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2024-04-27 00:57:59 +0200 <haskellbridge> <i​rregularsphere> I sometimes use Haskell on my phone, too!
2024-04-27 00:58:00 +0200 <haskellbridge> <i​rregularsphere> It's on 8.10.7 rn (upgradable to 9.2.5-1) but Termux fills up 18GB of my phone's storage mostly due to useless packages I installed in the past. Planning to wipe & reinstall, though.
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2024-04-27 05:34:10 +0200 <dmj`> monochrom: we need haskellton
2024-04-27 05:36:12 +0200y04nn(~username@2a03:1b20:8:f011::e10d)
2024-04-27 05:39:35 +0200tdlgalt^(~cd@c-98-242-74-66.hsd1.ga.comcast.net)
2024-04-27 05:44:38 +0200 <probie> As in a full program optimising compiler?
2024-04-27 05:45:16 +0200 <probie> or just something that eats absurd amounts of RAM (which GHC seems quite capable of doing on its own)
2024-04-27 05:45:18 +0200 <monochrom> Yeah.
2024-04-27 05:45:26 +0200Pixi(~Pixi@user/pixi) (Quit: Leaving)
2024-04-27 05:45:26 +0200 <monochrom> That too. :)
2024-04-27 05:47:33 +0200Pixi(~Pixi@user/pixi)
2024-04-27 05:57:32 +0200 <dmj`> probie: if we had haskellton, we wouldn't eat as much memory
2024-04-27 05:57:39 +0200 <dmj`> probie: and yes
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2024-04-27 08:10:06 +0200tromp(~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl)
2024-04-27 08:16:34 +0200 <bsima> how do I find out what version of template-haskell is shipped with my ghc version?
2024-04-27 08:16:40 +0200 <bsima> I look at the .version field in nixpkgs and its null
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2024-04-27 08:28:25 +0200 <probie> `ghc-pkg latest template-haskell` probably
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2024-04-27 09:13:32 +0200 <bsima> yeah that worked, i was looking for a webpage or something that would list it
2024-04-27 09:18:54 +0200_ht(~Thunderbi@28-52-174-82.ftth.glasoperator.nl)
2024-04-27 09:20:59 +0200ykm(~ykm@user/hylisper) ()
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2024-04-27 09:47:45 +0200 <geekosaur> bsima, https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/wikis/commentary/libraries/version-history
2024-04-27 09:48:44 +0200 <bsima> ah thanks geekosaur
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2024-04-27 11:06:38 +0200euphores(~SASL_euph@user/euphores)
2024-04-27 11:08:06 +0200 <ph88> How can i see the instance implementation of Show :+: ? -ddump-deriv doesn't work because the base library is not recompiled https://hackage.haskell.org/package/base-4.19.1.0/docs/GHC-Generics.html#t:Data
2024-04-27 11:22:28 +0200sawilagar(~sawilagar@user/sawilagar) (Quit: Leaving)
2024-04-27 11:27:17 +0200danza_(~francesco@151.47.235.82)
2024-04-27 11:27:25 +0200 <int-e> How about imitating it? data a ::+:: b = a ::+:: b deriving (Show)
2024-04-27 11:27:38 +0200 <int-e> err, that's not the right declaration
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2024-04-27 11:51:46 +0200danza_(~francesco@151.47.235.82)
2024-04-27 11:53:11 +0200 <tomsmeding> I have a haskell library that, if a certain cabal flag is set (-fdebug), depends on a whole bunch of additional C++ code that is cloned into a git submodule by Setup.hs if the flag is set. The C++ files are necessary for compilation with -fdebug, so they should be in extra-source-files but only if -fdebug is set. This is impossible because top-level blocks cannot be put in a conditional.
