IRCBrowse

2023/04/07

2023-04-07 00:04:59 +0200merijn(~merijn@86-86-29-250.fixed.kpn.net) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2023-04-07 00:15:37 +0200skigrills a shish kabob for juri_
2023-04-07 00:23:57 +0200shriekingnoise(~shrieking@186.137.175.87)
2023-04-07 00:26:27 +0200__monty__(~toonn@user/toonn) (Quit: leaving)
2023-04-07 00:39:59 +0200shapr(~user@c-68-35-51-250.hsd1.al.comcast.net)
2023-04-07 00:41:59 +0200Kuttenbrunzer(~Kuttenbru@2a02:8108:8b80:1d48::a37e) (Quit: Where is it)
2023-04-07 00:43:33 +0200todi(~snuckls@p5dca57c0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2023-04-07 00:50:35 +0200MajorBiscuit(~MajorBisc@2001:1c00:2408:a400:7f99:b6d8:c8b8:dc05) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2023-04-07 00:57:14 +0200mechap(~mechap@user/mechap) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2023-04-07 00:59:27 +0200mechap(~mechap@user/mechap)
2023-04-07 00:59:48 +0200 <juri_> all veggies, please. :)
2023-04-07 01:00:01 +0200freeside(~mengwong@103.252.202.85)
2023-04-07 01:00:52 +0200merijn(~merijn@86-86-29-250.fixed.kpn.net)
2023-04-07 01:02:03 +0200 <tusko> tomsmeding, I was trying to use lambdabot in private chat but had some trouble. I don't know all the operators >, @, : etc but I chatted with lambdabot for a while and figured just a little bit out
2023-04-07 01:04:32 +0200freeside(~mengwong@103.252.202.85) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2023-04-07 01:04:53 +0200 <geekosaur> https://github.com/geekosaur/lambdabot/blob/command-doc/doc/commands.md
2023-04-07 01:05:27 +0200 <tusko> -/\_ many blessings kind stranger
2023-04-07 01:06:04 +0200bitdex(~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex)
2023-04-07 01:06:55 +0200wootehfoot(~wootehfoo@user/wootehfoot) (Quit: Leaving)
2023-04-07 01:06:57 +0200mauke_(~mauke@user/mauke)
2023-04-07 01:09:06 +0200mauke(~mauke@user/mauke) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2023-04-07 01:09:07 +0200mauke_mauke
2023-04-07 01:10:10 +0200xff0x(~xff0x@ai098135.d.east.v6connect.net) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2023-04-07 01:10:55 +0200xff0x(~xff0x@178.255.149.135)
2023-04-07 01:11:52 +0200mechap_(~mechap@user/mechap)
2023-04-07 01:12:50 +0200sammelweis(~quassel@2601:401:8200:2d4c:bd9:d04c:7f69:eb10) (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2023-04-07 01:13:57 +0200sammelweis(~quassel@2601:401:8200:2d4c:bd9:d04c:7f69:eb10)
2023-04-07 01:14:18 +0200APic(apic@apic.name)
2023-04-07 01:14:28 +0200 <ski> nw, juri_, how about some plantain, batate, tamarillo, taro, salak ?
2023-04-07 01:14:51 +0200mechap(~mechap@user/mechap) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2023-04-07 01:22:17 +0200nate1(~nate@98.45.169.16)
2023-04-07 01:26:07 +0200xff0x(~xff0x@178.255.149.135) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2023-04-07 01:26:37 +0200Tuplanolla(~Tuplanoll@91-159-68-236.elisa-laajakaista.fi) (Quit: Leaving.)
2023-04-07 01:27:40 +0200nate1(~nate@98.45.169.16) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2023-04-07 01:28:08 +0200xff0x(~xff0x@2405:6580:b080:900:875d:6d45:375d:580d)
2023-04-07 01:31:44 +0200andrewboltachev(~andrey@178.141.217.5) (Quit: Leaving.)
2023-04-07 01:32:11 +0200zeenk(~zeenk@2a02:2f04:a307:2300::7fe) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2023-04-07 01:33:41 +0200 <tusko> tu comes batata?
2023-04-07 01:33:46 +0200dipper_(~dipper@203.168.11.78)
2023-04-07 01:35:18 +0200merijn(~merijn@86-86-29-250.fixed.kpn.net) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2023-04-07 01:36:32 +0200acidjnk(~acidjnk@p200300d6e715c456dce25f8032f84f0b.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2023-04-07 01:39:09 +0200freeside(~mengwong@103.252.202.85)
2023-04-07 01:40:26 +0200AlexNoo(~AlexNoo@94.233.240.143) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2023-04-07 01:40:48 +0200ph88(~ph88@91.66.101.83) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2023-04-07 01:40:50 +0200AlexNoo(~AlexNoo@94.233.240.143)
2023-04-07 01:44:00 +0200freeside(~mengwong@103.252.202.85) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2023-04-07 01:51:51 +0200czy(~user@host-140-25.ilcub310.champaign.il.us.clients.pavlovmedia.net)
2023-04-07 01:56:58 +0200Midjak(~Midjak@82.66.147.146) (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2023-04-07 01:57:19 +0200Lord_of_Life(~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2023-04-07 01:58:58 +0200Lord_of_Life(~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915)
2023-04-07 02:01:01 +0200spacenautx(~spacenaut@user/spacenautx) (Quit: WeeChat 3.8)
2023-04-07 02:01:15 +0200euandreh(~Thunderbi@189.6.18.7) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2023-04-07 02:15:10 +0200Guest9629(~talismani@2601:200:c000:f7a0::fb70)
2023-04-07 02:18:10 +0200segfaultfizzbuzz(~segfaultf@108.211.201.53) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2023-04-07 02:22:33 +0200Athas(athas@sigkill.dk) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2023-04-07 02:24:46 +0200chanceyan(~chanceyan@user/chanceyan)
2023-04-07 02:31:24 +0200merijn(~merijn@86-86-29-250.fixed.kpn.net)
2023-04-07 02:39:50 +0200sammelweis(~quassel@2601:401:8200:2d4c:bd9:d04c:7f69:eb10) (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2023-04-07 02:42:32 +0200mikess(~sam@user/mikess) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2023-04-07 02:47:15 +0200lisbeths(uid135845@id-135845.lymington.irccloud.com)
2023-04-07 02:49:40 +0200mikess(~sam@user/mikess)
2023-04-07 02:51:33 +0200wroathe(~wroathe@207-153-38-140.fttp.usinternet.com)
2023-04-07 02:51:33 +0200wroathe(~wroathe@207-153-38-140.fttp.usinternet.com) (Changing host)
2023-04-07 02:51:33 +0200wroathe(~wroathe@user/wroathe)
2023-04-07 02:53:52 +0200perrierjouet(~perrier-j@modemcable048.127-56-74.mc.videotron.ca) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2023-04-07 02:56:30 +0200freeside(~mengwong@103.252.202.85)
2023-04-07 03:01:20 +0200freeside(~mengwong@103.252.202.85) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2023-04-07 03:01:55 +0200sammelweis(~quassel@2601:401:8200:2d4c:bd9:d04c:7f69:eb10)
2023-04-07 03:03:22 +0200euandreh(~Thunderbi@189.6.18.7)
2023-04-07 03:05:49 +0200merijn(~merijn@86-86-29-250.fixed.kpn.net) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2023-04-07 03:11:46 +0200machinedgod(~machinedg@d198-53-218-113.abhsia.telus.net)
2023-04-07 03:15:14 +0200sammelweis(~quassel@2601:401:8200:2d4c:bd9:d04c:7f69:eb10) (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2023-04-07 03:16:42 +0200sammelweis(~quassel@2601:401:8200:2d4c:bd9:d04c:7f69:eb10)
2023-04-07 03:18:30 +0200gmg(~user@user/gehmehgeh)
2023-04-07 03:18:54 +0200eggplantade(~Eggplanta@104-55-37-220.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
2023-04-07 03:21:29 +0200gehmehgeh(~user@user/gehmehgeh) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2023-04-07 03:23:20 +0200freeside(~mengwong@103.252.202.85)
2023-04-07 03:23:32 +0200eggplantade(~Eggplanta@104-55-37-220.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2023-04-07 03:26:05 +0200sammelweis(~quassel@2601:401:8200:2d4c:bd9:d04c:7f69:eb10) (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2023-04-07 03:28:45 +0200freeside(~mengwong@103.252.202.85) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2023-04-07 03:33:52 +0200 <jackdk> integral: That's it! Thanks.
