IRCBrowse

2023/03/13

2023-03-13 00:03:39 +0000azimut(~azimut@gateway/tor-sasl/azimut) (Remote host closed the connection)
2023-03-13 00:03:39 +0000tusko(~yeurt@user/tusko) (Write error: Connection reset by peer)
2023-03-13 00:04:12 +0000azimut(~azimut@gateway/tor-sasl/azimut)
2023-03-13 00:04:19 +0000tusko(~yeurt@user/tusko)
2023-03-13 00:05:50 +0000machinedgod(~machinedg@d198-53-218-113.abhsia.telus.net) (Quit: Lost terminal)
2023-03-13 00:06:12 +0000machinedgod(~machinedg@d198-53-218-113.abhsia.telus.net)
2023-03-13 00:13:27 +0000jmorris(uid537181@id-537181.uxbridge.irccloud.com)
2023-03-13 00:15:37 +0000 <c_wraith> woo, I broke GHC 9.6.1!
2023-03-13 00:20:41 +0000 <c_wraith> aww, someone reported it during the RC
2023-03-13 00:21:40 +0000merijn(~merijn@86-86-29-250.fixed.kpn.net)
2023-03-13 00:21:53 +0000 <hpc> it's like discovering someone else already popped all the bubble wrap :D
2023-03-13 00:24:48 +0000wolfshappen(~waff@195.201.106.7)
2023-03-13 00:25:15 +0000wolfshappen(~waff@195.201.106.7) (Client Quit)
2023-03-13 00:43:44 +0000pavonia_(~user@user/siracusa)
2023-03-13 00:44:18 +0000dextaa(~DV@user/dextaa) (Quit: Ping timeout (120 seconds))
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2023-03-13 00:48:12 +0000opticblast(~Thunderbi@172.58.83.235) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2023-03-13 00:54:26 +0000 <monochrom> or discovering "fixed in HEAD" >:)
2023-03-13 00:55:33 +0000dmj`_dmj`
2023-03-13 00:55:49 +0000merijn(~merijn@86-86-29-250.fixed.kpn.net) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2023-03-13 00:56:51 +0000freeside(~mengwong@103.252.202.85)
2023-03-13 00:57:19 +0000 <maerwald[m]> Amongst a 100 breaking changes xD
2023-03-13 00:58:00 +0000mauke_(~mauke@user/mauke)
2023-03-13 00:58:07 +0000 <sm> am rooting for you c_wraith.. you can do it !
2023-03-13 00:59:55 +0000mauke(~mauke@user/mauke) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2023-03-13 00:59:55 +0000mauke_mauke
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2023-03-13 01:20:04 +0000hpc(~juzz@ip98-169-35-163.dc.dc.cox.net) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2023-03-13 01:21:47 +0000hpc(~juzz@ip98-169-35-163.dc.dc.cox.net)
2023-03-13 01:22:56 +0000 <juri_> c_wraith: bravo!
2023-03-13 01:25:05 +0000zmt00(~zmt00@user/zmt00)
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2023-03-13 01:34:40 +0000freeside(~mengwong@103.252.202.85)
2023-03-13 01:38:51 +0000random-jellyfish(~random-je@user/random-jellyfish) (Quit: Client closed)
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2023-03-13 02:20:43 +0000emmanuelux_(~emmanuelu@user/emmanuelux) (Quit: au revoir)
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2023-03-13 03:19:43 +0000[itchyjunk](~itchyjunk@user/itchyjunk/x-7353470) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2023-03-13 03:42:45 +0000kimjetwav(~user@2607:fea8:235e:b600:86cc:d332:aa2a:c88a) (ERC 5.4.1 (IRC client for GNU Emacs 29.0.60))
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2023-03-13 03:58:45 +0000FinnElija(~finn_elij@user/finn-elija/x-0085643) (Killed (NickServ (Forcing logout FinnElija -> finn_elija)))
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2023-03-13 10:07:40 +0000 <shryke> Hi guys! I've got a question about hsc2hs on windows - it fails with "error: ld.lld: error: duplicate symbol: main"
2023-03-13 10:07:50 +0000 <shryke> >>> defined at app\Bind_hsc_make.o
2023-03-13 10:07:52 +0000 <shryke> >>> defined at $HOME\AppData\Local\Temp\ghc19200_0\ghc_2.o
2023-03-13 10:08:51 +0000 <shryke> Is there a specific CLI option that I missed, or that's expected on windows? I'm launching via 'stack exec -- hsc2hs.exe -v --cc=ghc.exe -k app\Bind.hsc'
2023-03-13 10:10:45 +0000robobub(uid248673@id-248673.uxbridge.irccloud.com) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2023-03-13 10:11:34 +0000 <mauke> why -cc=ghc.exe?
2023-03-13 10:11:44 +0000 <merijn> heh
2023-03-13 10:13:09 +0000 <shryke> mauke: without --cc I get "Can't find cc"
2023-03-13 10:13:19 +0000 <shryke> should I put another compiler?
2023-03-13 10:13:31 +0000 <merijn> shryke: --cc is for specifying the C compiler, I'm pretty sure
2023-03-13 10:13:43 +0000 <merijn> GHC is not a C compiler :p
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2023-03-13 10:26:24 +0000beteigeuze(~Thunderbi@bl14-81-220.dsl.telepac.pt)
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2023-03-13 10:29:50 +0000 <kuribas> a c-- compiler?
2023-03-13 10:29:50 +0000L29Ah(~L29Ah@wikipedia/L29Ah) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2023-03-13 10:35:12 +0000 <shryke> well, it appears I kinda shot my self in the foot. I misunderstood the https://github.com/haskell/hsc2hs/issues/66
2023-03-13 10:35:59 +0000 <shryke> I provided a path to clang from ghcup and it worked like a charm. Sorry for the noise=)
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2023-03-13 11:02:09 +0000 <mauke> shryke: out of interest, what does 'ghc --info' report for "C compiler command"?
