IRCBrowse

2022/05/21

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2022-05-21 01:19:41 +0200 <Hecate> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z28SDd9bXcE
2022-05-21 01:19:44 +0200 <Hecate> a good talk
2022-05-21 01:27:51 +0200travisbtabemann
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2022-05-21 02:05:08 +0200 <maerwald[m]> ERLANG?
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2022-05-21 02:07:01 +0200 <hpc> it's on topic here - it's basically just haskell, but if it was totally different :D
2022-05-21 02:07:16 +0200machinedgod(~machinedg@24.105.81.50)
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2022-05-21 03:42:48 +0200Guest|33(~Guest|33@dynamic-186-28-145-94.dynamic.etb.net.co)
2022-05-21 03:43:46 +0200 <Guest|33> hello. i need help with an error
2022-05-21 03:46:02 +0200nate1(~nate@98.45.169.16)
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2022-05-21 03:57:09 +0200dons(~dons@user/dons)
2022-05-21 03:57:25 +0200azimut(~azimut@gateway/tor-sasl/azimut)
2022-05-21 03:58:40 +0200 <dons> anyone seen this? Configuring library for ghc-source-gen-0.4.3.0..
2022-05-21 03:58:40 +0200 <dons> Error: cabal: Duplicate modules in library: GHC.Driver.Monad,
2022-05-21 03:58:40 +0200 <dons> GHC.Driver.Session, GHC.Hs.Type, GHC.Plugins, GHC.Tc.Types.Evidence,
2022-05-21 03:58:40 +0200 <dons> GHC.Types.Basic, GHC.Utils.Outputable
2022-05-21 03:58:53 +0200 <dons> trying to cabal install proto-lens-protoc
2022-05-21 03:59:05 +0200notzmv(~zmv@user/notzmv) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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2022-05-21 03:59:58 +0200 <sclv> the dup module check became overenthusiastic in one version of cabal
2022-05-21 04:00:03 +0200szkl(uid110435@id-110435.uxbridge.irccloud.com) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2022-05-21 04:00:07 +0200 <dons> ah
2022-05-21 04:00:21 +0200 <sclv> it picks em up even when they are guarded by different flags
2022-05-21 04:00:23 +0200 <dons> yeah its guarded under an if impl() other-modules stanza, so i think the package spec is ok
2022-05-21 04:00:29 +0200 <dons> that'll be it
2022-05-21 04:00:49 +0200 <dons> i'll bump my cabal, running off of an older trunk
2022-05-21 04:00:50 +0200 <sclv> should be fixed in the next release, idk best practice in the meantime
2022-05-21 04:01:05 +0200 <sclv> oh right that’ll do it!
2022-05-21 04:01:07 +0200 <dons> 'sok, i'm using dev version of cabal , but its a bit old. will report back shortly
2022-05-21 04:01:33 +0200 <sclv> iirc it was my regression (and fix) so fingers crossed
2022-05-21 04:03:34 +0200jpds(~jpds@gateway/tor-sasl/jpds) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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2022-05-21 04:19:28 +0200z0k(~z0k@39.40.112.46)
2022-05-21 04:24:22 +0200 <dons> yep yep work~.
2022-05-21 04:24:52 +0200 <dons> works on cabal trunk
2022-05-21 04:34:27 +0200waleee(~waleee@2001:9b0:213:7200:cc36:a556:b1e8:b340) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2022-05-21 04:38:35 +0200 <sclv> w00t
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2022-05-21 06:30:54 +0200odnes(~odnes@5-203-193-92.pat.nym.cosmote.net)
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2022-05-21 06:35:58 +0200Sgeo(~Sgeo@user/sgeo)
2022-05-21 06:45:32 +0200 <dons> here's another one i don't understand. Warning: haskell-scip.cabal:0:0: Unsupported cabal-version. See
2022-05-21 06:45:35 +0200 <dons> https://github.com/haskell/cabal/issues/4899.
2022-05-21 06:45:38 +0200 <dons> setup: Failed parsing "./haskell-scip.cabal".
2022-05-21 06:45:40 +0200 <dons> dons@linode1:~/repos/haskell-scip$ cabal --version
2022-05-21 06:45:43 +0200 <dons> cabal-install version 3.6.2.0
2022-05-21 06:45:44 +0200 <dons> literally, just cabal-version: 3.6
2022-05-21 06:45:59 +0200 <dons> is it telling me that something i'm using isn't valid cabal 3.6 syntax?
2022-05-21 06:46:25 +0200 <dons> "Warning: haskell-scip.cabal:0:0: Unsupported cabal-version 3.6. See"
2022-05-21 06:47:09 +0200gpncarl(~gpncarl@120.244.220.69)
2022-05-21 06:48:45 +0200yauhsien(~yauhsien@61-231-45-20.dynamic-ip.hinet.net)
2022-05-21 06:51:48 +0200 <sclv> is this with the released cabal-install 3.6.2.0 or with something from the repo?
2022-05-21 06:53:52 +0200yauhsien(~yauhsien@61-231-45-20.dynamic-ip.hinet.net) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2022-05-21 06:55:11 +0200 <dons> both, https://github.com/donsbot/if-proto-scip-hs/blob/main/if-proto-scip-hs.cabal is the .cabal
2022-05-21 06:55:27 +0200 <dons> cabal --version
2022-05-21 06:55:28 +0200 <dons> cabal-install version 3.6.2.0
2022-05-21 06:55:28 +0200 <dons> compiled using version 3.6.3.0 of the Cabal library
2022-05-21 06:55:40 +0200 <dons> its got various autogen and custom stanzas, i wonder if that's confusing something?
2022-05-21 06:56:45 +0200takuan(~takuan@178-116-218-225.access.telenet.be)
2022-05-21 06:58:53 +0200 <sclv> hrm works with me on released cabal-install!
2022-05-21 06:59:12 +0200 <dons> huh!
2022-05-21 07:00:04 +0200 <sclv> gonna try head but i suspect same. could be a whitespace thing -- the version parser isn't the standard parser, because it has to parse the version specially before it decides "which" standard parser to use for the rest
2022-05-21 07:01:20 +0200Guest54(~Guest54@modemcable048.16-160-184.mc.videotron.ca) (Quit: Client closed)
2022-05-21 07:02:11 +0200 <sclv> yeah works for me on head too
2022-05-21 07:02:20 +0200 <dons> just reinstalling my Cabals then. suspect some weird mix
2022-05-21 07:03:35 +0200gpncarl(~gpncarl@120.244.220.69) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2022-05-21 07:03:46 +0200fartfarthololeap
2022-05-21 07:06:34 +0200Infinite(~Infinite@49.39.123.175) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2022-05-21 07:08:41 +0200 <dons> ah ha. /home/dons/repos/if-proto-scip-hs/dist-newstyle/build/x86_64-linux/ghc-8.10.7/if-proto-scip-hs-0.1.0.0/setup/setup -V
2022-05-21 07:08:44 +0200 <dons> Cabal library version 3.2.1.0
2022-05-21 07:08:58 +0200 <dons> the setup is getting compiled with system cabal, not my $HOME/.ghcup cabal
2022-05-21 07:09:43 +0200odnes(~odnes@5-203-193-92.pat.nym.cosmote.net) (Quit: Leaving)
2022-05-21 07:10:06 +0200 <sclv> oh interesting -- i wonder if that's a bug in cabal
2022-05-21 07:10:12 +0200jmdaemon(~jmdaemon@user/jmdaemon) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2022-05-21 07:10:24 +0200 <dons> it could warn, i imagine, that the worker and wrapper cabal lib versions are different
2022-05-21 07:10:53 +0200 <dons> i wonder how common this is, these days. e.g this is a base machine with debian stock ghc, but then ghcup all the rest
2022-05-21 07:11:14 +0200 <sclv> i'd think that we should always try to use the same cabal in the programdb that we're running
2022-05-21 07:11:38 +0200 <dons> dons@linode1:~/repos/if-proto-scip-hs$ ghc-pkg list Cabal
2022-05-21 07:11:38 +0200 <dons> /home/dons/.ghcup/ghc/8.10.7/lib/ghc-8.10.7/package.conf.d Cabal-3.2.1.0
2022-05-21 07:11:38 +0200 <dons> dons@linode1:~/repos/if-proto-scip-hs$ cabal --version
2022-05-21 07:11:38 +0200 <dons> cabal-install version 3.6.2.0
2022-05-21 07:11:56 +0200 <sclv> oh or, wait is it compiled with system cabal-install, or is it using the Cabal library of that version, since its unconstrained
2022-05-21 07:12:07 +0200 <sclv> i.e. if you constrain the Cabal in the custom setup to a higher version does it work
2022-05-21 07:12:15 +0200 <dons> oh
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2022-05-21 07:13:54 +0200tromp(~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl)
2022-05-21 07:14:08 +0200 <dons> no, i thought that would work. but it still wants to link the generated setup against the Cabal-3.2
2022-05-21 07:14:25 +0200 <dons> setup-depends: base, Cabal >= 3.6, proto-lens-setup
2022-05-21 07:14:37 +0200 <dons> would have thought that would force setup onto -V 3.6 ?
2022-05-21 07:14:51 +0200 <dons> oh it does!
2022-05-21 07:15:08 +0200darkling(~darkling@savella.carfax.org.uk) (Quit: Summoning his cosmic powers, and glowing slightly from his toes...)
