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| 2023-07-16 00:14:41 +0000 | sm[i] | (~sm@024-165-041-186.res.spectrum.com) (Quit: sm[i]) |
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| 2023-07-16 00:36:01 +0000 | alexbiehl | (~alexbiehl@ip4d14fda4.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) |
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| 2023-07-16 00:51:27 +0000 | <arahael_> | I'm trying to understand the Reader monad, but what confuses me is the 'local' function. Doesn't local effectively make it into a sort of simpler state monad instead? |
| 2023-07-16 00:53:32 +0000 | alexbiehl | (~alexbiehl@2a02:8108:323f:ca14:adeb:5d31:3c95:b332) |
| 2023-07-16 00:55:58 +0000 | <c_wraith> | arahael_: not really. local is a scoped change to the state. State makes non-scoped changes. Like if you call `modify (+1)', everything after that sees the change. With `local (+1) m', only the action `m' sees the changed value |
| 2023-07-16 00:58:18 +0000 | alexbiehl | (~alexbiehl@2a02:8108:323f:ca14:adeb:5d31:3c95:b332) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) |
| 2023-07-16 00:59:55 +0000 | NinjaTrappeur | (~ninja@user/ninjatrappeur) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2023-07-16 01:00:20 +0000 | NinjaTrappeur | (~ninja@user/ninjatrappeur) |
| 2023-07-16 01:01:29 +0000 | <arahael_> | c_wraith: Oooh, nice. |
| 2023-07-16 01:03:17 +0000 | <c_wraith> | In some sense, you want State precisely when you want the changes to propagate non-locally |
| 2023-07-16 01:04:08 +0000 | <arahael_> | Yeah, makes sense, I'm not fully clear as to why state uses `s -> (a, s)`, couldn't it just be `s -> s` like the Reader monad? Like, put would replace the state, and get just gets teh state? |
| 2023-07-16 01:05:28 +0000 | alexbiehl | (~alexbiehl@2a02:8108:323f:ca14:adeb:5d31:3c95:b332) |
| 2023-07-16 01:05:29 +0000 | <c_wraith> | Hmm. This isn't completely the easiest thing to justify without spending some time thinking about it. |
| 2023-07-16 01:06:01 +0000 | <c_wraith> | It mostly comes down to wanting to be able to calculate some value alongside the state that's being passed along |
| 2023-07-16 01:06:03 +0000 | <arahael_> | Perhaps I should try making a state monad using the reader monad and see what doesn't work well with it. |
| 2023-07-16 01:06:11 +0000 | <arahael_> | c_wraith: Hmm? |
| 2023-07-16 01:06:21 +0000 | <arahael_> | Oooh... That makes sense, actually... |
| 2023-07-16 01:06:30 +0000 | gnalzo | (~gnalzo@2a01:e0a:498:fd50:fcc6:bb5d:489a:ce8c) (Quit: WeeChat 4.0.1) |
| 2023-07-16 01:06:42 +0000 | <c_wraith> | Like if you have a `State Int String' action.. You need to be able to communicate modifications to the Int as well as the generated String |
| 2023-07-16 01:06:42 +0000 | <arahael_> | So you can define little calculation routines that return a value, and still allow composing them. |
| 2023-07-16 01:07:02 +0000 | <c_wraith> | yes |
| 2023-07-16 01:07:14 +0000 | <arahael_> | Hmm, but Reader also has a value result, effectively. |
| 2023-07-16 01:07:30 +0000 | <arahael_> | (Ie, `Reader Int String`) |
| 2023-07-16 01:07:55 +0000 | <c_wraith> | True. And that's why `Reader r a' is a wrapper around `r -> a' |
| 2023-07-16 01:09:09 +0000 | <c_wraith> | But I think you're right - just use them a bit and see what they're good at |
| 2023-07-16 01:09:34 +0000 | <c_wraith> | (and not good at) |
| 2023-07-16 01:09:41 +0000 | alexbiehl | (~alexbiehl@2a02:8108:323f:ca14:adeb:5d31:3c95:b332) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
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| 2023-07-16 01:16:06 +0000 | phma | (~phma@host-67-44-208-34.hnremote.net) |
| 2023-07-16 01:17:02 +0000 | albet70 | (~xxx@2400:8902::f03c:92ff:fe60:98d8) |
| 2023-07-16 01:17:40 +0000 | <probie> | The data types `Reader s (a, s)` and `State s a` are isomorphic |
| 2023-07-16 01:19:58 +0000 | <arahael_> | probie: I'm interpreting that to mean 'equivalent', but they're still different because why would you have distinctions between State and Reader otherwise? |
| 2023-07-16 01:20:50 +0000 | neuroevolutus | (~neuroevol@2001:ac8:9a:76::1e) |
| 2023-07-16 01:20:54 +0000 | <arahael_> | I just cut&pasted my State monad implementation, and replaced it as naively as possible with the Reader implementation. I'm noticing the most significant difference is in the implementation of the Applicative `liftA2` function where it's reusing the same state all the time instead of threading the new, modified state through. |
| 2023-07-16 01:21:05 +0000 | <arahael_> | (Becuase that state is not modified in Reader) |
| 2023-07-16 01:21:32 +0000 | <arahael_> | So that makes sense, actually. |
| 2023-07-16 01:22:00 +0000 | <probie> | arahael_: I mean that there's a function from `Reader s (a, s) -> State s a`, and a function from `State s a -> Reader s (a, s)`, and that when these two functions are composed in either order we get `id` |
| 2023-07-16 01:22:39 +0000 | alexbiehl | (~alexbiehl@2a02:8108:323f:ca14:adeb:5d31:3c95:b332) |
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| 2023-07-16 01:23:06 +0000 | nate2 | (~nate@c-98-45-169-16.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 2023-07-16 01:24:40 +0000 | <arahael_> | probie: Ah, yes, that makes sense too but the behaviour of those monads are somehow slightly different and that was what I was trying to figure out before my little experiment writing State in terms of Reader, where I learnt that liftA2 has the most significant impact. |
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| 2023-07-16 02:30:19 +0000 | neuroevolutus | (~neuroevol@2001:ac8:9a:76::1e) (Quit: Client closed) |
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| 2023-07-16 02:39:30 +0000 | dibblego | (~dibblego@116-255-1-157.ip4.superloop.au) (Changing host) |
| 2023-07-16 02:39:30 +0000 | dibblego | (~dibblego@haskell/developer/dibblego) |
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| 2023-07-16 02:43:41 +0000 | rustisafungus | (~segfaultf@23-93-74-212.fiber.dynamic.sonic.net) (Quit: rustisafungus) |
| 2023-07-16 02:45:13 +0000 | Psybur | (~Psybur@c-76-123-45-25.hsd1.va.comcast.net) |
| 2023-07-16 02:55:34 +0000 | finn_elija | (~finn_elij@user/finn-elija/x-0085643) |
| 2023-07-16 02:55:34 +0000 | FinnElija | (~finn_elij@user/finn-elija/x-0085643) (Killed (NickServ (Forcing logout FinnElija -> finn_elija))) |
| 2023-07-16 02:55:34 +0000 | finn_elija | FinnElija |
