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| 2023-09-14 02:42:50 +0200 | <Inst> | is it imperative that I handle all possible exceptions generated by a readFile action? |
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| 2023-09-14 02:48:21 +0200 | Sciencentistguy9 | (~sciencent@hacksoc/ordinary-member) |
| 2023-09-14 02:48:29 +0200 | <Inst> | probably it's just better to propagate IO errors via the IO exception type |
| 2023-09-14 02:50:02 +0200 | Sciencentistguy | (~sciencent@hacksoc/ordinary-member) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
| 2023-09-14 02:50:02 +0200 | Sciencentistguy9 | Sciencentistguy |
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| 2023-09-14 03:02:06 +0200 | samhh_ | samhh |
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| 2023-09-14 03:31:19 +0200 | finn_elija | (~finn_elij@user/finn-elija/x-0085643) |
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| 2023-09-14 03:31:19 +0200 | finn_elija | FinnElija |
| 2023-09-14 03:35:29 +0200 | <monochrom> | It is imperative programming to handle exceptions. >:) |
| 2023-09-14 03:43:16 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@088-129-128-083.dynamic.caiway.nl) |
| 2023-09-14 03:43:19 +0200 | <MelanieMalik> | dragons |
| 2023-09-14 03:44:54 +0200 | otto_s | (~user@p4ff27130.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2023-09-14 03:45:10 +0200 | <monochrom> | https://www.vex.net/~trebla/photo/unorganized/dragon.jpg :) |
| 2023-09-14 03:45:52 +0200 | <int-e> | :t interact |
| 2023-09-14 03:45:53 +0200 | <lambdabot> | (String -> String) -> IO () |
| 2023-09-14 03:46:56 +0200 | otto_s | (~user@p4ff27db5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 2023-09-14 03:49:03 +0200 | caryhartline | (~caryhartl@168.182.58.169) |
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| 2023-09-14 03:51:05 +0200 | wagle | (~wagle@quassel.wagle.io) |
| 2023-09-14 03:54:01 +0200 | <Axman6> | Anyone have a good reference for how to implement showsPrec for a fairly standard numerical expression ADT? |
| 2023-09-14 03:55:40 +0200 | <Axman6> | data type is: data E = Num Int | Var VarName | Index | Add E E | Mul E E | Sub E E | Neg E, so very simple, with Index just mapping to the string "index" |
| 2023-09-14 03:58:49 +0200 | <Axman6> | I guess I could steal a lot of that from simple-reflect |
| 2023-09-14 04:02:06 +0200 | ChaiTRex | (~ChaiTRex@user/chaitrex) |
| 2023-09-14 04:02:44 +0200 | haritzondo | (~hrtz@82-69-11-11.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk) |
| 2023-09-14 04:03:26 +0200 | haritz | (~hrtz@user/haritz) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2023-09-14 04:05:29 +0200 | <int-e> | Axman6: FWIW, the intended meaning of the precedence can be found in the Haskell report. https://www.haskell.org/onlinereport/derived.html#sect10.4 |
| 2023-09-14 04:07:08 +0200 | <Axman6> | great, thanks |
| 2023-09-14 04:10:08 +0200 | notzmv | (~zmv@user/notzmv) |
| 2023-09-14 04:12:00 +0200 | <[Leary]> | `deriving Show` + -ddump-deriv? |
| 2023-09-14 04:13:34 +0200 | <Axman6> | That might help if I used infix constructors I guess |
| 2023-09-14 04:17:06 +0200 | <Axman6> | not sure how to handle negation - showsIndexExprCPP p (Neg e) = showString "-" . showsIndexExprCPP (p+1) e, which seems to work, but I have no idea if it's actually correct |
| 2023-09-14 04:17:24 +0200 | <Axman6> | also p never decreases |
| 2023-09-14 04:17:24 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@088-129-128-083.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
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| 2023-09-14 04:19:31 +0200 | <Axman6> | definitely going to need to make a parser for this type at some point too -_- |
| 2023-09-14 04:23:28 +0200 | [itchyjunk] | (~itchyjunk@user/itchyjunk/x-7353470) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2023-09-14 04:25:28 +0200 | Axman6 | could just make negate x = 0 - x ... |
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| 2023-09-14 04:33:23 +0200 | ChaiTRex | (~ChaiTRex@user/chaitrex) |
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| 2023-09-14 04:42:46 +0200 | FinnElija | (~finn_elij@user/finn-elija/x-0085643) |
| 2023-09-14 04:43:40 +0200 | <Inst> | Axman6: no harsh feelings with anything you might have said, if I say stupid things or behave stupidly, I should expect to get a negative response |
| 2023-09-14 04:45:31 +0200 | td_ | (~td@i5387093F.versanet.de) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2023-09-14 04:46:04 +0200 | <Inst> | monochrom: well, the original plan was to cast every exception constructor that could be anticipated to my own type |
| 2023-09-14 04:47:13 +0200 | td_ | (~td@i5387091B.versanet.de) |
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| 2023-09-14 05:14:50 +0200 | xff0x | (~xff0x@125x103x176x34.ap125.ftth.ucom.ne.jp) |
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| 2023-09-14 05:29:47 +0200 | <jackdk> | Axman6: Best I know of is https://www.haskellforall.com/2020/11/pretty-print-syntax-trees-with-this-one.html ; if you find other good answers, do let me know |
| 2023-09-14 05:30:06 +0200 | vglfr | (~vglfr@cli-188-239-201-89.bbn.slav.dn.ua) |
| 2023-09-14 05:31:45 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@088-129-128-083.dynamic.caiway.nl) |
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| 2023-09-14 05:36:30 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@088-129-128-083.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2023-09-14 05:41:50 +0200 | caryhartline | (~caryhartl@168.182.58.169) |
| 2023-09-14 05:45:14 +0200 | privacy | (~privacy@47.219.84.6) |
| 2023-09-14 05:45:27 +0200 | finn_elija | (~finn_elij@user/finn-elija/x-0085643) |
| 2023-09-14 05:45:27 +0200 | FinnElija | (~finn_elij@user/finn-elija/x-0085643) (Killed (NickServ (Forcing logout FinnElija -> finn_elija))) |
| 2023-09-14 05:45:27 +0200 | finn_elija | FinnElija |
| 2023-09-14 05:51:25 +0200 | caryhartline | (~caryhartl@168.182.58.169) (Quit: caryhartline) |
| 2023-09-14 05:56:22 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <tewuzij> Can I use brackets and commas than spaces? |
| 2023-09-14 05:58:40 +0200 | <monochrom> | No. |
| 2023-09-14 06:03:44 +0200 | <EvanR> | :t "(), " |
| 2023-09-14 06:03:45 +0200 | <lambdabot> | [Char] |
| 2023-09-14 06:04:06 +0200 | Sciencentistguy3 | (~sciencent@hacksoc/ordinary-member) |
| 2023-09-14 06:04:08 +0200 | <EvanR> | Yes |
| 2023-09-14 06:05:15 +0200 | privacy | (~privacy@47.219.84.6) (Quit: Leaving) |
| 2023-09-14 06:05:29 +0200 | jargon | (~jargon@184.101.67.95) |
| 2023-09-14 06:05:39 +0200 | Sciencentistguy | (~sciencent@hacksoc/ordinary-member) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2023-09-14 06:05:39 +0200 | Sciencentistguy3 | Sciencentistguy |
| 2023-09-14 06:05:59 +0200 | privacy | (~privacy@47.219.84.6) |
| 2023-09-14 06:06:14 +0200 | <institor> | :t ((,) ,) |
| 2023-09-14 06:06:15 +0200 | <lambdabot> | t -> (a -> b -> (a, b), t) |
| 2023-09-14 06:06:33 +0200 | _ht | (~Thunderbi@28-52-174-82.ftth.glasoperator.nl) |
| 2023-09-14 06:07:28 +0200 | aaronv | (~aaronv@user/aaronv) |
| 2023-09-14 06:08:13 +0200 | michalz | (~michalz@185.246.207.217) |
| 2023-09-14 06:08:57 +0200 | <EvanR> | touché |
| 2023-09-14 06:13:23 +0200 | <Axman6> | > map(show)([1..10]) -- you can however use spaces and brackets |
| 2023-09-14 06:13:24 +0200 | <lambdabot> | ["1","2","3","4","5","6","7","8","9","10"] |
| 2023-09-14 06:17:33 +0200 | aaronv | (~aaronv@user/aaronv) (Remote host closed the connection) |
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| 2023-09-14 06:44:00 +0200 | Hobbyboy | (Hobbyboy@hobbyboy.co.uk) (Server closed connection) |
| 2023-09-14 06:44:15 +0200 | Hobbyboy | (Hobbyboy@hobbyboy.co.uk) |
| 2023-09-14 06:44:59 +0200 | bitdex | (~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex) |
| 2023-09-14 06:45:30 +0200 | danza_ | (~francesco@151.37.236.99) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2023-09-14 06:45:48 +0200 | nate2 | (~nate@c-98-45-169-16.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2023-09-14 06:46:17 +0200 | danza_ | (~francesco@151.19.246.34) |
| 2023-09-14 06:52:47 +0200 | <Inst> | okay, you know how bad Haskell via Pacman is? |
| 2023-09-14 06:52:54 +0200 | <Inst> | it turns out that if you install agda, it corrupts GHCup |
| 2023-09-14 06:53:07 +0200 | <Inst> | or rather, it corrupts Cabal, which for whatever reason all of a sudden wants to use the 9.0.2 that comes with agda |
| 2023-09-14 06:57:10 +0200 | aaronv | (~aaronv@user/aaronv) (Remote host closed the connection) |
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| 2023-09-14 06:57:30 +0200 | aaronv | (~aaronv@user/aaronv) |
| 2023-09-14 07:01:22 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@088-129-128-083.dynamic.caiway.nl) |
| 2023-09-14 07:03:05 +0200 | CiaoSen | (~Jura@2a05:5800:2b2:5a00:664b:f0ff:fe37:9ef) |
| 2023-09-14 07:07:56 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <maerwald> That sounds like a PATH issue |
| 2023-09-14 07:07:57 +0200 | <Axman6> | Yeah don't use system package managers for Haskell, it's not worth it. I would guess the same's true for Idris |
| 2023-09-14 07:08:18 +0200 | chomwitt | (~chomwitt@2a02:587:7a15:5600:1ac0:4dff:fedb:a3f1) |
| 2023-09-14 07:10:22 +0200 | caryhartline | (~caryhartl@168.182.58.169) |
| 2023-09-14 07:16:36 +0200 | glider | (~glider@user/glider) |
| 2023-09-14 07:17:57 +0200 | chomwitt | (~chomwitt@2a02:587:7a15:5600:1ac0:4dff:fedb:a3f1) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
| 2023-09-14 07:20:50 +0200 | chomwitt | (~chomwitt@2a02:587:7a15:5600:1ac0:4dff:fedb:a3f1) |
| 2023-09-14 07:24:01 +0200 | Inst | (~Inst@120.244.192.250) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2023-09-14 07:24:31 +0200 | Inst | (~Inst@120.244.192.250) |
| 2023-09-14 07:28:56 +0200 | <Inst> | Axman6 no, I mean, I know that pacman goes TERRIBLY with Haskell |
| 2023-09-14 07:29:18 +0200 | <Inst> | but Agda is a separate language, it just happens to use Haskell as a compiler |
| 2023-09-14 07:34:45 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@088-129-128-083.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
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| 2023-09-14 09:37:01 +0200 | aaronv | (~aaronv@user/aaronv) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
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| 2023-09-14 09:41:40 +0200 | schweers | (~user@p200300e57723860073a75a2a83d5f435.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 2023-09-14 09:43:18 +0200 | <Inst> | btw tomssmeding, any suggestions for what to do next? |
| 2023-09-14 09:43:21 +0200 | lisbeths | (uid135845@id-135845.lymington.irccloud.com) |
| 2023-09-14 09:43:30 +0200 | <Inst> | My lib is hot garbage, every time I look at it, I get disgusted because I feel like the architecture is terrible |
