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2022-08-27 01:19:36 +0000 <nilradical> what is the best way to get force-directed graphs in haskell displaying in the browser, where both nodes and edges can be labelled
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2022-08-27 02:04:33 +0000 <hololeap> hopefully this isn't too vague, but is there a name/library/example pattern for when only non-empty elements are pretty-printed (such as in XML), and empty ones are left out completely?
2022-08-27 02:05:46 +0000 <hololeap> also leaving out nested elements where the bottom is empty
2022-08-27 02:06:31 +0000matthewmosior(~matthewmo@173.170.253.91)
2022-08-27 02:06:33 +0000 <hololeap> it just seems to come up a lot and I'd like a sure-fire way to deal with it when it does
2022-08-27 02:07:31 +0000 <hololeap> nilradical: how would you do this in other languages?
2022-08-27 02:08:47 +0000 <nilradical> hololeap: https://itnext.io/d3-force-directed-graph-forces-experiments-for-dummies-20a5682935
2022-08-27 02:09:09 +0000beteigeuze(~Thunderbi@bl11-28-222.dsl.telepac.pt) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2022-08-27 02:09:13 +0000 <nilradical> probably bindings to some javascript graph library
2022-08-27 02:09:43 +0000 <hololeap> maybe convert the graph to json somehow and get one of those libraries to display it
2022-08-27 02:11:12 +0000 <nilradical> thanks that might work, there's also graphviz bindings that seem to be up to date
2022-08-27 02:11:34 +0000 <hololeap> aeson is the major json library, fyi
2022-08-27 02:12:27 +0000nate4(~nate@98.45.169.16) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2022-08-27 02:12:39 +0000 <nilradical> thanks
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2022-08-27 08:37:07 +0000dos__^^(~user@user/dos/x-1723657)
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2022-08-27 08:57:23 +0000Guest4172(~chenqisu1@183.217.200.212)
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2022-08-27 09:00:24 +0000jakalx(~jakalx@base.jakalx.net) ()
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2022-08-27 09:00:49 +0000adanwan(~adanwan@gateway/tor-sasl/adanwan)
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2022-08-27 09:42:43 +0000Guest4172(~chenqisu1@183.217.200.212) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
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2022-08-27 09:44:36 +0000jmdaemon(~jmdaemon@user/jmdaemon)
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2022-08-27 09:48:53 +0000azimut_(~azimut@gateway/tor-sasl/azimut)
2022-08-27 09:49:05 +0000matthewmosior(~matthewmo@173.170.253.91)
2022-08-27 09:49:14 +0000azimut(~azimut@gateway/tor-sasl/azimut) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2022-08-27 09:50:25 +0000olle(~olle@h-94-254-63-12.NA.cust.bahnhof.se) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2022-08-27 09:51:37 +0000harveypwca(~harveypwc@2601:246:c180:a570:3828:d8:e523:3f67) (Quit: Leaving)
2022-08-27 09:54:01 +0000matthewmosior(~matthewmo@173.170.253.91) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2022-08-27 09:54:40 +0000yvan-sraka(~yvan-srak@2a02:2788:224:71c:8be3:ca91:e0db:d2eb) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2022-08-27 09:56:21 +0000alternateved(~user@staticline-31-183-146-203.toya.net.pl) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-08-27 09:59:33 +0000__monty__(~toonn@user/toonn)
2022-08-27 10:02:00 +0000coot(~coot@2a02:a310:e241:1b00:ec1a:e9df:79ac:66ba) (Quit: coot)
2022-08-27 10:02:03 +0000axeman(~quassel@net-93-65-246-244.cust.vodafonedsl.it)
2022-08-27 10:06:46 +0000matthewmosior(~matthewmo@173.170.253.91)
2022-08-27 10:07:00 +0000azimut_(~azimut@gateway/tor-sasl/azimut) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2022-08-27 10:19:03 +0000nattiestnate(~nate@202.138.250.13)
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2022-08-27 10:20:22 +0000toeffel(~toeffel@user/toeffel)
2022-08-27 10:24:03 +0000matthewmosior(~matthewmo@173.170.253.91) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2022-08-27 10:29:58 +0000libertyprime(~libertypr@118-92-68-91.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz) (Quit: leaving)
2022-08-27 10:38:31 +0000Topsi(~Topsi@dyndsl-095-033-090-077.ewe-ip-backbone.de)
2022-08-27 10:39:50 +0000zeenk(~zeenk@2a02:2f04:a311:2d00:6865:d863:4c93:799f) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2022-08-27 10:40:03 +0000lisbeths(uid135845@id-135845.lymington.irccloud.com)
2022-08-27 10:40:13 +0000jespada(~jespada@cpc121060-nmal24-2-0-cust249.19-2.cable.virginm.net)