2024-04-27 11:54:05 +0200connrs(~connrs@user/connrs) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2024-04-27 11:54:08 +0200 <tomsmeding> Now anyone who does `cabal sdist` (for example by using the library as a dependency (!)) but doesn't have -fdebug set, which is most people, will get cabal diagnostics that the extra-source-files are not found
2024-04-27 11:54:11 +0200 <tomsmeding> What do?
2024-04-27 11:55:36 +0200waleee(~waleee@h-176-10-144-38.NA.cust.bahnhof.se)
2024-04-27 11:55:47 +0200euleritian(~euleritia@ip4d16fc38.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2024-04-27 11:56:27 +0200euleritian(~euleritia@176.2.139.168)
2024-04-27 11:57:34 +0200 <tomsmeding> (_not_ setting the extra-source-files meaning that using the library as a source-repository-package dependency with -fdebug will fail because the C++ files are not copied by cabal before building)
2024-04-27 11:57:48 +0200 <tomsmeding> s/meaning that/means that/
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2024-04-27 16:38:12 +0200mima(~mmh@eduroam-pool4-264.wlan.uni-bremen.de)
2024-04-27 16:49:33 +0200 <yin> hi. can someone give me a simple explanation of why 'Pattern matching on GADTs without MonoLocalBinds is fragile'?
2024-04-27 17:00:27 +0200mima(~mmh@eduroam-pool4-264.wlan.uni-bremen.de) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2024-04-27 17:03:06 +0200 <ncf> yin: see section 4.2 of https://simon.peytonjones.org/assets/pdfs/outsideinx.pdf
2024-04-27 17:04:55 +0200rosco(~rosco@yp-146-6.tm.net.my) (Quit: Lost terminal)
2024-04-27 17:04:58 +0200 <ncf> (i'm not sure why this makes pattern matching "fragile", but that's the reason given in the documentation)
2024-04-27 17:05:26 +0200superbil(~superbil@1-34-176-171.hinet-ip.hinet.net) (Quit: WeeChat 4.2.2)
2024-04-27 17:11:19 +0200jumper149(~jumper149@base.felixspringer.xyz)
2024-04-27 17:12:42 +0200superbil(~superbil@1-34-176-171.hinet-ip.hinet.net)
2024-04-27 17:14:22 +0200 <ncf> i also can't reproduce the issue in the paper at all... with their code snippet and NoMonoLocalBinds i get the expected "Couldn't match expected type 'Bool' with actual type 'a'"
2024-04-27 17:14:48 +0200 <jumper149> I want to create a value-level literal from a type-level datakind. Do I need singletons or is this possible with `Typeable` or something else?
2024-04-27 17:15:20 +0200tri(~tri@ool-18bc2e74.dyn.optonline.net)
2024-04-27 17:16:24 +0200 <jumper149> So basically I want something like `natVal` or `symbolVal` for my custom enum type.
2024-04-27 17:19:45 +0200tri(~tri@ool-18bc2e74.dyn.optonline.net) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2024-04-27 17:19:48 +0200 <[Leary]> jumper149: Make a typeclass?
2024-04-27 17:21:14 +0200 <jumper149> data T = A | B
2024-04-27 17:21:27 +0200 <jumper149> class TKindToType where
2024-04-27 17:21:54 +0200 <jumper149> toVal :: Proxy (t :: T) -> T
2024-04-27 17:22:05 +0200 <jumper149> [Leary]: Something like this is what you mean?
2024-04-27 17:24:48 +0200 <[Leary]> `t` Should be the parameter to the class, but yes.
2024-04-27 17:25:10 +0200 <jumper149> Yeah, I just wrote this directly into weechat, so I forgot...
2024-04-27 17:25:31 +0200 <jumper149> Well but that is the same thing singletons would do I think
2024-04-27 17:26:25 +0200 <jumper149> The annoying part is you have to write all instances by hand or generate them with singletons.