| 2023-09-14 09:43:35 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | using ghc from pacman is quite possible, you "just" have to pass -dynamic to ghc always iirc |
| 2023-09-14 09:43:46 +0200 | <Inst> | I just cabal installed and called it a day |
| 2023-09-14 09:43:49 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | but you have to choose between arch's ghc and pacman's ghc, otherwise you'll get confused |
| 2023-09-14 09:44:06 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | afaiu the system can handle two simultaneously installed ghc's just fine, given the correct PATH setup |
| 2023-09-14 09:44:14 +0200 | <Inst> | should I try to publish my hot garbage lib to hackage? The name literally says "alpha" though |
| 2023-09-14 09:44:41 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | put it on github, add an entry to the haskell weekly news, and wait for feedback |
| 2023-09-14 09:45:16 +0200 | <Inst> | hmmm, okay, and I can use cabal to link to the github package for my other project that I need |
| 2023-09-14 09:45:42 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | yeah |
| 2023-09-14 09:45:49 +0200 | coot | (~coot@89-69-206-216.dynamic.chello.pl) |
| 2023-09-14 09:45:50 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | cabal.project |
| 2023-09-14 09:46:00 +0200 | <schweers> | Hi, I have a (hopefully) quick question: I have a new stack project and I want to use HDBC and HDBC-postgresql. Adding HDBC to `package.yaml` works fine and I can `import HDBC` in my sources. Yet I have no idea how to add HDBC-postgresql. According to the user guide I need `extra-deps`, but this doesn’t work. Stack complains that the field `S.extra-deps` is unknown. For what it’s worth, I installed everything |
| 2023-09-14 09:46:00 +0200 | <schweers> | using `ghcup`. |
| 2023-09-14 09:47:37 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | schweers: post your full package.yaml and stack.yaml? |
| 2023-09-14 09:47:39 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | @where paste |
| 2023-09-14 09:47:39 +0200 | <lambdabot> | Help us help you: please paste full code, input and/or output at e.g. https://paste.tomsmeding.com |
| 2023-09-14 09:48:22 +0200 | <schweers> | sure: package.yaml: https://paste.tomsmeding.com/vduFAqeu |
| 2023-09-14 09:48:49 +0200 | <schweers> | stack.yaml: https://paste.tomsmeding.com/EUygkp5U |
| 2023-09-14 09:49:33 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | schweers: try putting the 'extra-deps: - ...' block in stack.yaml instead |
| 2023-09-14 09:49:36 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | I believe it goes there |
| 2023-09-14 09:49:37 +0200 | <schweers> | Unless I made a mistake, stack.yaml should still be the the original. |
| 2023-09-14 09:49:51 +0200 | <schweers> | tomsmeding: I’ll try, give me a sec |
| 2023-09-14 09:50:02 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | schweers: I think you made a mistake _because_ it's still the original ;) |
| 2023-09-14 09:50:46 +0200 | <schweers> | I feel really stupid right now. I’m sure that I tried that as well, but only got complaints from stack. Now it works. Thank you so much! |
| 2023-09-14 09:50:59 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | glad it worked :) |
| 2023-09-14 09:51:49 +0200 | <schweers> | So am I! |
| 2023-09-14 09:52:10 +0200 | <Inst> | i'm wondering though, is a self-hosting installer for Haskell a good or bad idea? |
| 2023-09-14 09:52:20 +0200 | econo_ | (uid147250@id-147250.tinside.irccloud.com) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) |
| 2023-09-14 09:52:22 +0200 | <schweers> | On a related note: is HDBC-postgres the/a recommended library to use to connect to a Postgres Database? |
| 2023-09-14 09:52:29 +0200 | <Inst> | erm, installer framework, rather |
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| 2023-09-14 13:22:29 +0200 | puke | (~puke@user/puke) (Killed (osmium.libera.chat (Nickname regained by services))) |
| 2023-09-14 13:22:29 +0200 | pyooque | puke |
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| 2023-09-14 13:33:00 +0200 | pounce | (~pounce@user/cute/pounce) |
| 2023-09-14 13:33:23 +0200 | <dminuoso> | Hi. Im a bit at a loss. Im fiddling around with nano-cryptr, which does foreign import ccall safe "crypt_r" crypt_r :: CString-> CString -> Ptr CDOpaque -> IO CString |
| 2023-09-14 13:33:54 +0200 | ystael | (~ystael@user/ystael) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2023-09-14 13:33:55 +0200 | <dminuoso> | However, Im on macOS and I cant quite figure out what macho objects this is resolved from ultimately |
| 2023-09-14 13:34:13 +0200 | <dminuoso> | i.e. how can I figure out which library this is resolved from? |
| 2023-09-14 13:36:10 +0200 | <jackdk> | schweers: I like hasql. If you need a big, heavy, type-safe hammer, opaleye is awesome but has more of a learning curve. Unsure of others (rel8, selda, etc). Never got my head around beam. If you want something really simple, postgresql-simple is that. |
| 2023-09-14 13:38:02 +0200 | <dminuoso> | postgresql-simple has a rather questional "self-made" query parameter interpolation logic, sadly, however. |
| 2023-09-14 13:38:17 +0200 | <dminuoso> | Which is a real bummer considering libpq has first class support for this. |
| 2023-09-14 13:38:50 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <mauke> safeErce :: (a ~ b) => b -> a |
| 2023-09-14 13:38:53 +0200 | <dminuoso> | hasql gets this one right, and it uses binary de/serialization too (postgresql-simple only uses text encoding). for various workloads that makes a tremendous performance difference |
| 2023-09-14 13:39:10 +0200 | __monty__ | (~toonn@user/toonn) |
| 2023-09-14 13:44:16 +0200 | gmg_ | (~user@user/gehmehgeh) |
| 2023-09-14 13:45:32 +0200 | <schweers> | jackdk: Thanks, I’ll have a look at those, especially opaleye. |
| 2023-09-14 13:46:09 +0200 | gehmehgeh | (~user@user/gehmehgeh) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2023-09-14 13:49:30 +0200 | <jackdk> | yeah I like hasql's use of the binary protocol, as well as its ability to annotate query strings with types denoting their parameters. That's why I'd say opaleye pays off if you really need the safety and the ability to stitch queries together |
| 2023-09-14 13:50:29 +0200 | <danse-nr3> | cannot hasql do that? Seems quite a common use case |
| 2023-09-14 13:51:18 +0200 | <danse-nr3> | but from what you say it seems that hasql is less type-safe, that is more interesting |
| 2023-09-14 13:51:29 +0200 | <dminuoso> | danse-nr3: No, hasql is not about query building. |
| 2023-09-14 13:51:55 +0200 | <dminuoso> | It just gives you some tools to stich sort of parameter decoder/encoder together with queries. |
| 2023-09-14 13:52:07 +0200 | <danse-nr3> | i see, thanks dminuoso |
| 2023-09-14 13:52:28 +0200 | <dminuoso> | well and a lot of small combinators, like TH syntax validation of your queries if you want it. |
| 2023-09-14 13:52:36 +0200 | <jackdk> | https://hackage.haskell.org/package/hasql-1.6.3.2/docs/Hasql-Statement.html#t:Statement this constructor just wraps a ByteString with additional information and codecs, but you can't bolt statements together. I do like its use of contravariant functors |
| 2023-09-14 13:53:16 +0200 | <dminuoso> | my biggest convern with postgresql-simple is really the "home-made" query interpolation, really. |
| 2023-09-14 13:54:15 +0200 | <dminuoso> | I have more trust in libpq getting this right, than some convoluted haskell code that likely was written once, and never looked at by anyone else. |
| 2023-09-14 13:54:23 +0200 | <dminuoso> | but thats just grumpy me. |
| 2023-09-14 13:55:19 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@088-129-128-083.dynamic.caiway.nl) |
| 2023-09-14 13:55:49 +0200 | <danse-nr3> | i recall studying relational algebra, but i am not aware of any haskell lib that is based on it |
| 2023-09-14 13:56:32 +0200 | <danse-nr3> | it would probably be more effort on top of building the compatibility layer |
| 2023-09-14 13:57:36 +0200 | <danse-nr3> | but could aid a neat design |
| 2023-09-14 13:58:44 +0200 | privacy | (~privacy@47.219.84.6) |
| 2023-09-14 14:10:19 +0200 | lisbeths | (uid135845@id-135845.lymington.irccloud.com) |
| 2023-09-14 14:11:06 +0200 | <dminuoso> | There is a bunch of relational algebra libraries |
| 2023-09-14 14:11:09 +0200 | <dminuoso> | https://github.com/agentm/project-m36 is one of them |
| 2023-09-14 14:11:47 +0200 | <dminuoso> | Nowadays, I think I really just want a django-esque relational mapper but for Haskell. Without any type tricks. |
| 2023-09-14 14:11:50 +0200 | <dminuoso> | Just pure, dumb, dynamic things. |
| 2023-09-14 14:14:26 +0200 | <danse-nr3> | nice, i will check project-m36 out, thanks. Dynamic things? Having a type for a table is already a lot of type safety, to help with marshalling and querying |
| 2023-09-14 14:15:04 +0200 | <danse-nr3> | i guess that does not need the less known type-level features |
| 2023-09-14 14:16:13 +0200 | <danse-nr3> | anyways, for practicality, if i would write an app nowadays i would base it upon postgrest. Saves even more boilerplate |
| 2023-09-14 14:16:56 +0200 | haritzondo | haritz |
| 2023-09-14 14:16:56 +0200 | haritz | (~hrtz@82-69-11-11.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk) (Changing host) |
| 2023-09-14 14:16:56 +0200 | haritz | (~hrtz@user/haritz) |
| 2023-09-14 14:19:15 +0200 | <danse-nr3> | oh m36 is not a shim, it is a database |
| 2023-09-14 14:20:24 +0200 | adanwan | (~adanwan@gateway/tor-sasl/adanwan) (Quit: _) |
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| 2023-09-14 14:56:56 +0200 | danse-nr3 | (~francesco@151.35.231.127) |
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| 2023-09-14 15:13:52 +0200 | <dminuoso> | danse-nr3: There are things where bolting on type system just adds so much inconvenience with a complicated and verbose, and slow, API, all at the cost of perceived stability. |
| 2023-09-14 15:14:47 +0200 | Ellenor | (ellenor@callbox.trd.is) |
| 2023-09-14 15:15:18 +0200 | <dminuoso> | The reality is, when you build SQL queries, you *very* likely will try them out rapidly anyway, to see whether your SQL is expressed correctly. |
| 2023-09-14 15:17:11 +0200 | Carbon-lang | (~Carbonlan@ip121.ip-149-56-160.net) |
| 2023-09-14 15:17:19 +0200 | <danse-nr3> | maybe having a type for a table and using it for querying is more complex than i imagine |
| 2023-09-14 15:17:28 +0200 | acidjnk | (~acidjnk@p200300d6e7072f94d84002b8d460e75b.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2023-09-14 15:20:25 +0200 | lortabac | (~lortabac@2a01:e0a:541:b8f0:1dda:7f6d:8801:7a7b) (Quit: WeeChat 2.8) |
| 2023-09-14 15:20:37 +0200 | <dminuoso> | Honestly, 'query :: Typeable a => Connection -> String -> IO [a]' is all I really want. |
| 2023-09-14 15:21:17 +0200 | <dminuoso> | There could be some additional glue, where the database code is made aware of some kind of table <> type mapping, such that diagnotics work nicely |
| 2023-09-14 15:22:07 +0200 | <dminuoso> | The sort of django model.py equivalent. |
