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2025-02-21 06:19:32 +0000echoreply(~echoreply@45.32.163.16) echoreply
2025-02-21 06:19:58 +0000end(~end@user/end/x-0094621) end^
2025-02-21 06:20:50 +0000 <talismanick> Anyone else having trouble with fourmolu's trailing-section-operators option? It acts as if it's set to true, no matter if I edit fixities, comment them out, comment other options, etc
2025-02-21 06:20:51 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-02-21 06:20:51 +0000 <talismanick> https://pastebin.com/T6rPZTWN
2025-02-21 06:24:10 +0000echoreply(~echoreply@45.32.163.16) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2025-02-21 06:24:30 +0000atwm(~andrew@19-193-28-81.ftth.cust.kwaoo.net) atwm
2025-02-21 06:25:15 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2025-02-21 06:36:13 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-02-21 06:37:07 +0000echoreply(~echoreply@2001:19f0:9002:1f3b:5400:ff:fe6f:8b8d) echoreply
2025-02-21 06:38:51 +0000rvalue-(~rvalue@user/rvalue) rvalue
2025-02-21 06:38:51 +0000 <talismanick> well, it works when I run fourmolu from the CLI rather than LSP
2025-02-21 06:39:13 +0000rvalue(~rvalue@user/rvalue) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
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2025-02-21 08:34:56 +0000 <haskellbridge> <thirdofmay18081814goya> So profunctors are ways to assign an object to maps between objects. If so, why is the profunctor domain a product with a contravariant category? Wouldn't a product of two covariant categories have been enough?
2025-02-21 08:36:32 +0000alfiee(~alfiee@user/alfiee) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
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2025-02-21 08:42:12 +0000 <dminuoso> thirdofmay18081814goya: It is not about being "enough" or "more". Being contravariant is not an upgrade.
2025-02-21 08:42:45 +0000ljdarj(~Thunderbi@user/ljdarj) ljdarj
2025-02-21 08:43:27 +0000 <dminuoso> I can give you an (incomplete, but perhaps motivating) reason for wherer the contravariance comes from.
2025-02-21 08:43:39 +0000 <dminuoso> If we take a Haskell centric approach, then profunctors generalize (->)
2025-02-21 08:43:52 +0000tnt1(~Thunderbi@user/tnt1) tnt1
2025-02-21 08:43:55 +0000 <dminuoso> And it so happens that `(->) is contravariant in its first argument, but covariant in its second argument.
2025-02-21 08:45:14 +0000 <haskellbridge> <thirdofmay18081814goya> i.e. "lmap" is contravariant but "rmap" is covariant?
2025-02-21 08:45:31 +0000 <dminuoso> Yes.
2025-02-21 08:45:32 +0000chele(~chele@user/chele) chele
2025-02-21 08:45:44 +0000 <haskellbridge> <thirdofmay18081814goya> ah I see, ok this is an extremely helpful example, ty!
2025-02-21 08:51:11 +0000 <dminuoso> thirdofmay18081814goya: So a handwaving description is to describe profunctors (and (->) as a specific instance) as sort of "transformations", where you have some notion of "input" and "output"
2025-02-21 08:51:45 +0000 <dminuoso> It so happens that everything Ive said applies to category theory as well, though it takes a bit more precision to make this connection.
2025-02-21 08:52:14 +0000 <haskellbridge> <thirdofmay18081814goya> right, "lmap" is "given a connection to an earlier input, you can create the current input"
2025-02-21 08:52:32 +0000 <dminuoso> It may also help to see some examples of what this generalizes to
2025-02-21 08:52:49 +0000 <dminuoso> `Kleisli m` is a really good example
2025-02-21 08:53:21 +0000 <dminuoso> Say `a -> IO b` is something that you too can see as an (effectul) transformation
2025-02-21 08:53:56 +0000 <dminuoso> Except because of how our typesystem works we have to make it a `newtype Kleisli m a b = Kleisli { runKleisli a -> m b }` and call `Kleisli IO` a profunctor.
2025-02-21 08:54:36 +0000 <dminuoso> But it's really just about `a -> IO b`. And it so happens that for every Monad m, `Kleisli m` is such a profunctor.
2025-02-21 08:54:54 +0000 <dminuoso> So this starts to generalize even more.
2025-02-21 08:55:28 +0000 <dminuoso> Because at the end, even in `a -> IO b` you can map over the input, and the eventual output of the IO action.
2025-02-21 08:55:45 +0000 <dminuoso> Just like you can map over inputs (contravariantly) and outputs (covariantly) in `a -> b`
2025-02-21 08:56:00 +0000bitdex(~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2025-02-21 08:57:11 +0000 <haskellbridge> <thirdofmay18081814goya> this point of view was extremely helpful, ty! the definition makes perfect sense now
2025-02-21 09:01:51 +0000 <dminuoso> Ah let me make one correction, of course for Kleisli technically we only need `Functor`.
2025-02-21 09:02:47 +0000vpan(~vpan@212.117.1.172)
2025-02-21 09:02:50 +0000 <dminuoso> Im not entirely sure why both `Star` and `Kleisli` exist.
2025-02-21 09:03:40 +0000atwm(~andrew@19-193-28-81.ftth.cust.kwaoo.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2025-02-21 09:04:38 +0000 <dminuoso> My feeling is that Kleisli uses `liftM` in a bunch of places, perhaps because there may be edge cases where it may be faster than a generalized `fmap`?
2025-02-21 09:04:45 +0000 <dminuoso> And Star generalizes to arbitrary Functor?
2025-02-21 09:04:52 +0000 <dminuoso> I'm not sure.
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2025-02-21 09:21:35 +0000 <haskellbridge> <magic_rb> Anyone seen the person behind https://github.com/l-Shane-l/tiny-wlhs around? I seem to recall seeing them either here or in the matrix room. Im thinking about just hard switching to it, to force myself to fix any bugs i run into :)
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2025-02-21 09:24:18 +0000 <ski> thirdofmay18081814goya : read-only view of a mutable cell can be made covariant, write-only view can be made contravariant -- if we allow attaching a post- / pre- processing step to them, respectively. ditto for read-end and write-end of a concurrent channel
2025-02-21 09:24:53 +0000eL_Bart0(eL_Bart0@dietunichtguten.org)
2025-02-21 09:27:00 +0000 <ski> (in Concurrent ML (library model for concurrency, available for some ML systems), you can construct "events", which will trigger upon certain conditions. you can syncrhonize/await on such an event. given an event, you can attach a post-processing step to it, to be applied to the generated value, when the event triggers. this basically forms a monad (so covariant functor), iirc)
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2025-02-21 10:33:02 +0000lxsameer(~lxsameer@Serene/lxsameer) lxsameer
2025-02-21 10:34:23 +0000bjarki(~bjarki@tg-ux07.rhi.hi.is)
2025-02-21 10:40:33 +0000 <bjarki> would algebraic effect handlers make sense in Haskell?