2022-05-21 07:15:11 +0200 <dons> if-proto-scip-hs-0.1.0.0/setup/setup -V
2022-05-21 07:15:12 +0200 <dons> Cabal library version 3.6.3.0
2022-05-21 07:15:15 +0200 <dons> that looks healthier
2022-05-21 07:15:17 +0200darkling(~darkling@2001-ba8-1f1-f0e6-0-0-0-2.autov6rev.bitfolk.space)
2022-05-21 07:17:13 +0200 <dons> something screwy though. i gotta clean out all these weird cabal versions :}
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2022-05-21 08:30:28 +0200 <int-e> maerwald[m]: I'd need to know which channel that is
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2022-05-21 11:28:15 +0200 <maerwald[m]> int-e: #haskell-ghcup:libera.chat
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2022-05-21 11:52:02 +0200jakalx(~jakalx@base.jakalx.net) ()
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2022-05-21 12:01:09 +0200 <[exa]> is there something like isSpace that would NOT say that the unicode nonbreakable space is actually space? (https://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/00a0/index.htm says isWhitespace=no, isSpaceChar=yes)
2022-05-21 12:01:29 +0200chomwitt(~chomwitt@athe730-c-multi-500.home.otenet.gr)
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2022-05-21 12:03:39 +0200wolfshappen(~waff@irc.furworks.de)
2022-05-21 12:03:47 +0200__monty__(~toonn@user/toonn)
2022-05-21 12:04:33 +0200 <maerwald> (`elem` "\t\n\r\f\v")?
2022-05-21 12:04:57 +0200 <maerwald> eh, "\t\n\r\f\v "
2022-05-21 12:05:19 +0200 <[exa]> nah, I need to match the unicode spaces but not unicode nonbreaking spaces
2022-05-21 12:05:39 +0200[exa]converts this to a nice TODO
2022-05-21 12:07:53 +0200 <maerwald> I guess you just remove the `|| uc == 0xa0` from the isSpace definition
2022-05-21 12:07:59 +0200 <maerwald> https://hackage.haskell.org/package/base-4.16.1.0/docs/src/GHC-Unicode.html#isSpace
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2022-05-21 13:14:47 +0200obviyus(sid415299@user/obviyus)
2022-05-21 13:15:51 +0200 <Digit> hi, quick question, how much hd space will stack take? (asking because have limited space, scared to issue "curl -sSL https://get.haskellstack.org/ | sh")
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2022-05-21 13:17:39 +0200 <maerwald> 5GB or more
2022-05-21 13:18:13 +0200 <Digit> thanks. out of the question for me.
2022-05-21 13:18:54 +0200 <maerwald> what are you trying to do?
2022-05-21 13:21:40 +0200tromp(~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2022-05-21 13:23:12 +0200 <Digit> i thought about following along DistroTube's build a haskell gtk app in an hour video, on a whim. no big loss to skip it.
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2022-05-21 13:45:42 +0200 <sm> I used to figure about 1G per GHC version
2022-05-21 13:46:10 +0200 <sm> maybe it was 1G for GHC and another 1G for libs
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2022-05-21 13:51:33 +0200 <maerwald> GHC itself is 2GB
2022-05-21 13:52:20 +0200 <maerwald> then you have pantry with another 1GB
2022-05-21 13:53:26 +0200 <maerwald> the reason 9.0.2 with stack is only 1.1GB is because the bindist is broken (missing profiling libs)
2022-05-21 13:53:27 +0200 <int-e> 1GB works if you don't build documentation and profiling libs ;)
2022-05-21 13:55:15 +0200coot(~coot@2a02:a310:e241:1b00:ec1a:e9df:79ac:66ba) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-05-21 13:55:25 +0200 <int-e> regardless, ghc has grow noticably
2022-05-21 13:56:31 +0200 <int-e> https://paste.debian.net/1241572/ (this is without docs and profiling libs)
2022-05-21 13:57:47 +0200 <int-e> Hmm, I actually don't know what happened between 8.2 and 8.4
2022-05-21 13:59:32 +0200waltggVGc
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2022-05-21 14:04:42 +0200 <int-e> Oh, 8.4 and later includes a .o file for each library... in addition to the .so and a .a files.
2022-05-21 14:05:47 +0200yauhsien(~yauhsien@61-231-45-20.dynamic-ip.hinet.net)
2022-05-21 14:06:01 +0200coot(~coot@2a02:a310:e241:1b00:ec1a:e9df:79ac:66ba)
2022-05-21 14:06:20 +0200 <geekosaur> that seems like it might be worth noting to the folks in #ghc, since I don't think those .o-s are very useful to end users
2022-05-21 14:06:46 +0200 <geekosaur> and in any case should be extractable from the .a-s
2022-05-21 14:07:09 +0200 <int-e> Yeah... I do wonder how they would ever be used. A statically linked ghci would do that I guess... but who uses that?
2022-05-21 14:08:33 +0200frost(~frost@user/frost)
2022-05-21 14:09:04 +0200bitdex(~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2022-05-21 14:10:01 +0200 <maerwald> alpine bindist
2022-05-21 14:10:47 +0200coot(~coot@2a02:a310:e241:1b00:ec1a:e9df:79ac:66ba) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2022-05-21 14:11:11 +0200 <geekosaur> that's the .a
2022-05-21 14:11:20 +0200 <geekosaur> the individual .o files shouldn't be useful
2022-05-21 14:12:03 +0200bitdex(~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex)
2022-05-21 14:12:32 +0200 <geekosaur> and unloess something has gone really weird, should duplicate what's in the .a anyway
2022-05-21 14:17:11 +0200 <ggVGc> what do you guys think the chances are of successfully building and using this commit? https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/commit/e3f0d880b7b74ed95059a8cddf3edf3e0d2f83c6
2022-05-21 14:17:11 +0200x88x88x(~x88x88x@2001:19f0:5:39a8:5400:3ff:feb6:73cb) (Quit: ZNC - https://znc.in)
2022-05-21 14:17:31 +0200 <ggVGc> I've been curious how it would be to work on a project with 90s Haskell
2022-05-21 14:17:36 +0200 <ggVGc> in terms of compilation speed
2022-05-21 14:18:07 +0200azimut(~azimut@gateway/tor-sasl/azimut) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-05-21 14:18:07 +0200ec(~ec@gateway/tor-sasl/ec) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-05-21 14:18:11 +0200 <ggVGc> Since I mainly use haskell for DSLs generating other code anyway, and basically don't use anything fancy since I'm too dumb
2022-05-21 14:18:46 +0200azimut(~azimut@gateway/tor-sasl/azimut)
2022-05-21 14:19:55 +0200ec(~ec@gateway/tor-sasl/ec)
2022-05-21 14:20:25 +0200tromp(~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2022-05-21 14:24:50 +0200[itchyjunk](~itchyjunk@user/itchyjunk/x-7353470)
2022-05-21 14:24:57 +0200 <maerwald> ggVGc: you need an appropriate bootstrap GHC version
2022-05-21 14:25:23 +0200 <maerwald> so it boils down to manage to install an ancient GHC bindist
2022-05-21 14:25:50 +0200 <maerwald> which is not easy... even the oldest docker images might not suffices (e.g. old debian repos can't be fetched anymore)
2022-05-21 14:26:18 +0200 <ggVGc> Yeah, I assume it's a fairly deep rabbit hole
2022-05-21 14:26:27 +0200 <ggVGc> what do you reckon is the older GHC reasonable to chase?
2022-05-21 14:26:33 +0200 <ggVGc> Maybe working backwards is the best way...
2022-05-21 14:26:38 +0200 <ggVGc> until I hit a wall
2022-05-21 14:27:19 +0200tromp(~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl)
2022-05-21 14:28:01 +0200 <int-e> geekosaur: ghci will prefer the .o file over the .a file (it'll be a bit faster because there are fewer symbols to resolve)
2022-05-21 14:28:56 +0200 <maerwald> ggVGc: that looks like GHC 2.02, which I can't find bindists for. Usually you need an older GHC version to bootstrap something. The only older one than 2.02 with bindists seems to be https://downloads.haskell.org/~ghc/0.29/
2022-05-21 14:28:59 +0200 <maerwald> good luck, LOL
2022-05-21 14:29:14 +0200 <maerwald> (that's literally the oldest bindist that exists)
2022-05-21 14:31:05 +0200coot(~coot@213.134.190.95)
2022-05-21 14:31:50 +0200 <ggVGc> haha, thanks :) Will note this down until after I (hopefully) pass my single-variable analysis course on wednesday
2022-05-21 14:31:59 +0200 <ggVGc> decided to pursue a bachelors in physics at age 32...
