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2022/09/13

2022-09-13 00:03:38 +0200Pickchea(~private@user/pickchea) (Quit: Leaving)
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2022-09-13 00:08:17 +0200matthewmosior(~matthewmo@173.170.253.91)
2022-09-13 00:08:45 +0200ec(~ec@gateway/tor-sasl/ec) (Quit: ec)
2022-09-13 00:08:49 +0200justsomeguy(~justsomeg@user/justsomeguy)
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2022-09-13 00:42:16 +0200matthewmosior(~matthewmo@173.170.253.91)
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2022-09-13 01:07:39 +0200matthewmosior(~matthewmo@173.170.253.91)
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2022-09-13 01:35:52 +0200eds7978(~textual@cpe-74-67-208-45.twcny.res.rr.com) (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
2022-09-13 01:35:56 +0200matthewmosior(~matthewmo@173.170.253.91)
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2022-09-13 01:40:40 +0200matthewmosior(~matthewmo@173.170.253.91) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2022-09-13 01:42:51 +0200 <sshine> hi. I'm trying to evaluate some of my own code that appears to hang for very simple input.
2022-09-13 01:43:44 +0200 <sshine> https://gist.github.com/sshine/89367a6886414c56a5b766ba204b5de5 -- I tried to run the code by hand and must surely be skipping something that GHCi is happily repeating infinitely.
2022-09-13 01:44:37 +0200 <sshine> I tried to include the relevant parts. for the actual code, it's 'translate [ADD]': https://github.com/sshine/evm-opcodes/blob/main/src/EVM/Opcode/Labelled.hs#L66
2022-09-13 01:48:07 +0200moet(~moet@mobile-166-170-42-249.mycingular.net)
2022-09-13 01:49:00 +0200 <[Leary]> sshine: I suggest a trace/M at the start of each major function body, just printing the function name and its input. Though it's "just printf debugging", ime it's shockingly effective for "I can't figure out why this loops".
2022-09-13 01:49:42 +0200 <monochrom> printf debugging has always been effective.
2022-09-13 01:50:14 +0200 <monochrom> To me, more advanced debuggers are shockingly ineffective.
2022-09-13 01:50:22 +0200 <darkling> Agreed
2022-09-13 01:50:46 +0200 <[Leary]> Yeah, that's why I quote. I don't really know what the people who say that are thinking.
2022-09-13 01:53:02 +0200 <sshine> [Leary], I'll do that.
2022-09-13 01:53:42 +0200 <hpc> it's pretty obvious why if you realize debugging has never been about interacting with a running program, it's always been about just gathering runtime information
2022-09-13 01:54:10 +0200 <hpc> and the only universal way to get that information is to print it
2022-09-13 01:54:23 +0200 <hpc> since debuggers have to be language-specific to interact with the program at a high enough level to be usable
2022-09-13 01:55:35 +0200 <hpc> if you ever look for talks about the true potential of debuggers and such, you'll find that the unique features of them is stuff like pausing the program to rewrite a function on the fly and then resume it
2022-09-13 01:56:38 +0200frost(~frost@user/frost)
2022-09-13 01:58:04 +0200 <hpc> as it turns out, there's another tool that lets you write code on the fly, print values on demand at runtime, and step through code:
2022-09-13 01:58:07 +0200 <hpc> a repl!
2022-09-13 01:58:19 +0200 <darkling> Time-travel features are common as well -- but that's just collecting *lots* of runtime information and showing it in a different way. (And possibly collecting too much information for the problem at hand)
2022-09-13 01:59:14 +0200 <hpc> yeah, that way lies problems like no longer being able to debug your large program in the first place
2022-09-13 02:00:28 +0200 <hpc> this is probably why ghci has so many traditional debugging features, too
2022-09-13 02:00:35 +0200 <monochrom> But a REPL doesn't let you hotplug code like that. GHC, OCaml, and Racket don't. Only Clojure does.
2022-09-13 02:01:07 +0200 <hpc> monochrom: not in a way that mutates existing expressions
2022-09-13 02:01:27 +0200 <hpc> but i can certainly type "foo = first definition; test foo; foo = second definition; test foo"
2022-09-13 02:01:41 +0200califax(~califax@user/califx) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-09-13 02:02:47 +0200moet(~moet@mobile-166-170-42-249.mycingular.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2022-09-13 02:03:06 +0200 <hpc> and if all my function definitions were IORefs the way they are in typical languages, i would be able to hotplug code exactly like that
2022-09-13 02:03:31 +0200 <hpc> it's monkeypatching as a language feature that does it, not as a debugging feature
2022-09-13 02:04:18 +0200 <monochrom> That's an interesting idea right there.
2022-09-13 02:04:50 +0200 <jackdk> hot code loading + strong typing seems really hard, but Unison managed it somehow
2022-09-13 02:05:48 +0200[itchyjunk](~itchyjunk@user/itchyjunk/x-7353470) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2022-09-13 02:06:06 +0200califax(~califax@user/califx)
2022-09-13 02:08:17 +0200 <hpc> monochrom: yeah, it took me a while to figure it out too, from wondering why i could never figure out the value of actually using a debugger
2022-09-13 02:08:56 +0200 <sshine> oh... eh... what... my tests don't fail.
2022-09-13 02:09:20 +0200 <hpc> i kept seeing people say "just spend some time learning how to use the tools", but never saw anyone say what they did that i couldn't do with just editing my code a bit
2022-09-13 02:09:22 +0200[itchyjunk](~itchyjunk@user/itchyjunk/x-7353470)
2022-09-13 02:09:39 +0200 <hpc> so i gave it the old feynman process step 2, and this is what i came up with :D
2022-09-13 02:10:28 +0200mikoto-chan(~mikoto-ch@164.5.249.78) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2022-09-13 02:11:50 +0200zebrag(~chris@user/zebrag)
2022-09-13 02:12:10 +0200 <sm> sshine: I'm a big fan of building in observability like [Leary] said, but there's also this tool that's in between logging and an interactive debugger: https://hackage.haskell.org/package/breakpoint
2022-09-13 02:12:28 +0200 <hpc> bah, apparently there's another feynman process with different steps - mine is "step 1, write down the problem, step 2, think really hard, step 3, write down the solution"
2022-09-13 02:12:44 +0200 <monochrom> That's the one I know.
