IRCBrowse

2023/06/10

2023-06-10 00:02:43 +0200merijn(~merijn@86-86-29-250.fixed.kpn.net)
2023-06-10 00:05:31 +0200dtman34_(~dtman34@2601:447:d000:93c9:34ad:ec7c:770c:58f3) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2023-06-10 00:10:12 +0200__monty__(~toonn@user/toonn) (Quit: leaving)
2023-06-10 00:12:32 +0200_ht(~Thunderbi@28-52-174-82.ftth.glasoperator.nl) (Remote host closed the connection)
2023-06-10 00:12:42 +0200use-value(~Thunderbi@2a00:23c6:8a03:2f01:75c2:a71f:beaa:29bf) (Remote host closed the connection)
2023-06-10 00:12:51 +0200gnalzo(~gnalzo@2a01:e0a:498:fd50:fcc6:bb5d:489a:ce8c) (Quit: WeeChat 3.8)
2023-06-10 00:13:01 +0200use-value(~Thunderbi@2a00:23c6:8a03:2f01:75c2:a71f:beaa:29bf)
2023-06-10 00:14:46 +0200takuan(~takuan@178-116-218-225.access.telenet.be) (Remote host closed the connection)
2023-06-10 00:15:05 +0200gurkenglas(~user@dynamic-046-114-176-077.46.114.pool.telefonica.de) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2023-06-10 00:27:23 +0200titibandit(~titibandi@user/titibandit)
2023-06-10 00:29:32 +0200Pickchea(~private@user/pickchea) (Quit: Leaving)
2023-06-10 00:34:09 +0200oac(~oac@72-50-214-210.fttp.usinternet.com) (Quit: oac)
2023-06-10 00:34:26 +0200oac(~oac@72-50-214-210.fttp.usinternet.com)
2023-06-10 00:35:26 +0200thegeekinside(~thegeekin@189.217.90.138) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2023-06-10 00:37:08 +0200merijn(~merijn@86-86-29-250.fixed.kpn.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2023-06-10 00:38:03 +0200johnw(~johnw@76-234-69-149.lightspeed.frokca.sbcglobal.net) (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in)
2023-06-10 00:38:32 +0200johnw(~johnw@76-234-69-149.lightspeed.frokca.sbcglobal.net)
2023-06-10 00:39:29 +0200oac(~oac@72-50-214-210.fttp.usinternet.com) (Quit: oac)
2023-06-10 00:39:55 +0200oac_(~oac@72-50-214-210.fttp.usinternet.com)
2023-06-10 00:43:43 +0200elain4(~textual@static-71-251-226-194.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2023-06-10 00:58:05 +0200Tuplanolla(~Tuplanoll@91-159-68-236.elisa-laajakaista.fi) (Quit: Leaving.)
2023-06-10 01:07:17 +0200mauke_(~mauke@user/mauke)
2023-06-10 01:09:14 +0200thegeekinside(~thegeekin@189.217.90.138)
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2023-06-10 01:09:19 +0200mauke_mauke
2023-06-10 01:12:51 +0200foul_owl(~kerry@71.212.137.212) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2023-06-10 01:14:01 +0200acidjnk(~acidjnk@p200300d6e7072f890867bba278f7090b.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2023-06-10 01:15:40 +0200foul_owl(~kerry@71.212.137.212)
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2023-06-10 01:19:27 +0200solaire(~solaire@024-158-119-196.res.spectrum.com) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2023-06-10 01:19:41 +0200solaire(~solaire@024-158-119-196.res.spectrum.com)
2023-06-10 01:20:40 +0200oac_(~oac@72-50-214-210.fttp.usinternet.com) (Quit: oac_)
2023-06-10 01:22:18 +0200nate2(~nate@c-98-45-169-16.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
2023-06-10 01:27:07 +0200nate2(~nate@c-98-45-169-16.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2023-06-10 01:32:12 +0200dcoutts(~duncan@54.42.150.83.ftth.as8758.net)
2023-06-10 01:40:08 +0200azimut_(~azimut@gateway/tor-sasl/azimut) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2023-06-10 01:41:52 +0200jero98772(~jero98772@2800:484:1d7f:5d36::1) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2023-06-10 01:46:10 +0200thegeekinside(~thegeekin@189.217.90.138) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2023-06-10 01:52:08 +0200jpds(~jpds@gateway/tor-sasl/jpds) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2023-06-10 01:52:33 +0200jpds(~jpds@gateway/tor-sasl/jpds)
2023-06-10 01:54:26 +0200eggplantade(~Eggplanta@2600:1700:38c5:d800:d10a:3acf:6ef1:80ab) (Remote host closed the connection)
2023-06-10 01:55:08 +0200jero98772(~jero98772@2800:484:1d7f:5d36::1)
2023-06-10 01:55:26 +0200mi7(~mi7@76.132.133.207)
2023-06-10 01:58:48 +0200chromoblob(~user@37.113.180.121) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2023-06-10 02:02:16 +0200merijn(~merijn@c-001-001-004.client.esciencecenter.eduvpn.nl)
2023-06-10 02:07:37 +0200oo_miguel(~Thunderbi@77.252.47.84) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2023-06-10 02:08:05 +0200merijn(~merijn@c-001-001-004.client.esciencecenter.eduvpn.nl) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2023-06-10 02:13:46 +0200eggplantade(~Eggplanta@2600:1700:38c5:d800:d10a:3acf:6ef1:80ab)
2023-06-10 02:14:16 +0200foul_owl(~kerry@71.212.137.212) (Quit: WeeChat 2.3)
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2023-06-10 02:21:48 +0200YuutaW(~YuutaW@2404:f4c0:f9c3:502::100:17b7)
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2023-06-10 02:35:43 +0200thegeekinside(~thegeekin@189.217.90.138)
2023-06-10 02:39:12 +0200notzmv(~zmv@user/notzmv)
2023-06-10 02:39:16 +0200chromoblob(~user@37.113.180.121)
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2023-06-10 02:44:58 +0200foul_owl(~kerry@71.212.137.212) (Quit: WeeChat 2.3)
2023-06-10 02:49:33 +0200werneta(~werneta@70-142-214-115.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net)
2023-06-10 02:51:31 +0200jero98772(~jero98772@2800:484:1d7f:5d36::1) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2023-06-10 02:58:48 +0200jpds(~jpds@gateway/tor-sasl/jpds) (Remote host closed the connection)
2023-06-10 02:59:13 +0200mi7(~mi7@76.132.133.207) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2023-06-10 03:02:51 +0200jpds(~jpds@gateway/tor-sasl/jpds)
2023-06-10 03:03:30 +0200jero98772(~jero98772@2800:484:1d7f:5d36::1)
2023-06-10 03:07:38 +0200waleee(~waleee@2001:9b0:21c:4000:5bf9:6515:c030:57b7) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2023-06-10 03:10:48 +0200albet70(~xxx@2400:8902::f03c:92ff:fe60:98d8) (Remote host closed the connection)
2023-06-10 03:10:57 +0200foul_owl(~kerry@71.212.137.212)
2023-06-10 03:15:31 +0200[itchyjunk](~itchyjunk@user/itchyjunk/x-7353470) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2023-06-10 03:16:57 +0200albet70(~xxx@2400:8902::f03c:92ff:fe60:98d8)
2023-06-10 03:24:15 +0200[itchyjunk](~itchyjunk@user/itchyjunk/x-7353470)
2023-06-10 03:27:50 +0200haritz(~hrtz@user/haritz) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2023-06-10 03:27:59 +0200haritzondo(~hrtz@2a02:8010:65b5:0:6009:6384:e3cb:2220)