2022-08-27 10:41:16 +0000acidjnk(~acidjnk@p200300d6e7137a55e00ff7705fa34544.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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2022-08-27 10:54:36 +0000matthewmosior(~matthewmo@173.170.253.91)
2022-08-27 11:02:51 +0000wonko(~wjc@2a0e:1c80:2::130) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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2022-08-27 11:13:21 +0000matthewmosior(~matthewmo@173.170.253.91) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2022-08-27 11:14:57 +0000stiell(~stiell@gateway/tor-sasl/stiell) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2022-08-27 11:15:06 +0000jmdaemon(~jmdaemon@user/jmdaemon) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2022-08-27 11:16:34 +0000nattiestnate(~nate@202.138.250.9) (Quit: WeeChat 3.6)
2022-08-27 11:23:44 +0000jinsun(~jinsun@user/jinsun) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2022-08-27 11:28:35 +0000stiell(~stiell@gateway/tor-sasl/stiell)
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2022-08-27 11:45:27 +0000eggplantade(~Eggplanta@108-201-191-115.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
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2022-08-27 11:52:49 +0000MoC(~moc@user/moc)
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2022-08-27 12:07:55 +0000jtomas(~jtomas@56.red-88-17-82.dynamicip.rima-tde.net)
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2022-08-27 12:16:04 +0000Chai-T-Rex(~ChaiTRex@user/chaitrex) (Quit: Chai-T-Rex)
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2022-08-27 12:19:05 +0000matthewmosior(~matthewmo@173.170.253.91) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2022-08-27 12:22:21 +0000raym(~raym@user/raym)
2022-08-27 12:24:48 +0000jtomas(~jtomas@56.red-88-17-82.dynamicip.rima-tde.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2022-08-27 12:26:26 +0000axeman(~quassel@net-93-65-246-244.cust.vodafonedsl.it) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2022-08-27 12:35:36 +0000raym(~raym@user/raym) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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2022-08-27 12:44:17 +0000instantaphex(~jb@c-73-171-252-84.hsd1.fl.comcast.net)
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2022-08-27 12:46:56 +0000matthewmosior(~matthewmo@173.170.253.91)
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2022-08-27 13:01:21 +0000szkl(uid110435@id-110435.uxbridge.irccloud.com) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2022-08-27 13:05:00 +0000matthewmosior(~matthewmo@173.170.253.91)
2022-08-27 13:05:06 +0000o-90(~o-90@gateway/tor-sasl/o-90)
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2022-08-27 13:07:19 +0000img(~img@user/img) (Quit: ZNC 1.8.2 - https://znc.in)
2022-08-27 13:07:42 +0000img(~img@user/img)
2022-08-27 13:08:01 +0000img(~img@user/img) (Client Quit)
2022-08-27 13:09:33 +0000o-90(~o-90@gateway/tor-sasl/o-90) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2022-08-27 13:42:45 +0000kenaryn(~aurele@cre71-h03-89-88-44-27.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr)
2022-08-27 13:42:52 +0000waleee(~waleee@2001:9b0:213:7200:cc36:a556:b1e8:b340)
2022-08-27 13:46:11 +0000nate4(~nate@98.45.169.16) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2022-08-27 13:53:36 +0000kenaryn(~aurele@cre71-h03-89-88-44-27.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr) (Quit: leaving)
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2022-08-27 13:59:11 +0000[itchyjunk](~itchyjunk@user/itchyjunk/x-7353470)
2022-08-27 13:59:47 +0000chexum(~quassel@gateway/tor-sasl/chexum) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2022-08-27 14:00:50 +0000bitdex(~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
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2022-08-27 14:06:26 +0000matthewmosior(~matthewmo@173.170.253.91)
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2022-08-27 14:10:57 +0000mastarija(~mastarija@2a05:4f46:e03:6000:b825:f4cc:782a:97c1) (Client Quit)
2022-08-27 14:16:06 +0000matthewmosior(~matthewmo@173.170.253.91) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2022-08-27 14:17:00 +0000coot(~coot@213.134.176.158) (Quit: coot)
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2022-08-27 14:22:14 +0000bitdex(~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex) (Quit: = "")
2022-08-27 14:30:08 +0000ardell(~ardell@user/ardell)
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2022-08-27 14:32:53 +0000zxx7529(~Thunderbi@user/zxx7529) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2022-08-27 14:33:55 +0000bitdex(~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex)
