IRCBrowse

2023/11/03

2023-11-03 00:04:40 +0100 <Axeman6> Re slack1256's question, i wonder how much relevance http://simonmar.github.io/bib/papers/concurrent-data.pdf has today
2023-11-03 00:05:43 +0100Axeman6Axman6
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2023-11-03 00:37:09 +0100Lycurgus(~georg@li1192-118.members.linode.com)
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2023-11-03 00:37:09 +0100Lycurgus(~georg@user/Lycurgus)
2023-11-03 00:40:22 +0100[itchyjunk](~itchyjunk@user/itchyjunk/x-7353470)
2023-11-03 00:43:19 +0100 <liamzy__> hmmm
2023-11-03 00:43:20 +0100liamzy__Inst
2023-11-03 00:43:23 +0100 <Inst> https://neohaskell.org/docs/essentials/types/
2023-11-03 00:43:34 +0100 <Inst> this actually sounds like a good idea for a language extension, i.e, being able to multiply declare newtypes
2023-11-03 00:43:45 +0100 <Inst> coerce also sucks, btw
2023-11-03 00:44:02 +0100 <Inst> well, actually, there's a coerce function operator in Base IIRC
2023-11-03 00:46:20 +0100 <monochrom> I don't see a difference between "cast" and "coerce" apart from someone-wants-to-use-another-name-for-the-sake-of-it.
2023-11-03 00:46:53 +0100 <geekosaur> "it has to be like C for anyone to respect it"
2023-11-03 00:46:54 +0100 <monochrom> What is new in this case?
2023-11-03 00:47:25 +0100 <geekosaur> this got us OverloadedRecordDot, including people who insist that this made Haskell a "real language"
2023-11-03 00:47:40 +0100 <geekosaur> at this rate GHC 13 will be either C or JavaScript
2023-11-03 00:47:55 +0100 <monochrom> C doesn't use the "cast" word either. C's is (int)foo. "cast" would be C++ jargon.
2023-11-03 00:49:49 +0100 <monochrom> I guess correction: C doesn't use the "cast" word in code. It's C++ code.
2023-11-03 00:50:48 +0100 <monochrom> So now it has to be like C++ for anyone to respect it. >:)
2023-11-03 00:50:56 +0100 <monochrom> Either that or C#.
2023-11-03 00:51:49 +0100 <geekosaur> I'm trying to figure out at what point I need to fork Haskell to have it remain Haskell
2023-11-03 00:51:56 +0100 <monochrom> On the "bright" side, I like the name "flat map". >:)
2023-11-03 00:52:02 +0100 <geekosaur> or if that when was OverloadedRecordDot
2023-11-03 00:52:27 +0100 <monochrom> I think you just fork GHC and delete that extension. :)
2023-11-03 00:53:27 +0100pixelmonk(~pixelmonk@50.205.76.66) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2023-11-03 00:56:38 +0100 <EvanR> a cast in C causes a conversion, coercion sounds like only a change of type, which is what coerce effectively does
2023-11-03 00:56:52 +0100 <EvanR> so cast is wrong
2023-11-03 00:56:54 +0100 <geekosaur> it's C++'s reinterpret_cast
2023-11-03 00:56:55 +0100 <EvanR> for that
2023-11-03 00:57:55 +0100 <geekosaur> (and not all C casts cause conversion; the confusing multiple uses of C's casts are why C++ has multiple "cast" operations)
2023-11-03 00:58:23 +0100 <EvanR> the ones that don't really do a conversion do a conversion in my personal platonic C xD
2023-11-03 00:58:43 +0100 <EvanR> a pointer to A casted to pointer to B really means something
2023-11-03 00:59:09 +0100 <geekosaur> what if either A or B is `void`?
2023-11-03 00:59:23 +0100 <EvanR> sure
2023-11-03 01:00:53 +0100 <monochrom> Yeah, I think the conflation came from: On platforms that ignorant people only know, between (int*) and (void*) is just coercion for example. They don't know that there could be (and were) non-identity conversions on some old platforms they don't know about. And this being the whole point why the standard is so open-ended about this.
2023-11-03 01:01:30 +0100 <EvanR> I allow being blown out of the water by language X which calls all their conversion functions coercions and coercing
2023-11-03 01:01:45 +0100 <EvanR> because why wouldn't they
2023-11-03 01:02:04 +0100 <monochrom> What they are really stupid about is that between int and double is already a non-identity conversion as opposed to just reusing the same bits.
2023-11-03 01:02:14 +0100pixelmonk(~pixelmonk@50.205.76.66)
2023-11-03 01:02:53 +0100cmtaur^(~cd@70-88-177-118-Atlanta.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2023-11-03 01:03:41 +0100 <monochrom> But more meta-ly, I am not surprised that English words are casted and/or coerced all the time. >:)
2023-11-03 01:03:55 +0100cmtaur^(~cd@70-88-177-118-Atlanta.hfc.comcastbusiness.net)
2023-11-03 01:04:26 +0100 <EvanR> haskell made my brain explode by having conversions called shocker... conversions, Convertible, with the convert method
2023-11-03 01:05:16 +0100 <jackdk> What is with Haskell using these horrible unintuitive names for things?
2023-11-03 01:05:47 +0100 <monochrom> Because we hate politicians and their lies. >:)
2023-11-03 01:05:54 +0100 <monochrom> intuitive lies!
2023-11-03 01:06:41 +0100 <monochrom> politicians and manager types and similar single-bit organisms
2023-11-03 01:07:43 +0100 <juri_> um. i'm a manager.
2023-11-03 01:07:47 +0100 <juri_> :)
2023-11-03 01:08:08 +0100 <monochrom> But I can agree that the Arrow class is not very intuitive. >:)
2023-11-03 01:08:38 +0100cmtaur^(~cd@70-88-177-118-Atlanta.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2023-11-03 01:08:44 +0100Inst(~Inst@120.244.192.250) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2023-11-03 01:09:04 +0100cmtaur^(~cd@70-88-177-118-Atlanta.hfc.comcastbusiness.net)
2023-11-03 01:09:35 +0100 <juri_> monochrom: some managers read papers all night, and write haskell until too late in the AM. ;)
2023-11-03 01:10:49 +0100 <monochrom> nocturnal animals :)
2023-11-03 01:12:05 +0100Lycurgus(~georg@user/Lycurgus) (Quit: leaving)
2023-11-03 01:15:46 +0100 <jackdk> I forgive Arrow for being something that someone was struggling with on the edge of their understanding. I would love to see it rebuilt on profunctor + category + additional laws
2023-11-03 01:16:12 +0100 <monochrom> :)
2023-11-03 01:17:31 +0100 <monochrom> I respect people who struggle but with the attitude "it is me who needs growth".
2023-11-03 01:17:36 +0100 <geekosaur> Cale wants to see it become a symmetric monoidal category
2023-11-03 01:18:11 +0100 <geekosaur> which is probably why nothing changes; there are multiple directions it could go and nobody has enough traction to push it
2023-11-03 01:18:33 +0100 <monochrom> It is the sour-grape attitude that I am against.
2023-11-03 01:18:59 +0100 <dolio> Also, regardless of what you do with it, would it be worth using?
2023-11-03 01:19:03 +0100 <geekosaur> (I am not informed enough to have an opinion about it)
2023-11-03 01:19:52 +0100 <geekosaur> Cale is apparently already using it (a reimplemented version as part of reflex-frp and company)
2023-11-03 01:20:25 +0100geekosaurhas some past discussion in his IRC logs
2023-11-03 01:20:34 +0100 <dolio> Yeah, that's the only example I've ever heard of, really. :)
2023-11-03 01:23:18 +0100 <jackdk> I don't have any opinion on Arrow = SMC vs Arrow = Category + Profunctor + Laws. I have in the past enjoyed doing DB stuff via opaleye's arrow-based interface.