2022-05-21 14:32:03 +0200sammelweis(~quassel@2601:401:8200:2d4c:bd9:d04c:7f69:eb10) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2022-05-21 14:32:31 +0200econo(uid147250@user/econo) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2022-05-21 14:35:19 +0200 <maerwald> sounds cool
2022-05-21 14:37:17 +0200sammelweis(~quassel@2601:401:8200:2d4c:bd9:d04c:7f69:eb10)
2022-05-21 14:43:44 +0200x88x88x(~x88x88x@2001:19f0:5:39a8:5400:3ff:feb6:73cb)
2022-05-21 14:44:26 +0200 <ente> nice, when's the time if not now
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2022-05-21 15:20:55 +0200dostoevsky(~5c42c5384@user/dostoevsky)
2022-05-21 15:22:15 +0200 <ggVGc> yep, exactly
2022-05-21 15:23:13 +0200 <ggVGc> I've wanted to for about 10 years, and I started both a physics education, a maths one and a CS one at different points during that time, and always ended up dropping out almost instantly because of work pulling me the other way
2022-05-21 15:23:32 +0200 <ggVGc> realised I'll still have this desire in the back of my head for another 10 years if I don't just do it
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2022-05-21 16:17:33 +0200shailangsa(~shailangs@host109-152-9-235.range109-152.btcentralplus.com) ()
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2022-05-21 16:27:52 +0200Hemmo(~IceChat95@2001:999:60c:9812:8cb8:ff0:5438:76b9)
2022-05-21 16:29:44 +0200tromp(~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl)
2022-05-21 16:29:53 +0200 <Hemmo> readPhone :: String -> String -> String -> Phone
2022-05-21 16:29:53 +0200 <Hemmo> readPhone pt cc pn = read pt::PhoneType
2022-05-21 16:29:58 +0200 <Hemmo> Oops
2022-05-21 16:30:07 +0200MajorBiscuit(~MajorBisc@86-88-79-148.fixed.kpn.net) (Quit: WeeChat 3.4)
2022-05-21 16:30:08 +0200 <Hemmo> Well anyway. I'm trying to make a function as so
2022-05-21 16:30:30 +0200 <Hemmo> I'm not sure how I can use the read function for each of them to check whether the parameter given is correct. Any help and pointers appreciated =)
2022-05-21 16:31:12 +0200 <Hemmo> I thought of guards, but not sure how I could use the read function in each of them and return an error if the type isnt right?
2022-05-21 16:31:38 +0200MajorBiscuit(~MajorBisc@86-88-79-148.fixed.kpn.net)
2022-05-21 16:31:52 +0200 <Hemmo> Like, read pt::PhoneType /= PhoneType, return error. If no error, then move on to checking the next argument?
2022-05-21 16:32:02 +0200yauhsien(~yauhsien@61-231-45-20.dynamic-ip.hinet.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-05-21 16:32:27 +0200 <geekosaur> read throws an exception on failure, so that'll be a pain. but there's readMaybe in Text.Read
2022-05-21 16:32:39 +0200yauhsien(~yauhsien@61-231-45-20.dynamic-ip.hinet.net)
2022-05-21 16:33:04 +0200machinedgod(~machinedg@24.105.81.50)
2022-05-21 16:33:05 +0200gurkenglas(~gurkengla@dslb-084-057-085-111.084.057.pools.vodafone-ip.de)
2022-05-21 16:33:24 +0200 <geekosaur> in any case you don't specify the type that way
2022-05-21 16:33:45 +0200 <geekosaur> hm, I guess that one will work as written, but it won't combine well
2022-05-21 16:34:19 +0200 <geekosaur> you may find Maybe's Monad instance helpful here
2022-05-21 16:36:00 +0200 <Hemmo> I actually want it to throw an exception though when it fails
2022-05-21 16:36:27 +0200 <Hemmo> The course I'm doing suggests using the read function
2022-05-21 16:37:04 +0200 <Hemmo> Like I thought of using the read to each of the strings and if one fails, it throws a custom exception. Like "Empty phone type" or "Wrong phone type"
2022-05-21 16:37:22 +0200yauhsien(~yauhsien@61-231-45-20.dynamic-ip.hinet.net) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2022-05-21 16:37:23 +0200 <geekosaur> read doesn't let you specify
2022-05-21 16:37:24 +0200 <Hemmo> Error = exception I guess?
2022-05-21 16:37:38 +0200 <geekosaur> > read "blurfl"
2022-05-21 16:37:40 +0200 <lambdabot> *Exception: Prelude.read: no parse
2022-05-21 16:37:55 +0200 <Hemmo> Hmm I see.
2022-05-21 16:39:00 +0200 <Hemmo> Ohh I may not need it.
2022-05-21 16:39:09 +0200 <Hemmo> I'll think about this a bit more =)
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2022-05-21 16:52:09 +0200spacenautx(~spacenaut@user/spacenautx)
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2022-05-21 17:00:14 +0200tromp(~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl)
2022-05-21 17:03:51 +0200 <hololeap> I keep using something like this in my projects and I'm thinking about making it into a package, but I wonder if there's something like it out there already:
2022-05-21 17:04:28 +0200 <hololeap> class Parsable t where parser :: (Stream s Identity Char) => Parsec s () (PartialParse t)
2022-05-21 17:05:20 +0200 <hololeap> data PartialParse t = PartialParse String t | CompleteParse t
2022-05-21 17:05:43 +0200 <geekosaur> isn't that mroe or less what attoparsec does?
2022-05-21 17:06:43 +0200 <hololeap> yeah attoparsec does do partial parsing. actually, that isn't the part I'm focusing on. I just keep making a Parsable class, whether or not I implement PartialParse is beside the point
2022-05-21 17:07:58 +0200 <hololeap> I'm pretty sure they even have a class like this in Cabal
2022-05-21 17:08:26 +0200kenaryn(~aurele@89-88-44-27.abo.bbox.fr)
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2022-05-21 17:11:58 +0200raehik(~raehik@cpc95906-rdng25-2-0-cust156.15-3.cable.virginm.net)
2022-05-21 17:11:59 +0200 <hololeap> ToText/FromText ?
2022-05-21 17:12:50 +0200cyphase(~cyphase@user/cyphase)
2022-05-21 17:16:25 +0200 <hololeap> for instance, parsing "Cabal-3.4.1.0" and getting a CabalPackage and CabalVersion from it, but also being able to convert back to "Cabal-3.4.1.0". there has to be a name for this
2022-05-21 17:16:27 +0200 <maerwald[m]> hololeap: hsve you checked out streamly's parsing API?
2022-05-21 17:16:34 +0200romesrf(~romes@185.5.8.134) (Quit: WeeChat 3.4.1)
2022-05-21 17:16:52 +0200motherfsck(~motherfsc@user/motherfsck) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2022-05-21 17:17:12 +0200 <hololeap> no
2022-05-21 17:17:53 +0200zebrag(~chris@user/zebrag)
2022-05-21 17:20:17 +0200 <hololeap> now I just want to know what to call my pair of classes. ToText/FromText ? Parsable/Renderable ?
2022-05-21 17:22:59 +0200 <hpc> Unserializable?
2022-05-21 17:23:04 +0200 <hpc> :P
2022-05-21 17:23:29 +0200 <geekosaur> there are several reversable parser packages on hackage, you may get some ideas from those
2022-05-21 17:23:37 +0200 <geekosaur> *reversible
2022-05-21 17:24:02 +0200raehik(~raehik@cpc95906-rdng25-2-0-cust156.15-3.cable.virginm.net) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
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2022-05-21 17:32:20 +0200 <hololeap> hm, Parsable/Printable seems good
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2022-05-21 18:10:32 +0200tromp(~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl)
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2022-05-21 18:23:28 +0200Everything(~Everythin@37.115.210.35)
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2022-05-21 18:29:11 +0200Vajb(~Vajb@hag-jnsbng11-58c3a8-176.dhcp.inet.fi) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2022-05-21 18:29:30 +0200Vajb(~Vajb@2001:999:231:409f:b036:bb6b:e334:8a8e)
2022-05-21 18:32:23 +0200gensyst(gensyst@user/gensyst)
2022-05-21 18:32:25 +0200king_gs(~Thunderbi@187.201.97.18)
2022-05-21 18:32:31 +0200FragByte(~christian@user/fragbyte) (Quit: Quit)
2022-05-21 18:32:36 +0200 <gensyst> Library for GTK, gtk vs. gi-gtk?
2022-05-21 18:32:41 +0200 <gensyst> maerwald, ^
2022-05-21 18:33:06 +0200 <gensyst> There seem to be two GTK "ecosystems". One is the normal one, the other is the gi- one
2022-05-21 18:33:10 +0200 <gensyst> what a PITA lol
2022-05-21 18:33:32 +0200 <maerwald> I didn't do it
2022-05-21 18:33:41 +0200 <geekosaur> I didn't know gtk2hs was even maintained any more
2022-05-21 18:33:47 +0200 <gensyst> I'm particularly interested in Chart library, and there is a Chart-gtk but there is no Chart-gi-gtk, so does that mean I should go with the normal non-gi "ecosystem"?
2022-05-21 18:34:06 +0200tzh(~tzh@c-24-21-73-154.hsd1.wa.comcast.net)
2022-05-21 18:34:12 +0200 <maerwald> I prefer gtk over gi, but that's not a strong opinion
2022-05-21 18:34:28 +0200nek0(~nek0@2a01:4f8:222:2b41::12)
2022-05-21 18:34:30 +0200FragByte(~christian@user/fragbyte)
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2022-05-21 18:37:22 +0200ezzieyguywuf(~Unknown@user/ezzieyguywuf) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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2022-05-21 18:42:48 +0200yauhsien(~yauhsien@61-231-45-20.dynamic-ip.hinet.net)
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2022-05-21 18:47:33 +0200raehik(~raehik@cpc95906-rdng25-2-0-cust156.15-3.cable.virginm.net)
2022-05-21 18:51:46 +0200 <pie_> How hard is it to implement a simple foldl?
