2024/08/13

2024-08-13 00:06:17 +0200tremon(~tremon@83.80.159.219) (Quit: getting boxed in)
2024-08-13 00:11:18 +0200Sgeo(~Sgeo@user/sgeo)
2024-08-13 00:13:08 +0200 <EvanR> darkling, the dual of a geometric diagram
2024-08-13 00:15:01 +0200 <EvanR> I support 0 based or 1 based. But 2 based is beyond the pale
2024-08-13 00:16:11 +0200 <darkling> I did once create a -3 based array for something.
2024-08-13 00:16:36 +0200 <Inst> e-based indexing is better, and each subsequent index is a power of e
2024-08-13 00:17:14 +0200 <EvanR> ok but what is the first elements index
2024-08-13 00:18:10 +0200 <Inst> if it's 0, then it's 1, if it's 1, then it's e, which apparently offends both indexing crowds
2024-08-13 00:18:32 +0200 <Inst> beyond being intentionally designed to be comedic by beig non-integer indexing
2024-08-13 00:18:51 +0200 <EvanR> that brings nothing new to the table. Allow any real number index
2024-08-13 00:19:15 +0200 <EvanR> continuous memory
2024-08-13 00:21:16 +0200 <Inst> imply such that the return of a particular continuous index provides the average of the two adjacent cells
2024-08-13 00:21:16 +0200 <zrubi> Inst: can you give me a *little* clue?
2024-08-13 00:22:39 +0200 <Inst> yeah, i probably sohuldn't have brought it up, but do you how to use let, where, or case of? any of the three is fine
2024-08-13 00:24:38 +0200gmg(~user@user/gehmehgeh) (Quit: Leaving)
2024-08-13 00:27:18 +0200 <EvanR> when you say average of two values I hear monoid (or semigroup or something)
2024-08-13 00:27:51 +0200 <EvanR> but no, the "array" would be some smooth function
2024-08-13 00:32:44 +0200 <zrubi> Inst: thanks. it's late in here so maybe in another time. have a good day/night and thanks again :-)
2024-08-13 00:33:06 +0200califax(~califax@user/califx) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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2024-08-13 00:33:48 +0200zrubi(~halloy540@147.235.212.157) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2024-08-13 00:34:16 +0200dysthesis(~dysthesis@user/dysthesis) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2024-08-13 00:34:59 +0200stiell_(~stiell@gateway/tor-sasl/stiell)
2024-08-13 00:35:20 +0200 <EvanR> oof, average is not assoc
2024-08-13 00:35:35 +0200dysthesis(~dysthesis@user/dysthesis)
2024-08-13 00:38:43 +0200AlexZenon(~alzenon@94.233.240.239) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2024-08-13 00:40:19 +0200AlexNoo(~AlexNoo@94.233.240.239) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2024-08-13 00:41:47 +0200 <monochrom> uncountable memory sounds like fantastic :)
2024-08-13 00:41:57 +0200AlexNoo(~AlexNoo@178.34.160.210)
2024-08-13 00:44:49 +0200 <EvanR> this interface would work [Bit] -> [Bit]
2024-08-13 00:45:19 +0200 <haskellbridge> <thirdofmay18081814goya> can I make this pointfree without "pure"? "(<$>) f (State g) = State (Data.Bifunctor.first f . g)"
2024-08-13 00:45:25 +0200 <EvanR> don't try to add offsets to the index though
2024-08-13 00:45:29 +0200 <haskellbridge> <thirdofmay18081814goya> can I make this pointfree without "pure"?
2024-08-13 00:45:29 +0200 <haskellbridge> "(<$>) f (State g) = State (Data.Bifunctor.first f . g)"
2024-08-13 00:47:57 +0200 <haskellbridge> <thirdofmay18081814goya> how would you make "(<$>) f (State g) = State (Data.Bifunctor.first f . g)" pointfree?
2024-08-13 00:49:09 +0200 <monochrom> I wouldn't.