2025-02-21 10:41:15 +0000 <Rembane> bjarki: Aren't they already there, or have I misunderstood something? https://hackage.haskell.org/package/effectful
2025-02-21 10:41:19 +0000 <merijn> bjarki: Well, there's approximately 50 different libraries trying that, so probably :p
2025-02-21 10:42:24 +0000euandreh(~Thunderbi@189.6.105.228) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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2025-02-21 10:42:48 +0000euandreh(~Thunderbi@189.6.105.228) (Client Quit)
2025-02-21 10:46:46 +0000 <bjarki> Thank you!
2025-02-21 10:51:28 +0000bjarki(~bjarki@tg-ux07.rhi.hi.is) (Quit: Client closed)
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2025-02-21 11:04:21 +0000 <Rembane> I wonder what they'll do with their newfound knowledge.
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2025-02-21 12:00:15 +0000 <haskellbridge> <l0negamer> Hi Haskell IRC (and Matrix!). I've posted on the discourse about the monad of no return proposal, and it would be good to get feedback, community input, and/or interest in implementation on the post. You can find it here: https://discourse.haskell.org/t/monad-of-no-return-next-steps/11443?u=l0negamer
2025-02-21 12:01:52 +0000 <Rembane> \o/
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2025-02-21 12:06:40 +0000CiaoSen(~Jura@ip-037-201-240-075.um10.pools.vodafone-ip.de) CiaoSen
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2025-02-21 12:17:35 +0000tnt2(~Thunderbi@user/tnt1) tnt1
2025-02-21 12:18:44 +0000tnt1(~Thunderbi@user/tnt1) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2025-02-21 12:19:54 +0000ash3en(~Thunderbi@2a03:7846:b6eb:101:93ac:a90a:da67:f207) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2025-02-21 12:22:33 +0000tnt2(~Thunderbi@user/tnt1) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2025-02-21 12:25:45 +0000tnt1(~Thunderbi@user/tnt1) tnt1
2025-02-21 12:27:01 +0000atwm(~andrew@19-193-28-81.ftth.cust.kwaoo.net) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2025-02-21 12:30:46 +0000atwm(~andrew@19-193-28-81.ftth.cust.kwaoo.net) atwm
2025-02-21 12:33:30 +0000alfiee(~alfiee@user/alfiee) alfiee
2025-02-21 12:34:48 +0000xff0x(~xff0x@2405:6580:b080:900:6f1d:57fb:41e:8090)
2025-02-21 12:35:35 +0000atwm(~andrew@19-193-28-81.ftth.cust.kwaoo.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2025-02-21 12:37:48 +0000alfiee(~alfiee@user/alfiee) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2025-02-21 12:38:06 +0000Googulator57(~Googulato@81.183.235.203)
2025-02-21 12:39:00 +0000atwm(~andrew@19-193-28-81.ftth.cust.kwaoo.net) atwm
2025-02-21 12:41:55 +0000tnt2(~Thunderbi@user/tnt1) tnt1
2025-02-21 12:43:21 +0000tnt1(~Thunderbi@user/tnt1) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2025-02-21 12:43:21 +0000tnt2tnt1
2025-02-21 12:49:54 +0000atwm(~andrew@19-193-28-81.ftth.cust.kwaoo.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2025-02-21 12:53:31 +0000tnt2(~Thunderbi@user/tnt1) tnt1
2025-02-21 12:54:08 +0000acidjnk(~acidjnk@p200300d6e7283f0735af0e4522a01c1a.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2025-02-21 12:55:35 +0000tnt1(~Thunderbi@user/tnt1) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2025-02-21 12:56:39 +0000tnt1(~Thunderbi@user/tnt1) tnt1
2025-02-21 12:57:58 +0000CiaoSen(~Jura@ip-037-201-240-075.um10.pools.vodafone-ip.de) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2025-02-21 12:58:03 +0000tnt2(~Thunderbi@user/tnt1) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2025-02-21 13:06:25 +0000tnt2(~Thunderbi@user/tnt1) tnt1
2025-02-21 13:07:27 +0000tnt1(~Thunderbi@user/tnt1) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2025-02-21 13:07:27 +0000tnt2tnt1
2025-02-21 13:08:32 +0000weary-traveler(~user@user/user363627) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-02-21 13:09:55 +0000mange(~user@user/mange) (Quit: Zzz...)
2025-02-21 13:17:47 +0000tnt1(~Thunderbi@user/tnt1) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2025-02-21 13:18:04 +0000rvalue(~rvalue@user/rvalue) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2025-02-21 13:18:09 +0000tnt1(~Thunderbi@user/tnt1) tnt1
2025-02-21 13:18:41 +0000rvalue(~rvalue@user/rvalue) rvalue
2025-02-21 13:20:20 +0000atwm(~andrew@19-193-28-81.ftth.cust.kwaoo.net) atwm
2025-02-21 13:20:33 +0000alfiee(~alfiee@user/alfiee) alfiee
2025-02-21 13:24:43 +0000atwm(~andrew@19-193-28-81.ftth.cust.kwaoo.net) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2025-02-21 13:25:24 +0000alfiee(~alfiee@user/alfiee) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2025-02-21 13:25:30 +0000acidjnk(~acidjnk@p200300d6e7283f0735af0e4522a01c1a.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) acidjnk
2025-02-21 13:29:16 +0000OFM(~OFM@206.red-83-37-119.dynamicip.rima-tde.net)
2025-02-21 13:30:24 +0000OFM(~OFM@206.red-83-37-119.dynamicip.rima-tde.net) (Client Quit)
2025-02-21 13:31:28 +0000tnt2(~Thunderbi@user/tnt1) tnt1
2025-02-21 13:32:46 +0000tnt1(~Thunderbi@user/tnt1) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2025-02-21 13:32:46 +0000tnt2tnt1
2025-02-21 13:36:43 +0000atwm(~andrew@19-193-28-81.ftth.cust.kwaoo.net) atwm
2025-02-21 13:40:36 +0000xff0x(~xff0x@2405:6580:b080:900:6f1d:57fb:41e:8090) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2025-02-21 13:41:05 +0000atwm(~andrew@19-193-28-81.ftth.cust.kwaoo.net) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2025-02-21 13:41:13 +0000pavonia(~user@user/siracusa) (Quit: Bye!)