2024-04-27 17:26:39 +0200 <jumper149> But I guess dependent haskell has to wait a little more
2024-04-27 17:27:36 +0200someone235(uid419897@id-419897.ilkley.irccloud.com)
2024-04-27 17:29:15 +0200 <someone235> Hi, I'm getting `/usr/bin/ld.gold: error: cannot find -lgmp` when trying to run `ghc hello.hs`. Anyone has any idea what could be the cause?
2024-04-27 17:30:55 +0200superbil(~superbil@1-34-176-171.hinet-ip.hinet.net) (Quit: WeeChat 4.2.2)
2024-04-27 17:33:34 +0200tromp(~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl)
2024-04-27 17:35:57 +0200kupi(uid212005@id-212005.hampstead.irccloud.com)
2024-04-27 17:36:26 +0200 <geekosaur> you need to install the OS gmp devel package
2024-04-27 17:36:36 +0200 <geekosaur> haskell can't do this for you
2024-04-27 17:37:34 +0200 <someone235> geekosaur: it's weird that it's not listed as a dependency in the instructions
2024-04-27 17:38:15 +0200 <someone235> Anyway, it worked, so thank you!
2024-04-27 17:38:21 +0200 <geekosaur> https://www.haskell.org/ghcup/install/#system-requirements
2024-04-27 17:38:47 +0200 <geekosaur> I thought ghcup also output a message about this on install
2024-04-27 17:41:25 +0200superbil(~superbil@1-34-176-171.hinet-ip.hinet.net)
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2024-04-27 18:01:12 +0200 <monochrom> It does. No one reads it.
2024-04-27 18:02:23 +0200waleee(~waleee@h-176-10-144-38.NA.cust.bahnhof.se) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
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2024-04-27 18:26:36 +0200 <haskellbridge> <J​ade> im pretty sure this is still out of date for a few distros, I meant to raise an issue about that ...
2024-04-27 18:28:05 +0200 <geekosaur> `gmp` has always been a dependency though
2024-04-27 18:36:09 +0200 <probie> Does ghcup support installing a GHC which uses integer-simple?
2024-04-27 18:37:16 +0200 <geekosaur> probably does but requires extra histrionics if you're not on Alpine
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2024-04-27 19:03:24 +0200 <haskellbridge> <J​ade> geekosaur: this is in reference to libffi6/7 on debian
2024-04-27 19:03:57 +0200 <haskellbridge> <J​ade> im pretty sure those are out of date, atleast last time I installed ghcup in debian I needed to use a higher version
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2024-04-27 19:22:21 +0200halloy4906reki
2024-04-27 19:24:06 +0200 <reki> Hi all! I've just pushed updated version of Future Monad. It's stateful now and works the same way as IO
2024-04-27 19:24:08 +0200 <reki> https://github.com/ibaryshnikov/future-hs
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2024-04-27 19:52:09 +0200Square(~Square@user/square)
2024-04-27 19:58:28 +0200 <tomsmeding> jumper149: types are erased at runtime in haskell, so you have to get a value from somewhere that is not _just_ the type
2024-04-27 19:59:00 +0200 <tomsmeding> generally that "somewhere" is some kind of singleton, be it via the 'singletons' library or otherwise, and via a typeclass or otherwise
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2024-04-27 22:05:38 +0200 <mreh> Should stack build be failing to find the c std lib? For some reason ghci handles compiling this FFI code fine.
2024-04-27 22:05:43 +0200darkling(~darkling@2001-ba8-1f1-f0e6-0-0-0-2.autov6rev.bitfolk.space) (Summoning his cosmic powers, and glowing slightly from his toes...)
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2024-04-27 23:16:57 +0200 <haskellbridge> <J​ade> what makes `unsafeInterleaveIO` unsafe?
2024-04-27 23:18:01 +0200 <geekosaur> it tells the compiler "I promise this is actually pure", and the compiler will treat it as such and may duplicate it, reorder it, etc.