2023-04-07 03:36:23 +0200waleee(~waleee@2001:9b0:21c:4000:5bf9:6515:c030:57b7) (Quit: uppdattar datta)
2023-04-07 03:37:37 +0200waleee(~waleee@2001:9b0:21c:4000:5bf9:6515:c030:57b7)
2023-04-07 03:37:53 +0200freeside(~mengwong@103.252.202.85)
2023-04-07 03:41:37 +0200sammelweis(~quassel@2601:401:8200:2d4c:bd9:d04c:7f69:eb10)
2023-04-07 03:42:39 +0200freeside(~mengwong@103.252.202.85) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2023-04-07 03:46:31 +0200segfaultfizzbuzz(~segfaultf@108.211.201.53)
2023-04-07 03:48:06 +0200sammelweis(~quassel@2601:401:8200:2d4c:bd9:d04c:7f69:eb10) (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2023-04-07 03:52:43 +0200xff0x(~xff0x@2405:6580:b080:900:875d:6d45:375d:580d) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2023-04-07 03:53:15 +0200segfaultfizzbuzz(~segfaultf@108.211.201.53) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2023-04-07 03:54:22 +0200sammelweis(~quassel@2601:401:8200:2d4c:bd9:d04c:7f69:eb10)
2023-04-07 03:57:31 +0200Square(~Square4@user/square) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2023-04-07 04:00:00 +0200waleee(~waleee@2001:9b0:21c:4000:5bf9:6515:c030:57b7) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2023-04-07 04:00:36 +0200sammelweis(~quassel@2601:401:8200:2d4c:bd9:d04c:7f69:eb10) (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2023-04-07 04:02:12 +0200merijn(~merijn@86-86-29-250.fixed.kpn.net)
2023-04-07 04:04:38 +0200sammelweis(~quassel@2601:401:8200:2d4c:bd9:d04c:7f69:eb10)
2023-04-07 04:05:15 +0200FinnElija(~finn_elij@user/finn-elija/x-0085643) (Killed (NickServ (Forcing logout FinnElija -> finn_elija)))
2023-04-07 04:05:15 +0200finn_elija(~finn_elij@user/finn-elija/x-0085643)
2023-04-07 04:05:15 +0200finn_elijaFinnElija
2023-04-07 04:20:48 +0200td_(~td@i5387092B.versanet.de) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2023-04-07 04:20:52 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@146.70.166.132)
2023-04-07 04:21:34 +0200vglfr(~vglfr@88.155.38.111) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2023-04-07 04:22:27 +0200td_(~td@i53870919.versanet.de)
2023-04-07 04:23:05 +0200nate1(~nate@98.45.169.16)
2023-04-07 04:28:07 +0200nate1(~nate@98.45.169.16) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2023-04-07 04:28:59 +0200sammelweis(~quassel@2601:401:8200:2d4c:bd9:d04c:7f69:eb10) (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2023-04-07 04:32:11 +0200segfaultfizzbuzz(~segfaultf@108.211.201.53)
2023-04-07 04:32:46 +0200sammelweis(~quassel@2601:401:8200:2d4c:bd9:d04c:7f69:eb10)
2023-04-07 04:36:33 +0200merijn(~merijn@86-86-29-250.fixed.kpn.net) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2023-04-07 04:38:12 +0200sammelweis(~quassel@2601:401:8200:2d4c:bd9:d04c:7f69:eb10) (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2023-04-07 04:38:33 +0200vglfr(~vglfr@88.155.38.111)
2023-04-07 04:39:23 +0200segfaultfizzbuzz(~segfaultf@108.211.201.53) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2023-04-07 04:40:11 +0200machinedgod(~machinedg@d198-53-218-113.abhsia.telus.net) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2023-04-07 04:41:02 +0200xff0x(~xff0x@125x103x176x34.ap125.ftth.ucom.ne.jp)
2023-04-07 04:45:03 +0200sammelweis(~quassel@2601:401:8200:2d4c:bd9:d04c:7f69:eb10)
2023-04-07 04:47:26 +0200nate1(~nate@98.45.169.16)
2023-04-07 04:48:25 +0200dipper_(~dipper@203.168.11.78) (Remote host closed the connection)
2023-04-07 04:57:24 +0200sammelweis(~quassel@2601:401:8200:2d4c:bd9:d04c:7f69:eb10) (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2023-04-07 04:58:58 +0200sammelweis(~quassel@2601:401:8200:2d4c:bd9:d04c:7f69:eb10)
2023-04-07 05:00:30 +0200freeside(~mengwong@103.252.202.85)
2023-04-07 05:03:52 +0200sammelweis(~quassel@2601:401:8200:2d4c:bd9:d04c:7f69:eb10) (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2023-04-07 05:04:12 +0200eggplantade(~Eggplanta@104-55-37-220.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
2023-04-07 05:06:20 +0200sammelweis(~quassel@2601:401:8200:2d4c:bd9:d04c:7f69:eb10)
2023-04-07 05:09:30 +0200freeside(~mengwong@103.252.202.85) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2023-04-07 05:14:08 +0200srk(~sorki@user/srk) (Remote host closed the connection)
2023-04-07 05:14:27 +0200srk(~sorki@user/srk)
2023-04-07 05:21:15 +0200npmania(~Thunderbi@138.199.21.242) (Remote host closed the connection)
2023-04-07 05:30:42 +0200sammelweis(~quassel@2601:401:8200:2d4c:bd9:d04c:7f69:eb10) (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2023-04-07 05:32:15 +0200sammelweis(~quassel@2601:401:8200:2d4c:bd9:d04c:7f69:eb10)
2023-04-07 05:32:30 +0200merijn(~merijn@86-86-29-250.fixed.kpn.net)
2023-04-07 05:34:11 +0200mtjm(~mutantmel@2604:a880:2:d0::208b:d001) (Remote host closed the connection)
2023-04-07 05:35:04 +0200mtjm(~mutantmel@2604:a880:2:d0::208b:d001)
2023-04-07 05:35:28 +0200mei(~mei@user/mei) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2023-04-07 05:37:20 +0200freeside(~mengwong@103.252.202.85)
2023-04-07 05:38:21 +0200slack1256(~slack1256@186.11.84.67)
2023-04-07 05:40:48 +0200wroathe(~wroathe@user/wroathe) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2023-04-07 05:42:07 +0200sammelweis(~quassel@2601:401:8200:2d4c:bd9:d04c:7f69:eb10) (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2023-04-07 05:42:17 +0200freeside(~mengwong@103.252.202.85) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2023-04-07 05:48:58 +0200nate1(~nate@98.45.169.16) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2023-04-07 05:49:46 +0200sammelweis(~quassel@2601:401:8200:2d4c:bd9:d04c:7f69:eb10)
2023-04-07 05:52:50 +0200npmania(~Thunderbi@121.128.226.31)
2023-04-07 05:54:05 +0200sammelweis(~quassel@2601:401:8200:2d4c:bd9:d04c:7f69:eb10) (Client Quit)
2023-04-07 05:55:32 +0200sammelweis(~quassel@2601:401:8200:2d4c:bd9:d04c:7f69:eb10)
2023-04-07 06:02:18 +0200sammelweis(~quassel@2601:401:8200:2d4c:bd9:d04c:7f69:eb10) (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2023-04-07 06:06:56 +0200merijn(~merijn@86-86-29-250.fixed.kpn.net) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2023-04-07 06:07:15 +0200freeside(~mengwong@103.252.202.85)
2023-04-07 06:07:26 +0200systemhalted(~systemhal@130.51.137.77)
2023-04-07 06:08:13 +0200Guest9629(~talismani@2601:200:c000:f7a0::fb70) (Remote host closed the connection)
2023-04-07 06:09:27 +0200talismanick(~talismani@2601:200:c000:f7a0::fb70)
2023-04-07 06:10:02 +0200systemhalted(~systemhal@130.51.137.77) (Remote host closed the connection)
2023-04-07 06:10:46 +0200barzo(~hd@31.223.42.54)
