| 2022-06-21 00:00:20 +0200 | nate4 | (~nate@98.45.169.16) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2022-06-21 00:04:07 +0200 | eod|fserucas__ | (~eod|fseru@193.65.114.89.rev.vodafone.pt) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 2022-06-21 00:04:07 +0200 | eod|fserucas_ | (~eod|fseru@193.65.114.89.rev.vodafone.pt) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 2022-06-21 00:07:00 +0200 | acidjnk | (~acidjnk@dynamic-046-114-175-104.46.114.pool.telefonica.de) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 2022-06-21 00:08:24 +0200 | unit73e | (~emanuel@2001:818:e8dd:7c00:32b5:c2ff:fe6b:5291) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 2022-06-21 00:09:10 +0200 | [_] | [itchyjunk] |
| 2022-06-21 00:09:48 +0200 | <slack1256> | [exa]: Awesome, those were the keyword for what I was looking for. |
| 2022-06-21 00:13:46 +0200 | coot | (~coot@213.134.190.95) (Quit: coot) |
| 2022-06-21 00:15:42 +0200 | money | (~Gambino@user/polo) |
| 2022-06-21 00:19:14 +0200 | slac52602 | (~slack1256@191.126.227.88) |
| 2022-06-21 00:19:28 +0200 | mncheckm | (~mncheck@193.224.205.254) |
| 2022-06-21 00:21:13 +0200 | slack1256 | (~slack1256@186.11.21.54) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
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| 2022-06-21 00:24:47 +0200 | money | (~Gambino@user/polo) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
| 2022-06-21 00:28:22 +0200 | __monty__ | (~toonn@user/toonn) (Quit: leaving) |
| 2022-06-21 00:35:03 +0200 | dschrempf | (~dominik@070-207.dynamic.dsl.fonira.net) (Quit: WeeChat 3.5) |
| 2022-06-21 00:39:12 +0200 | money | (~Gambino@user/polo) |
| 2022-06-21 00:43:07 +0200 | jmcarthur | (~jmcarthur@c-73-29-224-10.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) |
| 2022-06-21 00:43:10 +0200 | slac52602 | (~slack1256@191.126.227.88) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2022-06-21 00:44:20 +0200 | Guest4302 | (~Gambino@user/polo) |
| 2022-06-21 00:44:35 +0200 | money | (~Gambino@user/polo) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
| 2022-06-21 00:49:18 +0200 | pavonia | (~user@user/siracusa) |
| 2022-06-21 00:56:44 +0200 | Guest4302 | (~Gambino@user/polo) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2022-06-21 00:58:41 +0200 | acetakwas | (~acetakwas@f240139.upc-f.chello.nl) |
| 2022-06-21 00:59:42 +0200 | nate4 | (~nate@98.45.169.16) |
| 2022-06-21 01:00:00 +0200 | <Bulby[m]> | `put Double` decodes it into an Integer and Int 😠 |
| 2022-06-21 01:01:00 +0200 | <Bulby[m]> | is there a function that actually gets the IEEE bytes |
| 2022-06-21 01:04:31 +0200 | <Bulby[m]> | reading the format... it has odd bytes that don't really make sense 🥲 |
| 2022-06-21 01:06:05 +0200 | <dsal> | You mean you want the in-memory representation of Haskell's Double? |
| 2022-06-21 01:06:19 +0200 | <Bulby[m]> | hm, I guess? if it's IEEE? |
| 2022-06-21 01:06:37 +0200 | <geekosaur> | it is |
| 2022-06-21 01:06:52 +0200 | <geekosaur> | the format binary uses is oddball |
| 2022-06-21 01:09:11 +0200 | <Bulby[m]> | rust threw a hissy fit so that means something is wrong on the haskell side |
| 2022-06-21 01:10:16 +0200 | <Bulby[m]> | and (Integer, Int) is something wrong |
| 2022-06-21 01:11:13 +0200 | <geekosaur> | https://downloads.haskell.org/ghc/8.10.7/docs/html/libraries/base-4.14.3.0/Prelude.html#v:decodeFl… is what binary is doing |
| 2022-06-21 01:11:20 +0200 | <Bulby[m]> | yeah |
| 2022-06-21 01:11:32 +0200 | jakalx | (~jakalx@base.jakalx.net) (Error from remote client) |
| 2022-06-21 01:15:24 +0200 | <geekosaur> | someone was doing a fork of network that used IEEE format but I can't find it in my logs now :( |
| 2022-06-21 01:15:24 +0200 | <EvanR> | I know the ieee binary format for floats is standardized, but I feel better about decodeFloat regardless xD |
| 2022-06-21 01:15:36 +0200 | <geekosaur> | er, of binary. why do I keepo saying network for it? |
| 2022-06-21 01:15:40 +0200 | <Bulby[m]> | rust doesn't feel the same ☹️ |
| 2022-06-21 01:15:51 +0200 | <EvanR> | unsurprised |
| 2022-06-21 01:16:05 +0200 | <Bulby[m]> | which is the whole reason I noticed this |
| 2022-06-21 01:16:06 +0200 | <EvanR> | "everything is literally 1s or 0s" |
| 2022-06-21 01:16:22 +0200 | <geekosaur> | decodeFloat is wrong anyway since it can't pass Inf/-Inf or NaN |
| 2022-06-21 01:16:27 +0200 | <dsal> | LOL at the guy who doesn't have a quantum computer. |
| 2022-06-21 01:16:44 +0200 | <EvanR> | well, qubits are also 1s or 0s |
| 2022-06-21 01:16:45 +0200 | <EvanR> | xD |
| 2022-06-21 01:16:50 +0200 | <Bulby[m]> | even worse now: I can't derive `Binary` |
| 2022-06-21 01:17:24 +0200 | <EvanR> | +/- infinity and nan are second banana anyways |
| 2022-06-21 01:17:40 +0200 | <Bulby[m]> | true, I won't ever emit it |
| 2022-06-21 01:17:45 +0200 | <EvanR> | and minus zero |
| 2022-06-21 01:19:05 +0200 | <Bulby[m]> | still, this isn't about haskell |
| 2022-06-21 01:19:10 +0200 | <Bulby[m]> | this is about making rust happy |
| 2022-06-21 01:19:26 +0200 | <Bulby[m]> | (by emiting good bytecode) |
| 2022-06-21 01:21:03 +0200 | <dsal> | Yeah, it seems kind of reasonable you can't get directly to the bytes, but you should also be able to build out those bytes without doing your own IEEE encoding. |
| 2022-06-21 01:21:30 +0200 | <Bulby[m]> | hm, the encoding for integer also seems """special""" |
| 2022-06-21 01:22:01 +0200 | z0k | (~z0k@206.84.141.12) |
| 2022-06-21 01:22:06 +0200 | <dsal> | The documentation suggests that it's doing the right thing: https://hackage.haskell.org/package/binary-0.8.9.0/docs/Data-Binary-Put.html#v:putDoublebe |
| 2022-06-21 01:22:17 +0200 | Lord_of_Life_ | (~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915) |
| 2022-06-21 01:22:22 +0200 | <Bulby[m]> | it better 😠 |
| 2022-06-21 01:22:26 +0200 | <Bulby[m]> | idk why put does that |
| 2022-06-21 01:22:55 +0200 | zeenk | (~zeenk@2a02:2f04:a301:3d00:39df:1c4b:8a55:48d3) (Quit: Konversation terminated!) |
| 2022-06-21 01:23:05 +0200 | Lord_of_Life | (~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 2022-06-21 01:23:35 +0200 | Lord_of_Life_ | Lord_of_Life |
| 2022-06-21 01:23:40 +0200 | <dsal> | Which works via https://hackage.haskell.org/package/base-4.16.1.0/docs/GHC-Float.html#v:castDoubleToWord64 |
| 2022-06-21 01:24:06 +0200 | <geekosaur> | what would you expect Integer to do, btw? |
| 2022-06-21 01:24:20 +0200 | <dsal> | Which `put` are you referring to? |
| 2022-06-21 01:24:56 +0200 | <dsal> | Oh, I see. I've only ever used the specific things I expect on the wire. |
| 2022-06-21 01:25:00 +0200 | <Bulby[m]> | idk what integer does - not in the mood to read it fully |
| 2022-06-21 01:25:36 +0200 | <dsal> | Oh. I see. I finally caught up. heh |
| 2022-06-21 01:25:39 +0200 | jmcarthur | (~jmcarthur@c-73-29-224-10.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) (Quit: My MacBook Air has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) |
| 2022-06-21 01:26:36 +0200 | <Bulby[m]> | i only recently noticed this because I only recently actually started writing the VM |
| 2022-06-21 01:27:03 +0200 | <Bulby[m]> | it panicked LOL |
| 2022-06-21 01:27:32 +0200 | phma_ | phma |
| 2022-06-21 01:27:55 +0200 | <EvanR> | don't write your own ieee encoder, that's almost certainly in a hackage package |
| 2022-06-21 01:28:08 +0200 | <Bulby[m]> | i haven't |
| 2022-06-21 01:28:18 +0200 | <geekosaur> | I ask about Integer because there isn't even an IEEE standard for it. And if rust expects (say) libtommath internal format, there's not a whole lot you can do about it |
| 2022-06-21 01:29:29 +0200 | <Bulby[m]> | yay it works i think |
| 2022-06-21 01:29:43 +0200 | <EvanR> | come to think of it, I rarely see anyone trading floats using ieee format... |
| 2022-06-21 01:29:50 +0200 | <EvanR> | between processes |
| 2022-06-21 01:29:57 +0200 | <Bulby[m]> | hm |
| 2022-06-21 01:30:04 +0200 | <Bulby[m]> | what encoding do they use? |
| 2022-06-21 01:30:04 +0200 | HackingSpring | (~HackingSp@2804:431:c7f5:d4eb:7d26:72ea:2c30:f9f4) (Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 28.1) |
| 2022-06-21 01:30:13 +0200 | <EvanR> | text, of some sort |
| 2022-06-21 01:30:19 +0200 | <EvanR> | or integers |
| 2022-06-21 01:30:23 +0200 | <Bulby[m]> | huh |
| 2022-06-21 01:31:26 +0200 | haru` | (~HackingSp@2804:431:c7f5:d4eb:7d26:72ea:2c30:f9f4) |
| 2022-06-21 01:32:21 +0200 | jakalx | (~jakalx@base.jakalx.net) |
| 2022-06-21 01:33:50 +0200 | nate4 | (~nate@98.45.169.16) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-06-21 01:37:18 +0200 | money | (~Gambino@user/polo) |
| 2022-06-21 01:37:31 +0200 | haru` | (~HackingSp@2804:431:c7f5:d4eb:7d26:72ea:2c30:f9f4) (Remote host closed the connection) |
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| 2022-06-21 01:41:31 +0200 | Tuplanolla | (~Tuplanoll@91-159-69-97.elisa-laajakaista.fi) (Quit: Leaving.) |
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| 2022-06-21 01:44:43 +0200 | Kaiepi | (~Kaiepi@156.34.47.253) |
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| 2022-06-21 02:00:11 +0200 | money | (~Gambino@user/polo) (Quit: money) |
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| 2022-06-21 02:01:55 +0200 | jmcarthur | (~jmcarthur@c-73-29-224-10.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) (Quit: My MacBook Air has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) |
| 2022-06-21 02:03:11 +0200 | juri__ | (~juri@79.140.115.76) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2022-06-21 02:06:05 +0200 | money | (~Gambino@user/polo) |
| 2022-06-21 02:06:57 +0200 | zero | zzz |
| 2022-06-21 02:12:00 +0200 | mikoto-chan | (~mikoto-ch@esm-84-240-99-143.netplaza.fi) (Quit: WeeChat 3.5) |
| 2022-06-21 02:12:14 +0200 | mikoto-chan | (~mikoto-ch@esm-84-240-99-143.netplaza.fi) |
| 2022-06-21 02:19:24 +0200 | quartz_ | (~quartz_@2401:4900:1c32:441:d06c:1365:6fe1:e2ec) |
| 2022-06-21 02:21:12 +0200 | quartz_ | (~quartz_@2401:4900:1c32:441:d06c:1365:6fe1:e2ec) (Client Quit) |
| 2022-06-21 02:34:37 +0200 | pretty_dumm_guy | (trottel@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/prettydummguy/x-88029655) (Quit: WeeChat 3.5) |
| 2022-06-21 02:35:18 +0200 | pretty_dumm_guy | (trottel@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/prettydummguy/x-88029655) |
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| 2022-06-21 02:52:38 +0200 | slaydr_ | (~seriley@75.164.63.238) (Quit: Leaving) |
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| 2022-06-21 02:53:30 +0200 | <zzz> | happy solstice everyone! |
| 2022-06-21 02:54:54 +0200 | albet70 | (~xxx@2400:8902::f03c:92ff:fe60:98d8) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2022-06-21 02:55:15 +0200 | geekosaur | (~geekosaur@xmonad/geekosaur) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 2022-06-21 02:55:21 +0200 | lottaquestions | (~nick@2607:fa49:5041:a200:befb:c8a2:f655:5c1b) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 2022-06-21 02:55:29 +0200 | money | (~Gambino@user/polo) (Quit: money) |
| 2022-06-21 03:00:38 +0200 | money | (~Gambino@user/polo) |
| 2022-06-21 03:00:45 +0200 | geekosaur | (~geekosaur@xmonad/geekosaur) |
| 2022-06-21 03:01:02 +0200 | albet70 | (~xxx@2400:8902::f03c:92ff:fe60:98d8) |
| 2022-06-21 03:05:38 +0200 | dcoutts__ | (~duncan@host86-170-66-22.range86-170.btcentralplus.com) |
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| 2022-06-21 03:15:57 +0200 | nate4 | (~nate@98.45.169.16) |
| 2022-06-21 03:19:21 +0200 | Kaiepi | (~Kaiepi@156.34.47.253) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 2022-06-21 03:20:02 +0200 | money | (~Gambino@user/polo) (Quit: money) |
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| 2022-06-21 03:23:20 +0200 | money | (~Gambino@user/polo) |
| 2022-06-21 03:27:14 +0200 | goepsilongo | (~goepsilon@2603-7000-ab00-62ed-3468-41c1-0245-0831.res6.spectrum.com) |
| 2022-06-21 03:28:18 +0200 | goepsilongo | (~goepsilon@2603-7000-ab00-62ed-3468-41c1-0245-0831.res6.spectrum.com) (Client Quit) |
| 2022-06-21 03:36:49 +0200 | <sm> | happy solstice 🌞 zzz ! |
| 2022-06-21 03:37:41 +0200 | werneta | (~werneta@70-142-214-115.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
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| 2022-06-21 03:59:16 +0200 | elvishjerricco | (sid237756@id-237756.helmsley.irccloud.com) |
| 2022-06-21 03:59:23 +0200 | tnks | (sid412124@helmsley.irccloud.com) |
| 2022-06-21 04:00:11 +0200 | bjs | (sid190364@user/bjs) |
| 2022-06-21 04:00:42 +0200 | Kaiepi | (~Kaiepi@156.34.47.253) |
| 2022-06-21 04:01:22 +0200 | scav | (sid309693@user/scav) |
| 2022-06-21 04:01:26 +0200 | elmyr | (sid3438@user/dy) |
| 2022-06-21 04:02:11 +0200 | alinab | (sid468903@id-468903.helmsley.irccloud.com) |
| 2022-06-21 04:02:22 +0200 | sunarch | (sid526836@user/sunarch) |
| 2022-06-21 04:02:44 +0200 | gaze___ | (sid387101@helmsley.irccloud.com) |
| 2022-06-21 04:03:07 +0200 | kristjansson | (sid126207@id-126207.tinside.irccloud.com) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-06-21 04:05:39 +0200 | sunarch | (sid526836@user/sunarch) (Max SendQ exceeded) |
| 2022-06-21 04:06:06 +0200 | kristjansson | (sid126207@tinside.irccloud.com) |
| 2022-06-21 04:08:22 +0200 | sunarch | (sid526836@user/sunarch) |
| 2022-06-21 04:08:30 +0200 | edmundnoble | (sid229620@id-229620.helmsley.irccloud.com) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) |
| 2022-06-21 04:08:48 +0200 | gaze___ | (sid387101@helmsley.irccloud.com) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 2022-06-21 04:09:36 +0200 | nate4 | (~nate@98.45.169.16) |
| 2022-06-21 04:10:25 +0200 | carter | (sid14827@id-14827.helmsley.irccloud.com) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) |
| 2022-06-21 04:11:08 +0200 | sunarch | (sid526836@user/sunarch) (Max SendQ exceeded) |
| 2022-06-21 04:11:11 +0200 | elmyr | (sid3438@user/dy) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 2022-06-21 04:12:20 +0200 | alinab | (sid468903@id-468903.helmsley.irccloud.com) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) |
| 2022-06-21 04:12:40 +0200 | edmundnoble | (sid229620@helmsley.irccloud.com) |
| 2022-06-21 04:13:54 +0200 | sunarch | (sid526836@user/sunarch) |
| 2022-06-21 04:14:39 +0200 | Kaiepi | (~Kaiepi@156.34.47.253) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 2022-06-21 04:14:47 +0200 | jao | (~jao@cpc103048-sgyl39-2-0-cust502.18-2.cable.virginm.net) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2022-06-21 04:15:11 +0200 | [itchyjunk] | (~itchyjunk@user/itchyjunk/x-7353470) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
| 2022-06-21 04:15:45 +0200 | sunarch | (sid526836@user/sunarch) (Max SendQ exceeded) |
| 2022-06-21 04:16:51 +0200 | money | polo |
| 2022-06-21 04:16:59 +0200 | [itchyjunk] | (~itchyjunk@user/itchyjunk/x-7353470) |
| 2022-06-21 04:17:15 +0200 | conjunctive_ | (sid433686@helmsley.irccloud.com) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 2022-06-21 04:17:15 +0200 | alinab | (sid468903@helmsley.irccloud.com) |
| 2022-06-21 04:17:31 +0200 | gaze___ | (sid387101@id-387101.helmsley.irccloud.com) |
| 2022-06-21 04:17:46 +0200 | elmyr | (sid3438@user/dy) |
| 2022-06-21 04:17:55 +0200 | edmundnoble | (sid229620@helmsley.irccloud.com) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2022-06-21 04:17:58 +0200 | sunarch | (sid526836@user/sunarch) |
| 2022-06-21 04:18:45 +0200 | parseval | (sid239098@id-239098.helmsley.irccloud.com) |
| 2022-06-21 04:19:14 +0200 | cbarrett | (sid192934@id-192934.helmsley.irccloud.com) |
| 2022-06-21 04:19:20 +0200 | carter | (sid14827@id-14827.helmsley.irccloud.com) |
| 2022-06-21 04:19:37 +0200 | conjunctive_ | (sid433686@id-433686.helmsley.irccloud.com) |
| 2022-06-21 04:20:06 +0200 | edmundnoble | (sid229620@id-229620.helmsley.irccloud.com) |
| 2022-06-21 04:20:13 +0200 | meinside | (uid24933@helmsley.irccloud.com) |
| 2022-06-21 04:20:29 +0200 | NiKaN | (sid385034@helmsley.irccloud.com) |
| 2022-06-21 04:21:22 +0200 | dpratt | (sid193493@helmsley.irccloud.com) |
| 2022-06-21 04:22:16 +0200 | yrlnry | (~yrlnry@pool-108-2-150-109.phlapa.fios.verizon.net) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2022-06-21 04:31:19 +0200 | zebrag | (~chris@user/zebrag) (Quit: Konversation terminated!) |
| 2022-06-21 04:31:26 +0200 | money | (~Gambino@user/polo) |
| 2022-06-21 04:33:50 +0200 | eax_ | (6ba2dd7b84@user/eax/x-8810663) |
| 2022-06-21 04:34:23 +0200 | polo | (~Gambino@user/polo) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2022-06-21 04:35:10 +0200 | mikoto-chan | (~mikoto-ch@esm-84-240-99-143.netplaza.fi) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-06-21 04:38:55 +0200 | cawfee_ | (~root@2406:3003:2077:2758::babe) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
| 2022-06-21 04:39:14 +0200 | cawfee_ | (~root@2406:3003:2077:2758::babe) |
| 2022-06-21 04:39:18 +0200 | bitdex | (~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2022-06-21 04:40:14 +0200 | bilegeek | (~bilegeek@2600:1008:b005:53e9:593b:562e:f1af:2e1) |
| 2022-06-21 04:40:24 +0200 | bitdex | (~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex) |