2024-08-13 00:49:57 +0200 <monochrom> But try rewriting to: fmap f s = State (first f . runState s)
2024-08-13 00:52:39 +0200AlexZenon(~alzenon@178.34.160.210)
2024-08-13 00:58:34 +0200 <monochrom> EvanR: Yeah, average is super annoying. I ended up defining the helper type "data S a = S{total :: a, count :: Int}" then it's assoc. Then I put it on the exam. :)
2024-08-13 00:59:22 +0200 <monochrom> "Write the Semigroup and Monoid instances of it"
2024-08-13 00:59:37 +0200 <EvanR> coooooool
2024-08-13 01:01:21 +0200 <monochrom> Then the next exam I went overboard with "data S a = S{count :: Int, total :: a, sumOfSquares :: a}" so it covers all of statistics: count, average, sample deviation.
2024-08-13 01:02:46 +0200 <EvanR> delay the division as long as possible, very lazy
2024-08-13 01:05:48 +0200sawilagar_(~sawilagar@user/sawilagar) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2024-08-13 01:05:59 +0200 <haskellbridge> <thirdofmay18081814goya> consider "f :: a -> b -> c" and "g :: a -> b". is "\f g x -> f x (g x)" an instance of anything general
2024-08-13 01:06:35 +0200 <monochrom> It's (<*>) of the (->)e Applicative.
2024-08-13 01:06:50 +0200 <haskellbridge> <thirdofmay18081814goya> monochrom: ty!
2024-08-13 01:08:30 +0200sawilagar(~sawilagar@user/sawilagar)
2024-08-13 01:10:45 +0200 <EvanR> you just discovered the S combinator
2024-08-13 01:11:11 +0200 <EvanR> not to be confused with data S a = S { count :: Int, total :: a }
2024-08-13 01:14:21 +0200 <haskellbridge> <thirdofmay18081814goya> neato!
2024-08-13 01:14:52 +0200dysthesis(~dysthesis@user/dysthesis) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2024-08-13 01:19:04 +0200peterbecich(~Thunderbi@syn-047-229-123-186.res.spectrum.com)
2024-08-13 01:21:44 +0200sawilagar_(~sawilagar@user/sawilagar)
2024-08-13 01:23:11 +0200sawilagar(~sawilagar@user/sawilagar) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2024-08-13 01:34:00 +0200 <dostoyevsky2> Is the idea of structured recursion common in functional languages? Or where did that originate?
2024-08-13 01:35:14 +0200 <dostoyevsky2> Oh, this is a math concept actually? Noetherian induction
2024-08-13 01:37:33 +0200alexherbo2(~alexherbo@2a02-8440-320d-0f2a-505d-a57d-46e4-6611.rev.sfr.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2024-08-13 01:37:50 +0200 <jackdk> I never found the "`S` = `(<*>)` for `((->) e)`" framing especially helpful. I think about the purpose of `S` as "plumb the third argument through to the first two", that is `S f g x = (f x) (g x)`. (Similarly, `B f g x = f (g x)` happens to be `(.)` and `C f g x = (f x) g` happens to be `flip`, but I consider their "purpose" to be plumbing `x` to one side or the other. It is helpful to take those intuitions back the other way, if you like point-free)
2024-08-13 01:38:46 +0200pavonia(~user@user/siracusa)
2024-08-13 01:44:16 +0200ChaiTRex(~ChaiTRex@user/chaitrex) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2024-08-13 01:47:30 +0200ChaiTRex(~ChaiTRex@user/chaitrex)
2024-08-13 01:47:59 +0200bitdex(~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex)
2024-08-13 01:48:41 +0200misterfish(~misterfis@22.1-12-147.kabelnoord.net) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2024-08-13 01:59:11 +0200 <dolio> S is contraction+exchange. K is weakening.
2024-08-13 02:00:28 +0200JuanDaugherty(~juan@user/JuanDaugherty)
2024-08-13 02:06:52 +0200 <jackdk> I don't follow, are you able to elaborate?
2024-08-13 02:08:35 +0200 <dolio> s f g x = f x (g x). The g and x have switched order, and x is duplicated.
2024-08-13 02:08:42 +0200 <dolio> k x y = x, y is gone.
2024-08-13 02:08:45 +0200Tuplanolla(~Tuplanoll@91-159-69-59.elisa-laajakaista.fi) (Quit: Leaving.)
2024-08-13 02:09:43 +0200machinedgod(~machinedg@d50-99-47-73.abhsia.telus.net) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2024-08-13 02:10:20 +0200 <dolio> In sequent calculus, exchange switches order of premises. Contraction duplicates premises. Weakening discards premises.
