| 2023-06-22 00:00:12 +0200 | <monochrom> | That is equivalent to: Every provable sentence has a finite-length proof, so just try every string that qualifies as a proof of something. |
| 2023-06-22 00:00:27 +0200 | rf | (~rf@2605:59c8:179c:f610:b924:5d99:d3fe:ccc6) |
| 2023-06-22 00:00:28 +0200 | <EvanR> | unlike long square root whose state keeps growing |
| 2023-06-22 00:01:10 +0200 | <monochrom> | Which is also equivalent to: Every terminating program terminates in a finite number of steps, so it must terminate. |
| 2023-06-22 00:01:57 +0200 | <monochrom> | The problem is in all cases you still can't predict how many steps / what length you have to check and call it a day. |
| 2023-06-22 00:02:01 +0200 | <EvanR> | what, no |
| 2023-06-22 00:02:27 +0200 | <sm> | fromRationalRepetend works beautifully |
| 2023-06-22 00:02:48 +0200 | <monochrom> | Although, the bright side is at least they are not not-enumerable. |
| 2023-06-22 00:02:54 +0200 | <EvanR> | there is an upper limit, namely, 2^bits in your state space. You can't take more steps than that before looping |
| 2023-06-22 00:03:09 +0200 | <EvanR> | turing was using infinite tape to work with |
| 2023-06-22 00:03:56 +0200 | exeo | (~Ozymandia@97-119-96-49.omah.qwest.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2023-06-22 00:03:58 +0200 | <EvanR> | any given turing machine might use all of it |
| 2023-06-22 00:04:15 +0200 | <hpc> | there's a really cool busy-beaver idea based on monochrom's comment |
| 2023-06-22 00:04:34 +0200 | <monochrom> | Are you assuming that every rational number is of the form <integer>/<natural number that has only 64 bits> ? |
| 2023-06-22 00:04:35 +0200 | <hpc> | where you construct a program that terminates iff $some_property |
| 2023-06-22 00:05:02 +0200 | <hpc> | like the consistency of zfc |
| 2023-06-22 00:05:03 +0200 | <EvanR> | the amount of state you need is bounded, but the bound is different for each pair of numbers |
| 2023-06-22 00:05:13 +0200 | <EvanR> | it's not a mystery |
| 2023-06-22 00:06:16 +0200 | <monochrom> | OK I see, you are given "it's 1/72.33". |
| 2023-06-22 00:07:33 +0200 | chexum | (~quassel@gateway/tor-sasl/chexum) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2023-06-22 00:07:52 +0200 | oo_miguel | (~Thunderbi@78.11.179.96) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2023-06-22 00:08:04 +0200 | chexum | (~quassel@gateway/tor-sasl/chexum) |
| 2023-06-22 00:09:19 +0200 | <EvanR> | after each step make sure the remainder for that step is less than the divisor (i.e. you didn't mess up) -- so this gives the bound of 'the divisor' for any given problem |
| 2023-06-22 00:13:48 +0200 | segfaultfizzbuzz | (~segfaultf@12.172.217.142) |
| 2023-06-22 00:14:18 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@c-001-001-001.client.esciencecenter.eduvpn.nl) |
| 2023-06-22 00:18:08 +0200 | segfaultfizzbuzz | (~segfaultf@12.172.217.142) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2023-06-22 00:19:12 +0200 | taupiqueur3 | (~taupiqueu@2a02:842a:8180:4601:7129:fa0f:75f4:74d9) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2023-06-22 00:23:05 +0200 | eggplantade | (~Eggplanta@2600:1700:38c5:d800:38f8:4900:37c0:4176) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2023-06-22 00:26:06 +0200 | EvanR_ | (~EvanR@user/evanr) |
| 2023-06-22 00:27:00 +0200 | EvanR | (~EvanR@user/evanr) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2023-06-22 00:27:29 +0200 | finn | (~finn@176-151-21-224.abo.bbox.fr) |
| 2023-06-22 00:30:03 +0200 | nicole | (ilbelkyr@libera/staff/ilbelkyr) (*.net *.split) |
| 2023-06-22 00:32:10 +0200 | <finn> | after building ghc, why git status shows a diff --git a/libraries/unix b/libraries/unix |
| 2023-06-22 00:32:26 +0200 | <Hecate> | because it's a submodule |
| 2023-06-22 00:32:30 +0200 | <Hecate> | a git submodule |
| 2023-06-22 00:32:33 +0200 | <Hecate> | and these are the devil |
| 2023-06-22 00:32:46 +0200 | <finn> | -Subproject commit 720debbf5b89366007bac473e8d7fd18e4114f1a |
| 2023-06-22 00:32:48 +0200 | <finn> | +Subproject commit 720debbf5b89366007bac473e8d7fd18e4114f1a-dirty |
| 2023-06-22 00:33:03 +0200 | <Hecate> | aye |
| 2023-06-22 00:33:33 +0200 | <finn> | i sometimes have trouble git pull from such a dirty directory |
| 2023-06-22 00:33:54 +0200 | <finn> | why it's the devil ? |
| 2023-06-22 00:35:09 +0200 | Tuplanolla | (~Tuplanoll@91-159-68-236.elisa-laajakaista.fi) (Quit: Leaving.) |
| 2023-06-22 00:36:12 +0200 | enoq | (~enoq@2a05:1141:1f5:5600:b9c9:721a:599:bfe7) (Quit: enoq) |
| 2023-06-22 00:41:26 +0200 | waleee | (~waleee@2001:9b0:21c:4000:5bf9:6515:c030:57b7) |
| 2023-06-22 00:42:10 +0200 | bgs | (~bgs@212-85-160-171.dynamic.telemach.net) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2023-06-22 00:48:40 +0200 | taupiqueur3 | (~taupiqueu@2a02-842a-8180-4601-7129-fa0f-75f4-74d9.rev.sfr.net) |
| 2023-06-22 00:48:56 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@c-001-001-001.client.esciencecenter.eduvpn.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2023-06-22 00:49:31 +0200 | harveypwca | (~harveypwc@2601:246:c180:a570:3828:d8:e523:3f67) |
| 2023-06-22 00:50:03 +0200 | Pickchea | (~private@user/pickchea) (Quit: Leaving) |
| 2023-06-22 00:51:36 +0200 | <geekosaur> | because of this among other things |
| 2023-06-22 00:52:52 +0200 | <geekosaur> | seems like I always have to nuke and refetch that submodule in particular |
| 2023-06-22 00:53:00 +0200 | machinedgod | (~machinedg@d198-53-218-113.abhsia.telus.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2023-06-22 00:53:07 +0200 | <geekosaur> | git doesn't handle submodules very well |
| 2023-06-22 00:53:32 +0200 | taupiqueur3 | (~taupiqueu@2a02-842a-8180-4601-7129-fa0f-75f4-74d9.rev.sfr.net) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 2023-06-22 00:56:12 +0200 | sm | prudently sticking with manual subrepos still |
| 2023-06-22 00:58:32 +0200 | segfaultfizzbuzz | (~segfaultf@12.172.217.142) |
| 2023-06-22 01:00:40 +0200 | finn | (~finn@176-151-21-224.abo.bbox.fr) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2023-06-22 01:04:00 +0200 | __monty__ | (~toonn@user/toonn) (Quit: leaving) |
| 2023-06-22 01:07:37 +0200 | enoq | (~enoq@2a05:1141:1f5:5600:b9c9:721a:599:bfe7) |
| 2023-06-22 01:22:36 +0200 | nate2 | (~nate@98.45.169.16) |
| 2023-06-22 01:22:48 +0200 | <hpc> | there have even been cves related to submodules in the past |
| 2023-06-22 01:22:54 +0200 | EvanR | (~EvanR@user/evanr) |
| 2023-06-22 01:23:35 +0200 | eggplantade | (~Eggplanta@2600:1700:38c5:d800:38f8:4900:37c0:4176) |
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| 2023-06-22 01:40:03 +0200 | user____ | (~user@x5271795e.dyn.telefonica.de) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2023-06-22 01:44:14 +0200 | pavonia | (~user@user/siracusa) |
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| 2023-06-22 01:51:47 +0200 | mauke_ | (~mauke@user/mauke) |
| 2023-06-22 01:51:52 +0200 | segfaultfizzbuzz | (~segfaultf@12.172.217.142) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
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| 2023-06-22 01:53:28 +0200 | mauke_ | mauke |
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| 2023-06-22 01:57:59 +0200 | Guest|99 | (~Guest|99@ip5f5bebe3.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) |
| 2023-06-22 01:58:14 +0200 | Guest|99 | (~Guest|99@ip5f5bebe3.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) (Client Quit) |
| 2023-06-22 01:58:31 +0200 | eggplantade | (~Eggplanta@2600:1700:38c5:d800:38f8:4900:37c0:4176) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2023-06-22 01:59:03 +0200 | taupiqueur3 | (~taupiqueu@2a02-842a-8180-4601-7129-fa0f-75f4-74d9.rev.sfr.net) |
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| 2023-06-22 02:03:55 +0200 | Athas | (athas@sigkill.dk) (Server closed connection) |
| 2023-06-22 02:03:56 +0200 | taupiqueur3 | (~taupiqueu@2a02-842a-8180-4601-7129-fa0f-75f4-74d9.rev.sfr.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
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| 2023-06-22 02:23:36 +0200 | rf | (~rf@2605:59c8:179c:f610:b924:5d99:d3fe:ccc6) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
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| 2023-06-22 02:27:16 +0200 | wroathe | (~wroathe@207-153-38-140.fttp.usinternet.com) (Changing host) |
| 2023-06-22 02:27:16 +0200 | wroathe | (~wroathe@user/wroathe) |
| 2023-06-22 02:29:19 +0200 | segfaultfizzbuzz | (~segfaultf@12.172.217.142) |
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| 2023-06-22 02:31:38 +0200 | nicole | (ilbelkyr@libera/staff/ilbelkyr) |
| 2023-06-22 02:34:26 +0200 | oo_miguel | (~Thunderbi@78-11-179-96.static.ip.netia.com.pl) |
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| 2023-06-22 03:50:28 +0200 | hugo | (znc@2001:6b0:17:f0a0::17) |
| 2023-06-22 03:51:38 +0200 | smalltalkman | (uid545680@id-545680.hampstead.irccloud.com) |
| 2023-06-22 03:55:49 +0200 | taupiqueur3 | (~taupiqueu@2a02:842a:8180:4601:7129:fa0f:75f4:74d9) |
| 2023-06-22 04:00:03 +0200 | ryanbooker | (uid4340@id-4340.hampstead.irccloud.com) |
| 2023-06-22 04:00:12 +0200 | taupiqueur3 | (~taupiqueu@2a02:842a:8180:4601:7129:fa0f:75f4:74d9) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2023-06-22 04:05:19 +0200 | haveo | (~haveo@sl35.iuwt.fr) (Quit: Lost terminal) |
| 2023-06-22 04:05:51 +0200 | haveo | (~haveo@sl35.iuwt.fr) |
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| 2023-06-22 04:12:55 +0200 | Nokurn | (~jeremiah@cpe-76-86-186-227.socal.res.rr.com) |
| 2023-06-22 04:15:25 +0200 | nate2 | (~nate@c-98-45-169-16.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 2023-06-22 04:19:50 +0200 | finn_elija | (~finn_elij@user/finn-elija/x-0085643) |
| 2023-06-22 04:19:50 +0200 | FinnElija | (~finn_elij@user/finn-elija/x-0085643) (Killed (NickServ (Forcing logout FinnElija -> finn_elija))) |
| 2023-06-22 04:19:50 +0200 | finn_elija | FinnElija |
| 2023-06-22 04:21:02 +0200 | segfaultfizzbuzz | (~segfaultf@12.172.217.142) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
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| 2023-06-22 04:31:00 +0200 | segfaultfizzbuzz | (~segfaultf@12.172.217.142) |
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| 2023-06-22 04:34:26 +0200 | td_ | (~td@i5387092F.versanet.de) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2023-06-22 04:36:20 +0200 | td_ | (~td@i53870903.versanet.de) |
| 2023-06-22 04:37:44 +0200 | cafkafk | (~cafkafk@fsf/member/cafkafk) |
| 2023-06-22 04:44:44 +0200 | codaraxis__ | (~codaraxis@user/codaraxis) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2023-06-22 05:03:34 +0200 | [itchyjunk] | (~itchyjunk@user/itchyjunk/x-7353470) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2023-06-22 05:07:37 +0200 | EvanR | (~EvanR@user/evanr) |
