| 2023-03-22 00:03:48 +0100 | jmdaemon | (~jmdaemon@user/jmdaemon) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 2023-03-22 00:06:04 +0100 | <int-e> | Square: Oh is that / supposed to be a horizontal bar? It's an inference rule, with premises on top and a conclusion on the bottom. The first one of those links to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Typing_rule |
| 2023-03-22 00:07:21 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@c-001-001-015.client.esciencecenter.eduvpn.nl) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) |
| 2023-03-22 00:07:45 +0100 | <int-e> | (those aren't expressions either, syntactically; they're called "type judgements" and have a context (generically, Gamma), a turnstile |-, an expression, a colon :, and a type. |
| 2023-03-22 00:07:48 +0100 | <int-e> | ) |
| 2023-03-22 00:08:20 +0100 | <Square> | EvanR, it was the first expression (displayed as a small picture) after the paragraph headline "(λ→) Simply typed lambda calculus". |
| 2023-03-22 00:09:23 +0100 | <Square> | okok.. I'll dwell deeper into this when I have time. |
| 2023-03-22 00:14:42 +0100 | Tuplanolla | (~Tuplanoll@91-159-68-236.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 2023-03-22 00:18:22 +0100 | <int-e> | . o O ( "delve" ) |
| 2023-03-22 00:21:39 +0100 | jmdaemon | (~jmdaemon@user/jmdaemon) |
| 2023-03-22 00:24:20 +0100 | wroathe | (~wroathe@207-153-38-140.fttp.usinternet.com) |
| 2023-03-22 00:24:20 +0100 | wroathe | (~wroathe@207-153-38-140.fttp.usinternet.com) (Changing host) |
| 2023-03-22 00:24:20 +0100 | wroathe | (~wroathe@user/wroathe) |
| 2023-03-22 00:24:20 +0100 | <Square> | int-e, ops. English.. sigh. |
| 2023-03-22 00:28:58 +0100 | bjobjo | (~bjobjo@user/bjobjo) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2023-03-22 00:30:58 +0100 | bjobjo | (~bjobjo@user/bjobjo) |
| 2023-03-22 00:31:04 +0100 | inversed | (~inversed@bcdcac82.skybroadband.com) (Quit: Connection error?!) |
| 2023-03-22 00:37:59 +0100 | chomwitt | (~chomwitt@ppp-94-67-191-224.home.otenet.gr) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2023-03-22 00:42:24 +0100 | inversed | (~inversed@bcdcac82.skybroadband.com) |
| 2023-03-22 00:42:26 +0100 | jwiegley | (~jwiegley@76-234-69-149.lightspeed.frokca.sbcglobal.net) |
| 2023-03-22 00:43:12 +0100 | codaraxis | (~codaraxis@user/codaraxis) |
| 2023-03-22 00:44:45 +0100 | codaraxis__ | (~codaraxis@user/codaraxis) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
| 2023-03-22 00:47:23 +0100 | acidjnk_new | (~acidjnk@p200300d6e715c49690267839e4058790.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 2023-03-22 00:50:51 +0100 | sammelweis | (~quassel@2601:401:8200:2d4c:bd9:d04c:7f69:eb10) (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.) |
| 2023-03-22 00:52:08 +0100 | sammelweis | (~quassel@2601:401:8200:2d4c:bd9:d04c:7f69:eb10) |
| 2023-03-22 00:58:51 +0100 | <sm> | mesaoptimizer2: thanks for sharing time costs, I like to see those |
| 2023-03-22 00:59:15 +0100 | <sm> | and congrats on the port! |
| 2023-03-22 00:59:26 +0100 | ChanServ | +o johnw |
| 2023-03-22 00:59:28 +0100 | jwiegley | johnw (Kicked by johnw) |
| 2023-03-22 00:59:31 +0100 | johnw | -o johnw |
| 2023-03-22 00:59:43 +0100 | <johnw> | yes, I kicked myself :) |
| 2023-03-22 00:59:57 +0100 | <sm> | johnw :) |
| 2023-03-22 01:00:16 +0100 | <johnw> | I don't know why ZenIRC is logging me in as both john and jwiegley, so that I end up getting double messages from every chat room |
| 2023-03-22 01:01:09 +0100 | <c_wraith> | it's decided IRC is better in stereo |
| 2023-03-22 01:01:31 +0100 | <johnw> | oh, I see the problem, it's in the ZenIRC config |
| 2023-03-22 01:01:49 +0100 | codaraxis__ | (~codaraxis@user/codaraxis) |
| 2023-03-22 01:01:53 +0100 | <c_wraith> | that sounds like an actual problem rather than a joke. :( |
| 2023-03-22 01:03:47 +0100 | codaraxis | (~codaraxis@user/codaraxis) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 2023-03-22 01:10:51 +0100 | gdr3941 | (~user@c-73-58-202-143.hsd1.tn.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
| 2023-03-22 01:12:32 +0100 | lxi | (~quassel@2a02:2f08:4706:3500:ae8e:3958:a6a4:da79) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 2023-03-22 01:15:47 +0100 | gdr3941 | (~user@c-73-58-202-143.hsd1.tn.comcast.net) |
| 2023-03-22 01:19:26 +0100 | gdr3941 | (~user@c-73-58-202-143.hsd1.tn.comcast.net) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2023-03-22 01:19:40 +0100 | gdr3941 | (~user@c-73-58-202-143.hsd1.tn.comcast.net) |
| 2023-03-22 01:21:47 +0100 | foul_owl | (~kerry@157.97.134.63) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 2023-03-22 01:22:40 +0100 | ph88 | (~ph88@ip5b426553.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) (Quit: Leaving) |
| 2023-03-22 01:25:03 +0100 | gdr3941 | (~user@c-73-58-202-143.hsd1.tn.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) |
| 2023-03-22 01:27:59 +0100 | Tuplanolla | (~Tuplanoll@91-159-68-236.elisa-laajakaista.fi) (Quit: Leaving.) |
| 2023-03-22 01:35:26 +0100 | foul_owl | (~kerry@71.212.143.88) |
| 2023-03-22 01:37:26 +0100 | gdr3941 | (~user@c-73-58-202-143.hsd1.tn.comcast.net) |
| 2023-03-22 01:40:00 +0100 | gurkenglas | (~gurkengla@dynamic-089-204-139-175.89.204.139.pool.telefonica.de) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 2023-03-22 01:44:26 +0100 | gdr3941 | (~user@c-73-58-202-143.hsd1.tn.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 2023-03-22 01:45:18 +0100 | azimut | (~azimut@gateway/tor-sasl/azimut) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2023-03-22 01:45:39 +0100 | azimut | (~azimut@gateway/tor-sasl/azimut) |
| 2023-03-22 01:47:40 +0100 | gdr3941 | (~user@c-73-58-202-143.hsd1.tn.comcast.net) |
| 2023-03-22 01:47:47 +0100 | mauke_ | (~mauke@user/mauke) |
| 2023-03-22 01:49:25 +0100 | mauke | (~mauke@user/mauke) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) |
| 2023-03-22 01:49:26 +0100 | mauke_ | mauke |
| 2023-03-22 01:52:42 +0100 | gdr3941 | (~user@c-73-58-202-143.hsd1.tn.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
| 2023-03-22 01:53:37 +0100 | waleee | (~waleee@h-176-10-137-138.NA.cust.bahnhof.se) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 2023-03-22 01:57:10 +0100 | zmt00 | (~zmt00@user/zmt00) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2023-03-22 01:59:39 +0100 | dsrt^ | (~dsrt@c-24-30-76-89.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) |
| 2023-03-22 02:03:46 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@c-001-001-015.client.esciencecenter.eduvpn.nl) |
| 2023-03-22 02:04:05 +0100 | gdr3941 | (~user@c-73-58-202-143.hsd1.tn.comcast.net) |
| 2023-03-22 02:05:01 +0100 | ddellacosta | (~ddellacos@146.70.165.10) (Quit: WeeChat 3.8) |
| 2023-03-22 02:05:54 +0100 | ddellacosta | (~ddellacos@146.70.165.10) |
| 2023-03-22 02:08:31 +0100 | wroathe | (~wroathe@user/wroathe) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 2023-03-22 02:08:55 +0100 | gdr3941 | (~user@c-73-58-202-143.hsd1.tn.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) |
| 2023-03-22 02:10:34 +0100 | albet70 | (~xxx@2400:8902::f03c:92ff:fe60:98d8) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2023-03-22 02:11:34 +0100 | gdr3941 | (~user@c-73-58-202-143.hsd1.tn.comcast.net) |
| 2023-03-22 02:13:24 +0100 | machinedgod | (~machinedg@d198-53-218-113.abhsia.telus.net) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
| 2023-03-22 02:16:08 +0100 | gdr3941 | (~user@c-73-58-202-143.hsd1.tn.comcast.net) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2023-03-22 02:16:21 +0100 | gdr3941 | (~user@c-73-58-202-143.hsd1.tn.comcast.net) |
| 2023-03-22 02:16:41 +0100 | albet70 | (~xxx@2400:8902::f03c:92ff:fe60:98d8) |
| 2023-03-22 02:21:47 +0100 | gdr3941 | (~user@c-73-58-202-143.hsd1.tn.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) |
| 2023-03-22 02:23:34 +0100 | gdr3941 | (~user@c-73-58-202-143.hsd1.tn.comcast.net) |
| 2023-03-22 02:26:40 +0100 | waleee | (~waleee@2001:9b0:21c:4000:5bf9:6515:c030:57b7) |
| 2023-03-22 02:28:31 +0100 | gdr3941 | (~user@c-73-58-202-143.hsd1.tn.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2023-03-22 02:31:50 +0100 | pavonia | (~user@user/siracusa) |
| 2023-03-22 02:33:27 +0100 | razetime | (~Thunderbi@117.193.3.56) |
| 2023-03-22 02:34:33 +0100 | m1dnight | (~christoph@78-22-0-121.access.telenet.be) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
| 2023-03-22 02:37:01 +0100 | sammelweis | (~quassel@2601:401:8200:2d4c:bd9:d04c:7f69:eb10) (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.) |
| 2023-03-22 02:37:46 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@c-001-001-015.client.esciencecenter.eduvpn.nl) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 2023-03-22 02:38:23 +0100 | alskdf | (~alskdf@dhcp-108-168-11-138.cable.user.start.ca) |
| 2023-03-22 02:38:32 +0100 | sammelweis | (~quassel@2601:401:8200:2d4c:bd9:d04c:7f69:eb10) |
| 2023-03-22 02:40:34 +0100 | gdr3941 | (~user@c-73-58-202-143.hsd1.tn.comcast.net) |
| 2023-03-22 02:43:46 +0100 | nicm[m] | (~nicmollel@2001:470:69fc:105::1:feeb) |
| 2023-03-22 02:45:50 +0100 | gdr3941 | (~user@c-73-58-202-143.hsd1.tn.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) |
| 2023-03-22 02:46:47 +0100 | gdr3941 | (~user@c-73-58-202-143.hsd1.tn.comcast.net) |
| 2023-03-22 02:50:59 +0100 | jmdaemon | (~jmdaemon@user/jmdaemon) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2023-03-22 02:55:02 +0100 | <EvanR> | Square, X ⊢ Y means something like in a context where you already know X, you can prove or derive Y |
| 2023-03-22 02:55:48 +0100 | <Square> | EvanR, ah thanks |
| 2023-03-22 02:59:28 +0100 | [itchyjunk] | (~itchyjunk@user/itchyjunk/x-7353470) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2023-03-22 02:59:35 +0100 | xff0x | (~xff0x@ai098135.d.east.v6connect.net) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 2023-03-22 03:16:54 +0100 | alskdf | (~alskdf@dhcp-108-168-11-138.cable.user.start.ca) (Quit: Leaving) |
| 2023-03-22 03:27:38 +0100 | azimut | (~azimut@gateway/tor-sasl/azimut) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
| 2023-03-22 03:27:46 +0100 | foul_owl | (~kerry@71.212.143.88) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) |
| 2023-03-22 03:27:56 +0100 | jmorris | (uid537181@id-537181.uxbridge.irccloud.com) |
| 2023-03-22 03:33:52 +0100 | falafel | (~falafel@2603-8000-d700-115c-8bd0-0e12-b540-c706.res6.spectrum.com) |
| 2023-03-22 03:36:52 +0100 | jmdaemon | (~jmdaemon@user/jmdaemon) |
| 2023-03-22 03:38:22 +0100 | machinedgod | (~machinedg@d198-53-218-113.abhsia.telus.net) |
| 2023-03-22 03:39:31 +0100 | codaraxis__ | (~codaraxis@user/codaraxis) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 2023-03-22 03:41:06 +0100 | jero98772 | (~jero98772@2800:484:1d80:d8ce:efcc:cbb3:7f2a:6dff) |
| 2023-03-22 03:41:19 +0100 | foul_owl | (~kerry@157.97.134.62) |
| 2023-03-22 03:41:37 +0100 | eggplantade | (~Eggplanta@2600:1700:38c5:d800:b104:ea11:1f21:4a05) |
| 2023-03-22 03:43:23 +0100 | falafel | (~falafel@2603-8000-d700-115c-8bd0-0e12-b540-c706.res6.spectrum.com) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) |
| 2023-03-22 03:43:51 +0100 | AlexNoo_ | (~AlexNoo@178.34.162.167) |
| 2023-03-22 03:44:02 +0100 | falafel | (~falafel@2603-8000-d700-115c-8880-2a3e-c8d8-84e5.res6.spectrum.com) |
| 2023-03-22 03:44:46 +0100 | xff0x | (~xff0x@125x103x176x34.ap125.ftth.ucom.ne.jp) |
| 2023-03-22 03:45:47 +0100 | Alex_test | (~al_test@178.34.160.55) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 2023-03-22 03:46:54 +0100 | nate4 | (~nate@98.45.169.16) |
| 2023-03-22 03:47:27 +0100 | jushur | (~human@user/jushur) (Quit: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯) |
| 2023-03-22 03:47:58 +0100 | AlexZenon | (~alzenon@178.34.160.55) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 2023-03-22 03:47:58 +0100 | AlexNoo | (~AlexNoo@178.34.160.55) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 2023-03-22 03:49:53 +0100 | Alex_test | (~al_test@178.34.162.167) |
| 2023-03-22 03:51:47 +0100 | szkl | (uid110435@id-110435.uxbridge.irccloud.com) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) |
| 2023-03-22 03:52:03 +0100 | AlexZenon | (~alzenon@178.34.162.167) |
| 2023-03-22 03:56:47 +0100 | lagash | (lagash@lagash.shelltalk.net) (Quit: ZNC - https://znc.in) |
| 2023-03-22 03:57:01 +0100 | lagash | (lagash@lagash.shelltalk.net) |
| 2023-03-22 04:08:36 +0100 | vicfred | (~vicfred@user/vicfred) |
| 2023-03-22 04:08:39 +0100 | L29Ah | (~L29Ah@wikipedia/L29Ah) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2023-03-22 04:10:04 +0100 | razetime | (~Thunderbi@117.193.3.56) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 2023-03-22 04:11:46 +0100 | codaraxis | (~codaraxis@user/codaraxis) |
| 2023-03-22 04:13:40 +0100 | td_ | (~td@i5387090D.versanet.de) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2023-03-22 04:15:48 +0100 | td_ | (~td@i53870930.versanet.de) |
| 2023-03-22 04:17:42 +0100 | jero98772 | (~jero98772@2800:484:1d80:d8ce:efcc:cbb3:7f2a:6dff) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2023-03-22 04:19:09 +0100 | vicfred | (~vicfred@user/vicfred) (Quit: leaving) |
| 2023-03-22 04:19:14 +0100 | razetime | (~Thunderbi@117.193.3.56) |
| 2023-03-22 04:25:51 +0100 | falafel | (~falafel@2603-8000-d700-115c-8880-2a3e-c8d8-84e5.res6.spectrum.com) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) |
