2024/02/26

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2024-02-26 01:42:19 +0100 <jackdk> Heffalump: how does the indirect dependency misbehave? If you aren't depending on it already, you could raise a bug against the direct dependency and they can exclude the broken versions of the indirect dependency
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2024-02-26 10:40:15 +0100jmdaemon(~jmdaemon@user/jmdaemon) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2024-02-26 10:46:50 +0100 <[exa]> with attoparsec, are there any considerations on whether it's better to feed it ByteStrings and parse out Text (via decoding after the bytestrings are parsed), or feed it Text directly (and avoid decoding) ? My main concern is streaming btw, the "Text to Text" way sounds less painful but I'm not really sure how nice the Text streaming will be when faced with the usual OS routines down below.
2024-02-26 10:47:03 +0100 <[exa]> (or maybe are there good ways to stream Text over?)
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2024-02-26 15:14:30 +0100thegeekinside(~thegeekin@189.217.83.221)
2024-02-26 15:20:29 +0100 <dmj`> If Haskell98 doesn't allow RankNTypes, how were typeclasses implemented back in the day (dictionary passing wouldn't have been viable, since it requires a least rank 2 types). Just static monomorphization?
2024-02-26 15:22:12 +0100 <EvanR> dictionary passing requires rank 2 types?
2024-02-26 15:23:02 +0100 <EvanR> didn't think core had rank 2 types
2024-02-26 15:28:54 +0100 <dmj`> data Monad m = Monad { return :: a -> m a, ... } needs the forall a.
2024-02-26 15:33:54 +0100szkl(uid110435@id-110435.uxbridge.irccloud.com)
2024-02-26 15:33:56 +0100 <opqdonut> good question, I'd never thought of that
2024-02-26 15:34:19 +0100 <opqdonut> all the dictionary passing examples don't have polymorphism like that, they're something boring like Eq or Show
2024-02-26 15:35:25 +0100 <ncf> presumably there's no obstruction to having rank-n types in your core language, since there's no type inference needed there?
2024-02-26 15:37:33 +0100 <lortabac> Core is based on System-F, it has first-class polymorphism
2024-02-26 15:39:04 +0100 <ncf> *nod*
2024-02-26 15:39:22 +0100 <lortabac> besides rank-n types, it also allows the parameter of a polymorphic signature to be itself polymorphic
2024-02-26 15:40:06 +0100 <lortabac> which is something that I don't think Haskell supports fully (even with ImpredicativeTypes)
2024-02-26 15:41:09 +0100 <dmj`> but haskell98 didn't have core w/ system-f (or did it?), I'd imagine it was just HM + class constraints (lambda bound args are forced to be monomorphic making TC decidable)
2024-02-26 15:41:31 +0100 <lortabac> Core has always been based on System-F as far as I know
2024-02-26 15:42:02 +0100 <lortabac> otherwise implementing type-classes such as Monad would have been impossible I guess
2024-02-26 15:42:04 +0100 <ncf> haskell98 never had Core because Core is an implementation detail of GHC?
2024-02-26 15:42:48 +0100 <ncf> i don't think the standard says anything about dictionary passing
2024-02-26 15:43:49 +0100 <lortabac> ncf: good point
2024-02-26 15:44:29 +0100ski(~ski@ext-1-033.eduroam.chalmers.se) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2024-02-26 15:46:24 +0100 <lortabac> ncf: yes, Core doesn't have inference, so it can support a more powerful type system
2024-02-26 15:46:59 +0100 <dmj`> I guess its possible core was always system f yet the surface syntax (h98) disallowed rank n types
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2024-02-26 15:53:10 +0100 <dmj`> wonder if it also has to do with the fact ghc is an incremental compiler and static monomorphization (the alternative to dictionary passing) wouldn't be possible
2024-02-26 15:53:33 +0100AlexZenon(~alzenon@178.34.161.13) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
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2024-02-26 15:56:43 +0100ski(~ski@ext-1-033.eduroam.chalmers.se)
2024-02-26 15:58:14 +0100 <lortabac> I suppose that was an important factor in the choice of the implementation
2024-02-26 16:10:55 +0100euleritian(~euleritia@ip4d16fc38.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2024-02-26 16:11:59 +0100ystael(~ystael@user/ystael)
2024-02-26 16:13:02 +0100 <dmj`> yea, if you don't pass the dictionary you /have/ to inline (I think), and that requires source from dependencies that wouldn't be available, unless its all in the .hi files
2024-02-26 16:15:24 +0100lg188(~lg188@82.18.98.230) (Quit: Bye.)
