2024/12/12

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2024-12-12 01:15:36 +0000 <haskellbridge> <sm> https://matrix.to/#/#haskell-irc:matrix.org
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2024-12-12 01:47:14 +0000Cattycatties
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2024-12-12 02:12:09 +0000 <dpratt> not at all sure about this, but it seems like this channel is currently less active than I've seen it in the past -- it just makes me wonder if there are other platforms where people are actively having real-time conversations about Haskell?
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2024-12-12 02:14:56 +0000 <geekosaur> matrix, but it's also been quieter than usual
2024-12-12 02:15:40 +0000 <geekosaur> that said, it is december and a lot of folks are on vacation/break/whatever, aside from aoc chatter (but much of that has moved to #adventofcode)
2024-12-12 02:16:56 +0000 <geekosaur> I'm not aware of a Haskell Discord room, so if people have been moving to one they've been keeping it to themselves
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2024-12-12 02:20:55 +0000yangby(~secret@125.121.168.11) yangby
2024-12-12 02:23:31 +0000 <haskellbridge> <sm> things are a bit more dispersed, yes. It does vary a lot by time of day as well as season
2024-12-12 02:24:05 +0000 <haskellbridge> <sm> and there are a rather a lot of topic-specific rooms now
2024-12-12 02:26:49 +0000MyNetAz(~MyNetAz@user/MyNetAz) MyNetAz
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2024-12-12 02:27:54 +0000 <dpratt> geekosaur ah, ok -- and I didn't realize there was an AoC specific channel, so thanks for that! :)
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2024-12-12 05:02:36 +0000 <Axman6> There's also the functional programming slack, which is moderately active (less so than here)
2024-12-12 05:04:43 +0000billchenchina(~billchenc@113.57.152.160) billchenchina
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2024-12-12 06:10:02 +0000CiaoSen(~Jura@2a05:5800:2c2:cc00:ca4b:d6ff:fec1:99da) CiaoSen
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2024-12-12 06:34:08 +0000housemate(~housemate@ppp203-122-213-191.static.internode.on.net) (Quit: Nothing to see here. I wasn't there. I take IRC seriously. https://files.catbox.moe/4e9k81.pdf)
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2024-12-12 06:50:47 +0000 <sm> @where+ dangerous-functions https://github.com/NorfairKing/haskell-dangerous-functions
2024-12-12 06:50:47 +0000 <lambdabot> It is stored.
2024-12-12 06:51:13 +0000 <sm> @where+ sustainable-haskell https://github.com/NorfairKing/syds-rules-for-sustainable-haskell
2024-12-12 06:51:13 +0000 <lambdabot> It is stored.
2024-12-12 06:53:18 +0000merijn(~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn
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2024-12-12 06:59:20 +0000 <sm> @where+ haskell-for-imperative-programmers https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLe7Ei6viL6jGp1Rfu0dil1JH1SHk9bgDV
2024-12-12 06:59:20 +0000 <lambdabot> I will remember.
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2024-12-12 07:24:24 +0000dy(sid3438@user/dy) \\\\\
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2024-12-12 07:24:24 +0000Enviosity_(~Enviosity@2.219.56.221)
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2024-12-12 07:24:24 +0000opqdonut(opqdonut@pseudo.fixme.fi)
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2024-12-12 07:24:25 +0000hacklschorsch(~flo@2a01:4f9:3a:2296::2)
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2024-12-12 07:24:25 +0000sand-witch(~m-mzmz6l@vmi833741.contaboserver.net)
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2024-12-12 07:24:28 +0000caconym(~caconym@user/caconym) (Max SendQ exceeded)
2024-12-12 07:24:28 +0000gvg(~dcd@user/gvg) (Max SendQ exceeded)
2024-12-12 07:24:48 +0000caconym(~caconym@user/caconym) caconym
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2024-12-12 10:49:14 +0000CiaoSen(~Jura@2a05:5800:2c2:cc00:ca4b:d6ff:fec1:99da) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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2024-12-12 10:53:36 +0000Unhammer(~Unhammer@user/unhammer) Unhammer
2024-12-12 10:54:35 +0000 <Unhammer> Hi, I'm using postgres-simple and one day saw my app going "libpq: failed (no connection to the server" on every request
2024-12-12 10:54:56 +0000 <Unhammer> and then I noticed from logs that on startup it had said 'SqlError {sqlState = "", sqlExecStatus = FatalError, sqlErrorMsg = "", sqlErrorDetail = "", sqlErrorHint = ""}'
2024-12-12 10:55:26 +0000 <Unhammer> restarting it fixed it, but it seems like the connection was never made on startup, but somehow the app didn't crash
2024-12-12 10:56:03 +0000 <Unhammer> I'm doing `conn <- PG.connectPostgreSQL connstr` before `Warp.run blah`
2024-12-12 10:56:19 +0000 <Unhammer> shouldn't connectPostgreSQL throw an error on SqlError?
2024-12-12 10:56:40 +0000zenmov(~zenmov@user/zenmov) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2024-12-12 10:57:00 +0000j1n37(~j1n37@user/j1n37) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2024-12-12 10:58:10 +0000merijn(~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn
2024-12-12 10:58:23 +0000zenmov(~zenmov@user/zenmov) zenmov
2024-12-12 10:58:40 +0000 <Unhammer> I mean, it errors out if I give it a fake connstr. But seems like there was some SqlError on that startup (with that very unhelpful sqlErrorMsg) that let it keep going
2024-12-12 11:00:15 +0000Batzy(~quassel@user/batzy) (https://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.)
2024-12-12 11:00:15 +0000lortabac(~lortabac@2a01:e0a:541:b8f0:55ab:e185:7f81:54a4) (Quit: WeeChat 4.4.2)
2024-12-12 11:00:56 +0000j1n37(~j1n37@user/j1n37) j1n37
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2024-12-12 11:06:06 +0000mari-estel(~mari-este@user/mari-estel) mari-estel
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2024-12-12 11:22:47 +0000 <Unhammer> Welp, I put the db connection in an ioref and added a `catch` reconnectAndRetryTheRequestHandlerOnce, hope that fixes it. Have no idea how to reproduce :-/
2024-12-12 11:32:41 +0000merijn(~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn
2024-12-12 11:34:29 +0000AlexZenon(~alzenon@5.139.233.0)
2024-12-12 11:35:12 +0000rvalue(~rvalue@user/rvalue) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2024-12-12 11:35:43 +0000rvalue(~rvalue@user/rvalue) rvalue
2024-12-12 11:38:06 +0000merijn(~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2024-12-12 11:39:22 +0000 <haskellbridge> <magic_rb> If your program encounters "no connection to the server" and keeps going, you have a problem. That should be a fatal error which causes a service restart i think
2024-12-12 11:39:33 +0000 <haskellbridge> <magic_rb> Its not like itll get any better if you encounter that
2024-12-12 11:44:16 +0000 <zzz> what are best resources to learn how to use parsr combinator libraries?
2024-12-12 11:46:07 +0000 <geekosaur> doesn't megaparsec come with a fairly complete tutorial?
2024-12-12 11:47:06 +0000SlackCoder(~SlackCode@64-94-63-8.ip.weststar.net.ky) SlackCoder
2024-12-12 11:50:03 +0000r-sta(~r-sta@sgyl-37-b2-v4wan-168528-cust2421.vm6.cable.virginm.net)
2024-12-12 11:50:23 +0000 <r-sta> help!!
2024-12-12 11:50:24 +0000 <r-sta> https://paste.tomsmeding.com/yMFHh8dN
2024-12-12 11:50:30 +0000 <r-sta> have least sufficient error
2024-12-12 11:50:34 +0000 <r-sta> so stumped on this!