| 2023-06-22 05:07:38 +0200 | xff0x_ | (~xff0x@125x103x176x34.ap125.ftth.ucom.ne.jp) |
| 2023-06-22 05:08:27 +0200 | jargon | (~jargon@32.sub-174-205-224.myvzw.com) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2023-06-22 05:08:46 +0200 | jero98772 | (~jero98772@2800:484:1d7f:5d36::4) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2023-06-22 05:09:11 +0200 | <EvanR> | does this type have a standard name data T a b = Leaf a | Branch b (T a b) (T a b) |
| 2023-06-22 05:09:16 +0200 | machinedgod | (~machinedg@198.53.218.113) |
| 2023-06-22 05:10:27 +0200 | <monochrom> | Good news: It does. Bad news: The same standard name as the other two kinds of binary trees. And the standard name of all three is: binary trees. |
| 2023-06-22 05:11:32 +0200 | exeo | (~Ozymandia@97-119-96-49.omah.qwest.net) |
| 2023-06-22 05:18:32 +0200 | nate2 | (~nate@c-98-45-169-16.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 2023-06-22 05:20:27 +0200 | aforemny_ | (~aforemny@2001:9e8:6cc2:a900:fbea:dfb3:5fb7:629) |
| 2023-06-22 05:20:56 +0200 | aforemny | (~aforemny@i59F516E6.versanet.de) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2023-06-22 05:22:35 +0200 | jargon | (~jargon@32.sub-174-205-224.myvzw.com) |
| 2023-06-22 05:24:48 +0200 | phma | (~phma@host-67-44-208-160.hnremote.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2023-06-22 05:25:20 +0200 | phma | (phma@2001:5b0:211f:2f08:cc02:19f0:c9b8:d000) |
| 2023-06-22 05:26:12 +0200 | hugo | (znc@2001:6b0:17:f0a0::17) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2023-06-22 05:27:52 +0200 | <EvanR> | alright, but "binary tree" won't be accepted as code |
| 2023-06-22 05:28:48 +0200 | <EvanR> | and BinaryTree is rather long for a simple haskell type |
| 2023-06-22 05:29:24 +0200 | <monochrom> | Right, I randomly choose from {T, B, BT, BinTree} |
| 2023-06-22 05:29:51 +0200 | <monochrom> | And I forgot that there is a 4th kind, too. :) |
| 2023-06-22 05:29:53 +0200 | <EvanR> | dang I guessed it |
| 2023-06-22 05:34:38 +0200 | codaraxis | (~codaraxis@user/codaraxis) |
| 2023-06-22 05:35:59 +0200 | bjs | (sid190364@user/bjs) (Server closed connection) |
| 2023-06-22 05:36:37 +0200 | bjs | (sid190364@user/bjs) |
| 2023-06-22 05:40:26 +0200 | wroathe | (~wroathe@user/wroathe) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2023-06-22 05:42:50 +0200 | hugo | (znc@verdigris.lysator.liu.se) |
| 2023-06-22 05:44:44 +0200 | Flow | (~none@gentoo/developer/flow) (Server closed connection) |
| 2023-06-22 05:45:24 +0200 | Flow | (~none@gentoo/developer/flow) |
| 2023-06-22 05:47:13 +0200 | emmanuelux | (~emmanuelu@user/emmanuelux) (Quit: au revoir) |
| 2023-06-22 05:49:26 +0200 | taupiqueur3 | (~taupiqueu@2a02:842a:8180:4601:7129:fa0f:75f4:74d9) |
| 2023-06-22 05:53:52 +0200 | taupiqueur3 | (~taupiqueu@2a02:842a:8180:4601:7129:fa0f:75f4:74d9) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2023-06-22 05:57:07 +0200 | ai5lk | (~ai5lk@209-188-121-236.taosnet.com) |
| 2023-06-22 05:57:56 +0200 | ai5lk | shef |
| 2023-06-22 05:59:16 +0200 | bilegeek | (~bilegeek@2600:1008:b00e:5a77:40a7:94d2:c95b:3605) |
| 2023-06-22 06:01:12 +0200 | segfaultfizzbuzz | (~segfaultf@12.172.217.142) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2023-06-22 06:08:57 +0200 | _ht | (~Thunderbi@28-52-174-82.ftth.glasoperator.nl) |
| 2023-06-22 06:09:51 +0200 | ryanbooker | (uid4340@id-4340.hampstead.irccloud.com) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) |
| 2023-06-22 06:17:53 +0200 | EvanR_ | (~EvanR@user/evanr) |
| 2023-06-22 06:18:07 +0200 | EvanR | (~EvanR@user/evanr) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
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| 2023-06-22 06:19:53 +0200 | harveypwca | (~harveypwc@2601:246:c180:a570:3828:d8:e523:3f67) (Quit: Leaving) |
| 2023-06-22 06:24:26 +0200 | taupiqueur3 | (~taupiqueu@2a02-842a-8180-4601-7129-fa0f-75f4-74d9.rev.sfr.net) |
| 2023-06-22 06:31:15 +0200 | Moyst | (~moyst@user/moyst) (Server closed connection) |
| 2023-06-22 06:32:12 +0200 | machinedgod | (~machinedg@198.53.218.113) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2023-06-22 06:32:31 +0200 | Moyst | (~moyst@user/moyst) |
| 2023-06-22 06:33:01 +0200 | jargon | (~jargon@32.sub-174-205-224.myvzw.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2023-06-22 06:33:53 +0200 | Guest|59 | (~Guest|59@107.127.46.21) |
| 2023-06-22 06:34:32 +0200 | cafkafk | (~cafkafk@fsf/member/cafkafk) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2023-06-22 06:36:57 +0200 | cafkafk | (~cafkafk@fsf/member/cafkafk) |
| 2023-06-22 06:38:25 +0200 | <Guest|59> | Greetings. I just started the book, "Introduction to Computation" by Wadler Sannella and others. Maybe it's just me but it doesn't seem to give very good instructions on getting started with haskell; and I'm lost with the instructions from the website. Download this, download that, then a package page the link to which gives the impression to |
| 2023-06-22 06:38:26 +0200 | <Guest|59> | download something but on the page there's nothing to download, a maze of dead ends? So I tried the main method - copied and pasted the command into powershell, kept getting errors the other night so I copied and pasted a command from a troubleshooting page, then ran into more road blocks so gave up that night. Finally tonight the main command |
| 2023-06-22 06:38:27 +0200 | <Guest|59> | works, but hit another road block: |
| 2023-06-22 06:38:27 +0200 | <Guest|59> | curl failed to verify the legitimacy of the server and therefore could not |
| 2023-06-22 06:38:27 +0200 | <Guest|59> | establish a secure connection to it. To learn more about this situation and |
| 2023-06-22 06:38:28 +0200 | <Guest|59> | how to fix it, please visit the web page mentioned above. |
| 2023-06-22 06:38:29 +0200 | <Guest|59> | I looked at that link and it's just more jibberish. |
| 2023-06-22 06:38:29 +0200 | <Guest|59> | Seriously why is this so difficult?!?!?! |
| 2023-06-22 06:40:06 +0200 | <Axman6> | I've never heard of that book, but if it's relatively old, the installation instructions have probably changed quite a lot. these days thebest way to get started with haskell is to use ghcup |
| 2023-06-22 06:40:30 +0200 | Guest|17 | (~Guest|17@122-58-23-13-fibre.sparkbb.co.nz) |
| 2023-06-22 06:40:40 +0200 | Guest|17 | (~Guest|17@122-58-23-13-fibre.sparkbb.co.nz) (Client Quit) |
| 2023-06-22 06:41:05 +0200 | <Guest|59> | Yes, that's what I finally did: |
| 2023-06-22 06:41:05 +0200 | <Guest|59> | I copied and pasted the command from the ghcup page into powershell, and then I got the above curl error! (That might've been the one I got the other night too, don't remember) |
| 2023-06-22 06:41:06 +0200 | <Axman6> | Also, please don't just paste a whole bunch of test into IRC, if you need to say something long, a pastebin website can be useful for gathering your thoughts, including showing us code and impoortantly, error messages |
| 2023-06-22 06:41:10 +0200 | <Axman6> | @where paste |
| 2023-06-22 06:41:10 +0200 | <lambdabot> | Help us help you: please paste full code, input and/or output at e.g. https://paste.tomsmeding.com |
| 2023-06-22 06:41:34 +0200 | shef | (~ai5lk@209-188-121-236.taosnet.com) (Quit: WeeChat 3.8) |
| 2023-06-22 06:42:10 +0200 | <Axman6> | I'm surprised you would get a curl error on windows, I assume you're using WSL2/ |
| 2023-06-22 06:42:30 +0200 | <Guest|59> | This is all I pasted, this is the error I'm getting: |
| 2023-06-22 06:42:31 +0200 | <Guest|59> | curl failed to verify the legitimacy of the server and therefore could not |
| 2023-06-22 06:42:31 +0200 | <Guest|59> | establish a secure connection to it. To learn more about this situation and |
| 2023-06-22 06:42:32 +0200 | <Guest|59> | how to fix it, please visit the web page mentioned above. |
| 2023-06-22 06:42:32 +0200 | <Guest|59> | One of the haskell sites linked to this site for help, is this not the right place for help? |
| 2023-06-22 06:43:59 +0200 | <Axman6> | yes it is the right place for help, but asking for help can be done poorly or well. Showing us what you _actually did_ and then what error you got means we don't have to guess. please paste, using the link above, the command you ran and the error you got |
| 2023-06-22 06:43:59 +0200 | <Guest|59> | What's wsl2? |
| 2023-06-22 06:44:09 +0200 | <monochrom> | Lack of people who have time to work on the failed-to-verify-server problem on Windows is why there are so many roadblocks on Windows. |
| 2023-06-22 06:44:13 +0200 | <Axman6> | windows subsystem for linux |
| 2023-06-22 06:44:14 +0200 | segfaultfizzbuzz | (~segfaultf@12.172.217.142) |
| 2023-06-22 06:45:00 +0200 | <Axman6> | Guest|59: did you read the documentation about the problem you're describing? https://www.haskell.org/ghcup/guide/#certificate-authority-errors-curl |
| 2023-06-22 06:51:24 +0200 | <Axman6> | Guest|59: did that help? I understand how you feel, it's pretty frustrating when you're just trying to get started and all the instructions are out of date. We're happy to help, you just need to let us know what you've tried and what went wrong |
| 2023-06-22 06:51:27 +0200 | <Guest|59> | Thanks and my humble apologies - this all seems insanely unnecessary even for a linux-emphasized project so sorry for my frustrations - but pretty sure I did. Other than what the book suggests (I intentionally skipped that part above), what I said above was: |
| 2023-06-22 06:51:27 +0200 | <Guest|59> | 1) I went to the ghcup page (I have so many tabs up trying to do this, I thought the ghcup page would be obvious but to be explicit: |
| 2023-06-22 06:51:28 +0200 | <Guest|59> | https://www.haskell.org/ghcup/ |
| 2023-06-22 06:51:28 +0200 | <Guest|59> | ) |
| 2023-06-22 06:51:29 +0200 | <Guest|59> | 2) I copied its command from there |
| 2023-06-22 06:51:29 +0200 | <Guest|59> | 3) pasted into a powershell |
| 2023-06-22 06:51:30 +0200 | <Guest|59> | 4) tonight it worked, the other night I had to copy and paste the command from the troubleshooting page |
| 2023-06-22 06:51:30 +0200 | <Guest|59> | 5) entered the default options in the prompts |
| 2023-06-22 06:51:31 +0200 | <Guest|59> | 6) don't remember up until the curl error, above. |
| 2023-06-22 06:51:31 +0200 | <Guest|59> | Axman6: that looks familiar I'm certain I was there the other day. |
| 2023-06-22 06:51:32 +0200 | <Guest|59> | So when it says, |
| 2023-06-22 06:51:32 +0200 | <Guest|59> | "On windows, you can disable curl like so:" |
| 2023-06-22 06:51:33 +0200 | <Guest|59> | and then gives the command to copy below, do I just put that into a powershell and rerun the command from the ghcup page? |
