IRCBrowse

2022/12/01

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2022-12-01 00:01:07 +0100 <pavonia> The famous off-by-4-billion-error
2022-12-01 00:01:30 +0100lisbeths(uid135845@id-135845.lymington.irccloud.com)
2022-12-01 00:05:18 +0100fostyr(~fostyr@2607:fea8:c1e2:100::f7a3)
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2022-12-01 00:07:02 +0100 <dminuoso> sammelweis: Look into https://hackage.haskell.org/package/validated-literals
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2022-12-01 01:29:02 +0100 <talismanick> Are there mature libraries for constraint-based GUI layout?
2022-12-01 01:35:24 +0100freeside(~mengwong@103.252.202.193)
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2022-12-01 01:39:42 +0100 <Guest75> I'm a beginner anyway, but what does that mean constraint-based (in a sense of UI)? Is that something automated?
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2022-12-01 01:44:10 +0100 <hpc> it's kind of like css, you say what things are next to each other, what things can be in what size ranges, etc
2022-12-01 01:44:21 +0100 <hpc> and everything's position gets calculated based on those constraints, window size, dpi, etc
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2022-12-01 04:58:05 +0100 <freeside> thanks for all the help yesterday troubleshooting the cabal situation. I still don't know why stack recommended 3.8.1.0 when it should have recommended 3.6.3.0 for LTS 20.2.
2022-12-01 04:58:18 +0100 <freeside> Anyway, I have it working now, with extra-deps pinned to 3.6.3.0.
2022-12-01 05:07:36 +0100 <Clinton[m]> does anyone here use HLS with VSCode and know how to see/dump a Template Haskell splice? It seems like HLS has the feature but I don't know how to use it in VSCode: https://github.com/haskell/haskell-language-server/blob/master/docs/features.md
2022-12-01 05:08:50 +0100 <maerwald[m]> Clinton: it's a code action
2022-12-01 05:08:56 +0100rnat(uid73555@id-73555.lymington.irccloud.com)
2022-12-01 05:08:58 +0100 <maerwald[m]> refactor.rewrite
2022-12-01 05:12:16 +0100 <Clinton[m]> hrmmm weird I'm not getting the little lightbulb popup when I hover over the splice
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2022-12-01 05:25:43 +0100 <freeside> say, given that LTS20.2 uses ghc 9.2.5, would it be fair to assume that HLS support for 9.2.5 is in the works, or should I try to build it myself? I see HLS officially supports 9.2.3 and 9.2.4 so by induction it will support 9.2.5
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2022-12-01 05:30:01 +0100 <maerwald[m]> freeside: https://www.haskell.org/ghcup/guide/#hls
2022-12-01 05:30:09 +0100 <albet70> if there is f :: (String -> IO ()) -> (String -> IO ()) -> IO (), how turn it to ContT?
2022-12-01 05:30:29 +0100quazimodo(~quazimodo@122-199-39-221.ip4.superloop.com)
2022-12-01 05:31:36 +0100 <quazimodo> i'm having trouble understanding how oop's dependency injection relates to functional languages. Some of the things i've read may say 'fp languages dont need it because they're free of sideeffects'
2022-12-01 05:31:54 +0100 <quazimodo> but that's not strictly true is it, wouldn't a function that does io to a database ultimately do that while being tested?
2022-12-01 05:31:56 +0100waleee(~waleee@2001:9b0:213:7200:cc36:a556:b1e8:b340) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2022-12-01 05:32:15 +0100 <quazimodo> or am I naive and there's an easy answer i've missed
2022-12-01 05:34:54 +0100 <freeside> maerwald[m]: I am trying the ghcup compile hls on a number of different platforms, because even the example invocations give me a BuildFailed with complaints about "after searching the rest of the dependency tree exhaustively..."
2022-12-01 05:36:02 +0100segfaultfizzbuzz(~segfaultf@23-93-74-212.fiber.dynamic.sonic.net) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2022-12-01 05:36:32 +0100 <freeside> even `ghcup compile hls --version 1.8.0.0 --ghc 9.2.4` doesn't work for me ... i'm going to try on intel instead of M1 in case it has something to do with that.
2022-12-01 05:36:39 +0100Sauvin(~sauvin@user/Sauvin)
2022-12-01 05:37:34 +0100 <EvanR> quazimodo, dependency injection falls into a big set of concepts in OOP that in FP become "just pass in an argument"
2022-12-01 05:37:50 +0100 <EvanR> or just use a function
2022-12-01 05:38:01 +0100 <EvanR> that takes the dependency as input
2022-12-01 05:39:27 +0100FinnElija(~finn_elij@user/finn-elija/x-0085643) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-12-01 05:40:00 +0100 <monochrom> Yeah "free of side effects" has nothing to do with it. However, "parameters can be functions too!" is the one.
2022-12-01 05:40:25 +0100FinnElija(~finn_elij@user/finn-elija/x-0085643)
2022-12-01 05:40:57 +0100 <EvanR> sometimes "the return value can be a function" is key
2022-12-01 05:41:23 +0100 <EvanR> a function which holds the dependency, like a database connection, in the closure
2022-12-01 05:41:55 +0100 <jackdk> quazimodo: In addition to EvanR's point, the argument that you "just pass in" could be a collection of functions that perform the effect you're interested in, rather than a `Handle` or `Connection` or whatever. There is also a lot of research into "effect systems", where you "interpret" some "effect" in one of several different ways. But that uses some pretty advanced features and I'd recommend learning the base language first.
2022-12-01 05:42:09 +0100 <monochrom> Many objects are just glorified bundles of glorified functions (rebranded to "methods"), so in FP just remove the Object Obfuscation Pomposity (OOP) and call it a bundle of functions.
2022-12-01 05:42:10 +0100 <quazimodo> EvanR: i guess in an oop env such as a .net c# app a lot of dependencies are 'auto injected'; you might be deep down some rabbit hole of function calls & will receive the thing you wanted without having to actually drill that argument down
2022-12-01 05:43:05 +0100 <jackdk> You often see a similar effect performed using the ReaderT monad transformer, which also relieves you from manually passing an arg around
2022-12-01 05:43:25 +0100 <quazimodo> i kinda had a feeling it would be something like this
2022-12-01 05:44:28 +0100 <freeside> "dependency injection" sounds to me like a euphemism for "tramp data" :D
2022-12-01 05:44:34 +0100 <quazimodo> monochrom: yeah i'm not a fan of the growing set of concepts in oop world that are just sensible abstractions
2022-12-01 05:45:16 +0100 <quazimodo> EvanR: returning functions can be one way to do it, sure
2022-12-01 05:46:24 +0100 <EvanR> we have crazy ways to pass in an argument too
2022-12-01 05:46:28 +0100 <EvanR> like reflection xD
2022-12-01 05:46:57 +0100 <jackdk> And to think that I felt bad talking about effect systems!
2022-12-01 05:48:10 +0100 <quazimodo> I get away with 'denpendency injection' in typescript (i don't use the oop features there) by declaring a 'container' module that i populate at the start of the program, or mock at the start of a test, which contains namespaced dependencies
2022-12-01 05:48:52 +0100 <quazimodo> the rest of my code has a hard dependency to the 'container', it's not passed down and can't be overridden somewhere down a call stack but it suffices, mostly
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2022-12-01 05:50:25 +0100 <EvanR> it kind of sounds like dependency injection was invented in order to stop saying "globals bad" too many times
2022-12-01 05:50:43 +0100 <EvanR> or to rename the use of globals so it didn't seem bad
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2022-12-01 05:58:47 +0100leifmetcalf5(~leifmetca@210.54.33.112)
2022-12-01 06:00:25 +0100 <albet70> how to solve passing two continuations to one ContT?
2022-12-01 06:01:23 +0100 <albet70> inside ContT to decide using which one continuation
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2022-12-01 06:31:05 +0100 <Clinton[m]> can't work out how to expand Template Haskell splices inline in VSCode with HLS 1.7.0.0 on GHC 9.2.2, but is there anyway to dump the splices as part of a cabal build? --ghc-options=-ddump-splices doesn't seem to produce any splice files in the build directory.
2022-12-01 06:34:09 +0100 <EvanR> albet70, well it's like passing two IO actions to one race :: IO a -> IO a -> IO a
2022-12-01 06:34:23 +0100 <EvanR> race can use the two actions however it wants, internally
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2022-12-01 06:38:41 +0100 <albet70> EvanR , how to fit ContT?
2022-12-01 06:39:31 +0100Sgeo(~Sgeo@user/sgeo)
2022-12-01 06:39:32 +0100Lord_of_Life_(~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915)
2022-12-01 06:40:03 +0100 <EvanR> is the type you want like ContT m a -> ContT m a -> ContT m a?
2022-12-01 06:40:08 +0100Lord_of_Life(~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2022-12-01 06:40:08 +0100 <albet70> if there is only one continuation, so f :: (String -> IO ()) -> IO () can be ContT () IO String
2022-12-01 06:40:49 +0100Lord_of_Life_Lord_of_Life
2022-12-01 06:41:26 +0100 <albet70> but now are two continuations, type K = String -> IO (), f :: K -> K -> IO ()
2022-12-01 06:41:40 +0100 <quazimodo> would you expect vscode to understand that the variable hazard in `var hazard = await _hazardRepository.FirstOrDefaultAsync((Guid)input.Id)` should be of type Hazard if _hazardRepository is of type IRepository<Hazard, Guid>?
2022-12-01 06:41:47 +0100 <quazimodo> ah crap wrong channel, my bad
2022-12-01 06:42:09 +0100 <albet70> EvanR , yes, how to turn this f to that?
2022-12-01 06:53:51 +0100 <freeside> https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Haskell/Continuation_passing_style#Example:_coroutines
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2022-12-01 06:56:34 +0100 <albet70> f :: (String -> IO ()) -> ContT () IO String
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2022-12-01 09:41:26 +0100 <dminuoso> monochrom: What makes these "OOP"/"object"/"method" things special is most of the time subtyping, but because you get a tiny bit of syntax sugar sprinkled ontop, its easy to confuse the definition style (have something called `class` and define a method inside there), invoking it via`a.foo()` being a core theme.
2022-12-01 09:41:32 +0100son0p(~ff@2604:3d08:5b7f:5540::fc20) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2022-12-01 09:41:56 +0100 <dminuoso> But what's really special and not easy to mimic, is `a.foo()` being resolved depending on the type of a with subtyping.
2022-12-01 09:43:05 +0100 <dminuoso> Even what these langauges consider as `class` has little to do with encapsulation, but mostly just with subtyping relationships. The fact they give some keywords to control encapsulation is nice, but not not important (given how we can achieve encapsulation just the same, by controlling export lists)
2022-12-01 09:44:20 +0100 <dminuoso> So perhaps Java is best called subtyping-oriented, not object-oriented.
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2022-12-01 11:44:41 +0100 <Scraeling> Is it possible to get the name of the module where a function from another module gets called with templatehaskell?
2022-12-01 11:44:54 +0100 <Scraeling> or in any way
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2022-12-01 12:03:21 +0100dignissmus(~sam@user/dignissimus)
2022-12-01 12:07:16 +0100 <dignissmus> I did my advent of code in Haskell and I'm wondering how I'd write it better https://paste.tomsmeding.com/8qvh8M2P
2022-12-01 12:08:11 +0100thyriaen(~thyriaen@2a01:aea0:dd4:470d:6245:cbff:fe9f:48b1)
2022-12-01 12:08:16 +0100 <tomsmeding> Scraeling: do you mean to get the module where a certain name `f` is defined, or the module(s) where a certain name `f` is _used_?
