2023/04/08

2023-04-08 00:00:01 +0000Lord_of_Life(~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915)
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2023-04-08 00:05:07 +0000vglfr(~vglfr@88.155.38.77) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2023-04-08 00:06:32 +0000 <geekosaur[m]> Actually I missed a step: on a branch instead of a release you need to run aclocal before ./configure
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2023-04-08 00:26:24 +0000 <Umeaboy> geekosaur[m]: Is autoreconf still needed before ./configure?
2023-04-08 00:27:06 +0000 <geekosaur> autoreconf is aclocal plus a few other things that aren't relevant to ghc; all you really should need is aclocal
2023-04-08 00:27:24 +0000waleee(~waleee@2001:9b0:21c:4000:5bf9:6515:c030:57b7)
2023-04-08 00:27:50 +0000bratwurst(~dfadsva@2604:3d09:207f:f650::708a)
2023-04-08 00:31:29 +0000 <Umeaboy> geekosaur: Does this %build part look correct to you then? https://pastebin.com/sFEfiTDR
2023-04-08 00:31:39 +0000lbseale(~quassel@user/ep1ctetus)
2023-04-08 00:31:54 +0000 <geekosaur> more to the point, autoreconf runs autoheader (unneeded), aclocal, libtoolize (unneeded), autopoint (unneeded), and configure
2023-04-08 00:32:08 +0000 <geekosaur> er, autoconf, which should also not be needed
2023-04-08 00:33:12 +0000 <geekosaur> uh? why are you running hadrian/build before aclocal and configure? and make afterward (make isn't even supported if you're building 9.7)
2023-04-08 00:33:49 +0000 <Umeaboy> Okey. I'm new to porting compilers. :)
2023-04-08 00:34:55 +0000mikess(~sam@user/mikess)
2023-04-08 00:35:46 +0000 <geekosaur> mm, you may need autoconf at that; been a while since I updated my checkout to the point of needing it
2023-04-08 00:36:03 +0000 <geekosaur> so autoreconf in place of aclocal to be certain
2023-04-08 00:36:48 +0000heraldo(~heraldo@user/heraldo) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2023-04-08 00:37:46 +0000 <geekosaur> run hadrian/build after configure, and get rid of the make invocation because on 9.3 or later you'll get a complaint that there's no Makefile (which is correct as make is no longer supported after 9.2)
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2023-04-08 00:57:25 +0000 <geekosaur[m]> Also I still don't see you running ./boot which you need for a build from git at least
2023-04-08 00:58:11 +0000 <geekosaur[m]> But I'm going to bed, it's getting late here
2023-04-08 01:00:13 +0000 <Umeaboy> Okidoki.
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2023-04-08 09:59:01 +0000L29Ah(~L29Ah@wikipedia/L29Ah) ()
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2023-04-08 10:23:24 +0000random-jellyfish(~random-je@user/random-jellyfish)
2023-04-08 10:24:30 +0000 <random-jellyfish> how does an smt solver work? does it just translate higher level expressions to boolean expressions and feed them to a sat solver? or does it so something more complicates
2023-04-08 10:24:57 +0000 <random-jellyfish> I'm having a hard tike reverse engineering their code...
2023-04-08 10:25:02 +0000 <random-jellyfish> time*
2023-04-08 10:25:36 +0000 <random-jellyfish> sorry for the typos, typing on mobile
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2023-04-08 10:39:10 +0000 <pkal> I was just reading about that in "Handbook of Satisfiability" a few days ago. That might be a useful resource to understanding how they work.
