| 2023-03-20 00:00:27 +0100 | dsp | (~dsp@host86-137-135-17.range86-137.btcentralplus.com) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 2023-03-20 00:10:57 +0100 | mastarija | (~mastarija@188.252.197.201) (Quit: WeeChat 3.7.1) |
| 2023-03-20 00:14:36 +0100 | jbalint | jbalint_ |
| 2023-03-20 00:14:52 +0100 | Tuplanolla | (~Tuplanoll@91-159-68-236.elisa-laajakaista.fi) (Quit: Leaving.) |
| 2023-03-20 00:16:26 +0100 | eggplantade | (~Eggplanta@2600:1700:38c5:d800:add4:765e:c41a:7ea4) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2023-03-20 00:18:00 +0100 | haritz | (~hrtz@user/haritz) (Quit: ZNC 1.8.2+deb2 - https://znc.in) |
| 2023-03-20 00:18:35 +0100 | haritz | (~hrtz@2a02:8010:65b5:0:6009:6384:e3cb:2220) |
| 2023-03-20 00:18:36 +0100 | haritz | (~hrtz@2a02:8010:65b5:0:6009:6384:e3cb:2220) (Changing host) |
| 2023-03-20 00:18:36 +0100 | haritz | (~hrtz@user/haritz) |
| 2023-03-20 00:18:45 +0100 | tromp | (~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) |
| 2023-03-20 00:22:14 +0100 | freeside | (~mengwong@122.11.248.245) |
| 2023-03-20 00:22:26 +0100 | wroathe | (~wroathe@user/wroathe) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2023-03-20 00:23:59 +0100 | pavonia | (~user@user/siracusa) |
| 2023-03-20 00:24:59 +0100 | talismanick | (~talismani@2601:200:c000:f7a0::5321) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) |
| 2023-03-20 00:25:50 +0100 | cassiope1 | (~cassiopea@user/cassiopea) |
| 2023-03-20 00:26:43 +0100 | freeside | (~mengwong@122.11.248.245) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) |
| 2023-03-20 00:29:06 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@86-86-29-250.fixed.kpn.net) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) |
| 2023-03-20 00:35:41 +0100 | eggplantade | (~Eggplanta@2600:1700:38c5:d800:add4:765e:c41a:7ea4) |
| 2023-03-20 00:39:49 +0100 | smallville7123 | (~Android@cpe-172-193-179-86.qld.foxtel.net.au) |
| 2023-03-20 00:39:56 +0100 | Techcable | (~Techcable@user/Techcable) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2023-03-20 00:42:08 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@86-86-29-250.fixed.kpn.net) |
| 2023-03-20 00:43:49 +0100 | acidjnk | (~acidjnk@p200300d6e715c48305d2b6e6e0a86f76.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 2023-03-20 00:45:34 +0100 | cassiope1 | (~cassiopea@user/cassiopea) (Quit: leaving) |
| 2023-03-20 00:47:13 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@86-86-29-250.fixed.kpn.net) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 2023-03-20 00:47:28 +0100 | cassiope1 | (~cassiopea@user/cassiopea) |
| 2023-03-20 00:49:50 +0100 | cassiope1 | (~cassiopea@user/cassiopea) (Client Quit) |
| 2023-03-20 00:50:36 +0100 | caryhartline | (~caryhartl@2600:1700:2d0:8d30:6576:9fe8:b907:8643) (Quit: caryhartline) |
| 2023-03-20 00:51:19 +0100 | Techcable | (~Techcable@user/Techcable) |
| 2023-03-20 00:52:30 +0100 | travisb_ | tabemann |
| 2023-03-20 00:56:38 +0100 | jwiegley | (~jwiegley@76-234-69-149.lightspeed.frokca.sbcglobal.net) (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in) |
| 2023-03-20 00:56:38 +0100 | johnw | (~johnw@76-234-69-149.lightspeed.frokca.sbcglobal.net) (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in) |
| 2023-03-20 00:57:00 +0100 | Umeaboy | (~Umeaboy@94-255-145-133.cust.bredband2.com) (Quit: Leaving) |
| 2023-03-20 00:57:04 +0100 | freeside | (~mengwong@122.11.248.245) |
| 2023-03-20 00:59:01 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@86-86-29-250.fixed.kpn.net) |
| 2023-03-20 01:01:43 +0100 | freeside | (~mengwong@122.11.248.245) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 2023-03-20 01:03:18 +0100 | wroathe | (~wroathe@207-153-38-140.fttp.usinternet.com) |
| 2023-03-20 01:03:19 +0100 | wroathe | (~wroathe@207-153-38-140.fttp.usinternet.com) (Changing host) |
| 2023-03-20 01:03:19 +0100 | wroathe | (~wroathe@user/wroathe) |
| 2023-03-20 01:03:39 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@86-86-29-250.fixed.kpn.net) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
| 2023-03-20 01:24:42 +0100 | sagax | (~sagax_nb@user/sagax) |
| 2023-03-20 01:25:15 +0100 | xff0x | (~xff0x@ai098135.d.east.v6connect.net) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 2023-03-20 01:29:18 +0100 | freeside | (~mengwong@122.11.248.245) |
| 2023-03-20 01:34:06 +0100 | freeside | (~mengwong@122.11.248.245) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 2023-03-20 01:37:06 +0100 | freeside | (~mengwong@122.11.248.245) |
| 2023-03-20 01:41:15 +0100 | freeside | (~mengwong@122.11.248.245) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 2023-03-20 01:44:17 +0100 | ddellaco1 | (~ddellacos@146.70.165.10) |
| 2023-03-20 01:50:02 +0100 | mauke_ | (~mauke@user/mauke) |
| 2023-03-20 01:51:59 +0100 | mauke | (~mauke@user/mauke) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 2023-03-20 01:51:59 +0100 | mauke_ | mauke |
| 2023-03-20 01:54:29 +0100 | anpad | (~pandeyan@user/anpad) |
| 2023-03-20 02:01:13 +0100 | slack1256 | (~slack1256@181.42.50.18) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 2023-03-20 02:01:48 +0100 | califax | (~califax@user/califx) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2023-03-20 02:02:53 +0100 | califax | (~califax@user/califx) |
| 2023-03-20 02:05:09 +0100 | eggplantade | (~Eggplanta@2600:1700:38c5:d800:add4:765e:c41a:7ea4) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2023-03-20 02:07:04 +0100 | smallville7123 | (~Android@cpe-172-193-179-86.qld.foxtel.net.au) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 2023-03-20 02:08:51 +0100 | johnw | (~johnw@76-234-69-149.lightspeed.frokca.sbcglobal.net) |
| 2023-03-20 02:09:20 +0100 | jwiegley | (~jwiegley@76-234-69-149.lightspeed.frokca.sbcglobal.net) |
| 2023-03-20 02:10:28 +0100 | albet70 | (~xxx@2400:8902::f03c:92ff:fe60:98d8) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2023-03-20 02:11:27 +0100 | jakalx | (~jakalx@base.jakalx.net) () |
| 2023-03-20 02:16:35 +0100 | albet70 | (~xxx@2400:8902::f03c:92ff:fe60:98d8) |
| 2023-03-20 02:20:32 +0100 | falafel | (~falafel@2603-8000-d700-115c-7bb8-b1e6-248b-2bac.res6.spectrum.com) |
| 2023-03-20 02:27:57 +0100 | freeside | (~mengwong@122.11.248.245) |
| 2023-03-20 02:33:03 +0100 | srz | (~srz@179.36.78.212) |
| 2023-03-20 02:35:22 +0100 | srz | (~srz@179.36.78.212) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2023-03-20 02:35:41 +0100 | srz | (~srz@179.36.78.212) |
| 2023-03-20 02:35:47 +0100 | freeside | (~mengwong@122.11.248.245) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2023-03-20 02:36:51 +0100 | gehmehgeh | (~user@user/gehmehgeh) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2023-03-20 02:37:41 +0100 | gehmehgeh | (~user@user/gehmehgeh) |
| 2023-03-20 02:43:32 +0100 | wroathe | (~wroathe@user/wroathe) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) |
| 2023-03-20 02:47:04 +0100 | smallville7123 | (~Android@cpe-172-193-179-86.qld.foxtel.net.au) |
| 2023-03-20 02:48:12 +0100 | freeside | (~mengwong@122.11.248.245) |
| 2023-03-20 02:49:41 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@86-86-29-250.fixed.kpn.net) |
| 2023-03-20 02:51:37 +0100 | razetime | (~Thunderbi@117.193.1.102) |
| 2023-03-20 02:55:42 +0100 | freeside | (~mengwong@122.11.248.245) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
| 2023-03-20 03:01:49 +0100 | eggplantade | (~Eggplanta@2600:1700:38c5:d800:add4:765e:c41a:7ea4) |
| 2023-03-20 03:03:09 +0100 | kimjetwav | (~user@2607:fea8:235e:b600:8d5f:c19:135b:d0c3) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) |
| 2023-03-20 03:03:10 +0100 | L29Ah | (~L29Ah@wikipedia/L29Ah) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2023-03-20 03:08:04 +0100 | smallville7123 | (~Android@cpe-172-193-179-86.qld.foxtel.net.au) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2023-03-20 03:12:02 +0100 | smallville7123_ | (~Android@cpe-172-193-179-86.qld.foxtel.net.au) |
| 2023-03-20 03:13:25 +0100 | xff0x | (~xff0x@125x103x176x34.ap125.ftth.ucom.ne.jp) |
| 2023-03-20 03:14:18 +0100 | eggplantade | (~Eggplanta@2600:1700:38c5:d800:add4:765e:c41a:7ea4) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2023-03-20 03:14:25 +0100 | freeside | (~mengwong@122.11.248.245) |
| 2023-03-20 03:15:52 +0100 | srz | (~srz@179.36.78.212) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2023-03-20 03:18:21 +0100 | srz | (~srz@179.36.78.212) |
| 2023-03-20 03:18:59 +0100 | freeside | (~mengwong@122.11.248.245) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 2023-03-20 03:21:35 +0100 | srz | (~srz@179.36.78.212) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2023-03-20 03:21:48 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@86-86-29-250.fixed.kpn.net) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
| 2023-03-20 03:21:50 +0100 | eggplantade | (~Eggplanta@2600:1700:38c5:d800:add4:765e:c41a:7ea4) |
| 2023-03-20 03:21:51 +0100 | srz | (~srz@179.36.78.212) |
| 2023-03-20 03:23:31 +0100 | [itchyjunk] | (~itchyjunk@user/itchyjunk/x-7353470) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) |
| 2023-03-20 03:24:47 +0100 | the_proffesor | (~theproffe@2601:282:8800:840::4b0f) |
| 2023-03-20 03:24:47 +0100 | the_proffesor | (~theproffe@2601:282:8800:840::4b0f) (Changing host) |
| 2023-03-20 03:24:47 +0100 | the_proffesor | (~theproffe@user/theproffesor) |
| 2023-03-20 03:28:45 +0100 | theproffesor_ | (~theproffe@2601:282:8800:840::821d) |
| 2023-03-20 03:28:56 +0100 | dcoutts | (~duncan@host86-167-90-128.range86-167.btcentralplus.com) |
| 2023-03-20 03:30:56 +0100 | dcoutts__ | (~duncan@host86-167-90-128.range86-167.btcentralplus.com) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2023-03-20 03:31:18 +0100 | Lord_of_Life_ | (~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915) |
| 2023-03-20 03:32:07 +0100 | Lord_of_Life | (~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 2023-03-20 03:32:36 +0100 | Lord_of_Life_ | Lord_of_Life |
| 2023-03-20 03:32:37 +0100 | the_proffesor | (~theproffe@user/theproffesor) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) |
| 2023-03-20 03:33:19 +0100 | [itchyjunk] | (~itchyjunk@user/itchyjunk/x-7353470) |
| 2023-03-20 03:35:17 +0100 | freeside | (~mengwong@122.11.248.245) |
| 2023-03-20 03:35:44 +0100 | the_proffesor | (~theproffe@2601:282:8800:840::20ee) |
| 2023-03-20 03:35:44 +0100 | the_proffesor | (~theproffe@2601:282:8800:840::20ee) (Changing host) |
| 2023-03-20 03:35:44 +0100 | the_proffesor | (~theproffe@user/theproffesor) |
| 2023-03-20 03:38:49 +0100 | srz | (~srz@179.36.78.212) (Quit: Leaving) |
| 2023-03-20 03:39:39 +0100 | machinedgod | (~machinedg@d198-53-218-113.abhsia.telus.net) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) |
| 2023-03-20 03:39:48 +0100 | mixfix41 | (~sdenynine@user/mixfix41) (Quit: stick with me) |
