2023/12/13

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2023-12-13 00:10:38 +0100 <Axman6> probie: yeah but we're all nerds in this city, hardly average
2023-12-13 00:13:56 +0100 <jjhoo> int-e: yes, geometric. I was on the wikipedia about geometric series... got confused when writing
2023-12-13 00:15:36 +0100pretty_dumm_guy(trottel@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/prettydummguy/x-88029655)
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2023-12-13 01:00:51 +0100sebagutiem(~sebagutie@2800:300:62e1:7fa1:80a7:2aab:4b46:cdd5) (Quit: Me boi a la berga)
2023-12-13 01:03:10 +0100 <EvanR> there's two halves of people in this channel, the below average half that don't understand statistics, and those that do
2023-12-13 01:03:41 +0100oo_miguel(~Thunderbi@78-11-179-96.static.ip.netia.com.pl) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2023-12-13 01:03:47 +0100 <monochrom> heh
2023-12-13 01:08:15 +0100oo_miguel(~Thunderbi@78-11-179-96.static.ip.netia.com.pl)
2023-12-13 01:09:43 +0100leungbk(~user@142-129-149-172.res.spectrum.com)
2023-12-13 01:10:19 +0100 <glguy> ?quote 50%
2023-12-13 01:10:19 +0100 <lambdabot> Tac-Tics says: Haskell is 50% style and 60% research... and -10% code bloat
2023-12-13 01:11:00 +0100Eoco(~ian@128.101.131.218) (Quit: WeeChat 4.1.1)
2023-12-13 01:11:01 +0100 <monochrom> haha cute
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2023-12-13 01:15:33 +0100 <iqubic> If both the Travesable and the Applicative are [], then sequenceA ~ transpose, right?
2023-12-13 01:15:44 +0100 <iqubic> Is that correct?
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2023-12-13 01:30:02 +0100 <iqubic> If both the Travesable and the Applicative are [], then sequenceA ~ transpose, right?
2023-12-13 01:30:08 +0100 <iqubic> I might be wrong about that.
2023-12-13 01:31:24 +0100Square2(~Square4@user/square)
2023-12-13 01:31:35 +0100 <geekosaur> no, because there's a Cartesian product involved in the Applicative
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2023-12-13 01:32:33 +0100Katarushisu1(~Katarushi@cpc147790-finc20-2-0-cust502.4-2.cable.virginm.net)
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2023-12-13 01:32:50 +0100 <monochrom> You can easily come up with a simple test case.
2023-12-13 01:33:20 +0100araujo(~araujo@45.146.54.162)
2023-12-13 01:33:41 +0100Square(~Square@user/square) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2023-12-13 01:34:16 +0100 <[Leary]> @check \xss -> sequenceA xss == transpose xss
2023-12-13 01:34:17 +0100 <lambdabot> *** Failed! Falsifiable (after 1 test):
2023-12-13 01:34:17 +0100 <lambdabot> []
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2023-12-13 02:08:34 +0100 <glguy> [Leary]: I think perhaps the only time that's true is for [[x]]
2023-12-13 02:09:05 +0100 <glguy> @check \xss -> sequenceA xss /= transpose xss
2023-12-13 02:09:06 +0100 <lambdabot> *** Failed! Falsifiable (after 2 tests and 1 shrink):
2023-12-13 02:09:06 +0100 <lambdabot> [[()]]
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2023-12-13 02:16:01 +0100 <Joao003> Am I the only one that uses `toEnum' to coerce types of class `Enum'?
2023-12-13 02:20:40 +0100 <monochrom> s/coerce/convert/ but nothing wrong with toEnum.
2023-12-13 02:22:22 +0100johnw(~johnw@69.62.242.138)
2023-12-13 02:23:54 +0100 <mosul> 9
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2023-12-13 04:38:42 +0100 <Square2> What would you say is the biggest reason Haskell hasn't gained more industry use?