2023-04-07 06:11:44 +0200freeside(~mengwong@103.252.202.85) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2023-04-07 06:14:06 +0200[itchyjunk](~itchyjunk@user/itchyjunk/x-7353470) (Remote host closed the connection)
2023-04-07 06:16:33 +0200Fischmiep(~Fischmiep@user/Fischmiep) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2023-04-07 06:24:49 +0200geekosaur(~geekosaur@xmonad/geekosaur) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2023-04-07 06:25:02 +0200freeside(~mengwong@103.252.202.85)
2023-04-07 06:29:50 +0200geekosaur(~geekosaur@xmonad/geekosaur)
2023-04-07 06:39:10 +0200sammelweis(~quassel@2601:401:8200:2d4c:bd9:d04c:7f69:eb10)
2023-04-07 06:39:28 +0200freeside(~mengwong@103.252.202.85) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2023-04-07 06:39:47 +0200freeside(~mengwong@103.252.202.85)
2023-04-07 06:43:50 +0200sammelweis(~quassel@2601:401:8200:2d4c:bd9:d04c:7f69:eb10) (Client Quit)
2023-04-07 06:44:34 +0200freeside(~mengwong@103.252.202.85) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2023-04-07 06:47:58 +0200mechap_(~mechap@user/mechap) (Quit: WeeChat 3.8)
2023-04-07 06:49:19 +0200sammelweis(~quassel@2601:401:8200:2d4c:bd9:d04c:7f69:eb10)
2023-04-07 06:50:17 +0200freeside(~mengwong@103.252.202.85)
2023-04-07 06:52:59 +0200gmg(~user@user/gehmehgeh) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2023-04-07 06:53:36 +0200sammelweis(~quassel@2601:401:8200:2d4c:bd9:d04c:7f69:eb10) (Client Quit)
2023-04-07 06:54:35 +0200freeside(~mengwong@103.252.202.85) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2023-04-07 06:56:41 +0200gmg(~user@user/gehmehgeh)
2023-04-07 06:57:12 +0200pyook(~puke@user/puke) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2023-04-07 06:57:27 +0200pyook(~puke@user/puke)
2023-04-07 07:03:02 +0200merijn(~merijn@86-86-29-250.fixed.kpn.net)
2023-04-07 07:03:08 +0200freeside(~mengwong@103.252.202.85)
2023-04-07 07:04:30 +0200sammelweis(~quassel@2601:401:8200:2d4c:bd9:d04c:7f69:eb10)
2023-04-07 07:07:32 +0200freeside(~mengwong@103.252.202.85) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2023-04-07 07:15:47 +0200sammelweis(~quassel@2601:401:8200:2d4c:bd9:d04c:7f69:eb10) (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2023-04-07 07:23:31 +0200sammelweis(~quassel@2601:401:8200:2d4c:bd9:d04c:7f69:eb10)
2023-04-07 07:32:44 +0200mei(~mei@user/mei)
2023-04-07 07:33:54 +0200sammelweis(~quassel@2601:401:8200:2d4c:bd9:d04c:7f69:eb10) (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2023-04-07 07:37:14 +0200merijn(~merijn@86-86-29-250.fixed.kpn.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2023-04-07 07:38:17 +0200aliosablack(~chomwitt@2a02:587:7a0e:ae00:1ac0:4dff:fedb:a3f1)
2023-04-07 07:39:53 +0200sammelweis(~quassel@2601:401:8200:2d4c:bd9:d04c:7f69:eb10)
2023-04-07 07:42:17 +0200 <slack1256> Is there a type family that maps lifted types to their unlifted counterpart defined somewhere?
2023-04-07 07:42:31 +0200vglfr(~vglfr@88.155.38.111) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2023-04-07 07:44:39 +0200segfaultfizzbuzz(~segfaultf@108.211.201.53)
2023-04-07 07:45:43 +0200nate1(~nate@98.45.169.16)
2023-04-07 07:47:21 +0200jakalx(~jakalx@base.jakalx.net)
2023-04-07 07:48:20 +0200coot(~coot@2a02:a310:e241:1b00:ec1a:e9df:79ac:66ba)
2023-04-07 07:49:19 +0200segfaultfizzbuzz(~segfaultf@108.211.201.53) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2023-04-07 07:50:11 +0200nate1(~nate@98.45.169.16) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
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2023-04-07 08:09:40 +0200freeside(~mengwong@103.252.202.85) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2023-04-07 08:09:54 +0200 <talismanick> How do I turn off -Wtype-defaults in GHCi?
2023-04-07 08:10:22 +0200 <slack1256> talismanick: :set -Wno-type-defaults
2023-04-07 08:10:33 +0200 <slack1256> That -Wno is usual for warning, options, etc.
2023-04-07 08:10:41 +0200 <talismanick> slack1256: thanks!
2023-04-07 08:12:05 +0200barzo(~hd@31.223.42.54) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2023-04-07 09:28:02 +0200kuribas(~user@ptr-17d51enbvbynpjq97pe.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be)
2023-04-07 09:28:43 +0200 <kuribas> Hi, would you say that smart constructors are a way of making illegal states irrepresentable?
2023-04-07 09:29:05 +0200 <kuribas> I think for example the haskell Set library, which hides the fact that it's backed by a binary tree.
2023-04-07 09:29:21 +0200 <bontaq> sure that's a part of it kuribas
2023-04-07 09:29:48 +0200 <kuribas> And it also depends on Ord of being lawful.
2023-04-07 09:32:28 +0200freeside(~mengwong@103.252.202.85)
2023-04-07 09:33:12 +0200 <tomsmeding> kuribas: to an extent, if you view the full API as some abstract sort of data structure
2023-04-07 09:33:50 +0200 <tomsmeding> because you can also design the API to such a data structure in a way that does _not_ preserve invariants
2023-04-07 09:33:58 +0200 <tomsmeding> but it's not the most compelling example
2023-04-07 09:34:20 +0200 <kuribas> tomsmeding: yeah, I mean considering the whole API.
2023-04-07 09:34:29 +0200 <bontaq> in the book domain modeling made functional (an F# book) they lean heavy on smart constructors, everything transitions through like Untrusted -> Trusted data types. Like EnteredPostalCode -> PostalCode
2023-04-07 09:34:30 +0200 <tomsmeding> more compelling would be transforming (correct :: Bool, result :: a, error :: b) to Either a b
2023-04-07 09:34:40 +0200merijn(~merijn@86-86-29-250.fixed.kpn.net)
2023-04-07 09:34:46 +0200ubert(~Thunderbi@p548c88d5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2023-04-07 09:36:17 +0200 <kuribas> tomsmeding: that doesn't seem implementable?
2023-04-07 09:36:25 +0200 <kuribas> unless you put bottom in `a`.
2023-04-07 09:36:36 +0200jakalx(~jakalx@base.jakalx.net)
2023-04-07 09:36:40 +0200 <tomsmeding> kuribas: the triple or the Either version?
2023-04-07 09:36:43 +0200 <kuribas> triple
2023-04-07 09:36:55 +0200 <kuribas> How do you represent Left err?
2023-04-07 09:36:57 +0200 <tomsmeding> I mean, this is standard fare for classic OO languages without sum types
2023-04-07 09:37:04 +0200 <tomsmeding> (false, 0, err)
2023-04-07 09:37:06 +0200 <kuribas> ah right
2023-04-07 09:37:16 +0200 <kuribas> like C union
2023-04-07 09:37:16 +0200 <tomsmeding> people do this everywhere every day
2023-04-07 09:37:27 +0200 <tomsmeding> 'a' is going to be some struct with a bunch of fields
2023-04-07 09:37:28 +0200ubert(~Thunderbi@p548c84d6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2023-04-07 09:37:30 +0200 <kuribas> where you use NULL as bottom I suppose.
2023-04-07 09:37:39 +0200 <kenran> or Go's horrible error handling...