2025-02-21 13:41:37 +0000j1n37(~j1n37@user/j1n37) j1n37
2025-02-21 13:42:06 +0000xff0x(~xff0x@2405:6580:b080:900:7cc3:4f4d:a90a:6dd1)
2025-02-21 13:42:10 +0000j1n37-(~j1n37@user/j1n37) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2025-02-21 13:43:17 +0000tnt2(~Thunderbi@user/tnt1) tnt1
2025-02-21 13:43:45 +0000tnt1(~Thunderbi@user/tnt1) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2025-02-21 13:43:46 +0000tnt2tnt1
2025-02-21 13:46:24 +0000zungi(~tory@user/andrewchawk) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2025-02-21 13:46:29 +0000xff0x(~xff0x@2405:6580:b080:900:7cc3:4f4d:a90a:6dd1) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2025-02-21 13:46:43 +0000atwm(~andrew@19-193-28-81.ftth.cust.kwaoo.net) atwm
2025-02-21 13:48:20 +0000xff0x(~xff0x@2405:6580:b080:900:b6bf:cda9:3963:dca)
2025-02-21 13:50:21 +0000xff0x(~xff0x@2405:6580:b080:900:b6bf:cda9:3963:dca) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2025-02-21 13:51:13 +0000atwm(~andrew@19-193-28-81.ftth.cust.kwaoo.net) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2025-02-21 13:51:46 +0000zungi(~tory@user/andrewchawk) andrewchawk
2025-02-21 13:53:43 +0000Square(~Square@user/square) Square
2025-02-21 13:54:24 +0000tnt2(~Thunderbi@user/tnt1) tnt1
2025-02-21 13:54:25 +0000tnt1(~Thunderbi@user/tnt1) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2025-02-21 13:54:26 +0000tnt2tnt1
2025-02-21 13:54:37 +0000xff0x(~xff0x@2405:6580:b080:900:6dac:d85c:a56f:65f8)
2025-02-21 13:56:23 +0000Tuplanolla(~Tuplanoll@91-159-69-59.elisa-laajakaista.fi) Tuplanolla
2025-02-21 13:57:28 +0000tnt2(~Thunderbi@user/tnt1) tnt1
2025-02-21 13:58:41 +0000weary-traveler(~user@user/user363627) user363627
2025-02-21 13:59:04 +0000tnt1(~Thunderbi@user/tnt1) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2025-02-21 13:59:22 +0000ft(~ft@p4fc2a610.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) ft
2025-02-21 14:00:55 +0000tnt1(~Thunderbi@user/tnt1) tnt1
2025-02-21 14:01:59 +0000tnt2(~Thunderbi@user/tnt1) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2025-02-21 14:02:47 +0000atwm(~andrew@19-193-28-81.ftth.cust.kwaoo.net) atwm
2025-02-21 14:07:58 +0000alfiee(~alfiee@user/alfiee) alfiee
2025-02-21 14:08:08 +0000aforemny(~aforemny@2001:9e8:6ce5:b500:7db1:2fa8:db14:9933) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2025-02-21 14:08:19 +0000aforemny_(~aforemny@2001:9e8:6ceb:2900:89c2:a944:ac4b:d32) aforemny
2025-02-21 14:09:23 +0000kuribas(~user@ip-188-118-57-242.reverse.destiny.be) (Quit: ERC 5.5.0.29.1 (IRC client for GNU Emacs 29.3))
2025-02-21 14:12:05 +0000alfiee(~alfiee@user/alfiee) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2025-02-21 14:21:37 +0000euleritian(~euleritia@ip4d17fae8.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2025-02-21 14:22:41 +0000euleritian(~euleritia@dynamic-176-006-128-236.176.6.pool.telefonica.de)
2025-02-21 14:25:25 +0000tnt1(~Thunderbi@user/tnt1) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2025-02-21 14:25:37 +0000acidjnk(~acidjnk@p200300d6e7283f0735af0e4522a01c1a.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2025-02-21 14:26:04 +0000tnt1(~Thunderbi@user/tnt1) tnt1
2025-02-21 14:28:39 +0000vanishingideal(~vanishing@user/vanishingideal) (Quit: Lost terminal)
2025-02-21 14:48:49 +0000lxsameer(~lxsameer@Serene/lxsameer) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2025-02-21 14:50:09 +0000Googulator57(~Googulato@81.183.235.203) (Quit: Client closed)
2025-02-21 14:50:25 +0000Googulator57(~Googulato@81.183.235.203)
2025-02-21 14:52:33 +0000jespada(~jespada@2800:a4:223d:ab00:6d03:599e:2fec:ccc) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2025-02-21 14:53:05 +0000acidjnk(~acidjnk@p200300d6e7283f0735af0e4522a01c1a.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) acidjnk
2025-02-21 14:55:17 +0000Square(~Square@user/square) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2025-02-21 14:55:19 +0000jespada(~jespada@2800:a4:2333:3900:1407:8a3c:a07b:1690) jespada
2025-02-21 14:55:42 +0000alfiee(~alfiee@user/alfiee) alfiee
2025-02-21 14:58:14 +0000atwm(~andrew@19-193-28-81.ftth.cust.kwaoo.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2025-02-21 14:59:16 +0000atwm(~andrew@19-193-28-81.ftth.cust.kwaoo.net) atwm
2025-02-21 15:00:04 +0000alfiee(~alfiee@user/alfiee) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2025-02-21 15:01:16 +0000kuribas(~user@ip-188-118-57-242.reverse.destiny.be)
2025-02-21 15:03:45 +0000atwm(~andrew@19-193-28-81.ftth.cust.kwaoo.net) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2025-02-21 15:08:51 +0000tnt2(~Thunderbi@user/tnt1) tnt1
2025-02-21 15:09:09 +0000tnt1(~Thunderbi@user/tnt1) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2025-02-21 15:09:09 +0000tnt2tnt1
2025-02-21 15:10:10 +0000atwm(~andrew@19-193-28-81.ftth.cust.kwaoo.net) atwm
2025-02-21 15:14:58 +0000atwm(~andrew@19-193-28-81.ftth.cust.kwaoo.net) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2025-02-21 15:16:46 +0000atwm(~andrew@19-193-28-81.ftth.cust.kwaoo.net) atwm
2025-02-21 15:18:01 +0000tnt2(~Thunderbi@user/tnt1) tnt1