| 2023-07-16 02:57:03 +0000 | <arahael_> | I'm reading about Fix, and see this expression: data Fix f = Fix (f (Fix f)); but if the fix point of a function is "f x = x", how did we end up with "f x = f (x (f x))"? |
| 2023-07-16 02:57:56 +0000 | <mauke> | first you've got to distinguish between data constructors and type constructors, even if they have the same name |
| 2023-07-16 02:58:17 +0000 | <mauke> | data Fix f = MkFix (f (Fix f)) |
| 2023-07-16 02:58:41 +0000 | <mauke> | which is more like fix f = f (fix f) |
| 2023-07-16 02:59:31 +0000 | <mauke> | second, f x = x is not a definition of fix; it's a definition of id |
| 2023-07-16 03:01:45 +0000 | rembo10 | (~rembo10@main.remulis.com) (Quit: ZNC 1.8.2 - https://znc.in) |
| 2023-07-16 03:03:54 +0000 | <arahael_> | mauke: The wikibooks I'm reading states that: A fixed point of a function f is a value a such that f a == a. |
| 2023-07-16 03:04:44 +0000 | <mauke> | correct |
| 2023-07-16 03:04:58 +0000 | aforemny_ | (~aforemny@2001:9e8:6cf7:a100:5893:6a08:1072:daeb) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) |
| 2023-07-16 03:05:02 +0000 | aforemny | (~aforemny@2001:9e8:6cdd:b600:e052:88e1:fcdc:3d9) |
| 2023-07-16 03:05:24 +0000 | rembo10 | (~rembo10@main.remulis.com) |
| 2023-07-16 03:05:26 +0000 | <mauke> | but 'fix' is a function for computing the fixed point of another function, f |
| 2023-07-16 03:05:29 +0000 | bratwurst | (~dfadsva@2604:3d09:207f:f650::c680) |
| 2023-07-16 03:05:55 +0000 | <mauke> | (and by "the fixed point" I mean the least defined of all fixed points of f) |
| 2023-07-16 03:07:15 +0000 | alexbiehl | (~alexbiehl@2a02:8108:323f:ca14:adeb:5d31:3c95:b332) |
| 2023-07-16 03:07:33 +0000 | <mauke> | and the implementation of 'fix' in haskell is (morally equivalent to): fix f = f (fix f) |
| 2023-07-16 03:07:37 +0000 | <arahael_> | Yeah ,I understand how there are different fixpoints depending on the function we're talking about, though I don't understand what it means by "least defined". (Because that wikibooks article states that 'bottom' is the least defined fixpoint of the example function, but it's the *only* one in that example... ANyway, I'm goimg to ask about that later. |
| 2023-07-16 03:08:08 +0000 | <mauke> | well, consider a function like id x = x |
| 2023-07-16 03:08:15 +0000 | <mauke> | every single value is a fixed point of id |
| 2023-07-16 03:08:24 +0000 | <arahael_> | Indeed. So you want the "least defined" one. |
| 2023-07-16 03:08:42 +0000 | <mauke> | yes, which is 'undefined' (a.k.a. bottom) |
| 2023-07-16 03:09:14 +0000 | <arahael_> | oooh, so you'd still say that the fix point of that is bottom. But... Isn't that like the fix point of almost any function? |
| 2023-07-16 03:09:23 +0000 | <mauke> | correct |
| 2023-07-16 03:09:30 +0000 | <arahael_> | So that seems... Useless? |
| 2023-07-16 03:09:52 +0000 | <mauke> | no, consider f = (1 :) |
| 2023-07-16 03:09:57 +0000 | <mauke> | the function that prepends 1 to a list |
| 2023-07-16 03:10:09 +0000 | <mauke> | bottom is not a fixed point of f |
| 2023-07-16 03:10:32 +0000 | <mauke> | (at least in Haskell it isn't because Haskell is lazy) |
| 2023-07-16 03:11:21 +0000 | <mauke> | > fix (1 :) |
| 2023-07-16 03:11:22 +0000 | <lambdabot> | [1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1... |
| 2023-07-16 03:11:29 +0000 | alexbiehl | (~alexbiehl@2a02:8108:323f:ca14:adeb:5d31:3c95:b332) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2023-07-16 03:12:47 +0000 | <arahael_> | Ok, bottom is not actually always a fix point, so that sounds much more useful then. But still, how do you get from "need to find the point where f = f x" to "fix f = f ( fix f )"? |
| 2023-07-16 03:12:47 +0000 | <mauke> | but even in non-lazy settings you can get interesting fixed points because of higher-order functions |
| 2023-07-16 03:12:53 +0000 | dobblego | (~dibblego@116-255-1-157.ip4.superloop.au) |
| 2023-07-16 03:12:53 +0000 | dobblego | (~dibblego@116-255-1-157.ip4.superloop.au) (Changing host) |
| 2023-07-16 03:12:53 +0000 | dobblego | (~dibblego@haskell/developer/dibblego) |
| 2023-07-16 03:13:28 +0000 | kupi | (uid212005@id-212005.hampstead.irccloud.com) |
| 2023-07-16 03:13:50 +0000 | dibblego | (~dibblego@haskell/developer/dibblego) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) |
| 2023-07-16 03:13:50 +0000 | dobblego | dibblego |
| 2023-07-16 03:14:39 +0000 | <mauke> | I don't remember how to do this the right way |
| 2023-07-16 03:14:55 +0000 | <mauke> | but in Haskell you can literally say: fix f = x where x = f x |
| 2023-07-16 03:15:03 +0000 | <mauke> | which is pretty much the definition of a fixed point |
| 2023-07-16 03:16:19 +0000 | <arahael_> | Hmm, so I guess we expand that out to: fix f = f (f x) where x = f x? And then... |
| 2023-07-16 03:16:28 +0000 | <mauke> | and from there you can do creative substitutions, like fix f = f x where x = f x |
| 2023-07-16 03:16:59 +0000 | <mauke> | and then the first x gets replaced by 'fix f' from the first equation? something like that |
| 2023-07-16 03:17:01 +0000 | <arahael_> | Ah, and of course, since x is the same definition, so you back-substituate that 'fix f = f x' into that. |
| 2023-07-16 03:17:06 +0000 | <arahael_> | Yeah, ok, so that works. |
| 2023-07-16 03:18:01 +0000 | <arahael_> | So we get fix f = f (fix f), which is exactly the same as: data Fix f = Fix (f (Fix f)); but at the type level. |
| 2023-07-16 03:18:35 +0000 | <mauke> | we could start by saying type Fix f = f (Fix f), but that doesn't work because type aliases cannot be recursive |
| 2023-07-16 03:18:54 +0000 | <mauke> | so we have to use newtype or data, which in turn requires adding a data constructor to the RHS |
| 2023-07-16 03:18:56 +0000 | nate2 | (~nate@c-98-45-169-16.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) |
| 2023-07-16 03:19:05 +0000 | <arahael_> | It's nice when these things are so simple, but... Somehow... I just don't find myself thinking that way, so I don't seem to find myself making the leap of "fix f = x where x = f x" |
| 2023-07-16 03:20:36 +0000 | <arahael_> | Oh, yeah, speakingof those data constructors, I often interpret Fix f = MkFix f (MkFix f); but that's not correct, it's going to be: Fix f = MkFix (Fix f) |
| 2023-07-16 03:21:01 +0000 | <arahael_> | Yeah, that makes sense. |