2022-12-01 12:08:41 +0100 <tomsmeding> the first you can do, the second is fundamentally impossible because you don't know how many other people are using your code as well
2022-12-01 12:09:28 +0100 <Scraeling> Foo.getCallingModule returns Bar when called from module Bar
2022-12-01 12:09:51 +0100 <tomsmeding> oh, you want the current module where the splice is being evaluated?
2022-12-01 12:09:57 +0100 <Scraeling> Yeah
2022-12-01 12:10:24 +0100 <tomsmeding> Scraeling: see the haddocs of https://hackage.haskell.org/package/template-haskell-2.19.0.0/docs/Language-Haskell-TH.html#v:reif…
2022-12-01 12:10:34 +0100califax(~califax@user/califx)
2022-12-01 12:10:55 +0100 <tomsmeding> (i.e. you want thisModule)
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2022-12-01 12:23:42 +0100dignissmusdignissimus
2022-12-01 12:25:40 +0100 <albet70> there is haskell tutorial for c programmers like https://wiki.haskell.org/Haskell_Tutorial_for_C_Programmers, I wonder if there is c/cpp tutorial for haskell programmers
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2022-12-01 12:53:37 +0100jakalx(~jakalx@base.jakalx.net) ()
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2022-12-01 12:58:04 +0100`2jt(~jtomas@255.red-193-153-6.dynamicip.rima-tde.net)
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2022-12-01 13:11:03 +0100 <dminuoso> My tutorial for c/cpp programming for haskell programmers is https://hackage.haskell.org/package/base-4.17.0.0/docs/Foreign.html
2022-12-01 13:11:39 +0100 <dminuoso> In other words: I consider Haskell is a far better C
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2022-12-01 13:25:04 +0100kadoban(~kadoban@user/kadoban) ()
2022-12-01 13:25:21 +0100kadoban(~kadoban@user/kadoban)
2022-12-01 13:26:16 +0100 <chreekat> <albet70> "there is haskell tutorial for..." <- I thought that was called Rust :P
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2022-12-01 13:51:33 +0100 <mauke> I love declarative programming https://thedailywtf.com/articles/common-variables
2022-12-01 13:54:29 +0100 <dminuoso> Is there a kind of `for_ \continue thing -> do { when expr continue; ... }`, or do I have to build my own with Cont?
2022-12-01 13:54:46 +0100Guest1499(~Guest14@217.64.164.1)
2022-12-01 13:55:24 +0100 <mauke> I'm not aware of anything other than 'when (not expr) ...'
2022-12-01 13:55:59 +0100 <dminuoso> Yeah the more I think, you have to use Cont for this.
2022-12-01 13:56:13 +0100 <dminuoso> Unless there were two explicit continuations
2022-12-01 13:56:48 +0100 <dminuoso> i.e. `forC_ \skip handle thing -> if a then skip else (handle { do ... })`
2022-12-01 13:58:46 +0100 <dminuoso> Or mmm. I think I have an idea.
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2022-12-01 14:00:46 +0100 <thyriaen> mauke, made my day
2022-12-01 14:03:16 +0100tromp(~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl)
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2022-12-01 14:09:52 +0100azimut(~azimut@gateway/tor-sasl/azimut)
2022-12-01 14:10:31 +0100 <Square> There is no filter for Maybe hidden somewhere in base?
2022-12-01 14:11:03 +0100 <mauke> :t catMaybes
2022-12-01 14:11:04 +0100 <lambdabot> [Maybe a] -> [a]
2022-12-01 14:12:10 +0100 <Square> thanks
2022-12-01 14:12:15 +0100 <mauke> :t \p m -> do x <- m; guard (p x)
2022-12-01 14:12:16 +0100 <lambdabot> (Monad m, Alternative m) => (t -> Bool) -> m t -> m ()
2022-12-01 14:13:33 +0100 <chymera> is there any way to tell ghc to let me use tabs for indentation?
2022-12-01 14:14:12 +0100 <mauke> isn't that the default?
2022-12-01 14:14:20 +0100 <mauke> or have tabs been outlawed now
2022-12-01 14:14:23 +0100 <merijn> chymera: You already can, it just follows the same standard as all unix tools (i.e. tab expands until nearest ttabstop)
2022-12-01 14:14:44 +0100 <merijn> mauke: No, still on by defaulted, but using the old unix interpretation of "nearest multiple of 8 tabstop"
2022-12-01 14:14:55 +0100 <merijn> So they never do what beginners expect :p
2022-12-01 14:15:03 +0100 <merijn> Which is another way of saying: don't use tabs
2022-12-01 14:15:44 +0100off^(~off@76.145.185.103) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-12-01 14:16:46 +0100 <merijn> Square: See also mapMaybe
2022-12-01 14:16:49 +0100 <chymera> merijn: mauke I get warnings like this when compiling https://bpa.st/WT5A
2022-12-01 14:16:50 +0100 <merijn> :t mapMaybe
2022-12-01 14:16:51 +0100 <lambdabot> (a -> Maybe b) -> [a] -> [b]
2022-12-01 14:17:46 +0100 <merijn> chymera: Pretty sure -Wtabs isn't on by default, so you must have enabled it
2022-12-01 14:18:02 +0100 <chymera> is there any way to disable that? I mean it's fine if some people have a strong preference for spaces but my stdout is no place for that :D
2022-12-01 14:18:14 +0100 <chymera> merijn: so -Wtabs is an option which warns on tabs?
2022-12-01 14:18:15 +0100 <Square> merijn, thanks. I always got (>>=), just wondered if there it was hidden in some class instance
2022-12-01 14:18:17 +0100 <merijn> ah, wait
2022-12-01 14:18:22 +0100 <merijn> -Wtabs *is* default
2022-12-01 14:18:37 +0100 <merijn> chymera: Yes
2022-12-01 14:18:50 +0100 <mauke> -Wno-tabs
2022-12-01 14:19:04 +0100 <merijn> Square: It's in Data.Maybe :)
2022-12-01 14:19:20 +0100 <merijn> So is catMaybes
2022-12-01 14:19:34 +0100acidjnk_new(~acidjnk@p200300d6e7137a61a4ce40e1809b5c20.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2022-12-01 14:19:35 +0100 <merijn> But 90% of uses of catMaybes should instead replace a map with mapMaybe :p
2022-12-01 14:19:50 +0100 <chymera> ah, so it wants spaces as an input and `-Wno-tabs` simply converts my code to spaces behind the scenes?
2022-12-01 14:20:07 +0100 <merijn> chymera: No, -Wno-tabs literally just disables the warning for tabs
2022-12-01 14:20:14 +0100 <chymera> ah, ok
2022-12-01 14:20:15 +0100 <chymera> cool
2022-12-01 14:20:20 +0100 <chymera> how can I globally set that?
2022-12-01 14:20:47 +0100 <mauke> "global" within what scope?
2022-12-01 14:21:02 +0100 <chymera> either system or user
2022-12-01 14:21:11 +0100 <chymera> preferably system but user is also fine
2022-12-01 14:22:19 +0100 <chymera> I mean I can alias the command, but there must be some nicer way, right?
2022-12-01 14:22:25 +0100 <mauke> not really
2022-12-01 14:22:29 +0100 <chymera> :(
2022-12-01 14:22:46 +0100 <merijn> That depends on how you build stuff
2022-12-01 14:22:49 +0100 <mauke> the best way I can think of is creating a custom ghc script that invokes the real ghc with -Wno-tabs
2022-12-01 14:22:57 +0100 <mauke> and make sure your wrapper appears first in PATH
2022-12-01 14:23:17 +0100MajorBiscuit(~MajorBisc@ip-185-104-137-32.ptr.icomera.net) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2022-12-01 14:23:26 +0100 <merijn> Well, you could set it in the global ghc-options of ~/.cabal/config, but who knows what possible negative consequences that incurs :p
2022-12-01 14:23:34 +0100freeside(~mengwong@103.252.202.193)
2022-12-01 14:23:59 +0100 <mauke> alternatively, put {-# OPTIONS_GHC -Wno-tabs #-} at the top of every source file
2022-12-01 14:24:15 +0100 <chymera> mauke: yeah, that's what I meant by aliasing
2022-12-01 14:24:36 +0100 <chymera> {-# OPTIONS_GHC -Wno-tabs #-} might actually be best for portability
2022-12-01 14:24:40 +0100gurkenglas(~gurkengla@p548ac72e.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2022-12-01 14:24:52 +0100 <merijn> hmm
2022-12-01 14:24:53 +0100 <mauke> but really, at that point it's easier to :set expandtabs softtabstop=-1 shiftwidth=8 or something
2022-12-01 14:24:57 +0100 <chymera> that way if anybody else contributes they don't get spammed in stdout
2022-12-01 14:25:18 +0100 <merijn> There's no real "Eq a => [a] -> [[a]]" that, basically, consist of repeated applications of span/break, is there?
2022-12-01 14:25:31 +0100shriekingnoise(~shrieking@186.137.167.202)
2022-12-01 14:26:57 +0100jao(~jao@cpc103048-sgyl39-2-0-cust502.18-2.cable.virginm.net)
2022-12-01 14:27:48 +0100 <chymera> mauke: nah, I actually want the tab chars in my code, it's not just that pressing tab is easer
2022-12-01 14:28:22 +0100 <mauke> why?
2022-12-01 14:28:34 +0100freeside(~mengwong@103.252.202.193) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2022-12-01 14:29:00 +0100 <mauke> (Haskell is pretty much the only language where I think physical tabs are inferior)
2022-12-01 14:29:26 +0100 <merijn> Some people like to debug obscure tabstop errors :p
2022-12-01 14:31:23 +0100jao(~jao@cpc103048-sgyl39-2-0-cust502.18-2.cable.virginm.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-12-01 14:32:31 +0100jao(~jao@cpc103048-sgyl39-2-0-cust502.18-2.cable.virginm.net)
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2022-12-01 14:33:26 +0100bitdex(~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex) (Quit: = "")
2022-12-01 14:33:29 +0100 <mauke> the reason is that unlike most other languages, Haskell's syntax is not based on indentation levels, but making things line up with other things
2022-12-01 14:34:23 +0100 <mauke> in other languages I can adjust the width of my tabs and the code will still make sense, whether I use tabstop=3 or tabstop=4 or tabstop=8 or whatever
2022-12-01 14:34:49 +0100 <TMA> mauke: there is a combination, some are based on indentation levels (more indented means "in next level")
2022-12-01 14:36:50 +0100 <mauke> in Haskell, the starting column of a layout block is determined by the horizontal position of the token following the layout keyword (do, where, let, ...)