| 2023-03-20 03:40:03 +0100 | theproffesor_ | (~theproffe@2601:282:8800:840::821d) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 2023-03-20 03:40:16 +0100 | freeside | (~mengwong@122.11.248.245) (Ping timeout: 267 seconds) |
| 2023-03-20 03:40:30 +0100 | theproffesor_ | (~theproffe@2601:282:8800:840::5781) |
| 2023-03-20 03:41:44 +0100 | mixfix41 | (~sdenynine@user/mixfix41) |
| 2023-03-20 03:45:09 +0100 | the_proffesor | (~theproffe@user/theproffesor) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 2023-03-20 03:46:13 +0100 | the_proffesor | (~theproffe@2601:282:8800:840::9521) |
| 2023-03-20 03:46:13 +0100 | the_proffesor | (~theproffe@2601:282:8800:840::9521) (Changing host) |
| 2023-03-20 03:46:13 +0100 | the_proffesor | (~theproffe@user/theproffesor) |
| 2023-03-20 03:50:15 +0100 | theproffesor_ | (~theproffe@2601:282:8800:840::5781) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 2023-03-20 03:54:42 +0100 | gmg | (~user@user/gehmehgeh) |
| 2023-03-20 03:56:01 +0100 | the_proffesor | (~theproffe@user/theproffesor) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) |
| 2023-03-20 03:58:10 +0100 | jero98772 | (~jero98772@2800:484:1d80:d8ce:efcc:cbb3:7f2a:6dff) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2023-03-20 03:58:14 +0100 | gehmehgeh | (~user@user/gehmehgeh) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
| 2023-03-20 04:02:38 +0100 | gdr3941 | (~gregreich@2601:483:4800:5740:f998:7c21:2dc2:5367) |
| 2023-03-20 04:03:54 +0100 | kimjetwav | (~user@2607:fea8:235e:b600:9f24:e4a7:bfdd:ae72) |
| 2023-03-20 04:04:54 +0100 | mikoto-chan | (~mikoto-ch@dy54z4y1bml78xgm-ky0t-4.rev.dnainternet.fi) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 2023-03-20 04:16:30 +0100 | td_ | (~td@i5387093A.versanet.de) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 2023-03-20 04:18:19 +0100 | td_ | (~td@i5387092A.versanet.de) |
| 2023-03-20 04:23:18 +0100 | freeside | (~mengwong@122.11.248.245) |
| 2023-03-20 04:25:41 +0100 | razetime | (~Thunderbi@117.193.1.102) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 2023-03-20 04:26:19 +0100 | mikoto-chan | (~mikoto-ch@dy54z4y1t9qnwdj1ryyby-4.rev.dnainternet.fi) |
| 2023-03-20 04:27:07 +0100 | falafel | (~falafel@2603-8000-d700-115c-7bb8-b1e6-248b-2bac.res6.spectrum.com) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 2023-03-20 04:28:07 +0100 | freeside | (~mengwong@122.11.248.245) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 2023-03-20 04:32:28 +0100 | lisbeths | (uid135845@id-135845.lymington.irccloud.com) |
| 2023-03-20 04:32:37 +0100 | gdr3941 | (~gregreich@2601:483:4800:5740:f998:7c21:2dc2:5367) () |
| 2023-03-20 04:36:01 +0100 | kupi | (uid212005@id-212005.hampstead.irccloud.com) |
| 2023-03-20 04:41:24 +0100 | jushur | (~human@user/jushur) |
| 2023-03-20 04:42:26 +0100 | finnekit | (~finnekit@fsf/member/finnekit) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2023-03-20 04:44:12 +0100 | [itchyjunk] | (~itchyjunk@user/itchyjunk/x-7353470) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2023-03-20 04:46:12 +0100 | gdr3941 | (~user@2601:483:4800:5740:f998:7c21:2dc2:5367) |
| 2023-03-20 04:48:43 +0100 | finn_elija | (~finn_elij@user/finn-elija/x-0085643) |
| 2023-03-20 04:48:43 +0100 | FinnElija | (~finn_elij@user/finn-elija/x-0085643) (Killed (NickServ (Forcing logout FinnElija -> finn_elija))) |
| 2023-03-20 04:48:43 +0100 | finn_elija | FinnElija |
| 2023-03-20 04:48:59 +0100 | smallville7123_ | (~Android@cpe-172-193-179-86.qld.foxtel.net.au) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 2023-03-20 04:50:41 +0100 | azimut | (~azimut@gateway/tor-sasl/azimut) |
| 2023-03-20 04:52:16 +0100 | gurkenglas | (~gurkengla@dynamic-046-114-183-233.46.114.pool.telefonica.de) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 2023-03-20 05:00:33 +0100 | gdr3941 | (~user@2601:483:4800:5740:f998:7c21:2dc2:5367) (Quit: Fading out...) |
| 2023-03-20 05:00:45 +0100 | razetime | (~Thunderbi@117.193.3.134) |
| 2023-03-20 05:02:28 +0100 | gdr3941 | (~user@2601:483:4800:5740:f998:7c21:2dc2:5367) |
| 2023-03-20 05:06:46 +0100 | mbuf | (~Shakthi@49.207.178.186) |
| 2023-03-20 05:17:59 +0100 | jmorris | (uid537181@id-537181.uxbridge.irccloud.com) |
| 2023-03-20 05:18:33 +0100 | jakalx | (~jakalx@base.jakalx.net) |
| 2023-03-20 05:18:37 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@86-86-29-250.fixed.kpn.net) |
| 2023-03-20 05:19:45 +0100 | gdr3941 | (~user@2601:483:4800:5740:f998:7c21:2dc2:5367) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2023-03-20 05:19:58 +0100 | gdr3941 | (~user@2601:483:4800:5740:f998:7c21:2dc2:5367) |
| 2023-03-20 05:23:45 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@86-86-29-250.fixed.kpn.net) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
| 2023-03-20 05:24:43 +0100 | gdr3941 | (~user@2601:483:4800:5740:f998:7c21:2dc2:5367) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 2023-03-20 05:27:45 +0100 | gdr3941 | (~user@2601:483:4800:5740:f998:7c21:2dc2:5367) |
| 2023-03-20 05:32:32 +0100 | gdr3941 | (~user@2601:483:4800:5740:f998:7c21:2dc2:5367) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2023-03-20 05:34:15 +0100 | razetime1 | (~Thunderbi@117.254.35.66) |
| 2023-03-20 05:36:15 +0100 | razetime | (~Thunderbi@117.193.3.134) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 2023-03-20 05:36:16 +0100 | razetime1 | razetime |
| 2023-03-20 05:38:13 +0100 | waleee | (~waleee@2001:9b0:21c:4000:5bf9:6515:c030:57b7) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2023-03-20 05:40:10 +0100 | gdr3941 | (~user@2601:483:4800:5740:f998:7c21:2dc2:5367) |
| 2023-03-20 05:40:50 +0100 | trev | (~trev@user/trev) |
| 2023-03-20 05:46:25 +0100 | gdr3941 | (~user@2601:483:4800:5740:f998:7c21:2dc2:5367) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 2023-03-20 05:46:54 +0100 | freeside | (~mengwong@122.11.248.245) |
| 2023-03-20 05:48:06 +0100 | gdr3941 | (~user@2601:483:4800:5740:f998:7c21:2dc2:5367) |
| 2023-03-20 05:51:43 +0100 | freeside | (~mengwong@122.11.248.245) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 2023-03-20 05:53:01 +0100 | gdr3941 | (~user@2601:483:4800:5740:f998:7c21:2dc2:5367) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) |
| 2023-03-20 06:01:11 +0100 | finnekit | (~finnekit@fsf/member/finnekit) |
| 2023-03-20 06:04:05 +0100 | gdr3941 | (~user@2601:483:4800:5740:f998:7c21:2dc2:5367) |
| 2023-03-20 06:11:03 +0100 | mikoto-chan | (~mikoto-ch@dy54z4y1t9qnwdj1ryyby-4.rev.dnainternet.fi) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 2023-03-20 06:11:07 +0100 | gdr3941 | (~user@2601:483:4800:5740:f998:7c21:2dc2:5367) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 2023-03-20 06:18:54 +0100 | raym | (~ray@user/raym) |
| 2023-03-20 06:21:49 +0100 | razetime1 | (~Thunderbi@117.193.3.23) |
| 2023-03-20 06:22:38 +0100 | razetime | (~Thunderbi@117.254.35.66) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2023-03-20 06:22:39 +0100 | razetime1 | razetime |
| 2023-03-20 06:22:54 +0100 | gdr3941 | (~user@2601:483:4800:5740:f998:7c21:2dc2:5367) |
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| 2023-03-20 06:27:29 +0100 | gdr3941 | (~user@2601:483:4800:5740:f998:7c21:2dc2:5367) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2023-03-20 06:36:44 +0100 | freeside | (~mengwong@122.11.248.245) |
| 2023-03-20 06:39:52 +0100 | gdr3941 | (~user@2601:483:4800:5740:f998:7c21:2dc2:5367) |
| 2023-03-20 06:40:46 +0100 | dcoutts_ | (~duncan@host86-176-29-87.range86-176.btcentralplus.com) |
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| 2023-03-20 06:51:06 +0100 | razetime1 | (~Thunderbi@117.193.0.52) |
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| 2023-03-20 06:52:36 +0100 | razetime | (~Thunderbi@117.193.0.52) (Client Quit) |
| 2023-03-20 06:55:20 +0100 | razetime | (~Thunderbi@117.193.0.52) |
| 2023-03-20 07:01:14 +0100 | razetime | (~Thunderbi@117.193.0.52) (Quit: See You Space Cowboy) |
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| 2023-03-20 07:58:05 +0100 | emmanuelux_ | (~emmanuelu@user/emmanuelux) (Quit: au revoir) |
| 2023-03-20 07:59:44 +0100 | smallville7123 | (~Android@cpe-172-193-179-86.qld.foxtel.net.au) |
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| 2023-03-20 08:06:57 +0100 | falafel | (~falafel@2603-8000-d700-115c-1dac-23d3-4896-ea0f.res6.spectrum.com) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 2023-03-20 08:07:23 +0100 | adanwan | (~adanwan@gateway/tor-sasl/adanwan) |
| 2023-03-20 08:15:02 +0100 | Taneb0 | Taneb |
| 2023-03-20 08:17:19 +0100 | sagax | (~sagax_nb@user/sagax) (Quit: Konversation terminated!) |
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| 2023-03-20 08:19:16 +0100 | harveypwca | (~harveypwc@2601:246:c180:a570:3828:d8:e523:3f67) (Quit: Leaving) |
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| 2023-03-20 08:26:51 +0100 | jakalx | (~jakalx@base.jakalx.net) () |
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| 2023-03-20 09:45:04 +0100 | <siers69> | Is the Num typeclass encoding numbers in a tagless final style? It has a typeclass over repr, defining an algebra that returns the repr (in the code repr is "a"). It can be both ints and strings. |
| 2023-03-20 09:47:26 +0100 | tzh | (~tzh@c-24-21-73-154.hsd1.or.comcast.net) (Quit: zzz) |
| 2023-03-20 09:53:43 +0100 | mastarija | (~mastarija@188.252.197.201) (Quit: WeeChat 3.7.1) |
| 2023-03-20 10:00:09 +0100 | charukiewicz[m] | (~charukiew@2001:470:69fc:105::ded4) (Quit: You have been kicked for being idle) |
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| 2023-03-20 10:13:01 +0100 | Guest97 | (~Guest97@178.233.29.85) |
| 2023-03-20 10:28:05 +0100 | dcoutts | (~duncan@host86-150-41-249.range86-150.btcentralplus.com) |
| 2023-03-20 10:30:49 +0100 | dcoutts_ | (~duncan@host86-176-29-87.range86-176.btcentralplus.com) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 2023-03-20 10:31:12 +0100 | econo | (uid147250@user/econo) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) |
| 2023-03-20 10:32:41 +0100 | mastarija | (~mastarija@188.252.197.201) |
| 2023-03-20 10:34:38 +0100 | gdr3941 | (~user@2601:483:4800:5740:f998:7c21:2dc2:5367) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2023-03-20 10:34:43 +0100 | <[exa]> | siers69: that's a radical look at the problem but I'd say yeah |
| 2023-03-20 10:36:46 +0100 | <dminuoso> | siers69: Mmm, I think tagless final is less about immediate combinators, than it is about structure programs. That is keeping the "leaves of your program" in a polymorphic form. |
| 2023-03-20 10:39:02 +0100 | mastarija | (~mastarija@188.252.197.201) (Quit: WeeChat 3.7.1) |
| 2023-03-20 10:45:22 +0100 | vglfr | (~vglfr@46.96.158.131) |
| 2023-03-20 10:45:38 +0100 | <[exa]> | yeah well, `1` is a perfectly polymorphic leaf right? |
| 2023-03-20 10:46:04 +0100 | <dminuoso> | Sure, but I rather when when your top level declarations of your programs are written polymorphic over `Num p => ... p ...` |