2023-03-13 11:04:22 +0000xff0x(~xff0x@ai098135.d.east.v6connect.net)
2023-03-13 11:07:14 +0000smallville7123_(~Android@1.146.54.170)
2023-03-13 11:09:27 +0000 <kuribas> if you use stream fusion with LLVM, can the compiler do automatic SIMD vectorisation?
2023-03-13 11:09:55 +0000 <smallville7123_> can i interop with C from haskell?
2023-03-13 11:10:04 +0000 <kuribas> smallville7123_: sure, using the FFI.
2023-03-13 11:10:26 +0000 <merijn> smallville7123_: easily
2023-03-13 11:10:48 +0000 <kuribas> for some interpretation of easily
2023-03-13 11:10:57 +0000vpan(~0@212.117.1.172)
2023-03-13 11:10:59 +0000 <smallville7123_> can C interop with haskell?
2023-03-13 11:11:09 +0000 <kuribas> smallville7123_: sure, using the FFI
2023-03-13 11:11:20 +0000 <merijn> smallville7123_: Chapter 8 (FFI) of the Haskell Report and some section of the GHC user's guide (I forget which) should tell you all you'd ever want/need to know
2023-03-13 11:11:35 +0000 <merijn> kuribas: The Haskell FFI is *super* easy compared to those of many other languages
2023-03-13 11:11:42 +0000freeside(~mengwong@103.252.202.85)
2023-03-13 11:11:50 +0000 <smallville7123_> alright
2023-03-13 11:11:58 +0000 <kuribas> merijn: clojure java interop is much easier
2023-03-13 11:12:14 +0000 <merijn> kuribas: That's not C, though :p You should try accessing C from Python...
2023-03-13 11:12:43 +0000 <merijn> smallville7123_: To call Haskell from C you need to do a bit of bookkeeping (initialising the runtime, etc.) but overall it's pretty straightforward
2023-03-13 11:12:47 +0000 <kuribas> I did some scheme C interop, that was about the same as haskell.
2023-03-13 11:13:03 +0000 <kuribas> Taking care of memory finalization.
2023-03-13 11:13:04 +0000 <smallville7123_> alright
2023-03-13 11:13:23 +0000 <smallville7123_> does haskell support reflection?
2023-03-13 11:13:36 +0000 <merijn> smallville7123_: I even have a minimal gist for calling Haskell from C: https://gist.github.com/merijn/4a0fee2b3a5ef3476aa4
2023-03-13 11:14:17 +0000 <merijn> Mind you, I haven't tested that code since I wrote it 9 years ago, so...ymmv :p
2023-03-13 11:14:55 +0000 <shryke> mauke: ("C compiler command","E:\\nosave\\Projects\\Haskell\\ghcup\\ghcup\\ghc\\9.4.4\\lib\\../mingw/bin/clang.exe")
2023-03-13 11:15:05 +0000 <jackdk> smallville7123_: simple example: https://git.sr.ht/~jack/libtelnet-haskell (GPLv3, in case that bothers you)
2023-03-13 11:15:19 +0000 <kuribas> smallville7123_: short answer, no. Longer answer, depends on you definition of reflection. With template haskell or generics you can do meta programming.
2023-03-13 11:15:32 +0000 <smallville7123_> as im leaning strongly towards Java but its reflection is a pain in the butt cus generics
2023-03-13 11:15:55 +0000 <kuribas> what is java reflection?
2023-03-13 11:16:39 +0000 <smallville7123_> like, String.class.getMethod("toString").getReturnType()
2023-03-13 11:17:40 +0000 <kuribas> in haskell, you'll have more luck by using abstractions (Applicatives) rather than reflection.
2023-03-13 11:17:43 +0000 <merijn> :O
2023-03-13 11:17:56 +0000 <kuribas> Depending on the problem you solve.
2023-03-13 11:18:00 +0000 <merijn> new cabal has support for self-contained project haddocks!
2023-03-13 11:18:03 +0000 <merijn> Killer feature!
2023-03-13 11:18:10 +0000 <smallville7123_> what would those be?
2023-03-13 11:18:31 +0000 <kuribas> smallville7123_: applicative?
2023-03-13 11:18:58 +0000 <smallville7123_> yes
2023-03-13 11:20:28 +0000 <kuribas> smallville7123_: for example, in my database library I can write "select (Person <*> intSel "person.age" <> stringSel "person.name") query"
2023-03-13 11:21:10 +0000acidjnk(~acidjnk@p200300d6e715c4935cdeee750ed3a427.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2023-03-13 11:21:17 +0000 <kuribas> smallville7123_: then, when performing the query, it will create a "Person" value, using the age field as integer, and the name field as string.
2023-03-13 11:22:24 +0000waleee(~waleee@2001:9b0:21c:4000:5bf9:6515:c030:57b7)
2023-03-13 11:22:31 +0000 <kuribas> sorry, got the operators mixed up: "select (Person <$> intSel "person.age" <*> stringSel "person.name") query"
2023-03-13 11:22:31 +0000 <smallville7123_> hmm
2023-03-13 11:23:11 +0000 <kuribas> smallville7123_: So the intSel knows that it will give back an integer, and the stringSel knows that is will give back a string.
2023-03-13 11:23:18 +0000 <kuribas> smallville7123_: and no introspection is needed!
2023-03-13 11:23:36 +0000 <smallville7123_> what if the return type is unknown?
2023-03-13 11:24:08 +0000 <kuribas> smallville7123_: I have a "values" constructor that gives back a list of Value, which can be any SQL object.