2023-12-13 04:40:24 +0100Unicorn_Princess(~Unicorn_P@user/Unicorn-Princess/x-3540542) (Quit: Leaving)
2023-12-13 04:42:16 +0100 <c_wraith> it requires learning something actually new, instead of another syntax for C or perl
2023-12-13 04:42:34 +0100 <c_wraith> that terrifies people who are really into words like "meritocracy"
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2023-12-13 05:03:55 +0100 <haskellbridge> 06<s​m> good question.. the most often state reason is difficulty of hiring (large numbers of cheap) developers
2023-12-13 05:05:19 +0100 <Square2> c_wraith, I feel there must be other reasons. Manay developers who get into Haskell fall in love with it. Me included. I wonder if you end up in hard to debug situations. Or some friction that shows up in enterprise situations. Just guessing.
2023-12-13 05:05:33 +0100 <haskellbridge> 06<s​m> another is just the perception and somewhat fact that it's too exotic and risky, industry usually has a limited novelty budget
2023-12-13 05:06:07 +0100 <haskellbridge> 06<s​m> another is the reputed frequency and difficulty of avoiding space leaks and memory hogging
2023-12-13 05:06:18 +0100 <EvanR> haskell is ivory tower nonsense you need a PhD to understand. And there are way too many operators
2023-12-13 05:06:29 +0100 <EvanR> actual testimony
2023-12-13 05:07:17 +0100 <haskellbridge> 06<s​m> but it's getting there
2023-12-13 05:07:42 +0100 <haskellbridge> 06<s​m> (industry)
2023-12-13 05:10:52 +0100 <Square2> sm, thanks for your input.
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2023-12-13 05:29:21 +0100 <probie> Square2: There are gaps in the ecosystem, the tooling is nothing exceptional, and it's very easy to forget to add a strictness annotation somewhere and end up with a space leak
2023-12-13 05:30:23 +0100 <Square2> probie, Do you have an example of "gaps in the ecosystem"?
2023-12-13 05:31:30 +0100 <probie> Most recently, I couldn't find a GraphQL server library that I was comfortable with using in production
2023-12-13 05:36:24 +0100aforemny_(~aforemny@i59F516CF.versanet.de)
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2023-12-13 05:37:20 +0100 <probie> Also, I don't think there's up to date llvm bindings, which isn't a show stopper for an AOT compiler (just do what GHC does and generate the LLVM IR yourself), but that's not good enough if you writing an interpreter and want to use LLVM as a JIT
2023-12-13 05:38:37 +0100 <probie> At least last time I checked, the machine learning libraries available weren't that great (although I think hasktorch is getting better)
2023-12-13 05:43:44 +0100 <probie> Also, being insufficiently mainstream means that most third party services you might want to integrate with won't have a Haskell SDK, which can be an issue if their "REST API" is poorly documented
2023-12-13 05:50:00 +0100tri(~tri@ool-18bc2e74.dyn.optonline.net)
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2023-12-13 05:59:27 +0100 <probie> and back to gaps - there's not really any maintained GIS libraries (at least not that I could find)
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2023-12-13 06:51:07 +0100 <phma> I'm preparing a library package for first release. It consists of two modules which I expect people to import, seven internal modules, a main program, two modules used by the main program, and a test suite.
2023-12-13 06:51:39 +0100 <phma> Do the internal modules count as API for the purpose of changing the version number?
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2023-12-13 08:01:03 +0100danza(~danza@151.35.242.228)
2023-12-13 08:03:53 +0100 <haskellbridge> 06<s​m> hmm.. if they're exposed, ie visible in the haddocks on hackage, I think they do, even if you call them Foor.Internal.Bar
2023-12-13 08:04:00 +0100 <haskellbridge> 06<s​m> if not exposed, then no
2023-12-13 08:04:18 +0100acidjnk_new(~acidjnk@p200300d6e72b9355dc7c5b25c70fbc45.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2023-12-13 08:04:36 +0100mikess(~sam@user/mikess)
2023-12-13 08:08:49 +0100Inst(~Inst@129.126.215.52)
2023-12-13 08:08:55 +0100 <Inst> lol, I'm out in sunny Singapore, and I'm dressed for Beijing
2023-12-13 08:09:04 +0100 <Inst> nope, don't worry, have no intent to meet anyone here :3
2023-12-13 08:09:26 +0100 <Inst> Anyways, do you guys know how to debug this issue with ghcup?