2025-02-21 15:18:02 +0000gmg(~user@user/gehmehgeh) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-02-21 15:19:08 +0000tnt1(~Thunderbi@user/tnt1) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2025-02-21 15:19:09 +0000tnt2tnt1
2025-02-21 15:21:13 +0000atwm(~andrew@19-193-28-81.ftth.cust.kwaoo.net) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2025-02-21 15:23:41 +0000machinedgod(~machinedg@d108-173-18-100.abhsia.telus.net) machinedgod
2025-02-21 15:24:11 +0000alexherbo2(~alexherbo@2a02-8440-3502-9d3c-f555-3665-277a-d92b.rev.sfr.net)
2025-02-21 15:24:37 +0000alexherbo2(~alexherbo@2a02-8440-3502-9d3c-f555-3665-277a-d92b.rev.sfr.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-02-21 15:25:28 +0000alexherbo2(~alexherbo@2a02-8440-3502-9d3c-f555-3665-277a-d92b.rev.sfr.net) alexherbo2
2025-02-21 15:25:28 +0000MyNetAz(~MyNetAz@user/MyNetAz) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-02-21 15:28:48 +0000atwm(~andrew@19-193-28-81.ftth.cust.kwaoo.net) atwm
2025-02-21 15:32:25 +0000lxsameer(~lxsameer@Serene/lxsameer) lxsameer
2025-02-21 15:32:29 +0000MyNetAz(~MyNetAz@user/MyNetAz) MyNetAz
2025-02-21 15:32:53 +0000ljdarj(~Thunderbi@user/ljdarj) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2025-02-21 15:33:17 +0000alexherbo2(~alexherbo@2a02-8440-3502-9d3c-f555-3665-277a-d92b.rev.sfr.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-02-21 15:33:36 +0000alexherbo2(~alexherbo@2a02-8440-3502-9d3c-f555-3665-277a-d92b.rev.sfr.net) alexherbo2
2025-02-21 15:33:40 +0000Sgeo(~Sgeo@user/sgeo) Sgeo
2025-02-21 15:34:10 +0000atwm(~andrew@19-193-28-81.ftth.cust.kwaoo.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2025-02-21 15:36:32 +0000atwm(~andrew@19-193-28-81.ftth.cust.kwaoo.net) atwm
2025-02-21 15:38:30 +0000sprotte24(~sprotte24@p200300d16f15cb0045bb3ddcfddbb48e.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Quit: Leaving)
2025-02-21 15:40:26 +0000gmg(~user@user/gehmehgeh) gehmehgeh
2025-02-21 15:41:48 +0000ash3en(~Thunderbi@2a03:7846:b6eb:101:93ac:a90a:da67:f207) ash3en
2025-02-21 15:43:17 +0000atwm(~andrew@19-193-28-81.ftth.cust.kwaoo.net) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2025-02-21 15:43:26 +0000alfiee(~alfiee@user/alfiee) alfiee
2025-02-21 15:43:49 +0000vpan(~vpan@212.117.1.172) (Quit: Leaving.)
2025-02-21 15:48:11 +0000alfiee(~alfiee@user/alfiee) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2025-02-21 15:50:26 +0000machinedgod(~machinedg@d108-173-18-100.abhsia.telus.net) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2025-02-21 15:55:37 +0000atwm(~andrew@19-193-28-81.ftth.cust.kwaoo.net) atwm
2025-02-21 16:01:32 +0000dostoyevsky2(~sck@user/dostoyevsky2) (Quit: leaving)
2025-02-21 16:01:48 +0000dostoyevsky2(~sck@user/dostoyevsky2) dostoyevsky2
2025-02-21 16:03:19 +0000acidjnk(~acidjnk@p200300d6e7283f0735af0e4522a01c1a.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2025-02-21 16:04:12 +0000misterfish(~misterfis@31-161-39-137.biz.kpn.net) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2025-02-21 16:10:21 +0000euleritian(~euleritia@dynamic-176-006-128-236.176.6.pool.telefonica.de) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2025-02-21 16:10:44 +0000jespada(~jespada@2800:a4:2333:3900:1407:8a3c:a07b:1690) (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2025-02-21 16:11:39 +0000euleritian(~euleritia@dynamic-176-000-016-229.176.0.pool.telefonica.de)
2025-02-21 16:15:30 +0000chele(~chele@user/chele) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-02-21 16:16:20 +0000tnt2(~Thunderbi@user/tnt1) tnt1
2025-02-21 16:16:30 +0000stiell(~stiell@gateway/tor-sasl/stiell) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-02-21 16:16:52 +0000stiell(~stiell@gateway/tor-sasl/stiell) stiell
2025-02-21 16:17:14 +0000tnt1(~Thunderbi@user/tnt1) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2025-02-21 16:17:15 +0000tnt2tnt1
2025-02-21 16:29:43 +0000zeroyin
2025-02-21 16:31:10 +0000alfiee(~alfiee@user/alfiee) alfiee
2025-02-21 16:32:17 +0000jespada(~jespada@2800:a4:2333:3900:1407:8a3c:a07b:1690) jespada
2025-02-21 16:35:09 +0000alfiee(~alfiee@user/alfiee) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2025-02-21 16:44:47 +0000ljdarj(~Thunderbi@user/ljdarj) ljdarj
2025-02-21 16:59:39 +0000comerijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-02-21 17:02:07 +0000tnt2(~Thunderbi@user/tnt1) tnt1
2025-02-21 17:02:10 +0000kuribas(~user@ip-188-118-57-242.reverse.destiny.be) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2025-02-21 17:02:32 +0000merijn(~merijn@77.242.116.146) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2025-02-21 17:03:16 +0000tnt1(~Thunderbi@user/tnt1) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2025-02-21 17:03:16 +0000tnt2tnt1
2025-02-21 17:05:28 +0000comerijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2025-02-21 17:08:55 +0000f8(~f8@103.110.48.243)
2025-02-21 17:09:14 +0000tnt2(~Thunderbi@user/tnt1) tnt1
2025-02-21 17:09:45 +0000 <f8> yo this is something very cool just joined the irc channel using libre chat and hexchat
2025-02-21 17:10:21 +0000tnt1(~Thunderbi@user/tnt1) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2025-02-21 17:12:23 +0000tnt1(~Thunderbi@user/tnt1) tnt1
2025-02-21 17:13:05 +0000 <f8> how to communicate on this
2025-02-21 17:13:09 +0000 <f8> ?