| 2023-03-22 04:29:08 +0100 | razetime | (~Thunderbi@117.193.3.56) (Quit: See You Space Cowboy) |
| 2023-03-22 04:29:31 +0100 | gdr3941 | (~user@c-73-58-202-143.hsd1.tn.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2023-03-22 04:30:37 +0100 | gdr3941 | (~user@c-73-58-202-143.hsd1.tn.comcast.net) |
| 2023-03-22 04:34:06 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@c-001-001-015.client.esciencecenter.eduvpn.nl) |
| 2023-03-22 04:35:36 +0100 | gdr3941 | (~user@c-73-58-202-143.hsd1.tn.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) |
| 2023-03-22 04:36:18 +0100 | gdr3941 | (~user@c-73-58-202-143.hsd1.tn.comcast.net) |
| 2023-03-22 04:37:13 +0100 | jushur | (~human@user/jushur) |
| 2023-03-22 04:38:31 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@c-001-001-015.client.esciencecenter.eduvpn.nl) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2023-03-22 04:41:20 +0100 | gdr3941 | (~user@c-73-58-202-143.hsd1.tn.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 2023-03-22 04:42:22 +0100 | gdr3941 | (~user@c-73-58-202-143.hsd1.tn.comcast.net) |
| 2023-03-22 04:46:00 +0100 | jushur | (~human@user/jushur) ( ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ) |
| 2023-03-22 04:47:21 +0100 | finn_elija | (~finn_elij@user/finn-elija/x-0085643) |
| 2023-03-22 04:47:21 +0100 | FinnElija | (~finn_elij@user/finn-elija/x-0085643) (Killed (NickServ (Forcing logout FinnElija -> finn_elija))) |
| 2023-03-22 04:47:21 +0100 | finn_elija | FinnElija |
| 2023-03-22 04:49:01 +0100 | nate4 | (~nate@98.45.169.16) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2023-03-22 04:51:51 +0100 | machinedgod | (~machinedg@d198-53-218-113.abhsia.telus.net) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) |
| 2023-03-22 04:52:08 +0100 | Wojciech_K | (~Wojciech_@2a01:4f9:6a:18a8::239) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2023-03-22 04:58:47 +0100 | Wojciech_K | (~Wojciech_@2a01:4f9:6a:18a8::239) |
| 2023-03-22 05:00:12 +0100 | pwntips | (~user@24-113-98-114.wavecable.com) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2023-03-22 05:02:19 +0100 | lagash | (lagash@lagash.shelltalk.net) (Quit: ZNC - https://znc.in) |
| 2023-03-22 05:04:28 +0100 | lagash | (lagash@lagash.shelltalk.net) |
| 2023-03-22 05:05:30 +0100 | waleee | (~waleee@2001:9b0:21c:4000:5bf9:6515:c030:57b7) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 2023-03-22 05:05:36 +0100 | ec | (~ec@gateway/tor-sasl/ec) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2023-03-22 05:05:59 +0100 | ec | (~ec@gateway/tor-sasl/ec) |
| 2023-03-22 05:12:11 +0100 | msavoritias | (cb716af6b3@irc.cheogram.com) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 2023-03-22 05:27:18 +0100 | vglfr | (~vglfr@88.155.10.218) |
| 2023-03-22 05:33:32 +0100 | zmt00 | (~zmt00@user/zmt00) |
| 2023-03-22 05:37:54 +0100 | Square | (~Square4@user/square) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2023-03-22 05:38:31 +0100 | Square | (~Square4@user/square) |
| 2023-03-22 05:43:21 +0100 | sagax | (~sagax_nb@user/sagax) |
| 2023-03-22 05:46:15 +0100 | gdr3941 | (~user@c-73-58-202-143.hsd1.tn.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
| 2023-03-22 05:49:49 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@86-86-29-250.fixed.kpn.net) |
| 2023-03-22 05:52:04 +0100 | jamestmartin | (~james@jtmar.me) (Quit: ZNC 1.8.2+deb2+b1 - https://znc.in) |
| 2023-03-22 05:52:13 +0100 | jamestmartin | (~james@jtmar.me) |
| 2023-03-22 05:58:07 +0100 | gdr3941 | (~user@c-73-58-202-143.hsd1.tn.comcast.net) |
| 2023-03-22 06:03:15 +0100 | gdr3941 | (~user@c-73-58-202-143.hsd1.tn.comcast.net) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2023-03-22 06:03:29 +0100 | gdr3941 | (~user@c-73-58-202-143.hsd1.tn.comcast.net) |
| 2023-03-22 06:05:01 +0100 | Square | (~Square4@user/square) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) |
| 2023-03-22 06:08:01 +0100 | gdr3941 | (~user@c-73-58-202-143.hsd1.tn.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2023-03-22 06:19:23 +0100 | ddellacosta | (~ddellacos@146.70.165.10) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) |
| 2023-03-22 06:19:32 +0100 | gdr3941 | (~user@c-73-58-202-143.hsd1.tn.comcast.net) |
| 2023-03-22 06:20:03 +0100 | elkcl_ | (~elkcl@broadband-37-110-27-252.ip.moscow.rt.ru) |
| 2023-03-22 06:21:22 +0100 | elkcl | (~elkcl@broadband-37-110-27-252.ip.moscow.rt.ru) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 2023-03-22 06:21:22 +0100 | elkcl_ | elkcl |
| 2023-03-22 06:24:03 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@86-86-29-250.fixed.kpn.net) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
| 2023-03-22 06:25:01 +0100 | gdr3941 | (~user@c-73-58-202-143.hsd1.tn.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) |
| 2023-03-22 06:26:07 +0100 | harveypwca | (~harveypwc@2601:246:c180:a570:3828:d8:e523:3f67) |
| 2023-03-22 06:35:12 +0100 | gdr3941 | (~user@c-73-58-202-143.hsd1.tn.comcast.net) |
| 2023-03-22 06:36:55 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@c-001-001-015.client.esciencecenter.eduvpn.nl) |
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| 2023-03-22 08:40:11 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@c-001-001-015.client.esciencecenter.eduvpn.nl) |
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| 2023-03-22 08:43:38 +0100 | jeeger | (~user@2001:9e8:329b:8700:2d3c:1563:cb1a:6a83) |
| 2023-03-22 08:45:09 +0100 | gdr3941 | (~user@c-73-58-202-143.hsd1.tn.comcast.net) |
| 2023-03-22 08:45:51 +0100 | <Athas> | Has GHC become faster in 9.6? My program takes only 3m9s to compile from scratch (not counding dependencies). I could have sworn it used to take longer. |
| 2023-03-22 08:47:16 +0100 | pwntips | (~user@24-113-98-114.wavecable.com) |
| 2023-03-22 08:47:58 +0100 | <sm> | I read something about a 10% compilation speedup on average |
| 2023-03-22 08:48:38 +0100 | <jeeger> | Greetings! I'm trying to type "A map that has a value for every element of an enum" in Haskell. I know that this involves some heavy typelevel shenanigans, but I'm trying to demonstrate something (map doesn't necessarily need to be a map). I've got a version here that uses incomplete pattern matching, but that's not really on the type level: https://paste.debian.net/hidden/7565d1a1/. |
| 2023-03-22 08:54:37 +0100 | machinedgod | (~machinedg@d198-53-218-113.abhsia.telus.net) |
| 2023-03-22 08:57:42 +0100 | kenran | (~user@user/kenran) |
| 2023-03-22 09:01:31 +0100 | harveypwca | (~harveypwc@2601:246:c180:a570:3828:d8:e523:3f67) (Quit: Leaving) |
| 2023-03-22 09:04:10 +0100 | lagash | (lagash@lagash.shelltalk.net) (Quit: ZNC - https://znc.in) |
| 2023-03-22 09:05:45 +0100 | lagash | (lagash@lagash.shelltalk.net) |
| 2023-03-22 09:11:25 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@c-001-001-015.client.esciencecenter.eduvpn.nl) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) |
| 2023-03-22 09:14:48 +0100 | nschoe | (~q@141.101.51.197) |
| 2023-03-22 09:16:09 +0100 | lortabac | (~lortabac@2a01:e0a:541:b8f0:418:7c9:e7ab:4823) |
| 2023-03-22 09:20:13 +0100 | zeenk | (~zeenk@2a02:2f04:a307:2300::7fe) |
| 2023-03-22 09:26:20 +0100 | <dminuoso> | Athas: Compared to what version? |
| 2023-03-22 09:28:44 +0100 | eggplantade | (~Eggplanta@2600:1700:38c5:d800:b104:ea11:1f21:4a05) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2023-03-22 09:28:46 +0100 | <Athas> | Probably 9.2. |
| 2023-03-22 09:28:59 +0100 | lagash | (lagash@lagash.shelltalk.net) (Quit: ZNC - https://znc.in) |
| 2023-03-22 09:29:11 +0100 | lagash | (lagash@lagash.shelltalk.net) |
| 2023-03-22 09:29:20 +0100 | <dminuoso> | Was the source code modified during that pseudo benchmark? |
| 2023-03-22 09:29:39 +0100 | <dminuoso> | Because I know from experience how even a single line addition can be the difference between 5 minutes and 10 seconds of compilation time. |
| 2023-03-22 09:30:01 +0100 | <dminuoso> | (well okay thats a slight exaggeration, it was something around 2-3min vs seconds) |
| 2023-03-22 09:31:08 +0100 | <dminuoso> | In my case it was as stupidly simple as `[foo, bar]` vs `[foo, bar, quux]` (yes, just adding an element to a list) |
| 2023-03-22 09:32:24 +0100 | <dminuoso> | And the underlying behavior could easily trigger between GHC versions too. |
| 2023-03-22 09:32:25 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@c-001-001-015.client.esciencecenter.eduvpn.nl) |
| 2023-03-22 09:33:25 +0100 | <dminuoso> | Concretely the issue in my case was excessive INLINE annotations in megaparsec leading to a crazy blow up during inlining, where compilation time became slower with each element added, but once a single further element was added, it disabled some inline heuristic bringing it back from minutes to seconds. |
| 2023-03-22 09:34:19 +0100 | <dminuoso> | So any change to a simplifier pass can interfere with that, so given a particular region of code, it seems conceivable to get stellar compilation time changes with a GHC update for scenarios like that |
| 2023-03-22 09:34:34 +0100 | <Athas> | Same source code. |
| 2023-03-22 09:34:55 +0100 | <Athas> | But GHC 9.2 takes about 4m, so the difference is not huge. |
| 2023-03-22 09:35:32 +0100 | <dminuoso> | Hot disk caches? Less paging? Better CPU cooling leading to less throttling? |
| 2023-03-22 09:35:57 +0100 | <Athas> | Nope. GHC 9.6 just seems faster. |
| 2023-03-22 09:35:57 +0100 | <dminuoso> | It would be interesting if you can reproduce it with 9.2 |
| 2023-03-22 09:35:59 +0100 | <dminuoso> | Okay |
| 2023-03-22 09:36:23 +0100 | <dminuoso> | But yeah, if you have non-trivial code I can certainly see how compilation time can vary because of how the simplifier passes can interact. |
| 2023-03-22 09:36:34 +0100 | <dminuoso> | for a specific given program at least. |
| 2023-03-22 09:36:54 +0100 | <Athas> | It might also be something even more pedestrian, such as GHC now being better at parallel compilation of modules. |
| 2023-03-22 09:37:06 +0100 | <dminuoso> | GHC can do parallel module compilation at all? |
| 2023-03-22 09:37:19 +0100 | <dminuoso> | I thought that was impossible |
| 2023-03-22 09:37:20 +0100 | <Athas> | Yes, of multiple modules. |
| 2023-03-22 09:37:32 +0100 | <dminuoso> | Ah okay |
| 2023-03-22 09:39:08 +0100 | CiaoSen | (~Jura@p200300c9571fe6002a3a4dfffe84dbd5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 2023-03-22 09:40:59 +0100 | acidjnk_new | (~acidjnk@p200300d6e715c47808d935385f232197.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 2023-03-22 09:41:10 +0100 | vpan | (~0@212.117.1.172) |
| 2023-03-22 09:45:06 +0100 | tzh | (~tzh@c-24-21-73-154.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) (Quit: zzz) |
| 2023-03-22 09:46:19 +0100 | jmdaemon | (~jmdaemon@user/jmdaemon) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 2023-03-22 09:49:35 +0100 | gdr3941 | (~user@c-73-58-202-143.hsd1.tn.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2023-03-22 09:50:38 +0100 | gensyst | (gensyst@user/gensyst) |
| 2023-03-22 09:52:39 +0100 | lagash | (lagash@lagash.shelltalk.net) (Quit: ZNC - https://znc.in) |
| 2023-03-22 09:56:52 +0100 | lagash | (lagash@lagash.shelltalk.net) |
| 2023-03-22 10:00:07 +0100 | elvishjerricco | (~elvishjer@2001:470:69fc:105::6172) (Quit: You have been kicked for being idle) |
| 2023-03-22 10:01:02 +0100 | AlexNoo_ | AlexNoo |
| 2023-03-22 10:02:38 +0100 | nunggu | (~q@user/nunggu) |
| 2023-03-22 10:02:46 +0100 | gdr3941 | (~user@2601:483:4800:5740:c8ab:629d:14a4:490e) |
| 2023-03-22 10:07:31 +0100 | gdr3941 | (~user@2601:483:4800:5740:c8ab:629d:14a4:490e) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2023-03-22 10:10:28 +0100 | gdr3941 | (~user@2601:483:4800:5740:c8ab:629d:14a4:490e) |
| 2023-03-22 10:12:42 +0100 | <tomsmeding> | it's not super effective, but ghc has a -j flag |
| 2023-03-22 10:13:13 +0100 | lukeart | (~Lukeart@82-197-198-85.dsl.cambrium.nl) |
| 2023-03-22 10:14:17 +0100 | <tomsmeding> | jeeger: minBound and maxBound are not available on the type level, they're values |
| 2023-03-22 10:14:34 +0100 | <tomsmeding> | so you aren't going to get any type-level assurance that somehow all values in between are mapped |
| 2023-03-22 10:14:59 +0100 | <tomsmeding> | also, what are all Double values? Double implements Enum >:D |
| 2023-03-22 10:15:43 +0100 | gdr3941 | (~user@2601:483:4800:5740:c8ab:629d:14a4:490e) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2023-03-22 10:16:04 +0100 | <geekosaur> | but probably shouldn't |
| 2023-03-22 10:17:13 +0100 | <tomsmeding> | sure |
| 2023-03-22 10:22:58 +0100 | <tomsmeding> | but it does show why jeeger's request won't work, because the Enum methods are not required by types to be anything sensible |
| 2023-03-22 10:25:24 +0100 | gnalzo | (~gnalzo@2a01:e0a:498:fd50:fcc6:bb5d:489a:ce8c) |
| 2023-03-22 10:25:37 +0100 | gdr3941 | (~user@2601:483:4800:5740:c8ab:629d:14a4:490e) |
| 2023-03-22 10:27:13 +0100 | <jeeger> | I'm fine with changing the type bounds around a bit, using custom types for both the "map" and the "enum" would still satisfy me. |
| 2023-03-22 10:29:14 +0100 | eggplantade | (~Eggplanta@2600:1700:38c5:d800:b104:ea11:1f21:4a05) |
| 2023-03-22 10:29:26 +0100 | econo | (uid147250@user/econo) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) |
