| 2023-04-21 00:02:32 +0200 | barcisz | (~barcisz@79.191.75.215.ipv4.supernova.orange.pl) |
| 2023-04-21 00:03:42 +0200 | czy | (~user@host-140-25.ilcub310.champaign.il.us.clients.pavlovmedia.net) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2023-04-21 00:04:09 +0200 | czy | (~user@host-140-25.ilcub310.champaign.il.us.clients.pavlovmedia.net) |
| 2023-04-21 00:09:37 +0200 | extor | (~extor@ns3018124.ip-149-202-82.eu) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2023-04-21 00:12:22 +0200 | heraldo | (~heraldo@user/heraldo) (Quit: heraldo) |
| 2023-04-21 00:16:36 +0200 | roboguy_ | (~roboguy_@cpe-69-76-235-109.kc.res.rr.com) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2023-04-21 00:17:32 +0200 | roboguy_ | (~roboguy_@cpe-69-76-235-109.kc.res.rr.com) |
| 2023-04-21 00:17:58 +0200 | roboguy_ | (~roboguy_@cpe-69-76-235-109.kc.res.rr.com) (Client Quit) |
| 2023-04-21 00:25:35 +0200 | waleee | (~waleee@2001:9b0:21c:4000:5bf9:6515:c030:57b7) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2023-04-21 00:25:48 +0200 | barcisz | (~barcisz@79.191.75.215.ipv4.supernova.orange.pl) (Quit: Connection closed) |
| 2023-04-21 00:27:22 +0200 | waleee | (~waleee@h-176-10-137-138.NA.cust.bahnhof.se) |
| 2023-04-21 00:31:28 +0200 | waleee | (~waleee@h-176-10-137-138.NA.cust.bahnhof.se) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 2023-04-21 00:33:13 +0200 | coot | (~coot@2a02:a310:e241:1b00:ec1a:e9df:79ac:66ba) (Quit: coot) |
| 2023-04-21 00:34:46 +0200 | [itchyjunk] | (~itchyjunk@user/itchyjunk/x-7353470) |
| 2023-04-21 00:56:28 +0200 | extor | (~extor@2001:41d0:1004:636::1) |
| 2023-04-21 01:04:00 +0200 | extor | (~extor@2001:41d0:1004:636::1) (Quit: ZNC 1.8.2+deb2build5 - https://znc.in) |
| 2023-04-21 01:04:10 +0200 | extor | (~extor@ns3018124.ip-149-202-82.eu) |
| 2023-04-21 01:19:17 +0200 | Me-me | (~Me-me@146.102.215.218.dyn.iprimus.net.au) |
| 2023-04-21 01:21:03 +0200 | eggplantade | (~Eggplanta@2600:1700:38c5:d800:95b6:69e0:a477:4ab1) |
| 2023-04-21 01:22:10 +0200 | nate1 | (~nate@98.45.169.16) |
| 2023-04-21 01:23:04 +0200 | Tuplanolla | (~Tuplanoll@91-159-68-236.elisa-laajakaista.fi) (Quit: Leaving.) |
| 2023-04-21 01:25:39 +0200 | eggplantade | (~Eggplanta@2600:1700:38c5:d800:95b6:69e0:a477:4ab1) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) |
| 2023-04-21 01:26:45 +0200 | nate1 | (~nate@98.45.169.16) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2023-04-21 01:26:50 +0200 | <sm> | an interview with SPJ today: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fBFsxmJEk7M |
| 2023-04-21 01:27:01 +0200 | jmorris | (uid537181@id-537181.uxbridge.irccloud.com) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) |
| 2023-04-21 01:28:11 +0200 | <c_wraith> | whoa, that's a long video |
| 2023-04-21 01:28:35 +0200 | pieguy128 | (~pieguy128@bras-base-mtrlpq5031w-grc-56-65-92-162-12.dsl.bell.ca) (Quit: ZNC 1.8.2 - https://znc.in) |
| 2023-04-21 01:29:37 +0200 | <hpc> | don't watch the 5 hour john carmack interview then :D |
| 2023-04-21 01:29:45 +0200 | xff0x | (~xff0x@2405:6580:b080:900:ccb0:7555:1a99:76be) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2023-04-21 01:30:04 +0200 | <c_wraith> | I didn't. (though that was mostly due to my dislike of the interviewer) |
| 2023-04-21 01:30:06 +0200 | systemhalted | (~systemhal@22.sub-174-244-22.myvzw.com) |
| 2023-04-21 01:31:42 +0200 | pieguy128 | (~pieguy128@bas1-montreal02-65-92-162-12.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 2023-04-21 01:31:44 +0200 | xff0x | (~xff0x@178.255.149.135) |
| 2023-04-21 01:31:58 +0200 | thegeekinside | (~thegeekin@189.180.119.50) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2023-04-21 01:32:18 +0200 | [itchyjunk] | (~itchyjunk@user/itchyjunk/x-7353470) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2023-04-21 01:33:35 +0200 | systemhalted | (~systemhal@22.sub-174-244-22.myvzw.com) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2023-04-21 01:34:47 +0200 | Me-me | (~Me-me@146.102.215.218.dyn.iprimus.net.au) (Changing host) |
| 2023-04-21 01:34:47 +0200 | Me-me | (~Me-me@user/me-me) |
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| 2023-04-21 01:51:25 +0200 | mauke | (~mauke@user/mauke) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2023-04-21 01:51:25 +0200 | mauke_ | mauke |
| 2023-04-21 01:53:13 +0200 | AWizzArd_ | (~code@gehrels.uberspace.de) |
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| 2023-04-21 02:04:53 +0200 | albet70 | (~xxx@2400:8902::f03c:92ff:fe60:98d8) |
| 2023-04-21 02:06:45 +0200 | Lord_of_Life | (~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2023-04-21 02:07:15 +0200 | Lord_of_Life | (~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915) |
| 2023-04-21 02:14:11 +0200 | NiceBird | (~NiceBird@185.133.111.196) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2023-04-21 02:21:39 +0200 | <hammond> | jackdk: https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/snDGzEnC/Strings.hs regarding this from yesterday, so you take the two functions separate and then have a wrapper function to handle them both. You don't call g inside of f. (I didn't look at it too closely yesterday since I was too tired) |
| 2023-04-21 02:22:59 +0200 | <jackdk> | hammond: Hello! Could you please repeat your initial question, because I don't remember exactly what you asked. |
| 2023-04-21 02:24:50 +0200 | <hammond> | so I have a function that goes from String->IO String and inside that function I'm calling another function that goes from String->Maybe String and I want to use that result to return it to the IO String. |
| 2023-04-21 02:25:16 +0200 | <hammond> | im just asking to see if that's the paradigm in haskell. |
| 2023-04-21 02:25:25 +0200 | chanceyan | (~chanceyan@user/chanceyan) |
| 2023-04-21 02:26:58 +0200 | <ski> | you could call `g' inside of `f', if you wanted to |
| 2023-04-21 02:27:45 +0200 | <hammond> | ok |
| 2023-04-21 02:28:11 +0200 | <ski> | (but then to show how that would look like, you'd need to show the implementation of `f' .. so `f' would (presumably) involve doing some `IO', possibly invoking some other action .. now, this is exactly what jackdk's code does, for his function(s) calling `f' and `g') |
| 2023-04-21 02:29:08 +0200 | <ski> | .. hard to show how `f' would call `g', without showing implementation of `f' (apart from calling `g', say) |
| 2023-04-21 02:29:22 +0200 | <hammond> | oh |
| 2023-04-21 02:29:31 +0200 | <hammond> | ok heh |
| 2023-04-21 02:32:02 +0200 | thegeekinside | (~thegeekin@189.180.119.50) |
| 2023-04-21 02:35:05 +0200 | oac | (~oac@50-93-248-155.fttp.usinternet.com) |
| 2023-04-21 02:35:36 +0200 | rburkholder | (~blurb@96.45.2.121) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2023-04-21 02:36:52 +0200 | oac | (~oac@50-93-248-155.fttp.usinternet.com) (Client Quit) |
| 2023-04-21 02:37:37 +0200 | foul_owl | (~kerry@71.212.137.212) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 2023-04-21 02:44:58 +0200 | werneta | (~werneta@70-142-214-115.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net) |
| 2023-04-21 02:46:01 +0200 | wroathe | (~wroathe@207-153-38-140.fttp.usinternet.com) |
| 2023-04-21 02:46:02 +0200 | wroathe | (~wroathe@207-153-38-140.fttp.usinternet.com) (Changing host) |
| 2023-04-21 02:46:02 +0200 | wroathe | (~wroathe@user/wroathe) |
| 2023-04-21 02:51:27 +0200 | Albina_Pavlovna | (~Albina_Pa@2603-7000-76f0-76e0-f900-6862-141c-1878.res6.spectrum.com) |
| 2023-04-21 02:54:39 +0200 | jargon | (~jargon@174-22-213-236.phnx.qwest.net) |
| 2023-04-21 03:00:01 +0200 | <Axman6> | hammond: what do you want to do if the String -> Maybe String retuns Nothing? |
| 2023-04-21 03:00:23 +0200 | azimut | (~azimut@gateway/tor-sasl/azimut) |
| 2023-04-21 03:00:24 +0200 | barcisz | (~barcisz@79.191.75.215.ipv4.supernova.orange.pl) |
| 2023-04-21 03:03:02 +0200 | <Axman6> | :t let strToIOStr :: String -> IO String; strToIOStr = undefined; strToMayStr :: String -> Maybe String; strToMayStr = undefined in maybe (pure "") strToIOStr . strToMayStr |
| 2023-04-21 03:03:03 +0200 | <lambdabot> | String -> IO [Char] |
| 2023-04-21 03:04:12 +0200 | <Axman6> | (should've read the code, that has the right types but does the wrong thing) |
| 2023-04-21 03:04:53 +0200 | <Axman6> | maybeFunction is probably what I'd ue |
| 2023-04-21 03:05:41 +0200 | barcisz | (~barcisz@79.191.75.215.ipv4.supernova.orange.pl) (Quit: Connection closed) |
| 2023-04-21 03:05:57 +0200 | barcisz | (~barcisz@79.191.75.215.ipv4.supernova.orange.pl) |
| 2023-04-21 03:07:16 +0200 | <hammond> | Axman6: prolly return an empty string like so "" |
| 2023-04-21 03:07:23 +0200 | <hammond> | I'm a beginner though |
| 2023-04-21 03:10:13 +0200 | <hammond> | so maybe in the first function he wrote where is says, Nothing -> pure str' -- from f, I can say Nothing -> pure "" |
| 2023-04-21 03:10:20 +0200 | <hammond> | idk lemmi see if it works |
| 2023-04-21 03:11:04 +0200 | barcisz | (~barcisz@79.191.75.215.ipv4.supernova.orange.pl) (Quit: Connection closed) |
| 2023-04-21 03:11:22 +0200 | <ski> | should work |
| 2023-04-21 03:11:59 +0200 | <hammond> | yes. |
| 2023-04-21 03:12:13 +0200 | <ski> | @type fromMaybe "" :: Maybe String -> String |
| 2023-04-21 03:12:14 +0200 | <lambdabot> | Maybe String -> String |
| 2023-04-21 03:15:51 +0200 | Albina_Pavlovna | (~Albina_Pa@2603-7000-76f0-76e0-f900-6862-141c-1878.res6.spectrum.com) (Quit: ZZZzzz…) |
| 2023-04-21 03:22:28 +0200 | gmg | (~user@user/gehmehgeh) |