2022-05-21 18:52:29 +0200kenaryn(~aurele@cre71-h03-89-88-44-27.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr)
2022-05-21 18:52:35 +0200kenaryn(~aurele@cre71-h03-89-88-44-27.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr) (Client Quit)
2022-05-21 18:52:59 +0200 <Franciman> pie_: it's easy
2022-05-21 18:53:20 +0200 <pie_> foldr was easy enough, I guess Ill stare at it a bit more I guess
2022-05-21 18:53:37 +0200 <Franciman> do you want answer?
2022-05-21 18:53:42 +0200 <pie_> not yet
2022-05-21 18:54:00 +0200 <Franciman> good because i don't know *evil laugh*
2022-05-21 18:54:03 +0200 <pie_> :P
2022-05-21 18:54:11 +0200 <Franciman> no it's not hard, i'm joking, just think a bit about it
2022-05-21 18:54:32 +0200 <geekosaur> you can get it from lambdabot, but seems to me like it should be reasonably obvious from seeing what it does
2022-05-21 18:54:41 +0200 <geekosaur> > foldl f z [a,b,c]
2022-05-21 18:54:44 +0200 <lambdabot> f (f (f z a) b) c
2022-05-21 18:54:48 +0200 <pie_> the problem is : you can build the foldr as you go splitting the cons and applying your function
2022-05-21 18:54:51 +0200kenaryn(~aurele@cre71-h03-89-88-44-27.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr)
2022-05-21 18:55:08 +0200 <pie_> but thats not how foldl works
2022-05-21 18:55:27 +0200 <EvanR> be careful with operationally explaining the foldr and foldl implementations
2022-05-21 18:55:34 +0200 <EvanR> laziness plays tricks on you
2022-05-21 18:55:43 +0200 <pie_> oh im actually doing this in racket :V
2022-05-21 18:55:51 +0200 <EvanR> :facepalm:
2022-05-21 18:55:55 +0200 <pie_> but i guess im thining about it in both languages
2022-05-21 18:55:58 +0200 <pie_> *thinking
2022-05-21 18:56:03 +0200 <EvanR> well then foldl is basically a for loop
2022-05-21 18:56:29 +0200 <Franciman> is it tail recursive? ahah
2022-05-21 18:56:35 +0200 <Franciman> that's a relevant question for scheme
2022-05-21 18:56:36 +0200 <Franciman> i guess
2022-05-21 18:56:44 +0200 <Franciman> and it's also a small hint :(
2022-05-21 18:56:46 +0200 <Franciman> sory
2022-05-21 18:57:10 +0200 <Philonous> Is it strange or undesirable to mix and match csc2hs and c2hs in the same project?
2022-05-21 18:57:37 +0200eggplantade(~Eggplanta@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:84c:3a94:a15f:5a37)
2022-05-21 18:57:47 +0200 <geekosaur> it doesn't matter
2022-05-21 18:58:10 +0200 <geekosaur> gtk2hs will use its c2hs regardless of what you use for any other foreign imports/exports
2022-05-21 18:58:33 +0200 <c_wraith> it might be a bit awkward in terms of requiring more context switching if you're working on those parts frequently, but it won't cause any problems
2022-05-21 18:58:51 +0200 <Philonous> hsc2hs, I meant
2022-05-21 18:58:51 +0200Vajb(~Vajb@2001:999:231:409f:b036:bb6b:e334:8a8e) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2022-05-21 18:58:56 +0200 <geekosaur> well, ideally you never see the gtk2hsc2hs stuff
2022-05-21 18:59:25 +0200 <Philonous> I generall prefer c2hs, but c2hs has trouble dealing with nested structs and other edge cases that hsc2hs seems to take in strides
2022-05-21 18:59:38 +0200 <Philonous> OTOH c2hs makes function marshalling a breeze
2022-05-21 19:00:17 +0200Vajb(~Vajb@hag-jnsbng11-58c3a8-176.dhcp.inet.fi)
2022-05-21 19:00:32 +0200 <Philonous> Well, perhaps "breeze" is a bit of an overstatement, but at least it brings the pain down to bearable levels
2022-05-21 19:01:13 +0200 <geekosaur> gtk2hs's version of c2hs generally doesnt have those problems because it's been tuned to how gtk+ does it
2022-05-21 19:01:14 +0200 <pie_> ok I think I got it
2022-05-21 19:01:55 +0200 <geekosaur> which is pretty mechanical because glib is pretty mechanical if somewhat horrifying
2022-05-21 19:03:07 +0200 <EvanR> pie_, foldl = "straightforward accumulating loop" is the case in many languages, and is also why it goes off the rails in haskell, by default
2022-05-21 19:03:19 +0200 <geekosaur> again you never look at those parts, it's generally done by Setup.hs during package configuration and if anything goes wrong it usually means there's something wrong with your gtk+ install (usually a missing devel package)
2022-05-21 19:03:59 +0200kimjetwav(~user@2607:fea8:2362:b400:1204:50a1:ea87:8687) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2022-05-21 19:04:20 +0200harveypwca(~harveypwc@2601:246:c180:a570:3828:d8:e523:3f67) (Quit: Leaving)
2022-05-21 19:04:58 +0200Vajb(~Vajb@hag-jnsbng11-58c3a8-176.dhcp.inet.fi) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2022-05-21 19:07:24 +0200MajorBiscuit(~MajorBisc@86-88-79-148.fixed.kpn.net) (Quit: WeeChat 3.4)
2022-05-21 19:07:30 +0200sander(~sander@user/sander) (Quit: So long! :))
2022-05-21 19:07:55 +0200 <pie_> lol no nevermind i accidentally wrote foldr again xD
2022-05-21 19:08:18 +0200 <Philonous> Ah, I'm not dealing with gtk, I just want to bind to an existing C-library, and none of the solutions (hsc2hs, c2hs, inline-c) really seem to do the job by themselves
2022-05-21 19:08:37 +0200Vajb(~Vajb@hag-jnsbng11-58c3a8-176.dhcp.inet.fi)
2022-05-21 19:08:39 +0200 <Philonous> Hence the mixing and matching
2022-05-21 19:10:25 +0200sander(~sander@user/sander)
2022-05-21 19:10:30 +0200 <gensyst> maerwald, would love to hear more on your weak opinion
2022-05-21 19:10:34 +0200 <gensyst> on gtk > gi-gtk
2022-05-21 19:11:44 +0200tromp(~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl)
2022-05-21 19:18:20 +0200 <EvanR> pie_, btw what is the standard racket thing that does foldl, what's it called
2022-05-21 19:18:37 +0200 <pie_> I have no idea I'm just playing with my roommate's homework
2022-05-21 19:19:05 +0200pfharlock(~pfharlock@cpe-74-138-169-108.kya.res.rr.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-05-21 19:19:22 +0200dcoutts_(~duncan@host86-150-41-206.range86-150.btcentralplus.com)
2022-05-21 19:19:34 +0200pfharlock(~pfharlock@cpe-74-138-169-108.kya.res.rr.com)
2022-05-21 19:21:24 +0200Topsi(~Topsi@dyndsl-095-033-022-188.ewe-ip-backbone.de)
2022-05-21 19:21:24 +0200 <monochrom> With foldl f z xs, you can think of z as an accumulator parameter and try to do tail recursion.
2022-05-21 19:21:43 +0200coot(~coot@213.134.190.95)
2022-05-21 19:22:19 +0200 <hololeap> what are your opinions of UndecidableSuperClasses? it could be "neat" to have Parsable be a superclass of Printable, and vice-versa
2022-05-21 19:22:28 +0200dcoutts(~duncan@host213-122-143-140.range213-122.btcentralplus.com) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2022-05-21 19:22:47 +0200 <hololeap> seems smelly though
2022-05-21 19:24:24 +0200 <hpc> at that point they might as well be one class
2022-05-21 19:24:41 +0200pavonia(~user@user/siracusa) (Quit: Bye!)
2022-05-21 19:25:31 +0200Vajb(~Vajb@hag-jnsbng11-58c3a8-176.dhcp.inet.fi) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2022-05-21 19:25:33 +0200 <EvanR> ok it seems to be called... foldl
2022-05-21 19:26:41 +0200 <EvanR> yes isn't that set theory 101, A < B, B < A => A = B
2022-05-21 19:27:11 +0200Vajb(~Vajb@2001:999:231:409f:b036:bb6b:e334:8a8e)
2022-05-21 19:27:50 +0200 <EvanR> A ⊆ B, B ⊆ A => A = B
2022-05-21 19:29:26 +0200 <hpc> EvanR: now try saying the same thing about mutually imported modules and see what people here say :D
2022-05-21 19:29:49 +0200 <EvanR> to not do it? xD
2022-05-21 19:30:33 +0200 <hpc> if only
2022-05-21 19:33:55 +0200 <monochrom> Oh people do say "so merge into the same module".
