2023/08/31

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2023-08-31 02:27:29 +0200falafel_(~falafel@233.68.6.51.dyn.plus.net) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2023-08-31 02:28:07 +0200 <Inst> new ways to procrastinate, must resist
2023-08-31 02:28:13 +0200 <Inst> add pure' to base
2023-08-31 02:28:27 +0200 <Inst> well, too much trouble to write it to CLC
2023-08-31 02:35:26 +0200arahael(~arahael@119-18-1-27.771201.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net)
2023-08-31 02:40:10 +0200merijn(~merijn@088-129-128-083.dynamic.caiway.nl)
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2023-08-31 02:44:53 +0200merijn(~merijn@088-129-128-083.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2023-08-31 02:50:33 +0200 <jackdk> https://hackage.haskell.org/package/base-4.18.0.0/docs/Prelude.html#v:pure ?????
2023-08-31 02:51:04 +0200 <jackdk> I'm not sure what you mean here.
2023-08-31 02:51:39 +0200 <int-e> I think they are thinking about pure' x = pure $! x which I'm pretty sure will never happen
2023-08-31 02:52:32 +0200grnman_(~michaelsc@c-66-176-3-51.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2023-08-31 02:52:43 +0200 <Inst> deepseq in prelude though, what about that?
2023-08-31 02:52:52 +0200 <Inst> force, at least
2023-08-31 02:52:58 +0200 <int-e> lol
2023-08-31 02:53:10 +0200sm(~sm@plaintextaccounting/sm)
2023-08-31 02:54:20 +0200 <Inst> conflicts with vector
2023-08-31 02:54:39 +0200 <int-e> (lol because `force` is defined in terms of `deepseq`)
2023-08-31 02:54:52 +0200 <Inst> i know
2023-08-31 02:55:06 +0200 <Inst> or, at least i did, but it doesn't really matter because I don't use deepseq, I use force, like everyone else?
2023-08-31 02:55:20 +0200 <EvanR> need a function which just primes any function. (a -> b) -> a -> b
2023-08-31 02:55:22 +0200 <int-e> There will be strong resistance to adding anything to Prelude.
2023-08-31 02:55:26 +0200 <EvanR> :t ($!)
2023-08-31 02:55:27 +0200 <lambdabot> (a -> b) -> a -> b
2023-08-31 02:55:31 +0200 <int-e> or against, rather
2023-08-31 02:55:40 +0200 <Inst> bleh, w/e, just idle procrastination
2023-08-31 02:55:47 +0200 <EvanR> try ($!) pure
2023-08-31 02:56:00 +0200 <Inst> :t ($!) pure
2023-08-31 02:56:01 +0200 <lambdabot> Applicative f => a -> f a
2023-08-31 02:56:41 +0200 <Inst> i'd much rather XNoImplicitPrelude be added to GHC2025 or 2030 or something like that
2023-08-31 02:57:21 +0200 <int-e> breaks too much
2023-08-31 03:09:21 +0200 <c_wraith> Why would you want that? NoImplicitPrelude is for incredibly narrow use cases - when you want to change the desugaring of do notation, or something.
2023-08-31 03:09:59 +0200 <EvanR> Inst, shirley you can't be serious
2023-08-31 03:10:56 +0200 <Inst> i'm just nuts, thanks for taking me seriously
2023-08-31 03:11:01 +0200albet70(~xxx@2400:8902::f03c:92ff:fe60:98d8) (Remote host closed the connection)
2023-08-31 03:11:19 +0200 <Inst> NoImplicitPrelude just encourages everyone to roll their own prelude or use some prelude alternative
2023-08-31 03:11:28 +0200 <c_wraith> If you really want to break stuff, add -XOverloadedStrings to GHC2025
2023-08-31 03:11:28 +0200 <Inst> it's a bad idea because it'll encourage community fragmentation
2023-08-31 03:11:56 +0200 <EvanR> haskell is pretty amazing at how much useful stuff is used by most everybody
2023-08-31 03:12:18 +0200FinnElija(~finn_elij@user/finn-elija/x-0085643) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2023-08-31 03:12:31 +0200dolio(~dolio@130.44.134.54) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2023-08-31 03:12:35 +0200 <c_wraith> You don't need -XNoImplicitPrelude to use a custom Prelude. You only need it if you want to change how syntactic constructs that are compiled to calls to Prelude functions work.
2023-08-31 03:13:07 +0200dolio(~dolio@130.44.134.54)
2023-08-31 03:13:24 +0200 <c_wraith> Like, it changes do notation from desugaring to (Prelude.>>) and (Prelude.>>=) into calling whatever (>>) and (>>=) are in scope.
2023-08-31 03:13:37 +0200 <geekosaur> no, that's RebindableSyntax
2023-08-31 03:13:50 +0200 <c_wraith> Hmm. Shoot.
2023-08-31 03:14:41 +0200 <c_wraith> Oh. Right. NoImplicitPrelude just is the hard way to make your own Prelude.
2023-08-31 03:15:11 +0200 <c_wraith> fun fact! the implicit import of Prelude doesn't specify that it has to come from base!
2023-08-31 03:16:16 +0200 <c_wraith> (though if you want to make use of that, you need to make sure only one module named Prelude is in scope...)