| 2023-03-20 10:46:30 +0100 | <dminuoso> | But I suppose from the perspective of ghc, its a tagless final encoding |
| 2023-03-20 10:46:35 +0100 | <dminuoso> | or `base` rather. |
| 2023-03-20 10:48:15 +0100 | gdr3941 | (~user@2601:483:4800:5740:f998:7c21:2dc2:5367) |
| 2023-03-20 10:48:24 +0100 | <[exa]> | it's certainly not "usual" way to encode stuff, but the better it is actually. I can't find any separating property that would say it's not TF. |
| 2023-03-20 10:51:03 +0100 | Guest97 | (~Guest97@178.233.29.85) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2023-03-20 10:53:20 +0100 | ft | (~ft@p3e9bc443.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Quit: leaving) |
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| 2023-03-20 10:56:27 +0100 | gurkenglas | (~gurkengla@dynamic-046-114-183-233.46.114.pool.telefonica.de) |
| 2023-03-20 10:56:51 +0100 | mmhat | (~mmh@p200300f1c715f775ee086bfffe095315.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 2023-03-20 11:01:11 +0100 | eggplantade | (~Eggplanta@104-55-37-220.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) |
| 2023-03-20 11:02:59 +0100 | vglfr | (~vglfr@46.96.158.131) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2023-03-20 11:03:45 +0100 | vglfr | (~vglfr@46.96.158.131) |
| 2023-03-20 11:05:55 +0100 | eggplantade | (~Eggplanta@104-55-37-220.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 2023-03-20 11:07:24 +0100 | kuribas | (~user@ip-188-118-57-242.reverse.destiny.be) |
| 2023-03-20 11:07:33 +0100 | gdr3941 | (~user@2601:483:4800:5740:f998:7c21:2dc2:5367) |
| 2023-03-20 11:08:03 +0100 | <kuribas> | Is there a good dataframe library for haskell? |
| 2023-03-20 11:08:06 +0100 | <kuribas> | I found Frame, but it is quite heavy on the type level (using vynil) |
| 2023-03-20 11:08:12 +0100 | <kuribas> | Then there is heidi, which looks easier to use. |
| 2023-03-20 11:08:15 +0100 | <kuribas> | Anyone used any of these? |
| 2023-03-20 11:11:06 +0100 | mikoto-chan | (~mikoto-ch@194.136.169.101) |
| 2023-03-20 11:11:11 +0100 | dsp | (~dsp@host86-137-135-17.range86-137.btcentralplus.com) |
| 2023-03-20 11:13:48 +0100 | chele | (~chele@user/chele) |
| 2023-03-20 11:14:26 +0100 | <kuribas> | But heidi seems to use an inefficient list representation... |
| 2023-03-20 11:17:31 +0100 | jmorris | (uid537181@id-537181.uxbridge.irccloud.com) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) |
| 2023-03-20 11:18:44 +0100 | acidjnk | (~acidjnk@p200300d6e715c483dd18d0975368fd0c.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2023-03-20 11:19:10 +0100 | <dminuoso> | kuribas: What about repa? |
| 2023-03-20 11:19:30 +0100 | <siers69> | [exa], right! |
| 2023-03-20 11:21:34 +0100 | <kuribas> | dminuoso: isn't repa more like numpy arrays, rather than pandas dataframes? |
| 2023-03-20 11:24:18 +0100 | mikoto-chan | (~mikoto-ch@194.136.169.101) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2023-03-20 11:27:10 +0100 | mastarija | (~mastarija@188.252.197.201) |
| 2023-03-20 11:31:15 +0100 | mikoto-chan | (~mikoto-ch@193.66.184.122) |
| 2023-03-20 11:34:53 +0100 | dsp | (~dsp@host86-137-135-17.range86-137.btcentralplus.com) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 2023-03-20 11:35:22 +0100 | xff0x | (~xff0x@125x103x176x34.ap125.ftth.ucom.ne.jp) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 2023-03-20 11:40:34 +0100 | mastarija | (~mastarija@188.252.197.201) (Quit: WeeChat 3.7.1) |
| 2023-03-20 11:42:29 +0100 | lagash | (lagash@lagash.shelltalk.net) (Quit: ZNC - https://znc.in) |
| 2023-03-20 11:43:34 +0100 | szkl | (uid110435@id-110435.uxbridge.irccloud.com) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) |
| 2023-03-20 11:43:44 +0100 | mikoto-chan | (~mikoto-ch@193.66.184.122) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) |
| 2023-03-20 11:44:06 +0100 | dsp | (~dsp@host86-137-135-17.range86-137.btcentralplus.com) |
| 2023-03-20 11:45:51 +0100 | mikoto-chan | (~mikoto-ch@193.66.184.122) |
| 2023-03-20 11:47:29 +0100 | <dminuoso> | I dont quite know your desired access patterns |
| 2023-03-20 11:50:41 +0100 | <kuribas> | timeseries with different variables mostly |
| 2023-03-20 11:50:55 +0100 | lagash | (lagash@lagash.shelltalk.net) |
| 2023-03-20 11:51:07 +0100 | <kuribas> | the need to merge dataframes. |
| 2023-03-20 11:51:19 +0100 | <kuribas> | calculate averages, transformations, etc... |
| 2023-03-20 11:52:50 +0100 | <TheMatten[m]> | Table in https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/wikis/dependent-haskell#4-quantifiers is technically missing two types of quantifiers - visible and invisible non-dependent erased ones |
| 2023-03-20 11:52:51 +0100 | <TheMatten[m]> | In principle, wouldn't some equivalent of `unsafe` in Rust qualify as example for latter? (In HS it can be approximated by nullary typeclass) |
| 2023-03-20 11:53:15 +0100 | mikoto-chan | (~mikoto-ch@193.66.184.122) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 2023-03-20 11:53:22 +0100 | Sciencentistguy3 | (~sciencent@hacksoc/ordinary-member) |
| 2023-03-20 11:53:31 +0100 | vglfr | (~vglfr@46.96.158.131) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 2023-03-20 11:54:00 +0100 | vglfr | (~vglfr@88.155.5.251) |
| 2023-03-20 11:55:50 +0100 | Sciencentistguy | (~sciencent@hacksoc/ordinary-member) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2023-03-20 11:55:50 +0100 | Sciencentistguy3 | Sciencentistguy |
| 2023-03-20 12:00:55 +0100 | jinsl- | (~jinsl@123.120.195.215) |
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| 2023-03-20 12:08:01 +0100 | mastarija | (~mastarija@188.252.197.201) |
| 2023-03-20 12:08:14 +0100 | dsp | (~dsp@host86-137-135-17.range86-137.btcentralplus.com) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 2023-03-20 12:09:12 +0100 | L29Ah | (~L29Ah@wikipedia/L29Ah) |
| 2023-03-20 12:09:23 +0100 | acidjnk | (~acidjnk@p200300d6e715c483659304cc434f2db7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 2023-03-20 12:13:33 +0100 | kmein | (~weechat@user/kmein) (Quit: ciao kakao) |
| 2023-03-20 12:13:55 +0100 | gdr3941 | (~user@2601:483:4800:5740:f998:7c21:2dc2:5367) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) |
| 2023-03-20 12:14:14 +0100 | vglfr | (~vglfr@88.155.5.251) |
| 2023-03-20 12:15:44 +0100 | kmein | (~weechat@static.173.83.99.88.clients.your-server.de) |
| 2023-03-20 12:21:11 +0100 | NiceBird | (~NiceBird@185.133.111.196) |
| 2023-03-20 12:24:58 +0100 | gdr3941 | (~user@2601:483:4800:5740:f998:7c21:2dc2:5367) |
| 2023-03-20 12:28:01 +0100 | kmein | (~weechat@static.173.83.99.88.clients.your-server.de) (Quit: ciao kakao) |
| 2023-03-20 12:28:24 +0100 | kmein | (~weechat@static.173.83.99.88.clients.your-server.de) |
| 2023-03-20 12:29:44 +0100 | gdr3941 | (~user@2601:483:4800:5740:f998:7c21:2dc2:5367) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2023-03-20 12:31:38 +0100 | robobub | (uid248673@id-248673.uxbridge.irccloud.com) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) |
| 2023-03-20 12:31:41 +0100 | xff0x | (~xff0x@ai098135.d.east.v6connect.net) |
| 2023-03-20 12:31:42 +0100 | Alex_test | (~al_test@178.34.160.55) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
| 2023-03-20 12:32:09 +0100 | AlexZenon | (~alzenon@178.34.160.55) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
| 2023-03-20 12:34:00 +0100 | Alex_test | (~al_test@178.34.160.55) |
| 2023-03-20 12:34:47 +0100 | AlexZenon | (~alzenon@178.34.160.55) |
| 2023-03-20 12:35:19 +0100 | lagash | (lagash@lagash.shelltalk.net) (Quit: ZNC - https://znc.in) |
| 2023-03-20 12:35:47 +0100 | vglfr | (~vglfr@88.155.5.251) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 2023-03-20 12:35:50 +0100 | lagash | (lagash@lagash.shelltalk.net) |
| 2023-03-20 12:36:43 +0100 | freeside | (~mengwong@122.11.248.245) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 2023-03-20 12:37:18 +0100 | gdr3941 | (~user@2601:483:4800:5740:f998:7c21:2dc2:5367) |
| 2023-03-20 12:37:27 +0100 | <mesaoptimizer2> | "Of course, just as in GHC/Haskell today, to reach the more sophisticated corners of the type system the programmer must supply some type annotations (for example, define higher-rank types, guide impredicative type inference, check GADT pattern-matches), but the goal is to have simple, predictable rules to say when such annotations are necessary." interesting |
| 2023-03-20 12:42:21 +0100 | gdr3941 | (~user@2601:483:4800:5740:f998:7c21:2dc2:5367) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 2023-03-20 12:42:55 +0100 | vpan | (~0@212.117.1.172) |
| 2023-03-20 12:44:04 +0100 | gdr3941 | (~user@2601:483:4800:5740:f998:7c21:2dc2:5367) |
| 2023-03-20 12:45:39 +0100 | Guest2579 | (~m-mzmz6l@vmi833741.contaboserver.net) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
| 2023-03-20 12:51:56 +0100 | lisbeths | (uid135845@id-135845.lymington.irccloud.com) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) |
| 2023-03-20 12:52:49 +0100 | NiceBird | (~NiceBird@185.133.111.196) (Quit: Leaving) |
| 2023-03-20 12:55:51 +0100 | <AWizzArd> | Servant: I would look to add a new type combinator `Foo`. When this is present in the URL then the handler must have a new Int parameter. In every run a new random Int will be provided to that Handler. I got this working but it "feels" incorrect, because I use/abuse the addAuthCheck function from an internal module. Here is my route implementation for the HasServer class: |
| 2023-03-20 12:56:13 +0100 | <AWizzArd> | route Proxy context subserver = route (Proxy :: Proxy api) context $ addAuthCheck subserver (withRequest (\_req -> liftIO randomIO)) |
| 2023-03-20 12:57:29 +0100 | <AWizzArd> | Is there a better way to achieve this? Without using addAuthCheck? Without using something from a module named “Internal”? |
| 2023-03-20 12:57:34 +0100 | root | (~m-mzmz6l@vmi833741.contaboserver.net) |
| 2023-03-20 12:57:42 +0100 | root | Guest3140 |
| 2023-03-20 12:59:12 +0100 | <dminuoso> | AWizzArd: I would just use Context, an external IORef and a counter in a reader environment for handlers. |
| 2023-03-20 12:59:16 +0100 | lagash | (lagash@lagash.shelltalk.net) (Quit: ZNC - https://znc.in) |
| 2023-03-20 12:59:17 +0100 | <dminuoso> | Or uh |
| 2023-03-20 12:59:21 +0100 | <dminuoso> | Do you just want this for some endpoints? |
| 2023-03-20 12:59:27 +0100 | lagash | (lagash@lagash.shelltalk.net) |
| 2023-03-20 12:59:55 +0100 | <AWizzArd> | dminuoso: I want this as a reusable Combinator. This Foo thing is just for learning how the Servant API works, to see how I can add my own Combinators. |
| 2023-03-20 13:00:06 +0100 | <dminuoso> | I see. |
| 2023-03-20 13:00:50 +0100 | <AWizzArd> | dminuoso: when you say `Context`, are you then talking about this one here? https://hackage.haskell.org/package/servant-server-0.19.2/docs/Servant-Server-Internal-Context.html |
