IRCBrowse

2023/09/11

2023-09-11 00:06:12 +0200dcoutts(~duncan@82-69-94-207.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2023-09-11 00:09:13 +0200stites(~stites@2607:fb91:dc1:d690:17dd:ae60:28fd:17ef) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2023-09-11 00:09:32 +0200stites(~stites@2601:19c:4180:2fa0:2f0a:960b:48ea:b731)
2023-09-11 00:11:51 +0200lav(~pi@wikipedia/maddy-from-celeste) (Server closed connection)
2023-09-11 00:12:09 +0200lav(~pi@wikipedia/maddy-from-celeste)
2023-09-11 00:16:00 +0200eggplantade(~Eggplanta@2600:1700:38c5:d800:18df:787d:85fc:cca8) (Remote host closed the connection)
2023-09-11 00:18:50 +0200eggplantade(~Eggplanta@2600:1700:38c5:d800:2861:bb9d:e03c:c139)
2023-09-11 00:21:51 +0200haskl(~haskl@user/haskl) (Remote host closed the connection)
2023-09-11 00:22:10 +0200haskl(~haskl@user/haskl)
2023-09-11 00:22:26 +0200Tuplanolla(~Tuplanoll@91-159-68-236.elisa-laajakaista.fi) (Quit: Leaving.)
2023-09-11 00:24:34 +0200Unicorn_Princess(~Unicorn_P@user/Unicorn-Princess/x-3540542) (Remote host closed the connection)
2023-09-11 00:28:57 +0200privacy(~privacy@47.219.84.6)
2023-09-11 00:31:09 +0200coot(~coot@89-69-206-216.dynamic.chello.pl) (Quit: coot)
2023-09-11 00:32:00 +0200caryhartline(~caryhartl@168.182.58.169) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2023-09-11 00:32:42 +0200Square(~Square@user/square) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2023-09-11 00:32:52 +0200stites(~stites@2601:19c:4180:2fa0:2f0a:960b:48ea:b731) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2023-09-11 00:33:05 +0200stites(~stites@2607:fb91:dc1:d690:17dd:ae60:28fd:17ef)
2023-09-11 00:34:22 +0200zero(~z@user/zero) (Server closed connection)
2023-09-11 00:34:41 +0200zero(~z@user/zero)
2023-09-11 00:35:16 +0200merijn(~merijn@088-129-128-083.dynamic.caiway.nl)
2023-09-11 00:39:17 +0200ulysses4ever(~artem@73.145.240.137)
2023-09-11 00:39:54 +0200oo_miguel(~Thunderbi@78-11-179-96.static.ip.netia.com.pl) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2023-09-11 00:40:31 +0200g(g@libera/staff/glguy) (Remote host closed the connection)
2023-09-11 00:40:34 +0200g(g@libera/staff/glguy)
2023-09-11 00:41:59 +0200merijn(~merijn@088-129-128-083.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2023-09-11 00:43:30 +0200artem(~artem@c-73-103-90-145.hsd1.in.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2023-09-11 00:44:09 +0200artem(~artem@192.31.0.5)
2023-09-11 00:47:06 +0200ulysses4ever(~artem@73.145.240.137) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2023-09-11 00:49:54 +0200stites(~stites@2607:fb91:dc1:d690:17dd:ae60:28fd:17ef) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2023-09-11 00:50:23 +0200stites(~stites@130.44.147.204)
2023-09-11 00:54:41 +0200merijn(~merijn@088-129-128-083.dynamic.caiway.nl)
2023-09-11 01:09:14 +0200waleee(~waleee@2001:9b0:21c:4000:5bf9:6515:c030:57b7) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2023-09-11 01:09:39 +0200waleee(~waleee@2001:9b0:21c:4000:5bf9:6515:c030:57b7)
2023-09-11 01:12:43 +0200NinjaTrappeur(~ninja@about/aquilenet/vodoo/NinjaTrappeur) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2023-09-11 01:15:47 +0200chomwitt(~chomwitt@2a02:587:7a0c:4d00:1ac0:4dff:fedb:a3f1)
2023-09-11 01:18:36 +0200Katarushisu18(~Katarushi@cpc147790-finc20-2-0-cust502.4-2.cable.virginm.net)
2023-09-11 01:19:35 +0200Katarushisu1(~Katarushi@cpc147790-finc20-2-0-cust502.4-2.cable.virginm.net) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2023-09-11 01:19:35 +0200Katarushisu18Katarushisu1
2023-09-11 01:22:00 +0200chomwitt(~chomwitt@2a02:587:7a0c:4d00:1ac0:4dff:fedb:a3f1) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2023-09-11 01:23:31 +0200NinjaTrappeur(~ninja@about/aquilenet/vodoo/NinjaTrappeur)
2023-09-11 01:27:28 +0200random-jellyfish(~random-je@user/random-jellyfish) (Quit: Client closed)
2023-09-11 01:28:53 +0200merijn(~merijn@088-129-128-083.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2023-09-11 01:29:35 +0200sinbad(~sinbad@user/sinbad)
2023-09-11 01:31:17 +0200Guest28(~Guest28@c-73-248-220-123.hsd1.nj.comcast.net)
2023-09-11 01:31:37 +0200dhil(~dhil@78.45.150.83.ewm.ftth.as8758.net) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2023-09-11 01:32:03 +0200[itchyjunk](~itchyjunk@user/itchyjunk/x-7353470)
2023-09-11 01:40:16 +0200Guest28(~Guest28@c-73-248-220-123.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) (Quit: Client closed)
2023-09-11 01:45:26 +0200sinbad(~sinbad@user/sinbad) (Quit: Leaving.)
2023-09-11 01:52:17 +0200notzmv(~zmv@user/notzmv) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2023-09-11 01:54:43 +0200Lord_of_Life(~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2023-09-11 01:56:25 +0200Lord_of_Life(~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915)
2023-09-11 01:57:35 +0200nate2(~nate@c-98-45-169-16.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
2023-09-11 01:58:36 +0200arahael(~arahael@119-18-1-27.771201.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2023-09-11 02:00:03 +0200joel135(sid136450@id-136450.hampstead.irccloud.com) (*.net *.split)
2023-09-11 02:00:03 +0200hexology(~hexology@user/hexology) (*.net *.split)
2023-09-11 02:00:03 +0200aspen(sid449115@id-449115.helmsley.irccloud.com) (*.net *.split)
2023-09-11 02:00:04 +0200joeyh(joeyh@kitenet.net) (*.net *.split)
2023-09-11 02:00:04 +0200jil``(~user@vps-15050500.vps.ovh.net) (*.net *.split)
2023-09-11 02:00:04 +0200remexre(~remexre@user/remexre) (*.net *.split)
2023-09-11 02:00:04 +0200shailangsa_(~shailangs@host86-186-196-224.range86-186.btcentralplus.com) (*.net *.split)
2023-09-11 02:00:04 +0200[itchyjunk](~itchyjunk@user/itchyjunk/x-7353470) (*.net *.split)
2023-09-11 02:00:04 +0200waleee(~waleee@2001:9b0:21c:4000:5bf9:6515:c030:57b7) (*.net *.split)
2023-09-11 02:00:04 +0200lav(~pi@wikipedia/maddy-from-celeste) (*.net *.split)
2023-09-11 02:00:05 +0200adium(adium@user/adium) (*.net *.split)
2023-09-11 02:00:05 +0200goober(~goober@90-231-13-185-no3430.tbcn.telia.com) (*.net *.split)
2023-09-11 02:00:05 +0200Natch(~natch@c-9e07225c.038-60-73746f7.bbcust.telenor.se) (*.net *.split)
2023-09-11 02:00:06 +0200stefan-_(~cri@42dots.de) (*.net *.split)
2023-09-11 02:00:06 +0200kaskal(~kaskal@213-147-167-98.nat.highway.webapn.at) (*.net *.split)
2023-09-11 02:00:06 +0200immae(~immae@2a01:4f8:141:53e7::) (*.net *.split)
2023-09-11 02:00:06 +0200bionade24(~bionade24@2a03:4000:33:45b::1) (*.net *.split)
