2022/09/16

2022-09-16 00:01:36 +0000jero98772(~jero98772@2800:484:1d80:d8ce:efcc:cbb3:7f2a:6dff)
2022-09-16 00:02:09 +0000 <Axman6> Did not expect for the top result for "reader monad" on DDG to be from dollarshaveclub's engineering blog!
2022-09-16 00:02:36 +0000 <monochrom> I didn't read such an article. I heard people saying "hey this forms a monad" and I worked it out myself. (The most retentive way of learning is reinventing.)
2022-09-16 00:02:53 +0000 <monochrom> But I might point students to Typeclassopedia.
2022-09-16 00:03:56 +0000 <Axman6> hmm, good idea
2022-09-16 00:06:26 +0000 <Axman6> Hmmm, it doesn't really have what I'm after - it mentioned that ((->) e) forms a monad, but I'm looking for something more aimed at the usage of it for dependency injection in real world apps
2022-09-16 00:07:40 +0000 <cacke> hpc idk where you're trying to get
2022-09-16 00:08:29 +0000 <geekosaur> cacke: break the problem down into pieces. for now ignore the question of how to get a random number. what do you do with it once you have it? can you solve that problem?
2022-09-16 00:08:57 +0000matthewmosior(~matthewmo@173.170.253.91)
2022-09-16 00:09:57 +0000nate1(~nate@98.45.169.16)
2022-09-16 00:11:11 +0000 <monochrom> I don't know of such an article.
2022-09-16 00:11:45 +0000 <cacke> but that's exactly what i've been asking. what do i do with the number and the list?
2022-09-16 00:11:59 +0000 <cacke> how do i know what element to remove given a random number?
2022-09-16 00:12:19 +0000 <jackdk> Axman6: the "next level mtl" vid? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZPup5Iuaqw
2022-09-16 00:12:30 +0000 <jackdk> Not an article, admittedly
2022-09-16 00:12:49 +0000 <geekosaur> cacke: you have a number and a list. the list has a length.
2022-09-16 00:13:06 +0000 <geekosaur> you can combine the two to select an element
2022-09-16 00:13:21 +0000matthewmosior(~matthewmo@173.170.253.91) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2022-09-16 00:14:35 +0000nate1(~nate@98.45.169.16) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2022-09-16 00:16:44 +0000 <cacke> how do i select an element
2022-09-16 00:17:08 +0000nate1(~nate@98.45.169.16)
2022-09-16 00:17:11 +0000 <monochrom> Which element do you want to select?
2022-09-16 00:17:32 +0000 <cacke> a random element from my list
2022-09-16 00:17:38 +0000 <jackdk> :t (!!) -- this is an unsafe function but should get you going
2022-09-16 00:17:39 +0000 <lambdabot> [a] -> Int -> a
2022-09-16 00:17:45 +0000 <monochrom> Is that a homework question?
2022-09-16 00:18:36 +0000 <monochrom> Because if it is, I want to see the original real verbatim homework question, not your misinterpretation.
2022-09-16 00:18:51 +0000epolanski(uid312403@id-312403.helmsley.irccloud.com) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2022-09-16 00:20:09 +0000 <monochrom> And if it is not, we can sit back and relax and be general curiosity fiends. For example, what does "random" mean?
2022-09-16 00:21:39 +0000waleee(~waleee@2001:9b0:213:7200:cc36:a556:b1e8:b340) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2022-09-16 00:22:41 +0000beteigeuze(~Thunderbi@p5090d00a.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2022-09-16 00:24:07 +0000ente`(~daemon@inferno.barfooze.de) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2022-09-16 00:24:17 +0000 <monochrom> https://xkcd.com/221/
2022-09-16 00:24:52 +0000 <cacke> xd
2022-09-16 00:28:59 +0000 <cacke> "to "pick a random element" we will use the list of random values that the function gets as its first argument." is what i'm trying to understand. Idk how to use it.
2022-09-16 00:29:40 +0000benin09(~benin@183.82.204.57)
2022-09-16 00:30:51 +0000benin0(~benin@183.82.204.57) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2022-09-16 00:30:52 +0000benin09benin0
2022-09-16 00:31:14 +0000 <pavonia> What is the type of those random elements?
2022-09-16 00:31:49 +0000 <monochrom> Alternatively, that can't be the complete homework question.
2022-09-16 00:32:20 +0000 <cacke> Obviously not, but it's the part I don't understand.
2022-09-16 00:32:55 +0000 <monochrom> Well I understand none of it, since it's incomplete. No one should.
2022-09-16 00:33:13 +0000 <jackdk> it sounds to me like you are to treat the list of doubles as your random source, which you get from somewhere, and you should not care how it is generated.
2022-09-16 00:33:14 +0000 <geekosaur> please state the entire problem, preferably in a pastebin
2022-09-16 00:33:20 +0000 <geekosaur> @where paste
2022-09-16 00:33:21 +0000 <lambdabot> Help us help you: please paste full code, input and/or output at e.g. https://paste.tomsmeding.com
2022-09-16 00:33:29 +0000 <cacke> I can't simplify the problem more than I already have xd
2022-09-16 00:33:41 +0000 <monochrom> No one is asking for any simplification.
2022-09-16 00:33:56 +0000 <monochrom> What part of "original real verbatim" is unclear?
2022-09-16 00:35:57 +0000 <troydm> I'm trying to parse a double String such as "123e-12" into Double using read function, how can I do it safely? I can sometimes get Double overflow but parser succeeds with 0.0 value
2022-09-16 00:36:12 +0000 <monochrom> Text.Read has readMaybe
2022-09-16 00:36:26 +0000 <troydm> that too succeeds with 0.0
2022-09-16 00:36:32 +0000 <troydm> Just 0.0 to be precise
2022-09-16 00:36:32 +0000 <monochrom> Oh, that. I don't know.
2022-09-16 00:36:55 +0000 <monochrom> > read "123e13337" :: Double
2022-09-16 00:36:57 +0000 <lambdabot> Infinity
2022-09-16 00:37:04 +0000 <monochrom> That is not 0 though.