2022-09-13 02:13:24 +0200frost(~frost@user/frost) (Quit: Client closed)
2022-09-13 02:13:29 +0200 <monochrom> My exams can be solved by "1. read the question carefully, 2. think really hard, 3. write down one line of code" :)
2022-09-13 02:14:15 +0200 <hpc> i like those sorts of exams
2022-09-13 02:14:27 +0200 <hpc> way back when, one of my professors did exams a lot like that
2022-09-13 02:14:43 +0200 <hpc> if you had really mastered the material, you finished the final in 5 minutes with a perfect score
2022-09-13 02:15:14 +0200 <hpc> if you had enough of a foundation to figure it out as you went, you finished pretty close to the time limit with a perfect score
2022-09-13 02:15:24 +0200 <hpc> and so on and so on
2022-09-13 02:17:28 +0200matthewmosior(~matthewmo@173.170.253.91)
2022-09-13 02:19:34 +0200Tuplanolla(~Tuplanoll@91-159-69-34.elisa-laajakaista.fi) (Quit: Leaving.)
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2022-09-13 02:21:56 +0200matthewmosior(~matthewmo@173.170.253.91) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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2022-09-13 02:23:12 +0200cpli(~cpli@77.47.62.180) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2022-09-13 02:23:23 +0200 <sshine> hm. my test suite is OK with >> L.translate [STOP] `shouldBe` Right [STOP] << and >> L.translate [ADD] `shouldNotBe` Right [SUB] <<, but if I make a false test, like >> L.translate [ADD] `shouldBe` Right [SUB] <<, it'll recurse forever.
2022-09-13 02:23:34 +0200 <sshine> that seems less good of my test.
2022-09-13 02:24:46 +0200cpli(~cpli@77.47.62.180)
2022-09-13 02:26:12 +0200nate1(~nate@98.45.169.16) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2022-09-13 02:28:57 +0200sshinegoes back in history to see when this didn't crash and burn.
2022-09-13 02:34:25 +0200nate1(~nate@98.45.169.16)
2022-09-13 02:39:56 +0200 <dragestil> how do you decode multiple json objects from a string with aeson? i'm getting Nothing from decode "{\"title\": \"hello\"}{\"title\": \"bye\"}" :: Maybe Value or decode "{\"title\": \"hello\"}{\"title\": \"bye\"}" :: Maybe [Value]
2022-09-13 02:40:04 +0200werneta(~werneta@137.79.215.202) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2022-09-13 02:44:09 +0200 <c_wraith> dragestil: you're going to have to work with the Parser directly
2022-09-13 02:44:26 +0200ec(~ec@gateway/tor-sasl/ec) (Quit: ec)
2022-09-13 02:44:37 +0200 <c_wraith> dragestil: https://hackage.haskell.org/package/attoparsec-0.14.4/docs/Data-Attoparsec-ByteString.html#t:Parser
2022-09-13 02:44:47 +0200 <dragestil> c_wraith: ok thanks
2022-09-13 02:44:56 +0200ec(~ec@gateway/tor-sasl/ec)
2022-09-13 02:45:04 +0200 <jackdk> The parsers live in `Data.Aeson.Parser`
2022-09-13 02:45:42 +0200 <c_wraith> well. there's also https://hackage.haskell.org/package/aeson-2.1.0.0/docs/Data-Aeson.html#v:json
2022-09-13 02:46:36 +0200 <c_wraith> But yeah, you're going to have to use attoparsec with one of those parsers, run it until you get a Done, then keep going with the remaining input
2022-09-13 02:47:54 +0200 <jackdk> I didn't realise that it was exported from there too. Thanks c_wraith
2022-09-13 02:50:12 +0200cpli(~cpli@77.47.62.180) (Quit: WeeChat 3.6)
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2022-09-13 02:53:19 +0200lottaquestions(~nick@2607:fa49:503e:7100:c24f:b04e:32d4:e421) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2022-09-13 02:54:01 +0200matthewmosior(~matthewmo@173.170.253.91)
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2022-09-13 03:13:15 +0200 <sshine> haha
2022-09-13 03:13:53 +0200 <sshine> now I understand why positive and negative tests don't fail, but an intentionally failing test loops infinitely: the error is in the pretty-printer.
2022-09-13 03:14:21 +0200 <sshine> the correct tests will just say "OK", and the failing test will try to print the bad example :-D
2022-09-13 03:15:24 +0200xff0x(~xff0x@2405:6580:b080:900:ea2b:58b2:8c6:e38) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
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2022-09-13 03:27:42 +0200L29Ah(~L29Ah@wikipedia/L29Ah) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2022-09-13 03:29:21 +0200matthewmosior(~matthewmo@173.170.253.91)
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2022-09-13 03:34:18 +0200eggplantade(~Eggplanta@108-201-191-115.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
2022-09-13 03:52:55 +0200ec(~ec@gateway/tor-sasl/ec) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-09-13 03:53:17 +0200werneta(~werneta@70-142-214-115.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net)
2022-09-13 03:53:21 +0200ec(~ec@gateway/tor-sasl/ec)
2022-09-13 03:53:25 +0200kimjetwav(~user@2607:fea8:235e:b600:c094:5550:659c:dc9a)
2022-09-13 03:56:54 +0200 <sshine> well, that was a learning experience. I made a small list of all the quirky things I've done since this regression occurred and wasn't detected that made finding the bug harder.