2023-08-31 03:16:22 +0200ryanbooker(uid4340@id-4340.hampstead.irccloud.com)
2023-08-31 03:17:09 +0200albet70(~xxx@2400:8902::f03c:92ff:fe60:98d8)
2023-08-31 03:17:53 +0200 <dolio> So if you don't depend directly on base, you can depend on some other package with a Prelude module?
2023-08-31 03:18:10 +0200 <c_wraith> or if you use mixin support to rename base's Prelude module
2023-08-31 03:18:24 +0200 <dolio> Oh.
2023-08-31 03:18:42 +0200dove(~irc@2600:3c00:e000:287::1) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2023-08-31 03:18:55 +0200 <Inst> does anyone actually use par monad?
2023-08-31 03:18:56 +0200 <c_wraith> But yeah, GHC treats the invisible "import Prelude" identically to how it treats any other import
2023-08-31 03:19:28 +0200dove(~irc@2600:3c00:e000:287::1)
2023-08-31 03:21:42 +0200 <c_wraith> Though I suppose for completeness, I should mention that if you *do* want to override do notation, QualifiedDo seems pretty nice.
2023-08-31 03:22:05 +0200 <c_wraith> and is much clearer in terms of scope and function.
2023-08-31 03:23:56 +0200nate2(~nate@c-98-45-169-16.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
2023-08-31 03:24:13 +0200 <Inst> btw, seriously, no one uses par monad here?
2023-08-31 03:24:29 +0200 <Inst> i'm getting zero sparks from it, but performance benchmarks as parallelized
2023-08-31 03:24:57 +0200machinedgod(~machinedg@d198-53-218-113.abhsia.telus.net) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2023-08-31 03:26:58 +0200 <EvanR> now I don't know if I can take you seriously anymore!
2023-08-31 03:28:13 +0200 <int-e> https://hackage.haskell.org/package/monad-par-0.3.5/docs/Control-Monad-Par.html "The default implementation is based on a work-stealing scheduler that divides the work as evenly as possible between the available processors at runtime."
2023-08-31 03:28:21 +0200 <int-e> No sparks.
2023-08-31 03:28:29 +0200FinnElija(~finn_elij@user/finn-elija/x-0085643)
2023-08-31 03:28:31 +0200falafel(~falafel@181.68.6.51.dyn.plus.net) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2023-08-31 03:28:38 +0200 <int-e> But you can switch to a sparks-based implementation by changing the import.
2023-08-31 03:28:42 +0200int-eyawns.
2023-08-31 03:29:03 +0200 <int-e> Inst: Documentation, when available, is your friend.
2023-08-31 03:29:07 +0200nate2(~nate@c-98-45-169-16.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2023-08-31 03:29:29 +0200 <int-e> (No I haven't used that package.)
2023-08-31 03:29:56 +0200 <Axman6> Alex, what is RTFM?
2023-08-31 03:30:06 +0200caryhartline(~caryhartl@168.182.58.169)
2023-08-31 03:30:12 +0200 <int-e> Read The Fine Manual
2023-08-31 03:30:36 +0200 <Axman6> Fine AF
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2023-08-31 03:31:42 +0200jero98772(~jero98772@2800:484:1d84:300::4)
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2023-08-31 03:35:29 +0200 <dolio> Why are sparks bad but work stealing is okay?
2023-08-31 03:36:48 +0200FinnElija(~finn_elij@user/finn-elija/x-0085643) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2023-08-31 03:39:38 +0200FinnElija(~finn_elij@user/finn-elija/x-0085643)
2023-08-31 03:39:56 +0200 <Inst> can I be reasonably expected to manage work stealing? sparks are more under my control, though
2023-08-31 03:40:45 +0200Feuermagier(~Feuermagi@user/feuermagier)
2023-08-31 03:44:21 +0200 <Inst> like, to screw with sparks, i'll deliberately control chunk size, etc
2023-08-31 03:47:46 +0200 <hololeap> curious if anyone has experience with the prettyprinter packge. I'd like to use it to generate a type of file that uses tabs instead of spaces for indentation
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2023-08-31 04:00:48 +0200chexum(~quassel@gateway/tor-sasl/chexum)
2023-08-31 04:01:54 +0200 <Inst> and sorry about not reading the docs, I just assumed Par was an easier interface than Eval, because that's what the book suggested, i.e, it was intended to be simpler and less flexible
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2023-08-31 05:06:32 +0200 <int-e> well that was what it was originally - check out version 0.1 to see
2023-08-31 05:07:51 +0200 <int-e> Err, no, it already had its own scheduler then. I'm confused.
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2023-08-31 06:35:59 +0200Inst(~liamzy@2601:6c4:4085:6d50::bd68)
2023-08-31 06:37:42 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@ool-44c738de.dyn.optonline.net)
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2023-08-31 06:48:30 +0200Vajb(~Vajb@85-76-128-178-nat.elisa-mobile.fi)
2023-08-31 06:56:22 +0200 <Inst> what is the joke?
2023-08-31 06:56:23 +0200 <Inst> https://hackage.haskell.org/package/acme-all-monad
2023-08-31 06:56:31 +0200 <Inst> does Proxy compose?
2023-08-31 06:56:38 +0200 <Inst> *ProxyT
2023-08-31 06:57:09 +0200 <Inst> ah, so this is used in pipes unironically
2023-08-31 06:57:46 +0200 <dolio> This is the terminal monad. So all other monads 'interpret' into it.