2024-08-13 02:12:34 +0200peterbecich(~Thunderbi@syn-047-229-123-186.res.spectrum.com) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2024-08-13 02:12:35 +0200 <dolio> I guess s is also cut, because g has become an argument to f.
2024-08-13 02:16:45 +0200nek0(~nek0@user/nek0) (Quit: The Lounge - https://thelounge.chat)
2024-08-13 02:20:21 +0200 <dolio> And you need two combinators because if you just added a discarded argument to s, you'd have to duplicate other stuff to throw anything away.
2024-08-13 02:27:03 +0200oo_miguel(~Thunderbi@78.10.207.46) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
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2024-08-13 02:41:51 +0200neuroevolutus(~neuroevol@2603:8080:aa00:1a4d:7899:2249:538c:9622)
2024-08-13 02:43:01 +0200JuanDaugherty(~juan@user/JuanDaugherty) (Quit: JuanDaugherty)
2024-08-13 02:45:03 +0200 <haskellbridge> <thirdofmay18081814goya> what's pointfree for "f x = g x . h x "?
2024-08-13 02:47:35 +0200 <geekosaur> @pl f x = g x . h x
2024-08-13 02:47:35 +0200 <lambdabot> f = liftM2 (.) g h
2024-08-13 02:48:04 +0200 <geekosaur> (or `liftA2` if you prefer; @pl was never updated for Applicative)
2024-08-13 02:48:43 +0200 <haskellbridge> <thirdofmay18081814goya> neato! ty
2024-08-13 02:50:32 +0200 <geekosaur> you can't easily use it from the bridge, although there's a hack: craft a 2-line message, make the second line the bot invocation. may annoy people on this side though
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2024-08-13 02:56:27 +0200Axman6will be so annoyed
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2024-08-13 11:10:26 +0200 <Athas> What is the reason why expressions like 'f \x -> x' and 'x let a = b in c' are invalid syntax?
2024-08-13 11:10:32 +0200 <Athas> Is it related to block layout?
2024-08-13 11:11:46 +0200 <danse-nr3> as opposed to `f x = x` and `x = let a = b in c`?
2024-08-13 11:12:02 +0200 <c_wraith> more as opposed to f $ \x -> x
2024-08-13 11:12:06 +0200 <c_wraith> which is valid
2024-08-13 11:12:13 +0200 <danse-nr3> i see
2024-08-13 11:12:15 +0200 <Athas> Yes, it's about application.
2024-08-13 11:12:34 +0200 <danse-nr3> f (\x -> x)
2024-08-13 11:13:09 +0200 <danse-nr3> hm maybe because `\` can be an operator?
2024-08-13 11:13:21 +0200 <danse-nr3> not sure
2024-08-13 11:13:22 +0200 <c_wraith> nah, \ is reserved by itself
2024-08-13 11:13:31 +0200 <danse-nr3> % :t (\)
2024-08-13 11:13:31 +0200 <yahb2> <interactive>:1:3: error: parse error on input ‘)’
2024-08-13 11:13:34 +0200 <c_wraith> I don't know that there's any particular reason for it, as GHC has an extension to allow it
2024-08-13 11:13:34 +0200 <danse-nr3> right
2024-08-13 11:14:19 +0200 <c_wraith> I guess there's some potential ambiguity regarding nesting
2024-08-13 11:14:24 +0200 <c_wraith> > do 1 + do 2
2024-08-13 11:14:26 +0200 <lambdabot> 3
2024-08-13 11:14:43 +0200 <c_wraith> > (+) do 1 do 2 -- how does this get parsed, anyway?
2024-08-13 11:14:45 +0200 <lambdabot> error:
2024-08-13 11:14:45 +0200 <lambdabot> Unexpected do block in function application:
2024-08-13 11:14:45 +0200 <lambdabot> do 1 do 2
2024-08-13 11:15:11 +0200 <Athas> Looking at the Haskell report, the reason is that there is a distinct 'fexp' nonterminal for applications. But what purpose does it serve?