2024-12-12 11:52:30 +0000 <r-sta> sorry paste had an unavailable import, this version reproduces the error
2024-12-12 11:52:31 +0000 <r-sta> https://paste.tomsmeding.com/z1EBfuiz
2024-12-12 11:53:38 +0000merijn(~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn
2024-12-12 11:54:30 +0000lortabac(~lortabac@2a01:e0a:541:b8f0:55ab:e185:7f81:54a4)
2024-12-12 11:55:56 +0000 <zzz> so it does. ty geekosaur
2024-12-12 11:57:57 +0000merijn(~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2024-12-12 11:58:07 +0000CiaoSen(~Jura@2a05:5800:2c2:cc00:ca4b:d6ff:fec1:99da) CiaoSen
2024-12-12 11:59:14 +0000merijn(~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn
2024-12-12 12:00:10 +0000caconym(~caconym@user/caconym) (Quit: bye)
2024-12-12 12:01:38 +0000caconym(~caconym@user/caconym) caconym
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2024-12-12 12:04:59 +0000 <r-sta> everything i try just ends up with these mad errors
2024-12-12 12:05:00 +0000 <r-sta> https://paste.tomsmeding.com/HbLvVfbo
2024-12-12 12:05:42 +0000 <r-sta> you give it a constraint, and it demands the constraint at an increased number
2024-12-12 12:05:54 +0000 <r-sta> but it shouldnt always, since sometimes it should match the basecase
2024-12-12 12:06:59 +0000sprotte24(~sprotte24@p200300d16f14d100917a50b1fa74278e.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2024-12-12 12:07:48 +0000merijn(~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2024-12-12 12:11:51 +0000Goodbye_Vincent1(cyvahl@freakshells.net)
2024-12-12 12:17:00 +0000rvalue-(~rvalue@user/rvalue) rvalue
2024-12-12 12:17:48 +0000rvalue(~rvalue@user/rvalue) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2024-12-12 12:18:19 +0000merijn(~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn
2024-12-12 12:22:51 +0000 <r-sta> this works, but it cant map the function that depends on the type
2024-12-12 12:22:51 +0000 <r-sta> https://paste.tomsmeding.com/nLYY8J6d
2024-12-12 12:22:58 +0000 <r-sta> i have to make a class for each function!
2024-12-12 12:23:01 +0000merijn(~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2024-12-12 12:23:11 +0000 <r-sta> each function to *map*
2024-12-12 12:23:22 +0000 <r-sta> far from polymorphic...
2024-12-12 12:23:47 +0000 <r-sta> i cant get the quantified constraint
2024-12-12 12:23:54 +0000 <r-sta> like, it sequences through a bunch of naturals
2024-12-12 12:24:06 +0000 <r-sta> and in order to recurse, has to pass a function that can depend on any natural
2024-12-12 12:24:22 +0000 <r-sta> i cant pass this function properly!
2024-12-12 12:24:43 +0000 <r-sta> it gets like, restricted to the type at the use site and i cant reinvigorate the recursive call with the polymorphic version from the class
2024-12-12 12:24:58 +0000rvalue-rvalue
2024-12-12 12:25:06 +0000 <r-sta> so instead of having to have a class to make the function polymorphic in the Nat
2024-12-12 12:25:29 +0000 <r-sta> now i have to combine the classes together because i cant pass the mapping argument retaining its polymorphicity through the Nat changing recursion
2024-12-12 12:25:31 +0000 <r-sta> !!!
2024-12-12 12:25:48 +0000 <r-sta> and these two classes combining just completely kills the notion of mapping
2024-12-12 12:26:19 +0000 <r-sta> each different mapped function, now not having its own Nat polymorphic class, but being combined with the thing that fails to do the map
2024-12-12 12:26:40 +0000 <r-sta> basically i cant do a higher order mapping function over nats using the quantified constraint for the nat polymorphic class function
2024-12-12 12:27:14 +0000 <r-sta> i have to write a fully recursive definition, without higher order functions, for each different function i want to map
2024-12-12 12:27:17 +0000 <r-sta> this sucks!
2024-12-12 12:29:11 +0000 <r-sta> can anyone explain to me how this could be handled if idk, quantified constraints worked properly or something?
2024-12-12 12:29:41 +0000 <r-sta> i definately feel like it should be able to do this
2024-12-12 12:31:56 +0000mari-estel(~mari-este@user/mari-estel) ()
2024-12-12 12:33:41 +0000merijn(~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn
2024-12-12 12:37:08 +0000notzmv(~umar@user/notzmv) notzmv
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2024-12-12 12:54:15 +0000weary-traveler(~user@user/user363627) user363627
2024-12-12 12:55:39 +0000AlexZenon(~alzenon@5.139.233.0) (Quit: ;-)
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2024-12-12 12:57:22 +0000homo(~homo@user/homo) (Quit: homo)
2024-12-12 12:58:13 +0000homo(~homo@user/homo) homo
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2024-12-12 13:01:02 +0000weary-traveler(~user@user/user363627) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2024-12-12 13:06:39 +0000TheCoffeMaker(~TheCoffeM@user/thecoffemaker) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2024-12-12 18:14:12 +0000 <KicksonButt> Inside a do block, let's say I have the line "x <- readLn". readLn is "readLn :: Read a => IO a". Does x get something of "a" type or of "IO a" type?
2024-12-12 18:14:49 +0000 <monochrom> a
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2024-12-12 18:34:34 +0000 <tomsmeding> if you already have f, g and t in use, what type variable does one use for an Applicative?
2024-12-12 18:35:29 +0000 <c_wraith> shake things up and use l
2024-12-12 18:35:38 +0000 <tomsmeding> :p
2024-12-12 18:35:51 +0000 <tomsmeding> for me, 'm' makes the most sense
2024-12-12 18:35:58 +0000 <monochrom> I haven't run into that situation, so I am more serious when I say: try h.
2024-12-12 18:36:06 +0000 <c_wraith> ah, darn. Off by one error.
2024-12-12 18:36:29 +0000 <monochrom> err, s/more/not/ !!!
2024-12-12 18:36:48 +0000 <tomsmeding> yeah 'h' is just confusing here :p
2024-12-12 18:37:04 +0000 <c_wraith> I think I've actually seen h
2024-12-12 18:37:10 +0000 <tomsmeding> it's a map-like function on a data type indexed by some functor f, so it takes a (forall t. f t -> g t)
2024-12-12 18:37:24 +0000 <tomsmeding> using 'h' for the Applicative (i.e. (forall t. f t -> h (g t))) would just be plain confusing
2024-12-12 18:37:37 +0000tromp(~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl)
2024-12-12 18:37:54 +0000mehlon__(~mehlon__@user/mehlon) mehlon
2024-12-12 18:38:09 +0000 <tomsmeding> before FAM, it would be a Monad anyway, so 'm' works fine for me, but given the suggestions it seems it's not as clear-cut as I thought :)
2024-12-12 18:38:12 +0000Tuplanolla(~Tuplanoll@91-159-69-59.elisa-laajakaista.fi) Tuplanolla
2024-12-12 18:38:43 +0000 <tomsmeding> (it's essentially HList)
2024-12-12 18:38:48 +0000 <monochrom> In another context, I actually preemptively use h so that f and g stay available. E.g., rev :: [a] -> [a] is a natural transformation, this means for all h, fmap h . rev = rev . fmap h. Now I can use f and g for something more important.
2024-12-12 18:39:13 +0000 <c_wraith> Like, I've seen people make statements like: Compose f (Compose g h) g === Compose (Compose f g) h a
2024-12-12 18:39:30 +0000 <tomsmeding> c_wraith: oh but that's just continuing the f,g sequence to the next letter
2024-12-12 18:39:40 +0000 <tomsmeding> here, the 'h' would be completely unrelated to f and g
2024-12-12 18:39:49 +0000 <c_wraith> err, pretend one of those 'g's is an a so it's correct. :)
2024-12-12 18:39:53 +0000 <tomsmeding> right
2024-12-12 18:40:12 +0000 <tomsmeding> slistMapA :: Applicative m => (forall t. f t -> m (g t)) -> HList f list -> m (HList g list)
2024-12-12 18:40:24 +0000 <monochrom> I am OK with m too.