2023-09-11 02:00:06 +0200edwtjo(~edwtjo@fsf/member/edwtjo) (*.net *.split)
2023-09-11 02:00:06 +0200dtman34(~dtman34@2601:447:d000:93c9:e1b8:a026:e3cf:cdd2) (*.net *.split)
2023-09-11 02:00:06 +0200pointlessslippe1(~pointless@212.82.82.3) (*.net *.split)
2023-09-11 02:00:06 +0200srk(~sorki@user/srk) (*.net *.split)
2023-09-11 02:00:06 +0200angerman(uid209936@id-209936.ilkley.irccloud.com) (*.net *.split)
2023-09-11 02:00:06 +0200Patternmaster(~georg@user/Patternmaster) (*.net *.split)
2023-09-11 02:00:06 +0200liskin(~liskin@xmonad/liskin) (*.net *.split)
2023-09-11 02:00:06 +0200anpad(~pandeyan@user/anpad) (*.net *.split)
2023-09-11 02:00:07 +0200Philonous(~Philonous@user/philonous) (*.net *.split)
2023-09-11 02:00:07 +0200chymera(~chymera@ns1000526.ip-51-81-46.us) (*.net *.split)
2023-09-11 02:00:07 +0200thelounge793(~thelounge@95.179.128.119) (*.net *.split)
2023-09-11 02:00:07 +0200drdo(~drdo@bl8-38-186.dsl.telepac.pt) (*.net *.split)
2023-09-11 02:00:08 +0200titibandit(~titibandi@user/titibandit) (*.net *.split)
2023-09-11 02:00:08 +0200vgtw(~vgtw@user/vgtw) (*.net *.split)
2023-09-11 02:00:08 +0200koz(~koz@121.99.240.58) (*.net *.split)
2023-09-11 02:00:08 +0200schmoats(~thomas@user/oats) (*.net *.split)
2023-09-11 02:00:08 +0200telser(~quassel@user/telser) (*.net *.split)
2023-09-11 02:00:08 +0200woffs(3cd46299b2@woffs.de) (*.net *.split)
2023-09-11 02:00:08 +0200phileasfogg(~phileasfo@user/phileasfogg) (*.net *.split)
2023-09-11 02:00:08 +0200Nikopol(nikopol@user/astrorigin) (*.net *.split)
2023-09-11 02:00:09 +0200Athas(athas@sigkill.dk) (*.net *.split)
2023-09-11 02:00:09 +0200statusbot(~statusbot@ec2-34-198-122-184.compute-1.amazonaws.com) (*.net *.split)
2023-09-11 02:00:09 +0200g(g@libera/staff/glguy) (*.net *.split)
2023-09-11 02:00:09 +0200infinity0(~infinity0@pwned.gg) (*.net *.split)
2023-09-11 02:00:09 +0200remedan(~remedan@ip-94-112-0-18.bb.vodafone.cz) (*.net *.split)
2023-09-11 02:00:09 +0200tzh(~tzh@c-24-21-73-154.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) (*.net *.split)
2023-09-11 02:00:09 +0200Sciencentistguy(~sciencent@hacksoc/ordinary-member) (*.net *.split)
2023-09-11 02:00:09 +0200barrucadu(~barrucadu@carcosa.barrucadu.co.uk) (*.net *.split)
2023-09-11 02:00:10 +0200opqdonut(opqdonut@pseudo.fixme.fi) (*.net *.split)
2023-09-11 02:00:10 +0200jle`(~jle`@cpe-23-240-75-236.socal.res.rr.com) (*.net *.split)
2023-09-11 02:00:10 +0200geekosaur(~geekosaur@xmonad/geekosaur) (*.net *.split)
2023-09-11 02:00:10 +0200farn(~farn@2a03:4000:7:3cd:d4ab:85ff:feeb:f505) (*.net *.split)
2023-09-11 02:00:10 +0200Alex_test(~al_test@178.34.160.172) (*.net *.split)
2023-09-11 02:00:10 +0200cptaffe(~ZNC@2600:1700:f08:111f::18e7) (*.net *.split)
2023-09-11 02:00:10 +0200Franciman(~Franciman@mx1.fracta.dev) (*.net *.split)
2023-09-11 02:00:10 +0200Pixi(~Pixi@user/pixi) (*.net *.split)
2023-09-11 02:00:10 +0200Raito_Bezarius(~Raito@wireguard/tunneler/raito-bezarius) (*.net *.split)
2023-09-11 02:00:10 +0200robbert-vdh(~robbert@robbertvanderhelm.nl) (*.net *.split)
2023-09-11 02:00:11 +0200hays(rootvegeta@fsf/member/hays) (*.net *.split)
2023-09-11 02:00:11 +0200caasih(sid13241@id-13241.ilkley.irccloud.com) (*.net *.split)
2023-09-11 02:00:11 +0200hongminhee(sid295@id-295.tinside.irccloud.com) (*.net *.split)
2023-09-11 02:00:11 +0200mjs2600_(~mjs2600@c-174-169-225-239.hsd1.vt.comcast.net) (*.net *.split)
2023-09-11 02:00:11 +0200tstat(~tstat@user/tstat) (*.net *.split)
2023-09-11 02:00:11 +0200heath3(~heath@user/heath) (*.net *.split)
2023-09-11 02:00:12 +0200Ranhir(~Ranhir@157.97.53.139) (*.net *.split)
2023-09-11 02:00:12 +0200son0p(~ff@186.121.39.74) (*.net *.split)
2023-09-11 02:00:12 +0200Vajb(~Vajb@2001:999:500:7771:18aa:c4e5:e7a9:f44b) (*.net *.split)
2023-09-11 02:00:12 +0200mzg(mzg@lazy.unconscious.biz) (*.net *.split)
2023-09-11 02:00:12 +0200megaTherion(~therion@unix.io) (*.net *.split)
2023-09-11 02:00:12 +0200ph88(~ph88@ip5b403cd4.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) (*.net *.split)
2023-09-11 02:00:12 +0200bwe(~bwe@2a01:4f8:1c1c:4878::2) (*.net *.split)
2023-09-11 02:00:12 +0200bcmiller(~bm3719@66.42.95.185) (*.net *.split)
2023-09-11 02:00:12 +0200img(~img@user/img) (*.net *.split)
2023-09-11 02:00:13 +0200SethTisue(sid14912@id-14912.ilkley.irccloud.com) (*.net *.split)
2023-09-11 02:00:13 +0200Arsen(arsen@gentoo/developer/managarm.dev.Arsen) (*.net *.split)
2023-09-11 02:00:13 +0200m1dnight(~christoph@78-22-4-67.access.telenet.be) (*.net *.split)
2023-09-11 02:00:13 +0200cawfee(~root@2406:3003:2077:2758::babe) (*.net *.split)
2023-09-11 02:00:13 +0200shachaf(~shachaf@user/shachaf) (*.net *.split)
2023-09-11 02:00:13 +0200micro(~micro@user/micro) (*.net *.split)
2023-09-11 02:00:13 +0200shawwwn(sid6132@id-6132.helmsley.irccloud.com) (*.net *.split)
2023-09-11 02:00:13 +0200gaze___(sid387101@id-387101.helmsley.irccloud.com) (*.net *.split)
2023-09-11 02:00:13 +0200mxs(~mxs@user/mxs) (*.net *.split)
2023-09-11 02:00:13 +0200remexre(~remexre@user/remexre)
2023-09-11 02:00:15 +0200megaTherion(~therion@2001:470:1f09:68::1)
2023-09-11 02:00:15 +0200micro(~micro@178.79.128.27)
2023-09-11 02:00:15 +0200opqdonut(opqdonut@pseudo.fixme.fi)
2023-09-11 02:00:18 +0200mzg(mzg@37.221.213.54)
2023-09-11 02:00:20 +0200micro(~micro@178.79.128.27) (Changing host)
2023-09-11 02:00:20 +0200micro(~micro@user/micro)
2023-09-11 02:00:20 +0200edwtjo(~edwtjo@h-46-59-62-248.A213.priv.bahnhof.se)
2023-09-11 02:00:20 +0200bcmiller(~bm3719@66.42.95.185)
2023-09-11 02:00:21 +0200thelounge793(~thelounge@2a05:f480:1400:24b2:5400:4ff:fe76:a8f3)
2023-09-11 02:00:21 +0200mjs2600(~mjs2600@174.169.225.239)
2023-09-11 02:00:23 +0200img(~img@2405:6580:b8c0:1400:96c6:91ff:fea5:bc11)
2023-09-11 02:00:23 +0200joel135(sid136450@id-136450.hampstead.irccloud.com)
2023-09-11 02:00:24 +0200g(g@libera/staff/glguy)
2023-09-11 02:00:25 +0200SethTisue(sid14912@id-14912.ilkley.irccloud.com)
2023-09-11 02:00:26 +0200tzh(~tzh@c-24-21-73-154.hsd1.or.comcast.net)
2023-09-11 02:00:28 +0200ph88(~ph88@ip5b403cd4.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de)
2023-09-11 02:00:33 +0200Alex_test(~al_test@178.34.160.172)
2023-09-11 02:00:36 +0200angerman(uid209936@id-209936.ilkley.irccloud.com)
2023-09-11 02:00:36 +0200liskin(~liskin@ackle.nomi.cz)
2023-09-11 02:00:38 +0200farn(~farn@2a03:4000:7:3cd:d4ab:85ff:feeb:f505)
2023-09-11 02:00:38 +0200immae(~immae@2a01:4f8:141:53e7::)
2023-09-11 02:00:42 +0200hongminhee(sid295@id-295.tinside.irccloud.com)
2023-09-11 02:00:43 +0200waleee(~waleee@2001:9b0:21c:4000:5bf9:6515:c030:57b7)
