| 2022-06-07 00:00:22 +0200 | coot | (~coot@213.134.190.95) (Quit: coot) |
| 2022-06-07 00:01:10 +0200 | toluene | (~toluene@user/toulene) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) |
| 2022-06-07 00:01:56 +0200 | __monty__ | (~toonn@user/toonn) (Quit: leaving) |
| 2022-06-07 00:04:20 +0200 | wonko | (~wjc@user/wonko) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) |
| 2022-06-07 00:05:00 +0200 | ente | (~daemon@inferno.barfooze.de) |
| 2022-06-07 00:09:25 +0200 | ente | (~daemon@inferno.barfooze.de) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2022-06-07 00:09:34 +0200 | littlebobeep | (~alMalsamo@gateway/tor-sasl/almalsamo) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-06-07 00:22:12 +0200 | slack1256 | (~slack1256@191.125.227.95) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2022-06-07 00:22:17 +0200 | gehmehgeh | (~user@user/gehmehgeh) (Quit: Leaving) |
| 2022-06-07 00:23:21 +0200 | toluene | (~toluene@user/toulene) |
| 2022-06-07 00:23:57 +0200 | <Bulby[m]> | is there a way to just update my cabal file from package.yaml instead of running stack build |
| 2022-06-07 00:24:35 +0200 | <geekosaur> | that part of what stack does is actually done by hpack |
| 2022-06-07 00:24:48 +0200 | zeenk | (~zeenk@2a02:2f04:a013:9000:e45d:7fb3:ec71:e806) |
| 2022-06-07 00:24:53 +0200 | <Bulby[m]> | i'm aware. how can I use hpack |
| 2022-06-07 00:25:12 +0200 | <Bulby[m]> | does stack install it on my path? |
| 2022-06-07 00:25:54 +0200 | <sclv> | no stack uses it as a lib, you need to install the executable yourself |
| 2022-06-07 00:30:59 +0200 | dsrt^ | (~dsrt@c-24-131-46-83.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) |
| 2022-06-07 00:37:47 +0200 | abhixec | (~abhixec@c-67-169-139-16.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2022-06-07 00:37:57 +0200 | nate3 | (~nate@98.45.169.16) |
| 2022-06-07 00:38:31 +0200 | abhixec | (~abhixec@c-67-169-139-16.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 2022-06-07 00:41:58 +0200 | winny | (~weechat@user/winny) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2022-06-07 00:42:47 +0200 | nate3 | (~nate@98.45.169.16) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
| 2022-06-07 00:42:50 +0200 | winny | (~weechat@user/winny) |
| 2022-06-07 00:46:08 +0200 | [itchyjunk] | (~itchyjunk@user/itchyjunk/x-7353470) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) |
| 2022-06-07 00:53:03 +0200 | Alleria_ | (~AllahuAkb@DN2lk432a.stanford.edu) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) |
| 2022-06-07 00:53:49 +0200 | ente | (~daemon@inferno.barfooze.de) |
| 2022-06-07 00:57:05 +0200 | [itchyjunk] | (~itchyjunk@user/itchyjunk/x-7353470) |
| 2022-06-07 01:05:47 +0200 | Ranhir | (~Ranhir@157.97.53.139) (Quit: KVIrc 5.0.0 Aria http://www.kvirc.net/) |
| 2022-06-07 01:05:58 +0200 | littlebobeep | (~alMalsamo@gateway/tor-sasl/almalsamo) |
| 2022-06-07 01:10:23 +0200 | AlexNoo_ | (~AlexNoo@178.34.150.134) |
| 2022-06-07 01:11:24 +0200 | Alex_test | (~al_test@94.233.240.1) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
| 2022-06-07 01:11:55 +0200 | AlexZenon | (~alzenon@94.233.240.1) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
| 2022-06-07 01:12:25 +0200 | AlexNoo | (~AlexNoo@94.233.240.1) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2022-06-07 01:13:50 +0200 | dsrt^ | (~dsrt@c-24-131-46-83.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
| 2022-06-07 01:15:13 +0200 | Alleria_ | (~AllahuAkb@68.65.161.35) |
| 2022-06-07 01:15:32 +0200 | Alex_test | (~al_test@178.34.150.134) |
| 2022-06-07 01:16:11 +0200 | pavonia | (~user@user/siracusa) |
| 2022-06-07 01:16:48 +0200 | AlexZenon | (~alzenon@178.34.150.134) |
| 2022-06-07 01:18:04 +0200 | littlebobeep | (~alMalsamo@gateway/tor-sasl/almalsamo) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-06-07 01:19:30 +0200 | Pickchea | (~private@user/pickchea) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-06-07 01:20:58 +0200 | unit73e | (~emanuel@2001:818:e8dd:7c00:32b5:c2ff:fe6b:5291) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) |
| 2022-06-07 01:21:03 +0200 | littlebobeep | (~alMalsamo@gateway/tor-sasl/almalsamo) |
| 2022-06-07 01:25:36 +0200 | jmcarthur | (~jmcarthur@c-73-29-224-10.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) |
| 2022-06-07 01:29:29 +0200 | <Bulby[m]> | how do field selectors work in sum types? |
| 2022-06-07 01:30:36 +0200 | <EvanR> | not great. If you access the wrong sum alternative, it crashes |
| 2022-06-07 01:30:47 +0200 | <Bulby[m]> | that's what I figured |
| 2022-06-07 01:30:57 +0200 | <EvanR> | a Prism is better here |
| 2022-06-07 01:31:12 +0200 | <Bulby[m]> | adding lens to polysemy |
| 2022-06-07 01:31:26 +0200 | <EvanR> | they seem mainly orthogonal? |
| 2022-06-07 01:31:51 +0200 | <Bulby[m]> | orthogonal means unrelated right |
| 2022-06-07 01:33:05 +0200 | dsrt^ | (~dsrt@c-24-131-46-83.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) |
| 2022-06-07 01:34:17 +0200 | <EvanR> | sorry I went down a rabbit hole trying to actually explain linear algebra |
| 2022-06-07 01:34:58 +0200 | <EvanR> | I mean it seems like they do different things so can be used together without colliding |
| 2022-06-07 01:36:16 +0200 | <Bulby[m]> | i know how lines work 😄 |
| 2022-06-07 01:36:50 +0200 | <Bulby[m]> | i think so at least |
| 2022-06-07 01:39:30 +0200 | <Bulby[m]> | why do libs like lens come batteries included? |
| 2022-06-07 01:43:02 +0200 | <EvanR> | there's another lib like lens? xD |
| 2022-06-07 01:43:15 +0200 | <EvanR> | k there's optics, but it seems more manageable |
| 2022-06-07 01:43:28 +0200 | <Bulby[m]> | for utility libs i mean |
| 2022-06-07 01:43:33 +0200 | <jackdk> | lens only seems to provide stuff for things that are GHC boot libs? |
| 2022-06-07 01:43:51 +0200 | <Bulby[m]> | mtl is a GHC boot lib? |
| 2022-06-07 01:44:14 +0200 | <dsal> | microlens is a smaller lens |
| 2022-06-07 01:44:43 +0200 | <jackdk> | https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/wikis/commentary/libraries/version-history apparently so |
| 2022-06-07 01:45:43 +0200 | <Bulby[m]> | what does it mean to be a boot lib |
| 2022-06-07 01:46:03 +0200 | <DigitalKiwi> | why is batteries included a bad thing |
| 2022-06-07 01:46:20 +0200 | <Bulby[m]> | idk, I back down from my point |
| 2022-06-07 01:46:45 +0200 | <EvanR> | in this case, if mtl is a battery, and you're sleep breathing polysemy, then it's the wrong batteries |
| 2022-06-07 01:46:58 +0200 | <DigitalKiwi> | the thing about "without batteries" is that it doesn't work without batteries lol |
| 2022-06-07 01:47:03 +0200 | <Bulby[m]> | yeah |
| 2022-06-07 01:47:27 +0200 | <Bulby[m]> | i think that's what I mean - but polysemy zoo has a "constraint absorber" for monadstate and friends |
| 2022-06-07 01:47:34 +0200 | <jackdk> | microlens is "lens, but only depends on types from `base`" IIRC. However, to write `Fold`s, you need contravariant functors, and to write `Iso`s you need `Profunctor`, and to write `Prism`, you need `Choice` (also from `profunctors`) |
| 2022-06-07 01:47:44 +0200 | <jackdk> | so that's the tradeoff |
| 2022-06-07 01:47:52 +0200 | <DigitalKiwi> | getting everyone knew toys for christmas no batteries included ;p |
| 2022-06-07 01:47:58 +0200 | <Bulby[m]> | ... too bad polysemy-zoo isn't on stack |
| 2022-06-07 01:49:06 +0200 | <jackdk> | DigitalKiwi: is that even a thing any more? I remember scavenging C and D cells from various toys back in the day, but wouldn't everything charge via USB these days? |
| 2022-06-07 01:49:26 +0200 | <jackdk> | Bulby[m]: I hate to say it, but I don't think I've seen a happy stack user in a long time. |
| 2022-06-07 01:49:45 +0200 | <Bulby[m]> | hahaahah |
| 2022-06-07 01:50:22 +0200 | <DigitalKiwi> | have you heard of nix |
| 2022-06-07 01:50:40 +0200 | <DigitalKiwi> | vaibhavsagar[m]: :D |
| 2022-06-07 01:50:46 +0200 | <Bulby[m]> | nixos? i heard that' |
| 2022-06-07 01:50:54 +0200 | <Bulby[m]> | that's even worse |
| 2022-06-07 01:51:08 +0200 | srk- | (~sorki@user/srk) |
| 2022-06-07 01:51:18 +0200 | <DigitalKiwi> | you've been listening to maerwald too much lol |
| 2022-06-07 01:52:05 +0200 | srk | (~sorki@user/srk) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
| 2022-06-07 01:53:31 +0200 | <hpc> | nix is the greatest argument for static typing i have ever seen |
| 2022-06-07 01:53:45 +0200 | <hpc> | everything it does is so cool, and so hard to follow :D |
| 2022-06-07 01:53:55 +0200 | srk- | srk |
| 2022-06-07 01:56:27 +0200 | <jackdk> | My friends had a mug printed which reads "use nix for literally everything". It's a fantastic idea with s l o w l y improving UX. When it works? Fantastic! But I have also had to develop a sixth sense for debugging "Infinite recursion encountered, at undefined position". But it's getting better - I saw Nix 2.9 got a debugger added to its repl |
| 2022-06-07 01:56:30 +0200 | dsrt^ | (~dsrt@c-24-131-46-83.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2022-06-07 01:58:55 +0200 | Ranhir | (~Ranhir@157.97.53.139) |
| 2022-06-07 02:00:30 +0200 | <EvanR> | that sounds like what happens at warp 10 |
| 2022-06-07 02:02:20 +0200 | <dsal> | DigitalKiwi: I live on a small island, so getting batteries shipped to me complicates things quite a bit. |
| 2022-06-07 02:02:49 +0200 | <dsal> | Some of my projects battery kit is "hackage" though |
| 2022-06-07 02:05:04 +0200 | <dsal> | jackdk: I'm a stack user and am relatively happy. I don't interact with stack too much, though. |
| 2022-06-07 02:06:00 +0200 | <jackdk> | dsal: thanks for the data point |
| 2022-06-07 02:06:26 +0200 | <DigitalKiwi> | the less i use stack the happier i am too |
| 2022-06-07 02:06:28 +0200 | <dsal> | Work is nix and make and ghcid. It is… OK. |
| 2022-06-07 02:07:11 +0200 | Alleria_ | (~AllahuAkb@68.65.161.35) (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com) |
| 2022-06-07 02:07:39 +0200 | <jackdk> | make!? Now I'm intrigued. |
| 2022-06-07 02:10:17 +0200 | zeenk | (~zeenk@2a02:2f04:a013:9000:e45d:7fb3:ec71:e806) (Quit: Konversation terminated!) |
| 2022-06-07 02:12:53 +0200 | <dsal> | *huge* makefile. Just a convenient place to leave everyone's entry points. |
| 2022-06-07 02:13:22 +0200 | <dsal> | i.e., make as a script, not make as a dependency tracker thing. |
| 2022-06-07 02:13:40 +0200 | jmcarthur | (~jmcarthur@c-73-29-224-10.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) (Quit: My MacBook Air has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) |
| 2022-06-07 02:15:27 +0200 | <Bulby[m]> | I thought it was bad because it breaks when something small changes |
| 2022-06-07 02:15:33 +0200 | <Bulby[m]> | or maybe those are just lies |
| 2022-06-07 02:15:42 +0200 | <dsal> | What breaks/ |
| 2022-06-07 02:15:51 +0200 | <Bulby[m]> | nix |
| 2022-06-07 02:16:26 +0200 | <dsal> | I use nixos on all my linux machines (at least the ones that will run it). It's super nice. |
| 2022-06-07 02:16:42 +0200 | eggplantade | (~Eggplanta@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:a007:efa3:2690:a05d) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2022-06-07 02:16:43 +0200 | <dsal> | For devs, we all have all the dependencies we need with minimal coordination. |
| 2022-06-07 02:16:55 +0200 | <Bulby[m]> | does it have to be nixos to use nix |
| 2022-06-07 02:17:05 +0200 | <dsal> | Nope, I'm developing on an M1 mac. |
| 2022-06-07 02:17:26 +0200 | <dsal> | (because I don't have my nixos box handy) |
| 2022-06-07 02:17:28 +0200 | <Bulby[m]> | interesting |
| 2022-06-07 02:18:06 +0200 | <dsal> | How to get all of the necessary dependencies installed and all the right stuff in your shell in order to build and run all of our code on whatever platform you're on: `nix-shell` |
| 2022-06-07 02:18:14 +0200 | <monochrom> | Haha so nix and haskell are competing on "who's getting a debugger later" >:) |
| 2022-06-07 02:18:21 +0200 | <yushyin> | :D |
| 2022-06-07 02:18:48 +0200 | <dsal> | I have a debugger for nix. It's just a department I interface with via slack. |
| 2022-06-07 02:19:52 +0200 | <monochrom> | I had a few friends with whom I unilaterally imagined "will I finish my PhD later than them?" so I know the feelling perfectly. (I finished last haha.) |
| 2022-06-07 02:21:36 +0200 | Unicorn_Princess | (~Unicorn_P@93-103-228-248.dynamic.t-2.net) |
| 2022-06-07 02:22:55 +0200 | eggplantade | (~Eggplanta@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:a007:efa3:2690:a05d) |
| 2022-06-07 02:24:18 +0200 | sebastiandb | (~sebastian@pool-108-18-101-17.washdc.fios.verizon.net) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) |
| 2022-06-07 02:24:56 +0200 | raehik | (~raehik@cpc95906-rdng25-2-0-cust156.15-3.cable.virginm.net) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
| 2022-06-07 02:25:23 +0200 | bilegeek | (~bilegeek@2600:1008:b02b:743:567:fb63:d9c2:484b) |
| 2022-06-07 02:27:04 +0200 | <yushyin> | i tried to read up on nix flakes this weekend to use it for my server orchestration. i had no previous experience with nix and i have to say, it's quite a rabbit hole. |
| 2022-06-07 02:30:53 +0200 | DNH | (~DNH@2a02:8108:1100:16d8:bcb2:718:99f3:56c4) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) |
| 2022-06-07 02:32:32 +0200 | notzmv | (~zmv@user/notzmv) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) |
| 2022-06-07 02:42:25 +0200 | Tuplanolla | (~Tuplanoll@91-159-69-1.elisa-laajakaista.fi) (Quit: Leaving.) |
| 2022-06-07 02:42:25 +0200 | <Bulby[m]> | the stack/heap approach for the interp looks really fun for the garbage collector to not do anything about |
| 2022-06-07 02:45:51 +0200 | xff0x | (~xff0x@b133147.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2022-06-07 02:47:37 +0200 | Lord_of_Life | (~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2022-06-07 02:47:52 +0200 | Lord_of_Life | (~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915) |
| 2022-06-07 02:48:43 +0200 | stackdroid18 | (14094@user/stackdroid) (Quit: hasta la vista... tchau!) |
| 2022-06-07 02:48:50 +0200 | <EvanR> | a garbage collector for your heap seems straightforward |
| 2022-06-07 02:56:49 +0200 | nate3 | (~nate@98.45.169.16) |
| 2022-06-07 03:01:45 +0200 | nate3 | (~nate@98.45.169.16) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 2022-06-07 03:03:13 +0200 | finsternis | (~X@23.226.237.192) |
| 2022-06-07 03:05:53 +0200 | alp | (~alp@user/alp) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
| 2022-06-07 03:10:22 +0200 | albet70 | (~xxx@2400:8902::f03c:92ff:fe60:98d8) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2022-06-07 03:16:30 +0200 | albet70 | (~xxx@2400:8902::f03c:92ff:fe60:98d8) |
| 2022-06-07 03:26:04 +0200 | <EvanR> | oof unless cyclic references |
| 2022-06-07 03:26:26 +0200 | Topsi | (~Topsi@dyndsl-095-033-092-041.ewe-ip-backbone.de) |
| 2022-06-07 03:29:07 +0200 | waleee | (~waleee@2001:9b0:213:7200:cc36:a556:b1e8:b340) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-06-07 03:33:29 +0200 | cosimone | (~user@2001:b07:ae5:db26:57c7:21a5:6e1c:6b81) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2022-06-07 03:34:16 +0200 | xff0x | (~xff0x@s5.HtokyoFL1.vectant.ne.jp) |
| 2022-06-07 03:36:20 +0200 | cosimone | (~user@2001:b07:ae5:db26:57c7:21a5:6e1c:6b81) |
| 2022-06-07 03:37:06 +0200 | sebastiandb | (~sebastian@pool-108-18-101-17.washdc.fios.verizon.net) |
| 2022-06-07 03:39:16 +0200 | notzmv | (~zmv@user/notzmv) |
| 2022-06-07 03:39:30 +0200 | abhixec | (~abhixec@c-67-169-139-16.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-06-07 03:48:31 +0200 | andrey__ | (~andrey@p200300dbcf15530023ad2f8f21d0715c.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 2022-06-07 03:49:23 +0200 | slack1256 | (~slack1256@186.11.82.227) |
| 2022-06-07 03:51:03 +0200 | andrey_ | (~andrey@p200300dbcf0906009ea91513703af53a.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
| 2022-06-07 03:53:13 +0200 | <Benzi-Junior> | http://ix.io/3ZAB |
| 2022-06-07 03:58:59 +0200 | <Benzi-Junior> | I'm trying to figure out how to build the interpretations of the operations "delay", "broadcast", and "receive" as specified by runIO |
| 2022-06-07 03:59:42 +0200 | <Benzi-Junior> | because I'm fairly sure I'm not supposed to go back to dealing with the constructors |
| 2022-06-07 04:02:56 +0200 | <Bulby[m]> | for that heap, if you find it on the stack is it guarenteed to be on the heap? |
| 2022-06-07 04:04:23 +0200 | gurkenglas | (~gurkengla@dslb-084-057-085-111.084.057.pools.vodafone-ip.de) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
| 2022-06-07 04:04:54 +0200 | <jackdk> | Benzi-Junior: looks like some good progress there. You will need to match on the constructors, but only to consume the `Agent msg ()` structure. Can you write a function that can run a single agent? |
| 2022-06-07 04:11:36 +0200 | <Benzi-Junior> | jackdk, huh surprised to hear that, I don't see myself having any issues writing a processing function that matches on constructors |
| 2022-06-07 04:11:57 +0200 | <Benzi-Junior> | just thought that was the wrong way to do it |