| 2022-06-21 04:41:17 +0200 | Polo | (~Gambino@user/polo) |
| 2022-06-21 04:44:22 +0200 | waleee | (~waleee@2001:9b0:213:7200:cc36:a556:b1e8:b340) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) |
| 2022-06-21 04:44:32 +0200 | money | (~Gambino@user/polo) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2022-06-21 04:46:13 +0200 | mikoto-chan | (~mikoto-ch@esm-84-240-99-143.netplaza.fi) |
| 2022-06-21 04:49:43 +0200 | werneta | (~werneta@137.79.237.10) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 2022-06-21 04:51:14 +0200 | werneta | (~werneta@70-142-214-115.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net) |
| 2022-06-21 04:53:44 +0200 | mima | (~mmh@aftr-62-216-207-119.dynamic.mnet-online.de) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 2022-06-21 04:53:46 +0200 | Guest92 | (~Guest92@2600:1000:b153:2d00:947e:5b94:1480:cf4a) (Quit: Client closed) |
| 2022-06-21 04:55:35 +0200 | mima | (~mmh@aftr-185-17-205-215.dynamic.mnet-online.de) |
| 2022-06-21 04:55:50 +0200 | nate4 | (~nate@98.45.169.16) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-06-21 04:56:57 +0200 | Polo | (~Gambino@user/polo) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 2022-06-21 04:58:17 +0200 | Polo | (~Gambino@user/polo) |
| 2022-06-21 04:59:20 +0200 | Polo | (~Gambino@user/polo) (Client Quit) |
| 2022-06-21 05:00:28 +0200 | Polo | (~Gambino@user/polo) |
| 2022-06-21 05:00:46 +0200 | pretty_dumm_guy | (trottel@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/prettydummguy/x-88029655) (Quit: WeeChat 3.5) |
| 2022-06-21 05:03:10 +0200 | Ranhir | (~Ranhir@157.97.53.139) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-06-21 05:03:51 +0200 | money | (~Gambino@user/polo) |
| 2022-06-21 05:05:27 +0200 | Unicorn_Princess | (~Unicorn_P@93-103-228-248.dynamic.t-2.net) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2022-06-21 05:05:35 +0200 | Polo | (~Gambino@user/polo) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
| 2022-06-21 05:11:12 +0200 | dsrt^ | (~dsrt@12.1.86.165) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 2022-06-21 05:16:29 +0200 | dsrt^ | (~dsrt@12.1.86.165) |
| 2022-06-21 05:19:47 +0200 | liz | (~liz@cpc84585-newc17-2-0-cust60.16-2.cable.virginm.net) |
| 2022-06-21 05:22:27 +0200 | n1essa | (~nessa@75-164-218-34.ptld.qwest.net) |
| 2022-06-21 05:23:49 +0200 | n1essa | (~nessa@75-164-218-34.ptld.qwest.net) (Client Quit) |
| 2022-06-21 05:25:06 +0200 | n1essa | (~nessa@75-164-218-34.ptld.qwest.net) |
| 2022-06-21 05:26:55 +0200 | albet70 | (~xxx@2400:8902::f03c:92ff:fe60:98d8) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2022-06-21 05:32:00 +0200 | dsrt^ | (~dsrt@12.1.86.165) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 2022-06-21 05:32:31 +0200 | leeb | (~leeb@KD106155005147.au-net.ne.jp) |
| 2022-06-21 05:33:02 +0200 | albet70 | (~xxx@2400:8902::f03c:92ff:fe60:98d8) |
| 2022-06-21 05:38:39 +0200 | nate4 | (~nate@98.45.169.16) |
| 2022-06-21 05:39:26 +0200 | yauhsien | (~yauhsien@61-231-23-53.dynamic-ip.hinet.net) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2022-06-21 05:39:52 +0200 | Andrew | \Andrew |
| 2022-06-21 05:41:00 +0200 | \Andrew | GNU\Andrew |
| 2022-06-21 05:41:52 +0200 | dyeplexer | (~dyeplexer@user/dyeplexer) |
| 2022-06-21 05:42:52 +0200 | dsrt^ | (~dsrt@12.1.86.165) |
| 2022-06-21 05:42:53 +0200 | money | (~Gambino@user/polo) (Quit: money) |
| 2022-06-21 05:43:42 +0200 | yauhsien | (~yauhsien@61-231-23-53.dynamic-ip.hinet.net) |
| 2022-06-21 05:48:39 +0200 | yauhsien | (~yauhsien@61-231-23-53.dynamic-ip.hinet.net) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 2022-06-21 05:53:54 +0200 | Polo | (~Gambino@user/polo) |
| 2022-06-21 05:54:19 +0200 | dsrt^ | (~dsrt@12.1.86.165) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 2022-06-21 05:56:36 +0200 | elvishjerricco | (sid237756@id-237756.helmsley.irccloud.com) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) |
| 2022-06-21 05:56:38 +0200 | gregberns__ | (sid315709@helmsley.irccloud.com) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2022-06-21 05:57:21 +0200 | bjs | (sid190364@user/bjs) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 2022-06-21 05:58:02 +0200 | nate4 | (~nate@98.45.169.16) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2022-06-21 05:58:39 +0200 | NiKaN | (sid385034@helmsley.irccloud.com) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 2022-06-21 05:59:24 +0200 | n1essa | (~nessa@75-164-218-34.ptld.qwest.net) (Quit: leaving) |
| 2022-06-21 05:59:25 +0200 | carter | (sid14827@id-14827.helmsley.irccloud.com) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2022-06-21 05:59:40 +0200 | conjunctive_ | (sid433686@id-433686.helmsley.irccloud.com) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) |
| 2022-06-21 05:59:40 +0200 | scav | (sid309693@user/scav) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) |
| 2022-06-21 05:59:56 +0200 | gregberns__ | (sid315709@helmsley.irccloud.com) |
| 2022-06-21 06:00:07 +0200 | elvishjerricco | (sid237756@id-237756.helmsley.irccloud.com) |
| 2022-06-21 06:00:37 +0200 | bjs | (sid190364@user/bjs) |
| 2022-06-21 06:00:39 +0200 | carter | (sid14827@id-14827.helmsley.irccloud.com) |
| 2022-06-21 06:00:55 +0200 | conjunctive_ | (sid433686@id-433686.helmsley.irccloud.com) |
| 2022-06-21 06:01:06 +0200 | scav | (sid309693@user/scav) |
| 2022-06-21 06:02:21 +0200 | NiKaN | (sid385034@id-385034.helmsley.irccloud.com) |
| 2022-06-21 06:07:03 +0200 | dyeplexer | (~dyeplexer@user/dyeplexer) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2022-06-21 06:15:43 +0200 | Vajb | (~Vajb@hag-jnsbng11-58c3a8-176.dhcp.inet.fi) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2022-06-21 06:16:49 +0200 | Vajb | (~Vajb@2001:999:40:4c50:1b24:879c:6df3:1d06) |
| 2022-06-21 06:18:11 +0200 | Polo | (~Gambino@user/polo) (Quit: Polo) |
| 2022-06-21 06:19:00 +0200 | [itchyjunk] | (~itchyjunk@user/itchyjunk/x-7353470) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2022-06-21 06:21:29 +0200 | Polo | (~Gambino@user/polo) |
| 2022-06-21 06:22:59 +0200 | yauhsien | (~yauhsien@61-231-23-53.dynamic-ip.hinet.net) |
| 2022-06-21 06:27:59 +0200 | FinnElija | (~finn_elij@user/finn-elija/x-0085643) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2022-06-21 06:28:09 +0200 | yauhsien | (~yauhsien@61-231-23-53.dynamic-ip.hinet.net) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 2022-06-21 06:28:38 +0200 | FinnElija | (~finn_elij@user/finn-elija/x-0085643) |
| 2022-06-21 06:28:40 +0200 | vglfr | (~vglfr@coupling.penchant.volia.net) |
| 2022-06-21 06:32:58 +0200 | yauhsien | (~yauhsien@61-231-23-53.dynamic-ip.hinet.net) |
| 2022-06-21 06:41:33 +0200 | mima_ | (~mmh@aftr-62-216-210-112.dynamic.mnet-online.de) |
| 2022-06-21 06:44:30 +0200 | mima | (~mmh@aftr-185-17-205-215.dynamic.mnet-online.de) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-06-21 06:46:10 +0200 | mikoto-chan | (~mikoto-ch@esm-84-240-99-143.netplaza.fi) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-06-21 06:47:17 +0200 | mikoto-chan | (~mikoto-ch@esm-84-240-99-143.netplaza.fi) |
| 2022-06-21 06:47:51 +0200 | liz | (~liz@cpc84585-newc17-2-0-cust60.16-2.cable.virginm.net) (Quit: Lost terminal) |
| 2022-06-21 06:49:19 +0200 | dsrt^ | (~dsrt@12.1.86.165) |
| 2022-06-21 06:58:07 +0200 | jinsun | (~jinsun@user/jinsun) |
| 2022-06-21 06:59:30 +0200 | mikoto-chan | (~mikoto-ch@esm-84-240-99-143.netplaza.fi) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-06-21 07:00:09 +0200 | dsrt^ | (~dsrt@12.1.86.165) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 2022-06-21 07:00:47 +0200 | jinsun__ | (~jinsun@user/jinsun) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
| 2022-06-21 07:04:11 +0200 | Colere | (~colere@about/linux/staff/sauvin) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2022-06-21 07:05:01 +0200 | Colere | (~colere@about/linux/staff/sauvin) |
| 2022-06-21 07:05:21 +0200 | arjun | (~arjun@user/arjun) |
| 2022-06-21 07:07:15 +0200 | Furor | (~colere@about/linux/staff/sauvin) |
| 2022-06-21 07:10:07 +0200 | king_gs | (~Thunderbi@2806:103e:29:bd33:a770:7b09:49c6:13b0) |
| 2022-06-21 07:10:08 +0200 | Colere | (~colere@about/linux/staff/sauvin) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2022-06-21 07:11:20 +0200 | mikoto-chan | (~mikoto-ch@esm-84-240-99-143.netplaza.fi) |
| 2022-06-21 07:13:08 +0200 | Sgeo | (~Sgeo@user/sgeo) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2022-06-21 07:14:52 +0200 | oxide | (~lambda@user/oxide) |
| 2022-06-21 07:16:37 +0200 | arjun | (~arjun@user/arjun) (Quit: tip toe-ing my way outta here) |
| 2022-06-21 07:20:24 +0200 | coot | (~coot@213.134.190.95) |
| 2022-06-21 07:20:53 +0200 | takuan | (~takuan@178-116-218-225.access.telenet.be) |
| 2022-06-21 07:21:01 +0200 | mikoto-chan | (~mikoto-ch@esm-84-240-99-143.netplaza.fi) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 2022-06-21 07:22:47 +0200 | leah2 | (~leah@vuxu.org) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-06-21 07:24:02 +0200 | leah2 | (~leah@vuxu.org) |
| 2022-06-21 07:25:02 +0200 | michalz | (~michalz@185.246.204.107) |
| 2022-06-21 07:28:10 +0200 | z0k | (~z0k@206.84.141.12) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-06-21 07:30:24 +0200 | z0k | (~z0k@206.84.141.12) |
| 2022-06-21 07:32:33 +0200 | zmt01 | (~zmt00@user/zmt00) |
| 2022-06-21 07:34:15 +0200 | mikoto-chan | (~mikoto-ch@esm-84-240-99-143.netplaza.fi) |
| 2022-06-21 07:34:46 +0200 | king_gs | (~Thunderbi@2806:103e:29:bd33:a770:7b09:49c6:13b0) (Quit: king_gs) |
| 2022-06-21 07:35:41 +0200 | leeb | (~leeb@KD106155005147.au-net.ne.jp) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2022-06-21 07:36:20 +0200 | zmt00 | (~zmt00@user/zmt00) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
| 2022-06-21 07:37:49 +0200 | leeb | (~leeb@KD106155003075.au-net.ne.jp) |
| 2022-06-21 07:43:06 +0200 | mbuf | (~Shakthi@122.174.192.200) |
| 2022-06-21 07:44:04 +0200 | acetakwas | (~acetakwas@f240139.upc-f.chello.nl) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-06-21 07:49:13 +0200 | oxide | (~lambda@user/oxide) (Quit: oxide) |
| 2022-06-21 07:52:10 +0200 | cosimone | (~user@2001:b07:ae5:db26:57c7:21a5:6e1c:6b81) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2022-06-21 07:53:01 +0200 | cosimone | (~user@2001:b07:ae5:db26:57c7:21a5:6e1c:6b81) |
| 2022-06-21 07:53:38 +0200 | rkk | (~rkk@2601:547:b00:696:9922:960d:1cb5:8453) |
| 2022-06-21 07:56:38 +0200 | jinsun | (~jinsun@user/jinsun) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2022-06-21 07:56:41 +0200 | eggplantade | (~Eggplanta@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:21c1:4642:3625:e265) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2022-06-21 07:57:38 +0200 | money | (~Gambino@user/polo) |
| 2022-06-21 07:57:45 +0200 | Polo | (~Gambino@user/polo) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 2022-06-21 07:59:31 +0200 | jinsun | (~jinsun@user/jinsun) |
| 2022-06-21 08:10:57 +0200 | FinnElija | (~finn_elij@user/finn-elija/x-0085643) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2022-06-21 08:11:34 +0200 | nate4 | (~nate@98.45.169.16) |
| 2022-06-21 08:11:44 +0200 | FinnElija | (~finn_elij@user/finn-elija/x-0085643) |
| 2022-06-21 08:12:56 +0200 | _ht | (~quassel@231-169-21-31.ftth.glasoperator.nl) |
| 2022-06-21 08:13:48 +0200 | money | (~Gambino@user/polo) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2022-06-21 08:13:56 +0200 | phma_ | (~phma@2001:5b0:211f:4838:bc99:a0da:9cf3:c583) |
| 2022-06-21 08:14:38 +0200 | phma | (~phma@host-67-44-208-229.hnremote.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2022-06-21 08:15:38 +0200 | Polo | (~Gambino@user/polo) |
| 2022-06-21 08:17:06 +0200 | nate4 | (~nate@98.45.169.16) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 2022-06-21 08:20:12 +0200 | rkk | (~rkk@2601:547:b00:696:9922:960d:1cb5:8453) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2022-06-21 08:20:30 +0200 | rkk | (~rkk@2601:547:b00:696:9922:960d:1cb5:8453) |
| 2022-06-21 08:25:07 +0200 | YoungFrog | (~youngfrog@2a02:a03f:c21b:f900:38c7:61b7:c771:72b1) |
| 2022-06-21 08:31:12 +0200 | Hash | (~Hash@tunnel686959-pt.tunnel.tserv15.lax1.ipv6.he.net) (Quit: ZNC - https://znc.in) |
| 2022-06-21 08:31:51 +0200 | gurkenglas | (~gurkengla@84.57.85.111) |
| 2022-06-21 08:32:48 +0200 | MajorBiscuit | (~MajorBisc@c-001-003-023.client.tudelft.eduvpn.nl) |
| 2022-06-21 08:35:09 +0200 | chexum | (~quassel@gateway/tor-sasl/chexum) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2022-06-21 08:35:39 +0200 | chexum | (~quassel@gateway/tor-sasl/chexum) |
| 2022-06-21 08:36:56 +0200 | jonathanx__ | (~jonathan@h-178-174-176-109.A357.priv.bahnhof.se) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2022-06-21 08:39:44 +0200 | Hash | (~Hash@tunnel686959-pt.tunnel.tserv15.lax1.ipv6.he.net) |
| 2022-06-21 08:41:07 +0200 | jonathanx | (~jonathan@c-5eea733a-74736162.cust.telenor.se) |
| 2022-06-21 08:41:28 +0200 | azimut | (~azimut@gateway/tor-sasl/azimut) |
| 2022-06-21 08:44:51 +0200 | cosimone | (~user@2001:b07:ae5:db26:57c7:21a5:6e1c:6b81) (Remote host closed the connection) |
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| 2022-06-21 10:52:13 +0200 | zeenk | (~zeenk@2a02:2f04:a301:3d00:39df:1c4b:8a55:48d3) (Quit: Konversation terminated!) |
| 2022-06-21 10:52:14 +0200 | bontaq | (~user@ool-45779fe5.dyn.optonline.net) |
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| 2022-06-21 10:58:10 +0200 | ccntrq1 | (~Thunderbi@dynamic-078-050-252-036.78.50.pool.telefonica.de) |
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| 2022-06-21 11:09:16 +0200 | __monty__ | (~toonn@user/toonn) |
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| 2022-06-21 11:11:24 +0200 | arthurs115 | (~arthurs11@163.5.10.193) |
| 2022-06-21 11:18:52 +0200 | raym | (~raym@user/raym) (Quit: leaving) |
| 2022-06-21 11:22:10 +0200 | pretty_dumm_guy | (trottel@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/prettydummguy/x-88029655) |
| 2022-06-21 11:25:21 +0200 | ccntrq1 | (~Thunderbi@dynamic-078-050-252-036.78.50.pool.telefonica.de) |
| 2022-06-21 11:26:07 +0200 | stiell | (~stiell@gateway/tor-sasl/stiell) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2022-06-21 11:26:40 +0200 | stiell | (~stiell@gateway/tor-sasl/stiell) |
| 2022-06-21 11:26:45 +0200 | dsrt^ | (~dsrt@12.1.86.165) |
| 2022-06-21 11:26:57 +0200 | ccntrq | (~Thunderbi@dynamic-078-050-252-036.78.50.pool.telefonica.de) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 2022-06-21 11:26:57 +0200 | ccntrq1 | ccntrq |
| 2022-06-21 11:28:42 +0200 | <maerwald> | jackdk: `fail` cannot be called there |
| 2022-06-21 11:28:53 +0200 | <maerwald> | because I'm inside a quotation... that would change the type |
| 2022-06-21 11:33:28 +0200 | econo | (uid147250@user/econo) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) |
| 2022-06-21 11:36:22 +0200 | ccntrq1 | (~Thunderbi@dynamic-078-050-252-036.78.50.pool.telefonica.de) |
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| 2022-06-21 11:41:24 +0200 | ccntrq1 | (~Thunderbi@dynamic-077-003-244-019.77.3.pool.telefonica.de) |
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| 2022-06-21 11:53:40 +0200 | ccntrq1 | (~Thunderbi@dynamic-077-003-244-019.77.3.pool.telefonica.de) |
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| 2022-06-21 11:56:40 +0200 | Polo | (~Gambino@user/polo) (Quit: Polo) |
| 2022-06-21 11:56:52 +0200 | yauhsien | (~yauhsien@61-231-23-53.dynamic-ip.hinet.net) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2022-06-21 11:57:34 +0200 | yauhsien | (~yauhsien@61-231-23-53.dynamic-ip.hinet.net) |
| 2022-06-21 11:59:41 +0200 | Polo | (~Gambino@user/polo) |
| 2022-06-21 11:59:49 +0200 | m1dnight | (~christoph@78-22-9-5.access.telenet.be) (Quit: WeeChat 3.5) |
| 2022-06-21 12:00:10 +0200 | eggplantade | (~Eggplanta@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:9:59a4:5055:fd8c) |
| 2022-06-21 12:00:37 +0200 | m1dnight | (~christoph@78-22-9-5.access.telenet.be) |
| 2022-06-21 12:00:38 +0200 | arthurs115 | (~arthurs11@163.5.10.193) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2022-06-21 12:03:41 +0200 | raym | (~raym@user/raym) |
| 2022-06-21 12:04:32 +0200 | eggplantade | (~Eggplanta@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:9:59a4:5055:fd8c) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
| 2022-06-21 12:04:57 +0200 | <carbolymer> | can I write `Ord`instance so that `compare a b == EQ` and `a /= b` ? |
| 2022-06-21 12:05:37 +0200 | <carbolymer> | this is 6th law of Ord, right: https://hackage.haskell.org/package/base-4.16.1.0/docs/Prelude.html#t:Ord ? |
| 2022-06-21 12:08:38 +0200 | <exarkun> | It sounds like the opposite of the 6th law? |
| 2022-06-21 12:08:41 +0200 | ccntrq1 | (~Thunderbi@dynamic-077-003-244-019.77.3.pool.telefonica.de) |
| 2022-06-21 12:08:57 +0200 | <carbolymer> | exarkun: exactly, and I kind of want that |
| 2022-06-21 12:09:50 +0200 | <lyiriyah[m]> | Uhh, why? |
| 2022-06-21 12:10:29 +0200 | <carbolymer> | lyiriyah[m]: I want to have ordering based only on 2 of 3 fields of my datatype |