2024-02-26 16:16:32 +0100TheCoffeMaker(~TheCoffeM@user/thecoffemaker) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
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2024-02-26 16:20:02 +0100lg188(~lg188@82.18.98.230)
2024-02-26 16:26:56 +0100 <lortabac> dmj`: there is something else too. I think some more advanced features would be hard to express with monomorphization
2024-02-26 16:27:28 +0100 <dmj`> lortabac: polymorphic recursion is the only other one, assuming you're sticking to haskell98 only
2024-02-26 16:29:24 +0100 <lortabac> not Haskell 98, I was thinking of rank-n constraints
2024-02-26 16:30:11 +0100 <lortabac> the choice of monomorphization would have made future developments harder
2024-02-26 16:31:09 +0100 <lortabac> or things like abstracting on the type-class itself
2024-02-26 16:31:37 +0100 <lortabac> forall c a. c a => ...
2024-02-26 16:32:20 +0100 <lortabac> I don't know C++ well enough to be able to say whether this is possible with monomorphization :)
2024-02-26 16:33:47 +0100 <dmj`> pretty sure C++ template instantiation happens before TC'ing so you can generate malformed code, whereas rust its post type-checking, but the concepts are related
2024-02-26 16:34:51 +0100 <dmj`> yea it makes me wonder if rank n types were done out of necessity to handle dictionary passing, and then it became a hammer applied to other nails, like ST, existentials leading to exceptions
2024-02-26 16:36:14 +0100 <lortabac> dmj`: the paper explains the motivations
2024-02-26 16:36:40 +0100 <lortabac> and yes, one of the examples is about doing explicit dictionary passing in Haskell
2024-02-26 16:37:55 +0100 <lortabac> https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/research/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/putting.pdf?from=https://resea…
2024-02-26 16:38:49 +0100 <dmj`> yea that's the paper I'm looking at, hence why I asked
2024-02-26 16:42:02 +0100 <dmj`> I guess polymorphic recursion keeps things undecidable even w/o rank n types
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2024-02-26 19:11:33 +0100 <isovector> is there any good means of desugaring arrow notation?
2024-02-26 19:11:34 +0100sadie-sorceress(~sadie-sor@199.96.191.158) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2024-02-26 19:12:08 +0100jjhoo(~jahakala@user/jjhoo)
2024-02-26 19:12:38 +0100 <isovector> i've tried `overloaded`, which is unmaintained, and `arowp-qq` which doesn't seem to build anymore
2024-02-26 19:13:01 +0100 <isovector> and then i tried writing my own rewrite rules to get rid of the extraneous `arr` calls, but it seems wildly brittle
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2024-02-26 19:33:33 +0100ft(~ft@p508db2e6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2024-02-26 19:35:07 +0100isovector(~isovector@172.103.235.56.cable.tpia.cipherkey.com) (Quit: Client closed)
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2024-02-26 19:53:21 +0100euleritian(~euleritia@dynamic-176-006-178-248.176.6.pool.telefonica.de)
2024-02-26 19:55:54 +0100bontaq(~user@ool-45779c03.dyn.optonline.net)
2024-02-26 20:00:02 +0100leah2(~leah@vuxu.org)
2024-02-26 20:08:46 +0100sadie-sorceress(~sadie-sor@199.96.187.158) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2024-02-26 20:18:30 +0100sord937(~sord937@gateway/tor-sasl/sord937) (Quit: sord937)
2024-02-26 20:19:11 +0100sadie-sorceress(~sadie-sor@199.96.187.158)
2024-02-26 20:23:07 +0100billchenchina(~billchenc@2a0d:2580:ff0c:1:e3c9:c52b:a429:5bfe) (Quit: Leaving)
2024-02-26 20:26:44 +0100jle`(~jle`@2603-8001-3b02-84d4-a02d-ef9e-4d2d-943a.res6.spectrum.com)
2024-02-26 20:33:35 +0100son0p(~ff@181.237.199.182) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2024-02-26 20:33:56 +0100dcoutts(~duncan@cpc69402-oxfd27-2-0-cust903.4-3.cable.virginm.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2024-02-26 20:35:04 +0100 <Athas> Is anyone familiar with a problem regarding a missing 'fpstring.h' header when building bytestring 0.12.1.0 on Windows?