2023-04-07 09:37:41 +0200 <tomsmeding> and inductively, all such types have some sort of zero value
2023-04-07 09:37:43 +0200 <tomsmeding> or NULL
2023-04-07 09:38:21 +0200 <tomsmeding> it's only when you introduce non-trivial sum types (i.e. that aren't just an enum) that it becomes difficult to pinpoint a real zero value, but even there there will be plenty of people who say "just pick the first constructor who cares"
2023-04-07 09:39:12 +0200freeside(~mengwong@103.252.202.85) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2023-04-07 09:39:25 +0200 <tomsmeding> kuribas: don't forget that not initialising a field in e.g. C++ just leaves it in whatever state it was before :p
2023-04-07 09:39:27 +0200 <tomsmeding> it's not like haskell
2023-04-07 09:40:32 +0200freeside(~mengwong@103.252.202.85)
2023-04-07 09:40:47 +0200Sgeo(~Sgeo@user/sgeo) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2023-04-07 09:43:59 +0200 <bontaq> maybe I am misunderstanding, but you can definitely implement (correct :: Bool, result :: a, error :: b) -> Either a b?
2023-04-07 09:45:14 +0200 <carbolymer> what would be (false, something, something) ?
2023-04-07 09:46:42 +0200 <bontaq> idk, check (valid, result, error) = if valid then Left result else Right error
2023-04-07 09:46:57 +0200 <kuribas> bontaq: but not the reverse
2023-04-07 09:47:18 +0200 <kuribas> anyway, how does this relate to "make illegal states irrepresentable"?
2023-04-07 09:48:15 +0200 <bontaq> kuribas: what do you mean the reverse? Either a b -> (valid, result, error) ?
2023-04-07 09:48:19 +0200 <kuribas> yeah
2023-04-07 09:48:24 +0200Athas(athas@2a01:7c8:aaac:1cf:940d:5196:88dd:7cc9)
2023-04-07 09:50:02 +0200 <bontaq> ohhh neat
2023-04-07 09:51:44 +0200_ht(~Thunderbi@28-52-174-82.ftth.glasoperator.nl)
2023-04-07 09:53:44 +0200 <carbolymer> kuribas: (true, something, something) is illegal, so to make it irrepresentable - use Either?
2023-04-07 09:53:46 +0200acidjnk(~acidjnk@p200300d6e715c406d9e68a9a5ded2776.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2023-04-07 09:54:40 +0200freeside(~mengwong@103.252.202.85) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2023-04-07 09:55:50 +0200 <tomsmeding> ^
2023-04-07 09:56:13 +0200 <tomsmeding> the point is to make _illegal states_, values of your data structure that actually violate certain invariants, _not representable_
2023-04-07 09:56:26 +0200 <tomsmeding> by designing your data structure so that they are impossible by construction
2023-04-07 09:56:44 +0200machinedgod(~machinedg@d198-53-218-113.abhsia.telus.net)
2023-04-07 09:57:02 +0200 <tomsmeding> I guess a clearer version would be (Bool, Maybe a, Maybe b), modelling nullability as Maybe
2023-04-07 09:57:11 +0200 <tomsmeding> where (True, Just _, Just _) is invalid
2023-04-07 09:57:16 +0200NiceBird(~NiceBird@185.133.111.196)
2023-04-07 09:59:02 +0200vglfr(~vglfr@88.155.38.77)
2023-04-07 09:59:34 +0200akegalj(~akegalj@141-136-169-197.dsl.iskon.hr)
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2023-04-07 10:12:07 +0200andrewboltachev(~andrey@178.141.217.5)
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2023-04-07 10:19:56 +0200freeside(~mengwong@103.252.202.85)
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2023-04-07 10:25:53 +0200gurkenglas(~gurkengla@dynamic-046-114-181-142.46.114.pool.telefonica.de)
2023-04-07 10:27:50 +0200codaraxis__(~codaraxis@user/codaraxis)
2023-04-07 10:28:38 +0200Tuplanolla(~Tuplanoll@91-159-68-236.elisa-laajakaista.fi)
2023-04-07 10:31:11 +0200drdo(~drdo@bl7-76-103.dsl.telepac.pt) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2023-04-07 10:31:32 +0200codaraxis(~codaraxis@user/codaraxis) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2023-04-07 10:32:48 +0200 <bontaq> say, if you were building a web framework, do you think giving people id' or idName is less annoying to add an id attribute to things?
2023-04-07 10:34:22 +0200Maeda(~Maeda@91-161-10-149.subs.proxad.net)
2023-04-07 10:35:41 +0200 <probie> Abuse pattern synonyms and view patterns to give them `ID` :p
2023-04-07 10:35:45 +0200werneta(~werneta@70-142-214-115.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2023-04-07 10:36:39 +0200 <bontaq> ;_;
2023-04-07 10:37:44 +0200werneta(~werneta@70-142-214-115.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net)
2023-04-07 10:39:27 +0200 <bontaq> I am just trying to make some nice pasta you give me this
2023-04-07 10:40:32 +0200merijn(~merijn@86-86-29-250.fixed.kpn.net) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2023-04-07 10:41:11 +0200freeside(~mengwong@103.252.202.85)
2023-04-07 10:41:27 +0200drdo(~drdo@bl7-76-103.dsl.telepac.pt)
2023-04-07 10:47:32 +0200freeside(~mengwong@103.252.202.85) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2023-04-07 10:53:27 +0200 <int-e> bontaq: yeah, don't steal my identity (function).
2023-04-07 10:56:48 +0200 <bontaq> as much as I would love to steal your tasty id, I agree it's rude. maybe idAttr works?
2023-04-07 10:56:54 +0200todi(~snuckls@p5dca57c0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2023-04-07 11:01:05 +0200mmhat(~mmh@p200300f1c7106ed3ee086bfffe095315.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
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2023-04-07 11:03:47 +0200eggplantade(~Eggplanta@2600:1700:38c5:d800:2c24:c958:e9eb:d096)
2023-04-07 11:05:51 +0200 <int-e> bontaq: Hah I almost suggested that and then decided not to bikeshed.
2023-04-07 11:06:28 +0200chomwitt(~chomwitt@2a02:587:7a0e:ae00:1ac0:4dff:fedb:a3f1) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2023-04-07 11:06:46 +0200 <carbolymer> what if bikes get wet
2023-04-07 11:07:27 +0200 <int-e> well, rust is popular these days
2023-04-07 11:08:20 +0200 <int-e> carbolymer: does that happen if you paint the bikeshed with watercolors?
2023-04-07 11:08:25 +0200eggplantade(~Eggplanta@2600:1700:38c5:d800:2c24:c958:e9eb:d096) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2023-04-07 11:12:35 +0200 <bontaq> oh no I'm explicitly asking for bike shedding int-e, just trying to nail down what interface would be nice to people
2023-04-07 11:12:36 +0200 <carbolymer> int-e: you will end up bikeshedding with rust
2023-04-07 11:13:31 +0200codaraxis(~codaraxis@user/codaraxis)
2023-04-07 11:14:02 +0200 <bontaq> idAttr is pretty good since then I can use it for the rest (classAttr, typeAttr, nameAttr, etc) but it does take extra key presses
2023-04-07 11:14:28 +0200Athas(athas@2a01:7c8:aaac:1cf:940d:5196:88dd:7cc9) (Quit: ZNC 1.8.2 - https://znc.in)
2023-04-07 11:14:37 +0200Athas(athas@sigkill.dk)
2023-04-07 11:15:00 +0200 <tomsmeding> I'd go for either id' or idAttr yeah
2023-04-07 11:15:05 +0200 <tomsmeding> idName is confusing
2023-04-07 11:15:27 +0200 <tomsmeding> the other option is `attr #id` using OverloadedLabels, but that's overkill
2023-04-07 11:15:36 +0200 <int-e> bontaq: you can be evil and use the original alphabet: ιδ ;-)
2023-04-07 11:15:48 +0200codaraxis__(~codaraxis@user/codaraxis) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2023-04-07 11:16:08 +0200freeside(~mengwong@103.252.202.85)
2023-04-07 11:17:00 +0200 <carbolymer> RecordDotSyntax + NoFieldSelectors maybe?
2023-04-07 11:17:09 +0200 <int-e> I guess I'd go with either appending Attr to every attribute or with id'.
2023-04-07 11:18:07 +0200 <bontaq> int-e: the perfect beginner's haskell library (you must learn chinese now)
2023-04-07 11:19:00 +0200 <bontaq> id', type', class', name' -- I do lean a little towards those because it's less to type
2023-04-07 11:19:09 +0200 <int-e> To be clear I based the word "original" on the etymology of the word "alphabet".