| 2023-06-22 06:53:04 +0200 | <probie> | I think all you need to do is run that command |
| 2023-06-22 06:53:12 +0200 | <Axman6> | which command did you copy? There are two ways to install on windows (because windows now can't make up its mind if it's windows or linux these days) |
| 2023-06-22 06:53:58 +0200 | <mauke> | in general, don't paste multi-line stuff into IRC. when you said "this is all I pasted", that was three lines |
| 2023-06-22 06:54:19 +0200 | <mauke> | when you say you copied "its command", what was the actual command? |
| 2023-06-22 06:54:48 +0200 | <monochrom> | I think powershell pretty much means not WSL. |
| 2023-06-22 06:54:49 +0200 | <Axman6> | I have a feeling their irc client is doing something really strange - Guest|59 you're not writing out a whole bunch of text and pasting it in here right? |
| 2023-06-22 06:55:05 +0200 | <Guest|59> | Well, it failed the other night but tonight it worked: |
| 2023-06-22 06:55:06 +0200 | <Guest|59> | The one front and center from the ghcup page...? |
| 2023-06-22 06:56:09 +0200 | takuan | (~takuan@178-116-218-225.access.telenet.be) |
| 2023-06-22 06:56:10 +0200 | <mauke> | please be explicit. "the ghcup page" is vague; the actual URL is better. "the command on the page" is vague; the actual command is better. |
| 2023-06-22 06:56:26 +0200 | <mauke> | you're assuming everyone is on the same page (hah) |
| 2023-06-22 06:56:32 +0200 | <Axman6> | they gave the URL, but "the command" isn't clear |
| 2023-06-22 06:56:46 +0200 | <Nosrep> | the one that starts with Set-ExecutionPolicy? |
| 2023-06-22 06:56:50 +0200 | <mauke> | I don't know if it always shows the same command or if it's tailored to the OS you're on |
| 2023-06-22 06:57:18 +0200 | <mauke> | the command that's "front and center" for me is: curl --proto '=https' --tlsv1.2 -sSf https://get-ghcup.haskell.org | sh |
| 2023-06-22 06:57:21 +0200 | <Axman6> | it does change depending on your OS (because windows is a mess) |
| 2023-06-22 06:57:22 +0200 | <mauke> | and that won't work on windows |
| 2023-06-22 06:58:10 +0200 | <Nosrep> | mauke: i checked with user agent switcher extension for windows and the big command is the Set-ExecutionPolicy one (there are only 2, one for unixes one for windowses) |
| 2023-06-22 06:58:10 +0200 | <Axman6> | well, it might, if you're using WSL2 (which it says above) |
| 2023-06-22 06:58:12 +0200 | <Guest|59> | Well I honestly dont' know what you want, when you ask "which command did [I] copy and paste" but the command is several lines long and a pop up asked me am I sure if I want to put it in the chat........ lol |
| 2023-06-22 06:58:12 +0200 | <Guest|59> | OH. Well I just go the the url, |
| 2023-06-22 06:58:13 +0200 | <Guest|59> | https://www.haskell.org/ghcup/ |
| 2023-06-22 06:58:13 +0200 | <Guest|59> | and there's only one command on that page as far as I can see. |
| 2023-06-22 06:58:14 +0200 | <Guest|59> | OK that would explain a lot. |
| 2023-06-22 06:58:14 +0200 | <Guest|59> | So... is there a ghcup page with a command for windows? |
| 2023-06-22 06:58:38 +0200 | <mauke> | yes. it's the one you linked |
| 2023-06-22 06:58:51 +0200 | <Guest|59> | Yeah it says to install on windows: |
| 2023-06-22 06:58:52 +0200 | <Guest|59> | To install on Windows |
| 2023-06-22 06:58:52 +0200 | <Guest|59> | run the following in a PowerShell session (as a non-admin user): |
| 2023-06-22 06:58:53 +0200 | <Axman6> | Guest|59: what does the command start with? what's the first like 20 characters |
| 2023-06-22 06:59:02 +0200 | <Guest|59> | directly copy and pasted from the page btw |
| 2023-06-22 06:59:02 +0200 | <Nosrep> | if it says powershell that's the windows one |
| 2023-06-22 06:59:04 +0200 | <Guest|59> | ok hold on: |
| 2023-06-22 06:59:14 +0200 | <mauke> | Guest|59: if you can copy the description, why can't you copy the command? |
| 2023-06-22 06:59:14 +0200 | <Guest|59> | Set-ExecutionPolicy Bypass -Scope Process -Force;[System.Net.ServicePointMan |
| 2023-06-22 06:59:21 +0200 | <Axman6> | great, ok |
| 2023-06-22 06:59:22 +0200 | <mauke> | ah |
| 2023-06-22 06:59:26 +0200 | <mauke> | yeah, that's powershell code |
| 2023-06-22 06:59:47 +0200 | taupiqueur3 | (~taupiqueu@2a02-842a-8180-4601-7129-fa0f-75f4-74d9.rev.sfr.net) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 2023-06-22 06:59:51 +0200 | <Guest|59> | Right. That's where I entered it at, accepted the defaults in the prompts, and eventually got the curl error |
| 2023-06-22 07:00:04 +0200 | <Axman6> | ok, right at the end of this page, the final code block is a powershell command that's supposed to fix that: https://www.haskell.org/ghcup/guide/#certificate-authority-errors-curl |
| 2023-06-22 07:01:20 +0200 | <Guest|59> | Ah! I did do that the other night, b/c this is where I gave up: |
| 2023-06-22 07:01:21 +0200 | <Guest|59> | Now I apologize, I don't know how else to convey the pop up's (Mingw) error but it is two lines: |
| 2023-06-22 07:01:21 +0200 | <Guest|59> | ERROR: The certificate of ‘www.haskell.org’ is not trusted. |
| 2023-06-22 07:01:22 +0200 | <Guest|59> | ERROR: The certificate of ‘www.haskell.org’ doesn't have a known issuer. |
| 2023-06-22 07:01:48 +0200 | <Axman6> | how is windows so broken that it can't verify the haskell.org cert -____- |
| 2023-06-22 07:02:35 +0200 | <Guest|59> | Windows 10 I believe |
| 2023-06-22 07:02:38 +0200 | <mauke> | huh. that's almost (but not quite) identical to the main install command |
| 2023-06-22 07:03:17 +0200 | <Guest|59> | 64 bit |
| 2023-06-22 07:03:17 +0200 | <Guest|59> | Windows 10 Home |
| 2023-06-22 07:03:18 +0200 | <Guest|59> | AMD Ryzen 5Â Â Â 3550H with Radeon Vega Mobile Gfx 2.10 GHz |
| 2023-06-22 07:03:18 +0200 | <Guest|59> | 7.81 GB of usable ram |
| 2023-06-22 07:03:19 +0200 | <Guest|59> | I don't know if any of this will help |
| 2023-06-22 07:04:05 +0200 | <Nosrep> | seems more like a weird installation issue than a specs issue |
| 2023-06-22 07:04:22 +0200 | <Axman6> | nah this is a windows problem,. not a you problem (as far as I can tell anyway). |
| 2023-06-22 07:04:28 +0200 | <mauke> | random shot in the dark: is your system date correct? |
| 2023-06-22 07:05:20 +0200 | <Guest|59> | At least the one in lower right corner is: 6/22/2023 (I don't know if there's a separate 'system date' where they should be insync etc) |
| 2023-06-22 07:05:47 +0200 | <mauke> | nah, that should be fine |
| 2023-06-22 07:06:01 +0200 | <glguy> | It's probably just an out of date install. haskell.org uses the ISRG Root X1 that was a big thing to migrate to a couple of years ago |
| 2023-06-22 07:08:37 +0200 | <Guest|59> | Any ideas? I mean, there's been plenty to download haskell since that migration right? idk, just really odd... |
| 2023-06-22 07:09:27 +0200 | <Guest|59> | Ah yes, the book says something about the haskell platform - which has been deprecated. Not that that helps... |
| 2023-06-22 07:10:14 +0200 | <Nosrep> | if you're a little familiar with powershell (which i am not) you could just download the ps1 file through a browser and run it with the arguments |
| 2023-06-22 07:10:23 +0200 | <monochrom> | glguy: Now I'm interested. Which piece of software is out of date? |
| 2023-06-22 07:12:49 +0200 | <mauke> | there are also manual installation instructions: https://www.haskell.org/ghcup/install/#windows_1 |
| 2023-06-22 07:12:52 +0200 | <Guest|59> | ps1 file? |
| 2023-06-22 07:12:53 +0200 | <mauke> | but they look kinda involved |
| 2023-06-22 07:13:32 +0200 | <glguy> | It's been about 2 years, I think, but when Let's Encrypt switched their root certificate to the R3 (I think) certificate and stopped (I think) cross signing, people who had outdated root certificate bundles had issues |
| 2023-06-22 07:13:39 +0200 | <Guest|59> | I think I tried that too before the troubleshooting page command (sorry I don't remember), I'll give it another go |
| 2023-06-22 07:14:30 +0200 | <glguy> | It was something I had to deal with because libera.chat used let's encrypt to and it was causing people to not be able to connect to irc without updates |
| 2023-06-22 07:14:56 +0200 | <glguy> | and haskell.org is signed by that same cert |
| 2023-06-22 07:15:27 +0200 | michalz | (~michalz@185.246.207.203) |
| 2023-06-22 07:16:16 +0200 | <glguy> | https://libera.chat/news/letsencrypt-ca-expiry |
| 2023-06-22 07:16:52 +0200 | <glguy> | That's what I was thinking of |
| 2023-06-22 07:17:21 +0200 | <Axman6> | Guest|59: the conversation in here might be useful: https://github.com/haskell/ghcup-hs/issues/836 |
| 2023-06-22 07:17:46 +0200 | coot | (~coot@89-69-206-216.dynamic.chello.pl) |
| 2023-06-22 07:18:04 +0200 | myxos | (~myxos@cpe-65-28-251-121.cinci.res.rr.com) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2023-06-22 07:19:45 +0200 | <Axman6> | "I ran into the same problem and fixed by using Powershell 5 instead of 7." urgh. Guest|59 can you make sure you've installed all available os updates? clutching at straws though, it's crazy that windows is this broken |
| 2023-06-22 07:20:58 +0200 | <mauke> | wait, so they made it work by using an older version? |
| 2023-06-22 07:21:36 +0200 | <Guest|59> | OK. So I have the following: make sure os is up to date, and try the manual install page mauke suggested again. |
| 2023-06-22 07:21:37 +0200 | <Guest|59> | Thanks guys, it's getting late I'm off to bed. |
| 2023-06-22 07:21:37 +0200 | <Guest|59> | Can I give my email in case you have any further developments? |
| 2023-06-22 07:22:17 +0200 | <mauke> | I'm not a support center, I'm just another random user like you |
| 2023-06-22 07:23:16 +0200 | <Guest|59> | Yea the conversation axman6 found, and a reddit post, both suggested turning off anti-virus software, but that's risky. Unless I turn it off for a minute and after installation turn it back on? |
| 2023-06-22 07:23:35 +0200 | <mauke> | I can't provide much assistance here because I don't use windows or powershell (and also this problem is very stupid and annoying) |
| 2023-06-22 07:23:46 +0200 | myxos | (~myxos@cpe-65-28-251-121.cinci.res.rr.com) |
| 2023-06-22 07:24:01 +0200 | <Axman6> | Guest|59: yeah I would try that |
| 2023-06-22 07:24:32 +0200 | <mauke> | I don't see how antivirus would cause certificate errors |
| 2023-06-22 07:24:43 +0200 | <mauke> | messing with downloads, sure |
| 2023-06-22 07:25:50 +0200 | <Guest|59> | OK 3 possible fixes: update windows, try the manual windows update page, and briefly turn off anti-virus. |
| 2023-06-22 07:25:51 +0200 | <Guest|59> | Thanks again everyone. |
| 2023-06-22 07:27:16 +0200 | <maerwald[m]> | Seems windows needs some investigation |
| 2023-06-22 07:27:22 +0200 | <Axman6> | Good luck, and feel free to come back to ask for help. There are some alternatives we could try, like using WSL2 |