2023-08-31 06:58:04 +0200 <Inst> oh wait, not the same thing
2023-08-31 06:59:52 +0200 <dolio> Like, you can make () an instance of all the numeric classes.
2023-08-31 07:00:32 +0200 <dolio> fromInteger _ = (); _ + _ = (); _ / _ = (); pi = (); ...
2023-08-31 07:02:41 +0200hgolden(~hgolden@2603-8000-9d00-3ed1-fc05-5499-f77c-fbe5.res6.spectrum.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
2023-08-31 07:03:39 +0200 <monochrom> Also the simplest compression algorithm is to compress to () or write to /dev/null if no one asks you to uncompress.
2023-08-31 07:03:49 +0200 <dolio> Yep.
2023-08-31 07:04:46 +0200hgolden(~hgolden@2603-8000-9d00-3ed1-fc05-5499-f77c-fbe5.res6.spectrum.com)
2023-08-31 07:06:11 +0200wroathe(~wroathe@user/wroathe) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
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2023-08-31 07:12:59 +0200Inst(~liamzy@2601:6c4:4085:6d50::4272)
2023-08-31 07:13:21 +0200 <Inst> also, I did a bit of thinking, but tbh, I can see why you guys prefer spark-based parallelism to other forums
2023-08-31 07:13:26 +0200 <Inst> *forms
2023-08-31 07:13:37 +0200 <Inst> Spark is perhaps the wrong term, it's closer to rain
2023-08-31 07:14:13 +0200 <Inst> I built a program using Haskell parallelism on sparks a while back, and I just tried multi-threading in other languages. Like you said, theirs is usually a form of concurrency.
2023-08-31 07:14:40 +0200 <dolio> I don't use that stuff enough to have a strong opinion on what is nicest to use. I just didn't understand why your earlier complaints about sparks didn't apply to managing a bunch of work-stealing entries.
2023-08-31 07:14:51 +0200 <Inst> The thing is, the spark system, while often wasteful, can be immensely fine-grained in a way more conventional parallelism is hard pressed to be
2023-08-31 07:15:03 +0200 <Inst> maybe Go or Erlang's green threads
2023-08-31 07:15:15 +0200 <Inst> i had hundreds of thousands of sparks operating at one time
2023-08-31 07:15:22 +0200 <EvanR> that... is what forkIO threads are
2023-08-31 07:15:27 +0200 <EvanR> not sparks
2023-08-31 07:15:44 +0200nate2(~nate@c-98-45-169-16.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
2023-08-31 07:15:56 +0200 <Inst> no, i mean, i had a bunch of data structures with hundreds of thousands to millions of items to evaluate
2023-08-31 07:16:15 +0200 <Inst> i could just spark them all and forget about the details
2023-08-31 07:17:30 +0200 <Inst> am I wrong?
2023-08-31 07:17:37 +0200 <Inst> the way I understand it, sparks work on unevaluated data
2023-08-31 07:18:09 +0200 <EvanR> I mean green threads
2023-08-31 07:18:21 +0200 <Inst> I know forkIO threads are green, I forget how they compare to Erlang's
2023-08-31 07:18:38 +0200 <EvanR> erlang = processes
2023-08-31 07:18:56 +0200 <EvanR> good for concurrency but not parallelism
2023-08-31 07:19:33 +0200 <Inst> the one shame I think is that you can't spark on GPU... or was accelerate capable of doing that?
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2023-08-31 08:09:04 +0200libertyprime(~libertypr@203.96.203.44)
2023-08-31 08:09:16 +0200segfaultfizzbuzz(~segfaultf@23-93-74-212.fiber.dynamic.sonic.net) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
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2023-08-31 08:13:59 +0200Inst(~liamzy@2601:6c4:4085:6d50::4272) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2023-08-31 08:14:51 +0200tromp(~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2023-08-31 08:19:47 +0200idgaen(~idgaen@2a01:e0a:498:fd50:fcc6:bb5d:489a:ce8c) (Quit: WeeChat 4.0.2)
2023-08-31 08:22:53 +0200cafkafk(~cafkafk@fsf/member/cafkafk)
2023-08-31 08:22:56 +0200notzmv(~zmv@user/notzmv) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2023-08-31 08:25:33 +0200coot(~coot@89-69-206-216.dynamic.chello.pl)
2023-08-31 08:25:35 +0200mjrosenb(~mjrosenb@pool-96-232-177-77.nycmny.fios.verizon.net)
2023-08-31 08:25:56 +0200 <mjrosenb> Did ghc change the RNG algorithm recently?