2022-09-13 03:58:45 +0200matthewmosior(~matthewmo@173.170.253.91)
2022-09-13 03:59:19 +0200machinedgod(~machinedg@d198-53-218-113.abhsia.telus.net) (Quit: Lost terminal)
2022-09-13 04:01:50 +0200xff0x(~xff0x@125x103x176x34.ap125.ftth.ucom.ne.jp)
2022-09-13 04:06:54 +0200[itchyjunk](~itchyjunk@user/itchyjunk/x-7353470) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-09-13 04:07:36 +0200matthewmosior(~matthewmo@173.170.253.91) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2022-09-13 04:08:19 +0200justsomeguy(~justsomeg@user/justsomeguy) (Quit: WeeChat 3.5)
2022-09-13 04:09:29 +0200Sylvo(~Sylvo@110-174-240-221.static.tpgi.com.au)
2022-09-13 04:15:38 +0200stef204(~stef204@user/stef204) (Quit: WeeChat 3.6)
2022-09-13 04:18:20 +0200zebrag(~chris@user/zebrag) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2022-09-13 04:30:44 +0200lisbeths(uid135845@id-135845.lymington.irccloud.com)
2022-09-13 04:31:43 +0200fmgornick(~fmgornick@2601:445:4480:c90:c075:a50e:8a70:5ad6)
2022-09-13 04:32:06 +0200 <fmgornick> ?src map
2022-09-13 04:32:06 +0200 <lambdabot> map _ [] = []
2022-09-13 04:32:06 +0200 <lambdabot> map f (x:xs) = f x : map f xs
2022-09-13 04:32:55 +0200td_(~td@94.134.91.96) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2022-09-13 04:34:16 +0200frost(~frost@user/frost) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2022-09-13 04:34:20 +0200td_(~td@muedsl-82-207-238-243.citykom.de)
2022-09-13 04:34:56 +0200 <fmgornick> ?src concatMap
2022-09-13 04:34:56 +0200 <lambdabot> concatMap f = foldr ((++) . f) []
2022-09-13 04:36:11 +0200 <EvanR> ?src concat
2022-09-13 04:36:11 +0200 <lambdabot> concat = foldr (++) []
2022-09-13 04:37:18 +0200 <fmgornick> bruh i got no idea how any of this irc stuff works
2022-09-13 04:37:43 +0200frost(~frost@user/frost)
2022-09-13 04:37:57 +0200lottaquestions(~nick@2607:fa49:503e:7100:ea0c:ba00:cd12:f6bc)
2022-09-13 04:38:27 +0200 <EvanR> what, the bot?
2022-09-13 04:38:51 +0200 <EvanR> no one knows how lambdabot works
2022-09-13 04:39:10 +0200 <EvanR> other than "just fine thanks"
2022-09-13 04:41:14 +0200 <fmgornick> haha yeah lambdabot cool but i still don't even know how i managed to get here with the whole irc client stuff
2022-09-13 04:43:54 +0200finn_elija(~finn_elij@user/finn-elija/x-0085643)
2022-09-13 04:43:54 +0200FinnElija(~finn_elij@user/finn-elija/x-0085643) (Killed (NickServ (Forcing logout FinnElija -> finn_elija)))
2022-09-13 04:43:54 +0200finn_elijaFinnElija
2022-09-13 04:45:57 +0200cpli(~cpli@77.47.62.180) (Quit: WeeChat 3.6)
2022-09-13 04:49:04 +0200 <sm> sshine: nice
2022-09-13 04:52:40 +0200fmgornick(~fmgornick@2601:445:4480:c90:c075:a50e:8a70:5ad6) (WeeChat 3.6)
2022-09-13 04:54:19 +0200matthewmosior(~matthewmo@173.170.253.91)
2022-09-13 04:58:52 +0200matthewmosior(~matthewmo@173.170.253.91) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2022-09-13 05:00:38 +0200kimjetwav(~user@2607:fea8:235e:b600:c094:5550:659c:dc9a) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-09-13 05:00:42 +0200 <jackdk> @botsnack
2022-09-13 05:00:42 +0200 <lambdabot> :)
2022-09-13 05:01:23 +0200eggplantade(~Eggplanta@108-201-191-115.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-09-13 05:06:35 +0200matthewmosior(~matthewmo@173.170.253.91)
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2022-09-13 05:11:06 +0200matthewmosior(~matthewmo@173.170.253.91) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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2022-09-13 05:20:24 +0200jakalx(~jakalx@base.jakalx.net) ()
2022-09-13 05:20:25 +0200jakalx(~jakalx@base.jakalx.net)
2022-09-13 05:21:32 +0200Sylvo(~Sylvo@110-174-240-221.static.tpgi.com.au) (Quit: Leaving)
2022-09-13 05:22:04 +0200 <sshine> sm, my list of bitter hindsights: 1. make every commit on master executable (testable, runnable), 2. when you move a file, don't make small subtle changes in the same commit, 3. don't use overlapping instances, 4. test `show`.
2022-09-13 05:22:51 +0200 <sshine> sm, they're all things I'd say "why, of course not!" -- but evidently this was not true of me if I go even just a handful of years back.
2022-09-13 05:23:58 +0200 <sm> I'd find 1 and 2 tough discipline... is that to make bisecting easier ?
2022-09-13 05:28:59 +0200Nuzman(~Out@node-1w7jr9sr9s632yr8ey9duxx5x.ipv6.telus.net)
2022-09-13 05:29:24 +0200cpli(~cpli@77.47.62.180)
2022-09-13 05:29:24 +0200Nuzman(~Out@node-1w7jr9sr9s632yr8ey9duxx5x.ipv6.telus.net) (Client Quit)
2022-09-13 05:34:01 +0200 <mjrosenb> how did overlapping instances fit into these hijinks?
2022-09-13 05:37:00 +0200cpli(~cpli@77.47.62.180) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2022-09-13 05:42:32 +0200nate1(~nate@98.45.169.16)
2022-09-13 05:42:37 +0200matthewmosior(~matthewmo@173.170.253.91)
2022-09-13 05:43:16 +0200 <sshine> mjrosenb, I have this type, Opcode' j, for which Opcode' () had its own Show instance. all other Opcode' j instances had a recursive one that depended on the Opcode' () one. through some dark combination of {-# OVERLAP... #-} and FlexibleInstances, this sorta worked until I... orphaned the Opcode' () instance by moving it into the file I'd reserved for all the Opcode' ()-specific stuff. this made it stop
2022-09-13 05:43:22 +0200 <sshine> working as a base case. instead, the recursively defined, which used 'void :: Functor f => f a -> f ()', started going into infinite recursion because the recursive case depended on the recursive case.
2022-09-13 05:43:49 +0200TheCoffeMaker(~TheCoffeM@user/thecoffemaker) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2022-09-13 05:43:53 +0200 <sshine> mjrosenb, I think... you only go this wrong if you kinda try to do all the bad things. overlapping instances + flexible instances + orphan instances, hahaha.