2025-02-21 17:13:49 +0000f8(~f8@103.110.48.243) (Quit: Leaving)
2025-02-21 17:13:58 +0000tnt2(~Thunderbi@user/tnt1) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2025-02-21 17:15:04 +0000 <haskellbridge> <me7itamen> hmm just text
2025-02-21 17:15:05 +0000 <EvanR> by waiting over 1 minute before rage quitting
2025-02-21 17:15:39 +0000atwm(~andrew@19-193-28-81.ftth.cust.kwaoo.net) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2025-02-21 17:17:10 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-02-21 17:17:17 +0000forell(~forell@user/forell) forell
2025-02-21 17:17:49 +0000atwm(~andrew@19-193-28-81.ftth.cust.kwaoo.net) atwm
2025-02-21 17:18:54 +0000alfiee(~alfiee@user/alfiee) alfiee
2025-02-21 17:21:00 +0000wootehfoot(~wootehfoo@user/wootehfoot) wootehfoot
2025-02-21 17:23:50 +0000alfiee(~alfiee@user/alfiee) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2025-02-21 17:26:12 +0000sord937(~sord937@gateway/tor-sasl/sord937) (Quit: sord937)
2025-02-21 17:26:50 +0000tnt2(~Thunderbi@user/tnt1) tnt1
2025-02-21 17:26:55 +0000tnt1(~Thunderbi@user/tnt1) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2025-02-21 17:26:56 +0000tnt2tnt1
2025-02-21 17:27:27 +0000CiaoSen(~Jura@ip-037-201-240-075.um10.pools.vodafone-ip.de) CiaoSen
2025-02-21 17:33:44 +0000kuribas(~user@2a02:1808:4:96b:a85c:5e3d:e634:e80) kuribas
2025-02-21 17:33:52 +0000tzh(~tzh@c-76-115-131-146.hsd1.or.comcast.net) tzh
2025-02-21 17:36:10 +0000lxsameer(~lxsameer@Serene/lxsameer) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2025-02-21 17:50:40 +0000 <int-e> Well, IRC is dead, as we all know. :-P
2025-02-21 17:53:42 +0000alexherbo2(~alexherbo@2a02-8440-3502-9d3c-f555-3665-277a-d92b.rev.sfr.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-02-21 17:53:50 +0000aforemny_(~aforemny@2001:9e8:6ceb:2900:89c2:a944:ac4b:d32) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2025-02-21 17:53:56 +0000aforemny(~aforemny@2001:9e8:6cec:4900:d13e:fad4:1558:93ab) aforemny
2025-02-21 17:54:06 +0000Square(~Square@user/square) Square
2025-02-21 17:54:12 +0000alexherbo2(~alexherbo@2a02-8440-3502-9d3c-f555-3665-277a-d92b.rev.sfr.net) alexherbo2
2025-02-21 17:56:33 +0000tnt2(~Thunderbi@user/tnt1) tnt1
2025-02-21 17:57:40 +0000vanishingideal(~vanishing@user/vanishingideal) vanishingideal
2025-02-21 17:57:53 +0000tnt1(~Thunderbi@user/tnt1) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2025-02-21 17:57:55 +0000tnt2tnt1
2025-02-21 18:01:11 +0000jespada(~jespada@2800:a4:2333:3900:1407:8a3c:a07b:1690) (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2025-02-21 18:01:57 +0000kuribas(~user@2a02:1808:4:96b:a85c:5e3d:e634:e80) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2025-02-21 18:05:59 +0000alfiee(~alfiee@user/alfiee) alfiee
2025-02-21 18:06:10 +0000Googulator57(~Googulato@81.183.235.203) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2025-02-21 18:07:21 +0000euphores(~SASL_euph@user/euphores) (Quit: Leaving.)
2025-02-21 18:09:28 +0000tdslrapts^(~tdslrapts@108.192.66.114) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-02-21 18:09:46 +0000dsrt^(~dsrt@108.192.66.114) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2025-02-21 18:17:47 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-02-21 18:20:12 +0000jespada(~jespada@2800:a4:2333:3900:1407:8a3c:a07b:1690) jespada
2025-02-21 18:21:10 +0000euphores(~SASL_euph@user/euphores) euphores
2025-02-21 18:24:04 +0000acidjnk(~acidjnk@p200300d6e7283f074d733f5a370ae1a6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) acidjnk
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2025-02-21 18:28:25 +0000ljdarj(~Thunderbi@user/ljdarj) ljdarj
2025-02-21 18:30:08 +0000tnt2(~Thunderbi@user/tnt1) tnt1
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2025-02-21 18:30:52 +0000comerijn(~merijn@77.242.116.146) merijn
2025-02-21 18:31:18 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2025-02-21 18:31:40 +0000peterbecich(~Thunderbi@syn-047-229-123-186.res.spectrum.com) peterbecich
2025-02-21 18:34:34 +0000tnt1(~Thunderbi@user/tnt1) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2025-02-21 18:34:42 +0000tnt2(~Thunderbi@user/tnt1) tnt1
2025-02-21 18:36:34 +0000JuanDaugherty(~juan@user/JuanDaugherty) JuanDaugherty
2025-02-21 18:36:46 +0000euleritian(~euleritia@dynamic-176-000-016-229.176.0.pool.telefonica.de) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2025-02-21 18:36:51 +0000 <Rembane> The good kind of dead.
2025-02-21 18:37:00 +0000tnt2tnt1
2025-02-21 18:37:48 +0000euleritian(~euleritia@dynamic-176-000-005-023.176.0.pool.telefonica.de)
2025-02-21 18:38:26 +0000 <JuanDaugherty> counterfactuals are good, apparently
2025-02-21 18:38:29 +0000hattckory(~hattckory@149.102.242.103) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2025-02-21 18:40:30 +0000jespada(~jespada@2800:a4:2333:3900:1407:8a3c:a07b:1690) (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2025-02-21 18:42:34 +0000zmt01(~zmt00@user/zmt00) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2025-02-21 18:45:14 +0000euleritian(~euleritia@dynamic-176-000-005-023.176.0.pool.telefonica.de) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2025-02-21 18:45:34 +0000Lord_of_Life_(~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915) Lord_of_Life
2025-02-21 18:46:06 +0000euleritian(~euleritia@ip4d17fae8.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de)
2025-02-21 18:46:12 +0000Lord_of_Life(~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2025-02-21 18:46:58 +0000Lord_of_Life_Lord_of_Life
2025-02-21 18:48:21 +0000 <Rembane> JuanDaugherty: How are they good?
2025-02-21 18:48:50 +0000 <JuanDaugherty> u tell me, it's ur assertion
2025-02-21 18:48:56 +0000peterbecich(~Thunderbi@syn-047-229-123-186.res.spectrum.com) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2025-02-21 18:49:23 +0000 <JuanDaugherty> (what 'apparently' signifies in appostiion)
2025-02-21 18:49:24 +0000bitdex(~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2025-02-21 18:53:03 +0000alfiee(~alfiee@user/alfiee) alfiee
2025-02-21 18:53:11 +0000L29Ah(~L29Ah@wikipedia/L29Ah) ()
2025-02-21 18:55:08 +0000 <Rembane> Oh. It was a comment to "Well, IRC is dead, as we all know. :-P"
2025-02-21 18:55:37 +0000 <JuanDaugherty> i know
2025-02-21 18:56:11 +0000 <JuanDaugherty> bonk bonk on the heads of the stupids
2025-02-21 18:57:12 +0000stiell(~stiell@gateway/tor-sasl/stiell) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2025-02-21 18:57:33 +0000stiell(~stiell@gateway/tor-sasl/stiell) stiell
2025-02-21 18:57:34 +0000alfiee(~alfiee@user/alfiee) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2025-02-21 18:59:08 +0000 <JuanDaugherty> https://netsplit.de/networks/top100.php maybe dead means the ignorant masses dont want none
2025-02-21 18:59:26 +0000 <dolio> That would be a good kind of dead.