2023-03-13 11:24:25 +0000 <kuribas> "select values query"
2023-03-13 11:24:31 +0000 <kuribas> But normally you want to avoid that.
2023-03-13 11:24:53 +0000 <kuribas> SQL queries are normally well typed.
2023-03-13 11:26:26 +0000 <kuribas> smallville7123_: well, it's called "rawValues": https://hackage.haskell.org/package/hasqlator-mysql-0.1.0/docs/Database-MySQL-Hasqlator.html#v:raw…
2023-03-13 11:26:52 +0000 <smallville7123_> for example, given class X, find all fields, then find all methods that match a setter/getter style, then filter all by specific types the user wants to deal with
2023-03-13 11:29:05 +0000 <kuribas> haskell doesn't have classes.
2023-03-13 11:29:38 +0000 <kuribas> But if I wanted an inventory, I'd create an abstraction using type classes, that can register some function.
2023-03-13 11:29:52 +0000sigfried(~rsx@92.62.57.242)
2023-03-13 11:30:16 +0000alex`(~user@155.red-83-36-47.dynamicip.rima-tde.net)
2023-03-13 11:30:56 +0000 <kuribas> like: registry = [mkFun "foobar" "raises the foo bar" foobar; mkFun ...]
2023-03-13 11:31:59 +0000 <smallville7123_> alright
2023-03-13 11:32:12 +0000 <kuribas> Or alternatively, create an applicative over the foobar function, that I can register.
2023-03-13 11:32:16 +0000freeside(~mengwong@103.252.202.85) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2023-03-13 11:32:20 +0000freeside_(~mengwong@103.252.202.85)
2023-03-13 11:32:29 +0000 <kuribas> To keep the information together.
2023-03-13 11:32:29 +0000bramhaag(~bramhaag@134.195.121.39) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2023-03-13 11:33:02 +0000 <kuribas> if that fails, you can always go to template haskell, but IMO proper haskell abstractions are really undervalued.
2023-03-13 11:33:24 +0000 <smallville7123_> sounds confusing
2023-03-13 11:34:10 +0000 <kuribas> smallville7123_: because you are approaching haskell with a Java mindset.
2023-03-13 11:34:42 +0000 <kuribas> You probably want to play around with haskell first, and understand the haskell mindset.
2023-03-13 11:34:54 +0000 <kuribas> Which is quite different from OO programming.
2023-03-13 11:36:21 +0000lxi(~quassel@2a02:2f08:4d1c:400:9cbc:4142:c972:4f9c) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2023-03-13 11:36:42 +0000 <smallville7123_> ok
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2023-03-13 12:17:51 +0000 <mastarija> So, I have a type using variants that goes something like this `X (V [A,B,C])`. Now, I also have a "container" type that is a product of `X (V [A,B,C])`, `X (V [C,D)`.
2023-03-13 12:18:32 +0000 <mastarija> I'd like to write a lens to traverse over all items of type `X (V [*])`
2023-03-13 12:19:08 +0000cheater(~Username@user/cheater) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2023-03-13 12:19:17 +0000 <mastarija> I was thinking of writing a traversal like this `Traversal Container (X [A,B,C,D])`
2023-03-13 12:19:19 +0000alex`(~user@155.red-83-36-47.dynamicip.rima-tde.net) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2023-03-13 12:19:46 +0000 <mastarija> Where `X` has a variant with a list of all possible variant values combined into one.
2023-03-13 12:20:21 +0000razetime(~Thunderbi@117.254.34.182) (Remote host closed the connection)
2023-03-13 12:20:23 +0000 <mastarija> That's OK, when I'm going from subset into a superset, but conversion is not really valid the other way.
2023-03-13 12:21:10 +0000 <JensPetersen[m]> does prof affect ABI hashes?
2023-03-13 12:21:15 +0000 <mastarija> I'm not sure if it's possible to find an elegant solution here.
2023-03-13 12:21:48 +0000 <mastarija> JensPetersen[m]: what do you mean?
2023-03-13 12:22:13 +0000 <JensPetersen[m]> I mean when building with Cabal...
2023-03-13 12:22:21 +0000 <JensPetersen[m]> I think no, but wanted to check (tests certainly do)
2023-03-13 12:22:37 +0000 <JensPetersen[m]> ie building with prof
2023-03-13 12:22:53 +0000 <JensPetersen[m]> profiling
2023-03-13 12:23:13 +0000 <mastarija> Yes, just parsed what you mean xD
2023-03-13 12:24:14 +0000JensPetersen[m]sometimes really wonders why he still builds prof for all Fedora Haskell packages, but anyway...
2023-03-13 12:24:19 +0000 <mastarija> Shouldn't that affect it? Because profiler adds stuff to the end result, no?
2023-03-13 12:24:35 +0000cheater(~Username@user/cheater)
2023-03-13 12:25:13 +0000 <JensPetersen[m]> Maybe, quite possible - cos I want to test if a patch to pandoc affects the ABI hashes, but thought I would turn off prof to save time - better not I guess...
2023-03-13 12:26:00 +0000MajorBiscuit(~MajorBisc@145.94.168.115)
2023-03-13 12:26:06 +0000 <JensPetersen[m]> Thanks
2023-03-13 12:26:18 +0000 <mastarija> Don't thank me. I don't know. :)
2023-03-13 12:26:33 +0000 <mastarija> It's just a guess
2023-03-13 12:26:42 +0000 <JensPetersen[m]> haha - well I kind of makes sense - actually more sense than tests...