2023-08-31 08:27:26 +0200 <mjrosenb> and by 'RNG algorithm', I mean the thing you get with System.Random.mkStdGen 100000
2023-08-31 08:31:56 +0200 <Axman6> https://hackage.haskell.org/package/random-1.2.1.1/changelog has quite a lot of detail, including what looks like significant changes in 1.2.0
2023-08-31 08:32:35 +0200 <Axman6> "Fixed: changed algorithm to SplitMix, which provides a robust split operation"
2023-08-31 08:34:06 +0200 <Axman6> monochrom: I'm going to file a bug, when I cxompress to () it still takes up 8 bytes! I might submit a PR to target Void to avoid the pointer
2023-08-31 08:37:02 +0200gmg(~user@user/gehmehgeh)
2023-08-31 08:37:47 +0200neuroevolutus(~neuroevol@2a02:6ea0:d20c:2::b71e)
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2023-08-31 09:16:52 +0200 <probie> Axman6: It has to take up at least 8 bytes, since `()` is a lifted type
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2023-08-31 09:44:00 +0200 <Axman6> yeah exactly
2023-08-31 09:44:10 +0200 <Axman6> what a waste
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2023-08-31 13:21:09 +0200merijn(~merijn@088-129-128-083.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2023-08-31 13:33:06 +0200merijn(~merijn@088-129-128-083.dynamic.caiway.nl)
2023-08-31 13:33:19 +0200lzszt(~lzszt@ip-037-024-119-189.um08.pools.vodafone-ip.de)
2023-08-31 13:34:05 +0200danse-nr3_(~francesco@151.43.239.145)
2023-08-31 13:35:04 +0200 <bwe> how to snake case SumType with Aeson? aeson-casing doesn't do the job.
2023-08-31 13:37:18 +0200 <tomsmeding> bwe: if all else fails you could try writing a custom fieldLabelModifier
2023-08-31 13:37:35 +0200merijn(~merijn@088-129-128-083.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2023-08-31 13:39:21 +0200 <bwe> tomsmeding: done.
2023-08-31 13:43:57 +0200tromp(~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
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2023-08-31 14:41:04 +0200danse-nr3_(~francesco@151.43.239.145) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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2023-08-31 15:08:10 +0200wroathe(~wroathe@207-153-38-140.fttp.usinternet.com)
2023-08-31 15:08:10 +0200wroathe(~wroathe@207-153-38-140.fttp.usinternet.com) (Changing host)
2023-08-31 15:08:10 +0200wroathe(~wroathe@user/wroathe)
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2023-08-31 15:20:50 +0200yoyofreeman(~yoyofreem@176.97.76.178)
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2023-08-31 15:24:46 +0200CiaoSen(~Jura@2a05:5800:29a:4600:664b:f0ff:fe37:9ef)
2023-08-31 15:28:14 +0200Vajb(~Vajb@2001:999:50d:84d9:7bf6:f6be:1ebe:85c8) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2023-08-31 15:28:39 +0200 <bwe> how do I map over a list concurrently? I want the equivalent to mapConcurrently for non-IO ops.
2023-08-31 15:32:53 +0200 <lortabac> bwe: there are various libraries for parallelism, all different from each other
2023-08-31 15:33:27 +0200 <lortabac> @hackage monad-par
2023-08-31 15:33:27 +0200 <lambdabot> https://hackage.haskell.org/package/monad-par
2023-08-31 15:33:29 +0200mikoto-chan(~mikoto-ch@ip-83-134-209-157.dsl.scarlet.be) (Quit: WeeChat 3.8)
2023-08-31 15:34:22 +0200 <lortabac> @hackage parallel
2023-08-31 15:34:22 +0200 <lambdabot> https://hackage.haskell.org/package/parallel
2023-08-31 15:34:36 +0200libertyprime(~libertypr@203.96.203.44) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2023-08-31 15:37:26 +0200ec(~ec@gateway/tor-sasl/ec) (Remote host closed the connection)
2023-08-31 15:37:37 +0200 <lortabac> Control.Parallel.Strategies.parMap should do what you are looking for
2023-08-31 15:37:48 +0200 <lortabac> @hackage repa
2023-08-31 15:37:48 +0200 <lambdabot> https://hackage.haskell.org/package/repa
2023-08-31 15:37:52 +0200ec(~ec@gateway/tor-sasl/ec)
2023-08-31 15:38:39 +0200nyc(~nyc@2603-7000-a106-2fb5-0000-0000-0000-1f21.res6.spectrum.com)
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2023-08-31 16:33:12 +0200phma(~phma@2001:5b0:211b:8ab8:276e:326e:f44c:81b4) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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2023-08-31 16:40:23 +0200billchenchina(~billchenc@2a0c:b641:7a2:320:ee3e:47ca:6070:d71a)
2023-08-31 16:40:49 +0200gatekempt(~gatekempt@user/gatekempt) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
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2023-08-31 16:50:31 +0200hrberg(~quassel@171.79-160-161.customer.lyse.net) (Quit: https://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.)
2023-08-31 16:50:53 +0200hrberg(~quassel@171.79-160-161.customer.lyse.net)
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2023-08-31 16:55:17 +0200bitdex(~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex) (Quit: = "")
2023-08-31 16:59:03 +0200pavonia(~user@user/siracusa) (Quit: Bye!)
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2023-08-31 17:41:31 +0200Feuermagier(~Feuermagi@user/feuermagier) (Quit: Leaving)
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2023-08-31 18:22:03 +0200dobblego(~dibblego@haskell/developer/dibblego)
2023-08-31 18:22:17 +0200dibblego(~dibblego@haskell/developer/dibblego) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2023-08-31 18:22:33 +0200dobblegodibblego
2023-08-31 18:27:22 +0200Vajb(~Vajb@85-76-82-193-nat.elisa-mobile.fi)
2023-08-31 18:28:58 +0200shaprhops quietly
2023-08-31 18:35:51 +0200Vajb(~Vajb@85-76-82-193-nat.elisa-mobile.fi) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2023-08-31 18:36:52 +0200merijn(~merijn@088-129-128-083.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2023-08-31 18:37:00 +0200Vajb(~Vajb@2001:999:60c:faff:dfbb:4d75:ed38:18d2)
2023-08-31 18:39:35 +0200thegeekinside(~thegeekin@189.180.81.59) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2023-08-31 18:40:18 +0200thegeekinside(~thegeekin@189.180.94.136)
2023-08-31 18:42:50 +0200vglfr(~vglfr@cli-188-239-241-89.bbn.slav.dn.ua) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2023-08-31 18:43:10 +0200 <Vq> shapr: I barely heard you hopping
2023-08-31 18:43:23 +0200tromp(~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl)
2023-08-31 18:43:25 +0200 <shapr> yay, it was quiet!