| 2023-03-20 13:01:09 +0100 | <dminuoso> | Yeah, but if your goal is to just practice with combinators, ignore Context entirely |
| 2023-03-20 13:02:16 +0100 | <AWizzArd> | I will need to produce a Router. I saw that calling `route` itself again in my own implementation could deliver me one. |
| 2023-03-20 13:03:00 +0100 | Guest3140 | (~m-mzmz6l@vmi833741.contaboserver.net) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2023-03-20 13:03:47 +0100 | root__ | (~m-mzmz6l@vmi833741.contaboserver.net) |
| 2023-03-20 13:05:26 +0100 | <dminuoso> | Mmm, I have come to a new revelation. `when (foo /= Bar)` .. can be quite brittle because you do not have pattern match coverage checker at your back. |
| 2023-03-20 13:05:42 +0100 | Midjak | (~Midjak@82.66.147.146) |
| 2023-03-20 13:05:55 +0100 | <dminuoso> | Something like `case foo of ...` with explicit branches, potentially having `pure ()` leads to better regression detection when constructors get added |
| 2023-03-20 13:07:12 +0100 | hugo | (znc@verdigris.lysator.liu.se) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
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| 2023-03-20 15:10:41 +0100 | monoidal | (~monoidal@2a01cb0801ce4b004a3097b2a6e32336.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2023-03-20 15:12:15 +0100 | root | (~m-mzmz6l@vmi833741.contaboserver.net) |
| 2023-03-20 15:12:38 +0100 | root | Guest621 |
| 2023-03-20 15:15:24 +0100 | freeside | (~mengwong@103.252.202.85) |
| 2023-03-20 15:22:46 +0100 | mixfix41 | (~sdenynine@user/mixfix41) (Quit: [BX] "got bitchx?") |
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| 2023-03-20 15:30:59 +0100 | Lord_of_Life_ | (~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915) |
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| 2023-03-20 15:32:32 +0100 | Lord_of_Life_ | Lord_of_Life |
| 2023-03-20 15:32:48 +0100 | sagax | (~sagax_nb@user/sagax) |
| 2023-03-20 15:33:04 +0100 | xiliuya | (~xiliuya@user/xiliuya) (Quit: Bye~) |
| 2023-03-20 15:44:44 +0100 | jero98772 | (~jero98772@2800:484:1d80:d8ce:efcc:cbb3:7f2a:6dff) |
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| 2023-03-20 15:56:30 +0100 | albet70 | (~xxx@2400:8902::f03c:92ff:fe60:98d8) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2023-03-20 16:02:37 +0100 | albet70 | (~xxx@2400:8902::f03c:92ff:fe60:98d8) |
| 2023-03-20 16:09:31 +0100 | eggplantade | (~Eggplanta@2600:1700:38c5:d800:a807:948e:ff4f:3b94) |
| 2023-03-20 16:10:49 +0100 | famubu | (~famubu@user/famubu) |
| 2023-03-20 16:12:12 +0100 | <famubu> | Hi. Is there a way to print unicode strings in haskell? I was trying out in the string "x²" in ghci and the '²' just gets printed as ??. |
| 2023-03-20 16:12:53 +0100 | <merijn> | famubu: how did you print? |
| 2023-03-20 16:13:00 +0100 | <merijn> | tbh, sounds like your locale is busted |
| 2023-03-20 16:14:08 +0100 | gnalzo | (~gnalzo@2a01:e0a:498:fd50:fcc6:bb5d:489a:ce8c) (Quit: WeeChat 3.8) |
| 2023-03-20 16:14:20 +0100 | <geekosaur> | > text "x²" |
| 2023-03-20 16:14:22 +0100 | <lambdabot> | x² |
| 2023-03-20 16:15:20 +0100 | <merijn> | famubu: Also, what does it print if you run "locale" in your shell? |
| 2023-03-20 16:16:06 +0100 | <famubu> | ghci> putStrLn "x??" -- x?? |
| 2023-03-20 16:16:40 +0100 | <merijn> | Something's already going wrong sooner it seems? |
| 2023-03-20 16:16:50 +0100 | <merijn> | λ putStrLn "x²" |
| 2023-03-20 16:16:50 +0100 | <merijn> | x² |
| 2023-03-20 16:17:20 +0100 | <merijn> | the string literal already having ?? has me suspecting messed up locale even more |
| 2023-03-20 16:17:39 +0100 | vglfr | (~vglfr@88.155.43.86) |
| 2023-03-20 16:18:15 +0100 | irrgit_ | (~irrgit@89.47.234.26) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2023-03-20 16:18:40 +0100 | irrgit_ | (~irrgit@146.70.27.218) |
| 2023-03-20 16:18:44 +0100 | <dminuoso> | Something between your shell having borked unicode support/setting, your terminal emulator doing some nonsense and locale misconfigured |
| 2023-03-20 16:18:52 +0100 | <dminuoso> | All possible. |
| 2023-03-20 16:19:24 +0100 | <dminuoso> | How is this ghci run? Local terminal? |
| 2023-03-20 16:19:26 +0100 | <dminuoso> | Local shell? |
| 2023-03-20 16:19:35 +0100 | <famubu> | I guess it's my computer config problem.. |
| 2023-03-20 16:19:44 +0100 | <famubu> | Output from `locale`: https://bpa.st/PDQX6 |
| 2023-03-20 16:19:56 +0100 | <famubu> | It shows correct unicode when trying from emacs |
| 2023-03-20 16:20:03 +0100 | <dminuoso> | famubu: How do you run ghci exactly |
| 2023-03-20 16:20:06 +0100 | <famubu> | I was running ghci from a normal terminal earlier. |
| 2023-03-20 16:20:14 +0100 | <merijn> | famubu: Try setting LC_ALL to en_US.UTF-8 too? |
| 2023-03-20 16:20:26 +0100 | <merijn> | If that doesn't work, probably your terminal config is busted |
| 2023-03-20 16:20:35 +0100 | <dminuoso> | merijn: that shouldnt be necessary really |
| 2023-03-20 16:20:43 +0100 | <dminuoso> | Given that *all* other are set correctly |
| 2023-03-20 16:20:46 +0100 | <merijn> | dminuoso: I'm paranoid :p |
| 2023-03-20 16:21:17 +0100 | <dminuoso> | famubu: what terminal emulator? and what shell? |
| 2023-03-20 16:21:50 +0100 | <dminuoso> | and how is the shell launched (perhaps there's some weird output redirection going on) |
| 2023-03-20 16:22:17 +0100 | <dminuoso> | famubu: and when you type x² does it look borked on the echo already? |
| 2023-03-20 16:22:20 +0100 | <dminuoso> | or just when you copy+paste it? |
| 2023-03-20 16:22:38 +0100 | gdr3941 | (~user@2601:483:4800:5740:f998:7c21:2dc2:5367) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2023-03-20 16:22:40 +0100 | <dminuoso> | Im fairly sure ghci doesnt run in raw mode, so if the echo is borked, it's your shell at minimum. |
| 2023-03-20 16:22:51 +0100 | gdr3941 | (~user@2601:483:4800:5740:f998:7c21:2dc2:5367) |
| 2023-03-20 16:22:51 +0100 | <dminuoso> | but more likely the terminal emulator |
| 2023-03-20 16:23:08 +0100 | <famubu> | gnome-terminal but accessing another computer through ssh and screen |
| 2023-03-20 16:23:22 +0100 | <geekosaur> | um |
| 2023-03-20 16:23:28 +0100 | jonathank | (~jonathank@81-226-21-87-no256.tbcn.telia.com) |
| 2023-03-20 16:23:29 +0100 | <geekosaur> | this sounds familiar |
| 2023-03-20 16:23:52 +0100 | <dminuoso> | famubu: I guess we have to talk about the shell and locale in between as well. |
| 2023-03-20 16:24:00 +0100 | <dminuoso> | and as for screen.. okay really not sure. |
| 2023-03-20 16:24:10 +0100 | <famubu> | when I type the text in the terminal it displays okay. Only inside ghci ?? is showing up |
| 2023-03-20 16:24:11 +0100 | <dminuoso> | Not even sure what screen does. |
| 2023-03-20 16:24:26 +0100 | <dminuoso> | famubu: Right as you type it, on the echo? |
| 2023-03-20 16:24:38 +0100 | <geekosaur> | try `screen -U`` |
| 2023-03-20 16:24:52 +0100 | <famubu> | dminuoso: Yeah. echo "x²" # x² |
| 2023-03-20 16:24:58 +0100 | eggplantade | (~Eggplanta@2600:1700:38c5:d800:a807:948e:ff4f:3b94) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2023-03-20 16:25:10 +0100 | <dminuoso> | Okay now Im genuinely curious. |
| 2023-03-20 16:25:40 +0100 | jonathank | (~jonathank@81-226-21-87-no256.tbcn.telia.com) (Quit: jonathank) |
| 2023-03-20 16:25:41 +0100 | gdr3941 | (~user@2601:483:4800:5740:f998:7c21:2dc2:5367) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2023-03-20 16:25:54 +0100 | gdr3941 | (~user@2601:483:4800:5740:f998:7c21:2dc2:5367) |
| 2023-03-20 16:26:10 +0100 | ray_caster | (~ray_caste@81-226-21-87-no256.tbcn.telia.com) |
| 2023-03-20 16:28:38 +0100 | <famubu> | geekosaur: Just tried access the computer directly without screen. Still ?? shows up instead of the character... No idea what's happening. |
| 2023-03-20 16:29:05 +0100 | <dminuoso> | I wonder, is ghc perhaps compiled without unicode support on that machine? Is that even possible? |
| 2023-03-20 16:29:24 +0100 | <dminuoso> | famubu: what `locale` do you get when running directly? |
| 2023-03-20 16:30:11 +0100 | <famubu> | Is there a way to find out? I'm using ghc from nix if that can cause any trouble.. |
| 2023-03-20 16:30:24 +0100 | <geekosaur> | not possible. unicode was hardwired before 6.12, controlled by locale since then |
| 2023-03-20 16:30:59 +0100 | <dminuoso> | famubu: run `locale` on the same shell you tried it on locally] |
| 2023-03-20 16:31:08 +0100 | <dminuoso> | 16:28:38 famubu | geekosaur: Just tried access the computer directly without screen. Still ?? shows up instead of the character... No idea what's happening. |
| 2023-03-20 16:31:10 +0100 | gdr3941 | (~user@2601:483:4800:5740:f998:7c21:2dc2:5367) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 2023-03-20 16:31:11 +0100 | <dminuoso> | That is inside that same context |
| 2023-03-20 16:31:46 +0100 | <famubu> | dibblego: Tried `locale` directly on the computer. There is a slight change and there are no warning: https://bpa.st/2NGQC |
| 2023-03-20 16:31:54 +0100 | <famubu> | oops.. |
| 2023-03-20 16:32:09 +0100 | <famubu> | I meant to mention dminuoso |
| 2023-03-20 16:32:10 +0100 | kenaryn | (~aurele@89-88-44-27.abo.bbox.fr) |
| 2023-03-20 16:32:12 +0100 | <geekosaur> | I am confused here. haskeline is a bit of a trainwreck but should handle unicode fine (and does here, and apparently for merijn) |
| 2023-03-20 16:32:26 +0100 | <dminuoso> | Ah does haskeline run in raw mode? |
| 2023-03-20 16:32:34 +0100 | <merijn> | geekosaur: What makes haskeline a trainwreck? |
| 2023-03-20 16:32:37 +0100 | <merijn> | It's pretty nice, tbh |
| 2023-03-20 16:32:55 +0100 | <geekosaur> | mostly that it hasn't had a maintainer for years |
| 2023-03-20 16:33:17 +0100 | econo | (uid147250@user/econo) |
| 2023-03-20 16:33:19 +0100 | <geekosaur> | and ghc has to work around a number of bugs as a result |
| 2023-03-20 16:33:32 +0100 | <dminuoso> | So what you really meant to say "the community is a trainwreck" |
| 2023-03-20 16:33:47 +0100 | <dminuoso> | Place the blame where it belongs. |
| 2023-03-20 16:33:49 +0100 | <geekosaur> | (I may yet break down and NMU/take over the package) |
| 2023-03-20 16:34:13 +0100 | <merijn> | geekosaur: ?? it was still worked on in 2020/2021 |
| 2023-03-20 16:34:13 +0100 | <dminuoso> | If nobody wants to pick up a widely used library, that's really a collective failure but not an issue of a package |
| 2023-03-20 16:34:17 +0100 | <merijn> | So hardly "years" |
| 2023-03-20 16:34:37 +0100 | <mauke> | 2020 was three years ago |
| 2023-03-20 16:34:58 +0100 | <geekosaur> | hm. admittedly I was going by ben complaining about it in #ghc |
| 2023-03-20 16:35:09 +0100 | <geekosaur> | and/or phyx |
| 2023-03-20 16:35:15 +0100 | <famubu> | Well unicode seems to work okay on interactive-haskell-mode (I guess it's outdated, but not yet familiar with the newer ones). I can work with that for now. |
