoyance for people building with haskell, we generally feel pretty confident in the “pure” parts of our code |
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| 2025-05-20 23:25:11 +0000 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> eg I’ve been building small-medium Haskell apps for the last 18 years, they feel pretty deterministic |
| 2025-05-20 23:25:44 +0000 | <LAC-Tech> | the property I am looking for is: same inputs, same outputs. notably this does not preclude mutable data structures, as long as they're internal - I'm not sure "pure" extends that far. system clocks, RNG, IO (maybe RNG falls under IO...), disk, network... that's stuff I'd want to exclude statically, if possible |
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| 2025-05-20 23:29:56 +0000 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> Yes, all those require the IO type |
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| 2025-05-20 23:32:27 +0000 | Sgeo | (~Sgeo@user/sgeo) Sgeo |
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| 2025-05-20 23:37:27 +0000 | <LAC-Tech> | aha, I thought so |
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| 2025-05-20 23:40:25 +0000 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> Haskell code universally enforces this. There’s an escape hatch called unsafePerformIO which low level libs may use when it’s guaranteed harmless but you can statically check that too |
| 2025-05-20 23:40:35 +0000 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
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| 2025-05-20 23:42:47 +0000 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> (or even high level code, I do use it occasionally but that’s a choice) |
| 2025-05-20 23:44:15 +0000 | <EvanR> | LAC-Tech, it's cool that you can use mutable structures in "pure code" via ST |
| 2025-05-20 23:44:33 +0000 | <EvanR> | the user of the code doesn't have to know |
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