2022-09-13 05:45:37 +0200TheCoffeMaker(~TheCoffeM@user/thecoffemaker)
2022-09-13 05:45:52 +0200ec(~ec@gateway/tor-sasl/ec) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-09-13 05:46:28 +0200 <sshine> mjrosenb, also, this was broken since December 2020, since everything I did on this library was bump versions / dependency bounds. the tests didn't catch it, because they didn't cover 'show'. and nobody used the library. until apparently today when someone opened a ticket.
2022-09-13 05:46:55 +0200matthewmosior(~matthewmo@173.170.253.91) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2022-09-13 05:47:50 +0200 <sshine> sm, yeah, I basically couldn't figure out what the problem was through print debugging (I was sure it had to do with this fixpoint function), so I just started bisecting from the last time I did an actual, logical change to a function and the library worked.
2022-09-13 05:48:48 +0200 <sm> fun !
2022-09-13 05:48:49 +0200 <sshine> sm, incidentally, the commit just before the commit that broke this didn't compile properly; so I ended up replicating that commit minus the breakage.
2022-09-13 05:49:17 +0200 <sshine> sm, had it compiled, I'd have quickly found out it wasn't that commit.
2022-09-13 05:49:45 +0200 <sshine> sm, if I wanna break something halfway through, I should do it in a branch and merge it once it stops breaking. :-D
2022-09-13 05:50:38 +0200 <sm> indeed. Mine usually do pass tests, but quite possibly the one time I break the rule it will trip me up
2022-09-13 05:52:43 +0200ec(~ec@gateway/tor-sasl/ec)
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2022-09-13 05:55:01 +0200 <sshine> hm. apparently Stackage is still on text-1.2.5.0?
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2022-09-13 09:55:19 +0200matthewmosior(~matthewmo@173.170.253.91)
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2022-09-13 09:57:24 +0200 <dminuoso> I recall GHC has an extension to quality an import with a package name (in case of conflicting module names across packages), but I cant figure out what to look for in the manual.
2022-09-13 09:57:28 +0200 <dminuoso> Does someone have a pointer for me?
2022-09-13 09:57:47 +0200 <geekosaur> PackageImports
2022-09-13 09:57:51 +0200 <dminuoso> Ah thanks!
2022-09-13 09:59:31 +0200coot(~coot@213.134.176.158)
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2022-09-13 11:03:03 +0200odnes(~odnes@5-203-152-64.pat.nym.cosmote.net)
2022-09-13 11:03:40 +0200 <irfan> if there is an ambigous phantom type variable, like `data T a = T Int deriving Show`, is it correct to say that it would always be defaulted to `GHC.Type.Any` during compilation, in a context like, `print (T 1)`?
2022-09-13 11:04:00 +0200 <dminuoso> irfan: No
2022-09-13 11:05:01 +0200 <dminuoso> Oh hold on, I think I may have misread what you meant by GHC.Type.Any
2022-09-13 11:07:18 +0200 <dminuoso> irfan: Yes.
2022-09-13 11:07:24 +0200 <dminuoso> You can observe this with -ddump-simpl
2022-09-13 11:07:36 +0200 <dminuoso> main :: IO () [GblId] main = print @(T GHC.Types.Any) (Main.$fShowT @GHC.Types.Any) (Main.T @GHC.Types.Any (GHC.Types.I# 1#))
2022-09-13 11:09:48 +0200tromp(~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl)
2022-09-13 11:10:36 +0200 <irfan> dminuoso: thanks a lot for answering.
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2022-09-13 11:39:59 +0200[Leary](~Leary]@user/Leary/x-0910699)
2022-09-13 11:41:02 +0200wonko(~wjc@2a01:e0a:4f9:6500:7c3e:1edd:d64c:344f)
2022-09-13 11:41:35 +0200cacke(~cacke@mainpc.lha.sgsnet.se)
2022-09-13 11:42:09 +0200mbuf(~Shakthi@195.69.96.100)
2022-09-13 11:42:32 +0200mbuf(~Shakthi@195.69.96.100) ()
2022-09-13 11:49:20 +0200econo(uid147250@user/econo) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2022-09-13 11:49:23 +0200euandreh(~euandreh@179.214.113.107) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2022-09-13 11:49:37 +0200matthewmosior(~matthewmo@173.170.253.91)
2022-09-13 11:49:41 +0200kritzefitz(~kritzefit@debian/kritzefitz)
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2022-09-13 11:52:42 +0200 <kuribas> isn't type defaulting only done in ghci?
2022-09-13 11:53:14 +0200coot(~coot@2a02:a310:e241:1b00:ec1a:e9df:79ac:66ba) (Quit: coot)
2022-09-13 11:53:14 +0200 <kuribas> So a phantom type needs to be instantiated in ghc.
2022-09-13 11:53:27 +0200coot(~coot@2a02:a310:e241:1b00:ec1a:e9df:79ac:66ba)
2022-09-13 11:53:40 +0200 <geekosaur> there's ExtendedDefaultRules, but there is also GHC.Types.Any
2022-09-13 11:54:30 +0200matthewmosior(~matthewmo@173.170.253.91) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2022-09-13 11:55:15 +0200 <geekosaur> I think ghc knows how to use the latter when the result can't affect type resolution
2022-09-13 11:55:52 +0200olle(~olle@i5E866D87.versanet.de) ()
2022-09-13 11:57:55 +0200 <kuribas> > length []
2022-09-13 11:57:57 +0200 <lambdabot> 0
2022-09-13 12:12:21 +0200gurkenglas(~gurkengla@p548ac72e.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2022-09-13 12:12:22 +0200avoniap(~gurkengla@p548ac72e.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2022-09-13 12:20:22 +0200cfricke(~cfricke@user/cfricke) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2022-09-13 12:21:39 +0200coot(~coot@2a02:a310:e241:1b00:ec1a:e9df:79ac:66ba) (Quit: coot)
2022-09-13 12:21:55 +0200coot(~coot@213.134.176.158)
2022-09-13 12:22:38 +0200Pickchea(~private@user/pickchea) (Quit: Leaving)
2022-09-13 12:25:18 +0200xff0x(~xff0x@125x103x176x34.ap125.ftth.ucom.ne.jp) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2022-09-13 12:25:55 +0200matthewmosior(~matthewmo@173.170.253.91)
2022-09-13 12:26:37 +0200acidjnk(~acidjnk@p200300d6e7137a30e5db8b0af6c36aac.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2022-09-13 12:27:05 +0200 <int-e> > length (1,2)
2022-09-13 12:27:07 +0200 <lambdabot> 1
2022-09-13 12:30:21 +0200matthewmosior(~matthewmo@173.170.253.91) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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2022-09-13 12:37:03 +0200ph88(~ph88@95.90.247.31) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2022-09-13 12:40:08 +0200 <kuribas> what's so nice about haskell is that it is predictable and easy to reason about.