| 2023-03-22 10:33:41 +0100 | eggplantade | (~Eggplanta@2600:1700:38c5:d800:b104:ea11:1f21:4a05) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2023-03-22 10:38:21 +0100 | gurkenglas | (~gurkengla@dynamic-089-204-139-175.89.204.139.pool.telefonica.de) |
| 2023-03-22 10:42:01 +0100 | mastarija | (~mastarija@188.252.199.22) |
| 2023-03-22 10:47:03 +0100 | nate4 | (~nate@98.45.169.16) |
| 2023-03-22 10:52:23 +0100 | nate4 | (~nate@98.45.169.16) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 2023-03-22 10:55:27 +0100 | <tomsmeding> | jeeger: in a very real sense, the type you're looking for is (->) :p |
| 2023-03-22 10:55:46 +0100 | <tomsmeding> | that's a mapping from all values in type a to a value in type b |
| 2023-03-22 10:56:07 +0100 | jmdaemon | (~jmdaemon@user/jmdaemon) |
| 2023-03-22 10:57:19 +0100 | <dminuoso> | % appy (a, f) = (a, f a) |
| 2023-03-22 10:57:19 +0100 | <yahb2> | <no output> |
| 2023-03-22 10:57:19 +0100 | elvishjerricco | (~elvishjer@2001:470:69fc:105::6172) |
| 2023-03-22 10:57:21 +0100 | <dminuoso> | % :t appy |
| 2023-03-22 10:57:22 +0100 | <yahb2> | appy :: (t, t -> b) -> (t, b) |
| 2023-03-22 10:57:35 +0100 | <dminuoso> | Is there something that generalizes over this? |
| 2023-03-22 10:57:41 +0100 | <dminuoso> | It looks awfully familiar, profunctory. |
| 2023-03-22 10:57:51 +0100 | ft | (~ft@p3e9bc443.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 2023-03-22 10:57:54 +0100 | <dminuoso> | Or maybe Arrow? |
| 2023-03-22 10:58:09 +0100 | <tomsmeding> | :t uncurry ($) |
| 2023-03-22 10:58:10 +0100 | <lambdabot> | (a -> c, a) -> c |
| 2023-03-22 10:58:49 +0100 | <tomsmeding> | :t snd &&& uncurry ($) |
| 2023-03-22 10:58:50 +0100 | <lambdabot> | (c -> c', c) -> (c, c') |
| 2023-03-22 10:59:26 +0100 | nunggu | (~q@user/nunggu) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
| 2023-03-22 10:59:27 +0100 | <tomsmeding> | :t fst &&& uncurry (flip ($)) |
| 2023-03-22 10:59:28 +0100 | <lambdabot> | (c, c -> c') -> (c, c') |
| 2023-03-22 11:03:14 +0100 | tjakway | (~tjakway@cpe-107-184-74-161.socal.res.rr.com) |
| 2023-03-22 11:03:27 +0100 | slice | (uid26890@user/slice) |
| 2023-03-22 11:04:44 +0100 | lukeart | (~Lukeart@82-197-198-85.dsl.cambrium.nl) (Quit: Quit) |
| 2023-03-22 11:05:42 +0100 | <jeeger> | tomsmeding: I think that's how I implemented my first example? I was unhappy with the incomplete pattern *warning*, and I'm looking for a way to define a "total" function. |
| 2023-03-22 11:07:01 +0100 | xff0x | (~xff0x@125x103x176x34.ap125.ftth.ucom.ne.jp) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2023-03-22 11:12:26 +0100 | <merijn> | Athas: At least all that optimisation effort within ghc since 9.0 hasn't been wasted, then ;) |
| 2023-03-22 11:13:29 +0100 | tjakway | (~tjakway@cpe-107-184-74-161.socal.res.rr.com) (Quit: WeeChat 3.5) |
| 2023-03-22 11:14:36 +0100 | <tomsmeding> | jeeger: that's right |
| 2023-03-22 11:15:02 +0100 | <tomsmeding> | jeeger: thing is, haskell doesn't have total functions; even if you make a data structure that contains all required values, you can put 'undefined' in there |
| 2023-03-22 11:15:18 +0100 | <tomsmeding> | missing fields of record initialisation is also just a warning |
| 2023-03-22 11:15:27 +0100 | <tomsmeding> | Always Turn On -Wall |
| 2023-03-22 11:15:49 +0100 | <tomsmeding> | then turn _off_ the stuff you don't like, if you really feel strongly about that |
| 2023-03-22 11:16:15 +0100 | madjestic | (~madjestic@88-159-247-120.fixed.kpn.net) |
| 2023-03-22 11:17:32 +0100 | <madjestic> | NEW-right: |
| 2023-03-22 11:17:42 +0100 | <lyxia> | jeeger: maybe you'd like to look at vinyl or any of the other extensible type libraries |
| 2023-03-22 11:19:17 +0100 | <jeeger> | Yeah, I'm trying to build a didactic example: I think the Typescript typesystem is too powerful, and I hope I can demonstrate that problems that look "easy" to express in Typescript are actually very hard in other languages with "proper" typesystems. |
| 2023-03-22 11:20:09 +0100 | <geekosaur> | define "too powerful" |
| 2023-03-22 11:20:47 +0100 | <geekosaur> | madjestic: ?? |
| 2023-03-22 11:21:12 +0100 | <madjestic> | geekosaur: sorry, wrong window |
| 2023-03-22 11:21:32 +0100 | <tomsmeding> | jeeger: is this easy in typescript? |
| 2023-03-22 11:21:54 +0100 | phma | (~phma@2001:5b0:211c:53d8:fa79:3596:87fb:9a7b) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2023-03-22 11:22:09 +0100 | lagash | (lagash@lagash.shelltalk.net) (Quit: ZNC - https://znc.in) |
| 2023-03-22 11:22:10 +0100 | <geekosaur> | jaeger, I mean, by Haskell standards Idris's type system might be considered "too powerful", although in fact most people believe the opposite |
| 2023-03-22 11:22:18 +0100 | phma | (~phma@host-67-44-208-67.hnremote.net) |
| 2023-03-22 11:22:35 +0100 | <jeeger> | tomsmeding: I'm probably offended by its unsoundness |
| 2023-03-22 11:23:05 +0100 | <tomsmeding> | I mean, as soon as you have exceptions or infinite loops, you're unsound anyway |
| 2023-03-22 11:23:25 +0100 | L29Ah | (~L29Ah@wikipedia/L29Ah) |
| 2023-03-22 11:23:36 +0100 | <tomsmeding> | Haskell's type system is also unsound because Type :: Type, though I'm not actually sure if type-level Haskell is strong enough to actually exploit that to create a paradox |
| 2023-03-22 11:24:02 +0100 | <geekosaur> | I think it's not |
| 2023-03-22 11:24:10 +0100 | <geekosaur> | even with IncoherentInstances and the like |
| 2023-03-22 11:24:19 +0100 | <tomsmeding> | the standard ways for Agda don't work because you need type-level lambdas |
| 2023-03-22 11:24:38 +0100 | <tomsmeding> | I believe |
| 2023-03-22 11:24:48 +0100 | lottaquestions_ | (~nick@2607:fa49:503e:7100:c169:efbb:2dc6:2ed3) (Quit: Konversation terminated!) |
| 2023-03-22 11:25:07 +0100 | <ski> | @let graph :: Arrow ar => ar a b -> ar a (a,b); graph f = (Control.Category.id &&& f); cograph :: ArrowChoice ar => ar a b -> ar (Either a b) b; cograph f = (f ||| Control.Category.id) |
| 2023-03-22 11:25:09 +0100 | <lambdabot> | Defined. |
| 2023-03-22 11:25:26 +0100 | <geekosaur> | and yes, I think this is the main reason System F has type level lambdas but they refuse to expose them in "user level" Haskell |
| 2023-03-22 11:25:32 +0100 | lagash | (lagash@lagash.shelltalk.net) |
| 2023-03-22 11:25:36 +0100 | <ski> | @type uncurry (flip graph) |
| 2023-03-22 11:25:38 +0100 | <lambdabot> | (b1, b1 -> b2) -> (b1, b2) |
| 2023-03-22 11:26:01 +0100 | jmdaemon | (~jmdaemon@user/jmdaemon) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2023-03-22 11:26:33 +0100 | <tomsmeding> | ski: how should I read 'graph' |
| 2023-03-22 11:26:59 +0100 | <ski> | "the graph of" ? |
| 2023-03-22 11:27:14 +0100 | <tomsmeding> | oh in that sense |
| 2023-03-22 11:27:22 +0100 | <tomsmeding> | I was thinking about a graph as in nodes and edges :) |
| 2023-03-22 11:28:04 +0100 | <ski> | if `m : a >---> b' is a morphism, then `graph f : a >---> a * b' is a subobject of `a * b', the "graph", being "the subobject of all pairs `(x,y)' with `m x = y' |
| 2023-03-22 11:28:15 +0100 | <tomsmeding> | yeah |
| 2023-03-22 11:28:28 +0100 | <tomsmeding> | " |
| 2023-03-22 11:29:14 +0100 | <ski> | likewise, `cograph f' is a quotient object of `a + b', which can be thought of as a table of all possible values in `a' and corresponding values in `b', divides into equivalence classes (all elements in `a' that map to each particular element in `b') |
| 2023-03-22 11:34:01 +0100 | gdr3941 | (~user@2601:483:4800:5740:c8ab:629d:14a4:490e) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2023-03-22 11:36:10 +0100 | L29Ah | (~L29Ah@wikipedia/L29Ah) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) |
| 2023-03-22 11:36:12 +0100 | acidjnk_new | (~acidjnk@p200300d6e715c47808d935385f232197.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2023-03-22 11:37:23 +0100 | L29Ah | (~L29Ah@wikipedia/L29Ah) |
| 2023-03-22 11:41:16 +0100 | lottaquestions | (~nick@2607:fa49:503e:7100:4c62:c5e:597d:9a4c) |
| 2023-03-22 11:44:25 +0100 | lottaquestions | (~nick@2607:fa49:503e:7100:4c62:c5e:597d:9a4c) (Client Quit) |
| 2023-03-22 11:45:43 +0100 | lottaquestions | (~nick@2607:fa49:503e:7100:a22c:2ef:745f:68be) |
| 2023-03-22 11:46:06 +0100 | <jeeger> | tomsmeding: Here's a definition in typescript: https://www.typescriptlang.org/play?#code/KYOwrgtgBAKsDOAXAjFA3gKCtqB5AcgKIA0WOMA6rqTrABIBKhhGAvhq… |
| 2023-03-22 11:46:20 +0100 | mokee | (~mokee@37.228.215.65) |
| 2023-03-22 11:46:44 +0100 | gdr3941 | (~user@2601:483:4800:5740:c8ab:629d:14a4:490e) |
| 2023-03-22 11:46:54 +0100 | __monty__ | (~toonn@user/toonn) |
| 2023-03-22 11:48:51 +0100 | lagash | (lagash@lagash.shelltalk.net) (Quit: ZNC - https://znc.in) |
| 2023-03-22 11:51:08 +0100 | acidjnk_new | (~acidjnk@p200300d6e715c4786002adc4cda1b398.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 2023-03-22 11:56:30 +0100 | <tomsmeding> | jeeger: I see |
| 2023-03-22 11:57:15 +0100 | lagash | (lagash@lagash.shelltalk.net) |
| 2023-03-22 11:57:18 +0100 | <tomsmeding> | that '[Property in ...]: A' construction is something that Haskell might be able to express, but the 'keyof T' is something you get with generics only |
| 2023-03-22 11:57:49 +0100 | gnalzo | (~gnalzo@2a01:e0a:498:fd50:fcc6:bb5d:489a:ce8c) (Quit: WeeChat 3.8) |
| 2023-03-22 11:58:15 +0100 | <jeeger> | Yeah, I was looking at Generics, and I *kinda* understand how it works, but getting something specific out of that made my head hurt (might also be because I'm still kinda sick☺) |
| 2023-03-22 12:01:27 +0100 | vglfr | (~vglfr@88.155.10.218) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) |
| 2023-03-22 12:01:34 +0100 | kuribas | (~user@ip-188-118-57-242.reverse.destiny.be) |
| 2023-03-22 12:11:27 +0100 | <tomsmeding> | jeeger: https://play.haskell.org/saved/H0eowpsB |
| 2023-03-22 12:11:40 +0100 | <tomsmeding> | that EnumValues type family could also just return a Nat |
| 2023-03-22 12:12:06 +0100 | <tomsmeding> | if you load that file into ghci and do ':k! EnumValues Test1' you'll see that it collected the constructor names as well |
| 2023-03-22 12:12:08 +0100 | ubert1 | (~Thunderbi@2a02:8109:abc0:6434:e5ec:628b:241e:1908) |
| 2023-03-22 12:13:29 +0100 | <tomsmeding> | but ghc typelits Nat values are not inductive so then OneForEach would be annoying to define :p |
| 2023-03-22 12:13:40 +0100 | <tomsmeding> | but it could return a 'type data Nat = Z | S Z' just fine |
| 2023-03-22 12:14:59 +0100 | <jeeger> | tomsmeding: Wow, awesome. I'll spend some time digesting that, thanks! |
| 2023-03-22 12:16:35 +0100 | xff0x | (~xff0x@ai098135.d.east.v6connect.net) |
| 2023-03-22 12:16:54 +0100 | <tomsmeding> | jeeger: the typical way to consume generics is to make a typeclass over those Rep values. But in this case I just needed the info on the type level, so I could make do with a type family |
| 2023-03-22 12:16:58 +0100 | mikoto-chan | (~mikoto-ch@d1ln1lpjnm8t59ntyyz-4.rev.dnainternet.fi) |
| 2023-03-22 12:17:20 +0100 | <tomsmeding> | jeeger: if you want to find out what things to match on, an easy way to get an example is to type ':k! Rep Test1' in ghci |
| 2023-03-22 12:17:48 +0100 | <tomsmeding> | this you can then cross-reference back to the GHC.Generics documentation |
| 2023-03-22 12:20:25 +0100 | lagash | (lagash@lagash.shelltalk.net) (Quit: ZNC - https://znc.in) |
| 2023-03-22 12:21:33 +0100 | <tomsmeding> | jeeger: the Nat version: https://play.haskell.org/saved/gib5e9KK (use ghc 9.6.1) |
| 2023-03-22 12:28:49 +0100 | lagash | (lagash@lagash.shelltalk.net) |
| 2023-03-22 12:29:44 +0100 | thyriaen | (~thyriaen@2a01:aea0:dd4:5328:6245:cbff:fe9f:48b1) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2023-03-22 12:32:31 +0100 | jeeger | (~user@2001:9e8:329b:8700:2d3c:1563:cb1a:6a83) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 2023-03-22 12:47:23 +0100 | gensyst | (gensyst@user/gensyst) (Quit: Leaving) |
| 2023-03-22 12:51:32 +0100 | Midjak | (~Midjak@82.66.147.146) |
| 2023-03-22 12:51:59 +0100 | gdr3941 | (~user@2601:483:4800:5740:c8ab:629d:14a4:490e) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) |
| 2023-03-22 12:53:34 +0100 | CiaoSen | (~Jura@p200300c9571fe6002a3a4dfffe84dbd5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2023-03-22 12:55:18 +0100 | vglfr | (~vglfr@88.155.10.218) |
| 2023-03-22 12:59:12 +0100 | mmhat | (~mmh@p200300f1c715f7c3ee086bfffe095315.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 2023-03-22 13:00:19 +0100 | gdr3941 | (~user@2601:483:4800:5740:c8ab:629d:14a4:490e) |
| 2023-03-22 13:07:01 +0100 | gdr3941 | (~user@2601:483:4800:5740:c8ab:629d:14a4:490e) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2023-03-22 13:09:19 +0100 | Vq | (~vq@90-227-192-206-no77.tbcn.telia.com) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 2023-03-22 13:10:24 +0100 | kenran | (~user@user/kenran) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2023-03-22 13:10:56 +0100 | Vq | (~vq@90-227-192-206-no77.tbcn.telia.com) |
| 2023-03-22 13:18:04 +0100 | gdr3941 | (~user@2601:483:4800:5740:c8ab:629d:14a4:490e) |
| 2023-03-22 13:21:12 +0100 | L29Ah | (~L29Ah@wikipedia/L29Ah) () |
| 2023-03-22 13:26:28 +0100 | Nosrep | (~Nosrep@user/nosrep) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2023-03-22 13:26:35 +0100 | mikoto-chan | (~mikoto-ch@d1ln1lpjnm8t59ntyyz-4.rev.dnainternet.fi) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 2023-03-22 13:34:07 +0100 | [itchyjunk] | (~itchyjunk@user/itchyjunk/x-7353470) |
