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2022/09/26

2022-09-26 00:00:11 +0200litharge(litharge@libera/bot/litharge) (*.net *.split)
2022-09-26 00:03:57 +0200 <c_wraith> Guest53: that depends *entirely* on what the quasiquoter does. There is no standard interpolation mechanism for quasiquotes
2022-09-26 00:04:34 +0200__monty__(~toonn@user/toonn) (Quit: leaving)
2022-09-26 00:07:02 +0200 <Guest53> So it's probably better to compute the value in a "where x = expr" and then simply do "#{x}"
2022-09-26 00:08:08 +0200 <sm> IIRC the shamlet parser is not as powerful as the normal haskell parser. Pretty sure it's separately implemented, so not as powerful
2022-09-26 00:09:24 +0200 <sm> but isn't that precedence wrong ? does it work in regular haskell ?
2022-09-26 00:11:11 +0200michalz(~michalz@185.246.207.217) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-09-26 00:13:20 +0200 <Guest53> Yes, that works. reverse and fmap toUpper are both functions from String to String and "foo" is a String. I'll just put the things I want to interpolate in variables and use the variables with the interpolation syntax.
2022-09-26 00:18:34 +0200tromp(~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2022-09-26 00:18:58 +0200rockymarine(~rocky@user/rockymarine) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2022-09-26 00:20:45 +0200rockymarine(~rocky@user/rockymarine)
2022-09-26 00:24:24 +0200nate3(~nate@98.45.169.16) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2022-09-26 00:25:44 +0200rockymarine(~rocky@user/rockymarine) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2022-09-26 00:26:24 +0200acidjnk(~acidjnk@p200300d6e7137a29b83d7bde232748fa.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2022-09-26 00:30:03 +0200rockymarine(~rocky@user/rockymarine)
2022-09-26 00:34:01 +0200sudden(~cat@user/sudden) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2022-09-26 00:34:58 +0200sudden(~cat@user/sudden)
2022-09-26 00:38:47 +0200matthewmosior(~matthewmo@37.19.200.26) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2022-09-26 00:48:56 +0200eggplantade(~Eggplanta@108-201-191-115.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-09-26 00:50:10 +0200nate3(~nate@98.45.169.16)
2022-09-26 00:50:58 +0200matthewmosior(~matthewmo@37.19.200.26)
2022-09-26 00:55:23 +0200matthewmosior(~matthewmo@37.19.200.26) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2022-09-26 00:59:20 +0200 <monochrom> > (reverse $ fmap toUpper "foo", reverse $ fmap toUpper $ "foo", reverse . fmap toUpper $ "foo")
2022-09-26 00:59:21 +0200 <lambdabot> ("OOF","OOF","OOF")
2022-09-26 01:00:25 +0200 <EvanR> I'm editing a README.md and as soon as I put italic markers (*) my terminal font went italic. My brain just exploded
2022-09-26 01:00:52 +0200 <monochrom> That's some terminal. :)
2022-09-26 01:00:52 +0200 <EvanR> what's next, reaction memes
2022-09-26 01:01:30 +0200nate3(~nate@98.45.169.16) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2022-09-26 01:01:34 +0200 <EvanR> if it was an electron beam I guess italic wouldn't be that hard
2022-09-26 01:01:39 +0200eggplantade(~Eggplanta@108-201-191-115.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
2022-09-26 01:02:23 +0200 <monochrom> Next it can play music when it displays "Bb G# C E"
2022-09-26 01:03:57 +0200 <monochrom> If your computer has an aroma generator, the terminal can request it to produce the aroma of deep fried breaded pork cutlet when it displays the string "ton katsu".
2022-09-26 01:09:01 +0200chomwitt(~chomwitt@2a02:587:dc14:f500:7fb4:d182:20a9:76c8) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2022-09-26 01:10:15 +0200 <EvanR> to save on costs, the smell is produced by firing the electron beam at the user
2022-09-26 01:10:40 +0200 <EvanR> (ok, electron beams can't penetrate atmospheric pressure at least at those voltages)
2022-09-26 01:11:30 +0200 <EvanR> so they switched to proton beams
2022-09-26 01:18:14 +0200fjMSX(~hypni2p@2.92.213.55) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2022-09-26 01:22:58 +0200edrx(~Eduardo@2804:56c:d2dc:ac00:dab8:211d:d4eb:fa94) (Killed buffer)
2022-09-26 01:24:35 +0200matthewmosior(~matthewmo@37.19.200.26)
2022-09-26 01:25:24 +0200fjMSX(~hypni2p@2.92.213.55)
2022-09-26 01:28:37 +0200rockymarine(~rocky@user/rockymarine) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2022-09-26 01:30:02 +0200 <zzz> why does ansi-terminal-game reference ansi-terminal's setSGR here? https://hackage.haskell.org/package/ansi-terminal-game-1.8.0.0/docs/Terminal-Game.html#t:Color
2022-09-26 01:30:26 +0200nate3(~nate@98.45.169.16)
2022-09-26 01:31:14 +0200burnsidesLlama(~burnsides@119247164140.ctinets.com)
2022-09-26 01:31:21 +0200 <dminuoso> zzz: It's just meant as additional information to understand that while you may pick Magenta the data constructor, your terminal might not be rendering the color magenta.
2022-09-26 01:31:52 +0200 <dminuoso> It's possibly an old relict from older times perhaps
2022-09-26 01:31:53 +0200 <zzz> but why reference something from another library that people may or may not be familiar with?
2022-09-26 01:32:03 +0200 <zzz> dminuoso: that's what i thought
2022-09-26 01:32:13 +0200 <sm> it's built on top of it, you're expected to know both I think
2022-09-26 01:32:34 +0200litharge(litharge@libera/bot/litharge)
2022-09-26 01:32:44 +0200 <sm> right f-a ?
2022-09-26 01:32:47 +0200 <dminuoso> sm: Well its still odd.
2022-09-26 01:32:59 +0200 <dminuoso> They could just use `color` from the same library on the same page to make the same argument.
2022-09-26 01:33:01 +0200 <dminuoso> :-)_
2022-09-26 01:33:17 +0200emmanuelux(~emmanuelu@2a01cb0000f39300d565fcaab8cd0e44.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2022-09-26 01:33:27 +0200 <sm> I see
2022-09-26 01:34:30 +0200ddb(~ddb@ipv6two.tilde.club) (Quit: WeeChat 3.5)
2022-09-26 01:35:05 +0200 <EvanR> Unforunately no one can be told what color is. You have to see it for yourself
2022-09-26 01:35:20 +0200nate3(~nate@98.45.169.16) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2022-09-26 01:35:32 +0200 <zzz> the example even contemplates `SetColor *Foreground* Vivid Green` which for a second there got me all hopeful I could have more than 4 bit color
2022-09-26 01:35:36 +0200burnsidesLlama(~burnsides@119247164140.ctinets.com) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2022-09-26 01:39:15 +0200burnsidesLlama(~burnsides@119247164140.ctinets.com)
2022-09-26 01:40:16 +0200 <sm> I.. think you can ?
2022-09-26 01:40:33 +0200 <sm> somehow
2022-09-26 01:41:07 +0200rockymarine(~rocky@user/rockymarine)
2022-09-26 01:42:42 +0200emmanuelux(~emmanuelu@2a01cb0000f3930084f66f2b145dbee5.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2022-09-26 01:44:38 +0200nate3(~nate@98.45.169.16)
2022-09-26 01:45:42 +0200rockymarine(~rocky@user/rockymarine) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2022-09-26 01:53:21 +0200 <zzz> you can?