2024-02-26 20:35:08 +0100Square(~Square@user/square)
2024-02-26 20:35:35 +0100tzh(~tzh@c-73-164-206-160.hsd1.or.comcast.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2024-02-26 20:35:51 +0100tzh(~tzh@c-73-164-206-160.hsd1.or.comcast.net)
2024-02-26 20:36:12 +0100Etabeta1(~Etabeta1@151.30.13.43)
2024-02-26 20:38:22 +0100peterbecich(~Thunderbi@047-229-123-186.res.spectrum.com)
2024-02-26 20:38:59 +0100Square2(~Square4@user/square) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2024-02-26 20:41:42 +0100rvalue(~rvalue@user/rvalue) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2024-02-26 20:43:26 +0100sadie-sorceress(~sadie-sor@199.96.187.158) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2024-02-26 20:44:20 +0100sadie-sorceress(~sadie-sor@199.96.187.158)
2024-02-26 20:47:10 +0100a51(a51@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/a51)
2024-02-26 20:49:41 +0100peterbecich(~Thunderbi@047-229-123-186.res.spectrum.com) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2024-02-26 20:51:41 +0100rvalue(~rvalue@user/rvalue)
2024-02-26 20:54:42 +0100sadie-sorceress(~sadie-sor@199.96.187.158) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2024-02-26 21:05:41 +0100dhil(~dhil@2001:8e0:2014:3100:df13:322c:fb9d:5ab4) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2024-02-26 21:09:20 +0100coot(~coot@89-69-206-216.dynamic.chello.pl) (Quit: coot)
2024-02-26 21:09:49 +0100euleritian(~euleritia@dynamic-176-006-178-248.176.6.pool.telefonica.de) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2024-02-26 21:10:06 +0100euleritian(~euleritia@ip4d16fc38.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de)
2024-02-26 21:18:30 +0100sadie-sorceress(~sadie-sor@199.96.191.158)
2024-02-26 21:31:38 +0100Guest31(~Guest31@2600-6c5a-67f0-2b40-7d60-793d-37f6-c936.inf6.spectrum.com)
2024-02-26 21:32:32 +0100Guest31(~Guest31@2600-6c5a-67f0-2b40-7d60-793d-37f6-c936.inf6.spectrum.com) (Client Quit)
2024-02-26 21:34:27 +0100tromp(~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2024-02-26 21:35:10 +0100waleee(~waleee@h-176-10-144-38.NA.cust.bahnhof.se)
2024-02-26 21:36:08 +0100tromp(~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl)
2024-02-26 21:40:12 +0100sadie-sorceress(~sadie-sor@199.96.191.158) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2024-02-26 21:54:06 +0100mud(~mud@user/kadoban) (Remote host closed the connection)
2024-02-26 21:54:31 +0100mud(~mud@user/kadoban)
2024-02-26 21:54:51 +0100Guest18(~Guest34@2409:40f2:121:6663:6c91:c80:e3e4:13e3)
2024-02-26 21:55:19 +0100Guest18(~Guest34@2409:40f2:121:6663:6c91:c80:e3e4:13e3) (Client Quit)
2024-02-26 21:56:34 +0100alexherbo2(~alexherbo@246.149.22.93.rev.sfr.net)