| 2023-03-22 13:35:20 +0100 | lagash | (lagash@lagash.shelltalk.net) (Quit: ZNC - https://znc.in) |
| 2023-03-22 13:36:46 +0100 | lagash | (lagash@lagash.shelltalk.net) |
| 2023-03-22 13:37:29 +0100 | gurkenglas | (~gurkengla@dynamic-089-204-139-175.89.204.139.pool.telefonica.de) (Quit: Lost terminal) |
| 2023-03-22 13:38:01 +0100 | gurkenglas | (~gurkengla@dynamic-089-204-139-175.89.204.139.pool.telefonica.de) |
| 2023-03-22 13:40:23 +0100 | L29Ah | (~L29Ah@wikipedia/L29Ah) |
| 2023-03-22 13:40:53 +0100 | enoq | (~enoq@2a05:1141:1f5:5600:b9c9:721a:599:bfe7) |
| 2023-03-22 13:45:00 +0100 | kenran | (~user@user/kenran) |
| 2023-03-22 13:46:31 +0100 | AlexZenon | (~alzenon@178.34.162.167) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2023-03-22 13:47:18 +0100 | bitdex | (~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex) (Quit: = "") |
| 2023-03-22 13:47:55 +0100 | Alex_test | (~al_test@178.34.162.167) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 2023-03-22 13:48:01 +0100 | AlexNoo | (~AlexNoo@178.34.162.167) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2023-03-22 13:49:41 +0100 | zer0bitz | (~zer0bitz@2001:2003:f443:d600:a84c:7465:34bc:646a) |
| 2023-03-22 13:52:56 +0100 | <pkal> | Does ghcup allow for downloading the source of base? I'd like to inspect how some of the functions are defined |
| 2023-03-22 13:53:33 +0100 | gdr3941 | (~user@2601:483:4800:5740:c8ab:629d:14a4:490e) (ERC 5.4 (IRC client for GNU Emacs 28.2)) |
| 2023-03-22 13:53:40 +0100 | <pkal> | All I can find are the HTML sources, that don't make sense when I'm in Emacs |
| 2023-03-22 13:59:35 +0100 | albet70 | (~xxx@2400:8902::f03c:92ff:fe60:98d8) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2023-03-22 13:59:46 +0100 | lagash | (lagash@lagash.shelltalk.net) (Quit: ZNC - https://znc.in) |
| 2023-03-22 14:01:05 +0100 | jeeger | (~user@2001:9e8:329b:8700:2d3c:1563:cb1a:6a83) |
| 2023-03-22 14:01:37 +0100 | lagash | (lagash@lagash.shelltalk.net) |
| 2023-03-22 14:04:19 +0100 | zer0bitz | (~zer0bitz@2001:2003:f443:d600:a84c:7465:34bc:646a) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2023-03-22 14:05:14 +0100 | <maerwald[m]> | pkal: the source is on hackage |
| 2023-03-22 14:05:14 +0100 | <maerwald[m]> | `cabal unpack base` |
| 2023-03-22 14:05:42 +0100 | albet70 | (~xxx@2400:8902::f03c:92ff:fe60:98d8) |
| 2023-03-22 14:06:50 +0100 | zer0bitz | (~zer0bitz@2001:2003:f443:d600:70b6:7c91:80bd:8cc8) |
| 2023-03-22 14:09:44 +0100 | phma | (~phma@host-67-44-208-67.hnremote.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2023-03-22 14:10:36 +0100 | phma | (~phma@2001:5b0:211f:b388:18f6:45b8:11f7:3fc4) |
| 2023-03-22 14:17:57 +0100 | madjestic | (~madjestic@88-159-247-120.fixed.kpn.net) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 2023-03-22 14:29:45 +0100 | madjestic | (~madjestic@88-159-247-120.fixed.kpn.net) |
| 2023-03-22 14:36:43 +0100 | jeeger | (~user@2001:9e8:329b:8700:2d3c:1563:cb1a:6a83) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 2023-03-22 14:37:52 +0100 | jero98772 | (~jero98772@2800:484:1d80:d8ce:efcc:cbb3:7f2a:6dff) |
| 2023-03-22 14:42:24 +0100 | talismanick | (~talismani@2601:200:c000:f7a0::5321) |
| 2023-03-22 14:43:27 +0100 | <talismanick> | Under "init" in ~/.cabal/config, how do I set the default test suite executable to "Spec.hs"? |
| 2023-03-22 14:43:45 +0100 | <talismanick> | err, main module |
| 2023-03-22 14:45:49 +0100 | mmhat | (~mmh@p200300f1c715f7c3ee086bfffe095315.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Quit: WeeChat 3.8) |
| 2023-03-22 14:45:59 +0100 | gurkenglas | (~gurkengla@dynamic-089-204-139-175.89.204.139.pool.telefonica.de) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 2023-03-22 14:48:35 +0100 | nate4 | (~nate@98.45.169.16) |
| 2023-03-22 14:53:43 +0100 | nate4 | (~nate@98.45.169.16) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 2023-03-22 14:57:01 +0100 | vglfr | (~vglfr@88.155.10.218) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2023-03-22 15:01:31 +0100 | jmdaemon | (~jmdaemon@user/jmdaemon) |
| 2023-03-22 15:04:01 +0100 | acidjnk_new | (~acidjnk@p200300d6e715c4786002adc4cda1b398.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2023-03-22 15:06:31 +0100 | jmdaemon | (~jmdaemon@user/jmdaemon) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2023-03-22 15:07:42 +0100 | tromp | (~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) |
| 2023-03-22 15:08:10 +0100 | lagash | (lagash@lagash.shelltalk.net) (Quit: ZNC - https://znc.in) |
| 2023-03-22 15:09:55 +0100 | lagash | (lagash@lagash.shelltalk.net) |
| 2023-03-22 15:11:21 +0100 | sammelweis | (~quassel@2601:401:8200:2d4c:bd9:d04c:7f69:eb10) (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.) |
| 2023-03-22 15:13:13 +0100 | sammelweis | (~quassel@2601:401:8200:2d4c:bd9:d04c:7f69:eb10) |
| 2023-03-22 15:18:55 +0100 | sagax | (~sagax_nb@user/sagax) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 2023-03-22 15:21:15 +0100 | Guest72 | (~Guest72@ext-1-398.eduroam.chalmers.se) |
| 2023-03-22 15:22:06 +0100 | aztex | (~aztex@ext-1-370.eduroam.chalmers.se) |
| 2023-03-22 15:24:40 +0100 | <Guest72> | Hi! I have my own exception type, which I got the Exception instance for by following the instructions in Control.Exception (e.g just writing instance Exception MyException). |
| 2023-03-22 15:24:40 +0100 | <Guest72> | I am using forkIO to fork parallel threads. Those threads use try to detect if exceptions of my own type was thrown. However. this does not seem to happen. I am raising the exception by (in another thread) calling throwTo tid MyException, where tid is the thread id of the other thread. The exception is never raised. |
| 2023-03-22 15:24:41 +0100 | <Guest72> | If I reuse on of the existing exception types, e.g the UserInterrupt term from the AsyncException type, it works. Does anyone have any idea why this is the case? I would rather use an exception of my own design than a pre-existing one |
| 2023-03-22 15:27:40 +0100 | <c_wraith> | just to verify, you're using throwTo and Exception from base's Control.Exception? |
| 2023-03-22 15:28:47 +0100 | <EvanR> | are you using -threaded runtime |
| 2023-03-22 15:29:05 +0100 | <Guest72> | yes, and yes |
| 2023-03-22 15:30:41 +0100 | <c_wraith> | Then nothing should be different except potentially how your code treats them. |
| 2023-03-22 15:31:11 +0100 | <EvanR> | so you throw an exception at a thread which is trying to catch it or isn't trying to catch it (should crash) |
| 2023-03-22 15:31:28 +0100 | <Guest72> | It is trying to detect is using `try` |
| 2023-03-22 15:31:31 +0100 | <EvanR> | which exceptions are caught depends on Exception instances chosen |
| 2023-03-22 15:31:51 +0100 | <Guest72> | and it does, if I user something like UserInterrupt from AsyncException, but not if I use my own exception type. |
| 2023-03-22 15:32:02 +0100 | <Guest72> | It does? Is this documented somewhere? |
| 2023-03-22 15:32:03 +0100 | <EvanR> | sounds like you are catching the wrong type of exception |
| 2023-03-22 15:32:14 +0100 | <EvanR> | :t try |
| 2023-03-22 15:32:15 +0100 | <lambdabot> | Exception e => IO a -> IO (Either e a) |
| 2023-03-22 15:32:28 +0100 | <dminuoso> | And which exceptions get caught depend on which module you use ffor catching |
| 2023-03-22 15:32:33 +0100 | <EvanR> | depending on e try will catch the exception or it will crash |
| 2023-03-22 15:32:34 +0100 | <c_wraith> | Guest72: it's documented in the type system. try only catches one type of exception |
| 2023-03-22 15:32:46 +0100 | jeeger | (~user@2001:9e8:329b:8700:2d3c:1563:cb1a:6a83) |
| 2023-03-22 15:32:59 +0100 | <dminuoso> | Say, Control.Exception will with all its primitives catch async exceptions, but UnliftIO.Exception or Control.Exception.Safe will not. |
| 2023-03-22 15:33:03 +0100 | <merijn> | c_wraith: Well...debatable ;) |
| 2023-03-22 15:33:06 +0100 | <Guest72> | Only one type? It looks to me as if it will catch any exception with an instance for Exception |
| 2023-03-22 15:33:13 +0100 | <merijn> | Considering you can do subclassing to catch multiple things :p |
| 2023-03-22 15:33:16 +0100 | <dminuoso> | (the latter ones can only acknowledge but not recover from an async exception) |
| 2023-03-22 15:33:25 +0100 | lagash | (lagash@lagash.shelltalk.net) (Quit: ZNC - https://znc.in) |
| 2023-03-22 15:33:31 +0100 | <EvanR> | Guest72, any exception type e, but only 1 at a time and it's your choice |
| 2023-03-22 15:33:41 +0100 | <EvanR> | not all exception types at once no, that'd be bad anyway |
| 2023-03-22 15:33:44 +0100 | <dminuoso> | well to be fair, merijn's point should be emphaszied here. |
| 2023-03-22 15:33:52 +0100 | Lord_of_Life | (~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 2023-03-22 15:33:53 +0100 | eggplantade | (~Eggplanta@2600:1700:38c5:d800:b104:ea11:1f21:4a05) |
| 2023-03-22 15:33:54 +0100 | <dminuoso> | the IO exceptions model hierarchies, you can catch entire families of exceptions |
| 2023-03-22 15:34:03 +0100 | zmt00 | (~zmt00@user/zmt00) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) |
| 2023-03-22 15:34:11 +0100 | <c_wraith> | Yes, but only one *type* at a time |
| 2023-03-22 15:34:12 +0100 | <merijn> | Nobody ever read the paper on exceptions to actually use that |
| 2023-03-22 15:34:16 +0100 | <merijn> | But you can :p |
| 2023-03-22 15:34:22 +0100 | <EvanR> | even if you model hierarchies it still only catches 1 *type* at a time |
| 2023-03-22 15:34:29 +0100 | <dminuoso> | "type" fsvo of "type" |
| 2023-03-22 15:34:36 +0100 | <EvanR> | the hierarchy isn't expressed in the type system itself |
| 2023-03-22 15:34:38 +0100 | <c_wraith> | type for the value the type system uses. :P |
| 2023-03-22 15:34:49 +0100 | <Guest72> | What would be the correct way to do what I want? |
| 2023-03-22 15:34:53 +0100 | <dminuoso> | Well if by "one type" you mean one "tree of exceptions" *shrugs* |
| 2023-03-22 15:34:59 +0100 | <Guest72> | I want to create my own exception type and be able to detect it with try |
| 2023-03-22 15:35:00 +0100 | Lord_of_Life | (~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915) |
| 2023-03-22 15:35:06 +0100 | <c_wraith> | dminuoso: the type system doesn't know it's a tree |
| 2023-03-22 15:35:15 +0100 | <EvanR> | Guest72, put type signature to make sure MyExceptionType is what you're working with |
| 2023-03-22 15:35:17 +0100 | <dminuoso> | c_wraith: it doesnt have to? |
| 2023-03-22 15:35:28 +0100 | <dminuoso> | c_wraith: `catch` will still catch anything that is subclassed under it. |
| 2023-03-22 15:35:46 +0100 | <Guest72> | I thought pattern matching would tell Haskell to infer the correct type EvanR |
| 2023-03-22 15:35:48 +0100 | <mauke> | Guest72: show your code first |
| 2023-03-22 15:36:02 +0100 | <dminuoso> | Guest72: it would indeed. |
| 2023-03-22 15:36:07 +0100 | <mauke> | I need to run it to understand the issue |
| 2023-03-22 15:36:10 +0100 | <Guest72> | try io >>= \case ... -- here I pattern match on my specific term |
| 2023-03-22 15:36:12 +0100 | zmt00 | (~zmt00@user/zmt00) |
| 2023-03-22 15:36:31 +0100 | <EvanR> | Guest72, that sounds like dynamic typing, which is not how case analysis works. Of course, the exception system does use a form of dynamic typing but that doesn't help here |
| 2023-03-22 15:36:39 +0100 | <Guest72> | well, I match on `Right a` and `Left MyException` |
| 2023-03-22 15:37:04 +0100 | <dminuoso> | Guest72: Ah that's not really what we mean by exceptions though. |
| 2023-03-22 15:37:08 +0100 | <EvanR> | case determines values not types. (Unless you use GADTs. And that's irrelevant here. And still doesn't determine types at runtime) |
| 2023-03-22 15:37:09 +0100 | <dminuoso> | The term is terribly overloaded. |
| 2023-03-22 15:37:21 +0100 | lagash | (lagash@lagash.shelltalk.net) |
| 2023-03-22 15:37:28 +0100 | <dminuoso> | We were previously talking about IO exceptions that your raise via throwIO and catch via Control.Exception |
| 2023-03-22 15:37:33 +0100 | <dminuoso> | (or some similar module) |
| 2023-03-22 15:37:35 +0100 | <Guest72> | This case will determine that the type is `Left whatever MyException` |
| 2023-03-22 15:37:36 +0100 | albet70 | (~xxx@2400:8902::f03c:92ff:fe60:98d8) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2023-03-22 15:37:45 +0100 | <Guest72> | No, I said this |
| 2023-03-22 15:37:51 +0100 | <EvanR> | the type is still Either MyException a which is the important part |
| 2023-03-22 15:37:52 +0100 | <dminuoso> | Guest72: share your code. |
| 2023-03-22 15:38:01 +0100 | eggplantade | (~Eggplanta@2600:1700:38c5:d800:b104:ea11:1f21:4a05) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2023-03-22 15:38:02 +0100 | <Guest72> | I am trying to create my own exception etc, which does not work, but if I swap my exception out for one of the built in ones, it works |
| 2023-03-22 15:38:05 +0100 | <Guest72> | At runtime |
| 2023-03-22 15:38:09 +0100 | <EvanR> | yeah, show code |
| 2023-03-22 15:38:21 +0100 | <c_wraith> | it's almost certain something in your code is causing the wrong type to be inferred |
| 2023-03-22 15:38:22 +0100 | <aztex> | yeah its very hard to debug without seeing the code man |