2023-08-31 18:43:39 +0200 <Vq> Sure was :)
2023-08-31 18:44:00 +0200adanwan(~adanwan@gateway/tor-sasl/adanwan) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
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2023-08-31 18:55:31 +0200L29Ah(~L29Ah@wikipedia/L29Ah) ()
2023-08-31 18:58:06 +0200eggplantade(~Eggplanta@2600:1700:38c5:d800:c431:f4c7:e475:d84d) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2023-08-31 19:30:55 +0200dobblego(~dibblego@220.233.36.19) (Changing host)
2023-08-31 19:30:55 +0200dobblego(~dibblego@haskell/developer/dibblego)
2023-08-31 19:31:56 +0200dibblego(~dibblego@haskell/developer/dibblego) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2023-08-31 19:31:57 +0200dobblegodibblego
2023-08-31 19:36:20 +0200jinsun_(~jinsun@user/jinsun)
2023-08-31 19:36:20 +0200jinsunGuest951
2023-08-31 19:36:20 +0200Guest951(~jinsun@user/jinsun) (Killed (cadmium.libera.chat (Nickname regained by services)))
2023-08-31 19:36:20 +0200jinsun_jinsun
2023-08-31 19:42:30 +0200grnman_(~michaelsc@c-66-176-3-51.hsd1.fl.comcast.net)
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2023-08-31 19:46:38 +0200fweht(uid404746@id-404746.lymington.irccloud.com)
2023-08-31 19:47:53 +0200 <monochrom> Axman6: Belated but (# #) may be preferable to Void :)
2023-08-31 19:48:57 +0200L29Ah(~L29Ah@wikipedia/L29Ah)
2023-08-31 19:52:06 +0200dhil(~dhil@78.45.150.83.ewm.ftth.as8758.net) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2023-08-31 19:52:54 +0200tromp(~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2023-08-31 19:57:50 +0200merijn(~merijn@088-129-128-083.dynamic.caiway.nl)
2023-08-31 19:59:04 +0200idgaen(~idgaen@2a01:e0a:498:fd50:fcc6:bb5d:489a:ce8c)
2023-08-31 19:59:58 +0200Lycurgus(~juan@user/Lycurgus)
2023-08-31 20:02:06 +0200merijn(~merijn@088-129-128-083.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2023-08-31 20:06:03 +0200 <Lycurgus> glguy, I take it ur not working on an hs irc daemon if ur doin solanum; looks like chris done abandonned one
2023-08-31 20:07:08 +0200ec(~ec@gateway/tor-sasl/ec)
2023-08-31 20:07:08 +0200bratwurst(~blaadsfa@2604:3d09:207f:f650:216:3eff:fe5a:a1f8) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2023-08-31 20:07:29 +0200 <glguy> I've got a Haskell client, I contribute to solanum, and I've got a C++/Lua client/tool
2023-08-31 20:10:07 +0200 <Lycurgus> the Done thing is a sketch he abandoned more than a decade ago as said took 4hrs
2023-08-31 20:10:35 +0200sm(~sm@plaintextaccounting/sm)
2023-08-31 20:10:45 +0200califax(~califax@user/califx)
2023-08-31 20:10:48 +0200 <Lycurgus> *and said
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2023-08-31 20:23:38 +0200[Leary](~Leary]@user/Leary/x-0910699) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2023-08-31 20:35:10 +0200gabriel_sevecek(~gabriel@188-167-229-200.dynamic.chello.sk)
2023-08-31 20:36:11 +0200 <ncf> hey glguy can your toml parser decode `foo = { "bar" = "baz" }` to a `data Config = { foo :: Map Text Text } deriving Generic` without me having to fill any paperwork and without leaving the quotes in "bar" unstripped
2023-08-31 20:36:19 +0200 <ncf> because that is apparently too much to ask of tomland
2023-08-31 20:37:57 +0200 <glguy> Leaving quotes in bar?
2023-08-31 20:38:10 +0200 <ncf> yeah it parses the key as "\"bar\""
2023-08-31 20:38:39 +0200dcoutts(~duncan@cpc69402-oxfd27-2-0-cust903.4-3.cable.virginm.net)
2023-08-31 20:39:06 +0200 <glguy> And if you remove the ""s in the toml input it changes the output??