| 2022-06-07 04:12:51 +0200 | <Axman6> | ok, morality question time: if I have a function foo :: a -> b, whhich might occasionally call error, is it morally ok to do something like foo' :: a -> Either SomeException b; foo' a = unsafePerformIO (try (evaluate (foo b))) |
| 2022-06-07 04:13:37 +0200 | <Benzi-Junior> | well I need to figure out what the right way to write the Agent msg a -> STM a part |
| 2022-06-07 04:13:48 +0200 | <Benzi-Junior> | but the logic I feel should be simple |
| 2022-06-07 04:14:45 +0200 | yosef` | (~user@user/yosef/x-2947716) |
| 2022-06-07 04:16:12 +0200 | jao | (~jao@cpc103048-sgyl39-2-0-cust502.18-2.cable.virginm.net) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 2022-06-07 04:16:59 +0200 | <Bulby[m]> | oh i'm getting some of the picture now - recursion ftw ! |
| 2022-06-07 04:17:53 +0200 | df | (~ben@justworks.xyz) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2022-06-07 04:18:43 +0200 | [itchyjunk] | (~itchyjunk@user/itchyjunk/x-7353470) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2022-06-07 04:20:45 +0200 | td_ | (~td@muedsl-82-207-238-164.citykom.de) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 2022-06-07 04:22:06 +0200 | td_ | (~td@muedsl-82-207-238-064.citykom.de) |
| 2022-06-07 04:29:57 +0200 | k8yun | (~k8yun@user/k8yun) |
| 2022-06-07 04:33:15 +0200 | <jackdk> | Axman6: I assume there's a reason not to rewrite it directly to `a -> Either String b`? |
| 2022-06-07 04:34:50 +0200 | MsGaGaGa | (~MsGaGaGa@S01069050ca4e3573.cg.shawcable.net) |
| 2022-06-07 04:37:12 +0200 | <Axman6> | it's from a library |
| 2022-06-07 04:37:21 +0200 | <jackdk> | Axman6: fork it |
| 2022-06-07 04:37:28 +0200 | <Axman6> | but it turns out I actually want to steal its whole implementation |
| 2022-06-07 04:38:01 +0200 | <jackdk> | Also I think you could catch `ErrorCall` and not `SomeException` |
| 2022-06-07 04:38:59 +0200 | zebrag | (~chris@user/zebrag) (Quit: Konversation terminated!) |
| 2022-06-07 04:44:33 +0200 | FinnElija | (~finn_elij@user/finn-elija/x-0085643) (Killed (NickServ (Forcing logout FinnElija -> finn_elija))) |
| 2022-06-07 04:44:37 +0200 | FinnElija | (~finn_elij@user/finn-elija/x-0085643) |
| 2022-06-07 04:56:32 +0200 | _xor | (~xor@72.49.198.103) (Quit: brb) |
| 2022-06-07 05:01:57 +0200 | MsGaGaGa | (~MsGaGaGa@S01069050ca4e3573.cg.shawcable.net) (Quit: Client closed) |
| 2022-06-07 05:03:00 +0200 | andrey_ | (~andrey@p200300dbcf1b4800d6d421d0e0348cd5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 2022-06-07 05:05:27 +0200 | andrey__ | (~andrey@p200300dbcf15530023ad2f8f21d0715c.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-06-07 05:05:42 +0200 | bitdex | (~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex) |
| 2022-06-07 05:15:18 +0200 | ente | (~daemon@inferno.barfooze.de) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) |
| 2022-06-07 05:19:25 +0200 | <Bulby[m]> | i have to have a counter in my megaparsec parser.... obviously the solution is to write a megaparsec polysemy effect |
| 2022-06-07 05:21:53 +0200 | <dsal> | I use StateT for that sort of thing. |
| 2022-06-07 05:24:05 +0200 | <Bulby[m]> | i have one better: unsafe perform io |
| 2022-06-07 05:24:39 +0200 | <Cale> | Bulby[m]: Isn't megaparsec itself a transformer? |
| 2022-06-07 05:24:48 +0200 | <Cale> | Or am I confusing it with the original parsec? |
| 2022-06-07 05:24:59 +0200 | <Bulby[m]> | yes LOL |
| 2022-06-07 05:25:14 +0200 | <Cale> | data ParsecT e s m a |
| 2022-06-07 05:25:16 +0200 | <Bulby[m]> | megaparsec is a transformer |
| 2022-06-07 05:25:27 +0200 | <Cale> | yeah, that's the reason it's a transformer, so you can transform IO |
| 2022-06-07 05:25:45 +0200 | <Cale> | (or anything else) |
| 2022-06-07 05:26:09 +0200 | <Cale> | But also, it's possible to do a counter without transforming |
| 2022-06-07 05:26:17 +0200 | <Bulby[m]> | how so |
| 2022-06-07 05:26:21 +0200 | <Cale> | Just have a parser that is defined as a function of the count |
| 2022-06-07 05:26:26 +0200 | <Cale> | and make it recursive |
| 2022-06-07 05:26:58 +0200 | <Cale> | (or several parsers, if needs be) |
| 2022-06-07 05:32:00 +0200 | <Bulby[m]> | that sounds like I should just use ParsecT |
| 2022-06-07 05:32:34 +0200 | littlebobeep | (~alMalsamo@gateway/tor-sasl/almalsamo) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-06-07 05:33:03 +0200 | <dsal> | Are you not? |
| 2022-06-07 05:33:15 +0200 | <Cale> | Yeah, possibly. Depends on how long you need to use the counter for, how many things would need an extra parameter |
| 2022-06-07 05:33:20 +0200 | <Bulby[m]> | i was using Parsec, not ParsecT |
| 2022-06-07 05:33:58 +0200 | <dsal> | type Parsec s u = ParsecT s u Identity |
| 2022-06-07 05:35:16 +0200 | zebrag | (~chris@user/zebrag) |
| 2022-06-07 05:36:53 +0200 | <Bulby[m]> | argh I hate that I can't just registerParseFailure in makeExprParser operators |
| 2022-06-07 05:39:20 +0200 | zebrag | (~chris@user/zebrag) (Client Quit) |
| 2022-06-07 05:39:21 +0200 | gio123 | (~gio123@146.255.226.194) |
| 2022-06-07 05:39:47 +0200 | <dsal> | I'm not sure what that means. |
| 2022-06-07 05:48:29 +0200 | <Bulby[m]> | https://paste.tomsmeding.com/FYNShH5z now this is programming |
| 2022-06-07 05:49:20 +0200 | ente | (~daemon@inferno.barfooze.de) |
| 2022-06-07 05:51:53 +0200 | calleum_ | (~calleum@user/calleum) |
| 2022-06-07 05:55:00 +0200 | littlebobeep | (~alMalsamo@gateway/tor-sasl/almalsamo) |
| 2022-06-07 05:57:28 +0200 | eggplant_ | (~Eggplanta@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:a48b:5f36:2f4:7e9e) |
| 2022-06-07 06:00:29 +0200 | eggplantade | (~Eggplanta@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:a007:efa3:2690:a05d) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
| 2022-06-07 06:02:38 +0200 | Topsi1 | (~Topsi@dyndsl-095-033-027-152.ewe-ip-backbone.de) |
| 2022-06-07 06:02:49 +0200 | gio123 | (~gio123@146.255.226.194) (Quit: Client closed) |
| 2022-06-07 06:03:14 +0200 | gio123 | (~gio123@146.255.226.194) |
| 2022-06-07 06:04:19 +0200 | Topsi | (~Topsi@dyndsl-095-033-092-041.ewe-ip-backbone.de) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
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| 2022-06-07 06:12:05 +0200 | sebastiandb_ | (~sebastian@pool-108-18-101-17.washdc.fios.verizon.net) |
| 2022-06-07 06:12:43 +0200 | madnight | (~madnight@static.59.103.201.195.clients.your-server.de) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
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| 2022-06-07 06:13:25 +0200 | shailangsa | (~shailangs@host86-186-136-116.range86-186.btcentralplus.com) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2022-06-07 06:13:30 +0200 | monochrm | (~trebla@216.138.220.146) |
| 2022-06-07 06:13:37 +0200 | madnight | (~madnight@static.59.103.201.195.clients.your-server.de) |
| 2022-06-07 06:13:41 +0200 | tafa | (~tafa@user/tafa) |
| 2022-06-07 06:13:46 +0200 | gnyeki | (~gnyeki@user/gnyeki) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2022-06-07 06:13:52 +0200 | CodeKiwi | (~kiwi@2604:a880:400:d0::1ca0:e001) |
| 2022-06-07 06:13:55 +0200 | Philonous_ | (~Philonous@user/philonous) |
| 2022-06-07 06:14:07 +0200 | mzan | (~quassel@mail.asterisell.com) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
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| 2022-06-07 06:14:28 +0200 | monochrom | (trebla@216.138.220.146) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2022-06-07 06:14:28 +0200 | DigitalKiwi | (~kiwi@137.184.156.191) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2022-06-07 06:14:28 +0200 | Philonous | (~Philonous@user/philonous) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2022-06-07 06:14:28 +0200 | monochrm | monochrom |
| 2022-06-07 06:14:33 +0200 | fiddlerwoaroof | (~fiddlerwo@user/fiddlerwoaroof) |
| 2022-06-07 06:14:49 +0200 | Typedfern | (~Typedfern@202.red-83-37-35.dynamicip.rima-tde.net) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
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| 2022-06-07 06:14:55 +0200 | mzan | (~quassel@mail.asterisell.com) |
| 2022-06-07 06:15:45 +0200 | gnyeki | (~gnyeki@li578-216.members.linode.com) |
| 2022-06-07 06:15:45 +0200 | gnyeki | (~gnyeki@li578-216.members.linode.com) (Changing host) |
| 2022-06-07 06:15:45 +0200 | gnyeki | (~gnyeki@user/gnyeki) |
| 2022-06-07 06:15:59 +0200 | icebreaker | (~icebreake@user/icebreaker) |
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| 2022-06-07 06:16:34 +0200 | noteness | (~noteness@user/noteness) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
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| 2022-06-07 06:17:04 +0200 | adanwan | (~adanwan@gateway/tor-sasl/adanwan) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-06-07 06:17:34 +0200 | littlebobeep | (~alMalsamo@gateway/tor-sasl/almalsamo) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-06-07 06:18:48 +0200 | noteness | (~noteness@user/noteness) |
| 2022-06-07 06:19:08 +0200 | adanwan | (~adanwan@gateway/tor-sasl/adanwan) |
| 2022-06-07 06:19:43 +0200 | califax | (~califax@user/califx) |
| 2022-06-07 06:21:31 +0200 | mbuf | (~Shakthi@223.190.216.42) |
| 2022-06-07 06:23:40 +0200 | Vajb | (~Vajb@hag-jnsbng11-58c3a8-176.dhcp.inet.fi) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2022-06-07 06:23:49 +0200 | Vajb | (~Vajb@n5ar9yynwxqg80e32-2.v6.elisa-mobile.fi) |
| 2022-06-07 06:25:33 +0200 | nate3 | (~nate@98.45.169.16) |
| 2022-06-07 06:28:18 +0200 | Typedfern | (~Typedfern@202.red-83-37-35.dynamicip.rima-tde.net) |
| 2022-06-07 06:30:11 +0200 | andrey__ | (~andrey@p508d49e0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 2022-06-07 06:30:45 +0200 | nate3 | (~nate@98.45.169.16) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 2022-06-07 06:30:50 +0200 | rekahsoft | (~rekahsoft@bras-base-wdston4533w-grc-02-142-113-160-8.dsl.bell.ca) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-06-07 06:31:59 +0200 | <dsal> | Bulby[m]: Why do that when you have several ways to do it right? |
| 2022-06-07 06:32:27 +0200 | andrey_ | (~andrey@p200300dbcf1b4800d6d421d0e0348cd5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-06-07 06:33:51 +0200 | littlebobeep | (~alMalsamo@gateway/tor-sasl/almalsamo) |
| 2022-06-07 06:50:30 +0200 | Topsi1 | (~Topsi@dyndsl-095-033-027-152.ewe-ip-backbone.de) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2022-06-07 06:51:50 +0200 | calleum_ | (~calleum@user/calleum) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-06-07 06:54:01 +0200 | dsrt^ | (~dsrt@c-24-131-46-83.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) |
| 2022-06-07 06:54:34 +0200 | <slack1256> | @let sumGuarded xs = scarl' (+) 0 xs |
| 2022-06-07 06:54:36 +0200 | <lambdabot> | /sandbox/tmp/.L.hs:160:17: error: |
| 2022-06-07 06:54:36 +0200 | <lambdabot> | • Variable not in scope: |
| 2022-06-07 06:54:36 +0200 | <lambdabot> | scarl' :: (a0 -> a0 -> a0) -> t0 -> t -> t1 |
| 2022-06-07 06:54:43 +0200 | shailangsa_ | (~shailangs@host86-186-136-116.range86-186.btcentralplus.com) |
| 2022-06-07 06:54:44 +0200 | <slack1256> | @let sumGuarded xs = scanl' (+) 0 xs |
| 2022-06-07 06:54:46 +0200 | <lambdabot> | Defined. |
| 2022-06-07 06:54:58 +0200 | <slack1256> | > sumGuarded [10,9..1] |
| 2022-06-07 06:55:00 +0200 | <lambdabot> | [0,10,19,27,34,40,45,49,52,54,55] |
| 2022-06-07 06:55:49 +0200 | gio123 | (~gio123@146.255.226.194) (Quit: Client closed) |
| 2022-06-07 06:56:24 +0200 | <slack1256> | I argue that we should deprecate `sum` as for infinite data type (such as list) it will return bottom. I think it is better to map to the infinite stream in case the argument is one. |
| 2022-06-07 06:56:44 +0200 | <slack1256> | Agree or disagree ? |
| 2022-06-07 06:59:31 +0200 | <EvanR> | people use non-negative Int too |
| 2022-06-07 06:59:56 +0200 | <EvanR> | as well as finite lists, in unchecked ways |
| 2022-06-07 07:00:31 +0200 | <EvanR> | also, sum is not list-specific |
| 2022-06-07 07:00:54 +0200 | k8yun | (~k8yun@user/k8yun) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2022-06-07 07:01:50 +0200 | <EvanR> | a sequence of partials sums is an entirely different animal so doesn't function as a drop in replacement |
| 2022-06-07 07:02:09 +0200 | <slack1256> | Also, if you guys have time, check http://www2.tcs.ifi.lmu.de/~abel/popl13.pdf about copatterns for codata. That example in section 2.2 sold me the idea. |
| 2022-06-07 07:02:34 +0200 | littlebobeep | (~alMalsamo@gateway/tor-sasl/almalsamo) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-06-07 07:08:57 +0200 | motherfsck | (~motherfsc@user/motherfsck) (Quit: quit) |
| 2022-06-07 07:09:00 +0200 | <lyxia> | I'll agree if you give me a type of lazy finite lists as a replacement. |
| 2022-06-07 07:09:15 +0200 | k8yun | (~k8yun@user/k8yun) |
| 2022-06-07 07:12:01 +0200 | <EvanR> | a Vec indexed by an existential Nat? xD |
| 2022-06-07 07:12:04 +0200 | littlebobeep | (~alMalsamo@gateway/tor-sasl/almalsamo) |
| 2022-06-07 07:13:34 +0200 | FinnElija | (~finn_elij@user/finn-elija/x-0085643) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-06-07 07:14:54 +0200 | <slack1256> | Better yet, how can we pass a proof along that a list is finite? |
| 2022-06-07 07:15:15 +0200 | <slack1256> | I can only think on a Ghost of Departed Proof kind of setup. |
| 2022-06-07 07:16:52 +0200 | <EvanR> | a Vec indexed by an existential Nat |
| 2022-06-07 07:17:04 +0200 | <dolio> | Existentials make things strict. |
| 2022-06-07 07:18:11 +0200 | FinnElija | (~finn_elij@user/finn-elija/x-0085643) |
| 2022-06-07 07:19:19 +0200 | yosef`` | (~user@223.73.197.95) |
| 2022-06-07 07:19:32 +0200 | <dolio> | At least if you build them up in pieces. |
| 2022-06-07 07:19:58 +0200 | yosef` | (~user@user/yosef/x-2947716) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2022-06-07 07:20:12 +0200 | <EvanR> | well someone wants to build it lazily, then someone else wants to consume it without knowing how it was built |
| 2022-06-07 07:20:40 +0200 | <EvanR> | first person might need to use a known Nat |
| 2022-06-07 07:22:07 +0200 | <EvanR> | lazy fuel |
| 2022-06-07 07:23:21 +0200 | Polo | (~Gambino@user/polo) |
| 2022-06-07 07:24:07 +0200 | sebastiandb_ | (~sebastian@pool-108-18-101-17.washdc.fios.verizon.net) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) |
| 2022-06-07 07:32:12 +0200 | takuan | (~takuan@178-116-218-225.access.telenet.be) |
| 2022-06-07 07:34:03 +0200 | dyeplexer | (~dyeplexer@user/dyeplexer) |
| 2022-06-07 07:35:26 +0200 | Polo | (~Gambino@user/polo) (Quit: Polo) |
| 2022-06-07 07:41:26 +0200 | chomwitt | (~chomwitt@2a02:587:dc1f:5600:c2b2:8e31:c818:61b1) |
| 2022-06-07 07:42:54 +0200 | slack1256 | (~slack1256@186.11.82.227) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 2022-06-07 07:46:33 +0200 | andrey_ | (~andrey@p508d48e4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 2022-06-07 07:49:03 +0200 | andrey__ | (~andrey@p508d49e0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 2022-06-07 07:49:04 +0200 | littlebobeep | (~alMalsamo@gateway/tor-sasl/almalsamo) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-06-07 07:51:08 +0200 | motherfsck | (~motherfsc@user/motherfsck) |
| 2022-06-07 07:52:32 +0200 | money | (~Gambino@user/polo) |
| 2022-06-07 07:59:04 +0200 | FinnElija | (~finn_elij@user/finn-elija/x-0085643) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-06-07 08:00:16 +0200 | szkl | (uid110435@id-110435.uxbridge.irccloud.com) |
| 2022-06-07 08:00:19 +0200 | bilegeek | (~bilegeek@2600:1008:b02b:743:567:fb63:d9c2:484b) (Quit: Leaving) |
| 2022-06-07 08:02:57 +0200 | FinnElija | (~finn_elij@user/finn-elija/x-0085643) |
| 2022-06-07 08:04:02 +0200 | dsrt^ | (~dsrt@c-24-131-46-83.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2022-06-07 08:06:13 +0200 | littlebobeep | (~alMalsamo@gateway/tor-sasl/almalsamo) |
| 2022-06-07 08:08:45 +0200 | acidjnk_new | (~acidjnk@p200300d0c7068b707c47e4f6eb00087c.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 2022-06-07 08:10:43 +0200 | <gnyeki> | is my impression correct that efforts to bring CUDA to Haskell have mostly stopped around 6 to 8 years ago? if yes, why might this be? |
| 2022-06-07 08:11:49 +0200 | <Athas> | gnyeki: I don't think that is true. The 'cuda' library is maintained to some extent. Last update was in 2021. |
| 2022-06-07 08:12:06 +0200 | <Athas> | It's a low level library, so it probably does not require much maintenance. I expect it still works. |
| 2022-06-07 08:12:11 +0200 | k8yun | (~k8yun@user/k8yun) (Quit: Leaving) |
| 2022-06-07 08:17:37 +0200 | money | (~Gambino@user/polo) (Quit: money) |
| 2022-06-07 08:21:56 +0200 | vglfr | (~vglfr@46.96.142.51) |
| 2022-06-07 08:23:53 +0200 | littlebo1eep | (~alMalsamo@gateway/tor-sasl/almalsamo) |
| 2022-06-07 08:24:04 +0200 | littlebobeep | (~alMalsamo@gateway/tor-sasl/almalsamo) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-06-07 08:25:21 +0200 | remedan | (~remedan@octo.cafe) |