2022-05-21 19:36:20 +0200 <hololeap> there's also hs-boot files
2022-05-21 19:36:51 +0200dsrt^(~dsrt@c-24-126-228-147.hsd1.ga.comcast.net)
2022-05-21 19:37:54 +0200 <hpc> hs-boot is just a fancy way of saying "third module"
2022-05-21 19:38:03 +0200 <c_wraith> merging them is better than using hs-boot files. but it would be nice if GHC just supported mutually recursive modules
2022-05-21 19:39:08 +0200 <hpc> nah, i like knowing that my modules are actually independent of each other
2022-05-21 19:39:18 +0200 <hpc> imagine allowing mutually recursive package dependencies
2022-05-21 19:39:30 +0200 <hololeap> whoohoo
2022-05-21 19:39:51 +0200 <hpc> nooooooooo, that way lies madness
2022-05-21 19:40:21 +0200 <hololeap> just make a single hackage mono-package mono-module
2022-05-21 19:40:37 +0200 <hololeap> namespaces be damned
2022-05-21 19:40:53 +0200 <hpc> also the proper rebuttal would have been "imagine allowing mutually recursive function definitions" :P
2022-05-21 19:41:22 +0200 <geekosaur> isn't there one in acme-something?
2022-05-21 19:41:30 +0200 <raehik> Question about runtime impact of typeclasses. If I use some concrete typeclass method in a function, there's no dictionary passing/other overhead, right? it just inserts the definition
2022-05-21 19:41:31 +0200king_gs(~Thunderbi@187.201.97.18) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2022-05-21 19:41:51 +0200 <c_wraith> raehik: usually.
2022-05-21 19:42:16 +0200 <geekosaur> most of the time it should be resolved, unless it's a recursively polymorphic usage
2022-05-21 19:42:18 +0200 <hololeap> really, namespacing is the main reason why you would want mutually dependent modules
2022-05-21 19:42:23 +0200 <raehik> c_wraith: fab, I imagine there's weird cases but this is all monomorphic boring
2022-05-21 19:42:43 +0200 <raehik> ty
2022-05-21 19:42:44 +0200 <pie_> these arent the same when defining foldl but they kind of look the same to me:
2022-05-21 19:42:44 +0200 <pie_> (f (foldl f initial tail) head)
2022-05-21 19:42:44 +0200 <pie_> (foldl f (f head initial) tail)
2022-05-21 19:43:06 +0200 <pie_> can anyone help me make sense of this?
2022-05-21 19:43:18 +0200 <EvanR> they look different
2022-05-21 19:43:51 +0200 <pie_> the first one looks like foldl proper, im not sure what the second one is doing
2022-05-21 19:44:05 +0200 <c_wraith> raehik: there are some cases involving multiple modules and typeclass-polymorphic functions that aren't actually part of the class.
2022-05-21 19:44:06 +0200 <EvanR> oh now I don't understand the context
2022-05-21 19:44:07 +0200 <pie_> Im not even 100% sure at this point how I came up with it
2022-05-21 19:44:42 +0200king_gs(~Thunderbi@187.201.97.18)
2022-05-21 19:44:42 +0200 <pie_> the signature for this foldl is: (foldl2 f initial lst)
2022-05-21 19:44:44 +0200tromp(~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2022-05-21 19:45:12 +0200 <raehik> c_wraith: OK. This usage is mostly to consolidate definitions for something only used concretely (but I want to switch between X definitions)
2022-05-21 19:45:16 +0200 <c_wraith> raehik: whether those get specialized at compile time depends on whether they're online (or have specialize pragmas matching your type already)
2022-05-21 19:45:24 +0200 <c_wraith> err. *inline
2022-05-21 19:45:50 +0200 <monochrom> This is where infix notation with explicit parenthesizing is actually helpful, therefore Racket syntax is being unhelpful.
2022-05-21 19:46:31 +0200 <maerwald> gensyst: I dunno, I remember the API being vastly different in a couple of places
2022-05-21 19:46:57 +0200 <maerwald> gtk felt better (maybe because it was less of a direct translation?)
2022-05-21 19:47:01 +0200 <monochrom> You can use either an induction proof or expansion by hand to find out whether you're achieving "a + (b + (c + z))" or "((z + a) + b) + c"
2022-05-21 19:48:36 +0200 <pie_> ok
2022-05-21 19:49:05 +0200 <monochrom> This is why I don't teach foldr and foldl in isolation, or require students to invent them.
2022-05-21 19:49:36 +0200 <pie_> oh i see
2022-05-21 19:49:54 +0200 <pie_> since the (f ...) is in the position of initial, i need to expand the instances of initial
2022-05-21 19:50:10 +0200 <monochrom> I teach summing/multiplying a list two ways, and map, and reverse. Then their egregious boilerplate screams at you, and then foldr and foldl are obvious.
2022-05-21 19:52:15 +0200nate1(~nate@98.45.169.16)
2022-05-21 19:53:17 +0200 <monochrom> And these days I don't even emphasize foldl or foldr. I emphasize Monoid and Foldable.
2022-05-21 19:54:26 +0200 <pie_> I think there's 4 variants here; one gets you a + (b + (c + d))), the other gets that left-assoc; the other two variants might be the same thing reversed
2022-05-21 19:54:57 +0200 <pie_> d + (...)
2022-05-21 19:55:13 +0200 <pie_> but I dont "see" it yet
2022-05-21 19:55:49 +0200 <EvanR> what type are you folding over, finite list?
2022-05-21 19:55:52 +0200christiansen(~christian@83-95-137-75-dynamic.dk.customer.tdc.net)
2022-05-21 19:55:59 +0200 <pie_> yeah
2022-05-21 19:56:00 +0200 <c_wraith> those are very difficult to write for lists, because [] is a singly-linked list
2022-05-21 19:56:02 +0200 <monochrom> finite lists in Racket.
2022-05-21 19:57:03 +0200MajorBiscuit(~MajorBisc@86-88-79-148.fixed.kpn.net)
2022-05-21 19:57:18 +0200nate1(~nate@98.45.169.16) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2022-05-21 19:57:46 +0200 <pie_> this is the mess Im currently looking at https://bpa.st/YI2A
2022-05-21 19:57:56 +0200stackdroid18(14094@user/stackdroid)
2022-05-21 19:58:24 +0200 <pie_> sorry for the mess of human languages heh, I should fix that
2022-05-21 19:58:32 +0200arjun(~arjun@user/arjun)
2022-05-21 19:58:59 +0200 <monochrom> (f initial fej)
2022-05-21 20:00:00 +0200 <monochrom> Also the pattern for the empty list is () not (list)
2022-05-21 20:00:20 +0200econo(uid147250@user/econo)
2022-05-21 20:00:31 +0200 <monochrom> or maybe '()
2022-05-21 20:01:12 +0200 <pie_> yeah I figured theres something more appropriate for nil but I didnt bother checking (re: playing with my roommate's homework)
2022-05-21 20:01:13 +0200Vajb(~Vajb@2001:999:231:409f:b036:bb6b:e334:8a8e) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2022-05-21 20:01:33 +0200 <pie_> '() appears to work
2022-05-21 20:01:52 +0200 <monochrom> If your roommate thought that the empty list was written (list), they should drop the course now.
2022-05-21 20:01:53 +0200Vajb(~Vajb@hag-jnsbng11-58c3a8-176.dhcp.inet.fi)
2022-05-21 20:02:10 +0200 <pie_> heh
2022-05-21 20:02:24 +0200 <EvanR> damn
2022-05-21 20:02:37 +0200 <EvanR> please tell us this course involves haskell in some form
2022-05-21 20:03:05 +0200 <pie_> I dare fathom the lecturer used (list)
2022-05-21 20:03:21 +0200 <pie_> no Im pretty sure it was mostly java
2022-05-21 20:03:31 +0200 <EvanR> (list) is like... a function call right xD
2022-05-21 20:04:23 +0200 <pie_> probably
2022-05-21 20:05:03 +0200 <monochrom> OK I now see how (list) can work. But it's an XY problem.
2022-05-21 20:10:35 +0200pfharlock(~pfharlock@cpe-74-138-169-108.kya.res.rr.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-05-21 20:10:39 +0200turlando(~turlando@user/turlando) (Quit: turlando)
2022-05-21 20:11:04 +0200pfharlock(~pfharlock@cpe-74-138-169-108.kya.res.rr.com)
2022-05-21 20:11:37 +0200 <pie_> fixed the names https://bpa.st/VXMA
2022-05-21 20:12:46 +0200turlando(~turlando@93.51.40.51)
2022-05-21 20:12:46 +0200turlando(~turlando@93.51.40.51) (Changing host)
2022-05-21 20:12:46 +0200turlando(~turlando@user/turlando)
2022-05-21 20:12:53 +0200 <monochrom> With foldr you don't think in terms of "acc".
2022-05-21 20:13:29 +0200 <pie_> yeah that was a WIP accident
2022-05-21 20:13:37 +0200 <monochrom> Why in foldl you have (f h initial) not (f initial h)?
2022-05-21 20:14:05 +0200MajorBiscuit(~MajorBisc@86-88-79-148.fixed.kpn.net) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2022-05-21 20:14:27 +0200zincy(~zincy@2a00:23c8:970c:4801:2054:62a8:f46a:a313) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-05-21 20:14:30 +0200 <pie_> No good reason, I wasnt sure I had the recursion structure right in the first place.
2022-05-21 20:14:40 +0200 <pie_> so yes that needs to be fixed
2022-05-21 20:17:29 +0200tromp(~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl)
2022-05-21 20:22:59 +0200raehik(~raehik@cpc95906-rdng25-2-0-cust156.15-3.cable.virginm.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2022-05-21 20:25:52 +0200 <pie_> oh
2022-05-21 20:26:04 +0200pie_squints
2022-05-21 20:26:19 +0200 <pie_> I think part of the reason some of this stuff is working is because im testing with f = cons
2022-05-21 20:26:46 +0200pretty_dumm_guy(trottel@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/prettydummguy/x-88029655)
2022-05-21 20:27:12 +0200 <monochrom> A test case cannot be more correct than the human's expected answer.