2023-04-07 11:19:16 +0200 <int-e> Not on who invented scripture.
2023-04-07 11:19:49 +0200mikess(~sam@user/mikess) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2023-04-07 11:20:16 +0200 <tomsmeding> on the other hand, 'identity' etymologically traces back to Latin and further back to italic languages, not to greek
2023-04-07 11:20:43 +0200freeside(~mengwong@103.252.202.85) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2023-04-07 11:22:42 +0200 <int-e> so it was a perfect choice for making a mess
2023-04-07 11:22:46 +0200 <int-e> I'm okay with that
2023-04-07 11:31:10 +0200califax(~califax@user/califx) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2023-04-07 11:37:20 +0200merijn(~merijn@86-86-29-250.fixed.kpn.net)
2023-04-07 11:43:07 +0200 <bontaq> hmm carbolymer, like it could be "attr.id" ? that's an interesting idea
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2023-04-07 12:39:17 +0200sammelweis(~quassel@2601:401:8200:2d4c:bd9:d04c:7f69:eb10)
2023-04-07 12:42:28 +0200jakalx(~jakalx@base.jakalx.net) ()
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2023-04-07 15:13:43 +0200 <ski> kuribas : smart constructors are often used for encoding subset types
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2023-04-07 18:13:57 +0200gensyst(~gensyst@user/gensyst)
2023-04-07 18:14:08 +0200 <gensyst> Is runhaskell a part of every standard Haskell installation?
2023-04-07 18:14:15 +0200 <gensyst> What does it come with? With GHC?
2023-04-07 18:15:38 +0200 <geekosaur> it comes with ghc, it used to come with hugs, it used to come with nhc98
2023-04-07 18:15:48 +0200freeside(~mengwong@103.252.202.85)
2023-04-07 18:19:41 +0200 <int-e> Hmm. Debian still packages hugs? Fun!
2023-04-07 18:20:40 +0200freeside(~mengwong@103.252.202.85) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2023-04-07 18:20:47 +0200 <int-e> (I checked where /usr/bin/runhaskell points and found /etc/alternatives/runhaskell and wondered whether that's a leftover from the past or still actually in use for alternatives)
2023-04-07 18:21:11 +0200 <Hecate> gensyst: it should be bundled with a binary distribution of GHC yes
2023-04-07 18:21:29 +0200 <int-e> (The hugs is old, of course; from 2006.)
2023-04-07 18:21:58 +0200AlexZenon(~alzenon@178.34.162.18)
2023-04-07 18:22:11 +0200 <sm> nice! more haskell compilers!
2023-04-07 18:24:06 +0200eggplantade(~Eggplanta@2600:1700:38c5:d800:2c24:c958:e9eb:d096)
2023-04-07 18:25:26 +0200glguy(~glguy@libera/staff-emeritus/glguy) (Quit: Quit)
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2023-04-07 18:27:46 +0200 <geekosaur[m]> Hugs was an interpreter
2023-04-07 18:29:09 +0200 <gensyst> Has anyone here written integration tests for their Cabal project that compiles (with "cabal build") and runs ("cabal exec") the project itself?
2023-04-07 18:29:14 +0200 <gensyst> It works fine normally (outside Nix).
2023-04-07 18:29:18 +0200 <gensyst> But inside Nix, it's horror.
2023-04-07 18:29:22 +0200 <gensyst> Any experiences here?
2023-04-07 18:31:18 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@146.70.166.132) (Quit: WeeChat 3.8)
2023-04-07 18:32:48 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@146.70.166.132)
2023-04-07 18:36:59 +0200hugo(znc@verdigris.lysator.liu.se) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2023-04-07 18:37:09 +0200tzh(~tzh@c-24-21-73-154.hsd1.or.comcast.net)
2023-04-07 18:39:41 +0200 <Hecate> I don't use nix, really frees up a lot of cycles :D
2023-04-07 18:40:49 +0200hugo(znc@verdigris.lysator.liu.se)
2023-04-07 18:42:35 +0200machinedgod(~machinedg@d198-53-218-113.abhsia.telus.net) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2023-04-07 18:42:38 +0200 <jean-paul[m]> gensyst: What's horrible about it exactly?
2023-04-07 18:43:18 +0200gnalzo(~gnalzo@2a01:e0a:498:fd50:fcc6:bb5d:489a:ce8c) (Quit: WeeChat 3.8)
2023-04-07 18:43:22 +0200 <gensyst> jean-paul[m], If I run "cabal exec ...", I get complaints about /homeless-shelter (user directory that doesn't exist).
2023-04-07 18:43:48 +0200 <gensyst> jean-paul[m], If I replace it with "runhaskell Setup.hs configure", "runhaskell Setup.hs build", I get complaints about GHC_PACKAGE_PATH
2023-04-07 18:43:58 +0200 <gensyst> I'm starting to think... maybe I shouldn't be doing this.
2023-04-07 18:44:03 +0200 <gensyst> Maybe I should just be calling "main" instead.
2023-04-07 18:44:06 +0200 <jean-paul[m]> What is the point of that command? Are you trying to build stuff? Run programs?
2023-04-07 18:44:39 +0200 <gensyst> jean-paul[m], the point is to test running the program (a few times with various arguments) and see if the results are as expected
2023-04-07 18:44:42 +0200 <gensyst> integration test
2023-04-07 18:45:09 +0200 <gensyst> BTW when I say run "cabal build", i mean: ultimately it gets run from within a nix-build
2023-04-07 18:45:13 +0200 <gensyst> "nix build" rather
2023-04-07 18:45:25 +0200 <gensyst> that's where those problem occur
2023-04-07 18:45:48 +0200 <jean-paul[m]> I guess if you are trying to do a build with the literal command "cabal build" inside a nix derivation, you're probably well off the beaten path. Most typically you would convert your cabal file to a nix expression with something like cabal2nix.
2023-04-07 18:47:23 +0200 <jean-paul[m]> Did you package up your Haskell with nix? Why is nix involved at all?
2023-04-07 18:47:26 +0200 <gensyst> jean-paul[m], the question is, what is normally done when people don't use Nix? Without Nix, everything was working fine. I.e., without Nix, when I ran "cabal test" to run the tests, it wasn't a problem when the tests themselves executed "cabal build", etc.
2023-04-07 18:47:34 +0200eggplantade(~Eggplanta@2600:1700:38c5:d800:2c24:c958:e9eb:d096) (Remote host closed the connection)
2023-04-07 18:47:37 +0200 <gensyst> jean-paul[m], yeah now i'm moving to nix :)
2023-04-07 18:47:47 +0200 <gensyst> the haskell project itself is now flake.nix
2023-04-07 18:49:01 +0200arthurvl(~arthurvl@2a02-a469-f5e2-1-83d2-ca43-57a2-dc81.fixed6.kpn.net) (Quit: WeeChat 3.0)
2023-04-07 18:49:02 +0200 <jean-paul[m]> I'd probably not worry a lot about how you do these things if you're not using Nix, if you're trying to make it work using Nix. Nix is a whole general build and integration system. You can make a lot of choices differently to great benefit when you have one of those just hanging around for free.
2023-04-07 18:49:43 +0200 <jean-paul[m]> So, I probably would not write integration tests for a Nix package that try to do builds themselves. Instead, just consume derivations that provide the things you needed built.
2023-04-07 18:50:27 +0200cheater(~Username@user/cheater) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2023-04-07 18:50:44 +0200 <gensyst> jean-paul[m], yeah but... what if the haskell package should be usable for ppl who don't have nix :)
2023-04-07 18:50:45 +0200 <jean-paul[m]> (but it's easy to just hand-wave such things in such broad terms)
2023-04-07 18:50:57 +0200 <gensyst> it's just me who happen to be using nix
2023-04-07 18:51:18 +0200 <jean-paul[m]> gensyst: Does "the haskell package" include "the ability to run the integration tests"?
2023-04-07 18:51:50 +0200 <gensyst> jean-paul[m], so far the test suite of the package itself has been running integration tests for the package itself.
