IRCBrowse

2023/09/25

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2023-09-25 07:14:22 +0200 <Inst> Could I ask a brief question about State# RealWorld?
2023-09-25 07:14:33 +0200 <Inst> This is essentially the type of a primitive; it's a zero-bit type
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2023-09-25 07:43:46 +0200 <Axman6> Is that the question?
2023-09-25 07:56:23 +0200harveypwca(~harveypwc@2601:246:c180:a570:41a8:a837:a4a7:bda1)
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2023-09-25 08:17:29 +0200 <dminuoso> lockywolf: It depends on the version. In 3.6.0.0 it was the other way around https://hackage.haskell.org/package/Cabal-syntax-3.6.0.0
2023-09-25 08:17:48 +0200 <dminuoso> I was just confused, because I implicitly assumed a hackage link would point at the newest version, not the oldest.
2023-09-25 08:20:38 +0200Inst_(~Inst@120.244.192.250)
2023-09-25 08:20:43 +0200 <Inst_> btw, if anyone wants to solve
2023-09-25 08:20:44 +0200Inst_Inst
2023-09-25 08:20:52 +0200 <Inst> the Arch Linux problem, it seems:
2023-09-25 08:20:58 +0200 <Inst> One, package GHCup into a pacman package
2023-09-25 08:21:19 +0200 <Inst> Two, be a trusted user or get a trusted user to back your project, get it into pacman
2023-09-25 08:21:23 +0200 <Inst> Three, problem solved.
2023-09-25 08:21:36 +0200 <Inst> Not doing it myself, got other fish to fry
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2023-09-25 10:10:07 +0200 <KBar> hello! how does `toInt :: [Integer] -> Integer \n toInt (x:xs) = x` match `toInt [42]`? is it because `xs` is an empty list [] here?
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2023-09-25 10:28:00 +0200 <ncf> [42] = 42:[]
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2023-09-25 10:46:55 +0200 <danse-nr3_> good monday #haskell
2023-09-25 10:47:15 +0200 <sshine> good haskell monday!
2023-09-25 10:47:40 +0200 <danse-nr3_> :P
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2023-09-25 11:04:26 +0200Inst(~Inst@120.244.192.250)
2023-09-25 11:04:44 +0200 <Inst> tosmeding: when you're free, can I ask some questions about accelerate?
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2023-09-25 11:31:19 +0200[itchyjunk](~itchyjunk@user/itchyjunk/x-7353470)
2023-09-25 11:31:29 +0200 <Inst> tomsmeding, I mean :(
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2023-09-25 11:55:54 +0200 <kuribas> Accelerate looks pretty nice, are there industrial users of this library?
2023-09-25 11:57:19 +0200 <kuribas> I'll be using the cpu backend, so I guess I am safe then...
2023-09-25 11:57:40 +0200 <kuribas> I wonder how it compares to libraries in other languages.
2023-09-25 11:57:44 +0200 <kuribas> There is numba...
2023-09-25 11:59:29 +0200 <kuribas> tomsmeding: what about the cuda driver?
2023-09-25 11:59:38 +0200 <kuribas> Does it also crash?
2023-09-25 12:03:45 +0200 <[exa]> "compares" as in speed or crash rates? :D
2023-09-25 12:04:03 +0200 <[exa]> anyway I believe there are some benchmarks online against much bigger beasts than numba
2023-09-25 12:04:39 +0200 <kuribas> [exa]: which beasts? :-P
2023-09-25 12:04:53 +0200 <kuribas> both speed and crash rates :)
2023-09-25 12:05:02 +0200 <kuribas> preferably crash rate of 0.
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2023-09-25 12:12:35 +0200 <kuribas> A timeseries database using accelerate could possibly outperform any existing databases.
2023-09-25 12:12:53 +0200 <kuribas> For example, questDB has simd optimization, but it only works for a select number of functions.
2023-09-25 12:13:13 +0200 <kuribas> accelerate can theoretically optimize any associative aggregation function.
2023-09-25 12:13:14 +0200 <Inst> Accelerate can't generate C code, right? It's generating CUDA
2023-09-25 12:13:30 +0200 <Inst> for a while, I was suspecting that Tesla was using Accelerate for their embedded device code generation
2023-09-25 12:14:39 +0200 <kuribas> Inst: it can generate llvm IR.
2023-09-25 12:15:45 +0200 <Inst> I'd just be a big coup if Tesla was just using accelerate, though
2023-09-25 12:15:57 +0200 <kuribas> Inst: what makes you suspect that?
2023-09-25 12:16:36 +0200 <Athas> Microsoft had a product or library or something that was also called Accelerate. Maybe they used that.
2023-09-25 12:16:48 +0200 <Inst> The cant around the community is that, at least for a while, Tesla was using Haskell to generate C code for embedded devices
2023-09-25 12:17:00 +0200 <Inst> but using the Haskell side to ensure type safety and domain-encoding
2023-09-25 12:17:15 +0200 <Athas> They probably were not using Accelerate for that, but maybe something like copilot.
2023-09-25 12:17:33 +0200 <kuribas> Accelerate is very limited to array computations.
2023-09-25 12:17:44 +0200 <Athas> Accelerate generates C/LLVM/PTX code, but it has to execute it immediately. It's a JIT compiler and I don't think you can remove the generated code from the Accelerate/Haskell runtime environment.
2023-09-25 12:17:46 +0200 <Inst> They might have had a custom solution, then.
2023-09-25 12:17:49 +0200hugo(~hugo@verdigris.lysator.liu.se) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2023-09-25 12:18:08 +0200 <Inst> Copilot I think is more unnlikely, unless you can use it for Haskell to C compilation
2023-09-25 12:18:16 +0200 <Inst> Or maybe they might just be using the old C backend
2023-09-25 12:19:02 +0200 <kuribas> Athas: that doesn't seem hard to circumvent.
2023-09-25 12:19:17 +0200 <int-e> "something on top of language-c" seems more likely than accelerate. But something entirely homegrown is equally likely.
2023-09-25 12:19:58 +0200 <Athas> kuribas: maybe not, but you'll be losing the main advantage of Accelerate (the very smooth integration with normal Haskell code).
2023-09-25 12:21:07 +0200 <kuribas> Yeah, my idea is to create a DSL to that uses accelerate to JIT compile timeseries at runtime.
2023-09-25 12:21:20 +0200 <Inst> https://serokell.io/blog/top-software-written-in-haskell#:~:text=Tesla%20has%20been%20regularly%20…
2023-09-25 12:22:26 +0200 <int-e> or, if Haskell is indeed the source language here, there are a handful of other Haskell compilers that they could potentially adapt
2023-09-25 12:22:54 +0200 <int-e> speculating on the basis of, basically, two keywords isn't particularly reliable
2023-09-25 12:23:21 +0200 <Athas> There are several Haskell libraries/eDSLs for generating C code. It's overwhelmingly likely that Tesla is using those or their own variant. It's a well-studied and well-working niche.
2023-09-25 12:24:49 +0200 <Inst> You're right, it's probably copilot, I got confused with Github copilot
2023-09-25 12:25:48 +0200 <kuribas> I also wonder if date aggregations (group_by) in python are using SIMD.
2023-09-25 12:26:18 +0200 <Athas> itertools.groupby, almost certainly not.
2023-09-25 12:26:30 +0200 <Athas> But I'd expect the various Numpy-adjacent libraries do so.
2023-09-25 12:26:45 +0200 <kuribas> Athas: https://pandas.pydata.org/docs/reference/api/pandas.DataFrame.groupby.html
2023-09-25 12:27:33 +0200 <Athas> Turns out that function just treats and returns a lazy object.
2023-09-25 12:28:30 +0200 <kuribas> maybe this one then: https://pandas.pydata.org/docs/reference/api/pandas.DataFrame.resample.html#pandas.DataFrame.resam…
2023-09-25 12:28:59 +0200 <kuribas> It returns an object, on which you need to specify the aggregation.
2023-09-25 12:29:26 +0200 <kuribas> Of course using a python lambda is incredibly slow.
2023-09-25 12:36:17 +0200vglfr(~vglfr@88.155.2.199)
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2023-09-25 12:41:08 +0200 <Hecate> jocke-l:
2023-09-25 12:41:11 +0200 <Hecate> oops!