| 2022-06-21 12:10:50 +0200 | ccntrq | (~Thunderbi@dynamic-077-003-244-019.77.3.pool.telefonica.de) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
| 2022-06-21 12:10:50 +0200 | ccntrq1 | ccntrq |
| 2022-06-21 12:11:16 +0200 | <carbolymer> | hmm |
| 2022-06-21 12:11:27 +0200 | <carbolymer> | adding 3rd field will not hurd |
| 2022-06-21 12:12:02 +0200 | <carbolymer> | s/hurd/hurt |
| 2022-06-21 12:13:03 +0200 | nate4 | (~nate@98.45.169.16) |
| 2022-06-21 12:13:57 +0200 | <carbolymer> | hmm my idea does not make sense |
| 2022-06-21 12:14:23 +0200 | carbolymer | will better use autogenerated instance and stop thinking about Ord |
| 2022-06-21 12:14:40 +0200 | <carbolymer> | autogenerated instance uses order of fields, which is nice |
| 2022-06-21 12:15:53 +0200 | xff0x | (~xff0x@125x103x176x34.ap125.ftth.ucom.ne.jp) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 2022-06-21 12:18:10 +0200 | nate4 | (~nate@98.45.169.16) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-06-21 12:20:18 +0200 | CiaoSen | (~Jura@p200300c95735ef002a3a4dfffe84dbd5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
| 2022-06-21 12:21:59 +0200 | ccntrq1 | (~Thunderbi@dynamic-077-003-244-019.77.3.pool.telefonica.de) |
| 2022-06-21 12:24:11 +0200 | ccntrq | (~Thunderbi@dynamic-077-003-244-019.77.3.pool.telefonica.de) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
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| 2022-06-21 12:30:59 +0200 | ccntrq1 | (~Thunderbi@dynamic-077-003-244-019.77.3.pool.telefonica.de) |
| 2022-06-21 12:31:33 +0200 | xf00b4r | (~soukenka@217.196.113.70) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 2022-06-21 12:32:29 +0200 | mikoto-chan | (~mikoto-ch@esm-84-240-99-143.netplaza.fi) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
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| 2022-06-21 12:32:50 +0200 | ccntrq1 | ccntrq |
| 2022-06-21 12:35:30 +0200 | statusfa1led | statusfailed |
| 2022-06-21 12:36:25 +0200 | Guest59 | (~Guest59@136.158.11.123) |
| 2022-06-21 12:38:29 +0200 | qwedfg | (~qwedfg@user/qwedfg) |
| 2022-06-21 12:43:57 +0200 | ccntrq1 | (~Thunderbi@dynamic-077-003-244-019.77.3.pool.telefonica.de) |
| 2022-06-21 12:45:56 +0200 | ccntrq | (~Thunderbi@dynamic-077-003-244-019.77.3.pool.telefonica.de) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
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| 2022-06-21 12:46:51 +0200 | Polo | (~Gambino@user/polo) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 2022-06-21 12:47:18 +0200 | Guest59 | (~Guest59@136.158.11.123) (Quit: Client closed) |
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| 2022-06-21 12:58:34 +0200 | money | (~Gambino@user/polo) |
| 2022-06-21 13:00:11 +0200 | mc47 | (~mc47@xmonad/TheMC47) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2022-06-21 13:00:47 +0200 | _xor | (~xor@74.215.182.83) (Quit: WeeChat 3.4.1) |
| 2022-06-21 13:02:45 +0200 | xff0x | (~xff0x@b133147.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp) |
| 2022-06-21 13:05:19 +0200 | raehik | (~raehik@cpc95906-rdng25-2-0-cust156.15-3.cable.virginm.net) |
| 2022-06-21 13:07:48 +0200 | ccntrq1 | (~Thunderbi@dynamic-077-003-244-019.77.3.pool.telefonica.de) |
| 2022-06-21 13:09:45 +0200 | ccntrq | (~Thunderbi@dynamic-077-003-244-019.77.3.pool.telefonica.de) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 2022-06-21 13:09:45 +0200 | ccntrq1 | ccntrq |
| 2022-06-21 13:10:11 +0200 | moonsheep | (~user@user/moonsheep) |
| 2022-06-21 13:10:50 +0200 | money | (~Gambino@user/polo) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-06-21 13:11:20 +0200 | notzmv | (~zmv@user/notzmv) |
| 2022-06-21 13:12:18 +0200 | <moonsheep> | Greetings. Is there a good way to efficiently serialize a HashMap? I know about standalone deriving but I'm not sure how space efficient it is |
| 2022-06-21 13:12:43 +0200 | <moonsheep> | To be clear, I want to store the hashes in serialized form, *not the keys themselves* |
| 2022-06-21 13:13:16 +0200 | <moonsheep> | Is it a good approach to toList the hashmap and then manually hash every key? |
| 2022-06-21 13:14:17 +0200 | <kritzefitz> | What do you mean by serialize? If you want something that you can later transform back into the original HashMap, it won't work without storing the full keys, since the HashMap needs the full keys. |
| 2022-06-21 13:16:52 +0200 | <moonsheep> | By serialize I mean encode into a ByteString that can later be decoded. |
| 2022-06-21 13:17:13 +0200 | <moonsheep> | Why does the HashMap need the full keys btw? |
| 2022-06-21 13:18:17 +0200 | <kritzefitz> | Because the hashing algorithm used in the map is not collision resistant and if two hashes match it still has to check if the actual keys are actually equal. |
| 2022-06-21 13:18:19 +0200 | sympt9 | (~sympt@user/sympt) |
| 2022-06-21 13:18:29 +0200 | <moonsheep> | Ah fair enough |
| 2022-06-21 13:18:57 +0200 | <moonsheep> | Hmm, well for my purposes I want very fast access times, and the set of keys I work with is known in advance |
| 2022-06-21 13:19:01 +0200 | <kritzefitz> | Also because extracting all keys is a supported operation from a HashMap, so technically if you don't have the keys, you don't have a HashMap as usually understoog. |
| 2022-06-21 13:19:13 +0200 | <moonsheep> | Maybe I'm better of making a table from keys to sequential ints and then using an array with constant access? |
| 2022-06-21 13:19:43 +0200 | sympt | (~sympt@user/sympt) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 2022-06-21 13:19:44 +0200 | <moonsheep> | kritzefitz: Ah right, for some reason I forgot about how toList returns the keyss |
| 2022-06-21 13:19:44 +0200 | sympt9 | sympt |
| 2022-06-21 13:20:32 +0200 | <kritzefitz> | The array thing seems sensible, yes. |
| 2022-06-21 13:20:59 +0200 | pavonia | (~user@user/siracusa) (Quit: Bye!) |
| 2022-06-21 13:21:17 +0200 | <moonsheep> | Alright thanks! |
| 2022-06-21 13:21:42 +0200 | coot | (~coot@213.134.190.95) |
| 2022-06-21 13:23:59 +0200 | CiaoSen | (~Jura@p200300c95735ef002a3a4dfffe84dbd5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 2022-06-21 13:24:52 +0200 | ccntrq1 | (~Thunderbi@dynamic-077-003-244-019.77.3.pool.telefonica.de) |
| 2022-06-21 13:26:49 +0200 | ccntrq | (~Thunderbi@dynamic-077-003-244-019.77.3.pool.telefonica.de) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 2022-06-21 13:26:49 +0200 | ccntrq1 | ccntrq |
| 2022-06-21 13:30:26 +0200 | <tdammers> | Just serialize the toList representation. |
| 2022-06-21 13:30:54 +0200 | <tdammers> | it doesn't actually matter that the hashmap uses hashes; that's pretty much transparent to the user code, modulo performance |
| 2022-06-21 13:31:00 +0200 | money | (~Gambino@user/polo) |
| 2022-06-21 13:31:52 +0200 | <tdammers> | as far as the exposed API goes, a hashmap isn't really any different from any other dictionary-like container, like say Data.Map (except that it leaks implementation details through the Ord / Hashable constraints, and through the order in which keys are listed if you don't ask for a sorted list) |
| 2022-06-21 13:32:45 +0200 | kitty2 | (~kitty@096-039-147-043.res.spectrum.com) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 2022-06-21 13:32:45 +0200 | kitty3 | (~kitty@096-039-147-043.res.spectrum.com) |
| 2022-06-21 13:33:08 +0200 | <kritzefitz> | moonsheep: Actually, I'm not sure the array thing is much faster. While array lookups have constant complexity, but your typical pattern match to convert from ADTs to ints does not, so I'm not sure you actually gain much. |
| 2022-06-21 13:35:08 +0200 | <moonsheep> | Well I'm not converting from ADTs, I'm converting from strinngs |
| 2022-06-21 13:36:23 +0200 | <tdammers> | the array thing doesn't make much sense; you don't need random access for ser/deser, a lazy linked list representation is fine, since all you will ever do is linearly iterate over it once |
| 2022-06-21 13:38:25 +0200 | <moonsheep> | Ah my bad, I should've made it clear that I moved passed the serialization thing. HashMaps are a bit tricky to serialize hence my original question. |
| 2022-06-21 13:38:40 +0200 | <moonsheep> | But I do need fast random access anyways. |
| 2022-06-21 13:39:26 +0200 | <kritzefitz> | moonsheep: Unless you can convert your strings to integers faster than just looking the string up in the HashMap, using the HashMap directly will definitely be faster. |
| 2022-06-21 13:39:37 +0200 | raehik | (~raehik@cpc95906-rdng25-2-0-cust156.15-3.cable.virginm.net) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 2022-06-21 13:39:55 +0200 | <tdammers> | yeah, indeed. HashMap already has fast random access |
| 2022-06-21 13:40:28 +0200 | <tdammers> | in fact, "convert strings to integers for O(1) random access" is almost literally what a hashmap does behind the scenes |
| 2022-06-21 13:41:32 +0200 | zaquest | (~notzaques@5.130.79.72) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2022-06-21 13:41:32 +0200 | <tdammers> | the only situation where I can see the "convert to integers" thing gain you anything is when you know something about those keys that allows you to come up with a "perfect" hashing function, i.e., one that guarantees that there will be no collisions |
| 2022-06-21 13:41:41 +0200 | <moonsheep> | Yeah but I'll conver the strings in advance |
| 2022-06-21 13:41:49 +0200 | <moonsheep> | I'll do all the heavy duty computation with ints |
| 2022-06-21 13:41:55 +0200 | <moonsheep> | And then convert the results back to strings |
| 2022-06-21 13:42:11 +0200 | CiaoSen | (~Jura@p200300c95735ef002a3a4dfffe84dbd5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
| 2022-06-21 13:42:16 +0200 | troydm | (~troydm@host-176-37-124-197.b025.la.net.ua) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 2022-06-21 13:43:20 +0200 | zaquest | (~notzaques@5.130.79.72) |
| 2022-06-21 13:43:22 +0200 | <kritzefitz> | If you convert the keys to integers just once and then do multiple lookups, it might be faster. But as always, you should run some benchmarks to see if it's actually worth the trouble. |
| 2022-06-21 13:43:58 +0200 | Guest62 | (~Guest62@78-80-25-89.customers.tmcz.cz) |
| 2022-06-21 13:44:03 +0200 | acidjnk_new3 | (~acidjnk@dynamic-046-114-175-104.46.114.pool.telefonica.de) |
| 2022-06-21 13:44:10 +0200 | acidjnk_new | (~acidjnk@dynamic-046-114-175-104.46.114.pool.telefonica.de) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2022-06-21 13:44:46 +0200 | <kritzefitz> | As for the serialization of HashMaps, if the set of keys is always constant, you can just serialize all values in a constant order and since the set of keys is known when deserializing you can just reconstruct the keys at that time. |
| 2022-06-21 13:45:08 +0200 | <kritzefitz> | *just serialize all values as a list in a constant order |
| 2022-06-21 13:45:12 +0200 | acetakwas | (~acetakwas@165.225.28.51) |
| 2022-06-21 13:49:07 +0200 | adanwan | (~adanwan@gateway/tor-sasl/adanwan) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2022-06-21 13:49:24 +0200 | adanwan | (~adanwan@gateway/tor-sasl/adanwan) |
| 2022-06-21 13:49:50 +0200 | acetakwas | (~acetakwas@165.225.28.51) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2022-06-21 13:50:00 +0200 | <moonsheep> | Yeah that's what I'm gonna do |
| 2022-06-21 13:50:19 +0200 | caubert | (~caubert@user/caubert) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 2022-06-21 13:52:22 +0200 | caubert | (~caubert@user/caubert) |
| 2022-06-21 13:53:36 +0200 | <Guest62> | Hi, guys. Would there be interest for (generated from metadata) WinRT bindings for Haskell ? |
| 2022-06-21 13:53:37 +0200 | <Guest62> | There are JSON-encoded WinRT metadata (https://github.com/marlersoft/win32json), and it should be somewhat straightforward to generate bindings from this. |
| 2022-06-21 13:53:37 +0200 | <Guest62> | The problem is, I've got no grasp on Hadkell FFI, strictness & so on, so it would be basically necessary someone spoon-feeds me the fragments of code that need to be generated, debate about how to deal with anonymous type-specs etc. |
| 2022-06-21 13:55:15 +0200 | arthurs115 | (~arthurs11@163.5.10.193) |
| 2022-06-21 13:55:29 +0200 | Alex_test_ | (~al_test@94.233.240.20) (Quit: ;-) |
| 2022-06-21 13:57:59 +0200 | <Guest62> | I'm willing to do the "grunt-work", but concrete examples with explanations would really help (I'd try to present minimal "this is what need to continue" requests wrt. the foundation module) |
| 2022-06-21 14:01:13 +0200 | raehik | (~raehik@cpc95906-rdng25-2-0-cust156.15-3.cable.virginm.net) |
| 2022-06-21 14:01:19 +0200 | CiaoSen | (~Jura@p200300c95735ef002a3a4dfffe84dbd5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 2022-06-21 14:03:23 +0200 | Guest62 | (~Guest62@78-80-25-89.customers.tmcz.cz) (Quit: Client closed) |
| 2022-06-21 14:05:20 +0200 | [itchyjunk] | (~itchyjunk@user/itchyjunk/x-7353470) |
| 2022-06-21 14:07:14 +0200 | Guest62 | (~Guest62@78-80-25-89.customers.tmcz.cz) |
| 2022-06-21 14:12:27 +0200 | Guest62 | (~Guest62@78-80-25-89.customers.tmcz.cz) (Quit: Ping timeout (120 seconds)) |
| 2022-06-21 14:15:03 +0200 | ccntrq1 | (~Thunderbi@dynamic-077-003-244-019.77.3.pool.telefonica.de) |
| 2022-06-21 14:16:02 +0200 | nate4 | (~nate@98.45.169.16) |
| 2022-06-21 14:16:57 +0200 | ccntrq | (~Thunderbi@dynamic-077-003-244-019.77.3.pool.telefonica.de) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 2022-06-21 14:16:58 +0200 | ccntrq1 | ccntrq |
| 2022-06-21 14:17:16 +0200 | Guest62 | (~Guest62@78-80-25-89.customers.tmcz.cz) |
| 2022-06-21 14:18:05 +0200 | acidjnk_new3 | (~acidjnk@dynamic-046-114-175-104.46.114.pool.telefonica.de) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 2022-06-21 14:21:49 +0200 | arthurs115 | (~arthurs11@163.5.10.193) (Quit: arthurs115) |
| 2022-06-21 14:21:59 +0200 | arthurs115 | (~arthurs11@163.5.10.193) |
| 2022-06-21 14:26:02 +0200 | Guest62 | (~Guest62@78-80-25-89.customers.tmcz.cz) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2022-06-21 14:27:16 +0200 | dcoutts | (~duncan@host86-170-66-127.range86-170.btcentralplus.com) |
| 2022-06-21 14:28:41 +0200 | dcoutts_ | (~duncan@host86-170-66-22.range86-170.btcentralplus.com) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 2022-06-21 14:30:05 +0200 | xf00b4r | (~soukenka@217.196.113.70) |
| 2022-06-21 14:31:09 +0200 | dschrempf | (~dominik@070-207.dynamic.dsl.fonira.net) (Quit: WeeChat 3.5) |
| 2022-06-21 14:33:07 +0200 | dcoutts_ | (~duncan@host213-122-143-138.range213-122.btcentralplus.com) |
| 2022-06-21 14:34:33 +0200 | nate4 | (~nate@98.45.169.16) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 2022-06-21 14:36:09 +0200 | dcoutts | (~duncan@host86-170-66-127.range86-170.btcentralplus.com) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 2022-06-21 14:37:05 +0200 | vysn | (~vysn@user/vysn) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
| 2022-06-21 14:38:29 +0200 | dcoutts_ | (~duncan@host213-122-143-138.range213-122.btcentralplus.com) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2022-06-21 14:40:00 +0200 | xkuru | (~xkuru@user/xkuru) |
| 2022-06-21 14:41:53 +0200 | comerijn | (~merijn@c-001-001-018.client.esciencecenter.eduvpn.nl) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 2022-06-21 14:42:36 +0200 | yrlnry | (~yrlnry@pool-108-2-150-109.phlapa.fios.verizon.net) |
| 2022-06-21 14:44:04 +0200 | xf00b4r | (~soukenka@217.196.113.70) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2022-06-21 14:44:56 +0200 | ccntrq1 | (~Thunderbi@dynamic-077-003-244-019.77.3.pool.telefonica.de) |
| 2022-06-21 14:46:32 +0200 | ccntrq | (~Thunderbi@dynamic-077-003-244-019.77.3.pool.telefonica.de) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2022-06-21 14:46:32 +0200 | ccntrq1 | ccntrq |
| 2022-06-21 14:46:50 +0200 | yauhsien | (~yauhsien@61-231-23-53.dynamic-ip.hinet.net) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2022-06-21 14:50:40 +0200 | xkuru | (~xkuru@user/xkuru) (Quit: Unvirtualizing) |
| 2022-06-21 14:52:10 +0200 | xf00b4r | (~soukenka@217.196.113.70) |
| 2022-06-21 14:53:24 +0200 | echoone | (~echoone@188.74.37.12) |
| 2022-06-21 14:53:55 +0200 | yauhsien | (~yauhsien@61-231-23-53.dynamic-ip.hinet.net) |
| 2022-06-21 14:57:45 +0200 | dsrt^ | (~dsrt@12.1.86.165) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 2022-06-21 14:57:52 +0200 | ccntrq1 | (~Thunderbi@dynamic-077-003-244-019.77.3.pool.telefonica.de) |
| 2022-06-21 14:59:08 +0200 | ccntrq | (~Thunderbi@dynamic-077-003-244-019.77.3.pool.telefonica.de) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2022-06-21 14:59:08 +0200 | ccntrq1 | ccntrq |
| 2022-06-21 15:00:07 +0200 | dsrt^ | (~dsrt@12.1.86.165) |
| 2022-06-21 15:06:37 +0200 | Furor | Colere |
| 2022-06-21 15:07:53 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@c-001-001-018.client.esciencecenter.eduvpn.nl) |
| 2022-06-21 15:10:17 +0200 | ccntrq1 | (~Thunderbi@dynamic-077-003-244-019.77.3.pool.telefonica.de) |
| 2022-06-21 15:12:11 +0200 | ccntrq | (~Thunderbi@dynamic-077-003-244-019.77.3.pool.telefonica.de) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