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| 2023-04-21 03:42:36 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@86-86-29-250.fixed.kpn.net) |
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| 2023-04-21 03:48:58 +0200 | chanceyan | (~chanceyan@user/chanceyan) (Quit: Client closed) |
| 2023-04-21 03:59:39 +0200 | xff0x | (~xff0x@2405:6580:b080:900:ccb0:7555:1a99:76be) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2023-04-21 04:05:20 +0200 | td_ | (~td@i53870923.versanet.de) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 2023-04-21 04:06:58 +0200 | td_ | (~td@i53870924.versanet.de) |
| 2023-04-21 04:09:16 +0200 | jero98772 | (~jero98772@2800:484:1d84:9000::6) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2023-04-21 04:16:54 +0200 | epolanski | (uid312403@id-312403.helmsley.irccloud.com) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) |
| 2023-04-21 04:20:05 +0200 | wroathe | (~wroathe@user/wroathe) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2023-04-21 04:29:16 +0200 | eggplantade | (~Eggplanta@2600:1700:38c5:d800:95b6:69e0:a477:4ab1) |
| 2023-04-21 04:31:50 +0200 | jero98772 | (~jero98772@2800:484:1d84:9000::6) |
| 2023-04-21 04:33:42 +0200 | srk | (~sorki@user/srk) (Quit: ZNC 1.8.1 - https://znc.in) |
| 2023-04-21 04:34:02 +0200 | srk | (~sorki@user/srk) |
| 2023-04-21 04:35:21 +0200 | wroathe | (~wroathe@207-153-38-140.fttp.usinternet.com) |
| 2023-04-21 04:35:21 +0200 | wroathe | (~wroathe@207-153-38-140.fttp.usinternet.com) (Changing host) |
| 2023-04-21 04:35:21 +0200 | wroathe | (~wroathe@user/wroathe) |
| 2023-04-21 04:42:55 +0200 | wroathe | (~wroathe@user/wroathe) (Quit: Reconnecting) |
| 2023-04-21 04:43:08 +0200 | wroathe | (~wroathe@207-153-38-140.fttp.usinternet.com) |
| 2023-04-21 04:43:09 +0200 | wroathe | (~wroathe@207-153-38-140.fttp.usinternet.com) (Changing host) |
| 2023-04-21 04:43:09 +0200 | wroathe | (~wroathe@user/wroathe) |
| 2023-04-21 04:44:09 +0200 | pavonia | (~user@user/siracusa) (Quit: Bye!) |
| 2023-04-21 04:44:51 +0200 | xff0x | (~xff0x@125x103x176x34.ap125.ftth.ucom.ne.jp) |
| 2023-04-21 04:45:26 +0200 | nate1 | (~nate@98.45.169.16) |
| 2023-04-21 04:48:48 +0200 | wroathe | (~wroathe@user/wroathe) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
| 2023-04-21 04:53:24 +0200 | rburkholder | (~blurb@96.45.2.121) |
| 2023-04-21 05:00:29 +0200 | FinnElija | (~finn_elij@user/finn-elija/x-0085643) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
| 2023-04-21 05:02:35 +0200 | FinnElija | (~finn_elij@user/finn-elija/x-0085643) |
| 2023-04-21 05:03:05 +0200 | td_ | (~td@i53870924.versanet.de) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2023-04-21 05:04:47 +0200 | jero98772 | (~jero98772@2800:484:1d84:9000::6) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2023-04-21 05:05:02 +0200 | td_ | (~td@i53870936.versanet.de) |
| 2023-04-21 05:21:04 +0200 | L29Ah | (~L29Ah@wikipedia/L29Ah) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 2023-04-21 05:26:27 +0200 | Guest|19 | (~Guest|19@186.139.39.141) |
| 2023-04-21 05:26:53 +0200 | <Guest|19> | error 0x80092012 |
| 2023-04-21 05:27:05 +0200 | <Guest|19> | while installing |
| 2023-04-21 05:27:07 +0200 | <Guest|19> | help |
| 2023-04-21 05:27:48 +0200 | Guest|19 | (~Guest|19@186.139.39.141) (Client Quit) |
| 2023-04-21 05:29:12 +0200 | phma | (~phma@host-67-44-208-186.hnremote.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2023-04-21 05:30:11 +0200 | phma | (phma@2001:5b0:211f:e428:9fb9:b7cc:2fd:9e9) |
| 2023-04-21 05:34:40 +0200 | <maerwald[m]> | Guest|19: try disabling curl |
| 2023-04-21 05:35:03 +0200 | <maerwald[m]> | https://www.haskell.org/ghcup/guide/#certificate-authority-errors-curl |
| 2023-04-21 05:35:08 +0200 | <maerwald[m]> | The command at the bottom |
| 2023-04-21 05:48:25 +0200 | nate1 | (~nate@98.45.169.16) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2023-04-21 05:49:28 +0200 | [Leary] | (~Leary]@user/Leary/x-0910699) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2023-04-21 05:49:44 +0200 | [Leary] | (~Leary]@user/Leary/x-0910699) |
| 2023-04-21 06:08:06 +0200 | [Leary] | (~Leary]@user/Leary/x-0910699) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2023-04-21 06:08:21 +0200 | [Leary] | (~Leary]@user/Leary/x-0910699) |
| 2023-04-21 06:08:31 +0200 | euandreh | (~Thunderbi@189.6.18.7) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2023-04-21 06:09:16 +0200 | mbuf | (~Shakthi@49.207.178.186) |
| 2023-04-21 06:11:35 +0200 | azimut | (~azimut@gateway/tor-sasl/azimut) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
| 2023-04-21 06:12:20 +0200 | pharonix71 | (~pharonix7@user/pharonix71) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2023-04-21 06:12:34 +0200 | azimut | (~azimut@gateway/tor-sasl/azimut) |
| 2023-04-21 06:12:51 +0200 | pharonix71 | (~pharonix7@user/pharonix71) |
| 2023-04-21 06:17:47 +0200 | opticblast | (~Thunderbi@172.58.83.143) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2023-04-21 06:42:04 +0200 | monochrom | (trebla@216.138.220.146) (Quit: NO CARRIER) |
| 2023-04-21 06:43:31 +0200 | michalz | (~michalz@185.246.207.203) |
| 2023-04-21 06:49:23 +0200 | segfaultfizzbuzz | (~segfaultf@23-93-74-212.fiber.dynamic.sonic.net) |
| 2023-04-21 06:50:39 +0200 | <segfaultfizzbuzz> | so i am realizing that i am having a hard time conceptualizing currying,... that is to say when you look at myfunc :: a -> b -> c -> d -> e -> f ... how do you conceptualize that,... |
| 2023-04-21 06:51:13 +0200 | <segfaultfizzbuzz> | in most languages/noncurried languages i guess all functions look like foofunc :: a -> z |
| 2023-04-21 06:52:12 +0200 | <segfaultfizzbuzz> | myfunc can mean many different things depending on which arguments were provided... |
| 2023-04-21 06:54:01 +0200 | <jackdk> | Yes. This is especially instructive when you look at the type for e.g., `map :: (a -> b) -> ([a] -> [b])` could be seen as lifting a function on elements to a function on lists |
| 2023-04-21 06:54:45 +0200 | <segfaultfizzbuzz> | well, that one is easy to understand because it is a -> z at the top level |
| 2023-04-21 06:55:02 +0200 | <jackdk> | huh? All functions in Haskell take one argument |
| 2023-04-21 06:56:07 +0200 | <segfaultfizzbuzz> | one argument? what is a -> b -> c -> d -> e -> f then ? |
| 2023-04-21 06:56:30 +0200 | <jackdk> | a function that takes an `a` and returns a `b -> c -> d -> e -> f -> ...` |
| 2023-04-21 06:57:00 +0200 | <segfaultfizzbuzz> | so the evaluation must be in order from start to end? |
| 2023-04-21 06:58:04 +0200 | monochrom | (trebla@216.138.220.146) |
| 2023-04-21 06:58:19 +0200 | <jackdk> | no |
| 2023-04-21 06:59:36 +0200 | <jackdk> | The argument passed in won't get forced until it's used. Consider: |
| 2023-04-21 06:59:41 +0200 | <jackdk> | > (\a b -> b) (error "boom") 3 |
| 2023-04-21 06:59:42 +0200 | <lambdabot> | 3 |
| 2023-04-21 07:01:55 +0200 | <segfaultfizzbuzz> | what lol |
| 2023-04-21 07:02:38 +0200 | <jwiegley> | lazy evaluation means that arguments are evaluated when they are needed, rather than prior to the "call" |
| 2023-04-21 07:05:16 +0200 | <segfaultfizzbuzz> | right |
| 2023-04-21 07:05:51 +0200 | <segfaultfizzbuzz> | but,... somehow the evaluation order is unimportant...? |
| 2023-04-21 07:06:01 +0200 | <segfaultfizzbuzz> | i guess you can do this due to purity? |
| 2023-04-21 07:06:06 +0200 | <jwiegley> | there is no "evaluation order" |
| 2023-04-21 07:06:13 +0200 | <jwiegley> | rather, there's a directed graph of value dependencies |
| 2023-04-21 07:06:41 +0200 | <jwiegley> | since the return value of the function is the second argument, then the second argument must be evaluated if the result of the function is evaluated |
| 2023-04-21 07:07:01 +0200 | <segfaultfizzbuzz> | well for a -> b -> c -> d -> e -> f, something might set the value of c,... i suppose that would produce a -> b -> d -> e -> f? |
| 2023-04-21 07:07:01 +0200 | <jwiegley> | of course, I use the term "second argument" loosely |
| 2023-04-21 07:07:06 +0200 | dodecahedron | (~dodecahed@user/dodecahedron) |
| 2023-04-21 07:07:15 +0200 | <jwiegley> | there is no "setting the value of c" either |
| 2023-04-21 07:07:28 +0200 | <jwiegley> | variables are in the mathematical sense: names of values |
| 2023-04-21 07:07:36 +0200 | <jwiegley> | they aren't memory cells, or locations that can be "changed" |
| 2023-04-21 07:07:37 +0200 | <segfaultfizzbuzz> | lazy or not, the evaluation has to occur some time... no? |
| 2023-04-21 07:07:37 +0200 | dodecahedron | (~dodecahed@user/dodecahedron) () |
| 2023-04-21 07:07:41 +0200 | <jwiegley> | all a function can do is produce a result |
| 2023-04-21 07:07:50 +0200 | <jwiegley> | the evaluation occurs when the result of the function is demanded |
| 2023-04-21 07:08:05 +0200 | <jwiegley> | in the case of lambdabot above, the value was needed by the printing function |
| 2023-04-21 07:08:28 +0200 | takuan | (~takuan@178-116-218-225.access.telenet.be) |
| 2023-04-21 07:10:20 +0200 | takuan | (~takuan@178-116-218-225.access.telenet.be) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2023-04-21 07:10:38 +0200 | takuan | (~takuan@178-116-218-225.access.telenet.be) |
| 2023-04-21 07:12:16 +0200 | trev | (~trev@user/trev) |
| 2023-04-21 07:12:23 +0200 | <segfaultfizzbuzz> | well then intead of "set the value of c" perhaps i should say that a function somewhere else might denote myfunc with a specific const value for c (or to a value they know something about) |