2023-09-25 12:41:11 +0200 <Hecate> sorry
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2023-09-25 13:30:55 +0200hexology(~hexology@user/hexology) (*.net *.split)
2023-09-25 13:30:55 +0200flukiluke(~m-7humut@2603:c023:c000:6c7e:8945:ad24:9113:a962) (*.net *.split)
2023-09-25 13:30:55 +0200Dykam(Dykam@dykam.nl) (*.net *.split)
2023-09-25 13:30:56 +0200myxos(~myxos@cpe-65-28-251-121.cinci.res.rr.com) (*.net *.split)
2023-09-25 13:30:56 +0200quintasan(~quassel@quintasan.pl) (*.net *.split)
2023-09-25 13:30:56 +0200JoelMcCracken(5ea8252fbb@2604:bf00:561:2000::10e3) (*.net *.split)
2023-09-25 13:30:56 +0200n1essa(3d621153a5@2604:bf00:561:2000::df7) (*.net *.split)
2023-09-25 13:30:56 +0200jmcantrell(644f1bed9a@user/jmcantrell) (*.net *.split)
2023-09-25 13:30:56 +0200MonsoonSecrecy(f78c86e960@2604:bf00:561:2000::f99) (*.net *.split)
2023-09-25 13:30:56 +0200rselim(ce261f06ff@user/milesrout) (*.net *.split)
2023-09-25 13:30:56 +0200arcadewise(52968ed80d@2604:bf00:561:2000::3df) (*.net *.split)
2023-09-25 13:30:56 +0200Ankhers(e99e97ef8e@2604:bf00:561:2000::2a2) (*.net *.split)
2023-09-25 13:30:57 +0200shreyasminocha(51fdc93eda@user/shreyasminocha) (*.net *.split)
2023-09-25 13:30:57 +0200henrytill(e0180937c3@2604:bf00:561:2000::e8c) (*.net *.split)
2023-09-25 13:30:57 +0200samhh(7569f027cf@2604:bf00:561:2000::e4) (*.net *.split)
2023-09-25 13:30:57 +0200chaitlatte0(ea29c0bb16@user/chaitlatte0) (*.net *.split)
2023-09-25 13:30:57 +0200Hecate(~mariposa@user/hecate) (*.net *.split)
2023-09-25 13:30:57 +0200akspecs(00cc8321af@sourcehut/user/akspecs) (*.net *.split)
2023-09-25 13:30:57 +0200cpli(77fc530071@2604:bf00:561:2000::252) (*.net *.split)
2023-09-25 13:30:57 +0200Igloo(~ian@matrix.chaos.earth.li) (*.net *.split)
2023-09-25 13:30:57 +0200sus(1b7af6299f@user/zeromomentum) (*.net *.split)
2023-09-25 13:30:57 +0200cln_(cln@wtf.cx) (*.net *.split)
2023-09-25 13:30:57 +0200fvr(ef3e56ca8b@2604:bf00:561:2000::3c4) (*.net *.split)
2023-09-25 13:30:57 +0200jkoshy(99b9359beb@user/jkoshy) (*.net *.split)
2023-09-25 13:30:57 +0200whereiseveryone(206ba86c98@2604:bf00:561:2000::2e4) (*.net *.split)
2023-09-25 13:30:57 +0200fluffyballoon(45ce440a48@2604:bf00:561:2000::e2) (*.net *.split)
2023-09-25 13:30:57 +0200probie(cc0b34050a@user/probie) (*.net *.split)
2023-09-25 13:30:57 +0200evanrelf(3addc196af@2604:bf00:561:2000::f0) (*.net *.split)
2023-09-25 13:30:58 +0200jleightcap(7bc4014b62@user/jleightcap) (*.net *.split)
2023-09-25 13:30:58 +0200ymherklotz(cb2c9cfbdd@2604:bf00:561:2000::29a) (*.net *.split)
2023-09-25 13:30:58 +0200jakzale(6291399afa@user/jakzale) (*.net *.split)
2023-09-25 13:30:58 +0200theesm(2cbdf4b38a@2604:bf00:561:2000::11c8) (*.net *.split)
2023-09-25 13:30:58 +0200sm2n(ae95cb1267@user/sm2n) (*.net *.split)
2023-09-25 13:30:58 +0200b0o(0e4a0bf4c9@2604:bf00:561:2000::1bf) (*.net *.split)
2023-09-25 13:30:58 +0200ggb(a62ffbaf4f@2604:bf00:561:2000::3ac) (*.net *.split)
2023-09-25 13:30:58 +0200lukec(9dfd4d094e@2604:bf00:561:2000::10e) (*.net *.split)
2023-09-25 13:30:58 +0200filwisher(2e6936c793@2604:bf00:561:2000::170) (*.net *.split)
2023-09-25 13:30:58 +0200bsima1(9d7e39c8ad@2604:bf00:561:2000::dd) (*.net *.split)
2023-09-25 13:30:58 +0200raghavgururajan(ea769b8000@user/raghavgururajan) (*.net *.split)
2023-09-25 13:30:58 +0200fgaz_(1ff9197ed6@2604:bf00:561:2000::11ea) (*.net *.split)
2023-09-25 13:30:58 +0200B-J(~BenziJuni@88-149-64-112.du.xdsl.is) (*.net *.split)
2023-09-25 13:30:59 +0200kraftwerk28(~kraftwerk@164.92.219.160) (*.net *.split)
2023-09-25 13:30:59 +0200meooow_(~meooow@165.232.184.169) (*.net *.split)
2023-09-25 13:30:59 +0200tired(~tired@user/tired) (*.net *.split)
2023-09-25 13:30:59 +0200arkeet(~arkeet@moriya.ca) (*.net *.split)
2023-09-25 13:30:59 +0200urdh(~urdh@user/urdh) (*.net *.split)
2023-09-25 13:30:59 +0200samhh_samhh
2023-09-25 13:30:59 +0200Hobbyboy|BNCHobbyboy
2023-09-25 13:30:59 +0200parseval_parseval
2023-09-25 13:30:59 +0200Adeon_Adeon
2023-09-25 13:30:59 +0200carter_carter
2023-09-25 13:30:59 +0200agander_m_agander_m
2023-09-25 13:30:59 +0200hook54321_hook54321
2023-09-25 13:31:02 +0200joel135_joel135
2023-09-25 13:31:02 +0200NemesisD_NemesisD
2023-09-25 13:31:02 +0200hamishmack_hamishmack
2023-09-25 13:31:02 +0200Pent_Pent
2023-09-25 13:31:03 +0200n1essa_n1essa
2023-09-25 13:31:03 +0200jmcantrell_jmcantrell
2023-09-25 13:31:03 +0200MonsoonSecrecy_MonsoonSecrecy
2023-09-25 13:31:03 +0200arcadewise_arcadewise
2023-09-25 13:31:03 +0200rselim_rselim
2023-09-25 13:31:03 +0200Ankhers_Ankhers
2023-09-25 13:31:03 +0200henrytill_henrytill
2023-09-25 13:31:03 +0200chaitlatte0_chaitlatte0
2023-09-25 13:31:03 +0200JoelMcCracken_JoelMcCracken
2023-09-25 13:31:03 +0200shreyasminocha_shreyasminocha
2023-09-25 13:31:04 +0200cpli_cpli
2023-09-25 13:31:05 +0200probie_probie
2023-09-25 13:31:05 +0200evanrelf_evanrelf
2023-09-25 13:31:05 +0200jleightcap_jleightcap
2023-09-25 13:31:05 +0200ymherklotz_ymherklotz
2023-09-25 13:31:06 +0200sm2n_sm2n
2023-09-25 13:31:06 +0200fluffyballoon_fluffyballoon
2023-09-25 13:31:06 +0200ggb_ggb
2023-09-25 13:31:06 +0200lukec_lukec
2023-09-25 13:31:06 +0200b0o_b0o
2023-09-25 13:31:06 +0200bsima1_bsima1
2023-09-25 13:31:06 +0200fgaz__fgaz_
2023-09-25 13:31:06 +0200theesm_theesm
2023-09-25 13:31:06 +0200jakzale_jakzale
2023-09-25 13:31:06 +0200sus_sus
2023-09-25 13:31:07 +0200tromp(~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2023-09-25 13:31:18 +0200samhh(7569f027cf@2604:bf00:561:2000::e4) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2023-09-25 13:31:18 +0200chaitlatte0(ea29c0bb16@2604:bf00:561:2000::1124) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2023-09-25 13:31:18 +0200jleightcap(7bc4014b62@user/jleightcap) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2023-09-25 13:31:18 +0200akspecs_(00cc8321af@2604:bf00:561:2000::11a) (Write error: Connection reset by peer)
2023-09-25 13:31:19 +0200MonsoonSecrecy(f78c86e960@2604:bf00:561:2000::f99) (Write error: Connection reset by peer)
2023-09-25 13:31:19 +0200whereiseveryone(206ba86c98@2604:bf00:561:2000::2e4) (Write error: Connection reset by peer)
2023-09-25 13:31:19 +0200cpli(77fc530071@2604:bf00:561:2000::252) (Write error: Connection reset by peer)
2023-09-25 13:31:19 +0200sm2n(ae95cb1267@user/sm2n) (Write error: Connection reset by peer)
2023-09-25 13:31:19 +0200Ankhers(e99e97ef8e@2604:bf00:561:2000::2a2) (Write error: Connection reset by peer)
2023-09-25 13:31:19 +0200samhh__(7569f027cf@2604:bf00:561:2000::e4) (Write error: Connection reset by peer)
2023-09-25 13:31:19 +0200evanrelf(3addc196af@2604:bf00:561:2000::f0) (Write error: Connection reset by peer)
2023-09-25 13:31:19 +0200jakzale(6291399afa@user/jakzale) (Write error: Connection reset by peer)
2023-09-25 13:31:19 +0200filwisher_(2e6936c793@2604:bf00:561:2000::170) (Write error: Connection reset by peer)
2023-09-25 13:31:20 +0200n1essa(3d621153a5@2604:bf00:561:2000::df7) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2023-09-25 13:31:20 +0200jmcantrell(644f1bed9a@user/jmcantrell) (Write error: Connection reset by peer)
2023-09-25 13:31:20 +0200probie(cc0b34050a@user/probie) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2023-09-25 13:31:20 +0200jkoshy(99b9359beb@user/jkoshy) (Remote host closed the connection)