| 2022-06-07 08:25:25 +0200 | <sloorush> | Hello, I was not able to build a project and then I found that some packages are broken this is what I have |
| 2022-06-07 08:25:26 +0200 | <sloorush> | ``` |
| 2022-06-07 08:25:26 +0200 | <sloorush> | ❯ ghc-pkg check --simple-output |
| 2022-06-07 08:25:27 +0200 | <sloorush> | ghcid-0.8.7 |
| 2022-06-07 08:25:27 +0200 | <sloorush> | ``` |
| 2022-06-07 08:25:28 +0200 | <sloorush> | I have tried using this to fix it but no luck https://stackoverflow.com/a/7963056/13308517 |
| 2022-06-07 08:25:28 +0200 | <sloorush> | I tried reinstalling ghcid, but it failed, here is the log: |
| 2022-06-07 08:25:29 +0200 | <sloorush> | https://pastebin.com/rNivhW3A |
| 2022-06-07 08:26:32 +0200 | andrey__ | (~andrey@p200300dbcf1e5100509bf59e4ea7342a.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 2022-06-07 08:26:55 +0200 | cfricke | (~cfricke@user/cfricke) |
| 2022-06-07 08:29:10 +0200 | andrey_ | (~andrey@p508d48e4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) |
| 2022-06-07 08:33:38 +0200 | coot | (~coot@213.134.190.95) |
| 2022-06-07 08:35:03 +0200 | <gnyeki> | Athas: hmm you're right, 'accelerate' has been getting commits too. i will look at it. the github page doesn't list papers published after 2017 though which makes me wonder why |
| 2022-06-07 08:35:49 +0200 | <Athas> | gnyeki: I know several people are still actively working on it. I don't know why they don't have any more recent papers listed. |
| 2022-06-07 08:36:47 +0200 | shriekingnoise | (~shrieking@201.231.16.156) (Quit: Quit) |
| 2022-06-07 08:45:00 +0200 | odnes | (~odnes@5-203-158-63.pat.nym.cosmote.net) |
| 2022-06-07 08:46:04 +0200 | littlebo1eep | (~alMalsamo@gateway/tor-sasl/almalsamo) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-06-07 08:47:59 +0200 | littlebobeep | (~alMalsamo@gateway/tor-sasl/almalsamo) |
| 2022-06-07 08:52:56 +0200 | <[exa]> | sloorush: that looks like a slightly broken install |
| 2022-06-07 08:53:32 +0200 | <[exa]> | (obviously it says that the consistency of your `base` package is broken, which is probably going to prevent reasonable installation of almost anything) |
| 2022-06-07 08:53:43 +0200 | <[exa]> | how did you get to this state btw? |
| 2022-06-07 08:54:25 +0200 | <[exa]> | also, just removing ~/.cabal and perhaps ~/.ghc and starting anew may at least get you working builds |
| 2022-06-07 08:55:22 +0200 | vglfr | (~vglfr@46.96.142.51) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
| 2022-06-07 08:58:25 +0200 | Sgeo | (~Sgeo@user/sgeo) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2022-06-07 09:04:27 +0200 | mattil | (~mattil@helsinki.portalify.com) |
| 2022-06-07 09:08:30 +0200 | lottaquestions_ | (~nick@104.221.94.126) |
| 2022-06-07 09:10:26 +0200 | lortabac | (~lortabac@2a01:e0a:541:b8f0:7f61:118e:9d6b:1e04) |
| 2022-06-07 09:10:46 +0200 | chexum | (~quassel@gateway/tor-sasl/chexum) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2022-06-07 09:10:50 +0200 | lottaquestions | (~nick@2607:fa49:5041:a200:a394:e3c:d4d7:cf13) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
| 2022-06-07 09:11:23 +0200 | chexum | (~quassel@gateway/tor-sasl/chexum) |
| 2022-06-07 09:13:15 +0200 | kitty1 | (~kitty@096-039-147-043.res.spectrum.com) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 2022-06-07 09:13:53 +0200 | lottaquestions_ | (~nick@104.221.94.126) (Quit: Konversation terminated!) |
| 2022-06-07 09:14:12 +0200 | lottaquestions_ | (~nick@2607:fa49:5041:a200:decd:e377:11b7:e80e) |
| 2022-06-07 09:14:21 +0200 | <sloorush> | [exa] This did not work, i got some help from the discord server, reinstalled everything using ghcup instead of pacman, and it works now, Thank you! |
| 2022-06-07 09:16:18 +0200 | <maerwald[m]> | sloorush: arch has broken GHC |
| 2022-06-07 09:16:45 +0200 | p_____ | (~dyeplexer@user/dyeplexer) |
| 2022-06-07 09:17:38 +0200 | <maerwald[m]> | The amount of pain arch devs have caused to their haskell users is enough that haskell.ort now actively discourages installing ghc from arch repos: https://www.haskell.org/downloads/ |
| 2022-06-07 09:17:48 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | gnyeki: Athas:there's https://dblp.uni-trier.de/rec/conf/europar/HaakMKW20.html which AFAIK isn't merged into accelerate proper, and https://arxiv.org/abs/2108.13114 (which _is_ available in accelerate-1.3) which should still be published at a conference at some point |
| 2022-06-07 09:18:08 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | maerwald[m]: haskell.place? :p |
| 2022-06-07 09:18:16 +0200 | <maerwald[m]> | No other distro has managed to get discouraged that way. So gj archlinux. Please tell your distro maintainers. |
| 2022-06-07 09:19:17 +0200 | dyeplexer | (~dyeplexer@user/dyeplexer) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2022-06-07 09:20:16 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | gnyeki: current work on accelerate is mostly reworking the entire backend, which takes a while :p |
| 2022-06-07 09:20:28 +0200 | <maerwald[m]> | tomsmeding: what? |
| 2022-06-07 09:20:53 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | maerwald[m]: haskell.ort |
| 2022-06-07 09:21:20 +0200 | <[exa]> | sloorush: ah okay, arch :] good that it's solved |
| 2022-06-07 09:21:26 +0200 | <maerwald[m]> | You want a cookie for finding spelling mistake? 😄 |
| 2022-06-07 09:21:34 +0200 | motherfsck | (~motherfsc@user/motherfsck) (Quit: quit) |
| 2022-06-07 09:22:08 +0200 | p_____ | (~dyeplexer@user/dyeplexer) (Quit: Leaving) |
| 2022-06-07 09:22:27 +0200 | p_____ | (~dyeplexer@user/dyeplexer) |
| 2022-06-07 09:23:52 +0200 | <maerwald[m]> | https://data.iana.org/TLD/tlds-alpha-by-domain.txt |
| 2022-06-07 09:23:58 +0200 | <maerwald[m]> | Seems there's no .ort |
| 2022-06-07 09:24:01 +0200 | <maerwald[m]> | Too bad |
| 2022-06-07 09:25:09 +0200 | money | (~Gambino@user/polo) |
| 2022-06-07 09:25:23 +0200 | calleum_ | (~calleum@user/calleum) |
| 2022-06-07 09:25:54 +0200 | p_____ | dyeplexer |
| 2022-06-07 09:26:17 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | sad |
| 2022-06-07 09:26:33 +0200 | <maerwald[m]> | Yeah, but .space exists |
| 2022-06-07 09:27:19 +0200 | <maerwald[m]> | And .sucks |
| 2022-06-07 09:27:34 +0200 | <maerwald[m]> | That's nice. I'll create archlinux.sucks |
| 2022-06-07 09:27:37 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | lol |
| 2022-06-07 09:27:49 +0200 | <darkling> | Not sure something meaning "midden" is a particularly saleable TLD. :) |
| 2022-06-07 09:28:29 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | maerwald[m]: arch is nice, you should just ignore the haskell packages |
| 2022-06-07 09:30:13 +0200 | <maerwald[m]> | tomsmeding: i've used arch for 2.5 years and also contributed to AUR. Never again |
| 2022-06-07 09:30:45 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | I've used arch for more than that and still going strong, now on two machines |
| 2022-06-07 09:30:56 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | though I've never contributed to AUR yet, maybe that's an important difference |
| 2022-06-07 09:30:58 +0200 | <maerwald[m]> | Their package definitions have low quality and they lack sensible policies |
| 2022-06-07 09:30:59 +0200 | <jackdk> | Arch's packaging model scared me; I felt the AUR was a bit too "wild west". Moved back to Gentoo, and years later, to NixOS |
| 2022-06-07 09:31:36 +0200 | <maerwald[m]> | Gentoo is one of the few distros that has strong policies and relatively good QA, but god is the PM awful |
| 2022-06-07 09:32:29 +0200 | <maerwald[m]> | NixOS is the other way around: smart PM, awful packages and ecosystem. You can never win |
| 2022-06-07 09:33:05 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | fedora is supposed to have somewhat more of a QA process |
| 2022-06-07 09:33:12 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | but their PM is very slow, being written in python :D |
| 2022-06-07 09:33:32 +0200 | <maerwald[m]> | tomsmeding: i'm using fedora right now and the amount of updates that broke stuff are a LOT |
| 2022-06-07 09:33:50 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | ah |
| 2022-06-07 09:33:56 +0200 | <maerwald[m]> | E.g. there's zero testing of new kernel or nvidia driver versions |
| 2022-06-07 09:34:06 +0200 | <maerwald[m]> | They just bump. The user is the tester |
| 2022-06-07 09:34:35 +0200 | <maerwald[m]> | Once ie the middle of a coding session an upgrade broke the xserver and crashed everything |
| 2022-06-07 09:36:02 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | why do you upgrade in the middle of a coding session |
| 2022-06-07 09:36:15 +0200 | <maerwald[m]> | But it's somewhat ok if you only update occasionally or exclude certain packages |
| 2022-06-07 09:36:38 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | but that's worse than I've had on arch :p |
| 2022-06-07 09:36:43 +0200 | <maerwald[m]> | tomsmeding: prolly when the Firefox bug or whatever hit us |
| 2022-06-07 09:36:46 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | worst I had was non-booting because broken nvidia |
| 2022-06-07 09:36:58 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | ah |
| 2022-06-07 09:37:58 +0200 | <maerwald[m]> | Yeah on fedora a packager split the nvidia package into two, breaking suspend to ram, because the split off utility package wasn't automatically pulled in. That's both a maintainer, a policy and potentially a package manager messup |
| 2022-06-07 09:38:36 +0200 | zeenk | (~zeenk@2a02:2f04:a013:9000:e45d:7fb3:ec71:e806) |
| 2022-06-07 09:38:47 +0200 | notzmv | (~zmv@user/notzmv) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-06-07 09:45:11 +0200 | lottaquestions | (~nick@104.221.94.126) |
| 2022-06-07 09:45:47 +0200 | kitty1 | (~kitty@096-039-147-043.res.spectrum.com) |
| 2022-06-07 09:46:10 +0200 | yosef`` | (~user@223.73.197.95) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2022-06-07 09:46:44 +0200 | mc47 | (~mc47@xmonad/TheMC47) |
| 2022-06-07 09:46:50 +0200 | <Athas> | Does anyone here have any experiences with decomposing Haskell programs into multiple internal libraries, rather than a single large library? |
| 2022-06-07 09:47:04 +0200 | yosef``` | (~user@2409:8a55:e215:42f0:58b9:4cff:fea0:d9) (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 26.1)) |
| 2022-06-07 09:47:16 +0200 | lottaquestions_ | (~nick@2607:fa49:5041:a200:decd:e377:11b7:e80e) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 2022-06-07 09:47:46 +0200 | <Athas> | My motivation would be twofold: 0) stricter enforcement of internal abstraction boundaries. 2) cabal seems a lot better at concurrent compilation of packages than concurrent compilation of modules. |
| 2022-06-07 09:47:52 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | what kind of experience are you looking for? I've used cabal's internal libraries some |
| 2022-06-07 09:48:06 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | though not published to hackage |
| 2022-06-07 09:48:13 +0200 | <maerwald[m]> | tomsmeding: wow .sucks domains are insanely expensive |
| 2022-06-07 09:48:22 +0200 | yosef`` | (~user@user/yosef/x-3154124) |
| 2022-06-07 09:48:23 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | maerwald[m]: all the vanity TLDs are like that |
| 2022-06-07 09:48:55 +0200 | <tdammers> | Athas: you make it sound like a big deal, but there's not an awful lot to it, or am I missing something here? |
| 2022-06-07 09:49:13 +0200 | pretty_dumm_guy | (trottel@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/prettydummguy/x-88029655) |
| 2022-06-07 09:49:46 +0200 | tzh | (~tzh@c-24-21-73-154.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) (Quit: zzz) |
| 2022-06-07 09:50:05 +0200 | <Athas> | tdammers: I'm just looking for experiences with doing it that way. Whether it just provides busywork with no real advantage. |
| 2022-06-07 09:51:58 +0200 | <sm> | i did it. it has to be worth the extra noise and ongoing maintenance effort |
| 2022-06-07 09:52:04 +0200 | littlebobeep | (~alMalsamo@gateway/tor-sasl/almalsamo) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-06-07 09:52:38 +0200 | <Athas> | Why did you do it? |
| 2022-06-07 09:52:40 +0200 | yosef`` | (~user@user/yosef/x-3154124) (Client Quit) |
| 2022-06-07 09:53:46 +0200 | <sm> | the main reason actually was to reduce dependencies/build effort for optional functionality that not everybody needed or could build on certain platforms |
| 2022-06-07 09:54:01 +0200 | Pickchea | (~private@user/pickchea) |
| 2022-06-07 09:54:26 +0200 | dos__^^ | (~user@user/dos/x-1723657) |
| 2022-06-07 09:54:27 +0200 | <Athas> | Because cabal flags are easier to apply at the component level than at the module level? |
| 2022-06-07 09:54:41 +0200 | <sm> | also to compartmentalise and reduce cognitive load / allow independent releases, etc |
| 2022-06-07 09:54:51 +0200 | ente | (~daemon@inferno.barfooze.de) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 2022-06-07 09:54:54 +0200 | hsw_ | hsw |
| 2022-06-07 09:55:04 +0200 | <sm> | no, cabal flags are to be avoided |
| 2022-06-07 09:58:19 +0200 | titibandit | (~titibandi@2a00:8a60:c000:1:8a13:bf74:b2:8d47) |
| 2022-06-07 09:59:29 +0200 | calleum_ | (~calleum@user/calleum) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2022-06-07 10:00:04 +0200 | <sm> | I'll be concrete: hledger-ui doesn't build on windows. hledger-web requires a more complex set of deps that used to be hard to build reliably. I split them off to allow easier/incremental installation of hledger's UIs. All of hledger (cli) isn't needed for scripts, so I split off hledger-lib. All of these have to be maintained separately on hackage, stackage etc., and understood by end users, so more would be counterproductive |
| 2022-06-07 10:01:17 +0200 | yosef` | (~user@user/yosef/x-2947716) |
| 2022-06-07 10:04:16 +0200 | littlebobeep | (~alMalsamo@gateway/tor-sasl/almalsamo) |
| 2022-06-07 10:04:26 +0200 | alp | (~alp@user/alp) |
| 2022-06-07 10:04:30 +0200 | sm | remembers that things have improved a lot with haskell package installability |
| 2022-06-07 10:08:14 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | sm: I think Athas was talking about cabal's feature of having multiple 'library' blocks in a single .cabal file, one of which is public, the others of which are internal |
| 2022-06-07 10:08:27 +0200 | jinsun | (~jinsun@user/jinsun) |
| 2022-06-07 10:09:33 +0200 | littlebo1eep | (~alMalsamo@gateway/tor-sasl/almalsamo) |
| 2022-06-07 10:10:02 +0200 | jinsun__ | (~jinsun@user/jinsun) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2022-06-07 10:11:04 +0200 | littlebobeep | (~alMalsamo@gateway/tor-sasl/almalsamo) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-06-07 10:11:53 +0200 | <sm> | thanks, probably the same applies there if to a lesser extent ? plus some compatibility issues (stack) |
| 2022-06-07 10:12:39 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | well you can't publish those internal libraries separately |
| 2022-06-07 10:12:51 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | so the "allow independent releases" advantage disappears |
| 2022-06-07 10:14:18 +0200 | vglfr | (~vglfr@coupling.penchant.volia.net) |
| 2022-06-07 10:15:21 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | end-users notice less of it too, but what they do notice is stack incompatibility |
| 2022-06-07 10:16:25 +0200 | zincy | (~zincy@2a01:4c8:1421:61c1:6126:25bb:32f2:d1cd) |
| 2022-06-07 10:17:53 +0200 | <maerwald[m]> | Ah, so it's a great way to break stack |
| 2022-06-07 10:19:09 +0200 | LaoJI | (~LaoJI@103.98.19.56) |
| 2022-06-07 10:19:34 +0200 | azimut | (~azimut@gateway/tor-sasl/azimut) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-06-07 10:19:54 +0200 | <maerwald[m]> | https://github.com/commercialhaskell/stack/issues/5318 |
| 2022-06-07 10:20:12 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | ah, so if they are internal it's fine? |
| 2022-06-07 10:22:02 +0200 | LaoJI | (~LaoJI@103.98.19.56) (Quit: Client closed) |
| 2022-06-07 10:23:42 +0200 | <xdej_> | sm: thank you a lot for your work on hledger-web ! |
| 2022-06-07 10:24:47 +0200 | urdh | (~urdh@user/urdh) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-06-07 10:25:34 +0200 | littlebo1eep | (~alMalsamo@gateway/tor-sasl/almalsamo) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-06-07 10:25:37 +0200 | urdh | (~urdh@user/urdh) |
| 2022-06-07 10:27:05 +0200 | nate3 | (~nate@98.45.169.16) |
| 2022-06-07 10:27:32 +0200 | tessier | (~treed@98.171.210.130) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) |
| 2022-06-07 10:27:45 +0200 | _xor | (~xor@72.49.198.103) |
| 2022-06-07 10:28:27 +0200 | tessier | (~treed@98.171.210.130) |
| 2022-06-07 10:30:45 +0200 | ente | (~daemon@inferno.barfooze.de) |
| 2022-06-07 10:31:47 +0200 | littlebobeep | (~alMalsamo@gateway/tor-sasl/almalsamo) |