| 2023-09-14 15:25:55 +0200 | lortabac | (~lortabac@2a01:e0a:541:b8f0:1dda:7f6d:8801:7a7b) |
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| 2023-09-14 15:42:18 +0200 | <fendor> | dminuoso, I suppose you do want an API that enforces the usage of prepared statements |
| 2023-09-14 15:42:48 +0200 | Carbon-lang | (~Carbonlan@ip121.ip-149-56-160.net) |
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| 2023-09-14 16:29:15 +0200 | califax_ | califax |
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| 2023-09-14 16:52:59 +0200 | Tuplanolla | (~Tuplanoll@91-159-68-236.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 2023-09-14 16:54:04 +0200 | <samlamamma> | Hi :-). Dumb question: Is the 'diamond problem' from multiple inheritance possible in Haskell's type classes? I'd think no, since we can't provide or override implementations in the type classes themselves. |
| 2023-09-14 16:54:59 +0200 | <danse-nr3> | i agree |
| 2023-09-14 16:55:00 +0200 | Square | (~Square@user/square) |
| 2023-09-14 16:55:40 +0200 | <EvanR> | there's no inheritance so you can't have multiple inheritance |
| 2023-09-14 16:56:19 +0200 | <samlamamma> | What about class (Foo f, Bar f) => Baz f where ... ? |
| 2023-09-14 16:56:36 +0200 | aspen | (sid449115@helmsley.irccloud.com) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2023-09-14 16:56:44 +0200 | jackdk | (sid373013@cssa/jackdk) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
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| 2023-09-14 16:56:46 +0200 | <samlamamma> | EvanR: What would you call that :-)? |
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| 2023-09-14 16:57:03 +0200 | <EvanR> | additional constraint on a class |
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| 2023-09-14 16:57:07 +0200 | iphy | (sid67735@id-67735.lymington.irccloud.com) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) |
| 2023-09-14 16:57:08 +0200 | skippy | (sid26890@user/slice) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2023-09-14 16:57:09 +0200 | SrPx | (sid108780@id-108780.uxbridge.irccloud.com) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 2023-09-14 16:57:14 +0200 | <danse-nr3> | as you said samlamamma, implementations are not provided in the classes, so there is no inheritance |
| 2023-09-14 16:57:16 +0200 | hongminhee | (sid295@id-295.tinside.irccloud.com) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 2023-09-14 16:57:17 +0200 | integral | (sid296274@user/integral) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 2023-09-14 16:57:17 +0200 | parseval | (sid239098@id-239098.helmsley.irccloud.com) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 2023-09-14 16:57:17 +0200 | bw_ | (sid2730@id-2730.ilkley.irccloud.com) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 2023-09-14 16:57:17 +0200 | tritlo_ | (sid58727@id-58727.hampstead.irccloud.com) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 2023-09-14 16:57:18 +0200 | NiKaN | (sid385034@id-385034.helmsley.irccloud.com) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2023-09-14 16:57:23 +0200 | agander_m | (sid407952@id-407952.tinside.irccloud.com) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
| 2023-09-14 16:57:23 +0200 | jakesyl____ | (sid56879@id-56879.hampstead.irccloud.com) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
| 2023-09-14 16:57:23 +0200 | sclv | (sid39734@haskell/developer/sclv) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) |
| 2023-09-14 16:57:23 +0200 | chessai | (sid225296@id-225296.lymington.irccloud.com) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2023-09-14 16:57:24 +0200 | delyan_ | (sid523379@id-523379.hampstead.irccloud.com) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2023-09-14 16:57:24 +0200 | dy | (sid3438@user/dy) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2023-09-14 16:57:24 +0200 | shawwwn | (sid6132@id-6132.helmsley.irccloud.com) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2023-09-14 16:57:30 +0200 | meinside | (uid24933@id-24933.helmsley.irccloud.com) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) |
| 2023-09-14 16:57:32 +0200 | b20n | (sid115913@id-115913.uxbridge.irccloud.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2023-09-14 16:57:32 +0200 | pepeiborra | (sid443799@id-443799.ilkley.irccloud.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2023-09-14 16:57:32 +0200 | jonrh | (sid5185@id-5185.ilkley.irccloud.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2023-09-14 16:57:32 +0200 | rune_ | (sid21167@id-21167.ilkley.irccloud.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2023-09-14 16:57:32 +0200 | edwardk | (sid47016@haskell/developer/edwardk) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2023-09-14 16:57:32 +0200 | S11001001 | (sid42510@id-42510.ilkley.irccloud.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2023-09-14 16:57:32 +0200 | mustafa | (sid502723@rockylinux/releng/mustafa) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2023-09-14 16:57:32 +0200 | lexi-lambda | (sid92601@id-92601.hampstead.irccloud.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2023-09-14 16:57:32 +0200 | evertedsphere | (sid434122@id-434122.hampstead.irccloud.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2023-09-14 16:57:32 +0200 | amir | (sid22336@user/amir) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2023-09-14 16:57:32 +0200 | hamishmack | (sid389057@id-389057.hampstead.irccloud.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2023-09-14 16:57:33 +0200 | glowcoil | (sid3405@id-3405.tinside.irccloud.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2023-09-14 16:57:33 +0200 | NemesisD | (sid24071@id-24071.lymington.irccloud.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2023-09-14 16:57:33 +0200 | hovsater | (sid499516@id-499516.lymington.irccloud.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2023-09-14 16:57:33 +0200 | jmct | (sid160793@id-160793.tinside.irccloud.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2023-09-14 16:57:33 +0200 | idnar | (sid12240@debian/mithrandi) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2023-09-14 16:57:33 +0200 | degraafk | (sid71464@id-71464.lymington.irccloud.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2023-09-14 16:57:33 +0200 | geekosaur[c] | (sid609282@xmonad/geekosaur) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2023-09-14 16:57:34 +0200 | AndreasK | (sid320732@id-320732.uxbridge.irccloud.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2023-09-14 16:57:34 +0200 | lally | (sid388228@id-388228.uxbridge.irccloud.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2023-09-14 16:57:34 +0200 | systemfault | (sid267009@about/typescript/member/systemfault) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2023-09-14 16:57:34 +0200 | T_S____ | (sid501726@id-501726.uxbridge.irccloud.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2023-09-14 16:57:34 +0200 | bradparker | (sid262931@id-262931.uxbridge.irccloud.com) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2023-09-14 16:57:34 +0200 | tnks | (sid412124@id-412124.helmsley.irccloud.com) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2023-09-14 16:57:34 +0200 | sa1 | (sid7690@id-7690.ilkley.irccloud.com) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 2023-09-14 16:57:35 +0200 | JSharp | (sid4580@id-4580.lymington.irccloud.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2023-09-14 16:57:36 +0200 | taktoa[c] | (sid282096@id-282096.tinside.irccloud.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2023-09-14 16:57:36 +0200 | astra | (sid289983@id-289983.hampstead.irccloud.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2023-09-14 16:57:36 +0200 | cbarrett | (sid192934@id-192934.helmsley.irccloud.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2023-09-14 16:57:36 +0200 | Fangs | (sid141280@id-141280.hampstead.irccloud.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2023-09-14 16:57:37 +0200 | PotatoGim | (sid99505@id-99505.lymington.irccloud.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2023-09-14 16:57:37 +0200 | yvan-sraka | (sid419690@id-419690.lymington.irccloud.com) (Write error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2023-09-14 16:57:37 +0200 | buhman | (sid411355@user/buhman) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2023-09-14 16:57:38 +0200 | davetapley | (sid666@2a03:5180:f:5::29a) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2023-09-14 16:57:38 +0200 | totbwf | (sid402332@id-402332.uxbridge.irccloud.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2023-09-14 16:57:38 +0200 | wallymathieu | (sid533252@id-533252.uxbridge.irccloud.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2023-09-14 16:57:38 +0200 | ysh____ | (sid6017@id-6017.ilkley.irccloud.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2023-09-14 16:57:38 +0200 | SethTisue | (sid14912@id-14912.ilkley.irccloud.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2023-09-14 16:57:38 +0200 | ProofTechnique_ | (sid79547@id-79547.ilkley.irccloud.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2023-09-14 16:57:38 +0200 | haasn | (sid579015@id-579015.hampstead.irccloud.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2023-09-14 16:57:39 +0200 | dmj` | (sid72307@id-72307.hampstead.irccloud.com) (Write error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2023-09-14 16:57:39 +0200 | conjunctive | (sid433686@id-433686.helmsley.irccloud.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2023-09-14 16:57:39 +0200 | carter | (sid14827@id-14827.helmsley.irccloud.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2023-09-14 16:57:39 +0200 | yandere | (sid467876@id-467876.ilkley.irccloud.com) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2023-09-14 16:57:39 +0200 | Boarders___ | (sid425905@id-425905.lymington.irccloud.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2023-09-14 16:57:39 +0200 | nrr______ | (sid20938@id-20938.lymington.irccloud.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2023-09-14 16:57:40 +0200 | edm | (sid147314@id-147314.hampstead.irccloud.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2023-09-14 16:57:40 +0200 | SanchayanMaity | (sid478177@id-478177.hampstead.irccloud.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2023-09-14 16:57:45 +0200 | <danse-nr3> | so many people quitting ... some network disruption going on ... |
| 2023-09-14 16:57:46 +0200 | edmundnoble_ | (sid229620@id-229620.helmsley.irccloud.com) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) |
| 2023-09-14 16:57:52 +0200 | <EvanR> | I detect a great split in the net |
| 2023-09-14 16:57:54 +0200 | <samlamamma> | So it's not just me! |
| 2023-09-14 16:57:54 +0200 | Carbon-lang | (~Carbonlan@ip121.ip-149-56-160.net) |
| 2023-09-14 16:58:00 +0200 | mankyKitty | (sid31287@id-31287.helmsley.irccloud.com) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2023-09-14 16:58:08 +0200 | aspen | (sid449115@helmsley.irccloud.com) |