2022-05-21 20:28:01 +0200 <monochrom> foldl cons z [a,b,c] = (cons (cons (cons z a) b) c) is the correct answer.
2022-05-21 20:28:17 +0200 <monochrom> If you see '(a b c z) then it's wrong.
2022-05-21 20:29:01 +0200 <monochrom> (cons (cons (cons z a) b) c) is likely printed as (((z . a) . b) . c) in Racket.
2022-05-21 20:29:07 +0200 <pie_> I dont, I was looking at stuff like ((((((() . 1) . 2) . 3) . 4) . 5) . 6)
2022-05-21 20:29:16 +0200 <monochrom> OK good.
2022-05-21 20:29:48 +0200 <monochrom> That's the correct answer for foldl cons '() '(1 2 3 4 5 6)
2022-05-21 20:29:58 +0200 <pie_> well, Im not sure which variant im running right now
2022-05-21 20:29:59 +0200 <pie_> aha
2022-05-21 20:30:32 +0200 <EvanR> that's causing my haskell brain to explode
2022-05-21 20:30:47 +0200 <monochrom> This is why I don't have a Haskell brain.
2022-05-21 20:31:05 +0200 <pie_> at least your brain can into programming
2022-05-21 20:31:20 +0200 <pie_> my roommate is better than me but he is lazy
2022-05-21 20:31:47 +0200coot(~coot@213.134.190.95) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2022-05-21 20:31:55 +0200 <monochrom> Your roommate should switch to Haskell.
2022-05-21 20:32:26 +0200 <pie_> If he finishes his exams I intend to nag him about it
2022-05-21 20:33:16 +0200king_gs(~Thunderbi@187.201.97.18) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2022-05-21 20:35:31 +0200wroathe(~wroathe@206-55-188-8.fttp.usinternet.com)
2022-05-21 20:35:31 +0200wroathe(~wroathe@206-55-188-8.fttp.usinternet.com) (Changing host)
2022-05-21 20:35:31 +0200wroathe(~wroathe@user/wroathe)
2022-05-21 20:35:44 +0200king_gs(~Thunderbi@187.201.97.18)
2022-05-21 20:41:07 +0200 <pie_> OH
2022-05-21 20:41:08 +0200 <pie_> OHű
2022-05-21 20:41:11 +0200 <pie_> the joke
2022-05-21 20:41:12 +0200 <pie_> my head
2022-05-21 20:42:00 +0200 <monochrom> :)
2022-05-21 20:44:53 +0200geekosaur(~geekosaur@xmonad/geekosaur) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-05-21 20:47:01 +0200geekosaur(~geekosaur@xmonad/geekosaur)
2022-05-21 20:47:35 +0200ehammarstrom_(~ehammarst@62-20-203-39-no182.tbcn.telia.com)
2022-05-21 20:48:00 +0200 <pie_> sidenote, so what if I dont want foldl with cons to reverse my list?
2022-05-21 20:48:25 +0200cheater(~Username@user/cheater) (Quit: (BitchX) A gentleman is one who knows how to play the bagpipes, but chooses not to.)
2022-05-21 20:48:36 +0200 <pie_> which is really what I originally wanted to solve
2022-05-21 20:48:57 +0200ehammarstrom(~ehammarst@62-20-203-39-no182.tbcn.telia.com) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2022-05-21 20:49:07 +0200 <monochrom> ((((((() . 1) . 2) . 3) . 4) . 5) . 6) isn't a reversal. The order is still 1,2,3,4,5,6.
2022-05-21 20:49:08 +0200cheater(~Username@user/cheater)
2022-05-21 20:50:14 +0200 <pie_> well, its ((((((() . 6) . 5) . 4) . 3) . 2) . 1)
2022-05-21 20:50:26 +0200 <pie_> but youre probably still saying the right thing
2022-05-21 20:50:30 +0200 <monochrom> (f initial head).
2022-05-21 20:50:51 +0200werneta(~werneta@70-142-214-115.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net)
2022-05-21 20:52:28 +0200 <pie_> uh the only one of my four folds that seems to be right-ish doesnt do that. well, hold on.
2022-05-21 20:52:29 +0200ehammarstrom(~ehammarst@62-20-203-39-no182.tbcn.telia.com)
2022-05-21 20:53:08 +0200 <monochrom> There is only one foldr and only one foldl. The other two are generally ignored.
2022-05-21 20:53:21 +0200 <gensyst> maerwald, thanks for pointing me towards gtk with Haskell. This is so cool. Desktop apps in Haskell!
2022-05-21 20:54:12 +0200 <gensyst> maerwald, and for custom data visualizations GTK really is a no-brainer. You get to create visualizations with what custom controls you want. And for this, why bother learning something extra like Mathematica? Why not just use a standard cross-platform GTK? Skills that also apply in other fields!
2022-05-21 20:54:21 +0200zincy(~zincy@2a00:23c8:970c:4801:2054:62a8:f46a:a313)
2022-05-21 20:54:23 +0200 <maerwald> gensyst: I dunno... I've switched mostly to terminal these days. I used to be a big gtk fan 10 years ago
2022-05-21 20:54:27 +0200ehammarstrom_(~ehammarst@62-20-203-39-no182.tbcn.telia.com) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2022-05-21 20:54:50 +0200 <maerwald> if browser would run (properly) in terminal, there'd be nothing left
2022-05-21 20:55:13 +0200 <hpc> i am still waiting for browsers to run properly in desktop environments
2022-05-21 20:55:16 +0200 <arjun> maerwald, can it run crysis tho
2022-05-21 20:55:19 +0200 <EvanR> no discussion of gtk haskell can be complete without obligatory reference to Manatee and their integrated haskell gtk "environment"
2022-05-21 20:55:20 +0200 <gensyst> lol
2022-05-21 20:56:32 +0200 <monochrom> I wonder if you accept: Run GUI browser through VNC or any remote desktop solution, but the receiving end pumps it through mplayer's asciiart driver.
2022-05-21 20:56:48 +0200 <maerwald> hpc: :D
2022-05-21 20:57:15 +0200 <maerwald> I mean... just an opengl app would do too. GUIs for games are plenty
2022-05-21 20:57:23 +0200 <maerwald> like myGUI
2022-05-21 20:57:35 +0200HotblackDesiato_(~HotblackD@gateway/tor-sasl/hotblackdesiato)
2022-05-21 20:59:04 +0200c_aprakasa[m](~caprakasa@2001:470:69fc:105::cfd6)
2022-05-21 20:59:12 +0200 <hololeap> anyone know how to make haddock render this (highlighted in red) so that it isn't just one long line, but has breaks like in the definition just above it? https://pasteboard.co/27ajNRCuiwHz.png
2022-05-21 21:00:16 +0200 <EvanR> gui toolkits give you vector graphics, people insist on using opengl to make a gui instead, opengl (still) can't do vector graphics
2022-05-21 21:00:47 +0200 <EvanR> why is this world mad
2022-05-21 21:01:16 +0200 <monochrom> too much lead in the air from burning leaded gasoline
2022-05-21 21:01:32 +0200 <EvanR> veritasium's at it again
2022-05-21 21:01:34 +0200HotblackDesiato(~HotblackD@gateway/tor-sasl/hotblackdesiato) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2022-05-21 21:01:41 +0200 <arjun> it all went downhill after Harambe tbh
2022-05-21 21:01:57 +0200 <hololeap> I would posit that madness is the default state and we should be grateful for any sanity left
2022-05-21 21:02:11 +0200 <EvanR> that is so dark
2022-05-21 21:02:34 +0200 <arjun> EvanR, Electricty does not flow though wires : D
2022-05-21 21:02:49 +0200EvanRthrows the computer through the wall
2022-05-21 21:02:59 +0200 <shapr> argh
2022-05-21 21:03:05 +0200 <arjun> also, there is a hole at the bottom of Mathematics
2022-05-21 21:03:11 +0200 <EvanR> aaaaaaaaa stop it
2022-05-21 21:03:25 +0200 <arjun> ANALOG COMPUTERS
2022-05-21 21:03:43 +0200 <EvanR> I waited months for that follow up to get AI!
2022-05-21 21:04:03 +0200 <arjun> instead it was a chip company ad
2022-05-21 21:04:12 +0200 <hololeap> basically my attitude haha: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheAntiNihilist
2022-05-21 21:05:28 +0200 <maerwald> EvanR: cairo has OpenGL as backend, no?
2022-05-21 21:05:38 +0200 <EvanR> not really
2022-05-21 21:05:48 +0200 <maerwald> well, yes
2022-05-21 21:05:58 +0200 <maerwald> it says so on the website
2022-05-21 21:06:16 +0200 <EvanR> yeah been reading that "fact" for a while
2022-05-21 21:06:38 +0200 <EvanR> the closest thing I found to that is google's acquired tech "skia"
2022-05-21 21:07:51 +0200 <pie_> monochrom: this is what im looking at right now jdoodle.com/ia/r8g
2022-05-21 21:07:59 +0200 <pie_> * https://www.jdoodle.com/ia/r8g
2022-05-21 21:08:28 +0200 <monochrom> But why is it a 4pt font...