| 2023-06-22 07:27:42 +0200 | <Axman6> | I think WSL is basically what most people do these days, it finally makes windows a sane dev platform |
| 2023-06-22 07:28:00 +0200 | Guest|59 | (~Guest|59@107.127.46.21) (Quit: Connection closed) |
| 2023-06-22 07:28:00 +0200 | <mauke> | Guest|59: the manual steps are mainly for tracking down which exact step fails. I don't have much hope of them succeeding completely |
| 2023-06-22 07:36:56 +0200 | azimut | (~azimut@gateway/tor-sasl/azimut) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2023-06-22 07:39:49 +0200 | _ht | (~Thunderbi@28-52-174-82.ftth.glasoperator.nl) (Quit: _ht) |
| 2023-06-22 07:41:00 +0200 | falafel | (~falafel@2607:fb91:86c:d890:ceb9:44cc:308:b21) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2023-06-22 07:48:12 +0200 | taupiqueur3 | (~taupiqueu@2a02-842a-8180-4601-7129-fa0f-75f4-74d9.rev.sfr.net) |
| 2023-06-22 07:53:07 +0200 | taupiqueur3 | (~taupiqueu@2a02-842a-8180-4601-7129-fa0f-75f4-74d9.rev.sfr.net) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 2023-06-22 08:05:37 +0200 | jonathan_ | (~jonathan@c83-252-3-92.bredband.tele2.se) |
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| 2023-06-22 08:07:42 +0200 | mauke | (~mauke@user/mauke) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 2023-06-22 08:09:56 +0200 | foul_owl | (~kerry@94.140.8.28) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 2023-06-22 08:10:38 +0200 | taupiqueur3 | (~taupiqueu@2a02-842a-8180-4601-7129-fa0f-75f4-74d9.rev.sfr.net) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2023-06-22 08:17:25 +0200 | Square | (~Square@user/square) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2023-06-22 08:17:36 +0200 | johnw | (~johnw@76-234-69-149.lightspeed.frokca.sbcglobal.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2023-06-22 08:17:54 +0200 | johnw | (~johnw@76-234-69-149.lightspeed.frokca.sbcglobal.net) |
| 2023-06-22 08:23:41 +0200 | P1RATEZ | (piratez@user/p1ratez) |
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| 2023-06-22 08:32:08 +0200 | segfaultfizzbuzz | (~segfaultf@12.172.217.142) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) |
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| 2023-06-22 08:41:03 +0200 | taupiqueur3 | (~taupiqueu@2a02-842a-8180-4601-7129-fa0f-75f4-74d9.rev.sfr.net) |
| 2023-06-22 08:42:41 +0200 | nut | (~nut@rul16-h01-176-151-21-224.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr) |
| 2023-06-22 08:45:33 +0200 | aforemny_ | aforemny |
| 2023-06-22 08:46:02 +0200 | taupiqueur3 | (~taupiqueu@2a02-842a-8180-4601-7129-fa0f-75f4-74d9.rev.sfr.net) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 2023-06-22 08:48:06 +0200 | fweht | (uid404746@id-404746.lymington.irccloud.com) |
| 2023-06-22 08:50:59 +0200 | diagprov | (sid348783@user/diagprov) (Server closed connection) |
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| 2023-06-22 08:57:50 +0200 | taupiqueur3 | (~taupiqueu@2a02-842a-8180-4601-7129-fa0f-75f4-74d9.rev.sfr.net) |
| 2023-06-22 08:58:32 +0200 | werneta | (~werneta@70-142-214-115.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 2023-06-22 08:59:10 +0200 | <nut> | i;ve successfully built the ghc source from a fresh git pull. but then the build always breaks when i git pull new commits. what's the workflow after the first git pull? |
| 2023-06-22 08:59:53 +0200 | lortabac | (~lortabac@88.125.6.227) |
| 2023-06-22 09:00:37 +0200 | werneta | (~werneta@70-142-214-115.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net) |
| 2023-06-22 09:04:54 +0200 | taupiqueur3 | (~taupiqueu@2a02-842a-8180-4601-7129-fa0f-75f4-74d9.rev.sfr.net) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2023-06-22 09:04:57 +0200 | <probie> | nut: That's probably best asked in #ghc, but you probably need to be using `git pull --recurse-submodules` if you aren't already |
| 2023-06-22 09:05:44 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | nut: probie: the command for after you've already cloned is `git submodule update --init --recursive` |
| 2023-06-22 09:06:00 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | oh wait you said pull, not clone |
| 2023-06-22 09:06:07 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | TIL |
| 2023-06-22 09:06:19 +0200 | shriekingnoise_ | (~shrieking@186.137.175.87) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) |
| 2023-06-22 09:07:16 +0200 | ezzieyguywuf | (~Unknown@user/ezzieyguywuf) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
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| 2023-06-22 09:07:41 +0200 | ezzieyguywuf | (~Unknown@user/ezzieyguywuf) |
| 2023-06-22 09:08:19 +0200 | opqdonut | (opqdonut@pseudo.fixme.fi) (Server closed connection) |
| 2023-06-22 09:08:28 +0200 | opqdonut | (opqdonut@pseudo.fixme.fi) |
| 2023-06-22 09:08:37 +0200 | <nut> | i've clone the first time of course , and the build is successful |
| 2023-06-22 09:08:56 +0200 | <nut> | after the build, there's diff file: libraries/unix |
| 2023-06-22 09:12:00 +0200 | Nokurn | (~jeremiah@cpe-76-86-186-227.socal.res.rr.com) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) |
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| 2023-06-22 09:28:42 +0200 | fendor | (~fendor@2a02:8388:1640:be00:7aca:a77a:4a28:631a) |
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| 2023-06-22 10:32:45 +0200 | taupiqueur3 | (~taupiqueu@2a02-842a-8180-4601-7129-fa0f-75f4-74d9.rev.sfr.net) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2023-06-22 10:36:03 +0200 | MajorBiscuit | (~MajorBisc@2001:1c00:31c:8400:f184:4168:559b:d91b) (Quit: WeeChat 3.6) |
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| 2023-06-22 13:00:47 +0200 | danse-nr3_ | (~francesco@151.44.206.87) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2023-06-22 13:02:25 +0200 | Pickchea | (~private@user/pickchea) (Quit: Leaving) |
| 2023-06-22 13:17:41 +0200 | nate2 | (~nate@c-98-45-169-16.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 2023-06-22 13:17:44 +0200 | segfaultfizzbuzz | (~segfaultf@12.172.217.142) |
| 2023-06-22 13:18:19 +0200 | danse-nr3_ | (~francesco@151.44.206.87) |
| 2023-06-22 13:19:12 +0200 | <lyxia> | in the output of ghc --show-iface MyFile.hi what's the meaning of "Inline: [2]" ? |
| 2023-06-22 13:21:52 +0200 | segfaultfizzbuzz | (~segfaultf@12.172.217.142) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 2023-06-22 13:21:54 +0200 | <probie> | I'm not certain, but assuming if it's the same meaning as the pragma, it means be very keen to inline, but not until phase 2 (perhaps there's a delay so some RULES can fire first?) |
| 2023-06-22 13:22:28 +0200 | nate2 | (~nate@c-98-45-169-16.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) |
| 2023-06-22 13:25:15 +0200 | arrowhead | (~arrowhead@cpe-74-66-76-151.nyc.res.rr.com) |
| 2023-06-22 13:32:02 +0200 | <lyxia> | probie: Thanks, that sounds plausible. |
| 2023-06-22 13:38:22 +0200 | RedNifre | (~RedNifre@dslb-088-072-205-088.088.072.pools.vodafone-ip.de) |
| 2023-06-22 13:38:34 +0200 | <RedNifre> | Hello, I need some words/definitions. |
| 2023-06-22 13:39:08 +0200 | <RedNifre> | I have some code that abstracts over variable length tuples, however, I now also have some tuples that share the ... first type, but not the second? Not sure how to say this. |
| 2023-06-22 13:39:21 +0200 | <RedNifre> | Let's say you have a type of kind * -> *, are there names for the first and second star? |
| 2023-06-22 13:39:46 +0200 | <jade[m]1> | the star syntax is kind of deprecated in a sense |
| 2023-06-22 13:39:56 +0200 | <RedNifre> | Okay, how do you phrase * -> * these days? |
| 2023-06-22 13:40:03 +0200 | <jade[m]1> | because they are both just types |
| 2023-06-22 13:40:04 +0200 | <jade[m]1> | `Type -> Type` |
| 2023-06-22 13:40:11 +0200 | <RedNifre> | okay, great. |
| 2023-06-22 13:41:04 +0200 | <RedNifre> | So, imagine I have a tuple of type (Maybe a, Maybe b, Maybe c, Maybe d), as in I always have variable length tuples, but they always contain Maybes, but the maybes can have any type inside, what's that called? |
| 2023-06-22 13:41:41 +0200 | <RedNifre> | What I'd like is some way to say the tuple is type Tuple 4 Maybe |
| 2023-06-22 13:41:59 +0200 | <RedNifre> | As in it's size 4, it contains Maybes, but the maybes can be whatever. |
| 2023-06-22 13:42:16 +0200 | <ncf> | i don't think there's a standard name for this? it seems rather specific |
| 2023-06-22 13:42:22 +0200 | <jade[m]1> | I don't think you can do this "in general" |
| 2023-06-22 13:42:39 +0200 | <RedNifre> | Right, I can't do this "in general", but is there a name for this pattern? |
| 2023-06-22 13:42:59 +0200 | <RedNifre> | Currently, I have a couple ColumnDefinitionTuple3, TypeTokenTuple4 etc. |
| 2023-06-22 13:43:21 +0200 | <RedNifre> | ... because using tuples would lose the information that the "first" type in a kind Type -> Type is always the same. |
| 2023-06-22 13:43:22 +0200 | <geekosaur> | it doesn't seem like a very common pattern to me |
| 2023-06-22 13:43:22 +0200 | <probie> | Just for tuples, or should it extend to other things (e.g. `Either (Maybe a) (Maybe b)`?) |
| 2023-06-22 13:43:25 +0200 | <jade[m]1> | you could do type MaybeTuple4 a b c d = (Maybe a, Maybe b, Maybe c, Maybe d) and then use MaybeTuple4 Int String (Maybe Int) [Int] |
| 2023-06-22 13:43:31 +0200 | <Lears> | RedNifre: If you can, avoid dealing with tuples and use, e.g. `data HList f xs where { HNil :: HList f '[]; (:~) :: f x -> HList f xs -> HList f (x:xs) }`. |
| 2023-06-22 13:43:52 +0200 | <RedNifre> | jade[m]1: yes, this is what I'm doing right now, I was just wondering if there is a name for this or if it's a known concept. |
| 2023-06-22 13:44:08 +0200 | <jade[m]1> | don't think this is used very often? |
| 2023-06-22 13:44:26 +0200 | <RedNifre> | Lears: Oh, interesting! |
| 2023-06-22 13:44:57 +0200 | <probie> | I think that the pattern of `data Foo f = Foo (f Bar) (f Baz)` isn't that uncommon |
| 2023-06-22 13:45:12 +0200 | <RedNifre> | Hm, okay. I was just wondering because "Tuple containing SameType -> DifferentType" felt like some sort of abstraction. |
| 2023-06-22 13:45:15 +0200 | hanabi | (~hanabi@145.93.112.208) |
| 2023-06-22 13:45:40 +0200 | hanabi | (~hanabi@145.93.112.208) (Client Quit) |
| 2023-06-22 13:45:44 +0200 | <RedNifre> | Yeah, maybe it's two niche to have words for this, eh? |
| 2023-06-22 13:45:48 +0200 | <RedNifre> | *too |
| 2023-06-22 13:46:17 +0200 | <lyxia> | the barbies library deals with that kind of pattern so maybe you can find something useful there |
| 2023-06-22 13:46:27 +0200 | RedNifre | curses his experiment of trying to get an internal monologue, as this has caused nothing but sound related typos. |