| 2022-06-07 10:32:12 +0200 | nate3 | (~nate@98.45.169.16) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2022-06-07 10:33:22 +0200 | tessier | (~treed@98.171.210.130) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2022-06-07 10:35:27 +0200 | ente | (~daemon@inferno.barfooze.de) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-06-07 10:36:54 +0200 | littlebo1eep | (~alMalsamo@gateway/tor-sasl/almalsamo) |
| 2022-06-07 10:38:04 +0200 | littlebobeep | (~alMalsamo@gateway/tor-sasl/almalsamo) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-06-07 10:38:20 +0200 | gehmehgeh | (~user@user/gehmehgeh) |
| 2022-06-07 10:38:33 +0200 | eggplant_ | (~Eggplanta@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:a48b:5f36:2f4:7e9e) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2022-06-07 10:38:55 +0200 | tessier | (~treed@98.171.210.130) |
| 2022-06-07 10:42:02 +0200 | xdej_ | xdej |
| 2022-06-07 10:48:01 +0200 | __monty__ | (~toonn@user/toonn) |
| 2022-06-07 10:49:47 +0200 | Techcable | (~Techcable@user/Techcable) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2022-06-07 10:50:12 +0200 | dyeplexer | (~dyeplexer@user/dyeplexer) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 2022-06-07 10:51:13 +0200 | dyeplexer | (~dyeplexer@user/dyeplexer) |
| 2022-06-07 10:51:59 +0200 | Techcable | (~Techcable@user/Techcable) |
| 2022-06-07 10:55:51 +0200 | coot | (~coot@213.134.190.95) (Quit: coot) |
| 2022-06-07 10:57:33 +0200 | zincy | (~zincy@2a01:4c8:1421:61c1:6126:25bb:32f2:d1cd) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2022-06-07 10:58:14 +0200 | <dragestil> | Is there a cabal new-build command that builds all components in the package, including tests? |
| 2022-06-07 11:00:10 +0200 | dyniec[m] | (~dyniecmat@2001:470:69fc:105::2:a85) (Quit: You have been kicked for being idle) |
| 2022-06-07 11:00:19 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | dragestil: isn't that 'cabal build all' |
| 2022-06-07 11:00:36 +0200 | dyniec[m] | (~dyniecmat@2001:470:69fc:105::2:a85) |
| 2022-06-07 11:01:16 +0200 | <dragestil> | tomsmeding: hmm ok, I tried it but it did not build the test. perhaps this is a difference between build and new-build? |
| 2022-06-07 11:01:24 +0200 | dyniec[m] | (~dyniecmat@2001:470:69fc:105::2:a85) () |
| 2022-06-07 11:02:07 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | dragestil: I'm talking about new-build here, because I'm on cabal >v3 :p |
| 2022-06-07 11:02:23 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | but I think you're righgt |
| 2022-06-07 11:03:22 +0200 | dragestil | wishes the cabal user guide actually documents all commands |
| 2022-06-07 11:03:30 +0200 | Pickchea | (~private@user/pickchea) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-06-07 11:05:01 +0200 | Pickchea | (~private@user/pickchea) |
| 2022-06-07 11:05:36 +0200 | littlebobeep | (~alMalsamo@gateway/tor-sasl/almalsamo) |
| 2022-06-07 11:06:14 +0200 | <dragestil> | iirc the user guide only talks about v1 and v2 but does not say whether new- is an alias, and if so to which v |
| 2022-06-07 11:06:27 +0200 | Kaiepi | (~Kaiepi@156.34.47.253) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-06-07 11:07:04 +0200 | littlebo1eep | (~alMalsamo@gateway/tor-sasl/almalsamo) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-06-07 11:11:24 +0200 | dyeplexer | (~dyeplexer@user/dyeplexer) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2022-06-07 11:11:49 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@c-001-001-001.client.esciencecenter.eduvpn.nl) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) |
| 2022-06-07 11:12:42 +0200 | Ranhir | (~Ranhir@157.97.53.139) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2022-06-07 11:13:20 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | new- is an alias to v2-, and since cabal 3.0 the v2 commands are the default (i.e. alias of the no-prefix commands) |
| 2022-06-07 11:13:25 +0200 | dcoutts | (~duncan@host86-144-78-203.range86-144.btcentralplus.com) |
| 2022-06-07 11:14:50 +0200 | <dragestil> | ok |
| 2022-06-07 11:15:11 +0200 | zincy | (~zincy@2a01:4c8:1421:61c1:bc95:a71d:f43b:c153) |
| 2022-06-07 11:17:04 +0200 | littlebobeep | (~alMalsamo@gateway/tor-sasl/almalsamo) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-06-07 11:24:10 +0200 | pretty_dumm_guy | (trottel@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/prettydummguy/x-88029655) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-06-07 11:25:00 +0200 | chexum | (~quassel@gateway/tor-sasl/chexum) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2022-06-07 11:25:30 +0200 | chexum | (~quassel@gateway/tor-sasl/chexum) |
| 2022-06-07 11:26:11 +0200 | CodeKiwi | DigitalKiwi |
| 2022-06-07 11:26:35 +0200 | Kaiepi | (~Kaiepi@156.34.47.253) |
| 2022-06-07 11:28:22 +0200 | littlebobeep | (~alMalsamo@gateway/tor-sasl/almalsamo) |
| 2022-06-07 11:28:54 +0200 | Me-me | (~me-me@tunnel690570-pt.tunnel.tserv12.mia1.ipv6.he.net) (Changing host) |
| 2022-06-07 11:28:54 +0200 | Me-me | (~me-me@user/me-me) |
| 2022-06-07 11:29:16 +0200 | dyeplexer | (~dyeplexer@user/dyeplexer) |
| 2022-06-07 11:31:21 +0200 | eggplantade | (~Eggplanta@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:a48b:5f36:2f4:7e9e) |
| 2022-06-07 11:32:59 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@c-001-001-001.client.esciencecenter.eduvpn.nl) |
| 2022-06-07 11:35:44 +0200 | eggplantade | (~Eggplanta@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:a48b:5f36:2f4:7e9e) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
| 2022-06-07 11:37:38 +0200 | <Las[m]> | Does anyone know whether something like singletons-generic exists? Don't want to duplicate work as I'm currently working on something like that. |
| 2022-06-07 11:38:02 +0200 | Ranhir | (~Ranhir@157.97.53.139) |
| 2022-06-07 11:45:12 +0200 | zincy | (~zincy@2a01:4c8:1421:61c1:bc95:a71d:f43b:c153) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2022-06-07 11:47:37 +0200 | DNH | (~DNH@2a02:8108:1100:16d8:e92a:ff3d:d8c7:63da) |
| 2022-06-07 11:49:54 +0200 | notzmv | (~zmv@user/notzmv) |
| 2022-06-07 11:52:56 +0200 | money | (~Gambino@user/polo) (Quit: money) |
| 2022-06-07 11:55:14 +0200 | kuribas | (~user@ip-188-118-57-242.reverse.destiny.be) |
| 2022-06-07 11:56:18 +0200 | gurkenglas | (~gurkengla@dslb-084-057-085-111.084.057.pools.vodafone-ip.de) |
| 2022-06-07 11:57:04 +0200 | HotblackDesiato | (~HotblackD@gateway/tor-sasl/hotblackdesiato) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2022-06-07 11:57:57 +0200 | HotblackDesiato | (~HotblackD@gateway/tor-sasl/hotblackdesiato) |
| 2022-06-07 11:59:34 +0200 | littlebobeep | (~alMalsamo@gateway/tor-sasl/almalsamo) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-06-07 12:00:05 +0200 | HotblackDesiato | (~HotblackD@gateway/tor-sasl/hotblackdesiato) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2022-06-07 12:00:10 +0200 | ente | (~daemon@inferno.barfooze.de) |
| 2022-06-07 12:00:30 +0200 | HotblackDesiato | (~HotblackD@gateway/tor-sasl/hotblackdesiato) |
| 2022-06-07 12:02:12 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@c-001-001-001.client.esciencecenter.eduvpn.nl) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 2022-06-07 12:02:48 +0200 | cosimone | (~user@2001:b07:ae5:db26:57c7:21a5:6e1c:6b81) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) |
| 2022-06-07 12:05:11 +0200 | ente | (~daemon@inferno.barfooze.de) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 2022-06-07 12:07:07 +0200 | <sloorush> | Can "Do not use the Haskell development tools provided by Arch, they are broken." as mentioned on https://www.haskell.org/downloads/ also be mentioned on the arch wiki(https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/haskell). It'll save a lot of trouble. |
| 2022-06-07 12:08:03 +0200 | cosimone | (~user@93-44-186-171.ip98.fastwebnet.it) |
| 2022-06-07 12:10:09 +0200 | dyeplexer | (~dyeplexer@user/dyeplexer) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2022-06-07 12:10:14 +0200 | <maerwald[m]> | sloorush: feel free to edit the wiki |
| 2022-06-07 12:11:02 +0200 | littlebobeep | (~alMalsamo@gateway/tor-sasl/almalsamo) |
| 2022-06-07 12:13:50 +0200 | dyeplexer | (~dyeplexer@user/dyeplexer) |
| 2022-06-07 12:15:50 +0200 | xff0x | (~xff0x@s5.HtokyoFL1.vectant.ne.jp) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) |
| 2022-06-07 12:17:14 +0200 | coot | (~coot@213.134.190.95) |
| 2022-06-07 12:18:45 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@c-001-001-001.client.esciencecenter.eduvpn.nl) |
| 2022-06-07 12:18:52 +0200 | <sloorush> | maerwald[m]: Edited! Damn I didn't know wiki pages were so easily editable (: |
| 2022-06-07 12:23:18 +0200 | <Athas> | That is the one thing that makes it a wiki! |
| 2022-06-07 12:23:52 +0200 | money | (~Gambino@user/polo) |
| 2022-06-07 12:24:52 +0200 | frost | (~frost@user/frost) |
| 2022-06-07 12:26:58 +0200 | <yushyin> | sloorush: something similar is already mentioned in the wiki: 'For these reasons, static linking is often the preferred option for local development outside of the package system. If you prefer static linking, see #Static linking or #Alternate installations for details.' but of course not as prominent as your added note |
| 2022-06-07 12:28:48 +0200 | <sloorush> | yushyin: Oh okay! but I'm not sure if this catches the eye of a first-timer. Mentioning it as a note will keep it prominent |
| 2022-06-07 12:34:55 +0200 | BusConscious | (~martin@ip5f5acfd5.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) |
| 2022-06-07 12:42:56 +0200 | <BusConscious> | hello everyone, so I am trying to write a shell interpreter in Haskell, that is as POSIX conform as I can get it to be (very early in the process currently I only have the lexer up and running). |
| 2022-06-07 12:43:34 +0200 | littlebobeep | (~alMalsamo@gateway/tor-sasl/almalsamo) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-06-07 12:45:00 +0200 | <BusConscious> | Next (even before the parser proper) I am trying to tackle word expansion: https://pubs.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/009604499/utilities/xcu_chap02.html#tag_02_06 |
| 2022-06-07 12:45:38 +0200 | littlebobeep | (~alMalsamo@gateway/tor-sasl/almalsamo) |
| 2022-06-07 12:45:48 +0200 | <BusConscious> | The last step is to remove all unquoted " ' and \ that appear in the *original* unexpanded word |
| 2022-06-07 12:47:46 +0200 | <BusConscious> | I don't want to use a whole data structure to store which " ' \ appear in the original word. Instead what I am going to do after field expansion is to escape every " ' \ resulting from a parameter expansion, command substitution or artihmetic expansion using a character, that can never appear in there otherwise |
| 2022-06-07 12:49:10 +0200 | <BusConscious> | (I can't escape using \ because I need to filter out exactly these escape identifiers I have added after step step 2 during pathname expansion in step 3) |
| 2022-06-07 12:50:46 +0200 | <BusConscious> | then in step 4 I will join all of these fields with another character y that can never appear in normal input remove all unquoted \ " ' and the escape character mentinaed up and split up into different fields using y again |
| 2022-06-07 12:51:10 +0200 | raehik | (~raehik@cpc95906-rdng25-2-0-cust156.15-3.cable.virginm.net) |
| 2022-06-07 12:51:16 +0200 | <BusConscious> | Anyways the problem I have is simply this: What characters can I use for that purpose |
| 2022-06-07 12:51:51 +0200 | <BusConscious> | In good ole C I would use 0xFE and 0xFF bytes, which have no meaning in unicode |
| 2022-06-07 12:52:53 +0200 | <BusConscious> | Issue here is, that I can not represent these in Haskell's char type according to doc |
| 2022-06-07 12:53:06 +0200 | <BusConscious> | Are there any other "reserved" unicodes? |
| 2022-06-07 12:54:04 +0200 | <__monty__> | I think I'd split the string into bits that need quote removal and bits that don't through the process. Then in the end compose the list (of lists, potentially) back into a string. |
| 2022-06-07 12:54:30 +0200 | <jackdk> | This is C-programmer thinking, shoe-horning additional information into a data type. I would define a new data type that can be either a character or a literal quote, and if you're worried about performance, look at unpack pragmas, unboxing, whatever else. |
| 2022-06-07 12:55:12 +0200 | <__monty__> | Also, should you even be using a String to represent these? Paths can contain every byte except for NUL so that's already not valid Unicode, no? |
| 2022-06-07 13:01:52 +0200 | <maerwald> | yes |
| 2022-06-07 13:03:05 +0200 | <BusConscious> | __monty__ this would get really ugly because I already have a list of Fields (type synonym of String). Say I do something like this var='" "'; echo hi$var . The word hi$var splits with unset IFS into Fields hi" and " . Then I would have to save for each field what indices were part of the original word and what indices were not. |
| 2022-06-07 13:03:10 +0200 | <BusConscious> | which is just nasty |
| 2022-06-07 13:03:22 +0200 | lortabac | (~lortabac@2a01:e0a:541:b8f0:7f61:118e:9d6b:1e04) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
| 2022-06-07 13:03:28 +0200 | <maerwald> | String is wrong for filepaths |
| 2022-06-07 13:03:29 +0200 | dyeplexer | (~dyeplexer@user/dyeplexer) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
| 2022-06-07 13:03:35 +0200 | <BusConscious> | so much easier with these special escape sequences |
| 2022-06-07 13:04:13 +0200 | <BusConscious> | remember I'm removing these quotes using Parsec |
| 2022-06-07 13:04:34 +0200 | lortabac | (~lortabac@2a01:e0a:541:b8f0:77b3:5a9d:c274:ac8) |
| 2022-06-07 13:06:04 +0200 | xff0x | (~xff0x@b133147.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp) |
| 2022-06-07 13:06:38 +0200 | dyeplexer | (~dyeplexer@user/dyeplexer) |
| 2022-06-07 13:08:34 +0200 | littlebobeep | (~alMalsamo@gateway/tor-sasl/almalsamo) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-06-07 13:08:42 +0200 | <BusConscious> | So the solution is to have Field be a Data.ByteString synonym? |
| 2022-06-07 13:10:02 +0200 | <BusConscious> | but then I would have to expect, that there are files with 0xFE and 0xFF bytes in them aah |
| 2022-06-07 13:10:11 +0200 | <BusConscious> | this is making things even worse |
| 2022-06-07 13:10:34 +0200 | <sm> | xdej_: 👍🏻 |
| 2022-06-07 13:10:50 +0200 | frost | (~frost@user/frost) (Quit: Client closed) |
| 2022-06-07 13:10:53 +0200 | <BusConscious> | maybe I could use double NUL to join the fields into one string and single NUL to escape characters |
| 2022-06-07 13:11:54 +0200 | <__monty__> | At this point I think a rethinking of your datastructure is in order. |
| 2022-06-07 13:12:18 +0200 | <__monty__> | Probably already worth treating as an AST at this point. |
| 2022-06-07 13:14:29 +0200 | <BusConscious> | thank you for your advice, but I'm sorry to tell you, that I will not adhere to any of it :P |
| 2022-06-07 13:15:19 +0200 | ente | (~daemon@inferno.barfooze.de) |
| 2022-06-07 13:16:37 +0200 | <__monty__> | That's ok. At some points in life the path of suffering is the right choice. |
| 2022-06-07 13:17:55 +0200 | <BusConscious> | saving which " ' / were originally part of the word and which ones weren't would just blow up my code in size, decrease maintability and also slow it down(though this is of least concern) |
| 2022-06-07 13:18:44 +0200 | <BusConscious> | this is also kind of different to an AST in that all of these word expansions happen at runtime |
| 2022-06-07 13:19:18 +0200 | <__monty__> | AST and run-time are orthogonal concepts. |
| 2022-06-07 13:19:21 +0200 | sympt3 | (~sympt@user/sympt) |
| 2022-06-07 13:19:40 +0200 | littlebobeep | (~alMalsamo@gateway/tor-sasl/almalsamo) |
| 2022-06-07 13:19:50 +0200 | lyle | (~lyle@104.246.145.85) |
| 2022-06-07 13:20:09 +0200 | <BusConscious> | Finally while a pathname can contain any bytes, I will assume that it does not contain NUL bytes and is in unicode. |
| 2022-06-07 13:20:21 +0200 | <__monty__> | And I don't see how a complex system of escapes on top of escapes is more maintainable than a more suitable data structure. But you are free to do as you wish. |
| 2022-06-07 13:20:24 +0200 | <BusConscious> | Or else I'm going crazy |
| 2022-06-07 13:20:40 +0200 | <__monty__> | Paths can't contain NUL bytes. But that's the only byte that's not allowed. |
| 2022-06-07 13:20:47 +0200 | sympt | (~sympt@user/sympt) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2022-06-07 13:20:47 +0200 | sympt3 | sympt |
| 2022-06-07 13:21:22 +0200 | <__monty__> | And I seem to recall on Windows they're WTF-16, which isn't quite a Unicode encoding. |
| 2022-06-07 13:24:40 +0200 | <maerwald> | __monty__: UCS-2 |
| 2022-06-07 13:25:25 +0200 | <maerwald> | but you can reasonably assume UTF-16 on windows |
| 2022-06-07 13:25:38 +0200 | <BusConscious> | I want to reuse some of the code for my lexer and that is written as Parsec.Char, because the input of the shell is unicode for sure. So I will just use String for now and not some ByteString |
| 2022-06-07 13:25:56 +0200 | <maerwald> | that's not really posix compatible |