| 2023-09-14 16:58:08 +0200 | <Square> | You can have implementation in classes iirc |
| 2023-09-14 16:58:12 +0200 | <EvanR> | Like a 1000 connections were just suddenly reset by peer |
| 2023-09-14 16:58:21 +0200 | Guest3051 | (sid1055@id-1055.tinside.irccloud.com) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2023-09-14 16:58:21 +0200 | <samlamamma> | Alright, I accept what you're saying. That makes sense, inheritance is the borrowing of concrete implementation. |
| 2023-09-14 16:58:24 +0200 | alinab | (sid468903@id-468903.helmsley.irccloud.com) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 2023-09-14 16:58:24 +0200 | christiaanb | (sid84827@id-84827.lymington.irccloud.com) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 2023-09-14 16:58:32 +0200 | Adeon | (sid418992@id-418992.lymington.irccloud.com) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) |
| 2023-09-14 16:58:35 +0200 | schweers | (~user@p200300e57723860073a75a2a83d5f435.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2023-09-14 16:58:40 +0200 | ggranberry | (sid267884@id-267884.uxbridge.irccloud.com) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2023-09-14 16:58:42 +0200 | lightandlight | (sid135476@id-135476.helmsley.irccloud.com) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2023-09-14 16:58:59 +0200 | mankyKitty | (sid31287@helmsley.irccloud.com) |
| 2023-09-14 16:59:02 +0200 | jmct | (sid160793@tinside.irccloud.com) |
| 2023-09-14 16:59:03 +0200 | edwardk | (sid47016@haskell/developer/edwardk) |
| 2023-09-14 16:59:04 +0200 | evertedsphere | (sid434122@hampstead.irccloud.com) |
| 2023-09-14 16:59:04 +0200 | pepeiborra | (sid443799@ilkley.irccloud.com) |
| 2023-09-14 16:59:04 +0200 | <danse-nr3> | yeah there can be default implementations |
| 2023-09-14 16:59:04 +0200 | pjlsergeant__ | (sid143467@hampstead.irccloud.com) |
| 2023-09-14 16:59:06 +0200 | amir | (sid22336@user/amir) |
| 2023-09-14 16:59:07 +0200 | S11001001 | (sid42510@ilkley.irccloud.com) |
| 2023-09-14 16:59:12 +0200 | g00gler | (uid125351@uxbridge.irccloud.com) |
| 2023-09-14 16:59:12 +0200 | geekosaur[c] | (sid609282@xmonad/geekosaur) |
| 2023-09-14 16:59:13 +0200 | ggranberry | (sid267884@id-267884.uxbridge.irccloud.com) |
| 2023-09-14 16:59:13 +0200 | glowcoil | (sid3405@id-3405.tinside.irccloud.com) |
| 2023-09-14 16:59:14 +0200 | wallymathieu | (sid533252@uxbridge.irccloud.com) |
| 2023-09-14 16:59:15 +0200 | bradparker | (sid262931@id-262931.uxbridge.irccloud.com) |
| 2023-09-14 16:59:17 +0200 | buhman | (sid411355@user/buhman) |
| 2023-09-14 16:59:18 +0200 | jonrh | (sid5185@id-5185.ilkley.irccloud.com) |
| 2023-09-14 16:59:20 +0200 | parseval | (sid239098@id-239098.helmsley.irccloud.com) |
| 2023-09-14 16:59:21 +0200 | hovsater | (sid499516@id-499516.lymington.irccloud.com) |
| 2023-09-14 16:59:21 +0200 | sclv | (sid39734@haskell/developer/sclv) |
| 2023-09-14 16:59:22 +0200 | sa1 | (sid7690@id-7690.ilkley.irccloud.com) |
| 2023-09-14 16:59:23 +0200 | T_S____ | (sid501726@id-501726.uxbridge.irccloud.com) |
| 2023-09-14 16:59:23 +0200 | hamishmack | (sid389057@id-389057.hampstead.irccloud.com) |
| 2023-09-14 16:59:25 +0200 | Adeon | (sid418992@id-418992.lymington.irccloud.com) |
| 2023-09-14 16:59:27 +0200 | tritlo_ | (sid58727@id-58727.hampstead.irccloud.com) |
| 2023-09-14 16:59:31 +0200 | idnar | (sid12240@debian/mithrandi) |
| 2023-09-14 16:59:35 +0200 | davetapley | (sid666@id-666.uxbridge.irccloud.com) |
| 2023-09-14 16:59:37 +0200 | dy | (sid3438@id-3438.helmsley.irccloud.com) |
| 2023-09-14 16:59:38 +0200 | iphy | (sid67735@id-67735.lymington.irccloud.com) |
| 2023-09-14 16:59:39 +0200 | skippy | (sid26890@id-26890.lymington.irccloud.com) |
| 2023-09-14 16:59:40 +0200 | systemfault | (sid267009@about/typescript/member/systemfault) |
| 2023-09-14 16:59:40 +0200 | NemesisD | (sid24071@id-24071.lymington.irccloud.com) |
| 2023-09-14 16:59:41 +0200 | nrr______ | (sid20938@id-20938.lymington.irccloud.com) |
| 2023-09-14 16:59:42 +0200 | rune_ | (sid21167@ilkley.irccloud.com) |
| 2023-09-14 16:59:42 +0200 | ProofTechnique_ | (sid79547@id-79547.ilkley.irccloud.com) |
| 2023-09-14 16:59:42 +0200 | cbarrett | (sid192934@id-192934.helmsley.irccloud.com) |
| 2023-09-14 16:59:42 +0200 | snek | (sid280155@id-280155.lymington.irccloud.com) |
| 2023-09-14 16:59:43 +0200 | alinab | (sid468903@helmsley.irccloud.com) |
| 2023-09-14 16:59:44 +0200 | integral | (sid296274@id-296274.lymington.irccloud.com) |
| 2023-09-14 16:59:44 +0200 | conjunctive | (sid433686@id-433686.helmsley.irccloud.com) |
| 2023-09-14 16:59:45 +0200 | <EvanR> | in class (Foo f, Bar f) => Baz f where, you have to have those 3 classes for each f, it can't borrow |
| 2023-09-14 16:59:45 +0200 | degraafk | (sid71464@id-71464.lymington.irccloud.com) |
| 2023-09-14 16:59:45 +0200 | jackdk | (sid373013@id-373013.tinside.irccloud.com) |
| 2023-09-14 16:59:48 +0200 | diagprov | (sid348783@id-348783.hampstead.irccloud.com) |
| 2023-09-14 16:59:49 +0200 | rubin55 | (sid175221@id-175221.hampstead.irccloud.com) |
| 2023-09-14 16:59:51 +0200 | <danse-nr3> | hey people that are joining again: what happened to your internet? |
| 2023-09-14 16:59:52 +0200 | Pent | (sid313808@id-313808.lymington.irccloud.com) |
| 2023-09-14 16:59:53 +0200 | JSharp | (sid4580@id-4580.lymington.irccloud.com) |
| 2023-09-14 16:59:53 +0200 | Fangs | (sid141280@hampstead.irccloud.com) |
| 2023-09-14 16:59:54 +0200 | aristid | (sid1599@uxbridge.irccloud.com) |
| 2023-09-14 16:59:54 +0200 | dy | (sid3438@id-3438.helmsley.irccloud.com) (Changing host) |
| 2023-09-14 16:59:54 +0200 | dy | (sid3438@user/dy) |
| 2023-09-14 16:59:56 +0200 | integral | (sid296274@id-296274.lymington.irccloud.com) (Changing host) |
| 2023-09-14 16:59:56 +0200 | integral | (sid296274@user/integral) |
| 2023-09-14 16:59:57 +0200 | skippy | (sid26890@id-26890.lymington.irccloud.com) (Changing host) |
| 2023-09-14 16:59:57 +0200 | skippy | (sid26890@user/slice) |
| 2023-09-14 16:59:58 +0200 | totbwf | (sid402332@uxbridge.irccloud.com) |
| 2023-09-14 16:59:59 +0200 | Guest3051 | (sid1055@id-1055.tinside.irccloud.com) |
| 2023-09-14 16:59:59 +0200 | diagprov | (sid348783@id-348783.hampstead.irccloud.com) (Changing host) |
| 2023-09-14 16:59:59 +0200 | diagprov | (sid348783@user/diagprov) |
| 2023-09-14 17:00:04 +0200 | jackdk | (sid373013@id-373013.tinside.irccloud.com) (Changing host) |
| 2023-09-14 17:00:04 +0200 | jackdk | (sid373013@cssa/jackdk) |
| 2023-09-14 17:00:05 +0200 | carter | (sid14827@2a03:5180:f:1::39eb) |
| 2023-09-14 17:00:05 +0200 | edmundnoble_ | (sid229620@helmsley.irccloud.com) |
| 2023-09-14 17:00:13 +0200 | Fangs | (sid141280@hampstead.irccloud.com) (Client Quit) |
| 2023-09-14 17:00:15 +0200 | ystael | (~ystael@user/ystael) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
| 2023-09-14 17:00:17 +0200 | AndreasK | (sid320732@id-320732.uxbridge.irccloud.com) |
| 2023-09-14 17:00:18 +0200 | bw_ | (sid2730@2a03:5180:f:3::aaa) |
| 2023-09-14 17:00:25 +0200 | SethTisue | (sid14912@id-14912.ilkley.irccloud.com) |
| 2023-09-14 17:00:26 +0200 | haasn | (sid579015@hampstead.irccloud.com) |
| 2023-09-14 17:00:26 +0200 | edm | (sid147314@hampstead.irccloud.com) |
| 2023-09-14 17:00:28 +0200 | meinside | (uid24933@helmsley.irccloud.com) |
| 2023-09-14 17:00:29 +0200 | <EvanR> | have to have instances* |
| 2023-09-14 17:00:30 +0200 | b20n | (sid115913@uxbridge.irccloud.com) |
| 2023-09-14 17:00:36 +0200 | ysh____ | (sid6017@id-6017.ilkley.irccloud.com) |
| 2023-09-14 17:00:44 +0200 | lexi-lambda | (sid92601@id-92601.hampstead.irccloud.com) |
| 2023-09-14 17:00:45 +0200 | lightandlight | (sid135476@id-135476.helmsley.irccloud.com) |
| 2023-09-14 17:00:45 +0200 | Fangs | (sid141280@2a03:5180:f:4::2:27e0) |
| 2023-09-14 17:00:46 +0200 | taktoa[c] | (sid282096@tinside.irccloud.com) |
| 2023-09-14 17:00:47 +0200 | <samlamamma> | Yup, you guys are entirely correct! |
| 2023-09-14 17:00:47 +0200 | chessai | (sid225296@id-225296.lymington.irccloud.com) |
| 2023-09-14 17:00:47 +0200 | agander_m | (sid407952@id-407952.tinside.irccloud.com) |
| 2023-09-14 17:00:48 +0200 | dsal | (sid13060@id-13060.lymington.irccloud.com) |
| 2023-09-14 17:00:49 +0200 | yandere | (sid467876@id-467876.ilkley.irccloud.com) |
| 2023-09-14 17:00:49 +0200 | mustafa | (sid502723@id-502723.hampstead.irccloud.com) |
| 2023-09-14 17:00:50 +0200 | christiaanb | (sid84827@id-84827.lymington.irccloud.com) |
| 2023-09-14 17:00:51 +0200 | bjs | (sid190364@helmsley.irccloud.com) |
| 2023-09-14 17:00:51 +0200 | acertain_ | (sid470584@id-470584.hampstead.irccloud.com) |
| 2023-09-14 17:00:53 +0200 | tnks | (sid412124@id-412124.helmsley.irccloud.com) |
| 2023-09-14 17:00:53 +0200 | hongminhee | (sid295@id-295.tinside.irccloud.com) |
| 2023-09-14 17:00:54 +0200 | gmg_ | gmg |
| 2023-09-14 17:00:54 +0200 | shawwwn | (sid6132@id-6132.helmsley.irccloud.com) |
| 2023-09-14 17:00:54 +0200 | delyan_ | (sid523379@id-523379.hampstead.irccloud.com) |
| 2023-09-14 17:00:55 +0200 | gaze___ | (sid387101@id-387101.helmsley.irccloud.com) |
| 2023-09-14 17:00:56 +0200 | smalltalkman | (uid545680@id-545680.hampstead.irccloud.com) |
| 2023-09-14 17:00:58 +0200 | SanchayanMaity | (sid478177@id-478177.hampstead.irccloud.com) |
| 2023-09-14 17:00:59 +0200 | yvan-sraka | (sid419690@id-419690.lymington.irccloud.com) |
| 2023-09-14 17:01:00 +0200 | PotatoGim | (sid99505@id-99505.lymington.irccloud.com) |
| 2023-09-14 17:01:01 +0200 | astra | (sid289983@id-289983.hampstead.irccloud.com) |
| 2023-09-14 17:01:02 +0200 | lally | (sid388228@id-388228.uxbridge.irccloud.com) |
| 2023-09-14 17:01:02 +0200 | joel135 | (sid136450@id-136450.hampstead.irccloud.com) |
| 2023-09-14 17:01:04 +0200 | gmc | (sid58314@id-58314.ilkley.irccloud.com) |
| 2023-09-14 17:01:04 +0200 | jakesyl____ | (sid56879@id-56879.hampstead.irccloud.com) |
| 2023-09-14 17:01:06 +0200 | Boarders___ | (sid425905@id-425905.lymington.irccloud.com) |
| 2023-09-14 17:01:06 +0200 | bjs | (sid190364@helmsley.irccloud.com) (Changing host) |
| 2023-09-14 17:01:06 +0200 | bjs | (sid190364@user/bjs) |
| 2023-09-14 17:01:15 +0200 | hook54321 | (sid149355@user/hook54321) |
| 2023-09-14 17:01:17 +0200 | mustafa | (sid502723@id-502723.hampstead.irccloud.com) (Changing host) |
| 2023-09-14 17:01:17 +0200 | mustafa | (sid502723@rockylinux/releng/mustafa) |
| 2023-09-14 17:01:17 +0200 | dmj` | (sid72307@id-72307.hampstead.irccloud.com) |
| 2023-09-14 17:01:17 +0200 | SrPx | (sid108780@uxbridge.irccloud.com) |
| 2023-09-14 17:01:21 +0200 | <danse-nr3> | in #linux they say it was irccloud, i did not know it had that many users |
| 2023-09-14 17:01:25 +0200 | NiKaN | (sid385034@id-385034.helmsley.irccloud.com) |
| 2023-09-14 17:01:38 +0200 | pavonia | (~user@user/siracusa) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2023-09-14 17:02:07 +0200 | pavonia | (~user@user/siracusa) |
| 2023-09-14 17:02:14 +0200 | NiKaN | (sid385034@id-385034.helmsley.irccloud.com) (Client Quit) |