2023-04-08 10:39:58 +0000 <pkal> It seems the chapter can be found here: https://homepage.cs.uiowa.edu/~tinelli/papers/BarSST-09.pdf
2023-04-08 10:40:44 +0000 <probie> I remember being loaned a good book on this (and other things related to automated theorem proving), but I can't remember the name. All I remember is that all the code examples were in ocaml. I don't suppose anyone here can identify the book based on such a vague description
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2023-04-08 12:38:13 +0000 <dipper> hi how do create a api in haskell, or does it have a framework to do that,
2023-04-08 12:38:38 +0000vglfr(~vglfr@46.96.169.53)
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2023-04-08 12:39:36 +0000 <dipper> like a api get user data in front-end
2023-04-08 12:39:54 +0000vglfr(~vglfr@46.96.169.53)
2023-04-08 12:40:04 +0000 <mauke> you know, I really hate that "API" has somehow changed meaning from "application programmer interface" to "web application"
2023-04-08 12:40:18 +0000freeside(~mengwong@103.252.202.85)
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2023-04-08 12:46:55 +0000 <probie> mauke: It's like how REST doesn't actually mean REST any more and instead just means "using HTTP"
2023-04-08 12:47:11 +0000 <dipper> hi mauke I know what you mean, but it doesn't matter, it just a including relationship, so I measure it
2023-04-08 12:48:39 +0000freeside(~mengwong@103.252.202.85) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2023-04-08 12:49:45 +0000 <dipper> I know a Yesod , but it maybe have more choice
2023-04-08 12:51:50 +0000 <probie> dipper: servant is very popular right now, but uses advanced type level features
2023-04-08 12:52:35 +0000eggplantade(~Eggplanta@2600:1700:38c5:d800:2c24:c958:e9eb:d096)
2023-04-08 12:56:19 +0000 <darkling> probie: I call that "HTTP-RPC", because it's so often that, too.
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2023-04-08 12:58:19 +0000 <dipper> thankyou probie I'll see it
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2023-04-08 14:01:55 +0000kenran(~user@user/kenran)
2023-04-08 14:03:02 +0000 <jumper149> Hi people, when do you think will there be the first frontend framework using the new JS backend?
2023-04-08 14:03:24 +0000 <jumper149> And do you think miso and reflex will be ported?
2023-04-08 14:05:51 +0000 <dipper_> what do you mean 'new js backend'?
2023-04-08 14:08:01 +0000 <geekosaur> ghc 9.6.1 has javascript and wasm backends
2023-04-08 14:08:02 +0000machinedgod(~machinedg@d198-53-218-113.abhsia.telus.net)
2023-04-08 14:08:18 +0000 <geekosaur> I suspect it'll be a while since they're both at "tech preview" status
2023-04-08 14:08:32 +0000 <geekosaur> if you want production level, ghcjs is still the way to go
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2023-04-08 14:29:00 +0000 <maralorn> <jumper149> "And do you think miso and reflex..." <- I guess that depends a lot on library support.
2023-04-08 14:29:55 +0000mesaoptimizer(apotheosis@user/PapuaHardyNet) ()
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2023-04-08 14:30:53 +0000 <maralorn> Stuff like jsaddle needs to support it.
2023-04-08 14:31:34 +0000 <maralorn> reflex still hangs on ghc 8.6.5 or something? They are generally not quick on stuff like that...
2023-04-08 14:31:57 +0000coot(~coot@2a02:a310:e241:1b00:ec1a:e9df:79ac:66ba) (Quit: coot)
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2023-04-08 14:35:59 +0000 <jumper149> maralorn: Well, both projects are depending on legacy versions of GHC by now.
2023-04-08 14:36:19 +0000 <jumper149> There are no ambitions trying to write up something new, right?
2023-04-08 14:37:00 +0000 <geekosaur> there are ambitions for reflex but they're kinda different from the ghc devs' ambitions as I understand it
2023-04-08 14:37:10 +0000 <geekosaur> they want to rewire Arrow
2023-04-08 14:37:58 +0000 <geekosaur> but if someone got that into ghc 9.8 I could see reflex being updated to take advantage of it
2023-04-08 14:38:38 +0000 <jumper149> geekosaur: `Control.Arrow`?