2024-02-26 22:08:54 +0100zetef(~quassel@95.77.17.251)
2024-02-26 22:09:30 +0100_ht(~Thunderbi@28-52-174-82.ftth.glasoperator.nl) (Remote host closed the connection)
2024-02-26 22:13:41 +0100thegeekinside(~thegeekin@189.217.83.221) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2024-02-26 22:16:09 +0100thegeekinside(~thegeekin@189.217.83.221)
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2024-02-26 22:25:00 +0100zetef(~quassel@5.2.182.98)
2024-02-26 22:29:59 +0100zetef(~quassel@5.2.182.98) (Remote host closed the connection)
2024-02-26 22:30:39 +0100michalz(~michalz@185.246.207.203) (Quit: ZNC 1.8.2 - https://znc.in)
2024-02-26 22:36:42 +0100takuan(~takuan@178-116-218-225.access.telenet.be) (Remote host closed the connection)
2024-02-26 22:41:23 +0100jargon(~jargon@111.sub-174-205-228.myvzw.com)
2024-02-26 22:43:31 +0100son0p(~ff@152.202.59.136)
2024-02-26 22:50:01 +0100dcoutts(~duncan@cpc69402-oxfd27-2-0-cust903.4-3.cable.virginm.net)
2024-02-26 22:54:55 +0100wootehfoot(~wootehfoo@user/wootehfoot) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2024-02-26 22:56:17 +0100target_i(~target_i@217.175.14.39) (Quit: leaving)
2024-02-26 22:57:28 +0100xff0x_(~xff0x@2405:6580:b080:900:d30c:4575:4277:ae30) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2024-02-26 22:59:13 +0100xff0x(~xff0x@ai082039.d.east.v6connect.net)
2024-02-26 23:15:38 +0100alexherbo2(~alexherbo@246.149.22.93.rev.sfr.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2024-02-26 23:15:58 +0100alexherbo2(~alexherbo@2a02-8440-3240-083a-ccfc-4169-05b1-cd4d.rev.sfr.net)
2024-02-26 23:20:04 +0100Etabeta1(~Etabeta1@151.30.13.43) (Changing host)
2024-02-26 23:20:04 +0100Etabeta1(~Etabeta1@user/Etabeta1)
2024-02-26 23:22:04 +0100tromp(~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2024-02-26 23:28:59 +0100[itchyjunk](~itchyjunk@user/itchyjunk/x-7353470)
2024-02-26 23:30:46 +0100hgolden(~hgolden@2603-8000-9d00-3ed1-2678-8497-aa5c-7fa9.res6.spectrum.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
2024-02-26 23:31:06 +0100hgolden(~hgolden@2603-8000-9d00-3ed1-2678-8497-aa5c-7fa9.res6.spectrum.com)
2024-02-26 23:31:20 +0100son0p(~ff@152.202.59.136) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2024-02-26 23:34:09 +0100__monty__(~toonn@user/toonn) (Quit: leaving)
2024-02-26 23:40:42 +0100machinedgod(~machinedg@d173-183-246-216.abhsia.telus.net)
2024-02-26 23:41:17 +0100Square(~Square@user/square) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2024-02-26 23:54:19 +0100dsrt^(~cd@c-98-242-74-66.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2024-02-26 23:54:46 +0100dsrt^(~cd@c-98-242-74-66.hsd1.ga.comcast.net)
2024-02-26 23:57:25 +0100gmg(~user@user/gehmehgeh) (Quit: Leaving)