2022-12-01 14:37:05 +0100 <TMA> I have read a style guide for tabs for levels, spaces for lining up and it produced mixed tab/space sequences ; OTOH it was OK(ish) with any tabstop= setting
2022-12-01 14:37:05 +0100 <mauke> which is not necessarily at the beginning of a line
2022-12-01 14:37:28 +0100opticblast(~Thunderbi@secure-165.caltech.edu)
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2022-12-01 14:37:46 +0100 <mauke> you can do that, but in the end it's a lot of fiddly (and usually blind) work for little benefit
2022-12-01 14:38:36 +0100 <mauke> also, if you apply that rigorously to Haskell, you end up with 0 tabs always because Haskell has no indentation levels, technically :-)
2022-12-01 14:38:50 +0100 <merijn> Yes, every so often some religious prophet/heretic (depending on your point of view) will argue that his divine insight has produced a sane way of "tabs in haskell", they're mostly ignored the way you'd ignore a doomsday street preacher
2022-12-01 14:40:14 +0100 <Unhammer> When using allocaArray on some Storable, is `poke` used to initialise it, or is that purely based on size/alignment?
2022-12-01 14:40:52 +0100 <Unhammer> I now have https://github.com/unhammer/fastText-haskell/blob/arm/Data/FastText/Internal.hsc#L29..L48 but still getting that weird error with the first string having its first chars being strange
2022-12-01 14:40:54 +0100 <Unhammer> HOWEVER
2022-12-01 14:41:03 +0100 <Unhammer> if I try to get a longer array, it works
2022-12-01 14:41:17 +0100freeside(~mengwong@103.252.202.193)
2022-12-01 14:42:48 +0100 <albet70> all functions in haskell are inline functions?
2022-12-01 14:43:05 +0100 <mauke> no
2022-12-01 14:43:26 +0100 <albet70> referential transparency?
2022-12-01 14:43:46 +0100 <albet70> why no?
2022-12-01 14:44:49 +0100 <Unhammer> if I allocaArray 1, I get "\251\alabel__no" as the first string, 2 gives me "\215\NULlabel__no" (and the second is fine __label__da), 3 gives me "\251\alabel__no" again, 4 "\251\alabel__no", 5 and it finally works
2022-12-01 14:44:56 +0100 <mauke> because some of them are defined in other modules
2022-12-01 14:45:06 +0100 <Unhammer> >=5
2022-12-01 14:45:09 +0100 <mauke> well, and some of them are recursive
2022-12-01 14:45:16 +0100 <mauke> you can't fully inline a recursive function
2022-12-01 14:45:46 +0100 <mauke> Unhammer: do you have a minimal but complete example that demonstrates the problem?
2022-12-01 14:46:23 +0100feliix42(~felix@gibbs.uberspace.de) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2022-12-01 14:46:34 +0100 <albet70> what about just non-recursive functions in one module are inline functions?
2022-12-01 14:46:51 +0100 <albet70> how about
2022-12-01 14:46:51 +0100AWizzArd_(~code@gehrels.uberspace.de) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2022-12-01 14:46:56 +0100 <mauke> now it depends on what exactly you mean by "inline function"
2022-12-01 14:47:05 +0100 <Unhammer> mauke,
2022-12-01 14:47:08 +0100 <Unhammer> git clone -barm https://github.com/unhammer/fastText-haskell && cd fastText-haskell && nix-shell --run 'cabal test'
2022-12-01 14:47:15 +0100 <Unhammer> on apple silicon
2022-12-01 14:47:25 +0100 <Unhammer> works fine on linux :(
2022-12-01 14:47:45 +0100 <albet70> mauke, inline function in cpp or kotlin java
2022-12-01 14:47:53 +0100 <mauke> Unhammer: that doesn't sound very minimal
2022-12-01 14:47:59 +0100 <mauke> albet70: cpp doesn't have functions
2022-12-01 14:48:06 +0100 <mauke> I don't know kotlin
2022-12-01 14:48:21 +0100 <albet70> and java?
2022-12-01 14:49:02 +0100 <mauke> I know java basics, but I don't remember its semantics regarding inline
2022-12-01 14:49:35 +0100feliix42(~felix@gibbs.uberspace.de)
2022-12-01 14:49:46 +0100 <Unhammer> sorry, I know. I'll keep fiddling with it. Was just hoping someone would shout out "you silly person you've mixed up your flux and fibble I remember struggling with this in kindergarten"
2022-12-01 14:49:49 +0100 <mauke> oh, it doesn't even have an inline keyword
2022-12-01 14:50:17 +0100 <merijn> hmm
2022-12-01 14:50:22 +0100 <merijn> Didn't base get sum' recently?
2022-12-01 14:50:26 +0100 <merijn> I can't find it
2022-12-01 14:51:28 +0100 <merijn> ah, it's just sum was made strict
2022-12-01 14:51:30 +0100 <merijn> Thank god
2022-12-01 14:52:21 +0100AWizzArd(~code@gehrels.uberspace.de)
2022-12-01 14:59:07 +0100Putonlalla(~Putonlall@it-cyan.it.jyu.fi) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2022-12-01 15:01:05 +0100 <merijn> Entirely unrelatedly...anyone have any good way of automatically shrinking a bug reproducer in a giant codebase? xD
2022-12-01 15:01:09 +0100FinnElija(~finn_elij@user/finn-elija/x-0085643)
2022-12-01 15:01:11 +0100codaraxis(~codaraxis@user/codaraxis)
2022-12-01 15:01:31 +0100ulvarref`(~user@185.24.53.152) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2022-12-01 15:02:49 +0100 <merijn> If not: Is anyone bored? ;)
2022-12-01 15:02:59 +0100 <mauke> .oO( pour salt on it )
2022-12-01 15:03:21 +0100 <merijn> mauke: I'm already plenty salty xD
2022-12-01 15:06:51 +0100 <dminuoso> merijn | So they never do what beginners expect :p
2022-12-01 15:06:58 +0100 <dminuoso> That applies to any behavior of tab you can imagine.
2022-12-01 15:07:03 +0100 <merijn> Sure
2022-12-01 15:08:20 +0100werneta(~werneta@70-142-214-115.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
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2022-12-01 15:15:28 +0100 <chymera> mauke: why are tabs inferior in haskell?
2022-12-01 15:15:58 +0100 <mauke> see my comments from about 50 minutes ago
2022-12-01 15:16:20 +0100 <mauke> actually more like 44
2022-12-01 15:17:13 +0100Alex_test(~al_test@178.34.163.118) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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2022-12-01 15:18:32 +0100 <chymera> mauke: oh, hadn't seen that
2022-12-01 15:18:48 +0100 <chymera> mauke: I don't think I understand, though... can you give me an example?
2022-12-01 15:19:19 +0100TheCoffeMaker(~TheCoffeM@user/thecoffemaker) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2022-12-01 15:21:07 +0100 <chymera> tabs also determine where things are horizontally, no? how is “where things are horizontally” differ from indentation?
2022-12-01 15:21:39 +0100 <dminuoso> mauke: Curious, why do you say cpp has no functions?
2022-12-01 15:22:22 +0100 <mauke> dminuoso: macros are just token replacement
2022-12-01 15:22:28 +0100 <mauke> I don't count that as functions
2022-12-01 15:22:45 +0100 <dminuoso> I think they meant C++
2022-12-01 15:23:00 +0100 <mauke> yeah, that would make more sense
2022-12-01 15:23:07 +0100Alex_test(~al_test@178.34.163.118)
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2022-12-01 15:24:17 +0100AlexZenon(~alzenon@178.34.163.118)
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2022-12-01 15:30:27 +0100kmein(~weechat@user/kmein) (Quit: ciao kakao)
2022-12-01 15:30:40 +0100 <dminuoso> albet70: In Haskell every binding or function is inlinable, in principle even recursive ones (with some practical limitations). It is a result of referential transparency that lets us do this substitution, and its also the core why learning Haskell is relatively simple.
2022-12-01 15:31:02 +0100kmein(~weechat@user/kmein)
2022-12-01 15:31:12 +0100 <dminuoso> You can always just substitute a thing with its definition (respecting binders, potentially alpha conversions), and get an equivalent program.
2022-12-01 15:31:33 +0100 <dminuoso> However. In practice this wont hold true, because it can have an impact in performance, but that's not a semantic issue.
2022-12-01 15:32:21 +0100 <dminuoso> Also, just because it could be inlined, does not mean it will get inlined. In GHC it is the simplifiers job to figure out whether or ot a function is suitable for inlining (but we do have pragmas to control this, namely INLINE, INLINABLE, OPAQUE and phase control with these).
2022-12-01 15:34:36 +0100 <dminuoso> Recursive functions could in principle be inlined (at least to a degree, say by just unrolling it), and recursive binding groups *are* actually inlined to a degree as well.
2022-12-01 15:35:29 +0100tromp(~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
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2022-12-01 15:36:03 +0100 <dminuoso> albet70: Note, that in GHC inlining can easily occur across modules as well - even with polymorphism in the way. There's additional GHC options and pragmas to steer this too.
2022-12-01 15:37:44 +0100TheCoffeMaker(~TheCoffeM@user/thecoffemaker)
2022-12-01 15:38:07 +0100 <dminuoso> See https://wiki.haskell.org/Inlining_and_Specialisation for further details on that subject
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2022-12-01 15:55:18 +0100 <Franciman> dminuoso: can we say it's a whole-program optimisation?
2022-12-01 15:55:49 +0100 <dminuoso> To an extent, sure
2022-12-01 15:56:11 +0100ChaiTRex(~ChaiTRex@user/chaitrex)
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2022-12-01 16:00:29 +0100 <Unhammer> mauke, I found my bug :) I was doing struct.label = str.c_str(); fixed by doing strcpy(struct.label, str.c_str())
2022-12-01 16:00:45 +0100 <merijn> Unhammer: Classic mistake :p
2022-12-01 16:02:02 +0100 <Unhammer> my C was too ++
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2022-12-01 16:13:30 +0100 <jjhoo> Unhammer: is that label an array that has been allocated ie. something like char label[256]?
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2022-12-01 16:57:05 +0100 <albet70> wonderful
2022-12-01 16:59:34 +0100segfaultfizzbuzz(~segfaultf@23-93-74-212.fiber.dynamic.sonic.net)
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2022-12-01 17:24:28 +0100pta2002(~pta2002@161.230.90.170)
2022-12-01 17:27:00 +0100 <pta2002> Hello, typical noob AOC question incoming, I'm trying to use parsec to parse a list of numbers separated by newlines, with an empty line between them (overkill ik, but trying to dust off my parsec skills), basically turn "1\n2\n3\n\n3\n4\n5" into [[1,2,3],[3,4,5]], but I can't figure out how to do this properly
2022-12-01 17:28:01 +0100KaipeiKaiepi
2022-12-01 17:28:36 +0100 <pta2002> I got the integer parsing and parsing of a single group to work properly (integer = read <$> many1 digit, group = sepBy integer (char '\n')) but now can't figure out how to parse multiple groups, I tried using sepBy group (string "\n\n") but that doesn't work, I guess because the separator is the same, because if I use a diferent character for the group separator it does work
2022-12-01 17:29:01 +0100 <merijn> pta2002: Can you pastebin your parser?