| 2023-03-22 15:38:25 +0100 | <Guest72> | How do I share code easiest here? Just paste it in? |
| 2023-03-22 15:38:37 +0100 | <mauke> | https://paste.tomsmeding.com |
| 2023-03-22 15:39:28 +0100 | <Guest72> | Give me a minute |
| 2023-03-22 15:39:29 +0100 | <dminuoso> | I found being sneaky and relying on type inference to guide resolution might look cool first, but its really headache inducing and brittle |
| 2023-03-22 15:40:04 +0100 | <EvanR> | Exceptions don't do defaulting right so at least there's that |
| 2023-03-22 15:40:17 +0100 | <EvanR> | you have to pick an exception |
| 2023-03-22 15:41:35 +0100 | <c_wraith> | Correct. There's no defaulting, even with -XExtendedDefaultRules |
| 2023-03-22 15:41:38 +0100 | <dminuoso> | Even then, the thing is relying on type inference means if you swap some surrounding code it can cause inference to do something different |
| 2023-03-22 15:41:52 +0100 | <dminuoso> | and if that somethign different ends up type checking but doing the wrong thing, you tend to have a bad day |
| 2023-03-22 15:42:22 +0100 | <c_wraith> | Yeah, you should almost always have explicit type annotations on exception-handling stuff somewhere. |
| 2023-03-22 15:42:36 +0100 | <Guest72> | https://paste.tomsmeding.com/FcP6oRrP |
| 2023-03-22 15:42:39 +0100 | <Guest72> | I hope this is enough |
| 2023-03-22 15:42:50 +0100 | <dminuoso> | c_wraith: My main annoyance is just that for exceptions it often required ScopedTypeVariables |
| 2023-03-22 15:43:02 +0100 | <dminuoso> | So that creates some friction when I have to add a language extension at the top of the file first for that. |
| 2023-03-22 15:43:44 +0100 | albet70 | (~xxx@2400:8902::f03c:92ff:fe60:98d8) |
| 2023-03-22 15:43:51 +0100 | <EvanR> | wait wait go back to what "doesn't work" means |
| 2023-03-22 15:43:51 +0100 | <c_wraith> | Guest72: err.. that code will explicitly just ignore your exception, while any other exception type will terminate it |
| 2023-03-22 15:43:56 +0100 | <mauke> | Guest72: Not in scope: type constructor or class ‘Exception’ |
| 2023-03-22 15:44:03 +0100 | <EvanR> | your code tries to go into an infinite loop, is that what it's doing? xD |
| 2023-03-22 15:44:27 +0100 | YoungFrog | (~youngfrog@39.129-180-91.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 2023-03-22 15:44:39 +0100 | <EvanR> | more specific about the intended result and the experimental result |
| 2023-03-22 15:45:00 +0100 | jmdaemon | (~jmdaemon@user/jmdaemon) |
| 2023-03-22 15:45:08 +0100 | <Guest72> | c_wraith it is not terminated by another exception, as mentioned in the comment. If I use e.g AsyncException it works as intended |
| 2023-03-22 15:45:11 +0100 | <Guest72> | EvanR yes |
| 2023-03-22 15:45:19 +0100 | <EvanR> | then it's not not working |
| 2023-03-22 15:45:36 +0100 | <EvanR> | you told it to catch the exception and go back into the try |
| 2023-03-22 15:45:40 +0100 | <c_wraith> | Yeah, I'm getting lost on what "as intended" means. |
| 2023-03-22 15:45:51 +0100 | <Guest72> | by as intended I mean |
| 2023-03-22 15:45:57 +0100 | acidjnk_new | (~acidjnk@p200300d6e715c478d15f8d4e2e4105b1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 2023-03-22 15:46:03 +0100 | <c_wraith> | because catching your specific exception type, ignoring it, and restarting... that's not what I'd expect |
| 2023-03-22 15:46:08 +0100 | <Guest72> | if I throw the exception, it should terminate whatever try is doing and then recurse into defHandler again, entering try anew |
| 2023-03-22 15:46:19 +0100 | <Guest72> | if I use my OWN exception, the exception is not detected in try |
| 2023-03-22 15:46:30 +0100 | <c_wraith> | What does "not detected" mean? |
| 2023-03-22 15:46:36 +0100 | <EvanR> | what is "as intended" ? |
| 2023-03-22 15:46:37 +0100 | <Guest72> | that nothing happens? |
| 2023-03-22 15:46:45 +0100 | <mauke> | I repeat: <mauke> I need to run it to understand the issue |
| 2023-03-22 15:46:48 +0100 | <dminuoso> | Guest72: please share your code. |
| 2023-03-22 15:46:59 +0100 | <dminuoso> | Guest72: Your description of both your code and the problem is too vague. |
| 2023-03-22 15:47:08 +0100 | <c_wraith> | like, you're not even logging that you're in the exception handler. you have no visibility into what's going on |
| 2023-03-22 15:47:11 +0100 | <EvanR> | nothing happens = exception is caught and it loops back into the try |
| 2023-03-22 15:47:15 +0100 | <dminuoso> | Ohh nevermind pardon me |
| 2023-03-22 15:47:19 +0100 | <Guest72> | c_wraith that is not important for me |
| 2023-03-22 15:47:20 +0100 | <dminuoso> | I didnt see it in the text above |
| 2023-03-22 15:47:32 +0100 | <c_wraith> | Guest72: I bet it is |
| 2023-03-22 15:47:37 +0100 | <EvanR> | it seems like "not working" = "working" here |
| 2023-03-22 15:47:41 +0100 | <dminuoso> | Guest72: Which `try` do you use? |
| 2023-03-22 15:47:45 +0100 | <dminuoso> | Guest72: where is it imported from? |
| 2023-03-22 15:47:47 +0100 | ddellacosta | (~ddellacos@146.70.168.100) |
| 2023-03-22 15:47:50 +0100 | <Guest72> | Control.Exception.try dminuoso |
| 2023-03-22 15:48:31 +0100 | <dminuoso> | Guest72: And its not Control.Exception.Safe or UnliftIO.Exception? Are you sure about that? |
| 2023-03-22 15:48:32 +0100 | <EvanR> | if by detect you mean catch the exception, and you realize it, you should print something |
| 2023-03-22 15:48:47 +0100 | MonsoonSecrecy | (f78c86e960@2604:bf00:561:2000::f99) (Remote host closed the connection) |
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| 2023-03-22 15:48:48 +0100 | fvr | (ef3e56ca8b@2604:bf00:561:2000::3c4) (Write error: Connection reset by peer) |
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| 2023-03-22 15:48:48 +0100 | samhh | (7569f027cf@2604:bf00:561:2000::e4) (Remote host closed the connection) |
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| 2023-03-22 15:48:48 +0100 | sm2n | (ae95cb1267@user/sm2n) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2023-03-22 15:48:48 +0100 | filwisher | (2e6936c793@2604:bf00:561:2000::170) (Remote host closed the connection) |
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| 2023-03-22 15:48:48 +0100 | lukec | (9dfd4d094e@2604:bf00:561:2000::10e) (Write error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2023-03-22 15:48:48 +0100 | henrytill | (e0180937c3@2604:bf00:561:2000::e8c) (Write error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2023-03-22 15:48:49 +0100 | fluffyballoon | (45ce440a48@2604:bf00:561:2000::e2) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2023-03-22 15:49:05 +0100 | <c_wraith> | Guest72: it seems very likely you're in a situation where the issue is not where you think it is, and you should be verifying your assumptions |
| 2023-03-22 15:49:28 +0100 | <dminuoso> | Guest72: Reason Im asking is that there's a bunch of libraries that reimplement Control.Exception with slightly altered behavior, where any combinator that can *recover* from an exception explicitly ignores async exceptions (including but not limited to try) |
| 2023-03-22 15:49:28 +0100 | <mauke> | as with most bugs :-) |
| 2023-03-22 15:49:29 +0100 | <c_wraith> | Guest72: verifying what branch you end up in is a significant part of that. |
| 2023-03-22 15:50:08 +0100 | ggb | (a62ffbaf4f@2604:bf00:561:2000::3ac) |
| 2023-03-22 15:50:08 +0100 | filwisher | (2e6936c793@2604:bf00:561:2000::170) |
| 2023-03-22 15:50:08 +0100 | bsima1 | (9d7e39c8ad@2604:bf00:561:2000::dd) |
| 2023-03-22 15:50:09 +0100 | lukec | (9dfd4d094e@2604:bf00:561:2000::10e) |
| 2023-03-22 15:50:11 +0100 | <Guest72> | c_wraith you are getting hung up on why I want to do this or whatever, instead of trying to help me? In the code I sent you I removed some parts that I feel add no information, such as e.g logging messages. I am logging stuff here, it's just not important when I am describing my problem to you |
| 2023-03-22 15:50:14 +0100 | <c_wraith> | dminuoso: yeah, that was my first thought, and why I double-checked that it was Control.Exception from base |
| 2023-03-22 15:50:26 +0100 | ymherklotz | (cb2c9cfbdd@2604:bf00:561:2000::29a) |
| 2023-03-22 15:50:35 +0100 | henrytill | (e0180937c3@2604:bf00:561:2000::e8c) |
| 2023-03-22 15:50:35 +0100 | samhh | (7569f027cf@2604:bf00:561:2000::e4) |
| 2023-03-22 15:50:35 +0100 | jkoshy | (99b9359beb@user/jkoshy) |
| 2023-03-22 15:50:35 +0100 | fvr | (ef3e56ca8b@2604:bf00:561:2000::3c4) |
| 2023-03-22 15:50:36 +0100 | jleightcap | (7bc4014b62@user/jleightcap) |
| 2023-03-22 15:50:37 +0100 | <Guest72> | I am simply importing Control.Exception and Control.Concurrent, nothing more |
| 2023-03-22 15:50:56 +0100 | <dminuoso> | Guest72: okay, can you make a small reproducer? |
| 2023-03-22 15:51:12 +0100 | <dminuoso> | Something that will compile on our machines |
| 2023-03-22 15:51:18 +0100 | JoelMcCracken | (5ea8252fbb@2604:bf00:561:2000::10e3) |
| 2023-03-22 15:51:19 +0100 | arcadewise | (52968ed80d@2604:bf00:561:2000::3df) |
| 2023-03-22 15:51:25 +0100 | fluffyballoon | (45ce440a48@2604:bf00:561:2000::e2) |
| 2023-03-22 15:51:25 +0100 | MonsoonSecrecy | (f78c86e960@2604:bf00:561:2000::f99) |
| 2023-03-22 15:51:25 +0100 | probie | (cc0b34050a@user/probie) |
| 2023-03-22 15:51:26 +0100 | b0o | (0e4a0bf4c9@2604:bf00:561:2000::1bf) |
| 2023-03-22 15:51:28 +0100 | whereiseveryone | (206ba86c98@2604:bf00:561:2000::2e4) |
| 2023-03-22 15:51:29 +0100 | Ankhers | (e99e97ef8e@2604:bf00:561:2000::2a2) |
| 2023-03-22 15:51:29 +0100 | n1essa | (3d621153a5@2604:bf00:561:2000::df7) |
| 2023-03-22 15:51:29 +0100 | cpli | (77fc530071@2604:bf00:561:2000::252) |
| 2023-03-22 15:51:30 +0100 | shreyasminocha | (51fdc93eda@user/shreyasminocha) |
| 2023-03-22 15:51:34 +0100 | <Guest72> | I never end up in the `Left MyException` branch when I use my own exception type, but if I use e.g the existing `AsyncException` from `Control.Exception.Base`, i do end up there. I am merely trying to understand why |
| 2023-03-22 15:51:38 +0100 | sus | (1b7af6299f@user/zeromomentum) |
| 2023-03-22 15:51:38 +0100 | sm2n | (ae95cb1267@user/sm2n) |
| 2023-03-22 15:51:41 +0100 | evanrelf | (3addc196af@2604:bf00:561:2000::f0) |
| 2023-03-22 15:51:47 +0100 | chaitlatte0 | (ea29c0bb16@user/chaitlatte0) |
| 2023-03-22 15:51:54 +0100 | jakzale | (6291399afa@user/jakzale) |
| 2023-03-22 15:51:57 +0100 | <mauke> | Guest72: why are you paraphrasing what you think your code is doing instead of showing us runnable code? this is wasted effort |
| 2023-03-22 15:52:16 +0100 | <Guest72> | I have removed print statements? |
| 2023-03-22 15:52:16 +0100 | <c_wraith> | It's also worth being aware that throwTo just won't kill a thread in some states. If it's not in an (unmasked) blocking operation or doing allocation, the thread will never see that it has a pending exception |
| 2023-03-22 15:52:32 +0100 | <Guest72> | c_wraith I am aware of this |
| 2023-03-22 15:52:36 +0100 | <mauke> | note: you have a bug you don't understand, so "what you think your code is doing" by definition doesn't match reality |
| 2023-03-22 15:53:18 +0100 | <dminuoso> | Arguably that's the foundation of *all* bugs. |
| 2023-03-22 15:53:32 +0100 | <dminuoso> | If you have a bug, one or multiple expecations are wrong. |
| 2023-03-22 15:54:06 +0100 | <dminuoso> | And if you fail to explain your bug, you must re-examine more of your axioms |
| 2023-03-22 15:54:09 +0100 | <c_wraith> | Guest72: We know that you're trying to understand what's going on, but your description of the problem doesn't match the way things can go wrong. The only conclusion this leaves for us is that your description is missing something important. |
| 2023-03-22 15:54:13 +0100 | <dminuoso> | One of your axioms is wrong. |
| 2023-03-22 15:54:19 +0100 | Guest72 | (~Guest72@ext-1-398.eduroam.chalmers.se) (Quit: Client closed) |
| 2023-03-22 15:54:50 +0100 | <EvanR> | Guest72, just to be clear. I tried your code, completing the missing frame as I surmised, and it does exactly what I thought |
| 2023-03-22 15:55:05 +0100 | <c_wraith> | well. some people would rather quit than understand, I suppose |
| 2023-03-22 15:55:08 +0100 | <EvanR> | seems like there's confusion about what it's supposed to do |
| 2023-03-22 15:55:14 +0100 | <EvanR> | blast |
| 2023-03-22 15:56:26 +0100 | wroathe | (~wroathe@207-153-38-140.fttp.usinternet.com) |
| 2023-03-22 15:56:27 +0100 | wroathe | (~wroathe@207-153-38-140.fttp.usinternet.com) (Changing host) |
| 2023-03-22 15:56:27 +0100 | wroathe | (~wroathe@user/wroathe) |
| 2023-03-22 15:57:43 +0100 | jmorris | (uid537181@id-537181.uxbridge.irccloud.com) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) |
| 2023-03-22 15:59:51 +0100 | <EvanR> | one weirdness I did run into when trying to reproduce "the problem" was sometimes the exception handler happens before the async exception gets thrown, causing "nothing to happen (for real)" |
| 2023-03-22 15:59:55 +0100 | <pkal> | maerwald[m]: HLS doesn't appear to notice that I have downloaded base via cabal? |
| 2023-03-22 16:00:14 +0100 | <EvanR> | er, the exception gets throw before the exception handler is setup |
| 2023-03-22 16:02:10 +0100 | jmdaemon | (~jmdaemon@user/jmdaemon) (Quit: ZNC 1.8.2 - https://znc.in) |
| 2023-03-22 16:02:29 +0100 | jmdaemon | (~jmdaemon@user/jmdaemon) |
| 2023-03-22 16:05:14 +0100 | <c_wraith> | pkal: wait, what? you can't in any practical sense download base via cabal |