| 2023-07-16 03:21:18 +0000 | <arahael_> | Because I can't actually specify specific constructors in the type declaration like that, so has to be the latter example. |
| 2023-07-16 03:21:52 +0000 | notzmv | (~zmv@user/notzmv) |
| 2023-07-16 03:23:02 +0000 | <arahael_> | Thanks - I gotta head out, but thanks for helping me understand fix. :D At least this aspect of it! |
| 2023-07-16 03:23:42 +0000 | <mauke> | you're welcome :-) |
| 2023-07-16 03:28:30 +0000 | ddellacosta | (~ddellacos@143.244.47.100) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2023-07-16 03:32:18 +0000 | arahael_ | (~arahael@124-149-31-4.dyn.iinet.net.au) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2023-07-16 03:35:11 +0000 | codaraxis | (~codaraxis@user/codaraxis) (Quit: Leaving) |
| 2023-07-16 03:36:27 +0000 | pickleju1ce | (~root@172.56.220.98) |
| 2023-07-16 03:37:38 +0000 | picklejuice | (~root@c-73-196-164-60.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2023-07-16 03:38:19 +0000 | trev | (~trev@user/trev) |
| 2023-07-16 03:40:54 +0000 | ddellacosta | (~ddellacos@143.244.47.100) |
| 2023-07-16 03:40:55 +0000 | pickleju1ce | (~root@172.56.220.98) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2023-07-16 03:42:13 +0000 | picklejuice | (~root@c-73-196-164-60.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) |
| 2023-07-16 03:43:55 +0000 | arahael_ | (~arahael@124-149-31-4.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 2023-07-16 03:49:41 +0000 | ddellacosta | (~ddellacos@143.244.47.100) (Quit: WeeChat 3.8) |
| 2023-07-16 03:54:53 +0000 | dibblego | (~dibblego@haskell/developer/dibblego) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2023-07-16 03:55:46 +0000 | pointlessslippe1 | (~pointless@212.82.82.3) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) |
| 2023-07-16 03:56:54 +0000 | arahael_ | (~arahael@124-149-31-4.dyn.iinet.net.au) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) |
| 2023-07-16 04:00:56 +0000 | dibblego | (~dibblego@116-255-1-157.ip4.superloop.au) |
| 2023-07-16 04:00:56 +0000 | dibblego | (~dibblego@116-255-1-157.ip4.superloop.au) (Changing host) |
| 2023-07-16 04:00:56 +0000 | dibblego | (~dibblego@haskell/developer/dibblego) |
| 2023-07-16 04:01:48 +0000 | aforemny_ | (~aforemny@i59F516F8.versanet.de) |
| 2023-07-16 04:03:14 +0000 | aforemny | (~aforemny@2001:9e8:6cdd:b600:e052:88e1:fcdc:3d9) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) |
| 2023-07-16 04:12:16 +0000 | arahael_ | (~arahael@124-149-31-4.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 2023-07-16 04:12:23 +0000 | Inst__ | (~Inst@2601:6c4:4081:2fc0:807d:5027:e417:fe65) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2023-07-16 04:14:29 +0000 | hgolden | (~hgolden@2603-8000-9d00-3ed1-7b72-5998-97ad-985d.res6.spectrum.com) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2023-07-16 04:15:03 +0000 | falafel | (~falafel@2603-7000-a700-8710-852b-5524-3f51-1682.res6.spectrum.com) |
| 2023-07-16 04:17:23 +0000 | hgolden | (~hgolden@2603-8000-9d00-3ed1-7b72-5998-97ad-985d.res6.spectrum.com) |
| 2023-07-16 04:17:28 +0000 | [itchyjunk] | (~itchyjunk@user/itchyjunk/x-7353470) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2023-07-16 04:17:31 +0000 | arahael_ | (~arahael@124-149-31-4.dyn.iinet.net.au) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 2023-07-16 04:22:43 +0000 | alexbiehl | (~alexbiehl@2a02:8108:323f:ca14:adeb:5d31:3c95:b332) |
| 2023-07-16 04:23:26 +0000 | hugo | (znc@verdigris.lysator.liu.se) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2023-07-16 04:24:08 +0000 | elkcl | (~elkcl@broadband-95-84-180-37.ip.moscow.rt.ru) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) |
| 2023-07-16 04:24:48 +0000 | arahael_ | (~arahael@124-149-31-4.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 2023-07-16 04:27:18 +0000 | alexbiehl | (~alexbiehl@2a02:8108:323f:ca14:adeb:5d31:3c95:b332) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) |
| 2023-07-16 04:29:02 +0000 | hgolden | (~hgolden@2603-8000-9d00-3ed1-7b72-5998-97ad-985d.res6.spectrum.com) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2023-07-16 04:30:28 +0000 | arahael_ | (~arahael@124-149-31-4.dyn.iinet.net.au) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) |
| 2023-07-16 04:31:29 +0000 | shapr | (~user@2600:1700:c640:3100:4f0f:f85d:8c2f:2e77) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2023-07-16 04:32:28 +0000 | hugo | (znc@verdigris.lysator.liu.se) |
| 2023-07-16 04:33:25 +0000 | hgolden | (~hgolden@2603-8000-9d00-3ed1-7b72-5998-97ad-985d.res6.spectrum.com) |
| 2023-07-16 04:34:20 +0000 | azimut | (~azimut@gateway/tor-sasl/azimut) |
| 2023-07-16 04:35:47 +0000 | bratwurst | (~dfadsva@2604:3d09:207f:f650::c680) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 2023-07-16 04:38:11 +0000 | bilegeek | (~bilegeek@2600:1008:b05a:f130:44fd:4f80:d009:3d7f) |
| 2023-07-16 04:38:46 +0000 | segfaultfizzbuzz | (~segfaultf@23-93-74-212.fiber.dynamic.sonic.net) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 2023-07-16 04:39:59 +0000 | alexbiehl | (~alexbiehl@2a02:8108:323f:ca14:adeb:5d31:3c95:b332) |
| 2023-07-16 04:42:34 +0000 | machinedgod | (~machinedg@d198-53-218-113.abhsia.telus.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2023-07-16 04:43:49 +0000 | arahael_ | (~arahael@124-149-31-4.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 2023-07-16 04:44:07 +0000 | alexbiehl | (~alexbiehl@2a02:8108:323f:ca14:adeb:5d31:3c95:b332) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 2023-07-16 04:49:07 +0000 | arahael_ | (~arahael@124-149-31-4.dyn.iinet.net.au) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 2023-07-16 04:55:48 +0000 | photoreception | (~hilario@103.166.10.159) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) |
| 2023-07-16 04:56:44 +0000 | Unicorn_Princess | (~Unicorn_P@user/Unicorn-Princess/x-3540542) (Quit: Leaving) |
| 2023-07-16 04:56:56 +0000 | alexbiehl | (~alexbiehl@2a02:8108:323f:ca14:adeb:5d31:3c95:b332) |
| 2023-07-16 05:01:15 +0000 | hgolden | (~hgolden@2603-8000-9d00-3ed1-7b72-5998-97ad-985d.res6.spectrum.com) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2023-07-16 05:01:26 +0000 | alexbiehl | (~alexbiehl@2a02:8108:323f:ca14:adeb:5d31:3c95:b332) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2023-07-16 05:08:20 +0000 | alexbiehl | (~alexbiehl@2a02:8108:323f:ca14:adeb:5d31:3c95:b332) |
| 2023-07-16 05:12:54 +0000 | alexbiehl | (~alexbiehl@2a02:8108:323f:ca14:adeb:5d31:3c95:b332) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) |