2022-09-13 12:41:17 +0200dminuosostares at this haskell code and is trying really hard to reason about how and why the GHC is able to twist it to the point of being nearly as fast as handwritten primops code
2022-09-13 12:41:56 +0200akegalj(~akegalj@cpe-94-253-204-81.zg2.cable.xnet.hr)
2022-09-13 12:41:58 +0200 <kuribas> dminuoso: which code?
2022-09-13 12:42:02 +0200 <kuribas> it's magick :)
2022-09-13 12:42:11 +0200 <dminuoso> Pretty sure its not using imagemagick
2022-09-13 12:43:07 +0200euandreh(~euandreh@179.214.113.107)
2022-09-13 12:43:19 +0200 <kuribas> dminuoso: you could look at the core and stg and each separate optimization step.
2022-09-13 12:43:37 +0200 <kuribas> it's only some 30 or so :)
2022-09-13 12:44:10 +0200 <dminuoso> That are heavily intertwined and run many times.
2022-09-13 12:44:14 +0200 <dminuoso> :)
2022-09-13 12:45:01 +0200 <dminuoso> The GHC simplifier is the result of an organically executed genetic algorithm.
2022-09-13 12:45:37 +0200 <int-e> But GHC doesn't make the {-# RULES #-}
2022-09-13 12:46:34 +0200 <kuribas> I wonder how a compiler compares to a symbolic algebra system, since both are rewrite systems...
2022-09-13 12:55:35 +0200ph88(~ph88@2a02:8109:9e00:71d0:3578:dbbf:f7b2:91f0)
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2022-09-13 13:06:21 +0200mbuf(~Shakthi@195.69.96.100)
2022-09-13 13:07:00 +0200michalz(~michalz@185.246.204.89) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2022-09-13 13:09:46 +0200 <qrpnxz> I've been investigating methods of selecting effect instances in a monad stack, and it occur to me that if instead of parameterizing on the monad, we parameterize on the transformer, then it becomes simple, because then you simply `lift` to the transformer you care about.
2022-09-13 13:09:59 +0200L29Ah(~L29Ah@wikipedia/L29Ah)
2022-09-13 13:10:02 +0200Katarushisu(~Katarushi@cpc147790-finc20-2-0-cust502.4-2.cable.virginm.net) (Quit: The Lounge - https://thelounge.chat)
2022-09-13 13:10:34 +0200Katarushisu(~Katarushi@cpc147790-finc20-2-0-cust502.4-2.cable.virginm.net)
2022-09-13 13:11:00 +0200bontaq(~user@ool-45779fe5.dyn.optonline.net)
2022-09-13 13:11:03 +0200 <maralorn> Will there be an online stream for the https://www.haskell.org/haskell-symposium/2022/index.html ?
2022-09-13 13:12:02 +0200xff0x(~xff0x@ai071162.d.east.v6connect.net)
2022-09-13 13:14:38 +0200chele(~chele@user/chele)
2022-09-13 13:17:37 +0200euandreh(~euandreh@179.214.113.107)
2022-09-13 13:20:53 +0200 <dminuoso> qrpnxz: What do you mean by "parametrize on the transformer"?
2022-09-13 13:24:21 +0200 <qrpnxz> dminuoso: I'm playing around with something like this: class (MonadTrans t, Monad m, Monad (t m)) => StringWriter t m where write :: String -> t m ()
2022-09-13 13:24:56 +0200 <qrpnxz> so a func that uses this would look like `StringWriter t m => a -> b -> t m c`
2022-09-13 13:25:48 +0200 <qrpnxz> if you used more than one you'd have like `(StringWriter w1 _, StringWriter w2 _) => a -> b -> w1 (w2 m) c`
2022-09-13 13:25:52 +0200 <dminuoso> Why do you need the MonadTrans here anyway?
2022-09-13 13:26:00 +0200 <dminuoso> It seems.. useless?
2022-09-13 13:26:02 +0200frost(~frost@user/frost) (Quit: Client closed)
2022-09-13 13:26:20 +0200euandreh(~euandreh@179.214.113.107) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2022-09-13 13:26:21 +0200 <qrpnxz> do you consider the Monad constraint in MonadIO useless?
2022-09-13 13:26:37 +0200 <qrpnxz> sure, you can do without
2022-09-13 13:28:07 +0200 <dminuoso> qrpnxz: In case of MonadIO it is because there's additional laws that need to be satisfied.
2022-09-13 13:28:19 +0200 <dminuoso> Which by themselves already impose a monad constraint.
2022-09-13 13:29:01 +0200wonko(~wjc@2a01:e0a:4f9:6500:7c3e:1edd:d64c:344f) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2022-09-13 13:29:12 +0200mbuf(~Shakthi@195.69.96.100) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2022-09-13 13:29:21 +0200 <dminuoso> But Im not sure how StringWriter could potentially benefit from it. In fact, it makes it *less* useful because you can only use it on transformers - but I doubt this relationship is necessary at all for StringWriter to work.
2022-09-13 13:29:22 +0200 <qrpnxz> well i'd imagine you'd have some laws here too idk. The point is that you pick the instance by just lifting
2022-09-13 13:29:57 +0200 <dminuoso> Sure, but you dont need MonadTrans as a superclass here.
2022-09-13 13:29:58 +0200mbuf(~Shakthi@195.69.96.100)
2022-09-13 13:30:15 +0200 <dminuoso> Being able to lift is orthogonal to "writing a string", no?