2022-12-01 17:29:07 +0100 <pta2002> sure
2022-12-01 17:29:27 +0100 <merijn> tbh, I don't think parsec has a great "power-to-weight" ratio for the early AoC puzzles
2022-12-01 17:29:53 +0100mbuf(~Shakthi@49.204.116.34) (Quit: Leaving)
2022-12-01 17:30:36 +0100 <pta2002> yeah it definitely does not, i know I can just do like line <$> splitBy "\n\n" or something like that but wanted to dust off my parsec skills
2022-12-01 17:31:04 +0100 <pta2002> merijn: https://gist.github.com/pta2002/dfe130522335cf395857fba1e1cbca8e
2022-12-01 17:31:21 +0100 <pta2002> i tried using try there but that doesn't work, just results in an empty list if there's more than one group
2022-12-01 17:31:50 +0100 <pta2002> forgot the type definition, but CalorieList is just [[Int]]
2022-12-01 17:32:13 +0100 <merijn> sepBy raises red flags
2022-12-01 17:32:22 +0100 <merijn> It accepts empty sequences
2022-12-01 17:32:26 +0100 <merijn> Which you don't want
2022-12-01 17:32:36 +0100 <pta2002> ooooh, yeah, i want to end if it finds an empty sequence
2022-12-01 17:32:39 +0100 <merijn> You almost certainly want sepBy1
2022-12-01 17:32:55 +0100 <merijn> Since every sequence is "1 or more" numbers
2022-12-01 17:33:13 +0100 <pta2002> so you mean sepBy1 on group instead?
2022-12-01 17:33:42 +0100 <merijn> "sepBy1 integer"
2022-12-01 17:33:44 +0100 <merijn> also
2022-12-01 17:33:47 +0100 <jean-paul[m]> pta2002: Are you paying attention to what has been consumed and what hasn't been?
2022-12-01 17:33:51 +0100 <pta2002> doesn't work :c keeps complaining about unexpected "\n"
2022-12-01 17:33:59 +0100 <merijn> Your \n\n end in parseList has no try
2022-12-01 17:34:02 +0100 <pta2002> jean-paul[m]: yeah i mean i guess the issue is it's consuming the \n
2022-12-01 17:34:43 +0100 <pta2002> as in, consuming the final \n looking for an extra integer, but it doesn't find it, and just errors out, which is not what i want, just want it to backtrack that one \n
2022-12-01 17:35:02 +0100 <merijn> oh, might be lack of newline at the end of input too
2022-12-01 17:35:36 +0100 <pta2002> tried parsing "1\n2\n\n1\n2" and that with a \n at the end and it doesn't work
2022-12-01 17:36:29 +0100 <merijn> pta2002: Can you include the actual parse logic?
2022-12-01 17:36:54 +0100 <pta2002> just running on ghci rn but it's parse parseList "(unknown)" [the string]
2022-12-01 17:37:21 +0100 <merijn> What does it return when you run "parse group" on that string?
2022-12-01 17:37:43 +0100 <pta2002> unexpected "\n", expecting digit
2022-12-01 17:39:22 +0100 <merijn> Wait, what if you try to use parsec's newline?
2022-12-01 17:39:27 +0100 <pta2002> so tried making group = (try integer) (char '\n') but get the same issue
2022-12-01 17:39:34 +0100 <pta2002> merijn: where?
2022-12-01 17:39:49 +0100 <merijn> instead of 'char "\n"'
2022-12-01 17:39:55 +0100 <pta2002> same thing
2022-12-01 17:39:56 +0100 <merijn> That's a bad habit anyway
2022-12-01 17:40:00 +0100 <merijn> No it's not
2022-12-01 17:40:14 +0100 <pta2002> uh
2022-12-01 17:40:15 +0100 <merijn> \n maps to "platform specific newline representation" in Haskell
2022-12-01 17:40:33 +0100 <pta2002> ah no, i meant same thing as in same output
2022-12-01 17:40:36 +0100 <merijn> Whereas 'char "\n"' will *only* parse actual \n
2022-12-01 17:40:39 +0100 <pta2002> not same thing as in char '\n' is the same as newline
2022-12-01 17:40:40 +0100 <merijn> hmm
2022-12-01 17:41:43 +0100ft(~ft@p508dbd59.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2022-12-01 17:43:44 +0100 <merijn> Can't really try it right now, because I gotta get started on dinner. I'd write a wrapper that inspects the actual ParseError and reports the exact character it fails via https://hackage.haskell.org/package/parsec-3.1.15.1/docs/Text-Parsec.html#v:errorPos
2022-12-01 17:44:25 +0100 <pta2002> alright, thanks for the help
2022-12-01 17:45:49 +0100ubert1(~Thunderbi@2a02:8109:abc0:6434:1782:c1f:7c60:6e20) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-12-01 17:52:41 +0100econo(uid147250@user/econo)
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2022-12-01 17:53:46 +0100raehik(~raehik@cpc95906-rdng25-2-0-cust156.15-3.cable.virginm.net) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2022-12-01 17:53:47 +0100azimut(~azimut@gateway/tor-sasl/azimut)
2022-12-01 17:54:49 +0100 <pta2002> ah! got it!
2022-12-01 17:55:07 +0100 <pta2002> I needed to use sepEndBy1 instead of sepBy1 on group
2022-12-01 17:55:34 +0100raehik(~raehik@cpc95906-rdng25-2-0-cust156.15-3.cable.virginm.net)
2022-12-01 17:55:51 +0100dextaa6(~DV@user/dextaa)
2022-12-01 17:56:38 +0100pta2002(~pta2002@161.230.90.170) (Quit: leaving)
2022-12-01 17:57:23 +0100dextaa(~DV@user/dextaa) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2022-12-01 17:57:23 +0100dextaa6dextaa
2022-12-01 18:01:51 +0100 <merijn> oh, right
2022-12-01 18:04:32 +0100jrm2(~jrm@user/jrm)
2022-12-01 18:04:46 +0100jrm(~jrm@user/jrm) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2022-12-01 18:05:46 +0100jrm2jrm
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2022-12-01 18:16:39 +0100mbuf(~Shakthi@49.204.116.34)
2022-12-01 18:17:07 +0100 <Unhammer> jjhoo, i think so, by allocaArray
2022-12-01 18:20:58 +0100oldsk00l(~znc@ec2-18-185-101-38.eu-central-1.compute.amazonaws.com)
2022-12-01 18:21:29 +0100califax(~califax@user/califx)
2022-12-01 18:21:59 +0100chexum(~quassel@gateway/tor-sasl/chexum) (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2022-12-01 18:22:34 +0100chexum(~quassel@gateway/tor-sasl/chexum)
2022-12-01 18:37:02 +0100califax(~califax@user/califx) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-12-01 18:39:35 +0100accord(uid568320@id-568320.hampstead.irccloud.com) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2022-12-01 18:42:02 +0100pavonia(~user@user/siracusa) (Quit: Bye!)
2022-12-01 18:42:03 +0100nschoe(~q@141.101.51.197) (Quit: Switching off)
2022-12-01 18:42:44 +0100seydar(~seydar@154-27-113-252.starry-inc.net)
2022-12-01 18:43:42 +0100 <seydar> I did AoC day 1 and I am embarrassed by my code: https://paste.tomsmeding.com/9Uux9WXy
2022-12-01 18:44:17 +0100chexum(~quassel@gateway/tor-sasl/chexum) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2022-12-01 18:44:20 +0100 <seydar> I would appreciate any feedback on how to accumulate the provisions in a more haskellish manner
2022-12-01 18:44:58 +0100califax(~califax@user/califx)
2022-12-01 18:45:02 +0100chexum(~quassel@gateway/tor-sasl/chexum)
2022-12-01 18:45:58 +0100titibandit(~titibandi@xdsl-78-35-173-119.nc.de)
2022-12-01 18:46:25 +0100 <darkling> I can't lay claim to being haskellish, but this was mine: https://github.com/darkling/AoC2022/blob/main/day01/Main.hs
2022-12-01 18:46:52 +0100 <darkling> Read everything in first, then mangle it into shape.
2022-12-01 18:48:11 +0100tromp(~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2022-12-01 18:50:02 +0100jakalx(~jakalx@base.jakalx.net) (Error from remote client)
2022-12-01 18:50:41 +0100use-value(~Thunderbi@2a00:23c6:8a03:2f01:75c2:a71f:beaa:29bf) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-12-01 18:51:01 +0100use-value(~Thunderbi@2a00:23c6:8a03:2f01:75c2:a71f:beaa:29bf)
2022-12-01 18:52:49 +0100 <mauke> I take it this is not the american politician
2022-12-01 18:53:36 +0100 <darkling> No, Advent of Code.
2022-12-01 18:53:44 +0100jakalx(~jakalx@base.jakalx.net)
2022-12-01 18:54:34 +0100 <merijn> darkling: https://github.com/merijn/AdventOfCode/blob/master/Day1.hs
2022-12-01 18:54:35 +0100 <seydar> darkling: ahhh foldr! i'm an IDIOT
2022-12-01 18:54:57 +0100 <geekosaur> do we have a leaderboard yet?
2022-12-01 18:55:04 +0100ChanServ+o geekosaur
2022-12-01 18:55:08 +0100 <merijn> geekosaur: The old one still works, but might be full
2022-12-01 18:55:15 +0100 <merijn> glguy's leaderboard, that is
2022-12-01 18:55:31 +0100 <darkling> Heh. I'm not playing that game. It's released at 5am my time. :)
2022-12-01 18:56:03 +0100eggplantade(~Eggplanta@2600:1700:38c5:d800:e558:b5d6:f082:6f2c)
2022-12-01 18:56:13 +0100 <merijn> I think the most useful trick in my version is: sortOn Down :p
2022-12-01 18:56:22 +0100 https://www.reddit.com/r/haskell | Admin: #haskell-ops | Offtopic: #haskell-offtopic | https://downloads.haskell.org | Paste code/errors: https://paste.tomsmeding.com | Logs: https://ircbrowse.tomsmeding.com/browse/lchaskell | AoC Leaderboard: 43100-84040706
2022-12-01 18:56:31 +0100geekosaur-o geekosaur
2022-12-01 18:56:56 +0100 <darkling> Also, the top of the global leaderboard today finished *both* tasks in 53 seconds... I can't compete with that in *any* language I know. :)
2022-12-01 18:58:10 +0100 <mauke> github is being weird
2022-12-01 18:58:38 +0100 <mauke> I tried logging in to AoC with my github account, and the button to do so is labeled "Authorize topaz", but I have no idea what topaz is
2022-12-01 18:59:25 +0100 <tomsmeding> mauke: topaz is the maker of AoC
2022-12-01 18:59:30 +0100 <mauke> oh, it's Eric Wastl's github account name. but the authorization page only lists him by full name
2022-12-01 18:59:46 +0100 <mauke> UX fail
2022-12-01 19:00:01 +0100coot(~coot@213.134.171.3) (Quit: coot)
2022-12-01 19:01:27 +0100use-value(~Thunderbi@2a00:23c6:8a03:2f01:75c2:a71f:beaa:29bf) (Quit: use-value)
2022-12-01 19:02:20 +0100pestilence(~alice@2601:c2:8300:a580:a9bd:4df1:6112:bb69)
2022-12-01 19:03:05 +0100pestilence(~alice@2601:c2:8300:a580:a9bd:4df1:6112:bb69) (Client Quit)
2022-12-01 19:03:23 +0100merijn(~merijn@86-86-29-250.fixed.kpn.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2022-12-01 19:03:38 +0100Lycurgus(~juan@user/Lycurgus) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2022-12-01 19:03:40 +0100jinsun__(~jinsun@user/jinsun)
2022-12-01 19:03:40 +0100jinsunGuest9413
2022-12-01 19:03:40 +0100Guest9413(~jinsun@user/jinsun) (Killed (cadmium.libera.chat (Nickname regained by services)))
2022-12-01 19:03:40 +0100jinsun__jinsun
2022-12-01 19:04:28 +0100acidjnk_new(~acidjnk@p200300d6e7137a26a0c5c39a40faf46b.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2022-12-01 19:07:39 +0100 <seydar> what do I do about hidden packages? I'm trying to use splitOn in Data.List.Split https://paste.tomsmeding.com/ksGCIefo
2022-12-01 19:07:48 +0100tzh(~tzh@c-24-21-73-154.hsd1.or.comcast.net)
2022-12-01 19:07:56 +0100 <iqubic> Add split to you cabal file, if you have one.