| 2023-03-20 16:35:22 +0100 | <famubu> | Thanks for the help, folks! :) |
| 2023-03-20 16:36:13 +0100 | shriekingnoise | (~shrieking@186.137.175.87) |
| 2023-03-20 16:36:49 +0100 | <dminuoso> | famubu: consider filing a bug though, probably on ghc |
| 2023-03-20 16:37:06 +0100 | <dminuoso> | (while it may be haskeline, I think its a safer thing to start there since its ghc that gives you a UI that doesnt quite work as expected) |
| 2023-03-20 16:37:33 +0100 | <dminuoso> | And if they point to haskeline, so be it. But perhaps ghc is using haskeline wrong *shrugs* |
| 2023-03-20 16:39:21 +0100 | gdr3941 | (~user@2601:483:4800:5740:f998:7c21:2dc2:5367) |
| 2023-03-20 16:40:45 +0100 | pkal | (soju@2a01:4f8:1c1c:bd2c::1) |
| 2023-03-20 16:43:38 +0100 | <pkal> | since when is ghcup a thing? |
| 2023-03-20 16:44:17 +0100 | <merijn> | pkal: *at least* 2020, according to the copyright notes |
| 2023-03-20 16:44:55 +0100 | <dminuoso> | Since 2018. |
| 2023-03-20 16:45:13 +0100 | <dminuoso> | But roughly since 2020 it went into an official position |
| 2023-03-20 16:45:33 +0100 | <dminuoso> | It was a rather gradual process |
| 2023-03-20 16:46:05 +0100 | <pkal> | I am sorry to say this but it is pretty sad. |
| 2023-03-20 16:46:36 +0100 | <dminuoso> | Care to elaborate? |
| 2023-03-20 16:46:39 +0100 | lortabac | (~lortabac@2a01:e0a:541:b8f0:a481:627b:18e8:f88b) (Quit: WeeChat 2.8) |
| 2023-03-20 16:46:46 +0100 | <pkal> | From what I see this is the resignation to manage software using your standard package manager. |
| 2023-03-20 16:47:01 +0100 | <eldritchcookie[m> | how hard would it be to make a application similar to maptool? not supporting all features just the map, tokens and server connecting/hosting? |
| 2023-03-20 16:47:10 +0100 | <eldritchcookie[m> | in haskell obviously |
| 2023-03-20 16:48:44 +0100 | <geekosaur> | pkal, why are you complaining about that to us? (see also rustup) |
| 2023-03-20 16:48:55 +0100 | <dminuoso> | I think it's fair to bring the point up. |
| 2023-03-20 16:49:04 +0100 | <dminuoso> | pkal: And yes, it is. |
| 2023-03-20 16:49:08 +0100 | <geekosaur> | getting debian/ubuntu to keep up to date is not something we can do |
| 2023-03-20 16:49:28 +0100 | <pkal> | geekosaur: I'm sorry, I have been frustrating about this for a while and had to vent |
| 2023-03-20 16:49:29 +0100 | <dminuoso> | pkal: For starters multiple concurrent versions is very difficult in a portable way across package managers. |
| 2023-03-20 16:49:39 +0100 | <dminuoso> | So having two different Haskell compilers simultaneously, for example. |
| 2023-03-20 16:49:54 +0100 | <dminuoso> | Doing this in a way that no frustration arises for either the package maintainers or the user is near impossible |
| 2023-03-20 16:50:02 +0100 | <yushyin> | i don't like to mix my system environment with my dev environment anyway and am quite happy to be able to keep it as separate as possible |
| 2023-03-20 16:50:13 +0100 | <dminuoso> | And this is a realistic constraint |
| 2023-03-20 16:50:21 +0100 | <eldritchcookie[m> | nix has no problem managing my system and ghc versions |
| 2023-03-20 16:50:31 +0100 | <dminuoso> | eldritchcookie[m: sure, but nix is a pretty hefty buy-in |
| 2023-03-20 16:50:41 +0100 | <dminuoso> | We're rather comparing ghcup to regular package managers here |
| 2023-03-20 16:50:43 +0100 | <pkal> | nix/guix would be an acceptable alternative, but I haven't had luck on that fron either. |
| 2023-03-20 16:51:12 +0100 | <dminuoso> | pkal: another thing is that you end up with fragmented responsibilities like who maintains packages for distribution x, and who for distribution y? |
| 2023-03-20 16:51:25 +0100 | <dminuoso> | Further, it decreases the velocity by which you can ship new compilers |
| 2023-03-20 16:51:36 +0100 | <dminuoso> | especially if some distributions have strict guideliness pinning major versions to distribution upgrades |
| 2023-03-20 16:51:50 +0100 | <dminuoso> | and that causes quite a lot of frictions when users cant compile your project because the vendor refuses to be up-to-date with compilers |
| 2023-03-20 16:52:07 +0100 | <dminuoso> | and it becomes a human resource problem, who maintains packages for all the different distributions? |
| 2023-03-20 16:52:12 +0100 | <dminuoso> | who pays them? who has control over that? |
| 2023-03-20 16:52:16 +0100 | <pkal> | dminuoso: the last point is not necessarily something I think is bad. I certainly can appreciate languages that develop slowly. |
| 2023-03-20 16:53:04 +0100 | <dminuoso> | pkal: GHC is not just a production compiler, it also serves as a foundation for research into new Haskell extensions. These extensions get used, so not having access to modern compilers can quickly lock people out. |
| 2023-03-20 16:53:21 +0100 | <dminuoso> | But yeah, I agree that its not necessarily bad |
| 2023-03-20 16:53:23 +0100 | <dminuoso> | but it is what it is |
| 2023-03-20 16:53:49 +0100 | <dminuoso> | If the compiler receives rapid iteration, then you want an installation model where you can upgrade reasonably |
| 2023-03-20 16:53:59 +0100 | <dminuoso> | but I think the maintainers job is a real problem |
| 2023-03-20 16:54:03 +0100 | <yushyin> | i already had the situation where my haskell project needed an older ghc and my distribution only had newer ghc, not a situation you want to be in |
| 2023-03-20 16:54:07 +0100 | <pkal> | I guess what I want to say is that this is also a barrier in many ways. E.g. I cannot use Haskell at Uni because I don't have enough storage for the entire toolchain. |
| 2023-03-20 16:54:53 +0100 | <dminuoso> | pkal: Okay, that's a fair point. |
| 2023-03-20 16:54:54 +0100 | <pkal> | Also, I really have to be desperate before executing a "curl ... | sh" command |
| 2023-03-20 16:54:55 +0100 | <yushyin> | that problem you will face either way |
| 2023-03-20 16:55:17 +0100 | <dminuoso> | pkal: you can always pipe it into a file and inspect it first. |
| 2023-03-20 16:55:20 +0100 | <dminuoso> | you should, infacft. |
| 2023-03-20 16:55:43 +0100 | <dminuoso> | I guess we just adhere to the standard because there's folks that *want* something they can just copy and paste blindly. Those that are wary enough will inspect it anyway |
| 2023-03-20 16:55:43 +0100 | <eldritchcookie[m> | does anyone have any experience with making desktop applications with haskell? i really want to make an alternative to maptool but i can't justify doing a project which takes too long, how long would just an application displaying maps with tokens and connecting to servers take because if it is reasonably short i will do it |
| 2023-03-20 16:56:10 +0100 | <merijn> | pkal: How little storage is your uni giving you? :O |
| 2023-03-20 16:56:14 +0100 | <pkal> | yushyin: From my perspective, this is totally backwards. A newer compiler shouldn't fail to build something an older compiler could (assuming this was not a bug). |
| 2023-03-20 16:56:21 +0100 | <pkal> | merijn: under 2GB |
| 2023-03-20 16:56:28 +0100 | <dminuoso> | pkal: it doesnt, generally |
| 2023-03-20 16:56:33 +0100 | <mauke> | pkal: that's what the "I don't like curl | sh" link is for |
| 2023-03-20 16:56:39 +0100 | <dminuoso> | pkal: but the real problem is, people write code using features that only newer compiler have. |
| 2023-03-20 16:56:41 +0100 | <merijn> | pkal: oof, can't ask for more? |
| 2023-03-20 16:56:54 +0100 | <dminuoso> | so if you want to work on libX that requires modern langauge extensions, then thats it |
| 2023-03-20 16:56:59 +0100 | <geekosaur> | undergrads couldn't at C-MU |
| 2023-03-20 16:57:06 +0100 | nonames | (~nonames@95.107.230.70) |
| 2023-03-20 16:57:40 +0100 | <geekosaur> | and ECE had to run its own computing plant because Andrew/main computing wouldnt give ugrads enough space to run Verilog |
| 2023-03-20 16:57:54 +0100 | <pkal> | mauke: I saw that, but my issue is not so much the piping but the very premise of running some script that installs stuff |
| 2023-03-20 16:58:08 +0100 | <geekosaur> | sadly, that's what people want these days |
| 2023-03-20 16:58:39 +0100 | <merijn> | pkal: tbh, the GHC bindist binaries still work fine if you're a grumpy curmudgeon like me :p |
| 2023-03-20 16:58:41 +0100 | <pkal> | merijn: You can, but officially we are not allowed to install our own software. I could ask the admins to install the stuff system wide, but that is usually a fuss... |
| 2023-03-20 16:59:00 +0100 | <pkal> | merijn: I am not familiar with those, can you give me a link to find out more? |
| 2023-03-20 16:59:24 +0100 | <yushyin> | pkal: it does all the time, though. it is called backward incompatible changes (in ghc or ghc's base libraries or libraries on hackage that depend on ghc etc.) |
| 2023-03-20 16:59:28 +0100 | <mauke> | technically you're not allowed to visit websites, then |
| 2023-03-20 16:59:36 +0100 | freeside | (~mengwong@103.252.202.85) |
| 2023-03-20 16:59:47 +0100 | <merijn> | pkal: https://www.haskell.org/ghc/download.html those are just pre-built binaries "./configure --prefix=install/dirs" then make install to have it copy everything to the install dir |
| 2023-03-20 17:00:04 +0100 | ozkutuk[m] | (~ozkutuk@2001:470:69fc:105::2:9af8) (Quit: You have been kicked for being idle) |
| 2023-03-20 17:00:10 +0100 | acidjnk | (~acidjnk@p200300d6e715c483659304cc434f2db7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2023-03-20 17:00:16 +0100 | jinsl | (~jinsl@123.120.195.215) |
| 2023-03-20 17:00:32 +0100 | jinsl- | (~jinsl@123.120.195.215) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2023-03-20 17:00:36 +0100 | <pkal> | mauke: it is a rule that has to be stated, but isn't enforced. I mean I installed Emacs from source, and got away with it until now. |
| 2023-03-20 17:00:51 +0100 | <geekosaur> | the "configure" being to inspect your system toolchain and build a settings file for ghc to adapt to it |
| 2023-03-20 17:00:53 +0100 | ozkutuk[m] | (~ozkutuk@2001:470:69fc:105::2:9af8) |
| 2023-03-20 17:01:04 +0100 | <pkal> | merijn: interesting, does this then also work with the haskell language server? |
| 2023-03-20 17:01:18 +0100 | <geekosaur> | nope, that you have to install yourself |
| 2023-03-20 17:01:43 +0100 | <yushyin> | with only 2GB you'll have rather little fun with haskell anyway, /me looks at his >5GB cabal cache |
| 2023-03-20 17:01:43 +0100 | <geekosaur> | part of the point of ghcup is it handles ghc/cabal/stack/hls for you |
| 2023-03-20 17:02:02 +0100 | <merijn> | pkal: no, this is just GHC |
| 2023-03-20 17:02:11 +0100 | <pkal> | geekosaur: Sure, that is what I tried but I constantly kept getting issues with incompatible versions. |
| 2023-03-20 17:02:20 +0100 | <pkal> | I meant to ask do these binaries work with HLS |
| 2023-03-20 17:02:57 +0100 | <geekosaur> | they should, ghcup uses the same binaries |
| 2023-03-20 17:03:31 +0100 | <pkal> | I might just try that out, since the ghcup script doesn't appear to be working... |