2023-11-03 01:23:58 +0100 <jackdk> There are a few takes on arrowised FRP (yampa IIRC?) but I haven't seen any gain huge traction compared to event/behaviour FRP
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2023-11-03 02:32:18 +0100jinsun_jinsun
2023-11-03 02:32:22 +0100 <thegman> what the heck
2023-11-03 02:32:35 +0100 <thegman> i was trying the termonad terminal
2023-11-03 02:33:01 +0100 <thegman> and the executable is 130 megabytes
2023-11-03 02:34:51 +0100geekosaureyes the dependency list
2023-11-03 02:35:00 +0100 <geekosaur> …yeh, that's gonna be pretty big
2023-11-03 02:35:48 +0100 <geekosaur> haskell doesn't normally do dynamic linking except for foreign libraries, so you end up with fairly large executables
2023-11-03 02:35:59 +0100 <thegman> the thing is when i run file on it
2023-11-03 02:36:01 +0100 <thegman> says its dynamic
2023-11-03 02:36:17 +0100 <thegman> and ldd returns a list of libraries its linked against
2023-11-03 02:36:36 +0100 <geekosaur> yes, because it links dynamically to Gtk and other foreign libraries
2023-11-03 02:37:04 +0100 <thegman> where the heck is all the extra fluff coming from
2023-11-03 02:37:09 +0100 <thegman> if i strip it its 100 megabytes
2023-11-03 02:37:27 +0100 <geekosaur> it does not link dynamically to: aeson, lens, adjunctions, classy-prelude, constraints, containers, etc. (https://hackage.haskell.org/package/termonad-4.5.0.0/dependencies)
2023-11-03 02:37:29 +0100 <thegman> but thats still 3 times larger than my statically compiled kernel
2023-11-03 02:37:49 +0100 <thegman> is there a way to just make it only link dynamically
2023-11-03 02:38:24 +0100tessier(~treed@ec2-184-72-149-67.compute-1.amazonaws.com) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2023-11-03 02:38:25 +0100dcoutts(~duncan@cpc69402-oxfd27-2-0-cust903.4-3.cable.virginm.net) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2023-11-03 02:38:25 +0100 <thegman> id prefer things to be statically linked unless they are bigger than all the information my brain will ever receive throughout my whole life
2023-11-03 02:39:50 +0100tessier(~treed@ip72-197-145-89.sd.sd.cox.net)
2023-11-03 02:41:06 +0100 <geekosaur> cabal install termonad --enable-executable-dynamic
2023-11-03 02:41:34 +0100 <geekosaur> probably also need --overwrite-policy=always
2023-11-03 02:43:07 +0100 <thegman> oh dang
2023-11-03 02:43:11 +0100 <thegman> now its 50 kilobytes
2023-11-03 02:43:16 +0100 <thegman> thats quite a range
2023-11-03 02:43:45 +0100 <thegman> the downside is ldd termonad | wc -l returns 217
2023-11-03 02:43:55 +0100 <geekosaur> yep
2023-11-03 02:43:59 +0100 <thegman> huh
2023-11-03 02:44:04 +0100 <thegman> error loading shared libraries
2023-11-03 02:44:11 +0100 <thegman> libHStermonad-4.5.0.0-inplace-ghc9.2.8.so
2023-11-03 02:44:59 +0100 <geekosaur> o.O "inplace" should never happen with "cabal install". what version of cabal are you using and where did you get it (ghcup, system package, …)?
2023-11-03 02:45:35 +0100 <thegman> i didnt do cabal install though
2023-11-03 02:45:38 +0100 <thegman> i did cabal build
2023-11-03 02:45:39 +0100 <thegman> is that why
2023-11-03 02:45:42 +0100 <geekosaur> yes
2023-11-03 02:45:45 +0100 <thegman> ah
2023-11-03 02:45:53 +0100 <geekosaur> you have to use cabal run to run it
2023-11-03 02:47:31 +0100 <thegman> it runs fine now
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2023-11-03 04:06:00 +0100 <Inst> oh no, regarding
2023-11-03 04:06:41 +0100 <Inst> regarding NH (which really should be NeoElm), it's more that I'm interested in multiple declarations for types / newtypes
2023-11-03 04:10:03 +0100finn_elija(~finn_elij@user/finn-elija/x-0085643)
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2023-11-03 04:36:09 +0100infinity0(~infinity0@pwned.gg)
2023-11-03 04:36:26 +0100 <albet70> how to construct a value which has ExceptT r (ContT r IO) a?
2023-11-03 04:37:02 +0100random-jellyfish(~tiber@2a02:2f04:11e:c600:196d:e443:3f12:1b34)
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2023-11-03 04:37:02 +0100random-jellyfish(~tiber@user/random-jellyfish)
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2023-11-03 04:37:26 +0100ddellacosta(~ddellacos@ool-44c738de.dyn.optonline.net)
2023-11-03 04:37:31 +0100 <Inst> also cast to me, the real Haskell analogue imo is "unsafeCoerce"
2023-11-03 04:37:43 +0100 <Inst> https://github.com/XmacsLabs
2023-11-03 04:37:58 +0100 <Inst> if you're interested, that's the model / streamer doing baby rubin on Chinese equiv of youtube
2023-11-03 04:38:14 +0100 <Inst> very interesting project
2023-11-03 04:38:31 +0100 <Inst> it's a shame the most functional you'll get there is a scala enthusiast
2023-11-03 04:38:38 +0100 <Inst> on the team
2023-11-03 04:39:44 +0100 <Inst> I still haven't been able to make contact with Chinese QQ
2023-11-03 04:40:11 +0100 <Inst> with the Chinese Haskell QQ, would be interesting to see if they'd like to divert her, or more interestingly enough, see if she's willing to port her stuff to Youtube
2023-11-03 04:43:13 +0100td_(~td@i5387092B.versanet.de) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2023-11-03 04:44:29 +0100 <jackdk> albet70: pure
2023-11-03 04:44:48 +0100td_(~td@i53870911.versanet.de)
2023-11-03 04:46:53 +0100sabino(~sabino@user/sabino) (Quit: Lambda _ -> x)
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2023-11-03 04:49:44 +0100 <albet70> jackdk , ExceptT $ (v :: ContT r IO (Either r a))
2023-11-03 04:50:51 +0100 <albet70> it seems not right
2023-11-03 04:51:22 +0100 <albet70> ExceptT r (ContT r IO) a is not ExceptT r (ContT r IO a)
2023-11-03 04:51:49 +0100 <Axman6> :t ExceptT
2023-11-03 04:51:50 +0100 <lambdabot> m (Either e a) -> ExceptT e m a
2023-11-03 04:52:06 +0100 <Axman6> m ~ ContT r IO
2023-11-03 04:52:13 +0100thegeekinside(~thegeekin@189.141.80.123) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2023-11-03 04:52:19 +0100 <Axman6> :t ExceptT @(ContT r IO)
2023-11-03 04:52:20 +0100 <lambdabot> error: parse error on input ‘@’
2023-11-03 04:52:27 +0100 <Axman6> % :t ExceptT @(ContT r IO)
2023-11-03 04:52:27 +0100 <yahb2> <interactive>:1:11: error: ; Not in scope: type constructor or class ‘ContT’ ; ; <interactive>:1:17: error: Not in scope: type variable ‘r’
2023-11-03 04:52:29 +0100 <albet70> ExceptT $ (ContT r IO) (Either r a)
2023-11-03 04:53:35 +0100 <albet70> how to construct a value has ContT r IO? since it has *->*, not a type
2023-11-03 04:53:40 +0100foul_owl(~kerry@185.216.231.181) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2023-11-03 04:56:59 +0100 <jackdk> @untmtl ExceptT (ContT r IO) a
2023-11-03 04:56:59 +0100 <lambdabot> err: `ExceptT (ContT r IO) a' is not applied to enough arguments, giving `/\A. a (Either (ContT r IO) A)'
2023-11-03 04:57:09 +0100 <albet70> ExceptT $ContT $((Either r a) -> IO r) -> IO r?
2023-11-03 04:57:18 +0100 <jackdk> Missing the error param
2023-11-03 04:57:27 +0100 <jackdk> @unmtl ExceptT e (ContT r IO) a
2023-11-03 04:57:28 +0100 <lambdabot> (Either e a -> IO r) -> IO r
2023-11-03 04:58:39 +0100Square(~Square4@user/square)
2023-11-03 05:01:02 +0100 <jackdk> > :t ExcepT $ ContT $ \k -> k (Right ())
2023-11-03 05:01:03 +0100 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:1: error: parse error on input ‘:’
2023-11-03 05:01:14 +0100 <jackdk> % :t ExceptT $ ContT $ \k -> k (Right ())
2023-11-03 05:01:14 +0100 <yahb2> <interactive>:1:1: error: ; Data constructor not in scope: ExceptT :: a1 -> b ; ; <interactive>:1:11: error: ; Data constructor not in scope: ; ContT :: ((Either a0 () -> t0) -> t0) ...