2022-09-26 02:02:54 +0200Kaipei(~Kaiepi@142.68.249.28)
2022-09-26 02:03:57 +0200Kaipei(~Kaiepi@142.68.249.28) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-09-26 02:05:07 +0200Kaipei(~Kaiepi@142.68.249.28)
2022-09-26 02:06:05 +0200Kaiepi(~Kaiepi@142.68.249.28) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2022-09-26 02:06:29 +0200onioni(~yin@user/zero)
2022-09-26 02:06:39 +0200onioni(~yin@user/zero) ()
2022-09-26 02:06:50 +0200onion(~yin@user/zero)
2022-09-26 02:07:20 +0200onion(~yin@user/zero) ()
2022-09-26 02:07:57 +0200zoo(~yin@user/zero)
2022-09-26 02:08:05 +0200zoo(~yin@user/zero) ()
2022-09-26 02:10:39 +0200zoo(~yin@user/zero)
2022-09-26 02:11:02 +0200rockymarine(~rocky@user/rockymarine)
2022-09-26 02:13:30 +0200 <EvanR> 4 bits of color and the intensity knob on your electron beam. Output an instruction to the user to turn the knob up
2022-09-26 02:13:31 +0200 <sm> i'm asking in #haskell-game:matrix.org .. maybe it requires vty
2022-09-26 02:14:06 +0200gurkenglas(~gurkengla@p548ac72e.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2022-09-26 02:14:38 +0200 <zzz> oh great. thanks. didn't know about #haskell-game
2022-09-26 02:15:31 +0200rockymarine(~rocky@user/rockymarine) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2022-09-26 02:15:46 +0200 <zzz> EvanR: eew side-effects
2022-09-26 02:20:19 +0200 <EvanR> it's pure as long as I can't observe any of it, which I can't
2022-09-26 02:21:37 +0200Guest53(~Guest53@p5b0627ab.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Quit: Client closed)
2022-09-26 02:21:59 +0200rockymarine(~rocky@user/rockymarine)
2022-09-26 02:22:12 +0200 <zzz> #lifephilosophy
2022-09-26 02:28:22 +0200mvk(~mvk@2607:fea8:5ce3:8500::778c)
2022-09-26 02:28:59 +0200matthewmosior(~matthewmo@37.19.200.26) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2022-09-26 02:34:59 +0200 <EvanR> I'm implementing the time system call from the B manual, which returns the system time "in 60ths of a second" in a 2 word array. And the words here were 16 bits according to this manual.
2022-09-26 02:35:32 +0200 <EvanR> I noticed that the time has overflowed since then, and started wondering what sort of numbers they would be dealing with
2022-09-26 02:35:52 +0200 <EvanR> document is from 1972, two years after unix epoch
2022-09-26 02:36:10 +0200 <EvanR> they were almost in danger of having time underflow
2022-09-26 02:38:31 +0200rockymarine(~rocky@user/rockymarine) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2022-09-26 02:40:09 +0200 <EvanR> oh, even worse > The first edition Unix Programmer's Manual dated 3 November 1971 defines the Unix time as "the time since 00:00:00, 1 January 1971, measured in sixtieths of a second".
2022-09-26 02:42:19 +0200 <EvanR> i see they eventually changed their mind and threw out the 60, buying themselves 68 years
2022-09-26 02:44:06 +0200rockymarine(~rocky@user/rockymarine)
2022-09-26 02:44:40 +0200fjMSX(~hypni2p@2.92.213.55) (Quit: Уш'лЪЬ їз єтой IRC сетї)
2022-09-26 02:46:19 +0200[itchyjunk](~itchyjunk@user/itchyjunk/x-7353470) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2022-09-26 02:49:17 +0200matthewmosior(~matthewmo@37.19.200.26)
2022-09-26 02:49:47 +0200Kaiepi(~Kaiepi@142.68.249.28)
2022-09-26 02:50:10 +0200Kaipei(~Kaiepi@142.68.249.28) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2022-09-26 02:50:26 +0200[itchyjunk](~itchyjunk@user/itchyjunk/x-7353470)
2022-09-26 02:53:48 +0200burnsidesLlama(~burnsides@119247164140.ctinets.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-09-26 02:54:51 +0200Kaipei(~Kaiepi@142.68.249.28)
2022-09-26 02:55:45 +0200Kaiepi(~Kaiepi@142.68.249.28) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
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2022-09-26 03:00:56 +0200TonyStone(~TonyStone@2603-7080-8607-c36a-01cb-cda3-629f-bfc2.res6.spectrum.com) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2022-09-26 03:01:53 +0200Oiyqlk(~rscastilh@191-214-26-24.user.veloxzone.com.br) ()
2022-09-26 03:10:36 +0200albet70(~xxx@2400:8902::f03c:92ff:fe60:98d8) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-09-26 03:12:16 +0200TonyStone(~TonyStone@2603-7080-8607-c36a-cc48-2eb7-9785-f03a.res6.spectrum.com)
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2022-09-26 03:33:00 +0200zoo(~yin@user/zero) (Quit: leaving)
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2022-09-26 03:36:35 +0200emmanuelux(~emmanuelu@2a01cb0000f3930084f66f2b145dbee5.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Quit: au revoir)
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2022-09-26 03:38:07 +0200TonyStone(~TonyStone@2603-7080-8607-c36a-cc48-2eb7-9785-f03a.res6.spectrum.com) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
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2022-09-26 04:02:57 +0200lemonsnicks(~lemonsnic@cpc159519-perr18-2-0-cust114.19-1.cable.virginm.net) (Quit: ZNC 1.8.2 - https://znc.in)
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2022-09-26 04:13:51 +0200[itchyjunk](~itchyjunk@user/itchyjunk/x-7353470) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2022-09-26 04:15:07 +0200schuelermine[m](~schuelerm@user/schuelermine)
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2022-09-26 04:17:20 +0200burnsidesLlama(~burnsides@119247164140.ctinets.com)
2022-09-26 04:18:00 +0200 <ski> EvanR : a "60th of a second" is sometimes called a "jiffy" or "terz" (third sexagesimal division of hour/degree, after minute and second)
2022-09-26 04:18:01 +0200td_(~td@muedsl-82-207-238-047.citykom.de) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2022-09-26 04:18:05 +0200 <ski> edrx : nice
2022-09-26 04:18:18 +0200komikat[m](~komikatma@2001:470:69fc:105::1:c71e)
2022-09-26 04:18:22 +0200 <EvanR> I see
2022-09-26 04:18:34 +0200 <EvanR> what about 3600th of a second
2022-09-26 04:18:42 +0200peddie(~peddie@2001:470:69fc:105::25d)
2022-09-26 04:19:20 +0200famubu[m](~famubumat@2001:470:69fc:105::1081)
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2022-09-26 04:20:06 +0200td_(~td@muedsl-82-207-238-079.citykom.de)
2022-09-26 04:20:25 +0200lemonsnicks(~lemonsnic@cpc159519-perr18-2-0-cust114.19-1.cable.virginm.net)
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2022-09-26 04:22:27 +0200rockymarine(~rocky@user/rockymarine)
2022-09-26 04:22:27 +0200TonyStone(~TonyStone@2603-7080-8607-c36a-cc48-2eb7-9785-f03a.res6.spectrum.com) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2022-09-26 04:22:39 +0200elvishjerricco(~elvishjer@2001:470:69fc:105::6172)
2022-09-26 04:22:50 +0200FinnElija(~finn_elij@user/finn-elija/x-0085643) (Killed (NickServ (Forcing logout FinnElija -> finn_elija)))
2022-09-26 04:22:50 +0200finn_elija(~finn_elij@user/finn-elija/x-0085643)
2022-09-26 04:22:50 +0200finn_elijaFinnElija
2022-09-26 04:23:00 +0200mekeor[m](~mekeormat@2001:470:69fc:105::17e4)
2022-09-26 04:23:38 +0200 <ski> EvanR : hm, .. maybe "quart"
2022-09-26 04:23:43 +0200jero98772(~jero98772@2800:484:1d80:d8ce:3490:26c5:1782:da8c)
2022-09-26 04:25:38 +0200matthewmosior(~matthewmo@37.19.200.26)
2022-09-26 04:26:16 +0200luffy(~chenqisu1@183.217.203.170)
2022-09-26 04:26:26 +0200jero98772(~jero98772@2800:484:1d80:d8ce:3490:26c5:1782:da8c) (Client Quit)
2022-09-26 04:27:28 +0200 <ski> ("primus","secundus","tertius","quartus,"quintus","sextus","septimus","octavus","nonus","decimus",..)
2022-09-26 04:27:36 +0200Axman6(~Axman6@user/axman6)
2022-09-26 04:27:45 +0200ski. o O ( Quintus Prolog,SICStus Prolog )
2022-09-26 04:34:32 +0200 <ski> (C64 counts time in terzes, you could also get it in hours,minutes,seconds (and compute terzes remainder if you wanted to). it resets after a nychthemeron)
2022-09-26 04:35:05 +0200 <EvanR> a nychthemeron?