2022-05-21 21:10:22 +0200arjun(~arjun@user/arjun) (Quit: Leaving)
2022-05-21 21:11:25 +0200wroathe(~wroathe@user/wroathe) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2022-05-21 21:12:01 +0200 <EvanR> gensyst, you can also use these browser-in-a-can frontends for visuals
2022-05-21 21:12:09 +0200 <EvanR> electron, something or other
2022-05-21 21:12:39 +0200 <EvanR> ghcjs or websocket to a haskell core program
2022-05-21 21:12:59 +0200 <hololeap> why isn't there a brick-like interface for gui-building yet
2022-05-21 21:13:39 +0200 <shapr> I want that too now that you mention it
2022-05-21 21:14:31 +0200 <hololeap> I have done very little with gui stuff, so the answer doesn't come strictly from laziness.
2022-05-21 21:14:35 +0200 <hololeap> *question
2022-05-21 21:14:56 +0200 <EvanR> strictly from laziness?
2022-05-21 21:15:14 +0200 <hololeap> lol
2022-05-21 21:15:46 +0200Sgeo(~Sgeo@user/sgeo)
2022-05-21 21:16:20 +0200 <sm> brick-like ? aren't most of the existing gui frameworks similar ?
2022-05-21 21:16:44 +0200 <sm> you compose widgets, provide event handlers, and let it run ?
2022-05-21 21:17:13 +0200dsrt^(~dsrt@c-24-126-228-147.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2022-05-21 21:17:28 +0200 <geekosaur> yeh, I thought brick was modeled around GUIs
2022-05-21 21:18:31 +0200 <hololeap> can you give me another example of this, sm? in my experience looking through the limited GUI frameworks available to haskell-space, it seems to be mostly wrappers around imperative styles
2022-05-21 21:18:43 +0200dsrt^(~dsrt@c-24-126-228-147.hsd1.ga.comcast.net)
2022-05-21 21:20:26 +0200daveakre[m](~daveakrem@2001:470:69fc:105::1:88b7)
2022-05-21 21:20:34 +0200 <hololeap> also, brick is pretty much one step away from going full FRP in terms of "callbacks"
2022-05-21 21:20:43 +0200yauhsien(~yauhsien@61-231-39-34.dynamic-ip.hinet.net)
2022-05-21 21:21:13 +0200 <geekosaur> FRP's realy the only other option. frameworks exist but are less common, in part because everyone seems to have their own idea of what FRP is
2022-05-21 21:23:11 +0200 <hololeap> I have seen "qt-declarative" somewhere, and I wonder if it could be used to build a declarative-style gui framework for haskell
2022-05-21 21:23:47 +0200 <EvanR> continuous time denotational programming xD
2022-05-21 21:25:04 +0200yauhsien(~yauhsien@61-231-39-34.dynamic-ip.hinet.net) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2022-05-21 21:25:12 +0200causal(~user@50.35.83.177)
2022-05-21 21:26:13 +0200 <geekosaur> I think that was https://hackage.haskell.org/package/hsqml ? which isn't maintained
2022-05-21 21:27:24 +0200 <sm> hololeap: I've never used a haskell GUI framework but don't they all basically require you to declare a scene built up of widgets ?
2022-05-21 21:28:25 +0200 <monochrom> pie_: On my school computer, (foldl cons '() '(1 2 3)) = (((() . 1) . 2) . 3). I don't know wtf jdoodle.com is doing, but adding debugging printfs and/or avoiding the name "foldl" reveals that every time it calls foldl it is not always your foldl.
2022-05-21 21:28:26 +0200 <hololeap> I haven't used any either, just looked at the docs for one or two, and decided it was basically any other language inside of a 'do' block
2022-05-21 21:28:34 +0200 <sm> and then (except for the FRP ones) define imperative event handlers
2022-05-21 21:29:37 +0200zincy(~zincy@2a00:23c8:970c:4801:2054:62a8:f46a:a313) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2022-05-21 21:29:39 +0200 <pie_> monochrom: ugh wow
2022-05-21 21:29:53 +0200 <pie_> well not as if i had any idea how racket scoping really works
2022-05-21 21:30:02 +0200 <monochrom> No no no.
2022-05-21 21:30:10 +0200 <monochrom> jdoodle is wrong.
2022-05-21 21:30:18 +0200 <monochrom> Nothing to do with Racket.
2022-05-21 21:30:26 +0200 <monochrom> Racket on my school computer gives no surprise.
2022-05-21 21:30:26 +0200 <pie_> i renamed foldr to foldr3 and now its doing better
2022-05-21 21:30:50 +0200 <pie_> and foldl to foldl3
2022-05-21 21:30:50 +0200 <monochrom> Delete jdoodle from your mind. It is broken.
2022-05-21 21:31:38 +0200 <monochrom> Either that, or add to your brain: Both jdoodle and stackoverflow are wrong.
2022-05-21 21:32:03 +0200kenaryn(~aurele@cre71-h03-89-88-44-27.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr) (Quit: leaving)
2022-05-21 21:32:08 +0200 <pie_> is stackoverflow wrong now or just in general? :P
2022-05-21 21:32:23 +0200 <geekosaur> in general
2022-05-21 21:32:32 +0200 <pie_> ok but overall this is much more consistent wow
2022-05-21 21:32:32 +0200 <geekosaur> it's kinda a lousy source of knowledge
2022-05-21 21:32:34 +0200 <monochrom> OK I only have one anecdote from a year ago.
2022-05-21 21:32:53 +0200 <pie_> so now my stuff _does_ show that the "other" approach for each of them is like a reverse, or something
2022-05-21 21:32:57 +0200 <monochrom> err two years, but who's counting
2022-05-21 21:33:17 +0200 <pie_> yeah i was surprised last summer was a year ago
2022-05-21 21:33:20 +0200 <pie_> whoda thunk
2022-05-21 21:33:25 +0200 <EvanR> one does not simply forget something named jdoodle
2022-05-21 21:33:34 +0200 <monochrom> We should be grateful that stackoverflow and jdoodle are broken.
2022-05-21 21:33:39 +0200 <hpc> for a while now, the best way to use stackoverflow has been to find a sufficiently related question to your problem, scroll through the solutions, and mine them for further google keywords
2022-05-21 21:33:40 +0200 <geekosaur> the problem I have with SO is the people who know more are disincentivized from responding because they have to balance responses with moderation work that's usually thankless and often a bit argumentative
2022-05-21 21:33:41 +0200 <hololeap> I tried to make a strange gui framework using reflex and gloss, with recursive datatypes. I nearly broke my brain working on that haha.
2022-05-21 21:33:42 +0200 <pie_> brb last minute pizza run
2022-05-21 21:33:57 +0200 <monochrom> Because how else can we distinguish students who worked from students who googled.
2022-05-21 21:33:58 +0200kenaryn(~aurele@cre71-h03-89-88-44-27.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr)
2022-05-21 21:34:10 +0200 <geekosaur> so you get responsesfrom a few oldtimers who work well with its incentive structure and a bunch of newbies
2022-05-21 21:34:11 +0200 <hpc> code snippets are often subtly wrong, or explanations are lacking in critical details
2022-05-21 21:34:14 +0200 <pie_> hololeap: meanwhile i want to write GUIs and I cant even fold proeprly :P
2022-05-21 21:34:34 +0200 <pie_> hololeap: thats always fun
2022-05-21 21:34:47 +0200 <hololeap> pie_ if you really grok fold you'll be halfway to understanding most things
2022-05-21 21:35:01 +0200 <hololeap> because fold is just another form of composability
2022-05-21 21:35:35 +0200 <hololeap> really, it's the essence of composability
2022-05-21 21:37:18 +0200wootehfoot(~wootehfoo@user/wootehfoot) (Quit: Leaving)
2022-05-21 21:37:29 +0200king_gs(~Thunderbi@187.201.97.18) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2022-05-21 21:37:57 +0200 <hololeap> just wait... someday you will understand how to fold endomorphisms on Categories :p
2022-05-21 21:38:46 +0200 <hololeap> (the joke is because it's a simple concept but I used big words)
2022-05-21 21:38:50 +0200 <darkling> And after that, it's a small step to folding space from Ix...
2022-05-21 21:38:53 +0200king_gs(~Thunderbi@187.201.97.18)
2022-05-21 21:40:09 +0200 <hololeap> and someday... time itself...
2022-05-21 21:40:12 +0200raehik(~raehik@cpc95906-rdng25-2-0-cust156.15-3.cable.virginm.net)
2022-05-21 21:40:46 +0200 <hololeap> maybe life is just a right fold along the spine of the future
2022-05-21 21:40:53 +0200machinedgod(~machinedg@24.105.81.50) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2022-05-21 21:41:09 +0200 <darkling> It's the lazy evaluation that gets you, though.