2022-09-16 00:37:10 +0000 <geekosaur> I'm not sure you can without writing your own parser and doing a lot of extra work:P over/underflow behavior is specified by the standard
2022-09-16 00:37:23 +0000 <geekosaur> s/:P/:/
2022-09-16 00:37:37 +0000 <geekosaur> (the IEEE standard, that is, not Haskell)
2022-09-16 00:37:44 +0000wroathe(~wroathe@206-55-188-8.fttp.usinternet.com)
2022-09-16 00:37:44 +0000wroathe(~wroathe@206-55-188-8.fttp.usinternet.com) (Changing host)
2022-09-16 00:37:44 +0000wroathe(~wroathe@user/wroathe)
2022-09-16 00:37:45 +0000cyphase(~cyphase@user/cyphase) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2022-09-16 00:38:02 +0000 <troydm> monochrom: ohh you are right, sorry, maybe I have somehow something mixed up
2022-09-16 00:38:12 +0000 <cacke> jackdk the list of doubles is generated and given to the function, it's done. Don't worry about it. I didn't ask how to generate the numbers.
2022-09-16 00:38:14 +0000 <troydm> it does indeed return Infinity
2022-09-16 00:38:20 +0000 <pavonia> > 123e13337 :: Double
2022-09-16 00:38:21 +0000 <lambdabot> Infinity
2022-09-16 00:38:25 +0000 <monochrom> 123e-13337 would become 0.0 yeah.
2022-09-16 00:38:56 +0000 <troydm> > read "1e-1231231313" :: Double
2022-09-16 00:38:59 +0000 <lambdabot> 0.0
2022-09-16 00:39:02 +0000 <troydm> yup
2022-09-16 00:39:14 +0000 <troydm> > read "1e1231231313" :: Double
2022-09-16 00:39:16 +0000 <lambdabot> Infinity
2022-09-16 00:39:37 +0000 <troydm> so I can basicly check if I have 0.0 or Infinity values and raise exception of overflow then
2022-09-16 00:39:47 +0000henninb(~henninb@97-116-154-134.mpls.qwest.net) (Quit: leaving)
2022-09-16 00:39:53 +0000 <monochrom> I don't know of someone's library that catches would-be overflows and underflows.
2022-09-16 00:40:26 +0000checkum(~checkum@2604:ca00:1f9:4a43::1260:e530) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2022-09-16 00:40:29 +0000 <monochrom> Although, 0.0 is a pretty legit input number.
2022-09-16 00:40:29 +0000ente`(~daemon@inferno.barfooze.de)
2022-09-16 00:40:35 +0000 <pavonia> ^
2022-09-16 00:41:14 +0000 <geekosaur> this is why I said write your own parser
2022-09-16 00:41:33 +0000 <geekosaur> C defines max and min exponents, among other things
2022-09-16 00:41:37 +0000 <troydm> I'm actually doing that inside a megaparsec double parser
2022-09-16 00:41:50 +0000 <troydm> so I'm trying to handle e notation math
2022-09-16 00:42:36 +0000 <monochrom> Perhaps parse to Scientific, then check ranges.
2022-09-16 00:42:42 +0000 <troydm> so I can check if I have e notation specified which results in 0.0 after trying to read double and raise overflow then
2022-09-16 00:42:44 +0000matthewmosior(~matthewmo@173.170.253.91)
2022-09-16 00:43:02 +0000 <troydm> should do the trick
2022-09-16 00:43:17 +0000 <monochrom> (then covert to Double when you are satisfied)
2022-09-16 00:43:29 +0000 <troydm> yup, thx
2022-09-16 00:43:44 +0000 <troydm> > read "-1e-1231231313131" :: Double
2022-09-16 00:43:46 +0000 <lambdabot> -0.0
2022-09-16 00:44:02 +0000 <troydm> > -0.0 == 0.0
2022-09-16 00:44:04 +0000 <lambdabot> True
2022-09-16 00:44:13 +0000 <geekosaur> welcome to IEEE math
2022-09-16 00:44:46 +0000checkum(~checkum@2607:fb90:581:a215:c12e:2477:e1f6:4d9f)
2022-09-16 00:45:21 +0000cyphase(~cyphase@user/cyphase)
2022-09-16 00:47:24 +0000matthewmosior(~matthewmo@173.170.253.91) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2022-09-16 00:48:32 +0000 <cacke> What's wrong with my question?
2022-09-16 00:49:03 +0000 <geekosaur> It is incomplete
2022-09-16 00:49:22 +0000 <geekosaur> Like, nobody had any idea that a *list* of Doubles was involved until you bothered to mention it
2022-09-16 00:49:37 +0000 <geekosaur> How much else does nobody here know yet?
2022-09-16 00:49:57 +0000checkum(~checkum@2607:fb90:581:a215:c12e:2477:e1f6:4d9f) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2022-09-16 00:51:07 +0000 <cacke> I clearly said that the function took 2 lists as input.
2022-09-16 00:51:57 +0000 <jackdk> "so, lets say i have a function that takes a list of integers as input, and a list of numbers type Double (0-1), say i want to pick a random integer and move it to another list" <- this does not indicate that the list of doubles are the random numbers given to you.
2022-09-16 00:52:39 +0000 <jackdk> We want to help you, but in order to do that we must understand the problem. This is why monochrom was asking for the real exact verbatim question on your homework
2022-09-16 00:58:11 +0000 <cacke> A list of randomly generated numbers type Double (0-1) is given to me, yes.
2022-09-16 01:03:58 +0000checkum(~checkum@172.58.22.205)
2022-09-16 01:04:27 +0000wroathe(~wroathe@user/wroathe) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2022-09-16 01:06:10 +0000stef204(~stef204@user/stef204) (Quit: WeeChat 3.6)
2022-09-16 01:07:42 +0000 <cacke> All i want to do is pick a random element from the input list, remove it and add it to a new list.
2022-09-16 01:08:41 +0000sammelweis(~quassel@c-68-48-18-140.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2022-09-16 01:09:36 +0000 <cacke> but I don't understand what to do with the random number to get the random element
2022-09-16 01:10:07 +0000 <jackdk> Neither do we, because you haven't posted the homework question.