| 2023-03-20 17:04:18 +0100 | <geekosaur> | so does stack, for that matter, although there have in the past been odd problems with using HLS with stack-installed ghcs |
| 2023-03-20 17:05:15 +0100 | ozkutuk[m] | (~ozkutuk@2001:470:69fc:105::2:9af8) () |
| 2023-03-20 17:05:29 +0100 | freeside | (~mengwong@103.252.202.85) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 2023-03-20 17:05:47 +0100 | <geekosaur> | as for backward compatibility, ghc itself is generally backward compatible but base often isn't |
| 2023-03-20 17:06:08 +0100 | <geekosaur> | (base being the the core Haskell library package) |
| 2023-03-20 17:06:24 +0100 | <geekosaur> | people keep demanding changes |
| 2023-03-20 17:08:06 +0100 | jinsl | (~jinsl@123.120.195.215) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) |
| 2023-03-20 17:08:41 +0100 | <geekosaur> | and then building with -Werror which imo should be named -Wno-backcompat |
| 2023-03-20 17:08:50 +0100 | jinsl | (~jinsl@2408:8207:255d:b420:211:32ff:fec8:6aea) |
| 2023-03-20 17:09:20 +0100 | <pkal> | well neither of the two are warnings |
| 2023-03-20 17:10:12 +0100 | <geekosaur> | but changes to base can raise warnings in older code |
| 2023-03-20 17:10:48 +0100 | acidjnk | (~acidjnk@p200300d6e715c496659304cc434f2db7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 2023-03-20 17:10:59 +0100 | <geekosaur> | for example, just reported todat: |
| 2023-03-20 17:11:04 +0100 | <geekosaur> | XMonad/Actions/MessageFeedback.hs:50:39: warning: [-Wunused-imports] |
| 2023-03-20 17:11:04 +0100 | <geekosaur> | The import of ‘liftA2’ from module ‘XMonad.Prelude’ is redundant |
| 2023-03-20 17:11:21 +0100 | <geekosaur> | *today |
| 2023-03-20 17:12:01 +0100 | <geekosaur> | because liftA2 moved from Control.Applicative (where XMonad.Prelude was getting it) to Prelude in the base that ships with 9.6.1 |
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| 2023-03-20 18:44:20 +0100 | <dminuoso> | pkal: At any rate, most distributions still have their own GHC packages. |
| 2023-03-20 18:44:28 +0100 | <dminuoso> | If your beef is with ghcup not being part of that, you can still use it. |
| 2023-03-20 18:44:37 +0100 | eggplantade | (~Eggplanta@2600:1700:38c5:d800:a807:948e:ff4f:3b94) |
| 2023-03-20 18:44:40 +0100 | gdr3941 | (~user@2601:483:4800:5740:f998:7c21:2dc2:5367) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2023-03-20 18:44:46 +0100 | <dminuoso> | And if that's not up-to-date, take it up to the maintainer. That problem is really orthogonal to ghcup. |
| 2023-03-20 18:45:20 +0100 | <dminuoso> | Very few projects have an umbrella organisation that can pay for dedicated and official maintainers for packages across various distributions. |
| 2023-03-20 18:45:35 +0100 | mei | (~mei@user/mei) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2023-03-20 18:45:59 +0100 | <dminuoso> | In most cases you're at the mercy of some volunteer whose interests may or may not align with yours, or their available time might not align with your expecentcy of frequent updates. |
| 2023-03-20 18:46:22 +0100 | <dminuoso> | ghcup existing is great because it gives you an alternate way to get a recent GHC. |
| 2023-03-20 18:46:39 +0100 | <dminuoso> | If you're forced to stick to your distribution, then stick to that. If it lacks GHC, then ghcup is certainly not a cause of that. |
| 2023-03-20 18:46:56 +0100 | <dminuoso> | In fact, ghcup is considered supported only on a limited number of distributions |
| 2023-03-20 18:47:37 +0100 | <dminuoso> | It's also much less effort to maintain ghcup than it is to maintain a complex CI matrix and over a dozen different build systems. |
| 2023-03-20 18:48:46 +0100 | <dminuoso> | If somebody paid enough money to {HF, Haskell consultancy of your choosing}, Im sure well maintained and supported packages for their favourite distribution can arise as you want them. Until then I would rather show gratitude to the folks like maerwald that do donate their own time to improve the situation for many people. |
| 2023-03-20 18:49:07 +0100 | eggplantade | (~Eggplanta@2600:1700:38c5:d800:a807:948e:ff4f:3b94) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) |
| 2023-03-20 18:49:21 +0100 | <sm> | I want a copy-pastable command that downloads with curl, views it with a pager, then runs it only if you scrolled to the end and exited normally. Possible ? |
| 2023-03-20 18:50:26 +0100 | gdr3941 | (~user@2601:483:4800:5740:f998:7c21:2dc2:5367) |
| 2023-03-20 18:50:30 +0100 | famubu | (~famubu@user/famubu) |
| 2023-03-20 18:51:03 +0100 | <pkal> | dminuoso: The way I see it ghcup is less of an alternative to get GHC, but the only way if you want stuff to work. I don't mind it existing, some people work that way, I don't like that the fact that it has become necessary. |
| 2023-03-20 18:51:21 +0100 | <pkal> | in other words, ghcup is the symptom |
| 2023-03-20 18:53:26 +0100 | monoidal | (~monoidal@2a01cb0801ce4b004a3097b2a6e32336.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Quit: Client closed) |
| 2023-03-20 18:53:32 +0100 | L29Ah | (~L29Ah@wikipedia/L29Ah) () |
| 2023-03-20 18:53:51 +0100 | tromp | (~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) |
| 2023-03-20 18:54:02 +0100 | mei | (~mei@user/mei) |
| 2023-03-20 18:54:14 +0100 | <geekosaur> | it's not necessary. stack has its own ways of doing things, and you can install bindists |
| 2023-03-20 18:54:34 +0100 | <geekosaur> | ghcup is used by CI jobs but that's hardly applicable to ordinary programmers |
| 2023-03-20 18:55:04 +0100 | <geekosaur> | if you want to use a distro package, you can at the cost that many distros run well behind ghc dev |
| 2023-03-20 18:55:13 +0100 | <geekosaur> | (looking at you, ubuntu) |
| 2023-03-20 18:55:39 +0100 | <geekosaur> | but that was true before ghcup, and indeed ghcup exists in part because of this, not the other way around |
| 2023-03-20 18:55:44 +0100 | eggplantade | (~Eggplanta@2600:1700:38c5:d800:a807:948e:ff4f:3b94) |
| 2023-03-20 18:55:54 +0100 | freeside | (~mengwong@103.252.202.85) |
| 2023-03-20 18:56:02 +0100 | <geekosaur> | there's no way to get debian/ubuntu to speed up releases, so we have to work around them |
| 2023-03-20 18:56:42 +0100 | <geekosaur> | if this bugs you, try arch or some other rolling release distro — notingt that arch has its own haskell packaging issues, but some arch derivatives have fixed them (arco?) |
| 2023-03-20 18:56:43 +0100 | <dminuoso> | pkal: it's by no measure the only way to get things to work. |
| 2023-03-20 18:57:02 +0100 | <dminuoso> | pkal: Across most distributions you can just get GHC and cabal-install from the package manager, and bootstrap yourself from there. |
| 2023-03-20 18:57:35 +0100 | <dminuoso> | There's a few special snowflakes where that is probably a bad idea like Arch Linux, but that's really an Arch Linux problem. |
| 2023-03-20 18:57:49 +0100 | <dminuoso> | Im not quite sure why you presume that ghcup is required. |
| 2023-03-20 19:00:19 +0100 | <dminuoso> | The one thing that is a bit touchy is perhaps Haskell Language Server, but that begins into a long discussion of how difficult is it to provide an environment in which you can have multiple compilers, multiple binaries, and then need a tie in to run particular binaries when particular compiler versions are in the environment. |
| 2023-03-20 19:00:31 +0100 | freeside | (~mengwong@103.252.202.85) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 2023-03-20 19:00:38 +0100 | <dminuoso> | This ultimately is a question about resources/manpower. |
| 2023-03-20 19:01:04 +0100 | <dminuoso> | But its still addressable if your system of choice has hls as a package. |
| 2023-03-20 19:01:05 +0100 | Square | (~Square4@user/square) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2023-03-20 19:01:34 +0100 | <dminuoso> | But in no way is ghcup the root of a problem here. It's not necessary, and its existence doesnt complicate your world if you dont want it. |
| 2023-03-20 19:03:19 +0100 | vpan | (~0@212.117.1.172) (Quit: Leaving.) |
| 2023-03-20 19:03:49 +0100 | <sm> | agreed it's not the root, but could be a crutch if we rely on it too much and forget to push on native packaging |
| 2023-03-20 19:04:11 +0100 | cheater_ | (~Username@user/cheater) |
| 2023-03-20 19:06:15 +0100 | <sm> | and the core language/tooling issues that make that difficult |
| 2023-03-20 19:06:55 +0100 | cheater | (~Username@user/cheater) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 2023-03-20 19:06:55 +0100 | cheater_ | cheater |
| 2023-03-20 19:07:19 +0100 | kenaryn | (~aurele@89-88-44-27.abo.bbox.fr) (Quit: leaving) |
| 2023-03-20 19:08:31 +0100 | <c_wraith> | before ghcup, I did what it does manually. distro packaging has always been useless for haskell dev work |
| 2023-03-20 19:10:17 +0100 | <dminuoso> | c_wraith: I think the core issue here is compiler instability - and by that I mean not just backwards breaking changes, but also unreliable forward stability, which quickly necessitates having multiple compilers simultaneously. |
| 2023-03-20 19:10:44 +0100 | <dminuoso> | Which is fairly hard to do for most package managers that are not nix |
| 2023-03-20 19:11:08 +0100 | <pkal> | dminuoso: right, and that is why I say that ghcup is a symptom |
| 2023-03-20 19:11:23 +0100 | troydm | (~troydm@user/troydm) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 2023-03-20 19:11:45 +0100 | <dminuoso> | Ah I see. |
| 2023-03-20 19:11:48 +0100 | <dminuoso> | Yeah I suppose. |
| 2023-03-20 19:13:36 +0100 | <pkal> | In a wider sense I am sad to see that Haskell is not a really standardised language. |
| 2023-03-20 19:13:56 +0100 | <dminuoso> | It is a standardised language, actually. |
| 2023-03-20 19:13:57 +0100 | <pkal> | I get the feeling there is too much dependence on GHC |
| 2023-03-20 19:14:15 +0100 | <pkal> | dminuoso: yeah, actually, but I doubt that I'll manage to build most software using hugs |
| 2023-03-20 19:14:37 +0100 | <c_wraith> | the dependence on GHC is mostly the result of other implementations being private or unmaintained. |
| 2023-03-20 19:15:01 +0100 | <dminuoso> | Which again is the result of lacking funding. Given how small Haskell is, I think it's great GHC gets funded as good as it does. |
| 2023-03-20 19:15:03 +0100 | <pkal> | I admire the fact that you can write non-trivial software in common lisp, include dependencies and then just switch out the compiler without having to change anything. |
| 2023-03-20 19:15:31 +0100 | <dminuoso> | pkal: Sure. But different from lisp, GHC simultaneously acts as a foundation on language research. |
| 2023-03-20 19:15:34 +0100 | <pkal> | c_wraith: is the question then why the public implementations stopped being maintained? |
| 2023-03-20 19:15:39 +0100 | <dminuoso> | Which overall probably helps more than it hurts. |
