2023/12/24

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2023-12-24 00:09:41 +0000 <exarkun> guess I should read the fgl paper
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2023-12-24 00:25:51 +0000 <monochrom> But fgl doesn't build cyclic values for graphs. Not in the sense of "zs = 0 : zs".
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2023-12-24 00:38:36 +0000 <EvanR> it's not clear that zs = 0 : zs is finitely traversable
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2023-12-24 00:39:42 +0000 <EvanR> is zeros ++ [1] finitely traversable
2023-12-24 00:40:58 +0000mxs(~mxs@user/mxs)
2023-12-24 00:41:18 +0000 <ski> `zs = 0 : zs' is clearly equivalent to `zs = 0 : ys where ys = 0 : zs'. should `mapM f' on a similar cyclic structure, with some kind of support for not getting into non-termination when traversing, invoke `f' once or twice ? should `f' be required to be idempotent, somehow ?
2023-12-24 00:41:42 +0000 <geekosaur> I'm not sure you can safely detect even simple cyclic values in Haskell, you'd need reallyUnsafePtrEquality# which is reallyUnsafe for a reason
2023-12-24 00:41:57 +0000 <ski> yes
2023-12-24 00:42:58 +0000 <ski> you can use it as an optimization, to get a shortcut. but really you should give the same result (including bottoms), if you're given two equivalent values which doesn't compare as the same value in the representation
2023-12-24 00:45:26 +0000 <ski> with traversing a cyclic structure, one could imagine a monotonically increasing output, with a fixed point iteration to get a stable result. e.g. determining which nodes are accessible from other nodes in a graph, or say liveness analysis
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2023-12-24 00:51:49 +0000 <ski> of course, you could work with a monad `M' (having `MonadFix M'), with `newIdent :: a -> M (Ident a)',`extractIdent :: Ident a -> a', with `Eq (Ident a)', for having explicit identity of nodes in your cyclic structure, so `mfix \zs -> newIdent (Cons 0 zs)' would yield a result (given say `type List f a = f (Cell f a); data Cell f a = Nil | Cons a (List f a)') of type `List Ident Integer', that compares
2023-12-24 00:51:55 +0000 <ski> inequal to the one generated by `mfix \zs -> do ys <- newIdent (Cons 0 zs); newIdent (Cons 0 ys)'
2023-12-24 00:52:12 +0000emmanuelux(~emmanuelu@user/emmanuelux)
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2023-12-24 00:55:24 +0000 <ski> .. but if you're going to use actual normal cyclic structures, not something like `Ident' above, then the two definitions of `zs' ought to be indistinguishable, from the POV of the language (so not including debugging)
2023-12-24 00:56:06 +0000 <[Leary]> Relevant: <https://www.joachim-breitner.de/blog/807-Left_recursive_parser_combinators_via_sharing>, where he uses `propriocept :: (Unique -> a) -> a` to (unsafely) make sharing observable.
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2023-12-24 01:01:49 +0000TonyStone(~TonyStone@074-076-057-186.res.spectrum.com)
2023-12-24 01:02:11 +0000 <ski> yea, `propriocept :: (Unique -> a) -> a' looks similar/reminiscent to `newCyclicIORef :: (IORef a -> a) -> IO (IORef a)' (translated into Haskell terms from `:- pred new_cyclic_mutvar((func(generic_mutvar(T,S)) = T)::in,generic_mutvar(T,S)::out,S::di,S::uo) is det <= store(S).') in Mercury, <https://www.mercurylang.org/information/doc-latest/mercury_library/store.html>
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2023-12-24 01:02:59 +0000 <ski> (though that one avoids the `unsafePerformIO', since the result is in `IO')
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2023-12-24 01:05:52 +0000 <ski> "The fix (sic!) is to make sure that the recursive call is using the parser we are currently defining, which we can easily do with a local definition" -- yea, this breaks equational reasoning :(
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2023-12-24 06:47:33 +0000 <Inst> i currently have a retry function that threaddelays for 5 seconds before retrying
2023-12-24 06:47:56 +0000 <Inst> it's written as print SomeException >> threadDelay 5_000_000 >> call the catcher again
2023-12-24 06:48:07 +0000 <Inst> I get the feeling this is causing space leaks, any possible alternatives?