| 2023-04-21 07:13:00 +0200 | <segfaultfizzbuzz> | myfunc2 w x y z = myfunc w x 5 y z |
| 2023-04-21 07:13:28 +0200 | <jwiegley> | sure |
| 2023-04-21 07:13:50 +0200 | <segfaultfizzbuzz> | but i am thinking that purity is the only reason this is meaningful |
| 2023-04-21 07:15:14 +0200 | <jwiegley> | by purity, do you mean that these are really mathematical functions? i.e., outputs are wholly derived from inputs? |
| 2023-04-21 07:17:33 +0200 | <jade[m]> | I suppose so - if there was global state, then lazy evaluation would simply break |
| 2023-04-21 07:18:59 +0200 | <segfaultfizzbuzz> | by purity i mean that myfunc is a pure function of its uh, arguments or whatever a thru f are referred to as |
| 2023-04-21 07:19:18 +0200 | <segfaultfizzbuzz> | and so because it is pure you are guaranteed to be able to reorder things however you please |
| 2023-04-21 07:19:30 +0200 | <segfaultfizzbuzz> | but if not pure, the reordering would cause a mess |
| 2023-04-21 07:19:40 +0200 | <jwiegley> | the only thing that really makes life tricky for us as Haskellers is the presence of "undefined" or "error". Without that, then it wouldn't matter what the evaluation strategy was, the result of the function would always be the same for a given set of inputs |
| 2023-04-21 07:19:49 +0200 | <jade[m]> | I don't quite understand |
| 2023-04-21 07:20:19 +0200 | <segfaultfizzbuzz> | well undefined and error are a huge fraction of programming |
| 2023-04-21 07:20:56 +0200 | <jade[m]> | jwiegley: something something bottom, something something inhabitant of every type ;) |
| 2023-04-21 07:21:02 +0200 | <jwiegley> | yep |
| 2023-04-21 07:21:04 +0200 | oddline | (~oddline@user/oddline) |
| 2023-04-21 07:21:09 +0200 | <segfaultfizzbuzz> | wha |
| 2023-04-21 07:21:17 +0200 | <jwiegley> | which means undefined || True != True || undefined |
| 2023-04-21 07:22:28 +0200 | <jade[m]> | because || is lazy in its second argument iirc |
| 2023-04-21 07:22:50 +0200 | <jwiegley> | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reduction_strategy |
| 2023-04-21 07:23:30 +0200 | bgs | (~bgs@212-85-160-171.dynamic.telemach.net) |
| 2023-04-21 07:23:31 +0200 | <oddline> | if I have a new type of Array (say, newtype MyA i a = MyA (Array i a)), is there a way to derive IArray for it? |
| 2023-04-21 07:23:59 +0200 | <jwiegley> | oddline: have you tried GeneralizedNewtypeDeriving? |
| 2023-04-21 07:24:07 +0200 | <jade[m]> | GeneralizedNewTypeDeriving |
| 2023-04-21 07:24:18 +0200 | <jade[m]> | oh you beat me to it |
| 2023-04-21 07:24:31 +0200 | <oddline> | yes, I have, but I can't quite find the correct invocation |
| 2023-04-21 07:24:34 +0200 | <jade[m]> | and I also misspelled it |
| 2023-04-21 07:26:24 +0200 | <oddline> | because IArray is a MultiParamTypeClass |
| 2023-04-21 07:27:14 +0200 | <jade[m]> | The docs mention that you should also enable that extension then |
| 2023-04-21 07:27:33 +0200 | jade[m] | uploaded an image: (188KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/matrix.org/MQMdUcUDrgEUBPGZIKbEOHoO/d2e5a53a-09d… > |
| 2023-04-21 07:27:33 +0200 | <oddline> | I have it enabled, but what's the syntax to derive it? |
| 2023-04-21 07:29:29 +0200 | <jwiegley> | you can pass arguments in the deriving statement |
| 2023-04-21 07:29:29 +0200 | <jade[m]> | https://stackoverflow.com/questions/33245788/using-xgeneralizednewtypederiving-with-xmultiparamtyp… |
| 2023-04-21 07:29:35 +0200 | <jwiegley> | deriving (IArray Foo) |
| 2023-04-21 07:30:09 +0200 | <oddline> | ah, but the answer of that one explains that you can only do this with the last parameter of a multi-param type class |
| 2023-04-21 07:30:19 +0200 | <oddline> | the newtype here is of Array, which would be the first parameter |
| 2023-04-21 07:30:59 +0200 | <oddline> | that SO answer seems to think that it can't be done, I just thought I'd check in case there's some way to do it with StandaloneDeriving or DerivingVia or some such |
| 2023-04-21 07:31:21 +0200 | <jade[m]> | you can do something like `type Foo a b = Bar b a => Baz b a` I guess? |
| 2023-04-21 07:31:40 +0200 | <jade[m]> | unless I'm missing something |
| 2023-04-21 07:31:43 +0200 | <jade[m]> | I'm not good with types yet |
| 2023-04-21 07:32:07 +0200 | <oddline> | I don't think changing the order of the type's arguments is helpful here |
| 2023-04-21 07:32:21 +0200 | <oddline> | it's the order of the typeclass's parameters that is preventing this |
| 2023-04-21 07:32:27 +0200 | segfaultfizzbuzz | (~segfaultf@23-93-74-212.fiber.dynamic.sonic.net) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2023-04-21 07:32:33 +0200 | <jade[m]> | hm |
| 2023-04-21 07:36:23 +0200 | <oddline> | the one thing that I think could work is to enable DerivingVia, FlexibleInstances, StandaloneDeriving, and do this: |
| 2023-04-21 07:36:39 +0200 | <oddline> | deriving via (IArray Array e) instance IArray MyA e |
| 2023-04-21 07:37:46 +0200 | <oddline> | wait, no, that syntax is wrong |
| 2023-04-21 07:38:43 +0200 | zer0bitz | (~zer0bitz@2001:2003:f443:d600:28e6:b5d5:3c01:ef5f) |
| 2023-04-21 07:40:01 +0200 | zer0bitz_ | (~zer0bitz@2001:2003:f443:d600:4413:c8de:8d77:b5ff) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2023-04-21 07:41:29 +0200 | <[Leary]> | oddline: Did you try `newtype MyA i a = MyA (Array i a) deriving IArray`? That should just work. |
| 2023-04-21 07:48:17 +0200 | MatthiasPG | (~MatthiasP@202.133.199.92) |
| 2023-04-21 07:49:10 +0200 | <MatthiasPG> | Hi! Do we have a data structure that supports 'cons', 'uncons' and 'append' in amortised O(1)? |
| 2023-04-21 07:49:19 +0200 | segfaultfizzbuzz | (~segfaultf@23-93-74-212.fiber.dynamic.sonic.net) |
| 2023-04-21 07:49:36 +0200 | <MatthiasPG> | (By append, I mean concatenating two existing structures.) |
| 2023-04-21 07:50:22 +0200 | <segfaultfizzbuzz> | jwiegley: i assume you mean exceptions/asynchronous exceptions by "error" and the like? |
| 2023-04-21 07:50:34 +0200 | <segfaultfizzbuzz> | what drives the need for exceptions in a language |
| 2023-04-21 07:52:01 +0200 | <jwiegley> | segfaultfizzbuzz: no, I just meant bottom: that which has no meaning |
| 2023-04-21 07:57:13 +0200 | <oddline> | [Leary]: yes, I tried it: error: ‘IArray’ is not a unary constraint, as expected by a deriving clause |
| 2023-04-21 07:57:29 +0200 | <mauke> | MatthiasPG: closest thing I know of is Seq, whose append is O(log(min(n1, n2))) |
| 2023-04-21 07:59:56 +0200 | <oddline> | it seems neither GeneralisedNewtypeDeriving nor DerivingVia, even with every other appropriate extension, can't derive where the type you're deriving for isn't the last parameter of a MultiParamTypeClass |
| 2023-04-21 07:59:56 +0200 | <MatthiasPG> | Thanks, I already know that one. But I think I need O(1) to achieve my desired asymptotic runtime. |
| 2023-04-21 08:02:06 +0200 | <MatthiasPG> | http://www.math.tau.ac.il/~haimk/adv-ds-2000/jacm-final.pdf describes a datastructure that fits the bill, but I'm not sure there's an implementation available. (Circular linked lists would also work, but only in an imperative setting.) |
| 2023-04-21 08:03:33 +0200 | finnekit | (~finnekit@fsf/member/finnekit) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2023-04-21 08:03:39 +0200 | bramhaag | (~bramhaag@134.195.121.39) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
| 2023-04-21 08:03:46 +0200 | <segfaultfizzbuzz> | ok gtg bye |
| 2023-04-21 08:04:06 +0200 | Wstfgl0_ | (~Me-me@146.102.215.218.dyn.iprimus.net.au) |
| 2023-04-21 08:06:34 +0200 | finnekit | (~finnekit@fsf/member/finnekit) |
| 2023-04-21 08:06:34 +0200 | finnekit | (~finnekit@fsf/member/finnekit) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2023-04-21 08:06:56 +0200 | Me-me | (~Me-me@user/me-me) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 2023-04-21 08:07:04 +0200 | Wstfgl0_ | Me-me |
| 2023-04-21 08:07:04 +0200 | finnekit | (~finnekit@fsf/member/finnekit) |
| 2023-04-21 08:08:06 +0200 | segfaultfizzbuzz | (~segfaultf@23-93-74-212.fiber.dynamic.sonic.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2023-04-21 08:09:17 +0200 | chiselfuse | (~chiselfus@user/chiselfuse) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2023-04-21 08:10:14 +0200 | anime-ps1cho | (~srijan-pa@122.171.16.195) |
| 2023-04-21 08:13:33 +0200 | <MatthiasPG> | https://hackage.haskell.org/package/monoid-subclasses-1.2.3/docs/Data-Monoid-Instances-Concat.html looks like it might do the trick. They promise amortised constant time for the relevant operations when wrapping any monoid. |
| 2023-04-21 08:14:49 +0200 | <jackdk> | MatthiasPG: Finger trees? (Data.Sequence from containers) |
| 2023-04-21 08:15:07 +0200 | bramhaag | (~bramhaag@134.195.121.39) |
| 2023-04-21 08:15:57 +0200 | <jackdk> | oh, that was already mentinoed |
| 2023-04-21 08:19:55 +0200 | chiselfuse | (~chiselfus@user/chiselfuse) |
| 2023-04-21 08:24:02 +0200 | werneta | (~werneta@70-142-214-115.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 2023-04-21 08:24:09 +0200 | chanceyan | (~chanceyan@user/chanceyan) |
| 2023-04-21 08:25:45 +0200 | werneta | (~werneta@70-142-214-115.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net) |
| 2023-04-21 08:26:10 +0200 | bramhaag | (~bramhaag@134.195.121.39) (Quit: Ping timeout (120 seconds)) |
| 2023-04-21 08:27:03 +0200 | bramhaag | (~bramhaag@134.195.121.39) |
| 2023-04-21 08:28:56 +0200 | eggplantade | (~Eggplanta@2600:1700:38c5:d800:95b6:69e0:a477:4ab1) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2023-04-21 08:31:05 +0200 | <MatthiasPG> | jackdk, they would be great in practice, but I'm interested in theory, ie in asymptotic O(.) runtime. |