2022-12-01 19:08:34 +0100 <seydar> what if I'm not cool enough to have a cabal file
2022-12-01 19:08:51 +0100 <iqubic> How did you install your libraries?
2022-12-01 19:08:54 +0100moonsheep(~user@user/moonsheep)
2022-12-01 19:09:48 +0100 <geekosaur> if you're doing things old style then you need to use `-package split` on the ghc command line
2022-12-01 19:10:03 +0100 <geekosaur> but really, switch to using either cabal or stack, your life will be much easier
2022-12-01 19:10:14 +0100 <seydar> damn, so i need to have a cabal file
2022-12-01 19:10:21 +0100 <moonsheep> let me guess: today has been a split-heavy day?
2022-12-01 19:10:30 +0100 <moonsheep> question-wise
2022-12-01 19:10:47 +0100 <geekosaur> personally I'm a cabal type but there's a fair number of stack users here
2022-12-01 19:10:55 +0100Tuplanolla(~Tuplanoll@91-159-68-152.elisa-laajakaista.fi)
2022-12-01 19:10:57 +0100 <moonsheep> I couldn't recommend stack enough
2022-12-01 19:10:58 +0100 <seydar> moonsheep: at first I was doing things the amish way, writing haskell the way they did back in the day, but now I'm trying to easy myself into the 21st century
2022-12-01 19:11:14 +0100 <moonsheep> I mentioned that because of advent of code
2022-12-01 19:11:20 +0100 <geekosaur> moonsheep, I haven't looked but AoC just started and I would not be surprised if it called for split
2022-12-01 19:11:33 +0100 <moonsheep> yeah I ended up handrolling split
2022-12-01 19:11:35 +0100 <moonsheep> lost me like 2 minutes
2022-12-01 19:11:51 +0100 <moonsheep> also I should've loaded the input as text, not string that was a pita
2022-12-01 19:11:52 +0100 <iqubic> moonsheep, split is useful for parsing many of the common input formats Eric uses.
2022-12-01 19:11:56 +0100 <moonsheep> yeah
2022-12-01 19:12:55 +0100 <mauke> ok, maybe I'm cheating, but here's my first solution: https://paste.tomsmeding.com/rhxwvtrX
2022-12-01 19:14:19 +0100 <iqubic> I use Megaparsec to parse all of the inputs.
2022-12-01 19:14:20 +0100 <iqubic> https://paste.tomsmeding.com/clH0Wblh
2022-12-01 19:14:34 +0100 <moonsheep> isn't that a bit overkll?
2022-12-01 19:14:48 +0100 <moonsheep> well, except for the days that are about parsing of course (like that network packet one last year)
2022-12-01 19:15:08 +0100 <iqubic> moonsheep, yeah
2022-12-01 19:15:23 +0100 <iqubic> But I like to learn when doing advent of code.
2022-12-01 19:15:34 +0100 <moonsheep> ah
2022-12-01 19:15:48 +0100eggplantade(~Eggplanta@2600:1700:38c5:d800:e558:b5d6:f082:6f2c) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-12-01 19:15:59 +0100jargon(~jargon@174-22-207-8.phnx.qwest.net)
2022-12-01 19:16:01 +0100 <darkling> Me too. I only got to day 3 last year, but that's because I was doing something fairly silly. :)
2022-12-01 19:16:34 +0100 <darkling> (Z80 assembly on a SpecNext)
2022-12-01 19:17:10 +0100califax(~califax@user/califx) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-12-01 19:18:24 +0100 <iqubic> moonsheep: Do you remember which day the network packet day was?
2022-12-01 19:19:21 +0100 <juri_> hmm. i made a tiny change in my program, in pure haskell, and now get segmentation faults. WTFsprinkles.
2022-12-01 19:19:29 +0100 <seydar> how do you all manage all the days for AoC with cabal?
2022-12-01 19:19:31 +0100justache-justache
2022-12-01 19:19:46 +0100 <iqubic> Easily...
2022-12-01 19:20:23 +0100 <darkling> I'm just going for one directory a day. Filthy, but expedient. :)
2022-12-01 19:22:15 +0100 <seydar> yeah darkling that's what i'm trying to avoid. certainly expedient, but... the boilerplate required just to get a simple program to run -- and to do it daily? i must be missing something
2022-12-01 19:22:18 +0100califax(~califax@user/califx)
2022-12-01 19:22:20 +0100 <seydar> maybe i'm just missing a work ethic
2022-12-01 19:22:37 +0100 <darkling> Copy from yesterday...
2022-12-01 19:23:17 +0100 <moonsheep> iqubic: no but probably google does
2022-12-01 19:23:22 +0100 <moonsheep> https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Aadventofcode.com+packets
2022-12-01 19:23:26 +0100 <moonsheep> https://adventofcode.com/2021/day/16
2022-12-01 19:25:06 +0100 <freeside> erm. I'm trying to build HLS to match LTS 20.2, but I can't get any `ghcup compile hls` incantation to work, with any combination of versions. Is it me? I'm trying ghcup compile hls -v 1.8.0.0 --ghc 9.2.5
2022-12-01 19:25:24 +0100tromp(~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl)
2022-12-01 19:25:51 +0100 <yushyin> i have a common stanza for the days modules and a script to generate stubs for Day01-25
2022-12-01 19:26:29 +0100titibandit(~titibandi@xdsl-78-35-173-119.nc.de) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-12-01 19:26:38 +0100 <moonsheep> freeside: I don't think HLS works with GHC 9.2.5 yet
2022-12-01 19:26:42 +0100 <moonsheep> well not sure
2022-12-01 19:26:46 +0100moonsheep(~user@user/moonsheep) (ERC 5.4 (IRC client for GNU Emacs 28.2))
2022-12-01 19:26:56 +0100 <freeside> i can't get it to compile even with the versions it's supposed to work with
2022-12-01 19:28:21 +0100 <freeside> like, 9.2.4 is supposed to be hls-powered, according to both ghcup tui and https://haskell-language-server.readthedocs.io/en/latest/support/ghc-version-support.html
2022-12-01 19:28:27 +0100son0p(~ff@2604:3d08:5b7f:5540::37af)
2022-12-01 19:29:31 +0100 <mauke> my haskell solution: https://paste.tomsmeding.com/Oq7cTCSC
2022-12-01 19:30:14 +0100merijn(~merijn@c-001-001-017.client.esciencecenter.eduvpn.nl)
2022-12-01 19:30:23 +0100L29Ah(~L29Ah@wikipedia/L29Ah) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2022-12-01 19:30:48 +0100 <freeside> After searching the rest of the dependency tree exhaustively, these were the goals I've had most trouble fulfilling: haskell-language-server, hls-plugin-api, hls-stylish-haskell-plugin, haskell-language-server:stylishhaskell
2022-12-01 19:32:09 +0100 <freeside> seydar: i get all the libraries available by running as a #!stack script, https://github.com/mengwong/adventofcode/blob/bf8eeef5e7f403f01a666341febd43271f63a990/day01/aoc20…
2022-12-01 19:32:14 +0100wroathe(~wroathe@207-153-38-140.fttp.usinternet.com)
2022-12-01 19:32:14 +0100wroathe(~wroathe@207-153-38-140.fttp.usinternet.com) (Changing host)
2022-12-01 19:32:14 +0100wroathe(~wroathe@user/wroathe)
2022-12-01 19:33:09 +0100eggplantade(~Eggplanta@2600:1700:38c5:d800:e558:b5d6:f082:6f2c)
2022-12-01 19:33:10 +0100 <mauke> and from there you can get the second solution by adding (sum . take 3 . sortBy (flip compare))
2022-12-01 19:34:04 +0100hgolden(~hgolden@cpe-172-251-233-141.socal.res.rr.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-12-01 19:35:28 +0100hgolden(~hgolden@cpe-172-251-233-141.socal.res.rr.com)
2022-12-01 19:35:32 +0100mbuf(~Shakthi@49.204.116.34) (Quit: Leaving)
2022-12-01 19:36:23 +0100tromp(~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2022-12-01 19:36:41 +0100 <seydar> I am so close, but I have a type error: https://paste.tomsmeding.com/qVvN6eKU
2022-12-01 19:36:49 +0100 <seydar> I'm missing something obvious
2022-12-01 19:36:55 +0100 <seydar> Nobody answer, I just realized what I need to do
2022-12-01 19:37:47 +0100zant(~zant@62.96.232.178) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2022-12-01 19:37:49 +0100 <mauke> environment? what the
2022-12-01 19:38:29 +0100 <mauke> :t maximum
2022-12-01 19:38:30 +0100 <lambdabot> (Foldable t, Ord a) => t a -> a
2022-12-01 19:39:01 +0100 <mauke> > maximum [1, 10, 2, -4, 11, 2]
2022-12-01 19:39:02 +0100 <lambdabot> 11
2022-12-01 19:39:10 +0100codaraxis(~codaraxis@user/codaraxis) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2022-12-01 19:39:15 +0100 <mauke> @src print
2022-12-01 19:39:15 +0100 <lambdabot> print x = putStrLn (show x)
2022-12-01 19:39:39 +0100 <freeside> if we are allowed to go OG Unix Hacker, may I submit $ perl -000 -nle 'for (split /\n/) { $sum += $_ }; print $sum; $sum = 0' < input.txt | sort -n | tail -3 | paste -sd+ - | bc
2022-12-01 19:39:42 +0100 <freeside> lol
2022-12-01 19:40:09 +0100 <mauke> freeside: perl -MList::Util=max,sum0 -00 -wE 'say max map sum0(split /\n/), readline' < input
2022-12-01 19:40:17 +0100 <Vq> freeside: I don't think we should be allowed.
2022-12-01 19:40:19 +0100 <seydar> okay now I'm stumped: https://paste.tomsmeding.com/JUO3jSFG
2022-12-01 19:40:44 +0100 <freeside> what's that newfangled List::Util? we didn't have that in my day
2022-12-01 19:40:45 +0100 <geekosaur> freeside, I just got the same error trying to build for 9.2.5. I think that means it just isn't supported yet by some dependency.
2022-12-01 19:40:51 +0100 <yushyin> mauke: you are lukas mai, aren't you?
2022-12-01 19:41:04 +0100 <geekosaur> not sure if there's a way to pass --allow-newer via ghcup compile
2022-12-01 19:41:08 +0100 <mauke> freeside: oh yeah, that's brand new from 2002
2022-12-01 19:41:16 +0100 <freeside> haha
2022-12-01 19:41:21 +0100 <mauke> yushyin: why?
2022-12-01 19:41:33 +0100 <freeside> part of me wonders if Raku would be able to do it in like 12 characters
2022-12-01 19:41:38 +0100 <Vq> freeside: Is "split /\n/" for emulating awk?