2023-09-11 02:00:44 +0200m1dnight(~christoph@78-22-4-67.access.telenet.be)
2023-09-11 02:00:45 +0200Nikopol(nikopol@yoga.astrorigin.com)
2023-09-11 02:00:45 +0200joeyh(~joeyh@kitenet.net)
2023-09-11 02:00:47 +0200aspen(sid449115@helmsley.irccloud.com)
2023-09-11 02:00:47 +0200img(~img@2405:6580:b8c0:1400:96c6:91ff:fea5:bc11) (Changing host)
2023-09-11 02:00:47 +0200img(~img@user/img)
2023-09-11 02:00:49 +0200caasih(sid13241@ilkley.irccloud.com)
2023-09-11 02:00:54 +0200shawwwn(sid6132@id-6132.helmsley.irccloud.com)
2023-09-11 02:01:02 +0200edwtjo(~edwtjo@h-46-59-62-248.A213.priv.bahnhof.se) (Changing host)
2023-09-11 02:01:02 +0200edwtjo(~edwtjo@fsf/member/edwtjo)
2023-09-11 02:01:04 +0200bionade24(~bionade24@2a03:4000:33:45b::1)
2023-09-11 02:01:10 +0200Raito_Bezarius(~Raito@82-65-118-1.subs.proxad.net)
2023-09-11 02:01:12 +0200Ranhir(~Ranhir@157.97.53.139)
2023-09-11 02:01:12 +0200gaze___(sid387101@id-387101.helmsley.irccloud.com)
2023-09-11 02:01:20 +0200Athas(athas@2a01:7c8:aaac:1cf:8ff:b397:bb59:f8cd)
2023-09-11 02:01:29 +0200liskin(~liskin@ackle.nomi.cz) (Changing host)
2023-09-11 02:01:29 +0200liskin(~liskin@xmonad/liskin)
2023-09-11 02:01:45 +0200Nikopol(nikopol@yoga.astrorigin.com) (Changing host)
2023-09-11 02:01:45 +0200Nikopol(nikopol@user/astrorigin)
2023-09-11 02:01:51 +0200koz(~koz@121.99.240.58)
2023-09-11 02:02:10 +0200infinity0(~infinity0@pwned.gg)
2023-09-11 02:02:11 +0200son0p(~ff@186.121.39.74)
2023-09-11 02:02:12 +0200nate2(~nate@c-98-45-169-16.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2023-09-11 02:02:24 +0200statusbot(~statusbot@ec2-34-198-122-184.compute-1.amazonaws.com)
2023-09-11 02:02:44 +0200hexology(~hexology@user/hexology)
2023-09-11 02:02:47 +0200cawfee(~root@2406:3003:2077:2758::babe)
2023-09-11 02:03:17 +0200srk(~sorki@user/srk)
2023-09-11 02:03:22 +0200telser(~quassel@user/telser)
2023-09-11 02:03:48 +0200pointlessslippe1(~pointless@212.82.82.3)
2023-09-11 02:03:49 +0200Franciman(~Franciman@mx1.fracta.dev)
2023-09-11 02:03:57 +0200geekosaur(~geekosaur@xmonad/geekosaur)
2023-09-11 02:04:11 +0200[itchyjunk](~itchyjunk@user/itchyjunk/x-7353470)
2023-09-11 02:04:14 +0200geekosaur(~geekosaur@xmonad/geekosaur) (Remote host closed the connection)
2023-09-11 02:04:27 +0200mxs(~mxs@user/mxs)
2023-09-11 02:04:29 +0200Arsen(arsen@gentoo/developer/managarm.dev.Arsen)
2023-09-11 02:04:31 +0200stefan-_(~cri@42dots.de)
2023-09-11 02:04:31 +0200oats(~thomas@user/oats)
2023-09-11 02:04:35 +0200werneta(~werneta@70-142-214-115.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net)
2023-09-11 02:04:39 +0200cptaffe(~ZNC@2600:1700:f08:111f::18e7)
2023-09-11 02:04:40 +0200dtman34(~dtman34@c-76-156-89-180.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
2023-09-11 02:04:45 +0200Vajb(~Vajb@2001:999:500:7771:18aa:c4e5:e7a9:f44b)
2023-09-11 02:04:57 +0200geekosaur(~geekosaur@xmonad/geekosaur)
2023-09-11 02:05:02 +0200Philonous(~Philonous@user/philonous)
2023-09-11 02:05:11 +0200shachaf(~shachaf@user/shachaf)
2023-09-11 02:05:12 +0200phileasfogg(~phileasfo@user/phileasfogg)
2023-09-11 02:05:13 +0200bwe(~bwe@static.72.17.201.195.clients.your-server.de)
2023-09-11 02:05:16 +0200remedan(~remedan@ip-94-112-0-18.bb.vodafone.cz)
2023-09-11 02:05:16 +0200vgtw(~vgtw@user/vgtw)
2023-09-11 02:05:19 +0200Patternmaster(~georg@li1192-118.members.linode.com)
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2023-09-11 08:57:39 +0200 <phma> I'm writing a function that consumes a ByteString, turning it into a list of arrays of 32 bytes. I'd prefer a lazy ByteString, but maybe someone would give it an eager ByteString.
2023-09-11 08:58:17 +0200 <phma> Can I write the function to take both, or even also [Word8]?
2023-09-11 09:00:04 +0200 <Axman6> you could make a type class (there are plenty of packages which have done similar things). I would probably opt for choosing the one that's most easy to implement, and then helper functions that convert to the that type. strict -> lazy is east, [Word8] -> lazy is also easy
2023-09-11 09:01:35 +0200 <phma> So should I just take a lazy ByteString and leave it to the caller if he has something else?
2023-09-11 09:01:52 +0200sord937(~sord937@gateway/tor-sasl/sord937)
2023-09-11 09:02:00 +0200 <probie> phma: If you want to take both, take a lazy bytestring. The user of your function can handle the conversion (and conversion from strict bytestring to lazy bytestring is pretty much free)
2023-09-11 09:02:18 +0200 <phma> ok
2023-09-11 09:02:42 +0200 <jackdk> I would probably use a streaming library and accept a stream of strict bytestrings. But if you're not keen on learning that right now, a lazy bytestring is probably fine. but abstracting over all kinds of "binary-like" things tends to result in me asking "what types are actually in play here?"
2023-09-11 09:03:04 +0200notzmv(~zmv@user/notzmv)
2023-09-11 09:03:50 +0200Athas(athas@2a01:7c8:aaac:1cf:8ff:b397:bb59:f8cd) (Quit: ZNC 1.8.2 - https://znc.in)
2023-09-11 09:04:00 +0200Athas(athas@sigkill.dk)
2023-09-11 09:05:02 +0200fendor(~fendor@2a02:8388:1640:be00:c785:45ab:c70:9d3f)
2023-09-11 09:05:03 +0200 <phma> It's a hash function. The usual use cases that I'm aware of are hashing a string that's in memory and hashing a file. A file can be read into a ByteString, and a String can be turned into one.
2023-09-11 09:05:32 +0200 <Axman6> a combination of some streaming abstraction, and a parser combinator library for binary data, like attoparsec, sounds like it would avoid a lo9t of the issues you might get wrong if writing the logic for misaligned data yourself
2023-09-11 09:06:46 +0200 <phma> Axman6: you talking to me? I'm handling a meaningless stream of data, not parsing it.
2023-09-11 09:07:18 +0200 <Axman6> "a function that consumes a ByteString, turning it into a list of arrays of 32 bytes" is definitely a form of parsing
2023-09-11 09:07:59 +0200 <phma> no it isn't, it's just blocking. It doesn't care what the bytes are, just how many.
2023-09-11 09:08:35 +0200Unhammer(~Unhammer@user/unhammer)
2023-09-11 09:08:37 +0200 <Axman6> I will respectfully disagree with your narrow view of what parsing is :)
2023-09-11 09:09:22 +0200 <Axman6> Also, you might want to look at what libraries like... whatever cryptonite turned into, crypton? to see how others implement hash function interfaces
2023-09-11 09:10:29 +0200 <probie> jackdk: That locks you into a streaming library, which is not a problem for applications, but might be for libraries.