2023-09-25 13:31:20 +0200JoelMcCracken(5ea8252fbb@2604:bf00:561:2000::10e3) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2023-09-25 13:31:20 +0200fgaz_(1ff9197ed6@2604:bf00:561:2000::11ea) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2023-09-25 13:31:20 +0200aniketd(32aa4844cd@2604:bf00:561:2000::dcb) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2023-09-25 13:31:20 +0200theesm(2cbdf4b38a@2604:bf00:561:2000::11c8) (Write error: Connection reset by peer)
2023-09-25 13:31:20 +0200fluffyballoon(45ce440a48@2604:bf00:561:2000::e2) (Write error: Connection reset by peer)
2023-09-25 13:31:20 +0200henrytill(e0180937c3@2604:bf00:561:2000::e8c) (Remote host closed the connection)
2023-09-25 13:31:20 +0200rselim(ce261f06ff@user/milesrout) (Write error: Connection reset by peer)
2023-09-25 13:31:20 +0200sus(1b7af6299f@user/zeromomentum) (Write error: Connection reset by peer)
2023-09-25 13:31:20 +0200arcadewise(52968ed80d@2604:bf00:561:2000::3df) (Write error: Connection reset by peer)
2023-09-25 13:31:21 +0200b0o(0e4a0bf4c9@2604:bf00:561:2000::1bf) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2023-09-25 13:31:21 +0200lukec(9dfd4d094e@2604:bf00:561:2000::10e) (Write error: Connection reset by peer)
2023-09-25 13:31:21 +0200bsima1(9d7e39c8ad@2604:bf00:561:2000::dd) (Write error: Connection reset by peer)
2023-09-25 13:31:21 +0200raghavgururajan_(ea769b8000@2604:bf00:561:2000::242) (Write error: Connection reset by peer)
2023-09-25 13:31:21 +0200ggb(a62ffbaf4f@2604:bf00:561:2000::3ac) (Write error: Connection reset by peer)
2023-09-25 13:31:21 +0200fvr(ef3e56ca8b@2604:bf00:561:2000::3c4) (Write error: Connection reset by peer)
2023-09-25 13:31:21 +0200shreyasminocha(51fdc93eda@user/shreyasminocha) (Write error: Connection reset by peer)
2023-09-25 13:31:21 +0200ymherklotz(cb2c9cfbdd@2604:bf00:561:2000::29a) (Write error: Connection reset by peer)
2023-09-25 13:31:28 +0200ggb(a62ffbaf4f@2604:bf00:561:2000::3ac)
2023-09-25 13:31:29 +0200lukec(9dfd4d094e@2604:bf00:561:2000::10e)
2023-09-25 13:31:30 +0200raghavgururajan(ea769b8000@2604:bf00:561:2000::242)
2023-09-25 13:31:30 +0200fgaz_(1ff9197ed6@2604:bf00:561:2000::11ea)
2023-09-25 13:31:30 +0200bsima1(9d7e39c8ad@2604:bf00:561:2000::dd)
2023-09-25 13:31:31 +0200filwisher(2e6936c793@2604:bf00:561:2000::170)
2023-09-25 13:31:35 +0200aniketd(32aa4844cd@2604:bf00:561:2000::dcb)
2023-09-25 13:31:39 +0200raghavgururajan(ea769b8000@2604:bf00:561:2000::242) (Changing host)
2023-09-25 13:31:39 +0200raghavgururajan(ea769b8000@user/raghavgururajan)
2023-09-25 13:31:39 +0200fluffyballoon(45ce440a48@2604:bf00:561:2000::e2)
2023-09-25 13:31:39 +0200probie(cc0b34050a@user/probie)
2023-09-25 13:31:42 +0200jakzale(6291399afa@user/jakzale)
2023-09-25 13:31:46 +0200acidjnk_new(~acidjnk@p200300d6e7072f2208446d84ada81aba.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2023-09-25 13:31:47 +0200samhh(7569f027cf@2604:bf00:561:2000::e4)
2023-09-25 13:31:47 +0200MonsoonSecrecy(f78c86e960@2604:bf00:561:2000::f99)
2023-09-25 13:31:48 +0200sm2n(ae95cb1267@user/sm2n)
2023-09-25 13:31:55 +0200cpli(77fc530071@2604:bf00:561:2000::252)
2023-09-25 13:31:59 +0200evanrelf(3addc196af@2604:bf00:561:2000::f0)
2023-09-25 13:32:08 +0200sus(1b7af6299f@user/zeromomentum)
2023-09-25 13:32:48 +0200jkoshy(99b9359beb@user/jkoshy)
2023-09-25 13:32:48 +0200JoelMcCracken(5ea8252fbb@2604:bf00:561:2000::10e3)
2023-09-25 13:32:48 +0200shreyasminocha(51fdc93eda@user/shreyasminocha)
2023-09-25 13:32:48 +0200ymherklotz(cb2c9cfbdd@2604:bf00:561:2000::29a)
2023-09-25 13:32:48 +0200n1essa(3d621153a5@2604:bf00:561:2000::df7)
2023-09-25 13:32:48 +0200chaitlatte0(ea29c0bb16@user/chaitlatte0)
2023-09-25 13:32:51 +0200b0o(0e4a0bf4c9@2604:bf00:561:2000::1bf)
2023-09-25 13:32:56 +0200samhh_(7569f027cf@2604:bf00:561:2000::e4)
2023-09-25 13:32:56 +0200arcadewise(52968ed80d@2604:bf00:561:2000::3df)
2023-09-25 13:32:56 +0200Ankhers(e99e97ef8e@2604:bf00:561:2000::2a2)
2023-09-25 13:32:58 +0200fvr(ef3e56ca8b@2604:bf00:561:2000::3c4)
2023-09-25 13:33:00 +0200jleightcap(7bc4014b62@user/jleightcap)
2023-09-25 13:33:05 +0200rselim(ce261f06ff@user/milesrout)
2023-09-25 13:33:05 +0200whereiseveryone(206ba86c98@2604:bf00:561:2000::2e4)
2023-09-25 13:33:05 +0200jmcantrell(644f1bed9a@user/jmcantrell)
2023-09-25 13:33:06 +0200henrytill(e0180937c3@2604:bf00:561:2000::e8c)
2023-09-25 13:33:08 +0200_0xa(~user@user/0xa/x-3134607) (Quit: ZNC 1.6.6+deb1ubuntu0.2 - http://znc.in)
2023-09-25 13:33:08 +0200lortabac(~lortabac@2a01:e0a:541:b8f0:58e5:558:bddf:9f44)
2023-09-25 13:33:12 +0200theesm(2cbdf4b38a@2604:bf00:561:2000::11c8)
2023-09-25 13:33:13 +0200akspecs(00cc8321af@sourcehut/user/akspecs)
2023-09-25 13:33:21 +0200_0xa(~user@2001:19f0:5001:2ba8:5400:1ff:feda:88fc)
2023-09-25 13:33:21 +0200_0xa(~user@2001:19f0:5001:2ba8:5400:1ff:feda:88fc) (Changing host)
2023-09-25 13:33:21 +0200_0xa(~user@user/0xa/x-3134607)
2023-09-25 13:34:32 +0200flukiluke_flukiluke
2023-09-25 13:35:08 +0200andjjj23(~irc@107.170.228.47)
2023-09-25 13:35:08 +0200jludwig(~justin@li657-110.members.linode.com)
2023-09-25 13:35:08 +0200Dykam(Dykam@dykam.nl)
2023-09-25 13:35:08 +0200myxos(~myxos@cpe-65-28-251-121.cinci.res.rr.com)
2023-09-25 13:35:08 +0200quintasan(~quassel@quintasan.pl)
2023-09-25 13:35:08 +0200Hecate(~mariposa@user/hecate)
2023-09-25 13:35:08 +0200Igloo(~ian@matrix.chaos.earth.li)
2023-09-25 13:35:08 +0200cln_(cln@wtf.cx)
2023-09-25 13:35:08 +0200B-J(~BenziJuni@88-149-64-112.du.xdsl.is)
2023-09-25 13:35:08 +0200kraftwerk28(~kraftwerk@164.92.219.160)
2023-09-25 13:35:08 +0200meooow_(~meooow@165.232.184.169)
2023-09-25 13:35:08 +0200arkeet(~arkeet@moriya.ca)
2023-09-25 13:35:08 +0200urdh(~urdh@user/urdh)
2023-09-25 13:35:10 +0200cln_(cln@wtf.cx) (Max SendQ exceeded)
2023-09-25 13:37:46 +0200pounce(~pounce@user/cute/pounce) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2023-09-25 13:37:55 +0200CiaoSen(~Jura@2a05:5800:2a9:dd00:664b:f0ff:fe37:9ef)
2023-09-25 13:39:00 +0200tromp(~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl)
2023-09-25 13:39:36 +0200pounce(~pounce@user/cute/pounce)
2023-09-25 13:40:25 +0200cln_(cln@wtf.cx)
2023-09-25 13:43:22 +0200haritz(~hrtz@2a02:8010:65b5:0:6009:6384:e3cb:2220)
2023-09-25 13:43:22 +0200haritz(~hrtz@2a02:8010:65b5:0:6009:6384:e3cb:2220) (Changing host)
2023-09-25 13:43:22 +0200haritz(~hrtz@user/haritz)
2023-09-25 13:43:53 +0200AWizzArd(~code@gehrels.uberspace.de) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2023-09-25 13:44:07 +0200AWizzArd(~code@gehrels.uberspace.de)
2023-09-25 13:44:42 +0200_0xa(~user@user/0xa/x-3134607) (Quit: ZNC 1.7.5+deb4 - https://znc.in)
2023-09-25 13:45:06 +0200bitdex(~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex) (Quit: = "")
2023-09-25 13:45:49 +0200_0xa(~user@2001:19f0:5001:2ba8:5400:1ff:feda:88fc)
2023-09-25 13:45:49 +0200_0xa(~user@2001:19f0:5001:2ba8:5400:1ff:feda:88fc) (Changing host)
2023-09-25 13:45:49 +0200_0xa(~user@user/0xa/x-3134607)
2023-09-25 13:45:55 +0200Inst(~Inst@120.244.192.250) (Remote host closed the connection)
2023-09-25 13:46:20 +0200Inst(~Inst@120.244.192.250)
2023-09-25 13:46:35 +0200danse-nr3_(~francesco@151.35.159.44) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2023-09-25 13:51:28 +0200Guest46(~Guest46@176.122.87.241)
2023-09-25 13:52:31 +0200 <Guest46> https://paste.tomsmeding.com/fUZTUfaM
2023-09-25 13:52:49 +0200 <Guest46> Is it possible to make MyArry a part of BasicType without losing the ability to limit the types that MyArray can contain?