2023-11-03 05:01:21 +0100 <jackdk> % import Control.Monad.Except
2023-11-03 05:01:28 +0100 <jackdk> % import Control.Monad.Cont
2023-11-03 05:01:28 +0100 <yahb2> <no output>
2023-11-03 05:01:34 +0100 <jackdk> % :t ExceptT $ ContT $ \k -> k (Right ())
2023-11-03 05:01:34 +0100 <yahb2> ExceptT $ ContT $ \k -> k (Right ()) ; :: forall {k} {e} {r :: k} {m :: k -> *}. ExceptT e (ContT r m) ()
2023-11-03 05:01:43 +0100 <jackdk> or just use `pure`
2023-11-03 05:06:44 +0100drewjose(~drewjose@129.154.40.88)
2023-11-03 05:07:09 +0100 <EvanR> Inst, wake me up if streamer model is doing haskell or something
2023-11-03 05:07:16 +0100nyc(~nyc@user/nyc) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2023-11-03 05:07:40 +0100 <Inst> need to make contact with the QQ-based Chinese Haskell community first, see what they think
2023-11-03 05:08:10 +0100 <Inst> but in China, there's a story about a female English or literature graduate who joined a software firm for marketing, ended up moving into software dev, and it was a Haskell firm
2023-11-03 05:11:32 +0100Lycurgus(~georg@user/Lycurgus)
2023-11-03 05:19:59 +0100accord(uid568320@id-568320.hampstead.irccloud.com) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2023-11-03 05:27:59 +0100 <Inst> erm, I keep on getting messages from lambdabot but I can't read them?
2023-11-03 05:34:28 +0100 <Lycurgus> because glyphs don't reneder in ur client or wat?
2023-11-03 05:43:39 +0100 <Lycurgus> *render
2023-11-03 05:45:41 +0100Lycurgus(~georg@user/Lycurgus) (Quit: leaving)
2023-11-03 05:50:00 +0100aforemny_(~aforemny@2001:9e8:6ce4:6400:b797:ebd1:b498:8617)
2023-11-03 05:51:18 +0100aforemny(~aforemny@2001:9e8:6cfe:d400:32c5:cb0c:efd9:aea6) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2023-11-03 05:57:07 +0100bliminse(~bliminse@user/bliminse) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2023-11-03 06:03:40 +0100bliminse(~bliminse@user/bliminse)
2023-11-03 06:08:05 +0100_ht(~Thunderbi@28-52-174-82.ftth.glasoperator.nl)
2023-11-03 06:14:56 +0100vglfr(~vglfr@46.96.14.220)
2023-11-03 06:25:58 +0100michalz(~michalz@185.246.207.222)
2023-11-03 06:26:27 +0100nyc(~nyc@2603-7000-a106-2fb5-0000-0000-0000-1f21.res6.spectrum.com)
2023-11-03 06:26:32 +0100nyc(~nyc@2603-7000-a106-2fb5-0000-0000-0000-1f21.res6.spectrum.com) (Changing host)
2023-11-03 06:26:32 +0100nyc(~nyc@user/nyc)
2023-11-03 06:32:32 +0100machinedgod(~machinedg@d198-53-218-113.abhsia.telus.net)
2023-11-03 06:33:28 +0100misterfish(~misterfis@84-53-85-146.bbserv.nl)
2023-11-03 06:35:04 +0100 <albet70> Inst , what's the female name?
2023-11-03 06:35:44 +0100 <Inst> no, every time I ask lambdabot for messages, I get a "you have no messages"
2023-11-03 06:36:04 +0100 <albet70> I know there's an QQ group for haskell, but I don't think it's what you talking about
2023-11-03 06:36:52 +0100 <albet70> actually there also is a chinese telegram group for haskell
2023-11-03 06:45:27 +0100 <sshine> Inst, that's a pretty cool story.
2023-11-03 06:45:36 +0100 <sshine> Inst, has it been recorded anywhere?
2023-11-03 06:45:46 +0100 <Inst> i think i found it once on baidu?
2023-11-03 06:45:47 +0100nate2(~nate@c-98-45-169-16.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
2023-11-03 06:46:37 +0100foul_owl(~kerry@174-21-66-189.tukw.qwest.net)
2023-11-03 06:47:43 +0100 <Inst> https://space.bilibili.com/32125090/channel/collectiondetail?sid=1000623
2023-11-03 06:48:01 +0100 <Inst> 看上去已经停止了 (Seems as though she's stopped the series already, re Albet70)
2023-11-03 06:50:04 +0100nate2(~nate@c-98-45-169-16.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2023-11-03 06:51:19 +0100tessier(~treed@ip72-197-145-89.sd.sd.cox.net) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2023-11-03 06:52:26 +0100pixelmonk(~pixelmonk@50.205.76.66) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2023-11-03 06:52:59 +0100tessier(~treed@ec2-184-72-149-67.compute-1.amazonaws.com)
2023-11-03 06:53:49 +0100foul_owl(~kerry@174-21-66-189.tukw.qwest.net) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2023-11-03 07:02:48 +0100vglfr(~vglfr@46.96.14.220) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2023-11-03 07:04:12 +0100pixelmonk(~pixelmonk@50.205.76.66)
2023-11-03 07:08:23 +0100foul_owl(~kerry@185.216.231.182)
2023-11-03 07:11:14 +0100pixelmonk(~pixelmonk@50.205.76.66) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2023-11-03 07:11:35 +0100 <Inst> There are some pretty freaky questions on Zhihu (where IIRc I got it from)
2023-11-03 07:11:43 +0100mikoto-chan(~mikoto-ch@ip-212-239-236-59.dsl.scarlet.be)
2023-11-03 07:12:32 +0100 <Inst> "Girlfriend just began encountering programming, is it appropriate for her to start learning Haskell?"
2023-11-03 07:12:44 +0100danik292(~danik292@78-80-16-241.customers.tmcz.cz)
2023-11-03 07:13:04 +0100 <danik292> Hello
2023-11-03 07:13:19 +0100danik292(~danik292@78-80-16-241.customers.tmcz.cz) (Client Quit)
2023-11-03 07:13:39 +0100 <Inst> First response is by someone who started with SML
2023-11-03 07:14:36 +0100 <Inst> 正常人看到函数式语言：哇，函数式好简洁，好棒好喜欢，比命令式强多了！
2023-11-03 07:14:36 +0100 <Inst> <- Normal people encountering Functional languages: "Wow!" Functional programming is so concise, so great, so loved, much better than imperative programming!"
2023-11-03 07:16:22 +0100 <Inst> When I discovered imperative programming: Wow! It's so easy to write high performance code! Expressivity is excellent, it's much better than functional programming!"
2023-11-03 07:17:00 +0100 <Inst> i.e, don't get them to start with FP unless you want them to argue with you about how C is so much better all the time
2023-11-03 07:22:52 +0100pixelmonk(~pixelmonk@50.205.76.66)
2023-11-03 07:25:03 +0100xff0x(~xff0x@ai101218.d.east.v6connect.net) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2023-11-03 07:25:36 +0100 <Inst> https://www.zhihu.com/question/368084766?utm_source=wechat_session if you want to take a look, just google translate it
2023-11-03 07:26:54 +0100xff0x(~xff0x@178.255.149.135)
2023-11-03 07:28:04 +0100seeg123456(~seeg12345@64.176.64.83) (Quit: Gateway shutdown)
2023-11-03 07:28:17 +0100pixelmonk(~pixelmonk@50.205.76.66) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2023-11-03 07:28:20 +0100seeg123456(~seeg12345@64.176.64.83)
2023-11-03 07:31:41 +0100Lycurgus(~georg@li1192-118.members.linode.com)
2023-11-03 07:31:41 +0100Lycurgus(~georg@li1192-118.members.linode.com) (Changing host)
2023-11-03 07:31:41 +0100Lycurgus(~georg@user/Lycurgus)
2023-11-03 07:31:50 +0100 <albet70> indeed, there are some haskell users on zhihu
2023-11-03 07:32:18 +0100Lycurgusis no man of the sheeple, never argues with the ignorant masses
2023-11-03 07:35:39 +0100benjaminl(~benjaminl@user/benjaminl) (Remote host closed the connection)
2023-11-03 07:36:32 +0100 <Lycurgus> in spite of its thin substrate communism is an essentialy elitist ideology, prolly why it has done so well in zhong guo
2023-11-03 07:36:43 +0100 <Lycurgus> *thin substrate of democracy
2023-11-03 07:37:07 +0100vglfr(~vglfr@46.96.14.220)
2023-11-03 07:37:41 +0100benjaminl(~benjaminl@user/benjaminl)
2023-11-03 07:38:31 +0100 <Lycurgus> vanguards educate the masses, they don't engage them in polemics which would only drag them down to the degraded state of the latter
2023-11-03 07:39:13 +0100 <Lycurgus> hs as a culture is like that
2023-11-03 07:40:31 +0100pixelmonk(~pixelmonk@50.205.76.66)
2023-11-03 07:40:35 +0100xff0x(~xff0x@178.255.149.135) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2023-11-03 07:41:01 +0100rosco(~rosco@yp-150-69.tm.net.my)
2023-11-03 07:42:18 +0100xff0x(~xff0x@2405:6580:b080:900:54c4:5cc:24c8:e8b2)
2023-11-03 07:43:24 +0100vglfr(~vglfr@46.96.14.220) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2023-11-03 07:43:45 +0100vglfr(vglfr@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/vglfr)
2023-11-03 07:44:27 +0100elbear(~lucian@86.120.11.223)
2023-11-03 07:45:34 +0100 <albet70> a . b == id what's relationship of a and b we call?