2024-12-12 18:40:26 +0000mehlon__(~mehlon__@user/mehlon) (Remote host closed the connection)
2024-12-12 18:40:45 +0000 <tomsmeding> (forgot to change the function name, the thing is called SList here)
2024-12-12 18:41:25 +0000 <monochrom> Screw it, go with de Bruijn and be like: (>>=) :: Monad t0 => t0 t1 -> (t1 -> t0 t2) -> t0 t2.
2024-12-12 18:41:45 +0000 <tomsmeding> my ASTs are already De Bruijn
2024-12-12 18:41:52 +0000 <monochrom> :D
2024-12-12 18:41:55 +0000 <tomsmeding> I think that's enough indices in this codebase :p
2024-12-12 18:41:57 +0000 <monochrom> XD
2024-12-12 18:42:32 +0000 <monochrom> At some point one has to include Greek letters too.
2024-12-12 18:42:44 +0000tv(~tv@user/tv) tv
2024-12-12 18:42:54 +0000tzh(~tzh@c-76-115-131-146.hsd1.or.comcast.net)
2024-12-12 18:42:55 +0000 <monochrom> The Lean people do that without hesitation.
2024-12-12 18:43:08 +0000 <tomsmeding> use φ for the Applicative? :p
2024-12-12 18:43:13 +0000merijn(~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn
2024-12-12 18:43:34 +0000 <tomsmeding> Agda people are equally liberal
2024-12-12 18:44:47 +0000mari-estel(~mari-este@user/mari-estel) ()
2024-12-12 18:45:11 +0000 <monochrom> They're like: id :: (α : Type u) -> (a : α) -> α. They don't even worry about "a" and "α" looking too much alike.
2024-12-12 18:45:43 +0000rekahsoft(~rekahsoft@76.69.85.220) rekahsoft
2024-12-12 18:45:51 +0000 <tomsmeding> do they also do that to 'o'?
2024-12-12 18:46:17 +0000 <monochrom> On the up side, this means that example has not used up "t".
2024-12-12 18:46:26 +0000 <tomsmeding> o ∘ ο
2024-12-12 18:46:30 +0000 <monochrom> I haven't seen them using o.
2024-12-12 18:46:40 +0000 <tomsmeding> (those are three different symbols)
2024-12-12 18:47:34 +0000merijn(~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2024-12-12 18:49:40 +0000dpratt(~dpratt@165.225.220.148) dpratt
2024-12-12 18:51:20 +0000 <monochrom> SML actually uses the English letter o for function composition, infix! You write "f o g". In general, SML allows you to declare an alphabetical name infix, then you just go ahead use it infix without extra notation. Another example: Our "a || b" becomes their "a orelse b".
2024-12-12 18:51:36 +0000 <monochrom> "It reads like English, so it's easy to debug."
2024-12-12 18:51:48 +0000 <tomsmeding> does the operator declaration need to precede the usage?
2024-12-12 18:52:02 +0000 <monochrom> I think yes.
2024-12-12 18:52:19 +0000 <tomsmeding> so it doesn't go about re-parsing application chains :p
2024-12-12 18:52:39 +0000 <monochrom> I don't actually know. Didn't read the standard carefully. Just never saw people doing otherwise.
2024-12-12 18:52:39 +0000 <tomsmeding> (like how GHC re-parses operator trees after it has collected all operator declarations)
2024-12-12 18:53:07 +0000 <tomsmeding> that "It reads like English" has to be sarcastic
2024-12-12 18:53:14 +0000 <tomsmeding> look at AppleScript, very readable!
2024-12-12 18:53:37 +0000 <monochrom> Yeah. Have you seen that youtube video promoting COBOL? The quote came from there.
2024-12-12 18:53:54 +0000 <tomsmeding> I have not, and I'm not sure if I want to
2024-12-12 18:55:33 +0000 <monochrom> Then again Haskell people don't normally abuse the validity to declare something 28 years later.
2024-12-12 18:57:14 +0000 <monochrom> (Yesterday at the cinema I was really surprised that the [28-days-later, 28-weeks-later] dare to make the next sequel, 28 Years Later!)
2024-12-12 18:57:14 +0000Unhammer(~Unhammer@user/unhammer) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2024-12-12 18:57:38 +0000 <monochrom> (What's next, 28 Centuries Later?!)
2024-12-12 18:57:54 +0000tomsmedingis out of the loop
2024-12-12 18:58:19 +0000OftenFaded91(~OftenFade@user/tisktisk) OftenFaded
2024-12-12 18:58:28 +0000 <monochrom> Oh it's just more excuses for making moar zombie movies. :)
2024-12-12 18:58:34 +0000merijn(~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn
2024-12-12 18:58:34 +0000 <tomsmeding> ah :p
2024-12-12 19:00:15 +0000jespada(~jespada@cpc121308-nmal25-2-0-cust15.19-2.cable.virginm.net) (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2024-12-12 19:01:12 +0000lxsameer(~lxsameer@Serene/lxsameer) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2024-12-12 19:02:04 +0000 <monochrom> The 28-days-later's premise is this. A person was sick/injured and went into a coma for 28 days. When he woke, it's a zombie world. (It's also just the island nation of Britain, the sea saved the rest of the world.) Then the sequels are just continuations of the human-zombie struggle.
2024-12-12 19:02:48 +0000 <tomsmeding> oh, the Brits again
2024-12-12 19:02:51 +0000merijn(~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2024-12-12 19:04:19 +0000 <monochrom> On the plus side, that 28-days-coma guy was Cillian Murphy.
2024-12-12 19:05:28 +0000machinedgod(~machinedg@d108-173-18-100.abhsia.telus.net) machinedgod
2024-12-12 19:06:21 +0000merijn(~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn
2024-12-12 19:06:31 +0000Sgeo(~Sgeo@user/sgeo) Sgeo
2024-12-12 19:08:38 +0000rekahsoft(~rekahsoft@76.69.85.220) (Remote host closed the connection)
2024-12-12 19:11:10 +0000merijn(~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2024-12-12 19:11:56 +0000sprotte24(~sprotte24@p200300d16f14d100e5c9a68ab6a328e8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2024-12-12 19:14:25 +0000 <int-e> where's the symmetric difference in Data.Set when you want it :-/
2024-12-12 19:14:50 +0000 <monochrom> :)
2024-12-12 19:15:28 +0000 <tomsmeding> @pl \a b -> (a `union` b) `difference` (a `intersect` b)
2024-12-12 19:15:28 +0000 <lambdabot> ap (ap . (difference .) . union) intersect
2024-12-12 19:15:33 +0000 <tomsmeding> surely one can do better than that
2024-12-12 19:15:41 +0000 <int-e> I went with sd s s' = (s `S.difference` s') `S.union` (s' `S.difference` s)
2024-12-12 19:16:39 +0000 <int-e> I'm not using it heavily enough to see a performance, wait for it, difference.
2024-12-12 19:17:07 +0000 <tomsmeding> curry (difference <$> uncurry union <*> uncurry intersection)
2024-12-12 19:17:10 +0000 <tomsmeding> there, much better
2024-12-12 19:17:26 +0000 <[exa]> I think there's no possibility to really skip any elements in either incomming set when computing the symmetric difference, right? in that case you might be much better off doing `toAscList` and running the symmetric difference on the sorted lists.