2023-06-10 03:30:57 +0200merijn(~merijn@145.90.225.5)
2023-06-10 03:46:07 +0200vandita(~vandit@80-95-85-0.pool.digikabel.hu) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2023-06-10 03:48:01 +0200vandita(~vandit@84-236-1-108.pool.digikabel.hu)
2023-06-10 04:02:23 +0200falafel(~falafel@136.228.104.88)
2023-06-10 04:03:47 +0200 <Inst_> hmmm
2023-06-10 04:03:52 +0200 <Inst_> re bentley quicksort, this is pretty good
2023-06-10 04:04:19 +0200merijn(~merijn@145.90.225.5) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2023-06-10 04:07:56 +0200dtman34(~dtman34@2601:447:d000:93c9:5fba:8e72:71c9:3ed8)
2023-06-10 04:10:40 +0200 <Inst_> https://paste.tomsmeding.com/bv3KHVfa
2023-06-10 04:10:48 +0200 <Inst_> just gotta clean the undefined, but it looks pretty terse
2023-06-10 04:13:28 +0200 <Inst_> ehhh, not using forAccumM correctly, but w/e, should be able to be competitive with a py or julia implementation in terseness
2023-06-10 04:15:26 +0200nate2(~nate@c-98-45-169-16.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
2023-06-10 04:16:53 +0200hpc(~juzz@ip98-169-35-163.dc.dc.cox.net) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2023-06-10 04:17:06 +0200hpc(~juzz@ip98-169-35-163.dc.dc.cox.net)
2023-06-10 04:19:03 +0200haritzondo(~hrtz@2a02:8010:65b5:0:6009:6384:e3cb:2220) (Quit: ZNC 1.8.2+deb2 - https://znc.in)
2023-06-10 04:19:20 +0200finn_elija(~finn_elij@user/finn-elija/x-0085643)
2023-06-10 04:19:20 +0200FinnElija(~finn_elij@user/finn-elija/x-0085643) (Killed (NickServ (Forcing logout FinnElija -> finn_elija)))
2023-06-10 04:19:20 +0200finn_elijaFinnElija
2023-06-10 04:24:53 +0200thegeekinside(~thegeekin@189.217.90.138) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2023-06-10 04:26:05 +0200dhruvasagar(~dhruvasag@49.207.218.223) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2023-06-10 04:27:34 +0200haritz(~hrtz@2a02:8010:65b5:0:6009:6384:e3cb:2220)
2023-06-10 04:27:34 +0200haritz(~hrtz@2a02:8010:65b5:0:6009:6384:e3cb:2220) (Changing host)
2023-06-10 04:27:34 +0200haritz(~hrtz@user/haritz)
2023-06-10 04:32:15 +0200Lycurgus(~juan@user/Lycurgus)
2023-06-10 04:32:43 +0200wroathe(~wroathe@207-153-38-140.fttp.usinternet.com)
2023-06-10 04:32:43 +0200wroathe(~wroathe@207-153-38-140.fttp.usinternet.com) (Changing host)
2023-06-10 04:32:43 +0200wroathe(~wroathe@user/wroathe)
2023-06-10 04:32:59 +0200bitdex(~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex)
2023-06-10 04:33:28 +0200dhruvasagar(~dhruvasag@49.207.218.223)
2023-06-10 04:34:39 +0200falafel(~falafel@136.228.104.88) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2023-06-10 04:37:15 +0200eggplantade(~Eggplanta@2600:1700:38c5:d800:d10a:3acf:6ef1:80ab) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2023-06-10 04:42:28 +0200dhruvasagar(~dhruvasag@49.207.218.223) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2023-06-10 04:43:12 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@146.70.171.139)
2023-06-10 04:47:43 +0200td_(~td@i53870936.versanet.de) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2023-06-10 04:49:19 +0200td_(~td@i5387090B.versanet.de)
2023-06-10 04:49:22 +0200dhruvasagar(~dhruvasag@49.207.218.223)
2023-06-10 04:52:46 +0200thegeekinside(~thegeekin@189.217.90.138)
2023-06-10 04:55:33 +0200thegeekinside(~thegeekin@189.217.90.138) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2023-06-10 04:56:05 +0200dhruvasagar(~dhruvasag@49.207.218.223) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2023-06-10 04:56:58 +0200barrucadu(~barrucadu@carcosa.barrucadu.co.uk) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2023-06-10 04:57:14 +0200barrucadu(~barrucadu@carcosa.barrucadu.co.uk)
2023-06-10 05:13:27 +0200Batzy(~quassel@user/batzy) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2023-06-10 05:16:20 +0200 <Inst_> https://paste.tomsmeding.com/faan1VhU
2023-06-10 05:16:34 +0200jero98772(~jero98772@2800:484:1d7f:5d36::1) (Remote host closed the connection)
2023-06-10 05:16:34 +0200Batzy(~quassel@user/batzy)
2023-06-10 05:16:58 +0200 <Inst_> if gurkenglas is still interested, I ended up using forAccumM as suggested, although, obv, it makes clear we sort of want forAccumM_
2023-06-10 05:17:49 +0200 <Inst_> i'm wondering if I can get rid of the >>= in the lambda, i.e, switch ti to applicative only
2023-06-10 05:18:17 +0200Lycurgus(~juan@user/Lycurgus) (Quit: Exeunt: personae.ai-integration.biz)
2023-06-10 05:18:37 +0200nate2(~nate@c-98-45-169-16.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2023-06-10 05:27:58 +0200dtman34(~dtman34@2601:447:d000:93c9:5fba:8e72:71c9:3ed8) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2023-06-10 05:31:38 +0200dtman34(~dtman34@76.156.89.180)
2023-06-10 05:32:13 +0200merijn(~merijn@c-001-001-004.client.esciencecenter.eduvpn.nl)
2023-06-10 05:33:40 +0200dhruvasagar(~dhruvasag@49.207.218.223)
2023-06-10 05:37:40 +0200tv(~tv@user/tv) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
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2023-06-10 05:38:05 +0200dhruvasagar(~dhruvasag@49.207.218.223) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2023-06-10 05:38:05 +0200merijn(~merijn@c-001-001-004.client.esciencecenter.eduvpn.nl) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2023-06-10 05:38:57 +0200mrmr(~mrmr@user/mrmr)
2023-06-10 05:39:39 +0200wroathe(~wroathe@user/wroathe) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2023-06-10 05:40:35 +0200[itchyjunk](~itchyjunk@user/itchyjunk/x-7353470) (Remote host closed the connection)
2023-06-10 05:43:01 +0200dtman34(~dtman34@76.156.89.180) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2023-06-10 05:43:15 +0200 <Inst_> slowly brainwashing my Clojurian fanboy acquaintance into liking Haskell, or at least Idris
2023-06-10 05:43:19 +0200Inst_Inst
2023-06-10 05:43:34 +0200 <Inst> "hey ,if you hate Haskell, leran Idris so you can at least know what you're talking about"
2023-06-10 05:43:36 +0200 <Inst> bait accepted
2023-06-10 05:44:25 +0200 <Inst> https://paste.tomsmeding.com/67OhGSKS
2023-06-10 05:44:32 +0200dhruvasagar(~dhruvasag@49.207.218.223)
2023-06-10 05:45:46 +0200 <Inst> wondering if this version is "sinful" in that it seems to be passing an effectively unused value around, i.e, will the optimizer take away the penalty for trying to pass the mutvar around?