2023-03-13 12:26:48 +0000 <JensPetersen[m]> s/I/it/
2023-03-13 12:28:11 +0000 <JensPetersen[m]> maybe ;)
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2023-03-13 13:06:03 +0000[itchyjunk](~itchyjunk@user/itchyjunk/x-7353470)
2023-03-13 13:08:41 +0000 <mastarija> So, why does this signature work:
2023-03-13 13:08:56 +0000 <mastarija> tester :: Test (V as) -> Test (V as)
2023-03-13 13:09:14 +0000 <mastarija> And this one says I need as to be `[*]` (which it is)
2023-03-13 13:09:19 +0000 <mastarija> tester :: as :< '[One, Two, Three] => Test (V as) -> Test (V as)
2023-03-13 13:09:41 +0000 <merijn> mastarija: Well, the answer on that question seems like it depends on the kind of :<
2023-03-13 13:09:49 +0000 <mastarija> https://hackage.haskell.org/package/haskus-utils-variant-3.3/docs/Haskus-Utils-Variant.html#t::-60-
2023-03-13 13:10:07 +0000 <mastarija> Yes, it does. But I'm not sure how to get around it.
2023-03-13 13:10:31 +0000 <mastarija> Basically, I say that `as` is a subset of '[One, Two, Three].
2023-03-13 13:11:12 +0000 <mastarija> And as long as I know that, I can patternmatch on a variant and do something...
2023-03-13 13:11:35 +0000cheater(~Username@user/cheater) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2023-03-13 13:12:01 +0000cheater(~Username@user/cheater)
2023-03-13 13:12:34 +0000 <mastarija> Ah.. I used the wrong operator...
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2023-03-13 14:38:02 +0000 <merijn> Wait...Verse announcement was already 2021 and a year has gone by without me getting around to looking at it? >.<
2023-03-13 14:46:17 +0000EllenorAmyMalik
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2023-03-13 14:47:42 +0000 <mastarija> Can we have rank N lenses?
2023-03-13 14:49:17 +0000 <mastarija> Like, this is the `Traversal` signature:
2023-03-13 14:49:20 +0000 <mastarija> type Traversal s t a b = forall f. Applicative f => (a -> f b) -> s -> f t
2023-03-13 14:49:32 +0000 <mastarija> And i want to have a `Traversal` like this one:
2023-03-13 14:49:37 +0000 <mastarija> Applicative f => (forall s. SomeX s -> f (SomeX s)) -> Container -> f Container
2023-03-13 14:50:53 +0000 <mastarija> It doesn't work when I try something like `container & traverse . overSomeXs %~ id`
2023-03-13 14:51:04 +0000cheater_(~Username@user/cheater)
2023-03-13 14:51:23 +0000 <mastarija> But it does seem like something I'd like to do.
2023-03-13 14:51:43 +0000zer0bitz(~zer0bitz@2001:2003:f443:d600:24d4:8a68:949c:f66a)
2023-03-13 14:52:24 +0000 <mastarija> If my `Container` contains several `SomeX a` with different `a`s, and if I can write a function that can work for any `SomeX a` it should be possible to "traverse" over them
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2023-03-13 15:35:52 +0000 <jonathanx> Is there a good way to trace the import-path of a typeclass instance?
2023-03-13 15:35:57 +0000cheater_cheater
2023-03-13 15:36:15 +0000 <jonathanx> As in, what module imports are exporting it
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2023-03-13 15:38:23 +0000 <merijn> not really afaik
2023-03-13 15:38:40 +0000 <merijn> But also, if you have to care about that, you're probably screwed to begin with :)
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2023-03-13 16:26:11 +0000 <c_wraith> Hah. I'm credited with a PR in the latest cabal release. I totally forgot I wrote a documentation patch.
2023-03-13 16:28:54 +0000 <monochrom> :)
2023-03-13 16:30:04 +0000lambdap237(~lambdap@static.167.190.119.168.clients.your-server.de)
2023-03-13 16:33:31 +0000 <monochrom> Oh w00t new cabal.
2023-03-13 16:34:54 +0000waleee(~waleee@2001:9b0:21c:4000:5bf9:6515:c030:57b7)
2023-03-13 16:39:58 +0000Midjak(~Midjak@82.66.147.146)
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2023-03-13 16:43:28 +0000elkcl(~elkcl@broadband-37-110-27-252.ip.moscow.rt.ru)
2023-03-13 16:43:31 +0000 <merijn> monochrom: That supports local docs builds with v2-build! \o/
2023-03-13 16:43:38 +0000 <merijn> Modulo some UX issues :p
2023-03-13 16:43:56 +0000acidjnk(~acidjnk@p200300d6e715c4935cdeee750ed3a427.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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2023-03-13 16:45:51 +0000 <monochrom> Wait, there has been a "cabal man" command?!
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2023-03-13 16:52:08 +0000ChanServ+o monochrom
2023-03-13 16:52:32 +0000monochrom+b *!*@134.195.121.39$##fix_your_connection
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2023-03-13 16:52:53 +0000monochrom-o monochrom
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2023-03-13 17:40:37 +0000f-a(~f-a@151.68.36.58)
2023-03-13 17:40:59 +0000 <f-a> I would like to get the size of a byte and if possible pretty print it (MiB, GiB, etc.), which functions to use?
2023-03-13 17:42:04 +0000 <geekosaur> huh?
2023-03-13 17:42:40 +0000 <f-a> sorry
2023-03-13 17:42:49 +0000 <f-a> *size _of a file_
2023-03-13 17:42:54 +0000 <geekosaur> if you mean size in bytes of a value, that's somewhat hard to define in Haskell (include the constructor tag? the info table? etc.); usually people use Storable
2023-03-13 17:42:57 +0000 <geekosaur> oh
2023-03-13 17:43:01 +0000 <f-a> although “size of a byte” is not that trivial
2023-03-13 17:43:18 +0000 <f-a> if you are not French, that is
2023-03-13 17:43:45 +0000vpan(~0@212.117.1.172) (Quit: Leaving.)