2022-09-26 04:35:44 +0200TonyStone(~TonyStone@2603-7080-8607-c36a-cc48-2eb7-9785-f03a.res6.spectrum.com)
2022-09-26 04:37:06 +0200 <ski> a full rotation of the earth (or another planet, depending on context). `24' hours. a "night and day"
2022-09-26 04:37:24 +0200 <EvanR> how does c64 know what planet it's on
2022-09-26 04:37:30 +0200 <ski> (i've been using that word ever since i found it)
2022-09-26 04:37:57 +0200 <ski> well, it's hardcoded for `24' hours, on earth. i just explained the general meaning of the word
2022-09-26 04:38:06 +0200 <EvanR> i see
2022-09-26 04:39:27 +0200 <EvanR> here is my terrible awful no good very bad code https://github.com/evanrinehart/borax
2022-09-26 04:40:02 +0200 <ski> (there exists a short word for that in ivrit, russian, several scandinavian languages. unfortunately "nychtemeron" in english is not that short (nor the corresponding word (with same root, being from greek) in french), but it's better than nothing)
2022-09-26 04:40:06 +0200jao(~jao@cpc103048-sgyl39-2-0-cust502.18-2.cable.virginm.net)
2022-09-26 04:40:58 +0200 <ski> hm .. i think some early parts of the Amiga OS was written in BCPL
2022-09-26 04:41:26 +0200 <EvanR> you might like lib/libb.b xD
2022-09-26 04:41:30 +0200 <ski> (seem to recall seeing that, in a book that (amongst other things) contains listings of various header files, and also some source files)
2022-09-26 04:41:44 +0200 <EvanR> how is amiga that old
2022-09-26 04:42:52 +0200terrorjack(~terrorjac@2a01:4f8:1c1e:509a::1) (Quit: The Lounge - https://thelounge.chat)
2022-09-26 04:42:59 +0200 <ski> "By late 1984, the prototype breadboard chipset had successfully been turned into integrated circuits, and the system hardware was being readied for production. At this time the operating system (OS) was not as ready, and led to a deal to port an OS known as TRIPOS to the platform. TRIPOS was a multitasking system that had been written in BCPL during the 1970s for the PDP-11 minicomputer, but later
2022-09-26 04:43:05 +0200 <ski> experimentally ported to the 68000. This early version was known as AmigaDOS and the GUI as Workbench. The BCPL parts were later rewritten in the C language, and the entire system became AmigaOS."
2022-09-26 04:43:18 +0200 <ski> -- <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amiga#Commodore_launch>
2022-09-26 04:43:52 +0200terrorjack(~terrorjac@2a01:4f8:1c1e:509a::1)
2022-09-26 04:45:32 +0200 <ski> you wrote `libb.b' ?
2022-09-26 04:46:03 +0200Lycurgus(~juan@user/Lycurgus)
2022-09-26 04:48:41 +0200Lycurgus(~juan@user/Lycurgus) (Client Quit)
2022-09-26 04:49:54 +0200 <EvanR> I copied printf and printn from the old manual floating around
2022-09-26 04:50:07 +0200 <EvanR> it works!
2022-09-26 04:51:24 +0200Sgeo(~Sgeo@user/sgeo) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2022-09-26 04:52:03 +0200ix(~ix@2a02:8010:674f:0:d65d:64ff:fe52:5efe) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2022-09-26 04:52:18 +0200 <EvanR> and most of the comments are also copied
2022-09-26 04:52:29 +0200 <EvanR> wrote the rest of the actual code
2022-09-26 04:52:42 +0200 <ski> mhm, nice
2022-09-26 04:53:19 +0200zaquest(~notzaques@5.130.79.72)
2022-09-26 04:53:54 +0200Sgeo(~Sgeo@user/sgeo)
2022-09-26 04:54:36 +0200edrx(~Eduardo@2804:56c:d2dc:ac00:dab8:211d:d4eb:fa94) (Killed buffer)
2022-09-26 04:55:38 +0200notzmv(~zmv@user/notzmv) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2022-09-26 04:56:20 +0200 <zzz> ski: "diurno" in esperanto :) that's cool
2022-09-26 04:56:31 +0200bitdex(~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex)
2022-09-26 04:57:12 +0200 <ski> Borax is a machine/platform ?
2022-09-26 04:58:08 +0200 <ski> or implementation of B in B ?
2022-09-26 04:58:23 +0200 <ski> it says "Note: borax is using 5 characters per word so date is at least a 4-word vector."
2022-09-26 04:58:40 +0200 <EvanR> currently, it just runs a program by interpretation, if you give it all the files it will run
2022-09-26 04:58:58 +0200 <EvanR> doesn't produce object files
2022-09-26 04:59:59 +0200 <EvanR> the runtime environment is the part that's a bit strange. B sites had 16, 32, and 36 bit word versions afaict
2022-09-26 05:00:13 +0200 <EvanR> i could have said words are 64bit, with 8 chars per word
2022-09-26 05:00:17 +0200 <ski> still not sure what Borax is, exactly
2022-09-26 05:00:25 +0200 <EvanR> the name of the repo, and the binary
2022-09-26 05:00:38 +0200 <EvanR> and the type name for the final runnable
2022-09-26 05:00:45 +0200 <ski> and what is the purpose of the project ? what is it that it does ?
2022-09-26 05:01:10 +0200 <EvanR> borax main.b libb.b and it will run that example, that's basically it
2022-09-26 05:01:25 +0200 <EvanR> maybe more in the future
2022-09-26 05:01:35 +0200 <ski> so it's an interpreter for B ?
2022-09-26 05:01:42 +0200 <EvanR> yeah, it used to just be a parser
2022-09-26 05:02:02 +0200 <ski> not an emulator for a machine, used with programs written in B, or somesuch, then ?
2022-09-26 05:02:27 +0200 <EvanR> well, if the program was written for a 16bit minicomputer, and some more of the library were fleshed out, it might actually run
2022-09-26 05:02:42 +0200 <EvanR> like, if you implemented the unix support
2022-09-26 05:02:46 +0200 <ski> ii take that to mean affirmative
2022-09-26 05:03:04 +0200 <EvanR> I don't expect to find any actual B code anywhere
2022-09-26 05:04:33 +0200burnsidesLlama(~burnsides@119247164140.ctinets.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-09-26 05:04:42 +0200 <ski> perhaps you could find TriPOS source somewhere
2022-09-26 05:05:25 +0200 <EvanR> hmm... might be interesting but, BCPL is a whole nothing language right
2022-09-26 05:05:32 +0200 <EvanR> a whole nother!
2022-09-26 05:05:51 +0200 <ski> hm, right
2022-09-26 05:06:04 +0200ski's half asleep
2022-09-26 05:14:27 +0200 <janus> is there a library for scheduling N coroutines sharing a single resource? ideally portable to using different concurrency primitives
2022-09-26 05:16:15 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@89.45.224.183) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
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2022-09-26 05:36:58 +0200burnsidesLlama(~burnsides@119247164140.ctinets.com)
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2022-09-26 05:38:49 +0200 <Axman6> janus: like a resource pool?
2022-09-26 05:41:37 +0200burnsidesLlama(~burnsides@119247164140.ctinets.com) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2022-09-26 05:43:42 +0200matthewmosior(~matthewmo@37.19.200.26)
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2022-09-26 05:59:32 +0200Guest3316(~Guest33@137.132.220.132)
2022-09-26 06:00:11 +0200FinnElija(~finn_elij@user/finn-elija/x-0085643) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2022-09-26 06:01:52 +0200FinnElija(~finn_elij@user/finn-elija/x-0085643)
2022-09-26 06:03:34 +0200 <Guest3316> hi, i was wondering how to define a quickcheck generator for sequences of operations on, say, a set. i want the sequences to satisfy some constraints, e.g. only contain Add operations for new elements, and Remove operations only for existing elements. what's the best way to do this?
2022-09-26 06:05:51 +0200nate3(~nate@98.45.169.16)
2022-09-26 06:11:13 +0200nate3(~nate@98.45.169.16) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
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2022-09-26 06:29:14 +0200rockymarine(~rocky@user/rockymarine)
2022-09-26 06:32:43 +0200matthewmosior(~matthewmo@37.19.200.26)
2022-09-26 06:37:21 +0200matthewmosior(~matthewmo@37.19.200.26) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-09-26 06:37:33 +0200matthewmosior(~matthewmo@37.19.200.26)
2022-09-26 06:38:53 +0200mbuf(~Shakthi@49.205.80.222)
2022-09-26 06:39:36 +0200 <Axman6> Guest3316: IIRC Arbitrary doesn't have any notion of state, so it may not be the right tool for the job. I think theyre may be better options using hedgehog - jackdk any input on that?
2022-09-26 06:40:10 +0200 <jackdk> quickcheck also supports state machine property testing but I haven't used it
2022-09-26 06:40:27 +0200 <jackdk> I'm sure it's well-developed enough to support operation constraints as Guest3316 describes thouhg
2022-09-26 06:41:31 +0200nate3(~nate@98.45.169.16)
2022-09-26 06:42:29 +0200matthewmosior(~matthewmo@37.19.200.26) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-09-26 06:45:04 +0200 <jackdk> https://hackage.haskell.org/package/quickcheck-state-machine seems to be the thing. I just happen to use and like hedgehog
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2022-09-26 08:57:55 +0200`2jt(~jtomas@88.17.232.105)
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2022-09-26 09:32:09 +0200takuan(~takuan@178-116-218-225.access.telenet.be)
2022-09-26 09:32:24 +0200 <dminuoso> I have decided that S/M/IM.insert is an inadequate interface to containers, and alterF is better suited. :)
2022-09-26 09:32:41 +0200 <dminuoso> It's somewhat beyond me how the API somehow implies that overwriting existing keys is a sensible default.