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2023-12-24 07:22:31 +0000 <monochrom> Do you already know of the considerations listed in my https://www.vex.net/~trebla/haskell/exception-tutorial.xhtml#catch ? Especially the 3rd one.
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2023-12-24 07:26:19 +0000 <Inst> No, but thanks for being helpful despite differences we've had in the past.
2023-12-24 07:28:03 +0000 <Inst> I'm enjoying getting free education from your alma without any admissions requirements. :)
2023-12-24 07:28:13 +0000 <Inst> /s/alma/employer
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2023-12-24 08:09:09 +0000Fallon(sid630121@id-630121.helmsley.irccloud.com)
2023-12-24 08:12:16 +0000 <Fallon> https://porn.jules-aubert.info/humble_bundle
2023-12-24 08:12:17 +0000 <Fallon> https://porn.jules-aubert.info/the_manga_guides
2023-12-24 08:14:21 +0000Fallon(sid630121@id-630121.helmsley.irccloud.com) ()
2023-12-24 08:15:49 +0000 <haskellbridge> 15<J​ade> geekosaur / @mods
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2023-12-24 08:38:50 +0000 <haskellbridge> 05<i​rregularsphere> these bots exist on IRC?
2023-12-24 08:50:19 +0000waldo(~waldo@user/waldo)
2023-12-24 08:50:30 +0000 <haskellbridge> 05<i​rregularsphere> so i (for some reason) sorted uno cards
2023-12-24 08:50:51 +0000_ht(~Thunderbi@28-52-174-82.ftth.glasoperator.nl)
2023-12-24 08:50:53 +0000 <haskellbridge> 05<i​rregularsphere> i discovered that you can amalgamate the `ascending` and `descending` procedure into one
2023-12-24 08:50:55 +0000 <haskellbridge> 05<i​rregularsphere> https://play-haskell.tomsmeding.com/saved/3MtsSQ2S
2023-12-24 08:51:05 +0000 <haskellbridge> 05<i​rregularsphere> can anyone benchmark this? :P
2023-12-24 08:51:17 +0000machinedgod(~machinedg@d198-53-218-113.abhsia.telus.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2023-12-24 08:51:20 +0000 <haskellbridge> 05<i​rregularsphere> also compare with `sort`
2023-12-24 08:51:26 +0000 <haskellbridge> 05<i​rregularsphere> or `sortBy`
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2023-12-24 14:17:58 +0000jle`(~jle`@2603-8001-3b02-84d4-f978-47bf-a33f-1cc7.res6.spectrum.com) (Quit: WeeChat 3.8)
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2023-12-24 16:02:20 +0000TonyStone(~TonyStone@074-076-057-186.res.spectrum.com) (Quit: Leaving)
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2023-12-24 16:57:22 +0000[itchyjunk](~itchyjunk@user/itchyjunk/x-7353470)
2023-12-24 16:57:54 +0000gdown(~gavin@h69-11-149-109.kndrid.broadband.dynamic.tds.net)
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2023-12-24 17:09:57 +0000econo_(uid147250@id-147250.tinside.irccloud.com)
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2023-12-24 18:19:24 +0000L29Ah(~L29Ah@wikipedia/L29Ah) ()
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2023-12-24 19:31:15 +0000tromp(~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
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2023-12-24 19:48:06 +0000tromp(~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
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2023-12-24 21:27:43 +0000coot(~coot@89-69-206-216.dynamic.chello.pl) (Quit: coot)
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2023-12-24 22:24:21 +0000tromp(~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
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