2023-03-13 17:44:28 +0000 <geekosaur> https://downloads.haskell.org/ghc/9.2.5/docs/html/libraries/directory-1.3.6.2/System-Directory.htm…
2023-03-13 17:44:47 +0000 <geekosaur> prettyprinting is another question; there might be a package for it
2023-03-13 17:45:11 +0000 <f-a> yeah that would be really handy
2023-03-13 17:46:25 +0000 <geekosaur> that said a simple table by size would do it, with a fold across it
2023-03-13 17:48:31 +0000 <EvanR> the tricky one to answer is, what is the size of 1 bit
2023-03-13 17:49:25 +0000 <EvanR> 0.125 doesn't fit into a size_t xD
2023-03-13 17:49:41 +0000nschoe(~q@141.101.51.197) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2023-03-13 17:51:24 +0000 <EvanR> and 1 bit = 1 bit seems like a cop out
2023-03-13 17:51:49 +0000cheater_(~Username@user/cheater)
2023-03-13 17:52:44 +0000ChanServ+o litharge
2023-03-13 17:52:45 +0000litharge-bo *!*@134.195.121.39$##fix_your_connection litharge
2023-03-13 17:53:01 +0000bramhaag(~bramhaag@134.195.121.39)
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2023-03-13 17:53:30 +0000 <geekosaur> > let fs = 3*1024*1024+8 in foldr (\(s,x) v -> fromMaybe v (if fs >= s then Just $ show (fs `div` s) ++ " " ++ x else Nothing)) "0 B" [(1,"B"),(1024,"KiB"),(1024*1024,"MiB"),(1024*1024*1024,"GiB")]
2023-03-13 17:53:32 +0000 <lambdabot> "3145736 B"
2023-03-13 17:53:39 +0000 <geekosaur> hm, wrong order
2023-03-13 17:54:11 +0000bramhaag(~bramhaag@134.195.121.39)
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2023-03-13 17:54:52 +0000 <geekosaur> > let fs = 3*1024*1024+8 in foldr (\(s,x) v -> fromMaybe v (if fs >= s then Just $ show (fs `div` s) ++ " " ++ x else Nothing)) "0 B" [(1024*1024*1024),"GiB",(1024*1024,"MiB",(1024,"kiB"),(1,"B")]
2023-03-13 17:54:53 +0000cheater_cheater
2023-03-13 17:54:54 +0000 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:194: error: parse error on input ‘]’
2023-03-13 17:55:07 +0000 <geekosaur> > let fs = 3*1024*1024+8 in foldr (\(s,x) v -> fromMaybe v (if fs >= s then Just $ show (fs `div` s) ++ " " ++ x else Nothing)) "0 B" [(1024*1024*1024),"GiB"),(1024*1024,"MiB"),(1024,"kiB"),(1,"B")]
2023-03-13 17:55:09 +0000 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:156: error: parse error on input ‘)’
2023-03-13 17:55:17 +0000 <geekosaur> > let fs = 3*1024*1024+8 in foldr (\(s,x) v -> fromMaybe v (if fs >= s then Just $ show (fs `div` s) ++ " " ++ x else Nothing)) "0 B" [(1024*1024*1024,"GiB"),(1024*1024,"MiB"),(1024,"kiB"),(1,"B")]
2023-03-13 17:55:18 +0000Joao003(~Joao003@2804:840:830f:1400:315f:769b:92cf:47ce)
2023-03-13 17:55:19 +0000 <lambdabot> "3 MiB"
2023-03-13 17:55:21 +0000bramhaag(~bramhaag@134.195.121.39)
2023-03-13 17:55:21 +0000bramhaag(~bramhaag@134.195.121.39) (Remote host closed the connection)
2023-03-13 17:55:56 +0000 <geekosaur> add more sizes as needed
2023-03-13 17:56:32 +0000bramhaag(~bramhaag@134.195.121.39)
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2023-03-13 17:56:41 +0000bramhaag(~bramhaag@134.195.121.39)
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2023-03-13 17:57:02 +0000bramhaag(~bramhaag@134.195.121.39)
2023-03-13 17:57:02 +0000 <geekosaur> sigh
2023-03-13 17:57:02 +0000bramhaag(~bramhaag@134.195.121.39) (Remote host closed the connection)
2023-03-13 17:57:04 +0000ChanServ+o geekosaur
2023-03-13 17:57:12 +0000bramhaag(~bramhaag@134.195.121.39)
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2023-03-13 17:57:47 +0000geekosaur+b *!*@134.195.121.39$##fix-your-connection
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2023-03-13 18:12:58 +0000ChanServ+o litharge
2023-03-13 18:12:59 +0000litharge-bo *!*@134.195.121.39$##fix-your-connection litharge
2023-03-13 18:13:09 +0000bramhaag(~bramhaag@134.195.121.39)
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2023-03-13 18:13:14 +0000ChanServ+o monochrom
2023-03-13 18:13:15 +0000tzh(~tzh@c-24-21-73-154.hsd1.or.comcast.net)
2023-03-13 18:13:19 +0000monochrom+b *!*@134.195.121.39$##fix_your_connection
2023-03-13 18:13:37 +0000mei(~mei@user/mei)
2023-03-13 18:14:00 +0000monochrom-o monochrom
2023-03-13 18:14:20 +0000 <monochrom> (I'm trying 2 hours this time. Last time was 1 hour.)
2023-03-13 18:14:59 +0000geekosaur-o geekosaur
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2023-03-13 19:48:31 +0000tokie(~tokie@tokie.net)
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2023-03-13 19:50:49 +0000Fischmiep(~Fischmiep@user/Fischmiep)
2023-03-13 19:51:26 +0000 <tokie> I'm playing around with early understanding of instances and I'm trying to make a type called 'IntNeverEqual a' that implements Eq for all a, and always returns False if a is an Int. Is this possible? This is my attempt at at least doing it for Num: https://play.haskell.org/saved/whWNDTHU
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2023-03-13 19:52:40 +0000f-a(~f-a@151.34.14.249) ()
2023-03-13 19:54:01 +0000 <monochrom> No, this is incoherent.