2023-09-11 09:11:49 +0200caryhartline(~caryhartl@168.182.58.169)
2023-09-11 09:12:03 +0200cfricke(~cfricke@user/cfricke)
2023-09-11 09:13:21 +0200 <Axman6> you basically just need some generic foldl style interface; IIRC pipes has something that takes in functions similar to fo0ldr, and can be used to convery a pipe into say a conduit or streaming
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2023-09-11 09:16:16 +0200 <phma> Crypton uses Ptr (Context a), and does not return an updated context, which sounds like it's using the FFI. I'm writing an implementation in pure Haskell (and also one in Rust).
2023-09-11 09:16:31 +0200_d0t(~{-d0t-}@user/-d0t-/x-7915216)
2023-09-11 09:17:02 +0200 <Axman6> it has pure and impure interfaces, the impure one is more efficient since it can just update the hash's state in plpace, but the pure one is definitely safer
2023-09-11 09:17:49 +0200 <Axman6> see https://hackage.haskell.org/package/crypton-0.33/docs/Crypto-Hash.html#g:4 for the pure interface
2023-09-11 09:18:00 +0200seeg123456(~seeg12345@64.176.64.83)
2023-09-11 09:24:12 +0200sm(~sm@plaintextaccounting/sm) (Quit: sm)
2023-09-11 09:24:14 +0200 <phma> Hmm, that too initializes, updates, and finalizes the context. What I'm writing doesn't have a context. It has an object containing a set of S-boxes, and a function that takes that object and a bytestring and returns a digest.
2023-09-11 09:24:17 +0200tzh(~tzh@c-24-21-73-154.hsd1.or.comcast.net) (Quit: zzz)
2023-09-11 09:25:05 +0200dhil(~dhil@78.45.150.83.ewm.ftth.as8758.net)
2023-09-11 09:29:37 +0200Lycurgus(~juan@user/Lycurgus) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2023-09-11 09:30:04 +0200 <probie> Is there any prior work on state machines in Haskell that emit on transition, where the type of what is emitted is dependent on the transition?
2023-09-11 09:34:39 +0200mmhat(~mmh@p200300f1c7178a00ee086bfffe095315.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
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2023-09-11 09:36:21 +0200 <probie> I'm thinking something that looks like `step :: ('Just transitions' ~ LookupTransition s a transitions) => State transitions -> Signal s a -> (a, State transitions')`
2023-09-11 09:37:18 +0200 <probie> Using `'` for prime as well `'` for promoting data types makes `'Just transitions'` look like some sort of string literal...
2023-09-11 09:46:24 +0200caryhartline(~caryhartl@168.182.58.169) (Quit: caryhartline)
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2023-09-11 09:50:36 +0200machinedgod(~machinedg@d198-53-218-113.abhsia.telus.net)
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2023-09-11 09:57:33 +0200 <dminuoso> probie: There is typed-protocols, it explores that design.
2023-09-11 09:57:43 +0200 <dminuoso> https://github.com/input-output-hk/typed-protocols
2023-09-11 09:58:28 +0200 <dminuoso> (It's a bit more specific than a generalized state machines, but worth looking at)
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2023-09-11 11:11:14 +0200danse-nr3(~francesco@151.57.246.146)
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2023-09-11 11:18:52 +0200 <albet70> what's the proper way to do exchange variable in async f1 and async f2? for example in f1 there's a variable named var1 and it's changed, how to send it to f2? this is easy in global variable
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2023-09-11 11:49:54 +0200 <danse-nr3> albet70, i guess f1 will have to return the variable, and f2 should start with that as a parameter
2023-09-11 11:51:14 +0200 <dminuoso> albet70: https://docs.python.org/3/library/asyncio-sync.html
2023-09-11 11:51:20 +0200 <dminuoso> As well as: https://docs.python.org/3/library/asyncio-queue.html
2023-09-11 11:52:03 +0200arahael(~arahael@119-18-1-27.771201.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net)
2023-09-11 11:52:38 +0200 <probie> If they actually need to "share", you probably want to use an `TVar`
2023-09-11 11:53:50 +0200 <dminuoso> Oh wait,
2023-09-11 11:53:55 +0200 <dminuoso> This is #haskell :)
2023-09-11 11:54:00 +0200 <dminuoso> Sorry about that. STM indeed.
2023-09-11 12:00:54 +0200notzmv(~zmv@user/notzmv) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2023-09-11 12:00:59 +0200 <albet70> danse-nr3 , but async f1 is an loop IO ans also f2, so no return
2023-09-11 12:02:53 +0200 <albet70> let's assume A-> B, and B -> C, B relay A's message to C and C's to A, and they are running in two asyncs
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2023-09-11 12:24:21 +0200 <danse-nr3> albet70, i see, like in a pipeline. I think channels would work well in this case
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2023-09-11 12:25:41 +0200 <danse-nr3> albet70, https://hackage.haskell.org/package/base-4.18.0.0/docs/Control-Concurrent-Chan.html
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2023-09-11 12:56:58 +0200 <haskellbridge> <t​ewuzij> Why a separate Haskell IRC room though?
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2023-09-11 13:05:19 +0200L29Ah(~L29Ah@wikipedia/L29Ah)
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2023-09-11 13:10:47 +0200 <haskellbridge> <m​auke> Matrix features like message edits, replies, and code blocks don't work great on IRC
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2023-09-11 15:08:30 +0200Inst(~Inst@120.244.192.250)
2023-09-11 15:08:37 +0200 <Inst> What's a lightweight Sha256 library in Haskell?
2023-09-11 15:08:37 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@ool-44c738de.dyn.optonline.net)
2023-09-11 15:09:09 +0200 <Inst> I'm looking at this library right now, should I switch to something else?
2023-09-11 15:09:11 +0200 <Inst> https://hackage.haskell.org/package/cryptohash-sha256-0.11.102.1/docs/Crypto-Hash-SHA256.html
2023-09-11 15:11:37 +0200cfricke(~cfricke@user/cfricke)
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2023-09-11 15:33:06 +0200YuutaW(~YuutaW@mail.yuuta.moe)
2023-09-11 15:33:15 +0200 <Inst> Ugh, why is Vincent using Data.ByteString.Lazy?
2023-09-11 15:35:04 +0200sinbad(~sinbad@user/sinbad)
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2023-09-11 15:43:11 +0200 <danse-nr3_> you mean the author of https://github.com/nspin/tls-pure?
2023-09-11 15:48:43 +0200 <jackdk> Why would one use strict bytestrings of unknown length when you want to stream them?
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2023-09-11 16:15:49 +0200[itchyjunk](~itchyjunk@user/itchyjunk/x-7353470)
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2023-09-11 16:23:30 +0200Inst(~Inst@120.244.192.250)
2023-09-11 16:23:43 +0200 <Inst> I mean that I'm using his sha256 library for want of alternatives.
2023-09-11 16:24:52 +0200lortabac(~lortabac@2a01:e0a:541:b8f0:d23e:afe2:ac44:ca90) (Quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2023-09-11 16:28:45 +0200 <lyxia> What's the etymology for "plate" as in uniplate, multiplate, etc.?
2023-09-11 16:29:35 +0200 <c_wraith> it looks like it comes from the Scrap Your Boilerplate paper, indirectly.
2023-09-11 16:30:17 +0200 <lyxia> ohhh boiler-plate
2023-09-11 16:30:31 +0200tzh(~tzh@c-24-21-73-154.hsd1.wa.comcast.net)
2023-09-11 16:30:46 +0200 <c_wraith> I have no idea what the etymology for *that* is, but I guess I could look it up. :)
2023-09-11 16:31:37 +0200sm(~sm@plaintextaccounting/sm)
2023-09-11 16:36:25 +0200 <darkling> Apparently, it's from text that was supplied to newspapers by (e.g.) advertisers in an easily resuable form. Presumably because the printing plates looked like the rolled plates used for making boilers.
2023-09-11 16:36:28 +0200gmg(~user@user/gehmehgeh)
2023-09-11 16:39:56 +0200NinjaTrappeur(~ninja@about/aquilenet/vodoo/NinjaTrappeur) (Quit: WeeChat 4.0.4)
2023-09-11 16:40:01 +0200 <danse-nr3_> etymonline.com/word/plate
2023-09-11 16:41:05 +0200 <Inst> Is Haddock-driven development a thing?
2023-09-11 16:41:23 +0200 <danse-nr3_> i guess it would be called literate programming
2023-09-11 16:41:54 +0200 <danse-nr3_> so the oldest root seems to be Greek platys "flat, broad"
2023-09-11 16:43:13 +0200NinjaTrappeur(~ninja@about/aquilenet/vodoo/NinjaTrappeur)
2023-09-11 16:43:32 +0200 <mauke> plato = broad dude, his wrestling name
2023-09-11 16:44:17 +0200 <sm> documentation-driven development is certainly a thing, a good thing!