2022-09-16 01:11:05 +0000 <sm> wow, two hours in to this one ?
2022-09-16 01:11:18 +0000albet70(~xxx@2400:8902::f03c:92ff:fe60:98d8) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-09-16 01:11:40 +0000 <cacke> 12 hours for me so I'm actually going crazy
2022-09-16 01:11:56 +0000 <sm> we could show how to pick a random list element, how about that for a start ? have you tried searching the internets ?
2022-09-16 01:12:39 +0000 <cacke> searching the internet is what i've done the whole day
2022-09-16 01:13:32 +0000 <sm> I found these: https://hackage.haskell.org/package/random-extras-0.19/docs/Data-Random-Extras.html#g:4
2022-09-16 01:14:24 +0000 <sm> also this, which doesn't require an extra lib: https://programming-idioms.org/idiom/11/pick-a-random-element-from-a-list/828/haskell
2022-09-16 01:14:50 +0000checkum(~checkum@172.58.22.205) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2022-09-16 01:17:25 +0000albet70(~xxx@2400:8902::f03c:92ff:fe60:98d8)
2022-09-16 01:17:34 +0000matthewmosior(~matthewmo@173.170.253.91)
2022-09-16 01:19:11 +0000smsent a code block: https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/libera.chat/125887dd2d6470c98b5e62679604199f5c4f…
2022-09-16 01:19:47 +0000nate1(~nate@98.45.169.16) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2022-09-16 01:22:11 +0000matthewmosior(~matthewmo@173.170.253.91) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2022-09-16 01:26:40 +0000smfinds there is an actual beginner-friendly api for this, but it requires installing the rando lib:
2022-09-16 01:26:40 +0000sm$ ghci
2022-09-16 01:26:40 +0000smghci> import Rando
2022-09-16 01:26:40 +0000smghci> pickOne [1..10]
2022-09-16 01:26:40 +0000sm5
2022-09-16 01:27:32 +0000 <sm> ghci> :bro Rando
2022-09-16 01:27:32 +0000 <sm> flipCoin :: IO Bool
2022-09-16 01:27:32 +0000 <sm> pickOne :: [x] -> IO x
2022-09-16 01:27:33 +0000 <sm> shuffle :: [x] -> IO [x]
2022-09-16 01:27:47 +0000 <jackdk> That's leading him up the wrong path - the function he's been asked to write is to accept a `[Double]` representing the random stream. But how the individual random numbers are to be used to pick an element is unknown to me, because he has not posted that part of the question.
2022-09-16 01:28:22 +0000 <cacke> because there is no such part, that's why i'm here
2022-09-16 01:28:37 +0000 <sm> clearly after two hours solving a simpler problem is probably a good idea
2022-09-16 01:28:55 +0000 <jackdk> I can think of at least three different ways to use a double to select an item from a list
2022-09-16 01:29:01 +0000 <sm> or anyway, that's what helps me
2022-09-16 01:29:48 +0000 <sm> cacke: did what I showed you help at all ? you didn't say - if not, sorry for the noise
2022-09-16 01:31:30 +0000 <jackdk> It would have been really handy to know that, for example by sharing the complete verbatim real questions as suggested multiple times. What I think would be helpful here is to draw a diagram: Write out a short list of numbers above the real number line <---0--------1----> and think about how to map a number between zero and one into a list index (an integer between zero and "one less than the length of the list")
2022-09-16 01:32:29 +0000sose(~sose@d1pyp7g4yyyyyyyyyyyyt-3.rev.dnainternet.fi) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2022-09-16 01:33:05 +0000 <cacke> sm Aww no worries, i'll save the links for later, just not sure if it's what I need right now
2022-09-16 01:35:12 +0000 <sm> I'm confused, because the first paste seems exactly what you were asking for at one point
2022-09-16 01:35:33 +0000 <cacke> I need to know what to do with my random numbers
2022-09-16 01:36:13 +0000 <sm> try to break the task down into simpler tasks
2022-09-16 01:37:17 +0000 <sm> you said you receive a list of doubles as an argument. Among other things, you'd like to pick a random item from that list ? Or did I get that wrong ?
2022-09-16 01:39:12 +0000 <cacke> I have a function that receives a list of doubles as its first argument, and another list of x elements as its second argument.
2022-09-16 01:39:48 +0000 <sm> a list of x elements ?
2022-09-16 01:40:13 +0000 <cacke> yeah let's just say it's a list with 10 integers
2022-09-16 01:40:20 +0000 <sm> ok
2022-09-16 01:41:06 +0000 <sm> what's your next goal/task ?
2022-09-16 01:41:07 +0000 <jackdk> cacke: Drawing diagrams is helpful: https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/o7a0g5F2/NumberLine.png
2022-09-16 01:42:19 +0000 <cacke> to "pick" a random element, or integer in this case and add it to a new list. The output is a new list.
2022-09-16 01:42:40 +0000 <sm> I showed you how to pick a random element, right ?
2022-09-16 01:43:36 +0000nate1(~nate@98.45.169.16)
2022-09-16 01:43:39 +0000dsrt^(~dsrt@70.88.176.185)
2022-09-16 01:44:23 +0000 <cacke> Yeah, but it doesn't show me how to use the doubles
2022-09-16 01:45:13 +0000 <sm> so "use the doubles" is actually your next task ? what do you mean by use the doubles ?
2022-09-16 01:46:23 +0000xff0x(~xff0x@2405:6580:b080:900:a0ee:ef10:839c:6e73) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2022-09-16 01:47:51 +0000sammelweis(~quassel@2601:401:8200:2d4c:bd9:d04c:7f69:eb10)
2022-09-16 01:48:51 +0000 <sm> Sorry if I'm being pushy. You seemed to be getting the kind of "help" I got in #php yesterday, and I wanted to try to get you unstuck. Perhaps the problem is you've been going for 12 hours.