2025-02-21 19:00:46 +0000hattckory(~hattckory@149.102.242.103)
2025-02-21 19:00:56 +0000misterfish(~misterfis@84.53.85.146) misterfish
2025-02-21 19:04:17 +0000iteratee(~kyle@162.218.222.207) iteratee
2025-02-21 19:05:33 +0000hattckory(~hattckory@149.102.242.103) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
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2025-02-21 19:08:01 +0000L29Ah(~L29Ah@wikipedia/L29Ah) L29Ah
2025-02-21 19:09:03 +0000tnt2(~Thunderbi@user/tnt1) tnt1
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2025-02-21 19:20:01 +0000SlackCoder(~SlackCode@161.199.132.228) SlackCoder
2025-02-21 19:21:00 +0000SlackCoder(~SlackCode@161.199.132.228) (Client Quit)
2025-02-21 19:22:09 +0000 <monochrom> haha yikes
2025-02-21 19:22:11 +0000bitdex(~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex) bitdex
2025-02-21 19:22:39 +0000ephilalethes(~noumenon@2001:d08:1a00:bc0:aa7e:eaff:fede:ff94) noumenon
2025-02-21 19:22:49 +0000JuanDaugherty(~juan@user/JuanDaugherty) (Quit: praxis.meansofproduction.biz (juan@acm.org))
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2025-02-21 20:00:05 +0000caconym(~caconym@user/caconym) (Quit: bye)
2025-02-21 20:00:45 +0000caconym(~caconym@user/caconym) caconym
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2025-02-21 20:28:31 +0000alfiee(~alfiee@user/alfiee) alfiee
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2025-02-21 20:31:39 +0000tnt2(~Thunderbi@user/tnt1) tnt1
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2025-02-21 20:36:46 +0000weary-traveler(~user@user/user363627) user363627
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2025-02-21 20:39:15 +0000aforemny(~aforemny@2001:9e8:6cec:f800:32fe:36cc:ea74:2a67) aforemny
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2025-02-21 20:42:51 +0000tnt1(~Thunderbi@user/tnt1) tnt1
2025-02-21 20:44:59 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-02-21 20:47:20 +0000ash3en(~Thunderbi@2a03:7846:b6eb:101:93ac:a90a:da67:f207) ash3en
2025-02-21 20:47:48 +0000comerijn(~merijn@77.242.116.146) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2025-02-21 20:49:20 +0000fp1(~Thunderbi@87-94-153-62.rev.dnainternet.fi) fp
2025-02-21 20:50:20 +0000L29Ah(~L29Ah@wikipedia/L29Ah) ()
2025-02-21 20:50:36 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2025-02-21 20:52:13 +0000tnt2(~Thunderbi@user/tnt1) tnt1
2025-02-21 20:53:09 +0000vanishingideal(~vanishing@user/vanishingideal) vanishingideal
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2025-02-21 20:54:32 +0000ash3en(~Thunderbi@2a03:7846:b6eb:101:93ac:a90a:da67:f207) (Quit: ash3en)
2025-02-21 20:56:56 +0000tnt2(~Thunderbi@user/tnt1) tnt1
2025-02-21 20:57:53 +0000tnt1(~Thunderbi@user/tnt1) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
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2025-02-21 21:02:34 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-02-21 21:02:42 +0000kimiamania8(~65804703@user/kimiamania) (Quit: PegeLinux)
2025-02-21 21:03:05 +0000kimiamania8(~65804703@user/kimiamania) kimiamania
2025-02-21 21:03:38 +0000wootehfoot(~wootehfoo@user/wootehfoot) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2025-02-21 21:06:06 +0000tnt2(~Thunderbi@user/tnt1) tnt1
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2025-02-21 21:07:02 +0000atwm(~andrew@19-193-28-81.ftth.cust.kwaoo.net) atwm
2025-02-21 21:08:00 +0000L29Ah(~L29Ah@wikipedia/L29Ah) L29Ah
2025-02-21 21:09:18 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
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2025-02-21 21:11:01 +0000tnt1(~Thunderbi@user/tnt1) tnt1
2025-02-21 21:13:01 +0000ephilalethes(~noumenon@2001:d08:1a00:bc0:aa7e:eaff:fede:ff94) (Quit: Leaving)
2025-02-21 21:13:20 +0000ephilalethes(~noumenon@2001:d08:1a00:bc0:aa7e:eaff:fede:ff94) noumenon
2025-02-21 21:13:38 +0000Patternmaster(~georg@user/Patternmaster) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2025-02-21 21:13:53 +0000Patternmaster(~georg@user/Patternmaster) Patternmaster
2025-02-21 21:14:55 +0000tnt2(~Thunderbi@user/tnt1) tnt1
2025-02-21 21:14:55 +0000target_i(~target_i@user/target-i/x-6023099) target_i
2025-02-21 21:15:35 +0000alfiee(~alfiee@user/alfiee) alfiee
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2025-02-21 21:20:36 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-02-21 21:20:53 +0000atwm(~andrew@19-193-28-81.ftth.cust.kwaoo.net) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2025-02-21 21:21:13 +0000tnt2(~Thunderbi@user/tnt1) tnt1
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2025-02-21 21:29:50 +0000hughjfchen(~hughjfche@vmi2417424.contaboserver.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2025-02-21 21:29:56 +0000sixfourtwelve(~ethanmorg@82.18.82.103) sixfourtwelve
2025-02-21 21:30:15 +0000hughjfchen(~hughjfche@vmi2417424.contaboserver.net) hughjfchen
2025-02-21 21:30:20 +0000Unicorn_Princess(~Unicorn_P@user/Unicorn-Princess/x-3540542) Unicorn_Princess
2025-02-21 21:33:01 +0000atwm(~andrew@19-193-28-81.ftth.cust.kwaoo.net) atwm
2025-02-21 21:37:09 +0000sixfourtwelve(~ethanmorg@82.18.82.103) (Quit: leaving)
2025-02-21 21:37:33 +0000sixfourtwelve(~ethanmorg@82.18.82.103)
2025-02-21 21:37:53 +0000atwm(~andrew@19-193-28-81.ftth.cust.kwaoo.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2025-02-21 21:45:09 +0000tnt1(~Thunderbi@user/tnt1) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2025-02-21 21:48:42 +0000atwm(~andrew@19-193-28-81.ftth.cust.kwaoo.net) atwm
2025-02-21 21:48:46 +0000 <yin> i wish it was less dead tbh
2025-02-21 21:56:52 +0000ephilalethes(~noumenon@2001:d08:1a00:bc0:aa7e:eaff:fede:ff94) (Quit: Leaving)
2025-02-21 21:59:49 +0000j1n37-(~j1n37@user/j1n37) j1n37
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2025-02-21 22:02:40 +0000alfiee(~alfiee@user/alfiee) alfiee
2025-02-21 22:06:59 +0000Googulator57(~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-0c81-8032-422f-4c4d-33bd.pool6.digikabel.hu)
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2025-02-21 22:24:50 +0000peterbecich(~Thunderbi@syn-047-229-123-186.res.spectrum.com) peterbecich
2025-02-21 22:27:51 +0000hattckory(~hattckory@149.102.242.103)
2025-02-21 22:29:05 +0000misterfish(~misterfis@84.53.85.146) misterfish
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2025-02-21 22:36:01 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
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2025-02-21 22:44:38 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2025-02-21 22:44:55 +0000chiselfuse(~chiselfus@user/chiselfuse) chiselfuse
2025-02-21 22:45:00 +0000ec(~ec@gateway/tor-sasl/ec) ec
2025-02-21 22:45:09 +0000ChaiTRex(~ChaiTRex@user/chaitrex) ChaiTRex
2025-02-21 22:46:29 +0000Googulator57(~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-0c81-8032-422f-4c4d-33bd.pool6.digikabel.hu) (Quit: Client closed)
2025-02-21 22:46:44 +0000Googulator57(~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-0c81-8032-422f-4c4d-33bd.pool6.digikabel.hu)
2025-02-21 22:47:19 +0000atwm(~andrew@19-193-28-81.ftth.cust.kwaoo.net) atwm
2025-02-21 22:47:20 +0000 <haskellbridge> <sm> it's more dispersed now
2025-02-21 22:47:34 +0000 <haskellbridge> <sm> maybe Pidgin can integrate all the chats again these days ?