2023-09-11 16:45:04 +0200 <danse-nr3_> after millennia we are still looking at the outside world from our caves
2023-09-11 16:45:18 +0200 <c_wraith> outside is scary. that's where the sun is.
2023-09-11 16:45:35 +0200random-jellyfish(~random-je@user/random-jellyfish) (Quit: Client closed)
2023-09-11 16:47:09 +0200 <danse-nr3_> is documentation-driven something different from literate? That must be the reason why the last time i tried literal it was a pain to make it play nicely with haddock. If i recall correctly, i started with literal and in the end had to change all the markup to turn it into plain doc
2023-09-11 16:49:53 +0200 <mauke> https://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2004/04/30/welcome-to-matrimony-theatre
2023-09-11 16:51:39 +0200 <sm> yes, those are distinct ideas
2023-09-11 16:51:50 +0200lortabac(~lortabac@2a01:e0a:541:b8f0:5332:dce7:7102:62a5)
2023-09-11 16:51:50 +0200kalj(~kalj@h-158-174-207-174.NA.cust.bahnhof.se) (Quit: Client closed)
2023-09-11 16:52:14 +0200 <danse-nr3_> sounds like an opportunity for a clever idea like doctest that gets super-convenient by contaminating two domains
2023-09-11 16:52:27 +0200zer0bitz_(~zer0bitz@user/zer0bitz)
2023-09-11 16:52:56 +0200 <sm> documentation-driven development: my first step is to write/update the documentation. From this, UX/design/tests/implementation follow.
2023-09-11 16:53:20 +0200 <danse-nr3_> but literate is also about writing documentation
2023-09-11 16:53:57 +0200 <sm> literate documentation: I maintain code and related documentation combined in one file, from which I can generate compilable code or renderable docs at any time
2023-09-11 16:54:54 +0200 <sm> actually "literate programming" is the usual term
2023-09-11 16:56:15 +0200 <Inst> literate in a haskell context implies use of LHS files and LHS formats
2023-09-11 16:56:21 +0200 <sm> Haskell's .lhs files are a (weak) form of literate programming
2023-09-11 16:56:33 +0200zer0bitz(~zer0bitz@user/zer0bitz) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2023-09-11 16:57:18 +0200 <danse-nr3_> i argue it is more convenient to do literate using haddock rather than LHS, as the latter does not integrate well with the former
2023-09-11 16:58:16 +0200Tuplanolla(~Tuplanoll@91-159-68-236.elisa-laajakaista.fi)
2023-09-11 16:58:42 +0200danza(~francesco@151.43.239.212)
2023-09-11 16:59:29 +0200 <mauke> .lhs is more appropriate if you're oleg, posting to usenet
2023-09-11 17:04:12 +0200cafkafk(~cafkafk@fsf/member/cafkafk) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2023-09-11 17:05:29 +0200danza(~francesco@151.43.239.212) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2023-09-11 17:05:31 +0200 <sm> a better definition of literate programming: I write my programs first as a text document intended to be read by humans, including code excerpts in any convenient order; and from this I can also generate the machine-executable program
2023-09-11 17:05:55 +0200 <danse-nr3_> which sounds almost the same as doc-driven
2023-09-11 17:06:30 +0200cafkafk(~cafkafk@fsf/member/cafkafk)
2023-09-11 17:08:12 +0200 <sm> LP could certainly be useful when doing DDD, and seems likely to encourage doing DDD. (You could be using a LP tool but choose to write all the code bits first, then you wouldn't be doing DDD.)
2023-09-11 17:09:18 +0200 <sm> so yes, there's overlap
2023-09-11 17:09:24 +0200 <haskellbridge> <j​ean-paul.> They differ a bit in the intended audience for what you're writing
2023-09-11 17:09:54 +0200 <sm> and, they're different ideas
2023-09-11 17:10:40 +0200cafkafk(~cafkafk@fsf/member/cafkafk) (Remote host closed the connection)
2023-09-11 17:11:03 +0200cafkafk(~cafkafk@fsf/member/cafkafk)
2023-09-11 17:13:36 +0200 <dolio> 'Documentation driven' sounds like it's going to waste considerable time in general, unless what you're doing is really boring.
2023-09-11 17:14:30 +0200 <haskellbridge> <j​ean-paul.> I don't think there is a known programming methodology that guarantees success without lots of wasted time
2023-09-11 17:14:49 +0200 <dminuoso> sm: Seeing as code is primarily intended to be read by humans and not machines, I like that definition.
2023-09-11 17:14:49 +0200 <dolio> It's going to waste even more time than normal. :)
2023-09-11 17:15:09 +0200 <dminuoso> Though in that sense, all programming *should* be literate programming, whether there is special syntactical support or not.
2023-09-11 17:15:14 +0200 <haskellbridge> <j​ean-paul.> dolio: As usual, I'm sure it depends a lot on the problem and the programmer and a bunch of surprising additional context.
2023-09-11 17:16:02 +0200 <EvanR> it would be nice if code was readable by humans, instead it's only readable by computers and programmers
2023-09-11 17:16:17 +0200Inst(~Inst@120.244.192.250) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2023-09-11 17:16:34 +0200 <sm> dolio: if you're making "code that will never need documentation / nobody will struggle to understand in future", then yes doc-driven sounds wasteful. And if you need to experiment first, then yes it's too soon to write docs.
2023-09-11 17:16:54 +0200 <sm> in other cases, in general I find writing docs first is the most efficient by far
2023-09-11 17:17:02 +0200 <dolio> Experimentation was the point.
2023-09-11 17:17:24 +0200 <dolio> If you always write documentation first, you will write lots of documentation that just needs to be thrown out, because what you were planning didn't work.
2023-09-11 17:17:41 +0200 <dminuoso> EvanR: Im willing to argue that this is objectively false.
2023-09-11 17:17:47 +0200 <dolio> Unless you already know exactly what will work before hand, which are the boring problems.
2023-09-11 17:17:53 +0200 <haskellbridge> <j​ean-paul.> If you always write implementation first, you will write lots of implementation that needs to be thrown out, because what you were planning didn't work.
2023-09-11 17:18:03 +0200 <dminuoso> If code was meant to be *only* readable by computers and programmers, we might as well just write machine code.
2023-09-11 17:18:14 +0200 <sm> dolio: I think you're over-generalising, and also using a pejorative word for what other people may be working on :)
2023-09-11 17:18:16 +0200 <EvanR> that was a thing at one point
2023-09-11 17:18:28 +0200 <EvanR> but I didn't say anything about "meant to"
2023-09-11 17:18:52 +0200 <sm> I agree that DDD like any approach would need to be justified in a particular domain / context
2023-09-11 17:19:27 +0200 <EvanR> I wonder what percent of all current programming tasks are "boring"
2023-09-11 17:19:35 +0200 <EvanR> 90%? 99%?
2023-09-11 17:19:41 +0200 <dminuoso> EvanR: Given that programmers tend to look over the code they have written, there's clearly some intent that you yourself read that code at least once or twice.
2023-09-11 17:19:58 +0200 <haskellbridge> <j​ean-paul.> EvanR: Tasks are not intrinsically boring. Boring is in the eye of the beholder.
2023-09-11 17:20:07 +0200 <danse-nr3_> maybe the advantages would be clearer if it was called rubberduck-driven dev
2023-09-11 17:20:13 +0200 <EvanR> dminuoso, I'm not sure if you missed or just willfully ignored the joke aspect of my statement earlier
2023-09-11 17:20:17 +0200 <dminuoso> Maybe.
2023-09-11 17:20:23 +0200 <dminuoso> Must have missed it.
2023-09-11 17:20:35 +0200 <dminuoso> Oh.
2023-09-11 17:20:59 +0200 <mauke> whenever I don't know exactly how to solve a problem, I just throw code together randomly. that's why I can't write any documentation for it
2023-09-11 17:21:16 +0200 <sm> dolio: or, maybe we don't disagree - "documenting" certainly means trying to write it, seeing it doesn't make sense, throwing it out, rewriting... that's the point, you can work out many things quicker and cheaper in the user docs than at any other stage
2023-09-11 17:21:30 +0200 <EvanR> /* no idea wtf this is doing */
2023-09-11 17:21:56 +0200 <danse-nr3_> {- i forgot but surely felt clever at the time -}
2023-09-11 17:22:04 +0200lortabac(~lortabac@2a01:e0a:541:b8f0:5332:dce7:7102:62a5) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2023-09-11 17:22:38 +0200 <dolio> Okay, so all programming activity is "documentation" under this philosophy?