2022-09-13 13:30:37 +0200 <dminuoso> Consider, if you have a handcrafted monad `newtype MyMonad a = ...`, you couldnt possibly make it an instance of StringWriter
2022-09-13 13:30:42 +0200darkstardevx(~darkstard@50.53.212.60) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2022-09-13 13:30:49 +0200ec(~ec@gateway/tor-sasl/ec) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-09-13 13:30:50 +0200 <qrpnxz> i have conceded you can do without. I can just add the constraint at use site
2022-09-13 13:31:13 +0200 <dminuoso> Which seems silly, since if you have some `T M` that would be valid, a `newtype Q a = Q (T M a)` suddenly would not be valid anymore
2022-09-13 13:31:17 +0200 <qrpnxz> well that could work too, you just make the transformer IdentityT
2022-09-13 13:31:28 +0200 <dminuoso> Winning you.. nothing.
2022-09-13 13:31:29 +0200 <qrpnxz> but then you don't have flexibility on the m
2022-09-13 13:31:38 +0200 <dminuoso> Except inconveniening yourself
2022-09-13 13:31:50 +0200ec(~ec@gateway/tor-sasl/ec)
2022-09-13 13:32:22 +0200 <qrpnxz> the way i'm testing using it is all extra functionality goes on the `t`, but i have that `m` as a parameter too so that you can delegate to the base monad for MonadIO for example
2022-09-13 13:32:45 +0200euandreh(~euandreh@179.214.113.107)
2022-09-13 13:33:05 +0200 <qrpnxz> so i have for example `instance MonadIO m => Writer MyWriter m where ...`
2022-09-13 13:33:28 +0200lyle(~lyle@104.246.145.85)
2022-09-13 13:33:33 +0200 <qrpnxz> where MyWriter is `ReaderT (IORef String) m`
2022-09-13 13:33:49 +0200mbuf(~Shakthi@195.69.96.100) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2022-09-13 13:34:03 +0200 <qrpnxz> but you can do MutVar and PrimMonad, or StateT and any monad
2022-09-13 13:35:31 +0200 <qrpnxz> the other thing i'm playing with is using a proxy value and passing that to the methods. Works better because you just pass the proxy for the one you want, nothing like (lift . lift . lift . lift) could every happen, but it requires creating pass-through instances
2022-09-13 13:35:54 +0200 <qrpnxz> whereas this uses more general lifting capabilities
2022-09-13 13:36:26 +0200zachel(~zachel@user/zachel) (Quit: DIsconnected: v7+nano)
2022-09-13 13:36:36 +0200 <dminuoso> That's nothing new. You obtain that by just having mtl-style typeclasses
2022-09-13 13:36:42 +0200 <dminuoso> See MonadState
2022-09-13 13:36:48 +0200 <dminuoso> The lifting happens automatically via instances
2022-09-13 13:36:56 +0200 <dminuoso> Except there's on obscure MonadTrans demand
2022-09-13 13:37:16 +0200 <qrpnxz> MonadState does not have a type tag to pick instance, this is something different, but does work similar to those normal mtl classes
2022-09-13 13:37:23 +0200zachel(~zachel@user/zachel)
2022-09-13 13:37:38 +0200 <dminuoso> I dont understand what you mean by "tag to pick instance"
2022-09-13 13:37:41 +0200 <qrpnxz> this second method doesn't do the parameterized monadtrans
2022-09-13 13:37:44 +0200 <qrpnxz> one sec
2022-09-13 13:37:44 +0200matthewmosior(~matthewmo@173.170.253.91)
2022-09-13 13:38:32 +0200 <qrpnxz> it looks like this `class Writer t m where write :: p s -> String -> m ()` and your run function would look like `runWriter :: (forall s. Proxy s -> MyWriter s a) -> m a`
2022-09-13 13:38:56 +0200 <lortabac> there was a library that did something similar, that is mtl + phantom type to select the instance
2022-09-13 13:39:27 +0200 <qrpnxz> `p s` should read `p t`, sorry
2022-09-13 13:40:27 +0200 <lortabac> I can't find it anymore, it was called something like 'ether'
2022-09-13 13:40:29 +0200coot(~coot@213.134.176.158) (Quit: coot)
2022-09-13 13:41:32 +0200mbuf(~Shakthi@195.69.96.100)
2022-09-13 13:42:06 +0200matthewmosior(~matthewmo@173.170.253.91) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2022-09-13 13:42:18 +0200frost(~frost@user/frost)
2022-09-13 13:43:21 +0200 <qrpnxz> I found one blog post that talk about doing something similar, so it likely may be in a library out there somewhere for sure.
2022-09-13 13:43:35 +0200 <lortabac> apparently it's deprecated
2022-09-13 13:43:38 +0200 <lortabac> @hackage ether
2022-09-13 13:43:38 +0200 <lambdabot> https://hackage.haskell.org/package/ether
2022-09-13 13:44:08 +0200bitdex(~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex) (Quit: = "")
2022-09-13 13:44:11 +0200dminuosofinds himself disliking effect systems more and more
2022-09-13 13:47:26 +0200euandreh(~euandreh@179.214.113.107) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2022-09-13 13:47:32 +0200 <qrpnxz> if the method just look like `o -> String -> IO ()`, there be no problem. This is what you have in Java, but in the search for that extra power to thread other kind of monadic effects through the code and just be more general then we get mtl style, and more.
2022-09-13 13:47:58 +0200azimut(~azimut@gateway/tor-sasl/azimut)
2022-09-13 13:50:10 +0200 <dminuoso> qrpnxz: I generally just have some `ReaderT Env IO`. If I need mutability, I keep IORef's in that Env. If I need custom sequencing logic, I invent custom operators >|>, and so forth.
2022-09-13 13:50:37 +0200 <dminuoso> The brilliant thing about sticking to ReaderT and isomorphic things is being able to MonadUnliftIO
2022-09-13 13:50:47 +0200 <dminuoso> It keeps things simple, understandable, communicatable
2022-09-13 13:54:08 +0200euandreh(~euandreh@179.214.113.107)
2022-09-13 13:56:14 +0200 <qrpnxz> lortabac: ohhh, i like that. I see how it works.