| 2022-06-21 15:12:11 +0200 | chomwitt | (~chomwitt@2a02:587:dc0d:e600:d03e:b48f:9497:fc81) |
| 2022-06-21 15:12:11 +0200 | ccntrq1 | ccntrq |
| 2022-06-21 15:15:30 +0200 | coot | (~coot@213.134.190.95) (Quit: coot) |
| 2022-06-21 15:20:24 +0200 | Unicorn_Princess | (~Unicorn_P@93-103-228-248.dynamic.t-2.net) |
| 2022-06-21 15:27:32 +0200 | ccntrq1 | (~Thunderbi@dynamic-077-003-244-019.77.3.pool.telefonica.de) |
| 2022-06-21 15:28:31 +0200 | <Clinton[m]> | Whilst I can do the following:... (full message at https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/libera.chat/180188d9e19bcb0b237acb22b69b0b1a3df2…) |
| 2022-06-21 15:29:29 +0200 | ccntrq | (~Thunderbi@dynamic-077-003-244-019.77.3.pool.telefonica.de) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 2022-06-21 15:29:29 +0200 | ccntrq1 | ccntrq |
| 2022-06-21 15:33:51 +0200 | odnes | (~odnes@5-203-208-94.pat.nym.cosmote.net) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2022-06-21 15:34:14 +0200 | odnes | (~odnes@5-203-208-94.pat.nym.cosmote.net) |
| 2022-06-21 15:34:48 +0200 | jgeerds | (~jgeerds@55d45f48.access.ecotel.net) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 2022-06-21 15:35:30 +0200 | <geekosaur> | not an expert on this stuff, but while boxed levity can all be represented the same way (and so can use a common kind for levity) every unboxed type has its own representation |
| 2022-06-21 15:35:46 +0200 | Surobaki | (~surobaki@137.44.222.80) |
| 2022-06-21 15:36:26 +0200 | frost | (~frost@user/frost) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2022-06-21 15:38:26 +0200 | <geekosaur> | take a look at RuntimeRep. there's one common BoxedRep and every unboxed type has its own rep |
| 2022-06-21 15:38:53 +0200 | <geekosaur> | so you can't be polymorphic over all unboxed reps |
| 2022-06-21 15:39:28 +0200 | mishugana | (~mishugana@user/mishugana) |
| 2022-06-21 15:39:54 +0200 | mishugana | (~mishugana@user/mishugana) () |
| 2022-06-21 15:40:06 +0200 | <Clinton[m]> | geekosaur: so basically you are saying I have to copy/pasta for every different unboxed rep (which is pretty much every type unless they share the same unboxed rep) |
| 2022-06-21 15:40:16 +0200 | <geekosaur> | yes |
| 2022-06-21 15:40:19 +0200 | <Clinton[m]> | * unboxed rep)? |
| 2022-06-21 15:40:32 +0200 | <geekosaur> | someone else may have more to add, but that's what it looks like to me |
| 2022-06-21 15:41:48 +0200 | Vajb | (~Vajb@2001:999:40:4c50:1b24:879c:6df3:1d06) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2022-06-21 15:42:16 +0200 | <Surobaki> | Hi, I wanted to ask if I´m approaching this right: I want to make a simple type that is a subset of the String type. Specifically just a type that could be one of the three string literals ´x´, ´y´ or ´z´. I see how people create datatypes that infer from other types but I don´t think I understand how to create datatypes that infer from concrete values. Should I be using a datatype or am I using the wrong tool for the job? Could I b |
| 2022-06-21 15:42:17 +0200 | <Surobaki> | e doing something wrong in my declaration? |
| 2022-06-21 15:42:42 +0200 | Vajb | (~Vajb@hag-jnsbng11-58c3a8-176.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 2022-06-21 15:43:20 +0200 | <geekosaur> | Surobaki, Haskell doesn't support subtyping (which is what you're doing if you try to limit to particular values of some other type) |
| 2022-06-21 15:44:09 +0200 | <geekosaur> | you could do `data MySubtype = MyX | MyY | MyZ` and write custom Read and Show instances, but that's not really the same thing |
| 2022-06-21 15:44:22 +0200 | <Surobaki> | I see, thank you! Is there no alternative? Also reading back on what I wrote I do realise that I should be using Char instead of String since I´m working with ASCII literals |
| 2022-06-21 15:44:23 +0200 | <geekosaur> | I think Liquid Haskell supports subtyping |
| 2022-06-21 15:44:54 +0200 | <Surobaki> | I see I see, thank you for the feedback! It´s really helpful |
| 2022-06-21 15:46:01 +0200 | ccntrq1 | (~Thunderbi@dynamic-077-006-196-127.77.6.pool.telefonica.de) |
| 2022-06-21 15:46:33 +0200 | ccntrq | (~Thunderbi@dynamic-077-003-244-019.77.3.pool.telefonica.de) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 2022-06-21 15:46:33 +0200 | ccntrq1 | ccntrq |
| 2022-06-21 15:46:40 +0200 | money | (~Gambino@user/polo) (Quit: money) |
| 2022-06-21 15:51:31 +0200 | Sgeo | (~Sgeo@user/sgeo) |
| 2022-06-21 15:51:33 +0200 | xf00b4r | (~soukenka@217.196.113.70) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2022-06-21 15:52:48 +0200 | money | (~Gambino@user/polo) |
| 2022-06-21 15:52:57 +0200 | <dminuoso> | But we do have subtyping! |
| 2022-06-21 15:53:01 +0200 | <dminuoso> | Multiple ways even! |
| 2022-06-21 15:53:51 +0200 | <geekosaur> | I don't think Int vs. Integer counts, especially given all the weird machinery needed to pretend it's subtyping |
| 2022-06-21 15:54:34 +0200 | money | (~Gambino@user/polo) (Client Quit) |
| 2022-06-21 15:55:05 +0200 | Kaiepi | (~Kaiepi@156.34.47.253) |
| 2022-06-21 15:55:51 +0200 | acidjnk_new3 | (~acidjnk@dynamic-046-114-175-104.46.114.pool.telefonica.de) |
| 2022-06-21 15:55:57 +0200 | <kuribas> | geekosaur's solution feels more idiomatic |
| 2022-06-21 15:55:57 +0200 | cross | (~cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net) |
| 2022-06-21 15:56:28 +0200 | <maerwald> | Haskell has subtyping? I guess that's why I constantly have to convert between internal and API data types |
| 2022-06-21 15:56:52 +0200 | <kuribas> | in idris you could pass a constraint. |
| 2022-06-21 15:57:18 +0200 | <dminuoso> | maerwald: https://simonmar.github.io/bib/papers/ext-exceptions.pdf for instance. |
| 2022-06-21 15:57:43 +0200 | <kuribas> | IsJust (s `Elem` ['x', 'y', 'z'] === True) => s -> ... |
| 2022-06-21 15:57:58 +0200 | <maerwald> | right... I should just pass my data through the exception system xD |
| 2022-06-21 15:58:31 +0200 | odnes | (~odnes@5-203-208-94.pat.nym.cosmote.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2022-06-21 15:58:47 +0200 | <kuribas> | you can simulate subtyping. |
| 2022-06-21 15:58:48 +0200 | <dminuoso> | Im just saying you can get some subtyping behavior using `cast`. |
| 2022-06-21 15:58:57 +0200 | <dminuoso> | Which is what the exception machinery is based on ultimately |
| 2022-06-21 16:03:48 +0200 | jonathanx_ | (~jonathan@dyn-5-sc.cdg.chalmers.se) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 2022-06-21 16:04:37 +0200 | Surobaki | (~surobaki@137.44.222.80) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 2022-06-21 16:05:08 +0200 | jonathanx | (~jonathan@94.234.115.58) |
| 2022-06-21 16:06:30 +0200 | arthurs115 | (~arthurs11@163.5.10.193) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-06-21 16:06:59 +0200 | ccntrq1 | (~Thunderbi@dynamic-077-003-121-037.77.3.pool.telefonica.de) |
| 2022-06-21 16:07:11 +0200 | dschrempf | (~dominik@070-207.dynamic.dsl.fonira.net) |
| 2022-06-21 16:09:09 +0200 | ccntrq | (~Thunderbi@dynamic-077-006-196-127.77.6.pool.telefonica.de) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 2022-06-21 16:09:09 +0200 | ccntrq1 | ccntrq |
| 2022-06-21 16:09:45 +0200 | fweht | (uid404746@id-404746.lymington.irccloud.com) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) |
| 2022-06-21 16:10:14 +0200 | dsrt^ | (~dsrt@12.1.86.165) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
| 2022-06-21 16:14:23 +0200 | acidjnk_new3 | (~acidjnk@dynamic-046-114-175-104.46.114.pool.telefonica.de) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2022-06-21 16:15:14 +0200 | troydm | (~troydm@host-176-37-124-197.b025.la.net.ua) |
| 2022-06-21 16:15:47 +0200 | jonathanx | (~jonathan@94.234.115.58) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2022-06-21 16:19:42 +0200 | neoatnebula | (~neoatnebu@2409:4071:4e8a:6f9d:4507:b248:6603:16fb) |
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| 2022-06-21 16:28:02 +0200 | shriekingnoise | (~shrieking@201.212.175.181) |
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| 2022-06-21 16:52:24 +0200 | haskellapprenti | (~haskellap@204.14.236.213) |
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| 2022-06-21 16:54:19 +0200 | <haskellapprenti> | hullo i have q - I'm trying to implement an any function, point free, using foldr. Heres what I have: myAny4 f = foldr (f . (||)) False. This is wrong, but what I want to do if apply f to two arguments, before apply the or operator (||) to two arguments. Is there a way I can convert a single argument function f to apply to two arguments? |
| 2022-06-21 16:54:30 +0200 | arthurs115 | (~arthurs11@163.5.10.193) |
| 2022-06-21 16:54:33 +0200 | <haskellapprenti> | myAny4 :: (a -> Bool) -> [a] -> Bool |
| 2022-06-21 16:54:34 +0200 | dschrempf | (~dominik@070-207.dynamic.dsl.fonira.net) (Quit: WeeChat 3.5) |
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| 2022-06-21 16:55:02 +0200 | arthurs115 | (~arthurs11@163.5.10.193) |
| 2022-06-21 16:55:25 +0200 | arthurs115 | (~arthurs11@163.5.10.193) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2022-06-21 16:55:26 +0200 | <geekosaur> | maybe you want `((f .) . (||))`? |
| 2022-06-21 16:55:36 +0200 | arthurs115 | (~arthurs11@163.5.10.193) |
| 2022-06-21 16:55:58 +0200 | arthurs115 | (~arthurs11@163.5.10.193) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2022-06-21 16:56:09 +0200 | arthurs115 | (~arthurs11@163.5.10.193) |
| 2022-06-21 16:56:25 +0200 | <geekosaur> | otherwise I'm not quite sure how you would expect a single parameter function to work on two parameters |
| 2022-06-21 16:56:28 +0200 | arthurs115 | (~arthurs11@163.5.10.193) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2022-06-21 16:56:37 +0200 | <geekosaur> | and in any case (||) produces one result, not two |
| 2022-06-21 16:56:42 +0200 | arthurs115 | (~arthurs11@163.5.10.193) |
| 2022-06-21 16:57:22 +0200 | <geekosaur> | hm, maybe you want `f` on the other side? ``` ((||) `on` f) ``` |
| 2022-06-21 16:57:55 +0200 | nikkollo | (~nikkollo@host-82-135-30-3.customer.m-online.net) (Quit: Client closed) |
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| 2022-06-21 16:58:07 +0200 | arthurs115 | (~arthurs11@163.5.10.193) |
| 2022-06-21 16:58:24 +0200 | acidjnk_new | (~acidjnk@dynamic-046-114-169-114.46.114.pool.telefonica.de) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 2022-06-21 16:59:03 +0200 | pretty_dumm_guy | (trottel@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/prettydummguy/x-88029655) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 2022-06-21 17:00:14 +0200 | <haskellapprenti> | ah i didn't know about the on function - that looks like what i want, i'll give that a try |
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| 2022-06-21 17:08:40 +0200 | pleo | (~pleo@user/pleo) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 2022-06-21 17:10:41 +0200 | <haskellapprenti> | eh, that also doesn't work, getting the error |
| 2022-06-21 17:10:42 +0200 | <haskellapprenti> | Expected type: a -> Bool -> Bool |
| 2022-06-21 17:10:42 +0200 | <haskellapprenti> | Actual type: a -> a -> Bool |
| 2022-06-21 17:10:54 +0200 | <haskellapprenti> | for myAny4 f = foldr ((||) `on` f) False |
| 2022-06-21 17:14:07 +0200 | acidjnk | (~acidjnk@dynamic-046-114-169-114.46.114.pool.telefonica.de) |
| 2022-06-21 17:15:00 +0200 | lortabac | (~lortabac@2a01:e0a:541:b8f0:ab81:b7cb:626a:e218) (Quit: WeeChat 2.8) |
| 2022-06-21 17:15:29 +0200 | money | (~Gambino@user/polo) |
| 2022-06-21 17:15:38 +0200 | Guest6869 | (~Gambino@user/polo) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2022-06-21 17:18:07 +0200 | <haskellapprenti> | full error: https://paste.tomsmeding.com/UVEL25ZK |
| 2022-06-21 17:18:44 +0200 | <haskellapprenti> | I don't understand this part: |
| 2022-06-21 17:18:44 +0200 | <haskellapprenti> | the type signature for: |
| 2022-06-21 17:18:45 +0200 | <haskellapprenti> | myAny4 :: forall a. (a -> Bool) -> [a] -> Bool |
| 2022-06-21 17:18:46 +0200 | <haskellapprenti> | Expected type: a -> Bool -> Bool |
| 2022-06-21 17:18:46 +0200 | <haskellapprenti> | Actual type: a -> a -> Bool |
| 2022-06-21 17:18:52 +0200 | <[exa]> | haskellapprenti: no need to paste here :] |
| 2022-06-21 17:19:01 +0200 | <[exa]> | haskellapprenti: anyway it looks like your type signature is too generic |
| 2022-06-21 17:19:18 +0200 | <[exa]> | you might be pushing it to think that it can work with any `a` while it in fact can't |
| 2022-06-21 17:19:27 +0200 | <[exa]> | :t \f -> foldr ((||) `on` f) False |
| 2022-06-21 17:19:29 +0200 | <lambdabot> | Foldable t => (Bool -> Bool) -> t Bool -> Bool |
| 2022-06-21 17:20:43 +0200 | <haskellapprenti> | ah hm. but can't i make f a function that has type a -> Bool? |
| 2022-06-21 17:21:00 +0200 | acidjnk | (~acidjnk@dynamic-046-114-169-114.46.114.pool.telefonica.de) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
| 2022-06-21 17:21:01 +0200 | <haskellapprenti> | that's my desired behavior at least |
| 2022-06-21 17:21:07 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@c-001-001-018.client.esciencecenter.eduvpn.nl) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 2022-06-21 17:21:22 +0200 | <[exa]> | yeah that should work, but you must not apply it to _both_ arguments of the folding function |
| 2022-06-21 17:21:22 +0200 | <haskellapprenti> | basically making my own implementation of any function, with fold, point free in the folding function |
| 2022-06-21 17:21:25 +0200 | pleo | (~pleo@user/pleo) |
| 2022-06-21 17:21:39 +0200 | <[exa]> | because one of the arguments is already bool, and the typesystem needs a single type for the applied `f` |
| 2022-06-21 17:22:05 +0200 | <haskellapprenti> | is it possible to just apply it to one? what would the syntax be for that? |
| 2022-06-21 17:22:19 +0200 | <haskellapprenti> | within the foldr bit |
| 2022-06-21 17:22:24 +0200 | <[exa]> | yeah, like, at worst you can write a lambda for that |
| 2022-06-21 17:22:57 +0200 | <haskellapprenti> | With a lamdba, i'd imagine itd be (\x y -> f x (||) y) |
| 2022-06-21 17:23:02 +0200 | <[exa]> | yap |
| 2022-06-21 17:23:06 +0200 | acidjnk | (~acidjnk@dynamic-046-114-169-114.46.114.pool.telefonica.de) |
| 2022-06-21 17:23:16 +0200 | <[exa]> | which makes a nice pointfree conversion exercise :] |
| 2022-06-21 17:23:19 +0200 | <haskellapprenti> | so is it impossible to make that fold function point free? |
| 2022-06-21 17:23:24 +0200 | <haskellapprenti> | haha right |
| 2022-06-21 17:23:39 +0200 | <[exa]> | all λ-functions are convertible to pointfree form |
| 2022-06-21 17:24:13 +0200 | <haskellapprenti> | blerg lol |
| 2022-06-21 17:24:24 +0200 | <[exa]> | like, if you imagine it as `\x y -> (||) (f x) y`, you can start removing parameters right? |
| 2022-06-21 17:24:39 +0200 | <haskellapprenti> | hmm |
| 2022-06-21 17:25:04 +0200 | <[exa]> | (Proof: all λ functions have SKI calculus form -> just build them from SKI which is pointfree for free) |
| 2022-06-21 17:25:52 +0200 | <[exa]> | (practical value of that theorem is....theoretical though.) |
| 2022-06-21 17:26:18 +0200 | <zzz> | \x -> (||) (f x) |
| 2022-06-21 17:26:23 +0200 | <haskellapprenti> | shmeh Im unfamiliar with SKI calculus - any good references for me to get started there? |
| 2022-06-21 17:26:32 +0200 | <haskellapprenti> | zzz: yeah I was thinking that |
| 2022-06-21 17:26:39 +0200 | <zzz> | (||) . f |
| 2022-06-21 17:26:50 +0200 | <[exa]> | haskellapprenti: you don't need to honestly, but wiki will have something I guess |
| 2022-06-21 17:27:02 +0200 | <[exa]> | ok there we go |
| 2022-06-21 17:27:14 +0200 | <haskellapprenti> | zzz: AHHH NICE |
| 2022-06-21 17:27:38 +0200 | <zzz> | just a little push ;) |
| 2022-06-21 17:27:46 +0200 | <[exa]> | @pl \x y -> f x || y -- spoiler |
| 2022-06-21 17:27:47 +0200 | <lambdabot> | (||) . f |
| 2022-06-21 17:28:29 +0200 | <haskellapprenti> | [exa]: lol that is a nice thing to know about |
| 2022-06-21 17:28:32 +0200 | lyle | (~lyle@104.246.145.85) |
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| 2022-06-21 17:41:05 +0200 | arthurs115 | (~arthurs11@163.5.10.193) |
| 2022-06-21 17:41:24 +0200 | acidjnk | (~acidjnk@dynamic-046-114-169-114.46.114.pool.telefonica.de) |
| 2022-06-21 17:41:28 +0200 | haskellapprenti | (~haskellap@204.14.236.213) (Quit: Client closed) |
| 2022-06-21 17:42:14 +0200 | coot | (~coot@213.134.190.95) (Quit: coot) |
| 2022-06-21 17:45:40 +0200 | suro | (~surobaki@137.44.222.80) |
| 2022-06-21 17:45:44 +0200 | Surobaki | (~surobaki@137.44.222.80) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2022-06-21 17:46:15 +0200 | cfricke | (~cfricke@user/cfricke) (Quit: WeeChat 3.5) |
| 2022-06-21 17:47:11 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@c-001-001-018.client.esciencecenter.eduvpn.nl) |
| 2022-06-21 17:47:11 +0200 | yauhsien | (~yauhsien@61-231-23-53.dynamic-ip.hinet.net) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 2022-06-21 17:47:57 +0200 | acidjnk_new | (~acidjnk@dynamic-046-114-169-114.46.114.pool.telefonica.de) |