2023-09-11 17:23:08 +0200 <danse-nr3_> it is not documentation until you made it a powerpoint
2023-09-11 17:23:11 +0200 <EvanR> we should invest in hardware accelerated documentation
2023-09-11 17:23:17 +0200 <EvanR> so the documentation runs faster
2023-09-11 17:24:12 +0200 <mauke> obviously. how else are my powerpoint transitions going to run smoothly?
2023-09-11 17:24:38 +0200__monty__(~toonn@user/toonn)
2023-09-11 17:24:38 +0200idgaen(~idgaen@2a01:e0a:498:fd50:fcc6:bb5d:489a:ce8c)
2023-09-11 17:25:09 +0200 <danse-nr3_> that's simple mauke, buy a new laptop
2023-09-11 17:25:30 +0200 <haskellbridge> <t​ewuzij> Humans are stupid to comprehend their own speech anyway
2023-09-11 17:26:06 +0200 <danse-nr3_> as a programmer i agree and do not feel insulted
2023-09-11 17:26:32 +0200 <sm> doliio: you could look at it that way. With that lens, I'd say something more general like "work at the cheapest/highest-value level first"
2023-09-11 17:27:25 +0200 <danse-nr3_> why would anyone care about accessibility to a mine?
2023-09-11 17:28:02 +0200 <sm> so writing docs (not editing, polishing...) is a vital part of design/development, yes
2023-09-11 17:28:02 +0200Axman6(~Axman6@user/axman6) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2023-09-11 17:28:14 +0200 <EvanR> I've heard "I don't want anyone to write any code" at the start of a project before, meaning they wanted a plan first. I.e. they didn't want to end up throwing away a bunch of code
2023-09-11 17:28:35 +0200 <EvanR> the exact opposite philosophy of dolio xD
2023-09-11 17:28:47 +0200 <danse-nr3_> nah that's just waterfall dinosaurs
2023-09-11 17:28:59 +0200 <dolio> I usually have a plan before writing code.
2023-09-11 17:29:08 +0200 <dolio> That doesn't mean I don't have to throw out code.
2023-09-11 17:29:12 +0200Inst(~Inst@120.244.192.250)
2023-09-11 17:29:30 +0200 <dolio> Everyone has a plan before they get punched in the face.
2023-09-11 17:29:36 +0200 <geekosaur> plans have this annoying tendency to change midstream as requirements change
2023-09-11 17:30:04 +0200 <c_wraith> I have seen that work great when the goal is to establish how different parts of a system will interchange data, distribute responsibilities, schedule work, etc. It doesn't work so well when the problem isn't understood well enough for that task to be done.
2023-09-11 17:30:28 +0200woffs(3cd46299b2@woffs.de)
2023-09-11 17:32:27 +0200waleee(~waleee@2001:9b0:21c:4000:5bf9:6515:c030:57b7)
2023-09-11 17:33:43 +0200 <dolio> @remember edwardk I love boring code.
2023-09-11 17:33:43 +0200 <lambdabot> Done.
2023-09-11 17:33:53 +0200 <sm> c_wraith, if you mean document-driven development - I find trying to produce (good, effective) docs is the quickest way to discover I don't understand a problem or system, or don't have the right UX design yet
2023-09-11 17:35:14 +0200dispater(~dispater@mail.brprice.uk) (Quit: ZNC 1.8.2 - https://znc.in)
2023-09-11 17:35:14 +0200orcus(~orcus@mail.brprice.uk) (Quit: ZNC 1.8.2 - https://znc.in)
2023-09-11 17:35:49 +0200 <danse-nr3_> dolio, does lambdabot even complain when entries are overwritten? I guess edwardk could point to many other reminders
2023-09-11 17:36:06 +0200 <c_wraith> sm: What exactly are you documenting? earlier you said "user docs", but do your user docs include what algorithm is necessary to solve a problem efficiently, or what subsystems must interact to provide the high-level result the user is asking for?
2023-09-11 17:36:17 +0200 <danse-nr3_> agree with sm there
2023-09-11 17:36:22 +0200 <dolio> I checked, it didn't seem to have that one yet.
2023-09-11 17:36:46 +0200 <danse-nr3_> thanks for checking
2023-09-11 17:36:49 +0200 <geekosaur> the quote stuff doesn't overwrite, each quote is distinct
2023-09-11 17:36:54 +0200dhil(~dhil@78.45.150.83.ewm.ftth.as8758.net)
2023-09-11 17:36:55 +0200dispater(~dispater@mail.brprice.uk)
2023-09-11 17:36:59 +0200 <c_wraith> yeah, each name maps to a list of quotes.
2023-09-11 17:37:00 +0200 <geekosaur> so if you enter it twice it is duplicated
2023-09-11 17:37:26 +0200orcus(~orcus@mail.brprice.uk)
2023-09-11 17:37:45 +0200 <c_wraith> There was a bug in an older version of lambdabot that made that plugin crash if you removed all the quotes from a specific user, as it left the key in the map associated with an empty list, and another part of the plugin assumed the list could never be empty
2023-09-11 17:38:07 +0200 <geekosaur> oops 😞
2023-09-11 17:38:31 +0200 <sm> c_wraith: usually end-user/stake-holder docs and UX first. Those are the high order/high value bit from which design/algorithm/implementation choices should follow
2023-09-11 17:38:40 +0200 <haskellbridge> <t​ewuzij> and as programmers we must strive for precision in our langs, not a Shakespearean play of words
2023-09-11 17:39:06 +0200 <geekosaur> try being precise with English…
2023-09-11 17:39:41 +0200 <EvanR> programmers think they are special and can escape the world of corporate doubletalk!
2023-09-11 17:40:23 +0200 <sm> if "user" means "developers", then sure, document the things they need to know to use it
2023-09-11 17:40:30 +0200 <c_wraith> sm: ok. Browsers have just changed the rules on how cookies act. The user story is "restore the previous functionality". The actual work is searching through hundreds of ways to sort out state storage such that the changed behavior is imperceptible to users. *all* the work, and whether it's even possible, is outside the scope of user documentation
2023-09-11 17:40:31 +0200 <EvanR> a necessary skill tbh
2023-09-11 17:40:32 +0200xmachina(~xmachina@modemcable048.127-56-74.mc.videotron.ca) (Server closed connection)
2023-09-11 17:41:02 +0200waleee(~waleee@2001:9b0:21c:4000:5bf9:6515:c030:57b7) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2023-09-11 17:41:02 +0200xmachina(~xmachina@modemcable048.127-56-74.mc.videotron.ca)
2023-09-11 17:42:24 +0200 <danse-nr3_> sm i love that ... do you have any pointers to companies or open projects following that process?
2023-09-11 17:42:49 +0200 <danse-nr3_> or do you write about it in any blog?
2023-09-11 17:42:53 +0200 <Inst> when did kmett say he loves boring code?
2023-09-11 17:43:07 +0200 <dolio> Don't recall. It's been a few years.
2023-09-11 17:43:18 +0200waleee(~waleee@2001:9b0:21c:4000:5bf9:6515:c030:57b7)
2023-09-11 17:44:19 +0200 <Inst> and I think dolio has a point, i.e, documentation / type driven / not using only gotos constrains your flexibility
2023-09-11 17:44:51 +0200 <EvanR> goto, now that's some extreme programming
2023-09-11 17:44:56 +0200 <sm> danse-nr3_ : not to hand - there's a bunch of bloggers talking about it at least. I try to follow it in my projects
2023-09-11 17:46:07 +0200 <danse-nr3_> sm, not haskellers, i guess (hoping to be wrong)
2023-09-11 17:46:14 +0200 <Inst> yeah but i'm trying to document this library first, i dropped my ponies project (for now) because I need an exact parser for cabal files, I'm going to have to write it, and there's tons of stuff I'd need to do first
2023-09-11 17:46:29 +0200 <Inst> in Haskell community, does Haskell need more document-driven development?
2023-09-11 17:46:41 +0200 <Inst> *documentation-driven development?
2023-09-11 17:46:45 +0200 <sm> c_wraith I'm having a little trouble digesting that wording, but I see no conflict. If I have some project that involves restoring previous cookie functionality, step 1 is to write - even just for myself - what that means. If I can't, it's research and experimentation time.