| 2023-06-22 13:46:33 +0200 | <jade[m]1> | probie: this resembles some combinator on the term level, forgot which exactly |
| 2023-06-22 13:46:45 +0200 | tromp | (~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) |
| 2023-06-22 13:47:01 +0200 | <lyxia> | It's map Maybe followed by a textual substitution of () with [] |
| 2023-06-22 13:47:16 +0200 | <lyxia> | uh, the substitution the other way around |
| 2023-06-22 13:47:44 +0200 | <RedNifre> | Would it be more straight forward in Idris, maybe? |
| 2023-06-22 13:47:51 +0200 | CiaoSen | (~Jura@2a05:5800:298:5100:664b:f0ff:fe37:9ef) |
| 2023-06-22 13:49:16 +0200 | <jade[m]1> | I was thinking of `on :: (b -> b -> c) -> (a -> b) -> a -> a -> c` |
| 2023-06-22 13:50:01 +0200 | <jade[m]1> | ((+) `on` f) x y = f x + f y |
| 2023-06-22 13:50:06 +0200 | <jade[m]1> | not quite the same |
| 2023-06-22 13:52:28 +0200 | <probie> | RedNifre: it's not particularly awkward in Haskell, it's just that Haskell tuples don't work here, because `(,)`, `(,,)` and `(,,,)` are three completely unrelated types, so you want something like a `HList` |
| 2023-06-22 13:56:31 +0200 | <RedNifre> | probie thanks, I'll look into those. |
| 2023-06-22 13:57:15 +0200 | <RedNifre> | If you have Type1 -> Type2, are there names for Type1 and Type2? Maybe "outer type", "inner type", or "main type", "secondary type" or things like this? |
| 2023-06-22 13:57:29 +0200 | <RedNifre> | .oO( "car type", "cdr type", "cddddrrrr type" ... ) |
| 2023-06-22 13:57:53 +0200 | <ncf> | domain, codomain |
| 2023-06-22 13:58:16 +0200 | <RedNifre> | a -> b -> c is domain, codomain, cocodomain? |
| 2023-06-22 13:58:36 +0200 | <geekosaur> | a -> b -> c is a -> (b -> c) |
| 2023-06-22 13:58:41 +0200 | <RedNifre> | a -> (b -> c) -> d is domain, cododomain, cocodomain, cococodomain? :D |
| 2023-06-22 13:58:49 +0200 | <geekosaur> | so b -> c is the codomain |
| 2023-06-22 13:59:00 +0200 | <RedNifre> | right, but how would you name a, b, c, d? |
| 2023-06-22 13:59:10 +0200 | <geekosaur> | I wouldn't |
| 2023-06-22 13:59:14 +0200 | <ncf> | i don't think english is equipped with a Zipper into trees of arrows |
| 2023-06-22 13:59:34 +0200 | <RedNifre> | Hm, so a b c in a -> b -> c are domain, codomain's domain and codomain's codomain? |
| 2023-06-22 13:59:34 +0200 | <ncf> | i would call them a b c and d lmao |
| 2023-06-22 14:01:04 +0200 | <RedNifre> | yeah, but calling them a b c and d does not work when you want to say "Tuple containing elements of Type -> Type, where the domain is the same type, but the codomain can by anything" |
| 2023-06-22 14:02:08 +0200 | <ncf> | that doesn't really make sense anyway |
| 2023-06-22 14:02:51 +0200 | <ncf> | you mean like, a product type where each factor is Maybe applied to some type |
| 2023-06-22 14:03:05 +0200 | <RedNifre> | Yeah, like a Tuple (Maybe a, Maybe b, Maybe c) |
| 2023-06-22 14:03:11 +0200 | <geekosaur> | lifted HKD? |
| 2023-06-22 14:03:50 +0200 | <RedNifre> | Oh, yeah, that's exactly it I think! |
| 2023-06-22 14:04:25 +0200 | Patternmaster | (~georg@user/Patternmaster) (Quit: leaving) |
| 2023-06-22 14:05:02 +0200 | <ncf> | domain and codomain refer to what's on each side of an arrow. the domain and codomain of Maybe are both Type. the `a` in `Maybe a` is the argument/parameter/operand, while Maybe is the type constructor / operator |
| 2023-06-22 14:05:26 +0200 | kuribas | (~user@ip-188-118-57-242.reverse.destiny.be) |
| 2023-06-22 14:06:07 +0200 | mjs2600 | (~mjs2600@c-174-169-225-239.hsd1.vt.comcast.net) |
| 2023-06-22 14:06:52 +0200 | <ncf> | in symbols, operator : (operand : domain) → (result : codomain) (there are a billion other names for each of these things, of course) |
| 2023-06-22 14:07:03 +0200 | Patternmaster | (~georg@user/Patternmaster) |
| 2023-06-22 14:07:48 +0200 | segfaultfizzbuzz | (~segfaultf@12.172.217.142) |
| 2023-06-22 14:08:16 +0200 | <RedNifre> | nfc Thanks. So in a -> (b -> c) -> d, you could refer to a b c d as a = domain, b = codomain's domain's domain, c= codomain's domain's codomain, d = codomain's codomain ? |
| 2023-06-22 14:08:44 +0200 | <ncf> | you could |
| 2023-06-22 14:10:26 +0200 | mjs2600 | (~mjs2600@c-174-169-225-239.hsd1.vt.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2023-06-22 14:11:23 +0200 | <RedNifre> | What do you think about calling the domain the type and the codomain the type parameter? I think I heard that in other languages. |
| 2023-06-22 14:11:27 +0200 | cfricke | (~cfricke@user/cfricke) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 2023-06-22 14:11:46 +0200 | <dminuoso> | Is there a notion of domain/codomain that generalizses to higher order functions? |
| 2023-06-22 14:11:50 +0200 | segfaultfizzbuzz | (~segfaultf@12.172.217.142) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2023-06-22 14:12:15 +0200 | <dminuoso> | Or maybe I should ask the question whether there is a categorical notion of domain/codomain. |
| 2023-06-22 14:13:36 +0200 | finn | (~finn@176-151-21-224.abo.bbox.fr) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) |
| 2023-06-22 14:13:53 +0200 | <ncf> | RedNifre: again, the type parameter would be an *argument* to the type operator, so it would be an *element* of the domain |
| 2023-06-22 14:14:02 +0200 | <ncf> | in Maybe a, the parameter is a, which is a Type, so the domain is Type |
| 2023-06-22 14:18:31 +0200 | <RedNifre> | nfc ah, so you would say that both sides of ->, as in both the domain and the codomain would be type parameters to the arrow (type operator)? |
| 2023-06-22 14:19:31 +0200 | kritzefitz | (~kritzefit@debian/kritzefitz) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2023-06-22 14:25:35 +0200 | kritzefitz | (~kritzefit@debian/kritzefitz) |
| 2023-06-22 14:27:23 +0200 | <ncf> | sure, if you take it one level higher, (->) is a type operator with kind Type -> Type -> Type |
| 2023-06-22 14:29:58 +0200 | <jade[m]1> | that's also why higher-order functions are so natural :) |
| 2023-06-22 14:30:23 +0200 | <jade[m]1> | because `->` just constructs another type that you can use within for example another application of `->` |
| 2023-06-22 14:33:58 +0200 | shapr | (~user@2600:1700:c640:3100:cca5:97e3:b957:869b) |
| 2023-06-22 14:44:46 +0200 | haritz | (~hrtz@user/haritz) (Quit: ZNC 1.8.2+deb2 - https://znc.in) |
| 2023-06-22 14:45:04 +0200 | haritz | (~hrtz@2a02:8010:65b5:0:6009:6384:e3cb:2220) |
| 2023-06-22 14:45:05 +0200 | haritz | (~hrtz@2a02:8010:65b5:0:6009:6384:e3cb:2220) (Changing host) |
| 2023-06-22 14:45:05 +0200 | haritz | (~hrtz@user/haritz) |
| 2023-06-22 14:51:45 +0200 | bitdex | (~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex) (Quit: = "") |
| 2023-06-22 14:58:02 +0200 | bontaq | (~user@ool-45779b84.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 2023-06-22 15:06:53 +0200 | tromp | (~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) |
| 2023-06-22 15:10:12 +0200 | lortabac | (~lortabac@88.125.6.227) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 2023-06-22 15:10:37 +0200 | segfaultfizzbuzz | (~segfaultf@12.172.217.142) |
| 2023-06-22 15:10:38 +0200 | segfaultfizzbuzz | (~segfaultf@12.172.217.142) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2023-06-22 15:11:49 +0200 | barcisz | (~barcisz@79.191.69.198.ipv4.supernova.orange.pl) |
| 2023-06-22 15:12:04 +0200 | lortabac | (~lortabac@2a01:e0a:541:b8f0:1919:53f7:f079:d44a) |
| 2023-06-22 15:21:41 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | The `containers` docs for Data.Map.Strict.union lists O(m log((n+1)/(m+1))) as its complexity https://hackage.haskell.org/package/containers-0.6.7/docs/Data-Map-Strict.html#v:union , and cites https://arxiv.org/pdf/1602.02120v3.pdf as the source for that complexity -- but the linked paper gives O(m log(n/m + 1)). What gives? |
| 2023-06-22 15:22:26 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | now I get that there's not much of a difference, but someone must have consciously used the different expression in the haddocks for _some_ reason |
| 2023-06-22 15:22:37 +0200 | jtza8 | (~user@165.255.137.90) |
| 2023-06-22 15:23:10 +0200 | <merijn> | tomsmeding: That's a bogus big O |
| 2023-06-22 15:23:23 +0200 | <merijn> | constant factors (i.e. +1) shouldn't be in there |
| 2023-06-22 15:24:07 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | hmm |
| 2023-06-22 15:24:24 +0200 | <ncf> | they're under a log |
| 2023-06-22 15:24:39 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | for large enough n _and_ m, the +1 is a negligible constant |
| 2023-06-22 15:24:48 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | but for large n and small m, not so much |
| 2023-06-22 15:24:58 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | and the whole point is that m <= n |
| 2023-06-22 15:25:16 +0200 | <jade[m]1> | ncf: that should make it even more neglible? |
| 2023-06-22 15:25:19 +0200 | <merijn> | tomsmeding: I mean "O(999999n)" is more properly "O(n)" |
| 2023-06-22 15:25:35 +0200 | <merijn> | tomsmeding: Negligibility of the constant isn't really relevant |
| 2023-06-22 15:25:55 +0200 | <merijn> | tomsmeding: Because it's still linear in n |
| 2023-06-22 15:26:01 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | I get that |
| 2023-06-22 15:26:18 +0200 | <merijn> | Anyway, mail the library author that added that? :p |
| 2023-06-22 15:29:34 +0200 | eggplantade | (~Eggplanta@2600:1700:38c5:d800:38f8:4900:37c0:4176) |
| 2023-06-22 15:32:20 +0200 | danse-nr3_ | (~francesco@151.44.206.87) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2023-06-22 15:33:19 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | here apparently https://github.com/haskell/containers/pull/830#discussion_r849790087 |
| 2023-06-22 15:33:21 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | meh |
| 2023-06-22 15:33:49 +0200 | <nyc> | Hmm, how do I get -ddump-stg on a particular source file from a cabal build. |
| 2023-06-22 15:34:00 +0200 | eggplantade | (~Eggplanta@2600:1700:38c5:d800:38f8:4900:37c0:4176) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2023-06-22 15:34:35 +0200 | tromp | (~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) |
| 2023-06-22 15:36:40 +0200 | <merijn> | nyc: Effectively, you don't really |
| 2023-06-22 15:36:52 +0200 | raehik | (~raehik@cpc95906-rdng25-2-0-cust156.15-3.cable.virginm.net) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 2023-06-22 15:36:55 +0200 | <merijn> | nyc: It's more productive to use the -ddump-dir flag (or something like that) |
| 2023-06-22 15:37:13 +0200 | <merijn> | which causes ghc to put the dump (such as stg) output into a specific directory with 1 file per source file |