2022-08-27 14:36:24 +0000matthewmosior(~matthewmo@173.170.253.91) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2022-08-27 14:40:56 +0000matthewmosior(~matthewmo@173.170.253.91)
2022-08-27 14:43:36 +0000MoC(~moc@user/moc) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2022-08-27 14:45:20 +0000matthewmosior(~matthewmo@173.170.253.91) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2022-08-27 14:49:25 +0000olle(~olle@h-94-254-63-12.NA.cust.bahnhof.se)
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2022-08-27 17:19:36 +0000marinelli[m](~marinelli@2001:470:69fc:105::2d8) ()
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2022-08-27 18:32:51 +0000Guest2279(~Guest22@2604:3d08:9578:cd70:294c:2f1f:3ead:65d7)
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2022-08-27 18:35:48 +0000Lord_of_Life_(~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915)
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2022-08-27 18:37:39 +0000Guest32(~Guest32@2604:3d08:9578:cd70:294c:2f1f:3ead:65d7)
2022-08-27 18:37:49 +0000raehik(~raehik@cpc95906-rdng25-2-0-cust156.15-3.cable.virginm.net)
2022-08-27 18:38:28 +0000Lord_of_Life_Lord_of_Life
2022-08-27 18:39:10 +0000Guest32(~Guest32@2604:3d08:9578:cd70:294c:2f1f:3ead:65d7) (Client Quit)
2022-08-27 18:39:28 +0000Ailrk(~Ailrk@2604:3d08:9578:cd70:294c:2f1f:3ead:65d7)
2022-08-27 18:42:36 +0000segfaultfizzbuzz(~segfaultf@23-93-74-212.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net)
2022-08-27 18:42:42 +0000 <segfaultfizzbuzz> zsh: segmentation fault stack upgrade
2022-08-27 18:43:10 +0000segfaultfizzbuzzsegfaulted stack on a first use attempt
2022-08-27 18:43:23 +0000wonko(~wjc@2a0e:1c80:2::130) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2022-08-27 18:43:26 +0000 <segfaultfizzbuzz> can i get some comedy karma points
2022-08-27 18:43:46 +0000Ailrk(~Ailrk@2604:3d08:9578:cd70:294c:2f1f:3ead:65d7) (Client Quit)
2022-08-27 18:44:04 +0000 <segfaultfizzbuzz> stack was installed freshly via ghcup
2022-08-27 18:44:21 +0000 <segfaultfizzbuzz> on macos/m1
2022-08-27 18:48:20 +0000cyphase(~cyphase@user/cyphase) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2022-08-27 18:48:45 +0000phma(phma@2001:5b0:210d:9458:aee1:2881:7c08:f7a7) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2022-08-27 18:50:03 +0000phma(phma@2001:5b0:210d:2468:ee36:3a6:50fd:1e95)
2022-08-27 18:50:40 +0000Me-me(~me-me@user/me-me) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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2022-08-27 19:05:55 +0000segfaultfizzbuzz(~segfaultf@23-93-74-212.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
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2022-08-27 19:16:39 +0000zebrag(~chris@user/zebrag) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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2022-08-27 19:31:09 +0000titibandit(~titibandi@xdsl-87-78-66-58.nc.de) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-08-27 19:34:27 +0000segfaultfizzbuzz(~segfaultf@23-93-74-212.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net)
2022-08-27 19:38:05 +0000 <hololeap> name checks out
2022-08-27 19:39:06 +0000segfaultfizzbuzz(~segfaultf@23-93-74-212.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2022-08-27 19:39:15 +0000biberu(~biberu@user/biberu)
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2022-08-27 19:43:17 +0000enek(~enek@pool-100-11-18-203.phlapa.fios.verizon.net)
2022-08-27 19:44:21 +0000axeman(~quassel@net-93-65-246-244.cust.vodafonedsl.it) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2022-08-27 19:44:44 +0000harveypwca(~harveypwc@2601:246:c180:a570:3828:d8:e523:3f67)
2022-08-27 19:45:31 +0000nate4(~nate@98.45.169.16) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2022-08-27 19:55:18 +0000beteigeuze(~Thunderbi@bl11-28-222.dsl.telepac.pt) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2022-08-27 19:55:23 +0000beteigeuze1(~Thunderbi@bl11-28-222.dsl.telepac.pt)
2022-08-27 19:55:37 +0000machinedgod(~machinedg@d198-53-218-113.abhsia.telus.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-08-27 19:57:35 +0000akegalj(~akegalj@141-136-183-58.dsl.iskon.hr)
2022-08-27 19:57:41 +0000beteigeuze1beteigeuze
2022-08-27 20:00:06 +0000mima(mmh@gateway/vpn/airvpn/mima) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2022-08-27 20:01:17 +0000 <akegalj> I wonder does GHC do some magic to do tail call optimisation on monadic recursive functions in IO or ST? Will `let f x = doSomething >>= f` be TCO optimised?