2022-12-01 19:41:39 +0100 <yushyin> mauke: i think i remeber you from #perl on freenode
2022-12-01 19:42:03 +0100 <yushyin> your nick looks familiar
2022-12-01 19:42:06 +0100wootehfoot(~wootehfoo@user/wootehfoot)
2022-12-01 19:42:16 +0100 <mauke> yeah :-)
2022-12-01 19:42:43 +0100 <freeside> geekosaur: i can't even get it to build for 9.2.4 or any other version it's supposed to support, so i feel like something is wrong more generally.
2022-12-01 19:42:45 +0100 <mauke> :t return
2022-12-01 19:42:45 +0100 <lambdabot> Monad m => a -> m a
2022-12-01 19:42:48 +0100 <mauke> seydar: ^
2022-12-01 19:43:10 +0100 <freeside> Vq: the split /\n/ operates against after the -000 takes effect ... that does the paragraph separation
2022-12-01 19:43:28 +0100 <yushyin> mauke: i used to use some of your perl libraries ;)
2022-12-01 19:43:38 +0100 <geekosaur> I've built hls before so unless this is a 1.8.0.0 bug (last time I did it is 1.7.0.0) I doubt it
2022-12-01 19:43:43 +0100 <mauke> cool
2022-12-01 19:43:48 +0100 <freeside> i shall try 1.7.0.0
2022-12-01 19:44:02 +0100 <geekosaur> figured out how to pass --allow-newer, seems to be building for me now
2022-12-01 19:44:16 +0100werneta(~werneta@70-142-214-115.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net)
2022-12-01 19:44:52 +0100 <seydar> mauke: ugh. thank you
2022-12-01 19:45:07 +0100 <mauke> freeside: for the second one, perl -MList::Util=sum0 -00 -wE 'say sum0 +(sort { $b <=> $a } map sum0(split /\n/), readline)[0 .. 2]' < input
2022-12-01 19:45:13 +0100 <geekosaur> bvut it's building a lot of stuff since I switched to cabal HEAD and XDG mode so everything needs to be rebuilt
2022-12-01 19:45:40 +0100 <mauke> seydar: and have a look at 'maximum' and 'print' if you want to shorten your code slightly
2022-12-01 19:47:36 +0100 <seydar> mauke: good catch -- updated those too
2022-12-01 19:47:51 +0100 <freeside> sometimes you just wanna pipe output to sort(1)
2022-12-01 19:48:37 +0100 <freeside> geekosaur: yes, mine is building too now, thank you. https://www.haskell.org/ghcup/guide/#hls seems severely in need of a revision
2022-12-01 19:49:55 +0100wootehfoot(~wootehfoo@user/wootehfoot) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2022-12-01 19:50:02 +0100seydar(~seydar@154-27-113-252.starry-inc.net) (Quit: leaving)
2022-12-01 19:52:05 +0100wroathe(~wroathe@user/wroathe) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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2022-12-01 19:59:30 +0100 <freeside> mauke: shrank a little further, perl -MList::Util=sum0 -00 -nE 'say sum0 split' | tail -1
2022-12-01 19:59:44 +0100 <freeside> er, sort | tail -1
2022-12-01 19:59:59 +0100opticblast(~Thunderbi@secure-165.caltech.edu) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2022-12-01 20:03:32 +0100merijn(~merijn@c-001-001-017.client.esciencecenter.eduvpn.nl) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2022-12-01 20:05:14 +0100 <freeside> oof. Error: cabal: Failed to build primitive-unlifted-1.0.0.0 (which is required by exe:haskell-language-server from haskell-language-server-1.8.0.0
2022-12-01 20:05:23 +0100 <freeside> does XDG mode help fix that?
2022-12-01 20:05:36 +0100 <geekosaur> XDG just changes paths
2022-12-01 20:05:41 +0100 <freeside> reading
2022-12-01 20:06:06 +0100 <freeside> ok. I'm trying to view the build log but the build log is squished into like 6 lines of blue scroll
2022-12-01 20:06:07 +0100 <geekosaur> I just failed with that one as well 😞
2022-12-01 20:07:24 +0100 <freeside> ...glad to hear it's not just me...
2022-12-01 20:08:10 +0100eggplantade(~Eggplanta@2600:1700:38c5:d800:e558:b5d6:f082:6f2c) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-12-01 20:08:32 +0100 <freeside> does AoC generate different input data files for different users?
2022-12-01 20:09:06 +0100 <freeside> surely they must
2022-12-01 20:10:44 +0100opticblast(~Thunderbi@secure-165.caltech.edu)
2022-12-01 20:10:56 +0100 <mauke> last three digits of my second solution: 041
2022-12-01 20:11:37 +0100 <mauke> first number in input: 7896
2022-12-01 20:12:54 +0100 <freeside> yeah, everybody gets a different input file, then, so no cheating
2022-12-01 20:12:59 +0100raehik(~raehik@cpc95906-rdng25-2-0-cust156.15-3.cable.virginm.net) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2022-12-01 20:13:07 +0100thyriaen(~thyriaen@2a01:aea0:dd4:470d:6245:cbff:fe9f:48b1) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-12-01 20:13:07 +0100 <freeside> my last 3 digits are 172
2022-12-01 20:14:10 +0100money(~money@pool-100-11-18-203.phlapa.fios.verizon.net)
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2022-12-01 20:15:37 +0100 <freeside> heh, matt might went OG Unix too. https://github.com/mattmight/advent-of-code-2022/blob/main/day-1/calorie-count.awk
2022-12-01 20:17:43 +0100tromp(~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl)
2022-12-01 20:18:17 +0100wroathe(~wroathe@207-153-38-140.fttp.usinternet.com)
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2022-12-01 20:24:06 +0100 <freeside> well, i'm giving up on HLS for tonight, but this is really unsatisfactory. https://raw.githubusercontent.com/haskell/ghcup-metadata/master/ghcup-0.0.7.yaml has a section for 9.2.5 right there.
2022-12-01 20:24:46 +0100azimut(~azimut@gateway/tor-sasl/azimut)
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2022-12-01 20:37:06 +0100 <geekosaur> primitive-unlifted sounds like the sort of thing that wouldn't be very portable, tbh
2022-12-01 20:37:08 +0100coot(~coot@2a02:a310:e241:1b00:ec1a:e9df:79ac:66ba)
2022-12-01 20:37:11 +0100 <geekosaur> probably just have to wait
2022-12-01 20:38:50 +0100lortabac(~lortabac@2a01:e0a:541:b8f0:7a6d:77a5:de0b:541)
2022-12-01 20:40:18 +0100tromp(~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2022-12-01 20:40:40 +0100freeside_(~mengwong@103.252.202.193)
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2022-12-01 20:40:54 +0100freeside_freeside
2022-12-01 20:41:43 +0100 <mauke> if it were portable, you could probably lift it
2022-12-01 20:45:20 +0100eggplantade(~Eggplanta@104-55-37-220.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
2022-12-01 20:46:55 +0100Problem-Haver(~Problem-H@185.234.165.56) (Quit: Client closed)
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2022-12-01 20:48:27 +0100gurkenglas(~gurkengla@p548ac72e.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2022-12-01 20:49:53 +0100tromp(~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl)
2022-12-01 20:52:53 +0100L29Ah(~L29Ah@wikipedia/L29Ah)
2022-12-01 20:53:39 +0100Scraeling(~Username@user/scraeling) (Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com))
2022-12-01 20:55:01 +0100 <geekosaur> fwiw, the log says RuntimeRep(UnliftedRep) is not in GHC.Exts. and in fact there is no such constructor as of 9.2.5, so primitive-unlifted will need some work for 9.2.5
2022-12-01 20:56:08 +0100 <geekosaur> freeside ^^
2022-12-01 20:56:53 +0100azimut(~azimut@gateway/tor-sasl/azimut) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-12-01 20:57:50 +0100Lycurgus(~juan@user/Lycurgus) (Quit: Exeunt https://tinyurl.com/4m8d4kd5)
2022-12-01 20:58:09 +0100azimut(~azimut@gateway/tor-sasl/azimut)
2022-12-01 20:58:52 +0100Guest75(~Guest75@178.141.153.191)
2022-12-01 21:00:48 +0100raehik(~raehik@cpc95906-rdng25-2-0-cust156.15-3.cable.virginm.net)
2022-12-01 21:00:48 +0100merijn(~merijn@c-001-001-017.client.esciencecenter.eduvpn.nl)
2022-12-01 21:03:19 +0100 <freeside> oy vey
2022-12-01 21:08:43 +0100jmdaemon(~jmdaemon@user/jmdaemon)
2022-12-01 21:09:39 +0100yuribarros(~yuribarro@2804:14c:65e4:865c::1000) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-12-01 21:14:12 +0100 <geekosaur> looks unmaintained, last commit almost a year ago
2022-12-01 21:15:31 +0100EvanR(~EvanR@user/evanr) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-12-01 21:15:47 +0100 <ChaiTRex> Is there some way to log the input and output of a GHCi session to a text file?
2022-12-01 21:15:50 +0100EvanR(~EvanR@user/evanr)
2022-12-01 21:16:43 +0100 <geekosaur> aside from something generic like script? no
2022-12-01 21:17:12 +0100freeside(~mengwong@103.252.202.193) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2022-12-01 21:18:12 +0100 <ChaiTRex> OK, thanks.
2022-12-01 21:21:37 +0100 <ChaiTRex> script works nicely. Thanks again.
2022-12-01 21:27:12 +0100freeside(~mengwong@103.252.202.193)
2022-12-01 21:32:29 +0100gurkenglas(~gurkengla@p548ac72e.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
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2022-12-01 21:39:37 +0100cjay-cjay
2022-12-01 21:41:42 +0100 <monochrom> I tell my terminal emulator to have like 1000 lines of scrollback, so I would just need copy-paste.
2022-12-01 21:42:39 +0100 <monochrom> Only once in a while insufficient for two runs of LaTeX on a really large file. :)
2022-12-01 21:45:08 +0100accord(uid568320@id-568320.hampstead.irccloud.com)
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2022-12-01 22:18:57 +0100sonny(~sonny@bras-base-london142vw-grc-28-76-71-155-9.dsl.bell.ca)
2022-12-01 22:19:06 +0100 <sonny> What are interfaces called in haskell?
2022-12-01 22:19:21 +0100 <dsal> What does "interface" mean to you?
2022-12-01 22:20:34 +0100 <geekosaur> I would very strongly suggest you not try to approach Haskell as an object oriented language
2022-12-01 22:21:33 +0100 <sonny> dsal java interface
2022-12-01 22:21:39 +0100 <sonny> geekosaur I'm just curious
2022-12-01 22:21:47 +0100 <dminuoso> sonny: we dont have a directly corresponding mechanism.
2022-12-01 22:21:55 +0100 <mauke> haskell doesn't have java interfaces
2022-12-01 22:21:57 +0100 <dsal> Languages (programming and human) don't always have concepts that map 1:1 between them.
2022-12-01 22:22:01 +0100 <dminuoso> There's two approaches that fit in that general area, which is typeclasses and just data types.
2022-12-01 22:22:13 +0100 <mauke> and existential dread
2022-12-01 22:22:17 +0100 <dminuoso> Typeclasses allow a bit of subtyping in that respect, but they are not commonly used for interface style programming
2022-12-01 22:22:29 +0100 <sonny> eli5 type classes
2022-12-01 22:22:43 +0100 <dsal> I don't know many five year old programmers.