2022-09-13 13:56:44 +0200 <qrpnxz> yeah, ReaderT pretty good
2022-09-13 14:02:44 +0200waleee(~waleee@2001:9b0:213:7200:cc36:a556:b1e8:b340) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2022-09-13 14:05:37 +0200zachel(~zachel@user/zachel) (Quit: DIsconnected: v7+nano)
2022-09-13 14:12:20 +0200matthewmosior(~matthewmo@173.170.253.91)
2022-09-13 14:16:49 +0200 <tdammers> yeah, so, the general idea is that if your monad stack involves IO, then you already have exceptions, mutability, concurrency, and, well, IO, covered, so there's not much use adding ExceptT and StateT and such into the mix
2022-09-13 14:16:52 +0200matthewmosior(~matthewmo@173.170.253.91) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2022-09-13 14:18:18 +0200 <maerwald[m]> tdammers: ExceptT allows to distinguish between expected and unexpected exceptions to a degree
2022-09-13 14:19:21 +0200 <tdammers> I've never been a fan of the "expected/unexpected exception" terminology. If it's expected, then it's not really an exception, just a program state that requires a short-circuiting code path maybe.
2022-09-13 14:19:45 +0200 <maerwald[m]> Yes
2022-09-13 14:19:54 +0200 <maerwald[m]> ExceptT is not an exception
2022-09-13 14:19:56 +0200 <maerwald[m]> It's an Either
2022-09-13 14:20:01 +0200 <tdammers> I mean, the only reasonably objective distinction you can make is "exceptions that we can handle" and "exceptions that we can't/won't handle"
2022-09-13 14:20:30 +0200 <maerwald[m]> You catch the exceptions and turn them into values
2022-09-13 14:20:31 +0200 <tdammers> Also that, yes. Should have called it EitherT (which I believe also exists somewhere out there)
2022-09-13 14:21:09 +0200 <maerwald[m]> So your own API boundaries can be expected to not throw true exceptions. And if they do, all is lost
2022-09-13 14:21:17 +0200 <geekosaur> there was a decision that Either/EitherT is agnostic (that is, a Left is as valid as a Right), iirc
2022-09-13 14:21:46 +0200 <geekosaur> whereas ExceptT considers Right a value and Left an exception
2022-09-13 14:21:47 +0200 <tdammers> IMO the "valid" part is interpretation.
2022-09-13 14:22:31 +0200 <tdammers> The right bias of Either/EitherT/ExceptT however is an emergent property, not a matter of decision-making.
2022-09-13 14:24:49 +0200mikoto-chan(~mikoto-ch@164.5.249.78) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2022-09-13 14:25:19 +0200cpli(~cpli@77.47.62.180)
2022-09-13 14:25:45 +0200 <tdammers> It follows from how the right type argument is the last one in the type constructor (Either a b), so the Functor, Applicative and Monad instances of Either have to use Right as return, not Left. And by extension, the same goes for both EitherT and ExceptT
2022-09-13 14:29:33 +0200 <maerwald[m]> The only alternative is testing all exceptions branches and then keep your documentation in sync with your tests
2022-09-13 14:29:39 +0200 <qrpnxz> I think of ExceptT more as either for temporarily working with Either returning functions nicely, or for a pure implementation of a generic error interface. I don't see a problem with mixing ExceptT and IO in the first case, but in the second, it's probably a waste of time.
2022-09-13 14:30:47 +0200cfricke(~cfricke@user/cfricke) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2022-09-13 14:30:47 +0200mbuf(~Shakthi@195.69.96.100) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2022-09-13 14:32:31 +0200mbuf(~Shakthi@195.69.96.100)
2022-09-13 14:34:03 +0200 <dminuoso> Sure, I mean using runMaybeT or runExceptT locally is really neat. I have a few places where it cleans up the code logic immensely. But those are usually limited to do-blocks of less than half a dozen lines.
2022-09-13 14:34:27 +0200 <tdammers> Exactly. It's fine for those, but it has no place in an AppM stack
2022-09-13 14:36:03 +0200 <maerwald[m]> tdammers: you mean like servants Handler xD
2022-09-13 14:36:07 +0200 <maerwald[m]> https://hackage.haskell.org/package/servant-server-0.19.1/docs/Servant-Server-Internal-Handler.htm…
2022-09-13 14:36:44 +0200 <dminuoso> maerwald[m]: That's no problem. toHandler :: Logger -> StartupEnv -> FreyjaM a -> Handler a
2022-09-13 14:36:56 +0200 <dminuoso> genericServeTWithContext is a blessing
2022-09-13 14:37:15 +0200 <dminuoso> If you can survive its glorios type signature
2022-09-13 14:37:23 +0200 <dminuoso> genericServeTWithContext :: forall (routes :: * -> *) (m :: * -> *) (ctx :: [*]) . (GenericServant routes (AsServerT m), GenericServant routes AsApi, HasServer (ToServantApi routes) ctx, HasContextEntry (ctx .++ DefaultErrorFormatters) ErrorFormatters, ServerT (ToServantApi routes) m ~ ToServant routes (AsServerT m)) => (forall a . m a -> Handler a) -> routes (AsServerT m) -> Context ctx ->
2022-09-13 14:37:25 +0200 <dminuoso> Application
2022-09-13 14:38:03 +0200 <dminuoso> If I had a chance to learn Haskell from scratch, I think I would avoid servant *shrugs*
2022-09-13 14:38:35 +0200 <dminuoso> By the way, what's the recommended way to identify whether or not the haskell program is running in an interactive shell?
2022-09-13 14:38:54 +0200 <maerwald[m]> I started to easily understand those type sigs when I stopped thinking they have anything declarative in them.
2022-09-13 14:40:12 +0200 <dminuoso> Yeah. I mean they are just an artifact of their internal machinery. You can essentially just ignore the entire context.
2022-09-13 14:40:31 +0200 <dminuoso> Then it becomes some opaqe: (forall a . m a -> Handler a) -> routes (AsServerT m) -> Context ctx -> Application
2022-09-13 14:40:40 +0200akegalj(~akegalj@cpe-94-253-204-81.zg2.cable.xnet.hr) (Quit: leaving)
2022-09-13 14:40:42 +0200 <maerwald[m]> I used to think there must be a design behind it
2022-09-13 14:40:47 +0200 <maerwald[m]> Until I read the servant code
2022-09-13 14:41:01 +0200 <dminuoso> It is a curious experiment like xmonad.