2024-12-12 19:19:05 +0000dpratt(~dpratt@165.225.220.148) (Quit: Client closed)
2024-12-12 19:19:33 +0000vanishingideal(~vanishing@user/vanishingideal) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2024-12-12 19:19:44 +0000 <[exa]> (the asymmetric S.difference can tree-skip elements of the 2nd parameter when the first parameter is sparse, which substantiates it because that may be much more efficient than doing with just lists)
2024-12-12 19:21:40 +0000merijn(~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn
2024-12-12 19:21:42 +0000vanishingideal(~vanishing@user/vanishingideal) vanishingideal
2024-12-12 19:22:23 +0000OftenFaded91(~OftenFade@user/tisktisk) (Quit: Client closed)
2024-12-12 19:22:46 +0000OftenFaded8(~OftenFade@user/tisktisk) OftenFaded
2024-12-12 19:24:45 +0000 <int-e> [exa]: It's just weird to have one of the 8 reasonable set-combining functions missing from Data.Set. (3 of these are boring: S.empty, pick left set, pick right set; the other 5 are intersection, union, difference (either way), and the symmetric difference)
2024-12-12 19:25:29 +0000 <int-e> but I guess it's easy to implement and not often useful
2024-12-12 19:25:34 +0000califax(~califax@user/califx) (Remote host closed the connection)
2024-12-12 19:25:46 +0000dpratt(~dpratt@165.225.220.148) dpratt
2024-12-12 19:25:57 +0000 <monochrom> If I may say that the union algorithm (or the intersection algorithm, or the difference algorithm) is "single pass" in some sense, then that algorithm can be easily changed for symmetric difference and remain single-pass. It is still better than going through 3 single-pass operations.
2024-12-12 19:25:58 +0000 <dolio> I've definitely wanted it before.
2024-12-12 19:26:02 +0000merijn(~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2024-12-12 19:26:49 +0000califax(~califax@user/califx) califx
2024-12-12 19:27:16 +0000 <monochrom> I actually had fun inflicting^W teaching that algorithm in a 2nd-year data structure course. >:)
2024-12-12 19:27:18 +0000 <[exa]> monochrom: union is IIRC `"copy" and insert`. I think all of these can somehow avoid the whole pass.
2024-12-12 19:27:48 +0000 <monochrom> No, see the paper https://arxiv.org/abs/1602.02120v3 cited in the doc.
2024-12-12 19:28:04 +0000 <monochrom> It's why the very funny time bound.
2024-12-12 19:28:14 +0000 <[exa]> ahhhhh okaaaaaay
2024-12-12 19:29:39 +0000 <monochrom> The tl;dr is "divide and conquer" but that's easier said than done, so you may still need to briefly see the paper for "but how? in what sense?"
2024-12-12 19:30:43 +0000tromp(~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2024-12-12 19:31:47 +0000ljdarj1(~Thunderbi@user/ljdarj) ljdarj
2024-12-12 19:32:04 +0000acidjnk_new(~acidjnk@p200300d6e7283f3760eda8a464161486.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) acidjnk
2024-12-12 19:33:34 +0000 <monochrom> You know what, alternatively, I have already made slides for it: http://www.cs.utoronto.ca/~trebla/tmp/03-avlunion-l.pdf
2024-12-12 19:33:39 +0000ljdarj(~Thunderbi@user/ljdarj) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2024-12-12 19:33:40 +0000ljdarj1ljdarj
2024-12-12 19:34:36 +0000 <int-e> :t M.mergeWithKey
2024-12-12 19:34:37 +0000 <lambdabot> Ord k => (k -> a -> b -> Maybe c) -> (M.Map k a -> M.Map k c) -> (M.Map k b -> M.Map k c) -> M.Map k a -> M.Map k b -> M.Map k c
2024-12-12 19:35:01 +0000 <int-e> (that function can express it if you use `M.Map k ()` instead of `S.Set k`)
2024-12-12 19:35:05 +0000 <monochrom> Yeah basically we need a mergeWithKey for Set.
2024-12-12 19:35:52 +0000 <int-e> (and more, since it can filter keys)
2024-12-12 19:37:02 +0000merijn(~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn
2024-12-12 19:37:24 +0000 <monochrom> My slides includes only union, intersect, subtract. This is, of course, because I leave sym diff for assignment! >:D
2024-12-12 19:41:41 +0000merijn(~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2024-12-12 19:41:48 +0000simplystuart(~simplystu@c-75-75-152-164.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2024-12-12 19:45:25 +0000rekahsoft(~rekahsoft@bras-base-orllon1103w-grc-06-76-69-85-220.dsl.bell.ca) rekahsoft
2024-12-12 19:50:46 +0000weary-traveler(~user@user/user363627) (Remote host closed the connection)
2024-12-12 19:51:49 +0000 <EvanR> student is handed the assignment and they object "haskell doesn't have assignments"
2024-12-12 19:52:16 +0000peterbecich(~Thunderbi@syn-047-229-123-186.res.spectrum.com) peterbecich
2024-12-12 19:52:26 +0000merijn(~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn
2024-12-12 19:53:36 +0000 <int-e> EvanR: how eager, they should put it in a thunk and forget about it until asked to hand it in
2024-12-12 19:55:02 +0000simplystuart(~simplystu@c-75-75-152-164.hsd1.pa.comcast.net)
2024-12-12 19:55:13 +0000sord937(~sord937@gateway/tor-sasl/sord937) (Quit: sord937)
2024-12-12 19:55:15 +0000dpratt(~dpratt@165.225.220.148) (Quit: Client closed)
2024-12-12 19:55:23 +0000A_DragonFestive
2024-12-12 19:56:45 +0000merijn(~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2024-12-12 19:58:00 +0000 <monochrom> Haha
2024-12-12 19:58:04 +0000pabs3(~pabs3@user/pabs3) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2024-12-12 19:59:01 +0000pabs3(~pabs3@user/pabs3) pabs3
2024-12-12 20:00:01 +0000caconym(~caconym@user/caconym) (Quit: bye)
2024-12-12 20:00:37 +0000caconym(~caconym@user/caconym) caconym
2024-12-12 20:01:21 +0000 <EvanR> been there. When forced to hand it in, I hit rock bottom
2024-12-12 20:02:19 +0000 <int-e> Anyway, this is what I wanted a symmetric difference for: (AoC spoiler) https://paste.tomsmeding.com/2cdLDMEN
2024-12-12 20:02:43 +0000lxsameer(~lxsameer@Serene/lxsameer) lxsameer
2024-12-12 20:04:51 +0000peterbecich(~Thunderbi@syn-047-229-123-186.res.spectrum.com) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2024-12-12 20:07:18 +0000merijn(~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn
2024-12-12 20:07:41 +0000 <iqubic> @src unfoldr
2024-12-12 20:07:41 +0000 <lambdabot> unfoldr f b = case f b of
2024-12-12 20:07:41 +0000 <lambdabot> Just (a, b') -> a : unfoldr f b'
2024-12-12 20:07:41 +0000 <lambdabot> Nothing -> []
2024-12-12 20:08:02 +0000 <iqubic> Yep... I literally rewrote unfoldr myself last night
2024-12-12 20:13:58 +0000 <EvanR> for you next task implement unfoldl
2024-12-12 20:14:04 +0000merijn(~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2024-12-12 20:14:24 +0000 <EvanR> your
2024-12-12 20:14:28 +0000 <int-e> for snoc lists?
2024-12-12 20:14:37 +0000 <EvanR> regular list xD
2024-12-12 20:15:27 +0000 <iqubic> How would unfoldl work?
2024-12-12 20:16:16 +0000 <iqubic> Does Data.Seq have unfoldl and unfoldr?
2024-12-12 20:16:17 +0000 <iqubic> Does Data.Seq have unfoldl and unfoldr?
2024-12-12 20:16:19 +0000 <iqubic> Does Data.Seq have unfoldl and unfoldr?
2024-12-12 20:16:21 +0000 <iqubic> Does Data.Seq have unfoldl and unfoldr?
2024-12-12 20:16:24 +0000 <int-e> unfoldl :: (r -> Maybe (r, a)) -> x -> [a]
2024-12-12 20:16:29 +0000 <EvanR> it would undo foldl!
2024-12-12 20:16:31 +0000dpratt(~dpratt@165.225.220.148) dpratt
2024-12-12 20:16:35 +0000 <int-e> s/x/r/
2024-12-12 20:16:46 +0000 <int-e> xenaming is too hard.
2024-12-12 20:16:57 +0000 <iqubic> LOL!
2024-12-12 20:17:22 +0000 <EvanR> guessing it won't be very efficient
2024-12-12 20:17:55 +0000 <iqubic> Proably not.