2023-06-10 05:48:33 +0200falafel(~falafel@136.228.104.88)
2023-06-10 05:49:20 +0200dhruvasagar(~dhruvasag@49.207.218.223) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2023-06-10 05:55:55 +0200dsrt^(~dsrt@c-71-204-38-59.hsd1.ga.comcast.net)
2023-06-10 05:58:57 +0200 <Inst> now i sort of want an unsafeInterleaveST
2023-06-10 05:58:59 +0200takuan(~takuan@178-116-218-225.access.telenet.be)
2023-06-10 05:59:15 +0200 <Inst> oh, it exists
2023-06-10 06:06:56 +0200dhruvasagar(~dhruvasag@49.207.218.223)
2023-06-10 06:07:52 +0200rekahsoft(~rekahsoft@bras-base-orllon1122w-grc-04-174-88-193-177.dsl.bell.ca)
2023-06-10 06:11:37 +0200dhruvasagar(~dhruvasag@49.207.218.223) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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2023-06-10 06:23:57 +0200dhruvasagar(~dhruvasag@49.207.218.223)
2023-06-10 06:23:59 +0200dtman34(~dtman34@2601:447:d000:93c9:aced:473b:ec74:db87)
2023-06-10 06:24:15 +0200chromoblob(~user@37.113.180.121)
2023-06-10 06:28:05 +0200dhruvasagar(~dhruvasag@49.207.218.223) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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2023-06-10 06:34:52 +0200dhruvasagar(~dhruvasag@49.207.218.223)
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2023-06-10 06:44:53 +0200coot_(~coot@89.69.206.216)
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2023-06-10 06:56:26 +0200thegeekinside(~thegeekin@189.217.90.138)
2023-06-10 06:57:07 +0200dhruvasagar(~dhruvasag@49.207.218.223)
2023-06-10 06:59:09 +0200merijn(~merijn@c-001-001-004.client.esciencecenter.eduvpn.nl)
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2023-06-10 07:13:43 +0200geekosaur(~geekosaur@xmonad/geekosaur) (Killed (NickServ (GHOST command used by allbery_b)))
2023-06-10 07:13:44 +0200allbery_b(~geekosaur@xmonad/geekosaur)
2023-06-10 07:13:47 +0200allbery_bgeekosaur
2023-06-10 07:13:57 +0200coot(~coot@89.69.206.216) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2023-06-10 07:14:12 +0200coot(~coot@89-69-206-216.dynamic.chello.pl)
2023-06-10 07:16:31 +0200werneta(~werneta@70-142-214-115.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
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2023-06-10 07:18:29 +0200incertia(~incertia@209.122.71.127)
2023-06-10 07:19:09 +0200dhruvasagar(~dhruvasag@49.207.218.223)
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2023-06-10 07:30:11 +0200gawen(~gawen@user/gawen) (Quit: cya)
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2023-06-10 07:32:35 +0200merijn(~merijn@c-001-001-004.client.esciencecenter.eduvpn.nl) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2023-06-10 07:36:07 +0200thegeekinside(~thegeekin@189.217.90.138) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2023-06-10 07:36:16 +0200dhruvasagar(~dhruvasag@49.207.218.223)
2023-06-10 07:40:37 +0200dhruvasagar(~dhruvasag@49.207.218.223) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2023-06-10 07:44:56 +0200chromoblob(~user@37.113.180.121)
2023-06-10 07:45:05 +0200dysfigured(~dfg@dfg.rocks)
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2023-06-10 07:52:41 +0200dhruvasagar(~dhruvasag@49.207.218.223)
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2023-06-10 08:46:50 +0200merijn(~merijn@c-001-001-004.client.esciencecenter.eduvpn.nl)
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2023-06-10 08:53:05 +0200gnalzo(~gnalzo@2a01:e0a:498:fd50:fcc6:bb5d:489a:ce8c) (Quit: WeeChat 3.8)
2023-06-10 08:53:09 +0200rekahsoft(~rekahsoft@bras-base-orllon1122w-grc-04-174-88-193-177.dsl.bell.ca) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2023-06-10 08:53:48 +0200tureba(~tureba@tureba.org)
2023-06-10 08:59:14 +0200mi7(~mi7@76.132.133.207)
2023-06-10 09:09:07 +0200Unicorn_Princess(~Unicorn_P@user/Unicorn-Princess/x-3540542)
2023-06-10 09:09:49 +0200notzmv(~zmv@user/notzmv) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
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2023-06-10 09:20:10 +0200 <c_wraith> it's *incredibly* unsafe
2023-06-10 09:20:19 +0200 <c_wraith> but sometimes it's what you need
2023-06-10 09:20:54 +0200merijn(~merijn@c-001-001-004.client.esciencecenter.eduvpn.nl) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2023-06-10 09:22:28 +0200 <probie> I don't think it's what is needed here
2023-06-10 09:24:29 +0200dtman34(~dtman34@76.156.89.180)
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2023-06-10 11:00:36 +0200Sgeo(~Sgeo@user/sgeo) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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2023-06-10 11:20:16 +0200beteigeuze(~Thunderbi@bl14-81-220.dsl.telepac.pt) (Client Quit)
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2023-06-10 11:20:42 +0200dhruvasagar(~dhruvasag@49.207.218.223)
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2023-06-10 11:29:06 +0200FinnElija(~finn_elij@user/finn-elija/x-0085643) (Killed (NickServ (Forcing logout FinnElija -> finn_elija)))
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2023-06-10 13:15:34 +0200img(~img@user/img) (Quit: ZNC 1.8.2 - https://znc.in)
2023-06-10 13:16:11 +0200dhruvasagar(~dhruvasag@49.207.218.223)
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2023-06-10 13:23:52 +0200Lycurgus(~juan@user/Lycurgus)
2023-06-10 13:29:29 +0200alexherbo2(~alexherbo@2a02-842a-8180-4601-1d58-656b-ba1a-a353.rev.sfr.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2023-06-10 13:30:29 +0200 <Inst> the unsafeInterleaveST doesn't help
2023-06-10 13:30:45 +0200 <Inst> and I've had experience using unsafeInterleaveIO to force an IO action to be lazy
2023-06-10 13:31:07 +0200 <Inst> everytime someone uses readFile, they're technically using unsafeInterleaveIO
2023-06-10 13:31:49 +0200gnalzo(~gnalzo@2a01:e0a:498:fd50:fcc6:bb5d:489a:ce8c)
2023-06-10 13:34:46 +0200merijn(~merijn@86-86-29-250.fixed.kpn.net)
2023-06-10 13:39:28 +0200dhruvasagar(~dhruvasag@49.207.218.223)
2023-06-10 13:44:55 +0200ru0mad(~ru0mad@titan.ruomad.net)
2023-06-10 13:45:17 +0200coot(~coot@89-69-206-216.dynamic.chello.pl) (Quit: coot)
2023-06-10 13:45:48 +0200ru0mad(~ru0mad@titan.ruomad.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2023-06-10 13:46:16 +0200ru0mad(~ru0mad@titan.ruomad.net)
2023-06-10 13:46:59 +0200 <int-e> help with what though
2023-06-10 13:51:00 +0200ru0mad(~ru0mad@titan.ruomad.net) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2023-06-10 14:05:48 +0200lortabac(~lortabac@2001:620:130:6092:1b1e:fdb3:d3f4:a94b)
2023-06-10 14:09:30 +0200merijn(~merijn@86-86-29-250.fixed.kpn.net) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2023-06-10 14:10:07 +0200dhruvasagar(~dhruvasag@49.207.218.223) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2023-06-10 14:13:40 +0200coot(~coot@89-69-206-216.dynamic.chello.pl)
2023-06-10 14:13:59 +0200 <hamzam3> Hello, I have a question about TH
2023-06-10 14:14:23 +0200 <hamzam3> Is there a way to reify a declaration and turn it into an expression ?
2023-06-10 14:17:29 +0200 <hamzam3> And to what extent is reification incomplete, because it seems like there is a lot of compiler information still not accessible (like function body) ?
2023-06-10 14:17:40 +0200kraftwerk28(~kraftwerk@178.62.210.83) (Quit: *disconnects*)
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2023-06-10 15:40:49 +0200Guest|83(~Guest|83@p4fdf70f3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2023-06-10 15:41:05 +0200 <Guest|83> Hallo
2023-06-10 15:41:15 +0200 <geekosaur> hi
2023-06-10 15:42:18 +0200 <Guest|83> ich möchte ghci installieren, weiß aber nicht wie. Habe es mehrmals versucht, jedoch ist es mir nicht gelungen. Können Sie mir bitte weiterhelfen ?