| 2022-06-21 17:49:44 +0200 | CiaoSen | (~Jura@p200300c95735ef002a3a4dfffe84dbd5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 2022-06-21 17:50:35 +0200 | acidjnk | (~acidjnk@dynamic-046-114-169-114.46.114.pool.telefonica.de) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 2022-06-21 17:57:20 +0200 | segfaultfizzbuzz | (~segfaultf@192-184-223-90.static.sonic.net) |
| 2022-06-21 17:58:50 +0200 | <segfaultfizzbuzz> | when i write code in "a language" or in a particular manner, what fundamentally limits the ability of the compiler to efficiently translate that code into an efficient/the most efficient possible machine code? |
| 2022-06-21 17:59:00 +0200 | <segfaultfizzbuzz> | is it like a graph equivalence problem or something? |
| 2022-06-21 17:59:02 +0200 | raehik | (~raehik@cpc95906-rdng25-2-0-cust156.15-3.cable.virginm.net) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2022-06-21 18:00:18 +0200 | raehik | (~raehik@cpc95906-rdng25-2-0-cust156.15-3.cable.virginm.net) |
| 2022-06-21 18:02:29 +0200 | arthurs115 | (~arthurs11@163.5.10.193) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 2022-06-21 18:02:48 +0200 | ccntrq1 | (~Thunderbi@dynamic-077-001-095-237.77.1.pool.telefonica.de) |
| 2022-06-21 18:04:56 +0200 | eggplantade | (~Eggplanta@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:9:59a4:5055:fd8c) |
| 2022-06-21 18:04:59 +0200 | ccntrq | (~Thunderbi@dynamic-077-001-095-237.77.1.pool.telefonica.de) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
| 2022-06-21 18:04:59 +0200 | ccntrq1 | ccntrq |
| 2022-06-21 18:05:52 +0200 | arthurs115 | (~arthurs11@163.5.10.193) |
| 2022-06-21 18:08:58 +0200 | eggplantade | (~Eggplanta@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:9:59a4:5055:fd8c) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-06-21 18:09:37 +0200 | ccntrq1 | (~Thunderbi@dynamic-077-001-095-237.77.1.pool.telefonica.de) |
| 2022-06-21 18:09:49 +0200 | money | (~Gambino@user/polo) (Quit: money) |
| 2022-06-21 18:09:57 +0200 | finn_elija | (~finn_elij@user/finn-elija/x-0085643) |
| 2022-06-21 18:09:57 +0200 | FinnElija | (~finn_elij@user/finn-elija/x-0085643) (Killed (NickServ (Forcing logout FinnElija -> finn_elija))) |
| 2022-06-21 18:09:57 +0200 | finn_elija | FinnElija |
| 2022-06-21 18:11:31 +0200 | ccntrq1 | (~Thunderbi@dynamic-077-001-095-237.77.1.pool.telefonica.de) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2022-06-21 18:11:38 +0200 | ccntrq | (~Thunderbi@dynamic-077-001-095-237.77.1.pool.telefonica.de) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-06-21 18:13:31 +0200 | Vajb | (~Vajb@hag-jnsbng11-58c3a8-176.dhcp.inet.fi) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2022-06-21 18:13:55 +0200 | jafarlihi | (~user@188.253.237.13) |
| 2022-06-21 18:14:51 +0200 | money | (~Gambino@user/polo) |
| 2022-06-21 18:15:08 +0200 | MajorBiscuit | (~MajorBisc@c-001-003-023.client.tudelft.eduvpn.nl) (Quit: WeeChat 3.5) |
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| 2022-06-21 18:15:17 +0200 | arthurs115 | (~arthurs11@163.5.10.193) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) |
| 2022-06-21 18:15:38 +0200 | Vajb | (~Vajb@hag-jnsbng11-58c3a8-176.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 2022-06-21 18:16:10 +0200 | arthurs115 | (~arthurs11@163.5.10.198) |
| 2022-06-21 18:17:08 +0200 | coot | (~coot@213.134.190.95) |
| 2022-06-21 18:19:18 +0200 | jafarlihi | (~user@188.253.237.13) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 2022-06-21 18:19:32 +0200 | <kuribas> | segfaultfizzbuzz: the most efficient possible machine code is a very hard problem. |
| 2022-06-21 18:19:43 +0200 | <kuribas> | usually compilers generate "good enough" code. |
| 2022-06-21 18:19:49 +0200 | <maerwald> | jackdk: the only way I found to make it work is this: https://github.com/TerrorJack/template-haskell-jailbreak |
| 2022-06-21 18:20:32 +0200 | <segfaultfizzbuzz> | well okay, but what are these compilers doing which is so difficult |
| 2022-06-21 18:20:41 +0200 | Vajb | (~Vajb@hag-jnsbng11-58c3a8-176.dhcp.inet.fi) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2022-06-21 18:20:44 +0200 | <kuribas> | segfaultfizzbuzz: and efficiency is usually more a function of the right algorihms, a good architecture, than the correct order of instructions. |
| 2022-06-21 18:20:50 +0200 | Vajb | (~Vajb@hag-jnsbng11-58c3a8-176.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 2022-06-21 18:21:05 +0200 | <segfaultfizzbuzz> | like if i think about chess i understand that humans were good at hallucinating likely future scenarios |
| 2022-06-21 18:21:08 +0200 | <kuribas> | a lot of stuff :) |
| 2022-06-21 18:21:21 +0200 | <segfaultfizzbuzz> | but i feel blind when i think about what humans are doing when they code |
| 2022-06-21 18:21:31 +0200 | <kuribas> | in the case of functional language, there is first a step to remove the functional abstractions. |
| 2022-06-21 18:21:47 +0200 | pleo | (~pleo@user/pleo) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2022-06-21 18:22:01 +0200 | <kuribas> | When that is done it is converted to a model that the compiler can execute. |
| 2022-06-21 18:22:26 +0200 | <kuribas> | for ghc it's the STG. |
| 2022-06-21 18:22:44 +0200 | <kuribas> | https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/wikis/commentary/compiler/generated-code |
| 2022-06-21 18:23:08 +0200 | pleo | (~pleo@user/pleo) |
| 2022-06-21 18:23:16 +0200 | <segfaultfizzbuzz> | right... |
| 2022-06-21 18:23:26 +0200 | <darkling> | At the lowest level, there's also a load of combinatorial problem solving. Stuff like register allocation, for example -- which registers should be assigned to which variables within a code block, and for how long? |
| 2022-06-21 18:23:29 +0200 | <kuribas> | segfaultfizzbuzz: I don't think good chess players halucinate the future. I think they are just great at remembering patterns, which work, and which don't. |
| 2022-06-21 18:23:31 +0200 | _ht | (~quassel@231-169-21-31.ftth.glasoperator.nl) |
| 2022-06-21 18:23:53 +0200 | acidjnk_new | (~acidjnk@dynamic-046-114-169-114.46.114.pool.telefonica.de) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 2022-06-21 18:24:21 +0200 | <segfaultfizzbuzz> | kuribas: okay, sure maybe humans are just a great LUT when it comes to chess |
| 2022-06-21 18:24:32 +0200 | money | (~Gambino@user/polo) (Quit: money) |
| 2022-06-21 18:24:35 +0200 | <segfaultfizzbuzz> | but i still don't have a sense of what programming is |
| 2022-06-21 18:24:37 +0200 | <kuribas> | yeah, and the optimal machine code is probably NP complete or so |
| 2022-06-21 18:24:49 +0200 | Vajb | (~Vajb@hag-jnsbng11-58c3a8-176.dhcp.inet.fi) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2022-06-21 18:25:12 +0200 | <segfaultfizzbuzz> | right but humans dont have magical powers which allow us to solve NP complete problems better than computers... we might just know some heuristics that programmers can't yet construct |
| 2022-06-21 18:26:23 +0200 | <darkling> | Very few people actually care about how a construct in any given language goes down to execution at the transistor level. |
| 2022-06-21 18:26:34 +0200 | <darkling> | (Or, indeed, to any level below the language itself) |
| 2022-06-21 18:26:39 +0200 | <kuribas> | computers are pretty good at generating low level code. |
| 2022-06-21 18:26:57 +0200 | <darkling> | So programming is manipulating the language you're working in to do what you want it to. |
| 2022-06-21 18:27:11 +0200 | <kuribas> | Though compiling function code to efficient machine code is still an active research htopic. |
| 2022-06-21 18:27:28 +0200 | <kuribas> | supercompilation can give amazing results, but can also explode the compile time. |
| 2022-06-21 18:27:36 +0200 | Vajb | (~Vajb@2001:999:40:4c50:1b24:879c:6df3:1d06) |
| 2022-06-21 18:27:40 +0200 | <segfaultfizzbuzz> | another thing a compiler could do is make the code parallel or asynchronous,... |
| 2022-06-21 18:27:55 +0200 | <darkling> | Again, that's *really hard*. |
| 2022-06-21 18:28:01 +0200 | <segfaultfizzbuzz> | but i think despite many marketing claims automatic approaches still don't work for that except for the most trivial situations |
| 2022-06-21 18:28:01 +0200 | Vajb | (~Vajb@2001:999:40:4c50:1b24:879c:6df3:1d06) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2022-06-21 18:28:10 +0200 | <darkling> | Some cases it's obvious, but the general case? Forget it. |
| 2022-06-21 18:28:10 +0200 | Vajb | (~Vajb@hag-jnsbng11-58c3a8-176.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 2022-06-21 18:28:13 +0200 | <segfaultfizzbuzz> | go (the board game) was once *really* hard |
| 2022-06-21 18:28:34 +0200 | acidjnk_new | (~acidjnk@dynamic-046-114-169-114.46.114.pool.telefonica.de) |
| 2022-06-21 18:28:36 +0200 | jakalx | (~jakalx@base.jakalx.net) (Error from remote client) |
| 2022-06-21 18:28:47 +0200 | <segfaultfizzbuzz> | yeah it's okay if the first galaxy brain compilers require a supercomputer to operate |
| 2022-06-21 18:28:52 +0200 | <kuribas> | yes, modern compilers to try to exploit paralellism in modern CPUs. |
| 2022-06-21 18:28:57 +0200 | <geekosaur> | it's "solved" but I think AI still uses mostly brute force, whereas the best human players somehow manipulate board configurations as gestalts |
| 2022-06-21 18:29:06 +0200 | <kuribas> | Which can often depend on how you write a calculation. |
| 2022-06-21 18:29:13 +0200 | jakalx | (~jakalx@base.jakalx.net) |
| 2022-06-21 18:29:34 +0200 | <darkling> | The novel AI-derived strategies in Go have been studied and adopted by the top players, I believe. |
| 2022-06-21 18:29:34 +0200 | <kuribas> | geekosaur: deep learning isn't brute force, is it? |
| 2022-06-21 18:29:52 +0200 | <geekosaur> | it can be, it's pattern matching at its root |
| 2022-06-21 18:30:05 +0200 | <geekosaur> | it's just especially good at catching patterns humans miss |
| 2022-06-21 18:30:28 +0200 | <darkling> | Unfortunately, it's also exceptionally good at catching patterns that humans dismiss as unimportant. |
| 2022-06-21 18:30:41 +0200 | <geekosaur> | we';re still not certain what the best human players do bit it seems to be more thanjust pattern matching |
| 2022-06-21 18:30:54 +0200 | jafarlihi | (~user@188.253.225.30) |
| 2022-06-21 18:31:48 +0200 | <kuribas> | segfaultfizzbuzz: besides, some humans may "think" they are good at writing assembly, but are probably beaten by a compiler. |
| 2022-06-21 18:32:05 +0200 | <segfaultfizzbuzz> | i mean either you have heuristics which are pattern recognition/statistical, or you can calculate stuff really quickly and evaluate all of the logically possible situations |
| 2022-06-21 18:33:12 +0200 | eggplantade | (~Eggplanta@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:9:59a4:5055:fd8c) |
| 2022-06-21 18:33:42 +0200 | arthurs115 | (~arthurs11@163.5.10.198) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2022-06-21 18:33:56 +0200 | Vajb | (~Vajb@hag-jnsbng11-58c3a8-176.dhcp.inet.fi) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2022-06-21 18:34:29 +0200 | <darkling> | There's a load of combinatorial optimisation techniques in there too, which tend to fall in the middle (GAs, simulated annealing), plus some things that are effectively full enumeration but with *really* strong discard rules (like MILP solvers) |
| 2022-06-21 18:34:47 +0200 | Vajb | (~Vajb@hag-jnsbng11-58c3a8-176.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 2022-06-21 18:35:25 +0200 | <darkling> | Those don't tend to get used in compilers, though, because they're slow and the hard problems in compilers are (I suspect) much smaller and more tractable to a good enough solution. |
| 2022-06-21 18:35:54 +0200 | <darkling> | In that area, though, humans are in general disturbingly good at solving problems compared to the state of the art. |
| 2022-06-21 18:35:54 +0200 | <segfaultfizzbuzz> | there seems to be a supposition that a compiler must run on a workstation PC |
| 2022-06-21 18:36:11 +0200 | <segfaultfizzbuzz> | but i haven't seen projects which think of a compiler as more of a supercomputer-scale project |
| 2022-06-21 18:36:44 +0200 | <darkling> | If your compiler needs hours on a supercomputer to run, for the purposes of saving a few nanoseconds per cycle, it's not worth running it. |
| 2022-06-21 18:36:52 +0200 | suro | (~surobaki@137.44.222.80) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2022-06-21 18:37:22 +0200 | <darkling> | People *do* change compilers for performance -- you'll find that Intel-based HPC systems tend to use the Intel compilers, because they generate much faster code than, say, gcc. |
| 2022-06-21 18:37:24 +0200 | <segfaultfizzbuzz> | i think computers can handily out-process humans at serial logical tasks (like evaluating all possible tetris moves for the next piece) and so our only advantage is in parallelism and heuristics |
| 2022-06-21 18:38:30 +0200 | <int-e> | darkling: Well, it might be, depending on how often you run it. I wonder whether any big tech company engages in some sort of continuous compilation, where you'd allocate, say, 1% or so of your computing resources to profiling and optimizing hotspots... |
| 2022-06-21 18:38:56 +0200 | <int-e> | "it" being the worth of nanoseconds savings |
| 2022-06-21 18:39:14 +0200 | <segfaultfizzbuzz> | my attention isn't really on this hyper-optimization stuff |
| 2022-06-21 18:39:45 +0200 | <darkling> | int-e: They probably spend quite a bit more than that, if you include things like optimising JIT VMs. |
| 2022-06-21 18:40:25 +0200 | <segfaultfizzbuzz> | i think the main reason (?? with maybe a small number of exceptions??) people choose "lower-level" languages like C is that the compiler can't transform the code to something efficient or that the programmer needs to "control" something like memory allocation |
| 2022-06-21 18:40:50 +0200 | <int-e> | segfaultfizzbuzz: heuristics... we can be both flixible (creative) and narrow in the search space in ways a traditional compiler can't. |
| 2022-06-21 18:40:58 +0200 | <segfaultfizzbuzz> | and yeah maybe you need a fixed layout for some device you are connecting to but if we ignore that or require that to simply be some kind of annotation |
| 2022-06-21 18:41:05 +0200 | <int-e> | darkling: that's a bit sad though because the effort often isn't reused. |
| 2022-06-21 18:41:08 +0200 | <geekosaur[m]> | Iirc even just managing registers is still an open topic |
| 2022-06-21 18:41:17 +0200 | <segfaultfizzbuzz> | managing registers? |
| 2022-06-21 18:41:46 +0200 | <int-e> | register allocation, renaming, spilling |
| 2022-06-21 18:41:48 +0200 | <Bulby[m]> | your name is very ontopic 😁 |
| 2022-06-21 18:41:53 +0200 | <darkling> | What I mentioned above -- which variables do you assign to which registers? |
| 2022-06-21 18:42:24 +0200 | liz_ | (~liz@cpc84585-newc17-2-0-cust60.16-2.cable.virginm.net) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 2022-06-21 18:42:28 +0200 | <segfaultfizzbuzz> | conjecture: if a problem is still an open research problem, then with high likelihood it can only be solved heuristically (e.g. statistical methods, ai, blah blah) |
| 2022-06-21 18:43:45 +0200 | <darkling> | There are some things that aren't ever likely to be solvable other than heuristically, open research problems or not. All you can do is shave fractions of time off, or add fractions of accuracy on (or trade off those two in interesting ways) |
| 2022-06-21 18:44:32 +0200 | <darkling> | (At least, barring completely new computing paradigms like quantum, or massive and unlikely theoretical breakthroughs, like P=NP) |
| 2022-06-21 18:44:57 +0200 | <segfaultfizzbuzz> | there was an acm paper saying that half of algorithms hadn't budged in their speed in decades |
| 2022-06-21 18:45:11 +0200 | <darkling> | Right. |
| 2022-06-21 18:45:18 +0200 | <segfaultfizzbuzz> | so either computer scientists have become lazy/aren't incentivized to make faster algos, or we have hit a mathematical limit for these things |
| 2022-06-21 18:45:36 +0200 | <segfaultfizzbuzz> | quantum won't work |
| 2022-06-21 18:45:58 +0200 | <segfaultfizzbuzz> | serial computations are as fast as they will ever be and are already vastly superior to human serial computation |
| 2022-06-21 18:46:03 +0200 | <darkling> | Depends on what you want to do. |
| 2022-06-21 18:46:07 +0200 | <segfaultfizzbuzz> | so all there is is parallel scale-out and heuristic computation |
| 2022-06-21 18:46:13 +0200 | jafarlihi | (~user@188.253.225.30) (Quit: WeeChat 3.5) |
| 2022-06-21 18:46:56 +0200 | <darkling> | The D-wave systems do a really efficient simulated annealing process, for example. Pretty specialised, but use quantum effects to achieve good results faster than you can do usefully on a non-quantum machine. |
| 2022-06-21 18:47:41 +0200 | <segfaultfizzbuzz> | you are reminding me that there are some public quantum companies and that i can short them |
| 2022-06-21 18:50:23 +0200 | <segfaultfizzbuzz> | if you have a favorite quantum superiority result please feel free to show |
| 2022-06-21 18:51:36 +0200 | mbuf | (~Shakthi@122.174.192.200) (Quit: Leaving) |