| 2023-04-21 08:31:45 +0200 | <MatthiasPG> | I'm trying to write up an algorithm that simulates min-heaps in linear time. See eg https://cstheory.stackexchange.com/questions/41251/simulate-a-heap-in-linear-time |
| 2023-04-21 08:32:02 +0200 | <MatthiasPG> | (Or also https://cs.stackexchange.com/questions/56643/is-this-special-case-of-a-scheduling-problem-solvable… ) |
| 2023-04-21 08:32:40 +0200 | <MatthiasPG> | Simulate in the sense that you only see the result at the end of a sequence of operations, but not what happens for each individual step. |
| 2023-04-21 08:35:30 +0200 | slack1256 | (~slack1256@186.11.20.9) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2023-04-21 08:37:33 +0200 | chanceyan | (~chanceyan@user/chanceyan) (Quit: chanceyan) |
| 2023-04-21 08:39:40 +0200 | son0p | (~ff@181.136.122.143) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 2023-04-21 08:45:42 +0200 | lortabac | (~lortabac@2a01:e0a:541:b8f0:bfaf:4519:163b:bb1b) |
| 2023-04-21 08:47:50 +0200 | mncheck | (~mncheck@193.224.205.254) |
| 2023-04-21 08:50:47 +0200 | delYsid | (~user@user/delYsid) |
| 2023-04-21 08:57:32 +0200 | coot | (~coot@2a02:a310:e241:1b00:ec1a:e9df:79ac:66ba) |
| 2023-04-21 09:00:19 +0200 | <delYsid> | I sometimes wonder if upper-bounds actually do more harm then good. |
| 2023-04-21 09:00:52 +0200 | mmhat | (~mmh@p200300f1c7132c5cee086bfffe095315.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 2023-04-21 09:00:59 +0200 | mmhat | (~mmh@p200300f1c7132c5cee086bfffe095315.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Client Quit) |
| 2023-04-21 09:03:56 +0200 | CiaoSen | (~Jura@p200300c9573131002a3a4dfffe84dbd5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 2023-04-21 09:04:24 +0200 | <jackdk> | I'm a fan |
| 2023-04-21 09:07:07 +0200 | anime-ps1cho | (~srijan-pa@122.171.16.195) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) |
| 2023-04-21 09:09:38 +0200 | <geekosaur> | you have to fix more of the ecosystem when a text 2.0 or aeson 2.0 breaks everything |
| 2023-04-21 09:10:05 +0200 | <geekosaur> | but this argument has been going on for years and nobody is going to change anyone else's mind at this point |
| 2023-04-21 09:10:41 +0200 | acidjnk | (~acidjnk@p200300d6e715c424892a24693f8d0a15.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 2023-04-21 09:27:10 +0200 | ft | (~ft@p4fc2a88b.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Quit: leaving) |
| 2023-04-21 09:29:27 +0200 | eggplantade | (~Eggplanta@2600:1700:38c5:d800:95b6:69e0:a477:4ab1) |
| 2023-04-21 09:29:54 +0200 | tzh | (~tzh@c-24-21-73-154.hsd1.or.comcast.net) (Quit: zzz) |
| 2023-04-21 09:30:41 +0200 | anime-ps1cho | (~srijan-pa@203.192.247.242) |
| 2023-04-21 09:32:56 +0200 | <ujjwalgupta[m]> | Hey,... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/libera.chat/454df54912e950e437a36907ac01c355280f…>) |
| 2023-04-21 09:33:40 +0200 | <ujjwalgupta[m]> | * Hey,... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/libera.chat/129e38ed390910f2b8a55c800202107d85eb…>) |
| 2023-04-21 09:33:47 +0200 | eggplantade | (~Eggplanta@2600:1700:38c5:d800:95b6:69e0:a477:4ab1) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 2023-04-21 09:34:28 +0200 | <ujjwalgupta[m]> | * Hey,... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/libera.chat/98a4c9d85ca19288e23a8dca97ff9eddc59d…>) |
| 2023-04-21 09:35:31 +0200 | <ujjwalgupta[m]> | * Hey,... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/libera.chat/af83c4797d7137fb067e72ffbca2b537ae31…>) |
| 2023-04-21 09:35:40 +0200 | <ujjwalgupta[m]> | * Hey,... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/libera.chat/97688044d707d2f47b54e79225edaee64a21…>) |
| 2023-04-21 09:36:44 +0200 | <ujjwalgupta[m]> | * Hey,... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/libera.chat/2fef347557ed14d1896fefca634fb9bca8d7…>) |
| 2023-04-21 09:36:50 +0200 | nschoe | (~q@141.101.51.197) |
| 2023-04-21 09:39:38 +0200 | MatthiasPG | (~MatthiasP@202.133.199.92) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2023-04-21 09:47:00 +0200 | <geekosaur> | please don't do matrix edits in an IRC channel. |
| 2023-04-21 09:47:46 +0200 | <geekosaur> | (https://imgur.com/I918nG1.png) |
| 2023-04-21 09:56:56 +0200 | Square2 | (~Square4@user/square) |
| 2023-04-21 10:06:10 +0200 | machinedgod | (~machinedg@d198-53-218-113.abhsia.telus.net) |
| 2023-04-21 10:09:54 +0200 | _ht | (~Thunderbi@28-52-174-82.ftth.glasoperator.nl) |
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| 2023-04-21 10:16:54 +0200 | coot | (~coot@2a02:a310:e241:1b00:ec1a:e9df:79ac:66ba) (Quit: coot) |
| 2023-04-21 10:17:22 +0200 | cfricke | (~cfricke@user/cfricke) |
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| 2023-04-21 10:19:16 +0200 | anime-ps1cho | (~srijan-pa@203.192.247.242) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) |
| 2023-04-21 10:22:44 +0200 | Sgeo | (~Sgeo@user/sgeo) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2023-04-21 10:25:18 +0200 | barcisz | (~barcisz@79.191.75.215.ipv4.supernova.orange.pl) |
| 2023-04-21 10:28:05 +0200 | jil | (~user@vps-15050500.vps.ovh.net) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2023-04-21 10:30:17 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@c-001-001-006.client.esciencecenter.eduvpn.nl) |
| 2023-04-21 10:31:33 +0200 | MajorBiscuit | (~MajorBisc@145.94.168.115) |
| 2023-04-21 10:31:42 +0200 | Square2 | (~Square4@user/square) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
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| 2023-04-21 10:42:04 +0200 | L29Ah | (~L29Ah@wikipedia/L29Ah) |
| 2023-04-21 10:42:19 +0200 | nschoe | (~q@141.101.51.197) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 2023-04-21 10:51:27 +0200 | son0p | (~ff@181.136.122.143) |
| 2023-04-21 10:53:41 +0200 | nschoe | (~q@141.101.51.197) |
| 2023-04-21 10:54:17 +0200 | vglfr | (~vglfr@46.96.172.186) |
| 2023-04-21 11:00:03 +0200 | nicm[m] | (~nicmollel@2001:470:69fc:105::1:feeb) (Quit: You have been kicked for being idle) |
| 2023-04-21 11:01:16 +0200 | use-value1 | (~Thunderbi@2a00:23c6:8a03:2f01:21d4:e288:9164:f829) |
| 2023-04-21 11:02:55 +0200 | use-value | (~Thunderbi@2a00:23c6:8a03:2f01:21d4:e288:9164:f829) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2023-04-21 11:02:55 +0200 | use-value1 | use-value |
| 2023-04-21 11:07:52 +0200 | anime-psycho | (~srijan-pa@203.192.247.242) |
| 2023-04-21 11:09:58 +0200 | mc47 | (~mc47@xmonad/TheMC47) |
| 2023-04-21 11:36:17 +0200 | stefan-_ | (~cri@42dots.de) (Quit: ZNC 1.8.2+deb2build5 - https://znc.in) |
| 2023-04-21 11:36:34 +0200 | stefan-_ | (~cri@42dots.de) |
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| 2023-04-21 11:37:18 +0200 | ubert1 | (~Thunderbi@2a02:8109:abc0:6434:cc0d:e677:3758:c057) |
| 2023-04-21 11:39:44 +0200 | econo | (uid147250@user/econo) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) |
| 2023-04-21 11:45:49 +0200 | chanceyan | (~chanceyan@user/chanceyan) (Quit: Client closed) |
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| 2023-04-21 11:49:00 +0200 | euandreh | (~Thunderbi@189.6.18.7) |
| 2023-04-21 11:50:46 +0200 | Techcable | (~Techcable@user/Techcable) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
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| 2023-04-21 11:55:00 +0200 | euandreh | (~Thunderbi@189.6.18.7) |
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| 2023-04-21 12:02:33 +0200 | delYsid | (~user@user/delYsid) (ERC 5.4.1 (IRC client for GNU Emacs 30.0.50)) |
| 2023-04-21 12:03:59 +0200 | euandreh | (~Thunderbi@189.6.18.7) (Quit: euandreh) |
| 2023-04-21 12:05:27 +0200 | pavonia | (~user@user/siracusa) |
| 2023-04-21 12:06:05 +0200 | vglfr | (~vglfr@46.96.172.186) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
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| 2023-04-21 12:22:31 +0200 | barcisz | (~barcisz@79.191.75.215.ipv4.supernova.orange.pl) (Quit: Connection closed) |
| 2023-04-21 12:22:53 +0200 | barcisz | (~barcisz@79.191.75.215.ipv4.supernova.orange.pl) |
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| 2023-04-21 12:25:02 +0200 | elkcl | (~elkcl@broadband-37-110-27-252.ip.moscow.rt.ru) |
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| 2023-04-21 12:34:49 +0200 | juri_ | (~juri@84-19-175-179.pool.ovpn.com) |
| 2023-04-21 12:35:19 +0200 | CiaoSen | (~Jura@p200300c9573131002a3a4dfffe84dbd5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2023-04-21 12:35:24 +0200 | ub | (~Thunderbi@p200300ecdf114f6db3d7a9799dbefffd.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 2023-04-21 12:36:42 +0200 | raehik | (~raehik@cpc95906-rdng25-2-0-cust156.15-3.cable.virginm.net) |
| 2023-04-21 12:36:45 +0200 | ubert | (~Thunderbi@p548c84d6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2023-04-21 12:36:45 +0200 | ub | ubert |
| 2023-04-21 12:39:50 +0200 | <carbolymer> | ujjwalgupta[m]: your message isn't readable |
| 2023-04-21 12:48:32 +0200 | acidjnk | (~acidjnk@p200300d6e715c424892a24693f8d0a15.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 2023-04-21 12:51:58 +0200 | vglfr | (~vglfr@46.96.172.186) |
| 2023-04-21 12:54:05 +0200 | gnalzo | (~gnalzo@2a01:e0a:498:fd50:fcc6:bb5d:489a:ce8c) |
| 2023-04-21 13:02:14 +0200 | polux1 | (~polux@51-15-169-172.rev.poneytelecom.eu) |