2023-03-13 19:55:24 +0000L29Ah(~L29Ah@wikipedia/L29Ah)
2023-03-13 19:55:25 +0000 <monochrom> In general you won't have much luck with type-level negations, things like "if not Int" "if not instance of Num" etc.
2023-03-13 19:55:44 +0000 <tokie> yeah, i was trying to make a specialization but i think the resolution rules are stricter than that
2023-03-13 19:56:01 +0000 <tokie> i was just testing the rules since the book i'm reading doesn't quite go into this detail
2023-03-13 19:56:14 +0000 <tokie> or maybe it does 20 chapters from now :)
2023-03-13 19:57:48 +0000 <EvanR> type class instances can only be added not removed, and unless you allow Overlapping, can't overlap
2023-03-13 19:57:49 +0000gnalzo(~gnalzo@2a01:e0a:498:fd50:fcc6:bb5d:489a:ce8c)
2023-03-13 19:59:22 +0000 <tokie> that answers that, thanks!
2023-03-13 20:00:17 +0000merijn(~merijn@86-86-29-250.fixed.kpn.net)
2023-03-13 20:00:27 +0000 <tokie> i guess if you really needed something like this what you would do have just have partial implementation? i.e. only create the instance for the few types you need in your program
2023-03-13 20:00:54 +0000 <tokie> my example is ridiculous because it's a useless type
2023-03-13 20:00:59 +0000 <monochrom> Yes.
2023-03-13 20:01:36 +0000 <EvanR> what you can do for this particular thought experiment is... for all the types you are interested in make an instance for IntNeverEqual which returns True, also of course add the one for Int which returns False
2023-03-13 20:01:44 +0000 <EvanR> basically brute force
2023-03-13 20:01:52 +0000 <tokie> yeah, got it
2023-03-13 20:01:53 +0000roboguy_(~roboguy_@cpe-69-76-235-109.kc.res.rr.com)
2023-03-13 20:03:19 +0000 <tokie> oh, i guess my other question was whether or not you can implement Eq for a specific IntNeverEqual (e.g. (IntNeverEqual Int)) vs. using constraints and I believe the answer is no
2023-03-13 20:03:39 +0000 <tokie> instance Eq (IntNeverEqual Int) where ...
2023-03-13 20:03:49 +0000 <EvanR> instance IntNeverEqual a => Eq a where
2023-03-13 20:04:15 +0000sigfried(~rsx@92.62.57.242) (Quit: WeeChat 3.8)
2023-03-13 20:04:17 +0000 <EvanR> which depending on what's covered under IntNeverEqual would probably overlap
2023-03-13 20:04:30 +0000 <EvanR> (multiple Eq instances)
2023-03-13 20:04:59 +0000 <EvanR> (for the same type)
2023-03-13 20:05:29 +0000eggplantade(~Eggplanta@2600:1700:38c5:d800:19aa:397c:29a:40e4)
2023-03-13 20:06:14 +0000 <EvanR> my instance is defining an Eq instance for all IntNeverEqual types at once
2023-03-13 20:06:14 +0000L29Ah(~L29Ah@wikipedia/L29Ah) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2023-03-13 20:06:53 +0000 <EvanR> I now realize not what you were going for
2023-03-13 20:07:10 +0000cheater_(~Username@user/cheater)
2023-03-13 20:07:15 +0000 <geekosaur> tokie, IntNeverEqual is not a type so you can't define an instance that way; instances are on types, not constraints
2023-03-13 20:07:38 +0000 <EvanR> Int already has an Eq instance and trying to make another one would cause overlap
2023-03-13 20:08:13 +0000lyle(~lyle@104.246.145.237) (Quit: WeeChat 3.8)
2023-03-13 20:08:53 +0000cheater(~Username@user/cheater) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2023-03-13 20:08:55 +0000cheater_cheater
2023-03-13 20:09:07 +0000 <tokie> geekosaur: mm, yeah. that makes sense now
2023-03-13 20:09:09 +0000 <tokie> thanks!
2023-03-13 20:09:45 +0000eggplantade(~Eggplanta@2600:1700:38c5:d800:19aa:397c:29a:40e4) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2023-03-13 20:13:11 +0000trev(~trev@user/trev) (Remote host closed the connection)
2023-03-13 20:13:38 +0000 <tokie> i think my head was trying to relate partial functions to an idea about partial instances, but i realize that partial functions are not about functions that take different types
2023-03-13 20:13:51 +0000ft(~ft@p3e9bc443.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2023-03-13 20:13:51 +0000ChanServ+o litharge
2023-03-13 20:13:52 +0000litharge-bo *!*@134.195.121.39$##fix_your_connection litharge
2023-03-13 20:13:58 +0000 <Jade[m]1> mhm
2023-03-13 20:14:36 +0000 <Jade[m]1> In these cases you should also sometimes ask yourself "Why would I ever need this, can I think of a use-case?"