2022-12-01 22:22:47 +0100 <dminuoso> More commonly you would just define a data type say `data Formatter = Formatter { ... }` and include some functions as fields that specify a kind of interface.
2022-12-01 22:22:59 +0100 <dminuoso> And then functions using that interface would just demand a Formatter as an argument `Formatter -> ...`
2022-12-01 22:23:16 +0100 <sonny> I see
2022-12-01 22:23:32 +0100 <dsal> A better approach is "I'm trying to solve a problem and I'm stuck on this part. How should I approach it in Haskell?"
2022-12-01 22:23:45 +0100 <sonny> so I guess the concept is not as important because you can use functions at every level
2022-12-01 22:24:03 +0100 <dsal> The concept isn't important because we're not transliterating java code.
2022-12-01 22:24:05 +0100 <sonny> dsal I'm not solving anything ... just wondering
2022-12-01 22:24:31 +0100 <dminuoso> sonny: typeclasses superficially look like interfaces, in that you can define it and a list of what we call methods (constituents of that interface), and then you can declare an instance of a type for that typeclass (which corresponds to implementing an interface for a given type)
2022-12-01 22:24:53 +0100 <dminuoso> and each instance must then implement each method of that typeclass
2022-12-01 22:25:01 +0100 <sonny> are they like ML modules?
2022-12-01 22:25:04 +0100 <dminuoso> not at all
2022-12-01 22:25:06 +0100 <mauke> if you wanted to learn about type classes by example, I'd probably recommend this order: Show, Eq/Ord, Read/Enum, Bounded, Functor
2022-12-01 22:25:44 +0100 <sonny> dminuoso no because they don't take parameters or do I misunderstand both concepts?
2022-12-01 22:25:50 +0100 <Rembane> sonny: Typeclasses are more like dictionaries/maps with fancy syntax
2022-12-01 22:25:52 +0100 <dminuoso> sonny: oh hold on, I was a bit too hasty, I misread that as ML functor for some reason.
2022-12-01 22:25:59 +0100 <Rembane> sonny: They do ad hoc polymorphism quite well.
2022-12-01 22:26:11 +0100 <sonny> interesting
2022-12-01 22:26:23 +0100 <mauke> Show is conceptually close to a java interface; the others add more and more "exotic" features
2022-12-01 22:26:24 +0100 <dminuoso> sonny: what do you mean by ML module exactly?
2022-12-01 22:26:28 +0100gmg(~user@user/gehmehgeh)
2022-12-01 22:26:53 +0100codaraxis(~codaraxis@user/codaraxis)
2022-12-01 22:26:56 +0100 <sonny> I mean it literally, I assumed you'd all be familiar with ML
2022-12-01 22:27:05 +0100 <dsal> Typeclasses are generally used to express *constraints* on things. "I can take any type as long as it knows how to do X."
2022-12-01 22:27:23 +0100codaraxis(~codaraxis@user/codaraxis) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-12-01 22:27:36 +0100 <sonny> it'd be hard for me to explain otherwise
2022-12-01 22:27:39 +0100 <dminuoso> sonny: okay then no, they are very much unlike from each other
2022-12-01 22:27:43 +0100 <sonny> ok
2022-12-01 22:28:06 +0100 <sonny> dsal sounds like dependent types
2022-12-01 22:28:16 +0100 <dminuoso> on a superficial level typeclasses and interfaces look very similar.
2022-12-01 22:28:28 +0100 <dsal> Dependent types are another thing.
2022-12-01 22:28:31 +0100 <dsal> :t show
2022-12-01 22:28:32 +0100 <lambdabot> Show a => a -> String
2022-12-01 22:28:37 +0100 <mauke> class Show a where { show :: a -> String }
2022-12-01 22:28:40 +0100 <dminuoso> sonny: but the thing is, we have subtyping wired into that.
2022-12-01 22:28:42 +0100 <mauke> (simplified)
2022-12-01 22:29:00 +0100 <dminuoso> sonny: so we have a typeclass called Eq, whose methods are == and /=, so its the tyepclass of types that can be compared
2022-12-01 22:29:02 +0100 <dsal> `show` can convert any `a` to a `String` as long as the `a` has a `Show` instance.
2022-12-01 22:29:07 +0100 <Rembane> sonny: If you know ML by heart this paper might be helpful: https://people.csail.mit.edu/dnj/teaching/6898/papers/wadler88.pdf
2022-12-01 22:29:20 +0100 <dminuoso> But we also have `class Eq a => Ord a ...` which requires (but also implies) Eq
2022-12-01 22:29:30 +0100 <sonny> not by heart but that does look good, thanks
2022-12-01 22:29:44 +0100 <mauke> ooh, the classics
2022-12-01 22:31:04 +0100freeside(~mengwong@103.252.202.193) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2022-12-01 22:31:12 +0100 <mauke> what's the type of (=) in ocaml nowadays? still 'a -> 'a -> bool?
2022-12-01 22:32:15 +0100 <dminuoso> If memory serves right, typeclasses were originally introduced as a way to deal with overloading numbers
2022-12-01 22:32:48 +0100 <dsal> It makes sense that `Num` would be old because it feels like a lot of learning can come from that.
2022-12-01 22:32:53 +0100wootehfoot(~wootehfoo@user/wootehfoot)
2022-12-01 22:34:41 +0100 <dminuoso> Its also curious that Num happens to be one of the things where GHC does not conform to Haskell2010.
2022-12-01 22:34:55 +0100 <dminuoso> Because Haskel2010 mandates class (Eq a, Show a) => Num a
2022-12-01 22:35:27 +0100 <Rembane> dminuoso: Is Num a superclass to Floating?
2022-12-01 22:35:58 +0100 <dminuoso> Yes, via Fractional
2022-12-01 22:36:43 +0100 <Rembane> Cool, then I can't see how Eq could be needed for Num.
2022-12-01 22:36:59 +0100 <mauke> the problem with (Eq a, Show a) => Num a is that it interferes with making every monad an instance of Num
2022-12-01 22:37:29 +0100 <geekosaur> Rembane, mostly so Num literals can be treated as patterns
2022-12-01 22:37:44 +0100 <Rembane> geekosaur: That's a very good reason.
2022-12-01 22:38:30 +0100 <mauke> you can still treat them as patterns (just add an Eq constraint while type checking), no?
2022-12-01 22:38:50 +0100 <geekosaur> yep, but it no longer "just works", you need the constraint
2022-12-01 22:38:58 +0100money(~money@pool-100-11-18-203.phlapa.fios.verizon.net)
2022-12-01 22:39:22 +0100moneyGuest5066
2022-12-01 22:39:38 +0100 <mauke> I mean, you'd desugar 'foo 42' to 'foo x | x == 42' and any relevant constraints fall out automatically
2022-12-01 22:39:53 +0100Guest5066(~money@pool-100-11-18-203.phlapa.fios.verizon.net) (Client Quit)
2022-12-01 22:39:57 +0100 <mauke> if you can add (Num a), you can add (Eq a)
2022-12-01 22:40:39 +0100gurkenglas(~gurkengla@p548ac72e.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
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2022-12-01 22:44:09 +0100jumper149(~jumper149@base.felixspringer.xyz)
2022-12-01 22:44:45 +0100freeside(~mengwong@103.252.202.193)
2022-12-01 22:44:46 +0100jumper149(~jumper149@base.felixspringer.xyz) (Client Quit)
2022-12-01 22:45:33 +0100jumper149(~jumper149@base.felixspringer.xyz)
2022-12-01 22:46:09 +0100jumper149(~jumper149@base.felixspringer.xyz) (Client Quit)
2022-12-01 22:46:13 +0100rustisafungus(~segfaultf@23-93-74-212.fiber.dynamic.sonic.net)
2022-12-01 22:46:58 +0100 <rustisafungus> so this is more of a computational math question so feel free to tell me to take a hike, but i think this has enough of a computer science/research flavor that i thought #haskell was a good place to ask:
2022-12-01 22:47:06 +0100azimut(~azimut@gateway/tor-sasl/azimut) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-12-01 22:47:41 +0100 <rustisafungus> let's say that i am trying to generate samples from a high dimensional distribution, such as a 1 million dimensional distribution
2022-12-01 22:48:16 +0100azimut(~azimut@gateway/tor-sasl/azimut)
2022-12-01 22:48:19 +0100 <rustisafungus> of course, i can generate samples where each dimension is reasonably statistically independent using a prng
2022-12-01 22:48:25 +0100 <dminuoso> mauke: the real problem is that there's some things like infinite sequences you couldnt have a Num instance of
2022-12-01 22:48:48 +0100eggplantade(~Eggplanta@2600:1700:38c5:d800:e558:b5d6:f082:6f2c)
2022-12-01 22:48:54 +0100 <rustisafungus> my question is this: i would like to generate a "bunch" of other distributions
2022-12-01 22:49:30 +0100 <rustisafungus> that "bunch" need not be a rigorous construct but ought to emphasize varying levels and types of correlations or relationships between my one million dimensions
2022-12-01 22:51:39 +0100 <rustisafungus> so my question is, is there a nice way of generating a "bunch" of distributions? the precise dimension need not be 1 million, it could also be one thousand or somesuch, but it does need to be a fairly substantial number (probably at least 100)
2022-12-01 22:51:57 +0100 <rustisafungus> vaguely speaking this would be like quickcheck for distributions
2022-12-01 22:51:59 +0100sonny(~sonny@bras-base-london142vw-grc-28-76-71-155-9.dsl.bell.ca) (Quit: Client closed)
2022-12-01 22:53:02 +0100 <darkling> Work out what kind of variations you want to do, and then ring the changes. So, for example, are they linear in each dimension, or do some dimensions have other statistical distributions?
2022-12-01 22:53:17 +0100eggplantade(~Eggplanta@2600:1700:38c5:d800:e558:b5d6:f082:6f2c) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2022-12-01 22:53:29 +0100 <darkling> (Say, triangular, bitriangular, binomial, beta distribution...)
2022-12-01 22:53:30 +0100 <rustisafungus> linear would be fairly easy, i could pick a random ellipse or something and sample from that
2022-12-01 22:53:45 +0100 <rustisafungus> but i am thinking "lots of varying and complex relationships"
2022-12-01 22:54:03 +0100 <darkling> Then you can say each dimension has the distribution selected randomly (with some weighting).
2022-12-01 22:54:08 +0100 <dminuoso> geekosaur: I think its not a big downside. It becomes very hard to come up with a way where the lack of Eq will hinder you.
2022-12-01 22:54:20 +0100 <dminuoso> Since you can just add Eq anyway
2022-12-01 22:54:28 +0100 <rustisafungus> as i think about this, i am thinking that perhaps some kind of random graph might be the way to go?
2022-12-01 22:54:55 +0100 <rustisafungus> because i might want there to sometimes be independent dimensions, then some might have correlations between pairs, some triplets, and so on, and some a complex tangling of things
2022-12-01 22:54:57 +0100 <darkling> Similarly, do you want variables correlated pairwise? More variables correlated? Pick the number of correlations and the correlated variables randomly...
2022-12-01 22:55:23 +0100 <darkling> Then pick you rmodel for the correlation: is it exact? exact with errors?