2023-08-31 20:39:29 +0200 <ncf> yes
2023-08-31 20:39:34 +0200 <ncf> i've reported the issue
2023-08-31 20:39:37 +0200 <glguy> Oh, you should
2023-08-31 20:39:39 +0200 <glguy> Yeah
2023-08-31 20:40:23 +0200 <glguy> I think toml-parser handles this, testing
2023-08-31 20:40:51 +0200ski(~ski@88.131.7.247) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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2023-08-31 20:42:36 +0200briandaed(~briandaed@185.234.210.211)
2023-08-31 20:43:13 +0200tromp(~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2023-08-31 20:43:27 +0200gabriel_sevecek(~gabriel@188-167-229-200.dynamic.chello.sk) (Quit: WeeChat 4.0.4)
2023-08-31 20:44:15 +0200gabriel_sevecek(~gabriel@188-167-229-200.dynamic.chello.sk)
2023-08-31 20:44:47 +0200califax(~califax@user/califx)
2023-08-31 20:44:48 +0200 <glguy> ncf: https://gist.github.com/glguy/03fb16d7ad91d0d294d857459168e9a7
2023-08-31 20:45:45 +0200 <ncf> fantastic
2023-08-31 20:47:25 +0200 <nyc> What does it mean for ExitSuccess to be raised as an exception & how do I find where it came from?
2023-08-31 20:48:42 +0200 <geekosaur> it's an exception because there's no other way for a Haskell program to transfer control non-locally. The RTS catches it, does cleanup, and `exit(0)`
2023-08-31 20:49:30 +0200 <geekosaur> it should be possible to use +RTS -xc to see where it is raised (this requires compiling with profiling)
2023-08-31 20:50:50 +0200 <EvanR> if you find the library throwing that, name names
2023-08-31 20:50:56 +0200 <geekosaur> (well, the RTS could just grab it directly but then nothing else gets to do cleanup)
2023-08-31 20:51:33 +0200 <monochrom> System.Exit.exitWith is implemented by throwing an exception, even if it's success.
2023-08-31 20:51:38 +0200 <geekosaur> and yes, regardless of language it's very bad form for a library to exit instead of returning some kind of "I'm done" code
2023-08-31 20:51:40 +0200 <monochrom> exitSuccess likewise.
2023-08-31 20:51:58 +0200aaronv(~aaronv@user/aaronv)
2023-08-31 20:52:02 +0200caryhartline(~caryhartl@168.182.58.169)
2023-08-31 20:52:05 +0200 <monochrom> But normally you wouldn't observe the difference unless in ghci
2023-08-31 20:52:12 +0200 <EvanR> I exit my own success thank you very much
2023-08-31 20:53:02 +0200 <monochrom> OK yeah libraries deciding to terminate your program are a little bit too presumptive.
2023-08-31 20:53:13 +0200 <monochrom> But programmers are control freaks.
2023-08-31 20:54:19 +0200 <monochrom> When I was on BBSes, every childish programmer were like "I want to write a program that reboots the user's computer".
2023-08-31 20:54:29 +0200wroathe(~wroathe@207-153-38-140.fttp.usinternet.com)
2023-08-31 20:54:29 +0200wroathe(~wroathe@207-153-38-140.fttp.usinternet.com) (Changing host)
2023-08-31 20:54:30 +0200wroathe(~wroathe@user/wroathe)
2023-08-31 20:56:19 +0200tromp(~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl)
2023-08-31 20:57:53 +0200 <geekosaur> anyway, if you do catch it the correct thing to do is re-throw after doing any resource cleanup you might need to do (e.g. rollback and close a database)
2023-08-31 20:58:17 +0200 <nyc> I think what I'm seeing is a rendered form of the exception coming in over a socket that a thread of whatever's on the other end of it.
2023-08-31 20:58:37 +0200robosexual(~spaceoyst@5.165.11.54) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2023-08-31 20:58:47 +0200 <EvanR> rebooting is weak. Have the CD-ROM drive tray randomly deploy and retract
2023-08-31 20:59:02 +0200kenran(~user@user/kenran) (Remote host closed the connection)
2023-08-31 20:59:17 +0200kenran(~user@user/kenran)
2023-08-31 20:59:28 +0200 <geekosaur> not sure about monochrom's age, but when I was on BBSes there were no CDROMs
2023-08-31 20:59:41 +0200 <EvanR> ok laserdisc
2023-08-31 20:59:43 +0200 <nyc> Some layer is catching it & rendering it & now I have to go chase down where it happened.
2023-08-31 20:59:49 +0200 <geekosaur> or laserdiscs
2023-08-31 21:00:59 +0200 <monochrom> Yeah BBSes and CDROMs were pretty much mutually exclusive :)
2023-08-31 21:01:13 +0200 <monochrom> haha laserdisc OK
2023-08-31 21:02:02 +0200 <nyc> I was never on BBS's, though I was vaguely aware of their existence. I saw TRS-80's & Atari 2600's & Commodore PET's etc.
2023-08-31 21:02:41 +0200 <nyc> Apples were out there but I didn't see them as much for no obvious reason.
2023-08-31 21:02:44 +0200 <monochrom> Well at least you didn't say "why were people on BBSes instead of Facebook" hehe
2023-08-31 21:02:47 +0200 <erisco> so, punch cards, right? well what if we made the holes really small and spun it around real fast
2023-08-31 21:03:31 +0200 <erisco> a true faster horse
2023-08-31 21:04:09 +0200 <nyc> I was aware of FidoNet & UUCPNET but also didn't personally use them when they were live.
2023-08-31 21:04:13 +0200 <geekosaur> my parents' entertainment center had an 8-track player
2023-08-31 21:05:18 +0200 <ncf> glguy: i think toml-parser is missing a function of type FromValue a => Value -> Result String a ?