2022-09-26 09:33:39 +0200 <dminuoso> Even insertWith does not fully address it, in my experience erroring out is used more often important than somehow combining (or picking)
2022-09-26 09:34:09 +0200dr_merijn(~merijn@86-86-29-250.fixed.kpn.net)
2022-09-26 09:34:13 +0200 <dminuoso> Even something like fromList seems inadequate in this way
2022-09-26 09:34:38 +0200matthewmosior(~matthewmo@37.19.200.26) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2022-09-26 09:34:46 +0200 <dminuoso> But at least we do get alterF, its a really cool and powerful interface that I wish sometimes other languages would offer by default.
2022-09-26 09:41:50 +0200 <c_wraith> there aren't many languages capable of expressing alterF...
2022-09-26 09:41:52 +0200vglfr(~vglfr@145.224.100.190) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2022-09-26 09:42:01 +0200nschoe(~quassel@178.251.84.79)
2022-09-26 09:45:53 +0200ubert(~Thunderbi@178.115.76.1.wireless.dyn.drei.com)
2022-09-26 09:46:01 +0200kuribas(~user@ptr-17d51epov7n4awhcx5q.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be)
2022-09-26 09:47:39 +0200 <dminuoso> To some degree they do.
2022-09-26 09:48:03 +0200 <dminuoso> If we assume some IO monomorphized variant, its relatively trivial in most popular languages todayu
2022-09-26 09:48:39 +0200 <c_wraith> Oh. if you assume only the least useful version, sure.
2022-09-26 09:48:42 +0200matthewmosior(~matthewmo@37.19.200.26)
2022-09-26 09:49:16 +0200 <dminuoso> Mmm, I do happen to be in IO quite frequently anyway.
2022-09-26 09:49:35 +0200 <c_wraith> I tend to find ((,) a) to be way more useful than IO
2022-09-26 09:49:37 +0200 <dminuoso> Just rewriting this pure code right now to live in IO to make state + exceptions way easier. :)
2022-09-26 09:49:37 +0200dr_merijn(~merijn@86-86-29-250.fixed.kpn.net) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2022-09-26 09:49:50 +0200 <c_wraith> I just want to return an extra value!
2022-09-26 09:50:09 +0200 <dminuoso> Ah in the sense of C-style return codes?
2022-09-26 09:50:38 +0200 <dminuoso> Presumably a `(,) (Maybe Error)` kind of thing?
2022-09-26 09:50:57 +0200 <c_wraith> Not really. Just the sense of I want to compute something else depending on the old state of the structure while updating it in a single pass
2022-09-26 09:51:03 +0200gurkenglas(~gurkengla@p548ac72e.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2022-09-26 09:51:37 +0200 <dminuoso> Ah fair enough, in my problem domain I just want to set errors one way or another. Most of the time its either an IO exception or mutating some `IORef [Error]`
2022-09-26 09:52:39 +0200 <c_wraith> But the fun part of just being a Functor constraint is you can compose together any number of effects you want
2022-09-26 09:53:03 +0200 <dminuoso> Yeah, effect composition is something I have developed a distate for over the past 2 years.
2022-09-26 09:53:10 +0200matthewmosior(~matthewmo@37.19.200.26) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2022-09-26 09:53:39 +0200 <c_wraith> Oh, I don't mean like effect libraries. I've never seen one of those worth its weight
2022-09-26 09:53:42 +0200machinedgod(~machinedg@d198-53-218-113.abhsia.telus.net)
2022-09-26 09:53:45 +0200bilegeek(~bilegeek@2600:1008:b01a:ce6d:7fee:7852:470d:bda9) (Quit: Leaving)
2022-09-26 09:53:51 +0200 <dminuoso> What kind of effect composition are you referring to then?
2022-09-26 09:54:07 +0200 <c_wraith> just Data.Functor.Compose
2022-09-26 09:55:54 +0200MajorBiscuit(~MajorBisc@145.94.161.115)
2022-09-26 09:59:14 +0200 <kuribas> IMO monad transformers are fine if you put them in a newtype.
2022-09-26 09:59:29 +0200 <kuribas> They are just some glue that you don't need to write yourself.
2022-09-26 09:59:50 +0200 <kuribas> I don't see them as big architectural designs though.
2022-09-26 09:59:57 +0200 <dminuoso> If its just ReaderT or things isomorphic to it, sure.
2022-09-26 10:00:18 +0200 <kuribas> also ExceptT
2022-09-26 10:00:26 +0200 <kuribas> and StateT
2022-09-26 10:00:29 +0200 <dminuoso> But anything else forbids use of MonadUnliftIO and will in edge cases almost assuredly misbehave when state + exceptions collide.
2022-09-26 10:00:49 +0200 <kuribas> I used them in pure computations.
2022-09-26 10:01:00 +0200 <dminuoso> If its just state, you can also use ST
2022-09-26 10:01:13 +0200 <dminuoso> And potentially ExceptT over ST
2022-09-26 10:01:26 +0200burnsidesLlama(~burnsides@119247164140.ctinets.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-09-26 10:01:40 +0200 <kuribas> sure, if you need the performance gain.
2022-09-26 10:01:47 +0200 <dminuoso> Well its not necessarily about performance
2022-09-26 10:02:05 +0200 <kuribas> I would ST with mutable vectors, arrays, etc...
2022-09-26 10:02:09 +0200 <dminuoso> My main beef with ExceptT/StateT is that you get in bizarre edge cases with bracket* that you cannot solve
2022-09-26 10:02:19 +0200 <dminuoso> Assuming its over IO of course
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2022-09-26 10:16:34 +0200 <kuribas> yeah, you need to pick exceptions or ExceptT
2022-09-26 10:16:55 +0200dr_merijn(~merijn@86-86-29-250.fixed.kpn.net)
2022-09-26 10:17:02 +0200 <kuribas> Or you have to be happy that Exceptions throwaway state and Except.
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2022-09-26 10:23:53 +0200 <dminuoso> kuribas: The issue is a bit more subtle than just throwing away state.
2022-09-26 10:24:32 +0200 <dminuoso> The common example frequently named is `bracket_ (put 'a') (put 'b') (put 'c')`
2022-09-26 10:24:35 +0200dr_merijn(~merijn@86-86-29-250.fixed.kpn.net) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2022-09-26 10:24:59 +0200 <dminuoso> There is no good answer at what this should do
2022-09-26 10:25:21 +0200 <dminuoso> In a world with StateT and MonadBaseControl that is.
2022-09-26 10:25:49 +0200 <c_wraith> sure, but that's obvious just from the types.
2022-09-26 10:25:59 +0200 <c_wraith> If you don't want what the types do, don't use those types
2022-09-26 10:26:10 +0200 <kuribas> you should not use "bracket" with a transformer.
2022-09-26 10:26:27 +0200 <dminuoso> That seems like a very silly suggestion, kuribas.
2022-09-26 10:26:33 +0200 <kuribas> MonadBaseControl is pure evil.
2022-09-26 10:26:34 +0200 <dminuoso> I like code being thread safe.
2022-09-26 10:26:54 +0200 <dminuoso> Async exceptions are a *constant* threat.
2022-09-26 10:27:16 +0200 <dminuoso> Not using bracket is for a lot of people not an option.
2022-09-26 10:27:21 +0200 <kuribas> that's why you want to avoid StateT in your application monad.
2022-09-26 10:27:39 +0200 <dminuoso> c_wraith: Im not convinced this is so obvious from the types.
2022-09-26 10:27:47 +0200 <dminuoso> It's honestly quite subtle
2022-09-26 10:27:49 +0200 <kuribas> I didn't say not to use it.
2022-09-26 10:30:20 +0200 <kuribas> just not with a transformer
2022-09-26 10:31:22 +0200 <dminuoso> kuribas: Its a difficult proposition to just not use StateT when you want to bracket. I frequently need to carry state around a use of bracket.
2022-09-26 10:31:40 +0200 <dminuoso> Yet another thing is, I commonly have IO anyway - which already buys me side effects and exceptions. :)
2022-09-26 10:31:45 +0200 <kuribas> dminuoso: then use an IORef?