| 2023-07-16 05:20:17 +0000 | alexbiehl | (~alexbiehl@2a02:8108:323f:ca14:adeb:5d31:3c95:b332) |
| 2023-07-16 05:21:28 +0000 | arahael_ | (~arahael@124-149-31-4.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 2023-07-16 05:21:51 +0000 | phma | (phma@2001:5b0:210d:70c8:ad46:ee22:ab79:2098) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2023-07-16 05:22:20 +0000 | phma | (~phma@host-67-44-208-146.hnremote.net) |
| 2023-07-16 05:24:32 +0000 | alexbiehl | (~alexbiehl@2a02:8108:323f:ca14:adeb:5d31:3c95:b332) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 2023-07-16 05:24:53 +0000 | azy | (~azy@87-97-13-0.pool.digikabel.hu) |
| 2023-07-16 05:26:50 +0000 | arahael_ | (~arahael@124-149-31-4.dyn.iinet.net.au) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) |
| 2023-07-16 05:34:54 +0000 | takuan | (~takuan@178-116-218-225.access.telenet.be) |
| 2023-07-16 05:34:58 +0000 | neuroevolutus | (~neuroevol@2001:ac8:9a:76::1e) |
| 2023-07-16 05:36:18 +0000 | rainbyte | (~rainbyte@181.31.239.226) |
| 2023-07-16 05:36:47 +0000 | tonyday | (~user@122-199-56-230.ip4.superloop.au) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2023-07-16 05:37:24 +0000 | alexbiehl | (~alexbiehl@2a02:8108:323f:ca14:adeb:5d31:3c95:b332) |
| 2023-07-16 05:44:50 +0000 | alexbiehl | (~alexbiehl@2a02:8108:323f:ca14:adeb:5d31:3c95:b332) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2023-07-16 05:48:24 +0000 | kmein | (~weechat@user/kmein) (Quit: ciao kakao) |
| 2023-07-16 05:49:12 +0000 | kmein | (~weechat@user/kmein) |
| 2023-07-16 05:53:14 +0000 | alexbiehl | (~alexbiehl@2a02:8108:323f:ca14:adeb:5d31:3c95:b332) |
| 2023-07-16 05:53:23 +0000 | falafel | (~falafel@2603-7000-a700-8710-852b-5524-3f51-1682.res6.spectrum.com) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 2023-07-16 05:55:15 +0000 | arahael_ | (~arahael@124-149-31-4.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 2023-07-16 05:58:11 +0000 | alexbiehl | (~alexbiehl@2a02:8108:323f:ca14:adeb:5d31:3c95:b332) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 2023-07-16 06:00:24 +0000 | arahael_ | (~arahael@124-149-31-4.dyn.iinet.net.au) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) |
| 2023-07-16 06:03:51 +0000 | alexbiehl | (~alexbiehl@2a02:8108:323f:ca14:adeb:5d31:3c95:b332) |
| 2023-07-16 06:07:20 +0000 | arahael_ | (~arahael@124-149-31-4.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 2023-07-16 06:09:22 +0000 | XliminalX | (~goirc@2001:19f0:5c00:27fc:5400:4ff:fe7a:1f8e) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2023-07-16 06:09:40 +0000 | misterfish | (~misterfis@84-53-85-146.bbserv.nl) |
| 2023-07-16 06:10:20 +0000 | rainbyte | (~rainbyte@181.31.239.226) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2023-07-16 06:13:24 +0000 | razetime | (~quassel@117.193.2.36) |
| 2023-07-16 06:16:44 +0000 | acidjnk | (~acidjnk@p200300d6e7072f499123e473781aa8c4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 2023-07-16 06:20:02 +0000 | arahael_ | (~arahael@124-149-31-4.dyn.iinet.net.au) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) |
| 2023-07-16 06:22:20 +0000 | alexbiehl | (~alexbiehl@2a02:8108:323f:ca14:adeb:5d31:3c95:b332) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2023-07-16 06:22:53 +0000 | alexbiehl | (~alexbiehl@2a02:8108:323f:ca14:adeb:5d31:3c95:b332) |
| 2023-07-16 06:28:54 +0000 | alexbiehl | (~alexbiehl@2a02:8108:323f:ca14:adeb:5d31:3c95:b332) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) |
| 2023-07-16 06:33:32 +0000 | euandreh | (~Thunderbi@189.6.18.7) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) |
| 2023-07-16 06:42:34 +0000 | arahael_ | (~arahael@124-149-31-4.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 2023-07-16 06:43:15 +0000 | Inst__ | (~Inst@2601:6c4:4081:2fc0:39c6:994c:92a5:82c7) |
| 2023-07-16 06:43:25 +0000 | misterfish | (~misterfis@84-53-85-146.bbserv.nl) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2023-07-16 06:47:27 +0000 | arahael_ | (~arahael@124-149-31-4.dyn.iinet.net.au) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 2023-07-16 06:49:48 +0000 | razetime | (~quassel@117.193.2.36) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) |
| 2023-07-16 06:53:15 +0000 | alexbiehl | (~alexbiehl@2a02:8108:323f:ca14:adeb:5d31:3c95:b332) |
| 2023-07-16 06:53:34 +0000 | eggplantade | (~Eggplanta@2600:1700:38c5:d800:708b:7aa2:8b48:d8a9) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2023-07-16 06:54:14 +0000 | hugo | (znc@verdigris.lysator.liu.se) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) |
| 2023-07-16 06:57:35 +0000 | alexbiehl | (~alexbiehl@2a02:8108:323f:ca14:adeb:5d31:3c95:b332) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2023-07-16 06:57:56 +0000 | rainbyte | (~rainbyte@181.31.239.226) |
| 2023-07-16 07:01:57 +0000 | hugo | (znc@verdigris.lysator.liu.se) |
| 2023-07-16 07:05:46 +0000 | gnalzo | (~gnalzo@2a01:e0a:498:fd50:fcc6:bb5d:489a:ce8c) |
| 2023-07-16 07:10:45 +0000 | gmg | (~user@user/gehmehgeh) |
| 2023-07-16 07:15:15 +0000 | arahael_ | (~arahael@124-149-31-4.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 2023-07-16 07:16:14 +0000 | nate2 | (~nate@c-98-45-169-16.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 2023-07-16 07:17:02 +0000 | rainbyte | (~rainbyte@181.31.239.226) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) |
| 2023-07-16 07:20:12 +0000 | Buggys | (Buggys@shelltalk.net) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) |
| 2023-07-16 07:20:50 +0000 | arahael_ | (~arahael@124-149-31-4.dyn.iinet.net.au) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) |
| 2023-07-16 07:21:28 +0000 | nate2 | (~nate@c-98-45-169-16.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) |
| 2023-07-16 07:23:08 +0000 | neuroevolutus | (~neuroevol@2001:ac8:9a:76::1e) (Quit: Client closed) |
| 2023-07-16 07:25:32 +0000 | alexbiehl | (~alexbiehl@2a02:8108:323f:ca14:adeb:5d31:3c95:b332) |
| 2023-07-16 07:26:31 +0000 | arahael_ | (~arahael@124-149-31-4.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 2023-07-16 07:28:20 +0000 | Buggys | (Buggys@Buggy.shelltalk.net) |
| 2023-07-16 07:30:18 +0000 | alexbiehl | (~alexbiehl@2a02:8108:323f:ca14:adeb:5d31:3c95:b332) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2023-07-16 07:35:22 +0000 | bilegeek | (~bilegeek@2600:1008:b05a:f130:44fd:4f80:d009:3d7f) (Quit: Leaving) |