2023-04-08 14:39:13 +0000 <geekosaur> yes
2023-04-08 14:39:56 +0000 <jumper149> Why don't they just use their own typeclasses? I don't understand why they would be blocked by GHC.
2023-04-08 14:40:06 +0000 <geekosaur> they want it to become a symmetric monoidal category, and for the `arr` combinator to go away
2023-04-08 14:40:35 +0000 <geekosaur> because they can take advantage of existing stuff instead of having to write their own versions
2023-04-08 14:41:16 +0000 <geekosaur> (lots of people want `arr` to go away, it's like the main reason almost nobody uses Arrow)
2023-04-08 14:44:14 +0000 <geekosaur> talk to Cale about it when he's around, he'll talk your ear off 🙂
2023-04-08 14:49:41 +0000L29Ah(~L29Ah@wikipedia/L29Ah)
2023-04-08 14:50:38 +0000 <ski> there's special syntax that ties to `Arrow'
2023-04-08 14:50:52 +0000 <geekosaur> that too
2023-04-08 14:51:17 +0000 <geekosaur> you really want to be able to use `proc`, but it requires you to use the standard `Arrow`
2023-04-08 14:51:54 +0000 <geekosaur> and `-<`
2023-04-08 14:53:57 +0000 <jumper149> If I wanted to read up on arrows, should I use "Generalising Monads to Arrows, by John Hughes"? Or is there anything else?
2023-04-08 14:54:33 +0000 <ski> % :set -XArrows
2023-04-08 14:54:34 +0000 <yahb2> <no output>
2023-04-08 14:54:39 +0000 <ski> % :set -XRebindableSyntax
2023-04-08 14:54:39 +0000 <yahb2> <no output>
2023-04-08 14:54:43 +0000 <ski> % :t let (>>>) = flip (.); first f (x,y) = (f x,y); arr = undefined in proc x -> id -< x
2023-04-08 14:54:43 +0000 <yahb2> let (>>>) = flip (.); first f (x,y) = (f x,y); arr = undefined in proc x -> id -< x ; :: forall {t}. t -> t
2023-04-08 14:55:28 +0000 <ski> istr there was Ross Patterson paper ?
2023-04-08 14:55:56 +0000 <jumper149> "A New Notation for Arrows, by Ross Paterson, in ICFP 2001, Firenze, Italy, pp229-240."
2023-04-08 14:56:08 +0000 <ski> @where arrows
2023-04-08 14:56:08 +0000 <lambdabot> http://www.haskell.org/arrows/
2023-04-08 14:56:12 +0000 <jumper149> From the Haddocks of `Control.Arrow`
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2023-04-08 15:08:16 +0000 <maralorn> Interesting. But there is not even a ghc proposal for modifying arrow yet, is there?
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2023-04-08 16:59:12 +0000mon_aarajsent a hs code block: https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/libera.chat/fbfe42c262829f497cafd9c8d19ceaefdd7c…
2023-04-08 17:00:06 +0000 <mon_aaraj> s/bpa/paste/, s/st/tomsmeding.com/, s/GTJOUWWSAVYDTOT62OJDRL5HSU/uIaZKfJI/
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2023-04-08 17:00:42 +0000chomwitt(~chomwitt@ppp-94-67-192-72.home.otenet.gr)
2023-04-08 17:01:11 +0000 <mon_aaraj> starting to think i should just go with debrujin indices. it's probably not going to change much but i feel it deep in my bones that my current implementation has tons of ways it could go wrong
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2023-04-08 17:17:54 +0000 <ski> mon_aaraj : line 23,24
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2023-04-08 17:18:29 +0000 <ski> also `eval' is partial
2023-04-08 17:19:41 +0000 <ski> (and `freeVariables' is inefficient)
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2023-04-08 17:48:57 +0000Midjak(~Midjak@82.66.147.146)
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2023-04-08 17:52:08 +0000jakalx(~jakalx@base.jakalx.net) ()
2023-04-08 18:05:38 +0000 <mon_aaraj> <ski> "ribosomerocker : line 23,24" <- what's wrong with them?