| 2023-09-14 17:02:23 +0200 | <EvanR> | samlamamma, a deep dive into type classes which is at least good for deleting any preconceived notions of how type classes work https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hIZxTQP1ifo |
| 2023-09-14 17:03:04 +0200 | NiKaN | (sid385034@id-385034.helmsley.irccloud.com) |
| 2023-09-14 17:03:55 +0200 | <samlamamma> | Oooh you know what? I'm on vacation, I should print out some research papers |
| 2023-09-14 17:04:17 +0200 | <geekosaur> | yeh, irccloud just reset for some reason |
| 2023-09-14 17:08:25 +0200 | dhil | (~dhil@78.45.150.83.ewm.ftth.as8758.net) |
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| 2023-09-14 17:23:48 +0200 | Carbon-lang | (~Carbonlan@ip121.ip-149-56-160.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2023-09-14 17:25:36 +0200 | tromp | (~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) |
| 2023-09-14 17:28:45 +0200 | cfricke | (~cfricke@user/cfricke) (Quit: WeeChat 4.0.4) |
| 2023-09-14 17:30:25 +0200 | Carbon-lang | (~Carbonlan@ip121.ip-149-56-160.net) |
| 2023-09-14 17:30:43 +0200 | Simikando | (~Simikando@bband-dyn237.95-103-149.t-com.sk) |
| 2023-09-14 17:31:59 +0200 | eggplantade | (~Eggplanta@2600:1700:38c5:d800:242f:a39f:e332:2dc5) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2023-09-14 17:35:27 +0200 | eggplantade | (~Eggplanta@2600:1700:38c5:d800:242f:a39f:e332:2dc5) |
| 2023-09-14 17:36:02 +0200 | <ddellacosta> | EvanR: I love that talk |
| 2023-09-14 17:36:51 +0200 | <EvanR> | oops, the link description is Edward Kmett - Type Classes vs. the World (Boston Haskell) |
| 2023-09-14 17:37:09 +0200 | Simikando | (~Simikando@bband-dyn237.95-103-149.t-com.sk) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 2023-09-14 17:37:54 +0200 | <ddellacosta> | it really helped me understand how distinctly modules solve certain problems and what tradeoffs that gives you |
| 2023-09-14 17:42:27 +0200 | Carbon-lang | (~Carbonlan@ip121.ip-149-56-160.net) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2023-09-14 17:46:30 +0200 | <yin> | what's the canonical way of showing a record with indentation? |
| 2023-09-14 17:46:34 +0200 | Carbon-lang | (~Carbonlan@ip121.ip-149-56-160.net) |
| 2023-09-14 17:46:49 +0200 | <yin> | is there a showPretty somewhere? |
| 2023-09-14 17:47:03 +0200 | <EvanR> | I like pretty-simple package |
| 2023-09-14 17:47:42 +0200 | <yin> | EvanR: ty |
| 2023-09-14 17:51:43 +0200 | danse-nr3 | (~francesco@151.35.231.127) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2023-09-14 17:52:08 +0200 | <EvanR> | I changed my mind. To make the output reasonable you need to pass outputOptionsCompact = True |
| 2023-09-14 17:52:16 +0200 | <EvanR> | cool but not simple at all! |
| 2023-09-14 17:54:13 +0200 | machinedgod | (~machinedg@d198-53-218-113.abhsia.telus.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2023-09-14 17:54:47 +0200 | phma | (phma@2001:5b0:210b:c008:bd31:491b:c236:df4b) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2023-09-14 17:55:15 +0200 | <EvanR> | ddellacosta, and from that video I just learned ghci command :bro (:browse) xD |
| 2023-09-14 17:55:25 +0200 | phma | (~phma@host-67-44-208-16.hnremote.net) |
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| 2023-09-14 18:07:39 +0200 | econo_ | (uid147250@id-147250.tinside.irccloud.com) |
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| 2023-09-14 18:08:12 +0200 | _ht | (~Thunderbi@28-52-174-82.ftth.glasoperator.nl) |
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| 2023-09-14 18:11:56 +0200 | ystael | (~ystael@user/ystael) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 2023-09-14 18:13:06 +0200 | <EvanR> | samlamamma, great screenshot from the talk which sums up what I was remembering about it in relation to the question about diamond dependencies, https://i.imgur.com/A0Xvs9a.png |
| 2023-09-14 18:13:10 +0200 | caryhartline | (~caryhartl@168.182.58.169) (Quit: caryhartline) |
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| 2023-09-14 18:19:56 +0200 | caryhartline | (~caryhartl@168.182.58.169) |
| 2023-09-14 18:22:09 +0200 | <ddellacosta> | EvanR: haha a useful shortcut indeed |
| 2023-09-14 18:23:25 +0200 | Carbon-lang | (~Carbonlan@ip121.ip-149-56-160.net) |
| 2023-09-14 18:24:29 +0200 | danse-nr3_ | (~francesco@151.54.19.188) |
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| 2023-09-14 18:35:12 +0200 | Simikando | (~Simikando@bband-dyn237.95-103-149.t-com.sk) |
| 2023-09-14 18:35:43 +0200 | Ellenor | MelanieMalik |
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| 2023-09-14 19:19:43 +0200 | pavonia | (~user@user/siracusa) (Quit: Bye!) |
| 2023-09-14 19:21:06 +0200 | ddellacosta | (~ddellacos@ool-44c738de.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 2023-09-14 19:24:05 +0200 | tromp | (~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) |
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| 2023-09-14 19:30:33 +0200 | Carbon-lang | (~Carbonlan@ip121.ip-149-56-160.net) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
| 2023-09-14 19:33:04 +0200 | Simikando | (~Simikando@bband-dyn237.95-103-149.t-com.sk) (Quit: Leaving) |
| 2023-09-14 19:34:07 +0200 | justsomeguy | (~justsomeg@user/justsomeguy) |
| 2023-09-14 19:37:37 +0200 | Square | (~Square@user/square) |
| 2023-09-14 19:37:55 +0200 | Carbon-lang | (~Carbonlan@ip121.ip-149-56-160.net) |
| 2023-09-14 19:38:39 +0200 | <Square> | I watched a video on mu-haskell the other day. Among other things they had disabled Existential Types, GADTs and recursion. Just curious why GADTs would be considered dubious? |
| 2023-09-14 19:39:57 +0200 | <erisco> | Disabled recursion? Not sure what it is about but sounds like they're maybe trying to guarantee totality? |
| 2023-09-14 19:42:42 +0200 | machinedgod | (~machinedg@d198-53-218-113.abhsia.telus.net) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
| 2023-09-14 19:48:05 +0200 | <[exa]> | Square: any video or written note on the reasons there? |
| 2023-09-14 19:48:47 +0200 | qqq | (~qqq@92.43.167.61) |
| 2023-09-14 19:48:54 +0200 | <Square> | [exa], https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Xe0ujcThxg |
| 2023-09-14 19:49:11 +0200 | <EvanR> | disabled recursion in datatypes or code |
| 2023-09-14 19:49:38 +0200 | <[exa]> | Square: time? |
| 2023-09-14 19:50:11 +0200 | <EvanR> | I know higher order algebraic datatypes in HoTT can get pretty wild fast |
| 2023-09-14 19:50:29 +0200 | Carbon-lang | (~Carbonlan@ip121.ip-149-56-160.net) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 2023-09-14 19:50:45 +0200 | <[exa]> | oh what, the slides there literally say "but we didn't want to lose C++ and Excel interoperability" |
| 2023-09-14 19:52:14 +0200 | <Square> | EvanR, Code is my understanding. "You rarely need recursion" he said. *shrug* =D |
| 2023-09-14 19:52:18 +0200 | danse-nr3_ | (~francesco@151.54.19.188) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2023-09-14 19:52:20 +0200 | <EvanR> | lol |
| 2023-09-14 19:52:22 +0200 | <EvanR> | ok |
| 2023-09-14 19:53:22 +0200 | <EvanR> | in a DSL you can rely on primitive combinators which do specific things like map and reduce, which were verified using recursion correctly (if at all) |
| 2023-09-14 19:53:34 +0200 | <[exa]> | looks a bit like they wanted cobol |
| 2023-09-14 19:55:20 +0200 | Carbon-lang | (~Carbonlan@ip121.ip-149-56-160.net) |
| 2023-09-14 19:59:09 +0200 | connrs | (~connrs@user/connrs) (Quit: ZNC 1.8.2 - https://znc.in) |
| 2023-09-14 19:59:58 +0200 | connrs | (~connrs@user/connrs) |
| 2023-09-14 20:01:24 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@088-129-128-083.dynamic.caiway.nl) |
| 2023-09-14 20:02:20 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | turn haskell into cobol? |
| 2023-09-14 20:02:22 +0200 | tomsmeding | confused |
| 2023-09-14 20:02:35 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | it's easier to turn python into cobol |
| 2023-09-14 20:04:08 +0200 | nyr | (~nyr@user/nyr) |
| 2023-09-14 20:04:36 +0200 | connrs | (~connrs@user/connrs) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2023-09-14 20:05:27 +0200 | eggplantade | (~Eggplanta@2600:1700:38c5:d800:242f:a39f:e332:2dc5) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2023-09-14 20:05:57 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@088-129-128-083.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2023-09-14 20:06:10 +0200 | connrs | (~connrs@user/connrs) |
| 2023-09-14 20:07:42 +0200 | Carbon-lang | (~Carbonlan@ip121.ip-149-56-160.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2023-09-14 20:08:10 +0200 | tomjaguarpaw | (~tom@172.104.25.182) (Server closed connection) |
| 2023-09-14 20:08:22 +0200 | tomjaguarpaw | (~tom@172-104-25-182.ip.linodeusercontent.com) |
| 2023-09-14 20:11:19 +0200 | Carbon-lang | (~Carbonlan@ip121.ip-149-56-160.net) |
| 2023-09-14 20:15:32 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> Square: that looked good.. worth watching ? |
| 2023-09-14 20:16:11 +0200 | nyr | (~nyr@user/nyr) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2023-09-14 20:17:16 +0200 | <Square> | sm: I watched a bit by accident. It's not so much about Haskell/FP but how they use it on Standard Chartered bank. More interesting than it sounds tbh. =D |
| 2023-09-14 20:17:31 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> 👍️ |
| 2023-09-14 20:17:52 +0200 | [_________] | (~oos95GWG@user/oos95GWG) (Server closed connection) |
| 2023-09-14 20:18:11 +0200 | [_________] | (~oos95GWG@user/oos95GWG) |
| 2023-09-14 20:19:02 +0200 | <EvanR> | but it's easier to turn comonad into cobalnad, the inevitable name of such a library implementing the cobol comonad |
| 2023-09-14 20:22:27 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | EvanR: lowest sum of edit distances seems to be achieved for 'comon' -- 2 to comonad and 2 to cobol |
| 2023-09-14 20:22:44 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | (assuming you allow mutations as edits) |
| 2023-09-14 20:23:04 +0200 | eggplantade | (~Eggplanta@2600:1700:38c5:d800:242f:a39f:e332:2dc5) |
| 2023-09-14 20:23:24 +0200 | Carbon-lang | (~Carbonlan@ip121.ip-149-56-160.net) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 2023-09-14 20:24:33 +0200 | <EvanR> | c'monbal |
| 2023-09-14 20:24:59 +0200 | danza | (~francesco@151.43.248.148) |
| 2023-09-14 20:25:17 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | adding 'bal' makes it funnier |
| 2023-09-14 20:28:06 +0200 | todi1 | (~todi@p5dca5734.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 2023-09-14 20:28:13 +0200 | todi | (~todi@p5dca5c94.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2023-09-14 20:28:27 +0200 | <EvanR> | shoot that's a misspell |
| 2023-09-14 20:28:56 +0200 | Carbon-lang | (~Carbonlan@ip121.ip-149-56-160.net) |
| 2023-09-14 20:31:13 +0200 | ft | (~ft@p3e9bc52b.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