2023-12-13 08:09:39 +0100 <Inst> /usr/bin/ld.gold: error: cannot find -lgmp
2023-12-13 08:09:56 +0100 <mauke> install libgmp?
2023-12-13 08:10:53 +0100 <danza> are you a nomading haskeller now Inst?
2023-12-13 08:13:01 +0100euleritian(~euleritia@dynamic-046-114-201-065.46.114.pool.telefonica.de) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2023-12-13 08:13:20 +0100euleritian(~euleritia@ip4d16fc38.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de)
2023-12-13 08:13:25 +0100 <Inst> it should be working
2023-12-13 08:14:33 +0100 <Inst> “Kiyoaki Matsugae was caught by unpredictable love, Isao Iinuma by destiny, Ying Chan by the flesh. And you?” (p206)
2023-12-13 08:14:40 +0100 <Inst> @danza
2023-12-13 08:14:40 +0100 <lambdabot> Unknown command, try @list
2023-12-13 08:14:43 +0100 <Inst> Sorry about being neglectful
2023-12-13 08:15:15 +0100mechap(~mechap@user/mechap) (Quit: WeeChat 4.1.2)
2023-12-13 08:15:39 +0100 <Inst> and no, it's not the streamer, although she got back to me ("I'm learning foreign languages, but I'll also take up an interest in computer science" [after I sent her HTDP, SICP, various Haskell books, some Py books)
2023-12-13 08:15:47 +0100 <Inst> something darker
2023-12-13 08:16:08 +0100 <phma> sm: how do I make them visible or not? It's not on Hackage yet; I haven't even tagged a release.
2023-12-13 08:16:10 +0100 <danza> “Kiyoaki Matsugae was caught by unpredictable love, Isao Iinuma by destiny, Ying Chan by the flesh. And you?”
2023-12-13 08:16:22 +0100 <danza> don't know... Mishima?
2023-12-13 08:17:21 +0100 <Inst> yayaya
2023-12-13 08:17:35 +0100 <Inst> god I love you guys, best culture ever <3
2023-12-13 08:18:25 +0100 <haskellbridge> 06<s​m> phma: you list each module in the cabal file as either an exposed file or other file (IIRC)
2023-12-13 08:18:25 +0100evj(~evj@206.174.176.219) (Quit: My MacBook Air has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2023-12-13 08:18:32 +0100 <haskellbridge> 06<s​m> other are hidden
2023-12-13 08:19:06 +0100 <phma> sm: what do I do in package.yaml?
2023-12-13 08:19:30 +0100 <haskellbridge> 06<s​m> it's similar there.. check the hpack readme
2023-12-13 08:19:38 +0100 <phma> ok
2023-12-13 08:20:01 +0100 <haskellbridge> 06<s​m> https://github.com/sol/hpack#library-fields
2023-12-13 08:21:41 +0100danza(~danza@151.35.242.228) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2023-12-13 08:22:15 +0100euleritian(~euleritia@ip4d16fc38.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2023-12-13 08:22:45 +0100euleritian(~euleritia@dynamic-046-114-201-065.46.114.pool.telefonica.de)
2023-12-13 08:22:50 +0100 <mauke> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2NXAk-XkoQ
2023-12-13 08:34:53 +0100danza(~danza@151.37.248.30)
2023-12-13 08:35:25 +0100 <ski> > (map getZipList . getZipList . sequenceA . ZipList . map ZipList) [[0,1,2],[3,4,5],[6,7,8]] -- iqubic, "If both the Travesable and the Applicative are [], then sequenceA ~ transpose, right?"
2023-12-13 08:35:26 +0100 <lambdabot> [[0,3,6],[1,4,7],[2,5,8]]
2023-12-13 08:35:51 +0100 <danza> what did you refer to with "it's not the streamer [...] something darker"? Inst
2023-12-13 08:38:47 +0100Inst(~Inst@129.126.215.52) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2023-12-13 08:47:58 +0100todi(~todi@p5dca55c4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2023-12-13 08:49:38 +0100 <danza> what did you refer to with "it's not the streamer [...] something darker"? Inst (repeating because i think your connection was down)
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2023-12-13 14:57:48 +0100igemnace(~ian@user/igemnace)
2023-12-13 14:58:06 +0100 <hasevil> Hey guys, Is there a way to selectively insert values in a list of a custom type from another list of custom types.
