2022/04/02

2022-04-02 00:01:04 +0200shapr(~user@pool-173-73-44-186.washdc.fios.verizon.net)
2022-04-02 00:10:19 +0200mcgroin(~mcgroin@roc37-h01-176-170-197-243.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr)
2022-04-02 00:10:56 +0200__monty__(~toonn@user/toonn) (Quit: leaving)
2022-04-02 00:17:28 +0200mvk(~mvk@2607:fea8:5ce3:8500::3800) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2022-04-02 00:21:28 +0200whatsupdoc(uid509081@id-509081.hampstead.irccloud.com) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2022-04-02 00:21:35 +0200bitdex(~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2022-04-02 00:22:40 +0200 <abastro[m]> Hm how can I access #haskell-in-depth
2022-04-02 00:22:45 +0200 <abastro[m]> From matrix
2022-04-02 00:23:01 +0200fizbin(~fizbin@c-73-33-197-160.hsd1.nj.comcast.net)
2022-04-02 00:24:29 +0200bitdex(~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex)
2022-04-02 00:24:53 +0200 <geekosaur> #haskell-in-depth:libera.chat I think
2022-04-02 00:26:47 +0200 <abastro[m]> Thank you!!!
2022-04-02 00:27:33 +0200fizbin(~fizbin@c-73-33-197-160.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2022-04-02 00:28:44 +0200MajorBiscuit(~MajorBisc@2a02:a461:129d:1:6d4c:38a4:18b7:4b48)
2022-04-02 00:34:54 +0200ProfSimm(~ProfSimm@87.227.196.109) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2022-04-02 00:38:13 +0200acidjnk(~acidjnk@p200300d0c7049f94e8cdd499a79a3878.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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2022-04-02 00:44:22 +0200MajorBiscuit(~MajorBisc@2a02:a461:129d:1:6d4c:38a4:18b7:4b48) (Quit: WeeChat 3.4)
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2022-04-02 03:59:09 +0200yauhsien(~yauhsien@61-231-37-33.dynamic-ip.hinet.net)
2022-04-02 03:59:34 +0200 <abastro[m]> I think when we use haskell, we are enjoying advantage of laziness without noticing esp. when we employ abstractions. Am I the only one with this opinion?
2022-04-02 04:02:03 +0200mon_aaraj(~MonAaraj@user/mon-aaraj/x-4416475) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2022-04-02 04:03:26 +0200dsrt^(~dsrt@c-24-99-107-170.hsd1.ga.comcast.net)
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2022-04-02 04:08:50 +0200robertm(robertm@lattice.rojoma.com) (Quit: WeeChat 3.0)
2022-04-02 04:13:59 +0200 <shapr> abastro[m]: I would agree with that
2022-04-02 04:14:43 +0200robertm(robertm@lattice.rojoma.com)
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2022-04-02 04:29:49 +0200[itchyjunk](~itchyjunk@user/itchyjunk/x-7353470) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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2022-04-02 04:34:00 +0200[itchyjunk](~itchyjunk@user/itchyjunk/x-7353470)
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2022-04-02 04:36:35 +0200FinnElija(~finn_elij@user/finn-elija/x-0085643) (Killed (NickServ (Forcing logout FinnElija -> finn_elija)))
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2022-04-02 05:07:21 +0200 <shapr> wow, part/join spam is much
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2022-04-02 05:09:06 +0200ChanServ+o litharge
2022-04-02 05:09:06 +0200litharge+b *!*@208.190.197.222
2022-04-02 05:09:16 +0200litharge-o litharge
2022-04-02 05:09:59 +0200motherfsck(~motherfsc@user/motherfsck)
2022-04-02 05:10:46 +0200ChanServ+o shapr
2022-04-02 05:12:13 +0200gingeh(~gingeh@2001:8003:1c2a:b600:6547:4150:79c1:8a30)
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2022-04-02 05:16:21 +0200mmaruseacph2(~mihai@198.199.100.72) (Quit: So long and thanks for all the lambdas)
2022-04-02 05:18:28 +0200 <gingeh> Hi, I'm fairly new to Haskell. I am writing a very basic interpreter (https://paste.tomsmeding.com/eT561V0J) and want to know if there is a way lines 11 and 12 could be simplified. Perhaps using something like a state monad?