2023-04-08 18:07:26 +0000jpds3(~jpds@gateway/tor-sasl/jpds)
2023-04-08 18:09:29 +0000jpds2(~jpds@gateway/tor-sasl/jpds) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2023-04-08 18:15:01 +0000 <mauke> if var' is among the free variables of applied, you don't substitute var
2023-04-08 18:15:56 +0000 <mauke> I'm pretty sure you're supposed to rename var' instead and then substitute var -> applied
2023-04-08 18:20:08 +0000MajorBiscuit(~MajorBisc@2001:1c00:2408:a400:7f99:b6d8:c8b8:dc05)
2023-04-08 18:20:08 +0000MacSlow(~MacSlow@213.135.13.170)
2023-04-08 18:21:17 +0000 <MacSlow> Greetings everyone
2023-04-08 18:23:56 +0000shriekingnoise(~shrieking@186.137.175.87)
2023-04-08 18:27:16 +0000 <ski> (.. fwiw, i didn't actually say "ribosomerocker")
2023-04-08 18:28:01 +0000 <ski> mon_aaraj : what mauke said
2023-04-08 18:28:31 +0000 <ski> Saluations, MacSlow
2023-04-08 18:28:58 +0000 <mauke> I assume the matrix bridge rewrites nicknames
2023-04-08 18:29:14 +0000 <ski> apparently so
2023-04-08 18:29:20 +0000 <ski> (i wasn't aware of that, before)
2023-04-08 18:33:51 +0000vysn(~vysn@user/vysn)
2023-04-08 18:37:32 +0000 <geekosaur> yes
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2023-04-08 20:50:19 +0000 <Nosrep> can i make stack only profile with manual cost centers
2023-04-08 20:50:30 +0000 <Nosrep> --profile seems to add fprof auto or something like that
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2023-04-08 21:05:36 +0000 <Nosrep> hm
2023-04-08 21:05:46 +0000 <Nosrep> -fno-prof-auto works if i add it to ghc-options during build
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2023-04-08 21:21:43 +0000 <energizer> % [] > [1]
2023-04-08 21:21:43 +0000 <yahb2> False
2023-04-08 21:21:46 +0000 <energizer> why is that/
2023-04-08 21:22:40 +0000 <c_wraith> [] uses a lexicographic ordering where [] is the minimal element
2023-04-08 21:22:43 +0000 <energizer> ok
2023-04-08 21:23:37 +0000vysn(~vysn@user/vysn) (Quit: WeeChat 3.8)
2023-04-08 21:24:15 +0000jmdaemon(~jmdaemon@user/jmdaemon)
2023-04-08 21:26:58 +0000cassiopea(~cassiopea@user/cassiopea)
2023-04-08 21:27:34 +0000 <monochrom> Nosrep: Yeah, if you tell stack or cabal-install "enable profiling" they add -fprof-auto by default, so if you prefer manual-only, you have to override with -fno-prof-auto.
2023-04-08 21:27:54 +0000 <c_wraith> energizer: it's sort of necessary given that String = [Char] and standard sorting for words has things like "ant" < "ante".
2023-04-08 21:28:12 +0000 <monochrom> Err in the cabal-install case -fprop-auto-top actually.
2023-04-08 21:28:21 +0000wroathe(~wroathe@207-153-38-140.fttp.usinternet.com)
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2023-04-08 21:28:36 +0000freeside(~mengwong@103.252.202.85)
2023-04-08 21:28:41 +0000 <c_wraith> energizer: but it turns out to have convenient properties like making comparison just proceed down the two lists in lock-step
2023-04-08 21:28:52 +0000merijn(~merijn@86-86-29-250.fixed.kpn.net) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2023-04-08 21:29:16 +0000 <monochrom> I know how to tell cabal-install "enable profiling but no auto at all", but I don't know what stack offers.