2023-09-25 13:54:49 +0200 <Guest46> https://paste.tomsmeding.com/Ek2N4sQk
2023-09-25 13:54:51 +0200 <Guest46> the first one is wrong
2023-09-25 13:55:16 +0200 <[exa]> Guest46: you may make a generic constructor that only accepts stuff that's in a certain typeclass
2023-09-25 13:55:32 +0200 <[exa]> then you decide with the typeclass on what values can be contained (and how they would be interpreted)
2023-09-25 13:56:20 +0200 <[exa]> (also cf. here https://wiki.haskell.org/Existential_type )
2023-09-25 14:00:59 +0200 <Inst> btw, how idiomatic is (a `binaryFunction` b) in haskell?
2023-09-25 14:01:10 +0200 <Inst> I use the idiom a lot, I'm wondering to what extent it makes things more readable or if it's just me codegolfing
2023-09-25 14:01:47 +0200 <Inst> definitely if the binaryFunction was named as a transitive verb, it'd make sense, but could also be confusing
2023-09-25 14:01:59 +0200Guest80(~Guest38@68.170.74.198) (Quit: Client closed)
2023-09-25 14:04:09 +0200tromp(~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2023-09-25 14:05:34 +0200tromp(~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl)
2023-09-25 14:10:01 +0200kuribas(~user@ip-188-118-57-242.reverse.destiny.be) (Remote host closed the connection)
2023-09-25 14:10:09 +0200kuribas(~user@ip-188-118-57-242.reverse.destiny.be)
2023-09-25 14:12:08 +0200danse-nr3_(~francesco@151.35.159.44)
2023-09-25 14:13:51 +0200cfricke(~cfricke@user/cfricke) (Quit: WeeChat 4.0.4)
2023-09-25 14:14:32 +0200hugo-(~hugo@verdigris.lysator.liu.se)
2023-09-25 14:19:29 +0200 <Logio> It's good when it makes things more readable and bad when it makes them less readable. It's not like you can't have better readable alias for the non-operator use
2023-09-25 14:24:51 +0200Guest46(~Guest46@176.122.87.241) (Quit: Client closed)
2023-09-25 14:35:11 +0200hugo-(~hugo@verdigris.lysator.liu.se) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
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2023-09-25 14:56:30 +0200 <danse-nr3_> i keep slippering down the slope, now i start thinking it would be nice to have $ for types
2023-09-25 14:58:18 +0200 <Rembane> danse-nr3_: So you don't have to write as many parentheses in the hairier type definitions?
2023-09-25 14:58:40 +0200Inst(~Inst@120.244.192.250) (Remote host closed the connection)
2023-09-25 14:58:47 +0200tromp(~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl)
2023-09-25 14:58:55 +0200 <danse-nr3_> :P
2023-09-25 14:59:05 +0200Inst(~Inst@120.244.192.250)
2023-09-25 15:00:05 +0200hugo-(~hugo@verdigris.lysator.liu.se) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2023-09-25 15:00:28 +0200 <danse-nr3_> well it's HasMap a (HasMap b (HashMap c)) ... hairy, but kind of easy to figure out
2023-09-25 15:00:53 +0200 <danse-nr3_> oops i wanted to write `HashMap c d` at the end
2023-09-25 15:01:51 +0200edr(~edr@user/edr)
2023-09-25 15:02:11 +0200azimut(~azimut@gateway/tor-sasl/azimut)
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2023-09-25 15:07:29 +0200vglfr(~vglfr@88.154.52.228)
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2023-09-25 15:17:44 +0200hugo-(~hugo@verdigris.lysator.liu.se)
2023-09-25 15:19:51 +0200misterfish(~misterfis@87.215.131.102) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2023-09-25 15:23:31 +0200 <danse-nr3_> :t foldr
2023-09-25 15:23:32 +0200 <lambdabot> Foldable t => (a -> b -> b) -> b -> t a -> b
2023-09-25 15:25:05 +0200 <danse-nr3_> @hoogle a -> t (a -> a) -> a
2023-09-25 15:25:06 +0200 <lambdabot> No results found
2023-09-25 15:25:23 +0200 <danse-nr3_> seems handy
2023-09-25 15:25:35 +0200vglfr(~vglfr@88.154.52.228) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2023-09-25 15:28:26 +0200vglfr(~vglfr@cli-188-239-233-89.bbn.slav.dn.ua)
2023-09-25 15:33:59 +0200 <jackdk> :t foldr ($)
2023-09-25 15:34:00 +0200 <lambdabot> Foldable t => a -> t (a -> a) -> a
2023-09-25 15:34:23 +0200 <jackdk> it's an idiom which shows up a lot in frp-ish code
2023-09-25 15:35:56 +0200 <danse-nr3_> nice, i had:
2023-09-25 15:36:03 +0200 <danse-nr3_> :t foldr (.) id
2023-09-25 15:36:04 +0200 <lambdabot> Foldable t => t (b -> b) -> b -> b
2023-09-25 15:39:36 +0200Square3(~Square4@user/square) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2023-09-25 15:40:59 +0200Square3(~Square4@user/square) (Client Quit)
2023-09-25 15:41:13 +0200chomwitt(~chomwitt@2a02:587:7a2f:d000:1ac0:4dff:fedb:a3f1) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2023-09-25 15:41:30 +0200Square3(~Square4@user/square)
2023-09-25 15:43:23 +0200 <c_wraith> note that `foldr ($)' isn't stack-efficient.
2023-09-25 15:44:32 +0200 <c_wraith> at least, not if the operation is strict.
2023-09-25 15:44:46 +0200acidjnk_new(~acidjnk@p200300d6e7072f220823f3242e83abd8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2023-09-25 15:44:59 +0200 <c_wraith> (it's great if several functions in the list are non-strict)
2023-09-25 15:47:56 +0200CiaoSen(~Jura@2a05:5800:2a9:dd00:664b:f0ff:fe37:9ef) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2023-09-25 15:49:43 +0200 <danse-nr3_> yeah, worth reminding, and probably a good reason not to have this wrapped into another function which would make the `foldr` less visible
2023-09-25 15:52:59 +0200eggplant_(~Eggplanta@2600:1700:38c5:d800:b000:8eef:3ca4:f8cf)
2023-09-25 15:55:03 +0200 <haskellbridge> <m​auke> type a :$ b = a b
2023-09-25 15:55:24 +0200eggplantade(~Eggplanta@2600:1700:38c5:d800:9164:1cf8:674e:b64a) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2023-09-25 15:55:45 +0200 <danse-nr3_> >:-D
2023-09-25 15:56:13 +0200Square3(~Square4@user/square) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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2023-09-25 16:15:55 +0200systemfault(sid267009@id-267009.uxbridge.irccloud.com) ()
2023-09-25 16:16:09 +0200systemfault(sid267009@about/typescript/member/systemfault)
2023-09-25 16:22:53 +0200hugo-(~hugo@verdigris.lysator.liu.se)
2023-09-25 16:25:01 +0200doyougnu-(~doyougnu@45.46.170.68)
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2023-09-25 16:39:30 +0200Inst(~Inst@120.244.192.250) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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2023-09-25 16:46:11 +0200hiyori(~hiyori@user/hiyori) (Quit: Client closed)
2023-09-25 16:46:11 +0200Unicorn_Princess(~Unicorn_P@user/Unicorn-Princess/x-3540542)
2023-09-25 16:46:42 +0200EvanR_EvanR
2023-09-25 16:47:06 +0200waleee(~waleee@2001:9b0:21c:4000:5bf9:6515:c030:57b7)
2023-09-25 16:48:16 +0200 <Inst> Btw, anyone else watching NeoHaskell? It's quite entertaining, from a guy who claims he can build a simple Haskell Android app in 2 hours.