| 2023-06-22 15:37:26 +0200 | <merijn> | And then at the end you'll just have the stg dump of all files in that directory |
| 2023-06-22 15:38:17 +0200 | <nyc> | That sounds fine. |
| 2023-06-22 15:38:41 +0200 | <nyc> | I just need to get it to happen with the build system or cabal or something. |
| 2023-06-22 15:38:41 +0200 | <merijn> | I forget the exact flag names, but should be in the GHC reference something like dump to file and dump dir |
| 2023-06-22 15:39:05 +0200 | <merijn> | So you don't have to dig for the results through the cabal output |
| 2023-06-22 15:39:14 +0200 | <nyc> | -dumpdir seems to exist? |
| 2023-06-22 15:39:44 +0200 | <merijn> | there is (iirc) also one to tell it to dump dump output to files instead of stdout |
| 2023-06-22 15:40:01 +0200 | <jade[m]1> | <tomsmeding> "here apparently https://github...." <- wait, why did the review change the O(..) without explanation? |
| 2023-06-22 15:40:11 +0200 | <jade[m]1> | not sure I understand why that was done? |
| 2023-06-22 15:42:15 +0200 | <nyc> | merijn: I guess I'm trying to capture a command line involving ghc being executed compiling the relevant files & then copy & paste it & then add -ddump-stg or some such to it. What should I actually be doing? |
| 2023-06-22 15:43:17 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | nyc: ghc-flags: -ddump-stg -ddump-whatever-that-dir-flag-is=/something |
| 2023-06-22 15:43:25 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | er, ghc-options: |
| 2023-06-22 15:43:34 +0200 | <nyc> | -dumpdir I guess. |
| 2023-06-22 15:43:44 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | https://cabal.readthedocs.io/en/3.4/cabal-package.html?highlight=ghc-options#pkg-field-ghc-options |
| 2023-06-22 15:43:46 +0200 | <nyc> | tomsmeding: Edit that into the cabal file? |
| 2023-06-22 15:43:51 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | yes |
| 2023-06-22 15:44:13 +0200 | <nyc> | tomsmeding: The build system is probably more of my issue than the exact flags to pass to ghc. |
| 2023-06-22 15:44:41 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | jade[m]1: I guess? it fixed the formula not evaluating for m=0, but now it just fails for m=n (surely O(0) is not the intended result), so they didn't fix anything |
| 2023-06-22 15:45:22 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | nyc: you just add 'ghc-options: ...' in the same list of fields as where you have exposed-modules:, other-modules:, default-language:, main-is:, etc. |
| 2023-06-22 15:45:52 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | jade[m]1: for large n _and_ large m, the formulae are equivalent, so if that's the intended meaning of the big-O, then it doesn't matter |
| 2023-06-22 15:46:34 +0200 | raehik | (~raehik@cpc95906-rdng25-2-0-cust156.15-3.cable.virginm.net) |
| 2023-06-22 15:46:52 +0200 | __monty__ | (~toonn@user/toonn) (Quit: leaving) |
| 2023-06-22 15:50:36 +0200 | jade[m]1 | uploaded an image: (124KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/the-apothecary.club/bTbsXqrwnAGzJgxBWJNDDAiV/ima… > |
| 2023-06-22 15:51:32 +0200 | sunarch | (~sunarch@user/sunarch) |
| 2023-06-22 15:52:37 +0200 | <jade[m]1> | the closer n and m are, the less similar these are |
| 2023-06-22 15:53:12 +0200 | <jade[m]1> | so it's not really that accurate at all unless you merge very small maps with very big ones? |
| 2023-06-22 15:53:54 +0200 | jade[m]1 | uploaded an image: (90KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/the-apothecary.club/cmEUBmTekrDRnIKBLdwWihIT/ima… > |
| 2023-06-22 15:54:27 +0200 | <jade[m]1> | the black lines are the respetive time complexities, the red line is their difference (negative, sorry) and the blue one is where n=m |
| 2023-06-22 15:54:38 +0200 | <jade[m]1> | im fixing n here |
| 2023-06-22 15:54:48 +0200 | <jade[m]1> | m, not n |
| 2023-06-22 15:55:41 +0200 | barcisz | (~barcisz@79.191.69.198.ipv4.supernova.orange.pl) (Quit: Connection closed) |
| 2023-06-22 15:55:58 +0200 | jade[m]1 | uploaded an image: (44KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/the-apothecary.club/xbZTEdNZlczYSmSCfZjbLyxs/ima… > |
| 2023-06-22 15:56:32 +0200 | sunarch | (~sunarch@user/sunarch) (Quit: WeeChat 3.8) |
| 2023-06-22 15:56:54 +0200 | sunarch | (~sunarch@user/sunarch) |
| 2023-06-22 15:57:57 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | the problem is that the original paper doesn't define what they mean by their big-O notation |
| 2023-06-22 15:58:16 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | is there a standard formal meaning for big-O of multiple variables? |
| 2023-06-22 15:59:05 +0200 | <jade[m]1> | is there any debate/ambiguity? |
| 2023-06-22 15:59:49 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | jade[m]1: well, is O(n(m+1)) distinct from O(nm)? |
| 2023-06-22 16:00:01 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | if they hold in the limit for n,m -> \infty, then no |
| 2023-06-22 16:00:03 +0200 | <jade[m]1> | oh in that regards you mean |
| 2023-06-22 16:00:18 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | if they hold in the limit for _at least one_ of n,m to infinity, then yes, very much |
| 2023-06-22 16:00:24 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | these union complexities are the same |
| 2023-06-22 16:00:27 +0200 | <jade[m]1> | tomsmeding: I don't think this was ever the definition though? |
| 2023-06-22 16:00:41 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | jade[m]1: what's "this" there? |
| 2023-06-22 16:00:46 +0200 | <jade[m]1> | because both n, n^2 and n*logn all have the same limit when tending to infinity |
| 2023-06-22 16:00:52 +0200 | <jade[m]1> | but we class them differently |
| 2023-06-22 16:01:00 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | lolwat |
| 2023-06-22 16:01:08 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | from the papear https://tomsmeding.com/ss/get/tomsmeding/5k9O05 |
| 2023-06-22 16:01:19 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | *paper |
| 2023-06-22 16:01:28 +0200 | <jade[m]1> | tomsmeding: now im really confused |
| 2023-06-22 16:01:41 +0200 | danse-nr3_ | (~francesco@151.44.206.87) |
| 2023-06-22 16:01:44 +0200 | raehik | (~raehik@cpc95906-rdng25-2-0-cust156.15-3.cable.virginm.net) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2023-06-22 16:02:00 +0200 | <dolio> | I think the constants are just being used to avoid singularities. |
| 2023-06-22 16:02:11 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | jade[m]1: they do, but the point is that big-O says something about _relative_ growth |
| 2023-06-22 16:02:17 +0200 | <jade[m]1> | mhm |
| 2023-06-22 16:02:50 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | f : R -> R is in O(g) for g : R -> R if \lim_{x -> \infty} f(x)/g(x) < \infty |
| 2023-06-22 16:03:26 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | or equivalently, if \exists c > 0. \exists X > 0. \forall x > X. f(x) < c * g(x) |
| 2023-06-22 16:03:52 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | dolio: see equation (3) here https://arxiv.org/pdf/1602.02120v3.pdf (page 13 at the bottom) |
| 2023-06-22 16:03:59 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | that +1 definitely does mean something, apparently |
| 2023-06-22 16:04:06 +0200 | jero98772 | (~jero98772@2800:484:1d7f:5d36::4) |
| 2023-06-22 16:04:16 +0200 | <jade[m]1> | tomsmeding: that just means "factors don't matter"? |
| 2023-06-22 16:04:39 +0200 | euandreh1 | (~Thunderbi@189.6.18.7) |
| 2023-06-22 16:04:41 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | some do, some don't |
| 2023-06-22 16:04:43 +0200 | <dolio> | tomsmeding: That's avoiding the singularity of log(0). |
| 2023-06-22 16:04:52 +0200 | euandreh | (~Thunderbi@189.6.18.7) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2023-06-22 16:04:54 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | O(n^2 + n) == O(n^2 + 2n), but O(2^n) /= O(2^(2n)) |
| 2023-06-22 16:04:57 +0200 | euandreh1 | euandreh |
| 2023-06-22 16:05:04 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | dolio: why does the formula change after adding O(m)? |
| 2023-06-22 16:05:06 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | see the line above |
| 2023-06-22 16:05:15 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | if all the point was avoiding the singularity, why is the line above (3) fine |
| 2023-06-22 16:05:44 +0200 | <jade[m]1> | tomsmeding: yeah, I meant outermost factors |
| 2023-06-22 16:05:46 +0200 | jtza8 | (~user@165.255.137.90) (ERC 5.4 (IRC client for GNU Emacs 28.2)) |
| 2023-06-22 16:06:04 +0200 | <dolio> | I don't know. That's not a rule for adding logs that I've heard of. |
| 2023-06-22 16:06:22 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | dolio: I would accept O(m log(n/m)) + O(m) = O(m (log(n/m) + 1)) |
| 2023-06-22 16:06:24 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | but that's not what's there |
| 2023-06-22 16:07:26 +0200 | <dolio> | I still think it's an asymptotically meaningless addition to fix a singularity (although they apparently forgot about the other one). |
| 2023-06-22 16:07:26 +0200 | tromp | (~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) |
| 2023-06-22 16:07:48 +0200 | <jade[m]1> | I think they combined two steps there maybe? |
| 2023-06-22 16:07:49 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | perhaps |
| 2023-06-22 16:08:00 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | dolio: do you happen to know what definition for big-O notation they'd use? |
| 2023-06-22 16:08:14 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | as in, can I conclude some asymptotic behaviour in n after fixing e.g. m=1? |
| 2023-06-22 16:08:52 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | or it is only asymptotic in n and m that are simultaneously large |
| 2023-06-22 16:08:52 +0200 | <Lears> | It's not meaningless in the multivariate case, since apparently it's typical to use the Chebyshev (supremum) norm. |
| 2023-06-22 16:09:07 +0200 | <Lears> | At least, according to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_O_notation#Multiple_variables |
| 2023-06-22 16:09:18 +0200 | raehik | (~raehik@cpc95906-rdng25-2-0-cust156.15-3.cable.virginm.net) |
| 2023-06-22 16:09:38 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | right, that's n and m simultaneously large |
| 2023-06-22 16:09:48 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | wait no |
| 2023-06-22 16:09:51 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | that's _some_ |
| 2023-06-22 16:11:01 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | but then the original formula from the paper is bollocks for m=0, which is a perfectly sensible input |