2025-02-21 22:48:15 +0000 <haskellbridge> <sm> +(https://www.pidgin.im)
2025-02-21 22:48:28 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-02-21 22:48:39 +0000 <haskellbridge> <sm> or https://www.beeper.com
2025-02-21 22:48:55 +0000 <haskellbridge> <magic_rb> Beeper is just standardish matrix
2025-02-21 22:49:14 +0000 <haskellbridge> <magic_rb> All of their bridges are open source actually
2025-02-21 22:49:21 +0000 <talismanick> When checking the code for derived instances via `ghc -ddump-deriv`, it can be a chore to search-replace noise like namespace qualifiers and autogenerated line noise variable names
2025-02-21 22:49:29 +0000 <haskellbridge> <sm> ...with all the gnarly bridges configured and maintained for you
2025-02-21 22:49:45 +0000alfiee(~alfiee@user/alfiee) alfiee
2025-02-21 22:49:51 +0000 <talismanick> which, if I were running `ghc` normally to desugar, would be a problem solved by calling out to `ghc-core` instead
2025-02-21 22:49:55 +0000 <talismanick> as https://stackoverflow.com/questions/10693638/how-to-dump-ghc-simplifier-output-in-human-readable-f… suggests
2025-02-21 22:50:11 +0000 <talismanick> but I don't see how to run ghc-core with `-ddump-deriv`
2025-02-21 22:51:01 +0000misterfish(~misterfis@84.53.85.146) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2025-02-21 22:51:32 +0000hattckory(~hattckory@149.102.242.103)
2025-02-21 22:52:06 +0000 <haskellbridge> <magic_rb> sm eeh its not _that_ to maintain. The facebook bridge fell apart for me because i ignored it for 6 months, but the discord one has been 0% maintenance for the last 2 years
2025-02-21 22:52:12 +0000 <haskellbridge> <magic_rb> Anyway, offtopic
2025-02-21 22:52:32 +0000atwm(~andrew@19-193-28-81.ftth.cust.kwaoo.net) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2025-02-21 22:53:09 +0000 <monochrom> Does -dsuppress-all help?
2025-02-21 22:53:26 +0000 <talismanick> monochrom: I was about to say that -dsuppress-module-prefixes -dsuppress-uniques didn't work lol
2025-02-21 22:53:31 +0000 <talismanick> let me try with -dsuppress-all
2025-02-21 22:54:29 +0000alfiee(~alfiee@user/alfiee) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2025-02-21 22:54:46 +0000 <talismanick> hm, prints nothing
2025-02-21 22:55:03 +0000 <talismanick> I have to go now, but I'll have to dig deeper later
2025-02-21 22:58:13 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2025-02-21 22:59:14 +0000hattckory(~hattckory@149.102.242.103) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2025-02-21 23:00:38 +0000 <haskellbridge> <sm> magic_rb that's cool. I notice "Beeper is free to use, with an optional paid subscription." - that also sounds pretty cool I must say
2025-02-21 23:00:53 +0000atwm(~andrew@19-193-28-81.ftth.cust.kwaoo.net) atwm
2025-02-21 23:01:18 +0000weary-traveler(~user@user/user363627) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-02-21 23:01:34 +0000 <haskellbridge> <magic_rb> I havent tried beeper personally. I wouldnt want to trust a 3rd party with my messaging
2025-02-21 23:01:46 +0000 <haskellbridge> <magic_rb> Especially if im bridging everything through it.
2025-02-21 23:02:04 +0000 <haskellbridge> <sm> how many bridges are you running, and where are they - on a vps ?
2025-02-21 23:02:12 +0000 <haskellbridge> <magic_rb> But i dont have anything against beeper, so i mention them
2025-02-21 23:02:55 +0000 <haskellbridge> <magic_rb> sm: Currently 2, used to do 3 but then facebook and signal fell apart because beeper did a complete rewrite and i just couldnt be bothered
2025-02-21 23:03:20 +0000 <haskellbridge> <magic_rb> Facebook i dont use anymore and signal is a bad idea for security. WhatsApp needs an active phone anyway, VMs get you banned
2025-02-21 23:04:23 +0000 <haskellbridge> <magic_rb> As for the hardware im running it on a full server with 80GB (my sticks keep failing, used to be 96, ill have to get new ones) with 2 cpus, 6 cores per of 3.1GHz (3rd gen ish intel xeon)
2025-02-21 23:05:10 +0000 <haskellbridge> <sm> wow.. is that much power needed ?
2025-02-21 23:05:24 +0000 <haskellbridge> <sm> * ram
2025-02-21 23:05:50 +0000 <haskellbridge> <magic_rb> But your main bottleneck if you do run this wont be the bridges but rather the matrix homeserver. You have 5 options, synapse - heavy, reliable, dendrite - light, broken beyond belief, conduit - light, slow progress, conduwuit - light, possibly toxic maintainer, grapevine - light and i dunno
2025-02-21 23:06:14 +0000 <haskellbridge> <magic_rb> Synapse i in python, dendrite in go, conduit, conduwuit and grapevine are forks of each other, all in rust
2025-02-21 23:06:46 +0000 <haskellbridge> <magic_rb> Im running synapse because i have the hardware and its the most reliable and drama free. Conduit got forked at least twice over drama
2025-02-21 23:06:54 +0000 <haskellbridge> <sm> when do we get the rock solid haskell homeserver...