2022-09-26 10:31:57 +0200 <dminuoso> Yeah that's what I do, I just keep environments of IORefs around
2022-09-26 10:32:12 +0200 <dminuoso> Which is why I get MonadUnliftIO, which buys me bracket without headaches
2022-09-26 10:33:12 +0200coot(~coot@89-76-160-4.dynamic.chello.pl) (Quit: coot)
2022-09-26 10:33:56 +0200coot(~coot@89-76-160-4.dynamic.chello.pl)
2022-09-26 10:33:57 +0200 <kuribas> MonadUnliftIO doesn't provide much, except duplication almost every IO function
2022-09-26 10:34:08 +0200coot(~coot@89-76-160-4.dynamic.chello.pl) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-09-26 10:34:18 +0200coot(~coot@89-76-160-4.dynamic.chello.pl)
2022-09-26 10:34:58 +0200 <kuribas> perhaps having just `Env -> IO a` is even better for an application "monad".
2022-09-26 10:35:27 +0200 <dminuoso> MonadUnliftIO just gives you an interface of using things with IO in negative position
2022-09-26 10:35:32 +0200 <dminuoso> like bracket
2022-09-26 10:35:40 +0200 <dminuoso> But in a way aligned with common expectations
2022-09-26 10:36:35 +0200 <dminuoso> Well it does slightly more, it does provide a slightly altered Control.Exception
2022-09-26 10:36:37 +0200ec(~ec@gateway/tor-sasl/ec) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2022-09-26 10:36:52 +0200 <dminuoso> (you can think of it as safe-exceptions being included)
2022-09-26 10:37:30 +0200 <dminuoso> These wrappers are handy, you would end up writing them yourself anyway, or using withRunInIO a lot.
2022-09-26 10:37:40 +0200 <dminuoso> But that latter is a slightly awkward interface
2022-09-26 10:39:13 +0200jmdaemon(~jmdaemon@user/jmdaemon) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
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2022-09-26 10:41:39 +0200 <kuribas> or just use Env -> IO a?
2022-09-26 10:42:33 +0200 <dminuoso> kuribas: Sure. Mostly I like the convenience of MonadLogger/LoggingT
2022-09-26 10:43:32 +0200 <kuribas> you can make your own MonadLogger instance
2022-09-26 10:43:36 +0200 <dminuoso> So I tend to have something like `newtype AppM a = AppM { runAppM :: (ReaderT Env (LoggingT IO) a } deriving MonadIO; deriving MonadUnliftIO`
2022-09-26 10:43:52 +0200 <dminuoso> Sure, but an explicit instance does require a custom newtype
2022-09-26 10:44:30 +0200 <dminuoso> And you have to do what MonadUnliftIO does manually anyway
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2022-09-26 12:16:23 +0200luffy(~chenqisu1@183.217.203.170)
2022-09-26 12:16:53 +0200ski. o O ( "Interface-passing style" by Fare in 2010-02-17 at <https://fare.livejournal.com/155094.html> )
2022-09-26 12:16:54 +0200peddie(~peddie@2001:470:69fc:105::25d)
2022-09-26 12:16:54 +0200ericson2314(~ericson23@2001:470:69fc:105::70c)
2022-09-26 12:16:54 +0200famubu[m](~famubumat@2001:470:69fc:105::1081)
2022-09-26 12:16:55 +0200maralorn(~maralorn@2001:470:69fc:105::251)
2022-09-26 12:16:55 +0200zfnmxt(~zfnmxt@2001:470:69fc:105::2b32)
2022-09-26 12:16:55 +0200sm(~sm@plaintextaccounting/sm)
2022-09-26 12:16:55 +0200Christoph[m](~hpotsirhc@2001:470:69fc:105::2ff8)
2022-09-26 12:16:55 +0200ongy[m](~ongymatri@2001:470:69fc:105::5018)
2022-09-26 12:16:56 +0200siraben(~siraben@user/siraben)
2022-09-26 12:16:56 +0200july541[m](~july541ma@2001:470:69fc:105::1:e416)
2022-09-26 12:16:56 +0200smichel17[m](~smichel17@2001:470:69fc:105::2d32)
2022-09-26 12:16:56 +0200ManofLetters[m](~manoflett@2001:470:69fc:105::3be)
2022-09-26 12:17:00 +0200 <ski> "there aren't many languages capable of expressing alterF..." ^
2022-09-26 12:17:08 +0200ajf___[m](~ajfmatrix@2001:470:69fc:105::2:5be3)
2022-09-26 12:17:08 +0200fendor[m](~fendormat@2001:470:69fc:105::fcbd)
2022-09-26 12:17:08 +0200jmcantrell(~jmcantrel@user/jmcantrell)
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2022-09-26 12:17:10 +0200Guillaum[m](~guiboumat@2001:470:69fc:105::1:72ac)
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2022-09-26 12:18:24 +0200TrueBlue[m](~busterblu@2001:470:69fc:105::1:d7e8)
2022-09-26 12:18:36 +0200kenran(~kenran@200116b82bd4f60076f7b4c162f0080d.dip.versatel-1u1.de) (Quit: WeeChat)
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2022-09-26 12:19:12 +0200sjanssen(~sjanssenm@2001:470:69fc:105::1:61d8)
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2022-09-26 12:19:15 +0200oak-(~oakuniver@2001:470:69fc:105::fcd)
2022-09-26 12:21:33 +0200 <Profpatsch> Dose enabling {-# LANGUAGE QuasiQuotes #-} lead to more things being recompiled than strictly necessary?
2022-09-26 12:21:37 +0200 <Profpatsch> Or just with TemplateHaskell?
2022-09-26 12:21:49 +0200 <Profpatsch> Thinking about enabling QuasiQuotes project-wide
2022-09-26 12:22:01 +0200 <Profpatsch> Since we use the PyF package quite extensively
2022-09-26 12:28:51 +0200kuribas`(~user@ptr-17d51epr2yope30o1j4.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be)
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2022-09-26 13:31:24 +0200matthewmosior(~matthewmo@37.19.200.26)
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2022-09-26 13:36:11 +0200Cerins(~Cerins@balticom-142-106-43.balticom.lv)
2022-09-26 13:38:05 +0200 <troydm> is there a haskell function that converts String hex characters into Int value?
2022-09-26 13:38:15 +0200 <troydm> like "FF" > 255
2022-09-26 13:38:24 +0200 <troydm> or I should write one myself?
2022-09-26 13:38:28 +0200libertyprime(~libertypr@118-92-64-32.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz) (Quit: leaving)
2022-09-26 13:39:22 +0200dr_merijn(~merijn@86-86-29-250.fixed.kpn.net)
2022-09-26 13:39:48 +0200 <dminuoso> troydm: For poor-mans parsing you can use Numeric.readHex
2022-09-26 13:40:17 +0200 <dminuoso> But if you do have a bit more parsing to do, you might want to explore one of the parser combinator libraries.
2022-09-26 13:41:56 +0200 <troydm> dminuoso: thx, I'm actually using megaparsec parsing hex values so was wondering how to convert them to integer
2022-09-26 13:42:16 +0200 <dminuoso> troydm: megaparsec comes with `hexadecimal` combinators.
2022-09-26 13:42:40 +0200 <dminuoso> Word of caution, they do not do bound checking. Using `hexadecimal` at `Parser Word8` will not behave nicely. :)
2022-09-26 13:43:09 +0200 <dminuoso> (I think they should really just give you `Parser Integer` as to be explicit and honest)
2022-09-26 13:44:22 +0200dr_merijn(~merijn@86-86-29-250.fixed.kpn.net) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2022-09-26 13:49:06 +0200kenran(~user@200116b82bd4f60068ba9dc4647802b1.dip.versatel-1u1.de)
2022-09-26 13:49:49 +0200kenran(~user@200116b82bd4f60068ba9dc4647802b1.dip.versatel-1u1.de) (Client Quit)
2022-09-26 13:50:08 +0200 <troydm> dminuoso: yeah, will do it my own way
2022-09-26 13:51:06 +0200 <dminuoso> troydm: No you can use them just fine.
2022-09-26 13:51:51 +0200 <dminuoso> Just do something like `do r <- hexadecimal :: Parser Integer; when (r > (maxBound :: Word8)) (fail "thing too large"); ...`
2022-09-26 13:53:15 +0200coot(~coot@89-76-160-4.dynamic.chello.pl) (Quit: coot)
2022-09-26 13:56:10 +0200mastarija(~mastarija@95.168.120.14) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2022-09-26 13:57:37 +0200gurkenglas(~gurkengla@p548ac72e.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
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2022-09-26 13:59:36 +0200 <geekosaur> with a fromIntegral in there
2022-09-26 14:00:07 +0200zebrag(~chris@user/zebrag)
2022-09-26 14:01:51 +0200 <dminuoso> geekosaur: No thats the point why its so terrible.