| 2022-06-07 13:26:10 +0200 | <maerwald> | posix very clearly says that filepaths are not unicode |
| 2022-06-07 13:26:26 +0200 | <maerwald> | *not necessarily |
| 2022-06-07 13:27:05 +0200 | <maerwald> | there's a recommendation to use the portable file character set, but that's just... a recommendation |
| 2022-06-07 13:29:14 +0200 | <BusConscious> | I mean I could always change my code later, so that Field is a Data.ByteString synonym |
| 2022-06-07 13:29:33 +0200 | <BusConscious> | But the first version of my shell is not going to be POSIX compatible no matter what |
| 2022-06-07 13:29:56 +0200 | <BusConscious> | I think I will not even implement pathname expansion in the near future |
| 2022-06-07 13:30:03 +0200 | <BusConscious> | so why add this complexity? |
| 2022-06-07 13:31:53 +0200 | <__monty__> | There's a difference between necessary and unnecessary complexity. |
| 2022-06-07 13:32:00 +0200 | econo | (uid147250@user/econo) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) |
| 2022-06-07 13:32:30 +0200 | <BusConscious> | you have to pick your fights and make reasonable compromises. Can't go from 0 to POSIX compatible in one go |
| 2022-06-07 13:32:52 +0200 | <BusConscious> | A15:26 < maerwald> posix very clearly says that filepaths are not unicode |
| 2022-06-07 13:32:58 +0200 | <BusConscious> | oops |
| 2022-06-07 13:33:13 +0200 | eggplantade | (~Eggplanta@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:a48b:5f36:2f4:7e9e) |
| 2022-06-07 13:33:38 +0200 | <__monty__> | Ok, consider this, why are you so reluctant to make the changes now, rather than later? |
| 2022-06-07 13:33:59 +0200 | frost | (~frost@user/frost) |
| 2022-06-07 13:34:04 +0200 | littlebobeep | (~alMalsamo@gateway/tor-sasl/almalsamo) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-06-07 13:34:30 +0200 | <maerwald> | BusConscious: you can use PosixFilePath from this release candidate: https://hackage.haskell.org/package/filepath-2.0.0.0/candidate/docs/System-AbstractFilePath-Posix.… |
| 2022-06-07 13:37:27 +0200 | eggplantade | (~Eggplanta@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:a48b:5f36:2f4:7e9e) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-06-07 13:38:31 +0200 | <BusConscious> | Also re suitable data structure. I really only have to mark certain characters so they don't get removed when removing all quotation marks, that appeared in the original word. I'm open to suggestions but escape sequences are very easy to handle when parsing. Complex data structures describing the string to parse are not so nice to handle. |
| 2022-06-07 13:38:59 +0200 | <BusConscious> | I will absolutely do that with double NUL and NUL escapes |
| 2022-06-07 13:39:42 +0200 | <BusConscious> | Re the Field type I will maybe switch to something like ByteString later and make a TODO remark |
| 2022-06-07 13:40:07 +0200 | <BusConscious> | maerwald: A field does not have to necessarily contain a FilePath |
| 2022-06-07 13:40:49 +0200 | <maerwald> | BusConscious: PosixFilePath is just a type synonym to PosixString |
| 2022-06-07 13:44:19 +0200 | money | (~Gambino@user/polo) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2022-06-07 13:45:04 +0200 | money | (~Gambino@user/polo) |
| 2022-06-07 13:45:50 +0200 | littlebobeep | (~alMalsamo@gateway/tor-sasl/almalsamo) |
| 2022-06-07 13:47:07 +0200 | alp | (~alp@user/alp) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-06-07 13:47:58 +0200 | money | (~Gambino@user/polo) (Client Quit) |
| 2022-06-07 13:48:12 +0200 | calleum_ | (~calleum@user/calleum) |
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| 2022-06-07 13:58:35 +0200 | bitdex | (~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex) (Quit: = "") |
| 2022-06-07 14:04:04 +0200 | littlebobeep | (~alMalsamo@gateway/tor-sasl/almalsamo) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
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| 2022-06-07 14:15:54 +0200 | Unicorn_Princess | (~Unicorn_P@93-103-228-248.dynamic.t-2.net) (Remote host closed the connection) |
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| 2022-06-07 14:22:06 +0200 | dcoutts_ | (~duncan@host86-144-78-203.range86-144.btcentralplus.com) |
| 2022-06-07 14:26:42 +0200 | jao | (~jao@cpc103048-sgyl39-2-0-cust502.18-2.cable.virginm.net) |
| 2022-06-07 14:28:35 +0200 | nate3 | (~nate@98.45.169.16) |
| 2022-06-07 14:32:06 +0200 | dyeplexer | (~dyeplexer@user/dyeplexer) |
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| 2022-06-07 14:35:24 +0200 | coot | (~coot@213.134.190.95) (Quit: coot) |
| 2022-06-07 14:43:10 +0200 | causal | (~user@50.35.83.177) (Quit: WeeChat 3.5) |
| 2022-06-07 14:43:43 +0200 | unit73e | (~emanuel@2001:818:e8dd:7c00:32b5:c2ff:fe6b:5291) |
| 2022-06-07 14:43:55 +0200 | money | (~Gambino@user/polo) |
| 2022-06-07 14:44:04 +0200 | noteness | (~noteness@user/noteness) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-06-07 14:44:10 +0200 | money | (~Gambino@user/polo) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2022-06-07 14:44:42 +0200 | money | (~Gambino@user/polo) |
| 2022-06-07 14:46:05 +0200 | money | (~Gambino@user/polo) (Client Quit) |
| 2022-06-07 14:47:49 +0200 | jonathanx | (~jonathan@94.234.52.133) |
| 2022-06-07 14:49:40 +0200 | acidjnk_new | (~acidjnk@p200300d0c7068b707c47e4f6eb00087c.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2022-06-07 14:51:58 +0200 | acidjnk_new | (~acidjnk@p200300d0c7068b7031de7ac5fad117ed.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 2022-06-07 14:54:55 +0200 | AlexNoo_ | AlexNoo |
| 2022-06-07 14:58:36 +0200 | dzdcnfzd | (~dzdcnfzd@pool-108-54-250-165.nycmny.fios.verizon.net) |
| 2022-06-07 14:59:19 +0200 | waleee | (~waleee@2001:9b0:213:7200:cc36:a556:b1e8:b340) |
| 2022-06-07 15:00:22 +0200 | <dzdcnfzd> | I'm trying to migrate a project I've written with Stack to Nix. The reason I'm migrating is that I was advised that doing so would make compiling with GHCJS easier. I have no experience with either GHCJS or Nix, and now I'm trying to figure out what the best way is to conduct the migration |
| 2022-06-07 15:00:39 +0200 | <maerwald> | xD |
| 2022-06-07 15:00:49 +0200 | jinsun__ | (~jinsun@user/jinsun) |
| 2022-06-07 15:00:51 +0200 | mattil | (~mattil@helsinki.portalify.com) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2022-06-07 15:00:59 +0200 | <dzdcnfzd> | It seems like there are a lot of different techniques for doing Haskell package management on Nix. Is anyone the clear modern leading candidate? |
| 2022-06-07 15:01:24 +0200 | mestre | (~mestre@191.177.181.194) |
| 2022-06-07 15:02:34 +0200 | littlebobeep | (~alMalsamo@gateway/tor-sasl/almalsamo) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-06-07 15:02:44 +0200 | jonathanx | (~jonathan@94.234.52.133) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
| 2022-06-07 15:02:57 +0200 | jinsun | (~jinsun@user/jinsun) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 2022-06-07 15:03:35 +0200 | <dzdcnfzd> | I'm particularly interested in how I can turn an existing cabal file into a nix setup, including solving the library version inequalities. |
| 2022-06-07 15:03:56 +0200 | coot | (~coot@213.134.190.95) |
| 2022-06-07 15:06:31 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@c-001-001-001.client.esciencecenter.eduvpn.nl) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 2022-06-07 15:07:09 +0200 | jinsun | (~jinsun@user/jinsun) |
| 2022-06-07 15:08:47 +0200 | jinsun__ | (~jinsun@user/jinsun) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 2022-06-07 15:10:09 +0200 | <aforemny> | dzdcnfzd: there is cabal2nix which can turn a .cabal file into a nix expression that you can import into a development environment |
| 2022-06-07 15:10:26 +0200 | <aforemny> | dzdcnfzd: https://haskell4nix.readthedocs.io/nixpkgs-users-guide.html#how-to-build-a-stand-alone-project |
| 2022-06-07 15:11:21 +0200 | <dzdcnfzd> | aforemny: will that handle resolving deps and getting matching package versions? |
| 2022-06-07 15:11:26 +0200 | <aforemny> | dzdcnfzd: there are helpers that do that automatically (ie. skip the cabal2nix step), but as that is not documented on the official documentation above and you are just starting out, I would just call cabal2nix for now |
| 2022-06-07 15:11:27 +0200 | unit73e | (~emanuel@2001:818:e8dd:7c00:32b5:c2ff:fe6b:5291) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-06-07 15:11:40 +0200 | <tdammers> | IME, the most viable way of using Nix is to bug someone who knows Nix to do it for you |
| 2022-06-07 15:11:52 +0200 | <geekosaur> | :) |
| 2022-06-07 15:12:25 +0200 | <dzdcnfzd> | tdammers: What's weird is that all the nix doc I've read seems relatively straightforward, but everyone recommends a totally different solution |
| 2022-06-07 15:12:42 +0200 | <aforemny> | dzdcnfzd: cabal dependency resolution in Nixpkgs is quite limited: everything is resolved against the current curated package set and you get a warning if that resolution does not match the one cabal specifies |
| 2022-06-07 15:12:49 +0200 | noteness | (~noteness@user/noteness) |
| 2022-06-07 15:13:21 +0200 | <dzdcnfzd> | aforemny: Wait, meaning nixpkgs only contains one version per library? |
| 2022-06-07 15:13:33 +0200 | <tdammers> | dzdcnfzd: my experience with nix docs is that they tend to leave me more confused than before, and the moment I think I understand something and try to come up with a solution myself, things go pear-shaped |
| 2022-06-07 15:13:36 +0200 | <aforemny> | dzdcnfzd: that curated package set specifies multiple versions for some libraries which you might be able to explicitly use if your project requires that |
| 2022-06-07 15:14:17 +0200 | <aforemny> | dzdcnfzd: basically yes, per supported ghc version there is only one library version. there are exceptions: the more popular a library is, the greater the chance there are multiple versions because other packages depend on that |
| 2022-06-07 15:15:13 +0200 | <aforemny> | dzdcnfzd: before you invest a lot of time into porting your project to Nix in order to get set up with GHCJS i personally would verify the claim that Nix gets you a GHCJS easily |
| 2022-06-07 15:15:52 +0200 | <dzdcnfzd> | I think I'm confused at a basic level: my .cabal file has package version inequalities specified. Up until now, I've been using stack to solve those inequalities, find a matching set of package versions, download those versions, and then build. I think stack might use cabal to do the version inequality solving under the hood, but I'm not sure. |
| 2022-06-07 15:15:57 +0200 | shriekingnoise | (~shrieking@201.231.16.156) |
| 2022-06-07 15:16:01 +0200 | <dzdcnfzd> | With Nix, what's the equivalent? |
| 2022-06-07 15:16:13 +0200 | <tdammers> | I think the main problem with GHCJS isn't so much getting a working compiler (I believe you can just download binaries), but doing package management without going crazy |
| 2022-06-07 15:17:03 +0200 | <aforemny> | with Nix you either want to keep your project up to date in terms of libraries, that cabal is OK resolving dependencies against the current curated set of libraries offered by Nixpkgs. there is no dependency resolution in the sense that cabal does |
| 2022-06-07 15:17:08 +0200 | jinsun__ | (~jinsun@user/jinsun) |
| 2022-06-07 15:17:23 +0200 | dyeplexer | (~dyeplexer@user/dyeplexer) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2022-06-07 15:17:24 +0200 | <geekosaur> | dzdcnfzd, stack uses the Cabal library but not cabal-install the program |
| 2022-06-07 15:17:25 +0200 | <aforemny> | or, you want to overlay the specific library versions into the curated package set yourself so that they match what cabal expects |
| 2022-06-07 15:17:30 +0200 | <aforemny> | in reality, it is usually a mix of both |
| 2022-06-07 15:18:11 +0200 | <aforemny> | maybe you are looking for the alternative Nix haskell infrastructure haskell.nix which does what you expect it to do (ie. resolve the specific dependencies for your project) |
| 2022-06-07 15:18:17 +0200 | jinsun__ | (~jinsun@user/jinsun) (Client Quit) |
| 2022-06-07 15:18:45 +0200 | jinsun__ | (~jinsun@user/jinsun) |
| 2022-06-07 15:19:08 +0200 | <aforemny> | i don't know how well supported GHCJS is in either infrastructures (standalone Nixpkgs, or Nixpkgs + haskell.nix) |
| 2022-06-07 15:19:19 +0200 | noteness | (~noteness@user/noteness) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2022-06-07 15:19:58 +0200 | [itchyjunk] | (~itchyjunk@user/itchyjunk/x-7353470) |
| 2022-06-07 15:21:09 +0200 | jinsun | (~jinsun@user/jinsun) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 2022-06-07 15:21:20 +0200 | <dzdcnfzd> | Okay, so just to be sure I understand, my options are: 1. I use the latest version of every library packaged in some curated nix package (which I think comes bundled with a ghc version?), 2. I do 1, but I overlay specific haskell packages into the bundled GHC, or 3. I use something called haskell.nix, which solves my version inequalities, gets a |
| 2022-06-07 15:21:21 +0200 | <dzdcnfzd> | ghc (that I specify?) and builds an env on that basis |
| 2022-06-07 15:21:37 +0200 | <dzdcnfzd> | Is that right? |
| 2022-06-07 15:22:34 +0200 | noteness | (~noteness@user/noteness) |
| 2022-06-07 15:22:54 +0200 | <aforemny> | yes |
| 2022-06-07 15:23:24 +0200 | <dzdcnfzd> | Which one of these solutions does cabal2nix fit into? |
| 2022-06-07 15:24:14 +0200 | <aforemny> | cabal2nix is for solutions 1 + 2, to overlay the curated package set with either a library in a version unavailable, or your own cabal project (which likely is not available in the curated package set in any version) |
| 2022-06-07 15:24:54 +0200 | <aforemny> | it just turns a .cabal file into a .nix file. it drops version ranges of dependencies in the process |
| 2022-06-07 15:25:27 +0200 | <dzdcnfzd> | If it drops version ranges how does it get unavailable versions? |
| 2022-06-07 15:25:56 +0200 | <dzdcnfzd> | Or, by "drops version ranges" do you mean that it replaces ranges with specific versions |
| 2022-06-07 15:26:56 +0200 | <aforemny> | dzdcnfzd: right! although it really drops the version range by only referring to the dependency by name, and then that name resolves against a version of the library wrt. the curated package set offered by Nixpkgs |
| 2022-06-07 15:27:49 +0200 | <aforemny> | you have at some point the option to tell Nix that library A uses library B in version X instead of the default version. but that is a manual thing |
| 2022-06-07 15:27:49 +0200 | <dzdcnfzd> | "the curated package set offered by Nixpkgs" WITH my overlays on top, right? |
| 2022-06-07 15:27:59 +0200 | <aforemny> | yes, right |
| 2022-06-07 15:28:04 +0200 | <dzdcnfzd> | Okay |
| 2022-06-07 15:28:19 +0200 | <dzdcnfzd> | This is great, thanks so much |
| 2022-06-07 15:28:29 +0200 | <dzdcnfzd> | I've been super confused about all this |
| 2022-06-07 15:28:35 +0200 | <dzdcnfzd> | One more question (inshallah) |
| 2022-06-07 15:29:44 +0200 | <dzdcnfzd> | Does cabal2nix do the solving of package version inequalities automatically, or do I have to do the solving manually and then pass in the versions I need? |
| 2022-06-07 15:30:14 +0200 | jinsun__ | (~jinsun@user/jinsun) () |
| 2022-06-07 15:30:28 +0200 | <dzdcnfzd> | And also, I guess, do I have to download these versions myself, or am I looking for them in Nixpkgs? |
| 2022-06-07 15:30:47 +0200 | <aforemny> | you have to do it manually, cabal2nix literally drops version information and assumes you refer to the default/ most recent version of that library in Nixpkgs |
| 2022-06-07 15:30:49 +0200 | jinsun | (~jinsun@user/jinsun) |
| 2022-06-07 15:31:53 +0200 | <dzdcnfzd> | Okay. Super useful. |
| 2022-06-07 15:32:10 +0200 | Pickchea | (~private@user/pickchea) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
| 2022-06-07 15:32:29 +0200 | <aforemny> | i don't understand your second question: for the versions of libraries not available in Nixpkgs you will have to provide a Nix recipe for them via cabal2nix |
| 2022-06-07 15:32:40 +0200 | <aforemny> | but with that recipe, Nix will handling downloading the source and building the library for you |
| 2022-06-07 15:32:46 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@c-001-001-001.client.esciencecenter.eduvpn.nl) |
| 2022-06-07 15:33:11 +0200 | <dzdcnfzd> | Okay. I'll try to work it out and I might have smarter questions once I've done that |
| 2022-06-07 15:34:12 +0200 | <aforemny> | dzdcnfzd: https://haskell4nix.readthedocs.io/nixpkgs-users-guide.html#how-to-create-nix-builds-for-your-own-… this should be exactly what you want to read right now, i guess |
| 2022-06-07 15:34:34 +0200 | <dzdcnfzd> | kk. Thanks for all the info! |
| 2022-06-07 15:34:36 +0200 | <aforemny> | i do think you can skip the previous sections, but i am not 100% sure |
| 2022-06-07 15:35:00 +0200 | eggplantade | (~Eggplanta@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:a48b:5f36:2f4:7e9e) |
| 2022-06-07 15:35:28 +0200 | liz_ | (~liz@host86-159-158-175.range86-159.btcentralplus.com) |