2022-09-16 01:49:05 +0000xff0x(~xff0x@2405:6580:b080:900:a0ee:ef10:839c:6e73)
2022-09-16 01:50:47 +0000 <cacke> don't worry about it, i know i'm confusing, i guess it's true that my questions have been incomplete :c
2022-09-16 01:51:09 +0000 <jackdk> Did you look at the diagram that I posted, which suggests a way of mapping the range (0..1) to elements of a list?
2022-09-16 01:51:26 +0000matthewmosior(~matthewmo@173.170.253.91)
2022-09-16 01:52:38 +0000gurkenglas(~gurkengla@p548ac72e.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2022-09-16 01:54:12 +0000 <cacke> what if i have a lot of elements?
2022-09-16 01:54:23 +0000 <cacke> and not just 3
2022-09-16 01:54:36 +0000 <jackdk> Draw more diagrams, and think about how the length of the list changes the way the mapping works. Write out a few more examples and look for a pattern
2022-09-16 01:54:51 +0000xff0x(~xff0x@2405:6580:b080:900:a0ee:ef10:839c:6e73) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2022-09-16 01:55:20 +0000 <monochrom> Ugh if that diagram doesn't inspire you the general case, you're truly asking people to do your homework.
2022-09-16 01:55:41 +0000matthewmosior(~matthewmo@173.170.253.91) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2022-09-16 01:55:42 +0000 <jackdk> (When you've had a chance to sleep, check out a copy of Polya's _How to Solve It_ from your local library. It's "about" geometry, but really about problem solving strategy in general, and full of such tactics)
2022-09-16 01:56:40 +0000 <jackdk> Play with the numbers involved -- why is the number "3" appearing all over the diagram?
2022-09-16 01:56:42 +0000 <monochrom> The irony being no one ever saw the homework question.
2022-09-16 01:56:45 +0000 <cacke> i'm not asking anyone to do my homework or i would've pasted my homework question here as soon as i got here.
2022-09-16 01:57:17 +0000 <monochrom> A particular sticking point being why there is a list of Doubles not just one single Double.
2022-09-16 01:58:33 +0000 <monochrom> I would rather see the actual homework question.
2022-09-16 01:58:47 +0000 <monochrom> I refuse to play this telephone game.
2022-09-16 01:59:39 +0000 <monochrom> Do you know telephone games?
2022-09-16 02:00:07 +0000 <glguy> the things people used to use decades ago?
2022-09-16 02:00:14 +0000 <monochrom> haha
2022-09-16 02:01:48 +0000xff0x(~xff0x@2405:6580:b080:900:a0ee:ef10:839c:6e73)
2022-09-16 02:01:55 +0000 <dsal> The modern telephone is primarily a gaming platform for many people.
2022-09-16 02:02:06 +0000 <monochrom> haha
2022-09-16 02:02:49 +0000 <glguy> Oh, that's what monochrom means by playing telephone? Like the ad-fueled mobile games? :)
2022-09-16 02:03:07 +0000 <monochrom> I thought they were pay-to-win.
2022-09-16 02:03:19 +0000glguywaits for the timer to reset to water his crops
2022-09-16 02:03:38 +0000 <monochrom> Even my sisters conceded and pay some money for star dusts or something in Pokemon Go.
2022-09-16 02:04:09 +0000 <monochrom> Oh you're playing one of those farming simulation mobile games? :)
2022-09-16 02:04:26 +0000 <cacke> i agree that the question was incomplete, what im trying to do is get a new list as output, with the elements in a random order, so, 1. pick a random element  2. remove it from the list and add it to a new list   -- repeat. that's why there's a list of doubles.
2022-09-16 02:04:33 +0000 <monochrom> Was Tamagochi the original farming game? >:)
2022-09-16 02:05:51 +0000 <glguy> Mine drowned in the laundry :(
2022-09-16 02:07:08 +0000 <monochrom> Tsumani...
2022-09-16 02:07:19 +0000 <sm> cacke: feel free to ignore this, but that's still unclear - try to describe just the goal, without the proposed recipe. "get a new list .. with the elements in random order" - Is the goal simply to shuffle a list ?
2022-09-16 02:07:38 +0000 <jackdk> Okay, so it sounds like the list of doubles is not an infinite stream, but some finite number of random numbers that select the items to pull. That means we don't have to return the "rest of the stream" or anything like that
2022-09-16 02:07:40 +0000 <cacke> in other words, yeah
2022-09-16 02:08:20 +0000 <sm> indeed jackdk that sounds like a chunk of confusion removed :)
2022-09-16 02:09:08 +0000 <jackdk> We can also banish the word "random" from our description of these problems, because we are given the numbers and cannot know (and therefore must not care) where they came from
2022-09-16 02:10:06 +0000 <jackdk> So. Subproblem: Given a list and a double in the range [0,1), write a function to select one element from the list, returning that element and the rest of the list. What could the type signature of such a function look like?
2022-09-16 02:11:05 +0000riverside(~guyst@109.249.184.216)
2022-09-16 02:11:15 +0000 <riverside> i was asking on #ghc about build issues
2022-09-16 02:11:22 +0000 <riverside> specifically, linking to c libs
2022-09-16 02:11:34 +0000 <riverside> and having to build the c libs in order to get ghc to link to them
2022-09-16 02:12:09 +0000 <riverside> trying to get at something that would incorperate pacman msys2 calls into the cabal build
2022-09-16 02:12:21 +0000 <riverside> am i just describing stack?
2022-09-16 02:12:30 +0000 <maerwald[m]> riverside: cabal is not designed to handle system libs
2022-09-16 02:12:33 +0000 <maerwald[m]> It's out of scope
2022-09-16 02:13:03 +0000 <maerwald[m]> stack doesn't do that either
2022-09-16 02:13:15 +0000 <riverside> there is nothing we can do to help the user interface with the C side?
2022-09-16 02:13:44 +0000 <riverside> i guess its just i see people calling pacman with stack to access the msys2 environment
2022-09-16 02:14:30 +0000 <riverside> and idk, i assume that stack kind of handles the paths of its the mingw64 filesystem it creates
2022-09-16 02:14:35 +0000 <maerwald[m]> ghcup run -- pacman -Sy foo
2022-09-16 02:14:52 +0000 <riverside> ok, so ghcup is repllacing stack for that, good
2022-09-16 02:15:32 +0000 <riverside> nice to see something so haskell adjacent directly accessing over pacman there
2022-09-16 02:15:42 +0000 <riverside> instead of having to go via mingw?