2022-08-27 20:03:09 +0000 <geekosaur> tail call optimization as such doesn't really apply, since evaluation is by graph reduction rather than procedural execution
2022-08-27 20:04:02 +0000machinedgod(~machinedg@d198-53-218-113.abhsia.telus.net)
2022-08-27 20:05:28 +0000 <akegalj> geekosaur: thanks for the info
2022-08-27 20:06:18 +0000enek(~enek@pool-100-11-18-203.phlapa.fios.verizon.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2022-08-27 20:06:47 +0000toeffel(~toeffel@user/toeffel) (Quit: quit)
2022-08-27 20:08:26 +0000wonko(~wjc@2a0e:1c80:2::130) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2022-08-27 20:08:51 +0000machinedgod(~machinedg@d198-53-218-113.abhsia.telus.net) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2022-08-27 20:09:20 +0000machinedgod(~machinedg@d198-53-218-113.abhsia.telus.net)
2022-08-27 20:10:39 +0000segfaultfizzbuzz(~segfaultf@23-93-74-212.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net)
2022-08-27 20:10:58 +0000 <dolio> akegalj: It's not magic. It's a pretty natural consequence of the implementation.
2022-08-27 20:11:33 +0000 <dolio> That's a good part of the token-passing implementation.
2022-08-27 20:12:54 +0000nate4(~nate@98.45.169.16)
2022-08-27 20:13:17 +0000pavonia(~user@user/siracusa)
2022-08-27 20:13:31 +0000 <dolio> Essentially it becomes `f x s = case doSomething s of (y, s) -> f y s` which just has the right structure to operate well.
2022-08-27 20:14:51 +0000segfaultfizzbuzz(~segfaultf@23-93-74-212.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
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2022-08-27 20:19:36 +0000 <akegalj> dolio: so you are saying it will get optimised in efficient loop? If bind is compiled in case statement it looks to me as good to be optimised
2022-08-27 20:20:21 +0000 <dolio> It probably will be, but it doesn't need to be optimized, because lazy evaluation will have the same semantics, just with more overhead.
2022-08-27 20:22:42 +0000 <dolio> The optimizations aren't changing stack usage, I guess is what I'm saying.
2022-08-27 20:22:51 +0000nate4(~nate@98.45.169.16) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2022-08-27 20:23:04 +0000 <dolio> That is for the reason geekosaur said.
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2022-08-27 20:32:28 +0000 <akegalj> dolio: hm, how they are not changing stack usage. TCO version will be optimised in while loop while recursive function will push the function and arguments to the stack
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2022-08-27 20:34:46 +0000 <geekosaur> nope
2022-08-27 20:34:54 +0000 <geekosaur> there is no execution stack
2022-08-27 20:35:27 +0000 <akegalj> geekosaur: will this clear things to me https://en.m.wikibooks.org/wiki/Haskell/Graph_reduction ?
2022-08-27 20:35:28 +0000 <geekosaur> there is a pattern match stack but it works differently
2022-08-27 20:35:33 +0000 <olle> You guys do escape analysis in the compiler?
2022-08-27 20:35:34 +0000 <geekosaur> it might
2022-08-27 20:35:47 +0000 <dolio> One way of thinking about it is that all calls are tail calls.
2022-08-27 20:36:01 +0000 <olle> https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/issues/16891 - 3 years ago
2022-08-27 20:36:06 +0000 <geekosaur> graph reduction is a very different form of execution
2022-08-27 20:36:18 +0000cyphase(~cyphase@user/cyphase)
2022-08-27 20:36:31 +0000 <geekosaur> olle, yes there is escape analysis
2022-08-27 20:36:32 +0000qrpnxz(~qrpnxz@fsf/member/qrpnxz)
2022-08-27 20:36:41 +0000 <dolio> So without any optimizations, f tail calls (>>=) and then (>>=) tail calls f.