2023-09-25 16:50:54 +0200danse-nr3_(~francesco@151.35.159.44) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2023-09-25 16:53:00 +0200chomwitt(~chomwitt@2a02:587:7a2f:d000:1ac0:4dff:fedb:a3f1) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2023-09-25 16:53:10 +0200[itchyjunk](~itchyjunk@user/itchyjunk/x-7353470)
2023-09-25 16:54:46 +0200phma_(~phma@host-67-44-208-139.hnremote.net)
2023-09-25 16:56:31 +0200phma(phma@2001:5b0:210d:9478:bc47:d0f:e755:6447) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2023-09-25 17:10:46 +0200 <sshine> I've never heard about it.
2023-09-25 17:12:23 +0200 <sshine> it looks like a cool ambition. I can't see exactly how this dialect is embedded, but the installation instructions ask you to install the usual Haskell tools.
2023-09-25 17:12:51 +0200phma_phma
2023-09-25 17:12:54 +0200 <sshine> I wonder if they address most of their goals via an alternative standard library.
2023-09-25 17:20:20 +0200hugo-(~hugo@verdigris.lysator.liu.se)
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2023-09-25 17:58:06 +0200Adeon(sid418992@id-418992.lymington.irccloud.com) ()
2023-09-25 17:58:40 +0200Adeon__(sid418992@id-418992.lymington.irccloud.com)
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2023-09-25 18:04:29 +0200leon_on9527(~yoyofreem@176.97.76.178)
2023-09-25 18:04:35 +0200Adeon__Adeon
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2023-09-25 18:10:25 +0200famubu(~julinuser@user/famubu)
2023-09-25 18:10:42 +0200 <famubu> Hi. Is the GADTs extension enabled by default in ghc?
2023-09-25 18:11:39 +0200euleritian(~euleritia@ip4d16fc12.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de)
2023-09-25 18:14:50 +0200 <danse-nr3_> i don't think so
2023-09-25 18:16:26 +0200 <ddellacosta> famubu: with GHC2021 it is https://downloads.haskell.org/ghc/latest/docs/users_guide/exts/control.html?highlight=#extension-G…
2023-09-25 18:16:50 +0200tromp(~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl)
2023-09-25 18:18:29 +0200kuribas(~user@ip-188-118-57-242.reverse.destiny.be) (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 27.1))
2023-09-25 18:19:44 +0200 <danse-nr3_> thanks ddellacosta, did not know off the top of my head
2023-09-25 18:20:04 +0200chomwitt(~chomwitt@2a02:587:7a2f:d000:1ac0:4dff:fedb:a3f1) (Remote host closed the connection)
2023-09-25 18:20:58 +0200 <famubu> Thanks.
2023-09-25 18:21:55 +0200 <famubu> Is there a place where the list of ghc extension can be found?
2023-09-25 18:22:04 +0200 <famubu> I was looking for DataKinds. Closest found was https://downloads.haskell.org/ghc/latest/docs/users_guide/exts/type_data.html
2023-09-25 18:22:49 +0200machinedgod(~machinedg@d198-53-218-113.abhsia.telus.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2023-09-25 18:23:02 +0200 <geekosaur> https://downloads.haskell.org/ghc/9.6.2/docs/users_guide/exts/data_kinds.html
2023-09-25 18:23:47 +0200 <geekosaur> I don't think the users guide has a simple index of extensions but `ghc --supported-languages` will list them without descriptions
2023-09-25 18:24:14 +0200sabino(~sabino@user/sabino)
2023-09-25 18:24:31 +0200 <mauke> https://downloads.haskell.org/ghc/latest/docs/users_guide/exts/table.html
2023-09-25 18:25:37 +0200 <famubu> +1
2023-09-25 18:25:56 +0200 <famubu> Is there a way to know which extensions are enable by default as well?
2023-09-25 18:27:45 +0200 <mauke> https://downloads.haskell.org/ghc/latest/docs/users_guide/exts/control.html
2023-09-25 18:27:48 +0200xmachina(~xmachina@modemcable048.127-56-74.mc.videotron.ca) (Quit: WeeChat 4.0.4)
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2023-09-25 18:32:53 +0200misterfish(~misterfis@84-53-85-146.bbserv.nl)
2023-09-25 18:33:37 +0200hgolden(~hgolden@2603-8000-9d00-3ed1-a11a-09f7-e752-5c28.res6.spectrum.com) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2023-09-25 18:36:05 +0200ChaiTRex(~ChaiTRex@user/chaitrex) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2023-09-25 18:38:20 +0200 <famubu> Ah.. okay.
2023-09-25 18:38:26 +0200euleritian(~euleritia@ip4d16fc12.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de)
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2023-09-25 19:04:12 +0200AlexNoo_AlexNoo
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2023-09-25 19:06:48 +0200danse-nr3_(~francesco@151.37.149.245)
2023-09-25 19:07:46 +0200gensyst(~gensyst@user/gensyst)
2023-09-25 19:08:21 +0200hugo-(znc@verdigris.lysator.liu.se)
2023-09-25 19:09:02 +0200 <gensyst> In your experiences, would a slice (Vector) be substantially faster than drop&take (ByteString)? Both methods are O(1), but I wonder if vector will still be quite faster, esp. if each bytestring or vector is small (around 200 bytes)
2023-09-25 19:09:29 +0200 <geekosaur> ByteString does slices too
2023-09-25 19:09:52 +0200 <geekosaur> iirc drop and take in particular use slices
2023-09-25 19:10:41 +0200 <gensyst> each bytestring is only 160 bytes, consisting of 8 serialized doubles. i have zillions of these small bytestrings. wanna split&deserialize as fast as possible.
2023-09-25 19:11:24 +0200danse-nr3_(~francesco@151.37.149.245) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2023-09-25 19:11:32 +0200 <gensyst> i'm finding the bytestring slicing takes substantial time, although the deserialization is the main overhead
2023-09-25 19:18:55 +0200gmg(~user@user/gehmehgeh)
2023-09-25 19:20:58 +0200phma_(phma@2001:5b0:210f:7ad8:cf80:dd9b:ec34:9d9)
2023-09-25 19:21:06 +0200Inst_(~Inst@120.244.192.250) (Remote host closed the connection)
2023-09-25 19:21:30 +0200Inst_(~Inst@120.244.192.250)
2023-09-25 19:23:13 +0200 <dminuoso> gensyst: What does "slicing" mean to you exactly?
2023-09-25 19:23:52 +0200 <dminuoso> Merely taking offset/length slices is O(1) because no allocations occur.
2023-09-25 19:23:54 +0200 <gensyst> dminuoso, get a substring at index,length
2023-09-25 19:23:59 +0200 <dminuoso> Okay, thats O(1).
2023-09-25 19:24:14 +0200phma(~phma@host-67-44-208-139.hnremote.net) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2023-09-25 19:24:38 +0200 <EvanR> you still might need to allocate a new ByteString constructor to hold the new offset length
2023-09-25 19:24:56 +0200 <dminuoso> gensyst: A ByteString is literally just a pointer into raw memory and some length. `take` just adjusts the pointer and length accordingly.
2023-09-25 19:26:08 +0200 <dminuoso> gensyst: If you have maximum deserialization performance requirements, look no further than flatparse.
2023-09-25 19:27:55 +0200 <Inst_> @sshine
2023-09-25 19:27:55 +0200 <lambdabot> Unknown command, try @list
2023-09-25 19:28:01 +0200 <Inst_> looks like it's an alt prelude project right now
2023-09-25 19:28:30 +0200 <Inst_> I'm just waiting to see if he can deliver, supposedly he has most of a "Haskell-based Android app in 2 hours or your money back" lib ready
2023-09-25 19:30:39 +0200 <exarkun> Inst_: You know reflex-platform also supports Android?