2022-09-16 02:15:45 +0000 <cacke> jackdk i have the type signature in my code already
2022-09-16 02:16:15 +0000 <riverside> like, it has to be; prefix=/opt/local/x86_64-w64-mingw32
2022-09-16 02:16:18 +0000 <jackdk> for the subproblem I suggested? What did you come up with?
2022-09-16 02:16:40 +0000 <riverside> sorry, pacman -S mingw-w64-x86_64-SDL2
2022-09-16 02:17:11 +0000 <riverside> how does ghcup "be like mingw" if thats "what the distribution targets"
2022-09-16 02:17:42 +0000 <cacke> Oh wait i misread
2022-09-16 02:19:49 +0000 <cacke> that's what i don't know. given a list and a double, how do i select an element?
2022-09-16 02:19:52 +0000 <riverside> and can a call to ghcup combine this with a call to cabal install that somehow handles all the paths?
2022-09-16 02:20:10 +0000 <cacke> it's what i've been trying to understand the whole day
2022-09-16 02:20:12 +0000 <jackdk> did you study the diagram I posted, and write some examples of your own with other lengths?
2022-09-16 02:20:45 +0000 <riverside> cacke: floor?
2022-09-16 02:20:55 +0000 <riverside> linear interpolation?
2022-09-16 02:20:59 +0000 <cacke> say it's a list with 50 elements
2022-09-16 02:21:00 +0000 <maerwald[m]> riverside: yes
2022-09-16 02:21:10 +0000 <riverside> super!
2022-09-16 02:21:12 +0000 <maerwald[m]> But cabal knows nothing off msys2
2022-09-16 02:21:20 +0000 <maerwald[m]> It won't install anything
2022-09-16 02:21:21 +0000 <riverside> mingw?
2022-09-16 02:21:34 +0000 <maerwald[m]> It has knowledge of pkg config database only
2022-09-16 02:21:45 +0000 <maerwald[m]> The solver uses it
2022-09-16 02:22:01 +0000 <riverside> ok, so it just "builds" the c lib into the pkg config setup somehow?
2022-09-16 02:22:25 +0000 <riverside> or like, what is pacman actually running on?
2022-09-16 02:22:50 +0000 <jackdk> cacke: yes, so write some examples for lists of maybe 1,2,3,4,5 and look for the pattern that lets you generalise over all of them, and therefore handle lists of any finite length
2022-09-16 02:23:14 +0000 <riverside> : [1..5] !! (floor 5.5)
2022-09-16 02:23:28 +0000 <riverside> > [1..5] !! (floor 5.5)
2022-09-16 02:23:30 +0000 <lambdabot> *Exception: Prelude.!!: index too large
2022-09-16 02:23:35 +0000 <riverside> > [1..5] !! (floor 4.5)
2022-09-16 02:23:37 +0000 <lambdabot> 5
2022-09-16 02:24:02 +0000eggplantade(~Eggplanta@108-201-191-115.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
2022-09-16 02:24:13 +0000 <riverside> :t lookupBy
2022-09-16 02:24:14 +0000 <lambdabot> error:
2022-09-16 02:24:15 +0000 <lambdabot> • Variable not in scope: lookupBy
2022-09-16 02:24:15 +0000 <lambdabot> • Perhaps you meant one of these:
2022-09-16 02:24:24 +0000 <riverside> hmm
2022-09-16 02:26:02 +0000matthewmosior(~matthewmo@173.170.253.91)
2022-09-16 02:26:39 +0000 <riverside> > head $ dropWhile (<30) [1..35]
2022-09-16 02:26:41 +0000 <lambdabot> 30
2022-09-16 02:26:53 +0000 <riverside> > head $ dropWhile (<30.5) [1..35]
2022-09-16 02:26:55 +0000 <lambdabot> 31.0
2022-09-16 02:28:08 +0000 <riverside> > head $ filter (\x -> (x-30.5) <= 0.5 ) [1..35]
2022-09-16 02:28:09 +0000 <lambdabot> 1.0
2022-09-16 02:28:25 +0000 <riverside> > head $ filter (\x -> abs (x-30.5) <= 0.5 ) [1..35]
2022-09-16 02:28:27 +0000 <lambdabot> 30.0
2022-09-16 02:28:45 +0000td_(~td@muedsl-82-207-238-033.citykom.de) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2022-09-16 02:29:05 +0000 <riverside> cacke: maybe you could be more specific
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2022-09-16 02:30:17 +0000 <maerwald[m]> riverside: i don't understand your questions. I suggest to read some documentation
2022-09-16 02:30:26 +0000matthewmosior(~matthewmo@173.170.253.91) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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2022-09-16 02:32:33 +0000 <cacke> its 4:30 am 💀
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2022-09-16 02:36:05 +0000 <sm> sleep, come back to it, everything will go easier
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2022-09-16 02:42:14 +0000 <riverside> maerwald, i will consider using ghcup to do my c builds, but for now im trying to see if this sdl2 install with msys2 works
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2022-09-16 02:45:19 +0000 <cacke> I'm frustrated because i've spent so many hours just trying to understand the problem, I can't try to solve it if I don't understand how to use whatever i'm given to solve it.
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2022-09-16 02:47:50 +0000 <Axman6> cacke: ok, I think everyone is getting frustrated, because it's not clear what the goal is. if I called your function with [1,2,3,4,5] and [0.4,0.1,0.6,0.2,0.4], do you know what result you should expect?
2022-09-16 02:49:04 +0000 <cacke> a shuffled list
2022-09-16 02:49:08 +0000 <Axman6> there's a bunch of different ways to do "something" with ome Ints and Doubles, in fact, there's an infinite number of things you could do, so to help you, we need some sort of idea what result you're actually after. should the output list of ints be the same length as the input?
2022-09-16 02:49:14 +0000 <Axman6> ok, so now we're getting somewhere
2022-09-16 02:49:52 +0000 <Axman6> so, one thing we could do is match up each Int with a Double, and then sort the pairs by the double, yes?