2023-06-10 15:42:37 +0200dhruvasagar(~dhruvasag@49.207.218.223) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2023-06-10 15:43:01 +0200dhruvasagar(~dhruvasag@49.207.218.223)
2023-06-10 15:43:14 +0200 <mauke> what operating system are you using, and what did you try?
2023-06-10 15:43:26 +0200 <jade[m]> ghci ist ein teil von ghc und wird darüber verteilt.
2023-06-10 15:43:57 +0200 <jade[m]> und es wäre gut zu wissen auf welchem OS du bist, wie mauke gefragt hat
2023-06-10 15:44:15 +0200 <Guest|83> ich benutze windows
2023-06-10 15:44:55 +0200 <mauke> what did you try and how did it fail?
2023-06-10 15:45:53 +0200 <jade[m]> https://www.haskell.org/ghcup/# hier sollte es einen command geben mit dem du ghcup auf windows installieren kannst
2023-06-10 15:46:14 +0200 <jade[m]> darüber kannst du dann ghc installieren, was es dir ermöglichen sollte ghci zu verwenden
2023-06-10 15:46:26 +0200eggplantade(~Eggplanta@2600:1700:38c5:d800:fcee:6fb9:64d2:31ae)
2023-06-10 15:47:57 +0200 <Guest|83> ich habe unter den Downloads versucht GHC zu installieren. Allerdings muss ich das mit dem terminal machen, weiß aber leider nicht wie.
2023-06-10 15:48:01 +0200wootehfoot(~wootehfoo@user/wootehfoot)
2023-06-10 15:48:46 +0200 <jade[m]> weißt du nicht wie man ein terminal bedient?
2023-06-10 15:49:11 +0200 <mauke> isn't there a graphical installer?
2023-06-10 15:49:12 +0200 <Guest|83> nicht so ganz
2023-06-10 15:49:24 +0200dhruvasagar(~dhruvasag@49.207.218.223) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2023-06-10 15:50:28 +0200eggplantade(~Eggplanta@2600:1700:38c5:d800:fcee:6fb9:64d2:31ae) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2023-06-10 15:50:39 +0200 <jade[m]> Guest|83: das ist leider nicht ganz unwichtig wenn es darum geht ghc(up) zu verwenden. Vielleicht könntest du damit anfangen und die basics der kommandozeile zu lernen
2023-06-10 15:50:46 +0200 <jade[m]> mauke: I'm not sure
2023-06-10 15:50:56 +0200L29Ah(~L29Ah@wikipedia/L29Ah)
2023-06-10 15:51:19 +0200dhruvasagar(~dhruvasag@49.207.218.223)
2023-06-10 15:51:21 +0200 <Guest|83> ok danke dir
2023-06-10 15:51:30 +0200 <Guest|83> werde es versuchen
2023-06-10 15:51:36 +0200 <mauke> on the other hand, doesn't ghci necessarily mean using a terminal?
2023-06-10 15:51:51 +0200 <mauke> I mean, it's basically a haskell shell, right?
2023-06-10 15:52:03 +0200 <jade[m]> mauke: that's what I told them and suggested they learn to use the terminal first and foremost :)
2023-06-10 15:53:12 +0200 <geekosaur> winghci still exists somewhere…
2023-06-10 15:54:00 +0200 <geekosaur> but yes, your installation options on windows are ghcup and chocolatey, which both are terminal based
2023-06-10 15:56:06 +0200 <mauke> consider switching to linux
2023-06-10 15:56:12 +0200 <mauke> we have graphical package managers :-D
2023-06-10 15:56:28 +0200 <geekosaur> and `ghcup tui` 🙂
2023-06-10 15:57:10 +0200 <mauke> ghcup is nice but semi-broken
2023-06-10 15:57:49 +0200 <jade[m]> how so?
2023-06-10 15:58:54 +0200 <mauke> it blindly assumes that the terminal supports alternate screens
2023-06-10 15:59:41 +0200 <jade[m]> oh
2023-06-10 16:00:05 +0200 <geekosaur> mm. I know maerwald and I discussed support for scrolling regions (not supported on old ANSI.SYS for example), but not alternate screens
2023-06-10 16:00:30 +0200dhruvasagar(~dhruvasag@49.207.218.223) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2023-06-10 16:01:01 +0200vandita(~vandit@188-143-101-121.pool.digikabel.hu) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2023-06-10 16:01:25 +0200__monty__(~toonn@user/toonn)
2023-06-10 16:01:54 +0200 <geekosaur> ANSI X3.64 requires less than people tend to assume
2023-06-10 16:02:13 +0200justache-justache
2023-06-10 16:02:29 +0200 <geekosaur> (and alternate screens at least used to be a feature some people deliberately disabled in termcap/terminfo)
2023-06-10 16:02:41 +0200vandita(~vandit@77-234-86-169.pool.digikabel.hu)
2023-06-10 16:03:00 +0200maukeraises hand
2023-06-10 16:03:06 +0200 <mauke> it's also an option in tmux
2023-06-10 16:03:33 +0200 <mauke> and I disable it because it makes less -F unusable
2023-06-10 16:04:12 +0200merijn(~merijn@c-001-001-004.client.esciencecenter.eduvpn.nl) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2023-06-10 16:06:58 +0200 <mauke> https://imgur.com/a/e9jReRN this is what it looks like when you use ghcup to install HLS and exit
2023-06-10 16:08:26 +0200 <ManofLetters[m]> how do I coerce a function of type `(Eq a, Foo a) => a -> a` to type `Eq a => a -> a`? If Foo is Num, unsafeCoerce works great, but if Foo has no methods it fails: https://play.haskell.org/saved/5PL9vRvg
2023-06-10 16:08:34 +0200 <jade[m]> oh, I think TTYs also don't have alternate screens iirc
2023-06-10 16:08:43 +0200 <jade[m]> that's why using vim in one sucks
2023-06-10 16:08:50 +0200 <jade[m]> atleast after exit
2023-06-10 16:13:42 +0200 <hololeap> @hackage free
2023-06-10 16:13:42 +0200 <lambdabot> https://hackage.haskell.org/package/free
2023-06-10 16:15:40 +0200 <ncf> ManofLetters[m]: note that it also doesn't work if you omit `Foo a` in the type signature
2023-06-10 16:15:53 +0200 <ncf> my guess is that g2 only works accidentally because of the defaulting rules for Num
2023-06-10 16:16:08 +0200 <mauke> jade[m]: what do you mean?
2023-06-10 16:16:34 +0200robertm(robertm@lattice.rojoma.com) (Quit: WeeChat 3.0)
2023-06-10 16:17:11 +0200[itchyjunk](~itchyjunk@user/itchyjunk/x-7353470)
2023-06-10 16:17:18 +0200Guest|83(~Guest|83@p4fdf70f3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Quit: Connection closed)
2023-06-10 16:17:40 +0200jade[m]uploaded an image: (177KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/the-apothecary.club/qzPNjXLCLRCDSPcnBdpwpwCF/202… >
2023-06-10 16:19:10 +0200robertm(robertm@lattice.rojoma.com)
2023-06-10 16:19:17 +0200 <mauke> I don't think that's vim
2023-06-10 16:19:36 +0200 <jade[m]> yeah no, i wanted to demonstrate with the same example as you
2023-06-10 16:19:56 +0200 <ManofLetters[m]> ncf: hah, funny, thank you; it also fails if I put Ord instead of Foo and, in hindsight, it makes sense, because it would need to create the Ord dictionary out of thin air; however, for Foo, which has empty dictionary, it could work... :(
2023-06-10 16:20:26 +0200 <ncf> instance Foo a where
2023-06-10 16:20:39 +0200 <ncf> now it works :)
2023-06-10 16:21:19 +0200 <ManofLetters[m]> oh dear the Foo I need this for is from an external library and it doesn't have the where
2023-06-10 16:21:37 +0200ub(~Thunderbi@p548c91e0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2023-06-10 16:21:49 +0200 <ManofLetters[m]> this is the Foo: https://hackage.haskell.org/package/orthotope-0.1.2.0/docs/Data-Array-Internal-Shape.html#t:Permut…
2023-06-10 16:22:08 +0200ubert(~Thunderbi@p200300ecdf00020fa50f8d1a24e7a70c.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2023-06-10 16:22:08 +0200ububert
2023-06-10 16:22:43 +0200 <ncf> (actually, it works after you η-expand: g x = unsafeCoerce (f x))
2023-06-10 16:23:21 +0200 <ncf> (or use ScopedTypeVariables and apply f to the same a)
2023-06-10 16:23:50 +0200 <ncf> what do you mean it doesn't have the where?