2023-09-25 19:30:55 +0200 <exarkun> and supposedly iOS, though I haven't tried that myself
2023-09-25 19:31:26 +0200fendor(~fendor@2a02:8388:1640:be00:aab:1226:f274:5021) (Remote host closed the connection)
2023-09-25 19:31:31 +0200 <Inst_> iirc reflex is bound to 8.6 or 8.8
2023-09-25 19:32:56 +0200 <exarkun> it's at least at 8.10
2023-09-25 19:33:05 +0200_ht(~Thunderbi@28-52-174-82.ftth.glasoperator.nl)
2023-09-25 19:33:12 +0200eggplantade(~Eggplanta@2600:1700:38c5:d800:b000:8eef:3ca4:f8cf)
2023-09-25 19:33:40 +0200 <exarkun> https://github.com/reflex-frp/reflex-platform/blob/develop/ChangeLog.md#v1100 8.10.7 out of the box
2023-09-25 19:33:46 +0200famubu(~julinuser@user/famubu) ()
2023-09-25 19:35:39 +0200 <Inst_> Yeah but goodbye 9.0.x
2023-09-25 19:35:52 +0200 <Inst_> And from what I've been told, Reflex is a pain to learn
2023-09-25 19:36:07 +0200 <Inst_> It seems Obsidian was selling support and guidance for Reflex FRP, so...
2023-09-25 19:36:29 +0200 <exarkun> I'm not trying to convince you that Reflex is the perfect solution, but you were making a big point about Haskell on Android so it seemed worth mentioning.
2023-09-25 19:36:32 +0200eggplantade(~Eggplanta@2600:1700:38c5:d800:b000:8eef:3ca4:f8cf) (Remote host closed the connection)
2023-09-25 19:36:47 +0200eggplantade(~Eggplanta@2600:1700:38c5:d800:b000:8eef:3ca4:f8cf)
2023-09-25 19:36:53 +0200 <EvanR> don't let people tell you what is or isn't hard to learn
2023-09-25 19:37:08 +0200 <EvanR> that's serious external locus of control
2023-09-25 19:37:13 +0200 <exarkun> (also I've written Reflex apps and I'm certainly no wizard...)
2023-09-25 19:38:03 +0200 <exarkun> at some level Reflex is "just" React carried all the way, for Haskell. Everyone loves React, don't they?
2023-09-25 19:38:54 +0200danza_(~francesco@151.37.149.245)
2023-09-25 19:39:05 +0200 <EvanR> uhg
2023-09-25 19:39:46 +0200 <Inst_> I guess what I'm really scared of is downloading 8.10.7 knowing that it's ancient
2023-09-25 19:39:53 +0200 <Inst_> Even though I've used that before
2023-09-25 19:39:54 +0200danse-nr3_(~francesco@151.37.149.245)
2023-09-25 19:42:05 +0200 <EvanR> it's a common mistake, thinking writing haskell programs for android will be simple and straightforward to set up
2023-09-25 19:42:25 +0200 <probie> 25 months old is not ancient
2023-09-25 19:43:15 +0200 <EvanR> seriously though ghcup makes it easy to use an old ghc
2023-09-25 19:43:24 +0200 <EvanR> so that's not what you should be worried about
2023-09-25 19:43:34 +0200 <Inst_> Also, at the time, I was on Windows, and I was there when someone contacted Obsidian guys
2023-09-25 19:43:57 +0200 <Inst_> and got them to patch in allowing Windows to install, albeit unsupported
2023-09-25 19:45:29 +0200tromp(~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl)
2023-09-25 19:47:39 +0200danse-nr3_(~francesco@151.37.149.245) (Remote host closed the connection)
2023-09-25 19:52:28 +0200elkcl(~elkcl@broadband-95-84-226-240.ip.moscow.rt.ru)
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2023-09-25 20:04:38 +0200Simikando(~Simikando@adsl-dyn-244.95-102-83.t-com.sk)
2023-09-25 20:13:35 +0200danza_(~francesco@151.37.149.245) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2023-09-25 20:13:57 +0200misterfish(~misterfis@84-53-85-146.bbserv.nl) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2023-09-25 20:17:58 +0200Inst_(~Inst@120.244.192.250) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2023-09-25 20:23:41 +0200 <gensyst> dminuoso, thanks fort he flatparse reco
2023-09-25 20:24:23 +0200gensyst(~gensyst@user/gensyst) (Quit: Leaving)
2023-09-25 20:25:07 +0200Simikando(~Simikando@adsl-dyn-244.95-102-83.t-com.sk) (Quit: Leaving)
2023-09-25 20:28:47 +0200phma_phma
2023-09-25 20:32:36 +0200ec(~ec@gateway/tor-sasl/ec) (Remote host closed the connection)
2023-09-25 20:33:04 +0200ec(~ec@gateway/tor-sasl/ec)
2023-09-25 20:38:20 +0200 <mauke> https://mastodon.online/@barubary@infosec.exchange/111126547004622373
2023-09-25 20:39:43 +0200xmachina(xmachina@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/xmachina) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2023-09-25 20:41:56 +0200Tuplanolla(~Tuplanoll@91-159-68-236.elisa-laajakaista.fi)
2023-09-25 20:42:46 +0200dhil(~dhil@78.45.150.83.ewm.ftth.as8758.net) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2023-09-25 20:44:13 +0200 <erisco> mauke, well, the report says the compiler is wrong https://www.haskell.org/onlinereport/exps.html#sections
2023-09-25 20:44:23 +0200 <erisco> or the report says the report is inconsistent
2023-09-25 20:44:44 +0200 <geekosaur> I think it's documented that ghc doesn't quite follow the report there as an optimization?
2023-09-25 20:45:49 +0200 <mauke> that's Haskell 98, though
2023-09-25 20:46:03 +0200eriscowishes he could have problems working on complex production applications written in Haskell
2023-09-25 20:46:15 +0200 <erisco> is there a newer report?
2023-09-25 20:46:22 +0200 <mauke> https://www.haskell.org/onlinereport/haskell2010/haskellch3.html#x8-300003.5
2023-09-25 20:46:34 +0200 <mauke> no difference :-)
2023-09-25 20:47:42 +0200 <EvanR> that's really annoying
2023-09-25 20:47:59 +0200 <EvanR> how does the monad know
2023-09-25 20:48:11 +0200 <erisco> I dunno which ghc version is being used but here's 9.0.1 https://downloads.haskell.org/~ghc/9.0.1/docs/html/users_guide/bugs.html#operator-sections
2023-09-25 20:48:27 +0200 <geekosaur> it's either lazier or stricter than H98 specifies, I forget which
2023-09-25 20:48:53 +0200 <mauke> https://downloads.haskell.org/ghc/latest/docs/users_guide/exts/rebindable_syntax.html#postfix-oper…
2023-09-25 20:48:54 +0200 <EvanR> exactly what in the spec are we talking about
2023-09-25 20:49:07 +0200 <EvanR> >> ?
2023-09-25 20:49:07 +0200Inst_(~Inst@120.244.192.250)
2023-09-25 20:49:31 +0200 <erisco> Though, their nonstandard exception indicates the eta-reduced form should have worked
2023-09-25 20:49:53 +0200 <erisco> I mean should not have worked :P
2023-09-25 20:50:59 +0200 <erisco> EvanR, the only thing of interest appears to be the operator section
2023-09-25 20:51:12 +0200 <geekosaur> EvanR, I think we're talking about an operator section being identical to its eta-expanded form per the Report, but in ghc it's not? Not any particular operator, except insofar as the resulting different strictness might alter the strictness of a monad's bind and by extension `>>`
2023-09-25 20:52:11 +0200 <geekosaur> And `fix` will be very sensitive to (lack of) laziness
2023-09-25 20:52:16 +0200xmachina(~xmachina@modemcable048.127-56-74.mc.videotron.ca)
2023-09-25 20:52:16 +0200 <erisco> I'll assume the instance isn't undefined because that seems rather unlikely, given that one version "works"
2023-09-25 20:53:14 +0200 <erisco> So I am going to say, without knowing the precise GHC version, this looks like an undocumented nonstandard behaviour (or a bug)
2023-09-25 20:53:47 +0200eggplantade(~Eggplanta@2600:1700:38c5:d800:b000:8eef:3ca4:f8cf) (Remote host closed the connection)
2023-09-25 20:55:11 +0200 <EvanR> > let x @ loop = 5 in fix (undefined @)
2023-09-25 20:55:12 +0200 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:37: error: parse error on input ‘)’
2023-09-25 20:55:43 +0200 <mauke> > let x @ loop = 5 in (x, loop)
2023-09-25 20:55:45 +0200 <lambdabot> (5,5)
2023-09-25 20:56:04 +0200Pickchea(~private@user/pickchea)
2023-09-25 20:56:06 +0200 <erisco> unintentional bind pattern?
2023-09-25 20:57:15 +0200 <EvanR> > let x %% loop = 5 in fix (undefined %%)
2023-09-25 20:57:16 +0200 <lambdabot> 5
2023-09-25 20:57:26 +0200 <EvanR> that was slow
2023-09-25 20:57:27 +0200tromp(~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2023-09-25 20:58:04 +0200misterfish(~misterfis@84-53-85-146.bbserv.nl)
2023-09-25 20:58:45 +0200 <erisco> oh, it of course is including infinite loops as undefined, isn't it
2023-09-25 21:00:10 +0200 <monochrom> Yeah, The Haskell Report requires (k +) = (\x -> k + x), but GHC has deviated from that for a long time, it does (+) k, which is different in unusual cases.