2024-08-13 11:15:52 +0200 <c_wraith> well, it avoids that ambiguity
2024-08-13 11:15:53 +0200 <probie> > (+1) do (*2) do 3
2024-08-13 11:15:55 +0200 <lambdabot> error:
2024-08-13 11:15:55 +0200 <lambdabot> Unexpected do block in function application:
2024-08-13 11:15:55 +0200 <lambdabot> do (* 2) do 3
2024-08-13 11:16:14 +0200 <probie> %:set -XBlockArguments
2024-08-13 11:16:25 +0200 <probie> % :set -XBlockArguments
2024-08-13 11:16:25 +0200 <yahb2> <no output>
2024-08-13 11:16:34 +0200 <c_wraith> But honestly, just spitting out an error message if there's actual ambiguity instead of forbidding the grammar level is... just as good
2024-08-13 11:16:36 +0200 <probie> % (+1) do (*2) do 3
2024-08-13 11:16:36 +0200 <yahb2> 7
2024-08-13 11:17:18 +0200 <probie> % (+) do 1 do 2 -- I think this should be a type error (well, no instance for `Num`)
2024-08-13 11:17:18 +0200 <yahb2> <interactive>:107:1: error: ; • Could not deduce (Num t0) ; from the context: (Num a, Num t, Num (t -> a)) ; bound by the inferred type for ‘it’: ; forall {a} {...
2024-08-13 11:17:36 +0200ZharMeny(~user@user/ZharMeny)
2024-08-13 11:17:57 +0200 <probie> % 3 * do 5 + 2
2024-08-13 11:17:57 +0200 <yahb2> 21
2024-08-13 11:18:39 +0200 <c_wraith> well that's weird
2024-08-13 11:19:43 +0200 <probie> You can use it like `$` for replacing parens, only it's useful in more place
2024-08-13 11:24:14 +0200segfaultfizzbuzz(~segfaultf@23-93-79-84.fiber.dynamic.sonic.net)
2024-08-13 11:25:12 +0200 <danse-nr3> `do` rather than `$`? Fun, hadn't realised
2024-08-13 11:28:22 +0200ubert(~Thunderbi@2001:871:263:b6be:571d:68d5:9d34:3ba7)
2024-08-13 11:28:27 +0200 <danse-nr3> % ('a':) do ('b':) do ('c':) do "d"
2024-08-13 11:28:27 +0200 <yahb2> "abcd"
2024-08-13 11:28:33 +0200 <danse-nr3> :P
2024-08-13 11:29:01 +0200 <danse-nr3> well stupid example, i just wanted to try that out
2024-08-13 11:30:26 +0200 <danse-nr3> % :t fmap do \x -> x
2024-08-13 11:30:26 +0200 <yahb2> fmap do \x -> x :: Functor f => f b -> f b
2024-08-13 11:30:51 +0200segfaultfizzbuzz(~segfaultf@23-93-79-84.fiber.dynamic.sonic.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2024-08-13 11:32:10 +0200 <danse-nr3> i think i'll try that more, hoping it won't upset my colleagues :P
2024-08-13 11:35:48 +0200 <probie> one of my former coworkers was a big fan of `x .~ someLens & do some long thing here`
2024-08-13 11:36:10 +0200 <danse-nr3> & do == & $?
2024-08-13 11:37:12 +0200 <probie> except you can't write `& $`
2024-08-13 11:37:18 +0200 <danse-nr3> hmm
2024-08-13 11:37:34 +0200 <danse-nr3> i mean i even dislike &s and $s in the same line
2024-08-13 11:38:20 +0200 <danse-nr3> find that awkward to read
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2024-08-13 17:29:31 +0200JuanDaugherty(~juan@user/JuanDaugherty)
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2024-08-13 17:30:44 +0200JamesMowery(~JamesMowe@ip98-167-207-182.ph.ph.cox.net) (Quit: Goodbye)
2024-08-13 17:31:00 +0200JamesMowery(~JamesMowe@ip98-167-207-182.ph.ph.cox.net)
2024-08-13 17:36:13 +0200terrorjack4(~terrorjac@static.163.82.63.178.clients.your-server.de) (Quit: The Lounge - https://thelounge.chat)
2024-08-13 17:36:33 +0200nschoe(~nschoe@2a01:e0a:8e:a190:c682:940b:f5c:17fc) (Quit: ZNC 1.8.2 - https://znc.in)
2024-08-13 17:36:50 +0200nschoe(~nschoe@2a01:e0a:8e:a190:a72e:72ce:de20:7681)
2024-08-13 17:38:27 +0200terrorjack4(~terrorjac@2a01:4f8:121:32e8::)
2024-08-13 17:40:17 +0200JuanDaugherty(~juan@user/JuanDaugherty) (Quit: JuanDaugherty)
2024-08-13 17:40:46 +0200ft(~ft@p4fc2aa15.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
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2024-08-13 17:47:35 +0200 <Leary> Athas: Haskell design error. BlockArguments has the fix, so "set and forget".