| 2023-06-22 16:11:15 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | and @treeowl's changed formula is bollocks for m=n |
| 2023-06-22 16:14:13 +0200 | danse-nr3__ | (~francesco@151.44.181.14) |
| 2023-06-22 16:14:42 +0200 | <dolio> | It is? |
| 2023-06-22 16:15:13 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | substituting m |-> n, we get n log((n+1)/(n+1)) = n log(1) = n * 0 = 0 |
| 2023-06-22 16:15:21 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | surely map union of two equal-size maps is not O(0) |
| 2023-06-22 16:16:27 +0200 | danse-nr3_ | (~francesco@151.44.206.87) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 2023-06-22 16:16:30 +0200 | <dolio> | Oh yeah. I was thinking there was some extra term in there. |
| 2023-06-22 16:16:47 +0200 | <jade[m]1> | tomsmeding: I wish |
| 2023-06-22 16:16:58 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | :p |
| 2023-06-22 16:16:59 +0200 | <dolio> | I assume the point is that it gets closer to linear the closer in size the maps are. |
| 2023-06-22 16:17:45 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | right, but thing is that I'm specifically quite interested in the behaviour for m=1 |
| 2023-06-22 16:18:15 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | hm I guess both work there |
| 2023-06-22 16:19:15 +0200 | <jade[m]1> | I was about to say, for m=1 it's just a tree insertion which should be ~log(n) which I think both have |
| 2023-06-22 16:19:20 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | yep |
| 2023-06-22 16:19:23 +0200 | <jade[m]1> | s/have/give you |
| 2023-06-22 16:20:06 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | 1 log(n/1 + 1) = log(n+1) ~= log(n) ; 1 log((n+1)/2) = log(0.5n + 0.5) ~= log(0.5) + log(n) ~= log(n) |
| 2023-06-22 16:20:07 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | ish |
| 2023-06-22 16:20:08 +0200 | mncheck | (~mncheck@193.224.205.254) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2023-06-22 16:20:11 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | add some O() |
| 2023-06-22 16:21:37 +0200 | swamp_ | (~zmt00@user/zmt00) |
| 2023-06-22 16:23:56 +0200 | euandreh | (~Thunderbi@189.6.18.7) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2023-06-22 16:24:19 +0200 | euandreh | (~Thunderbi@189.6.18.7) |
| 2023-06-22 16:25:21 +0200 | zmt01 | (~zmt00@user/zmt00) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2023-06-22 16:32:42 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@c-001-001-003.client.esciencecenter.eduvpn.nl) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 2023-06-22 16:33:14 +0200 | mncheck | (~mncheck@193.224.205.254) |
| 2023-06-22 16:37:35 +0200 | ripspin | (~chatzilla@1.145.243.72) |
| 2023-06-22 16:38:39 +0200 | tromp | (~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2023-06-22 16:38:54 +0200 | mechap | (~mechap@user/mechap) (Quit: WeeChat 3.8) |
| 2023-06-22 16:42:20 +0200 | Unicorn_Princess | (~Unicorn_P@user/Unicorn-Princess/x-3540542) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2023-06-22 16:42:45 +0200 | Unicorn_Princess | (~Unicorn_P@user/Unicorn-Princess/x-3540542) |
| 2023-06-22 16:45:34 +0200 | shriekingnoise | (~shrieking@186.137.175.87) |
| 2023-06-22 16:46:34 +0200 | gemmaro | (~user@240f:74:d1f0:1:ba1:e787:c9e:b1dc) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2023-06-22 16:50:08 +0200 | laxmik | (~user@cfeld-pcx40162.desy.de) (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 26.3)) |
| 2023-06-22 16:50:44 +0200 | dmwit | (~dmwit@2600:4040:2642:4800:a933:9086:c580:931b) |
| 2023-06-22 16:51:01 +0200 | dmwit | (~dmwit@2600:4040:2642:4800:a933:9086:c580:931b) (Client Quit) |
| 2023-06-22 16:52:20 +0200 | candlestick | (~tls@179.152.251.228) |
| 2023-06-22 16:52:23 +0200 | candlestick | (~tls@179.152.251.228) () |
| 2023-06-22 16:53:06 +0200 | mechap | (~mechap@user/mechap) |
| 2023-06-22 16:55:52 +0200 | azimut | (~azimut@gateway/tor-sasl/azimut) |
| 2023-06-22 16:58:14 +0200 | lortabac | (~lortabac@2a01:e0a:541:b8f0:1919:53f7:f079:d44a) (Quit: WeeChat 2.8) |
| 2023-06-22 17:00:37 +0200 | chele | (~chele@user/chele) (Remote host closed the connection) |
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| 2023-06-22 17:02:01 +0200 | gmg | (~user@user/gehmehgeh) |
| 2023-06-22 17:04:07 +0200 | hippoid | (~hippoid@user/hippoid) |
| 2023-06-22 17:04:22 +0200 | Unicorn_Princess | (~Unicorn_P@user/Unicorn-Princess/x-3540542) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 2023-06-22 17:04:47 +0200 | Unicorn_Princess | (~Unicorn_P@user/Unicorn-Princess/x-3540542) |
| 2023-06-22 17:17:20 +0200 | raehik | (~raehik@cpc95906-rdng25-2-0-cust156.15-3.cable.virginm.net) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2023-06-22 17:19:11 +0200 | nate2 | (~nate@c-98-45-169-16.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 2023-06-22 17:23:22 +0200 | mauke | (~mauke@user/mauke) |
| 2023-06-22 17:23:50 +0200 | nate2 | (~nate@c-98-45-169-16.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) |
| 2023-06-22 17:30:51 +0200 | eggplantade | (~Eggplanta@2600:1700:38c5:d800:38f8:4900:37c0:4176) |
| 2023-06-22 17:33:20 +0200 | cafkafk | (~cafkafk@fsf/member/cafkafk) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2023-06-22 17:35:12 +0200 | eggplantade | (~Eggplanta@2600:1700:38c5:d800:38f8:4900:37c0:4176) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 2023-06-22 17:35:53 +0200 | econo_ | (uid147250@id-147250.tinside.irccloud.com) |
| 2023-06-22 17:38:58 +0200 | cafkafk | (~cafkafk@fsf/member/cafkafk) |
| 2023-06-22 17:40:21 +0200 | raehik | (~raehik@cpc95906-rdng25-2-0-cust156.15-3.cable.virginm.net) |
| 2023-06-22 17:46:38 +0200 | Sgeo | (~Sgeo@user/sgeo) |
| 2023-06-22 17:48:20 +0200 | gnalzo | (~gnalzo@2a01:e0a:498:fd50:fcc6:bb5d:489a:ce8c) (Quit: WeeChat 3.8) |
| 2023-06-22 17:48:43 +0200 | tzh | (~tzh@c-24-21-73-154.hsd1.or.comcast.net) |
| 2023-06-22 17:51:14 +0200 | Tuplanolla | (~Tuplanoll@91-159-68-236.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 2023-06-22 17:54:57 +0200 | eggplantade | (~Eggplanta@2600:1700:38c5:d800:38f8:4900:37c0:4176) |
| 2023-06-22 17:56:08 +0200 | mei | (~mei@user/mei) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2023-06-22 17:58:32 +0200 | mei | (~mei@user/mei) |
| 2023-06-22 17:59:41 +0200 | raehik | (~raehik@cpc95906-rdng25-2-0-cust156.15-3.cable.virginm.net) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2023-06-22 18:01:02 +0200 | CiaoSen | (~Jura@2a05:5800:298:5100:664b:f0ff:fe37:9ef) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 2023-06-22 18:03:55 +0200 | berberman | (~berberman@user/berberman) (Quit: ZNC 1.8.2 - https://znc.in) |
| 2023-06-22 18:04:16 +0200 | berberman | (~berberman@user/berberman) |
| 2023-06-22 18:06:07 +0200 | EvanR_ | EvanR |
| 2023-06-22 18:08:26 +0200 | mechap | (~mechap@user/mechap) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2023-06-22 18:09:25 +0200 | mechap | (~mechap@user/mechap) |
| 2023-06-22 18:11:54 +0200 | _ht | (~Thunderbi@28-52-174-82.ftth.glasoperator.nl) |
| 2023-06-22 18:13:39 +0200 | geekosaur | (~geekosaur@xmonad/geekosaur) (Killed (NickServ (GHOST command used by allbery_b))) |
| 2023-06-22 18:13:40 +0200 | mrmonday | (~robert@what.i.hope.is.not.a.tabernaevagant.es) (Quit: .) |
| 2023-06-22 18:13:41 +0200 | allbery_b | (~geekosaur@xmonad/geekosaur) |
| 2023-06-22 18:13:44 +0200 | allbery_b | geekosaur |
| 2023-06-22 18:15:37 +0200 | mechap | (~mechap@user/mechap) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 2023-06-22 18:15:39 +0200 | mrmonday | (~robert@2a01:7e00:e000:1b2:95ca:100:49e0:3f15) |
| 2023-06-22 18:16:52 +0200 | kuribas | (~user@ip-188-118-57-242.reverse.destiny.be) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 2023-06-22 18:17:07 +0200 | mechap | (~mechap@user/mechap) |
| 2023-06-22 18:20:30 +0200 | arrowhead | (~arrowhead@cpe-74-66-76-151.nyc.res.rr.com) () |
| 2023-06-22 18:20:46 +0200 | eggplantade | (~Eggplanta@2600:1700:38c5:d800:38f8:4900:37c0:4176) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2023-06-22 18:27:02 +0200 | raehik | (~raehik@cpc95906-rdng25-2-0-cust156.15-3.cable.virginm.net) |
| 2023-06-22 18:30:33 +0200 | azimut | (~azimut@gateway/tor-sasl/azimut) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2023-06-22 18:32:19 +0200 | azimut | (~azimut@gateway/tor-sasl/azimut) |
| 2023-06-22 18:32:22 +0200 | jmdaemon | (~jmdaemon@user/jmdaemon) |
| 2023-06-22 18:33:30 +0200 | dsrt^ | (~dsrt@c-71-204-38-59.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) |
| 2023-06-22 18:35:12 +0200 | mrmonday | (~robert@2a01:7e00:e000:1b2:95ca:100:49e0:3f15) (Quit: .) |
| 2023-06-22 18:36:06 +0200 | byorgey | (~byorgey@155.138.238.211) (Quit: leaving) |
| 2023-06-22 18:36:36 +0200 | mrmonday | (~robert@what.i.hope.is.not.a.tabernaevagant.es) |
| 2023-06-22 18:40:50 +0200 | <nyc> | Now getting cabal --enable-nix to actually use cached nix things is being headachey. |
| 2023-06-22 18:41:27 +0200 | vpan | (~0@mail.elitnet.lt) (Quit: Leaving.) |
| 2023-06-22 18:42:05 +0200 | <maerwald> | there's always new ways to self-inflict pain |
| 2023-06-22 18:47:08 +0200 | <EvanR> | the difference between foldl and foldr on generic structures is sometimes explained in terms of which side to reduce first, since it matters if the reduction isn't a monoid. Then the paper on 2-3 finger trees explains it in terms of a choice of nesting. Order of reducing, order of nesting |
| 2023-06-22 18:47:28 +0200 | <EvanR> | evaluation order, grouping during parsing |
| 2023-06-22 18:47:36 +0200 | <EvanR> | brain explode |
| 2023-06-22 18:48:11 +0200 | <EvanR> | order of reducing, choice of nesting which isn't order related |
| 2023-06-22 18:49:53 +0200 | <EvanR> | operational reasoning vs syntactic reasoning |
| 2023-06-22 18:50:26 +0200 | mrmonday | (~robert@what.i.hope.is.not.a.tabernaevagant.es) (Quit: .) |
| 2023-06-22 18:52:39 +0200 | mrmonday | (~robert@2a01:7e00:e000:1b2:95ca:100:49e0:3f15) |
| 2023-06-22 18:54:01 +0200 | <maerwald> | exciting |
| 2023-06-22 18:54:29 +0200 | <maerwald> | dminuoso: where you been |
| 2023-06-22 18:57:58 +0200 | eggplantade | (~Eggplanta@104-55-37-220.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) |
| 2023-06-22 19:06:57 +0200 | coot | (~coot@89-69-206-216.dynamic.chello.pl) (Quit: coot) |
| 2023-06-22 19:07:46 +0200 | ubert | (~Thunderbi@2a02:8109:abc0:6434:29a7:1482:a6e1:7d62) (Quit: ubert) |
| 2023-06-22 19:14:15 +0200 | machinedgod | (~machinedg@d198-53-218-113.abhsia.telus.net) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2023-06-22 19:16:39 +0200 | <monochrom> | Out of the blue random ramble: Anti-maskers be like "ghc --show-myface" |
| 2023-06-22 19:18:06 +0200 | <mauke> | ghc --kowai-face |