2023-09-25 21:00:52 +0200 <EvanR> (\x -> k + x) is in WHNF while (+) k isn't
2023-09-25 21:00:56 +0200 <erisco> So you can just make m >> depend on n >> for the same instance. GHC will recognise this loop and not do any work (iirc it throws, though)
2023-09-25 21:01:23 +0200Sgeo(~Sgeo@user/sgeo)
2023-09-25 21:01:40 +0200 <monochrom> IIRC at some point someone pointed it out, then SPJ was like "oh, right, but wontfix" :)
2023-09-25 21:01:54 +0200 <EvanR> typical
2023-09-25 21:02:05 +0200 <monochrom> or maybe s/wonfix/I have a reason for this/
2023-09-25 21:02:21 +0200 <EvanR> more likely
2023-09-25 21:02:21 +0200 <erisco> I don't really get what the issue is
2023-09-25 21:02:29 +0200 <erisco> why wouldn't it just rewrite as the report says
2023-09-25 21:02:43 +0200pavonia(~user@user/siracusa)
2023-09-25 21:02:57 +0200 <erisco> (%) expr can be distinct from (expr %) as far as I am concerned
2023-09-25 21:03:04 +0200 <monochrom> Something about in most cases the "(+) k" way is more optimized.
2023-09-25 21:03:45 +0200 <EvanR> erisco, and what would that distinction be
2023-09-25 21:04:21 +0200 <erisco> EvanR, the WHNF
2023-09-25 21:04:31 +0200 <EvanR> neither are WHNF
2023-09-25 21:04:40 +0200 <mauke> see the "operator sections" link above. the ghc manual explains it
2023-09-25 21:04:56 +0200 <mauke> (expr %) is WHNF because it's a lambda
2023-09-25 21:05:04 +0200 <erisco> ^
2023-09-25 21:05:44 +0200 <EvanR> oh
2023-09-25 21:11:05 +0200 <monochrom> I think here is a difference in practice, it affects memoization. "(%) x = let mem = [0, x ..] in \y -> mem !! y". Then (\y -> 5 % y) and (%) 5 have different memoization/reuse behaviours.
2023-09-25 21:11:55 +0200 <monochrom> If you define "f = (%) 5" then "f 3" and "f 100" share the same internal list.
2023-09-25 21:12:17 +0200 <monochrom> If you define "g = (\y -> 5 % y)" then "g 3" and "g 100" don't share.
2023-09-25 21:12:42 +0200 <monochrom> Then you can define "h = (5 %)" to see whether it
2023-09-25 21:12:47 +0200 <monochrom> 's more like f or more like g.
2023-09-25 21:14:06 +0200 <EvanR> well that syntax is not obvious now xD
2023-09-25 21:14:57 +0200 <erisco> you talkin' ghc or you talkin' haskell
2023-09-25 21:15:01 +0200 <monochrom> GHC.
2023-09-25 21:15:41 +0200 <monochrom> I cannot test the Haskell Report itself. It's just an html file. :)
2023-09-25 21:15:51 +0200 <EvanR> @src fix
2023-09-25 21:15:52 +0200 <lambdabot> fix f = let x = f x in x
2023-09-25 21:16:07 +0200eriscobraces for the "executable specification" people
2023-09-25 21:17:10 +0200mysl(~mysl@user/mysl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2023-09-25 21:17:43 +0200 <monochrom> Well the other factor is that the Haskell Report isn't rigorous enough for even calculating this by hand.
2023-09-25 21:18:31 +0200 <monochrom> As opposed to «The Definition of Standard ML»
2023-09-25 21:19:37 +0200 <monochrom> It has a complete operational semantics, you can actually follow it to run SML code by hand step by step.
2023-09-25 21:19:50 +0200 <davean> monochrom: The lack of semantics in the Haskell Report is super annoying.
2023-09-25 21:20:54 +0200 <monochrom> Yeah.
2023-09-25 21:21:19 +0200 <monochrom> On top of that, some anal people deduce and advocate "therefore Haskell is not lazy, just non-strict".
2023-09-25 21:21:36 +0200eggplantade(~Eggplanta@2600:1700:38c5:d800:b000:8eef:3ca4:f8cf)
2023-09-25 21:22:07 +0200mysl(~mysl@user/mysl)
2023-09-25 21:22:27 +0200 <EvanR> you can do anything as long as it's not strict
2023-09-25 21:22:34 +0200 <monochrom> Therefore whenever someone has problems with space consumption, their stance implies that we don't know why and how to fix, because we don't even know it's lazy evaluation.
2023-09-25 21:24:07 +0200 <monochrom> Ironically "seq" was added with laziness and eagerness in mind, not just the on-paper "strictness".
2023-09-25 21:24:38 +0200 <mauke> why is it called seq if it doesn't uence
2023-09-25 21:24:57 +0200 <monochrom> We know because John Hughes in an interview said that his contribution was adding seq to help with space consumption when laziness hurts and selectively disabling it is the fix.
2023-09-25 21:26:15 +0200 <monochrom> All in all, hiding behind "the Report just says strict and nonstrict" is hidning behind legalese.
2023-09-25 21:26:17 +0200 <davean> monochrom: I mean the just non-strict is clearly obviously true?
2023-09-25 21:26:51 +0200 <davean> That doesn't really relate to space leaks though because we can annotate strictness and we can calculate demand
2023-09-25 21:29:05 +0200lortabac(~lortabac@2a01:e0a:541:b8f0:e2bb:b6eb:60f8:7167)
2023-09-25 21:29:35 +0200waleee(~waleee@2001:9b0:21c:4000:5bf9:6515:c030:57b7)
2023-09-25 21:30:05 +0200 <EvanR> it's a labor theory of semantics, what the code means is established through programmer working to accomplish actual stuff, like evaluating this or that at some time to save actual space. Regardless of standards
2023-09-25 21:30:20 +0200 <EvanR> which avoids another external locus of control
2023-09-25 21:30:25 +0200mysl(~mysl@user/mysl) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2023-09-25 21:33:33 +0200mysl(~mysl@user/mysl)
2023-09-25 21:34:03 +0200 <monochrom> :)
2023-09-25 21:34:11 +0200chiselfuse(~chiselfus@user/chiselfuse) (Remote host closed the connection)
2023-09-25 21:35:01 +0200chiselfuse(~chiselfus@user/chiselfuse)
2023-09-25 21:36:30 +0200Inst_(~Inst@120.244.192.250) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2023-09-25 21:36:45 +0200radiance(~renegade@bcdcac82.skybroadband.com) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
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2023-09-25 21:39:22 +0200radiance(~renegade@bcdcac82.skybroadband.com)
2023-09-25 21:39:47 +0200Inst_(~Inst@120.244.192.250)
2023-09-25 21:53:25 +0200hugo-(znc@verdigris.lysator.liu.se) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2023-09-25 22:07:25 +0200sord937(~sord937@gateway/tor-sasl/sord937) (Quit: sord937)
2023-09-25 22:07:40 +0200hugo-(znc@verdigris.lysator.liu.se)
2023-09-25 22:07:56 +0200nicosm(~nicosm@199.253.243.23)
2023-09-25 22:09:27 +0200Inst_Inst
2023-09-25 22:12:18 +0200_ht(~Thunderbi@28-52-174-82.ftth.glasoperator.nl) (Quit: _ht)
2023-09-25 22:19:58 +0200lortabac(~lortabac@2a01:e0a:541:b8f0:e2bb:b6eb:60f8:7167) (Quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2023-09-25 22:22:05 +0200nicosm(~nicosm@199.253.243.23) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2023-09-25 22:22:50 +0200 <monochrom> Oh w00t GHC 9.6.3
2023-09-25 22:22:55 +0200__monty__(~toonn@user/toonn) (Quit: leaving)
2023-09-25 22:23:27 +0200 <Rembane> It's a time for celebration!
2023-09-25 22:25:34 +0200 <monochrom> And 9.8.1-alpha4 a few days ago. Wait, does "TypeAbstract" mean type-level lambda?!
2023-09-25 22:27:47 +0200 <geekosaur> iirc it's a little short of full type level lambdas
2023-09-25 22:29:21 +0200takuan(~takuan@178-116-218-225.access.telenet.be) (Remote host closed the connection)
2023-09-25 22:31:23 +0200 <haskellbridge> <j​ade> ooo this might be the first release with my (tiny) change(s) in it
2023-09-25 22:31:53 +0200 <mauke> "Improve zonking behavior for defaulting plugins"
2023-09-25 22:36:38 +0200Inst_(~Inst@120.244.192.250)
2023-09-25 22:36:43 +0200Inst(~Inst@120.244.192.250) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2023-09-25 22:37:21 +0200machinedgod(~machinedg@d198-53-218-113.abhsia.telus.net)
2023-09-25 22:37:38 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@ool-44c738de.dyn.optonline.net) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2023-09-25 22:38:09 +0200 <EvanR> blasted skolems and their zonking behavior
2023-09-25 22:38:37 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@ool-44c738de.dyn.optonline.net)
2023-09-25 22:48:52 +0200 <Rembane> I'm trying to build my project in CI using Haskell CI and also using a version of text >= 2.0 and the constraint checker becomes unhappy with me. Can I convince it to use a version of text >= 2.0? https://github.com/dtekcth/mat-chalmers/actions/runs/6304633600/job/17116376838?pr=120 <- some details
2023-09-25 22:51:41 +0200nate2(~nate@c-98-45-169-16.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
2023-09-25 22:52:53 +0200eggplantade(~Eggplanta@2600:1700:38c5:d800:b000:8eef:3ca4:f8cf) (Remote host closed the connection)
2023-09-25 22:52:58 +0200ft(~ft@p3e9bc680.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2023-09-25 22:55:45 +0200 <geekosaur> Rembane, the key error there is "requires installed instance". What version of ghc is this using?