2023-11-03 07:45:38 +0100acidjnk(~acidjnk@p200300d6e72b93541477e18bee9793f3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2023-11-03 07:45:42 +0100 <albet70> isomorphic?
2023-11-03 07:45:55 +0100pixelmonk(~pixelmonk@50.205.76.66) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2023-11-03 07:47:18 +0100 <dsal> I'm a bit confused as to what that means. You can't compare functions.
2023-11-03 07:48:20 +0100 <albet70> runExceptT . ExceptT?
2023-11-03 07:48:34 +0100 <dsal> :t runExceptT . ExceptT
2023-11-03 07:48:35 +0100 <lambdabot> m (Either e a) -> m (Either e a)
2023-11-03 07:50:16 +0100 <opqdonut> albet70: b is the left inverse of a, a is the right inverse of b
2023-11-03 07:50:28 +0100 <jackdk> I think albet70 is asking about what you call it when one function "undoes" another
2023-11-03 07:50:45 +0100 <albet70> jackdk , yes
2023-11-03 07:50:51 +0100 <dsal> > let canReadShown = read . show >>= (==) in canReadShown 123 -- oh, so something like this?
2023-11-03 07:50:53 +0100 <lambdabot> True
2023-11-03 07:51:01 +0100 <opqdonut> albet70: usually the left/right part is clear from context, so you just say "inverse"
2023-11-03 07:57:01 +0100vglfr(vglfr@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/vglfr) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2023-11-03 07:57:32 +0100vglfr(~vglfr@46.96.14.220)
2023-11-03 07:57:58 +0100pixelmonk(~pixelmonk@50.205.76.66)
2023-11-03 07:59:08 +0100chomwitt(~chomwitt@2a02:587:7a2d:bc00:1ac0:4dff:fedb:a3f1)
2023-11-03 07:59:14 +0100Guest99(~Guest99@2603-7000-4b42-1100-0000-0000-0000-0003.res6.spectrum.com)
2023-11-03 07:59:17 +0100eggplantade(~Eggplanta@2600:1700:38c5:d800:6063:918b:7689:ac0f) (Remote host closed the connection)
2023-11-03 08:00:09 +0100 <Guest99> Hello, is it possible to evaluate a region in emacs to ghci but from the text file? I mean, eval just a region not the entire file.
2023-11-03 08:00:44 +0100sord937(~sord937@gateway/tor-sasl/sord937)
2023-11-03 08:03:08 +0100pixelmonk(~pixelmonk@50.205.76.66) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2023-11-03 08:04:01 +0100Lycurgus(~georg@user/Lycurgus) (Quit: leaving)
2023-11-03 08:12:51 +0100 <rosco> I don't use emacs, but maybe this is what you're looking for? https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/emacs/Shell.html
2023-11-03 08:15:07 +0100 <Guest99> No, I was looking for something like a haskell-interactive-mode-send-region so I could send a region from the text file to ghci. There must be a way to do this
2023-11-03 08:16:26 +0100 <Guest99> Oh, I see what you mean. Do you mean have a ghci on a regular terminal, not the haskell-interactive window, right?
2023-11-03 08:16:41 +0100pixelmonk(~pixelmonk@50.205.76.66)
2023-11-03 08:17:38 +0100 <rosco> Yes, but i don't think it would work since you can't give a string as parameters to ghci, or at least I don't think so.
2023-11-03 08:18:23 +0100 <Guest99> I won't work for multiline code without tweaking, for sure
2023-11-03 08:18:27 +0100 <Guest99> it*
2023-11-03 08:21:13 +0100elbear(~lucian@86.120.11.223) (Quit: leaving)
2023-11-03 08:21:32 +0100pixelmonk(~pixelmonk@50.205.76.66) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2023-11-03 08:25:39 +0100tromp(~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl)
2023-11-03 08:25:54 +0100 <Inst> here we go, source on Chinese haskeller lady story
2023-11-03 08:25:57 +0100 <Inst> 我要吐个惊天大槽，你们都把安全带系好！ 有个四川大学学图形设计的很好看的妹子，进了成都一家公司当HR,招Haskell程序员，大概国内的程序狗都太挫比了大半年招不到合适的，妹子自己去去去去去当,去当Ha,Ha,Has,Has,Has,Haskel,Haskell程序员去了。
2023-11-03 08:25:57 +0100 <Inst> 作者：祖与占
2023-11-03 08:25:57 +0100 <Inst> 链接：https://www.zhihu.com/question/20427853/answer/60939871
2023-11-03 08:25:57 +0100 <Inst> 来源：知乎
2023-11-03 08:25:58 +0100 <Inst> 著作权归作者所有。商业转载请联系作者获得授权，非商业转载请注明出处。
2023-11-03 08:26:00 +0100 <Inst> whoops :(
2023-11-03 08:26:03 +0100 <Inst> https://www.zhihu.com/question/20427853/answer/60939871
2023-11-03 08:27:21 +0100 <Inst> graphic designer
2023-11-03 08:28:09 +0100 <Inst> https://twitter.com/smallfishxy/status/510695241620271104
2023-11-03 08:30:09 +0100vglfr(~vglfr@46.96.14.220) (Remote host closed the connection)
2023-11-03 08:30:36 +0100vglfr(~vglfr@46.96.14.220)
2023-11-03 08:30:44 +0100 <Inst> Majored graphic design, was hired to be HR, couldn't find any suitable Haskell programmers, and at the end, she had to learn Haskell and become one herself.
2023-11-03 08:32:05 +0100 <albet70> there's too few haskell jobs at China
2023-11-03 08:32:37 +0100 <albet70> I only heard two Chinese companies using haskell
2023-11-03 08:33:06 +0100pixelmonk(~pixelmonk@50.205.76.66)
2023-11-03 08:33:55 +0100misterfish(~misterfis@84-53-85-146.bbserv.nl) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2023-11-03 08:35:00 +0100notzmv(~zmv@user/notzmv) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2023-11-03 08:35:02 +0100vglfr(~vglfr@46.96.14.220) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2023-11-03 08:35:22 +0100vglfr(~vglfr@149.102.244.69)
2023-11-03 08:36:10 +0100tzh(~tzh@c-71-193-181-0.hsd1.or.comcast.net) (Quit: zzz)
2023-11-03 08:38:34 +0100pixelmonk(~pixelmonk@50.205.76.66) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2023-11-03 08:39:33 +0100eggplantade(~Eggplanta@2600:1700:38c5:d800:6063:918b:7689:ac0f)
2023-11-03 08:44:41 +0100lisbeths(uid135845@id-135845.lymington.irccloud.com) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2023-11-03 08:44:47 +0100vglfr(~vglfr@149.102.244.69) (Remote host closed the connection)
2023-11-03 08:45:22 +0100gmg(~user@user/gehmehgeh)
2023-11-03 08:46:03 +0100 <Inst> albet70: what's the other one?
2023-11-03 08:46:09 +0100 <Inst> I'm told EMQ still has maintained Haskell systems
2023-11-03 08:47:51 +0100vglfr(~vglfr@149.102.244.69)
2023-11-03 08:49:49 +0100vglfr(~vglfr@149.102.244.69) (Remote host closed the connection)
2023-11-03 08:50:03 +0100thegman(~thegman@072-239-207-086.res.spectrum.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
2023-11-03 08:50:17 +0100vglfr(~vglfr@149.102.244.69)
2023-11-03 08:50:37 +0100pixelmonk(~pixelmonk@50.205.76.66)
2023-11-03 08:56:04 +0100pixelmonk(~pixelmonk@50.205.76.66) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2023-11-03 08:57:49 +0100misterfish(~misterfis@84-53-85-146.bbserv.nl)
2023-11-03 08:59:55 +0100 <Inst> Standard Chartered does work in China
2023-11-03 09:00:08 +0100 <Inst> and Sun Yatsen / Zhongshan University isn't as shitty as I had thought
2023-11-03 09:00:20 +0100 <Inst> That is #10 to #5 in China, depending on year
2023-11-03 09:08:40 +0100pixelmonk(~pixelmonk@50.205.76.66)
2023-11-03 09:09:38 +0100Jackneill_(~Jackneill@20014C4E1E16F000BF720022B447C186.dsl.pool.telekom.hu)
2023-11-03 09:09:46 +0100 <[exa]> Inst: #-offtopic
2023-11-03 09:10:27 +0100vglfr(~vglfr@149.102.244.69) (Remote host closed the connection)
2023-11-03 09:11:34 +0100vglfr(~vglfr@149.102.244.69)
2023-11-03 09:11:42 +0100 <Inst> ehhh, i'd argue it's still on topic, but this topic is just really depressing
2023-11-03 09:15:55 +0100vglfr(~vglfr@149.102.244.69) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2023-11-03 09:15:55 +0100Lycurgus(~georg@user/Lycurgus)
2023-11-03 09:16:01 +0100coot(~coot@89-69-206-216.dynamic.chello.pl)
2023-11-03 09:16:58 +0100vglfr(~vglfr@46.96.14.220)
2023-11-03 09:17:36 +0100vglfr(~vglfr@46.96.14.220) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2023-11-03 09:17:50 +0100vglfr(~vglfr@149.102.244.69)
2023-11-03 09:18:17 +0100econo_(uid147250@id-147250.tinside.irccloud.com) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2023-11-03 09:18:35 +0100danza(~francesco@151.47.148.231)
2023-11-03 09:20:59 +0100 <Guest99> @Inst do you use Chinese characters as code?