2023-12-13 14:58:11 +0100 <hasevil> WIP code https://paste.tomsmeding.com/aJC39Oow
2023-12-13 14:58:12 +0100alexherbo2(~alexherbo@2a02-8440-3241-bb55-cd5d-3ba7-e22e-8475.rev.sfr.net)
2023-12-13 14:58:53 +0100dwt_(~dwt_@2601:2c6:8381:e5c:945:c021:4cfd:54e5)
2023-12-13 15:00:00 +0100 <carbolymer> but do you want to get them out later?
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2023-12-13 15:06:02 +0100 <hasevil> carbolymer: ?
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2023-12-13 17:05:32 +0100lortabac(~lortabac@2a01:e0a:541:b8f0:55ab:e185:7f81:54a4) (Quit: WeeChat 4.1.1)
2023-12-13 17:07:07 +0100tri(~tri@ool-18bbef1a.static.optonline.net)
2023-12-13 17:08:08 +0100tri_(~tri@ool-18bbef1a.static.optonline.net)
2023-12-13 17:13:56 +0100 <haskellbridge> 12<C​elestial> you can match on your list like `[str1, str2, str3]`, which would make the code a lot cleaner for a start
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2023-12-13 19:52:54 +0100d34df00d(~d34df00d@2600:1702:4f1b:7c10::43)
2023-12-13 19:52:57 +0100 <d34df00d> Hi!
2023-12-13 19:53:25 +0100 <d34df00d> How do I lens-golf a `Lens' a b` into a `Lens' (Maybe a) (Maybe b)`? Or a Getter instead of a Lens', if that's simpler.
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2023-12-13 19:54:11 +0100evj(~evj@206.174.176.219)
2023-12-13 19:56:18 +0100 <glguy> > Just ('a','b') ^? folded . _2
2023-12-13 19:56:20 +0100 <lambdabot> Just 'b'
2023-12-13 19:56:46 +0100 <glguy> > Just ('a','b') %~ mapped . _2 $ succ
2023-12-13 19:56:48 +0100 <lambdabot> error:
2023-12-13 19:56:48 +0100 <lambdabot> • Couldn't match type ‘Maybe (Char, Char)’
2023-12-13 19:56:48 +0100 <lambdabot> with ‘((a1 -> f1 b1) -> Identity (f0 a0 -> f1 (f0 b0)))
2023-12-13 19:57:19 +0100 <glguy> It's been a while since I lensed
2023-12-13 19:57:31 +0100 <d34df00d> I wish I didn't have to lens.
2023-12-13 19:58:34 +0100 <glguy> > over (mapped . _2) succ (Just ('a','b'))
2023-12-13 19:58:35 +0100 <lambdabot> Just ('a','c')
2023-12-13 19:59:15 +0100 <glguy> ah!
2023-12-13 19:59:15 +0100 <glguy> > mapped . _2 %~ succ $ Just ('a','b')
2023-12-13 19:59:17 +0100 <lambdabot> Just ('a','c')
2023-12-13 19:59:28 +0100 <d34df00d> gosh
2023-12-13 19:59:45 +0100 <d34df00d> I only need to get the field anyway, so I'll probably stick with folded.
2023-12-13 19:59:47 +0100 <d34df00d> and ^?
2023-12-13 19:59:50 +0100 <d34df00d> Whatever that all means.
2023-12-13 19:59:50 +0100 <glguy> but you can't quite get a lens because you couldn't replace the Nothing with some Just b and get a sensible Just a
2023-12-13 20:01:09 +0100tri(~tri@ool-18bbef1a.static.optonline.net)
2023-12-13 20:01:28 +0100 <ncf> (note that that's `Lens' (Maybe a) b`, not `Lens' (Maybe a) (Maybe b)`)
2023-12-13 20:02:34 +0100 <d34df00d> Eh.