2024-12-12 20:18:26 +0000 <int-e> :t Seq.unfoldl
2024-12-12 20:18:27 +0000 <lambdabot> (b -> Maybe (b, a)) -> b -> Seq.Seq a
2024-12-12 20:18:28 +0000 <int-e> :t Seq.unfoldr
2024-12-12 20:18:29 +0000 <lambdabot> (b -> Maybe (a, b)) -> b -> Seq.Seq a
2024-12-12 20:20:06 +0000 <int-e> > Seq.take 5 (Seq.unfoldr (\() -> Just ((),())) ()) -- this is too much to hope for though
2024-12-12 20:20:12 +0000 <lambdabot> mueval-core: Time limit exceeded
2024-12-12 20:21:09 +0000 <EvanR> semantically, would there be an answer to that even
2024-12-12 20:21:23 +0000 <EvanR> I mean, the showing of the first element at least
2024-12-12 20:21:32 +0000 <int-e> > take 5 (unfoldr (\() -> Just ((),())) ())
2024-12-12 20:21:33 +0000 <lambdabot> [(),(),(),(),()]
2024-12-12 20:21:43 +0000 <EvanR> oh you did unfoldr
2024-12-12 20:22:10 +0000 <EvanR> Seq underwhelms again
2024-12-12 20:22:23 +0000 <int-e> This proves that Seq is strictly worse than lists.
2024-12-12 20:22:30 +0000 <EvanR> lolololol
2024-12-12 20:25:21 +0000merijn(~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn
2024-12-12 20:27:34 +0000califax(~califax@user/califx) (Remote host closed the connection)
2024-12-12 20:29:50 +0000merijn(~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2024-12-12 20:31:08 +0000califax(~califax@user/califx) califx
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2024-12-12 20:36:11 +0000OftenFaded(~OftenFade@user/tisktisk) OftenFaded
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2024-12-12 20:39:07 +0000__jmcantrell__(~weechat@user/jmcantrell) jmcantrell
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2024-12-12 20:39:51 +0000OftenFaded(~OftenFade@user/tisktisk) OftenFaded
2024-12-12 20:40:44 +0000merijn(~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn
2024-12-12 20:41:28 +0000weary-traveler(~user@user/user363627) user363627
2024-12-12 20:41:38 +0000Digit(~user@user/digit) Digit
2024-12-12 20:42:17 +0000__jmcantrell__(~weechat@user/jmcantrell) (Client Quit)
2024-12-12 20:45:51 +0000merijn(~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2024-12-12 20:54:44 +0000troydm(~troydm@user/troydm) troydm
2024-12-12 20:56:06 +0000merijn(~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn
2024-12-12 20:57:00 +0000rstromlund(~user@user/rstromlund) rstromlund
2024-12-12 20:59:27 +0000 <rstromlund> glguy, I got my haskell-mode working w/ interactive sessions. I'd guessed there had to be a way for the mode to correlate the hs file w/ a target. It is `haskell-session-change-target`; it can use TAB completion to select the target. That seems to have fixed all my issues. Thanks for looking things over.
2024-12-12 20:59:56 +0000 <glguy> rstromlund: Does that mean you have to manually set it each time or does it remember?
2024-12-12 21:00:38 +0000merijn(~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2024-12-12 21:01:22 +0000Smiles(uid551636@id-551636.lymington.irccloud.com) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2024-12-12 21:01:28 +0000dpratt(~dpratt@165.225.220.148) (Quit: Client closed)
2024-12-12 21:03:36 +0000troydm(~troydm@user/troydm) (Quit: What is Hope? That all of your wishes and all of your dreams come true? To turn back time because things were not supposed to happen like that (C) Rau Le Creuset)
2024-12-12 21:05:22 +0000__jmcantrell__(~weechat@user/jmcantrell) jmcantrell
2024-12-12 21:05:48 +0000jmcantrellGuest7434
2024-12-12 21:05:48 +0000Guest7434(644f1bed9a@user/jmcantrell) (Killed (copper.libera.chat (Nickname regained by services)))
2024-12-12 21:05:48 +0000__jmcantrell__jmcantrell
2024-12-12 21:05:58 +0000jmcantrell_(644f1bed9a@user/jmcantrell) jmcantrell
2024-12-12 21:09:14 +0000 <Leary> tomsmeding: Personally, I won't use `t` for anything but `Traversable` or `m` for anything but `Monad`. It's gotta be `h`! In fact I already have this sitting around: `htraverse :: Applicative g => (forall x. c x => f x -> g (h x)) -> HList c f xs -> g (HList c h xs)`.
2024-12-12 21:10:26 +0000 <Leary> Re symmetric difference, the `Set` operation I've wanted several times is actually `differences :: Ord a => Set a -> Set a -> (Set a, Set a)` or even `venn :: Ord a => Set a -> Set a -> (Set a, Set a, Set a)` where `venn a b = (a \ b, a /\ b, b \ a)` but faster.
2024-12-12 21:11:13 +0000 <rstromlund> I haven't restarted emacs, but I don't think it remembers. This only effects multi-executable cabals. If there is 1 target, then it figures it all out. I suppose w/o a target set, that is why it spammed all targets. It just didn't know. So as I progress from day-2-day, I have to update my target.
2024-12-12 21:11:17 +0000 <jle`> tomsmeding: there was that one blog post recently, a list of common one-letter haskell variable names
2024-12-12 21:11:20 +0000 <jle`> and their conventions
2024-12-12 21:11:28 +0000merijn(~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn
2024-12-12 21:11:53 +0000 <rstromlund> When I get some time, I am going to look into if there is an auto-target mechanism or not.
2024-12-12 21:12:11 +0000 <tomsmeding> Leary: yeah 't' is a bad choice for Applicative for sure
2024-12-12 21:12:40 +0000 <Leary> jle`, tomsmeding: Indeed; jackdk's http://jackkelly.name/blog/archives/2024/10/12/a_dictionary_of_single-letter_variable_names/
2024-12-12 21:12:44 +0000 <tomsmeding> but that f->h transform with a 'g' applicative is certainly daring!
2024-12-12 21:13:26 +0000 <Leary> It's a coin toss for me whethere `g` and `h` should be swapped there.
2024-12-12 21:13:27 +0000 <tomsmeding> Leary: do you really fundamentally see monads and applicative functors as distinct things?
2024-12-12 21:13:31 +0000 <tomsmeding> do you use them for different purposes?
2024-12-12 21:13:46 +0000 <jle`> Leary: thanks!
2024-12-12 21:14:11 +0000 <tomsmeding> jle`: right, I'd seen that one, but I remember reading through it and thinking, at all entries, "yeah that roughly corresponds to how I'd use them"
2024-12-12 21:14:18 +0000 <tomsmeding> so nothing new learned, in my case :p
2024-12-12 21:14:31 +0000 <tomsmeding> except for stuff I never use anyway, I guess
2024-12-12 21:14:55 +0000 <jle`> in that case, you are probably on the cusp of where convention ends :')
2024-12-12 21:15:04 +0000 <tomsmeding> I have never consciously used a type that is Applicative but not Monad for effects
2024-12-12 21:15:05 +0000 <monochrom> Hot take: (<*>) :: Applicative a => a (α -> β) -> a α -> a β.
2024-12-12 21:15:47 +0000 <jle`> i usually use applicatives-but-not-monads for accumulating stuff
2024-12-12 21:16:02 +0000merijn(~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2024-12-12 21:16:13 +0000 <jle`> i've used q as a *->* before, it seems to be devoid of meaning enough
2024-12-12 21:16:14 +0000 <tomsmeding> like error accumulation, Validation style?
2024-12-12 21:16:21 +0000 <jle`> tomsmeding: like Writer w, Const w
2024-12-12 21:16:27 +0000 <tomsmeding> but those are monads!