2023-11-03 09:20:59 +0100 <lambdabot> No module "do you use Chinese characters as code?" loaded
2023-11-03 09:24:52 +0100 <Lycurgus> i first asked a chinese coder that about 30 ya and he thought it absurd then, now not so much
2023-11-03 09:25:32 +0100pixelmonk(~pixelmonk@50.205.76.66) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2023-11-03 09:27:00 +0100eL_Bart0(eL_Bart0@dietunichtguten.org) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2023-11-03 09:29:25 +0100rosco(~rosco@yp-150-69.tm.net.my) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2023-11-03 09:30:37 +0100eL_Bart0(eL_Bart0@dietunichtguten.org)
2023-11-03 09:33:14 +0100xff0x(~xff0x@2405:6580:b080:900:54c4:5cc:24c8:e8b2) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2023-11-03 09:34:53 +0100misterfish(~misterfis@84-53-85-146.bbserv.nl) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2023-11-03 09:35:25 +0100xff0x(~xff0x@ai101218.d.east.v6connect.net)
2023-11-03 09:35:35 +0100danza(~francesco@151.47.148.231) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2023-11-03 09:35:40 +0100 <Inst> hmmm, it looks like at least in 2016, the Chinese equivalent of Uber (about 1/5th their market cap) was using Haskell for backend
2023-11-03 09:35:53 +0100vglfr(~vglfr@149.102.244.69) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2023-11-03 09:35:58 +0100 <Inst> albet70
2023-11-03 09:36:16 +0100 <Inst> https://www.zhihu.com/question/50974923
2023-11-03 09:36:20 +0100vglfr(~vglfr@46.96.14.220)
2023-11-03 09:36:35 +0100 <Guest99> I mean, APL uses a lot of strange characters and it's 30 yrs old
2023-11-03 09:37:07 +0100 <Inst> Let me go ask in Wechat whether didi is still on Haskell, or whether they ditched it ;_;
2023-11-03 09:37:10 +0100 <Guest99> Haskell could implement something like this now with utf8
2023-11-03 09:38:01 +0100Lycurgus(~georg@user/Lycurgus) (Quit: leaving)
2023-11-03 09:38:49 +0100pixelmonk(~pixelmonk@50.205.76.66)
2023-11-03 09:38:51 +0100 <dminuoso> albet70: Im sure there is more companies using haskell.
2023-11-03 09:39:18 +0100 <dminuoso> Most companies dont go to some public website, register themselves and list all the technologies used inside.
2023-11-03 09:39:55 +0100Square(~Square4@user/square) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2023-11-03 09:45:51 +0100 <Inst> why is didi's Haskell code abusing quasiquoters?
2023-11-03 09:46:05 +0100 <Inst> didi dache is the Chinese equiv of Uber
2023-11-03 09:47:12 +0100misterfish(~misterfis@46.44.172.198)
2023-11-03 09:56:27 +0100 <Inst> looks like I'm getting the message Didi's Haskell is either in maintenance mode or gone :(
2023-11-03 10:02:43 +0100danse-nr3(~danse@151.47.176.154)
2023-11-03 10:03:08 +0100pixelmonk(~pixelmonk@50.205.76.66) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2023-11-03 10:03:16 +0100Sgeo(~Sgeo@user/sgeo) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2023-11-03 10:05:16 +0100 <Guest99> you need to write a parser to use quasiquoter, I wonder if it could be improved to simplify the process
2023-11-03 10:06:17 +0100 <Guest99> I use it myself, but for simple contexts
2023-11-03 10:07:59 +0100kmein(~weechat@user/kmein) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2023-11-03 10:08:19 +0100kmein(~weechat@user/kmein)
2023-11-03 10:09:39 +0100CiaoSen(~Jura@2a05:5800:289:e700:664b:f0ff:fe37:9ef)
2023-11-03 10:11:54 +0100sord937(~sord937@gateway/tor-sasl/sord937) (Remote host closed the connection)
2023-11-03 10:12:05 +0100Pickchea(~private@user/pickchea)
2023-11-03 10:12:15 +0100sord937(~sord937@gateway/tor-sasl/sord937)
2023-11-03 10:13:57 +0100dhil(~dhil@2001:8e0:2014:3100:9df7:6437:c334:376b)
2023-11-03 10:19:27 +0100chele(~chele@user/chele)
2023-11-03 10:25:13 +0100Pickchea(~private@user/pickchea) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2023-11-03 10:27:11 +0100idgaen(~idgaen@2a01:e0a:498:fd50:fcc6:bb5d:489a:ce8c)
2023-11-03 10:30:17 +0100 <albet70> Inst , didi, uber of china, and you already found it
2023-11-03 10:30:51 +0100 <albet70> dminuoso , not in China mainland
2023-11-03 10:31:28 +0100 <danse-nr3> this one github.com/didi i guess
2023-11-03 10:32:03 +0100 <Inst> from Wechat: sounds like Didi dropped it
2023-11-03 10:32:17 +0100 <Inst> Winterland1989 was working there
2023-11-03 10:32:38 +0100 <Inst> he moved to EMQ, then EMQ stopped funding Haskell Foundation and reduced their Haskell operations
2023-11-03 10:34:18 +0100fendor(~fendor@2a02:8388:1640:be00:2a62:2dd0:490d:f2ca)
2023-11-03 10:34:37 +0100pixelmonk(~pixelmonk@50.205.76.66)
2023-11-03 10:39:34 +0100pixelmonk(~pixelmonk@50.205.76.66) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2023-11-03 10:40:58 +0100 <Inst> looks like EMQ is still backing and developing hstreamdb
2023-11-03 10:41:35 +0100 <Inst> https://hstream.io
2023-11-03 10:41:42 +0100vglfr(~vglfr@46.96.14.220) (Remote host closed the connection)
2023-11-03 10:42:19 +0100vglfr(~vglfr@46.96.14.220)
2023-11-03 10:43:39 +0100vglfr(~vglfr@46.96.14.220) (Remote host closed the connection)
2023-11-03 10:44:17 +0100AssCrackBandit(~user@cust-west-par-46-193-2-167.cust.wifirst.net) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2023-11-03 10:45:13 +0100notzmv(~zmv@user/notzmv)
2023-11-03 10:46:58 +0100nate2(~nate@c-98-45-169-16.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
2023-11-03 10:48:14 +0100 <Inst> the wechat folks are praising winterland1989, because hstreamdb is his idea and it's what he's single-handedly pushing
2023-11-03 10:48:46 +0100danse-nr3(~danse@151.47.176.154) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2023-11-03 10:50:07 +0100danse-nr3(~danse@151.47.176.154)
2023-11-03 10:51:21 +0100pixelmonk(~pixelmonk@50.205.76.66)
2023-11-03 10:51:44 +0100nate2(~nate@c-98-45-169-16.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2023-11-03 10:57:20 +0100pixelmonk(~pixelmonk@50.205.76.66) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2023-11-03 10:59:11 +0100pretty_dumm_guy(trottel@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/prettydummguy/x-88029655)
2023-11-03 11:03:45 +0100rosco(~rosco@yp-150-69.tm.net.my)
2023-11-03 11:07:35 +0100CiaoSen(~Jura@2a05:5800:289:e700:664b:f0ff:fe37:9ef) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2023-11-03 11:09:13 +0100ft(~ft@p4fc2a529.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Quit: leaving)
2023-11-03 11:10:05 +0100pixelmonk(~pixelmonk@50.205.76.66)
2023-11-03 11:12:05 +0100Guest99(~Guest99@2603-7000-4b42-1100-0000-0000-0000-0003.res6.spectrum.com) (Quit: Client closed)
2023-11-03 11:13:01 +0100Maxdamantus(~Maxdamant@user/maxdamantus) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2023-11-03 11:14:23 +0100Maxdamantus(~Maxdamant@user/maxdamantus)
2023-11-03 11:15:22 +0100pixelmonk(~pixelmonk@50.205.76.66) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2023-11-03 11:21:18 +0100rosco(~rosco@yp-150-69.tm.net.my) (Remote host closed the connection)
2023-11-03 11:23:51 +0100acarrico(~acarrico@dhcp-68-142-49-163.greenmountainaccess.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2023-11-03 11:24:41 +0100acarrico(~acarrico@dhcp-68-142-49-163.greenmountainaccess.net)
2023-11-03 11:27:52 +0100FinnElija(~finn_elij@user/finn-elija/x-0085643) (Remote host closed the connection)
2023-11-03 11:28:20 +0100FinnElija(~finn_elij@user/finn-elija/x-0085643)
2023-11-03 11:28:22 +0100pixelmonk(~pixelmonk@50.205.76.66)
2023-11-03 11:28:31 +0100mc47(~mc47@xmonad/TheMC47)
2023-11-03 11:28:35 +0100tv(~tv@user/tv) (Quit: derp)
2023-11-03 11:28:49 +0100tv(~tv@user/tv)
2023-11-03 11:33:35 +0100Inst(~Inst@120.244.192.250) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2023-11-03 11:33:37 +0100pixelmonk(~pixelmonk@50.205.76.66) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2023-11-03 11:36:07 +0100Unicorn_Princess(~Unicorn_P@user/Unicorn-Princess/x-3540542)
2023-11-03 11:41:07 +0100Inst(~Inst@120.244.192.250)
2023-11-03 11:41:20 +0100idgaen(~idgaen@2a01:e0a:498:fd50:fcc6:bb5d:489a:ce8c) (Quit: WeeChat 4.0.5)
2023-11-03 11:41:54 +0100kuribas(~user@ip-188-118-57-242.reverse.destiny.be)
2023-11-03 11:42:35 +0100 <kuribas> What's the name for values having the same structure, but different data?