2023-09-11 17:46:51 +0200merijn(~merijn@088-129-128-083.dynamic.caiway.nl)
2023-09-11 17:47:14 +0200 <c_wraith> ah. so you do in fact do development before writing docs\
2023-09-11 17:47:15 +0200 <danse-nr3_> Inst, yes please, doc is not great often in haskell land
2023-09-11 17:48:24 +0200 <sm> c_wraith things necessary to document certainly must be done first - requirements elicitation, research, experimentation as needed. Trying to write the docs flushes them out. (Mentioned above too)
2023-09-11 17:51:13 +0200 <sm> maybe I sound more fundamentalist/absolute over chat, so please interpret as makes sense - I didn't mean "write and finish all docs before doing anything else" :)
2023-09-11 17:51:51 +0200eggplantade(~Eggplanta@2600:1700:38c5:d800:2861:bb9d:e03c:c139) (Remote host closed the connection)
2023-09-11 17:52:06 +0200eggplantade(~Eggplanta@2600:1700:38c5:d800:2861:bb9d:e03c:c139)
2023-09-11 17:52:25 +0200 <sm> short version: "step 1, try to document it" is a good rule of thumb
2023-09-11 17:53:42 +0200 <danse-nr3_> which i think is also the idea in literate programming, that is why they seem so similar to me
2023-09-11 17:53:45 +0200 <mauke> it's really just rubberducking
2023-09-11 17:54:05 +0200notzmv(~zmv@user/notzmv) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2023-09-11 17:54:11 +0200 <danse-nr3_> rubberduck-driven for the win
2023-09-11 17:55:33 +0200 <sm> (yes Haskell needs more document-driven development. Look at our tooling / developer experience)
2023-09-11 17:56:11 +0200 <danse-nr3_> wait before writing "haskell needs ...", we seem to be a minority here
2023-09-11 17:57:19 +0200 <haskellbridge> <t​ewuzij> If English were like Haskell, we would be gods today
2023-09-11 17:57:52 +0200 <danse-nr3_> this reference to myth recalls me of the babel tower ...
2023-09-11 17:59:24 +0200jespada(~jespada@cpc121308-nmal25-2-0-cust15.19-2.cable.virginm.net)
2023-09-11 18:07:34 +0200cptaffe(~ZNC@99-47-99-155.lightspeed.ltrkar.sbcglobal.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2023-09-11 18:08:31 +0200cptaffe(~ZNC@2600:1700:f08:111f::18e7)
2023-09-11 18:17:56 +0200merijn(~merijn@088-129-128-083.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2023-09-11 18:18:25 +0200_ht(~Thunderbi@28-52-174-82.ftth.glasoperator.nl)
2023-09-11 18:22:55 +0200 <danse-nr3_> i followed the syntax for type families here but must have got something wrong because the error sounds like the data is not specialised https://paste.tomsmeding.com/O0h8vqy6
2023-09-11 18:25:30 +0200Unicorn_Princess(~Unicorn_P@user/Unicorn-Princess/x-3540542) (Remote host closed the connection)
2023-09-11 18:25:49 +0200Unicorn_Princess(~Unicorn_P@user/Unicorn-Princess/x-3540542)
2023-09-11 18:27:35 +0200kuribas(~user@ip-188-118-57-242.reverse.destiny.be) (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 27.1))
2023-09-11 18:35:53 +0200segfaultfizzbuzz(~segfaultf@12.172.217.142)
2023-09-11 18:36:35 +0200 <segfaultfizzbuzz> is there such thing as a programming language designed to be "isomorphic" to assembly--that is to say that there is a bijection between code written in the language and asm, such that the asm can be inverted to the language?
2023-09-11 18:36:56 +0200 <segfaultfizzbuzz> (inverted without additional information)
2023-09-11 18:39:06 +0200 <c_wraith> sure. a non-macro assembler. :P
2023-09-11 18:39:53 +0200 <segfaultfizzbuzz> well, i mean a reasonably high level language
2023-09-11 18:40:23 +0200 <c_wraith> As long as there are two different language constructs that map to the same assembly, no.
2023-09-11 18:40:27 +0200 <mauke> can't be that high-level if you can compile asm to it
2023-09-11 18:41:07 +0200 <segfaultfizzbuzz> where does the lossiness happen
2023-09-11 18:42:29 +0200 <c_wraith> whenever you can express the same logic in multiple ways.
2023-09-11 18:42:49 +0200Lycurgus(~juan@user/Lycurgus)
2023-09-11 18:43:18 +0200bitmapper(uid464869@id-464869.lymington.irccloud.com)
2023-09-11 18:43:34 +0200 <ncf> if you mean a syntactic bijection then that's essentially just a different syntax for asm. if you mean a semantic bijection, then any turing-complete language
2023-09-11 18:43:43 +0200 <EvanR> ocaml takes a step in that direction with + is integer math and .+ is float math, but that's not specific enough to reverse from asm
2023-09-11 18:44:07 +0200 <mauke> ncf: how do you int $42 in any turing-complete language?
2023-09-11 18:44:29 +0200 <ncf> you define what function this computes and then compute that function
2023-09-11 18:44:39 +0200 <mauke> what do you mean by function
2023-09-11 18:45:03 +0200 <mauke> hah, it gets better
2023-09-11 18:45:16 +0200 <mauke> you have to distinguish between '', 'nop', 'nop; nop', and 'nop; nop; nop'
2023-09-11 18:45:28 +0200 <geekosaur> I'm tempted to just say FORTRAN
2023-09-11 18:45:39 +0200Lycurgus(~juan@user/Lycurgus) ()
2023-09-11 18:46:13 +0200 <segfaultfizzbuzz> heh ok well thanks for the answer
2023-09-11 18:47:19 +0200 <EvanR> also generic ASM which renders to specific ASM, and LLVM
2023-09-11 18:47:52 +0200 <EvanR> maybe not 100% reversible but each architectures ASM language is huge
2023-09-11 18:47:59 +0200tromp(~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl)
2023-09-11 18:48:00 +0200 <EvanR> lots of corner case functionality
2023-09-11 18:48:22 +0200 <institor> https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/WebAssembly/Understanding_the_text_format
2023-09-11 18:48:44 +0200 <institor> webassembly can be represented as an s-expr
2023-09-11 18:48:55 +0200 <EvanR> what...
2023-09-11 18:48:58 +0200 <institor> yes
2023-09-11 18:49:13 +0200 <EvanR> are they trying to make up for their mistake of not making javascript a lisp
2023-09-11 18:49:39 +0200 <institor> who knows
2023-09-11 18:49:44 +0200 <institor> syntactically speaking it doesn't get much simpler though
2023-09-11 18:49:57 +0200 <segfaultfizzbuzz> haha,... well i suppose i can give a small amount of partial credit for this answer, and i have once glanced at this,... i would say that this is lispy assembly,...
2023-09-11 18:50:21 +0200 <tomsmeding> it's more like they wanted a human-editable serialisation format
2023-09-11 18:50:29 +0200 <tomsmeding> and didn't want to invent a whole new syntax
2023-09-11 18:50:39 +0200 <tomsmeding> so an sexp representation of the basic AST it became
2023-09-11 18:50:43 +0200eggplantade(~Eggplanta@2600:1700:38c5:d800:2861:bb9d:e03c:c139) (Remote host closed the connection)
2023-09-11 18:50:43 +0200 <dolio> Just be glad it's not XML.
2023-09-11 18:50:51 +0200 <tomsmeding> ^
2023-09-11 18:51:03 +0200 <segfaultfizzbuzz> perhaps a better question is whether it is feasible to have an all consuming high level language,... you dump in anything at one end (asm, obfuscated C, obfuscated lisp, obfuscated haskell, whatever), and something which is rather understandable comes out at the other end
2023-09-11 18:51:29 +0200 <tomsmeding> no
2023-09-11 18:51:30 +0200 <tomsmeding> :')
2023-09-11 18:52:24 +0200 <EvanR> is this another calculus ratiocinator line of reasoning
2023-09-11 18:52:45 +0200 <EvanR> a machine which computes the answer to any question
2023-09-11 18:53:07 +0200 <mauke> inb4 babbage
2023-09-11 18:53:12 +0200tomsmeding. o O ( 42 )
2023-09-11 18:53:18 +0200 <geekosaur> "On two occasions I have been asked, – "Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?" ... I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question"
2023-09-11 18:53:23 +0200 <geekosaur> that yes
2023-09-11 18:53:33 +0200 <segfaultfizzbuzz> haha
2023-09-11 18:53:59 +0200 <dolio> geekosaur: Seems pretty common, to be honest. :)
2023-09-11 18:54:08 +0200 <mauke> asked [by members of parliament]
2023-09-11 18:54:21 +0200 <EvanR> that was way before "google" solved that one
2023-09-11 18:54:28 +0200waleee(~waleee@2001:9b0:21c:4000:5bf9:6515:c030:57b7) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2023-09-11 18:54:47 +0200 <danse-nr3_> my code worked using `type` rather than `data`, as in https://wiki.haskell.org/GHC/Type_families#An_associated_type_synonym_example, while originally i followed https://wiki.haskell.org/GHC/Type_families#An_associated_data_type_example
2023-09-11 18:55:01 +0200hiredman_(~hiredman@frontier1.downey.family)
2023-09-11 18:55:02 +0200 <mauke> segfaultfizzbuzz: what would it do with https://raw.githubusercontent.com/mauke/bggp4/main/poly/bggp.lhs ?