| 2022-06-21 18:51:44 +0200 | kimjetwav | (~user@2607:fea8:2340:da00:50f3:52db:d9f1:f387) |
| 2022-06-21 18:52:28 +0200 | GNU\Andrew | Andrew |
| 2022-06-21 18:55:42 +0200 | dashkal1 | Dashkal |
| 2022-06-21 18:57:09 +0200 | jgeerds | (~jgeerds@55d45f48.access.ecotel.net) |
| 2022-06-21 18:57:24 +0200 | <leah2> | i used to believe this too but then i saw ibm's timeline |
| 2022-06-21 18:59:11 +0200 | BusConscious | (~martin@ip5f5bdedc.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) |
| 2022-06-21 18:59:38 +0200 | pleo | (~pleo@user/pleo) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-06-21 19:01:21 +0200 | <BusConscious> | hello everyone how can I create a stack project in a existing directory? |
| 2022-06-21 19:01:43 +0200 | <BusConscious> | Directory ~/Project/hssh/ already exists. Aborting. |
| 2022-06-21 19:02:02 +0200 | <BusConscious> | (I already have mit git setup in that directory) |
| 2022-06-21 19:03:39 +0200 | <sm> | what command are you running ? |
| 2022-06-21 19:03:49 +0200 | <BusConscious> | stack new hssh |
| 2022-06-21 19:04:00 +0200 | natechan | (~nate@98.45.169.16) |
| 2022-06-21 19:04:00 +0200 | <BusConscious> | in Project |
| 2022-06-21 19:04:04 +0200 | causal | (~user@2001:470:ea0f:3:329c:23ff:fe3f:1e0e) (Quit: WeeChat 3.5) |
| 2022-06-21 19:04:16 +0200 | <sm> | anything useful in stack new --help ? |
| 2022-06-21 19:05:09 +0200 | <BusConscious> | maybe --force? |
| 2022-06-21 19:05:26 +0200 | <sm> | what directory are you running it in ? |
| 2022-06-21 19:05:37 +0200 | <BusConscious> | in Project |
| 2022-06-21 19:06:04 +0200 | k8yun | (~k8yun@user/k8yun) |
| 2022-06-21 19:06:05 +0200 | <sm> | hssh is an existing cabal project that you want to add a stack.yaml to, maybe ? |
| 2022-06-21 19:06:43 +0200 | <BusConscious> | no it's just a git repo with no stack or cabal but some haskell sources, that I have built without build-system so far. |
| 2022-06-21 19:06:51 +0200 | <BusConscious> | It's my project directory |
| 2022-06-21 19:07:26 +0200 | <BusConscious> | and now I want a proper build system to manage dependencies, but what I don't want is a new git repository |
| 2022-06-21 19:07:47 +0200 | <sm> | hmm.. maybe cd hssh; stack new --bare hssh |
| 2022-06-21 19:08:19 +0200 | <sm> | or, to avoid risk, move your hssh out of the way until you have created the stack project |
| 2022-06-21 19:09:11 +0200 | <kuribas> | Are there companies which are willing to pay for libraries? |
| 2022-06-21 19:09:28 +0200 | <kuribas> | Like in general libraries, for database, graphql, etc... |
| 2022-06-21 19:09:32 +0200 | jakalx | (~jakalx@base.jakalx.net) (Error from remote client) |
| 2022-06-21 19:09:58 +0200 | <kuribas> | I much would prefer spending my time on that, than having to deal with poorly documented codebases, weird APIs. |
| 2022-06-21 19:10:51 +0200 | chele | (~chele@user/chele) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2022-06-21 19:11:10 +0200 | <kuribas> | Or at least, being able to improve on codebases, help guide people to cleaner, better documented code, etc... |
| 2022-06-21 19:11:30 +0200 | <kuribas> | Not just, here is the code, we need this feature out as fast as possible. |
| 2022-06-21 19:11:40 +0200 | <kuribas> | And there is no documentation, the code is the documentation! |
| 2022-06-21 19:12:06 +0200 | jakalx | (~jakalx@base.jakalx.net) |
| 2022-06-21 19:12:13 +0200 | <geekosaur> | I feel like you're in the realm of consultancies |
| 2022-06-21 19:13:23 +0200 | eggplantade | (~Eggplanta@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:9:59a4:5055:fd8c) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2022-06-21 19:13:38 +0200 | <kuribas> | like well-typed? |
| 2022-06-21 19:13:52 +0200 | <geekosaur> | there are also othersm but yes |
| 2022-06-21 19:14:06 +0200 | <sm> | you could certainly find some bounty / short-term gigs for that kind of work I think |
| 2022-06-21 19:14:07 +0200 | <geekosaur> | (tweag.io is another for example) |
| 2022-06-21 19:14:09 +0200 | <segfaultfizzbuzz> | kuribas: software is competitive enough that you are probably best off publishing an open source library, asking for donations, and then charging for customization or other tailoring |
| 2022-06-21 19:14:23 +0200 | <sm> | working on the libs they need, not the ones you want to work on, obviously |
| 2022-06-21 19:14:30 +0200 | jgeerds | (~jgeerds@55d45f48.access.ecotel.net) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 2022-06-21 19:14:38 +0200 | <segfaultfizzbuzz> | kuribas: think of redhat, for example |
| 2022-06-21 19:14:48 +0200 | <BusConscious> | what value shall I put in category and copyright in stack? |
| 2022-06-21 19:14:54 +0200 | <BusConscious> | I use Apache 2.0 |
| 2022-06-21 19:15:21 +0200 | <sm> | https://www.gnu.org/licenses/license-list.en.html |
| 2022-06-21 19:16:08 +0200 | <BusConscious> | so apache2 ok and what about category? |
| 2022-06-21 19:16:24 +0200 | sm | concentrates really hard |
| 2022-06-21 19:17:38 +0200 | <geekosaur> | https://hackage.haskell.org/packages/ starts with a list of existing categories. you can see it's a bit of a free-for-all |
| 2022-06-21 19:18:12 +0200 | <sm> | sorry, can't guess :) we don't know what you're doing |
| 2022-06-21 19:18:49 +0200 | <geekosaur> | there's even a "Shell" category, with another shell in it even |
| 2022-06-21 19:18:57 +0200 | <geekosaur> | @hackage hell |
| 2022-06-21 19:18:57 +0200 | <lambdabot> | https://hackage.haskell.org/package/hell |
| 2022-06-21 19:22:01 +0200 | leeb | (~leeb@KD106155003075.au-net.ne.jp) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 2022-06-21 19:22:11 +0200 | <BusConscious> | geekosaur: Thanks seems interesting |
| 2022-06-21 19:26:29 +0200 | kimjetwav | (~user@2607:fea8:2340:da00:50f3:52db:d9f1:f387) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2022-06-21 19:26:50 +0200 | winny | (~weechat@user/winny) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) |
| 2022-06-21 19:27:40 +0200 | heath1 | heath |
| 2022-06-21 19:28:31 +0200 | heath | (~heath@user/heath) (Quit: WeeChat 1.7) |
| 2022-06-21 19:28:34 +0200 | econo | (uid147250@user/econo) |
| 2022-06-21 19:29:05 +0200 | heath | (~heath@user/heath) |
| 2022-06-21 19:30:55 +0200 | money | (~Gambino@user/polo) |
| 2022-06-21 19:32:29 +0200 | winny | (~weechat@user/winny) |
| 2022-06-21 19:39:13 +0200 | dyeplexer | (~dyeplexer@user/dyeplexer) |
| 2022-06-21 19:42:05 +0200 | segfaultfizzbuzz | (~segfaultf@192-184-223-90.static.sonic.net) (Quit: segfaultfizzbuzz) |
| 2022-06-21 19:42:22 +0200 | Ranhir | (~Ranhir@157.97.53.139) |
| 2022-06-21 19:44:39 +0200 | alp__ | (~alp@user/alp) |
| 2022-06-21 19:47:15 +0200 | <sm> | by the way, do you know https://hackage.haskell.org/package/hssh exists ? |
| 2022-06-21 19:48:29 +0200 | money | (~Gambino@user/polo) (Quit: money) |
| 2022-06-21 19:48:58 +0200 | <monochrom> | Interesting |
| 2022-06-21 19:49:52 +0200 | pleo | (~pleo@user/pleo) |
| 2022-06-21 19:50:40 +0200 | <monochrom> | The sight of "receiveUnsafe" is not very encouraging though >:) |
| 2022-06-21 19:51:53 +0200 | <EvanR> | the other end is saying, oh you'll receive alright |
| 2022-06-21 19:52:00 +0200 | <monochrom> | (OK, we know it just means a function from System.Socket.Unsafe which can be OK if used carefully.) |
| 2022-06-21 19:54:37 +0200 | mikoto-chan | (~mikoto-ch@esm-84-240-99-143.netplaza.fi) |
| 2022-06-21 19:55:53 +0200 | money | (~Gambino@user/polo) |
| 2022-06-21 19:58:57 +0200 | kmein | (~weechat@user/kmein) (Quit: ciao kakao) |
| 2022-06-21 20:00:33 +0200 | kmein | (~weechat@user/kmein) |
| 2022-06-21 20:06:02 +0200 | kuribas | (~user@ptr-17d51emvqovheexfwgk.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2022-06-21 20:06:12 +0200 | jgeerds | (~jgeerds@55d45f48.access.ecotel.net) |
| 2022-06-21 20:07:16 +0200 | eod|fserucas_ | (~eod|fseru@193.65.114.89.rev.vodafone.pt) (Quit: Leaving) |
| 2022-06-21 20:07:16 +0200 | eod|fserucas__ | (~eod|fseru@193.65.114.89.rev.vodafone.pt) (Quit: Leaving) |
| 2022-06-21 20:09:13 +0200 | dyeplexer | (~dyeplexer@user/dyeplexer) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2022-06-21 20:09:22 +0200 | bliminse | (~bliminse@host86-164-164-134.range86-164.btcentralplus.com) (Quit: leaving) |
| 2022-06-21 20:10:55 +0200 | money | (~Gambino@user/polo) (Quit: money) |
| 2022-06-21 20:12:27 +0200 | eggplantade | (~Eggplanta@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:9:59a4:5055:fd8c) |
| 2022-06-21 20:12:37 +0200 | pleo | (~pleo@user/pleo) (Quit: quit) |
| 2022-06-21 20:14:45 +0200 | raym | (~raym@user/raym) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2022-06-21 20:15:10 +0200 | machinedgod | (~machinedg@66.244.246.252) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-06-21 20:15:41 +0200 | money | (~Gambino@user/polo) |
| 2022-06-21 20:21:38 +0200 | money | (~Gambino@user/polo) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-06-21 20:24:25 +0200 | <BusConscious> | geekosaur took a look at hell. Interesting but the goal there seems to be to be explicitly not POSIX and instead go for a more functional syntax, while I stick 100% with good ole POSIX. |
| 2022-06-21 20:24:39 +0200 | <BusConscious> | But reading the code made me realize that I should change to ByteString |
| 2022-06-21 20:24:56 +0200 | <geekosaur> | sure, I was just mentioning there was another shell already |
| 2022-06-21 20:25:01 +0200 | kmein | (~weechat@user/kmein) (Quit: ciao kakao) |
| 2022-06-21 20:25:23 +0200 | <geekosaur> | and yes, especially if you're going for POSIX you should probably stick to ByteString or ShortByteString |
| 2022-06-21 20:25:40 +0200 | <geekosaur> | the latter might be preferable because it causes less fragmentation |
| 2022-06-21 20:26:36 +0200 | <BusConscious> | Is ByteString by default strict? |
| 2022-06-21 20:26:45 +0200 | <geekosaur> | no, but it is pinned |
| 2022-06-21 20:27:02 +0200 | <zzz> | pinned? |
| 2022-06-21 20:27:08 +0200 | <geekosaur> | meaning garbage collection has to work around it rather than moving it with everything else |
| 2022-06-21 20:27:35 +0200 | <geekosaur> | (pinned memory is typically used with FFI, since it can't be moved by GC during a long FFI operation) |
| 2022-06-21 20:27:43 +0200 | money | (~Gambino@user/polo) |
| 2022-06-21 20:30:37 +0200 | <geekosaur> | hm, there are ByteString versions of the POSIX functions but not ShortByteString versions (yet?), so you may want ByteString anyway |
| 2022-06-21 20:30:49 +0200 | <EvanR> | (strict) ByteString is strict in the sense that if you evaluate any part of it, you necessarily evaluate all the bytes. If any one explodes, you explode even if you didn't look at that one |
| 2022-06-21 20:31:18 +0200 | <geekosaur> | and a lazy ByteString is a lazy list of strict ByteStrings |
| 2022-06-21 20:31:47 +0200 | <geekosaur> | they're kinda necessarily strict at some point |
| 2022-06-21 20:35:15 +0200 | money | (~Gambino@user/polo) (Quit: money) |
| 2022-06-21 20:35:48 +0200 | money | (~Gambino@user/polo) |
| 2022-06-21 20:36:51 +0200 | nate4 | (~nate@98.45.169.16) |
| 2022-06-21 20:37:30 +0200 | <BusConscious> | why does stack not create the corerect LICENSE file? |
| 2022-06-21 20:37:51 +0200 | <BusConscious> | and not the one of apache2 |
| 2022-06-21 20:39:26 +0200 | <BusConscious> | It creates a BSD three clause |
| 2022-06-21 20:39:42 +0200 | raym | (~raym@user/raym) |
| 2022-06-21 20:42:51 +0200 | <yushyin> | bug? |
| 2022-06-21 20:43:27 +0200 | <BusConscious> | I use the option -p "category:apache2" |
| 2022-06-21 20:43:47 +0200 | <BusConscious> | yushyin: either that or a legal issue |
| 2022-06-21 20:44:38 +0200 | <[exa]> | doesn't category:apache2 refer to the webserver? |
| 2022-06-21 20:44:47 +0200 | <BusConscious> | oops |
| 2022-06-21 20:44:55 +0200 | <[exa]> | (completely blind guess tho) |
| 2022-06-21 20:45:08 +0200 | <BusConscious> | I umean-p "copyright:apache2" |
| 2022-06-21 20:45:14 +0200 | <BusConscious> | of course |
| 2022-06-21 20:45:17 +0200 | money | (~Gambino@user/polo) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2022-06-21 20:46:18 +0200 | money | (~Gambino@user/polo) |
| 2022-06-21 20:47:17 +0200 | waleee | (~waleee@2001:9b0:213:7200:cc36:a556:b1e8:b340) |
| 2022-06-21 20:47:43 +0200 | kmein | (~weechat@user/kmein) |
| 2022-06-21 20:47:50 +0200 | <geekosaur> | https://www.reddit.com/r/haskellquestions/comments/a5abtz/how_do_you_set_the_license_type_in_a_new… claims the templates only support bsd3 |
| 2022-06-21 20:48:42 +0200 | <geekosaur> | you would have to make a new template including the apache2 license file; the -p entry only sets the license in the cabal file/package.yaml, I guess |
| 2022-06-21 20:48:56 +0200 | kmein | (~weechat@user/kmein) (Client Quit) |
| 2022-06-21 20:49:15 +0200 | kmein | (~weechat@user/kmein) |
| 2022-06-21 20:51:20 +0200 | bliminse | (~bliminse@host86-164-164-134.range86-164.btcentralplus.com) |
| 2022-06-21 20:53:05 +0200 | pleo | (~pleo@user/pleo) |
| 2022-06-21 20:54:46 +0200 | <BusConscious> | https://stackoverflow.com/questions/59421810/how-to-create-project-template-in-stack |
| 2022-06-21 20:54:53 +0200 | Teacup | (~teacup@user/teacup) (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.) |
| 2022-06-21 20:54:54 +0200 | <BusConscious> | would you do it somehow like that? |
| 2022-06-21 20:55:16 +0200 | money | (~Gambino@user/polo) (Quit: money) |
| 2022-06-21 20:55:58 +0200 | nate4 | (~nate@98.45.169.16) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-06-21 20:56:19 +0200 | Teacup | (~teacup@user/teacup) |
| 2022-06-21 20:57:39 +0200 | <geekosaur> | like that, yes. I can't give details because I don't use stack |
| 2022-06-21 20:58:34 +0200 | <BusConscious> | geekosaur: What do you use instead? cabal? |
| 2022-06-21 20:59:08 +0200 | <geekosaur> | yes |
| 2022-06-21 20:59:09 +0200 | <yushyin> | ghcup+cabal |
| 2022-06-21 20:59:17 +0200 | <geekosaur> | you'lll find many of the people in here do |
| 2022-06-21 20:59:22 +0200 | vysn | (~vysn@user/vysn) |
| 2022-06-21 20:59:31 +0200 | <geekosaur> | cabal had issues… 10 years ago |
| 2022-06-21 20:59:39 +0200 | money | (~Gambino@user/polo) |
| 2022-06-21 20:59:42 +0200 | <geekosaur> | it's not 10 years ago any more |
| 2022-06-21 21:00:16 +0200 | <geekosaur> | meanwhile there's some question as to how maintained stack is |
| 2022-06-21 21:00:22 +0200 | <yushyin> | still has _some_ issues ofc ;) |
| 2022-06-21 21:00:44 +0200 | <maerwald> | geekosaur: it is maintained |
| 2022-06-21 21:01:40 +0200 | <BusConscious> | To the extent that I've had to do with either of them it has been a terrible experience and I've not had much to do with it |
| 2022-06-21 21:02:12 +0200 | <geekosaur> | I didn't say it wasn't maintained, I said there's some question as to *how* maintained it is |
| 2022-06-21 21:02:41 +0200 | <maerwald> | https://github.com/commercialhaskell/stack/commits?author=mpilgrem |
| 2022-06-21 21:02:50 +0200 | <maerwald> | is basically the new maintainer |
| 2022-06-21 21:03:15 +0200 | <BusConscious> | I really like haskell so far, but the package managers have been by far the biggest annoyance to me. |
| 2022-06-21 21:08:58 +0200 | <BusConscious> | Copying the right LICENSE into your new project or at least not overwriting the correct one, should be the most basic thing right? And it can't even do that. |
| 2022-06-21 21:09:28 +0200 | liz_ | (~liz@cpc84585-newc17-2-0-cust60.16-2.cable.virginm.net) |
| 2022-06-21 21:09:50 +0200 | money | (~Gambino@user/polo) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2022-06-21 21:11:31 +0200 | <maerwald> | well, usability and ergonomics are hard |
| 2022-06-21 21:11:56 +0200 | <maerwald> | and programmers are obsessed with technicalities and features usually |
| 2022-06-21 21:12:30 +0200 | <[exa]> | BusConscious: stack is IMO a bit opinionated towards industry, there are people who like it like that |
| 2022-06-21 21:12:38 +0200 | mikoto-chan | (~mikoto-ch@esm-84-240-99-143.netplaza.fi) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-06-21 21:13:00 +0200 | <[exa]> | are there any reasons to recommend stack to beginners/newcomers nowadays? |
| 2022-06-21 21:13:15 +0200 | <maerwald> | [exa]: better cli interface |
| 2022-06-21 21:13:19 +0200 | <maerwald> | but not much else |
| 2022-06-21 21:14:10 +0200 | <maerwald> | there are more moving pieces than in cabal |
| 2022-06-21 21:14:42 +0200 | <[exa]> | like, I don't want to sound negative or anything but at all attempts I tried to do something with stack in the last ~3 years I failed and wasn't able to find explanations |
| 2022-06-21 21:15:04 +0200 | <maerwald> | that's why I usually think that stack is actually more interesting for (some) power users |
| 2022-06-21 21:15:10 +0200 | rkk | (~rkk@2601:547:b00:39bc:f8e9:8867:3298:9864) |
| 2022-06-21 21:15:28 +0200 | liz_ | liz |
| 2022-06-21 21:15:32 +0200 | <maerwald> | but then again... why would you opt into a tool that doesn't have a constraint solver |
| 2022-06-21 21:15:32 +0200 | <BusConscious> | funny I know someone who works with haskell professionally and swears by stack |
| 2022-06-21 21:15:54 +0200 | <EvanR> | stockholm syndrome? xD |