2022-04-02 05:22:35 +0200 <dsal> I don't think a State Monad is what you need there. The structure seems a little odd to me, though.
2022-04-02 05:26:26 +0200Zemyla(~Zemyla@2603-8080-4901-6095-ad10-d42b-e8a2-48d2.res6.spectrum.com)
2022-04-02 05:26:57 +0200 <glguy> gingeh: https://paste.tomsmeding.com/RwcJYkCH
2022-04-02 05:27:04 +0200 <glguy> dsal: maybe you'll find it interesting, too?
2022-04-02 05:30:01 +0200ChaiTRex(~ChaiTRex@user/chaitrex) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-04-02 05:30:04 +0200 <dsal> Yeah, that's neat. I still don't think I'd use state for that, though.
2022-04-02 05:30:23 +0200ChaiTRex(~ChaiTRex@user/chaitrex)
2022-04-02 05:30:30 +0200segfaultfizzbuzz(~segfaultf@2602:306:cd3c:9350:4091:e9b1:bc9f:dc79)
2022-04-02 05:30:46 +0200 <glguy> it's the same idea as using parser combinators
2022-04-02 05:30:53 +0200zebrag(~chris@user/zebrag) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2022-04-02 05:31:08 +0200Codaraxis__(~Codaraxis@user/codaraxis)
2022-04-02 05:32:03 +0200 <monochrom> If you use Haskell's built-in recursion, you no longer use your own stack state.
2022-04-02 05:32:14 +0200Zemyla_(~ec2-user@ec2-54-80-174-150.compute-1.amazonaws.com)
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2022-04-02 05:32:32 +0200Zemyla_Zemyla
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2022-04-02 05:33:35 +0200 <monochrom> But you can also choose to limit yourself to tail recursion so you're as close to a low level loop as Haskell allows, and then you maintain your own stack and you can make it your state of the State monad.
2022-04-02 05:34:12 +0200 <monochrom> Although, the only state operations are push and pop, so it is not the full power of State either.
2022-04-02 05:34:43 +0200Codaraxis_(~Codaraxis@user/codaraxis) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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2022-04-02 05:34:51 +0200 <monochrom> In this case any or all of Graham Hutton's "calculating a compiler" papers apply.
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2022-04-02 05:36:01 +0200 <gingeh> glguy: that looks promising! I'll play around with that to see if it makes things easier.
2022-04-02 05:36:49 +0200yauhsien(~yauhsien@61-231-37-33.dynamic-ip.hinet.net)
2022-04-02 05:37:31 +0200 <gingeh> monochrom: "If you use Haskell's built-in recursion, you no longer use your own stack state." What do you mean by that?
2022-04-02 05:38:43 +0200 <monochrom> Err nevermind this is a Polish-notation calculator. So yeah what glguy says about parsing, this is simply parsing Polish notation. And s/stack/input stream/ .
2022-04-02 05:39:07 +0200ChanServ+o litharge
2022-04-02 05:39:07 +0200litharge-bo *!*@208.190.197.222 litharge
2022-04-02 05:39:36 +0200 <monochrom> It is true that "StateT [Token] Maybe" is poor man's parser monad.
2022-04-02 05:48:13 +0200rawley(~rawley@216-197-141-102.nbfr.hsdb.sasknet.sk.ca) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-04-02 05:50:44 +0200 <dsal> gingeh: Where was that list format specified? I think that's the part that's thrown me off. I'd expected to have parsed something into a tree structure that's more natural to evaluate instead of doing the same parsing phase again in the evaluator.
2022-04-02 05:51:03 +0200 <dsal> I realized here I'd never actually seen forward polish notation.
2022-04-02 05:51:25 +0200 <gingeh> This is just something I made while bored in class
2022-04-02 05:51:35 +0200 <gingeh> I didn't put much design thought into it
2022-04-02 05:54:19 +0200 <dsal> Ah, OK. It's a sensible exercise. In practice, I end up with the expression being more tree-like. e.g., data Expr a = Constant a | Add Expr Expr | Mul Expr Expr etc...