2023-09-11 18:56:27 +0200hiredman_hiredman
2023-09-11 18:56:56 +0200waleee(~waleee@2001:9b0:21c:4000:5bf9:6515:c030:57b7)
2023-09-11 18:57:40 +0200danse-nr3_(~francesco@151.43.239.212) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2023-09-11 18:57:46 +0200danse-nr3__(~francesco@151.35.238.24)
2023-09-11 18:58:09 +0200 <segfaultfizzbuzz> haha
2023-09-11 18:58:27 +0200 <segfaultfizzbuzz> well it can do anything, including running the program and observing what memory does
2023-09-11 18:58:39 +0200hiredman(~hiredman@frontier1.downey.family) (Client Quit)
2023-09-11 18:58:51 +0200hiredman(~hiredman@frontier1.downey.family)
2023-09-11 18:59:04 +0200 <mauke> "will this program halt?"
2023-09-11 18:59:05 +0200 <EvanR> it can do anything, including running the program and showing a blank white screen regardless
2023-09-11 18:59:24 +0200 <EvanR> like many PHP programs
2023-09-11 19:01:19 +0200 <segfaultfizzbuzz> haha
2023-09-11 19:01:24 +0200sm(~sm@plaintextaccounting/sm) (Quit: sm)
2023-09-11 19:02:05 +0200 <mauke> most programs are PHP quines
2023-09-11 19:02:38 +0200sm(~sm@plaintextaccounting/sm)
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2023-09-11 19:33:34 +0200 <haskellbridge> <j​ean-paul.> Therefore, most PHP programmers are quiners?
2023-09-11 19:35:22 +0200merijn(~merijn@088-129-128-083.dynamic.caiway.nl)
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2023-09-11 20:03:54 +0200notzmv(~zmv@user/notzmv)
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2023-09-11 20:18:23 +0200 <monochrom> I don't question the possibility that an automaton can guess what's wrong with your code and how to fix it. After all, some of us can do it and even do it for money.
2023-09-11 20:19:02 +0200 <monochrom> I do question the motivation behind wanting to actually automate it. Like, you want to take away people's jobs?!
2023-09-11 20:21:24 +0200waleee(~waleee@2001:9b0:21c:4000:5bf9:6515:c030:57b7) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
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2023-09-11 20:32:52 +0200 <EvanR> monochrom, so you might need to get up to speed with this thing called industrial revolution
2023-09-11 20:33:00 +0200 <EvanR> it's pretty great
2023-09-11 20:33:10 +0200 <monochrom> :(
2023-09-11 20:33:20 +0200 <monochrom> heh
2023-09-11 20:33:39 +0200tromp(~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl)
2023-09-11 20:33:54 +0200 <monochrom> Is that a pun? Industrial revolution and get up to speed? :)
2023-09-11 20:34:12 +0200segfaultfizzbuzz(~segfaultf@12.172.217.142) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2023-09-11 20:34:34 +0200vglfr(~vglfr@cli-188-239-201-89.bbn.slav.dn.ua) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2023-09-11 20:35:21 +0200vglfr(~vglfr@37.73.29.50)
2023-09-11 20:37:41 +0200 <EvanR> good question
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2023-09-11 20:43:56 +0200 <mauke> we'd need an industrial revolver
2023-09-11 20:44:35 +0200vglfr(~vglfr@cli-188-239-201-89.bbn.slav.dn.ua)
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2023-09-11 23:08:35 +0200 <Inst> question about Cabal / GHC
2023-09-11 23:08:49 +0200waleee(~waleee@h-176-10-137-138.NA.cust.bahnhof.se) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2023-09-11 23:08:49 +0200 <Inst> If I move my TH functions to a different file in the same library, can I reduce compile times?
2023-09-11 23:08:59 +0200 <Inst> Or does TH contaminate everything?
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2023-09-11 23:20:57 +0200 <Square> Inst, I'm curious about TH in terms of compile time too. I use it in a GHCJS project and there it seems to spawn so much extra compiler work.
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2023-09-11 23:26:01 +0200 <EvanR> definitely consider TH a last resort because of that
2023-09-11 23:26:07 +0200ulysses4ever(~artem@192.31.0.5) (Client Quit)
2023-09-11 23:26:23 +0200 <EvanR> this is haskell not C++
2023-09-11 23:27:16 +0200segfaultfizzbuzz(~segfaultf@12.172.217.142) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2023-09-11 23:27:34 +0200nate2(~nate@c-98-45-169-16.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2023-09-11 23:28:13 +0200 <Inst> EvanR: so Lens and Optics are verboten? :)
2023-09-11 23:28:49 +0200 <EvanR> some libraries used TH for stuff that other technically covered but came out later
2023-09-11 23:28:58 +0200 <EvanR> like Generics and the HasField stuff
2023-09-11 23:29:09 +0200 <EvanR> other technology*
2023-09-11 23:29:54 +0200sm(~sm@plaintextaccounting/sm)
2023-09-11 23:30:19 +0200 <EvanR> you can define lenses without TH, too. If it's not many types it's not bad
2023-09-11 23:30:39 +0200sinbad(~sinbad@user/sinbad) ()
2023-09-11 23:30:43 +0200segfaultfizzbuzz(~segfaultf@12.172.217.142)
2023-09-11 23:31:30 +0200 <Inst> My problem is that I'm using file-embed / file-embed-like techniques to pack data into a binary
2023-09-11 23:31:32 +0200 <Inst> AND
2023-09-11 23:31:50 +0200 <Inst> it's only one of many options, so I'd like to stuff the TH into the TH quarantine facility and keep it there, but I'm scared it'll leak :(
2023-09-11 23:32:22 +0200 <EvanR> TH seems like a heavyweight way to do that
2023-09-11 23:32:41 +0200 <int-e> I don't think it's TH as much as ghc struggling with big data types and expressions. So more of a problem with generated code in general.
2023-09-11 23:32:46 +0200fendor(~fendor@2a02:8388:1640:be00:c785:45ab:c70:9d3f) (Remote host closed the connection)
2023-09-11 23:33:27 +0200 <EvanR> link in a C object file and use FFI to import the data at runtime
2023-09-11 23:33:48 +0200 <Inst> the lightweight way to do it is just use flatpak
2023-09-11 23:33:49 +0200 <EvanR> or some less macguyver way to include data in an exe
2023-09-11 23:34:23 +0200 <Inst> i'm dealing with the problem that GHC-cabal has difficulty distributing .dlls etc when building, apparently data-files stuffs things into a cabal directory so it's less suited for distribution
2023-09-11 23:37:09 +0200sm(~sm@plaintextaccounting/sm) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2023-09-11 23:40:55 +0200 <sclv> data-files is for files that programs compiled with cabal know how to find
2023-09-11 23:41:09 +0200 <sclv> its for "data files" associated with a package, not dlls or the like that need to go into a fixxed location
2023-09-11 23:41:51 +0200tromp(~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2023-09-11 23:42:10 +0200 <sclv> cabal isn't engineered to install arbitrary binary files in arbitrary system locations
2023-09-11 23:43:31 +0200 <shapr> sclv: I enjoyed our chat about spying on data structures
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2023-09-11 23:45:46 +0200 <sclv> shapr: remembered the lens function name! "upon" https://hackage.haskell.org/package/lens-5.2.3/docs/Data-Data-Lens.html#v:upon
2023-09-11 23:46:06 +0200 <shapr> hurrah!
2023-09-11 23:46:50 +0200 <shapr> Ed told me he did a similar thing in one of his posts, but it looks like the sort of thing I'll have to read six times before I have a clue: http://comonad.com/reader/2011/searching-infinity/
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2023-09-11 23:47:12 +0200tromp(~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl)
2023-09-11 23:47:15 +0200nonzen(~nonzen@user/nonzen)
2023-09-11 23:47:17 +0200 <shapr> That is, similar to the thunk spying cdsmith and I did with trynocular
2023-09-11 23:48:54 +0200 <shapr> I wish I could find the recording for Haskell Implementor's Workshop, I don't remember all the questions I got at the end of my lightning talk, and some of them were very interesting.
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2023-09-11 23:59:02 +0200Inst(~Inst@120.244.192.250) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)