| 2023-03-20 19:15:53 +0100 | <dminuoso> | It increases attention and lets researchers explore new ideas |
| 2023-03-20 19:16:10 +0100 | <pkal> | dminuoso: ok, but shouldn't that be possible independently of people who aren't using it for language research |
| 2023-03-20 19:16:24 +0100 | <dminuoso> | pkal: sure in principle it is, because these features are just language extensions. |
| 2023-03-20 19:16:33 +0100 | <c_wraith> | pkal: nah, Haskell users *like* to not be left 50 years behind the curve on language research |
| 2023-03-20 19:16:43 +0100 | <dminuoso> | but at the same time if an exciting language feature is developed, there's people who can utilize it to improve expressivity of their programs |
| 2023-03-20 19:16:48 +0100 | <c_wraith> | pkal: so we rather enjoy it when we can actually use new features |
| 2023-03-20 19:17:48 +0100 | <pkal> | c_wraith: I think that is a mistake, at least depending on what you are doing. |
| 2023-03-20 19:18:54 +0100 | <pkal> | improving the expressivity of their programmes should not come at the cost of increasing the burden of users to build and hack on the software. |
| 2023-03-20 19:19:07 +0100 | <pkal> | IMO at least, I expect people to disagree here ^^ |
| 2023-03-20 19:19:30 +0100 | <dminuoso> | pkal: So I think making features available to the wide audience is what makes the research so interesting. |
| 2023-03-20 19:19:39 +0100 | <dminuoso> | Because it gives you a different method of peer review. |
| 2023-03-20 19:20:07 +0100 | <dminuoso> | It not just lets you just write a paper, but it also demonstrates what helps in libraries |
| 2023-03-20 19:20:18 +0100 | <dminuoso> | An extension that is widely used seems to be clearly something that helps peoplpe. |
| 2023-03-20 19:20:41 +0100 | <pkal> | sure, but the audience in this case have their own audience, that don't gain anything but only notice that their GHC is too old |
| 2023-03-20 19:21:02 +0100 | <dminuoso> | pkal: This at the end boils down to funding really. If you want multiple compilers, you need folks to maintain them. |
| 2023-03-20 19:21:22 +0100 | <dminuoso> | GHC maintaince involves several people who get paid full time to work on various parts of it. |
| 2023-03-20 19:21:29 +0100 | <dminuoso> | If more funding was available, more things could be done. |
| 2023-03-20 19:21:48 +0100 | <pkal> | I am certainly not objecting to language research, we wouldn't have Haskell otherwise. But there is a time for researching languages, and there is a time for writing system software that you want to be used. |
| 2023-03-20 19:21:52 +0100 | tromp | (~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) |
| 2023-03-20 19:22:02 +0100 | <dminuoso> | I think GHC is a good demonstration that these two need not be separate. |
| 2023-03-20 19:22:13 +0100 | <dminuoso> | It's internal construction largely allows them to coexist peacefully. |
| 2023-03-20 19:22:24 +0100 | <pkal> | of course they don't need to be, I am trying to argue that they should ^^ |
| 2023-03-20 19:23:07 +0100 | <pkal> | either way, I cannot but think that complexity is part of the need for funding (and perversely perhaps intentional to legitimate it) |
| 2023-03-20 19:23:31 +0100 | <dminuoso> | Having more compilers require more folks to maintain them. |
| 2023-03-20 19:24:12 +0100 | <dminuoso> | I dont think there exists any major language implementation that doesn't receive significant funding from industry or some umbrella organization. |
| 2023-03-20 19:24:37 +0100 | <dminuoso> | It's mostly just the incredibly popular languages where a bunch of alternative implementations arise, but most tend to die out after a while. |
| 2023-03-20 19:24:43 +0100 | vglfr | (~vglfr@88.155.43.86) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2023-03-20 19:24:52 +0100 | <dminuoso> | But even then, it's just a matter of "if there's millions of users, there's bound to be a few crazy ones with too much time on their spare hands" |
| 2023-03-20 19:25:19 +0100 | <dminuoso> | And the reason for these alternate implementations dying out is pretty much just one reason: |
| 2023-03-20 19:25:24 +0100 | <dminuoso> | Not enough time or not enough money. |
| 2023-03-20 19:26:39 +0100 | <dminuoso> | pkal: The thing is, the only cost I can see of keeping research and industry combined in GHC is a little bit of inconvenience in installation. A small price for novel language features available at your finger tips. |
| 2023-03-20 19:26:54 +0100 | vglfr | (~vglfr@88.155.43.86) |
| 2023-03-20 19:26:58 +0100 | <dminuoso> | A price well worth paying. |
| 2023-03-20 19:27:26 +0100 | slack1256 | (~slack1256@181.42.50.18) |
| 2023-03-20 19:27:43 +0100 | coot | (~coot@2a02:a310:e241:1b00:ec1a:e9df:79ac:66ba) |
| 2023-03-20 19:29:57 +0100 | eggplantade | (~Eggplanta@2600:1700:38c5:d800:a807:948e:ff4f:3b94) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2023-03-20 19:35:05 +0100 | eggplantade | (~Eggplanta@2600:1700:38c5:d800:a807:948e:ff4f:3b94) |
| 2023-03-20 19:36:46 +0100 | <pkal> | I get your point, but I am not that interested in the novel language features. The only reason I am even using ghcup is because I need hls. And I need hls, because from what I see all other systems for language support have been abandoned. After ghc-mod got deprecated, I had a long phase were I couldn't be bothered to use Haskell at all (sadly). |
| 2023-03-20 19:38:36 +0100 | <dminuoso> | pkal: ghcid works just fine. |
| 2023-03-20 19:38:52 +0100 | <dminuoso> | it's extremely minimalistic and is near guaranteed to work for years to come. |
| 2023-03-20 19:40:00 +0100 | <geekosaur> | alos ghc-mod is not so much abandoned as incorporated |
| 2023-03-20 19:40:32 +0100 | <geekosaur> | there were like 3 projects all doing the same thing, they joined forces |
| 2023-03-20 19:40:52 +0100 | <pkal> | and broke the setup I had |
| 2023-03-20 19:41:08 +0100 | <pkal> | which I, visibly, resent |
| 2023-03-20 19:41:35 +0100 | <pkal> | dminuoso: ghcid seems interesting, but it doesn't appear to provide anything more than what haskell-mode already has |
| 2023-03-20 19:42:07 +0100 | <dminuoso> | what do you mean?> |
| 2023-03-20 19:42:26 +0100 | <dminuoso> | ghcid can be trivially tied into your editor for instant compilation and targeted error reporting (say flycheck) |
| 2023-03-20 19:42:44 +0100 | waleee | (~waleee@2001:9b0:21c:4000:5bf9:6515:c030:57b7) |
| 2023-03-20 19:42:45 +0100 | <dminuoso> | with some minor extra tie in you even get type reporting |
| 2023-03-20 19:43:27 +0100 | <pkal> | dminuoso: I took a look at the Emacs integration and didn't see anything that would provide completion. |
| 2023-03-20 19:43:54 +0100 | <dminuoso> | Sure, ctags/etags is enough for that. |
| 2023-03-20 19:44:02 +0100 | <dminuoso> | Which haskell-mode already generates. |
| 2023-03-20 19:44:20 +0100 | <dminuoso> | pkal: What exactly do you want from HLS that haskell-mode does not have, then? |
| 2023-03-20 19:46:37 +0100 | famubu | (~famubu@user/famubu) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) |
| 2023-03-20 19:47:44 +0100 | <pkal> | In my experience, at least for Haskell, TAGS based completion/jump-to-definition was not robust enough and hat too many false positives or negatives. |
| 2023-03-20 19:48:38 +0100 | <pkal> | Also, I recall having issues with Flymake diagnostics when a project uses Cabal/Stack. |
| 2023-03-20 19:50:15 +0100 | <pkal> | Also, I don't think that TAGS take types into account when completing. |
| 2023-03-20 19:51:47 +0100 | <dminuoso> | Yup, it does not. |
| 2023-03-20 19:51:57 +0100 | <dminuoso> | Yes, ghcid is not HLS |
| 2023-03-20 19:52:05 +0100 | <dminuoso> | But it gives you quick feedback about errors while you write code |
| 2023-03-20 19:52:32 +0100 | freeside | (~mengwong@103.252.202.85) |
| 2023-03-20 19:53:53 +0100 | <geekosaur> | mm, actually there is a sense in which ghcup is forced on people: the haskell plugin for vscode uses it to manage ghc/hls/stack/cabal |
| 2023-03-20 19:54:44 +0100 | <geekosaur> | (and has very fixed ideas of how to use it, which means I have a dummy ~/.cabal because I switched to XDG mode but vscode uses the wrong cabal at first) |
| 2023-03-20 19:56:43 +0100 | <sm> | true, except does it not give you a choice once the first time ? |
| 2023-03-20 19:57:23 +0100 | freeside | (~mengwong@103.252.202.85) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2023-03-20 19:58:41 +0100 | <geekosaur> | mm, iirc that was more a "do you want me to work or not?" |
| 2023-03-20 19:58:42 +0100 | eggplantade | (~Eggplanta@2600:1700:38c5:d800:a807:948e:ff4f:3b94) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2023-03-20 20:00:17 +0100 | eggplantade | (~Eggplanta@2600:1700:38c5:d800:a807:948e:ff4f:3b94) |
| 2023-03-20 20:00:56 +0100 | ddellaco1 | (~ddellacos@146.70.165.10) (Quit: WeeChat 3.8) |
| 2023-03-20 20:02:08 +0100 | ddellacosta | (~ddellacos@146.70.165.10) |
| 2023-03-20 20:05:38 +0100 | eggplantade | (~Eggplanta@2600:1700:38c5:d800:a807:948e:ff4f:3b94) (Remote host closed the connection) |
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| 2023-03-20 20:16:36 +0100 | gurkenglas | (~gurkengla@dynamic-002-247-245-038.2.247.pool.telefonica.de) |
| 2023-03-20 20:16:42 +0100 | coot | (~coot@2a02:a310:e241:1b00:ec1a:e9df:79ac:66ba) (Quit: coot) |
| 2023-03-20 20:22:12 +0100 | vglfr | (~vglfr@88.155.43.86) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
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| 2023-03-20 20:30:15 +0100 | rburkholder | (~blurb@96.45.2.121) |
| 2023-03-20 20:30:29 +0100 | gmg | (~user@user/gehmehgeh) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
| 2023-03-20 20:31:45 +0100 | gmg | (~user@user/gehmehgeh) |
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| 2023-03-20 20:38:19 +0100 | slack1256 | (~slack1256@181.42.50.18) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) |
| 2023-03-20 20:50:05 +0100 | Techcable | (~Techcable@user/Techcable) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2023-03-20 20:50:14 +0100 | Techcable | (~Techcable@user/Techcable) |
| 2023-03-20 20:50:35 +0100 | szkl | (uid110435@id-110435.uxbridge.irccloud.com) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) |
| 2023-03-20 20:55:43 +0100 | kenaryn | (~aurele@89-88-44-27.abo.bbox.fr) |
| 2023-03-20 21:01:53 +0100 | <dminuoso> | % type Middleware = forall m. App m -> App m |
| 2023-03-20 21:01:53 +0100 | <yahb2> | <no output> |
| 2023-03-20 21:02:01 +0100 | <dminuoso> | % foo = Middleware; foo = undefined |
| 2023-03-20 21:02:01 +0100 | <yahb2> | <interactive>:10:19: error: ; Multiple declarations of ‘foo’ ; Declared at: <interactive>:10:1 ; <interactive>:10:19 |
| 2023-03-20 21:02:06 +0100 | <dminuoso> | % foo :: Middleware; foo = undefined |
| 2023-03-20 21:02:06 +0100 | <yahb2> | <no output> |
| 2023-03-20 21:02:12 +0100 | <dminuoso> | What. |