2023-04-07 18:52:23 +0200 <jean-paul[m]> Sounds like "yes" I guess
2023-04-07 18:52:33 +0200jespada_(~jespada@cpc121308-nmal25-2-0-cust15.19-2.cable.virginm.net) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2023-04-07 18:52:49 +0200 <gensyst> yeah i suppose so
2023-04-07 18:52:51 +0200 <gensyst> :D
2023-04-07 18:52:56 +0200 <jean-paul[m]> I dunno, remind your team mates that nix can be installed on any Linux and also macOS? And who knows, maybe WSL.
2023-04-07 18:53:04 +0200 <gensyst> :D
2023-04-07 18:53:18 +0200 <jean-paul[m]> If you really want something to work "for nix" and "without nix" then I don't think there are options apart from "implement it twice".
2023-04-07 18:53:21 +0200 <gensyst> yeah ideally nix should be everywhere because its benefits are obvious
2023-04-07 18:54:17 +0200 <jean-paul[m]> I do have a project where I am slowly bring in more nix and it has one integration test that sets up some complex third-party dependencies
2023-04-07 18:54:39 +0200 <jean-paul[m]> The thing I am trying to do to that now is make it possible to signal to the integration test that it can just skip all of that work because someone did it already
2023-04-07 18:54:52 +0200 <jean-paul[m]> Then I can use nix to do it and run the test in the "skip your setup" mode
2023-04-07 18:54:56 +0200bitdex(~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex) (Quit: = "")
2023-04-07 18:55:11 +0200 <jean-paul[m]> But everyone else can keep using the slow, non-reproducible, failure-prone custom setup codepath
2023-04-07 18:55:14 +0200mei(~mei@user/mei) (Remote host closed the connection)
2023-04-07 18:55:41 +0200 <gensyst> jean-paul[m], this made me think of: "binary caches for tests? this test has been run. no need to run."
2023-04-07 18:56:01 +0200pavonia(~user@user/siracusa) (Quit: Bye!)
2023-04-07 18:56:11 +0200 <jean-paul[m]> So ... maybe something like that? Accept the "cabal build" outputs as a parameter somehow, and if you don't get them, the test can run "cabal build" but if it you do, skip it and use them.
2023-04-07 18:56:15 +0200myco(~myco@24-116-167-217.cpe.sparklight.net)
2023-04-07 18:56:56 +0200 <jean-paul[m]> yea I have some CI set up like that. it's amusing when the nix-based CI jobs have a cache hit and finish in 30 seconds while the other jobs have to spend 10 minutes re-doing everything. and fine as long as your test suite is deterministic. :)
2023-04-07 18:57:27 +0200 <jean-paul[m]> but I also have some CI set up where the tests are a flake app instead of a derivation, so you can really run them any time you want without cache considerations
2023-04-07 18:57:38 +0200mei(~mei@user/mei)
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2023-04-07 20:56:30 +0200 <whatsupdoc> Hoogle or ChatGPT?
2023-04-07 20:59:09 +0200freemanX(~user@203.117.163.130)
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2023-04-07 21:02:41 +0200 <sm> speaking of chatgpt.. I found this clarifying:
2023-04-07 21:02:53 +0200smuploaded an image: (199KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/matrix.org/TqOmIbDZUXqgAhLLyyCjiYwV/Screen%20Sho… >
2023-04-07 21:06:16 +0200 <sm> hmm, can I OCR that ? I can
2023-04-07 21:06:22 +0200 <sm> "Something that seems fundamental to me about ChatGPT, which gets lost over and over again: When you enter text into it, you're asking "What would a response to this sound like?"
2023-04-07 21:06:22 +0200 <sm> If you put in a scientific question, and it comes back with a response citing a non-existent paper with a plausible title, using a real journal name and an author name who's written things related to your question, it's not being tricky or telling lies or doing anything at all surprising! This is what a response to that question would sound like! It did the thing!
2023-04-07 21:06:22 +0200 <sm> But people keep wanting the "say something that sounds like an answer" machine to be doing something else, and believing it *is* doing something else.
2023-04-07 21:06:22 +0200 <sm> It's good at generating things that sound like responses to being told it was wrong, so people think that it's engaging in introspection or looking up more information or something, but it's not, it's only, ever, saying something that sounds like the next bit of the conversation.
2023-04-07 21:07:40 +0200freeside(~mengwong@103.252.202.85)
2023-04-07 21:09:02 +0200 <sm[i]_> hoogle on the other hand is for doing a precise deterministic search of names and type signatures in an up-to-date set of haskell packages
2023-04-07 21:10:44 +0200 <Adeon> sm: I follow the AI news and discussion in various places and I find tiring sometimes because discussion drowns in overhype or people not understanding the nuances how the AI really works making huge extrapolations in capability etc.
2023-04-07 21:10:56 +0200 <Adeon> gets hard to filter out actually remarkable product ideas or new research from noise
2023-04-07 21:12:02 +0200freeside(~mengwong@103.252.202.85) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2023-04-07 21:12:11 +0200 <sm> mastodon can be a pretty good filter (that's where I saw this)
2023-04-07 21:14:26 +0200 <sm> Adeon: are we at the point where it's practical for dev communities to train simpler mini-chatgpts to assist with their specific domains ?
2023-04-07 21:14:59 +0200 <sm> the haskell install/build AI ? the HLS support AI ? etc
2023-04-07 21:15:07 +0200 <Adeon> the best model I've managed to run locally is the vicuna-13B finetuned from LLaMA, but it was a rust project
2023-04-07 21:15:08 +0200 <Adeon> it can write haskell
2023-04-07 21:15:11 +0200 <Adeon> but I don't think it's practical
2023-04-07 21:15:13 +0200 <Adeon> code is not good enough
2023-04-07 21:15:14 +0200 <Adeon> and it's too slow
2023-04-07 21:15:54 +0200 <Adeon> I think I did see someone have a smaller model on hackernews like a local bootleg github copilot but I have no idea if it's any good
2023-04-07 21:15:57 +0200smgot gpt4all running, but hasn't seen it do much useful yet
2023-04-07 21:17:35 +0200 <Adeon> https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/WaWGVD26/Screenshot%202023-04-06%20at%207.42.15%20PM.png some experiments with having vicuna-13B simulate javascript console
2023-04-07 21:17:52 +0200cowboy8625(~cowboy@2603:300a:93a:6300:7434:da9d:389f:cd8) (Quit: WeeChat 3.5)
2023-04-07 21:18:03 +0200 <Adeon> I tried it for haskell and it made haskell-looking code but hallucinated Haskell imports like "import Haskell.GHC.Float.Exact" which afaik is not a thing
2023-04-07 21:18:42 +0200mei(~mei@user/mei) (Remote host closed the connection)
2023-04-07 21:18:54 +0200 <monochrom> This should belong to -offtopic, but meh, everyone likes to comment on AI everywhere. So here is mine. It does not matter what LLMs actually do or don't. With human nature being so broken in multiple ways, it is what people presume LLMs do and that becomes their new reality, distorted or not. Just look at social media for example. We know it transmits only opinions not truth, right? But no, users presume it transmits truth.
2023-04-07 21:19:39 +0200 <juri_> capitalism is going to eat us. :D
2023-04-07 21:20:29 +0200 <monochrom> You know, for that, I'm inclined to the analogy gun : gunner :: capitalism : people
2023-04-07 21:20:36 +0200 <sm> time for #degrowth !
2023-04-07 21:20:48 +0200 <monochrom> We brought it upon ourselves.
2023-04-07 21:20:52 +0200 <sm> all of this can be on-topic if we just tie it back to Haskell things
2023-04-07 21:21:07 +0200mei(~mei@user/mei)
2023-04-07 21:21:12 +0200 <juri_> so, i'm trying to get haskell 3d printing stuff to be a thing.
2023-04-07 21:21:16 +0200 <monochrom> tenuous and overused tie, really.
2023-04-07 21:21:19 +0200 <Adeon> the llama code is fairly simple, probably not hard to replicate in haskell
2023-04-07 21:21:22 +0200 <Adeon> you just need matrix multiplication to be fast
2023-04-07 21:21:26 +0200 <Adeon> maybe can do with accelerate?
2023-04-07 21:21:31 +0200 <juri_> hense, https://github.com/Haskell-Things/
2023-04-07 21:21:33 +0200slac75224(~slack1256@191.125.227.66)
2023-04-07 21:22:04 +0200 <juri_> I'm currently working on getting out my old openmosix code, so we can make clusters cooperate better.