| 2022-06-07 15:35:51 +0200 | <aforemny> | dzdcnfzd: and once you are comfortable with what's described there, i would look into abstracting the manual cabal2nix step as described here https://bytes.zone/posts/callcabal2nix/ |
| 2022-06-07 15:36:29 +0200 | dsrt^ | (~dsrt@c-24-131-46-83.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) |
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| 2022-06-07 16:43:41 +0200 | whatsupdoc_ | (uid509081@id-509081.hampstead.irccloud.com) |
| 2022-06-07 16:44:10 +0200 | Pickchea | (~private@user/pickchea) |
| 2022-06-07 16:47:28 +0200 | Sgeo | (~Sgeo@user/sgeo) |
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| 2022-06-07 17:03:52 +0200 | eggplantade | (~Eggplanta@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:a48b:5f36:2f4:7e9e) |
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| 2022-06-07 17:05:09 +0200 | dzdcnfzd | (~dzdcnfzd@pool-108-54-250-165.nycmny.fios.verizon.net) (Quit: Client closed) |
| 2022-06-07 17:09:17 +0200 | Ram-Z | (~Ram-Z@li1814-254.members.linode.com) |
| 2022-06-07 17:11:04 +0200 | CiaoSen | (~Jura@p5dcc0172.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
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| 2022-06-07 17:18:18 +0200 | noteness | (~noteness@user/noteness) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2022-06-07 17:20:41 +0200 | noteness | (~noteness@user/noteness) |
| 2022-06-07 17:23:35 +0200 | lortabac | (~lortabac@2a01:e0a:541:b8f0:77b3:5a9d:c274:ac8) (Quit: WeeChat 2.8) |
| 2022-06-07 17:27:16 +0200 | _73 | (~user@pool-173-76-102-248.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) |
| 2022-06-07 17:28:41 +0200 | yrlnry | (~yrlnry@pool-108-2-150-109.phlapa.fios.verizon.net) |
| 2022-06-07 17:31:12 +0200 | sebastiandb_ | (~sebastian@pool-108-18-101-17.washdc.fios.verizon.net) |
| 2022-06-07 17:34:40 +0200 | <yrlnry> | Is there a standard jargon term for a variable that holds a value, as opposed to a type variable? People don't say "value variable", do they? |
| 2022-06-07 17:35:40 +0200 | <geekosaur> | generally it's just "variable" |
| 2022-06-07 17:35:45 +0200 | <c_wraith> | not that I can recall hearing. I think it's just the assumption if you say "variable" without providing further context to suggest you mean a type variable. |
| 2022-06-07 17:35:50 +0200 | <geekosaur> | sometimes "value-level variable" |
| 2022-06-07 17:36:26 +0200 | <yrlnry> | Thanks. I recently had to say to someone "It's a little unfortunate that your example uses s1 as the name of a value variable when my question used it as the name of a type variable." Is there a more elegant way to express this? |
| 2022-06-07 17:37:14 +0200 | <maerwald> | kind-level variable |
| 2022-06-07 17:37:29 +0200 | <kuribas> | I say "value level variable". |
| 2022-06-07 17:37:31 +0200 | <c_wraith> | in that context, it sounds perfectly fine |
| 2022-06-07 17:37:34 +0200 | <maerwald> | wasn't there something after kinds? |
| 2022-06-07 17:37:40 +0200 | <c_wraith> | sorts |
| 2022-06-07 17:37:42 +0200 | <maerwald> | right |
| 2022-06-07 17:37:45 +0200 | <c_wraith> | but it all got collapsed |
| 2022-06-07 17:38:04 +0200 | FinnElija | (~finn_elij@user/finn-elija/x-0085643) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-06-07 17:38:27 +0200 | raym | (~raym@user/raym) (Quit: rebooting... nvidia driver update!) |
| 2022-06-07 17:38:29 +0200 | <yrlnry> | I used to hang out here a lot, but it has been many years. I would like to avoid faux pas. Is there something I should read? I found https://wiki.haskell.org/IRC_channel . |
| 2022-06-07 17:38:46 +0200 | <geekosaur> | I don't think there's anything more recent than that |
| 2022-06-07 17:39:33 +0200 | <yrlnry> | It just says to be nice, which is what I remember from last time. I can do that! |
| 2022-06-07 17:39:35 +0200 | FinnElija | (~finn_elij@user/finn-elija/x-0085643) |
| 2022-06-07 17:40:42 +0200 | raym | (~raym@user/raym) |
| 2022-06-07 17:41:47 +0200 | <geekosaur> | someone will remind you nicely, anyway. we're moderators, not imperators |
| 2022-06-07 17:42:23 +0200 | <yrlnry> | The Report calls them "tyvar" and "varid", which does not seem perspicuous. |
| 2022-06-07 17:43:21 +0200 | pavonia | (~user@user/siracusa) (Quit: Bye!) |
| 2022-06-07 17:43:59 +0200 | <yrlnry> | I mean, it's fine in the context of the Report, but wouldn't have worked well in my context." |
| 2022-06-07 17:46:44 +0200 | _ht | (~quassel@231-169-21-31.ftth.glasoperator.nl) |
| 2022-06-07 17:51:19 +0200 | azimut | (~azimut@gateway/tor-sasl/azimut) |
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| 2022-06-07 17:54:44 +0200 | kuribas | (~user@ip-188-118-57-242.reverse.destiny.be) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2022-06-07 17:55:03 +0200 | yrlnry | (~yrlnry@pool-108-2-150-109.phlapa.fios.verizon.net) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2022-06-07 17:56:11 +0200 | odnes | (~odnes@5-203-158-63.pat.nym.cosmote.net) |
| 2022-06-07 17:58:39 +0200 | Pickchea | (~private@user/pickchea) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-06-07 18:06:44 +0200 | [_] | (~itchyjunk@user/itchyjunk/x-7353470) |
| 2022-06-07 18:06:58 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | tyvar I could see used as an abbreviation in other contexts, but varid is super specific to the report |
| 2022-06-07 18:07:04 +0200 | gdown | (~gavin@h69-11-149-231.kndrid.broadband.dynamic.tds.net) |
| 2022-06-07 18:07:07 +0200 | [itchyjunk] | (~itchyjunk@user/itchyjunk/x-7353470) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2022-06-07 18:07:09 +0200 | [_] | [itchyjunk] |
| 2022-06-07 18:07:35 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | also the word "identifier" in "VARiable IDentifier" is really compiler jargon; a programmer thinks in terms of variables, not identifiers |
| 2022-06-07 18:07:41 +0200 | <geekosaur> | varid is to distinguish from conid; neither is real useful without context |
| 2022-06-07 18:08:19 +0200 | <geekosaur> | (CONstructor IDentifier) |
| 2022-06-07 18:09:30 +0200 | eggplantade | (~Eggplanta@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:a48b:5f36:2f4:7e9e) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2022-06-07 18:09:37 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | also it's a lexical term, whereas "variable" is a semantic thing |
| 2022-06-07 18:09:47 +0200 | titibandit | (~titibandi@2a00:8a60:c000:1:8a13:bf74:b2:8d47) (Quit: Leaving.) |
| 2022-06-07 18:09:52 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | I would bet there is also tyvarid |
| 2022-06-07 18:10:19 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | ah no |
| 2022-06-07 18:10:27 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | oh but 'tyvar -> varid' lol |
| 2022-06-07 18:10:36 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | so varid is actually the wrong term here |
| 2022-06-07 18:11:20 +0200 | <geekosaur> | yeh, I don't think the Report distinguishes beyond that because in Report Haskell tyvars and regular vars live in distinct worlds |
| 2022-06-07 18:11:45 +0200 | yrlnry | (~yrlnry@pool-108-2-150-109.phlapa.fios.verizon.net) |
| 2022-06-07 18:13:14 +0200 | wonko | (~wjc@2a0e:1c80:2::130) |
| 2022-06-07 18:15:37 +0200 | slack1256 | (~slack1256@191.126.99.72) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2022-06-07 18:23:50 +0200 | Midjak | (~Midjak@82.66.147.146) |
| 2022-06-07 18:30:05 +0200 | nate3 | (~nate@98.45.169.16) |
| 2022-06-07 18:30:23 +0200 | Pickchea | (~private@user/pickchea) |
| 2022-06-07 18:32:29 +0200 | whatsupdoc_ | whatsupdoc |
| 2022-06-07 18:33:47 +0200 | acidjnk_new | (~acidjnk@p200300d0c7068b7031de7ac5fad117ed.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-06-07 18:34:47 +0200 | nate3 | (~nate@98.45.169.16) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-06-07 18:36:05 +0200 | eggplantade | (~Eggplanta@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:a48b:5f36:2f4:7e9e) |
| 2022-06-07 18:45:04 +0200 | <raehik> | I'm playing around with barbies (the lib) a bit. There's functionality to essentially go from Identity a -> a for every field in a type. In general, does that sort of function "get deleted"/have zero cost at runtime? |
| 2022-06-07 18:45:57 +0200 | <raehik> | maybe clearer, does stripping off or putting on a newtype wrapper ever cost anything? |
| 2022-06-07 18:46:30 +0200 | <geekosaur> | there's a corner case where it does, but you can use Data.Coerce.coerce to get around it |
| 2022-06-07 18:46:40 +0200 | cfricke | (~cfricke@user/cfricke) (Quit: WeeChat 3.5) |
| 2022-06-07 18:46:52 +0200 | <geekosaur> | but that said, isn't that kind of stripping normlaly done with a type family such that the wrapper disappears completely? |
| 2022-06-07 18:47:45 +0200 | <raehik> | that's right, barbies does that. I have some similar work that uses type families to avoid ever even using a wrapper, and thinking about how to reconcile it with barbies |
| 2022-06-07 18:49:09 +0200 | <raehik> | I think I'll have 2 "identity" functors which can have their wrappers stripped, so there would be a lot of `map getX` going around -- wanted assurance that I wouldn't be smashing my performance xd |
| 2022-06-07 18:49:15 +0200 | <geekosaur> | (the corner case I mentioned is that ghc isn't smart enough to recognize that something like mapM on a list/Foldable that removes such wrapper does nothing, and iterates doing id) |
| 2022-06-07 18:49:57 +0200 | <raehik> | ahhh interesting thank you. will that happen for regular map? don't think monadic map will be so common |
| 2022-06-07 18:50:21 +0200 | <geekosaur> | still happens for regular map, yes |
| 2022-06-07 18:50:45 +0200 | <geekosaur> | or fold, etc. but in those cases it's more likely to actually be doing something useful instead of id |
| 2022-06-07 18:50:53 +0200 | <raehik> | thanks, I'll keep that in mind |
| 2022-06-07 18:51:17 +0200 | <raehik> | oh and coerce is type safe isn't it |
| 2022-06-07 18:51:22 +0200 | <geekosaur> | yes |
| 2022-06-07 18:51:27 +0200 | <geekosaur> | enforced by the typechecker |
| 2022-06-07 18:51:37 +0200 | <raehik> | course, that might help. thanks |
| 2022-06-07 18:51:45 +0200 | wonko | (~wjc@2a0e:1c80:2::130) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2022-06-07 18:53:44 +0200 | <yrlnry> | Suppose I have a function fn that does something with an `f a`, where `f` is a functor and `a` is an Ord. I want to make a version of fn that "does the same but in reverse". |
| 2022-06-07 18:54:10 +0200 | tzh | (~tzh@c-24-21-73-154.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 2022-06-07 18:54:18 +0200 | <yrlnry> | Hold that thought. |
| 2022-06-07 18:56:17 +0200 | <yrlnry> | Right, so I thought maybe I could write `backwards = getDown . fn . fmap Down`. The idea is that `fmap Down` will produce an `f b` where `b` is still an Ord, so `fn` ought to work on it. |
| 2022-06-07 18:58:14 +0200 | <geekosaur> | I think that'll work, yes |
| 2022-06-07 18:58:15 +0200 | <yrlnry> | But GHC says that `fn` must have the type `(f0 (Down a) -> Down c) -> (f0 a -> c)` |
| 2022-06-07 18:58:48 +0200 | <geekosaur> | mm, right |
| 2022-06-07 18:58:50 +0200 | <yrlnry> | Oh, that's okay though, I can still pass a function with a more general type `(f0 a -> c)`. |
| 2022-06-07 19:00:24 +0200 | <geekosaur> | mrrr. should still be a Functor |
| 2022-06-07 19:00:54 +0200 | <yrlnry> | Something still not quite right though. GHC will compile it if I declare the type of `backwards` as `(f b -> f b) -> (f a -> f a)` but not if I declare it as `(f a -> f a) -> (f a -> f a)` |
| 2022-06-07 19:00:55 +0200 | <brettgilio> | https://joy.swlkr.com/ |
| 2022-06-07 19:01:26 +0200 | <yrlnry> | But there's some sort of constraint in the types that isn't reflected in that declaration, which is that `rev fn` actually has the same type as `fn` did. |
| 2022-06-07 19:01:34 +0200 | <brettgilio> | woops |
| 2022-06-07 19:01:35 +0200 | <brettgilio> | wrong channel |
| 2022-06-07 19:02:21 +0200 | <geekosaur> | yrlnry, that smells like an extra Functor constraint |
| 2022-06-07 19:03:31 +0200 | <yrlnry> | I was wrong about the `(f b -> f b) -> (f a -> f a)` working; I had rthe declaration commented out when I ran the compiler :( |
| 2022-06-07 19:04:02 +0200 | <geekosaur> | ok, so much for that |
| 2022-06-07 19:04:15 +0200 | wonko | (~wjc@2a0e:1c80:11::50) |
| 2022-06-07 19:04:43 +0200 | Unicorn_Princess | (~Unicorn_P@93-103-228-248.dynamic.t-2.net) |
| 2022-06-07 19:06:42 +0200 | <telser_> | Does anyone know where stack puts the source when it clones an extra dep specified via git |
| 2022-06-07 19:07:51 +0200 | <[Leary]> | @let backwards f = fmap getDown . f . fmap Down |
| 2022-06-07 19:07:52 +0200 | <lambdabot> | /sandbox/tmp/.L.hs:160:1: error: [-Woverlapping-patterns, -Werror=overlappin... |
| 2022-06-07 19:07:53 +0200 | <lambdabot> | Pattern match is redundant |
| 2022-06-07 19:07:53 +0200 | <lambdabot> | In an equation for ‘backwards’: backwards f = ... |
| 2022-06-07 19:08:00 +0200 | <[Leary]> | err |
| 2022-06-07 19:08:04 +0200 | <[Leary]> | @undef |
| 2022-06-07 19:08:04 +0200 | <lambdabot> | Undefined. |
| 2022-06-07 19:08:07 +0200 | <[Leary]> | @let backwards f = fmap getDown . f . fmap Down |
| 2022-06-07 19:08:08 +0200 | <lambdabot> | Defined. |
| 2022-06-07 19:08:16 +0200 | <[Leary]> | > sort `L.backwards` [1..10] |
| 2022-06-07 19:08:18 +0200 | <lambdabot> | [10,9,8,7,6,5,4,3,2,1] |
| 2022-06-07 19:08:40 +0200 | <yrlnry> | Oh, geez. Thanks! |
| 2022-06-07 19:08:43 +0200 | <[Leary]> | yrlnry: You just missed the fmap on getDown. |
| 2022-06-07 19:08:48 +0200 | <yrlnry> | Yep. |
| 2022-06-07 19:10:55 +0200 | <yrlnry> | Can you get lambdabot to tell me the type it inferred for `backwards`? |
| 2022-06-07 19:11:25 +0200 | <[Leary]> | :t L.backwards |
| 2022-06-07 19:11:26 +0200 | <lambdabot> | (Functor f1, Functor f2) => (f2 (Down a) -> f1 (Down b)) -> f2 a -> f1 b |
| 2022-06-07 19:12:26 +0200 | <yrlnry> | :t backwards |
| 2022-06-07 19:12:27 +0200 | <lambdabot> | error: |
| 2022-06-07 19:12:27 +0200 | <lambdabot> | Ambiguous occurrence ‘backwards’ |
| 2022-06-07 19:12:28 +0200 | <lambdabot> | It could refer to |
| 2022-06-07 19:12:34 +0200 | <yrlnry> | :t L.backwards |
| 2022-06-07 19:12:35 +0200 | <lambdabot> | (Functor f1, Functor f2) => (f2 (Down a) -> f1 (Down b)) -> f2 a -> f1 b |
| 2022-06-07 19:13:06 +0200 | <yrlnry> | :t sort |
| 2022-06-07 19:13:08 +0200 | <lambdabot> | Ord a => [a] -> [a] |
| 2022-06-07 19:14:09 +0200 | <geekosaur> | fwiw I got a more general one locally once I got it to work |
| 2022-06-07 19:14:14 +0200 | <geekosaur> | backwards :: (Functor f, Ord a) => (forall g b. (Functor g, Ord b) => g b -> g b) -> f a -> f a |
| 2022-06-07 19:14:29 +0200 | <yrlnry> | I think that's what I was groping for, |
| 2022-06-07 19:14:40 +0200 | <geekosaur> | requires RankNTypes |
| 2022-06-07 19:15:19 +0200 | <yrlnry> | It seemed funny to me that the type should have `Down` in it, but I couldn't think of how to say why. |
| 2022-06-07 19:15:38 +0200 | <geekosaur> | hm, no, doesn't match |
| 2022-06-07 19:15:59 +0200 | <geekosaur> | so I'm still doing it wrong |
| 2022-06-07 19:17:51 +0200 | <geekosaur> | right, problem is the forall means `bqackwards` specifies the type, except it doesn't |
| 2022-06-07 19:18:04 +0200 | <[Leary]> | Maybe you want this one? (Functor f, Ord a) => (forall b. Ord b => f b -> f b) -> f a -> f a |
| 2022-06-07 19:18:14 +0200 | <geekosaur> | maybe |
| 2022-06-07 19:18:20 +0200 | <[Leary]> | backwards does specify it as Down a. |
| 2022-06-07 19:18:26 +0200 | <geekosaur> | I was having a problem that turned out to be a missing fmap |
| 2022-06-07 19:19:02 +0200 | <yrlnry> | Where does `sort` come from? I tried importing `Data.Sort` but GHC says can not find,. |
| 2022-06-07 19:19:11 +0200 | econo | (uid147250@user/econo) |
| 2022-06-07 19:19:23 +0200 | <geekosaur> | Data.List |
| 2022-06-07 19:19:26 +0200 | <geekosaur> | or: |
| 2022-06-07 19:19:29 +0200 | <geekosaur> | @index sort |
| 2022-06-07 19:19:29 +0200 | <lambdabot> | GHC.OldList, Data.List, Data.ByteString, Data.ByteString.Char8, Data.Sequence |
| 2022-06-07 19:19:39 +0200 | <yrlnry> | geekosaur++ |
| 2022-06-07 19:20:05 +0200 | <geekosaur> | (you can also ask hoogle.haskell.org) |
| 2022-06-07 19:21:01 +0200 | <yrlnry> | I think backwards :: (Functor f, Ord a) => (forall b. (Ord b) => f b -> f b) -> f a -> f a is it. |
| 2022-06-07 19:21:14 +0200 | <darkling> | The last few times I've tried asking Hoogle, it gave me no results, for any search. |
| 2022-06-07 19:21:34 +0200 | <geekosaur> | that's the one I ended up with, yes |
| 2022-06-07 19:21:54 +0200 | <yrlnry> | Thanks all, you've been very helpful. |
| 2022-06-07 19:22:20 +0200 | <geekosaur> | https://paste.tomsmeding.com/peRvoRLu |
| 2022-06-07 19:22:37 +0200 | <geekosaur> | with some extraneous imports as I hunted for Down, whoops :) |
| 2022-06-07 19:22:49 +0200 | <geekosaur> | sadly ghci doesn't have @index |
| 2022-06-07 19:25:04 +0200 | <telser_> | That would be a super useful feature though |