2023-11-03 11:42:44 +0100 <kuribas> Like ["foo", "bar", "Baz"] and [Just 1, Nothing, Just 4]
2023-11-03 11:43:16 +0100 <kuribas> Or map with different values, but the same keys.
2023-11-03 11:44:01 +0100 <kuribas> So I can zip without losing data.
2023-11-03 11:45:39 +0100pixelmonk(~pixelmonk@50.205.76.66)
2023-11-03 11:49:47 +0100arahael(~arahael@119-18-2-212.771202.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net)
2023-11-03 11:50:04 +0100 <TMA> higher order type?
2023-11-03 11:50:22 +0100 <kuribas> I mean at value level.
2023-11-03 11:50:44 +0100 <kuribas> for example zip ["foo", "bar"] [1] is loosing information ("bar")
2023-11-03 11:51:10 +0100pixelmonk(~pixelmonk@50.205.76.66) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2023-11-03 11:51:24 +0100__monty__(~toonn@user/toonn)
2023-11-03 11:53:04 +0100 <Unicorn_Princess> kuribas: guessing, something with 'bijection' or 'homomorphism'?
2023-11-03 11:54:10 +0100 <kuribas> Unicorn_Princess: homomorphic?
2023-11-03 11:54:49 +0100 <Unicorn_Princess> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
2023-11-03 11:55:05 +0100 <[Leary]> Going by the roots, both 'isomorphic' and 'homomorphic' are correct, but perhaps we shouldn't overload them any further. I'm not aware of an established term, but I'd say "having identical functorial structure", the precise relation being fx ~ fy iff void fx = void fy.
2023-11-03 11:55:55 +0100pixelmonk(~pixelmonk@50.205.76.66)
2023-11-03 11:55:59 +0100 <[Leary]> Presuming you only need to consider Functors, that is.
2023-11-03 11:56:24 +0100[_](~itchyjunk@user/itchyjunk/x-7353470)
2023-11-03 11:57:59 +0100[_](~itchyjunk@user/itchyjunk/x-7353470) (Remote host closed the connection)
2023-11-03 11:58:23 +0100[_](~itchyjunk@user/itchyjunk/x-7353470)
2023-11-03 12:00:16 +0100[itchyjunk](~itchyjunk@user/itchyjunk/x-7353470) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2023-11-03 12:00:21 +0100 <kuribas> right, thanks!
2023-11-03 12:01:56 +0100 <ncf> i would probably say aligned, because of https://hackage.haskell.org/package/semialign
2023-11-03 12:04:12 +0100misterfish(~misterfis@46.44.172.198) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2023-11-03 12:06:11 +0100 <danse-nr3> makes me think of a "fiber" (inverse image) under `length`, but not sure that is the context you want to use to interpret this case
2023-11-03 12:06:46 +0100ChaiTRex(~ChaiTRex@user/chaitrex) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2023-11-03 12:07:34 +0100ChaiTRex(~ChaiTRex@user/chaitrex)
2023-11-03 12:07:42 +0100 <danse-nr3> what is tricky in your question is that you use "structure" and "data" as if they were objective, but they are only defined by your use case there
2023-11-03 12:08:18 +0100 <kuribas> danse-nr3: I mean some kind of Functorial structure, like [Leary] explained.
2023-11-03 12:08:35 +0100 <kuribas> Which is more than "has the same lenght".
2023-11-03 12:09:10 +0100 <kuribas> Makes me wonder if there is a connection between Functors and zip...
2023-11-03 12:16:19 +0100danse-nr3(~danse@151.47.176.154) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2023-11-03 12:17:59 +0100 <ncf> the semialign stuff is one
2023-11-03 12:23:46 +0100sord937(~sord937@gateway/tor-sasl/sord937) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2023-11-03 12:24:10 +0100misterfish(~misterfis@84-53-85-146.bbserv.nl)
2023-11-03 12:25:23 +0100sord937(~sord937@gateway/tor-sasl/sord937)
2023-11-03 12:40:44 +0100Inst(~Inst@120.244.192.250) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2023-11-03 12:46:17 +0100Inst(~Inst@120.244.192.250)
2023-11-03 12:53:11 +0100 <yin> am i the only one who desperately needs a Container class for common container actions?
2023-11-03 12:55:24 +0100 <yin> i know why it's not trival
2023-11-03 12:55:29 +0100mmhat(~mmh@p200300f1c7445e07ee086bfffe095315.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2023-11-03 12:55:31 +0100mmhat(~mmh@p200300f1c7445e07ee086bfffe095315.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Client Quit)
2023-11-03 12:56:06 +0100 <yin> but without overloading functions it becomes very painful to test different structures for the same program
2023-11-03 12:57:59 +0100 <yin> i usually import <whatever> qualified as MyContainer but many similar functions across different containers have different names
2023-11-03 12:58:15 +0100danse-nr3(~danse@151.47.176.154)
2023-11-03 12:59:43 +0100 <yin> the alternative is to almost make a class for each function
2023-11-03 13:01:00 +0100 <yin> </rant>
2023-11-03 13:03:03 +0100 <yin> well I just found https://hackage.haskell.org/package/ListLike-4.7.8.2/docs/Data-ListLike.html
2023-11-03 13:14:42 +0100danse-nr3(~danse@151.47.176.154) (Remote host closed the connection)
2023-11-03 13:14:56 +0100lortabac(~lorenzo@2a01:e0a:541:b8f0:1d15:3725:d7d:b37d)
2023-11-03 13:15:06 +0100danse-nr3(~danse@151.47.176.154)
2023-11-03 13:30:45 +0100htor(~htor@84.208.240.181)
2023-11-03 13:49:56 +0100falafel(~falafel@62.175.113.194.dyn.user.ono.com)
2023-11-03 13:52:14 +0100htor(~htor@84.208.240.181) (Quit: zzz)
2023-11-03 13:52:14 +0100 <danse-nr3> just found out about https://downloads.haskell.org/ghc/latest/docs/users_guide/using-warnings.html#ghc-flag--Wpartial-f…
2023-11-03 13:52:47 +0100 <danse-nr3> i don't use this much but it is kind of disappointing that a runtime error can be added as easily as with `data Foo = Foo { f :: Int } | Bar`
2023-11-03 13:53:19 +0100 <danse-nr3> gonna play with this a bit
2023-11-03 13:53:23 +0100 <danse-nr3> > data Foo = Foo { f :: Int } | Bar
2023-11-03 13:53:24 +0100 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:1: error: parse error on input ‘data’
2023-11-03 13:53:26 +0100htor(~htor@84.208.240.181)
2023-11-03 13:53:36 +0100 <danse-nr3> % data Foo = Foo { f :: Int } | Bar
2023-11-03 13:53:37 +0100 <yahb2> <no output>
2023-11-03 13:53:42 +0100 <danse-nr3> :t f
2023-11-03 13:53:43 +0100 <lambdabot> FromExpr a => a
2023-11-03 13:54:06 +0100 <danse-nr3> FromExpr? Maybe we have some extension enabled
2023-11-03 13:54:34 +0100 <danse-nr3> % data Foo2 = Foo2 { f :: Int }
2023-11-03 13:54:34 +0100 <yahb2> <no output>
2023-11-03 13:54:37 +0100 <danse-nr3> :t f
2023-11-03 13:54:38 +0100 <lambdabot> FromExpr a => a
2023-11-03 13:55:48 +0100 <probie> lambdabot and yahb2 are different. lambdabot already has definitions for a lot of single letter things so you can do
2023-11-03 13:55:58 +0100 <probie> > foldr f [x,y] z
2023-11-03 13:56:00 +0100 <lambdabot> error:
2023-11-03 13:56:00 +0100 <lambdabot> • Couldn't match expected type ‘t0 a0’ with actual type ‘Expr’
2023-11-03 13:56:00 +0100 <lambdabot> • In the third argument of ‘foldr’, namely ‘z’
2023-11-03 13:56:09 +0100 <probie> > foldr f z [x, y]
2023-11-03 13:56:11 +0100 <lambdabot> f x (f y z)
2023-11-03 13:56:26 +0100 <danse-nr3> which one is closer to a vanilla ghci and what is the syntax to use it?