2024-12-12 21:16:37 +0000 <monochrom> But mine just converts the real issue to "I have used up a and b for two Applicative instances, I have a 3rd one, should I call it c?" :)
2024-12-12 21:16:38 +0000 <tomsmeding> sure I use <$> <*> all the time too
2024-12-12 21:16:42 +0000 <jle`> ah yeah i would use them but not for their Monad instances
2024-12-12 21:17:00 +0000 <jle`> like for functions that are polymorphic over all Applicatives. like traversals in lens
2024-12-12 21:17:01 +0000 <tomsmeding> monochrom: no that's a category ;)
2024-12-12 21:17:08 +0000 <monochrom> :( XD
2024-12-12 21:17:34 +0000 <tomsmeding> jle`: sure, if I write a function like the above that needs only Applicative, I dutifully give it the more general constraint. But I've never actually _used_ that
2024-12-12 21:17:48 +0000 <tomsmeding> I guess the one time might be that time I tried out optparse-applicative
2024-12-12 21:17:50 +0000 <jle`> it happens a lot with optics
2024-12-12 21:18:02 +0000 <Leary> tomsmeding: I kinda do? It's not really a matter of what the tyvar is ultimately instantiated at (and whether or not it also has `Monad`), they're just separate concepts in the abstract. `Applicative`s for `traverse`-like things and non-ordered things, `Monad`s for sequencing.
2024-12-12 21:18:18 +0000 <monochrom> Compactness Theorem for Identifiers: Every convention runs out of letters in finite time.
2024-12-12 21:18:27 +0000tomsmedingdoesn't use lenses/optics, perhaps that's the problem
2024-12-12 21:18:37 +0000 <tomsmeding> Leary: I guess
2024-12-12 21:18:44 +0000 <tomsmeding> that makes sense
2024-12-12 21:18:52 +0000 <jle`> i mean it's not quite a "problem" :)
2024-12-12 21:19:01 +0000 <tomsmeding> :p
2024-12-12 21:19:09 +0000 <jle`> you have less problems than people who do use optics/lenses for sure
2024-12-12 21:19:18 +0000 <tomsmeding> sounds like a certain regex joke
2024-12-12 21:19:23 +0000 <monochrom> Wait, have you considered the extended convention ff, fg, gf, gg?
2024-12-12 21:19:39 +0000 <tomsmeding> monochrom: can always go Excel style, aa ab
2024-12-12 21:19:43 +0000 <jle`> haha
2024-12-12 21:19:46 +0000jmcantrell(~weechat@user/jmcantrell) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2024-12-12 21:19:46 +0000jmcantrell_jmcantrell
2024-12-12 21:19:46 +0000 <monochrom> Yeah, like that.
2024-12-12 21:19:58 +0000 <monochrom> Excellent
2024-12-12 21:20:00 +0000 <jle`> yeah if i have multiple f/g's and they get transformed then f' and g' make sense
2024-12-12 21:20:09 +0000 <tomsmeding> ooh
2024-12-12 21:20:29 +0000 <tomsmeding> hlistMap :: Applicative f => (forall t. g t -> g' t) -> HList g list -> f (HList g' list)
2024-12-12 21:20:35 +0000 <jle`> bihoist :: (forall x. f x -> f' x) -> (forall x. g x -> g' x) -> q f g a -> q f' g' a
2024-12-12 21:20:51 +0000 <tomsmeding> I still don't like the fact that this makes it look like f and g are related (they aren't at all)
2024-12-12 21:21:10 +0000 <tomsmeding> yeah with that bihoist it makes perfect sense
2024-12-12 21:21:27 +0000 <jle`> ah yeah i guess there's the unfortunate f and g association
2024-12-12 21:21:29 +0000 <tomsmeding> because f and g are related
2024-12-12 21:21:46 +0000 <tomsmeding> (they are similar, and the same kind of thing is done to them)
2024-12-12 21:22:34 +0000 <tomsmeding> monochrom: re your compactness theorem: perhaps we should go java
2024-12-12 21:22:49 +0000 <jle`> yeah i throw in q sometimes for that
2024-12-12 21:22:54 +0000 <jle`> like i just did naturally there
2024-12-12 21:23:01 +0000 <jle`> s/naturally/without thinking
2024-12-12 21:23:07 +0000 <tomsmeding> hlistMap :: Applicative applicative => (forall typ. sourceFunctor typ -> targetFunctor typ) -> HList sourceFunctor list -> applicative (HList targetFunctor list)
2024-12-12 21:23:10 +0000 <tomsmeding> not sure what to make of typ
2024-12-12 21:23:39 +0000 <tomsmeding> jle`: I was assuming that 'q' made some sense in context :)
2024-12-12 21:23:40 +0000 <jle`> hlistMap :: Applicative f => (forall x. q x -> q' x) -> HList q as -> f (HList q' as)
2024-12-12 21:23:52 +0000 <tomsmeding> I... guess?
2024-12-12 21:24:31 +0000 <tomsmeding> it works
2024-12-12 21:24:35 +0000 <jle`> surely there should be some HKD conventions...but i think they are mostly f/g
2024-12-12 21:24:42 +0000 <tomsmeding> which clash here :p
2024-12-12 21:24:52 +0000 <jle`> i'm trying to look in other HKD libraries
2024-12-12 21:25:03 +0000 <tomsmeding> I'm not sure this is really worth >10mins of discussion
2024-12-12 21:25:47 +0000 <jle`> lol this library uses e for the Applicative
2024-12-12 21:25:49 +0000 <jle`> https://hackage.haskell.org/package/barbies-2.1.1.0/docs/Data-Functor-Barbie.html#v:btraverse
2024-12-12 21:25:51 +0000 <jle`> i really do not like that
2024-12-12 21:25:59 +0000 <tomsmeding> https://github.com/eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee/eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee…
2024-12-12 21:26:12 +0000 <jle`> i mean i am not morally opposed to it, i just wouldn't have thought of it
2024-12-12 21:26:20 +0000 <jle`> i guess 'e' makes sense in that it comes before 'f' lol
2024-12-12 21:26:36 +0000 <tomsmeding> but it doesn't even come before f in the type, it comes before g!
2024-12-12 21:26:51 +0000merijn(~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn
2024-12-12 21:27:05 +0000 <jle`> btraverse :: Applicative e => (forall a. f a -> e (g a)) -> b f -> e (b g)
2024-12-12 21:27:13 +0000 <tomsmeding> I guess it makes sense that in a library like this you _have_ to choose some distinct letter
2024-12-12 21:28:32 +0000rekahsoft(~rekahsoft@bras-base-orllon1103w-grc-06-76-69-85-220.dsl.bell.ca) (Remote host closed the connection)
2024-12-12 21:28:35 +0000 <jle`> tomsmeding: i meant that it's like "e, f, g": e is the 0th functor mentioned, f is the 1st functor mentioned, g is the 2nd functor mentioned
2024-12-12 21:28:41 +0000 <jle`> forall f g. vs forall e f g.
2024-12-12 21:28:44 +0000 <jle`> has a bit of a rhyme to it
2024-12-12 21:28:44 +0000 <tomsmeding> I know :p
2024-12-12 21:28:55 +0000 <jle`> i'm in board now
2024-12-12 21:28:59 +0000 <jle`> on board
2024-12-12 21:29:05 +0000 <tomsmeding> en board?
2024-12-12 21:29:27 +0000 <jle`> just kidding though, it'd be like using `w` for a *-typed variable before x
2024-12-12 21:29:34 +0000 <jle`> which ... i guess they do in math sometimes?
2024-12-12 21:29:44 +0000 <tomsmeding> xyzwuv ordering?
2024-12-12 21:29:53 +0000 <jle`> i've always used w :: * for monoids although i don't really know why
2024-12-12 21:30:10 +0000 <tomsmeding> because you Write to it?
2024-12-12 21:30:23 +0000 <jle`> ah yeah that makes sense
2024-12-12 21:30:37 +0000 <jle`> i was also thinking m would clash with Monads and w is an upside-down m
2024-12-12 21:30:43 +0000 <pja> Is there a haskell aoc channel this year?
2024-12-12 21:30:45 +0000 <jle`> that's why w is the convention for comonads i guess ...