| 2023-03-20 21:02:17 +0100 | <dminuoso> | Oh |
| 2023-03-20 21:02:20 +0100 | <dminuoso> | % foo :: IO Middleware; foo = undefined |
| 2023-03-20 21:02:20 +0100 | <yahb2> | <interactive>:14:8: error: ; • Illegal polymorphic type: forall m. App m -> App m ; Perhaps you intended to use ImpredicativeTypes ; • In the expansion of type synonym ‘Middleware’ ; ... |
| 2023-03-20 21:02:43 +0100 | <dminuoso> | Im quite annoyed by all of this. |
| 2023-03-20 21:03:50 +0100 | <EvanR> | how I learned to stop worry and love impredicative types? |
| 2023-03-20 21:03:54 +0100 | <EvanR> | worrying* |
| 2023-03-20 21:04:22 +0100 | <dminuoso> | See Im traumatized by this extension. |
| 2023-03-20 21:04:24 +0100 | <int-e> | newtype wrappers work |
| 2023-03-20 21:04:26 +0100 | <dminuoso> | Too afraid to flip it on. |
| 2023-03-20 21:05:13 +0100 | <int-e> | And I suspect the extra wrapping/unwrapping is less painful than fighting the shortcomings of that extension. |
| 2023-03-20 21:05:29 +0100 | <monochrom> | I got annoyed a bit too. Then I recalled that the paper and the GHC user's guide point out that eta reduction confuses quicklook, suitable eta expansion solves it. |
| 2023-03-20 21:05:56 +0100 | gdr3941 | (~user@2601:483:4800:5740:bd6c:6a59:14bf:bde4) |
| 2023-03-20 21:06:06 +0100 | eggplantade | (~Eggplanta@2600:1700:38c5:d800:a807:948e:ff4f:3b94) |
| 2023-03-20 21:06:29 +0100 | <dminuoso> | monochrom: Do you know how many bindings I have to refactor to eta-expand that synonym?! |
| 2023-03-20 21:07:00 +0100 | <monochrom> | No, I mean eta-expanding value definitions. |
| 2023-03-20 21:07:03 +0100 | <dminuoso> | Ah. |
| 2023-03-20 21:07:26 +0100 | <monochrom> | E.g., when "f = ..." fails, usually "f x = ..." helps. |
| 2023-03-20 21:07:33 +0100 | <dminuoso> | I guess this is not lacking eta expansion though. |
| 2023-03-20 21:07:44 +0100 | <dminuoso> | It really is the problem that the type synonym forces the forall inside IO |
| 2023-03-20 21:08:01 +0100 | <monochrom> | Oh, IO (forall m ...) really needs impredicative types :) |
| 2023-03-20 21:08:06 +0100 | <dminuoso> | There's not really a way to specify a "floaty" (forced rank 1) quantification |
| 2023-03-20 21:08:09 +0100 | <dminuoso> | Which is what I really want |
| 2023-03-20 21:08:15 +0100 | <monochrom> | Either that or use newtype wrapping. |
| 2023-03-20 21:09:12 +0100 | <c_wraith> | yeah, I'm annoyed at people writing bad code and then using it to justify -XDeepSubsumption |
| 2023-03-20 21:09:26 +0100 | <monochrom> | But then I guess refactoring your bindings to add wrapping+unwrapping is a headache. |
| 2023-03-20 21:09:46 +0100 | <dminuoso> | Well it all started out by refactoring my radius library in the style of warp |
| 2023-03-20 21:09:48 +0100 | <dminuoso> | type RadApp m = Client -> Packet -> (Maybe Packet -> m ResponseReceived) -> m ResponseReceived |
| 2023-03-20 21:10:02 +0100 | <dminuoso> | That `m` used to be IO before until it occured to me that I wanted monad-logger.. |
| 2023-03-20 21:10:23 +0100 | eggplantade | (~Eggplanta@2600:1700:38c5:d800:a807:948e:ff4f:3b94) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) |
| 2023-03-20 21:11:13 +0100 | <monochrom> | I am not ready to say that highly eta-reduced code is bad code. I mean it has been idiomatic Haskell for a long time. You have to highly believe in System F instead to say that eta reduction is undesirable. |
| 2023-03-20 21:11:46 +0100 | gnalzo | (~gnalzo@2a01:e0a:498:fd50:fcc6:bb5d:489a:ce8c) |
| 2023-03-20 21:12:07 +0100 | <dminuoso> | monochrom: I found the arguments of the subtle change in strictness without deep subsumption to be quite weak. |
| 2023-03-20 21:12:19 +0100 | <dminuoso> | It seemed like an idealistic argument that defies pragmaticism. |
| 2023-03-20 21:12:47 +0100 | <dminuoso> | The other argument about simplified implementation was turned ad absurdum when they added deep subsumption back again |
| 2023-03-20 21:13:20 +0100 | <dminuoso> | So now we're left with something that mostly just inconveniences users during migration and writing code, to avoid some special edge that that probably never has and never will cause a bug *shrugs* |
| 2023-03-20 21:13:51 +0100 | <c_wraith> | It would have been a lot better if people just treated type aliases with a forall in them as buggy in the first place |
| 2023-03-20 21:14:01 +0100 | <c_wraith> | deep subsumption was always obviously wrong |
| 2023-03-20 21:14:25 +0100 | <monochrom> | Oh, then that covers all of lens. >:) |
| 2023-03-20 21:14:36 +0100 | <c_wraith> | nah, the optic type doesn't have a forall |
| 2023-03-20 21:14:37 +0100 | <dminuoso> | Im fine with that! Im an optics subscriber. |
| 2023-03-20 21:14:38 +0100 | <c_wraith> | it's fine |
| 2023-03-20 21:15:09 +0100 | <monochrom> | Yeah I just means the lens library, not other offerings of lenses in general. |
| 2023-03-20 21:15:21 +0100 | <c_wraith> | I also meant the lens library |
| 2023-03-20 21:15:57 +0100 | <c_wraith> | You can use it without ever putting a forall inside a type alias |
| 2023-03-20 21:16:49 +0100 | <dminuoso> | type Optic p f s t a b = p a (f b) -> p s (f t) |
| 2023-03-20 21:17:01 +0100 | <dminuoso> | How are constraints communicated here? |
| 2023-03-20 21:17:16 +0100 | <c_wraith> | they aren't. You add them depending on your needs |
| 2023-03-20 21:17:21 +0100 | kenaryn | (~aurele@89-88-44-27.abo.bbox.fr) (Quit: leaving) |
| 2023-03-20 21:17:23 +0100 | <c_wraith> | which you can conveniently do, because there's no forall |
| 2023-03-20 21:17:36 +0100 | <c_wraith> | This is the advantage of an open representation |
| 2023-03-20 21:18:36 +0100 | <dminuoso> | type LensLike f s t a b = Optic (->) f s t a b |
| 2023-03-20 21:18:38 +0100 | <dminuoso> | type Lens s t a b = forall f. Functor f => LensLike f s t a b |
| 2023-03-20 21:18:40 +0100 | <dminuoso> | I see |
| 2023-03-20 21:19:02 +0100 | <dminuoso> | Either way, not a big fan of this because this encoding pushes diagnostics in the wrong way. |
| 2023-03-20 21:19:12 +0100 | <dminuoso> | optics keeps them constrained and legible |
| 2023-03-20 21:19:34 +0100 | <c_wraith> | and keep you from doing anything useful |
| 2023-03-20 21:19:47 +0100 | <c_wraith> | all you can do with optics is the boring stuff |
| 2023-03-20 21:19:48 +0100 | <dminuoso> | Not sure why you say that *shrugs* |
| 2023-03-20 21:20:12 +0100 | <dminuoso> | I have yet to miss something from lens. |
| 2023-03-20 21:20:14 +0100 | <c_wraith> | There's still no holesOf |
| 2023-03-20 21:20:24 +0100 | <c_wraith> | there's no support for witherable structures |
| 2023-03-20 21:20:50 +0100 | <dminuoso> | None of them fit our use cases. |
| 2023-03-20 21:21:04 +0100 | <c_wraith> | Or you just haven't realized that they do |
| 2023-03-20 21:21:04 +0100 | <dminuoso> | And to be fair, witherable isnt even supported in pure lens itself. |
| 2023-03-20 21:21:27 +0100 | <c_wraith> | Nah, but adding support was trivial (so long as you ignore the bad ideas in that old blog post..) |
| 2023-03-20 21:21:37 +0100 | <dminuoso> | You're referring to this right? https://github.com/chowells79/lens-witherable |
| 2023-03-20 21:21:42 +0100 | <c_wraith> | yep |
| 2023-03-20 21:21:55 +0100 | <dminuoso> | That name looks familiar, is that you? |
| 2023-03-20 21:21:59 +0100 | <c_wraith> | yep |
| 2023-03-20 21:22:51 +0100 | <dminuoso> | Either way, maybe optics is missing some things. But the things I mostly care about is just deep nested indexed folds |
| 2023-03-20 21:23:25 +0100 | <c_wraith> | The witherable stuff is niche. but really, I'm shocked you've never wanted holesOf. |
| 2023-03-20 21:24:25 +0100 | <c_wraith> | Like, it seems incredibly common to want to do something with a data structure modified at each of several locations independently. |
| 2023-03-20 21:24:42 +0100 | <dminuoso> | Heh I do. However |
| 2023-03-20 21:24:50 +0100 | <dminuoso> | In my case these are not spread over multiple fields in a traversal |
| 2023-03-20 21:24:59 +0100 | <dminuoso> | but in our use cases they are instead spread over choices in a union type instead. |
| 2023-03-20 21:25:12 +0100 | <dminuoso> | And for that there's really poor support, you have to unsafely construct lenses |
| 2023-03-20 21:25:33 +0100 | trev | (~trev@user/trev) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2023-03-20 21:26:03 +0100 | <dminuoso> | So we have things like: commonInterface = unsafeSingular $ (_Service1Q % commonInterface) `failingT` (_ServiceL3 % commonInterface) |
| 2023-03-20 21:26:26 +0100 | freeside | (~mengwong@103.252.202.85) |
| 2023-03-20 21:26:29 +0100 | <dminuoso> | Which is sort of the dual idea of holesOf |
| 2023-03-20 21:27:05 +0100 | <dminuoso> | c_wraith: But either way, editing itself is something I rarely need. |
| 2023-03-20 21:27:38 +0100 | <dminuoso> | Which is why in most cases I end up just adjoining traversals instead |
| 2023-03-20 21:30:48 +0100 | freeside | (~mengwong@103.252.202.85) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
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| 2023-03-20 23:07:09 +0100 | L29Ah | (~L29Ah@wikipedia/L29Ah) |
| 2023-03-20 23:08:49 +0100 | biberu | (~biberu@user/biberu) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2023-03-20 23:09:21 +0100 | jwiegley | (~jwiegley@76-234-69-149.lightspeed.frokca.sbcglobal.net) (ERC 5.4 (IRC client for GNU Emacs 28.2)) |
| 2023-03-20 23:09:32 +0100 | Square2 | Square |
| 2023-03-20 23:12:33 +0100 | biberu | (~biberu@user/biberu) |
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| 2023-03-20 23:33:38 +0100 | <juri_> | bgamari: i don't mean this offensively, and i am obviously a biased participant.. but why does language-openscad exist, when we have ImplicitCAD? |
| 2023-03-20 23:37:28 +0100 | L29Ah | (~L29Ah@wikipedia/L29Ah) () |
| 2023-03-20 23:37:52 +0100 | mjs2600 | (~mjs2600@c-24-91-3-49.hsd1.vt.comcast.net) (Quit: ZNC 1.8.2 - https://znc.in) |
| 2023-03-20 23:40:55 +0100 | mjs2600 | (~mjs2600@c-24-91-3-49.hsd1.vt.comcast.net) |
| 2023-03-20 23:41:19 +0100 | <[exa]> | juri_: because it's simpler? |
| 2023-03-20 23:41:37 +0100 | cassiopea | (~cassiopea@user/cassiopea) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2023-03-20 23:42:28 +0100 | michalz | (~michalz@185.246.207.221) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2023-03-20 23:46:25 +0100 | slack1256 | (~slack1256@181.42.50.18) |
| 2023-03-20 23:48:02 +0100 | bitdex | (~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex) |
| 2023-03-20 23:51:22 +0100 | <juri_> | fair enough. just wondering if i'm doing a bad job 'breaking up' my big projects into reusable pieces. |
| 2023-03-20 23:53:28 +0100 | wroathe | (~wroathe@207-153-38-140.fttp.usinternet.com) |
| 2023-03-20 23:53:28 +0100 | wroathe | (~wroathe@207-153-38-140.fttp.usinternet.com) (Changing host) |
| 2023-03-20 23:53:28 +0100 | wroathe | (~wroathe@user/wroathe) |