2023-11-03 13:56:44 +0100 <danse-nr3> oh i see
2023-11-03 13:56:53 +0100 <danse-nr3> %:t f
2023-11-03 13:57:01 +0100 <danse-nr3> % :t f
2023-11-03 13:57:02 +0100 <yahb2> f :: Foo2 -> Int
2023-11-03 13:57:07 +0100 <danse-nr3> thanks probie
2023-11-03 13:57:12 +0100 <danse-nr3> % data Foo = Foo { f :: Int } | Bar
2023-11-03 13:57:13 +0100 <yahb2> <no output>
2023-11-03 13:57:17 +0100 <danse-nr3> % :t f
2023-11-03 13:57:17 +0100 <yahb2> f :: Foo -> Int
2023-11-03 13:57:26 +0100 <danse-nr3> % f Bar
2023-11-03 13:57:26 +0100 <yahb2> *** Exception: No match in record selector f
2023-11-03 13:57:29 +0100 <danse-nr3> bang
2023-11-03 13:58:33 +0100jmcantrell(644f1bed9a@user/jmcantrell) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2023-11-03 13:58:33 +0100shreyasminocha(51fdc93eda@user/shreyasminocha) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2023-11-03 13:58:54 +0100henrytill(e0180937c3@2604:bf00:561:2000::e8c) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2023-11-03 13:59:16 +0100samhh(7569f027cf@2604:bf00:561:2000::e4) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2023-11-03 13:59:16 +0100samhh_samhh
2023-11-03 13:59:32 +0100samhh_(7569f027cf@2604:bf00:561:2000::e4)
2023-11-03 14:00:49 +0100Inst(~Inst@120.244.192.250) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2023-11-03 14:01:13 +0100shreyasminocha(51fdc93eda@user/shreyasminocha)
2023-11-03 14:01:36 +0100jmcantrell(644f1bed9a@user/jmcantrell)
2023-11-03 14:01:51 +0100henrytill(e0180937c3@2604:bf00:561:2000::e8c)
2023-11-03 14:02:25 +0100danse-nr3(~danse@151.47.176.154) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2023-11-03 14:02:37 +0100danse-nr3(~danse@an-19-185-204.service.infuturo.it)
2023-11-03 14:17:10 +0100htor(~htor@84.208.240.181) (Quit: htor)
2023-11-03 14:17:30 +0100 <danse-nr3> % data S = S { f :: Int }
2023-11-03 14:17:30 +0100 <yahb2> <no output>
2023-11-03 14:17:44 +0100 <danse-nr3> % data F = FS S | B
2023-11-03 14:17:45 +0100 <yahb2> <no output>
2023-11-03 14:17:54 +0100 <danse-nr3> safer alternative i guess
2023-11-03 14:18:50 +0100machinedgod(~machinedg@d198-53-218-113.abhsia.telus.net) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2023-11-03 14:21:57 +0100 <danse-nr3> i guess i would forbid `data Unsafe = Unsafe { f :: Int } | Alt` from our codebase if i could
2023-11-03 14:24:00 +0100 <danse-nr3> % data U = U1 { f :: (), g :: () } | U2 { f :: () }
2023-11-03 14:24:00 +0100 <yahb2> <no output>
2023-11-03 14:24:07 +0100 <danse-nr3> % :t f
2023-11-03 14:24:07 +0100 <yahb2> f :: U -> ()
2023-11-03 14:24:13 +0100 <danse-nr3> % :t g
2023-11-03 14:24:13 +0100 <yahb2> g :: U -> ()
2023-11-03 14:24:26 +0100 <danse-nr3> % f (U1 () ())
2023-11-03 14:24:27 +0100 <yahb2> ()
2023-11-03 14:24:33 +0100 <danse-nr3> % f (U2 ())
2023-11-03 14:24:33 +0100 <yahb2> ()
2023-11-03 14:24:41 +0100 <danse-nr3> % g (U1 () ())
2023-11-03 14:24:41 +0100 <yahb2> ()
2023-11-03 14:24:48 +0100 <danse-nr3> % g (U2 ())
2023-11-03 14:24:49 +0100 <yahb2> *** Exception: No match in record selector g
2023-11-03 14:25:08 +0100 <danse-nr3> generic accessors before the extension existed
2023-11-03 14:26:24 +0100raehik(~raehik@cpc95906-rdng25-2-0-cust156.15-3.cable.virginm.net)
2023-11-03 14:35:12 +0100Lycurgus(~georg@user/Lycurgus)
2023-11-03 14:35:12 +0100 <danse-nr3> well, some proto-broken form for them anyways
2023-11-03 14:37:46 +0100falafel(~falafel@62.175.113.194.dyn.user.ono.com) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2023-11-03 14:38:00 +0100cmtaur^(~cd@70-88-177-118-Atlanta.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2023-11-03 14:48:28 +0100nate2(~nate@c-98-45-169-16.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
2023-11-03 14:53:24 +0100nate2(~nate@c-98-45-169-16.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2023-11-03 14:57:41 +0100edr(~edr@user/edr)
2023-11-03 15:01:26 +0100Lycurgus(~georg@user/Lycurgus) (Quit: leaving)
2023-11-03 15:05:08 +0100CO2(CO2@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/co2) (Quit: WeeChat 4.1.1)
2023-11-03 15:08:43 +0100CO2(CO2@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/co2)
2023-11-03 15:09:20 +0100L29Ah(~L29Ah@wikipedia/L29Ah) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2023-11-03 15:09:48 +0100takuan(~takuan@178-116-218-225.access.telenet.be)
2023-11-03 15:12:23 +0100tromp(~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2023-11-03 15:17:45 +0100Sgeo(~Sgeo@user/sgeo)
2023-11-03 15:19:25 +0100Umeaboy(~Umeaboy@94-255-145-133.cust.bredband2.com)
2023-11-03 15:20:26 +0100 <Umeaboy> Hi! I've tried to use various different versions of the ghc src.tar.xz and it still fails.
2023-11-03 15:21:59 +0100 <Umeaboy> https://pastebin.mozilla.org/QLBQbdAY
2023-11-03 15:22:07 +0100pixelmonk(~pixelmonk@50.205.76.66) (Quit: WeeChat 4.1.0)
2023-11-03 15:22:23 +0100 <Umeaboy> I know that it's not the full output, but I forgot to change the numbers of lines in the terminal.
2023-11-03 15:23:28 +0100 <Umeaboy> What have I forgotten to do? I have followed the instructions on the wiki.
2023-11-03 15:28:50 +0100 <__monty__> Umeaboy: If you're trying to build GHC, #ghc is the best place for questions.
2023-11-03 15:30:49 +0100 <int-e> hmm, hsc2hs, could be some weird locale or maybe a header file with malformed utf-8?
2023-11-03 15:31:59 +0100 <int-e> (the header file would probably be <time.h>)
2023-11-03 15:32:50 +0100arahael(~arahael@119-18-2-212.771202.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2023-11-03 15:39:15 +0100Pickchea(~private@user/pickchea)
2023-11-03 15:42:49 +0100 <Umeaboy> int-e: Is this easily solved?