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| 2023-09-14 20:45:12 +0200 | todi1 | todi |
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| 2023-09-14 20:53:18 +0200 | eggplantade | (~Eggplanta@2600:1700:38c5:d800:242f:a39f:e332:2dc5) |
| 2023-09-14 20:57:32 +0200 | eggplantade | (~Eggplanta@2600:1700:38c5:d800:242f:a39f:e332:2dc5) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2023-09-14 20:58:52 +0200 | idgaen | (~idgaen@2a01:e0a:498:fd50:fcc6:bb5d:489a:ce8c) (Quit: WeeChat 4.0.2) |
| 2023-09-14 21:00:26 +0200 | drewjose0 | (~drewjose@129.154.40.88) |
| 2023-09-14 21:00:30 +0200 | Carbon-lang | (~Carbonlan@ip121.ip-149-56-160.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2023-09-14 21:01:03 +0200 | drewjose | (~drewjose@129.154.40.88) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2023-09-14 21:01:03 +0200 | drewjose0 | drewjose |
| 2023-09-14 21:01:51 +0200 | <monochrom> | You can recover existential types with GADT. So if someone seriously wants to ban existential types, they need to also ban GADT. |
| 2023-09-14 21:02:38 +0200 | <monochrom> | Furthermore, you can recover all of the above plus most recursive types with RankNTypes. So the someone should have also banned that. |
| 2023-09-14 21:02:54 +0200 | ncf | (~n@monade.li) (Server closed connection) |
| 2023-09-14 21:03:13 +0200 | ncf | (~n@monade.li) |
| 2023-09-14 21:03:29 +0200 | Carbon-lang | (~Carbonlan@ip121.ip-149-56-160.net) |
| 2023-09-14 21:03:42 +0200 | <monochrom> | OK actually I haven't done recovering GADT from RankNTypes. But RankNTypes can definitely let you recover existentials and most recursive types. |
| 2023-09-14 21:04:11 +0200 | aa | (~Username@104.28.200.197) |
| 2023-09-14 21:04:43 +0200 | aa | (~Username@104.28.200.197) (Excess Flood) |
| 2023-09-14 21:05:11 +0200 | <monochrom> | Oh, recursion in code? You can use recursive data types to recover recursion in code. |
| 2023-09-14 21:08:04 +0200 | privacy | (~privacy@47.219.84.6) |
| 2023-09-14 21:09:41 +0200 | powderhorn | (~powderhor@207-153-12-54.static.fttp.usinternet.com) |
| 2023-09-14 21:11:24 +0200 | <dolio> | Isn't the point in Standard Chartered to write libraries used by people who are domain experts, but not Haskell experts? |
| 2023-09-14 21:12:02 +0200 | <dolio> | So, you don't want to have to teach them about the rules for existential type or gadts and such. |
| 2023-09-14 21:15:47 +0200 | Carbon-lang | (~Carbonlan@ip121.ip-149-56-160.net) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2023-09-14 21:20:11 +0200 | privacy | (~privacy@47.219.84.6) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
| 2023-09-14 21:22:35 +0200 | Carbon-lang | (~Carbonlan@ip121.ip-149-56-160.net) |
| 2023-09-14 21:22:45 +0200 | tromp | (~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) |
| 2023-09-14 21:24:41 +0200 | Sciencentistguy2 | (~sciencent@hacksoc/ordinary-member) |
| 2023-09-14 21:26:45 +0200 | mc47 | (~mc47@xmonad/TheMC47) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2023-09-14 21:27:18 +0200 | Sciencentistguy | (~sciencent@hacksoc/ordinary-member) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
| 2023-09-14 21:27:19 +0200 | Sciencentistguy2 | Sciencentistguy |
| 2023-09-14 21:30:18 +0200 | eggplantade | (~Eggplanta@2600:1700:38c5:d800:242f:a39f:e332:2dc5) |
| 2023-09-14 21:31:51 +0200 | nek0 | (~nek0@2a01:4f8:222:2b41::12) (Server closed connection) |
| 2023-09-14 21:32:06 +0200 | nek0 | (~nek0@2a01:4f8:222:2b41::12) |
| 2023-09-14 21:32:57 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@088-129-128-083.dynamic.caiway.nl) |
| 2023-09-14 21:34:30 +0200 | eggplantade | (~Eggplanta@2600:1700:38c5:d800:242f:a39f:e332:2dc5) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2023-09-14 21:35:24 +0200 | Carbon-lang | (~Carbonlan@ip121.ip-149-56-160.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2023-09-14 21:35:29 +0200 | Square | (~Square@user/square) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
| 2023-09-14 21:37:00 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@088-129-128-083.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2023-09-14 21:41:13 +0200 | Carbon-lang | (~Carbonlan@ip121.ip-149-56-160.net) |
| 2023-09-14 21:42:25 +0200 | <exarkun> | When the ghc rts is multithreaded, when are the threads created? |
| 2023-09-14 21:51:01 +0200 | Square | (~Square@user/square) |
| 2023-09-14 21:51:30 +0200 | aaronv | (~aaronv@user/aaronv) |
| 2023-09-14 21:52:40 +0200 | chomwitt | (~chomwitt@2a02:587:7a15:5600:1ac0:4dff:fedb:a3f1) |
| 2023-09-14 21:53:49 +0200 | Carbon-lang | (~Carbonlan@ip121.ip-149-56-160.net) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 2023-09-14 21:54:10 +0200 | <monochrom> | My http://www.vex.net/~trebla/haskell/ghc-conc-ffi.xhtml may not answer that question as stated, but may come close, or even answer the real question. |
| 2023-09-14 21:54:13 +0200 | Batzy | (~quassel@user/batzy) |
| 2023-09-14 21:56:12 +0200 | <EvanR> | need the rts thread creation myth |
| 2023-09-14 21:56:26 +0200 | <monochrom> | There is also https://github.com/takenobu-hs/haskell-ghc-illustrated which you should bookmark for future reference. |
| 2023-09-14 21:57:42 +0200 | wootehfoot | (~wootehfoo@user/wootehfoot) |
| 2023-09-14 21:58:28 +0200 | Carbon-lang | (~Carbonlan@ip121.ip-149-56-160.net) |
| 2023-09-14 21:59:23 +0200 | <exarkun> | monochrom: nice, thanks |
| 2023-09-14 22:06:14 +0200 | michalz | (~michalz@185.246.207.201) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2023-09-14 22:06:26 +0200 | _ht | (~Thunderbi@28-52-174-82.ftth.glasoperator.nl) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2023-09-14 22:09:36 +0200 | nyr | (~nyr@user/nyr) |
| 2023-09-14 22:10:54 +0200 | Carbon-lang | (~Carbonlan@ip121.ip-149-56-160.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2023-09-14 22:12:36 +0200 | mokrates | (~user@2a04:4540:7105:1700:badc:5789:6bf6:5936) |
| 2023-09-14 22:13:46 +0200 | <mokrates> | hi, I am currently reading "real world haskell" to get an intro, but I am already curious: |
| 2023-09-14 22:16:04 +0200 | wootehfoot | (~wootehfoo@user/wootehfoot) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2023-09-14 22:16:08 +0200 | machinedgod | (~machinedg@d198-53-218-113.abhsia.telus.net) |
| 2023-09-14 22:16:14 +0200 | Carbon-lang | (~Carbonlan@ip121.ip-149-56-160.net) |
| 2023-09-14 22:16:53 +0200 | natto | (~natto@129.154.243.159) (Server closed connection) |
| 2023-09-14 22:16:57 +0200 | mokrates | (~user@2a04:4540:7105:1700:badc:5789:6bf6:5936) () |
| 2023-09-14 22:17:01 +0200 | mokrates | (~user@2a04:4540:7105:1700:badc:5789:6bf6:5936) |
| 2023-09-14 22:17:15 +0200 | <mokrates> | this data declaration: data Foo a b = a `Foo` b |
| 2023-09-14 22:17:17 +0200 | natto | (~natto@129.154.243.159) |
| 2023-09-14 22:17:40 +0200 | <mokrates> | sorry: data Foo a b = a `Foo` b deriving Show |
| 2023-09-14 22:17:53 +0200 | <mokrates> | a = 5 `Foo` 6 |
| 2023-09-14 22:17:55 +0200 | <mokrates> | a |
| 2023-09-14 22:18:00 +0200 | <mokrates> | 5 `Foo` 6 |
| 2023-09-14 22:18:04 +0200 | <mokrates> | ok, then |
| 2023-09-14 22:18:09 +0200 | <mokrates> | b = Foo 5 6 |
| 2023-09-14 22:18:11 +0200 | <mokrates> | b |
| 2023-09-14 22:18:19 +0200 | <mokrates> | -> 5 `Foo` 6 |
| 2023-09-14 22:18:24 +0200 | <mauke> | oh, it does that? |
| 2023-09-14 22:18:35 +0200 | <mauke> | @let data Foo a b = a `Foo` b deriving Show |
| 2023-09-14 22:18:37 +0200 | <lambdabot> | Defined. |
| 2023-09-14 22:18:40 +0200 | <mokrates> | how does Show know the "fixity"? do Constructors even have a fixity? |
| 2023-09-14 22:18:40 +0200 | <mauke> | > Foo 5 6 |
| 2023-09-14 22:18:42 +0200 | <lambdabot> | 5 `Foo` 6 |
| 2023-09-14 22:19:03 +0200 | <mauke> | there's a default fixity for operators if you don't explicitly define one |
| 2023-09-14 22:19:17 +0200 | <mokrates> | I didn't define any more than that |
| 2023-09-14 22:19:24 +0200 | <mokrates> | as you see with the bot |
| 2023-09-14 22:19:42 +0200 | <mokrates> | :i doesn't say anything either |
| 2023-09-14 22:20:04 +0200 | <mokrates> | and does a constructor Foo count as a operator? |
| 2023-09-14 22:20:36 +0200 | <shapr> | good afternoon? |
| 2023-09-14 22:20:47 +0200 | <mokrates> | evening ;) |
| 2023-09-14 22:21:00 +0200 | <shapr> | good evening mokrates |
| 2023-09-14 22:21:12 +0200 | <mauke> | "Any operator lacking a fixity declaration is assumed to be infixl 9" |
| 2023-09-14 22:21:26 +0200 | <mauke> | Foo doesn't, but `Foo` does |
| 2023-09-14 22:21:53 +0200 | <mauke> | https://www.haskell.org/onlinereport/haskell2010/haskellch4.html#x10-820004.4.2 |
| 2023-09-14 22:22:28 +0200 | <mokrates> | thank you very much |
| 2023-09-14 22:22:41 +0200 | <glguy> | there are two kinds of operators, symbols that aren't surrounded by ()s and identifiers that are surrounded by ``s |
| 2023-09-14 22:23:27 +0200 | <mauke> | the standard library defines custom fixities for `div`, `mod`, `elem`, and others |
| 2023-09-14 22:23:37 +0200 | ubert1 | (~Thunderbi@91.141.49.150.wireless.dyn.drei.com) |
| 2023-09-14 22:24:39 +0200 | ubert | (~Thunderbi@178.165.200.97.wireless.dyn.drei.com) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2023-09-14 22:24:39 +0200 | ubert1 | ubert |
| 2023-09-14 22:25:24 +0200 | <mokrates> | interesting... but how would I see those? Where would a show display `div`, `mod` or `elem`? |
| 2023-09-14 22:25:52 +0200 | <[exa]> | mokrates: re "how does show know fixity", there's showsPrec which should handle that |
| 2023-09-14 22:25:53 +0200 | <mokrates> | ok, I am currently at a slow computer, I just check that page |
| 2023-09-14 22:26:30 +0200 | caryhartline | (~caryhartl@168.182.58.169) (Quit: caryhartline) |
| 2023-09-14 22:27:04 +0200 | caryhartline | (~caryhartl@168.182.58.169) |
| 2023-09-14 22:27:18 +0200 | <[exa]> | actually I'm not really sure about what happens if you set the fixity after the Show instance is derived |
| 2023-09-14 22:27:25 +0200 | <mauke> | you wouldn't see `div` or other functions from show |
| 2023-09-14 22:28:05 +0200 | <mokrates> | aaah, I get it. the fixity declaration for `div` &al is just defining the precedence |
| 2023-09-14 22:28:07 +0200 | <mauke> | but ':i elem' in ghc will tell you infix 4 `elem` |
| 2023-09-14 22:28:23 +0200 | <mauke> | ghci doesn't show default fixities, though |
| 2023-09-14 22:28:39 +0200 | <mokrates> | whereas my `Foo`-definition tagged some "this-is-infix" information on to the constructor |
| 2023-09-14 22:28:58 +0200 | Carbon-lang | (~Carbonlan@ip121.ip-149-56-160.net) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) |
| 2023-09-14 22:29:10 +0200 | eggplantade | (~Eggplanta@2600:1700:38c5:d800:242f:a39f:e332:2dc5) |
| 2023-09-14 22:29:11 +0200 | <mauke> | well, 'deriving Show' is compiler magic |
| 2023-09-14 22:29:32 +0200 | <mokrates> | Yeah, I was disappointed when I read that |
| 2023-09-14 22:29:39 +0200 | <mauke> | the compiler has to generate an implementation of 'show' based on the type you wrote, and the compiler knows whether you used infix syntax for your data constructors |