| 2023-06-22 19:18:22 +0200 | <monochrom> | Haha https://jaspervdj.be/posts/2023-06-19-haskell-puzzles.html is nice, I should do that on exams! |
| 2023-06-22 19:18:39 +0200 | <monochrom> | Maybe also ghc --kowa-iface as a synonym :) |
| 2023-06-22 19:22:42 +0200 | danse-nr3__ | (~francesco@151.44.181.14) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 2023-06-22 19:22:58 +0200 | ripspin | (~chatzilla@1.145.243.72) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2023-06-22 19:24:03 +0200 | kritzefitz | (~kritzefit@debian/kritzefitz) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2023-06-22 19:28:51 +0200 | kritzefitz | (~kritzefit@debian/kritzefitz) |
| 2023-06-22 19:30:11 +0200 | zero | zzz |
| 2023-06-22 19:31:15 +0200 | Natch | (~natch@c-9e07225c.038-60-73746f7.bbcust.telenor.se) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2023-06-22 19:34:56 +0200 | ec | (~ec@gateway/tor-sasl/ec) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2023-06-22 19:35:31 +0200 | ec | (~ec@gateway/tor-sasl/ec) |
| 2023-06-22 19:38:49 +0200 | AlexZenon | (~alzenon@178.34.163.88) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) |
| 2023-06-22 19:39:35 +0200 | Alex_test | (~al_test@178.34.163.88) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) |
| 2023-06-22 19:41:40 +0200 | finn | (~finn@176-151-21-224.abo.bbox.fr) |
| 2023-06-22 19:42:21 +0200 | <EvanR> | on loading that page with the puzzle, it shows several tokens and a command already typed. It's not until I drag something that it responds to make it obvious that it's nonsense and wrong |
| 2023-06-22 19:42:45 +0200 | <EvanR> | maybe it should begin without having anything typed on the prompt yet |
| 2023-06-22 19:44:06 +0200 | <EvanR> | after that, it's really cool |
| 2023-06-22 19:44:06 +0200 | <Lears> | The last puzzle is funny. I don't get the second last, though---you can do it with a strict subset, so what are the extra variables and plusses for? Can you even use them? |
| 2023-06-22 19:44:47 +0200 | <mauke> | you must use them all, I think |
| 2023-06-22 19:44:51 +0200 | <mauke> | at least that's what I did |
| 2023-06-22 19:46:25 +0200 | <mauke> | fortunately, as a long-time reader of #haskell it didn't take me long to figure out |
| 2023-06-22 19:47:13 +0200 | Pickchea | (~private@user/pickchea) |
| 2023-06-22 19:48:43 +0200 | Alex_test | (~al_test@178.34.163.88) |
| 2023-06-22 19:49:00 +0200 | chromoblob | (~user@37.113.180.121) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) |
| 2023-06-22 19:49:43 +0200 | cfricke | (~cfricke@user/cfricke) |
| 2023-06-22 19:51:10 +0200 | raehik | (~raehik@cpc95906-rdng25-2-0-cust156.15-3.cable.virginm.net) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) |
| 2023-06-22 19:51:13 +0200 | AlexZenon | (~alzenon@178.34.163.88) |
| 2023-06-22 19:51:18 +0200 | <int-e> | Lears: I agree, using all the symbols is the hardest part of that puzzle. |
| 2023-06-22 19:54:27 +0200 | L29Ah | (~L29Ah@wikipedia/L29Ah) () |
| 2023-06-22 19:56:03 +0200 | gnalzo | (~gnalzo@2a01:e0a:498:fd50:fcc6:bb5d:489a:ce8c) |
| 2023-06-22 19:57:04 +0200 | <EvanR> | I got the 2nd puzzle but have no idea how it works |
| 2023-06-22 19:58:27 +0200 | benjaminbellick | (~user@ool-4575ce40.dyn.optonline.net) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2023-06-22 19:58:56 +0200 | phma_ | (~phma@host-67-44-208-160.hnremote.net) |
| 2023-06-22 19:59:13 +0200 | Natch | (~natch@c-9e07225c.038-60-73746f7.bbcust.telenor.se) |
| 2023-06-22 20:01:02 +0200 | <ncf> | join (+) = (2 *) |
| 2023-06-22 20:02:06 +0200 | <mauke> | > join f x :: Expr |
| 2023-06-22 20:02:07 +0200 | <lambdabot> | f x x |
| 2023-06-22 20:02:35 +0200 | phma | (phma@2001:5b0:211f:2f08:cc02:19f0:c9b8:d000) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) |
| 2023-06-22 20:03:49 +0200 | <EvanR> | > join (+) 4 |
| 2023-06-22 20:03:50 +0200 | <lambdabot> | 8 |
| 2023-06-22 20:04:04 +0200 | <EvanR> | > 2 ^ 3 |
| 2023-06-22 20:04:05 +0200 | <lambdabot> | 8 |
| 2023-06-22 20:04:08 +0200 | <EvanR> | convinced |
| 2023-06-22 20:04:34 +0200 | phma_ | phma |
| 2023-06-22 20:05:15 +0200 | <mauke> | this is called the reader monad |
| 2023-06-22 20:06:28 +0200 | <jade[m]1> | <monochrom> "Haha https://jaspervdj.be/posts/..." <- this was amazing haha |
| 2023-06-22 20:07:09 +0200 | <jade[m]1> | mauke: 🤔 |
| 2023-06-22 20:07:18 +0200 | <monochrom> | It's from today's Haskell Weekly News |
| 2023-06-22 20:10:32 +0200 | <mauke> | > runReader (join (reader (reader . (+)))) 2 |
| 2023-06-22 20:10:34 +0200 | <lambdabot> | 4 |
| 2023-06-22 20:11:22 +0200 | eggplantade | (~Eggplanta@104-55-37-220.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2023-06-22 20:13:59 +0200 | dvu | (~dvu@206.253.143.145) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2023-06-22 20:15:03 +0200 | <Lears> | Okay, I went back to the puzzle; I got it now. It's not actually complicated when you reason through it, just annoying. <.< |
| 2023-06-22 20:15:33 +0200 | <ncf> | next level is to come up with actually hard versions of those |
| 2023-06-22 20:15:50 +0200 | <ncf> | involving mtl, lens, kan-extensions... |
| 2023-06-22 20:16:06 +0200 | <ncf> | hint: use coerce to avoid revealing which obscure newtypes to use |
| 2023-06-22 20:16:23 +0200 | <monochrom> | Haha that's horrible |
| 2023-06-22 20:16:30 +0200 | <monochrom> | but haha |
| 2023-06-22 20:17:35 +0200 | Unicorn_Princess | (~Unicorn_P@user/Unicorn-Princess/x-3540542) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2023-06-22 20:18:22 +0200 | Unicorn_Princess | (~Unicorn_P@user/Unicorn-Princess/x-3540542) |
| 2023-06-22 20:19:05 +0200 | <EvanR> | haskell puzzle, program a GUI |
| 2023-06-22 20:24:09 +0200 | ft | (~ft@p4fc2afc9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 2023-06-22 20:25:11 +0200 | <sm> | install a GUI framework |
| 2023-06-22 20:25:37 +0200 | EvanR | installs cocoa |
| 2023-06-22 20:25:41 +0200 | <nyc> | -ddump-to-file -dumpdir |
| 2023-06-22 20:25:46 +0200 | <EvanR> | aaaah undo undo |
| 2023-06-22 20:29:02 +0200 | <sm> | solve 5 cabal/haskell user issues |
| 2023-06-22 20:29:14 +0200 | <monochrom> | :( |
| 2023-06-22 20:30:05 +0200 | <monochrom> | OK I'm happy if it means "issues caused by cabal bugs not user's fault". |
| 2023-06-22 20:30:24 +0200 | <monochrom> | But if it means "solve PEBKAC" thanks but no thanks. |
| 2023-06-22 20:30:30 +0200 | <sm> | convert through three different number types / convert through three different time types |
| 2023-06-22 20:30:31 +0200 | <geekosaur> | enh. cabal still has some "wtf does that mean?" issues |
| 2023-06-22 20:31:06 +0200 | <monochrom> | Or, you know, maybe I'm happy with "solve PEBKAC" if you accept this as a solution: get rid of humans. |
| 2023-06-22 20:31:31 +0200 | sm | meant to write "solve 5 cabal/stack user issues" there |
| 2023-06-22 20:32:12 +0200 | <monochrom> | OK yeah "wtf does that mean" issues need to be solved, not user's fault. |
| 2023-06-22 20:32:34 +0200 | <EvanR> | I heard cabal is easy if you read the entire manual start to finish before doing anything at all |
| 2023-06-22 20:32:50 +0200 | <EvanR> | which everyone does so not an issue |
| 2023-06-22 20:33:08 +0200 | <monochrom> | No, I already read the manual, it's still not easy. |
| 2023-06-22 20:33:19 +0200 | <sm> | - generate a heap profile |
| 2023-06-22 20:33:19 +0200 | <sm> | - detect and solve a performance bug |
| 2023-06-22 20:33:19 +0200 | <sm> | boy haskell is a goldmine of puzzles |
| 2023-06-22 20:33:33 +0200 | <sm> | EvanR: it sure helps, but yes not sufficient |
| 2023-06-22 20:33:55 +0200 | <EvanR> | we should collect these into a tech tree or quest progress tree or something |
| 2023-06-22 20:34:20 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | those puzzles are cute |
| 2023-06-22 20:34:27 +0200 | <sm> | indeed! Have thought of the Haskell Adventure before |
| 2023-06-22 20:34:37 +0200 | <mauke> | find the space leak. no, the other space leak |
| 2023-06-22 20:34:45 +0200 | <sm> | not just the usual dry coding stuff, the real stuff haskellers are faced with |
| 2023-06-22 20:35:49 +0200 | <EvanR> | - deduce the proper semantics of FilePath on windows |
| 2023-06-22 20:36:40 +0200 | jmdaemon | (~jmdaemon@user/jmdaemon) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) |
| 2023-06-22 20:36:40 +0200 | <mauke> | >implying there is a (one) proper semantics of windows file paths |
| 2023-06-22 20:37:15 +0200 | <EvanR> | - give at least 1 |
| 2023-06-22 20:37:30 +0200 | <monochrom> | perhaps "semantics" is plural there :) |
| 2023-06-22 20:37:49 +0200 | <monochrom> | Yeah, what's the plural for "semantics"? Sometimes I need it. |
| 2023-06-22 20:37:56 +0200 | <EvanR> | semantices |
| 2023-06-22 20:38:06 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | semantic's |
| 2023-06-22 20:38:18 +0200 | <monochrom> | I hope it's something cute like "semanteaux". |
| 2023-06-22 20:38:22 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | semantix |
| 2023-06-22 20:38:35 +0200 | <EvanR> | semantii |
| 2023-06-22 20:39:04 +0200 | <mauke> | Semantiken |
| 2023-06-22 20:39:07 +0200 | <sm> | - install a random hackage package uploaded 1 / 2 / 5 / 10 / >10 years ago |
| 2023-06-22 20:39:24 +0200 | <EvanR> | oh a difficulty progression, good call |
| 2023-06-22 20:39:30 +0200 | <sm> | we could have a Haskell Olympics |
| 2023-06-22 20:39:55 +0200 | gry | (quasselcor@botters/gry) (*.net *.split) |
| 2023-06-22 20:39:56 +0200 | byte | (~byte@user/byte) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2023-06-22 20:40:03 +0200 | <EvanR> | record oldest package successfully used |
| 2023-06-22 20:40:11 +0200 | gry | (quasselcor@botters/gry) |
| 2023-06-22 20:40:12 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | where did that final 's' even come from, historically; it's supposed to come from French sémantique |
| 2023-06-22 20:41:46 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | monochrom: use https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/semasiology |
| 2023-06-22 20:41:53 +0200 | <mauke> | it's like physics, maths, chemics, syntacs, and biologys |
| 2023-06-22 20:42:22 +0200 | <EvanR> | the sciences |
| 2023-06-22 20:42:31 +0200 | jmdaemon | (~jmdaemon@user/jmdaemon) |
| 2023-06-22 20:42:41 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | one semantics, two semasiologies |
| 2023-06-22 20:42:58 +0200 | <monochrom> | Oh haha |
| 2023-06-22 20:43:04 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | sm: compile acme-everything |
| 2023-06-22 20:44:04 +0200 | <monochrom> | That has the vibe of "radiology alert!" in Battelstar Galactica referring to detecting that the enemy has laucnhed nukes. |
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