2022-09-16 02:50:07 +0000checkum(~checkum@2607:fb90:581:a215:c12e:2477:e1f6:4d9f)
2022-09-16 02:51:31 +0000 <Axman6> > let f is ds = map snd $ sortOn fst $ zip ds is in f [1,2,3,4,5] [0.4,0.1,0.6,0.2,0.4]
2022-09-16 02:51:33 +0000 <lambdabot> [2,4,1,5,3]
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2022-09-16 02:52:07 +0000 <Axman6> that does _something_ - whether it's what you need still isn't clear to me, and feels like it's probably the wrong solution
2022-09-16 02:52:11 +0000 <glguy> It's too bad sortOn is so much more convenient than sortBy; it's kind of a waste in this case
2022-09-16 02:53:03 +0000 <Axman6> actually sortBy would avoid some allocation here, so probably the better option
2022-09-16 02:54:07 +0000 <glguy> It's one of those thing that probably doesn't matter, it just annoys me that it's ever so slightly worse :)
2022-09-16 02:54:18 +0000 <cacke> how do i write that as a function
2022-09-16 02:54:45 +0000 <Axman6> that is a function. do no use it for your homework if you don't understand it though
2022-09-16 02:55:36 +0000 <sm> cacke, frustration is understandable, we've all been there. We're frustrated because the questions and problem descriptions are too unclear and there is too much time lag for a productive conversation
2022-09-16 02:55:40 +0000 <Axman6> (and if you couldn't write it tomorrow without referencing this conversation, definitely do no use it - your lecturers will know its not your own work [and there is a very good chance your lecturer is in here if you're oding a uni course])
2022-09-16 02:56:36 +0000 <cacke> yeah no of course
2022-09-16 02:58:27 +0000matthewmosior(~matthewmo@173.170.253.91)
2022-09-16 03:00:29 +0000 <sm> your responses are the kind of short, low effort ones that people give when they've been banging their head on something for 12 hours. It's a very low bandwidth exchange
2022-09-16 03:02:11 +0000 <sm> it would go easier in person. Or with a fresh mind. Best of luck
2022-09-16 03:02:17 +0000 <cacke> Yeah i'm just speechless because the whole situation i'm in is ridiculous
2022-09-16 03:02:27 +0000 <sm> been there!
2022-09-16 03:02:51 +0000matthewmosior(~matthewmo@173.170.253.91) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2022-09-16 03:05:37 +0000 <Axman6> cacke: we're happy to help (that's why we're here), but keep in mind that if we're asking questions, it's because we need the answers to be able to help you. Having some sleep will definitely help, and there's a pretty good chance your brain will figure out what you're trying to do while you sleep - enjoy your codedreams!
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2022-09-16 03:36:46 +0000 <cacke> I appreciate that you're trying to help. Some people really need to chill though... Good night.
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2022-09-16 07:14:21 +0000 <kuribas> I want to create a compound constraint. One that I can use with Dict: https://hackage.haskell.org/package/hkd-records-0.0.4/docs/Data-HKD-Records.html#t:Dict
2022-09-16 07:14:45 +0000 <kuribas> A type synonym doesn't work, because it cannot be partially applied, and a type family neither.
2022-09-16 07:15:01 +0000akegalj(~akegalj@93-138-36-181.adsl.net.t-com.hr)
2022-09-16 07:15:20 +0000 <kuribas> I can do "class (C1 a, C2 a) => CS a; instance (C1 a, C2 a) => CS a"
2022-09-16 07:15:26 +0000 <kuribas> But I wonder if there is a better way?
2022-09-16 07:16:05 +0000 <kuribas> Worst case I make some TH function to do generate this Constraint...
2022-09-16 07:17:36 +0000 <[Leary]> Perhaps `class (c1 a, c2 a) => (c1 :& c2) a; instance (c1 a, c2 a) => (c1 :& c2) a`?
2022-09-16 07:18:10 +0000 <kuribas> hmm
2022-09-16 07:18:38 +0000 <kuribas> that might work...
2022-09-16 07:20:21 +0000 <kuribas> then I can do MyCompoundConstraint = c1 :& c2
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2022-09-16 07:31:00 +0000 <kuribas> [Leary]: it doesn't work with my usecase, like: type LdDiffConstraints ldt = ( DiffConstraints (LdTypeAttributes ldt), ConstDiffConstraints (LdTypeRelations ldt))
2022-09-16 07:32:17 +0000 <kuribas> "DiffConstraints (LdTypeAttributes ldt)" is not a simple function "LdType -> Constraint"
2022-09-16 07:32:38 +0000 <kuribas> I'd need a type level compose...
2022-09-16 07:34:16 +0000 <[Leary]> Then repeat the trick: `class f (g a) => (f :. g) a; ...`
2022-09-16 07:35:43 +0000 <kuribas> that becomes to complicated...
2022-09-16 07:35:48 +0000 <kuribas> I think I'll go with the TH.
2022-09-16 07:36:44 +0000 <kuribas> something like $(NewConstraint [t| LdDiffConstraints ldt] [t| ( DiffConstraints (LdTypeAttributes ldt), ConstDiffConstraints (LdTypeRelations ldt)) |]
2022-09-16 07:37:04 +0000 <kuribas> well, "newConstraint" better
2022-09-16 07:38:27 +0000 <[Leary]> Sounds more complicated to me, but you do you. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
2022-09-16 07:39:03 +0000 <kuribas> this stuff is easier in idris, since it doesn't have Constraint kinds :)
2022-09-16 07:39:07 +0000 <kuribas> Constraints are just types.
2022-09-16 07:39:22 +0000 <jackdk> kuribas: constraints-extras may have some gadgets that are useful
2022-09-16 07:40:10 +0000 <kuribas> [Leary]: I mean, (:.) has kind (Type -> Type) -> (Type -> Constraint) -> (Type -> Constraint), but then I also need (Type -> Type) -> (Type -> Type), etc...
2022-09-16 07:40:33 +0000 <kuribas> [Leary]: more complicate to write, yes. Not more complicated to use.