2023-12-13 20:02:55 +0100tri_(~tri@ool-18bbef1a.static.optonline.net)
2023-12-13 20:03:40 +0100 <d34df00d> Yeah, doesn't type check.
2023-12-13 20:03:53 +0100 <ncf> er, Fold' (Maybe a) b i guess
2023-12-13 20:04:10 +0100 <ncf> or Traversal' (Maybe a) b if you use traversed
2023-12-13 20:04:31 +0100ChaiTRex(~ChaiTRex@user/chaitrex) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2023-12-13 20:05:27 +0100 <d34df00d> So if I have `foo :: Lens' Env (Maybe Field)` and `bar :: Lens' Field Subfield`, how do I get a Getter (or something that can be passed to `view`, say) that'll take me from Env to Maybe Subfield?
2023-12-13 20:05:27 +0100YoungFrog(~youngfrog@2a02:a03f:ca07:f900:c769:b1a6:f76f:83d)
2023-12-13 20:06:55 +0100ChaiTRex(~ChaiTRex@user/chaitrex)
2023-12-13 20:07:39 +0100 <ncf> one way is to do foo.folded.bar as glguy suggested, which gets you a Fold' Env Subfield, from which you can get a function Env -> Maybe Subfield using `preview`
2023-12-13 20:07:58 +0100Guest40(~Guest40@2401:4900:1cb8:c5b:c8df:fb65:915b:3258)
2023-12-13 20:08:44 +0100 <kaol> https://github.com/frasertweedale/hs-jose/pull/120 I wrote some Haskell. We needed JWE support at work and I had spare time to expand on it.
2023-12-13 20:08:50 +0100tri(~tri@ool-18bbef1a.static.optonline.net) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2023-12-13 20:08:53 +0100peterbecich(~Thunderbi@047-229-123-186.res.spectrum.com) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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2023-12-13 20:09:47 +0100 <d34df00d> Ah, preview was missing!
2023-12-13 20:10:02 +0100nickiminjaj(~nickiminj@user/laxhh)
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2023-12-13 20:13:22 +0100 <d34df00d> ncf: glguy: thank you folks.
2023-12-13 20:14:42 +0100 <haskellbridge> 12<C​elestial> (I don't know anything about lenses really, so please excuse my ignorance)
2023-12-13 20:14:42 +0100 <haskellbridge> 12<C​elestial> is there not some way to "combine" these using something like `view bar <$> view foo`?
2023-12-13 20:15:05 +0100tri(~tri@ool-18bbef1a.static.optonline.net)
2023-12-13 20:15:35 +0100 <ncf> d34df00d: another way is foo.pre(folded.bar), which gets you a Getter' Env (Maybe Subfield) which you can use with (^.)
2023-12-13 20:16:04 +0100 <monochrom> kaol: Methinks they missed the opportunity of naming it "hose" instead of "jose". >:)
2023-12-13 20:16:53 +0100 <d34df00d> I really really need to catch up on lenses, especially since the code base I'm working on rn relies on them somewhat.
2023-12-13 20:17:02 +0100 <ncf> another way is what Celestial suggests, i.e. just get the field and then fmap your other getter on it
2023-12-13 20:17:12 +0100 <kaol> It wouldn't be doing favors for discoverability. Several other languages have libraries that have jose in their names.
2023-12-13 20:17:21 +0100tri_(~tri@ool-18bbef1a.static.optonline.net)
2023-12-13 20:17:40 +0100 <monochrom> :(
2023-12-13 20:17:54 +0100 <kaol> Yeah, I'm no fun.
2023-12-13 20:20:33 +0100Putonlalla(~Putonlall@it-cyan.it.jyu.fi)
2023-12-13 20:21:41 +0100 <kaol> I'm a bit surprised that nobody else had yet had a go at adding JWE support. But I guess open source means that sometimes that someone just has to be you.
2023-12-13 20:21:55 +0100tri_(~tri@ool-18bbef1a.static.optonline.net) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2023-12-13 20:22:02 +0100 <monochrom> Yeah absolutely.
2023-12-13 20:22:19 +0100 <monochrom> Well, under the volunteer model.