| 2023-04-21 13:03:38 +0200 | hugo | (znc@verdigris.lysator.liu.se) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
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| 2023-04-21 13:04:01 +0200 | polux | (~polux@51-15-169-172.rev.poneytelecom.eu) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2023-04-21 13:04:01 +0200 | polux1 | polux |
| 2023-04-21 13:04:07 +0200 | Rembane | (~Rembane@li346-36.members.linode.com) |
| 2023-04-21 13:04:20 +0200 | kraftwerk28 | (~kraftwerk@178.62.210.83) |
| 2023-04-21 13:04:21 +0200 | jle` | (~jle`@cpe-23-240-75-236.socal.res.rr.com) |
| 2023-04-21 13:05:06 +0200 | dumptruckman | (~dumptruck@143-42-239-71.ip.linodeusercontent.com) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2023-04-21 13:05:16 +0200 | dumptruckman | (~dumptruck@143-42-239-71.ip.linodeusercontent.com) |
| 2023-04-21 13:05:59 +0200 | hugo | (znc@verdigris.lysator.liu.se) |
| 2023-04-21 13:14:51 +0200 | msavoritias | (cb716af6b3@irc.cheogram.com) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 2023-04-21 13:16:05 +0200 | oddline | (~oddline@user/oddline) |
| 2023-04-21 13:20:26 +0200 | <dminuoso> | geekosaur: Im not sure whether they can be blamed. |
| 2023-04-21 13:20:49 +0200 | <dminuoso> | I see this as a matrix issue, not a user issue. |
| 2023-04-21 13:20:53 +0200 | <dminuoso> | *matrix bridge |
| 2023-04-21 13:21:48 +0200 | msavoritias | (cb716af6b3@irc.cheogram.com) |
| 2023-04-21 13:26:18 +0200 | raehik | (~raehik@cpc95906-rdng25-2-0-cust156.15-3.cable.virginm.net) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
| 2023-04-21 13:31:03 +0200 | vglfr | (~vglfr@46.96.172.186) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) |
| 2023-04-21 13:33:36 +0200 | eggplantade | (~Eggplanta@104-55-37-220.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) |
| 2023-04-21 13:37:44 +0200 | eggplantade | (~Eggplanta@104-55-37-220.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2023-04-21 13:37:50 +0200 | anime-psycho | (~srijan-pa@203.192.247.242) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) |
| 2023-04-21 13:40:05 +0200 | <oddline> | hmm - now I'm trying to use GeneralisedNewtypeDeriving with IArray the other way round, the way that afaik _should_ work, and it's still not working? |
| 2023-04-21 13:40:52 +0200 | <oddline> | here's a little example https://dpaste.org/TTQSZ and here's what it complains of https://dpaste.org/LsVMr |
| 2023-04-21 13:41:50 +0200 | <oddline> | the same thing happens whether I use GeneralisedNewtypeDeriving or DerivingVia, and whether or not I use a standalone deriving instance |
| 2023-04-21 13:42:10 +0200 | <oddline> | I've checked and Word8 and MyByte are definitely coercible (as they should be) |
| 2023-04-21 13:42:33 +0200 | <dminuoso> | oddline: Are their constructors in scope? |
| 2023-04-21 13:42:43 +0200 | <dminuoso> | Or mmm |
| 2023-04-21 13:42:56 +0200 | <dminuoso> | You would get a different error if that was an issue |
| 2023-04-21 13:43:54 +0200 | <dminuoso> | oddline: I wonder whether this is a GHC bug maybe |
| 2023-04-21 13:44:16 +0200 | <dminuoso> | The Coercible constraint is quite magical, and maybe its just not visible inside the GND coercion |
| 2023-04-21 13:44:26 +0200 | <oddline> | I didn't want to presume it was, as this is not space I'm super familiar with, but it certainly smells like it could be |
| 2023-04-21 13:44:33 +0200 | <oddline> | behaves the same in 9.2 and 9.6 fwiw |
| 2023-04-21 13:44:38 +0200 | <dminuoso> | oddline: Run it in #ghc perhaps first |
| 2023-04-21 13:44:54 +0200 | <dminuoso> | Though mmm |
| 2023-04-21 13:45:13 +0200 | <dminuoso> | Yeah this looks very strange |
| 2023-04-21 13:45:29 +0200 | <dminuoso> | It's either a bad diagnostic or bad behavior. Either way it's a GHC bug. |
| 2023-04-21 13:46:16 +0200 | <dminuoso> | oddline: If you added `import GHC.Word` will it compile then? |
| 2023-04-21 13:46:36 +0200 | <dminuoso> | (Idea is to just bring the constructor of Word8 into scope) |
| 2023-04-21 13:46:51 +0200 | <oddline> | no difference |
| 2023-04-21 13:48:42 +0200 | euandreh | (~Thunderbi@189.6.18.7) |
| 2023-04-21 13:50:24 +0200 | raehik | (~raehik@cpc95906-rdng25-2-0-cust156.15-3.cable.virginm.net) |
| 2023-04-21 13:51:35 +0200 | euandreh | (~Thunderbi@189.6.18.7) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2023-04-21 13:53:37 +0200 | nschoe | (~q@141.101.51.197) |
| 2023-04-21 13:54:02 +0200 | gurkenglas | (~gurkengla@dynamic-046-114-177-200.46.114.pool.telefonica.de) |
| 2023-04-21 13:54:14 +0200 | euandreh | (~Thunderbi@189.6.18.7) |
| 2023-04-21 14:02:16 +0200 | xff0x | (~xff0x@2405:6580:b080:900:2633:8ce2:126b:e828) |
| 2023-04-21 14:04:04 +0200 | use-value | (~Thunderbi@2a00:23c6:8a03:2f01:21d4:e288:9164:f829) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2023-04-21 14:04:23 +0200 | use-value | (~Thunderbi@2a00:23c6:8a03:2f01:21d4:e288:9164:f829) |
| 2023-04-21 14:04:51 +0200 | raehik | (~raehik@cpc95906-rdng25-2-0-cust156.15-3.cable.virginm.net) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) |
| 2023-04-21 14:13:34 +0200 | raehik | (~raehik@cpc95906-rdng25-2-0-cust156.15-3.cable.virginm.net) |
| 2023-04-21 14:17:33 +0200 | barcisz | (~barcisz@79.191.75.215.ipv4.supernova.orange.pl) (Quit: Connection closed) |
| 2023-04-21 14:20:52 +0200 | troydm | (~troydm@user/troydm) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2023-04-21 14:21:25 +0200 | cfricke | (~cfricke@user/cfricke) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2023-04-21 14:22:20 +0200 | barcisz | (~barcisz@79.191.75.215.ipv4.supernova.orange.pl) |
| 2023-04-21 14:24:11 +0200 | <[Leary]> | oddline, dminuoso: `type role UArray nominal nominal`. You can't coerce underneath it, so you can't coerce the `Word8`. |
| 2023-04-21 14:24:29 +0200 | <oddline> | ah, poo. |
| 2023-04-21 14:24:42 +0200 | <oddline> | thanks; shame I bothered #ghc |
| 2023-04-21 14:25:26 +0200 | <oddline> | the explicit instance is going to be rather nasty to write out, too (assuming it's even possible? I think it is...) |
| 2023-04-21 14:27:13 +0200 | kenran | (~user@user/kenran) |
| 2023-04-21 14:27:58 +0200 | raehik | (~raehik@cpc95906-rdng25-2-0-cust156.15-3.cable.virginm.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
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| 2023-04-21 14:45:54 +0200 | barcisz | (~barcisz@79.191.75.215.ipv4.supernova.orange.pl) (Quit: Connection closed) |
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| 2023-04-21 15:12:23 +0200 | ddellacosta | (~ddellacos@143.244.47.84) (Quit: WeeChat 3.8) |
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| 2023-04-21 15:18:59 +0200 | segfaultfizzbuzz | (~segfaultf@23-93-74-212.fiber.dynamic.sonic.net) |
| 2023-04-21 15:19:31 +0200 | hayden_ | (~hayden@158.123.160.43) |
| 2023-04-21 15:19:31 +0200 | nehsou^ | (~nehsou@c-76-105-96-13.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2023-04-21 15:21:20 +0200 | titibandit | (~titibandi@user/titibandit) |
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| 2023-04-21 15:21:36 +0200 | titibandit | (~titibandi@user/titibandit) () |
| 2023-04-21 15:21:54 +0200 | ddellacosta | (~ddellacos@143.244.47.84) |
| 2023-04-21 15:24:27 +0200 | ft | (~ft@p4fc2a88b.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 2023-04-21 15:27:16 +0200 | NiceBird | (~NiceBird@185.133.111.196) |
| 2023-04-21 15:32:30 +0200 | raehik | (~raehik@cpc95906-rdng25-2-0-cust156.15-3.cable.virginm.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2023-04-21 15:37:20 +0200 | <geekosaur> | dminuoso, I'm not blaming them, just asking that it be avoided |
| 2023-04-21 15:37:38 +0200 | <geekosaur> | I'd have let it go for 1 edit but 5 in a row was a bit much |
| 2023-04-21 15:38:10 +0200 | <geekosaur> | and would have been worse if synapse hadn't put most of the message in a pastebin due to being too large for IRC |
| 2023-04-21 15:39:24 +0200 | jero98772 | (~jero98772@190.158.28.80) |
| 2023-04-21 15:39:35 +0200 | wroathe | (~wroathe@207-153-38-140.fttp.usinternet.com) |
| 2023-04-21 15:39:36 +0200 | wroathe | (~wroathe@207-153-38-140.fttp.usinternet.com) (Changing host) |
| 2023-04-21 15:39:36 +0200 | wroathe | (~wroathe@user/wroathe) |
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| 2023-04-21 15:40:47 +0200 | euandreh | (~Thunderbi@189.6.18.7) (Quit: euandreh) |
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| 2023-04-21 15:57:18 +0200 | [itchyjunk] | (~itchyjunk@user/itchyjunk/x-7353470) |
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| 2023-04-21 15:59:28 +0200 | ccapndave | (~ccapndave@mob-194-230-146-228.cgn.sunrise.net) (Client Quit) |
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| 2023-04-21 16:03:12 +0200 | rekahsoft | (~rekahsoft@bras-base-orllon1122w-grc-04-174-88-193-177.dsl.bell.ca) |
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| 2023-04-21 16:16:57 +0200 | thegeekinside | (~thegeekin@189.180.119.50) |
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| 2023-04-21 16:21:34 +0200 | ub | ubert |
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| 2023-04-21 16:35:02 +0200 | lortabac | (~lortabac@2a01:e0a:541:b8f0:bfaf:4519:163b:bb1b) (Quit: WeeChat 2.8) |
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| 2023-04-21 17:09:38 +0200 | jmdaemon | (~jmdaemon@user/jmdaemon) (Quit: ZNC 1.8.2 - https://znc.in) |
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| 2023-04-21 17:10:02 +0200 | Me-me | (~Me-me@146.102.215.218.dyn.iprimus.net.au) (Quit: This is to deliver a punchline, it's worth it for the bit.) |