| 2022-06-07 19:25:40 +0200 | yosef`` | (~user@2409:8955:61c:4510:bc38:4f13:2f21:ed8c) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) |
| 2022-06-07 19:27:05 +0200 | telser_ | telser |
| 2022-06-07 19:30:00 +0200 | <geekosaur[m]> | Back in the day there was a way to hook lambdabot into ghcup. It's sadly bitrotted |
| 2022-06-07 19:30:38 +0200 | <maerwald> | what? |
| 2022-06-07 19:32:01 +0200 | <geekosaur[m]> | @hackage goa |
| 2022-06-07 19:32:02 +0200 | <lambdabot> | https://hackage.haskell.org/package/goa |
| 2022-06-07 19:35:04 +0200 | eggplantade | (~Eggplanta@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:a48b:5f36:2f4:7e9e) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2022-06-07 19:36:39 +0200 | <geekosaur> | oops I meant ghci. phone's learning autocompletion wrong :/ |
| 2022-06-07 19:37:42 +0200 | <geekosaur> | (yes, I've said "ghcup" enough that it's now offered as an autocompletion) |
| 2022-06-07 19:39:45 +0200 | Pickchea | (~private@user/pickchea) (Quit: Leaving) |
| 2022-06-07 19:39:51 +0200 | zebrag | (~chris@user/zebrag) |
| 2022-06-07 19:39:55 +0200 | <monochrom> | That speaks to the success of ghcup. :) |
| 2022-06-07 19:44:54 +0200 | slack1256 | (~slack1256@191.125.99.72) |
| 2022-06-07 19:47:33 +0200 | nate3 | (~nate@98.45.169.16) |
| 2022-06-07 19:50:27 +0200 | <slack1256> | I have been reading about copatterns for codata, mind bending stuff. I do wonder, if we had access on a functional language to co-data declarations, would composition of co-data and data (either in data structures or pipelines) work out OK? I ask here because lazy evaluation gives us "guarded recursion", so it can be seen as a way to treat co-recursively some data structures without having separated syntax and types for data and co-data. But I wonder i |
| 2022-06-07 19:50:28 +0200 | <slack1256> | f apart from ergonomics, there is a semantic challenge combining the two polarities of data on a single programming language that promotes composition. |
| 2022-06-07 19:50:31 +0200 | remedan | (~remedan@octo.cafe) (Quit: Bye!) |
| 2022-06-07 19:50:56 +0200 | <slack1256> | It came out sightly longer than expected, but I think I had to give context to my question. Sorry about that. |
| 2022-06-07 19:51:45 +0200 | <dolio> | data and codata cannot really be distinguished in languages with general recursion. |
| 2022-06-07 19:52:25 +0200 | alp | (~alp@user/alp) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2022-06-07 19:53:42 +0200 | justsomeguy | (~justsomeg@user/justsomeguy) |
| 2022-06-07 19:54:02 +0200 | <lyxia> | I don't think "lazy evaluation gives us guarded recursion" |
| 2022-06-07 19:54:04 +0200 | zincy | (~zincy@2a01:cb18:82de:bf00:545d:42c6:141c:ed13) |
| 2022-06-07 19:54:29 +0200 | <lyxia> | guarded recursion is a mechanism to ensure that functions are total |
| 2022-06-07 19:54:36 +0200 | <dolio> | Even in a total language, the distinction between those two things is somewhat unrelated to syntactic ways of presenting functions. |
| 2022-06-07 19:55:06 +0200 | <lyxia> | and lazy evaluation doesn't care whether your language is total or partial |
| 2022-06-07 19:55:38 +0200 | <dolio> | Agda has (still) a system for codata that looks like data, and you can use copattern matching on records that aren't coinductive. |
| 2022-06-07 19:56:50 +0200 | <lyxia> | copatterns is a nice syntax for defining records, it wouldn't be too hard to have it in Haskell too. |
| 2022-06-07 19:58:27 +0200 | <dolio> | Or, for instance, there is a nice way of presenting size-indexed lists via copattern matching, where `head` and `tail` need only be defined for lists of size greater than 0. |
| 2022-06-07 19:59:09 +0200 | jakalx | (~jakalx@base.jakalx.net) (Error from remote client) |
| 2022-06-07 19:59:18 +0200 | <dolio> | You could force people to make such lists 'coinductive' to do that, but every value is actually finite. |
| 2022-06-07 19:59:25 +0200 | remedan | (~remedan@octo.cafe) |
| 2022-06-07 20:01:05 +0200 | mbuf | (~Shakthi@223.190.216.42) (Quit: Leaving) |
| 2022-06-07 20:06:12 +0200 | <__monty__> | darkling: Maybe you were looking for things that aren't in Stackage? Hoogle's index is based on that, IIRC. (With Nix it's easy to get a local Hoogle instance with an index for all your local dependencies.) |
| 2022-06-07 20:07:34 +0200 | azimut | (~azimut@gateway/tor-sasl/azimut) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-06-07 20:10:46 +0200 | azimut | (~azimut@gateway/tor-sasl/azimut) |
| 2022-06-07 20:10:46 +0200 | alp | (~alp@user/alp) |
| 2022-06-07 20:12:40 +0200 | califax | (~califax@user/califx) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2022-06-07 20:12:42 +0200 | <slack1256> | lyxia: I don't think guarded recursion is related to the notion that functions can be total. I think you mean 'structural recursion' which guarrantees that functions are total. |
| 2022-06-07 20:13:12 +0200 | <slack1256> | guarded recursion can be seen as one of the ingredients that you can use to prove that function on co-data are 'productive'. |
| 2022-06-07 20:14:48 +0200 | califax | (~califax@user/califx) |
| 2022-06-07 20:15:14 +0200 | tomsmeding | prefers to think in Haskell, where the question is moot because we have general recursive types :p |
| 2022-06-07 20:15:19 +0200 | <slack1256> | dolio: Can you expand on the statement that "data and codata cannot be distinguished on languages with general recursion"? |
| 2022-06-07 20:17:07 +0200 | <dolio> | It means that such systems have "limit-colimit coincidence." Initial F-algebras are the same as final F-coalgebras. |
| 2022-06-07 20:17:23 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | I think Haskell is a reference example of how to combine data and codata -- haskell's data types generalise both |
| 2022-06-07 20:18:02 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | due to laziness |
| 2022-06-07 20:18:06 +0200 | <dolio> | The least fixed point of F is the greatest fixed point, and vice versa. It's now up to F whether that looks like the total-data on the analogue of F, or total-codata. |
| 2022-06-07 20:18:36 +0200 | <dolio> | And which way it ends up is intertwined with the evaluation order. |
| 2022-06-07 20:20:36 +0200 | <dolio> | So, in Haskell, there is: `data ENat = Zero | Suc ENat` which seems similar to the total, coinductive extended naturals, and `data Nat = Zero | Suc !Nat` which looks like the total, inductive naturals. |
| 2022-06-07 20:21:06 +0200 | <slack1256> | I have not read much about F-(co)algebras yet. I know their definition (endofunctor with a carrier etc), but I have not related them to common data definitions on haskell, specially the co-algebras. A link or reference with the full treatment would be appreciated. |
| 2022-06-07 20:21:48 +0200 | jakalx | (~jakalx@base.jakalx.net) |
| 2022-06-07 20:21:56 +0200 | <dolio> | The 'shape' of the first is `data EN x = Zero | Suc x` and the second is `data N x = Zero | Suc !x`, and those are different functors in Haskell. |
| 2022-06-07 20:22:38 +0200 | <dolio> | And the data declarations are both the inductive and coinductive fixed-points of their respective, distinct functors. |
| 2022-06-07 20:24:04 +0200 | <dolio> | The same is true for, say, ML, but the notation is different. N looks like EN there, and EN needs to be written by delaying with `() -> x`. |
| 2022-06-07 20:26:47 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | maybe the `() -> x` version is equivalent in some semantic fashion, but I'd consider the more appropriate version with `Lazy x` or whatever the notation was |
| 2022-06-07 20:26:59 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | (i.e. call-by-need laziness instead of call-by-name) |
| 2022-06-07 20:28:19 +0200 | <dolio> | Well, yeah, this is only about the denotational semantics. |
| 2022-06-07 20:30:36 +0200 | Guest27 | (~Guest27@2601:281:d47f:1590::59a2) |
| 2022-06-07 20:32:57 +0200 | agumonkey | (~user@2a01:e0a:8f9:d3e0:b117:81a8:33f6:93e7) |
| 2022-06-07 20:35:17 +0200 | <Guest27> | How do I splice a name into a foreign import in TH? |
| 2022-06-07 20:35:18 +0200 | <Guest27> | ''' |
| 2022-06-07 20:35:18 +0200 | <Guest27> | [d| foreign import capi "myheader.h MYCONST" myCConst :: Int |] |
| 2022-06-07 20:35:19 +0200 | <Guest27> | ''' |
| 2022-06-07 20:35:19 +0200 | <Guest27> | If I try to replace myCConst with $something or $(something...) I get a parse error on the $. |
| 2022-06-07 20:35:20 +0200 | <Guest27> | I'd like to substitute in a Name created with mkName so I can automatically generate imports for a list of #define'd constants and not end up with myCConst_23 or whatnot |
| 2022-06-07 20:35:29 +0200 | eggplantade | (~Eggplanta@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:a48b:5f36:2f4:7e9e) |
| 2022-06-07 20:37:23 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | Guest27: perhaps you can create your own ForeignD? |
| 2022-06-07 20:38:04 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | a trick if you want to know what a quote returns: $(LitE . StringL . show <$> [d| foreign import capi "myheader.h MYCONST" myCConst :: Int |]) |
| 2022-06-07 20:38:06 +0200 | <Guest27> | tomsmeding That's going to be my last resort. Curious if there's a cleaner/less error-prone way |
| 2022-06-07 20:39:04 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | if you get a parse error in that position I'm afraid the GHC parser just wasn't written to expect a slice there, and you're going to have no alternative than writing your own ForeignD :p |
| 2022-06-07 20:39:33 +0200 | <Guest27> | Ah man! Well thanks for the help |
| 2022-06-07 20:39:47 +0200 | eggplantade | (~Eggplanta@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:a48b:5f36:2f4:7e9e) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
| 2022-06-07 20:39:52 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | Guest27: please do look at that LitE.StringL.show thing I posted, because the "myheader.h MYCONST" string seems to get changed in the process |
| 2022-06-07 20:40:17 +0200 | <Guest27> | @tomsmen |
| 2022-06-07 20:40:17 +0200 | <lambdabot> | Unknown command, try @list |
| 2022-06-07 20:40:23 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | (I don't know anything about the FFI so no idea if that change is semantically relevant or not) |
| 2022-06-07 20:40:30 +0200 | <Guest27> | Woops. Anyways I'll be sure to |
| 2022-06-07 20:40:54 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | (most irc clients allow tab-completion if you start with a nick at the beginning of a message) |
| 2022-06-07 20:41:37 +0200 | <Guest27> | My enter finger happened to beat my tab finger at the race that time :P |
| 2022-06-07 20:41:41 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | :D |
| 2022-06-07 20:41:47 +0200 | shapr | (~user@pool-173-73-44-186.washdc.fios.verizon.net) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
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| 2022-06-07 20:52:06 +0200 | maerwald | (~maerwald@mail.hasufell.de) (Changing host) |
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| 2022-06-07 21:28:24 +0200 | yrlnry | (~yrlnry@pool-108-2-150-109.phlapa.fios.verizon.net) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2022-06-07 21:28:43 +0200 | acidjnk_new | (~acidjnk@p200300d0c7068b7038b60eba3c0a34f2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 2022-06-07 21:29:46 +0200 | szkl | (uid110435@id-110435.uxbridge.irccloud.com) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) |
| 2022-06-07 21:37:54 +0200 | P1RATEZ | (piratez@user/p1ratez) |
| 2022-06-07 21:41:39 +0200 | shapr | (~user@pool-173-73-44-186.washdc.fios.verizon.net) |
| 2022-06-07 21:45:57 +0200 | <Guest27> | tomsmeding It turns out combining `capi "myheader.h value MYCONST"` with TH results in a ghc panic on 8.6.5 :P |
| 2022-06-07 21:45:58 +0200 | <Guest27> | By this point I could've copy+pasted the C constants into Haskell and run a text editor macro over them 100 times XD |
| 2022-06-07 21:46:10 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | ._. |
| 2022-06-07 21:46:26 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | 8.6.5 only? |
| 2022-06-07 21:46:45 +0200 | <Guest27> | Currently installing ghcup to test that lol |
| 2022-06-07 21:46:57 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | yay |
| 2022-06-07 21:48:12 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | question: is there a library on hackage that implements HTTP basic authentication from the server side? (i.e. the WWW-Authenticate and Authorization headers) |
| 2022-06-07 21:48:37 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | I'm using snap but I can't find anything in the snap libraries that handles this... |
| 2022-06-07 21:48:53 +0200 | agumonkey | (~user@2a01:e0a:8f9:d3e0:b117:81a8:33f6:93e7) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2022-06-07 21:48:57 +0200 | <ManofLetters[m]> | I'm having CRLF issues when cloning ghc: "The file will have its original line endings in your working directory" and I can't checkout branches; I think `.gitattributes` forces some conversion; I'm on LInux and my git is rather old (2.7.4), but it's way newer than what GHC docs require (1.7.8) --- did anybody have this problem? help? |
| 2022-06-07 21:49:31 +0200 | Raito_Bezarius | (~Raito@wireguard/tunneler/raito-bezarius) |
| 2022-06-07 21:50:38 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | ManofLetters[m]: what exactly is the error that you get? this sounds super weird, and also something that may be fixed by a newer git version |
| 2022-06-07 21:51:13 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | I would not be surprised if the "minimum git version" is not something that is meticulously kept up-to-date :p |
| 2022-06-07 21:51:59 +0200 | Raito_Bezarius | (~Raito@wireguard/tunneler/raito-bezarius) (Max SendQ exceeded) |
| 2022-06-07 21:53:00 +0200 | <ManofLetters[m]> | ~/r/ghc$ git checkout ghc-9.2 |
| 2022-06-07 21:53:00 +0200 | <ManofLetters[m]> | error: Your local changes to the following files would be overwritten by checkout: |
| 2022-06-07 21:53:00 +0200 | <ManofLetters[m]> | testsuite/tests/indexed-types/should_compile/T14164.hs |
| 2022-06-07 21:53:17 +0200 | <ManofLetters[m]> | and I can't get rid of the local changes --- they seem to be somehow autogenerated |
| 2022-06-07 21:53:17 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | but `git status` gives no changes? |
| 2022-06-07 21:53:40 +0200 | <ManofLetters[m]> | git gives changes and lots of warnings about line endings |
| 2022-06-07 21:53:47 +0200 | <ManofLetters[m]> | *git status |
| 2022-06-07 21:53:58 +0200 | <ManofLetters[m]> | `git stash` nor `git checkout --` get rid of the changes |
| 2022-06-07 21:54:28 +0200 | <ManofLetters[m]> | I think you may be right a newer git is required |
| 2022-06-07 21:54:38 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | ManofLetters[m]: no idea if this is going to work, but as a workaround you can perhaps try `git checkout -b newbranch; git reset --soft ghc-9.2; git checkout -- .` |
| 2022-06-07 21:54:59 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | also, those autogenerated changes, what are they? |
| 2022-06-07 21:56:43 +0200 | <ManofLetters[m]> | they are void, so I think they are indeed line endings |
| 2022-06-07 21:56:46 +0200 | <ManofLetters[m]> | hah, it worked |
| 2022-06-07 21:56:52 +0200 | <ManofLetters[m]> | the trick you gave |
| 2022-06-07 21:57:19 +0200 | <ManofLetters[m]> | still lots of changes, but now I'm at the correct branch |
| 2022-06-07 21:57:33 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | no guarantee that ghc tests successfully with the line ending changes though |
| 2022-06-07 21:57:50 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | don't know if the golden tests stuff that they use can handle inconsistent line endings |
| 2022-06-07 21:57:54 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | but you can try :) |
| 2022-06-07 21:58:24 +0200 | <EvanR> | hmm programming language where line endings are significant and there are multiple kinds to choose from |
| 2022-06-07 21:58:25 +0200 | <ManofLetters[m]> | I will only be running my perf regressions, after I manage to merge in a MR |
| 2022-06-07 21:58:27 +0200 | <ManofLetters[m]> | so I should be fine |
| 2022-06-07 21:58:29 +0200 | <ManofLetters[m]> | thanks you again |
| 2022-06-07 21:58:40 +0200 | _ht | (~quassel@231-169-21-31.ftth.glasoperator.nl) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2022-06-07 21:58:40 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | ManofLetters[m]: my trick is a huge hack, if you know what that means it's fine, if you have no idea what it means then please say so, I can explain what state your repo is now in :p |
| 2022-06-07 21:58:48 +0200 | <EvanR> | I think whitespace doesn't exploit this? |
| 2022-06-07 21:59:04 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | EvanR: no whitespace is just space/tab/newline |