2022-12-01 22:55:47 +0100 <rustisafungus> you make a good point to allow for exact relationships but
2022-12-01 22:55:49 +0100 <geekosaur> dminuoso, I didn't claim it was a big downside, and in fact ghc havoing removed it with little in the way of subsequent update demonstrates it
2022-12-01 22:55:51 +0100 <geekosaur> snot
2022-12-01 22:55:58 +0100 <rustisafungus> mostly i mean noisy relationships
2022-12-01 22:56:11 +0100 <darkling> Basically, first decide what kind of features you want to see, then work out how to generate things with those features.
2022-12-01 22:56:22 +0100gurkenglas(~gurkengla@p548ac72e.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2022-12-01 22:56:23 +0100 <geekosaur> *it's not
2022-12-01 22:56:35 +0100 <dminuoso> geekosaur: Absolutely. Im just contemplating about the consequences.
2022-12-01 22:56:52 +0100 <geekosaur> s/update/upset/
2022-12-01 22:57:04 +0100 <geekosaur> hm, I kinda didn't get that out right 🙂
2022-12-01 22:57:12 +0100 <dminuoso> The only way this will ever hurt you, is if you are being given a Num as an existential as part of an interface.
2022-12-01 22:57:45 +0100 <dminuoso> Some kind of `f :: (exists e. Num e *> e -> a) -> a`
2022-12-01 22:58:02 +0100sonny(~sonny@bras-base-london142vw-grc-28-76-71-155-9.dsl.bell.ca)
2022-12-01 22:58:15 +0100 <dminuoso> And you would then have to use this with the intent of using Show or Eq.
2022-12-01 22:58:17 +0100 <geekosaur> someone (Bird?) complained about having to revise a Haskell book on short notice, I think
2022-12-01 22:58:35 +0100 <dminuoso> Oh heh. There's that side of things :)
2022-12-01 22:58:49 +0100 <rustisafungus> darkling: but,... is there a name for what i select and then how i generate the sample?
2022-12-01 22:59:33 +0100 <darkling> Not that I've ever met. When I've needed to do it, I just do it. :)
2022-12-01 22:59:44 +0100 <rustisafungus> darkling: oh, so you've done this before?
2022-12-01 23:00:07 +0100 <darkling> A few times.
2022-12-01 23:00:42 +0100 <rustisafungus> one thing i am puzzled by is that if i have a high dimensional distribution which i specify it might become difficult to sample from
2022-12-01 23:00:48 +0100merijn(~merijn@c-001-001-017.client.esciencecenter.eduvpn.nl)
2022-12-01 23:00:59 +0100 <rustisafungus> so maybe it's better to create a tree and specify some variables which "cause" others...?
2022-12-01 23:01:27 +0100 <rustisafungus> so say, 100 out of the million variables are truly independent, and then i mix and match those plus random noise to make the other variables
2022-12-01 23:01:56 +0100 <darkling> Yeah, there's plenty of approaches you can take. It depends on what you want the data you generate to look like.
2022-12-01 23:02:03 +0100 <rustisafungus> is there a name for this process?
2022-12-01 23:02:35 +0100 <darkling> Like I said, I've not met a name for it. It's not entirely my core skill-set.
2022-12-01 23:02:54 +0100 <rustisafungus> ok
2022-12-01 23:04:12 +0100FinnElija(~finn_elij@user/finn-elija/x-0085643) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-12-01 23:05:11 +0100 <darkling> I don't think there's a good way of just saying "make me an interesting and varied data set". You have to have a good idea of what properties you want it to have.
2022-12-01 23:07:37 +0100FinnElija(~finn_elij@user/finn-elija/x-0085643)
2022-12-01 23:08:48 +0100takuan(~takuan@178-116-218-225.access.telenet.be) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-12-01 23:09:26 +0100 <monochrom> "Be the first one to rate it and give it a high-brow name!"
2022-12-01 23:09:33 +0100 <rustisafungus> haha
2022-12-01 23:13:44 +0100 <jackdk> "synthetic data"?
2022-12-01 23:14:32 +0100 <rustisafungus> jackdk: talking to me?
2022-12-01 23:15:06 +0100 <jackdk> nah, darkling . I think I've heard that term bandied about, but very far outside my skillset too
2022-12-01 23:15:24 +0100 <monochrom> But after you strip "I need a sample of a 100-dimension internally-dependent distribution" of the "it's oh so higher-dimensional and oh so internally-dependent" façade, it's just "I need 100 random numbers" and simply known as "probabilistic programming" or even more traditionally "randomized algorithms".
2022-12-01 23:15:45 +0100 <rustisafungus> right, so what i need is something like a "random probabilistic program"
2022-12-01 23:16:08 +0100 <rustisafungus> but it need not be "uniform" in any theoretical sense, just jumbled and varied
2022-12-01 23:16:18 +0100 <monochrom> Consult game programmers. They do that all the time.
2022-12-01 23:17:05 +0100 <rustisafungus> oh, ok,... and... ? what do they do?
2022-12-01 23:17:09 +0100ezzieyguywuf(~Unknown@user/ezzieyguywuf)
2022-12-01 23:17:16 +0100sonny(~sonny@bras-base-london142vw-grc-28-76-71-155-9.dsl.bell.ca) ()
2022-12-01 23:17:38 +0100 <monochrom> Use PRNG to control NPC actions?
2022-12-01 23:17:53 +0100azimut(~azimut@gateway/tor-sasl/azimut) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2022-12-01 23:18:11 +0100 <rustisafungus> right but what i am asking for is more like that the NPCs need to have "random" interactions
2022-12-01 23:18:22 +0100 <rustisafungus> some are part of groups, others are independent, and soforth
2022-12-01 23:18:29 +0100 <monochrom> And the n+1st random number can depend on the previous n random numbers?
2022-12-01 23:18:39 +0100 <rustisafungus> that's one way to do it
2022-12-01 23:18:44 +0100 <geekosaur> that's gonna be less random numbers than a good range of interactions and how to suit them to player responses
2022-12-01 23:19:13 +0100 <geekosaur> which is more of an AI question than a random numbers question
2022-12-01 23:19:36 +0100azimut(~azimut@gateway/tor-sasl/azimut)
2022-12-01 23:19:37 +0100 <rustisafungus> i beg to differ, i consider it a "really practical statistics and computing" question
2022-12-01 23:20:07 +0100 <rustisafungus> for example someone might have written xgboost and wants to make "random" relationships between variables to test that xgboost can identify them with reasonable accuracy
2022-12-01 23:20:13 +0100 <geekosaur> what you consider it and what a player faced with your result consider it are likely to differ
2022-12-01 23:20:49 +0100yuribarros(~yuribarro@2804:14c:65e4:865c::1000)
2022-12-01 23:21:26 +0100 <monochrom> Sure, for an NPC the n+1st random number depends on both the previous n random numbers and a large chunk of the rest of the current game state. Which strengthens my point because it proves that game programmers have already done something even more general and theoretically "harder".
2022-12-01 23:21:34 +0100 <darkling> I guess the procedural generation people probably have some ideas, but without knowing what you're actually intending to do with this output, it's very hard to go any further than "work out what properties you want the output to have", followed by "write something that has those properties"
2022-12-01 23:21:52 +0100 <monochrom> So now if you say you only depend on the previous n random numbers and nothing else, it's comparatively trivia.
2022-12-01 23:21:54 +0100 <rustisafungus> darkling: testing an xgboost implementation would be a great example of what i am doing
2022-12-01 23:21:57 +0100bitdex(~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex)
2022-12-01 23:22:08 +0100 <rustisafungus> but that the data must be novel rather than part of an existing dataset
2022-12-01 23:22:22 +0100 <monochrom> It's why I made a stab at "be the first to give it a high-brow name".
2022-12-01 23:22:32 +0100 <darkling> I don't know what xgboost is.
2022-12-01 23:22:41 +0100 <darkling> (And it doesn't really matter that I don't)
2022-12-01 23:23:08 +0100 <rustisafungus> darkling: xgboost is the answer to 80% of prediction problems where a simple linear model is not enough
2022-12-01 23:23:26 +0100 <rustisafungus> it's actually really useful to know about :-)
2022-12-01 23:23:44 +0100 <rustisafungus> for example only recently did uber move away from xgboost for their ML modeling systems
2022-12-01 23:23:53 +0100 <rustisafungus> for important things like predicting arrival times etc
2022-12-01 23:24:24 +0100 <ksu> rustisafungus: whatever you do you are going to barely scratch the problem space, unless it is very symmetric
2022-12-01 23:25:17 +0100 <ksu> and to know what you should do if it is very symmetric you need to analyze its symmetries
2022-12-01 23:26:38 +0100fockerize(~finn@roc37-h01-176-170-197-243.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr)
2022-12-01 23:27:35 +0100 <darkling> You need to get into specifics at this point rather than just talking about generalised multidimensional distributions.
2022-12-01 23:29:22 +0100 <darkling> Maybe once you've generated a few specific distributions modelling some behaviour you've seen (or, ab initio, have thought up), you can start thinking about the commonalities that you used to generate them. That might lead you to a framework or DSL to specify them to make it easier to generate things in the general case, but start with something conrete.
2022-12-01 23:30:53 +0100rustisafungus(~segfaultf@23-93-74-212.fiber.dynamic.sonic.net) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2022-12-01 23:31:15 +0100Erutuon(~Erutuon@user/erutuon)
2022-12-01 23:32:05 +0100 <darkling> Anyway, it's at least half-past bedtime. G'night.
2022-12-01 23:34:08 +0100merijn(~merijn@c-001-001-017.client.esciencecenter.eduvpn.nl) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2022-12-01 23:39:01 +0100mvk(~mvk@2607:fea8:5ce3:8500::efb)
2022-12-01 23:39:12 +0100rustisafungus(~segfaultf@23-93-74-212.fiber.dynamic.sonic.net)
2022-12-01 23:40:36 +0100 <rustisafungus> ksu: care to elaborate?
2022-12-01 23:40:54 +0100abrar(~abrar@static-108-2-152-54.phlapa.fios.verizon.net) (Quit: WeeChat 3.5)
2022-12-01 23:40:56 +0100mvk(~mvk@2607:fea8:5ce3:8500::efb) (Client Quit)
2022-12-01 23:41:25 +0100 <rustisafungus> i was thinking about generating "random" sat instances as a method of specifying a high dimensional distribution
2022-12-01 23:41:40 +0100 <rustisafungus> over binary variables in that case
2022-12-01 23:41:47 +0100abrar(~abrar@static-108-2-152-54.phlapa.fios.verizon.net)
2022-12-01 23:41:56 +0100 <rustisafungus> i'm not quite sure how to sample from that however
2022-12-01 23:48:46 +0100freeside(~mengwong@103.252.202.193) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2022-12-01 23:50:04 +0100pwug(~pwug@user/pwug) (Quit: Leaving)
2022-12-01 23:51:48 +0100 <rustisafungus> so one question is, can i (at least some of the time) map a satisfiability problem onto a fairly efficient map from coin flip outcomes to a specific valid assignment (without rejetion sampling, mcmc etc)
2022-12-01 23:55:22 +0100 <monochrom> What if the satisfiability problem instance is unsatisfiable?
2022-12-01 23:55:38 +0100 <rustisafungus> then you cant sample from it
2022-12-01 23:56:02 +0100 <rustisafungus> invalid distribution because no assignment is satisfactory
2022-12-01 23:57:27 +0100__monty__(~toonn@user/toonn) (Quit: leaving)
2022-12-01 23:57:35 +0100freeside(~mengwong@103.252.202.193)
2022-12-01 23:58:58 +0100tromp(~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)