| 2023-04-21 17:11:22 +0200 | acidjnk | (~acidjnk@p200300d6e715c4560d89bcbac05bf750.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
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| 2023-04-21 17:16:13 +0200 | hippoid | (~My_user_n@c-98-213-162-40.hsd1.il.comcast.net) (Changing host) |
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| 2023-04-21 17:21:31 +0200 | jero98772 | (~jero98772@2800:484:1d84:9000::1) |
| 2023-04-21 17:23:35 +0200 | jmdaemon | (~jmdaemon@user/jmdaemon) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 2023-04-21 17:32:25 +0200 | segfaultfizzbuzz | (~segfaultf@23-93-74-212.fiber.dynamic.sonic.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2023-04-21 17:32:38 +0200 | barcisz | (~barcisz@79.191.75.215.ipv4.supernova.orange.pl) (Quit: Connection closed) |
| 2023-04-21 17:32:55 +0200 | barcisz | (~barcisz@79.191.75.215.ipv4.supernova.orange.pl) |
| 2023-04-21 17:34:24 +0200 | hueso | (~root@user/hueso) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2023-04-21 17:34:37 +0200 | sammelweis | (~quassel@2601:401:8003:1f60::5) |
| 2023-04-21 17:34:39 +0200 | hueso | (~root@user/hueso) |
| 2023-04-21 17:34:39 +0200 | hueso | (~root@user/hueso) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2023-04-21 17:39:18 +0200 | hueso | (~root@user/hueso) |
| 2023-04-21 17:39:34 +0200 | anime-ps1cho | (~srijan-pa@122.171.22.131) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) |
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| 2023-04-21 17:43:33 +0200 | segfaultfizzbuzz | (~segfaultf@23-93-74-212.fiber.dynamic.sonic.net) |
| 2023-04-21 17:44:28 +0200 | rekahsoft | (~rekahsoft@bras-base-orllon1122w-grc-04-174-88-193-177.dsl.bell.ca) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2023-04-21 17:45:11 +0200 | rekahsoft | (~rekahsoft@bras-base-orllon1122w-grc-04-174-88-193-177.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 2023-04-21 17:46:01 +0200 | cods | (~fred@82-65-232-44.subs.proxad.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2023-04-21 17:46:13 +0200 | cods | (~fred@82-65-232-44.subs.proxad.net) |
| 2023-04-21 17:50:40 +0200 | econo | (uid147250@user/econo) |
| 2023-04-21 17:51:04 +0200 | eggplantade | (~Eggplanta@104-55-37-220.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) |
| 2023-04-21 17:52:02 +0200 | nschoe | (~q@141.101.51.197) (Quit: Switching off) |
| 2023-04-21 17:54:02 +0200 | rekahsoft | (~rekahsoft@bras-base-orllon1122w-grc-04-174-88-193-177.dsl.bell.ca) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2023-04-21 17:54:34 +0200 | rekahsoft | (~rekahsoft@bras-base-orllon1122w-grc-04-174-88-193-177.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 2023-04-21 18:04:52 +0200 | <segfaultfizzbuzz> | people normally talk about the performance/throughput impact of garbage collection, but i haven't encountered much discussion about security |
| 2023-04-21 18:05:11 +0200 | <[exa]> | what kind of security |
| 2023-04-21 18:05:21 +0200 | <segfaultfizzbuzz> | if you are working with say, a private key of some kind or other sensitive thing |
| 2023-04-21 18:05:29 +0200 | sammelweis | (~quassel@2601:401:8003:1f60::5) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 2023-04-21 18:05:37 +0200 | gurkenglas | (~gurkengla@dynamic-046-114-177-200.46.114.pool.telefonica.de) |
| 2023-04-21 18:05:39 +0200 | <segfaultfizzbuzz> | and that is being handled by a garbage collector, the key won't go away until it is garbage collected (?) |
| 2023-04-21 18:05:52 +0200 | tzh | (~tzh@c-24-21-73-154.hsd1.or.comcast.net) |
| 2023-04-21 18:05:55 +0200 | <[exa]> | ah then if you don't manage the memory for it manually you're either doomed beyond discussion or you publicly declare that you don't care |
| 2023-04-21 18:06:11 +0200 | <[exa]> | spoiler: it won't go away even if garbage collected |
| 2023-04-21 18:06:13 +0200 | <segfaultfizzbuzz> | okay so you must manually manage sensitive data |
| 2023-04-21 18:06:30 +0200 | <segfaultfizzbuzz> | oh the memory doesn't get zeroed out i am guessing? |
| 2023-04-21 18:06:45 +0200 | eggplantade | (~Eggplanta@104-55-37-220.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2023-04-21 18:06:52 +0200 | <ski> | i'd not rely on it |
| 2023-04-21 18:07:03 +0200 | <L29Ah> | segfaultfizzbuzz: memory only gets zeroed out when given anew to some process by the kernel |
| 2023-04-21 18:07:11 +0200 | <[exa]> | spoiler 2: your smart operating system will then swap out the key to a hard disk which you will throw out with the other things and random guys who sort the waste will have your keys in plaintext there |
| 2023-04-21 18:07:13 +0200 | <segfaultfizzbuzz> | yipes |
| 2023-04-21 18:07:22 +0200 | <dolio> | Even in stuff like C, deallocating isn't going to zero out the memory, most likely. |
| 2023-04-21 18:07:35 +0200 | <[exa]> | yeah |
| 2023-04-21 18:07:46 +0200 | <[exa]> | in summary, GC is the least of the problems there :D |
| 2023-04-21 18:07:58 +0200 | <segfaultfizzbuzz> | so then how do haskellers manage secrets? |
| 2023-04-21 18:08:21 +0200 | <segfaultfizzbuzz> | it seems like you must know when you are done and you must mutate a secret (zero out or whatever) when done |
| 2023-04-21 18:08:45 +0200 | raehik | (~raehik@cpc95906-rdng25-2-0-cust156.15-3.cable.virginm.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2023-04-21 18:09:12 +0200 | <[exa]> | good question, I guess most people go the "no care" way |
| 2023-04-21 18:09:24 +0200 | <jean-paul[m]> | No, before you start you must carefully allocate the memory so that it isn't carelessly copied by other parts of your system |
| 2023-04-21 18:09:41 +0200 | <segfaultfizzbuzz> | wow what lo |
| 2023-04-21 18:09:46 +0200 | <segfaultfizzbuzz> | lol |
| 2023-04-21 18:09:47 +0200 | sammelweis | (~quassel@2601:401:8003:1f60:3859:e60e:adbd:7270) |
| 2023-04-21 18:10:29 +0200 | <L29Ah> | segfaultfizzbuzz: i don't care: i don't see a reason to tbh |
| 2023-04-21 18:10:30 +0200 | <[exa]> | also usually the low-level libraries do the heavy lifting, such as you usually use something like openSSL and gnuTLS to make https connections, which are typically written so that they do the Rightest Thing |
| 2023-04-21 18:10:50 +0200 | <segfaultfizzbuzz> | so basically, if you manage confidential/secret data, that must be a linear/affine type,... and actually it might be worthwhile to call that a "secure linear type" or "secure affine type" as the memory management needs to also wipe the data... |
| 2023-04-21 18:11:24 +0200 | <[exa]> | and make sure the data is locked in memory |
| 2023-04-21 18:11:28 +0200 | <segfaultfizzbuzz> | locked? |
| 2023-04-21 18:11:36 +0200 | <jean-paul[m]> | It's not clear how much sense it makes to talk about the types of such things until you have a type system that acknowledges the existence of things like MMUs and page faults and swap. |
| 2023-04-21 18:11:38 +0200 | <[exa]> | see `man mlockall` |
| 2023-04-21 18:12:26 +0200 | <[exa]> | also, if you want to be really sure, you want to prevent all CPU branchy instructions that use bits from the secret data (if(secret_bit) can be sploited to leak the bit) |
| 2023-04-21 18:12:56 +0200 | azimut | (~azimut@gateway/tor-sasl/azimut) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
| 2023-04-21 18:13:04 +0200 | <segfaultfizzbuzz> | what? if(secret_bit)? |
| 2023-04-21 18:13:09 +0200 | <[exa]> | and finally you might want to completely prevent other programs from accessing the RAM neighborhood of your data in order to prevent the rowhammer attacks |
| 2023-04-21 18:13:24 +0200 | <[exa]> | segfaultfizzbuzz: yeah there are branch predictor timing attacks against that |
| 2023-04-21 18:13:25 +0200 | <ski> | segfaultfizzbuzz : timing attacks ? |
| 2023-04-21 18:13:33 +0200 | <jean-paul[m]> | If you branch depending on the contents of your secret, you leak your secret in the time it takes to complete your operation. |
| 2023-04-21 18:13:36 +0200 | <segfaultfizzbuzz> | jean-paul[m]: i don't see any reason for swap today (???) the other two things i don't understand |
| 2023-04-21 18:13:59 +0200 | <segfaultfizzbuzz> | jean-paul[m]: ah right |
| 2023-04-21 18:14:14 +0200 | <jean-paul[m]> | segfaultfizzbuzz: Even if you don't see any reason for it, it does exist, so if you want to write software that doesn't write its secrets to a hard drive somewhere, you have to deal with it. |
| 2023-04-21 18:14:16 +0200 | <L29Ah> | segfaultfizzbuzz: swap is great for indefinite suspend (on battery devices) and for leaking leaky software |
| 2023-04-21 18:14:29 +0200 | <segfaultfizzbuzz> | jean-paul[m]: which also means that strictness is important for security, i think because laziness becomes a timing channel? |
| 2023-04-21 18:14:43 +0200 | <geekosaur> | or for building ghc on a laptop ") |
| 2023-04-21 18:14:52 +0200 | <[exa]> | segfaultfizzbuzz: the problem is way beyond strictness and laziness |
| 2023-04-21 18:14:59 +0200 | <jean-paul[m]> | segfaultfizzbuzz: Possibly! Sounds like an interesting paper someone should write/someone has already written and would be fun to read. |
| 2023-04-21 18:15:11 +0200 | <[exa]> | also that reminds me the funny phreak with listening to RSA keys via high-frequency microphone |
| 2023-04-21 18:15:16 +0200 | <[exa]> | where's the paper |
| 2023-04-21 18:15:47 +0200 | <jean-paul[m]> | Basically, your computer is a sieve and the default behavior is for anything you put in it to leak out of a million holes. |