2023-12-13 20:22:20 +0100 <kaol> https://xkcd.com/2347/
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2023-12-13 20:23:27 +0100harshmahajan(~harshmaha@2401:4900:1cb8:c5b:c8df:fb65:915b:3258)
2023-12-13 20:23:45 +0100 <monochrom> You know, the corporate model suffers the equivalent problem one-company-going-bust-collapses-everything.
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2023-12-13 21:25:42 +0100Tuplanolla(~Tuplanoll@91-159-68-236.elisa-laajakaista.fi)
2023-12-13 21:26:46 +0100 <ggVGc> what is haskellbridge bridging with?
2023-12-13 21:27:00 +0100 <geekosaur> #haskell-irc:matrix.org
2023-12-13 21:27:03 +0100 <ggVGc> Haven't kpt up with the times
2023-12-13 21:27:06 +0100 <ggVGc> ah, right, makes sense
2023-12-13 21:27:27 +0100 <ggVGc> Was hoping it wasn't a discord channel...
2023-12-13 21:27:59 +0100 <geekosaur> yeh, I'm only doing matrix, at least so far
2023-12-13 21:28:22 +0100tri(~tri@ool-18bbef1a.static.optonline.net)
2023-12-13 21:29:41 +0100mobivme(~mobivme@112.201.111.217)
2023-12-13 21:33:10 +0100tri(~tri@ool-18bbef1a.static.optonline.net) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2023-12-13 21:34:35 +0100waleee(~waleee@h-176-10-144-38.NA.cust.bahnhof.se)
2023-12-13 21:37:45 +0100CiaoSen(~Jura@2a05:5800:283:6400:ca4b:d6ff:fec1:99da)
2023-12-13 21:40:23 +0100 <haskellbridge> 12<C​elestial> hello from matrix side :)
2023-12-13 21:43:06 +0100Square(~Square@user/square)
2023-12-13 21:44:20 +0100__monty_1(~toonn@user/toonn)
2023-12-13 21:45:20 +0100tri(~tri@ool-18bbef1a.static.optonline.net)
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2023-12-13 21:49:07 +0100 <EvanR> operator here, we're working on getting you out of the matrix
2023-12-13 21:49:46 +0100 <monochrom> hee hee
2023-12-13 21:50:37 +0100coot(~coot@89-69-206-216.dynamic.chello.pl)
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2023-12-13 21:52:04 +0100 <haskellbridge> 12<C​elestial> I will take the purple pill (im grinding the red and blue pills into dist and putting them back into one pill)
2023-12-13 21:52:27 +0100trev(~trev@user/trev) (Quit: trev)
2023-12-13 21:52:46 +0100 <haskellbridge> 12<C​elestial> s/dist/dust
2023-12-13 21:52:57 +0100tri(~tri@ool-18bbef1a.static.optonline.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2023-12-13 21:53:10 +0100 <monochrom> Um that should give you two pills...
2023-12-13 21:53:19 +0100evj(~evj@206.174.176.219)
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2023-12-13 21:53:35 +0100 <exarkun> some always ends up on the floor
2023-12-13 21:53:47 +0100 <monochrom> But I guess you can then run the Banach-Tarski theorem backwards and transform two into one.
2023-12-13 21:54:07 +0100dcoutts(~duncan@cpc69402-oxfd27-2-0-cust903.4-3.cable.virginm.net) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2023-12-13 21:54:35 +0100waldo(~waldo@user/waldo) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2023-12-13 21:54:56 +0100 <haskellbridge> 12<C​elestial> one big pill
2023-12-13 21:55:08 +0100eggplantade(~Eggplanta@2600:1700:38c5:d800:c0d1:ef99:e080:d9)
2023-12-13 21:55:18 +0100 <dolio> You can't run the Banach-Tarski theorem. :þ
2023-12-13 21:55:48 +0100waldo(~waldo@user/waldo)
2023-12-13 21:56:40 +0100 <monochrom> But I think a better pun would be to continue the matrix...operator... line and make a superposed qubit pill (1/sqrt(2))red + (1/sqrt(2))blue.
2023-12-13 21:57:44 +0100 <monochrom> "Grinding into dust is so classical and passe"...
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