2022-09-16 07:40:40 +0000matthewmosior(~matthewmo@173.170.253.91)
2022-09-16 07:44:05 +0000 <kuribas> [Leary]: oh, I guess that's parametric over the kinds.
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2022-09-16 07:45:26 +0000matthewmosior(~matthewmo@173.170.253.91) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2022-09-16 07:45:43 +0000 <[Leary]> It should be (k2 -> Constraint) -> (k1 -> k2) -> (k1 -> Constraint)
2022-09-16 07:46:08 +0000 <kuribas> then I still need composition over types...
2022-09-16 07:46:21 +0000 <[Leary]> It is a bit of a shame we can't write a properly polykinded (:.), and having to use two of them is a bit messy.
2022-09-16 07:46:26 +0000 <jackdk> https://hackage.haskell.org/package/constraints-extras-0.3.2.1/docs/Data-Constraint-Compose.html
2022-09-16 07:47:34 +0000 <kuribas> jackdk: that's just (:.)
2022-09-16 07:47:51 +0000 <[Leary]> Oh, though if it associates correctly, can't you get away with using just this, so long as your composition always ends in Constraint?
2022-09-16 07:48:54 +0000 <kuribas> hmm
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2022-09-16 08:18:45 +0000jakalx(~jakalx@base.jakalx.net) ()
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2022-09-16 08:30:48 +0000 <talismanick> How do I pass a timeout flag to `cabal run`? I have a QuickCheck test hanging (I suspect combinatorial explosion because of naive recursion to check subexpressions in an AST)
2022-09-16 08:31:14 +0000 <talismanick> or, tell me on which cases it's hanging
2022-09-16 08:31:22 +0000 <talismanick> (using HSpec + QuickCheck)
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2022-09-16 08:57:08 +0000 <talismanick> nvm just realized that I accidentally encoded evaluation of SK calculus and it probably generated Y combinators
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2022-09-16 10:10:25 +0000 <albet70> if cabal v1-install package, how to remove it?
2022-09-16 10:12:04 +0000 <albet70> or cabal v2-install --lib scotty-login-session, now I can use module from this package in ghci directly, how to remove this package?
2022-09-16 10:17:17 +0000luffy(~chenqisu1@183.217.201.192)
2022-09-16 10:19:44 +0000_xor(~xor@74.215.182.83)
2022-09-16 10:19:50 +0000 <geekosaur> if yiou v1-installed it, ghc-pkg unregister
2022-09-16 10:20:07 +0000 <geekosaur> if you v2-installed it, find and edit the environment file
2022-09-16 10:20:16 +0000nate1(~nate@98.45.169.16)
2022-09-16 10:22:03 +0000 <albet70> geekosaur , thanks
2022-09-16 10:22:26 +0000 <geekosaur> (if you must actually remove it, for v1 you must read the package registration first and remove the directories and files it points to. for v2-install, the line(s) in the environment file for that package will indicate a directory under ~/.cabal/store; you need to remove that directory too.)
2022-09-16 10:23:35 +0000 <albet70> ~/.ghc/x86_64-linux/environments/default
2022-09-16 10:23:37 +0000 <geekosaur> note that for v2-install this may break other packages that depend on it, since v2-install isn;t really designed to be used with --lib
2022-09-16 10:25:19 +0000 <albet70> use cabal.project is better for multiple project, but v2-install --lib package is too easy to use, even directly in ghci
2022-09-16 10:25:39 +0000nate1(~nate@98.45.169.16) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2022-09-16 10:25:42 +0000 <geekosaur> it also gets you all the problems cabal v2 had
2022-09-16 10:25:46 +0000 <geekosaur> "cabal hell"
2022-09-16 10:25:53 +0000 <geekosaur> er, cabal v1
2022-09-16 10:26:47 +0000 <geekosaur> if you introduce a package conmflict in the environment file, or worse the v1 package db, good luck fixing it
2022-09-16 10:27:18 +0000matthewmosior(~matthewmo@173.170.253.91)
2022-09-16 10:28:34 +0000 <albet70> how you install pandoc by cabal?
2022-09-16 10:28:45 +0000califax_(~califax@user/califx)
2022-09-16 10:28:55 +0000 <albet70> an executive program
2022-09-16 10:29:12 +0000 <geekosaur> "cabal install --exe pandoc" and wait about an hour for all the deps to build 🙂
2022-09-16 10:29:28 +0000 <albet70> an hour...
2022-09-16 10:29:34 +0000 <geekosaur> (the --exe is optional; "cabal i8nstall" is actually intended for use with executables)
2022-09-16 10:29:41 +0000 <geekosaur> pandoc is huge
2022-09-16 10:30:20 +0000 <albet70> then I should use apt or pacman to install it
2022-09-16 10:30:27 +0000 <geekosaur> ideally yes
2022-09-16 10:31:17 +0000 <albet70> I don't familiar with nix, but nowadays I saw some haskell people using it
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2022-09-16 11:22:38 +0000 <kuribas> How do I pass a new Name to TH?
2022-09-16 11:22:41 +0000 <kuribas> as a string?
2022-09-16 11:22:50 +0000 <kuribas> (for example a new class name)
2022-09-16 11:30:25 +0000 <kuribas> hmm, I guess String if it doesn't exist yet.
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2022-09-16 12:46:26 +0000 <kuribas> My TH function worked from the first time. It's just so nice to have ADTs, pattern matching, static types, etc...
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2022-09-16 12:46:40 +0000 <kuribas> Despite TH having a complex model.
2022-09-16 12:46:57 +0000nshepperd(nshepperd@2600:3c03::f03c:92ff:fe28:92c9)
2022-09-16 12:47:07 +0000 <kuribas> People can make claims all they want, but I don't ever have this experience in other languages, lisps, javas, or whatever.
2022-09-16 12:48:31 +0000 <kuribas> lispers may proclaim that macros are easy to write, for sure they aren't easy to debug.
2022-09-16 12:48:57 +0000 <kuribas> while TH is harder to write, the few times I had to write it, most if it just worked.