2023-03-13 20:14:52 +0000 <Jade[m]1> and even if there is - it'll probably be better covered by something else
2023-03-13 20:15:25 +0000 <tokie> well, there's things a lot of type system do that i don't think they do should do, lol
2023-03-13 20:15:43 +0000 <tokie> i was testing the constraints
2023-03-13 20:16:01 +0000 <Jade[m]1> 👍
2023-03-13 20:17:09 +0000ardell(~ardell@user/ardell) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2023-03-13 20:17:56 +0000 <EvanR> partial functions are missing an answer for some inputs. Instances can be missing parts of their implementation. Both are questionably questionable but unrelated xD
2023-03-13 20:18:02 +0000 <geekosaur> I think what you're trying to do is better covered by type families, but that willquickly get you very deep into complex type issues
2023-03-13 20:18:46 +0000 <EvanR> instances associate values to (some) types, type families associate types to (some) types
2023-03-13 20:21:35 +0000califax(~califax@user/califx) (Remote host closed the connection)
2023-03-13 20:21:53 +0000califax(~califax@user/califx)
2023-03-13 20:26:54 +0000 <tomsmeding> the same but said differently: instances are type -> values, type families are type -> type
2023-03-13 20:27:05 +0000 <tomsmeding> (to avoid confusion which way "associate" goes)
2023-03-13 20:32:38 +0000 <EvanR> injective type families, it goes both ways!
2023-03-13 20:33:16 +0000 <geekosaur> but this one wouldn't be injective because all types but Int would map to 'False
2023-03-13 20:33:23 +0000L29Ah(~L29Ah@wikipedia/L29Ah)
2023-03-13 20:33:32 +0000 <geekosaur> making it difficult to reverse
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2023-03-13 23:06:34 +0000 <AWizzArd> Can I convince ghci to use `Type` instead of `*` as output in :kind signatures?
2023-03-13 23:09:44 +0000 <geekosaur> https://paste.tomsmeding.com/Oeo68DcU
2023-03-13 23:10:08 +0000whatsupdoc(uid509081@id-509081.hampstead.irccloud.com) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2023-03-13 23:10:27 +0000NiceBird(~NiceBird@185.133.111.196) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2023-03-13 23:12:34 +0000 <AWizzArd> geekosaur: works! Are there some major disadvantages when putting this into my ghci config?
2023-03-13 23:12:41 +0000 <geekosaur> no
2023-03-13 23:12:59 +0000 <geekosaur> in fact it's preferred these days and at some point will become the default
2023-03-13 23:13:15 +0000 <geekosaur> * is backward compatibility
2023-03-13 23:13:49 +0000Umeaboy(~Umeaboy@m90-129-221-19.cust.tele2.se)
2023-03-13 23:14:23 +0000 <AWizzArd> thx
2023-03-13 23:15:38 +0000 <Umeaboy> Hi! Can one use copr to build GHC using a chroot from a different dist? Lets say I need GHC itself to build GHC and my dist doesn't offer any such package, can I then use a similar dist chroot and build a package?
2023-03-13 23:16:54 +0000 <Umeaboy> I was planning to setup a repo with the dependencies that I built already.
2023-03-13 23:17:12 +0000 <geekosaur> I think that's how ghc is currently built for alpine
2023-03-13 23:17:23 +0000 <Umeaboy> Okey.
2023-03-13 23:18:12 +0000 <Umeaboy> https://copr.fedorainfracloud.org/coprs/umeaman/ contains some of my packages to actually build GHC.
2023-03-13 23:18:14 +0000 <geekosaur> hm, not a chroot
2023-03-13 23:19:02 +0000 <geekosaur> docker container. a chroot isn't enough of a container generally, since a glibc has to match a running kernel
2023-03-13 23:19:32 +0000 <hpc> looks like it's a vm pool
2023-03-13 23:19:44 +0000 <hpc> if you do a bit of a clickaroo and find build logs
2023-03-13 23:20:35 +0000 <hpc> btw, usually afterwards you use the ghc you just built to rebuild itself again to finish the bootstrap
2023-03-13 23:21:15 +0000ph88(~ph88@ip5b426553.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de)
2023-03-13 23:21:47 +0000 <Umeaboy> I have a problem with unused .so-files as you can see in the build log.
2023-03-13 23:22:06 +0000 <Umeaboy> Do I invoke LDCONFIG to solve this?
2023-03-13 23:23:55 +0000merijn(~merijn@86-86-29-250.fixed.kpn.net) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2023-03-13 23:24:03 +0000 <hpc> No matching package to install: 'libncurses5' (and libnuma-devel)
2023-03-13 23:24:08 +0000 <hpc> i think that's your error
2023-03-13 23:24:44 +0000wroathe(~wroathe@207-153-38-140.fttp.usinternet.com)
2023-03-13 23:24:45 +0000wroathe(~wroathe@207-153-38-140.fttp.usinternet.com) (Changing host)
2023-03-13 23:24:45 +0000wroathe(~wroathe@user/wroathe)
2023-03-13 23:25:23 +0000chomwitt(~chomwitt@2a02:587:7a18:6d00:1ac0:4dff:fedb:a3f1) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2023-03-13 23:27:23 +0000 <Umeaboy> Yes, I don't think those packages have been built for aarch64 in Mageia yet.
2023-03-13 23:27:32 +0000 <Umeaboy> Let me check.
2023-03-13 23:27:37 +0000mastarija(~mastarija@188.252.199.82) (Quit: WeeChat 3.7.1)
2023-03-13 23:27:38 +0000telser(~quassel@user/telser)
2023-03-13 23:28:22 +0000 <hpc> does it matter that it's ncurses 5? looks like ncurses 6 is packaged
2023-03-13 23:29:17 +0000okiltb^(~okiltb@c-24-30-76-89.hsd1.ga.comcast.net)
2023-03-13 23:29:36 +0000 <geekosaur> the old ghc it's trying to use to bootstrap may require it
2023-03-13 23:29:42 +0000 <Umeaboy> hpc: Not for Mageia as far as I can see:
2023-03-13 23:29:45 +0000 <Umeaboy> https://pkgs.org/download/libncurses6
2023-03-13 23:29:52 +0000 <geekosaur> and ncurses 6 is not backward compatible
2023-03-13 23:30:05 +0000 <hpc> i found it in https://www.mirrorservice.org/sites/mageia.org/pub/mageia/distrib/8/x86_64/media/core/release/
2023-03-13 23:30:41 +0000 <Umeaboy> And my build log mentions that libncurses5 is missing for aarch64.