| 2023-07-16 07:38:24 +0000 | tromp | (~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) |
| 2023-07-16 07:51:02 +0000 | actioninja63 | (~actioninj@user/actioninja) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2023-07-16 07:51:46 +0000 | notzmv | (~zmv@user/notzmv) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2023-07-16 07:53:21 +0000 | actioninja63 | (~actioninj@user/actioninja) |
| 2023-07-16 07:54:04 +0000 | eggplantade | (~Eggplanta@2600:1700:38c5:d800:f161:e9a5:5038:6be6) |
| 2023-07-16 07:58:25 +0000 | eggplantade | (~Eggplanta@2600:1700:38c5:d800:f161:e9a5:5038:6be6) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2023-07-16 08:03:35 +0000 | pierrot | (~pi@user/pierrot) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 2023-07-16 08:03:47 +0000 | misterfish | (~misterfis@87.215.131.102) |
| 2023-07-16 08:13:25 +0000 | rainbyte | (~rainbyte@181.31.239.226) |
| 2023-07-16 08:13:30 +0000 | alecs | (~alecs@31.188.166.219) |
| 2023-07-16 08:14:26 +0000 | picklejuice | (~root@c-73-196-164-60.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2023-07-16 08:18:30 +0000 | trev | (~trev@user/trev) (Quit: trev) |
| 2023-07-16 08:18:34 +0000 | alexbiehl | (~alexbiehl@2a02:8108:323f:ca14:adeb:5d31:3c95:b332) |
| 2023-07-16 08:19:11 +0000 | dibblego | (~dibblego@haskell/developer/dibblego) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 2023-07-16 08:22:52 +0000 | alexbiehl | (~alexbiehl@2a02:8108:323f:ca14:adeb:5d31:3c95:b332) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 2023-07-16 08:23:46 +0000 | dibblego | (~dibblego@116.255.1.157) |
| 2023-07-16 08:23:46 +0000 | dibblego | (~dibblego@116.255.1.157) (Changing host) |
| 2023-07-16 08:23:46 +0000 | dibblego | (~dibblego@haskell/developer/dibblego) |
| 2023-07-16 08:25:19 +0000 | Tuplanolla | (~Tuplanoll@91-159-68-236.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 2023-07-16 08:29:55 +0000 | son0p | (~ff@181.136.122.143) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2023-07-16 08:30:20 +0000 | econo_ | (uid147250@id-147250.tinside.irccloud.com) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) |
| 2023-07-16 08:32:24 +0000 | rainbyte | (~rainbyte@181.31.239.226) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) |
| 2023-07-16 08:33:15 +0000 | kupi | (uid212005@id-212005.hampstead.irccloud.com) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) |
| 2023-07-16 08:33:51 +0000 | dibblego | (~dibblego@haskell/developer/dibblego) (Quit: λ) |
| 2023-07-16 08:39:23 +0000 | gurkenglas | (~gurkengla@dynamic-046-114-178-024.46.114.pool.telefonica.de) |
| 2023-07-16 08:42:13 +0000 | gnalzo | (~gnalzo@2a01:e0a:498:fd50:fcc6:bb5d:489a:ce8c) (Quit: WeeChat 4.0.1) |
| 2023-07-16 08:44:19 +0000 | Sgeo_ | (~Sgeo@user/sgeo) |
| 2023-07-16 08:44:30 +0000 | oo_miguel1 | (~Thunderbi@78-11-179-96.static.ip.netia.com.pl) |
| 2023-07-16 08:44:31 +0000 | buckwheat | (~buckwheat@209.122.211.192) |
| 2023-07-16 08:44:52 +0000 | pyooque | (~puke@user/puke) |
| 2023-07-16 08:44:52 +0000 | puke | (~puke@user/puke) (Killed (sodium.libera.chat (Nickname regained by services))) |
| 2023-07-16 08:44:52 +0000 | pyooque | puke |
| 2023-07-16 08:45:12 +0000 | bramhaag7 | (~bramhaag@134.195.121.39) |
| 2023-07-16 08:45:25 +0000 | erisco_ | (~erisco@d24-141-66-165.home.cgocable.net) |
| 2023-07-16 08:45:26 +0000 | zero | (~z@user/zero) |
| 2023-07-16 08:45:28 +0000 | mrmr8 | (~mrmr@user/mrmr) |
| 2023-07-16 08:45:32 +0000 | nonzen_ | (~nonzen@user/nonzen) |
| 2023-07-16 08:45:33 +0000 | kimiamania60 | (~681cf57f@user/kimiamania) |
| 2023-07-16 08:45:51 +0000 | doyougnu- | (~doyougnu@45.46.170.68) |
| 2023-07-16 08:45:57 +0000 | mauke_ | (~mauke@user/mauke) |
| 2023-07-16 08:47:07 +0000 | connrs_ | (~connrs@user/connrs) |
| 2023-07-16 08:47:08 +0000 | arahael__ | (~arahael@124-149-31-4.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 2023-07-16 08:48:43 +0000 | ft_ | (~ft@p4fc2a0ab.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 2023-07-16 08:48:44 +0000 | azy_ | (~azy@87-97-13-0.pool.digikabel.hu) |
| 2023-07-16 08:48:56 +0000 | myme1 | (~myme@2a01:799:d60:e400:c5b2:fe0:610f:cd7e) |
| 2023-07-16 08:48:58 +0000 | bliminse_ | (~bliminse@user/bliminse) |
| 2023-07-16 08:49:08 +0000 | xff0x | (~xff0x@2405:6580:b080:900:14cb:7c54:d1b0:d899) |
| 2023-07-16 08:49:11 +0000 | CaptnCrunch | (~pi4@ip5f5b4693.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) |
| 2023-07-16 08:49:28 +0000 | user1 | (~user@162.255.84.96) |
| 2023-07-16 08:49:35 +0000 | kmein_ | (~weechat@user/kmein) |
| 2023-07-16 08:49:44 +0000 | alecs1 | (~alecs@31.188.166.219) |
| 2023-07-16 08:50:14 +0000 | alexbiehl | (~alexbiehl@2a02:8108:323f:ca14:adeb:5d31:3c95:b332) |
| 2023-07-16 08:52:42 +0000 | cyphase_eviltwin | (~cyphase@user/cyphase) |
| 2023-07-16 08:53:29 +0000 | alecs | (~alecs@31.188.166.219) (*.net *.split) |
| 2023-07-16 08:53:29 +0000 | Buggys | (Buggys@Buggy.shelltalk.net) (*.net *.split) |
| 2023-07-16 08:53:29 +0000 | arahael_ | (~arahael@124-149-31-4.dyn.iinet.net.au) (*.net *.split) |
| 2023-07-16 08:53:29 +0000 | kmein | (~weechat@user/kmein) (*.net *.split) |
| 2023-07-16 08:53:29 +0000 | ft | (~ft@p4fc2a0ab.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (*.net *.split) |
| 2023-07-16 08:53:29 +0000 | NinjaTrappeur | (~ninja@user/ninjatrappeur) (*.net *.split) |
| 2023-07-16 08:53:29 +0000 | Sgeo | (~Sgeo@user/sgeo) (*.net *.split) |
| 2023-07-16 08:53:29 +0000 | buckwheatsuperpo | (~buckwheat@209.122.211.192) (*.net *.split) |
| 2023-07-16 08:53:29 +0000 | mauke | (~mauke@user/mauke) (*.net *.split) |
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| 2023-07-16 08:53:29 +0000 | connrs | (~connrs@user/connrs) (*.net *.split) |
| 2023-07-16 08:53:29 +0000 | Raito_Bezarius | (~Raito@wireguard/tunneler/raito-bezarius) (*.net *.split) |
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| 2023-07-16 08:53:29 +0000 | dsrt^ | (~cd@24.125.210.85) (*.net *.split) |
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| 2023-07-16 08:54:09 +0000 | dsrt^ | (~cd@24.125.210.85) |
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| 2023-07-16 08:54:39 +0000 | Buggys | (Buggys@Buggy.shelltalk.net) |
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| 2023-07-16 09:33:31 +0000 | euandreh | (~Thunderbi@189.6.18.7) |
| 2023-07-16 09:34:33 +0000 | Lord_of_Life_ | (~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915) |