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2022-09-16 14:31:34 +0000 <sm> nice
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2022-09-16 15:39:45 +0000 <gay9> albet70: people use nix for the same reason they use stack: they need working and reproducible builds
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2022-09-16 16:14:08 +0000matthewmosior(~matthewmo@173.170.253.91)
2022-09-16 16:14:59 +0000 <kuribas> I am getting Cannot derive well-kinded instance of form ‘FieldNames (LdTypeRelations ...)’ Class ‘FieldNames’ expects an argument of kind ‘(* -> *) -> *’ • In the data instance declaration for ‘LdTypeRelations’
2022-09-16 16:15:24 +0000 <kuribas> that seems wrong, the kind of FieldNames is (k -> *) -> *
2022-09-16 16:16:02 +0000aliosablack(~chomwitt@2a02:587:dc14:f500:f5a5:b633:623:44db) (Quit: Leaving)
2022-09-16 16:16:20 +0000 <kuribas> ah, and it works with a standalone.
2022-09-16 16:16:20 +0000chomwitt(~chomwitt@2a02:587:dc14:f500:f5a5:b633:623:44db)
2022-09-16 16:16:32 +0000 <kuribas> Must be another compiler bug.
2022-09-16 16:18:31 +0000matthewmosior(~matthewmo@173.170.253.91) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
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2022-09-16 16:22:08 +0000 <kuribas> Maybe DeriveAnyClass has * hardcoded?
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2022-09-16 18:12:19 +0000 <oats> glguy, heyo, just wondering if there's any particular reason that hookup has an upper bound of base <4.17?
2022-09-16 18:13:01 +0000checkum(~checkum@172.58.30.138)
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2022-09-16 18:13:34 +0000 <oats> the other packages in irc-core are <4.18
2022-09-16 18:20:12 +0000 <int-e> oats: odd? e.g. https://github.com/glguy/irc-core/blob/v2/bot/irc-core-bot.cabal#L26
2022-09-16 18:21:35 +0000 <oats> oh huh. well, /glirc.cabal does
2022-09-16 18:21:53 +0000`2jt(~jtomas@86.red-88-17-188.dynamicip.rima-tde.net) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2022-09-16 18:22:59 +0000 <int-e> Ah, that seems to be the only one. Good question then...
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2022-09-16 19:05:29 +0000 <segfaultfizzbuzz> some blog says that "a language is a set of generators and relations in the style of abstract algebra" -- where can i find a definition of generator and relation?
2022-09-16 19:05:39 +0000 <segfaultfizzbuzz> i have been through abstract algebra and don't remember these terms
2022-09-16 19:05:45 +0000 <mrianbloom> Given a multiparameter typeclass does the order of the parameters matter for instance selection?
2022-09-16 19:06:00 +0000 <segfaultfizzbuzz> here was the source:
2022-09-16 19:06:03 +0000 <segfaultfizzbuzz> https://semantic-domain.blogspot.com/2021/12/what-is-programming-language.html?m=1
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2022-09-16 19:06:46 +0000 <segfaultfizzbuzz> is a generator like, the generating set of a group?
2022-09-16 19:07:59 +0000justsomeguy(~justsomeg@user/justsomeguy) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2022-09-16 19:15:28 +0000koolazer(~koo@user/koolazer)
2022-09-16 19:18:24 +0000 <sammelweis> why can't you use a unary function like (arg `func`) ? E.g. let thousand = (* 1000) in (3.5 `thousand`)
2022-09-16 19:19:17 +0000pavonia(~user@user/siracusa)
2022-09-16 19:19:55 +0000 <geekosaur> because the Haskell Report specifies what that syntax expands to and it's not compatible with that usage
2022-09-16 19:20:03 +0000 <geekosaur> but see the PostfixOperators extension
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2022-09-16 20:09:07 +0000 <byorgey> segfaultfizzbuzz: yes, "generators and relations" is a method of defining/presenting a group, where you specify some abstract generator elements along with some equations that should hold
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2022-09-16 20:11:14 +0000 <byorgey> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presentation_of_a_group
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2022-09-16 20:36:57 +0000 <aaronv> In `class Foo a where type Bar a b` what's the correct terminology for talking about the difference between the `a` and `b` parameters to `Bar`? From error messages I gather that `a` is a "type index" which must "coincide" with the class parameter. Is `b` also a "type index" but which doesn't need to coincide, or is it just a "parameter"?
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2022-09-16 21:04:35 +0000 <oats> if I've changed the "current" ghc version with ghcup, do I need to adjust a project's .cabal file to reflect the new base version?
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2022-09-16 21:06:15 +0000 <hpc> the version of base you're using should be in the range in the .cabal file
2022-09-16 21:06:28 +0000 <hpc> but you don't have to suddenly say the previous version is no longer compatible
2022-09-16 21:06:29 +0000matthewmosior(~matthewmo@173.170.253.91) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2022-09-16 21:06:38 +0000 <hpc> (unless that's true, in which case probably say that :D)
2022-09-16 21:07:03 +0000 <hpc> it's like any other package
2022-09-16 21:07:22 +0000 <Jdorth> Hi everyone, Haskell is part of my advanced course this semester .Hope to learn from everyone here :)
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2022-09-16 22:03:38 +0000tubogram44(~tubogram@user/tubogram) (*.net *.split)
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2022-09-16 22:20:02 +0000 <sm> welcome
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2022-09-16 22:24:04 +0000 <yushyin> a haskell course again? i expect a flood of questions on how to install 'haskell' with ghcup on macos again
2022-09-16 22:24:50 +0000nate1(~nate@98.45.169.16)
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2022-09-16 22:26:05 +0000 <yushyin> maerwald: brace yourself :D
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2022-09-16 22:27:21 +0000 <glguy> oats: I'll look into updating hookup
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2022-09-16 22:41:42 +0000 <glguy> I haven't done much with ghc-9.4 for the glirc repo because not all the deps support 9.4 yet
2022-09-16 22:42:13 +0000 <glguy> but the bound is now updated on hackage
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2022-09-16 23:45:21 +0000 <DigitalKiwi> just tell them to use nix and delegate the problem to someone else
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