| 2022-06-21 21:16:00 +0200 | <BusConscious> | and that I should use it because it would be much better than cabal |
| 2022-06-21 21:16:19 +0200 | <maerwald> | stack removed half of cabals features and started over... so yeah, some parts are a bit more sane (like `stack install`) |
| 2022-06-21 21:16:34 +0200 | <maerwald> | but then you get only half of the things |
| 2022-06-21 21:17:09 +0200 | <[exa]> | BusConscious: yeah I know several such cases, but IMO it requires expecience or adherence to a model I don't understand |
| 2022-06-21 21:17:34 +0200 | <[exa]> | BusConscious: so I failed and now I'm happy with the defaultest cabal |
| 2022-06-21 21:17:49 +0200 | <[exa]> | not feeling any lost value or anything :D |
| 2022-06-21 21:18:01 +0200 | <BusConscious> | To stacks credit: I'm the person whose xmobar failed with a parse error because of alsamixer, when installed using cabal. stack somehow got the dependencies right there |
| 2022-06-21 21:18:32 +0200 | <BusConscious> | On the other hand stack failed miserably to install Data.Stack from hackage. It said it was installed, but just wasn't. |
| 2022-06-21 21:18:37 +0200 | <maerwald> | BusConscious: you mean the package had incorrect dependencies and *happened* to work with a specific stackage version? |
| 2022-06-21 21:18:40 +0200 | <BusConscious> | Awful all around |
| 2022-06-21 21:18:40 +0200 | <[exa]> | wow |
| 2022-06-21 21:18:42 +0200 | <maerwald> | That's an error by the developer |
| 2022-06-21 21:19:29 +0200 | <BusConscious> | maerwald apparently that's what happened I guess |
| 2022-06-21 21:21:08 +0200 | <maerwald> | so imo, both cabal and stack have their warts... the question today is: which one can we fix? |
| 2022-06-21 21:21:16 +0200 | <maerwald> | And the answer is: cabal only |
| 2022-06-21 21:21:46 +0200 | <BusConscious> | ok next try: cabal. Wish me luck |
| 2022-06-21 21:22:41 +0200 | <[exa]> | BusConscious: ghcup or manually? |
| 2022-06-21 21:22:46 +0200 | <[exa]> | (ghcup very recommended) |
| 2022-06-21 21:24:22 +0200 | <monochrom> | Please use ghcup. Please do not turn it into an XY problem plus chicken-egg and ask "how do I compile cabal from source, how do I compile ghc from source". (Answer: No.) |
| 2022-06-21 21:24:35 +0200 | raym | (~raym@user/raym) (Quit: leaving) |
| 2022-06-21 21:28:05 +0200 | <BusConscious> | ok looking into right now |
| 2022-06-21 21:28:56 +0200 | <maerwald> | BusConscious: cabal pre-release can import a stackage resolver btw |
| 2022-06-21 21:29:21 +0200 | <maerwald> | https://cabal.readthedocs.io/en/latest/cabal-project.html?highlight=import#conditionals-and-imports |
| 2022-06-21 21:29:22 +0200 | raym | (~raym@user/raym) |
| 2022-06-21 21:29:37 +0200 | <jneira[m]> | <maerwald> "https://github.com/commercialhas..." <- wow, prs with no reviews nor approvals, merged with red ci one minute after opening them, why does not he push directly to master? |
| 2022-06-21 21:29:44 +0200 | <maerwald> | you'd say in your cabal.project: `import: https://www.stackage.org/lts-18.26/cabal.config` |
| 2022-06-21 21:29:55 +0200 | <maerwald> | jneira[m]: :D |
| 2022-06-21 21:31:02 +0200 | <jneira[m]> | :-P |
| 2022-06-21 21:33:42 +0200 | danso | (~danso@danso.ca) (Quit: ZNC - https://znc.in) |
| 2022-06-21 21:35:11 +0200 | danso | (~danso@danso.ca) |
| 2022-06-21 21:36:15 +0200 | <sm> | great to see the stack prs being merged |
| 2022-06-21 21:36:45 +0200 | <maerwald> | sm: some of them |
| 2022-06-21 21:36:59 +0200 | <sm> | BusConscious: some of us love stack, you should simply try both and see which is best for you |
| 2022-06-21 21:37:02 +0200 | <maerwald> | but at this point... contributing is no fun |
| 2022-06-21 21:37:43 +0200 | littlebobeep | (~alMalsamo@gateway/tor-sasl/almalsamo) |
| 2022-06-21 21:44:21 +0200 | littlebobeep | (~alMalsamo@gateway/tor-sasl/almalsamo) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) |
| 2022-06-21 21:44:48 +0200 | <BusConscious> | sm: I tried stack first but overwriting my LICENSE is kind of a no no for me personally |
| 2022-06-21 21:45:05 +0200 | <BusConscious> | well it worked using cabal |
| 2022-06-21 21:45:36 +0200 | <BusConscious> | thank you for restoring my sanity |
| 2022-06-21 21:45:59 +0200 | <BusConscious> | I also installed ghcup beforehand, but I'm not sure what that did |
| 2022-06-21 21:46:16 +0200 | <sm> | i hear you.. for me that'd be insignificant compared to all the other things I need from a package manager/build tool |
| 2022-06-21 21:48:24 +0200 | <BusConscious> | I just used cabal init --interactive and then edited the defaults in kell.cabal . Very accessible. Didn't even have to lookup the online documentation to see how it works. |
| 2022-06-21 21:48:40 +0200 | <maerwald> | yes, less moving parts |
| 2022-06-21 21:48:42 +0200 | raehik | (~raehik@cpc95906-rdng25-2-0-cust156.15-3.cable.virginm.net) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 2022-06-21 21:50:20 +0200 | eggplantade | (~Eggplanta@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:9:59a4:5055:fd8c) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2022-06-21 21:52:21 +0200 | vysn | (~vysn@user/vysn) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) |
| 2022-06-21 21:58:54 +0200 | _ht | (~quassel@231-169-21-31.ftth.glasoperator.nl) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2022-06-21 22:01:51 +0200 | eggplantade | (~Eggplanta@108-201-191-115.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) |
| 2022-06-21 22:04:49 +0200 | kayvank | (~user@52-119-115-185.PUBLIC.monkeybrains.net) |
| 2022-06-21 22:05:42 +0200 | kayvank | (~user@52-119-115-185.PUBLIC.monkeybrains.net) (Client Quit) |
| 2022-06-21 22:10:12 +0200 | [itchyjunk] | (~itchyjunk@user/itchyjunk/x-7353470) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2022-06-21 22:10:29 +0200 | machinedgod | (~machinedg@66.244.246.252) |
| 2022-06-21 22:11:42 +0200 | [itchyjunk] | (~itchyjunk@user/itchyjunk/x-7353470) |
| 2022-06-21 22:12:17 +0200 | eggplantade | (~Eggplanta@108-201-191-115.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2022-06-21 22:13:13 +0200 | kayvank | (~user@52-119-115-185.PUBLIC.monkeybrains.net) |
| 2022-06-21 22:13:54 +0200 | n1essa | (~nessa@75-164-218-34.ptld.qwest.net) |
| 2022-06-21 22:18:03 +0200 | mastarija | (~mastarija@2a05:4f46:e02:8c00:ad1a:d57a:7d0b:dec) |
| 2022-06-21 22:19:11 +0200 | kayvank | (~user@52-119-115-185.PUBLIC.monkeybrains.net) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2022-06-21 22:19:39 +0200 | artemis | (~artemis@user/artemis) |
| 2022-06-21 22:19:48 +0200 | <mastarija> | Is there any type in base that is suited to storing raw binary data? Something akin to ByteString? Or should I just use a list of Word8? |
| 2022-06-21 22:20:37 +0200 | <geekosaur> | why limit yourself to base? ByteString comes with any ghc installation |
| 2022-06-21 22:20:53 +0200 | <mastarija> | Just exploring stuff |
| 2022-06-21 22:21:07 +0200 | <geekosaur> | but yes, if you must for some reason stick to base, [Word8] is probably the best you'll do. I wouldn't, though |
| 2022-06-21 22:21:17 +0200 | <mastarija> | :D |
| 2022-06-21 22:21:40 +0200 | eggplantade | (~Eggplanta@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:9:59a4:5055:fd8c) |
| 2022-06-21 22:21:42 +0200 | <geekosaur> | base is not "minimum needed to write programs", it's "minimum needed to interface to the runtime" |
| 2022-06-21 22:21:43 +0200 | <mastarija> | I remember seeing some weird primitive array type somewhere a while ago |
| 2022-06-21 22:21:51 +0200 | zeenk | (~zeenk@2a02:2f04:a301:3d00:39df:1c4b:8a55:48d3) |
| 2022-06-21 22:22:05 +0200 | <geekosaur> | there is ByteArray#, yes. that's what a ByteString is |
| 2022-06-21 22:22:13 +0200 | <dolio> | base has been pruned over the years, and had packages like bytestring broken off from it. |
| 2022-06-21 22:22:29 +0200 | <mastarija> | geekosaur, It's just a bit of fun. I'm trying to explore what base has to offer. |
| 2022-06-21 22:22:30 +0200 | <geekosaur> | working directly with primitive types is generally a recipe for misery, though |
| 2022-06-21 22:22:45 +0200 | artemis | (~artemis@user/artemis) () |
| 2022-06-21 22:23:14 +0200 | <mastarija> | Unless you want to learn how they work |
| 2022-06-21 22:23:24 +0200 | <dolio> | Something from the primitive or vector packages might be better, depending on what you're doing. |
| 2022-06-21 22:24:08 +0200 | <mastarija> | I'm just building something similar to aeson, but it's nothing serious. It's mostly a learning project. |
| 2022-06-21 22:24:16 +0200 | <EvanR> | if you like [Word8], maybe you'd like to try [Fin 256] so you don't even need primitive words xD |
| 2022-06-21 22:24:18 +0200 | ray | (~ray@213.205.241.248) |
| 2022-06-21 22:24:23 +0200 | <ray> | hello |
| 2022-06-21 22:24:27 +0200 | avpx_ | avpx |
| 2022-06-21 22:24:33 +0200 | <geekosaur> | hi |
| 2022-06-21 22:25:07 +0200 | <ray> | is there an easy way to generate random numbers at type level? |
| 2022-06-21 22:25:42 +0200 | coot | (~coot@213.134.190.95) (Quit: coot) |
| 2022-06-21 22:25:44 +0200 | <glguy> | no |
| 2022-06-21 22:25:46 +0200 | lyle | (~lyle@104.246.145.85) (Quit: WeeChat 3.5) |
| 2022-06-21 22:26:05 +0200 | <maerwald> | mastarija: ByteArray |
| 2022-06-21 22:26:06 +0200 | <ray> | are there list comprehensions or some other way of combining ranges? |
| 2022-06-21 22:26:21 +0200 | avpx | (~nick@ec2-54-214-223-1.us-west-2.compute.amazonaws.com) (Quit: ZNC 1.8.2 - https://znc.in) |
| 2022-06-21 22:26:37 +0200 | <mastarija> | maerwald, looking at it right now :) |
| 2022-06-21 22:26:38 +0200 | <maerwald> | mastarija: ShortByteString (also in bytestring package) is based on ByteArra |
| 2022-06-21 22:26:51 +0200 | <EvanR> | multiply with carry RNG involves multiplication in place value notation, which you could develop |
| 2022-06-21 22:26:56 +0200 | <EvanR> | at the type level |
| 2022-06-21 22:27:24 +0200 | <ray> | can you write it at value level? |
| 2022-06-21 22:27:31 +0200 | <EvanR> | well yeah that's easy |
| 2022-06-21 22:27:41 +0200 | <ray> | oh, idk the algorithm |
| 2022-06-21 22:27:42 +0200 | rkk | (~rkk@2601:547:b00:39bc:f8e9:8867:3298:9864) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 2022-06-21 22:28:15 +0200 | <EvanR> | what are you actually trying to do? xD |
| 2022-06-21 22:28:23 +0200 | <ray> | i thought there might be an easy way with primes and Ints |
| 2022-06-21 22:28:37 +0200 | <ray> | probably dont want to have to do type level primes... |
| 2022-06-21 22:28:50 +0200 | <ray> | EvanR: I want to index over these ranges |
| 2022-06-21 22:28:55 +0200 | <EvanR> | you have Nat at the type level not Int |
| 2022-06-21 22:29:04 +0200 | <ray> | sure |
| 2022-06-21 22:29:15 +0200 | <ray> | basically to generate random terms |
| 2022-06-21 22:29:22 +0200 | <ray> | types of* |
| 2022-06-21 22:29:31 +0200 | <EvanR> | wait what are you actually trying to do? |
| 2022-06-21 22:29:44 +0200 | <ray> | i have a datatype where the contents are evaluated differently depending on a type annotation |
| 2022-06-21 22:29:58 +0200 | <ray> | and i want to generate these randomly |
| 2022-06-21 22:30:16 +0200 | <monochrom> | Just add a type-level Bool to get type-level integers, complete with "negative zero". |
| 2022-06-21 22:30:18 +0200 | <ray> | at value level i would combine ranges in list comprehensions |
| 2022-06-21 22:30:47 +0200 | <ray> | with as many generators as contributing subterms |
| 2022-06-21 22:31:33 +0200 | <ray> | so i would end up with vectors of types, and i want to index over these randomly to select a random type for a term |
| 2022-06-21 22:32:29 +0200 | <ray> | so i actually need arbitrarily many generators at type level... |
| 2022-06-21 22:32:37 +0200 | pretty_dumm_guy | (trottel@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/prettydummguy/x-88029655) (Quit: WeeChat 3.5) |
| 2022-06-21 22:32:46 +0200 | [_] | (~itchyjunk@user/itchyjunk/x-7353470) |
| 2022-06-21 22:33:15 +0200 | <n1essa> | Hi y'all, I'm trying to learn how to use wreq based on their own tutorial. I've had zero issue making requests, but the lens part is really tripping me up. I would really appreciate some pointers on this. https://paste.tomsmeding.com/xxUEch00 |
| 2022-06-21 22:33:17 +0200 | money | (~Gambino@user/polo) |
| 2022-06-21 22:33:40 +0200 | [itchyjunk] | (~itchyjunk@user/itchyjunk/x-7353470) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) |
| 2022-06-21 22:34:18 +0200 | machinedgod | (~machinedg@66.244.246.252) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 2022-06-21 22:34:18 +0200 | [_] | [itchyjunk] |
| 2022-06-21 22:35:46 +0200 | machinedgod | (~machinedg@66.244.246.252) |
| 2022-06-21 22:36:11 +0200 | <ray> | something to do with ranges and ordering... |
| 2022-06-21 22:37:00 +0200 | mastarija | (~mastarija@2a05:4f46:e02:8c00:ad1a:d57a:7d0b:dec) (Quit: Leaving) |
| 2022-06-21 22:37:18 +0200 | pleo | (~pleo@user/pleo) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-06-21 22:38:14 +0200 | finsternis | (~X@23.226.237.192) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2022-06-21 22:38:28 +0200 | odnes | (~odnes@5-203-249-68.pat.nym.cosmote.net) |
| 2022-06-21 22:38:42 +0200 | pleo | (~pleo@user/pleo) |
| 2022-06-21 22:38:43 +0200 | <ray> | i think i might be able to do the ranges with a recursive type family directly |
| 2022-06-21 22:39:24 +0200 | <ray> | and then make a way to consume a Nat to index over this to retrive the desired type |
| 2022-06-21 22:39:25 +0200 | <glguy> | n1essa: to index a Map you wouldn't use aeson lenses, you'd use the stuff just in the lens library |
| 2022-06-21 22:39:32 +0200 | <ray> | and i just need the type level RNG |
| 2022-06-21 22:39:32 +0200 | <glguy> | so `at` and `ix` |
| 2022-06-21 22:40:31 +0200 | <ray> | EvanR: what did your way entail, folding? |
| 2022-06-21 22:40:32 +0200 | <glguy> | n1essa: so try replacing that last line with: print (r ^. responseBody . at "list") |
| 2022-06-21 22:40:33 +0200 | quarkyalice | (~quarkyali@user/quarkyalice) |
| 2022-06-21 22:40:57 +0200 | <n1essa> | glguy: thanks, I'll try those, is the tutorial (http://www.serpentine.com/wreq/tutorial.html) just wrong? or am I just confused? because it's using `key` |
| 2022-06-21 22:41:34 +0200 | money | (~Gambino@user/polo) (Quit: money) |
| 2022-06-21 22:41:42 +0200 | jmdaemon | (~jmdaemon@user/jmdaemon) |
| 2022-06-21 22:41:57 +0200 | <glguy> | n1essa: your code just isn't the same as the tutorial |
| 2022-06-21 22:42:23 +0200 | <EvanR> | ray, look up MWC random generator on e.g. wikipedia |
| 2022-06-21 22:42:23 +0200 | <n1essa> | that's true, I thought I was following the same pattern though |
| 2022-06-21 22:42:50 +0200 | <glguy> | n1essa: your version removes a layer of JSON with `asJSON` that the other tutorial fragments don't |
| 2022-06-21 22:42:58 +0200 | pleo | (~pleo@user/pleo) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-06-21 22:43:31 +0200 | <ray> | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiply-with-carry_pseudorandom_number_generator |
| 2022-06-21 22:43:37 +0200 | <glguy> | n1essa: notice that the examples using `key` don't also use `asJSON` |
| 2022-06-21 22:43:50 +0200 | <n1essa> | oh |
| 2022-06-21 22:43:57 +0200 | <n1essa> | that might be the part i was missing |
| 2022-06-21 22:44:07 +0200 | <ray> | i guess i could just write in the prime since the nats use 123.etc chars |
| 2022-06-21 22:44:24 +0200 | pleo | (~pleo@user/pleo) |
| 2022-06-21 22:45:05 +0200 | <ray> | the article describes it in a complicated way though, talking about multiplication with implicit word shifts |
| 2022-06-21 22:45:18 +0200 | <ray> | implicit multiplication with word shifts* |
| 2022-06-21 22:45:42 +0200 | <ray> | its a memory address style im not sured to |
| 2022-06-21 22:45:59 +0200 | <EvanR> | I suggested it for simplicity of concept and not for their machine implementation which is irrelevant to doing it at type level |
| 2022-06-21 22:46:13 +0200 | <ray> | ok, so its just the recursion formula |
| 2022-06-21 22:46:29 +0200 | <EvanR> | it's a multiplication, take the carry |
| 2022-06-21 22:46:37 +0200 | machinedgod | (~machinedg@66.244.246.252) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) |
| 2022-06-21 22:46:44 +0200 | avpx | (~nick@ec2-54-214-223-1.us-west-2.compute.amazonaws.com) |
| 2022-06-21 22:46:56 +0200 | <ray> | x_n=bx_{n-1}mod p |
| 2022-06-21 22:47:18 +0200 | <EvanR> | mod and carry is automatic if you use place-value representation |
| 2022-06-21 22:47:19 +0200 | <ray> | sure so fold with basecase 1 |
| 2022-06-21 22:47:36 +0200 | <EvanR> | it would be really slow otherwise |
| 2022-06-21 22:47:44 +0200 | <EvanR> | and you'd have to implement division |
| 2022-06-21 22:47:47 +0200 | <ray> | erg, is that something i care about? |
| 2022-06-21 22:47:54 +0200 | <ray> | div |
| 2022-06-21 22:48:04 +0200 | <ray> | i mean care about it being slow at type level |
| 2022-06-21 22:48:21 +0200 | <EvanR> | in place-value multiplication you get carrying and remainder automatically |
| 2022-06-21 22:48:23 +0200 | <n1essa> | glguy: Thank you :) I got it working with your help |