2023-04-08 21:29:24 +0000sammelweis(~quassel@2601:401:8200:2d4c:bd9:d04c:7f69:eb10) (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2023-04-08 21:29:26 +0000 <sclv> it also means that [()] has the same ordering properties as the natural numbers they are in bijection to!
2023-04-08 21:30:09 +0000 <c_wraith> yeah. Lots of stuff that just works out to be really convenient
2023-04-08 21:30:10 +0000 <sclv> i.e. there is something literally "natural" about such a choice.
2023-04-08 21:30:31 +0000 <monochrom> And it is also consistent with "deriving Ord" does lexicographical order universally for all ADTs.
2023-04-08 21:30:31 +0000sammelweis(~quassel@2601:401:8200:2d4c:bd9:d04c:7f69:eb10)
2023-04-08 21:30:59 +0000 <c_wraith> Assuming you put the [] constructor first in the (imaginary) definition, anyway
2023-04-08 21:31:03 +0000 <monochrom> The most favourite total order. :)
2023-04-08 21:33:25 +0000freeside(~mengwong@103.252.202.85) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2023-04-08 21:34:20 +0000 <monochrom> Lexicographic order also has a nice straightforward correspondence with ordinals. It is a bit more significant than someone inventing it by the least thinking.
2023-04-08 21:35:27 +0000 <sclv> arguably this is because the ordinals themselves arise by the principle of least thinking (a mathematical analogue to the physical principle of least action?)
2023-04-08 21:35:40 +0000 <monochrom> haha good point
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2023-04-08 23:17:36 +0000acidjnk(~acidjnk@p200300d6e715c45269fa6b647c85025b.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2023-04-08 23:18:55 +0000Tuplanolla(~Tuplanoll@91-159-68-236.elisa-laajakaista.fi) (Quit: Leaving.)
2023-04-08 23:19:41 +0000eggplantade(~Eggplanta@2600:1700:38c5:d800:2c24:c958:e9eb:d096) (Remote host closed the connection)
2023-04-08 23:21:16 +0000phma(~phma@host-67-44-208-55.hnremote.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2023-04-08 23:21:41 +0000phma(phma@2001:5b0:215d:9858:4ed8:3c0:48bf:3008)
2023-04-08 23:23:54 +0000fmlatghor(~lcoogan@user/fmlatghor) (WeeChat 3.8)
2023-04-08 23:25:21 +0000merijn(~merijn@86-86-29-250.fixed.kpn.net)
2023-04-08 23:33:24 +0000bratwurst(~dfadsva@2604:3d09:207f:f650::708a) (Quit: Leaving)
2023-04-08 23:43:39 +0000hiredman(~hiredman@frontier1.downey.family) (Quit: Lost terminal)
2023-04-08 23:43:51 +0000gurkenglas(~gurkengla@dynamic-046-114-183-239.46.114.pool.telefonica.de) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2023-04-08 23:45:52 +0000czy(~user@host-140-25.ilcub310.champaign.il.us.clients.pavlovmedia.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2023-04-08 23:48:16 +0000eggplantade(~Eggplanta@104-55-37-220.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
2023-04-08 23:51:30 +0000lbseale(~quassel@user/ep1ctetus)
2023-04-08 23:52:19 +0000nate1(~nate@98.45.169.16)
2023-04-08 23:55:03 +0000szkl(uid110435@id-110435.uxbridge.irccloud.com) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2023-04-08 23:55:55 +0000heraldo(~heraldo@user/heraldo)
2023-04-08 23:56:59 +0000freeside(~mengwong@103.252.202.85)
2023-04-08 23:57:43 +0000nate1(~nate@98.45.169.16) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2023-04-08 23:59:01 +0000Lord_of_Life(~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)