2022-08-27 20:37:19 +0000 <olle> geekosaur: Not the link I found tho?
2022-08-27 20:37:22 +0000 <monochrom> Yeah all calls are tail calls. The stack is used for something else and can still grow.
2022-08-27 20:38:27 +0000 <geekosaur> right, that ticket is for a partcular case of escape analysis that isn't currently done
2022-08-27 20:39:12 +0000 <olle> https://stackoverflow.com/questions/5132350/how-do-haskell-compilers-decide-whether-to-allocate-on…
2022-08-27 20:39:16 +0000 <olle> Kinda vague here
2022-08-27 20:40:05 +0000 <olle> Hm
2022-08-27 20:40:32 +0000 <monochrom> Based on the asm code I have seen, GHC goes "why not both? :)"
2022-08-27 20:41:02 +0000 <olle> haha k
2022-08-27 20:41:24 +0000 <monochrom> data is put on heap, and pointer to that data is put on stack.
2022-08-27 20:41:39 +0000 <olle> That's always the case?
2022-08-27 20:41:57 +0000 <olle> You usually dont malloc pointers, at least not in C
2022-08-27 20:42:14 +0000 <monochrom> I haven't seen GHC-asm code that look like escape analysis was ever done.
2022-08-27 20:43:48 +0000 <geekosaur> maybe I'm misunderstanding
2022-08-27 20:44:11 +0000zeenk(~zeenk@2a02:2f04:a311:2d00:6865:d863:4c93:799f)
2022-08-27 20:44:12 +0000 <geekosaur> although there is a different kind of escape analysis that definitely happens… in the typechecker
2022-08-27 20:44:30 +0000 <geekosaur> not helpful here or relevant to that ticket
2022-08-27 20:44:57 +0000 <olle> got it :)
2022-08-27 20:46:04 +0000nate4(~nate@98.45.169.16)
2022-08-27 20:46:54 +0000 <monochrom> I think GHC uses fusions for lists, unboxing for Ints, such that the result supersedes escape analysis anyway.
2022-08-27 20:49:40 +0000 <geekosaur> if you read that ticket you'll get some idea of (a) how GHC evaluates things (b) why escape analysis is difficult
2022-08-27 20:50:16 +0000 <geekosaur> (c) why a stack complicates things (note that "the stack" is used in scare quotes for a reason)
2022-08-27 20:55:16 +0000 <olle> :P
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2022-08-27 21:57:40 +0000 <aviladev[m]> Originally asked on #haskell-beginners:libera.chat :... (full message at https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/libera.chat/7096fb54c079f405515990aab7909bd15a86…)
2022-08-27 21:58:44 +0000janus(janus@anubis.0x90.dk) ()
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2022-08-27 22:11:49 +0000 <monochrom> I would make my own judgment whether to listen to coding style advices or not.
2022-08-27 22:13:18 +0000 <monochrom> In this case the advice is no better.
2022-08-27 22:13:19 +0000 <int-e> "I always listen to advice. It's polite." -- Terry Pratchett (This was followed by "If I *heeded* all the advice I've had over the years, I've have written 18 books about Rincewind.")
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2022-08-27 22:18:16 +0000 <hpc> if you ever want to truly understand how arbitrary code style is, look at the configuration for eclipse's java autoformatter :D
2022-08-27 22:19:02 +0000 <hpc> personally, i think of code style in terms of "what idea am i trying to communicate"
2022-08-27 22:19:23 +0000 <hpc> because ultimately that's the only thing that matters
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2022-08-27 22:20:34 +0000 <monochrom> OK, I misread. The suggestion is better.
2022-08-27 22:21:13 +0000 <monochrom> The concern in this case is trying to stay either "data flow from left to right" or "data flow from right to left".
2022-08-27 22:21:50 +0000 <monochrom> Although, I don't normally care.
2022-08-27 22:22:19 +0000 <monochrom> I care about how to do algebraic reasoning, not how imperative programmers think.
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2022-08-27 22:56:22 +0000 <ozkutuk> Did this PR end up in GHC 9.2.1? https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/merge_requests/4614
2022-08-27 22:56:26 +0000 <ozkutuk> I couldn't find anything relevant in the release notes
2022-08-27 23:05:57 +0000 <geekosaur> not in the release notes, but empirically nit seems to be there
2022-08-27 23:06:00 +0000 <geekosaur> *it
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