2023-08-31 21:05:19 +0200 <geekosaur> with that charming KerCHUNK! when it switched tracks
2023-08-31 21:05:36 +0200 <monochrom> Floppy diskettes also had a whole for the drive to optically know it is hitting sector 0. (Later, it was no longer used, but still stayed for a while.)
2023-08-31 21:05:47 +0200 <monochrom> s/whole/hole/
2023-08-31 21:05:50 +0200 <ncf> (i want to parse values from a bunch of places, merge them, and then deserialise the result)
2023-08-31 21:06:18 +0200 <ncf> also, maybe a Monad instance for Result e?
2023-08-31 21:06:22 +0200eggplantade(~Eggplanta@2600:1700:38c5:d800:c431:f4c7:e475:d84d)
2023-08-31 21:06:25 +0200 <geekosaur> oh, those newfangled ones? (unlike hard-sectored floppies which had a hole for each sector)
2023-08-31 21:06:36 +0200 <geekosaur> I apparently just missed those
2023-08-31 21:06:39 +0200 <monochrom> haha
2023-08-31 21:06:39 +0200merijn(~merijn@088-129-128-083.dynamic.caiway.nl)
2023-08-31 21:07:02 +0200 <monochrom> Yeah now I remember someone said there used to be like 8 holes for 8 sectors.
2023-08-31 21:07:17 +0200 <nyc> geekosaur: I remember 8-tracks too. My dad's Plymouth Gran Fury station wagon originally had an 8-track player in it, but I think he got it changed out for an aftermarket cassette player before he ended up trading it in for something else.
2023-08-31 21:09:08 +0200 <glguy> ncf: isn't that something like runMatcher . fromValue ?
2023-08-31 21:09:36 +0200 <ncf> plus error printing
2023-08-31 21:09:42 +0200 <monochrom> When I started using computers, it was already Apple IIe and 5.25-inch floppies, so there is a lot of history of 8-inch floppies that I have only heard of then forgot.
2023-08-31 21:10:36 +0200wroathe(~wroathe@user/wroathe) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2023-08-31 21:11:01 +0200 <monochrom> OK ObHaskell: Haskell is why I don't root for travelling back to the past. How am I supposed to run Haskell on an Apple II ???!!!!
2023-08-31 21:11:02 +0200 <glguy> ncf: the Matcher is the place that error routing happens
2023-08-31 21:11:15 +0200 <ncf> i'm thinking there should be a ToValue class that parses Strings or Texts and does nothing to Values, à la Aeson
2023-08-31 21:11:17 +0200 <geekosaur> I'd been working with TRS-80 Model I and 3 which had 5¼ inch floppies, then became involved with "big iron" — a TRS-80 Model 16 running Xenix. WIth 8" floppies
2023-08-31 21:11:21 +0200xmachina(~xmachina@modemcable048.127-56-74.mc.videotron.ca) (Quit: WeeChat 4.0.4)
2023-08-31 21:11:26 +0200 <geekosaur> I got to do backups for it for a while
2023-08-31 21:11:50 +0200 <geekosaur> lots of floppy shuffling, since for all their physical size they didn't hold much
2023-08-31 21:11:54 +0200 <glguy> ncf: there is a ToValue class
2023-08-31 21:11:59 +0200 <nyc> Hmm, something else is saying it blocked indefinitely in an MVar operation.
2023-08-31 21:12:12 +0200 <ncf> oh
2023-08-31 21:12:23 +0200 <[exa]> geekosaur: as a kid I was puzzled how come the 3.5" hold like 5x more data than 8", all math failed
2023-08-31 21:12:26 +0200 <glguy> ncf: I'm open to extensions if you can build an example use case I've not covered
2023-08-31 21:12:28 +0200tromp(~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2023-08-31 21:12:36 +0200 <ncf> ok
2023-08-31 21:13:14 +0200xmachina(~xmachina@modemcable048.127-56-74.mc.videotron.ca)
2023-08-31 21:13:20 +0200grnman_(~michaelsc@c-66-176-3-51.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2023-08-31 21:14:28 +0200 <nyc> I don't remember ever seeing Xenix back in the day. At that point in time I didn't see them as much more than sort of overgrown combinations of typewriters & calculators.
2023-08-31 21:14:41 +0200 <erisco> [exa], I am puzzled today how 1TB can fit in a piece of plastic the size of my pinky nail
2023-08-31 21:14:44 +0200 <glguy> I think the library can do the things you've said so far, but perhaps not as seemlessly as we might want or maybe the documentation just needs to be elaborated
2023-08-31 21:15:10 +0200 <[exa]> erisco: atoms are many
2023-08-31 21:15:31 +0200 <EvanR> avagadro's number
2023-08-31 21:15:33 +0200 <monochrom> geekosaur: Does the computer also offer saving files to an audio jack (intended for cassette tapes)? Because you could connect that to a modern computer and save it on any modern medium. Even a WAV file on a 512GB USB stick beats fiddling with old floppies.