| 2023-04-21 18:15:51 +0200 | <[exa]> | ah yes here, that's a magnificent side channel https://www.cs.tau.ac.il/~tromer/acoustic/ |
| 2023-04-21 18:15:54 +0200 | <dolio> | See? You've been not caring about all the security nuances of all the software you use this whole time, just like most other people. |
| 2023-04-21 18:16:00 +0200 | <segfaultfizzbuzz> | jean-paul[m]: yeah i have learned that much |
| 2023-04-21 18:16:11 +0200 | anime-psycho | (~srijan-pa@122.171.22.131) |
| 2023-04-21 18:16:25 +0200 | <segfaultfizzbuzz> | but like, do big iron servers have swap enabled? like "hey we have 4tb of ram but turn swap on just in case"? seems pretty lol |
| 2023-04-21 18:19:46 +0200 | hueso | (~root@user/hueso) (Quit: hueso) |
| 2023-04-21 18:22:46 +0200 | <segfaultfizzbuzz> | well i gotta run sorry but i will check the logs in a couple hours or so |
| 2023-04-21 18:23:11 +0200 | hueso | (~root@user/hueso) |
| 2023-04-21 18:26:00 +0200 | eggplantade | (~Eggplanta@104-55-37-220.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) |
| 2023-04-21 18:27:40 +0200 | segfaultfizzbuzz | (~segfaultf@23-93-74-212.fiber.dynamic.sonic.net) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2023-04-21 18:34:37 +0200 | mbuf | (~Shakthi@49.207.178.186) (Quit: Leaving) |
| 2023-04-21 18:34:52 +0200 | <__monty__> | I wonder whether non-strict evaluation actually allows for more opportunities to combat memory/timing side-channels by randomly evaluating thunks before they're needed? |
| 2023-04-21 18:36:53 +0200 | eggplantade | (~Eggplanta@104-55-37-220.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2023-04-21 18:39:38 +0200 | <jean-paul[m]> | Anything "random" doesn't solve timing side-channels. |
| 2023-04-21 18:39:58 +0200 | <jean-paul[m]> | It adds more noise which might require you take more samples before you find the signal, that's all. |
| 2023-04-21 18:41:50 +0200 | <dolio> | Most non-strict evaluation strategies aren't random, either. |
| 2023-04-21 18:42:28 +0200 | <dolio> | At least, the ones that get used. |
| 2023-04-21 18:42:45 +0200 | <__monty__> | dolio: I mean intentionally taking advantage of the flexibility in when things have to get evaluated. |
| 2023-04-21 18:43:05 +0200 | <jean-paul[m]> | I suspect it would be very annoying in general if thunk evaluation order were randomized. |
| 2023-04-21 18:43:41 +0200 | <__monty__> | jean-paul[m]: Noise is already a bonus. But the runtime could also intentionally try to obscure signals. |
| 2023-04-21 18:44:07 +0200 | <juri_> | crypto in haskell is a Hard problem. |
| 2023-04-21 18:44:43 +0200 | <jean-paul[m]> | __monty__: in strict languages, people are sometimes tempted to add delays and such to deal with this problem. It's not generally recognized as a winning strategy. I imagine the same thing would be true about playing games with thunk evaluation order in a lazy language. |
| 2023-04-21 18:45:15 +0200 | <jean-paul[m]> | Just a hunch, of course. |
| 2023-04-21 18:46:45 +0200 | eggplantade | (~Eggplanta@104-55-37-220.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) |
| 2023-04-21 18:47:07 +0200 | <__monty__> | I think it's still interesting as a way to deal with things where you can't completely get to constant-time operation pragmatically. |
| 2023-04-21 18:48:10 +0200 | MajorBiscuit | (~MajorBisc@145.94.168.115) (Quit: WeeChat 3.6) |
| 2023-04-21 18:53:40 +0200 | segfaultfizzbuzz | (~segfaultf@23-93-74-212.fiber.dynamic.sonic.net) |
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| 2023-04-21 18:58:54 +0200 | jargon | (~jargon@174-22-213-236.phnx.qwest.net) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2023-04-21 19:01:07 +0200 | gnalzo | (~gnalzo@2a01:e0a:498:fd50:fcc6:bb5d:489a:ce8c) (Quit: WeeChat 3.8) |
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| 2023-04-21 19:16:49 +0200 | natto | (~natto@140.238.225.67) (Quit: a.) |
| 2023-04-21 19:18:04 +0200 | natto | (~natto@140.238.225.67) |
| 2023-04-21 19:20:34 +0200 | gurkenglas | (~gurkengla@dynamic-046-114-177-200.46.114.pool.telefonica.de) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 2023-04-21 19:23:03 +0200 | Albina_Pavlovna | (~Albina_Pa@2603-7000-76f0-76e0-f900-6862-141c-1878.res6.spectrum.com) (Quit: bb) |
| 2023-04-21 19:28:56 +0200 | segfaultfizzbuzz | (~segfaultf@23-93-74-212.fiber.dynamic.sonic.net) |
| 2023-04-21 19:31:49 +0200 | eggplantade | (~Eggplanta@104-55-37-220.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2023-04-21 19:33:30 +0200 | segfaultfizzbuzz | (~segfaultf@23-93-74-212.fiber.dynamic.sonic.net) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
| 2023-04-21 19:36:11 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@c-001-001-006.client.esciencecenter.eduvpn.nl) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 2023-04-21 19:38:37 +0200 | eggplantade | (~Eggplanta@104-55-37-220.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) |
| 2023-04-21 19:40:57 +0200 | wroathe | (~wroathe@207-153-38-140.fttp.usinternet.com) |
| 2023-04-21 19:40:57 +0200 | wroathe | (~wroathe@207-153-38-140.fttp.usinternet.com) (Changing host) |
| 2023-04-21 19:40:57 +0200 | wroathe | (~wroathe@user/wroathe) |
| 2023-04-21 19:47:59 +0200 | gurkenglas | (~gurkengla@dynamic-046-114-177-200.46.114.pool.telefonica.de) |
| 2023-04-21 19:49:20 +0200 | segfaultfizzbuzz | (~segfaultf@23-93-74-212.fiber.dynamic.sonic.net) |
| 2023-04-21 19:51:44 +0200 | wroathe | (~wroathe@user/wroathe) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2023-04-21 19:52:42 +0200 | <jean-paul[m]> | modern-uri has this RText type and doesn't seem to export its constructor... So I cannot pattern match on values of this type, right? |
| 2023-04-21 19:53:34 +0200 | segfaultfizzbuzz | (~segfaultf@23-93-74-212.fiber.dynamic.sonic.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2023-04-21 19:53:40 +0200 | <monochrom> | So you go through all of modern-uri's API and look for other ways. |
| 2023-04-21 19:55:30 +0200 | alexherbo2 | (~alexherbo@2a02-842a-8180-4601-7945-4893-06bb-2687.rev.sfr.net) |
| 2023-04-21 19:55:48 +0200 | delYsid | (~user@user/delYsid) |
| 2023-04-21 19:57:09 +0200 | <jean-paul[m]> | I don't see anything, but I also can't prove a negative :) |
| 2023-04-21 19:57:20 +0200 | Guest|82 | (~Guest|82@ip-178-13-248-87.eidsiva.net) |
| 2023-04-21 19:58:07 +0200 | Guest|82 | (~Guest|82@ip-178-13-248-87.eidsiva.net) (Client Quit) |
| 2023-04-21 19:59:15 +0200 | <jean-paul[m]> | Or, well, I see unRText so I can unwrap the values and then do something with those, but I was hoping to just do one pattern for this whole thing. |
| 2023-04-21 20:00:10 +0200 | <monochrom> | You can write your own uni-directional pattern synonym :) |
| 2023-04-21 20:00:33 +0200 | <ski> | unRText :: RText l -> Text |
| 2023-04-21 20:00:42 +0200 | <jean-paul[m]> | Aha, an excuse to learn about pattern synonyms. |
| 2023-04-21 20:00:44 +0200 | <ski> | yea |
| 2023-04-21 20:00:53 +0200 | <ski> | (or view patterns) |
| 2023-04-21 20:01:19 +0200 | <monochrom> | But personally I don't obsess over pattern matching when the whole point is an abstract type. |
| 2023-04-21 20:03:27 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@c-001-001-006.client.esciencecenter.eduvpn.nl) |
| 2023-04-21 20:04:03 +0200 | <jean-paul[m]> | I think the point of RText is only safe construction. |
| 2023-04-21 20:04:28 +0200 | <monochrom> | Yes, and "safe construction" = "abstract type". |
| 2023-04-21 20:04:37 +0200 | <jean-paul[m]> | Hm. |
| 2023-04-21 20:04:57 +0200 | <monochrom> | Just like "fittest" = "survival" |
| 2023-04-21 20:11:10 +0200 | <ski> | OCaml has "private types", which allow deconstruction (matching and projection), but not construction, outside of the module (see <https://v2.ocaml.org/manual/privatetypes.html>) |
| 2023-04-21 20:12:23 +0200 | <monochrom> | In the case of RText, I actually question the value of it in the first place. |
| 2023-04-21 20:13:54 +0200 | <monochrom> | But in general when abstract types make sense, I doubt the value of verbatim deconstruction. For example Sequence, HashMap. |
| 2023-04-21 20:17:59 +0200 | <monochrom> | Clarification: I question the value of having this RText type in the first place. |
| 2023-04-21 20:19:41 +0200 | <jean-paul[m]> | How would you ensure safety? |
| 2023-04-21 20:20:09 +0200 | <monochrom> | How much safety in this case do I ever need to ensure? |
| 2023-04-21 20:20:36 +0200 | <monochrom> | Like, I know that URI's uriHost field has a valid host. Great. |
| 2023-04-21 20:20:50 +0200 | <monochrom> | But I already know that from the field name "uriHost" itself. |
| 2023-04-21 20:22:49 +0200 | <monochrom> | You may raise the marginal possibility that I handcode my own "myURI = URI{uriHost : "key=value", ...}" and goof up there. |
| 2023-04-21 20:23:10 +0200 | <monochrom> | But I don't even do that. I can just use any of the URI parsers provided. |
| 2023-04-21 20:23:50 +0200 | <monochrom> | I am lazy. I write "parseURI "http:..."" not "URI{handcode every field painstakingly}". |
| 2023-04-21 20:26:14 +0200 | <c_wraith> | but do you use an irrefutable match in the process? |
| 2023-04-21 20:26:39 +0200 | <monochrom> | Depends on the context and the risk model. |
| 2023-04-21 20:26:44 +0200 | <jean-paul[m]> | Reasonable. I wonder if a pattern like `add u@URI{uriQuery} = u { uriQuery = (mkQueryKey "foo", mkQueryValue "Bar"):uriQuery }` gets some benefit here. But that was really annoying to type out, I don't think I like it. |