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| 2023-07-16 09:37:18 +0000 | Lord_of_Life_ | Lord_of_Life |
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| 2023-07-16 09:41:59 +0000 | pavonia | (~user@user/siracusa) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
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| 2023-07-16 10:08:41 +0000 | alexbiehl | (~alexbiehl@2a02:8108:323f:ca14:adeb:5d31:3c95:b332) |
| 2023-07-16 10:12:57 +0000 | alexbiehl | (~alexbiehl@2a02:8108:323f:ca14:adeb:5d31:3c95:b332) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2023-07-16 10:20:40 +0000 | alexbiehl | (~alexbiehl@2a02:8108:323f:ca14:adeb:5d31:3c95:b332) |
| 2023-07-16 10:22:06 +0000 | <zincy> | Since property based testing is non-deterministic does that pose a problem for CI? People don't like flakey tests so how should I respond if someone complains PBTs are flakey. I don't know where to stand on this. |
| 2023-07-16 10:22:30 +0000 | <zincy> | Like is there good flakey and bad flakey ;) |
| 2023-07-16 10:23:09 +0000 | <geekosaur> | any failure is a failure, no? |
| 2023-07-16 10:23:23 +0000 | <zincy> | Yes :) |
| 2023-07-16 10:23:47 +0000 | <geekosaur> | either you have not constrained your valid inputs enough for testing, or you have failing cases that shouldn't be failing |
| 2023-07-16 10:24:32 +0000 | <zincy> | Thanks |
| 2023-07-16 10:25:23 +0000 | <zincy> | So randomness over inputs we care about is fine even in a unit test? |
| 2023-07-16 10:25:32 +0000 | <geekosaur> | yes |
| 2023-07-16 10:25:41 +0000 | <zincy> | Maybe people get confused about determinism vs random |
| 2023-07-16 10:25:43 +0000 | <zincy> | I know I do |
| 2023-07-16 10:26:14 +0000 | <zincy> | Test results you can't reliably reproduce are always a problem but thats why we have seeds |
| 2023-07-16 10:27:20 +0000 | <geekosaur> | decent property based testers will tell you what inputs failed, so you should be able to reproduce immediately |
| 2023-07-16 10:27:33 +0000 | <geekosaur> | qc definitely does this |
| 2023-07-16 10:28:42 +0000 | alexbiehl | (~alexbiehl@2a02:8108:323f:ca14:adeb:5d31:3c95:b332) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2023-07-16 10:35:17 +0000 | ubert | (~Thunderbi@91.141.79.172.wireless.dyn.drei.com) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2023-07-16 10:35:55 +0000 | <geekosaur> | it's not randomness vs. nondeterminism, btw. the randomness is hidden inside the test library; it doesn't really matter how it does its job as long as it does it. it could try sequential values, conceivably (although this wouldn't work so well for Doubles) |
| 2023-07-16 10:36:48 +0000 | <geekosaur> | you could think of this as being similar to bisecting vs. sequential search |
| 2023-07-16 10:37:19 +0000 | <geekosaur> | there is research about this although I'm not remembering the proper term for it |
| 2023-07-16 10:42:21 +0000 | alexbiehl | (~alexbiehl@2a02:8108:323f:ca14:adeb:5d31:3c95:b332) |
| 2023-07-16 10:42:38 +0000 | gnalzo | (~gnalzo@2a01:e0a:498:fd50:fcc6:bb5d:489a:ce8c) |
| 2023-07-16 10:44:04 +0000 | picklejuice | (~root@c-73-196-164-60.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) |
| 2023-07-16 10:44:24 +0000 | __monty__ | (~toonn@user/toonn) |
| 2023-07-16 10:46:09 +0000 | <[exa]> | zincy: I always explained this as follow: 1] minimal property tests passing imply that it's at least as tested as minimal unit tests passing 2] anyone can always bump up the N of generated property tests to gain more confidence or find more weirdness |
| 2023-07-16 10:46:32 +0000 | alexbiehl | (~alexbiehl@2a02:8108:323f:ca14:adeb:5d31:3c95:b332) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2023-07-16 10:49:16 +0000 | L29Ah | (~L29Ah@wikipedia/L29Ah) () |
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| 2023-07-16 11:01:06 +0000 | mrmr | (~mrmr@user/mrmr) (Quit: Bye, See ya later!) |
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| 2023-07-16 12:12:56 +0000 | [itchyjunk] | (~itchyjunk@user/itchyjunk/x-7353470) |
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| 2023-07-16 12:13:36 +0000 | raghavgururajan | (ea769b8000@user/raghavgururajan) |
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| 2023-07-16 13:00:06 +0000 | arahael_ | (~arahael@124-149-31-4.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
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| 2023-07-16 13:02:59 +0000 | eggplantade | (~Eggplanta@2600:1700:38c5:d800:f161:e9a5:5038:6be6) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 2023-07-16 13:05:01 +0000 | arahael_ | (~arahael@124-149-31-4.dyn.iinet.net.au) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 2023-07-16 13:08:17 +0000 | CaptnCrunch | (~pi4@ip5f5b4693.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) (Quit: WeeChat 4.0.1) |
| 2023-07-16 13:08:18 +0000 | notzmv | (~zmv@user/notzmv) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2023-07-16 13:11:54 +0000 | alexbiehl | (~alexbiehl@2a02:8108:323f:ca14:adeb:5d31:3c95:b332) |
| 2023-07-16 13:13:10 +0000 | CrunchyFlakes | (~pi4@ip5f5b4693.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) |
| 2023-07-16 13:15:30 +0000 | waleee | (~waleee@2001:9b0:21c:4000:5bf9:6515:c030:57b7) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) |
| 2023-07-16 13:16:34 +0000 | alexbiehl | (~alexbiehl@2a02:8108:323f:ca14:adeb:5d31:3c95:b332) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2023-07-16 13:19:10 +0000 | alexbiehl | (~alexbiehl@2a02:8108:323f:ca14:adeb:5d31:3c95:b332) |
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| 2023-07-16 13:26:05 +0000 | jabuxas | (~jabuxas@user/jabuxas) |
| 2023-07-16 13:27:21 +0000 | <jabuxas> | i'm receiving this error when running stack build in a fresh void musl vm https://bpa.st/4M7A |
| 2023-07-16 13:29:52 +0000 | <maerwald> | jabuxas: I think you might have better luck with ghcup and cabal and then overwriting the distro detection like so: https://www.haskell.org/ghcup/guide/#overriding-distro-detection |
| 2023-07-16 13:29:59 +0000 | <maerwald> | and setting it to Alpine linux |
| 2023-07-16 13:30:29 +0000 | alexbiehl | (~alexbiehl@2a02:8108:323f:ca14:adeb:5d31:3c95:b332) |
| 2023-07-16 13:30:44 +0000 | <maerwald> | e.g. https://paste.tomsmeding.com/ecdUiTai |
| 2023-07-16 13:31:33 +0000 | <jabuxas> | i'll give that a try, ghcup was failing before so i had given up on it, maybe that was the solution |