2023-03-13 23:30:48 +0000 <Umeaboy> Which it IS.
2023-03-13 23:38:45 +0000enoq(~enoq@2a05:1141:1f5:5600:b9c9:721a:599:bfe7) (Quit: enoq)
2023-03-13 23:39:22 +0000Umeaboy(~Umeaboy@m90-129-221-19.cust.tele2.se) (Quit: Connection closed)
2023-03-13 23:42:33 +0000Umeaboy(~Umeaboy@m90-129-221-19.cust.tele2.se)
2023-03-13 23:42:59 +0000 <Umeaboy> My phone got disconnected.....
2023-03-13 23:42:59 +0000 <geekosaur> sadly I think the ghc devs found it easier to stick with ncurses 5 than to deal with (a) ncurses 6 is always the wide version (b) libterminfo has been dropped (it's all in libncurses6 now)
2023-03-13 23:43:03 +0000 <EvanR> though this will take getting used to, before Char could be said (aloud) to be "of kind star". Now "char is of kind type" which is confusing for the uninitiated
2023-03-13 23:43:13 +0000 <EvanR> better to not pronounce anything I guess
2023-03-13 23:43:15 +0000 <Umeaboy> My apologies.
2023-03-13 23:43:34 +0000 <geekosaur> EvanR, worse is ghc encourages that confusion. consider `expected a type`
2023-03-13 23:44:14 +0000 <geekosaur> which really means it expected something of kind `Type`; this is really confusing if you give it a type of a kind other than `Type`
2023-03-13 23:44:36 +0000 <EvanR> what if it expected a * -> *?
2023-03-13 23:44:41 +0000mrcsno(~mrcsno@user/mrcsno) (Quit: WeeChat 3.5)
2023-03-13 23:44:49 +0000 <geekosaur> it reports the kind in that case
2023-03-13 23:45:16 +0000 <geekosaur> whjich is what it should always do IMO, not "simplify" kind `Type` to something confusing
2023-03-13 23:45:48 +0000Umeaboy(~Umeaboy@m90-129-221-19.cust.tele2.se) (Client Quit)
2023-03-13 23:46:42 +0000 <EvanR> you got your Type types, your Non-Types types, your Type non-types, ok maybe not this last one
2023-03-13 23:46:57 +0000 <geekosaur> not that last one
2023-03-13 23:47:05 +0000Ram-Z(Ram-Z@2a01:7e01::f03c:91ff:fe57:d2df) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2023-03-13 23:47:19 +0000 <geekosaur> but `'True` is a type that isn't a `Type`
2023-03-13 23:47:43 +0000 <geekosaur> except ghc will sometimes tell you `expected a type` about it
2023-03-13 23:47:46 +0000 <c_wraith> Heck, `Maybe` is a type that isn't a `Type`
2023-03-13 23:47:58 +0000mcglk(~mcglk@131.191.19.145) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2023-03-13 23:47:59 +0000 <hpc> i write all my python code on paper because it's an untyped language :P
2023-03-13 23:48:17 +0000Ram-Z(~Ram-Z@li1814-254.members.linode.com)
2023-03-13 23:48:25 +0000 <c_wraith> hpc: that seems extreme. you could use punch cards.
2023-03-13 23:49:02 +0000geekosaurthinks he would stick with paper
2023-03-13 23:49:05 +0000 <EvanR> meanwhile PHP and ruby are accurately categorized as punched languages, i.e. what I do to the computer if I have to use them
2023-03-13 23:49:14 +0000 <monochrom> Typed lambda calculus is when you type it up. Untyped lambda calculus is when you use handwriting.
2023-03-13 23:49:25 +0000 <geekosaur> that fortran course was no fun
2023-03-13 23:49:43 +0000 <monochrom> This also explains why untyped lambda calculus comes with recursion. Your handwriting is cursive. >:)
2023-03-13 23:49:50 +0000 <geekosaur> I really wished I could get away with using `f77`
2023-03-13 23:50:29 +0000 <c_wraith> monochrom: well, my handwriting causes cursing, at least
2023-03-13 23:51:17 +0000 <hpc> oh, i just noticed "expected a type" was a kind error and not somehow a level error
2023-03-13 23:51:29 +0000 <hpc> i kept thinking "why doesn't it say 'expected a type, got a value'"
2023-03-13 23:51:39 +0000 <hpc> yeah, definitely confusing
2023-03-13 23:52:05 +0000 <EvanR> in the next update it will be clarified, "expected a type, got a type"
2023-03-13 23:52:15 +0000 <monochrom> haha
2023-03-13 23:52:32 +0000 <hpc> "expected one type of type, got another type of type"
2023-03-13 23:52:46 +0000 <hpc> "try typing a different type of type"
2023-03-13 23:53:08 +0000 <EvanR> Kind Mismatch
2023-03-13 23:53:42 +0000mcglk(~mcglk@131.191.19.145)
2023-03-13 23:55:55 +0000 <geekosaur> in the next release they'll call that "a kind of error"
2023-03-13 23:56:41 +0000 <hpc> i hear in ghc 15 type errors will be catchable exceptions
2023-03-13 23:57:16 +0000 <geekosaur> too late, `-fdefer-type-errors` is already a thing
2023-03-13 23:57:37 +0000 <hpc> catchable type-level exceptions, of course
2023-03-13 23:57:44 +0000 <hpc> what kind of loon would let such a thing occur at runtime :P
2023-03-13 23:58:34 +0000 <EvanR> type level openGL which shows type level graphics to a type level user
2023-03-13 23:59:06 +0000 <geekosaur> shh, don't give ekmett ideas 🙂