2023-04-07 21:22:29 +0200 <Adeon> there's an accelerate-blas
2023-04-07 21:22:31 +0200 <Adeon> bam it's doable
2023-04-07 21:22:36 +0200 <sm> powerful technology amplifies human failings and too much is very dangerous for us. What's the equivalent in haskell world right now
2023-04-07 21:22:38 +0200 <juri_> and, i'm using chatgpt to help answer questions i have, while i set it all back up, and forward port.
2023-04-07 21:23:11 +0200 <juri_> when i'm done, i'll want to expose the whole thing to the ghc runtime.. which should be 'fun'.
2023-04-07 21:23:24 +0200 <monochrom> Type-level Haskell programming amplifies code obfuscation? >:D
2023-04-07 21:23:49 +0200slack1256(~slack1256@186.11.85.195) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2023-04-07 21:24:56 +0200 <sm> sounds right
2023-04-07 21:25:54 +0200 <sm> Adeon: (screenshot) you think you have a rough idea what it does, yet it's still amazing..
2023-04-07 21:26:15 +0200 <Adeon> (not in the screenshot: for (var i = 7; i < 17; i += 2) { console.log(i); } failing miserably)
2023-04-07 21:26:55 +0200kupi(uid212005@id-212005.hampstead.irccloud.com)
2023-04-07 21:27:02 +0200 <Adeon> I think for github copilot things it's almost there, if you made all the necessary glue and editor plugins etc. I think slowness at least for the thing I'm using would be the limiting factor because you don't want to wait 30 seconds to get a completion
2023-04-07 21:27:12 +0200 <Adeon> and for languages like haskell it's exposed to less haskell code so the code is crappier
2023-04-07 21:29:00 +0200 <juri_> haskell is great at DSLs, and the GPTs learn DSLs well, or at least, can be taught to halucinate them.
2023-04-07 21:29:36 +0200 <juri_> i've been doing some research on a slicing language based on scad, and have been able to get GPT to halucinate syntax that kinda makes sense. so i'm implementing that syntax.
2023-04-07 21:29:40 +0200 <sm> what would make it worthwhile to implement these things in haskell Adeon ?
2023-04-07 21:30:32 +0200 <monochrom> You can basically just look at C-grade CS students and predict what LLMs do. Because C-grade students do the same thing. Go to stackoverflow and correlate questions with answers. Nothing deeper or subtler.
2023-04-07 21:31:57 +0200machinedgod(~machinedg@d198-53-218-113.abhsia.telus.net)
2023-04-07 21:33:29 +0200 <sm> they can definitely automate some of the support we give in here
2023-04-07 21:34:28 +0200 <sm> lambdabot, don't you want more brains ?
2023-04-07 21:35:36 +0200 <monochrom> I hope not in the sense of wanting to eat brains...
2023-04-07 21:35:58 +0200waleee(~waleee@2001:9b0:21c:4000:5bf9:6515:c030:57b7)
2023-04-07 21:36:32 +0200 <yushyin> maybe lambdabot is a zombie
2023-04-07 21:37:11 +0200 <monochrom> @botsnack
2023-04-07 21:37:11 +0200 <lambdabot> :)
2023-04-07 21:37:30 +0200 <sm> @where brains ?
2023-04-07 21:37:30 +0200 <lambdabot> I know nothing about brains.
2023-04-07 21:37:38 +0200 <ski> @brain
2023-04-07 21:37:38 +0200 <lambdabot> It is here that my cheap workforce of trained iguanas will work
2023-04-07 21:37:38 +0200 <lambdabot> night and day to make our shoes to my exacting specifications!
2023-04-07 21:39:53 +0200 <ski> monochrom : are you saying C-grade students go to SO and ask questions, trying to make use of answers; or that they go there and try to correlate questions with answers ?
2023-04-07 21:40:39 +0200ski's idly reminded of O'Keefe's rant about 3rd year CS students not expecting to understand compiler responses
2023-04-07 21:40:44 +0200gurkenglas(~gurkengla@dynamic-046-114-181-142.46.114.pool.telefonica.de) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2023-04-07 21:40:55 +0200 <monochrom> They do both. If their question has not been asked, they ask.
2023-04-07 21:41:32 +0200 <monochrom> At any rate, when they see an answer, they "learn" that this answers the question. They will reproduce the same answer on their homework and exams.
2023-04-07 21:42:27 +0200gurkenglas(~gurkengla@dynamic-046-114-177-022.46.114.pool.telefonica.de)
2023-04-07 21:42:29 +0200 <monochrom> The salient feature is that they don't ask why the answer code answers the question, unlike B-grade students. They just remember the mapping.
2023-04-07 21:42:42 +0200 <ski> yea, i was suspecting you meant both (although probably they primarily do the latter)
2023-04-07 21:43:16 +0200 <monochrom> Oh, by this the Year 2023 of Our Lord, all homework questions have already been asked. :)
2023-04-07 21:43:55 +0200 <ski> .. this reminds me about the distinction between learning "fact tidbits" ("packing") and learning associations, connections, concepts, systems ("mapping")
2023-04-07 21:44:06 +0200merijn(~merijn@86-86-29-250.fixed.kpn.net)
2023-04-07 21:45:10 +0200 <ski> (terms from the old "Programmers Stone" document, by Alan Carter,Colston Sanger)
2023-04-07 21:45:26 +0200 <monochrom> This is to contrast with what B students, A students, and scientist do: Find a very small theory that answers a million different questions.
2023-04-07 21:48:22 +0200ski. o O ( "The ontology of the lambs" ("Technicians","Engineers","Scientists") by Michael T. Richter (ttmrichter) in 2012-09-17 at <https://web.archive.org/web/20130426040216/http://www.txt.io/t-2hv4m> )
2023-04-07 21:48:41 +0200coot(~coot@213.134.170.228) (Quit: coot)
2023-04-07 21:49:15 +0200merijn(~merijn@86-86-29-250.fixed.kpn.net) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2023-04-07 21:49:24 +0200 <ski> what's the difference between B and A students, then ?
2023-04-07 21:49:48 +0200 <monochrom> The A students succeed. The B students try but struggle.
2023-04-07 21:50:21 +0200bratwurst(~dfadsva@2604:3d09:207f:f650::708a)
2023-04-07 21:51:17 +0200waleee(~waleee@2001:9b0:21c:4000:5bf9:6515:c030:57b7) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2023-04-07 21:52:02 +0200 <ski> i see
2023-04-07 21:59:19 +0200VY2(~user@85.89.126.32)
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2023-04-07 22:02:43 +0200notzmv(~zmv@user/notzmv)
2023-04-07 22:06:59 +0200 <aaronv> I thought C students were the ones who were screamed at for using the word isomorphism rather than regurgitating back whatever the teacher wanted to hear
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2023-04-07 22:13:43 +0200Sciencentistguy6Sciencentistguy
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2023-04-07 22:14:58 +0200 <bratwurst> can anyone point me to an example of how to do a hetergeneous tree that isn't super complicated like aspectag and deep-transformations? i was trying to do a gui and would like to be able to represent a tree of different kinds of widgets
2023-04-07 22:15:29 +0200 <bratwurst> i vaguely get how hlist works
2023-04-07 22:16:56 +0200 <davean> Do you actually want it to know the types and not just the interfaces?
2023-04-07 22:17:05 +0200 <davean> Generally here an existential class is sufficient
2023-04-07 22:17:21 +0200 <aaronv> you probably don't actually want the tree to be heterogeneous
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2023-04-07 22:19:08 +0200hippoid(~My_user_n@user/hippoid)
2023-04-07 22:20:24 +0200 <davean> aaronv: more clearly I'd say you want it to be homogenious in a class, not in types.
2023-04-07 22:22:41 +0200 <aaronv> I wouldn't. An existential type is still a type. If the things in the tree all have type exists x. Foo x then they all have the same type
2023-04-07 22:26:00 +0200 <bratwurst> i suppose i could just use an hlist. my idea is to have "objects" which are tuples of hitbox, value and the handlers that manipulate them. so i could filter the list for hitbox hits, then transform the associated value with it handler
2023-04-07 22:26:36 +0200 <bratwurst> im trying to use reactive-banana but i don't fully know how to use it either lol
2023-04-07 22:28:09 +0200jakalx(~jakalx@base.jakalx.net) (Error from remote client)
2023-04-07 22:28:14 +0200 <bratwurst> ill start over.