| 2023-07-16 13:31:49 +0000 | <maerwald> | yes probably... but only part of the installation has failed |
| 2023-07-16 13:31:55 +0000 | <maerwald> | the ghcup binary installation always suceeds |
| 2023-07-16 13:32:13 +0000 | <maerwald> | then you change the config and do the installations yourself |
| 2023-07-16 13:32:58 +0000 | arahael_ | (~arahael@124-149-31-4.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 2023-07-16 13:33:51 +0000 | <maerwald> | or sec |
| 2023-07-16 13:34:42 +0000 | <maerwald> | curl --proto '=https' --tlsv1.2 -sSf https://get-ghcup.haskell.org | BOOTSTRAP_HASKELL_MINIMAL=1 sh |
| 2023-07-16 13:34:44 +0000 | <maerwald> | this will do |
| 2023-07-16 13:34:54 +0000 | <maerwald> | it will skip ghc and cabal installation |
| 2023-07-16 13:34:57 +0000 | alexbiehl | (~alexbiehl@2a02:8108:323f:ca14:adeb:5d31:3c95:b332) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 2023-07-16 13:37:45 +0000 | waleee | (~waleee@2001:9b0:21c:4000:5bf9:6515:c030:57b7) |
| 2023-07-16 13:38:18 +0000 | arahael_ | (~arahael@124-149-31-4.dyn.iinet.net.au) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) |
| 2023-07-16 13:39:14 +0000 | <maerwald> | and then you do: ghcup config set platform-override '{ "arch": "A_64", "platform": { "contents": "Alpine", "tag": "Linux" }, "version": "3.17" }' |
| 2023-07-16 13:41:50 +0000 | alexbiehl | (~alexbiehl@2a02:8108:323f:ca14:adeb:5d31:3c95:b332) |
| 2023-07-16 13:42:33 +0000 | <jabuxas> | yeah, now ghcup install ghc didn't fail on install |
| 2023-07-16 13:46:06 +0000 | alexbiehl | (~alexbiehl@2a02:8108:323f:ca14:adeb:5d31:3c95:b332) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2023-07-16 13:46:24 +0000 | <maerwald> | jabuxas: documented here now https://www.haskell.org/ghcup/install/#void-linux |
| 2023-07-16 13:47:58 +0000 | <jabuxas> | you did that now? amazing |
| 2023-07-16 13:48:00 +0000 | <jabuxas> | ty a lot for the help |
| 2023-07-16 13:49:29 +0000 | wootehfoot | (~wootehfoo@user/wootehfoot) |
| 2023-07-16 13:50:29 +0000 | <maerwald> | some newer GHCs may be wonky, because some alpine bindist sare fully static and some are not |
| 2023-07-16 13:50:36 +0000 | <maerwald> | it's a known issue and not fully resolved |
| 2023-07-16 13:50:43 +0000 | <maerwald> | fully static bindists can cause issues with cabal |
| 2023-07-16 13:50:47 +0000 | waleee | (~waleee@2001:9b0:21c:4000:5bf9:6515:c030:57b7) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 2023-07-16 13:55:32 +0000 | machinedgod | (~machinedg@d198-53-218-113.abhsia.telus.net) |
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| 2023-07-16 18:00:22 +0000 | L29Ah | (~L29Ah@wikipedia/L29Ah) () |
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| 2023-07-16 18:32:11 +0000 | wroathe | (~wroathe@207-153-38-140.fttp.usinternet.com) (Changing host) |
| 2023-07-16 18:32:11 +0000 | wroathe | (~wroathe@user/wroathe) |
| 2023-07-16 18:33:58 +0000 | alexbiehl | (~alexbiehl@ip4d14fda4.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) |
| 2023-07-16 18:40:19 +0000 | elkcl | (~elkcl@broadband-95-84-226-240.ip.moscow.rt.ru) |
| 2023-07-16 18:48:48 +0000 | tromp | (~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) |
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| 2023-07-16 18:52:02 +0000 | arahael_ | (~arahael@124-149-31-4.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 2023-07-16 18:52:14 +0000 | tromp | (~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) |
| 2023-07-16 18:52:20 +0000 | alexbiehl | (~alexbiehl@2a02:8108:323f:ca14:adeb:5d31:3c95:b332) |
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| 2023-07-16 18:57:02 +0000 | arahael_ | (~arahael@124-149-31-4.dyn.iinet.net.au) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 2023-07-16 18:59:47 +0000 | hololeap | (~quassel@user/hololeap) (Quit: Bye) |
| 2023-07-16 18:59:58 +0000 | cheater | (~Username@user/cheater) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2023-07-16 19:00:09 +0000 | Nosrep | (~Nosrep@user/nosrep) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2023-07-16 19:00:25 +0000 | cheater | (~Username@user/cheater) |
| 2023-07-16 19:00:29 +0000 | Nosrep | (~Nosrep@user/nosrep) |
| 2023-07-16 19:07:18 +0000 | <zero> | what's the reasoning behind an implicit prelude? |
| 2023-07-16 19:07:29 +0000 | wroathe | (~wroathe@user/wroathe) (Quit: leaving) |
| 2023-07-16 19:08:02 +0000 | <geekosaur> | various syntactic constructs expand to functions from it, for one |
| 2023-07-16 19:09:31 +0000 | alexbiehl | (~alexbiehl@2a02:8108:323f:ca14:adeb:5d31:3c95:b332) |
| 2023-07-16 19:10:47 +0000 | misterfish | (~misterfis@84-53-85-146.bbserv.nl) |
| 2023-07-16 19:17:53 +0000 | arahael_ | (~arahael@124-149-31-4.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 2023-07-16 19:20:22 +0000 | AlexNoo | (~AlexNoo@178.34.162.202) |
| 2023-07-16 19:22:47 +0000 | arahael_ | (~arahael@124-149-31-4.dyn.iinet.net.au) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 2023-07-16 19:23:23 +0000 | <[exa]> | zero: also typing 'import Prelude' all over again 1000 times a day gets pretty boring |
| 2023-07-16 19:23:31 +0000 | AlexNoo | (~AlexNoo@178.34.162.202) (Client Quit) |
| 2023-07-16 19:25:13 +0000 | <Rembane> | zero: You can compare to what Purescript code looks like. Purescript does not have implicit prelude. You can also use the language extension NoImplicitPrelude to get a feel for it in Haskell. |
| 2023-07-16 19:27:06 +0000 | alexbiehl | (~alexbiehl@2a02:8108:323f:ca14:adeb:5d31:3c95:b332) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2023-07-16 19:28:06 +0000 | tromp | (~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) |
| 2023-07-16 19:29:48 +0000 | <probie> | Personally, I don't think typing `import Prelude` over and over again 1000 times is that much of an impediment in practice. It's only recently I've stopped typing out large numbers of LANGUAGE pragmas |
| 2023-07-16 19:31:14 +0000 | <probie> | It's just awkward to have a language construct like `if`, but not have the only type that can be used with it in scope (also, string literals, list literals and tuples are implicitly brought in because of syntax support) |
| 2023-07-16 19:31:55 +0000 | <geekosaur> | or case |
| 2023-07-16 19:31:56 +0000 | <geekosaur> | or do |
| 2023-07-16 19:32:04 +0000 | <geekosaur> | or list comprehensions |
| 2023-07-16 19:32:15 +0000 | AlexNoo | (~AlexNoo@178.34.162.202) |