2022-09-26 14:01:55 +0200 <dminuoso> The fromIntegral is implicitly in there already.
2022-09-26 14:02:24 +0200 <dminuoso> hexadecimal :: forall e s m a . (MonadParsec e s m, Token s ~ Word8, Num a) => m a
2022-09-26 14:02:24 +0200 <geekosaur> r :: Integer is going to mismatch against maxBound :: Word8
2022-09-26 14:02:29 +0200 <dminuoso> Oh.
2022-09-26 14:02:30 +0200jakalx(~jakalx@base.jakalx.net) (Error from remote client)
2022-09-26 14:02:38 +0200 <dminuoso> Yes sorry you are right.
2022-09-26 14:02:38 +0200 <geekosaur> por if it doesn't then it's too ;late to check the toio large
2022-09-26 14:06:01 +0200dr_merijn(~merijn@86-86-29-250.fixed.kpn.net)
2022-09-26 14:07:04 +0200jonathanx_(~jonathan@h-178-174-176-109.A357.priv.bahnhof.se)
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2022-09-26 15:53:22 +0200 <MangoIV[m]> Hi, I'm having an issue with Cabal that I would need some guidance with, does anybody here maybe know about how the cabal resolving works/ how cabal build works? The concrete issue I'm having can be found here: https://github.com/haskell/cabal/issues/8481
2022-09-26 15:53:22 +0200 <MangoIV[m]> Thanks so much in advance!
2022-09-26 15:56:41 +0200 <dminuoso> MangoIV[m]: So the first mistake is thinking in terms of ghc-pkg here.
2022-09-26 15:57:05 +0200 <dminuoso> That's a step in the future for when packages are already installed
2022-09-26 15:57:08 +0200[itchyjunk](~itchyjunk@user/itchyjunk/x-7353470)
2022-09-26 15:58:16 +0200 <dminuoso> So the way cabal works, is it considers all packages off the hackage index it has stored locally, as well as all vendored packages.
2022-09-26 15:58:32 +0200 <dminuoso> That last one is by default a glob `./*.cabal`, relative to where you invoke the command
2022-09-26 15:58:36 +0200shriekingnoise(~shrieking@186.137.167.202)
2022-09-26 15:58:45 +0200 <dminuoso> See `packages:` stanza in cabal.project file https://cabal.readthedocs.io/en/3.4/cabal-project.html
2022-09-26 15:59:56 +0200 <MangoIV[m]> > That's a step in the future for when packages are already installed
2022-09-26 15:59:56 +0200 <MangoIV[m]> So it does look at ghc-pkg if it has all packages installed? Because in my case I let nix build all the packages but cabal fails to find the sublibraries although it's provided as dependency. ghc-pkg recognizes it's there but marks it as hidden
2022-09-26 15:59:58 +0200 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:15: error: parse error on input ‘in’
2022-09-26 16:00:03 +0200 <dminuoso> No
2022-09-26 16:00:17 +0200 <dminuoso> Or at least I dont think it does?
2022-09-26 16:00:42 +0200 <dminuoso> The relevant thing is, before anything cabal has to make a build plan
2022-09-26 16:01:39 +0200 <MangoIV[m]> > So the way cabal works, is it considers all packages off the hackage index it has stored locally, as well as all vendored packages.
2022-09-26 16:01:39 +0200 <MangoIV[m]> what is the files it looks at? Does this happen before the package db is populated?
2022-09-26 16:01:40 +0200 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:23: error: parse error on input ‘,’
2022-09-26 16:02:07 +0200 <ski> (.. might want to avoid using that "reply" function)
2022-09-26 16:02:17 +0200 <dminuoso> MangoIV[m]: It will consult ~/.cabal/packages/hackage.haskell.org/01-index* files
2022-09-26 16:02:54 +0200 <MangoIV[m]> dminuoso: yeah, that's the issue I'm having, I think the build plan is made incorrectly. if I use the `cabal-plan` util (or what it's called), it also marks the relevant package as hidden.
2022-09-26 16:03:21 +0200 <dminuoso> No, its just not available to build plan
2022-09-26 16:03:27 +0200 <dminuoso> cabal will not consider what you have installed as far as I know
2022-09-26 16:03:45 +0200 <dr_merijn> dminuoso: Not in the v2-build world, no
2022-09-26 16:03:46 +0200 <dminuoso> It will just consider what is a) on its hackage index, and b) what you vendored via the `packages:` option in your cabal.project
2022-09-26 16:04:04 +0200 <dminuoso> dr_merijn: are there any other worlds? :)
2022-09-26 16:04:13 +0200 <dr_merijn> the v1-build stone ages :p
2022-09-26 16:04:14 +0200 <dminuoso> Besides, the reproducer implies they are using v2-style
2022-09-26 16:04:20 +0200 <dr_merijn> And the Setup.hs world :p
2022-09-26 16:04:27 +0200 <dminuoso> So this is a moot point
2022-09-26 16:04:31 +0200 <MangoIV[m]> dminuoso: I see, in my case that won't be in .cabal but I think that I can find the corresponding big in my env.
2022-09-26 16:04:36 +0200kenran(~user@200116b82bd4f60068ba9dc4647802b1.dip.versatel-1u1.de)
2022-09-26 16:04:50 +0200 <dminuoso> MangoIV[m]: what *you* know is of little relevance to cabal-install. :)
2022-09-26 16:04:59 +0200 <dminuoso> It's all about what you *tell* it
2022-09-26 16:05:42 +0200 <dminuoso> Create a cabal.project file at the top level of the repository containing `packages: blup, bla`, then at the top-level you can use `cabal build bla` or `cabal build blup` and they will be able to find each other
2022-09-26 16:05:45 +0200dibblego(~dibblego@haskell/developer/dibblego) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
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2022-09-26 16:07:49 +0200 <MangoIV[m]> dr_merijn: with Setup.hs this actually works. I use v2-build though, afaik, my cabal is recent enough for sublibs :3
2022-09-26 16:08:07 +0200 <MangoIV[m]> dminuoso: this is just the reproducer, this won't be possible in my real world example.
2022-09-26 16:08:23 +0200kenran(~user@200116b82bd4f60068ba9dc4647802b1.dip.versatel-1u1.de)
2022-09-26 16:09:16 +0200 <MangoIV[m]> <dminuoso> "It will just consider what is a)..." <- i think i will follow up on the hackage-index thing, thank you for the help
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2022-09-26 16:09:50 +0200 <dminuoso> MangoIV[m]: Why wouldnt it be possible?
2022-09-26 16:10:04 +0200 <dminuoso> You can always create a cabal.project file vendoring other packages.
2022-09-26 16:10:25 +0200 <dr_merijn> Or make a freeze file
2022-09-26 16:10:35 +0200 <dminuoso> In fact, if they are mixed together in a repository, going via hackage will create a lot of problems (such as being unable to test intertwined changes without uploading to hackage)
2022-09-26 16:10:52 +0200jakalx(~jakalx@base.jakalx.net) (Error from remote client)
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2022-09-26 16:12:25 +0200 <MangoIV[m]> dminuoso: because the sublibs come from a dep that's build by nix
2022-09-26 16:13:09 +0200waldo(~waldo@user/waldo) (Quit: quit)
2022-09-26 16:13:19 +0200 <dminuoso> Mmm, Im not sure working with some libraries being built by nix is even possible
2022-09-26 16:14:41 +0200 <MangoIV[m]> dminuoso: it sure is, there's just the issue that cabal doesn't find the public sublib of one of the dependencies.
2022-09-26 16:14:41 +0200 <MangoIV[m]> funnily enough when building it as a dependency for a package which is built with nix it will build just fine.
2022-09-26 16:14:52 +0200 <dminuoso> It is? How does that even work?
2022-09-26 16:14:57 +0200jakalx(~jakalx@base.jakalx.net)
2022-09-26 16:15:09 +0200 <dminuoso> Does nix produce .cabal files of what it does?
2022-09-26 16:15:21 +0200 <MangoIV[m]> https://github.com/input-output-hk/haskell.nix
2022-09-26 16:15:27 +0200burnsidesLlama(~burnsides@119247164140.ctinets.com) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2022-09-26 16:15:29 +0200 <MangoIV[m]> dminuoso: the cabal file is local to the project
2022-09-26 16:15:40 +0200 <dminuoso> Okay that's haskell.nix not nix (which suggests nixpkgs.haskell things)
2022-09-26 16:15:42 +0200 <MangoIV[m]> s/project/package/
2022-09-26 16:15:52 +0200 <dminuoso> But even with haskell.nix its surprising
2022-09-26 16:16:36 +0200 <MangoIV[m]> dminuoso: that "nix" name overloading issue again. I mean nix the expression language and nix the package manager. not nix the nixpkgs package base
2022-09-26 16:17:15 +0200 <dminuoso> The reason Im confused is because haskell.nix already does its own build-plan, what kind of artifacts does it produce to let cabal-install work with it?