2023-06-10 16:24:34 +0200 <ManofLetters[m]> see its source code, there is no where
2023-06-10 16:24:44 +0200 <ncf> so what?
2023-06-10 16:24:58 +0200 <ncf> isn't that just syntax?
2023-06-10 16:25:02 +0200 <geekosaur> yes
2023-06-10 16:25:17 +0200 <geekosaur> dropping `where` is a minor ghc extension that should mean the same thing
2023-06-10 16:25:34 +0200 <geekosaur> (actually it may be an H2010 extension over H98)
2023-06-10 16:25:46 +0200 <ManofLetters[m]> well, this doesn't work, what am I missing: https://play.haskell.org/saved/OyqNBzPI
2023-06-10 16:26:07 +0200 <ncf> instance Foo a
2023-06-10 16:26:21 +0200 <ncf> also you can drop unsafeCoerce now
2023-06-10 16:28:00 +0200merijn(~merijn@86-86-29-250.fixed.kpn.net)
2023-06-10 16:28:20 +0200 <ManofLetters[m]> if I add `instance Ord a => Foo a` it still doesn't work
2023-06-10 16:28:24 +0200dhruvasagar(~dhruvasag@49.207.218.223)
2023-06-10 16:28:57 +0200 <ManofLetters[m]> the point is that I know the a type I generated at runtime is safe in this context, but I can't express this on the type level
2023-06-10 16:29:00 +0200 <ManofLetters[m]> so I have to cheat
2023-06-10 16:30:06 +0200 <geekosaur> I feel like that's what `Typeable` and `cast` are for?
2023-06-10 16:30:20 +0200 <ManofLetters[m]> ok, thanks a lot; I will try that
2023-06-10 16:30:31 +0200ManofLetters[m]has to vanish ATM
2023-06-10 16:31:06 +0200 <geekosaur> Typeable carries the witness that it's valid, cast uses the witness to "safeCoerce"
2023-06-10 16:34:37 +0200dhruvasagar(~dhruvasag@49.207.218.223) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2023-06-10 16:34:53 +0200 <ManofLetters[m]> in any case, here's the last version, failing; I will try if Typeable and cast can make it work: https://play.haskell.org/saved/aZZxX1HQ
2023-06-10 16:35:05 +0200ManofLetters[m]really vanishes
2023-06-10 16:45:59 +0200dhruvasagar(~dhruvasag@49.207.218.223)
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2023-06-10 18:21:31 +0200merijn(~merijn@c-001-001-004.client.esciencecenter.eduvpn.nl)
2023-06-10 18:44:51 +0200 <hippoid> i'm looking for an example of a nix flake that is used to run a script that uses the Turtle shell package. can anyone point me at one?
2023-06-10 18:57:32 +0200aliosablack(~chomwitt@2a02:587:7a0e:cf00:1ac0:4dff:fedb:a3f1)
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2023-06-10 19:45:53 +0200lortabac(~lortabac@46-253-188-52.dynamic.monzoon.net)
2023-06-10 19:50:07 +0200Sgeo(~Sgeo@user/sgeo)
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2023-06-10 20:05:33 +0200bontaq(~user@ool-45779b84.dyn.optonline.net)
2023-06-10 20:09:01 +0200merijn(~merijn@c-001-001-004.client.esciencecenter.eduvpn.nl) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2023-06-10 20:09:08 +0200gmg(~user@user/gehmehgeh) (Quit: Leaving)
2023-06-10 20:11:56 +0200 <ManofLetters[m]> nah, I can't get the coercions to work
2023-06-10 20:12:15 +0200 <ManofLetters[m]> let me pose the question differently: there's his function `withDict :: forall {rr :: RuntimeRep} (r :: TYPE rr). meth -> (cls => r) -> r` https://downloads.haskell.org/ghc/latest/docs/libraries/base-4.18.0.0/GHC-Exts.html#v:withDict
2023-06-10 20:12:31 +0200 <ManofLetters[m]> but it only works for classes that have exactly one method (I think)
2023-06-10 20:12:41 +0200 <ManofLetters[m]> is there a version for classes that have zero methods?
2023-06-10 20:14:10 +0200 <ManofLetters[m]> (unless I'm misunderstading what withDict does, let me quickly verify...)
2023-06-10 20:15:25 +0200Pickchea(~private@user/pickchea)
2023-06-10 20:15:45 +0200 <albet70> map p (x : xs) = (p x) : (map p xs)
2023-06-10 20:16:08 +0200cafkafk(~cafkafk@fsf/member/cafkafk) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2023-06-10 20:16:08 +0200 <albet70> mapK p (x: xs) k = p x $ \v -> mapK p xs $ \ns -> k (v : ns)
2023-06-10 20:16:13 +0200ru0mad(~ru0mad@titan.ruomad.net)
2023-06-10 20:17:08 +0200 <albet70> this mapK can do exit early, and traverse can do that too, are they related?
2023-06-10 20:17:49 +0200 <albet70> so are there apK and bindK?
2023-06-10 20:18:25 +0200 <ncf> ManofLetters[m]: possibly the version in https://hackage.haskell.org/package/constraints-0.13.4/docs/Data-Constraint.html#v:withDict is more general
2023-06-10 20:18:26 +0200 <Cale> albet70: They're related by the fact that they're both equivalent to mapM for different monads.
2023-06-10 20:18:30 +0200cafkafk(~cafkafk@fsf/member/cafkafk)
2023-06-10 20:19:01 +0200 <ncf> albet70: you might want to google the words "mother of all monads"
2023-06-10 20:20:03 +0200 <[Leary]> ManofLetters[m]: I think you want something like `data Dict c = c => Dict; class Trivial; instance Trivial; fooDict :: Dict (Foo a); fooDict = unsafeCoerce (Dict :: Dict Trivial); dischargeFoo :: (Foo a => r) -> r; dischargeFoo r = case fooDict of Dict -> r`, or the equivalent using `constraints`.
2023-06-10 20:20:03 +0200 <ncf> (http://blog.sigfpe.com/2008/12/mother-of-all-monads.html)
2023-06-10 20:20:07 +0200dhruvasagar(~dhruvasag@49.207.218.223) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2023-06-10 20:20:15 +0200 <albet70> @hoogle mapM
2023-06-10 20:20:15 +0200 <lambdabot> Prelude mapM :: (Traversable t, Monad m) => (a -> m b) -> t a -> m (t b)
2023-06-10 20:20:15 +0200 <lambdabot> Control.Monad mapM :: (Traversable t, Monad m) => (a -> m b) -> t a -> m (t b)
2023-06-10 20:20:15 +0200 <lambdabot> Data.Traversable mapM :: (Traversable t, Monad m) => (a -> m b) -> t a -> m (t b)
2023-06-10 20:21:02 +0200 <Cale> ncf: Is it though? The WithDict in GHC.Exts is scary low level shit that lets you break things, while the one in constraints is basically an ordinary thing you could write yourself.