| 2023-09-14 22:29:54 +0200 | <mauke> | so it mimics that |
| 2023-09-14 22:30:12 +0200 | <c_wraith> | well. it's magic, but it's not mysterious. |
| 2023-09-14 22:30:19 +0200 | <mokrates> | I really am like on page 70 and didn't know any haskell like 2 weeks ago |
| 2023-09-14 22:30:25 +0200 | <c_wraith> | It follows simple rules and generates code that you could write yourself |
| 2023-09-14 22:30:33 +0200 | <mokrates> | (apart from, idk, that it can pattern match and stuff) |
| 2023-09-14 22:31:16 +0200 | <mauke> | https://downloads.haskell.org/ghc/latest/docs/users_guide/exts/deriving.html we do have more advanced magic, though |
| 2023-09-14 22:31:20 +0200 | <mokrates> | The disappointing thing is that you can't define classes which can be derived (w/o using some compiler-dependent magic modules) |
| 2023-09-14 22:31:36 +0200 | <mokrates> | (or is this old info?) |
| 2023-09-14 22:32:10 +0200 | <mauke> | oh, and Template Haskell |
| 2023-09-14 22:32:22 +0200 | <mokrates> | yeah, c'mon, slowly |
| 2023-09-14 22:32:34 +0200 | <mauke> | which can generate instances as well (/me waves at lens) |
| 2023-09-14 22:32:37 +0200 | <mokrates> | I mean: EVERY book starts with "ok, here's hello world!" |
| 2023-09-14 22:32:39 +0200 | coot | (~coot@89-69-206-216.dynamic.chello.pl) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2023-09-14 22:32:49 +0200 | <c_wraith> | It's sort of half true. You can use compiler extensions to get access to tools that let you get closer and closer to GHC's built-in behavior for deriving. |
| 2023-09-14 22:33:04 +0200 | coot | (~coot@89-69-206-216.dynamic.chello.pl) |
| 2023-09-14 22:33:06 +0200 | <c_wraith> | But in the base language, the deriveable classes aren't something you can hook into |
| 2023-09-14 22:33:12 +0200 | <mokrates> | real world haskell is like: "ok, we don't have any side effects. no really! we don't! hello world, and printing on the screen? chapter SEVEN" |
| 2023-09-14 22:33:28 +0200 | Carbon-lang | (~Carbonlan@ip121.ip-149-56-160.net) |
| 2023-09-14 22:33:33 +0200 | <mokrates> | (real world haskell -- the book) |
| 2023-09-14 22:33:47 +0200 | <mauke> | main = putStr "Hello, world!\n" -- done |
| 2023-09-14 22:33:49 +0200 | <c_wraith> | to be pedantic, IO isn't *side* effects. It's not something that happens incidentally on the side. It's a type specifically for describing effects. |
| 2023-09-14 22:34:04 +0200 | <c_wraith> | I'm not sure how valuable that pedantry is |
| 2023-09-14 22:34:10 +0200 | jackneill__ | (~Jackneill@20014C4E1E101A0048EACD7D3B494F2B.dsl.pool.telekom.hu) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2023-09-14 22:34:11 +0200 | <c_wraith> | But it's sort of defensible |
| 2023-09-14 22:34:11 +0200 | <mokrates> | yeah yeah... I already know. But still. You guys are serious ;) |
| 2023-09-14 22:34:39 +0200 | <mokrates> | I like pedantry |
| 2023-09-14 22:35:00 +0200 | <mokrates> | And I already got a liiiittle bit of a, say, feeling for it |
| 2023-09-14 22:35:41 +0200 | <mokrates> | like for continuations (which I still don't really get my head around) |
| 2023-09-14 22:36:03 +0200 | <mokrates> | (did some lisp stuff, b/c you know: fun) |
| 2023-09-14 22:36:49 +0200 | privacy | (~privacy@47.219.84.6) |
| 2023-09-14 22:36:51 +0200 | <mokrates> | Did you know that common lisp doesn't have recursive types? I was as surprised as you are! |
| 2023-09-14 22:37:43 +0200 | <mauke> | I didn't know CL had types in the first place |
| 2023-09-14 22:38:09 +0200 | <mokrates> | It does. But it's weirdly tacked on |
| 2023-09-14 22:38:26 +0200 | <mokrates> | (as everything is weirdly tacked together) |
| 2023-09-14 22:39:00 +0200 | <mokrates> | ... *tacked together weirdly (is better english, I think) |
| 2023-09-14 22:39:08 +0200 | <mauke> | > sum [0.2, 0.2, 0.2, 0.2, 0.2] :: Rational -- I know CL can't do this one |
| 2023-09-14 22:39:09 +0200 | <lambdabot> | 1 % 1 |
| 2023-09-14 22:39:22 +0200 | <glguy> | afaik CL has "types" as much as Python has them |
| 2023-09-14 22:39:55 +0200 | <mokrates> | per standard, yes, but sbcl actually does type inference |
| 2023-09-14 22:41:03 +0200 | zmt01 | (~zmt00@user/zmt00) |
| 2023-09-14 22:41:28 +0200 | <mokrates> | and compiles to really concise code. And you *can* declare them, and then, depending on what you declare, and what your compiler offers, can have them checked or just optimized for (if you just optimize and disobey, you get interesting segfaults) |
| 2023-09-14 22:41:43 +0200 | justsomeguy | (~justsomeg@user/justsomeguy) |
| 2023-09-14 22:42:09 +0200 | <mauke> | all I remember is "type declarations" that are actually promises to the compiler: "I swear this variable will only contain fixed-width integers, so please generate optimized code that produces garbage if this assumption is violated" |
| 2023-09-14 22:42:33 +0200 | danza | (~francesco@151.43.248.148) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2023-09-14 22:42:56 +0200 | <mokrates> | but with classes and generic methods it has to use types to choose the correct method, similar to haskell has to find the right 'null' in the []-type or the e.g. Maybe-type |
| 2023-09-14 22:43:18 +0200 | danza | (~francesco@151.47.227.251) |
| 2023-09-14 22:43:32 +0200 | <mauke> | no, that's all runtime dispatch |
| 2023-09-14 22:43:40 +0200 | <glguy> | It only makes sense to call those types when you don't have types otherwise, though. That's runtime value dispatch, not type dispatch |
| 2023-09-14 22:43:42 +0200 | <mokrates> | mauke: sbcl will actually throw compiler errors at you if the inferred types don't match up |
| 2023-09-14 22:44:01 +0200 | <glguy> | if sbcl some some extensions, that's not Common Lisp having it |
| 2023-09-14 22:44:21 +0200 | <mauke> | some |
| 2023-09-14 22:44:22 +0200 | <mokrates> | CL permits it. |
| 2023-09-14 22:44:31 +0200 | <mauke> | yeah, by making it undefined behavior |
| 2023-09-14 22:44:48 +0200 | swamp_ | (~zmt00@user/zmt00) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) |
| 2023-09-14 22:44:52 +0200 | <mokrates> | yeah, a bit like pragmas in C but still in the standard |
| 2023-09-14 22:45:02 +0200 | <mokrates> | which is CL weirdness |
| 2023-09-14 22:45:54 +0200 | <mokrates> | mauke: is it all runtime dispatch in haskell? wouldn't that be slow if the type is known at compile time? |
| 2023-09-14 22:46:06 +0200 | Carbon-lang | (~Carbonlan@ip121.ip-149-56-160.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2023-09-14 22:46:10 +0200 | waleee | (~waleee@2001:9b0:21c:4000:5bf9:6515:c030:57b7) |
| 2023-09-14 22:46:21 +0200 | tromp | (~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) |
| 2023-09-14 22:46:51 +0200 | <mokrates> | ok, "in haskell" is probably the wrong question: in GHC would be more appropriate. (In Hugs it's probably all runtime..., I would think) |
| 2023-09-14 22:47:22 +0200 | <glguy> | Hugs isn't a compiler, so it can't talk about compile time |
| 2023-09-14 22:47:27 +0200 | nate2 | (~nate@c-98-45-169-16.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 2023-09-14 22:47:29 +0200 | <mauke> | ghc does resolve/inline class dictionaries at compile time when it can |
| 2023-09-14 22:47:39 +0200 | <mokrates> | glguy: fair enough |
| 2023-09-14 22:48:20 +0200 | <monochrom> | Using runghc to convert compile-time errors to run-time errors. >:D |
| 2023-09-14 22:48:25 +0200 | <monochrom> | s/Using/Use/ |
| 2023-09-14 22:48:26 +0200 | <int-e> | but then it does an indirect jump for every unevaluated thunk |
| 2023-09-14 22:48:30 +0200 | <mokrates> | as does sbcl with methods |
| 2023-09-14 22:48:32 +0200 | <mauke> | there are places where that's not possible, like class-generic operations with separate compilation, or runtime-generated types |
| 2023-09-14 22:48:49 +0200 | <mokrates> | monochrom: lol |
| 2023-09-14 22:48:50 +0200 | <monochrom> | But the serious answer is this: |
| 2023-09-14 22:49:09 +0200 | <mauke> | -fdefer-type-errors |
| 2023-09-14 22:49:17 +0200 | <int-e> | (I'm not sure how much utility the notion of "dispatch" has in implementations of Haskell.) |
| 2023-09-14 22:49:25 +0200 | <mokrates> | mauke: of course |
| 2023-09-14 22:49:32 +0200 | <monochrom> | Static type means that "if True then False else 34" is rejected, even if "obviously" the 34 is irrelevant. Dynamic typing means that it is accepted. |
| 2023-09-14 22:50:17 +0200 | <monochrom> | So for example, even runghc rejects that code, despite my joke. |
| 2023-09-14 22:50:28 +0200 | <c_wraith> | monochrom: I'm pretty sure you can make that one valid with sufficiently complex dependent types |
| 2023-09-14 22:50:35 +0200 | <monochrom> | In fact, even -fdefer-type-errors rejects that, IIRC. |
| 2023-09-14 22:50:40 +0200 | <mokrates> | It means that I can have a function which takes an Ord and uses < on it. But the implementation could be whatever... |
| 2023-09-14 22:50:43 +0200 | <mauke> | monochrom: only if you don't define a Num Bool instance |
| 2023-09-14 22:51:17 +0200 | Carbon-lang | (~Carbonlan@ip121.ip-149-56-160.net) |
| 2023-09-14 22:51:24 +0200 | <mokrates> | monochrom: yeah, it probably would reject that, b/c that looks like it can't be compiled |
| 2023-09-14 22:52:12 +0200 | nate2 | (~nate@c-98-45-169-16.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2023-09-14 22:52:36 +0200 | Square2 | (~Square4@user/square) |
| 2023-09-14 22:53:10 +0200 | <monochrom> | @quote monochrom poor.*dependent |
| 2023-09-14 22:53:10 +0200 | <lambdabot> | monochrom says: dynamic type is poor man's dependent type, they are so poor they can't buy a theorem prover. |
| 2023-09-14 22:54:10 +0200 | <mokrates> | damn! you slammed my limo interpreter. I was so proud of it! |
| 2023-09-14 22:54:43 +0200 | <mokrates> | (my lisp dialect... who learns lisp without building one, amiright?) |
| 2023-09-14 22:54:54 +0200 | <mokrates> | ok. back to mr. curry. |
| 2023-09-14 22:54:57 +0200 | <monochrom> | I did. |
| 2023-09-14 22:55:11 +0200 | Square | (~Square@user/square) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2023-09-14 22:55:12 +0200 | <mauke> | if nil evaluates to itself and (eq nil 'nil), then why is (if 'nil nil 34) 34? |
| 2023-09-14 22:55:27 +0200 | <mauke> | oh, because I'm dumb |
| 2023-09-14 22:55:41 +0200 | <mauke> | please erase all memories of what I just said |
| 2023-09-14 22:55:43 +0200 | <monochrom> | (if 'nil 34 nil) is better. :) |
| 2023-09-14 22:55:59 +0200 | <erisco> | known as lemma M4 |
| 2023-09-14 22:56:09 +0200 | <monochrom> | Actually, let's erase "if" and learn "unless" instead. >:D |
| 2023-09-14 22:56:21 +0200 | <mokrates> | what? |
| 2023-09-14 22:56:36 +0200 | <monochrom> | (unless 'nil nil 34) is more intuitive. >:) |
| 2023-09-14 22:56:36 +0200 | <mokrates> | so you're asking why (if 'nil 34 nil) -> 34? |
| 2023-09-14 22:56:59 +0200 | <mauke> | I actually wrote (IF 'NIL ...) in the repl |
| 2023-09-14 22:57:09 +0200 | <mauke> | I always uppercase my symbols out of respect |