| 2022-06-21 22:48:30 +0200 | <EvanR> | no division |
| 2022-06-21 22:48:42 +0200 | <ray> | hmm, maybe that *would* be a better way to implement it |
| 2022-06-21 22:48:50 +0200 | pleo | (~pleo@user/pleo) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-06-21 22:48:52 +0200 | <ray> | but it sounds complicated to do at type level |
| 2022-06-21 22:49:05 +0200 | <EvanR> | no shit xD |
| 2022-06-21 22:49:20 +0200 | <ray> | a div implementation sounds more feasible |
| 2022-06-21 22:49:45 +0200 | <ray> | is there nothing in libraries for this? |
| 2022-06-21 22:50:07 +0200 | pleo | (~pleo@user/pleo) |
| 2022-06-21 22:50:26 +0200 | nate4 | (~nate@98.45.169.16) |
| 2022-06-21 22:50:36 +0200 | <[exa]> | ray: people generally want to avoid numerical algorithms that can trigger undecidability or long enumeration at type level |
| 2022-06-21 22:50:51 +0200 | <ray> | the terms are bounded ranges |
| 2022-06-21 22:51:06 +0200 | <ray> | if that makes sense, should be decidable |
| 2022-06-21 22:51:08 +0200 | <EvanR> | yeah these algorithms terminate |
| 2022-06-21 22:51:32 +0200 | <EvanR> | so you can do a theoretically do the research project to do it at type level xD |
| 2022-06-21 22:51:43 +0200 | <EvanR> | s/do a// |
| 2022-06-21 22:52:00 +0200 | <ray> | and doing all the kind of assignment at type level is a good way to have the architectures fixed to ensure no computation is done faffing around with the shape of things at runtime |
| 2022-06-21 22:52:22 +0200 | <EvanR> | why even have runtime!? |
| 2022-06-21 22:52:38 +0200 | <ray> | for realtime data throughput among other things |
| 2022-06-21 22:52:43 +0200 | lagash | (lagash@lagash.shelltalk.net) (Quit: ZNC - https://znc.in) |
| 2022-06-21 22:52:47 +0200 | <[exa]> | ray: anyway there's afaik a pretty good typelevel number library |
| 2022-06-21 22:53:08 +0200 | <ray> | but all this, eg, doing computations to ensure things have matching sizes when used as inputs |
| 2022-06-21 22:53:24 +0200 | <[exa]> | ray: just be prepared that it will be able to prove types of much less things than you imagine now |
| 2022-06-21 22:53:41 +0200 | <ray> | i need to do the shapes properly at type level of how all the parameters in a massive complicated net are placed |
| 2022-06-21 22:54:07 +0200 | <[exa]> | ray: e.g. here https://hackage.haskell.org/package/base-4.16.1.0/docs/GHC-TypeNats.html#t:Div |
| 2022-06-21 22:54:08 +0200 | <EvanR> | when you go beyond adding two numbers together, the number theory gets harsh fast |
| 2022-06-21 22:54:30 +0200 | pleo | (~pleo@user/pleo) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-06-21 22:54:42 +0200 | <ray> | [exa]: thanks, turned out not to be too much of a crux |
| 2022-06-21 22:55:09 +0200 | Tuplanolla | (~Tuplanoll@91-159-69-97.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 2022-06-21 22:55:16 +0200 | lagash | (lagash@lagash.shelltalk.net) |
| 2022-06-21 22:55:17 +0200 | <[exa]> | ray: like, I don't want to sound discouraging, just remember that many people tried and failed hard :D |
| 2022-06-21 22:55:22 +0200 | rito_ | (~rito_gh@45.112.243.199) |
| 2022-06-21 22:55:25 +0200 | <ray> | I was hoping for some more principled approach to ranges though |
| 2022-06-21 22:55:27 +0200 | ritogh | (~rito_gh@45.112.243.199) |
| 2022-06-21 22:55:38 +0200 | <[exa]> | ranges as in intervals? |
| 2022-06-21 22:55:45 +0200 | <ray> | enum |
| 2022-06-21 22:55:48 +0200 | pleo | (~pleo@user/pleo) |
| 2022-06-21 22:55:53 +0200 | <ray> | for generators in list comprehensions |
| 2022-06-21 22:55:55 +0200 | <EvanR> | Fin ? |
| 2022-06-21 22:56:17 +0200 | <EvanR> | Fin n, the allowed numbers are zero to n-1 |
| 2022-06-21 22:56:22 +0200 | <[exa]> | ray: any example use? |
| 2022-06-21 22:56:28 +0200 | <EvanR> | there's a library for that at least |
| 2022-06-21 22:56:42 +0200 | <ray> | no, these are like, datatypes with several constructors, with a corresponding sum type indicating which was used, more like singletons |
| 2022-06-21 22:56:44 +0200 | ritogh | (~rito_gh@45.112.243.199) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2022-06-21 22:57:03 +0200 | <ray> | youd need to define a range instance i guess |
| 2022-06-21 22:57:29 +0200 | <ray> | and more like, how ranges can be combined |
| 2022-06-21 22:57:51 +0200 | <[exa]> | ray: so ranges as in indexing arrays and matrices with strides? |
| 2022-06-21 22:57:57 +0200 | <ray> | \xs -> [[a,b,c...]|a<-xs,b<-xs,c<-xs ..] |
| 2022-06-21 22:58:59 +0200 | <ray> | eg i could make a sequence of SBools this way, and have some notional binary tree with Nat indexing according to the polsition in the range generated list |
| 2022-06-21 22:59:08 +0200 | <ray> | so its gives an ordering to the vector term |
| 2022-06-21 22:59:47 +0200 | <ray> | ah right, thats why you dont want any row to go to infinity, because the ordering would be useless |
| 2022-06-21 23:00:16 +0200 | <[exa]> | well not really but you'd need to start from the other side, which would turn isomorphic to integers |
| 2022-06-21 23:00:39 +0200 | <[exa]> | certainly useful as an exercise™ |
| 2022-06-21 23:01:06 +0200 | <ray> | i mean like how simpler terms, vectors with fewer contributions, would appear first in the ordering |
| 2022-06-21 23:01:32 +0200 | <ray> | which only works because the indexed datatypes have finite range |
| 2022-06-21 23:01:41 +0200 | dextaa | (~DV@user/dextaa) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2022-06-21 23:02:44 +0200 | <ray> | i guess the RNG is then looking up over a correspondence from lists of bools to the Nats |
| 2022-06-21 23:03:54 +0200 | dextaa | (~DV@user/dextaa) |
| 2022-06-21 23:03:56 +0200 | <ray> | basically because i dont want to have to write the term, i want to index them with an Int, so then the RNG can pick |
| 2022-06-21 23:04:04 +0200 | <ray> | the type* |
| 2022-06-21 23:04:09 +0200 | dextaa | (~DV@user/dextaa) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2022-06-21 23:04:10 +0200 | <EvanR> | also "why do I care if it's slow at the type level", because of development turnaround time in the edit compile test loop |
| 2022-06-21 23:04:41 +0200 | <ray> | for this reason i would consider eg. not cryptographically secure RNGs |
| 2022-06-21 23:05:05 +0200 | <EvanR> | have you considered generating random type level Nats using template haskell |
| 2022-06-21 23:05:06 +0200 | eggplantade | (~Eggplanta@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:9:59a4:5055:fd8c) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2022-06-21 23:05:09 +0200 | <ray> | like, the "statistical randomness" isnt actually all that important, as long as it approaches uniform |
| 2022-06-21 23:05:27 +0200 | <ray> | EvanR: I actually have never used TH |
| 2022-06-21 23:05:42 +0200 | <ray> | but i like the idea, you mean i could reflect them up from a value level computation somehow? |
| 2022-06-21 23:05:53 +0200 | money | (~Gambino@user/polo) |
| 2022-06-21 23:06:21 +0200 | <ray> | but i see what you mean, it seems like a TH usecase to generate random choices of type annotations |
| 2022-06-21 23:06:27 +0200 | dextaa | (~DV@user/dextaa) |
| 2022-06-21 23:06:40 +0200 | <EvanR> | yes type level nats can become values of the same... value |
| 2022-06-21 23:06:53 +0200 | <ray> | hmm |
| 2022-06-21 23:06:53 +0200 | dextaa | (~DV@user/dextaa) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2022-06-21 23:07:09 +0200 | money | (~Gambino@user/polo) (Client Quit) |
| 2022-06-21 23:07:19 +0200 | <ray> | idk how TH works, so... |
| 2022-06-21 23:07:31 +0200 | <BusConscious> | Could not find module 'Prelude' There are files missing in the 'base-4.15.1.0' package. |
| 2022-06-21 23:07:40 +0200 | <ray> | arch? |
| 2022-06-21 23:07:46 +0200 | <BusConscious> | what's up with that? |
| 2022-06-21 23:07:50 +0200 | <BusConscious> | ray: yupp |
| 2022-06-21 23:07:54 +0200 | <maerwald> | LOL |
| 2022-06-21 23:07:55 +0200 | <EvanR> | TH works very well |
| 2022-06-21 23:08:00 +0200 | <ray> | no good support for ghcup |
| 2022-06-21 23:08:06 +0200 | <BusConscious> | tried to test my cabal build on my arch laptop |
| 2022-06-21 23:08:08 +0200 | <maerwald> | ray: what? |
| 2022-06-21 23:08:10 +0200 | <ray> | installing in all wrong directories |
| 2022-06-21 23:08:24 +0200 | <ray> | maerwald: arch build issues |
| 2022-06-21 23:08:33 +0200 | <ray> | using their local package repo |
| 2022-06-21 23:08:39 +0200 | <maerwald> | that's not a ghcup issue... they're just using the wrong GHC |
| 2022-06-21 23:08:45 +0200 | <maerwald> | the one installed from arch crap repos |
| 2022-06-21 23:08:55 +0200 | <ray> | yeah, i mean, thats because ghcup wasnt working i presume |
| 2022-06-21 23:09:03 +0200 | <maerwald> | why would it not? |
| 2022-06-21 23:09:04 +0200 | azimut | (~azimut@gateway/tor-sasl/azimut) (Write error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2022-06-21 23:09:04 +0200 | ChaiTRex | (~ChaiTRex@user/chaitrex) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2022-06-21 23:09:04 +0200 | winny | (~weechat@user/winny) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2022-06-21 23:09:08 +0200 | dextaa | (~DV@user/dextaa) |
| 2022-06-21 23:09:17 +0200 | <ray> | arch folds run from 3rd part package managers for some reson which is special to arch i think |
| 2022-06-21 23:09:28 +0200 | dextaa | (~DV@user/dextaa) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2022-06-21 23:09:40 +0200 | <ray> | BusConscious: anything like this? |
| 2022-06-21 23:09:50 +0200 | stiell | (~stiell@gateway/tor-sasl/stiell) |
| 2022-06-21 23:10:05 +0200 | azimut | (~azimut@gateway/tor-sasl/azimut) |
| 2022-06-21 23:10:07 +0200 | <ray> | iv never seen prelude unable to locate where base was installed before except on arch is all |
| 2022-06-21 23:10:13 +0200 | kenaryn | (~aurele@89-88-44-27.abo.bbox.fr) (Quit: leaving) |
| 2022-06-21 23:10:32 +0200 | <ray> | is it yumm or sumething you use? |
| 2022-06-21 23:10:42 +0200 | <BusConscious> | I uninstalled ghc with pacman |
| 2022-06-21 23:10:51 +0200 | <BusConscious> | and now I'm running ghcup again |
| 2022-06-21 23:10:57 +0200 | <ray> | its like some apt-get thingy which does it all wrong, which is why i dont understand arch |
| 2022-06-21 23:10:58 +0200 | <BusConscious> | but I did run ghcup before |
| 2022-06-21 23:11:30 +0200 | <ray> | probably there is a huge mess and you should burn your machine and use dell |
| 2022-06-21 23:11:37 +0200 | jargon | (~jargon@184.101.186.108) |
| 2022-06-21 23:11:42 +0200 | dextaa | (~DV@user/dextaa) |
| 2022-06-21 23:11:45 +0200 | <maerwald> | lol |
| 2022-06-21 23:11:46 +0200 | ChaiTRex | (~ChaiTRex@user/chaitrex) |
| 2022-06-21 23:11:47 +0200 | <geekosaur> | with arch you have to run ghc with -shared or it'll look for and fail to find the static libraries |
| 2022-06-21 23:12:24 +0200 | <ray> | this kind of thing^, arch is torture |
| 2022-06-21 23:12:32 +0200 | <geekosaur> | or remove all pacman-installed haskell packages and start over with ghcup (don't forget to source its env file immediately after setting ghcup up) |
| 2022-06-21 23:12:50 +0200 | <BusConscious> | geekosaur: This is what I'm doing rn |
| 2022-06-21 23:13:36 +0200 | <ray> | its a cabal issue no? |
| 2022-06-21 23:13:54 +0200 | <ray> | i mean, ghci works, but you just cant install any packages because they cant find base or anything else i guess |
| 2022-06-21 23:14:06 +0200 | dextaa | (~DV@user/dextaa) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2022-06-21 23:14:21 +0200 | winny | (~weechat@user/winny) |
| 2022-06-21 23:14:34 +0200 | <BusConscious> | should I run ghcup script with sudo? |
| 2022-06-21 23:14:38 +0200 | <yushyin> | no |
| 2022-06-21 23:14:38 +0200 | <maerwald> | BusConscious: no |
| 2022-06-21 23:15:10 +0200 | mikoto-chan | (~mikoto-ch@esm-84-240-99-143.netplaza.fi) |
| 2022-06-21 23:15:26 +0200 | kritzefitz | (~kritzefit@debian/kritzefitz) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2022-06-21 23:15:55 +0200 | <n1essa> | Is there a more reasonable way to write this `fmap (fmap (T.pack)) <$> sequence <$> mapM (lookupEnv) env` |
| 2022-06-21 23:15:59 +0200 | kritzefitz | (~kritzefit@debian/kritzefitz) |
| 2022-06-21 23:16:03 +0200 | <BusConscious> | ah here we go |
| 2022-06-21 23:16:19 +0200 | dextaa | (~DV@user/dextaa) |
| 2022-06-21 23:18:06 +0200 | <BusConscious> | I just had to restart the terminal |
| 2022-06-21 23:18:40 +0200 | mikoto-chan | (~mikoto-ch@esm-84-240-99-143.netplaza.fi) (Client Quit) |
| 2022-06-21 23:19:30 +0200 | <ray> | lol |
| 2022-06-21 23:20:12 +0200 | winny | (~weechat@user/winny) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2022-06-21 23:20:40 +0200 | winny | (~weechat@user/winny) |
| 2022-06-21 23:22:38 +0200 | renzhi | (~xp@2607:fa49:6500:b100::f64a) |
| 2022-06-21 23:24:55 +0200 | qhong_ | (~qhong@rescomp-21-400677.stanford.edu) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 2022-06-21 23:26:55 +0200 | machinedgod | (~machinedg@66.244.246.252) |
| 2022-06-21 23:27:42 +0200 | <ray> | n1essa: well it doesnt matter if you fmap before or after the sequence |
| 2022-06-21 23:28:15 +0200 | <ray> | so you could factor it into mapM |
| 2022-06-21 23:28:18 +0200 | quarkyalice | (~quarkyali@user/quarkyalice) (Quit: quarkyalice) |
| 2022-06-21 23:28:39 +0200 | winny | (~weechat@user/winny) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2022-06-21 23:29:07 +0200 | winny | (~weechat@user/winny) |
| 2022-06-21 23:30:32 +0200 | <ray> | so lets say iv made a range class and instantiated it for some datatype so i can make a list of its possible type annotations |
| 2022-06-21 23:30:49 +0200 | rkk | (~rkk@2601:547:b00:39bc:f8e9:8867:3298:9864) |
| 2022-06-21 23:31:10 +0200 | <dsal> | :t sequence . traverse |
| 2022-06-21 23:31:11 +0200 | <ray> | now i want to take this list and make a branching thing of which choice was made for each element in the list, basically generating vecors with multiple generators from the same range |
| 2022-06-21 23:31:12 +0200 | <lambdabot> | (Monad m, Traversable t, Traversable ((->) (t a))) => (a -> m b) -> m (t a -> t b) |
| 2022-06-21 23:32:10 +0200 | <ray> | :t (sequence .) . traverse |
| 2022-06-21 23:32:11 +0200 | <lambdabot> | (Monad m, Traversable t, Traversable m, Applicative t) => (a1 -> t a2) -> m a1 -> m (t a2) |
| 2022-06-21 23:34:03 +0200 | <ray> | how do i do this multiple generators problem? |
| 2022-06-21 23:34:14 +0200 | <ray> | ie to mimic what can be done with list comprehensions |
| 2022-06-21 23:34:18 +0200 | rkk | (~rkk@2601:547:b00:39bc:f8e9:8867:3298:9864) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2022-06-21 23:35:43 +0200 | <ray> | > let xs = [True,False] in [[x,y,z]|x<-xs,y<-xs,z<-xs] |
| 2022-06-21 23:35:44 +0200 | <lambdabot> | [[True,True,True],[True,True,False],[True,False,True],[True,False,False],[Fa... |
| 2022-06-21 23:36:17 +0200 | <n1essa> | ray: thanks, i'll try that |
| 2022-06-21 23:36:45 +0200 | <ray> | no pRoblem |
| 2022-06-21 23:39:00 +0200 | gmg | (~user@user/gehmehgeh) (Quit: Leaving) |
| 2022-06-21 23:40:36 +0200 | pretty_dumm_guy | (trottel@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/prettydummguy/x-88029655) |
| 2022-06-21 23:41:45 +0200 | z0k | (~z0k@206.84.141.12) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 2022-06-21 23:41:54 +0200 | jargon | (~jargon@184.101.186.108) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2022-06-21 23:42:00 +0200 | money | (~Gambino@user/polo) |
| 2022-06-21 23:43:28 +0200 | <dsal> | > replicateM 3 [True, False] |
| 2022-06-21 23:43:30 +0200 | <lambdabot> | [[True,True,True],[True,True,False],[True,False,True],[True,False,False],[Fa... |
| 2022-06-21 23:45:04 +0200 | ray | (~ray@213.205.241.248) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2022-06-21 23:45:09 +0200 | quarkyalice | (~quarkyali@user/quarkyalice) |
| 2022-06-21 23:45:18 +0200 | Moyst_ | (~moyst@user/moyst) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 2022-06-21 23:45:52 +0200 | eggplantade | (~Eggplanta@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:9:59a4:5055:fd8c) |
| 2022-06-21 23:47:34 +0200 | <dsal> | @undo [[x,y,z]|x<-xs,y<-xs,z<-xs] |
| 2022-06-21 23:47:34 +0200 | <lambdabot> | concatMap (\ x -> concatMap (\ y -> concatMap (\ z -> [[x, y, z]]) xs) xs) xs |
| 2022-06-21 23:49:51 +0200 | nate4 | (~nate@98.45.169.16) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 2022-06-21 23:50:04 +0200 | winny | (~weechat@user/winny) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2022-06-21 23:50:45 +0200 | machinedgod | (~machinedg@66.244.246.252) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) |
| 2022-06-21 23:52:14 +0200 | machinedgod | (~machinedg@66.244.246.252) |
| 2022-06-21 23:52:18 +0200 | money | (~Gambino@user/polo) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 2022-06-21 23:52:51 +0200 | Moyst_ | (~moyst@user/moyst) |
| 2022-06-21 23:58:10 +0200 | califax | (~califax@user/califx) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) |
| 2022-06-21 23:58:22 +0200 | califax_ | (~califax@user/califx) |
| 2022-06-21 23:59:32 +0200 | califax_ | califax |