2023-06-10 20:21:34 +0200Unicorn_Princess(~Unicorn_P@user/Unicorn-Princess/x-3540542) (Remote host closed the connection)
2023-06-10 20:21:56 +0200 <ncf> no idea
2023-06-10 20:22:44 +0200dolio(~dolio@130.44.134.54) (Quit: ZNC 1.8.2 - https://znc.in)
2023-06-10 20:22:58 +0200 <Cale> The scary part is that GHC.Exts.withDict lets you provide functions that don't correspond to any actual instances of the classes, and end up providing different implementations as evidence for the same class constraints in different parts of your program
2023-06-10 20:24:04 +0200 <Cale> Normally the way that things are set up, when you have a constraint (C T) that gets satisfied, there's a guarantee that the implementation of the methods is the same, no matter what route you took to constructing the type class dictionary.
2023-06-10 20:24:42 +0200ru0mad(~ru0mad@titan.ruomad.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2023-06-10 20:25:18 +0200ru0mad(~ru0mad@titan.ruomad.net)
2023-06-10 20:26:09 +0200 <Cale> GHC.Exts.withDict lets you break that, which, well, you can't use it with Ord because it only works for single-method classes, but if Ord had a single method, you could use it to break invariants in Data.Map and Data.Set and e.g. insert items that can't be retrieved because they're located in the wrong part of the underlying tree structure
2023-06-10 20:26:25 +0200dolio(~dolio@130.44.134.54)
2023-06-10 20:26:49 +0200 <Cale> It's a much more dangerous thing than it possibly looks like
2023-06-10 20:27:44 +0200ru0mad_(~ru0mad@82-64-17-144.subs.proxad.net)
2023-06-10 20:28:07 +0200ru0mad(~ru0mad@titan.ruomad.net) (Client Quit)
2023-06-10 20:29:08 +0200 <ManofLetters[m]> *phew*, it works with `withDict` at least: https://play.haskell.org/saved/4HsLFuKw , so my question made sense --- I want the same for classes with no methods; ncf, [Leary], Cale, thanks a lot, I will now try to understand what you mean and adjust the example accordingly
2023-06-10 20:29:35 +0200dolio(~dolio@130.44.134.54) (Client Quit)
2023-06-10 20:31:12 +0200merijn(~merijn@c-001-001-004.client.esciencecenter.eduvpn.nl)
2023-06-10 20:31:15 +0200 <Cale> ManofLetters[m]: I'm basically just warning you that you should be very careful if you're intending to put something like this into production code -- usage of this thing can devolve into incomprehensible nightmares where basic expectations about how things work in Haskell are broken.
2023-06-10 20:31:40 +0200 <Cale> But if you're just messing around, go right ahead :)
2023-06-10 20:31:41 +0200 <ManofLetters[m]> heh, duly noted
2023-06-10 20:32:07 +0200 <ManofLetters[m]> but in classes with no methods the risk is much less low-level
2023-06-10 20:32:18 +0200 <Cale> With zero methods, it is probably somewhat safe, yeah
2023-06-10 20:32:34 +0200 <Cale> withDict is fundamentally just doing an unsafeCoerce
2023-06-10 20:32:34 +0200dhruvasagar(~dhruvasag@49.207.218.223)
2023-06-10 20:32:41 +0200 <ManofLetters[m]> in my case it's this class: https://hackage.haskell.org/package/orthotope-0.1.2.0/docs/Data-Array-Internal-Shape.html#t:Permut…
2023-06-10 20:32:43 +0200 <lortabac> Cale: AFAIU providing different instances for the same constraints is exactly the purpose of GHC.Exts.withDict
2023-06-10 20:32:58 +0200 <lortabac> it allows you to create local instances
2023-06-10 20:32:58 +0200 <Cale> lortabac: Yes, and that's a terrible thing to do, usually.
2023-06-10 20:33:24 +0200 <lortabac> it's meant to be used in places where global coherence is not needed
2023-06-10 20:33:44 +0200 <monochrom> Every time you think "my little sketchy program will never go into production" it totally will.
2023-06-10 20:33:51 +0200 <Cale> A lot of stuff relies on instances being consistent, so you can break expectations that people designing datastructures had
2023-06-10 20:34:42 +0200 <lortabac> there is also another problem with 'withDict', that is you can't override a local instance
2023-06-10 20:35:03 +0200 <lortabac> so if you use it in a place where an instance is already in scope, it won't do anything
2023-06-10 20:35:09 +0200 <Cale> ManofLetters[m]: You might just be able to unsafeCoerce away the difference between C a => r and r when C is a class with no methods, give that a try and see if it segfaults.
2023-06-10 20:35:13 +0200dolio(~dolio@130.44.134.54)
2023-06-10 20:35:21 +0200 <lortabac> which can lead to unexpected behavior
2023-06-10 20:35:59 +0200 <Cale> If I recall correctly, GHC.Exts.withDict is just implemented with an unsafeCoerce anyway
2023-06-10 20:36:15 +0200 <lortabac> Cale: no, it's built-in
2023-06-10 20:36:21 +0200 <ManofLetters[m]> Cale: I tried and I can't: https://play.haskell.org/saved/aZZxX1HQ
2023-06-10 20:36:28 +0200 <Cale> Well, yeah, it got changed to be a built-in to be a bit more safe
2023-06-10 20:37:00 +0200 <Cale> But Ed discovered that he could do that and then asked the GHC folks to provide a slightly less dangerous solution :)
2023-06-10 20:37:00 +0200 <[Leary]> It's safest to coerce a trivial dictionary.
2023-06-10 20:37:23 +0200dhruvasagar(~dhruvasag@49.207.218.223) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2023-06-10 20:37:29 +0200 <Cale> [Leary]: oh yeah, you could just make a Dict for another class you know has no methods and coerce that
2023-06-10 20:38:58 +0200 <ManofLetters[m]> * can't: https://play.haskell.org/saved/aZZxX1HQ [Edit: I mean, I can't make it type-check; I don't know if it would segfault]
2023-06-10 20:41:08 +0200notzmv(~zmv@user/notzmv) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2023-06-10 20:41:38 +0200 <Cale> g x = (unsafeCoerce (f :: Int -> Int) :: Eq a => a -> a) x
2023-06-10 20:41:42 +0200 <Cale> haha
2023-06-10 20:42:03 +0200nattiestnate(~nate@2001:448a:20a3:c2e5:71b9:a710:2866:667f)
2023-06-10 20:42:32 +0200 <monochrom> "this is madness"
2023-06-10 20:42:57 +0200 <Cale> GHC gets side-tracked despite the unsafeCoerce there because it sees there's an instance of Foo for all types a, and tries to satisfy it
2023-06-10 20:43:17 +0200tom__(~tom@2a00:23c8:970c:4801:5b6a:e81b:79dc:f684)
2023-06-10 20:43:49 +0200 <Cale> That instance Ord a => Foo a isn't something you'd likely want around in practice, since it doesn't do any matching on the type at all, and would conflict with any other instance for Foo
2023-06-10 20:43:59 +0200dhruvasagar(~dhruvasag@49.207.218.223)
2023-06-10 20:44:58 +0200 <ManofLetters[m]> yes, I want this and and this instance: https://hackage.haskell.org/package/orthotope-0.1.2.0/docs/Data-Array-Internal-Shape.html#t:Permut…
2023-06-10 20:45:19 +0200 <ManofLetters[m]> let me add it to the example...
2023-06-10 20:45:20 +0200zincy(~tom@2a00:23c8:970c:4801:5b6a:e81b:79dc:f684) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2023-06-10 20:46:05 +0200 <ManofLetters[m]> which will require a few more imports and extensions...
2023-06-10 20:46:45 +0200user____3(~user@103.206.114.69)
2023-06-10 20:47:00 +0200user____3tosyl
2023-06-10 20:47:18 +0200 <Cale> https://play.haskell.org/saved/l03RDPCK -- saner way
2023-06-10 20:47:29 +0200vandita(~vandit@84.236.21.46) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2023-06-10 20:47:36 +0200 <Cale> (still dangerous of course)
2023-06-10 20:48:00 +0200tosyl(~user@103.206.114.69) (Client Quit)
2023-06-10 20:48:26 +0200tosyl_(~user@103.206.114.113)
2023-06-10 20:48:33 +0200dhruvasagar(~dhruvasag@49.207.218.223) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2023-06-10 20:49:04 +0200vandita(~vandit@92-249-150-144.static.digikabel.hu)
2023-06-10 20:49:04 +0200tosyl_wns
2023-06-10 20:49:14 +0200 <Cale> Usually people make classes with no methods in order to represent some facts about the world. You might instead just want to write the appropriate instances of those classes if you think they ought to be satisfied.