2022-09-13 14:41:14 +0200 <maerwald[m]> There's not too many way to do things on type level
2022-09-13 14:41:28 +0200 <dminuoso> Yup
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2022-09-13 17:49:20 +0200docter_d(~docter_d@39-183-142-46.pool.kielnet.net) ()
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2022-09-13 18:11:41 +0200OpenSourceLinux
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2022-09-13 18:21:40 +0200eggplantade(~Eggplanta@108-201-191-115.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
2022-09-13 18:22:10 +0200|beowulf|(florian@sourcemage/mage/beowulf) (Quit: = "")
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2022-09-13 18:30:29 +0200fjMSX(~hypni2p@128-68-149-52.broadband.corbina.ru)
2022-09-13 18:30:49 +0200matthewmosior(~matthewmo@173.170.253.91) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2022-09-13 18:31:51 +0200matthewmosior(~matthewmo@173.170.253.91) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2022-09-13 18:37:47 +0200matthewmosior(~matthewmo@173.170.253.91) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2022-09-13 18:40:29 +0200matthewmosior(~matthewmo@173.170.253.91)
2022-09-13 18:40:55 +0200fmgornick(~fmgornick@131.212.251.165)
2022-09-13 18:41:17 +0200 <fmgornick> ?src foldl
2022-09-13 18:41:18 +0200 <lambdabot> foldl f z [] = z
2022-09-13 18:41:18 +0200 <lambdabot> foldl f z (x:xs) = foldl f (f z x) xs
2022-09-13 18:41:40 +0200matthewmosior(~matthewmo@173.170.253.91) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2022-09-13 19:26:47 +0200tromp(~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
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2022-09-13 19:52:15 +0200matthewmosior(~matthewmo@173.170.253.91)
2022-09-13 19:54:17 +0200tromp(~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl)
2022-09-13 19:57:20 +0200wonko(~wjc@2a01:e0a:4f9:6500:7c3e:1edd:d64c:344f)
2022-09-13 19:58:02 +0200glguy(~glguy@libera/staff-emeritus/glguy)
2022-09-13 20:00:06 +0200matthewmosior(~matthewmo@173.170.253.91) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2022-09-13 20:14:19 +0200ph88(~ph88@2a02:8109:9e00:71d0:3578:dbbf:f7b2:91f0)
2022-09-13 20:14:30 +0200tromp(~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2022-09-13 20:16:53 +0200tromp(~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl)
2022-09-13 20:17:11 +0200 <Hecate> heyo
2022-09-13 20:17:21 +0200 <Hecate> anyone coming to MuniHac 2022?
2022-09-13 20:18:43 +0200 <geekosaur> zero chance of my going to Munich 😞 I think Solid and maybe liskin are?
2022-09-13 20:19:15 +0200odnes(~odnes@5-203-152-64.pat.nym.cosmote.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2022-09-13 20:36:58 +0200glguy(~glguy@libera/staff-emeritus/glguy)
2022-09-13 20:45:24 +0200acidjnk(~acidjnk@p54ad5adb.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2022-09-13 20:46:05 +0200Lord_of_Life_(~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915)
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2022-09-13 21:14:46 +0200jonathanx(~jonathan@h-178-174-176-109.A357.priv.bahnhof.se)
2022-09-13 21:14:48 +0200ft(~ft@p3e9bc57b.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2022-09-13 21:17:50 +0200tromp(~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2022-09-13 21:17:51 +0200Vajb(~Vajb@2001:999:251:6c46:af67:6433:cfc0:311b) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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2022-09-13 22:07:24 +0200perrierjouet(~perrier-j@modemcable048.127-56-74.mc.videotron.ca) (Quit: WeeChat 3.6)
2022-09-13 22:10:11 +0200matthewmosior(~matthewmo@173.170.253.91)
2022-09-13 22:10:38 +0200califax_(~califax@user/califx)
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2022-09-13 22:14:25 +0200econo(uid147250@user/econo) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2022-09-13 22:15:06 +0200 <liskin> I dunno. I'm already doing four flights in two weeks so going to Munihac seems irresponsible. Could use mental health as an excuse but no promises.
2022-09-13 22:20:20 +0200kuribas(~user@ptr-17d51emvh3k186bo862.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be) (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 26.3))
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2022-09-13 22:32:04 +0200Adran(adran@botters/adran)
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2022-09-13 23:07:00 +0200wonko(~wjc@88.123.229.148) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
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2022-09-13 23:09:37 +0200acarrico(~acarrico@dhcp-68-142-48-19.greenmountainaccess.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2022-09-13 23:09:58 +0200MoC(~moc@user/moc) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2022-09-13 23:19:01 +0200koz_(~koz@121.99.240.58) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2022-09-13 23:19:30 +0200matthewmosior(~matthewmo@173.170.253.91)
2022-09-13 23:20:38 +0200__monty__(~toonn@user/toonn) (Quit: leaving)
2022-09-13 23:20:47 +0200koz(~koz@121.99.240.58)
2022-09-13 23:21:30 +0200Vajb(~Vajb@hag-jnsbng11-58c3ad-40.dhcp.inet.fi) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2022-09-13 23:24:01 +0200matthewmosior(~matthewmo@173.170.253.91) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2022-09-13 23:25:12 +0200Vajb(~Vajb@2001:999:251:6c46:af67:6433:cfc0:311b)
2022-09-13 23:25:54 +0200ph88^(~ph88@2a02:8109:9e00:71d0:5e5:6e2e:7c5a:d7a6) (Quit: Leaving)
2022-09-13 23:27:46 +0200raehik(~raehik@cpc95906-rdng25-2-0-cust156.15-3.cable.virginm.net) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2022-09-13 23:32:15 +0200Pickchea(~private@user/pickchea) (Quit: Leaving)
2022-09-13 23:34:22 +0200nate1(~nate@98.45.169.16) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2022-09-13 23:44:01 +0200tromp(~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2022-09-13 23:47:10 +0200nate1(~nate@98.45.169.16)
2022-09-13 23:51:47 +0200nate1(~nate@98.45.169.16) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2022-09-13 23:52:37 +0200zeenk(~zeenk@2a02:2f04:a311:2d00:6865:d863:4c93:799f) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2022-09-13 23:54:46 +0200matthewmosior(~matthewmo@173.170.253.91)
2022-09-13 23:58:37 +0200coot(~coot@213.134.176.158)
2022-09-13 23:59:30 +0200matthewmosior(~matthewmo@173.170.253.91) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)