2024-08-13 17:49:19 +0200L29Ah(~L29Ah@wikipedia/L29Ah) ()
2024-08-13 17:50:52 +0200segfaultfizzbuzz(~segfaultf@135-180-137-170.fiber.static.sonic.net)
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2024-08-13 17:54:08 +0200alexherbo2(~alexherbo@2a02-8440-321d-9a27-84e3-d48d-26eb-4237.rev.sfr.net)
2024-08-13 17:54:16 +0200 <mauke> % do do do do do do do do do "baby shark"
2024-08-13 17:54:16 +0200 <yahb2> "baby shark"
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2024-08-13 18:11:19 +0200euphores(~SASL_euph@user/euphores)
2024-08-13 18:12:38 +0200 <haskellbridge> <thirdofmay18081814goya> how would you compose "\x -> ((+3), x + 1)" and "\x -> (7, x * 2)" to get "\x -> ((+3) 7, (+1) (*2) x)"?
2024-08-13 18:13:06 +0200segfaultfizzbuzz(~segfaultf@135-180-137-170.fiber.static.sonic.net) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2024-08-13 18:14:24 +0200 <EvanR> the second component is a number not a function so good luck with that
2024-08-13 18:16:01 +0200 <mauke> :t \f g x -> let (a, b) = g x; (c, d) = f b in (c a, d)
2024-08-13 18:16:02 +0200 <lambdabot> (t1 -> (t2 -> a, b)) -> (t3 -> (t2, t1)) -> t3 -> (a, b)
2024-08-13 18:16:19 +0200machinedgod(~machinedg@d50-99-47-73.abhsia.telus.net) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2024-08-13 18:16:25 +0200 <mauke> @pl \f g x -> let (a, b) = g x; (c, d) = f b in (c a, d)
2024-08-13 18:16:25 +0200 <lambdabot> (line 1, column 15):
2024-08-13 18:16:25 +0200 <lambdabot> unexpected "("
2024-08-13 18:16:25 +0200 <lambdabot> expecting "()", natural, identifier or "in"
2024-08-13 18:17:44 +0200 <haskellbridge> <thirdofmay18081814goya> mauke: ah I see the strategy, thanks a lot!!
2024-08-13 18:17:59 +0200 <mauke> :t \f g x -> let y = g x; z = f (snd y) in (fst z (fst y), snd z)
2024-08-13 18:18:00 +0200 <lambdabot> (b1 -> (t1 -> a, b2)) -> (t2 -> (t1, b1)) -> t2 -> (a, b2)
2024-08-13 18:18:04 +0200 <mauke> @pl \f g x -> let y = g x; z = f (snd y) in (fst z (fst y), snd z)
2024-08-13 18:18:04 +0200 <lambdabot> (.) . ap ((`ap` snd) . ((,) .) . flip fst . fst) . (. snd)
2024-08-13 18:18:18 +0200 <mauke> @pl \x -> let y = g x; z = f (snd y) in (fst z (fst y), snd z)
2024-08-13 18:18:19 +0200 <lambdabot> ap ((`ap` snd) . ((,) .) . flip fst . fst) (f . snd) . fix . const . g
2024-08-13 18:18:30 +0200 <mauke> wow, that's terrible
2024-08-13 18:18:34 +0200leah2(~leah@vuxu.org)
2024-08-13 18:19:03 +0200 <haskellbridge> <thirdofmay18081814goya> yeah but I didn't realize I was actually looking for pattern matching with "let", thanks
2024-08-13 18:19:20 +0200 <mauke> you can also use case/of
2024-08-13 18:20:13 +0200 <mauke> :t flip fst
2024-08-13 18:20:14 +0200 <lambdabot> b1 -> (b1 -> c, b2) -> c
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