2023-06-10 20:49:19 +0200gnalzo(~gnalzo@2a01:e0a:498:fd50:fcc6:bb5d:489a:ce8c)
2023-06-10 20:51:51 +0200 <Cale> For example, this Permutation class seems to be expressing the notion that the list of type level Nats is a permutation, and ought to already be satisfied by any list of Nats which consists of 0 through n-1 in some order.
2023-06-10 20:52:17 +0200dtman34(~dtman34@2601:447:d000:93c9:bdda:f673:5d0e:d1f) (Quit: ZNC 1.8.2+deb2+b1 - https://znc.in)
2023-06-10 20:52:52 +0200 <Cale> Are you trying to sidestep a bunch of compile-time calculation of whether certain type level lists are in fact permutations?
2023-06-10 20:53:02 +0200 <ManofLetters[m]> here is the "realistic" version: https://play.haskell.org/saved/LjCjX7w6
2023-06-10 20:53:13 +0200chromoblob(~user@37.113.180.121)
2023-06-10 20:53:21 +0200ManofLetters[m]looks and Cale's code
2023-06-10 20:53:23 +0200dtman34(~dtman34@2601:447:d000:93c9:5693:befa:fb33:172e)
2023-06-10 20:54:28 +0200 <Cale> What are you actually trying to do with this in the end? It's likely that if you're getting compile errors about an instance of this class not existing, then you're trying to use something incorrectly.
2023-06-10 20:54:33 +0200dtman34(~dtman34@2601:447:d000:93c9:5693:befa:fb33:172e) (Remote host closed the connection)
2023-06-10 20:54:38 +0200dhruvasagar(~dhruvasag@49.207.218.223)
2023-06-10 20:55:06 +0200 <ManofLetters[m]> Cale: I'm constructing a type at runtime so I can't produce an evidence of this constraint: https://github.com/Mikolaj/horde-ad/blob/fafebfe05ce6da097d32a8dd8b5358afe518b7d5/simplified/Horde…
2023-06-10 20:55:11 +0200 <ManofLetters[m]> this is a hack caused by a hack'
2023-06-10 20:55:18 +0200shapr(~user@2600:1700:c640:3100:fb8d:10ae:e6ec:9d78)
2023-06-10 20:55:26 +0200 <ManofLetters[m]> one workaround requiring another
2023-06-10 20:55:44 +0200 <Cale> hmmm
2023-06-10 20:56:02 +0200 <ManofLetters[m]> I know the original perm type has the desired property
2023-06-10 20:56:17 +0200 <ManofLetters[m]> then I make a runtime representation of the perm
2023-06-10 20:56:20 +0200 <ManofLetters[m]> then I reverse it
2023-06-10 20:56:35 +0200 <ManofLetters[m]> which guarantees it still has the property of being a legal permutation
2023-06-10 20:56:50 +0200 <ManofLetters[m]> then I make a type from the runtime representation
2023-06-10 20:57:10 +0200 <ManofLetters[m]> and there I'm stuck, because the type system doesn't know the permutation was just reversed
2023-06-10 20:57:17 +0200 <Cale> Ah, so the problem is that Haskell is a bad dependently typed language and won't let you use term-level functions on lists of Nats at the type level :)
2023-06-10 20:57:29 +0200 <ManofLetters[m]> yep
2023-06-10 20:57:44 +0200 <ManofLetters[m]> I would need to code them at type level
2023-06-10 20:57:49 +0200chromoblob(~user@37.113.180.121) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2023-06-10 20:57:51 +0200 <ManofLetters[m]> which is surely doable, just a lot of work
2023-06-10 20:58:03 +0200 <ManofLetters[m]> e.g., I'd need sorting of type-level lists of nats for a start
2023-06-10 20:58:08 +0200 <Cale> Fair enough
2023-06-10 20:58:24 +0200 <ManofLetters[m]> and compilation times would not be amusing
2023-06-10 20:58:34 +0200 <Cale> I suppose this is a reasonable enough case to put something in which says "trust me, I know this is a permutation"
2023-06-10 20:59:00 +0200 <Cale> You could write something like...
2023-06-10 20:59:01 +0200lortabac(~lortabac@46-253-188-52.dynamic.monzoon.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2023-06-10 20:59:08 +0200dtman34(~dtman34@2601:447:d000:93c9:f69f:1c9f:25a2:cccc)
2023-06-10 20:59:13 +0200 <Cale> Let me use your playground with the real definitions copied in
2023-06-10 20:59:21 +0200 <ManofLetters[m]> +1
2023-06-10 20:59:35 +0200dhruvasagar(~dhruvasag@49.207.218.223) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2023-06-10 21:00:51 +0200 <probie> ManofLetters[m]: can you use something like https://hackage.haskell.org/package/reflection to provide the constraint at runtime?
2023-06-10 21:01:46 +0200 <ManofLetters[m]> that's a good question
2023-06-10 21:02:10 +0200 <ManofLetters[m]> 1. can I construct a rutime representation of the (AllElem is (Count 0 is)) constraints
2023-06-10 21:02:23 +0200 <ManofLetters[m]> 2. can I feed it somewhere so that the type-checker is happy
2023-06-10 21:02:32 +0200cheater_(~Username@user/cheater)
2023-06-10 21:02:57 +0200 <ManofLetters[m]> what we are brainstorming right now is how to do 2 with a fake representation (basically a "Trust me (TM)" proof)
2023-06-10 21:03:05 +0200 <ManofLetters[m]> I think
2023-06-10 21:03:36 +0200 <Cale> https://play.haskell.org/saved/J8b8V6II
2023-06-10 21:03:52 +0200 <Cale> ^^ that's what you're looking for I think
2023-06-10 21:04:19 +0200 <Cale> Note that the explicit type argument is not optional, GHC gets confused about what permutaiton you're asking about otherwise.
2023-06-10 21:04:25 +0200 <Cale> permutation*
2023-06-10 21:05:04 +0200wroathe(~wroathe@user/wroathe) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2023-06-10 21:05:07 +0200cheater(~Username@user/cheater) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2023-06-10 21:05:08 +0200merijn(~merijn@c-001-001-004.client.esciencecenter.eduvpn.nl) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2023-06-10 21:05:17 +0200cheater_cheater
2023-06-10 21:06:06 +0200 <ManofLetters[m]> wow, thank you so much; let me try...
2023-06-10 21:06:09 +0200notzmv(~zmv@user/notzmv)
2023-06-10 21:07:07 +0200 <Cale> Oh, it just struck me that I didn't need to make a new class, I could have unsafeCoerced a real instance of Permutation
2023-06-10 21:08:13 +0200 <Cale> trustMeThisIsAPermutationDict = unsafeCoerce (Dict :: Dict (Permutation '[]))
2023-06-10 21:09:20 +0200merijn(~merijn@c-001-001-004.client.esciencecenter.eduvpn.nl)
2023-06-10 21:09:35 +0200 <ManofLetters[m]> I will try that, too
2023-06-10 21:11:03 +0200emmanuelux(~emmanuelu@user/emmanuelux) (Quit: au revoir)
2023-06-10 21:22:53 +0200dhruvasagar(~dhruvasag@49.207.218.223)
2023-06-10 21:27:07 +0200dhruvasagar(~dhruvasag@49.207.218.223) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2023-06-10 21:29:20 +0200__monty__(~toonn@user/toonn) (Quit: leaving)
2023-06-10 21:29:33 +0200 <ManofLetters[m]> amazing, this type-checks in the wild and I bet it works (but this portion of code is still a week's work away from being testable)
2023-06-10 21:29:48 +0200 <ManofLetters[m]> Cale: under what name may I credit you?