| 2023-03-22 16:05:21 +0100 | <chreekat> | pkal: base is locked to ghc - you might be able to download a different one, but you'll always end up using the one that comes with ghc |
| 2023-03-22 16:06:04 +0100 | <pkal> | I don't mean to compile it, I just want to be able to jump to the source of some definitions |
| 2023-03-22 16:06:31 +0100 | <dminuoso> | Ohh |
| 2023-03-22 16:06:37 +0100 | <EvanR> | I've been looking at ghc github for that |
| 2023-03-22 16:06:40 +0100 | <pkal> | Nevermind, I noticed it just dumped the source into my home directory |
| 2023-03-22 16:06:41 +0100 | <dminuoso> | You want HLS to jump to a definition into the base package? |
| 2023-03-22 16:06:50 +0100 | <pkal> | Yes. |
| 2023-03-22 16:06:54 +0100 | <dminuoso> | That would be cool. |
| 2023-03-22 16:07:11 +0100 | <pkal> | That doesn't sound like there is some easy solution ^^ |
| 2023-03-22 16:07:27 +0100 | <dminuoso> | That would be something you probably best discuss in #haskell-language-server |
| 2023-03-22 16:07:42 +0100 | <dminuoso> | It's worth a feature request at least. |
| 2023-03-22 16:08:05 +0100 | <pkal> | OK, I didn't know about that channel |
| 2023-03-22 16:08:25 +0100 | shriekingnoise | (~shrieking@186.137.175.87) |
| 2023-03-22 16:08:31 +0100 | <pkal> | So wait, there is no support for LSP support across multiple projects (say a main package and its dependencies)? |
| 2023-03-22 16:08:53 +0100 | <dminuoso> | pkal: Given the current discussions, it might be a feature that wont have much longetivity |
| 2023-03-22 16:09:00 +0100 | <Hecate> | hello hello |
| 2023-03-22 16:09:12 +0100 | <dminuoso> | pkal: well there is if the dependencies are vendored |
| 2023-03-22 16:09:46 +0100 | <dminuoso> | its just that base is that one package you really cant vendor no mater how hard you try. |
| 2023-03-22 16:10:07 +0100 | <dminuoso> | but perhaps you can still use your hie.yaml to *trick* HLS into believing you |
| 2023-03-22 16:10:07 +0100 | <geekosaur> | it's already a feature request |
| 2023-03-22 16:10:28 +0100 | <chreekat> | yeah I remember somebody else talkign about that recently |
| 2023-03-22 16:10:28 +0100 | <pkal> | dminuoso: you mean like pointing it to a checkout I made somewhere of base? |
| 2023-03-22 16:10:50 +0100 | <chreekat> | I once had that working with codex (https://hackage.haskell.org/package/codex) and it was glorious |
| 2023-03-22 16:11:08 +0100 | madjestic | (~madjestic@88-159-247-120.fixed.kpn.net) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2023-03-22 16:11:50 +0100 | <dminuoso> | pkal: Yeah. I mean doing this via CTAGs/ETAGs is probably your best bet if you want it relatively robust. |
| 2023-03-22 16:11:58 +0100 | <dminuoso> | ^- See chreekat's note as well |
| 2023-03-22 16:12:05 +0100 | <chreekat> | It would be cool if you could point HLS at tags files :) |
| 2023-03-22 16:12:28 +0100 | <pkal> | dminuoso: what is the best way to generate TAGS files for Haskell? |
| 2023-03-22 16:12:44 +0100 | <dminuoso> | hasktags is a popular method |
| 2023-03-22 16:12:47 +0100 | wroathe | (~wroathe@user/wroathe) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 2023-03-22 16:12:49 +0100 | <pkal> | (This looks like I have to teach Emacs how to merge multiple xref sources) |
| 2023-03-22 16:13:11 +0100 | <dminuoso> | haskell-mode even invokes hasktags for you automatically |
| 2023-03-22 16:13:51 +0100 | <pkal> | I might have disabled that because I wanted haskell-mode to use xref and not the custom stuff it provides |
| 2023-03-22 16:14:25 +0100 | gambpang | (~ishipman@172-6-174-68.lightspeed.cicril.sbcglobal.net) |
| 2023-03-22 16:14:53 +0100 | <dminuoso> | pkal: I think some of the problems surrounding this become solveable if a base/ghc-base split occurs. |
| 2023-03-22 16:15:07 +0100 | <dminuoso> | (it's a current ongoing topic) |
| 2023-03-22 16:16:10 +0100 | <pkal> | oh, interesting. didn't know that was going on |
| 2023-03-22 16:17:11 +0100 | <geekosaur> | pkal, "package and its dependencies" (vendored) works fine. non-vendored deps would require HLS to download, unpack, anmd index them, then keep track so it knows when to clean up after itself |
| 2023-03-22 16:18:02 +0100 | <geekosaur> | among other things (it's marked "hard" for a reason) |
| 2023-03-22 16:18:15 +0100 | <geekosaur> | context: https://github.com/haskell/haskell-language-server/issues/708 |
| 2023-03-22 16:20:11 +0100 | <pkal> | geekosaur: thacks for the background |
| 2023-03-22 16:20:41 +0100 | waleee | (~waleee@2001:9b0:21c:4000:5bf9:6515:c030:57b7) |
| 2023-03-22 16:21:18 +0100 | chele | (~chele@user/chele) |
| 2023-03-22 16:24:02 +0100 | aztex | (~aztex@ext-1-370.eduroam.chalmers.se) (Quit: Client closed) |
| 2023-03-22 16:28:07 +0100 | madjestic | (~madjestic@88-159-247-120.fixed.kpn.net) |
| 2023-03-22 16:36:12 +0100 | Sgeo | (~Sgeo@user/sgeo) |
| 2023-03-22 16:36:13 +0100 | jeeger | (~user@2001:9e8:329b:8700:2d3c:1563:cb1a:6a83) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2023-03-22 16:38:16 +0100 | gurkenglas | (~gurkengla@dynamic-089-204-139-175.89.204.139.pool.telefonica.de) |
| 2023-03-22 16:38:43 +0100 | YoungFrog | (~youngfrog@2a02:a03f:ca07:f900:c882:ab84:e989:60c6) |
| 2023-03-22 16:39:36 +0100 | albet70 | (~xxx@2400:8902::f03c:92ff:fe60:98d8) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2023-03-22 16:41:52 +0100 | elevenkb | (~elevenkb@105.186.233.148) |
| 2023-03-22 16:42:24 +0100 | nunggu | (~q@user/nunggu) |
| 2023-03-22 16:45:31 +0100 | tromp | (~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) |
| 2023-03-22 16:45:44 +0100 | albet70 | (~xxx@2400:8902::f03c:92ff:fe60:98d8) |
| 2023-03-22 16:46:19 +0100 | madjestic | (~madjestic@88-159-247-120.fixed.kpn.net) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2023-03-22 16:46:34 +0100 | eggplantade | (~Eggplanta@104-55-37-220.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) |
| 2023-03-22 16:47:27 +0100 | madjestic | (~madjestic@88-159-247-120.fixed.kpn.net) |
| 2023-03-22 16:50:32 +0100 | evanrelf | (3addc196af@2604:bf00:561:2000::f0) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2023-03-22 16:50:32 +0100 | MonsoonSecrecy | (f78c86e960@2604:bf00:561:2000::f99) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2023-03-22 16:50:32 +0100 | sus | (1b7af6299f@user/zeromomentum) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2023-03-22 16:50:32 +0100 | JoelMcCracken | (5ea8252fbb@2604:bf00:561:2000::10e3) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2023-03-22 16:50:32 +0100 | arcadewise | (52968ed80d@2604:bf00:561:2000::3df) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2023-03-22 16:50:33 +0100 | ggb | (a62ffbaf4f@2604:bf00:561:2000::3ac) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2023-03-22 16:50:33 +0100 | whereiseveryone | (206ba86c98@2604:bf00:561:2000::2e4) (Write error: Broken pipe) |
| 2023-03-22 16:50:33 +0100 | b0o | (0e4a0bf4c9@2604:bf00:561:2000::1bf) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2023-03-22 16:50:33 +0100 | cpli | (77fc530071@2604:bf00:561:2000::252) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2023-03-22 16:50:33 +0100 | shreyasminocha | (51fdc93eda@user/shreyasminocha) (Write error: Broken pipe) |
| 2023-03-22 16:50:33 +0100 | jakzale | (6291399afa@user/jakzale) (Write error: Broken pipe) |
| 2023-03-22 16:50:33 +0100 | chaitlatte0 | (ea29c0bb16@user/chaitlatte0) (Write error: Broken pipe) |
| 2023-03-22 16:50:33 +0100 | sm2n | (ae95cb1267@user/sm2n) (Write error: Broken pipe) |
| 2023-03-22 16:50:33 +0100 | Ankhers | (e99e97ef8e@2604:bf00:561:2000::2a2) (Write error: Broken pipe) |
| 2023-03-22 16:50:34 +0100 | probie | (cc0b34050a@user/probie) (Write error: Broken pipe) |
| 2023-03-22 16:50:34 +0100 | jkoshy | (99b9359beb@user/jkoshy) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2023-03-22 16:50:34 +0100 | filwisher | (2e6936c793@2604:bf00:561:2000::170) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2023-03-22 16:50:34 +0100 | jleightcap | (7bc4014b62@user/jleightcap) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2023-03-22 16:50:34 +0100 | henrytill | (e0180937c3@2604:bf00:561:2000::e8c) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2023-03-22 16:50:34 +0100 | fvr | (ef3e56ca8b@2604:bf00:561:2000::3c4) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2023-03-22 16:50:34 +0100 | ymherklotz | (cb2c9cfbdd@2604:bf00:561:2000::29a) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2023-03-22 16:50:34 +0100 | n1essa | (3d621153a5@2604:bf00:561:2000::df7) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2023-03-22 16:50:34 +0100 | bsima1 | (9d7e39c8ad@2604:bf00:561:2000::dd) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2023-03-22 16:50:34 +0100 | samhh | (7569f027cf@2604:bf00:561:2000::e4) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2023-03-22 16:50:34 +0100 | lukec | (9dfd4d094e@2604:bf00:561:2000::10e) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2023-03-22 16:50:34 +0100 | fluffyballoon | (45ce440a48@2604:bf00:561:2000::e2) (Write error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2023-03-22 16:52:10 +0100 | tromp | (~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) |
| 2023-03-22 16:55:08 +0100 | filwisher | (2e6936c793@2604:bf00:561:2000::170) |
| 2023-03-22 16:55:08 +0100 | bsima1 | (9d7e39c8ad@2604:bf00:561:2000::dd) |
| 2023-03-22 16:55:09 +0100 | ggb | (a62ffbaf4f@2604:bf00:561:2000::3ac) |
| 2023-03-22 16:55:23 +0100 | evanrelf | (3addc196af@2604:bf00:561:2000::f0) |
| 2023-03-22 16:55:33 +0100 | b0o | (0e4a0bf4c9@2604:bf00:561:2000::1bf) |
| 2023-03-22 16:55:58 +0100 | fvr | (ef3e56ca8b@2604:bf00:561:2000::3c4) |
| 2023-03-22 16:55:58 +0100 | probie | (cc0b34050a@user/probie) |
| 2023-03-22 16:56:07 +0100 | sus | (1b7af6299f@user/zeromomentum) |
| 2023-03-22 16:56:14 +0100 | Ankhers | (e99e97ef8e@2604:bf00:561:2000::2a2) |
| 2023-03-22 16:56:19 +0100 | ymherklotz | (cb2c9cfbdd@2604:bf00:561:2000::29a) |
| 2023-03-22 16:56:20 +0100 | chaitlatte0 | (ea29c0bb16@user/chaitlatte0) |
| 2023-03-22 16:56:25 +0100 | whereiseveryone | (206ba86c98@2604:bf00:561:2000::2e4) |
| 2023-03-22 16:56:27 +0100 | jakzale | (6291399afa@user/jakzale) |
| 2023-03-22 16:56:30 +0100 | cpli | (77fc530071@2604:bf00:561:2000::252) |
| 2023-03-22 16:56:31 +0100 | MonsoonSecrecy | (f78c86e960@2604:bf00:561:2000::f99) |
| 2023-03-22 16:56:34 +0100 | JoelMcCracken | (5ea8252fbb@2604:bf00:561:2000::10e3) |
| 2023-03-22 16:56:42 +0100 | jleightcap | (7bc4014b62@user/jleightcap) |
| 2023-03-22 16:56:48 +0100 | sm2n | (ae95cb1267@user/sm2n) |
| 2023-03-22 16:56:48 +0100 | jkoshy | (99b9359beb@user/jkoshy) |
| 2023-03-22 16:56:52 +0100 | samhh | (7569f027cf@2604:bf00:561:2000::e4) |
| 2023-03-22 16:56:52 +0100 | fluffyballoon | (45ce440a48@2604:bf00:561:2000::e2) |
| 2023-03-22 16:56:53 +0100 | henrytill | (e0180937c3@2604:bf00:561:2000::e8c) |
| 2023-03-22 16:56:53 +0100 | arcadewise | (52968ed80d@2604:bf00:561:2000::3df) |
| 2023-03-22 16:56:54 +0100 | shreyasminocha | (51fdc93eda@user/shreyasminocha) |
| 2023-03-22 17:01:59 +0100 | econo | (uid147250@user/econo) |
| 2023-03-22 17:06:10 +0100 | Square | (~Square4@user/square) |
| 2023-03-22 17:06:22 +0100 | zeenk | (~zeenk@2a02:2f04:a307:2300::7fe) (Quit: Konversation terminated!) |
| 2023-03-22 17:07:18 +0100 | nonames | (~nonames@95.107.230.70) |
| 2023-03-22 17:09:32 +0100 | lortabac | (~lortabac@2a01:e0a:541:b8f0:418:7c9:e7ab:4823) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 2023-03-22 17:09:47 +0100 | kenran | (~user@user/kenran) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2023-03-22 17:12:00 +0100 | n1essa | (3d621153a5@2604:bf00:561:2000::df7) |
| 2023-03-22 17:12:08 +0100 | lukec | (9dfd4d094e@2604:bf00:561:2000::10e) |
| 2023-03-22 17:14:35 +0100 | <nonames> | if you have a value n = 4 how do you do a list recursively but from 1 to 4 not from 4 to 1 without using the reverse? |
| 2023-03-22 17:23:20 +0100 | rekahsoft | (~rekahsoft@bras-base-orllon1122w-grc-07-174-95-68-142.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 2023-03-22 17:24:56 +0100 | enoq | (~enoq@2a05:1141:1f5:5600:b9c9:721a:599:bfe7) (Quit: enoq) |
| 2023-03-22 17:26:05 +0100 | <[exa]> | nonames: you would typically make a primitive like `listFromTo x y` and basically handle the 2 cases where in `x<=y` you start with `x:` and recurse, and in the other case you return empty list |
| 2023-03-22 17:29:06 +0100 | <EvanR> | do a list recursively? |
| 2023-03-22 17:31:46 +0100 | nschoe | (~q@141.101.51.197) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 2023-03-22 17:32:01 +0100 | machinedgod | (~machinedg@d198-53-218-113.abhsia.telus.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2023-03-22 17:36:33 +0100 | werneta | (~werneta@70-142-214-115.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2023-03-22 17:38:32 +0100 | werneta | (~werneta@70-142-214-115.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net) |
| 2023-03-22 17:40:45 +0100 | califax | (~califax@user/califx) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2023-03-22 17:40:47 +0100 | wroathe | (~wroathe@207-153-38-140.fttp.usinternet.com) |
| 2023-03-22 17:40:47 +0100 | wroathe | (~wroathe@207-153-38-140.fttp.usinternet.com) (Changing host) |
| 2023-03-22 17:40:47 +0100 | wroathe | (~wroathe@user/wroathe) |