2022-05-21 21:41:22 +0200gensyst(gensyst@user/gensyst) (Quit: Leaving)
2022-05-21 21:42:09 +0200benin(~benin@183.82.31.141) (Quit: The Lounge - https://thelounge.chat)
2022-05-21 21:42:25 +0200 <hololeap> yeah, I get too lazy and the thunks overwhelm my memory, so I learned to be more eager
2022-05-21 21:42:35 +0200Everything(~Everythin@37.115.210.35) ()
2022-05-21 21:43:18 +0200coot(~coot@213.134.190.95)
2022-05-21 21:43:26 +0200 <hololeap> XD
2022-05-21 21:44:58 +0200 <EvanR> integral is a continuous fold
2022-05-21 21:48:29 +0200MajorBiscuit(~MajorBisc@86-88-79-148.fixed.kpn.net)
2022-05-21 21:49:34 +0200hololeap(~hololeap@user/hololeap) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2022-05-21 21:52:48 +0200raehik(~raehik@cpc95906-rdng25-2-0-cust156.15-3.cable.virginm.net) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2022-05-21 21:53:24 +0200raehik(~raehik@cpc95906-rdng25-2-0-cust156.15-3.cable.virginm.net)
2022-05-21 21:54:24 +0200zincy(~zincy@2a00:23c8:970c:4801:2054:62a8:f46a:a313)
2022-05-21 21:55:06 +0200hololeap(~hololeap@user/hololeap)
2022-05-21 21:57:49 +0200 <pie_> xD <darkling> And after that, it's a small step to folding space from Ix...
2022-05-21 21:58:48 +0200 <pie_> the place the bene gesserit dare not look <darkling> It's the lazy evaluation that gets you, though.
2022-05-21 21:59:05 +0200pfharlock(~pfharlock@cpe-74-138-169-108.kya.res.rr.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-05-21 21:59:28 +0200pfharlock(~pfharlock@cpe-74-138-169-108.kya.res.rr.com)
2022-05-21 21:59:29 +0200MajorBiscuit(~MajorBisc@86-88-79-148.fixed.kpn.net) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2022-05-21 21:59:54 +0200 <hololeap> once you understand that composition is a monoid, monads are monoids, and do notation is just syntatctic sugar for composing monads (monoids), you see that any haskell program is just one big fold
2022-05-21 22:00:33 +0200 <EvanR> exactly
2022-05-21 22:00:50 +0200 <pie_> i was just sitting on the toilet and i was like
2022-05-21 22:00:57 +0200 <pie_> fold exchanges structure for computation
2022-05-21 22:01:05 +0200 <pie_> (well, if thats what f does)
2022-05-21 22:01:07 +0200 <EvanR> and commutative monoids are just monoids in a category of monoids, or something
2022-05-21 22:01:18 +0200 <pie_> because i was looking at the wiki page
2022-05-21 22:01:22 +0200 <pie_> well...tbf it basically said that
2022-05-21 22:02:36 +0200 <hololeap> I think the "hardest" thing about category theory is how self-recursive it is
2022-05-21 22:02:50 +0200 <hololeap> everything is everything
2022-05-21 22:02:53 +0200 <EvanR> it's the pile of jargon
2022-05-21 22:03:03 +0200 <hololeap> it gets all holistic
2022-05-21 22:03:20 +0200 <hololeap> holographic even
2022-05-21 22:03:22 +0200 <EvanR> for each theorem there is like 1000 definitions
2022-05-21 22:04:02 +0200 <EvanR> and most showcasing of category theorem is wholely concerned with telling what something is
2022-05-21 22:04:08 +0200 <hololeap> yeah I can't look at ncatlab without having a tiny aneurysm
2022-05-21 22:04:08 +0200 <EvanR> telling you*
2022-05-21 22:04:18 +0200 <pie_> https://wiki.haskell.org/Fold "One can view a right fold as replacing the nil at the end of the list with a specific value, and each cons with a specific other function. "
2022-05-21 22:04:31 +0200 <EvanR> yeah foldr is doing constructor replacement
2022-05-21 22:04:37 +0200 <EvanR> foldl is an accumulating loop
2022-05-21 22:05:09 +0200romesrf(~romes@185.5.8.134)
2022-05-21 22:05:12 +0200 <monochrom> I am generally weary of wordy descriptions.
2022-05-21 22:05:31 +0200 <maerwald> EvanR: you mean foldr'?
2022-05-21 22:05:35 +0200 <maerwald> err, foldl'
2022-05-21 22:05:45 +0200 <EvanR> the prime just makes it eager
2022-05-21 22:05:57 +0200 <monochrom> An imprecise wording can make you feel good about yourself but it has too many interpretations and you're bound to think of an unintended one.
2022-05-21 22:06:04 +0200 <maerwald> then I have no idea what you mean with "accumulating"
2022-05-21 22:06:19 +0200 <maerwald> if you mean memory, then yeah
2022-05-21 22:06:35 +0200 <pie_> EvanR: ok fine i give up for 5 minutes
2022-05-21 22:06:38 +0200zincy(~zincy@2a00:23c8:970c:4801:2054:62a8:f46a:a313) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-05-21 22:06:38 +0200 <monochrom> A precise description is just too damn long, you won't actually read it, you will read maybe 5% of it and then manufacture an imprecise version, now goto the above.
2022-05-21 22:06:39 +0200 <EvanR> language is a game, this is how we lose
2022-05-21 22:07:16 +0200 <hololeap> pie_, really jump over to understanding foldMap, then you will see what we are talking about with all this Monoid stuff
2022-05-21 22:07:36 +0200 <pie_> maybe this week is not the best week for that
2022-05-21 22:07:38 +0200 <pie_> or the next two
2022-05-21 22:07:48 +0200 <monochrom> Whereas a symbolic example can do wonder. foldr (%) z (a : (b : (c : []))) = a % (b % (c % z)). Short and precise and clear.
2022-05-21 22:07:58 +0200 <hololeap> I _never_ define foldr for a Foldable instance, always foldMap. it is _so_ much more intuitive
2022-05-21 22:08:09 +0200jgeerds(~jgeerds@d53604b0.access.ecotel.net)
2022-05-21 22:08:21 +0200 <monochrom> I now teach map with "for example map f [a, b, c] = [f a, f b, f c]"
2022-05-21 22:08:34 +0200_ht(~quassel@231-169-21-31.ftth.glasoperator.nl) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-05-21 22:08:47 +0200 <monochrom> A formula is worth a thousand pictures, therefore a million words.
2022-05-21 22:09:50 +0200 <hololeap> a monoid is something we generally already understand. combine two things. there's a thing that does nothing when you combine it with other things.
2022-05-21 22:10:38 +0200 <hololeap> but people don't like Greek apparently
2022-05-21 22:10:40 +0200 <monochrom> If you know of associative binary operators and identity elements, then you already know monoids. THE END.
2022-05-21 22:11:34 +0200mmhat(~mmh@p200300f1c7397f7fee086bfffe095315.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2022-05-21 22:12:19 +0200 <pie_> ok cool i know monoids
2022-05-21 22:12:21 +0200 <pie_> sort of
2022-05-21 22:12:33 +0200 <pie_> now what
2022-05-21 22:12:47 +0200 <monochrom> Now you can take a look at Foldable? :)
2022-05-21 22:12:51 +0200 <EvanR> now checkout the category theory version of monoids
2022-05-21 22:13:10 +0200romesrf(~romes@185.5.8.134) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2022-05-21 22:13:11 +0200Guest|84(~Guest|84@176.59.43.23)
2022-05-21 22:13:17 +0200 <sm> well, that was not easy, but.. https://haskell-links.org now also works without javascript
2022-05-21 22:14:13 +0200 <monochrom> http://www.cs.utoronto.ca/~trebla/CSCC24-2021-Summer/05-haskell-fold.html is how I teach foldr, foldl, Foldable.
2022-05-21 22:15:48 +0200Guest|84(~Guest|84@176.59.43.23) (Client Quit)
2022-05-21 22:17:09 +0200 <EvanR> honestly I just pull up the defining equations on lambdabot and that explains it (if you can read haskell)
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2022-05-21 22:43:34 +0200 <hpc> sm: nice
2022-05-21 22:44:15 +0200machinedgod(~machinedg@24.105.81.50)
2022-05-21 22:44:25 +0200 <hpc> sm: my inner jerk wants to point out you can do css queries on the value of a text input and use that for no-js realtime search :D
2022-05-21 22:45:58 +0200 <sm> thanks! :) good to know
2022-05-21 22:46:48 +0200 <sm> that's an interesting no-js alternative for client-side search, but wouldn't work for no-css browsers though
2022-05-21 22:47:07 +0200 <sm> (someone asked to make this work in links)
2022-05-21 22:47:22 +0200 <hpc> makes sense
2022-05-21 22:48:46 +0200 <hpc> yeah, that method is a terrible idea anyway
2022-05-21 22:49:09 +0200smfiles it away for future wizardry
2022-05-21 22:49:10 +0200 <hpc> iirc the way you would have to do it involves a rule for every partial match
2022-05-21 22:49:42 +0200 <hpc> because you can do dom_thing =~ pattern but not string =~ dom_thing
2022-05-21 22:49:59 +0200smslides that file into the fire
2022-05-21 22:50:52 +0200 <hpc> maybe if you embedded a turing machine in css first...
2022-05-21 22:51:05 +0200 <geekosaur> ugh
2022-05-21 22:51:21 +0200 <geekosaur> wouldn't be surprised if it's possible but it's probably even uglier
2022-05-21 22:51:54 +0200 <geekosaur> (I mean, there's a turing machine in plain vi somewhere)
2022-05-21 22:52:34 +0200 <hpc> that wouldn't be surprising, regex + iteration usually equals turing machine
2022-05-21 22:53:49 +0200 <geekosaur> notsure it even uses regex
2022-05-21 22:54:00 +0200 <geekosaur> just the ability to execute commands in registers
2022-05-21 22:54:26 +0200 <geekosaur> (@x executes register x)
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