| 2023-09-14 22:57:30 +0200 | <mokrates> | uppercase is the way from a more civilized time |
| 2023-09-14 22:57:41 +0200 | emmanuelux | (~emmanuelu@user/emmanuelux) |
| 2023-09-14 22:57:44 +0200 | <mauke> | WHEN PEOPLE WERE SHOUTING AT EACH OTHER ALL THE TIME |
| 2023-09-14 22:57:52 +0200 | <mokrates> | λimo > (if 'nil 34 nil) |
| 2023-09-14 22:57:58 +0200 | <monochrom> | I always lowercase because of the exciting "w00t finally a computer that supports lowercase, I should actually use it!" |
| 2023-09-14 22:57:59 +0200 | <mokrates> | -> 34 |
| 2023-09-14 22:57:59 +0200 | ubert | (~Thunderbi@91.141.49.150.wireless.dyn.drei.com) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 2023-09-14 22:58:07 +0200 | <monochrom> | s/exciting/excitement/ |
| 2023-09-14 22:58:16 +0200 | <mokrates> | oh... what? |
| 2023-09-14 22:58:23 +0200 | pavonia | (~user@user/siracusa) |
| 2023-09-14 22:58:45 +0200 | <mauke> | did you redefine nil, javascript style? |
| 2023-09-14 22:58:45 +0200 | <mokrates> | ah, yes, of course |
| 2023-09-14 22:58:56 +0200 | <mokrates> | a sec |
| 2023-09-14 22:59:01 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@088-129-128-083.dynamic.caiway.nl) |
| 2023-09-14 22:59:24 +0200 | <geekosaur> | or ruby style, I used that productively once |
| 2023-09-14 22:59:59 +0200 | <mokrates> | in limo "nil" is just a variable conaining () |
| 2023-09-14 23:00:00 +0200 | <mokrates> | and |
| 2023-09-14 23:00:15 +0200 | <mokrates> | λimo > (if '() 'true 'false) -> FALSE |
| 2023-09-14 23:00:36 +0200 | <monochrom> | Is it re-assignable? |
| 2023-09-14 23:00:51 +0200 | <mokrates> | so 'nil evaluates (in limo) to the symbol nil which is not () but a symbol. so -> true |
| 2023-09-14 23:00:57 +0200 | <monochrom> | Someone was obsessed with re-assigning a few days ago. |
| 2023-09-14 23:01:07 +0200 | <mokrates> | CL should may do it differently |
| 2023-09-14 23:01:35 +0200 | <mokrates> | CL-USER> (if 'nil 'true 'false) -> FALSE |
| 2023-09-14 23:01:46 +0200 | <mauke> | '|a||b| ; string concatenation (under quote) in common lisp |
| 2023-09-14 23:02:06 +0200 | <mokrates> | that works. nil is directly translated by the reader in this case |
| 2023-09-14 23:02:49 +0200 | <mauke> | more like, () evalutes to the symbol NIL, which is falsy |
| 2023-09-14 23:03:27 +0200 | <mokrates> | also, this is weird: |
| 2023-09-14 23:03:28 +0200 | acidjnk | (~acidjnk@p200300d6e7072f94d84002b8d460e75b.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) |
| 2023-09-14 23:03:50 +0200 | <mokrates> | (symbolp nil) -> T |
| 2023-09-14 23:03:51 +0200 | Carbon-lang | (~Carbonlan@ip121.ip-149-56-160.net) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
| 2023-09-14 23:04:01 +0200 | <mokrates> | (symbolp 'nil) -> T |
| 2023-09-14 23:04:12 +0200 | <mokrates> | (symbolp ()) -> T |
| 2023-09-14 23:04:49 +0200 | <mauke> | yeah, that matches what I said |
| 2023-09-14 23:05:04 +0200 | <mokrates> | why is it a symbol? |
| 2023-09-14 23:05:14 +0200 | <mokrates> | λimo > (SYMBOLP 'nil) -> :T |
| 2023-09-14 23:05:35 +0200 | <mokrates> | λimo > (SYMBOLP nil) -> () |
| 2023-09-14 23:05:49 +0200 | <mauke> | because CL is weird |
| 2023-09-14 23:05:50 +0200 | <mokrates> | (which is reasonable!) |
| 2023-09-14 23:06:03 +0200 | <mokrates> | yeah, cl is weird |
| 2023-09-14 23:06:34 +0200 | <mauke> | since it is a self-evaluating symbol, maybe it should've been called :NIL |
| 2023-09-14 23:06:54 +0200 | ystael | (~ystael@user/ystael) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2023-09-14 23:07:05 +0200 | <mokrates> | mauke: '|a||b| is not a string ;) |
| 2023-09-14 23:07:26 +0200 | <mauke> | then why does it quack (concatenate) like one? |
| 2023-09-14 23:07:52 +0200 | <mokrates> | I use :t for my true-value, b/c why define some special symbol for it? |
| 2023-09-14 23:08:03 +0200 | <mokrates> | mauke: it's a symbol |
| 2023-09-14 23:08:34 +0200 | <mauke> | :|not nil| |
| 2023-09-14 23:08:56 +0200 | <mokrates> | absolutely standard ;) |
| 2023-09-14 23:08:59 +0200 | <mauke> | actually, to maximize evil, you should probably call it :|nil| |
| 2023-09-14 23:09:32 +0200 | justsomeguy | (~justsomeg@user/justsomeguy) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2023-09-14 23:09:32 +0200 | <mokrates> | but I didn't know that was possible with the ||-concatenation |
| 2023-09-14 23:09:41 +0200 | <mokrates> | CL-USER> '|foo|bar -> |fooBAR| |
| 2023-09-14 23:10:10 +0200 | <mauke> | oh, it's very shell-like |
| 2023-09-14 23:10:10 +0200 | Carbon-lang | (~Carbonlan@ip121.ip-149-56-160.net) |
| 2023-09-14 23:10:48 +0200 | <mokrates> | but you have to admit: to be able to redefine your reader mid-program is mind melting yet powerful |
| 2023-09-14 23:12:14 +0200 | <mokrates> | λimo > (import "simplejson.limo") |
| 2023-09-14 23:12:21 +0200 | <mokrates> | λimo > (setq fromjson #j{"foo": [1, 2, 3]} ) |
| 2023-09-14 23:12:27 +0200 | <mokrates> | -> #<dict: (("foo" 1 2 3))> |
| 2023-09-14 23:13:33 +0200 | <mauke> | oh, like quasiquoting |
| 2023-09-14 23:13:54 +0200 | <mokrates> | I got knots in my head. |
| 2023-09-14 23:14:36 +0200 | <mauke> | here's a better canonical true value: (|FUNCTION| (lambda (|t| |f|) |t|)) |
| 2023-09-14 23:14:38 +0200 | <mokrates> | Seriously. I implemented ',', ',@' and '`' in the reader just as syntactic sugar |
| 2023-09-14 23:14:42 +0200 | <mauke> | now compatible with lambda calculus! |
| 2023-09-14 23:15:05 +0200 | <mokrates> | like `(,x) just translates to a list (quasiquote (comma x)). that's it |
| 2023-09-14 23:15:12 +0200 | Tuplanolla | (~Tuplanoll@91-159-68-236.elisa-laajakaista.fi) (Quit: Leaving.) |
| 2023-09-14 23:15:12 +0200 | <mokrates> | and then i defined a macro quasiquote |
| 2023-09-14 23:17:59 +0200 | <mokrates> | https://github.com/mokrates/limo/blob/master/limo-code/std.limo#L221C1-L221C1 |
| 2023-09-14 23:18:56 +0200 | <mokrates> | it's just a soup of cons and list and car and recursive calls |
| 2023-09-14 23:19:36 +0200 | powderhorn | (~powderhor@207-153-12-54.static.fttp.usinternet.com) (Quit: Client closed) |
| 2023-09-14 23:20:25 +0200 | <mauke> | soupcons of lists |
| 2023-09-14 23:20:36 +0200 | <mokrates> | mauke: about that lambda calculus... haskell has lazy eval... why does it have 'if'? |
| 2023-09-14 23:20:42 +0200 | <mokrates> | why isn't if just |
| 2023-09-14 23:20:53 +0200 | <mokrates> | if True x y = x |
| 2023-09-14 23:20:57 +0200 | <mokrates> | if False x y = y |
| 2023-09-14 23:20:58 +0200 | <mokrates> | ? |
| 2023-09-14 23:21:03 +0200 | <sshine> | :t if' |
| 2023-09-14 23:21:04 +0200 | <lambdabot> | error: |
| 2023-09-14 23:21:04 +0200 | <lambdabot> | • Variable not in scope: if' |
| 2023-09-14 23:21:04 +0200 | <lambdabot> | • Perhaps you meant ‘f'’ (imported from Debug.SimpleReflect) |
| 2023-09-14 23:21:04 +0200 | <geekosaur> | :t bool |
| 2023-09-14 23:21:05 +0200 | <lambdabot> | a -> a -> Bool -> a |
| 2023-09-14 23:21:06 +0200 | <mauke> | tradition? |
| 2023-09-14 23:21:44 +0200 | <geekosaur> | but `if` is actually syntax sugar for `case () of () | condition -> true | otherwise -> false` |
| 2023-09-14 23:21:54 +0200 | <mauke> | I mean, that is how the 'if' syntax behaves. and with RebindableSyntax you can make it explicit |
| 2023-09-14 23:22:59 +0200 | Carbon-lang | (~Carbonlan@ip121.ip-149-56-160.net) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 2023-09-14 23:24:36 +0200 | <mokrates> | hm... I would have thought it nicer to just have it as a function. Like in Clean |
| 2023-09-14 23:25:10 +0200 | <mokrates> | but ok. doesn't really change anything, I think |
| 2023-09-14 23:26:18 +0200 | <geekosaur> | iirc we've had trouble tracking down the folks involved with the original Haskell Report who made these kinds of decisions |
| 2023-09-14 23:26:41 +0200 | <sshine> | mokrates, you get some indentation rules that are nice with dedicated syntax |
| 2023-09-14 23:27:00 +0200 | <mokrates> | hm, ok |
| 2023-09-14 23:27:12 +0200 | <sshine> | mokrates, but judging from the backlog, I suppose you might say that macros can give that, too ;-) |
| 2023-09-14 23:27:22 +0200 | <dolio> | The natural answer is that the if-then-else syntax is way better than a function for many common if-then-else uses. |
| 2023-09-14 23:27:53 +0200 | <mokrates> | but in the end it's just cosmetics, right? |
| 2023-09-14 23:28:02 +0200 | <dolio> | Cosmetics matter. |
| 2023-09-14 23:28:05 +0200 | <mokrates> | or is there a semantic difference, too? |
| 2023-09-14 23:28:15 +0200 | <mokrates> | dolio: they absolutely do |
| 2023-09-14 23:29:24 +0200 | <mokrates> | But I learn faster if there's not tons of syntax all doing their own shit ;) |
| 2023-09-14 23:29:28 +0200 | Carbon-lang | (~Carbonlan@ip121.ip-149-56-160.net) |
| 2023-09-14 23:32:42 +0200 | <EvanR> | there is no semantic difference |
| 2023-09-14 23:33:09 +0200 | <EvanR> | so all you've got to worry about is the cosmetics! |
| 2023-09-14 23:33:23 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@088-129-128-083.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
| 2023-09-14 23:33:45 +0200 | <EvanR> | mokrates, you could write all your code in core, which is very uniform and has no bells and whistles |
| 2023-09-14 23:35:47 +0200 | nyr | (~nyr@user/nyr) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2023-09-14 23:38:33 +0200 | <mokrates> | yeah, of course not. expressiveness and cosmetics are relevant. to bother the lisp example again: I like when the core is slim and the whistles are all in macros which have certain constraints themselves and an implementation you can look at |
| 2023-09-14 23:39:25 +0200 | <mokrates> | thanks everybody :) |
| 2023-09-14 23:41:33 +0200 | mokrates | (~user@2a04:4540:7105:1700:badc:5789:6bf6:5936) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2023-09-14 23:42:06 +0200 | Carbon-lang | (~Carbonlan@ip121.ip-149-56-160.net) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
| 2023-09-14 23:43:29 +0200 | __monty__ | (~toonn@user/toonn) (Quit: leaving) |
| 2023-09-14 23:43:57 +0200 | mokrates | (~user@2a04:4540:7105:1700:badc:5789:6bf6:5936) |
| 2023-09-14 23:46:45 +0200 | takuan | (~takuan@178-116-218-225.access.telenet.be) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2023-09-14 23:47:00 +0200 | mokrates2 | (~user@2a04:4540:7105:1700:ccd1:ab0:40b8:b3a0) |
| 2023-09-14 23:47:19 +0200 | bontaq | (~user@ool-45707d2c.dyn.optonline.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2023-09-14 23:48:14 +0200 | Carbon-lang | (~Carbonlan@ip121.ip-149-56-160.net) |
| 2023-09-14 23:52:36 +0200 | Pickchea | (~private@user/pickchea) |
| 2023-09-14 23:54:02 +0200 | caryhartline | (~caryhartl@168.182.58.169) (Quit: caryhartline) |
| 2023-09-14 23:54:02 +0200 | acidjnk | (~acidjnk@p200300d6e7072f496ceee41d277bee3f.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 2023-09-14 23:56:58 +0200 | powderhorn | (~powderhor@207-153-12-54.static.fttp.usinternet.com) |
| 2023-09-14 23:58:31 +0200 | dhil | (~dhil@78.45.150.83.ewm.ftth.as8758.net) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