2022-09-26 16:17:24 +0200 <dminuoso> Im not convinced this works at all
2022-09-26 16:17:41 +0200 <MangoIV[m]> it would work with nixpkgs, too, though. it's what the ghcWithPackages though.
2022-09-26 16:17:50 +0200 <MangoIV[m]> dminuoso: it produces a package-db that it makes available with an env var
2022-09-26 16:17:50 +0200 <MangoIV[m]> dminuoso: lol
2022-09-26 16:18:01 +0200 <dminuoso> Mmm
2022-09-26 16:18:28 +0200 <dminuoso> But that would only work with v1-style then
2022-09-26 16:18:35 +0200 <dminuoso> With v2-style I dont see how
2022-09-26 16:19:26 +0200 <MangoIV[m]> it *does* build with cabal build though and that's the default with cabal >=v3.4(?)
2022-09-26 16:19:41 +0200 <dminuoso> Deep black magic *shrugs*
2022-09-26 16:20:02 +0200 <dminuoso> How do you depend on that?
2022-09-26 16:20:30 +0200 <dminuoso> Oh wait.. I think Im beginning to understand what you mean.
2022-09-26 16:20:36 +0200dibblego(~dibblego@122-199-1-30.ip4.superloop.com)
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2022-09-26 16:20:36 +0200dibblego(~dibblego@haskell/developer/dibblego)
2022-09-26 16:20:39 +0200 <dminuoso> You and I are talking about very different things.
2022-09-26 16:21:04 +0200 <dminuoso> MangoIV[m]: You're talking about things like shellFor right?
2022-09-26 16:21:15 +0200 <MangoIV[m]> dminuoso: wdym? you just specify your dependencies in the cabal files as usual. and cabal will fail if you didn't include the dep in the nix shell (or haskell.nix will find them automatically from their nixified hackage)
2022-09-26 16:21:59 +0200 <MangoIV[m]> dminuoso: yea. shellFor works different than normal haskell.nix builds because it skips the build for the local packages and then you can build them with cabal instead of the usual Setup.hs
2022-09-26 16:22:33 +0200 <MangoIV[m]> And that's where it fails for public sublibs of a dependency
2022-09-26 16:25:01 +0200ec(~ec@gateway/tor-sasl/ec) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
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2022-09-26 16:27:40 +0200 <MangoIV[m]> dminuoso: for reference, this is the error... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/libera.chat/3384f26063fa9fd6a1edb6659521b53cd411…>)
2022-09-26 16:27:51 +0200ChaiTRex(~ChaiTRex@user/chaitrex)
2022-09-26 16:27:58 +0200 <dminuoso> MangoIV[m]: yeah with haskell.nix I have no clue honestly
2022-09-26 16:28:12 +0200 <dminuoso> In a shelLFor your cabal is a wrapper script that uses a very tuned and customized config
2022-09-26 16:28:32 +0200 <dminuoso> So if that doesnt build, dunno, ask IOG :P
2022-09-26 16:29:23 +0200Raito_Bezarius(~Raito@wireguard/tunneler/raito-bezarius) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
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2022-09-26 16:30:30 +0200 <MangoIV[m]> dminuoso: i did, they don't have a clue, either, that's why I'm trying to find out how cabal works, lol https://github.com/input-output-hk/haskell.nix/issues/1662
2022-09-26 16:32:18 +0200king_gs(~Thunderbi@187.201.192.184)
2022-09-26 16:41:56 +0200 <MangoIV[m]> Another question I have is how does the `package.conf.d` fit into this scheme? Is it relevant to `cabal build`? I see that the `CABAL_CONFIG` env var points there.
2022-09-26 16:42:06 +0200Raito_Bezarius(~Raito@wireguard/tunneler/raito-bezarius)
2022-09-26 16:42:15 +0200dibblego(~dibblego@122-199-1-30.ip4.superloop.com)
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2022-09-26 16:42:15 +0200dibblego(~dibblego@haskell/developer/dibblego)
2022-09-26 16:44:15 +0200 <MangoIV[m]> * Another question I have is how does the `package.conf.d` fit into this scheme? Is it relevant to `cabal build`? I see that the `CABAL_CONFIG` env var points to a `cabal.config` that points to a nix provided `package.conf.d`. The issue is that I don't see issues with it compared to the one generated by cabal when building locally.
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2022-09-26 16:50:42 +0200 <janus> Axman6: my issue with libraries like 'resource-pool' is that they are IO oriented. i am looking for something that allows me to swap concurrency primitives
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2022-09-26 18:41:20 +0200zxx7529(~Thunderbi@user/zxx7529) (Quit: zxx7529)
2022-09-26 18:41:50 +0200 <dminuoso> janus: Curious, what kind of types are you thinking of?
2022-09-26 18:42:37 +0200jao(~jao@cpc103048-sgyl39-2-0-cust502.18-2.cable.virginm.net)
2022-09-26 18:43:41 +0200 <janus> i am working with Coroutines that have two Susp constructors. so when a coroutine yields with the second constructor, i want it to query the shared resource. other routines that use the shared resource will have to wait until the shared resource continuation is done
2022-09-26 18:44:47 +0200 <janus> because this isn't tied to I/O, i was hoping i could test it in a pure value-based fashion
2022-09-26 18:45:51 +0200 <dminuoso> janus: You can also just unsafePerformIO resource-pool into purity.
2022-09-26 18:46:01 +0200 <dminuoso> It should be relatively safe
2022-09-26 18:46:42 +0200 <janus> i don't really mind writing my own scheduler though, it seems like an interesting problem. i just don't know the literature
2022-09-26 18:48:51 +0200 <EvanR> for the purposes of implementing coroutines that just work, a scheduler that just does round robin would be simple and in some sense fair
2022-09-26 18:49:10 +0200 <EvanR> it doesn't have to be able to become skynet
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2022-09-26 18:58:04 +0200matthewmosior(~matthewmo@37.19.200.26)
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2022-09-26 19:22:42 +0200 <EvanR> is there a blessed way to detect the usable range of Int on a given haskell implementation, I heard there are 32bit haskell systems somewhere xD
2022-09-26 19:24:19 +0200 <EvanR> The exact range for a given implementation can be determined by using minBound and maxBound from the Bounded class.
2022-09-26 19:24:22 +0200 <EvanR> k
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2022-09-26 20:25:23 +0200seydar(~seydar@198.167.171.164)
2022-09-26 20:25:47 +0200 <seydar> anyone at GNU radio conf?
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2022-09-26 21:32:45 +0200dr_merijn(~merijn@86-86-29-250.fixed.kpn.net)
2022-09-26 21:33:23 +0200 <zzz> @type '\^['
2022-09-26 21:33:24 +0200 <lambdabot> Char
2022-09-26 21:33:49 +0200 <zzz> is this an ASCII control character?
2022-09-26 21:33:59 +0200 <monochrom> Yes.
2022-09-26 21:34:10 +0200 <monochrom> > fromEnum '\^['
2022-09-26 21:34:11 +0200 <lambdabot> 27
2022-09-26 21:34:17 +0200 <monochrom> It is ESC.
2022-09-26 21:35:00 +0200 <monochrom> I think this works:
2022-09-26 21:35:08 +0200 <monochrom> > '\ESC' == '\^['
2022-09-26 21:35:10 +0200 <lambdabot> True
2022-09-26 21:35:14 +0200 <monochrom> \∩/
2022-09-26 21:35:35 +0200 <zzz> ah nice
2022-09-26 21:37:43 +0200 <monochrom> Also:
2022-09-26 21:37:47 +0200 <monochrom> > '\^A'
2022-09-26 21:37:49 +0200 <lambdabot> '\SOH'
2022-09-26 21:37:56 +0200 <monochrom> > fromEnum '\^A'
2022-09-26 21:37:58 +0200 <lambdabot> 1
2022-09-26 21:39:32 +0200 <monochrom> In general, '\^A' ... '\^Z' are 1 to 26. You can think of "ctrl-A ... ctrl-Z". Then followed by '\^[', '\^\', '\^]'
2022-09-26 21:42:59 +0200matthewm_(~matthewmo@173.170.253.91)
2022-09-26 21:46:34 +0200matthewmosior(~matthewmo@37.19.200.26) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2022-09-26 21:47:33 +0200 <pavonia> I didn't know that's part of Haskell syntax
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2022-09-26 22:49:24 +0200moonsheep(~user@user/moonsheep)
2022-09-26 22:50:20 +0200causal(~user@50.35.83.177)
2022-09-26 22:51:55 +0200justsomeguy(~justsomeg@user/justsomeguy) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
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2022-09-26 22:56:29 +0200seydar(~seydar@154-27-113-252.starry-inc.net)
2022-09-26 22:57:21 +0200 <moonsheep> what is the go-to for cryptography in haskell? the two main libraries I've seen seem to be cryptonite and HsOpenSSL
2022-09-26 22:58:34 +0200axeman(~quassel@2a02:8109:a380:78:83c4:7a9e:6d86:9ea0) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2022-09-26 22:59:34 +0200 <moonsheep> the cryptonite docs specifically warn that "If you have no idea what you're doing, please do not use this directly. Instead, rely on higher level protocols or implementations."