| 2023-03-22 17:40:51 +0100 | chele | (~chele@user/chele) (Quit: Leaving) |
| 2023-03-22 17:41:44 +0100 | califax | (~califax@user/califx) |
| 2023-03-22 17:48:48 +0100 | jmdaemon | (~jmdaemon@user/jmdaemon) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 2023-03-22 17:48:59 +0100 | elevenkb | (~elevenkb@105.186.233.148) (Quit: Client closed) |
| 2023-03-22 17:49:29 +0100 | elevenkb | (~elevenkb@105.186.233.148) |
| 2023-03-22 17:54:31 +0100 | waleee | (~waleee@2001:9b0:21c:4000:5bf9:6515:c030:57b7) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2023-03-22 17:55:54 +0100 | kuribas | (~user@ip-188-118-57-242.reverse.destiny.be) (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 27.1)) |
| 2023-03-22 17:56:22 +0100 | elevenkb | (~elevenkb@105.186.233.148) (Quit: Client closed) |
| 2023-03-22 17:56:34 +0100 | nonames | (~nonames@95.107.230.70) (Quit: Client closed) |
| 2023-03-22 18:03:29 +0100 | mikoto-chan | (~mikoto-ch@87-95-58-79.bb.dnainternet.fi) |
| 2023-03-22 18:10:25 +0100 | bgs | (~bgs@212-85-160-171.dynamic.telemach.net) |
| 2023-03-22 18:10:47 +0100 | wroathe | (~wroathe@user/wroathe) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2023-03-22 18:13:01 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@c-001-001-015.client.esciencecenter.eduvpn.nl) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2023-03-22 18:13:27 +0100 | tzh | (~tzh@c-24-21-73-154.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 2023-03-22 18:20:28 +0100 | Ashkan | (~Ashkan@ec2-54-78-14-109.eu-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com) |
| 2023-03-22 18:21:19 +0100 | wroathe | (~wroathe@207-153-38-140.fttp.usinternet.com) |
| 2023-03-22 18:21:19 +0100 | wroathe | (~wroathe@207-153-38-140.fttp.usinternet.com) (Changing host) |
| 2023-03-22 18:21:19 +0100 | wroathe | (~wroathe@user/wroathe) |
| 2023-03-22 18:25:08 +0100 | motherfsck | (~motherfsc@user/motherfsck) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2023-03-22 18:27:04 +0100 | L29Ah | (~L29Ah@wikipedia/L29Ah) () |
| 2023-03-22 18:31:00 +0100 | wroathe | (~wroathe@user/wroathe) (Quit: leaving) |
| 2023-03-22 18:33:11 +0100 | ubert1 | (~Thunderbi@2a02:8109:abc0:6434:e5ec:628b:241e:1908) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2023-03-22 18:38:28 +0100 | madjestic | (~madjestic@88-159-247-120.fixed.kpn.net) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 2023-03-22 18:39:51 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@c-001-001-015.client.esciencecenter.eduvpn.nl) |
| 2023-03-22 18:43:15 +0100 | kmein | (~weechat@static.173.83.99.88.clients.your-server.de) (Quit: ciao kakao) |
| 2023-03-22 18:43:30 +0100 | kmein | (~weechat@user/kmein) |
| 2023-03-22 18:44:29 +0100 | vpan | (~0@212.117.1.172) (Quit: Leaving.) |
| 2023-03-22 18:46:29 +0100 | gambpang | (~ishipman@172-6-174-68.lightspeed.cicril.sbcglobal.net) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2023-03-22 18:47:26 +0100 | nunggu | (~q@user/nunggu) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
| 2023-03-22 18:50:13 +0100 | cheater_ | (~Username@user/cheater) |
| 2023-03-22 18:50:14 +0100 | nate4 | (~nate@98.45.169.16) |
| 2023-03-22 18:50:17 +0100 | kmein | (~weechat@user/kmein) (Quit: ciao kakao) |
| 2023-03-22 18:51:30 +0100 | cheater | (~Username@user/cheater) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
| 2023-03-22 18:51:38 +0100 | cheater_ | cheater |
| 2023-03-22 18:52:06 +0100 | kmein | (~weechat@static.173.83.99.88.clients.your-server.de) |
| 2023-03-22 18:52:56 +0100 | monoidal | (~monoidal@2a01cb0801ce4b00f79814a8dc29a831.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2023-03-22 18:53:25 +0100 | codaraxis | (~codaraxis@user/codaraxis) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 2023-03-22 18:55:01 +0100 | nate4 | (~nate@98.45.169.16) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2023-03-22 18:55:13 +0100 | kmein | (~weechat@static.173.83.99.88.clients.your-server.de) (Client Quit) |
| 2023-03-22 18:55:28 +0100 | kmein | (~weechat@static.173.83.99.88.clients.your-server.de) |
| 2023-03-22 18:56:13 +0100 | thegeekinside | (~thegeekin@189.141.115.134) |
| 2023-03-22 18:56:17 +0100 | thegeekinside | (~thegeekin@189.141.115.134) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2023-03-22 18:57:17 +0100 | matijja | (~matijja@193.77.181.201) (Quit: ZNC 1.8.2 - https://znc.in) |
| 2023-03-22 18:59:09 +0100 | matijja | (~matijja@193.77.181.201) |
| 2023-03-22 19:00:01 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@c-001-001-015.client.esciencecenter.eduvpn.nl) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2023-03-22 19:00:31 +0100 | kmein | (~weechat@static.173.83.99.88.clients.your-server.de) (Quit: ciao kakao) |
| 2023-03-22 19:00:33 +0100 | monoidal | (~monoidal@2a01cb0801ce4b00f79814a8dc29a831.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Quit: Client closed) |
| 2023-03-22 19:00:59 +0100 | matijja | (~matijja@193.77.181.201) (Client Quit) |
| 2023-03-22 19:01:33 +0100 | matijja | (~matijja@193.77.181.201) |
| 2023-03-22 19:01:40 +0100 | monoidal | (~monoidal@2a01cb0801ce4b00f79814a8dc29a831.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2023-03-22 19:02:12 +0100 | kmein | (~weechat@static.173.83.99.88.clients.your-server.de) |
| 2023-03-22 19:03:00 +0100 | kmein | (~weechat@static.173.83.99.88.clients.your-server.de) (Client Quit) |
| 2023-03-22 19:03:21 +0100 | kmein | (~weechat@static.173.83.99.88.clients.your-server.de) |
| 2023-03-22 19:05:01 +0100 | kmein | (~weechat@static.173.83.99.88.clients.your-server.de) (Client Quit) |
| 2023-03-22 19:05:18 +0100 | kmein | (~weechat@static.173.83.99.88.clients.your-server.de) |
| 2023-03-22 19:08:16 +0100 | kmein | (~weechat@static.173.83.99.88.clients.your-server.de) (Client Quit) |
| 2023-03-22 19:08:58 +0100 | kmein | (~weechat@static.173.83.99.88.clients.your-server.de) |
| 2023-03-22 19:14:07 +0100 | kmein | (~weechat@static.173.83.99.88.clients.your-server.de) (Quit: ciao kakao) |
| 2023-03-22 19:14:23 +0100 | kmein | (~weechat@static.173.83.99.88.clients.your-server.de) |
| 2023-03-22 19:17:30 +0100 | kmein | (~weechat@static.173.83.99.88.clients.your-server.de) (Client Quit) |
| 2023-03-22 19:17:44 +0100 | kmein | (~weechat@user/kmein) |
| 2023-03-22 19:18:49 +0100 | kmein | (~weechat@user/kmein) (Client Quit) |
| 2023-03-22 19:19:01 +0100 | cheater | (~Username@user/cheater) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2023-03-22 19:19:40 +0100 | cheater | (~Username@user/cheater) |
| 2023-03-22 19:19:50 +0100 | monoidal | (~monoidal@2a01cb0801ce4b00f79814a8dc29a831.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Quit: Client closed) |
| 2023-03-22 19:20:37 +0100 | kmein | (~weechat@static.173.83.99.88.clients.your-server.de) |
| 2023-03-22 19:21:51 +0100 | kmein | (~weechat@static.173.83.99.88.clients.your-server.de) (Client Quit) |
| 2023-03-22 19:22:12 +0100 | kmein | (~weechat@static.173.83.99.88.clients.your-server.de) |
| 2023-03-22 19:23:12 +0100 | coot | (~coot@2a02:a310:e241:1b00:ec1a:e9df:79ac:66ba) (Quit: coot) |
| 2023-03-22 19:24:15 +0100 | monoidal | (~monoidal@2a01cb0801ce4b005a1affd9d2e2d719.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2023-03-22 19:24:55 +0100 | thegeekinside | (~thegeekin@189.141.115.134) |
| 2023-03-22 19:26:23 +0100 | gurkenglas | (~gurkengla@dynamic-089-204-139-175.89.204.139.pool.telefonica.de) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2023-03-22 19:26:40 +0100 | slack1256 | (~slack1256@181.42.50.18) |
| 2023-03-22 19:27:12 +0100 | kmein | (~weechat@static.173.83.99.88.clients.your-server.de) (Quit: ciao kakao) |
| 2023-03-22 19:27:27 +0100 | kmein | (~weechat@user/kmein) |
| 2023-03-22 19:27:51 +0100 | tromp | (~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) |
| 2023-03-22 19:27:51 +0100 | <slack1256> | I am searching for a video of a PL conference. The presenter made the case that different PL communities can be classified by what they value aesthetically instead of technical differences. Does that ring a bell for anybody? |
| 2023-03-22 19:29:14 +0100 | lagash | (lagash@lagash.shelltalk.net) (Quit: ZNC - https://znc.in) |
| 2023-03-22 19:29:33 +0100 | Ashkan | (~Ashkan@ec2-54-78-14-109.eu-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2023-03-22 19:29:44 +0100 | <meejah> | if you find it, please followup that sounds interesting (no bells, here). From that sentence I feel a case might be made for "C++ communities" too ;) |
| 2023-03-22 19:30:08 +0100 | kmein | (~weechat@user/kmein) (Client Quit) |
| 2023-03-22 19:30:09 +0100 | Tuplanolla | (~Tuplanoll@91-159-68-236.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 2023-03-22 19:30:39 +0100 | lagash | (lagash@lagash.shelltalk.net) |
| 2023-03-22 19:31:56 +0100 | kmein | (~weechat@static.173.83.99.88.clients.your-server.de) |
| 2023-03-22 19:33:44 +0100 | monoidal | (~monoidal@2a01cb0801ce4b005a1affd9d2e2d719.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Quit: Client closed) |
| 2023-03-22 19:36:35 +0100 | codaraxis | (~codaraxis@user/codaraxis) |
| 2023-03-22 19:40:08 +0100 | mixphix | (~cigsender@74.124.58.162) (Quit: Lost terminal) |
| 2023-03-22 19:42:59 +0100 | gurkenglas | (~gurkengla@dynamic-089-204-139-175.89.204.139.pool.telefonica.de) |
| 2023-03-22 19:46:14 +0100 | cheater_ | (~Username@user/cheater) |
| 2023-03-22 19:46:21 +0100 | kmein | (~weechat@static.173.83.99.88.clients.your-server.de) (Quit: ciao kakao) |
| 2023-03-22 19:46:33 +0100 | <chreekat> | it does ring a bell, but faintly, from a very long way through the fog |
| 2023-03-22 19:46:35 +0100 | kmein | (~weechat@user/kmein) |
| 2023-03-22 19:47:16 +0100 | <yushyin> | wadler's law not unrelated :P |
| 2023-03-22 19:47:18 +0100 | cheater | (~Username@user/cheater) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
| 2023-03-22 19:48:09 +0100 | tromp | (~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) |
| 2023-03-22 19:49:14 +0100 | sammelweis | (~quassel@2601:401:8200:2d4c:bd9:d04c:7f69:eb10) (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.) |
| 2023-03-22 19:49:21 +0100 | sammelweis | (~quassel@2601:401:8200:2d4c:bd9:d04c:7f69:eb10) |
| 2023-03-22 19:51:01 +0100 | cheater_ | (~Username@user/cheater) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2023-03-22 19:51:14 +0100 | monoidal | (~monoidal@2a01cb0801ce4b005a1affd9d2e2d719.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2023-03-22 19:53:28 +0100 | cheater_ | (~Username@user/cheater) |
| 2023-03-22 19:53:28 +0100 | cheater_ | cheater |
| 2023-03-22 19:54:57 +0100 | cheater_ | (~Username@user/cheater) |
| 2023-03-22 19:55:14 +0100 | gnalzo | (~gnalzo@2a01:e0a:498:fd50:fcc6:bb5d:489a:ce8c) |
| 2023-03-22 19:56:10 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@c-001-001-015.client.esciencecenter.eduvpn.nl) |
| 2023-03-22 19:56:15 +0100 | <slack1256> | meejah: Yeah, the presenter did classify C++ on the presentation. Zero cost abstractions made more sense as a community value. |
| 2023-03-22 19:56:37 +0100 | L29Ah | (~L29Ah@wikipedia/L29Ah) |
| 2023-03-22 19:57:16 +0100 | coot | (~coot@2a02:a310:e241:1b00:ec1a:e9df:79ac:66ba) |
| 2023-03-22 19:57:31 +0100 | cheater | (~Username@user/cheater) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2023-03-22 19:57:33 +0100 | cheater__ | (~Username@user/cheater) |
| 2023-03-22 19:57:33 +0100 | cheater__ | cheater |
| 2023-03-22 19:58:18 +0100 | <dminuoso> | "zero cost" |
| 2023-03-22 19:58:27 +0100 | <dminuoso> | I love these blanket attributions everytime they get used. |
| 2023-03-22 19:59:06 +0100 | <int-e> | . o O ( zero-cost abstractions = multi-megabyte executables ) |
| 2023-03-22 20:00:01 +0100 | cheater_ | (~Username@user/cheater) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2023-03-22 20:00:46 +0100 | <int-e> | Haskell is in that boat too, but doesn't use the label, maybe because laziness tends to have a cost that doesn't disappear. |
| 2023-03-22 20:07:01 +0100 | waleee | (~waleee@2001:9b0:21c:4000:5bf9:6515:c030:57b7) |
| 2023-03-22 20:12:05 +0100 | jmdaemon | (~jmdaemon@user/jmdaemon) |
| 2023-03-22 20:13:01 +0100 | gurkenglas | (~gurkengla@dynamic-089-204-139-175.89.204.139.pool.telefonica.de) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2023-03-22 20:14:31 +0100 | Vq | (~vq@90-227-192-206-no77.tbcn.telia.com) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2023-03-22 20:14:54 +0100 | gurkenglas | (~gurkengla@dynamic-046-114-181-182.46.114.pool.telefonica.de) |
| 2023-03-22 20:16:45 +0100 | Vq | (~vq@90-227-192-206-no77.tbcn.telia.com) |
| 2023-03-22 20:27:11 +0100 | cheater_ | (~Username@user/cheater) |
| 2023-03-22 20:27:20 +0100 | cheater | (~Username@user/cheater) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2023-03-22 20:27:30 +0100 | cheater_ | cheater |
| 2023-03-22 20:28:57 +0100 | cheater_ | (~Username@user/cheater) |
| 2023-03-22 20:29:35 +0100 | machinedgod | (~machinedg@d198-53-218-113.abhsia.telus.net) |
| 2023-03-22 20:30:36 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@c-001-001-015.client.esciencecenter.eduvpn.nl) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 2023-03-22 20:32:01 +0100 | cheater | (~Username@user/cheater) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2023-03-22 20:32:01 +0100 | cheater_ | cheater |
| 2023-03-22 20:32:03 +0100 | motherfsck | (~motherfsc@user/motherfsck) |