2024-12-12 21:30:46 +0000 <tomsmeding> w is also Comonad
2024-12-12 21:30:49 +0000 <geekosaur> I've certainly seen xyzw in multiple contexts, usually with some mathematical context (e.g. physics)
2024-12-12 21:30:52 +0000 <tomsmeding> (which I've never ever used)
2024-12-12 21:31:12 +0000 <geekosaur> and fwiw I always just use a with Monoid because what's the point?
2024-12-12 21:31:26 +0000merijn(~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2024-12-12 21:31:41 +0000 <jle`> foldMap :: Monoid b => (a -> b) -> f a -> b ? feels mrong
2024-12-12 21:31:51 +0000 <tomsmeding> :t foldMap
2024-12-12 21:31:52 +0000 <lambdabot> (Foldable t, Monoid m) => (a -> m) -> t a -> m
2024-12-12 21:32:13 +0000 <tomsmeding> look at them unashamedly using 'm'
2024-12-12 21:32:29 +0000 <geekosaur> ah, but base is semi-famous for using m for both Monoid and Monad
2024-12-12 21:32:48 +0000 <geekosaur> usually m is prefix for Monoid, but see mzero
2024-12-12 21:32:55 +0000 <monochrom> I have to extend that to stuvwxyz because when I present a proof of why Dijkstra's shortest path algorithm is correct, there are too many vertices in consideration.
2024-12-12 21:33:05 +0000 <geekosaur> consistency is not base's strongest suit
2024-12-12 21:33:58 +0000tomsmedingis just going to use 'Applicative m' and darn it all :)
2024-12-12 21:34:11 +0000 <tomsmeding> certainly not 'e'
2024-12-12 21:34:17 +0000 <int-e> you could use m'and'darn'it'all
2024-12-12 21:34:23 +0000 <tomsmeding> I could
2024-12-12 21:34:31 +0000 <geekosaur> "thingy"
2024-12-12 21:34:45 +0000 <int-e> fuzzyThingy
2024-12-12 21:34:55 +0000rekahsoft(~rekahsoft@bras-base-orllon1103w-grc-06-76-69-85-220.dsl.bell.ca) rekahsoft
2024-12-12 21:34:57 +0000 <tomsmeding> notQuiteFuzzyThingy
2024-12-12 21:35:06 +0000 <tomsmeding> would be more accurate
2024-12-12 21:35:25 +0000 <int-e> furlessMonad?
2024-12-12 21:35:52 +0000 <tomsmeding> let's abbreviate that to 'furl'
2024-12-12 21:36:01 +0000 <tomsmeding> good name for an applicative
2024-12-12 21:36:03 +0000 <int-e> . o O ( purr :: Applicative f => a -> f a )
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2024-12-12 21:42:14 +0000merijn(~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn
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2024-12-12 21:45:53 +0000SlackCoder(~SlackCode@64-94-63-8.ip.weststar.net.ky) (Quit: Leaving)
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2024-12-12 21:58:17 +0000mange(~user@user/mange) mange
2024-12-12 22:00:16 +0000merijn(~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn
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2024-12-12 22:05:11 +0000machinedgod(~machinedg@d108-173-18-100.abhsia.telus.net) (Quit: Lost terminal)
2024-12-12 22:06:18 +0000rekahsoft(~rekahsoft@bras-base-orllon1103w-grc-06-76-69-85-220.dsl.bell.ca) rekahsoft
2024-12-12 22:10:47 +0000Square3(~Square4@user/square) Square
2024-12-12 22:11:00 +0000rstromlund(~user@user/rstromlund) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
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2024-12-12 22:11:35 +0000machinedgod(~machinedg@d108-173-18-100.abhsia.telus.net) machinedgod
2024-12-12 22:12:58 +0000 <hellwolf> : o = id
2024-12-12 22:13:12 +0000 <hellwolf> :t o . o
2024-12-12 22:13:13 +0000 <lambdabot> error:
2024-12-12 22:13:13 +0000 <lambdabot> • Couldn't match expected type ‘b0 -> c’ with actual type ‘Expr’
2024-12-12 22:13:13 +0000 <lambdabot> • In the first argument of ‘(.)’, namely ‘o’
2024-12-12 22:13:29 +0000Square2(~Square4@user/square) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2024-12-12 22:13:52 +0000 <int-e> :t id . id
2024-12-12 22:13:53 +0000 <lambdabot> c -> c
2024-12-12 22:14:09 +0000 <int-e> :t o
2024-12-12 22:14:24 +0000 <lambdabot> Expr
2024-12-12 22:14:45 +0000 <hellwolf> :t ^ . ^
2024-12-12 22:14:45 +0000 <lambdabot> error: parse error on input ‘^’
2024-12-12 22:14:52 +0000 <hellwolf> :t (^) . (^)
2024-12-12 22:14:53 +0000 <lambdabot> (Integral b1, Integral b2, Num a, Num (b2 -> a)) => a -> b1 -> b2 -> a
2024-12-12 22:15:02 +0000 <int-e> > o + 42 -- that `o` is for things like this
2024-12-12 22:15:04 +0000 <lambdabot> o + 42
2024-12-12 22:15:28 +0000 <hellwolf> :t _ . _
2024-12-12 22:15:34 +0000 <lambdabot> error:
2024-12-12 22:15:34 +0000 <lambdabot> • Found hole: _ :: b0 -> c
2024-12-12 22:15:34 +0000 <lambdabot> Where: ‘b0’ is an ambiguous type variable
2024-12-12 22:15:37 +0000 <int-e> (see also https://hackage.haskell.org/package/simple-reflect )
2024-12-12 22:15:38 +0000merijn(~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn
2024-12-12 22:17:34 +0000peterbecich(~Thunderbi@syn-047-229-123-186.res.spectrum.com) peterbecich
2024-12-12 22:19:07 +0000 <hellwolf> errr hmmm, what
2024-12-12 22:19:51 +0000 <hellwolf> > sum [1..5] :: Expr
2024-12-12 22:19:53 +0000 <lambdabot> 0 + 1 + 2 + 3 + 4 + 5
2024-12-12 22:20:26 +0000 <hellwolf> aha, you have bunch of instances for Expr
2024-12-12 22:20:45 +0000merijn(~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2024-12-12 22:21:14 +0000 <hellwolf> highly polymorphic, hardly comprehensible. Haskell ™
2024-12-12 22:22:19 +0000 <hellwolf> > foldr1 f [a,b,c]
2024-12-12 22:22:20 +0000 <lambdabot> f a (f b c)
2024-12-12 22:22:26 +0000 <hellwolf> > foldr1 f []
2024-12-12 22:22:27 +0000 <lambdabot> error:
2024-12-12 22:22:27 +0000 <lambdabot> • Ambiguous type variable ‘a0’ arising from a use of ‘show_M508612977902...
2024-12-12 22:22:27 +0000 <lambdabot> prevents the constraint ‘(Show a0)’ from being solved.
2024-12-12 22:22:38 +0000 <hellwolf> > foldr1 f ([] :: [Int])
2024-12-12 22:22:39 +0000 <lambdabot> error:
2024-12-12 22:22:39 +0000 <lambdabot> • No instance for (FromExpr Int) arising from a use of ‘f’
2024-12-12 22:22:39 +0000 <lambdabot> • In the first argument of ‘foldr1’, namely ‘f’
2024-12-12 22:22:52 +0000 <hellwolf> > foldr1 f ([] :: [Expr])
2024-12-12 22:22:54 +0000 <lambdabot> *Exception: Prelude.foldr1: empty list
2024-12-12 22:23:09 +0000 <hellwolf> great. actually, I have never used foldr1. why would you ever use it?
2024-12-12 22:25:44 +0000 <glguy> you'd use it when there isn't a "zero" element for your fold
2024-12-12 22:26:24 +0000 <hellwolf> that's what's on the label. but it doesn't say what's the benefit of using it, a partial function.