2022-09-26 22:59:44 +0200 <moonsheep> I think I have /some/ idea of what I'm doing
2022-09-26 22:59:56 +0200 <moonsheep> and I certainly want access to low level cryptographic primitives
2022-09-26 23:00:10 +0200 <geekosaur> note that lots of people don't trust cryptonite because it hasn't been audited
2022-09-26 23:00:11 +0200 <moonsheep> however it's way easier to find openssl examples and advice online
2022-09-26 23:00:21 +0200 <moonsheep> geekosaur: oh good point
2022-09-26 23:00:35 +0200 <moonsheep> I mean what I'm doing isn't safety critical (just a chat with friends)
2022-09-26 23:00:42 +0200 <moonsheep> but it would still be nice to get some guarantees
2022-09-26 23:01:01 +0200seydar(~seydar@154-27-113-252.starry-inc.net) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2022-09-26 23:01:34 +0200 <[exa]> moonsheep: depends a lot on what you want to do btw
2022-09-26 23:01:37 +0200 <EvanR> what was that haskell DSL which compiled to timing attack resistant opcodes
2022-09-26 23:02:27 +0200 <moonsheep> [exa]: I'm writing a chat directly on top of TCP. I know I could just use TLS but I want to learn about this stuff at a lower level
2022-09-26 23:02:47 +0200[exa]gasps
2022-09-26 23:02:56 +0200 <moonsheep> I know
2022-09-26 23:03:19 +0200 <EvanR> oh then use homebrew crypto xD
2022-09-26 23:03:30 +0200 <[exa]> ok well you might have a pretty good chance but it needs a lot of good programming practice, and it's still likely gonna get pwned
2022-09-26 23:03:34 +0200 <moonsheep> hey I'm not *that* insane
2022-09-26 23:03:51 +0200 <moonsheep> [exa]: eh I don't mind too much if it gets pwned
2022-09-26 23:03:57 +0200 <EvanR> if the purpose is learning then then purpose is not serious usage anyway
2022-09-26 23:04:00 +0200 <moonsheep> I don't intend to use it to store all my tax fraud data
2022-09-26 23:04:06 +0200 <[exa]> there should be DH-style key exchanges exposed in HsOpenSSL
2022-09-26 23:04:13 +0200 <Clint> you should do janitorial work on https://hackage.haskell.org/package/nettle , it'll be fun
2022-09-26 23:04:36 +0200 <moonsheep> oh didn't know about nettle
2022-09-26 23:04:45 +0200 <moonsheep> will give it a look
2022-09-26 23:04:47 +0200 <Clint> it's undermaintained
2022-09-26 23:06:33 +0200michalz(~michalz@185.246.207.218) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-09-26 23:06:38 +0200justsomeguy(~justsomeg@user/justsomeguy)
2022-09-26 23:09:52 +0200 <[exa]> moonsheep: just an idea to make it a bit easier, you might first want to safeguard individual messages rather than the whole connection, that's much easier to implement and (given you don't rely too much on the TCP connection status) usually sufficient
2022-09-26 23:10:41 +0200 <EvanR> take each message and rot13 it, as opposed to rot13ing the whole stream
2022-09-26 23:12:08 +0200rockymarine(~rocky@user/rockymarine) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2022-09-26 23:12:16 +0200 <moonsheep> [exa]: actually that was the plan anyway
2022-09-26 23:12:43 +0200seydar(~seydar@154-27-113-252.starry-inc.net)
2022-09-26 23:13:16 +0200 <moonsheep> I mentioned TLS because it could be used as a drop-in replacement but I do want each message to be encrypted (and signed) individually
2022-09-26 23:14:42 +0200 <EvanR> it's a good thing we use encryption to connect to IRC so no one can listen in
2022-09-26 23:15:23 +0200 <moonsheep> oh yeah forgot to mention
2022-09-26 23:15:29 +0200 <moonsheep> unlike IRC i plan to make the encryption end-to-end
2022-09-26 23:15:42 +0200 <moonsheep> so libera can't put words in my mouth I never said
2022-09-26 23:16:17 +0200 <EvanR> you're making a chat network? that can't tell what people are saying?
2022-09-26 23:16:38 +0200 <moonsheep> no, I'm making a very simple chat client meant for use with my friends that's all
2022-09-26 23:16:48 +0200 <EvanR> ok, peer to peer
2022-09-26 23:16:52 +0200 <moonsheep> in fact I don't even bother having a server I just connect clients directly through LAN
2022-09-26 23:17:01 +0200 <moonsheep> yeah but that mostly irrelevant when it comes to cryptography no?
2022-09-26 23:17:15 +0200 <EvanR> you brought up IRC
2022-09-26 23:17:18 +0200 <moonsheep> true
2022-09-26 23:17:29 +0200`2jt(~jtomas@105.red-88-17-232.dynamicip.rima-tde.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2022-09-26 23:17:49 +0200 <EvanR> actually I did
2022-09-26 23:18:14 +0200 <moonsheep> well I did mention that my chat is unlike IRC
2022-09-26 23:18:24 +0200 <moonsheep> either way though, it's not meant to be anything serious
2022-09-26 23:18:44 +0200 <moonsheep> if security considerations were important I obviously wouldn't be implementing a homebrew protocol
2022-09-26 23:18:45 +0200 <sm> you might find simplex chat a good source of ideas
2022-09-26 23:18:49 +0200 <moonsheep> I'd use something more tried-and-tested like PGP
2022-09-26 23:19:02 +0200 <Clint> or OTR
2022-09-26 23:19:05 +0200 <moonsheep> sm: didn't know about it
2022-09-26 23:19:14 +0200mvk(~mvk@2607:fea8:5ce3:8500::778c) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2022-09-26 23:20:55 +0200gmg(~user@user/gehmehgeh) (Quit: Leaving)
2022-09-26 23:21:09 +0200 <sm> seems to use cryptonite
2022-09-26 23:23:48 +0200rockymarine(~rocky@user/rockymarine)
2022-09-26 23:32:51 +0200david(~david@2a01:e34:ec2b:d430:44a:f5ca:9867:d69d)
2022-09-26 23:33:06 +0200 <david> Hello!
2022-09-26 23:33:11 +0200rockymarine(~rocky@user/rockymarine) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2022-09-26 23:33:16 +0200mmhat(~mmh@p200300f1c710d3a5ee086bfffe095315.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2022-09-26 23:33:26 +0200 <david> Quick question: Haskell has a reputation to be perfect to build parsers
2022-09-26 23:33:31 +0200seydar(~seydar@154-27-113-252.starry-inc.net) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2022-09-26 23:33:58 +0200 <david> How much line would it take to write something that parses eg 'f(a, g(c, d), e)' into the corresponding tree expression?
2022-09-26 23:36:21 +0200Lycurgus(~juan@user/Lycurgus)
2022-09-26 23:36:22 +0200rockymarine(~rocky@user/rockymarine)
2022-09-26 23:36:28 +0200king_gs(~Thunderbi@2806:103e:29:ac5e:a16e:4ac9:a89b:4d) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2022-09-26 23:37:37 +0200 <moonsheep> david: with parser combinators maybe under 20 lines
2022-09-26 23:37:47 +0200tromp(~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2022-09-26 23:37:53 +0200 <moonsheep> they aren't particularly fast but the code usually looks really nice
2022-09-26 23:47:50 +0200seydar(~seydar@154-27-113-252.starry-inc.net)
2022-09-26 23:49:25 +0200chomwitt(~chomwitt@2a02:587:dc14:f500:93c9:b21b:a5ec:32ba) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2022-09-26 23:51:21 +0200Lycurgus(~juan@user/Lycurgus) (Quit: Exeunt juan@acm.org)
2022-09-26 23:54:51 +0200Kaipii(~Kaiepi@142.68.249.28) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2022-09-26 23:55:13 +0200Kaipii(~Kaiepi@142.68.249.28)