2023-09-25 22:55:49 +0200space100062(~space1000@user/space1000)
2023-09-25 22:56:07 +0200 <geekosaur> because text ships with ghc and apparently is an old version
2023-09-25 22:56:39 +0200nate2(~nate@c-98-45-169-16.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2023-09-25 22:58:02 +0200 <geekosaur> actually, belay that. specifically it says `cabal.project.local` is requiring it
2023-09-25 22:58:10 +0200 <geekosaur> @where paste
2023-09-25 22:58:10 +0200 <lambdabot> Help us help you: please paste full code, input and/or output at e.g. https://paste.tomsmeding.com
2023-09-25 22:58:13 +0200 <Rembane> geekosaur: That's a very good question. GHC 9.0.2. It works on my machine though (lol)
2023-09-25 22:59:21 +0200 <geekosaur> 9.0.2 ships with text 1.2.5.0 indeed
2023-09-25 22:59:42 +0200 <geekosaur> so use the pastebin to show us cabal.project.local
2023-09-25 22:59:50 +0200 <Rembane> Then it's even more fastinating that it works locally.
2023-09-25 23:01:15 +0200 <Rembane> cabal.project.local is generated by the CI script and never printed. I'll take care of that. Momento!
2023-09-25 23:01:34 +0200iteratee(~kyle@162.218.222.207)
2023-09-25 23:01:49 +0200 <geekosaur> then I'd suspect that's why it works locally 🙂
2023-09-25 23:02:56 +0200 <geekosaur> text isn't pinned by cabal so it can be upgraded (there's only a small handful of packages that get pinned by the compiler). but the error says cabal.project.local is pinning it
2023-09-25 23:03:29 +0200 <Rembane> Sweet! I'll upgrade GHC and hopefully it just works after that. :)
2023-09-25 23:03:33 +0200 <Rembane> Thanks for your help!
2023-09-25 23:04:49 +0200qqq(~qqq@92.43.167.61) (Quit: leaving)
2023-09-25 23:08:20 +0200anderson(~anderson@user/anderson) (Remote host closed the connection)
2023-09-25 23:10:26 +0200anderson(~anderson@user/anderson)
2023-09-25 23:11:56 +0200coot(~coot@89-69-206-216.dynamic.chello.pl) (Quit: coot)
2023-09-25 23:17:14 +0200Guest|79(~Guest|79@95.77.136.95.rev.vodafone.pt)
2023-09-25 23:17:26 +0200 <Guest|79> im with some problems installing haskel
2023-09-25 23:17:51 +0200 <Guest|79> [ ghc-configure ] not found (too old?)
2023-09-25 23:17:52 +0200 <Guest|79> [ ghc-configure ] checking for gcc... gcc
2023-09-25 23:17:53 +0200 <Guest|79> [ ghc-configure ] checking whether the C compiler works... no
2023-09-25 23:17:53 +0200 <Guest|79> [ ghc-configure ] configure: error: in `/Users/franciscoguimaraes/.ghcup/tmp/ghcup-15ce9d419add0e91/ghc-9.2.8-aarch64-apple-darwin'...
2023-09-25 23:17:54 +0200 <Guest|79> [ ghc-configure ] configure: error: C compiler cannot create executables
2023-09-25 23:17:54 +0200 <Guest|79> [ ghc-configure ] See `config.log' for more details
2023-09-25 23:17:55 +0200 <Guest|79> [ Error ] [GHCup-00841] Process "sh" with arguments ["./configure",
2023-09-25 23:17:55 +0200 <Guest|79> [ ... ] "--prefix=/Users/franciscoguimaraes/.ghcup/ghc/9.2.8",
2023-09-25 23:17:55 +0200 <Guest|79> [ ... ] "--disable-ld-override"] failed with exit code 77.
2023-09-25 23:17:56 +0200 <Guest|79> [ Error ] Also check the logs in /Users/franciscoguimaraes/.ghcup/logs
2023-09-25 23:17:56 +0200 <Guest|79> "ghcup --metadata-fetching-mode=Strict --cache install ghc recommended" failed!
2023-09-25 23:18:00 +0200 <Guest|79> what should I do
2023-09-25 23:19:13 +0200Inst_(~Inst@120.244.192.250) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2023-09-25 23:20:09 +0200 <erisco> Guest|79, for long pastes, please use something such as gist.github.com so that the conversation is easier to track. It looks like there is a problem with your C compiler. Perhaps check that it works and is up to date?
2023-09-25 23:20:48 +0200 <Guest|79> but how I resolve that problem?
2023-09-25 23:21:13 +0200 <EvanR> @where paste
2023-09-25 23:21:14 +0200 <lambdabot> Help us help you: please paste full code, input and/or output at e.g. https://paste.tomsmeding.com
2023-09-25 23:21:20 +0200Inst_(~Inst@120.244.192.250)
2023-09-25 23:21:34 +0200 <geekosaur> do you have the xcode command line tools installed?
2023-09-25 23:23:11 +0200 <geekosaur> Guest|79 ^^
2023-09-25 23:23:48 +0200 <Guest|79> idk, maybe not, where I install that?
2023-09-25 23:24:34 +0200 <mauke> it says "see config.log for more details" and "check the logs in /Users/franciscoguimaraes/.ghcup/logs". what's in there?
2023-09-25 23:24:50 +0200 <geekosaur> open a terminal and type: xcode-select --install
2023-09-25 23:25:34 +0200 <geekosaur> without that, gcc will be a stub that prints out that the command line tools aren't installed and exits
2023-09-25 23:25:43 +0200eggplantade(~Eggplanta@2600:1700:38c5:d800:b000:8eef:3ca4:f8cf)
2023-09-25 23:25:55 +0200 <mauke> ah
2023-09-25 23:26:25 +0200acidjnk_new(~acidjnk@p200300d6e7072f220823f3242e83abd8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2023-09-25 23:26:57 +0200 <Guest|79> doesn't even exist .ghcup there
2023-09-25 23:26:59 +0200 <Guest|79> :
2023-09-25 23:27:02 +0200 <Guest|79> :/
2023-09-25 23:27:37 +0200 <erisco> geekosaur, seems less helpful than it not being there at all, lol
2023-09-25 23:28:02 +0200michalz(~michalz@185.246.207.197) (Remote host closed the connection)
2023-09-25 23:28:15 +0200 <geekosaur> I think if you7 run it from a command line instead of in a script, it opens a popup which offers to install the CLT
2023-09-25 23:28:25 +0200 <geekosaur> but uit's been a while
2023-09-25 23:28:36 +0200johnw(~johnw@69.62.242.138) (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in)
2023-09-25 23:29:59 +0200 <Guest|79> im installing rn Xcode command line tools, maybe was that
2023-09-25 23:32:13 +0200space100062(~space1000@user/space1000) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2023-09-25 23:36:29 +0200 <Guest|79> thanks, it results
2023-09-25 23:36:30 +0200 <Guest|79> :)
2023-09-25 23:36:35 +0200Guest|79(~Guest|79@95.77.136.95.rev.vodafone.pt) (Quit: Connection closed)
2023-09-25 23:37:48 +0200yoyofreeman(~yoyofreem@176.97.76.178) (Remote host closed the connection)
2023-09-25 23:38:44 +0200eggplantade(~Eggplanta@2600:1700:38c5:d800:b000:8eef:3ca4:f8cf) (Remote host closed the connection)
2023-09-25 23:39:00 +0200eggplantade(~Eggplanta@104-55-37-220.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
2023-09-25 23:48:11 +0200nicosm(~nicosm@186.141.199.185)
2023-09-25 23:52:05 +0200misterfish(~misterfis@84-53-85-146.bbserv.nl) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2023-09-25 23:56:45 +0200 <mauke> https://infosec.exchange/@barubary/111127550316585383
2023-09-25 23:56:46 +0200phma(phma@2001:5b0:210f:7ad8:cf80:dd9b:ec34:9d9) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2023-09-25 23:56:53 +0200eggplantade(~Eggplanta@104-55-37-220.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2023-09-25 23:57:08 +0200eggplantade(~Eggplanta@2600:1700:38c5:d800:b000:8eef:3ca4:f8cf)
2023-09-25 23:57:10 +0200phma(phma@2001:5b0:210f:7ad8:cf80:dd9b:ec34:9d9)
2023-09-25 23:59:45 +0200 <c_wraith> so... yet another reason to not use that extension.
2023-09-25 23:59:51 +0200 <erisco> That is left field for me. Never worked with that extension before!