2024-12-12 22:26:52 +0000 <glguy> Lots of stuff is partial, that's not the most important part
2024-12-12 22:27:12 +0000 <glguy> The benefit is that sometimes that's exactly what you need; there isn't a value to start the fold with
2024-12-12 22:27:54 +0000iteratee(~kyle@162.218.222.207) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2024-12-12 22:27:56 +0000 <Leary> It's perfectly safe on non-empty data, for which we have `Foldable1` when it's statically known.
2024-12-12 22:28:09 +0000iteratee(~kyle@162.218.222.207) iteratee
2024-12-12 22:28:17 +0000AlexNoo_(~AlexNoo@5.139.233.0)
2024-12-12 22:28:49 +0000 <Leary> When non-emptiness is not statically known, the alternative is to `unsnoc` the list and `foldr` on the results, but that may simply be too inefficient.
2024-12-12 22:28:59 +0000AlexNoo(~AlexNoo@5.139.233.0) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2024-12-12 22:29:19 +0000 <Leary> Well, `unsnoc` the `Foldable`, which might not be possible anyway.
2024-12-12 22:29:42 +0000anpad(~pandeyan@user/anpad) (Quit: ZNC 1.8.2 - https://znc.in)
2024-12-12 22:30:34 +0000anpad(~pandeyan@user/anpad) anpad
2024-12-12 22:30:36 +0000 <hellwolf> refreshing my memory, what's the combination for Foldable + Monoid, where base case is mempty?
2024-12-12 22:30:45 +0000 <hellwolf> foldMap?
2024-12-12 22:30:57 +0000 <hellwolf> :t foldMap
2024-12-12 22:30:58 +0000 <lambdabot> (Foldable t, Monoid m) => (a -> m) -> t a -> m
2024-12-12 22:31:01 +0000merijn(~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn
2024-12-12 22:31:01 +0000 <hellwolf> :t foldr1
2024-12-12 22:31:02 +0000 <lambdabot> Foldable t => (a -> a -> a) -> t a -> a
2024-12-12 22:31:41 +0000 <c_wraith> :t fold
2024-12-12 22:31:42 +0000 <lambdabot> (Foldable t, Monoid m) => t m -> m
2024-12-12 22:31:49 +0000 <c_wraith> Is that the one you were looking for?
2024-12-12 22:33:15 +0000 <hellwolf> sorta. I was learning about foldr1.
2024-12-12 22:34:18 +0000 <hellwolf> and Debug.SimpleReflect
2024-12-12 22:34:23 +0000 <hellwolf> where I found foldr1
2024-12-12 22:34:36 +0000 <hellwolf> * the usage of
2024-12-12 22:35:12 +0000merijn(~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2024-12-12 22:35:46 +0000rstromlund(~user@user/rstromlund) rstromlund
2024-12-12 22:36:19 +0000 <hellwolf> > [1] @@ [2]
2024-12-12 22:36:20 +0000 <lambdabot> error:
2024-12-12 22:36:20 +0000 <lambdabot> • Couldn't match expected type ‘Expr’ with actual type ‘[a0]’
2024-12-12 22:36:20 +0000 <lambdabot> • In the first argument of ‘(@@)’, namely ‘[1]’
2024-12-12 22:36:35 +0000 <hellwolf> > sum [1..2] @@ sum [3..4]
2024-12-12 22:36:37 +0000 <lambdabot> (0 + 1 + 2) @@ (0 + 3 + 4)
2024-12-12 22:37:13 +0000cheater(~Username@user/cheater) (Remote host closed the connection)
2024-12-12 22:39:30 +0000tromp(~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl)
2024-12-12 22:43:08 +0000KicksonButt(~quassel@187.21.174.221) (Quit: https://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.)
2024-12-12 22:46:23 +0000merijn(~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn
2024-12-12 22:50:49 +0000merijn(~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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2024-12-12 22:57:49 +0000__jmcantrell__(~weechat@user/jmcantrell) jmcantrell
2024-12-12 22:58:07 +0000jmcantrellGuest7249
2024-12-12 22:58:07 +0000Guest7249(644f1bed9a@user/jmcantrell) (Killed (lead.libera.chat (Nickname regained by services)))
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2024-12-12 22:58:16 +0000jmcantrell_(644f1bed9a@user/jmcantrell) jmcantrell
2024-12-12 23:00:29 +0000 <jle`> tomsmeding: you could use something like ƒ maybe
2024-12-12 23:00:59 +0000tomsmedinglooks at jle`
2024-12-12 23:01:02 +0000sindu(~sindu@176.75.224.1) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2024-12-12 23:01:39 +0000turlando(~turlando@user/turlando) (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2024-12-12 23:01:46 +0000merijn(~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn
2024-12-12 23:02:06 +0000xff0x(~xff0x@2405:6580:b080:900:30ee:920a:5b76:45fa)
2024-12-12 23:03:04 +0000turlando(~turlando@user/turlando) turlando
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2024-12-12 23:06:54 +0000merijn(~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2024-12-12 23:11:32 +0000machinedgod(~machinedg@d108-173-18-100.abhsia.telus.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2024-12-12 23:11:48 +0000tromp(~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2024-12-12 23:15:23 +0000__monty__(~toonn@user/toonn) (Quit: leaving)
2024-12-12 23:15:52 +0000falafel(~falafel@2603:8000:b4f0:62a0:8070:b236:970b:b0e8) falafel
2024-12-12 23:16:25 +0000jmcantrell(~weechat@user/jmcantrell) (Quit: WeeChat 4.4.4)
2024-12-12 23:16:25 +0000jmcantrell_jmcantrell
2024-12-12 23:16:39 +0000Square3(~Square4@user/square) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2024-12-12 23:16:46 +0000__jmcantrell__(~weechat@user/jmcantrell) jmcantrell
2024-12-12 23:16:58 +0000jmcantrellGuest9471
2024-12-12 23:16:58 +0000Guest9471(644f1bed9a@user/jmcantrell) (Killed (osmium.libera.chat (Nickname regained by services)))
2024-12-12 23:16:58 +0000__jmcantrell__jmcantrell
2024-12-12 23:17:08 +0000merijn(~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn
2024-12-12 23:17:09 +0000jmcantrell_(644f1bed9a@user/jmcantrell) jmcantrell
2024-12-12 23:19:39 +0000Square(~Square@user/square) Square
2024-12-12 23:22:31 +0000jle`looks back
2024-12-12 23:22:42 +0000jmcantrell(~weechat@user/jmcantrell) (Quit: WeeChat 4.4.4)
2024-12-12 23:22:43 +0000jmcantrell_jmcantrell
2024-12-12 23:23:01 +0000haskellbridge(~hackager@syn-024-093-192-219.res.spectrum.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
2024-12-12 23:23:49 +0000haskellbridge(~hackager@syn-024-093-192-219.res.spectrum.com) hackager
2024-12-12 23:23:49 +0000ChanServ+v haskellbridge
2024-12-12 23:24:01 +0000merijn(~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2024-12-12 23:24:29 +0000__jmcantrell__(~weechat@user/jmcantrell) jmcantrell
2024-12-12 23:24:29 +0000jmcantrellGuest7045
2024-12-12 23:24:29 +0000Guest7045(644f1bed9a@user/jmcantrell) (Killed (osmium.libera.chat (Nickname regained by services)))
2024-12-12 23:24:29 +0000__jmcantrell__jmcantrell
2024-12-12 23:24:38 +0000jmcantrell_(644f1bed9a@user/jmcantrell) jmcantrell
2024-12-12 23:30:42 +0000peterbecich(~Thunderbi@syn-047-229-123-186.res.spectrum.com) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2024-12-12 23:35:10 +0000merijn(~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn
2024-12-12 23:39:47 +0000merijn(~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2024-12-12 23:50:32 +0000merijn(~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn
2024-12-12 23:52:21 +0000jmcantrell(~weechat@user/jmcantrell) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2024-12-12 23:52:21 +0000jmcantrell_jmcantrell
2024-12-12 23:55:10 +0000merijn(~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2024-12-12 23:59:06 +0000acidjnk_new(~acidjnk@p200300d6e7283f3760eda8a464161486.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)