2025-02-21 23:07:49 +0000 <geekosaur> I've offered a couple of times but HF seems uninterested
2025-02-21 23:07:50 +0000 <haskellbridge> <magic_rb> And no you dont need as much power as i have, especially if you dont run synapse. But even with it im giving it too much memory, its possible to tune and run on just 4GB of memory, i just threw more ram at it because i couldnt be arsed to tune it
2025-02-21 23:08:06 +0000 <haskellbridge> <magic_rb> Writing a matrix HS is insanely difficult
2025-02-21 23:08:19 +0000 <haskellbridge> <magic_rb> And tbh i dont think haskell would solve much
2025-02-21 23:09:12 +0000atwm(~andrew@19-193-28-81.ftth.cust.kwaoo.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2025-02-21 23:09:17 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-02-21 23:09:30 +0000 <haskellbridge> <magic_rb> As in, i dont think there is a tangible benefit to using haskell for a HS, most of the complexity lies in implementing the whole spec, the stateres algorithm and actually making the internal data model fast
2025-02-21 23:09:33 +0000 <geekosaur> oh, misunderstood. no I'm not interested in writing one
2025-02-21 23:09:39 +0000 <geekosaur> in Haskell or any other language
2025-02-21 23:09:40 +0000 <haskellbridge> <magic_rb> Ah
2025-02-21 23:10:03 +0000 <haskellbridge> <magic_rb> Saying to run one ig, sorry, i see RIIH everywhere these days lol
2025-02-21 23:10:07 +0000 <geekosaur> Matris protocol is nuts
2025-02-21 23:10:38 +0000 <haskellbridge> <sm> it could be a good reference / research implementation. In future, auto translate it to rust or something for better efficiency
2025-02-21 23:10:52 +0000 <haskellbridge> <magic_rb> sm if you decide to try to run your own HS, whichever you choose. Feel free to ping me for help
2025-02-21 23:11:29 +0000 <haskellbridge> <magic_rb> Pretty sure haskell is fast enough. The best way to speed up synapse which is in python, is to speed up the database, postgres
2025-02-21 23:11:53 +0000 <haskellbridge> <sm> everyone struggles to write a matrix server it seems, haskell should be among the best languages for the writing/maintaining part at least (not necessarily the efficiency/operating at scale part)
2025-02-21 23:12:31 +0000weary-traveler(~user@user/user363627) user363627
2025-02-21 23:12:39 +0000 <haskellbridge> <magic_rb> Im gonna focus on my haskell filesystem for now, then maybe something else in haskell
2025-02-21 23:12:41 +0000ensyde(~ensyde@70-33-158-82.unassigned.ntelos.net) ensyde
2025-02-21 23:13:49 +0000 <haskellbridge> <sm> geekosaur: Complex ?
2025-02-21 23:14:35 +0000 <haskellbridge> <magic_rb> The state res is the worst, as in, the way possibly divergent event graphs are merged
2025-02-21 23:14:40 +0000noxp(~ensyde@2600:381:df29:528d:5c12:4661:6233:7eba) noxp
2025-02-21 23:15:04 +0000 <geekosaur> byzantine
2025-02-21 23:15:05 +0000 <haskellbridge> <sm> tricky algorithms should be our bread and butter
2025-02-21 23:15:10 +0000 <haskellbridge> <magic_rb> Say you have 8 HSs in a room, 4 split off for 4 days but the users in them can still communicate between themselves
2025-02-21 23:15:19 +0000 <haskellbridge> <sm> I hear state resolution algorithm v3 is coming
2025-02-21 23:15:26 +0000 <haskellbridge> <magic_rb> Then after they all rejoin, stateres happens where it has to merge again
2025-02-21 23:15:40 +0000 <haskellbridge> <magic_rb> And that part is the buggiest part of matrix afaik
2025-02-21 23:16:15 +0000 <haskellbridge> <magic_rb> If you hear "split brain" its a stateres bug, where room state permanently diverges and different servers see and advertise different state.
2025-02-21 23:16:43 +0000 <haskellbridge> <magic_rb> Effect is that people might not see each others messages. You might get rejoined into a room you left, because the leave event disappears
2025-02-21 23:17:13 +0000ensyde_(~ensyde@70-33-158-82.unassigned.ntelos.net)
2025-02-21 23:17:46 +0000 <haskellbridge> <magic_rb> And other fun things, dunno much about the actual impl, just what i heard while hanging out in matrix dev adjacent rooms
2025-02-21 23:18:18 +0000 <haskellbridge> <sm> Yes.. I look forward to v3. There's a nifty state visualiser now which must be a help
2025-02-21 23:18:35 +0000 <haskellbridge> <sm> I imagine another hard part of building a matrix server is the cryptography, eg availability of the right good libraries.
2025-02-21 23:18:44 +0000ensyde(~ensyde@70-33-158-82.unassigned.ntelos.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2025-02-21 23:19:07 +0000 <haskellbridge> <sm> And another part must be the amount of data to be managed, though you could restrict that
2025-02-21 23:20:26 +0000 <haskellbridge> <sm> To be honest, with bridges out of the picture I rarely see state resolution / split brain issues on matrix. (I see it more often on irc, or used to)
2025-02-21 23:20:31 +0000 <haskellbridge> <magic_rb> Crypto is largely a client side thing only, https is ofc server side, but e2ee is completely client side
2025-02-21 23:20:44 +0000 <haskellbridge> <sm> oh interesting, that's good news
2025-02-21 23:21:08 +0000 <haskellbridge> <magic_rb> And for e2ee youll have to bind against vodozemac which is in rust
2025-02-21 23:21:30 +0000noxp(~ensyde@2600:381:df29:528d:5c12:4661:6233:7eba) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2025-02-21 23:21:40 +0000 <haskellbridge> <magic_rb> Im planning to try to shoehorn vodozemac into ement.el (emacs matrix client) to get e2ee
2025-02-21 23:23:21 +0000 <haskellbridge> <magic_rb> Anyway, sleep time
2025-02-21 23:24:29 +0000 <haskellbridge> <sm> see you
2025-02-21 23:25:42 +0000peterbecich(~Thunderbi@syn-047-229-123-186.res.spectrum.com) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2025-02-21 23:32:04 +0000caconym(~caconym@user/caconym) (Quit: bye)
2025-02-21 23:33:22 +0000caconym(~caconym@user/caconym) caconym
2025-02-21 23:35:47 +0000 <haskellbridge> <Liamzee> lol
2025-02-21 23:35:49 +0000 <haskellbridge> <Liamzee> https://spectrum.ieee.org/reversible-computing
2025-02-21 23:35:54 +0000 <haskellbridge> <Liamzee> sounds eerily familiar
2025-02-21 23:36:49 +0000alfiee(~alfiee@user/alfiee) alfiee
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2025-02-21 23:49:32 +0000hattckory(~hattckory@149.102.242.103)
2025-02-21 23:56:34 +0000ljdarj1(~Thunderbi@user/ljdarj) ljdarj
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