2024-04-27 23:18:15 +0200 <geekosaur> oh, interleave, sorry
2024-04-27 23:18:32 +0200 <geekosaur> basically it's doing unchecked I/O behind the scenes
2024-04-27 23:18:34 +0200peterbecich(~Thunderbi@47.229.123.186)
2024-04-27 23:18:52 +0200 <ski> as unsafe as concurrency (`forkIO')
2024-04-27 23:19:06 +0200 <EvanR> evaluating something containing unsafeInterleaveIO can have side effects
2024-04-27 23:19:43 +0200 <haskellbridge> <J​ade> yeah but it's `IO a -> IO a`, so it can have side effects either way?
2024-04-27 23:19:46 +0200 <EvanR> it requires extra logic beyond haskell to make sure it makes sense
2024-04-27 23:20:07 +0200 <EvanR> nevermind me, you're right
2024-04-27 23:20:12 +0200 <geekosaur> the problem is, you can use >>= to get at the `a`, but it is not obvious that it can continue to do I/O
2024-04-27 23:20:14 +0200 <EvanR> that's what makes it different from unsafePerformIO
2024-04-27 23:20:16 +0200dispater-(~dispater@host-78-146-88-32.as13285.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2024-04-27 23:20:16 +0200orcus-(~orcus@host-78-146-88-32.as13285.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2024-04-27 23:22:15 +0200dispater-(~dispater@host-78-146-88-32.as13285.net)
2024-04-27 23:22:35 +0200 <yin> what's wrong with the charts at https://ircbrowse.tomsmeding.com/lchaskell ?
2024-04-27 23:22:45 +0200orcus-(~orcus@host-78-146-88-32.as13285.net)
2024-04-27 23:24:06 +0200dispater-(~dispater@host-78-146-88-32.as13285.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2024-04-27 23:27:04 +0200 <EvanR> "could not load the image"
2024-04-27 23:27:25 +0200 <EvanR> it's 404ing, maybe google discontinued that API
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2024-04-27 23:27:39 +0200machinedgod(~machinedg@d173-183-246-216.abhsia.telus.net) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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2024-04-27 23:31:35 +0200tromp(~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl)
2024-04-27 23:32:26 +0200dsrt^(~cd@c-98-242-74-66.hsd1.ga.comcast.net)
2024-04-27 23:33:48 +0200dispater-(~dispater@host-78-146-88-32.as13285.net)
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2024-04-27 23:36:00 +0200sam113102(~sam@24.157.253.231)
2024-04-27 23:37:39 +0200sam113102(~sam@24.157.253.231) (Client Quit)
2024-04-27 23:38:10 +0200 <[Leary]> Jade: It's akin to `pure . unsafePerformIO`; the former does not actually cancel the danger of the latter. In particular, it violates referential transparency: when `unsafeInterleaveIO` is in use, you cannot replace one expression with another equal expression blindly, as one may produce observable side effects when forced, hence the substitution changes the meaning of your program.
2024-04-27 23:38:24 +0200 <[Leary]> % traverse (unsafeInterleaveIO . putChar) "hello world" >>= print . void
2024-04-27 23:38:24 +0200 <yahb2> [(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),()]
2024-04-27 23:38:52 +0200 <[Leary]> Here, we're printing a list of units, so the `void` is redundant and should be removed.
2024-04-27 23:38:56 +0200 <[Leary]> % traverse (unsafeInterleaveIO . putChar) "hello world" >>= print
2024-04-27 23:38:56 +0200 <yahb2> [h(),e(),l(),l(),o(), (),w(),o(),r(),l(),d()]
2024-04-27 23:39:49 +0200 <EvanR> it's possible to think yourself out of the side effects and claim what it's doing makes sense, but normally you don't have to do that in haskell. So extra brain cycles required
2024-04-27 23:40:06 +0200sam113101(~sam@24.157.253.231)
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2024-04-27 23:46:51 +0200target_i(~target_i@user/target-i/x-6023099) (Quit: leaving)
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