2023-08-31 21:15:46 +0200 <erisco> apparently atoms are getting too large for modern electronicals though :P
2023-08-31 21:16:01 +0200 <geekosaur> the Mod 16 didn't. my personal machine back then did though, and that was explicit
2023-08-31 21:16:01 +0200 <EvanR> avagardos number is an integer expressed as a float, chew on that for a minute
2023-08-31 21:16:02 +0200 <ncf> yeah runMatch returns a Result MatchMessage but i want a Result String
2023-08-31 21:16:03 +0200albet70(~xxx@2400:8902::f03c:92ff:fe60:98d8) (Remote host closed the connection)
2023-08-31 21:16:06 +0200 <ncf> runMatcher*
2023-08-31 21:16:23 +0200 <EvanR> ok, it could fit in a double, not that weird
2023-08-31 21:16:44 +0200 <monochrom> I still have to resume my hobby project of decoding (demodulating) such an audio file.
2023-08-31 21:16:45 +0200 <geekosaur> except I didn't have a case, just a bare motherboard, so in fact it was just a pair of bell wires I stuck in holes 🙂
2023-08-31 21:17:15 +0200tcard_(~tcard@2400:4051:5801:7500:cf17:befc:ff82:5303)
2023-08-31 21:17:16 +0200 <monochrom> haha
2023-08-31 21:17:53 +0200 <geekosaur> TRS-80 Model I at school, OSI SuperBoard II at home, TRS-80 Mod 16 downtown that I used via modem and helped out with occasionally in person
2023-08-31 21:17:59 +0200tcard(~tcard@2400:4051:5801:7500:cf17:befc:ff82:5303) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2023-08-31 21:18:27 +0200 <monochrom> ObHaskell I did wrote my own FFT in Haskell using the vector library.
2023-08-31 21:18:50 +0200 <monochrom> Not fast or optimized. I just felt like writing my own.
2023-08-31 21:19:14 +0200 <geekosaur> cassette interface on the SUperBoard was none too reliable, the system clock tick took noticeable amounts of time that interfered with audio encoding/decoding
2023-08-31 21:19:45 +0200 <glguy> ncf: you can get one today with: https://hackage.haskell.org/package/toml-parser-1.3.0.0/docs/Toml-Pretty.html#v:prettyMatchMessage
2023-08-31 21:20:17 +0200 <glguy> that doesn't preclude us from adding new helper functions, but you can do what you want with the current version
2023-08-31 21:20:22 +0200 <nyc> It would be easier to debug this if it weren't being caught & reported over some network socket.
2023-08-31 21:21:02 +0200 <dolio> EvanR: Quite a lot of floating point numbers are integers.
2023-08-31 21:22:10 +0200albet70(~xxx@2400:8902::f03c:92ff:fe60:98d8)
2023-08-31 21:23:19 +0200 <glguy> ncf: what are you doing that has you stitching together TOML documents before you process them?
2023-08-31 21:23:34 +0200segfaultfizzbuzz(~segfaultf@23-93-74-212.fiber.dynamic.sonic.net)
2023-08-31 21:25:26 +0200 <ncf> glguy: trying to split my config into a public part i can commit into git and a secret part i can store encrypted and decrypt with sops-nix
2023-08-31 21:25:43 +0200 <ncf> probably should just use environment variables for the secrets
2023-08-31 21:25:56 +0200 <ncf> i feel like i'm reinventing the wheel ;_;
2023-08-31 21:26:11 +0200 <glguy> ncf: I would have expected you to parse those two separately and get a PublicConfig and a PrivateConfig, or something
2023-08-31 21:26:24 +0200 <glguy> rather than merging them as TOML first and then processing them
2023-08-31 21:26:29 +0200tromp(~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl)
2023-08-31 21:26:32 +0200 <ncf> idk that seems like a distinction my software shouldn't have to care about
2023-08-31 21:26:37 +0200 <ncf> the user decides what is private
2023-08-31 21:27:42 +0200 <glguy> order matters in toml, so it just seems tricky to stitch
2023-08-31 21:27:47 +0200 <ncf> yeah
2023-08-31 21:28:45 +0200 <ncf> i think yaml is "concatenative" in that way, but i really don't like yaml :|
2023-08-31 21:30:51 +0200szkl(uid110435@id-110435.uxbridge.irccloud.com)
2023-08-31 21:31:34 +0200 <glguy> You could do the merger at a single Config type?
2023-08-31 21:31:53 +0200 <ncf> i don't want to Maybe every field
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2023-08-31 21:36:09 +0200 <monochrom> Hrm, docker docs have some discussion on how to do private secret contains-password-must-not-leak configs.
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2023-08-31 21:39:30 +0200 <glguy> ncf: well the Value stitching ought to work, it just wasn't an application I'd considered
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2023-08-31 23:01:08 +0200 <phma> I think I should submit a bug about the speed of a particular kind of operation on unboxed arrays.
2023-08-31 23:01:58 +0200zer0bitz(~zer0bitz@user/zer0bitz) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2023-08-31 23:02:29 +0200 <phma> I've found the GitLab site with the issues. Do I put all the code needed to reproduce it in one file, then create an issue?
2023-08-31 23:02:49 +0200bratwurst(~blaadsfa@2604:3d09:207f:f650:216:3eff:fe5a:a1f8)
2023-08-31 23:02:58 +0200 <geekosaur> probably you want to ask in #ghc, but generally yes
2023-08-31 23:03:04 +0200kenran(~user@user/kenran) (Remote host closed the connection)
2023-08-31 23:03:24 +0200 <phma> okay
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