2023-06-10 21:30:27 +0200michalz(~michalz@185.246.207.203)
2023-06-10 21:31:44 +0200merijn(~merijn@c-001-001-004.client.esciencecenter.eduvpn.nl) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2023-06-10 21:34:24 +0200ru0mad_(~ru0mad@82-64-17-144.subs.proxad.net) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2023-06-10 21:37:40 +0200 <ManofLetters[m]> in any case, here's the commit: https://github.com/Mikolaj/horde-ad/commit/1b2c944e24856bee7fa447892430e8d258def58a
2023-06-10 21:39:31 +0200dhruvasagar(~dhruvasag@49.207.218.223)
2023-06-10 21:40:41 +0200ManofLetters[m]now tries to understand the trick
2023-06-10 21:42:15 +0200 <ManofLetters[m]> [Leary]: that's actually very close to what you wrote, as far as I being to grok
2023-06-10 21:44:36 +0200dhruvasagar(~dhruvasag@49.207.218.223) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2023-06-10 21:50:24 +0200dhruvasagar(~dhruvasag@49.207.218.223)
2023-06-10 21:55:32 +0200pavonia(~user@user/siracusa)
2023-06-10 21:55:39 +0200coot(~coot@89-69-206-216.dynamic.chello.pl) (Quit: coot)
2023-06-10 21:57:42 +0200dhruvasagar(~dhruvasag@49.207.218.223) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2023-06-10 21:59:02 +0200merijn(~merijn@c-001-001-004.client.esciencecenter.eduvpn.nl)
2023-06-10 22:03:15 +0200Nuxular(~Nuxular@4.166.147.147.dyn.plus.net)
2023-06-10 22:03:52 +0200 <Nuxular> I'm having a lot of trouble getting stack to run on windows. Whenever I try to run ghci I get "Executable named sh not found on path: ..."
2023-06-10 22:04:57 +0200merijn(~merijn@c-001-001-004.client.esciencecenter.eduvpn.nl) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2023-06-10 22:05:02 +0200 <Nuxular> I've even uninstalled and tried an old installer which worked for a different machine and it's still complaining about needing 'sh' (despite that being a unix thing).
2023-06-10 22:05:19 +0200zincy(~tom@host81-151-255-71.range81-151.btcentralplus.com)
2023-06-10 22:05:52 +0200 <[exa]> Nuxular: how did you install it precisely?
2023-06-10 22:06:30 +0200 <[exa]> Nuxular: I'm not using windows but iirc the common recommendation to run stuff reasonably is to go ghcup + WSL
2023-06-10 22:06:46 +0200wns(~user@103.206.114.113) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2023-06-10 22:07:06 +0200user2(~user@103.206.114.124)
2023-06-10 22:07:06 +0200user2wns
2023-06-10 22:08:51 +0200 <Nuxular> [exa]: I've gone through a few different attempts at this point. ghcup was one that I tried but I did avoid installing WSL because it wasn't necessary in the past and it seemed like that would lock me into using some kind of embedding of a linux file system.
2023-06-10 22:09:11 +0200 <Nuxular> [exa]: my last attempt was using https://github.com/commercialhaskell/stack/releases and finding a release that had worked for me previously
2023-06-10 22:09:24 +0200 <Nuxular> windows x86_64 installer
2023-06-10 22:09:58 +0200dhruvasagar(~dhruvasag@49.207.218.223)
2023-06-10 22:10:23 +0200tom__(~tom@2a00:23c8:970c:4801:5b6a:e81b:79dc:f684) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2023-06-10 22:10:55 +0200 <geekosaur> fwiw it's demanding sh from a minimal mingw installation which either ghcup or stack should install
2023-06-10 22:12:53 +0200 <Nuxular> I do remember installing mingw at some point in the past but I don't know if that was necessary to get things working... I have access to one machine that works fine and uses stack version 2.9.3. I only had to reinstall on this machine because of a boot drive failure :(
2023-06-10 22:14:08 +0200dhruvasagar(~dhruvasag@49.207.218.223) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2023-06-10 22:14:28 +0200 <Nuxular> running "stack" via cmd.exe or powershell comes up with the usual but whenever I pass any argument which would result in a REPL I get this "sh" complaint.
2023-06-10 22:14:40 +0200 <Nuxular> Even after reinstalls
2023-06-10 22:15:23 +0200merijn(~merijn@86-86-29-250.fixed.kpn.net)
2023-06-10 22:16:10 +0200Pickchea(~private@user/pickchea) (Quit: Leaving)
2023-06-10 22:16:39 +0200 <Nuxular> Does anyone know if the installer downloads anything? Could it be the problem isn't on my end?
2023-06-10 22:18:06 +0200oac(~oac@72-50-214-210.fttp.usinternet.com)
2023-06-10 22:20:59 +0200merijn(~merijn@86-86-29-250.fixed.kpn.net) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2023-06-10 22:21:14 +0200vandita(~vandit@92-249-150-144.static.digikabel.hu) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2023-06-10 22:21:44 +0200 <geekosaur> stack downloads stuff wantonly. ghcup downloads on demand, but does a lot of stuff on initial install including recommended versions of ghc, cabal, and stack, and on windows a minimal mingw install
2023-06-10 22:23:00 +0200vandita(~vandit@84-236-10-4.pool.digikabel.hu)
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2023-06-10 22:26:44 +0200dhruvasagar(~dhruvasag@49.207.218.223)
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2023-06-10 22:34:12 +0200merijn(~merijn@c-001-001-004.client.esciencecenter.eduvpn.nl)
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2023-06-10 22:36:50 +0200jinsun__(~jinsun@user/jinsun)
2023-06-10 22:36:51 +0200jinsun(~jinsun@user/jinsun) (Killed (erbium.libera.chat (Nickname regained by services)))
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2023-06-10 22:37:38 +0200dhruvasagar(~dhruvasag@49.207.218.223)
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2023-06-10 22:39:27 +0200titibandit(~titibandi@user/titibandit)
2023-06-10 22:41:18 +0200 <Nuxular> So I've just run the same installer on another machine and it works fine so it's looking like there's some unknown issue with my system..
2023-06-10 22:42:07 +0200dhruvasagar(~dhruvasag@49.207.218.223) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2023-06-10 22:42:13 +0200 <Nuxular> I suspect that my attempts at setting up Haskell to run through visual studio code is to blame but it's hard to say how
2023-06-10 22:54:15 +0200 <Nuxular> ok it looks like I got it working. In the console output of the successful installation I just did on another machine it mentioned this:
2023-06-10 22:54:15 +0200 <Nuxular> Writing implicit global project config file to: C:\sr\global-project\stack.yaml
2023-06-10 22:54:16 +0200 <Nuxular> Note: You can change the snapshot via the resolver field there.
2023-06-10 22:54:16 +0200 <Nuxular> Using latest snapshot resolver: lts-20.25
2023-06-10 22:54:17 +0200 <Nuxular> Since whenever the installation wouldn't work it didn't say this I figured this was the folder to delete and when I did that it remade it proceeded to work on my main machine again.
2023-06-10 22:55:21 +0200gmg(~user@user/gehmehgeh)
2023-06-10 22:56:05 +0200cheater(~Username@user/cheater) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2023-06-10 22:56:23 +0200 <Nuxular> I've got a copy of the folder I deleted if anyone want it to help prevent other people having the same issue
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2023-06-10 23:50:38 +0200dhruvasagar(~dhruvasag@49.207.218.223)
2023-06-10 23:55:33 +0200dhruvasagar(~dhruvasag@49.207.218.223) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2023-06-10 23:59:24 +0200 <Cale> ManofLetters[m]: Cale Gibbard if you like