| 2023-04-21 20:27:13 +0200 | <jean-paul[m]> | (and still wrong since mk* can fail) |
| 2023-04-21 20:28:26 +0200 | <monochrom> | There is some small value in this particular safety. I argue that it is too small. |
| 2023-04-21 20:30:29 +0200 | eggplantade | (~Eggplanta@104-55-37-220.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2023-04-21 20:36:48 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@c-001-001-006.client.esciencecenter.eduvpn.nl) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 2023-04-21 20:43:52 +0200 | jmdaemon | (~jmdaemon@user/jmdaemon) |
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| 2023-04-21 20:55:22 +0200 | Techcable | (~Techcable@user/Techcable) |
| 2023-04-21 21:01:31 +0200 | anime-psycho | (~srijan-pa@122.171.22.131) (Quit: Lost terminal) |
| 2023-04-21 21:03:47 +0200 | barcisz | (~barcisz@79.191.75.215.ipv4.supernova.orange.pl) |
| 2023-04-21 21:08:24 +0200 | heraldo | (~heraldo@user/heraldo) |
| 2023-04-21 21:08:30 +0200 | barcisz | (~barcisz@79.191.75.215.ipv4.supernova.orange.pl) (Client Quit) |
| 2023-04-21 21:09:22 +0200 | raehik | (~raehik@cpc95906-rdng25-2-0-cust156.15-3.cable.virginm.net) |
| 2023-04-21 21:14:11 +0200 | sammelweis | (~quassel@2601:401:8003:1f60:3859:e60e:adbd:7270) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2023-04-21 21:15:34 +0200 | gurkenglas | (~gurkengla@dynamic-046-114-177-200.46.114.pool.telefonica.de) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2023-04-21 21:20:25 +0200 | machinedgod | (~machinedg@d198-53-218-113.abhsia.telus.net) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 2023-04-21 21:24:59 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@c-001-001-006.client.esciencecenter.eduvpn.nl) |
| 2023-04-21 21:27:49 +0200 | Tuplanolla | (~Tuplanoll@91-159-68-236.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 2023-04-21 21:28:25 +0200 | vglfr | (~vglfr@46.96.172.186) |
| 2023-04-21 21:29:58 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@c-001-001-006.client.esciencecenter.eduvpn.nl) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 2023-04-21 21:31:04 +0200 | eggplantade | (~Eggplanta@104-55-37-220.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) |
| 2023-04-21 21:34:12 +0200 | elevenkb | (~elevenkb@105.225.53.253) |
| 2023-04-21 21:35:27 +0200 | eggplantade | (~Eggplanta@104-55-37-220.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
| 2023-04-21 21:35:53 +0200 | eggplantade | (~Eggplanta@104-55-37-220.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) |
| 2023-04-21 21:40:08 +0200 | elevenkb | (~elevenkb@105.225.53.253) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2023-04-21 21:40:25 +0200 | L29Ah | (~L29Ah@wikipedia/L29Ah) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2023-04-21 21:48:24 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@c-001-001-006.client.esciencecenter.eduvpn.nl) |
| 2023-04-21 21:48:48 +0200 | raehik | (~raehik@cpc95906-rdng25-2-0-cust156.15-3.cable.virginm.net) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 2023-04-21 21:51:25 +0200 | barcisz | (~barcisz@79.191.75.215.ipv4.supernova.orange.pl) |
| 2023-04-21 21:55:21 +0200 | raehik | (~raehik@cpc95906-rdng25-2-0-cust156.15-3.cable.virginm.net) |
| 2023-04-21 22:01:15 +0200 | biberu | (~biberu@user/biberu) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2023-04-21 22:07:27 +0200 | biberu | (~biberu@user/biberu) |
| 2023-04-21 22:10:37 +0200 | eggplantade | (~Eggplanta@104-55-37-220.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2023-04-21 22:11:32 +0200 | elevenkb | (~elevenkb@105.225.53.253) |
| 2023-04-21 22:13:25 +0200 | heraldo | (~heraldo@user/heraldo) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2023-04-21 22:18:39 +0200 | heraldo | (~heraldo@user/heraldo) |
| 2023-04-21 22:20:54 +0200 | ryantrinkle | (~ryantrink@38.27.99.245) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
| 2023-04-21 22:22:44 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@c-001-001-006.client.esciencecenter.eduvpn.nl) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2023-04-21 22:28:55 +0200 | <peutri> | Anyone have experience with http-conduit over http-client-tls? I'm having trouble parallelizing it. |
| 2023-04-21 22:29:42 +0200 | <peutri> | I'm launching a few threads downloading stuff over https, shared Manager, and after a few minutes they all crash for lack of entropy as reported by lower-level cryptonite |
| 2023-04-21 22:29:59 +0200 | accord | (uid568320@id-568320.hampstead.irccloud.com) |
| 2023-04-21 22:35:00 +0200 | jargon | (~jargon@174-22-213-236.phnx.qwest.net) |
| 2023-04-21 22:36:06 +0200 | ryantrinkle | (~ryantrink@209.91.195.194) |
| 2023-04-21 22:36:30 +0200 | eggplantade | (~Eggplanta@104-55-37-220.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) |
| 2023-04-21 22:36:54 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@c-001-001-006.client.esciencecenter.eduvpn.nl) |
| 2023-04-21 22:37:45 +0200 | heraldo | (~heraldo@user/heraldo) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2023-04-21 22:39:27 +0200 | heraldo | (~heraldo@user/heraldo) |
| 2023-04-21 22:41:25 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@c-001-001-006.client.esciencecenter.eduvpn.nl) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2023-04-21 22:42:45 +0200 | ryantrinkle | (~ryantrink@209.91.195.194) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2023-04-21 22:44:04 +0200 | heraldo | (~heraldo@user/heraldo) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2023-04-21 22:50:30 +0200 | heraldo | (~heraldo@user/heraldo) |
| 2023-04-21 22:56:08 +0200 | ryantrinkle | (~ryantrink@209.91.235.83) |
| 2023-04-21 22:57:41 +0200 | eggplantade | (~Eggplanta@104-55-37-220.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2023-04-21 22:58:04 +0200 | _ht | (~Thunderbi@28-52-174-82.ftth.glasoperator.nl) (Quit: _ht) |
| 2023-04-21 22:59:09 +0200 | heraldo | (~heraldo@user/heraldo) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
| 2023-04-21 22:59:19 +0200 | <peutri> | (threadcount times https://pastebin.com/JPzTHG9c after downloading ~3MB of data) |
| 2023-04-21 23:00:04 +0200 | gnalzo | (~gnalzo@2a01:e0a:498:fd50:fcc6:bb5d:489a:ce8c) |
| 2023-04-21 23:00:47 +0200 | jmdaemon | (~jmdaemon@user/jmdaemon) |
| 2023-04-21 23:01:05 +0200 | [exa] | (~exa@user/exa/x-3587197) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2023-04-21 23:01:18 +0200 | kimiamania | (~65804703@user/kimiamania) (Quit: PegeLinux) |
| 2023-04-21 23:01:30 +0200 | heraldo | (~heraldo@user/heraldo) |
| 2023-04-21 23:01:37 +0200 | kimiamania | (~65804703@user/kimiamania) |
| 2023-04-21 23:11:19 +0200 | heraldo | (~heraldo@user/heraldo) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 2023-04-21 23:11:31 +0200 | dsrt^ | (~dsrt@c-76-105-96-13.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) |
| 2023-04-21 23:12:30 +0200 | heraldo | (~heraldo@user/heraldo) |
| 2023-04-21 23:16:48 +0200 | heraldo | (~heraldo@user/heraldo) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 2023-04-21 23:23:46 +0200 | heraldo | (~heraldo@user/heraldo) |
| 2023-04-21 23:25:56 +0200 | alexherbo2 | (~alexherbo@2a02-842a-8180-4601-7945-4893-06bb-2687.rev.sfr.net) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2023-04-21 23:28:05 +0200 | heraldo | (~heraldo@user/heraldo) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2023-04-21 23:28:52 +0200 | vglfr | (~vglfr@46.96.172.186) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 2023-04-21 23:31:02 +0200 | machinedgod | (~machinedg@d198-53-218-113.abhsia.telus.net) |
| 2023-04-21 23:31:44 +0200 | raehik | (~raehik@cpc95906-rdng25-2-0-cust156.15-3.cable.virginm.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2023-04-21 23:32:12 +0200 | cassiopea | (~cassiopea@user/cassiopea) |
| 2023-04-21 23:34:04 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@c-001-001-006.client.esciencecenter.eduvpn.nl) |
| 2023-04-21 23:34:51 +0200 | heraldo | (~heraldo@user/heraldo) |
| 2023-04-21 23:35:16 +0200 | trev | (~trev@user/trev) (Quit: trev) |
| 2023-04-21 23:35:23 +0200 | son0p | (~ff@181.136.122.143) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2023-04-21 23:37:01 +0200 | eggplantade | (~Eggplanta@104-55-37-220.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) |
| 2023-04-21 23:38:37 +0200 | rf | (~rf@2605:59c8:1604:2210:3b9d:e321:bd23:2925) |
| 2023-04-21 23:39:05 +0200 | heraldo | (~heraldo@user/heraldo) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2023-04-21 23:42:13 +0200 | michalz | (~michalz@185.246.207.203) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2023-04-21 23:43:45 +0200 | elain4 | (~textual@static-71-251-226-194.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2023-04-21 23:45:47 +0200 | elevenkb | (~elevenkb@105.225.53.253) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 2023-04-21 23:46:18 +0200 | heraldo | (~heraldo@user/heraldo) |
| 2023-04-21 23:47:22 +0200 | mncheck | (~mncheck@193.224.205.254) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2023-04-21 23:48:50 +0200 | segfaultfizzbuzz | (~segfaultf@23-93-74-212.fiber.dynamic.sonic.net) |
| 2023-04-21 23:56:10 +0200 | heraldo | (~heraldo@user/heraldo) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 2023-04-21 23:57:24 +0200 | heraldo | (~heraldo@user/heraldo) |
| 2023-04-21 23:57:54 +0200 | coot | (~coot@2a02:a310:e241:1b00:ec1a:e9df:79ac:66ba) (Quit: coot) |
| 2023-04-21 23:58:05 +0200 | __monty__ | (~toonn@user/toonn) (Quit: leaving) |