2023-04-07 22:28:42 +0200 <aaronv> again, you very likely don't want an hlist. Maybe you want a list of a sum type
2023-04-07 22:28:48 +0200 <aaronv> is this a list of events?
2023-04-07 22:29:06 +0200slac75224(~slack1256@191.125.227.66) (Remote host closed the connection)
2023-04-07 22:29:26 +0200 <aaronv> er, not in the frp sense of the word event
2023-04-07 22:30:12 +0200 <bratwurst> i think my problem is i'm too used to oo frameworks
2023-04-07 22:31:24 +0200 <bratwurst> right now im working on how to do layout. so say i have a toolbar and a graph viewer. i want to say the toolbar is above the viewer and the same width.
2023-04-07 22:31:25 +0200bollu(~bollu@159.65.151.13) (Remote host closed the connection)
2023-04-07 22:31:50 +0200 <bratwurst> but im not sure how to do this without an h-collection
2023-04-07 22:32:22 +0200 <bratwurst> so with an existential i could have a layout class
2023-04-07 22:33:29 +0200cheater_(~Username@user/cheater)
2023-04-07 22:33:35 +0200 <bratwurst> i'm also thinking about how to shift the keyboard focus around
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2023-04-07 22:35:11 +0200oac_(~oac@96.72.40.61)
2023-04-07 22:35:15 +0200cheater_cheater
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2023-04-07 22:35:47 +0200 <bratwurst> ok ill try with an existential for rendering and an existential for layout. ill let you know if i come up with a better question
2023-04-07 22:36:12 +0200merijn(~merijn@86-86-29-250.fixed.kpn.net) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2023-04-07 22:36:21 +0200 <bratwurst> i still want to figure out how a heterogenous tree would work but i will leave that till im more advanced
2023-04-07 22:37:13 +0200 <bratwurst> im just doing the gui for programming practise. im enjoying how challenging it is.
2023-04-07 22:37:29 +0200 <bratwurst> reading this stuff is really putting my brain to work
2023-04-07 22:39:27 +0200bollu(~bollu@159.65.151.13)
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2023-04-07 22:45:10 +0200L29Ah(~L29Ah@wikipedia/L29Ah) ()
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2023-04-07 23:10:01 +0200 <bratwurst> i don't suppose there's a site somewhere that can list packages using a given ghc extension?
2023-04-07 23:10:11 +0200 <bratwurst> i would like more examples of gadt's to look at
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2023-04-07 23:38:21 +0200mikess(~sam@user/mikess)
2023-04-07 23:38:30 +0200Umeaboy(~Umeaboy@94-255-145-133.cust.bredband2.com)
2023-04-07 23:38:34 +0200 <Umeaboy> Hi!
2023-04-07 23:39:22 +0200 <ski> goddag
2023-04-07 23:39:39 +0200kenran(~user@user/kenran) (Remote host closed the connection)
2023-04-07 23:39:53 +0200 <Umeaboy> I have made a spec-file to build ghc using the source archive and I have a patch to it, but the %prep and the patch line isn't working automatically. Hold on...... I'll pastebin the spec.
2023-04-07 23:40:23 +0200 <Umeaboy> Side note: I've managed to manually build stage1 of the same version so no error there.
2023-04-07 23:41:14 +0200 <Umeaboy> Here's the spec-file: https://pastebin.com/968P20vs
2023-04-07 23:42:16 +0200 <Umeaboy> Here's the patch: https://pastebin.com/nz23zram
2023-04-07 23:43:25 +0200mikess(~sam@user/mikess) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2023-04-07 23:43:25 +0200 <Umeaboy> What am I doing wrong here?
2023-04-07 23:43:43 +0200 <ski> måhända #ghc kan också vara relevant att fråga
2023-04-07 23:43:53 +0200 <Umeaboy> ski: Jo.
2023-04-07 23:43:59 +0200 <Umeaboy> Tack.
2023-04-07 23:44:16 +0200 <geekosaur> not sure #ghc will help much here, this seems like an rpm question?
2023-04-07 23:44:53 +0200 <geekosaur> (I haven't worked with rpm spec files since, uh, 2010)
2023-04-07 23:44:59 +0200VY2(~user@85.89.126.32) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2023-04-07 23:45:16 +0200skihaven't really, at all
2023-04-07 23:45:59 +0200merijn(~merijn@86-86-29-250.fixed.kpn.net) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2023-04-07 23:46:12 +0200 <Umeaboy> I have even had a conversation with OpenAI about this, but it gives me confusing answers.
2023-04-07 23:46:27 +0200 <hpc> iirc at the start of prep you need %patch100?
2023-04-07 23:46:51 +0200 <hpc> or something along those lines
2023-04-07 23:46:58 +0200 <hpc> basically you need to say when in the build to apply the patch
2023-04-07 23:47:05 +0200 <Umeaboy> hpc: I changed the number to see if it made a difference.
2023-04-07 23:47:08 +0200 <geekosaur> %autosetup does that
2023-04-07 23:47:13 +0200 <Umeaboy> It didn't make a difference.
2023-04-07 23:47:53 +0200 <Umeaboy> Have I placed the patch at the wrong line?
2023-04-07 23:49:02 +0200mikess(~sam@user/mikess)
2023-04-07 23:49:05 +0200 <hpc> does the patch need to be --- ghc.spec?
2023-04-07 23:50:24 +0200 <Umeaboy> hpc: I asked OpenAI to make the patch for me.
2023-04-07 23:50:40 +0200 <Umeaboy> So I'm not to blaim for this. :)
2023-04-07 23:51:13 +0200NiceBird(~NiceBird@185.133.111.196) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2023-04-07 23:51:23 +0200 <hpc> heh
2023-04-07 23:51:25 +0200nate1(~nate@98.45.169.16)
2023-04-07 23:52:19 +0200ski. o O ( "Your honor, I didn't write the code in question, this program did." )
2023-04-07 23:52:59 +0200 <geekosaur> now you know why a bunch of folks are asking for a halt to ai stuffs while legal and ethical issues get worked out
2023-04-07 23:53:14 +0200 <hpc> ski: in a shocking twist, the program was vim :P
2023-04-07 23:53:50 +0200 <geekosaur> I'm not sure macros are much of an improvement tbh 🙂
2023-04-07 23:54:03 +0200 <geekosaur> (yes, I know)
2023-04-07 23:54:34 +0200 <ski> "`M-x evil-mode' made me do it !"
2023-04-07 23:54:42 +0200 <geekosaur> I do have some doubts about hacking $LIBRARY_PATH
2023-04-07 23:54:55 +0200jwiegley(~jwiegley@76-234-69-149.lightspeed.frokca.sbcglobal.net)
2023-04-07 23:54:55 +0200 <Umeaboy> Could the reason be that I didn't create the patch using nano? I just manually created a patch file in Pluma.
2023-04-07 23:55:12 +0200 <geekosaur> did you test the patch outside of rpmbuild?
2023-04-07 23:55:20 +0200 <Umeaboy> Nope.
2023-04-07 23:55:49 +0200 <geekosaur> maybe that's the first step then
2023-04-07 23:56:04 +0200 <geekosaur> possibly -p1 is wrong for the patch file?
2023-04-07 23:56:33 +0200nate1(~nate@98.45.169.16) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2023-04-07 23:57:04 +0200 <geekosaur> in fact, certainly it's wrong
2023-04-07 23:57:25 +0200 <hpc> oh, yeah, that sounds right now
2023-04-07 23:57:27 +0200 <geekosaur> looking at the patch I don't think you want any -p option, since it has only a filename and no path
2023-04-07 23:57:43 +0200 <hpc> i am used to seeing patch files where it's something like "--- a/file.extension" and "+++ b/file.extension"
2023-04-07 23:57:45 +0200__monty__(~toonn@user/toonn) (Quit: leaving)
2023-04-07 23:57:46 +0200 <Umeaboy> OK.
2023-04-07 23:57:49 +0200 <hpc> and i never have issues with those
2023-04-07 23:58:32 +0200 <geekosaur> so you either want no -p option or -p0