2024/02/22

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2024-02-22 00:32:24 +0000shapr(~user@c-24-218-186-89.hsd1.ma.comcast.net)
2024-02-22 00:52:50 +0000 <sm> ph88: I see you got it resolved (corrupted stack.yaml.lock and old Cabal bug 😅)
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2024-02-22 09:15:53 +0000ski(~ski@ext-1-033.eduroam.chalmers.se) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2024-02-22 09:15:55 +0000 <julie_pilgrim> hi im new to haskell and im wondering what the best way of debugging it would be? im looking for something like GDB but for haskell
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2024-02-22 09:39:38 +0000akegalj(~akegalj@78-1-162-30.adsl.net.t-com.hr)
2024-02-22 09:41:21 +0000 <dminuoso> Well, you *can* use gdb/lldb with GHC Haskell.
2024-02-22 09:41:32 +0000 <dminuoso> GHCi can also be used, the wiki has some information on that.
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2024-02-22 12:58:02 +0000 <ph88> sm, yes thank you for thinking along <3
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2024-02-22 14:36:18 +0000 <cheater> so what happened to hott
2024-02-22 14:36:21 +0000 <cheater> did it fizzle out
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2024-02-22 14:43:06 +0000 <int-e> Voevodsky died in 2017, which was a huge setback, because (afaik) he was the main visionary in that area. It's certainly not dead though.
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2024-02-22 14:54:43 +0000 <ncf> hott is doing well
2024-02-22 14:55:26 +0000bontaq(~user@ool-45779c03.dyn.optonline.net)
2024-02-22 14:56:20 +0000sproutremembers something vaguely about proving some small algebraic structures equal
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2024-02-22 16:46:43 +0000 <chymera> hi guys, I gave haskell a try on account of hating object salad. I thought that being “functional” it would avoid that. But I see a lot of usage of `class` and `instance`, am I understanding the difference between functional and object-oriented programming incorrectly?
2024-02-22 16:47:31 +0000 <dolio> Those aren't really like the OO class and instance.
2024-02-22 16:49:34 +0000L29Ah(~L29Ah@wikipedia/L29Ah) ()
2024-02-22 16:50:49 +0000 <dolio> A class identifies a collection of types that support an overloaded API. And an instance is such a type, with its implementation of the API.
2024-02-22 16:56:36 +0000 <geekosaur> an example of this is the class Functor, which is defined by `fmap :: (a -> b) -> f a -> f b` with specific laws. every Functor has its own specific implementation, but they all follow the same laws
2024-02-22 16:57:29 +0000 <geekosaur> I still consider the use of OO-like terms to describe this unfortunate, especially when it's stretched even further ("superclasses", which aren't), but here we are
2024-02-22 16:58:47 +0000danse-nr3(~danse@151.57.174.252) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2024-02-22 17:00:11 +0000 <EvanR> and they called return return when it doesn't!
2024-02-22 17:00:13 +0000 <EvanR> smh
2024-02-22 17:00:49 +0000 <EvanR> they should've doubled down and called function application dependency injection
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2024-02-22 17:10:16 +0000 <dolio> What else should they be called?
2024-02-22 17:11:24 +0000_ht(~Thunderbi@28-52-174-82.ftth.glasoperator.nl)
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2024-02-22 17:11:33 +0000 <dolio> Like, what people would normally refer to a 'superclass' in Haskell must contain all the types in the, 'subclass,' just like you'd expect from sub/super in math.
2024-02-22 17:11:56 +0000komikat(~user@218.185.248.66)
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2024-02-22 17:12:43 +0000 <dolio> That could be accidentally true for classes that aren't declared to be related, but because of open world assumptions you can never be sure.
2024-02-22 17:14:22 +0000 <EvanR> if someone gives you two objects and says they're in the same class or instances of the same class, OOP person probably concludes they're not instances of any other class
2024-02-22 17:14:27 +0000 <EvanR> while math person wouldn't
2024-02-22 17:14:39 +0000 <EvanR> I blame oop for using confusing terminology way back when it was invented
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2024-02-22 17:17:00 +0000 <dolio> I don't think that's even true in OOP.
2024-02-22 17:19:24 +0000 <dolio> But I also don't care about designing my use of terminology around some other group of people making mistakes about their use of the same terminology.
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2024-02-22 17:45:23 +0000 <int-e> "class" is not primarily a mathematical term
2024-02-22 17:46:48 +0000 <int-e> (I'm kind of serious; with this attitude, mathematicians should be the first to be accused of misusing terminology. Set is a stretch; there's nothing natural about natural numbers or real about real numebrs; and don't get me started on rings and fields. And the list goes on forever.)
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2024-02-22 23:18:02 +0000sinbad(~sinbad@user/sinbad) ()
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2024-02-22 23:40:16 +0000 <haskellbridge> <i​rregularsphere> chymera: first off, don't hate on object salad; second, think of "class"es as interfaces and "instance"s as implementing the interface
2024-02-22 23:47:07 +0000 <haskellbridge> <i​rregularsphere> int-e: shouldn't it be the same for OOP? what's abstract about an abstractfactory
2024-02-22 23:47:44 +0000 <haskellbridge> <i​rregularsphere> I suspect that these terminologies developed separately on their own and they're coincidentally the same
2024-02-22 23:50:24 +0000 <int-e> "shouldn't it be the same" - yes. Many fields just borrow english words (many of which were borrowed from somewhere else) and give them their own specific meaning.
2024-02-22 23:59:30 +0000L29Ah(~L29Ah@wikipedia/L29Ah)
2024-02-22 23:59:40 +0000emmanuelux(~emmanuelu@user/emmanuelux)