2023-11-03 15:45:49 +0100fendor(~fendor@2a02:8388:1640:be00:2a62:2dd0:490d:f2ca) (Remote host closed the connection)
2023-11-03 15:50:09 +0100tromp(~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl)
2023-11-03 15:53:59 +0100[_](~itchyjunk@user/itchyjunk/x-7353470) (Remote host closed the connection)
2023-11-03 15:54:23 +0100[_](~itchyjunk@user/itchyjunk/x-7353470)
2023-11-03 15:56:29 +0100tzh(~tzh@c-71-193-181-0.hsd1.or.comcast.net)
2023-11-03 15:56:59 +0100[_](~itchyjunk@user/itchyjunk/x-7353470) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2023-11-03 15:59:07 +0100mikoto-chan(~mikoto-ch@ip-212-239-236-59.dsl.scarlet.be) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2023-11-03 16:06:38 +0100danse-nr3(~danse@an-19-185-204.service.infuturo.it) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2023-11-03 16:12:38 +0100danse-nr3(~danse@an-19-185-204.service.infuturo.it)
2023-11-03 16:13:35 +0100L29Ah(~L29Ah@wikipedia/L29Ah)
2023-11-03 16:17:02 +0100 <[exa]> Umeaboy: what's your locale settings? ( export |grep LC_ )
2023-11-03 16:17:17 +0100 <[exa]> Umeaboy: i.e., try to run with LC_ALL=C just to be triplesure
2023-11-03 16:18:09 +0100 <int-e> we /may/ be over the locale issue
2023-11-03 16:18:26 +0100 <int-e> (the discussion has continued on #ghc)
2023-11-03 16:18:31 +0100 <[exa]> ahh ok
2023-11-03 16:19:58 +0100Teacup(~teacup@user/teacup) ()
2023-11-03 16:20:15 +0100Teacup(~teacup@user/teacup)
2023-11-03 16:21:41 +0100 <Umeaboy> [exa]: You're welcome to join in #ghc to discuss it further if you want.
2023-11-03 16:22:47 +0100 <[exa]> ah no I was trying to contribute my ¢2 here, no real idea what might be really wrong :D
2023-11-03 16:23:10 +0100 <[exa]> btw you have UTF in path, right? that might be worth checking for
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2023-11-03 16:46:01 +0100 <Umeaboy> [exa]: https://pastebin.mozilla.org/55C3u9MV
2023-11-03 16:47:43 +0100 <nyc> How do I check for haddock warnings originating from a particular source file?
2023-11-03 16:50:51 +0100 <danse-nr3> maybe there is a way to haddock a single file, never tried
2023-11-03 16:52:10 +0100rgw(~R@2605:a601:a0f5:a800:ad48:522e:108:bbe8)
2023-11-03 16:52:33 +0100 <nyc> It's okay if it looks at more so long as I can just pick warnings and errors for one file.
2023-11-03 16:53:09 +0100 <danse-nr3> can't the output be grepped? Let me look at some old runs i might have ...
2023-11-03 16:53:46 +0100 <nyc> The format of what it outputs is odd.
2023-11-03 16:53:58 +0100 <danse-nr3> nope they got lost. Don't know
2023-11-03 16:57:16 +0100lortabac(~lorenzo@2a01:e0a:541:b8f0:1d15:3725:d7d:b37d) (Quit: WeeChat 3.5)
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2023-11-03 17:21:29 +0100pixelmonk(~pixelmonk@173.46.79.26)
2023-11-03 17:22:17 +0100 <nyc> Invoking haddock directly instead of via cabal haddock seems relevant.
2023-11-03 17:23:00 +0100billchenchina(~billchenc@2a0d:2580:ff0c:1:e3c9:c52b:a429:5bfe)
2023-11-03 17:24:09 +0100 <Umeaboy> It still won't build.
2023-11-03 17:25:18 +0100chele(~chele@user/chele) (Remote host closed the connection)
2023-11-03 17:32:04 +0100 <[exa]> Umeaboy: did you find where it takes the weird character? (e.g. what command it is?)
2023-11-03 17:32:52 +0100 <[exa]> Umeaboy: also if possible, really try without the umlaut in $PWD
2023-11-03 17:35:04 +0100ski(~ski@88.131.7.247)
2023-11-03 17:38:40 +0100haveohaveo_
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2023-11-03 17:42:33 +0100 <Umeaboy> [exa]: https://pastebin.mozilla.org/3pNB4L8q
2023-11-03 17:43:02 +0100 <Umeaboy> I'm not making any chances besides the one you see in that output.
2023-11-03 17:47:08 +0100danse-nr3(~danse@an-19-185-204.service.infuturo.it) (Remote host closed the connection)
2023-11-03 17:48:56 +0100 <geekosaur> 56515 is a surrogate. is something using utf16 instead of utf8?
2023-11-03 17:50:35 +0100 <int-e> what does `locale` say?
2023-11-03 17:52:35 +0100 <Umeaboy> int-e: https://pastebin.mozilla.org/KCBhum7n
2023-11-03 17:55:31 +0100 <int-e> So it is UTF-8 based. But then why did using C.UTF-8 make a difference earlier?
2023-11-03 17:55:44 +0100 <int-e> (Well I thought it did.)
2023-11-03 17:57:40 +0100danse-nr3(~danse@151.47.197.13)
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2023-11-03 18:06:00 +0100 <EvanR> should ghc work in non utf8 locales, hypothetically
2023-11-03 18:07:02 +0100 <EvanR> also how would time.h be implicated in bad unicode
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2023-11-03 18:29:27 +0100 <Umeaboy> Uuuuuhm. I'm beginning to feel that this problem cannot be solved today. Am I right?
2023-11-03 18:30:39 +0100 <Umeaboy> hadrian won't build even with 9.6.3 from git.
2023-11-03 18:31:35 +0100 <Umeaboy> https://pastebin.mozilla.org/me0XejW8
2023-11-03 18:31:39 +0100sord937(~sord937@gateway/tor-sasl/sord937) (Quit: sord937)
2023-11-03 18:31:51 +0100 <EvanR> I can try to carry out your build in my locale and see if it has the same problem
2023-11-03 18:32:14 +0100 <EvanR> if you tell me the instructions
2023-11-03 18:32:30 +0100 <Umeaboy> EvanR: Sure.
2023-11-03 18:32:32 +0100 <Umeaboy> PM?
2023-11-03 18:32:47 +0100 <EvanR> dunno if that's necessary
2023-11-03 18:32:54 +0100 <Umeaboy> OK.
2023-11-03 18:36:00 +0100 <EvanR> so, build hadrian, ok, cloning I guess
2023-11-03 18:36:45 +0100Nachtgespenst(~user@user/siracusa) (Quit: Bye!)
2023-11-03 18:36:53 +0100 <Umeaboy> Install ghcup and use Stack 2.11.1, HLS 2.4.0.0, Cabal 3.10.1.0, GHC 9.6.3. Install happy and alex using cabal from ghcup. Now do git clone --recursive https://github.com/ghc/ghc.git -b ghc-9.6.3-release && cd ghc/ && aclocal && ./boot && ./configure
2023-11-03 18:43:00 +0100chomwitt(~chomwitt@2a02:587:7a2d:bc00:1ac0:4dff:fedb:a3f1) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2023-11-03 18:44:41 +0100 <EvanR> why am I installing stack and then installing happy and alex with cabal
2023-11-03 18:44:47 +0100 <EvanR> globally
2023-11-03 18:45:08 +0100 <Umeaboy> EvanR: Because I choose to integrate Stack.
2023-11-03 18:45:22 +0100 <EvanR> I've never used stack really so this is uncharted territory
2023-11-03 18:45:48 +0100machinedgod(~machinedg@d198-53-218-113.abhsia.telus.net) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2023-11-03 18:47:37 +0100 <EvanR> cloning
2023-11-03 18:49:04 +0100 <EvanR> ./configureing
2023-11-03 18:49:20 +0100 <EvanR> Configure completed successfully.
2023-11-03 18:49:40 +0100FinnElija(~finn_elij@user/finn-elija/x-0085643) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
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2023-11-03 18:50:05 +0100FinnElija(~finn_elij@user/finn-elija/x-0085643)
2023-11-03 18:50:38 +0100 <EvanR> all the locale related environment variables are en_US.UTF-8
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2023-11-03 23:01:08 +0100 <EvanR> the aeson Value typed used to use HashMap to represent json object. Now it's configurable. Was there any benchmark gaming to show which one is better is what situations
2023-11-03 23:01:26 +0100 <EvanR> I can't type
2023-11-03 23:02:09 +0100 <EvanR> HashMap or Map for json, who won
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2023-11-03 23:12:38 +0100 <monochrom> Map won the hash collision DoS argument. :)
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2023-11-03 23:56:22 +0100[itchyjunk](~itchyjunk@user/itchyjunk/x-7353470)