| 2023-07-16 19:33:19 +0000 | <probie> | What about case needs the prelude? |
| 2023-07-16 19:33:38 +0000 | <geekosaur> | guards need `Bool` |
| 2023-07-16 19:37:20 +0000 | <probie> | "need" is a strong word. They're hindered without `Bool`, but you can still do something like `data B = F | T; and :: B -> B -> B; and p q | T <- p, T <- q = T; and p q | T <- T = F` |
| 2023-07-16 19:37:46 +0000 | <probie> | but point taken |
| 2023-07-16 19:38:16 +0000 | tromp | (~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) |
| 2023-07-16 19:38:17 +0000 | <geekosaur> | H98 and earlier, which is where this came from, didn't have that construct |
| 2023-07-16 19:38:44 +0000 | michalz | (~michalz@185.246.207.221) |
| 2023-07-16 19:39:04 +0000 | hololeap | (~quassel@user/hololeap) |
| 2023-07-16 19:39:42 +0000 | hololeap | (~quassel@user/hololeap) (Client Quit) |
| 2023-07-16 19:39:50 +0000 | <mauke> | every numeric literal is a method call |
| 2023-07-16 19:42:08 +0000 | AlexNoo | (~AlexNoo@178.34.162.202) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2023-07-16 19:42:30 +0000 | AlexNoo | (~AlexNoo@178.34.162.202) |
| 2023-07-16 19:42:33 +0000 | AlexNoo | (~AlexNoo@178.34.162.202) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2023-07-16 19:43:39 +0000 | hololeap | (~quassel@user/hololeap) |
| 2023-07-16 19:44:31 +0000 | <probie> | I tried to do advent of code last year without the Prelude (with two functions and one type that did depend on the prelude - my IO type and read/write a `List U8` from stdin/stdout) |
| 2023-07-16 19:44:47 +0000 | <probie> | It turns out that code is much harder to read without numeric literals |
| 2023-07-16 19:44:51 +0000 | <probie> | or string literals |
| 2023-07-16 19:45:26 +0000 | hololeap | (~quassel@user/hololeap) (Client Quit) |
| 2023-07-16 19:45:41 +0000 | danza | (~francesco@151.57.141.3) |
| 2023-07-16 19:46:16 +0000 | <probie> | https://paste.tomsmeding.com/jqZLZzNg for a no-context snippet |
| 2023-07-16 19:46:30 +0000 | dhil | (~dhil@78.45.150.83.ewm.ftth.as8758.net) |
| 2023-07-16 19:46:51 +0000 | hololeap | (~quassel@user/hololeap) |
| 2023-07-16 19:47:06 +0000 | <jade[m]> | jesus |
| 2023-07-16 19:47:38 +0000 | AlexZenon | (~alzenon@178.34.162.202) |
| 2023-07-16 19:47:39 +0000 | AlexZenon | (~alzenon@178.34.162.202) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2023-07-16 19:47:56 +0000 | segfaultfizzbuzz | (~segfaultf@23-93-74-212.fiber.dynamic.sonic.net) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 2023-07-16 19:48:45 +0000 | manmshuk | (~manmshuk@2401:4900:1c62:ac3c:c634:fc8a:89fd:90f7) |
| 2023-07-16 19:52:36 +0000 | arahael_ | (~arahael@124-149-31-4.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 2023-07-16 19:52:45 +0000 | fendor | (~fendor@2a02:8388:1640:be00:1f28:32b1:54ac:a932) |
| 2023-07-16 19:53:15 +0000 | mechap | (~mechap@user/mechap) |
| 2023-07-16 19:54:47 +0000 | alexbiehl | (~alexbiehl@2a02:8108:323f:ca14:adeb:5d31:3c95:b332) |
| 2023-07-16 19:56:11 +0000 | <probie> | You haven't lived until you've written `main = write (c_H :< c_e :< c_l :< c_l :< c_o :< c_space :< c_w :< c_o :< c_r :< c_l :< c_d :< c_nl :< Nil)` :p |
| 2023-07-16 19:56:28 +0000 | <mauke> | what, no lazy list based IO? |
| 2023-07-16 19:57:31 +0000 | arahael_ | (~arahael@124-149-31-4.dyn.iinet.net.au) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 2023-07-16 19:57:34 +0000 | AlexNoo | (~AlexNoo@178.34.162.202) |
| 2023-07-16 19:57:52 +0000 | nick4 | (~nick@2600:8807:9084:7800:a897:2684:b283:80ec) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 2023-07-16 19:58:30 +0000 | _ht | (~Thunderbi@28-52-174-82.ftth.glasoperator.nl) (Quit: _ht) |
| 2023-07-16 19:59:55 +0000 | alexbiehl | (~alexbiehl@2a02:8108:323f:ca14:adeb:5d31:3c95:b332) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2023-07-16 19:59:56 +0000 | trev | (~trev@user/trev) (Quit: trev) |
| 2023-07-16 20:00:42 +0000 | <jade[m]> | is there some docs/blogpost/writeup about how the lazy list IO worked? |
| 2023-07-16 20:02:09 +0000 | <mauke> | main :: [Response] -> [Request] |
| 2023-07-16 20:03:13 +0000 | <probie> | :t interact |
| 2023-07-16 20:03:13 +0000 | <jade[m]> | what are the constructors of each of those? |
| 2023-07-16 20:03:14 +0000 | <lambdabot> | (String -> String) -> IO () |
| 2023-07-16 20:04:23 +0000 | <probie> | main = interact (print . sum . (read :: String -> Integer) . lines) -- Sum a list of integers from stdin, provided one per line |
| 2023-07-16 20:04:50 +0000 | <probie> | Sorry, that should be `main = interact (print . sum . map (read :: String -> Integer) . lines)` |
| 2023-07-16 20:04:58 +0000 | <mauke> | I don't know, but I assume something like putStr :: String -> Request and getLine :: Request existed |
| 2023-07-16 20:05:01 +0000 | <jade[m]> | yep, interact is neat |
| 2023-07-16 20:06:06 +0000 | <jade[m]> | probie: did you mean `map read` btw? |
| 2023-07-16 20:06:37 +0000 | zer0bitz_ | (~zer0bitz@user/zer0bitz) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2023-07-16 20:06:40 +0000 | <probie> | Did the correction not send, or send delayed? |
| 2023-07-16 20:07:10 +0000 | alexbiehl | (~alexbiehl@2a02:8108:323f:ca14:adeb:5d31:3c95:b332) |
| 2023-07-16 20:10:55 +0000 | zer0bitz | (~zer0bitz@user/zer0bitz) |
| 2023-07-16 20:12:14 +0000 | alexbiehl | (~alexbiehl@2a02:8108:323f:ca14:adeb:5d31:3c95:b332) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) |
| 2023-07-16 20:13:35 +0000 | manmshuk | (~manmshuk@2401:4900:1c62:ac3c:c634:fc8a:89fd:90f7) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2023-07-16 20:17:40 +0000 | <mauke> | jade[m]: https://paste.tomsmeding.com/4xRhYgua |
| 2023-07-16 20:18:52 +0000 | <jade[m]> | interesting, thanks |
| 2023-07-16 20:19:03 +0000 | <mauke> | this is from Haskell 1.2 |
| 2023-07-16 20:27:13 +0000 | nick4 | (~nick@2600:8807:9084:7800:a897:2684:b283:80ec) |
| 2023-07-16 20:27:40 +0000 | arahael_ | (~arahael@124-149-31-4.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 2023-07-16 20:28:01 +0000 | segfaultfizzbuzz | (~segfaultf@23-93-74-212.fiber.dynamic.sonic.net) |
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| 2023-07-16 20:34:52 +0000 | myme1 | myme |
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| 2023-07-16 23:39:59 +0000 | mauke_ | (~mauke@user/mauke) |
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| 2023-07-16 23:41:26 +0000 | mauke_ | mauke |
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