| 2023-03-22 20:39:15 +0100 | nschoe | (~q@2a01:e0a:8e:a190:9b78:cadd:3723:6130) |
| 2023-03-22 20:50:55 +0100 | sammelweis | (~quassel@2601:401:8200:2d4c:bd9:d04c:7f69:eb10) (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.) |
| 2023-03-22 20:52:06 +0100 | sammelweis | (~quassel@2601:401:8200:2d4c:bd9:d04c:7f69:eb10) |
| 2023-03-22 20:52:07 +0100 | <tomsmeding> | slack1256: rings a faint bell, could that have been David Christiansen? Or was it longer ago |
| 2023-03-22 20:52:25 +0100 | <EvanR> | haskell has actual zero cost abstractions, at least in the runtime sense of C++, with newtype |
| 2023-03-22 20:52:46 +0100 | <EvanR> | there's obviously a pre-runtime cost to using C++ stuff |
| 2023-03-22 20:53:02 +0100 | ft | (~ft@p3e9bc443.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 2023-03-22 21:02:53 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@c-001-001-015.client.esciencecenter.eduvpn.nl) |
| 2023-03-22 21:02:53 +0100 | ham | (~ham@user/ham) |
| 2023-03-22 21:07:28 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@c-001-001-015.client.esciencecenter.eduvpn.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2023-03-22 21:08:30 +0100 | <ski> | i guess one could perhaps categorize tail calls under "zero cost" |
| 2023-03-22 21:10:20 +0100 | <davean> | Is that an abstraction though? |
| 2023-03-22 21:10:30 +0100 | ft | (~ft@p3e9bc443.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2023-03-22 21:10:30 +0100 | <davean> | and is it negative cost? |
| 2023-03-22 21:10:55 +0100 | <davean> | I think it might fail the predicate two ways |
| 2023-03-22 21:11:00 +0100 | <dminuoso> | EvanR: "zero cost" is always relative to some perspective. |
| 2023-03-22 21:11:32 +0100 | <jean-paul[m]> | the abstraction there is "recursion" I think |
| 2023-03-22 21:11:41 +0100 | <dminuoso> | In reality you end up paying *some* way. Runtime, compilation time, diagnostics quality, ergonomics, bug likelihood |
| 2023-03-22 21:12:13 +0100 | <dminuoso> | Most "zero-cost" attributions seem to intentionally focus on just one thing, so they dont have to tell you what you are paying for instead. |
| 2023-03-22 21:12:20 +0100 | <EvanR> | as long as you can pay back to cost of technical debt with the ROI? xD |
| 2023-03-22 21:12:24 +0100 | <EvanR> | the cost |
| 2023-03-22 21:13:01 +0100 | madjestic | (~madjestic@88-159-247-120.fixed.kpn.net) |
| 2023-03-22 21:13:46 +0100 | <EvanR> | I guess the ultimate in zero cost is stuff like functions of () which you don't even have to evaluate |
| 2023-03-22 21:14:16 +0100 | <dminuoso> | It could inhibit sharing |
| 2023-03-22 21:14:45 +0100 | <EvanR> | yeah so I shouldve said functions *to* () xD |
| 2023-03-22 21:15:22 +0100 | monoidal | (~monoidal@2a01cb0801ce4b005a1affd9d2e2d719.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Quit: Client closed) |
| 2023-03-22 21:15:57 +0100 | <dminuoso> | seq comes to mind as a function (potentially) to () that certainly has meaning. |
| 2023-03-22 21:16:05 +0100 | <dminuoso> | but I may be cheating with that a bit. :-) |
| 2023-03-22 21:19:06 +0100 | sammelweis | (~quassel@2601:401:8200:2d4c:bd9:d04c:7f69:eb10) (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.) |
| 2023-03-22 21:19:34 +0100 | ft | (~ft@p3e9bc443.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 2023-03-22 21:20:17 +0100 | Square | (~Square4@user/square) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) |
| 2023-03-22 21:20:29 +0100 | sammelweis | (~quassel@2601:401:8200:2d4c:bd9:d04c:7f69:eb10) |
| 2023-03-22 21:22:03 +0100 | <mauke> | https://infosec.exchange/@lcamtuf/110068289362275921 |
| 2023-03-22 21:22:08 +0100 | cheater | (~Username@user/cheater) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2023-03-22 21:22:24 +0100 | coot | (~coot@2a02:a310:e241:1b00:ec1a:e9df:79ac:66ba) (Quit: coot) |
| 2023-03-22 21:23:17 +0100 | <dminuoso> | mauke: lol what happened there |
| 2023-03-22 21:23:36 +0100 | coot | (~coot@2a02:a310:e241:1b00:ec1a:e9df:79ac:66ba) |
| 2023-03-22 21:25:45 +0100 | <EvanR> | a program at runtime remains at runtime until met with an exception |
| 2023-03-22 21:25:57 +0100 | mastarija | (~mastarija@188.252.199.22) (Quit: WeeChat 3.7.1) |
| 2023-03-22 21:25:57 +0100 | sammelweis | (~quassel@2601:401:8200:2d4c:bd9:d04c:7f69:eb10) (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.) |
| 2023-03-22 21:26:56 +0100 | <dminuoso> | mauke: That looks so well written.. it's scary. |
| 2023-03-22 21:27:03 +0100 | sammelweis | (~quassel@2601:401:8200:2d4c:bd9:d04c:7f69:eb10) |
| 2023-03-22 21:28:05 +0100 | <dminuoso> | Do you happen to know what language model this is generated from? |
| 2023-03-22 21:28:18 +0100 | <EvanR> | submit it to a postmodern philosophy journal and see if it gets accepted |
| 2023-03-22 21:28:27 +0100 | <Jade[m]1> | seems like the new google ai |
| 2023-03-22 21:28:43 +0100 | <dminuoso> | If that's the new google ai I better sell my shares. |
| 2023-03-22 21:29:09 +0100 | <mauke> | yeah, that looks like the Google Bard logo |
| 2023-03-22 21:29:43 +0100 | <dminuoso> | There's so much gibberish sprinkled with microtruths in there. |
| 2023-03-22 21:29:45 +0100 | <EvanR> | is it hilarious or sad that metaverse pivoted from VR to AI |
| 2023-03-22 21:29:54 +0100 | <EvanR> | what's next |
| 2023-03-22 21:30:11 +0100 | <dminuoso> | AI in a Web3.0 VR game you pay for with cryptocurrency. |
| 2023-03-22 21:30:15 +0100 | <talismanick> | AI... as an NFT? |
| 2023-03-22 21:30:24 +0100 | <dminuoso> | That's some real horror. |
| 2023-03-22 21:30:24 +0100 | <talismanick> | damn, beat me to it |
| 2023-03-22 21:31:04 +0100 | <talismanick> | I love how crypto failed so dramatically that it's now the stock punchline for how to make tech worse |
| 2023-03-22 21:31:05 +0100 | <mauke> | VRAIment |
| 2023-03-22 21:31:12 +0100 | cheater | (~Username@user/cheater) |
| 2023-03-22 21:31:18 +0100 | <dminuoso> | *cryptocurrency |
| 2023-03-22 21:31:34 +0100 | <talismanick> | mm, good catch |
| 2023-03-22 21:31:38 +0100 | <dminuoso> | cryptography is on a failing edge too, but its not as steep. |
| 2023-03-22 21:31:41 +0100 | <talismanick> | crypographers deserved none of this |
| 2023-03-22 21:33:03 +0100 | <talismanick> | well, maybe a little for saying PGP was good enough for everyone and leaving us in a state where you have learn everything, cargo cult everything, or just not have privacy |
| 2023-03-22 21:33:55 +0100 | <dminuoso> | PGP, a world-wide experiment on UX antipatterns. |
| 2023-03-22 21:34:35 +0100 | <dminuoso> | I dont think there's with as weird and poor UI as PGP |
| 2023-03-22 21:34:51 +0100 | <dminuoso> | or wait, Im thinking about gpg |
| 2023-03-22 21:35:18 +0100 | <talismanick> | isn't g(nu)pg a particular implementation? |
| 2023-03-22 21:35:21 +0100 | <davean> | oh please, PGP/GPG has a perfect UI. It makes it so you're REALLY sure you don't want to talk to anyone who uses it (me included) |
| 2023-03-22 21:35:27 +0100 | <EvanR> | reverse (cycle "gp") ++ cycle "pg" |
| 2023-03-22 21:36:01 +0100 | <EvanR> | shoot that's messed up at the center |
| 2023-03-22 21:36:07 +0100 | <geekosaur> | pgp was a particular implementation too |
| 2023-03-22 21:36:07 +0100 | <christiansen[m]> | <slack1256> "I am searching for a video of..." <- That sounds a bit like my Haskell Symposium keynote from last year. The idea comes from Kent Pitman's essay "Lambda: the Ultimate Political Party". But it's not aesthetics per se, values in general. I think the idea is fairly widespread these days. |
| 2023-03-22 21:36:41 +0100 | <dminuoso> | davean: heh |
| 2023-03-22 21:36:54 +0100 | <talismanick> | jfc we can't even get the name right without knowing the history inside and out |
| 2023-03-22 21:37:40 +0100 | srz | (~srz@181.228.49.93) |
| 2023-03-22 21:37:49 +0100 | <talismanick> | alas, it would be legally advisable for me to stop talking before the choice words come out |
| 2023-03-22 21:38:08 +0100 | <geekosaur> | "mistake" |
| 2023-03-22 21:38:36 +0100 | <geekosaur> | (says the guy who resuscitated his pgp key to sign commits) |
| 2023-03-22 21:38:39 +0100 | vglfr | (~vglfr@88.155.48.0) |
| 2023-03-22 21:39:21 +0100 | <davean> | Hey, I have GPG too, but *you really don't want to talk to me*, and that fact just is sufficient evidence to know it. (I use it for gpg-agent, and smartcard management mostly) |
| 2023-03-22 21:39:35 +0100 | nschoe | (~q@2a01:e0a:8e:a190:9b78:cadd:3723:6130) (Quit: Switching off) |
| 2023-03-22 21:43:31 +0100 | lortabac | (~lortabac@2a01:e0a:541:b8f0:1adc:3c4d:af37:7a07) |
| 2023-03-22 21:44:27 +0100 | madjestic | (~madjestic@88-159-247-120.fixed.kpn.net) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 2023-03-22 21:47:07 +0100 | madjestic | (~madjestic@88-159-247-120.fixed.kpn.net) |
| 2023-03-22 21:48:28 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@c-001-001-015.client.esciencecenter.eduvpn.nl) |
| 2023-03-22 21:49:25 +0100 | mokee | (~mokee@37.228.215.65) (Quit: off) |
| 2023-03-22 21:50:31 +0100 | slack1256 | (~slack1256@181.42.50.18) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2023-03-22 21:51:42 +0100 | Umeaboy | (~Umeaboy@94-255-145-133.cust.bredband2.com) (Quit: Leaving) |
| 2023-03-22 21:54:12 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@c-001-001-015.client.esciencecenter.eduvpn.nl) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
| 2023-03-22 21:55:25 +0100 | thegeekinside | (~thegeekin@189.141.115.134) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 2023-03-22 21:55:56 +0100 | dcoutts_ | (~duncan@host86-150-41-249.range86-150.btcentralplus.com) |
| 2023-03-22 21:57:56 +0100 | dcoutts | (~duncan@host86-150-41-249.range86-150.btcentralplus.com) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2023-03-22 22:03:53 +0100 | hnOsmium0001 | (uid453710@user/hnOsmium0001) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) |
| 2023-03-22 22:17:26 +0100 | gnalzo | (~gnalzo@2a01:e0a:498:fd50:fcc6:bb5d:489a:ce8c) (Quit: WeeChat 3.8) |
| 2023-03-22 22:18:02 +0100 | ham | hamster |
| 2023-03-22 22:20:22 +0100 | lortabac | (~lortabac@2a01:e0a:541:b8f0:1adc:3c4d:af37:7a07) (Quit: WeeChat 2.8) |
| 2023-03-22 22:21:57 +0100 | brandonh | (~brandonh@93-38-48-54.ip69.fastwebnet.it) |
| 2023-03-22 22:22:08 +0100 | brandonh | (~brandonh@93-38-48-54.ip69.fastwebnet.it) (Client Quit) |
| 2023-03-22 22:25:57 +0100 | coot | (~coot@2a02:a310:e241:1b00:ec1a:e9df:79ac:66ba) (Quit: coot) |
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| 2023-03-22 22:35:36 +0100 | dolio | (~dolio@130.44.134.54) (Client Quit) |
| 2023-03-22 22:36:30 +0100 | dolio | (~dolio@130.44.134.54) |
| 2023-03-22 22:42:22 +0100 | [itchyjunk] | (~itchyjunk@user/itchyjunk/x-7353470) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2023-03-22 22:42:37 +0100 | [itchyjunk] | (~itchyjunk@user/itchyjunk/x-7353470) |
| 2023-03-22 22:48:06 +0100 | bgs | (~bgs@212-85-160-171.dynamic.telemach.net) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2023-03-22 22:48:24 +0100 | dumptruckman | (~dumptruck@143-42-239-71.ip.linodeusercontent.com) (Quit: ZNC - https://znc.in) |
| 2023-03-22 22:49:04 +0100 | dumptruckman | (~dumptruck@143-42-239-71.ip.linodeusercontent.com) |
| 2023-03-22 22:51:19 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@c-001-001-015.client.esciencecenter.eduvpn.nl) |
| 2023-03-22 22:51:43 +0100 | nate4 | (~nate@98.45.169.16) |
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| 2023-03-22 22:57:29 +0100 | rekahsoft | (~rekahsoft@bras-base-orllon1122w-grc-07-174-95-68-142.dsl.bell.ca) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2023-03-22 22:59:34 +0100 | Midjak | (~Midjak@82.66.147.146) (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep) |
| 2023-03-22 23:14:49 +0100 | zeenk | (~zeenk@2a02:2f04:a307:2300::7fe) |
| 2023-03-22 23:18:54 +0100 | thegeekinside | (~thegeekin@189.141.115.134) |
| 2023-03-22 23:19:48 +0100 | __monty__ | (~toonn@user/toonn) (Quit: leaving) |
| 2023-03-22 23:25:33 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@c-001-001-015.client.esciencecenter.eduvpn.nl) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
| 2023-03-22 23:29:38 +0100 | glguy | (~glguy@libera/staff-emeritus/glguy) (Quit: Quit) |
| 2023-03-22 23:30:34 +0100 | michalz | (~michalz@185.246.207.201) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2023-03-22 23:30:49 +0100 | glguy | (~glguy@libera/staff-emeritus/glguy) |
| 2023-03-22 23:31:32 +0100 | Tuplanolla | (~Tuplanoll@91-159-68-236.elisa-laajakaista.fi) (Quit: Leaving.) |
| 2023-03-22 23:33:12 +0100 | Feuermagier | (~Feuermagi@user/feuermagier) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2023-03-22 23:35:53 +0100 | <talismanick> | Anyone here used polysemy + incipit before? Thoughts? |
| 2023-03-22 23:38:37 +0100 | chomwitt | (~chomwitt@2a02:587:7a19:3600:1ac0:4dff:fedb:a3f1) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
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| 2023-03-22 23:50:15 +0100 | takuan | (~takuan@178-116-218-225.access.telenet.be) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2023-03-22 23:51:55 +0100 | tromp | (~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) |
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| 2023-03-22 23:57:28 +0100 | tromp | (~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) |