| 2022-06-07 21:59:31 +0200 | <EvanR> | \r\n vs \n vs something else, would be hellish |
| 2022-06-07 21:59:42 +0200 | <geekosaur> | macs used to use \r |
| 2022-06-07 21:59:49 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | makes me think of https://esolangs.org/wiki/Folders for some reason |
| 2022-06-07 21:59:51 +0200 | <geekosaur> | telnet used to use \r\r\n |
| 2022-06-07 22:00:54 +0200 | <ManofLetters[m]> | tomsmeding: please tell me, in what horrible state is my repo now? |
| 2022-06-07 22:00:58 +0200 | <mrianbloom> | Can you use a type family as if it's a functor, as in if there is a function of type x -> f x can f be a type family? |
| 2022-06-07 22:02:30 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | ManofLetters[m]: :p it's not that bad. You're currently on a new, local-only branch that happens to point to the same commit as the ghc-9.2 branch. So if you pull now, git will think that you want to pull 'newbranch', which isn't going to do anything. You'll need to `git fetch --all`, and do the `reset` and `checkout` shuffle again |
| 2022-06-07 22:02:51 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | mrianbloom: unfortunately no |
| 2022-06-07 22:03:13 +0200 | <ManofLetters[m]> | tomsmeding: phew, thanks, I can work with that :) |
| 2022-06-07 22:03:16 +0200 | yrlnry | (~yrlnry@pool-108-2-150-109.phlapa.fios.verizon.net) |
| 2022-06-07 22:03:17 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | if you mean unifying the type of `foo :: a -> f a` with `a -> F a` where F is a type family |
| 2022-06-07 22:03:33 +0200 | <mrianbloom> | What would be the alternative design to make something like this toy compile: https://replit.com/@IanBloom/TestTypeFamilyGADT?v=1 |
| 2022-06-07 22:03:48 +0200 | <EvanR> | or was the question, can you have a function a -> F a where F is a type family |
| 2022-06-07 22:04:16 +0200 | <EvanR> | (but what does that have to do with functors) |
| 2022-06-07 22:04:25 +0200 | <mrianbloom> | EvanR, yes but I'd like to define a function where F is polymorphic. |
| 2022-06-07 22:04:37 +0200 | <EvanR> | "any type family" ? |
| 2022-06-07 22:04:38 +0200 | Unicorn_Princess | (~Unicorn_P@93-103-228-248.dynamic.t-2.net) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2022-06-07 22:04:46 +0200 | <mrianbloom> | Yes. |
| 2022-06-07 22:05:38 +0200 | <mrianbloom> | The background is I'm trying to define some higher order functions that map over different knds of GADT expressions. |
| 2022-06-07 22:06:01 +0200 | <EvanR> | you could use polykinds to speak of any * -> * |
| 2022-06-07 22:06:24 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | EvanR: that doesn't allow you to put a type family there |
| 2022-06-07 22:06:28 +0200 | <EvanR> | I figured |
| 2022-06-07 22:06:36 +0200 | zeenk | (~zeenk@2a02:2f04:a013:9000:e45d:7fb3:ec71:e806) (Quit: Konversation terminated!) |
| 2022-06-07 22:06:43 +0200 | <EvanR> | (so what's the kind of a corresponding type family F) |
| 2022-06-07 22:07:05 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | a type family is not a type, and hence does not have a kind |
| 2022-06-07 22:07:07 +0200 | <EvanR> | or is it purely syntactic |
| 2022-06-07 22:07:13 +0200 | <mrianbloom> | I think it's just Type -> Type |
| 2022-06-07 22:07:18 +0200 | <EvanR> | nah |
| 2022-06-07 22:07:20 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | a type family applied to all its arguments has a kind |
| 2022-06-07 22:08:14 +0200 | <EvanR> | no partially applied type families or type synonyms |
| 2022-06-07 22:08:19 +0200 | <mrianbloom> | If you take a look at the Replit, baasically I used headF in place of say mapExpression. https://replit.com/@IanBloom/TestTypeFamilyGADT?v=1 |
| 2022-06-07 22:08:36 +0200 | Raito_Bezarius | (~Raito@wireguard/tunneler/raito-bezarius) |
| 2022-06-07 22:10:10 +0200 | <Guest27> | Even GHC 9.2.3 panics due to "values not supported yet" (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ |
| 2022-06-07 22:10:33 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | rip |
| 2022-06-07 22:10:43 +0200 | zincy | (~zincy@2a01:cb18:82de:bf00:545d:42c6:141c:ed13) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2022-06-07 22:10:56 +0200 | <dsal> | no values |
| 2022-06-07 22:11:02 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | types only |
| 2022-06-07 22:11:13 +0200 | Raito_Bezarius | (~Raito@wireguard/tunneler/raito-bezarius) (Max SendQ exceeded) |
| 2022-06-07 22:11:18 +0200 | <Guest27> | Hand over the values SPJ |
| 2022-06-07 22:11:33 +0200 | eggplantade | (~Eggplanta@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:b5bc:25b:5256:1595) |
| 2022-06-07 22:12:01 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | mrianbloom: I'm not quite clear on the higher goal that you're trying to accomplish, so not sure what to recommend. Abstracting over type families like you tried is not going to work, in any case (though it would be useful if that was possible) |
| 2022-06-07 22:12:15 +0200 | <dsal> | None of these people in their ivory towers have any values that mean something to us commoners. |
| 2022-06-07 22:12:44 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | they're solitary types |
| 2022-06-07 22:12:47 +0200 | <Guest27> | They dare disrespect my blue-collar `#define`s? |
| 2022-06-07 22:15:14 +0200 | <mrianbloom> | tomsmeding: So I built a much more complicated Expression type where the different operations are specific GADTs, I'm hoping to write polymorphic mapping functions that might only change one node in the expression. |
| 2022-06-07 22:15:56 +0200 | <mrianbloom> | I boiled this down to just a list of GADTs for the purpose of trying to understand the problem. |
| 2022-06-07 22:17:03 +0200 | <mrianbloom> | In reality headF would be a function like, map over an expression and visit every binary operation. |
| 2022-06-07 22:17:45 +0200 | Maxdamantus | (~Maxdamant@user/maxdamantus) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 2022-06-07 22:19:29 +0200 | Maxdamantus | (~Maxdamant@user/maxdamantus) |
| 2022-06-07 22:19:46 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | mrianbloom: and where do the type families come in? |
| 2022-06-07 22:20:02 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | oh the mapping functions have dependent types, right |
| 2022-06-07 22:20:10 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | or, like, that isn't the right term |
| 2022-06-07 22:23:33 +0200 | cosimone | (~user@93-44-186-171.ip98.fastwebnet.it) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2022-06-07 22:23:40 +0200 | <mrianbloom> | Well if I try to map from one type of expression to it's descendent type I've rapped it in a type Family that lets me specify the new structure. For example the old expression might include Ints and Strings but the descendent only has Strings. |
| 2022-06-07 22:23:52 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | yeah I see |
| 2022-06-07 22:24:20 +0200 | abiss27 | (~abiss27@user/abiss) |
| 2022-06-07 22:26:59 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | mrianbloom: even if you could instantiate `f` to a type family in `headF`, it still wouldn't work because you require `forall x . x -> f x`, but `fooChar :: Bar t -> Foo (Bar t)` |
| 2022-06-07 22:27:16 +0200 | lyle | (~lyle@104.246.145.85) (Quit: WeeChat 3.5) |
| 2022-06-07 22:27:32 +0200 | zebrag | (~chris@user/zebrag) (Quit: Konversation terminated!) |
| 2022-06-07 22:27:45 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | I maybe perhaps have a workaround using a type class with an associated type family, but I run into this :p |
| 2022-06-07 22:28:42 +0200 | <mrianbloom> | Right, so the assumption is that f handles every case of a GADT, hence the forall x. |
| 2022-06-07 22:28:58 +0200 | waleee | (~waleee@2001:9b0:213:7200:cc36:a556:b1e8:b340) |
| 2022-06-07 22:30:44 +0200 | Raito_Bezarius | (~Raito@wireguard/tunneler/raito-bezarius) |
| 2022-06-07 22:31:24 +0200 | stackdroid18 | (14094@user/stackdroid) |
| 2022-06-07 22:33:01 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | > main \n 34 \n fff3456 |
| 2022-06-07 22:33:24 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | mrianbloom: warning hacks https://play-haskell.tomsmeding.com/play/paste/eaPHW0eI/1 |
| 2022-06-07 22:33:28 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | note I changed Foo |
| 2022-06-07 22:33:46 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | `f` is the GADT |
| 2022-06-07 22:34:21 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | the `Mapper` dictionary is kind of the way in which I pass _both_ the function _and_ the associated type family into headF |
| 2022-06-07 22:34:48 +0200 | <mrianbloom> | Is see, the it's functioning like a wrapper type. |
| 2022-06-07 22:36:43 +0200 | <mrianbloom> | I need to study the proxy library. |
| 2022-06-07 22:36:51 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | Data.Proxy? |
| 2022-06-07 22:36:59 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | there is nothing to study there |
| 2022-06-07 22:37:06 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | `data Proxy a = Proxy` |
| 2022-06-07 22:37:20 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | you can achieve the same thing using TypeApplications |
| 2022-06-07 22:37:26 +0200 | <mrianbloom> | I see. |
| 2022-06-07 22:37:43 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | using a Proxy is just a way to not have to use AllowAmbiguousTypes |
| 2022-06-07 22:38:31 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | the only funny extra thing with Proxy is that it's kind-polymorphic, i.e. it's really `data Proxy (a :: k) = Proxy` |
| 2022-06-07 22:38:54 +0200 | <tdammers> | You can literally define Proxy in your own module if you want, there really isn't more to it than that one line. The main reason we have it in a library is so that we have a "canonical" Proxy type that everyone should be using, so that we don't have to generalize proxy code over an arbitrary proxy type (which is also possible, but can obfuscate type errors quite a bit) |
| 2022-06-07 22:38:54 +0200 | <mrianbloom> | I see. AmbiguousTypes is the bane of my existence. I always know that when I add it to the top of a file, I'm opening up the gates of hell. |
| 2022-06-07 22:38:56 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | (though that's not really all that special, you can get the same with your own types just by enabling PolyKinds) |
| 2022-06-07 22:39:42 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | mrianbloom: I concur lol. Well, not necessarily gates of hell, it's just liable to get much more finicky to get all the types right |
| 2022-06-07 22:40:07 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | without AllowAmbiguousTypes, at least you know that if the types of all the arguments to a function as well as the type of its result are known, then the function is fully determined |
| 2022-06-07 22:40:39 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | this is very useful if you're already in the weeds with getting the type checker to do what you want :p |
| 2022-06-07 22:40:40 +0200 | Raito_Bezarius | (~Raito@wireguard/tunneler/raito-bezarius) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) |
| 2022-06-07 22:41:27 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | tdammers: actually there are a bunch of functions (in Data.Proxy, even) that generalise over a `proxy` type :p |
| 2022-06-07 22:42:41 +0200 | coot | (~coot@213.134.190.95) (Quit: coot) |
| 2022-06-07 22:43:11 +0200 | tromp | (~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2022-06-07 22:44:11 +0200 | <tdammers> | tomsmeding: haha, yeah, I know. but experience tells me that's not always a great idea |
| 2022-06-07 22:44:41 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | had to look twice at those types the first time I saw them |
| 2022-06-07 22:44:58 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | "how can `f a` be a type that successfully unifies with anything -- oh wait" |
| 2022-06-07 22:45:15 +0200 | <mrianbloom> | I'm experimenting with an injective type family as well: type family ETy (r :: * -> *) (t :: *) = (x :: *) | x -> r t |
| 2022-06-07 22:47:00 +0200 | zebrag | (~chris@user/zebrag) |
| 2022-06-07 22:47:24 +0200 | <Bulby[m]> | \o/ thank you tom for that breakthrough of stack and heap |
| 2022-06-07 22:48:03 +0200 | <Bulby[m]> | stack and heap perfectly represents static scope without running a resolver |
| 2022-06-07 22:49:00 +0200 | <Bulby[m]> | I need to learn how to experiement in haskell and find solutions |
| 2022-06-07 22:49:45 +0200 | coot | (~coot@213.134.190.95) |
| 2022-06-07 22:50:42 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | Bulby[m]: yay :) |
| 2022-06-07 22:51:13 +0200 | Raito_Bezarius | (~Raito@wireguard/tunneler/raito-bezarius) |
| 2022-06-07 22:51:28 +0200 | <Bulby[m]> | and the REPL works by making the interpreter return its stack, and storing the stack in a State effect |
| 2022-06-07 22:51:29 +0200 | jgeerds | (~jgeerds@55d45f48.access.ecotel.net) |
| 2022-06-07 22:54:40 +0200 | Raito_Bezarius | (~Raito@wireguard/tunneler/raito-bezarius) (Max SendQ exceeded) |
| 2022-06-07 22:59:33 +0200 | slack1256 | (~slack1256@191.125.99.72) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2022-06-07 22:59:39 +0200 | slac74904 | (~slack1256@186.11.84.227) |
| 2022-06-07 23:00:00 +0200 | Flonk | (~Flonk@vps-zap441517-1.zap-srv.com) |
| 2022-06-07 23:00:33 +0200 | littlebobeep | (~alMalsamo@gateway/tor-sasl/almalsamo) |
| 2022-06-07 23:04:06 +0200 | Raito_Bezarius | (~Raito@wireguard/tunneler/raito-bezarius) |
| 2022-06-07 23:04:28 +0200 | coot | (~coot@213.134.190.95) (Quit: coot) |
| 2022-06-07 23:04:34 +0200 | Guest27 | (~Guest27@2601:281:d47f:1590::59a2) (Quit: Client closed) |
| 2022-06-07 23:12:12 +0200 | yrlnry | (~yrlnry@pool-108-2-150-109.phlapa.fios.verizon.net) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2022-06-07 23:12:49 +0200 | yrlnry | (~yrlnry@pool-108-2-150-109.phlapa.fios.verizon.net) |
| 2022-06-07 23:13:08 +0200 | bontaq | (~user@ool-45779fe5.dyn.optonline.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2022-06-07 23:14:04 +0200 | unit73e | (~emanuel@2001:818:e8dd:7c00:32b5:c2ff:fe6b:5291) |
| 2022-06-07 23:15:28 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | Bulby[m]: which is similar to how a block of statements is executed, except we need to ask the user for the next statement each time |
| 2022-06-07 23:16:28 +0200 | <Bulby[m]> | recursion is magic |
| 2022-06-07 23:16:53 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | turtles all the way down |
| 2022-06-07 23:17:40 +0200 | yrlnry | (~yrlnry@pool-108-2-150-109.phlapa.fios.verizon.net) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) |
| 2022-06-07 23:17:51 +0200 | jao | (~jao@cpc103048-sgyl39-2-0-cust502.18-2.cable.virginm.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2022-06-07 23:19:35 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | mrianbloom: I just realised, my thing doesn't need a type class at all, an open type family can achieve the same thing. The essential thing is the tag type that essentially allows you to put lots of type families into one |
| 2022-06-07 23:20:28 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | you don't really get something like normal polymorphism this way, but you get something that's flexible enough I think |
| 2022-06-07 23:22:12 +0200 | abiss27 | (~abiss27@user/abiss) (Quit: hasta la vista... tchau!) |
| 2022-06-07 23:27:57 +0200 | odnes | (~odnes@5-203-158-63.pat.nym.cosmote.net) (Quit: Leaving) |
| 2022-06-07 23:28:19 +0200 | <mrianbloom> | tomsmeding: I think that's the direction I'm going. trying to use an open type family and different tag types to marshall the selection of type equations. |
| 2022-06-07 23:28:20 +0200 | mc47 | (~mc47@xmonad/TheMC47) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2022-06-07 23:34:36 +0200 | <Bulby[m]> | how does one do multiple local calls for different locals |
| 2022-06-07 23:34:41 +0200 | <Bulby[m]> | different readers* |
| 2022-06-07 23:35:55 +0200 | <geekosaur> | If you were using mtl you would use lift to reach others than the first |
| 2022-06-07 23:36:31 +0200 | <Bulby[m]> | polysemy is magic in that local can refer to any reader in the effect stack |
| 2022-06-07 23:36:49 +0200 | <Bulby[m]> | so I can use type annotations to specify |
| 2022-06-07 23:38:58 +0200 | <Bulby[m]> | oh, like `local f (local f sem)` |
| 2022-06-07 23:41:14 +0200 | <Bulby[m]> | hmm, should fun closures be stored like the stack or the heap... |
| 2022-06-07 23:41:23 +0200 | <Bulby[m]> | I think heap because it's tied to the value |
| 2022-06-07 23:45:48 +0200 | cosimone | (~user@2001:b07:ae5:db26:57c7:21a5:6e1c:6b81) |
| 2022-06-07 23:57:38 +0200 | takuan | (~takuan@178-116-218-225.access.telenet.be) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2022-06-07 23:59:17 +0200 | __monty__ | (~toonn@user/toonn) (Quit: leaving) |