2022-04-02 06:00:32 +0200abastro(~abab9579@220.75.216.63) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
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2022-04-02 06:10:32 +0200sammelweis(~quassel@2601:401:8200:2d4c:bd9:d04c:7f69:eb10) (Quit: https://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.)
2022-04-02 06:16:37 +0200 <abastro[m]> Can you backtrack with `StateT [Token] Maybe`?
2022-04-02 06:17:25 +0200 <glguy> You'd switch from Maybe to []
2022-04-02 06:18:17 +0200x88x88x(~x88x88x@2001:19f0:5:39a8:5400:3ff:feb6:73cb)
2022-04-02 06:18:50 +0200 <abastro[m]> Oh, so that is poor man's parser monad
2022-04-02 06:19:08 +0200 <glguy> also
2022-04-02 06:34:55 +0200jao(~jao@cpc103048-sgyl39-2-0-cust502.18-2.cable.virginm.net) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2022-04-02 06:40:08 +0200wroathe(~wroathe@user/wroathe) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2022-04-02 06:40:46 +0200 <Zemyla> Do you tokenize before parsing?
2022-04-02 06:45:07 +0200Codaraxis_(~Codaraxis@user/codaraxis)
2022-04-02 06:45:13 +0200arjun(~arjun@user/arjun) (Quit: Leaving)
2022-04-02 06:45:25 +0200 <dsal> Most of the time, I just do everything in one pass with megaparsec.
2022-04-02 06:47:38 +0200 <dsal> My current work project is using attoparsec, but similar concept, I built up the final data structure as I'm going.
2022-04-02 06:48:53 +0200Codaraxis__(~Codaraxis@user/codaraxis) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2022-04-02 06:49:55 +0200 <Zemyla> So would tokenizing make things faster or simpler?
2022-04-02 06:55:08 +0200 <dsal> I don't have performance or simplicity problems with any of my parsers, so I've not put thought into it.
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2022-04-02 07:08:55 +0200 <abastro[m]> Why not do tokenizers tho?
2022-04-02 07:10:30 +0200 <dsal> I don't understand what kind of improvements people are suggesting. Can you be concrete about what needs to be better in a particular parser?
2022-04-02 07:10:35 +0200azimut(~azimut@gateway/tor-sasl/azimut) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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2022-04-02 07:13:50 +0200 <dolio> Parser combinators don't really require factoring out a separate tokenization stage as much as traditional parser designs.
2022-04-02 07:14:24 +0200yauhsien(~yauhsien@61-231-37-33.dynamic-ip.hinet.net)
2022-04-02 07:14:26 +0200 <dolio> Getting a token can just be a parser.
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2022-04-02 08:31:52 +0200 <abastro[m]> I mean, getting a token would be parser
2022-04-02 08:32:08 +0200vicfred(~vicfred@user/vicfred) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2022-04-02 08:32:37 +0200 <abastro[m]> So I was suggesting more like, gathering PC doing lexing together - so that you could distinguish which is interacting with char more easily
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2022-04-02 12:58:32 +0200geekosaur(~geekosaur@xmonad/geekosaur) (Killed (NickServ (GHOST command used by allbery_b)))
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2022-04-02 13:00:20 +0200cfricke(~cfricke@user/cfricke) (Quit: WeeChat 3.4.1)
2022-04-02 13:01:41 +0200 <abastro> What is the idiomatic way to represent a function `f :: u -> v` where f (a <> b) = f a <> f b?
2022-04-02 13:01:42 +0200BlackboardN(~nathan@user/BlackboardN) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2022-04-02 13:02:05 +0200 <abastro> When `u`, `v` are at least semigroup, ofc
2022-04-02 13:02:34 +0200 <abastro> (Also `f mempty = mempty` in case of Monoid)
2022-04-02 13:03:11 +0200 <abastro> I want a type which denotes that the restriction holds.
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2022-04-02 13:48:27 +0200unit73e(~emanuel@2001:818:e8dd:7c00:32b5:c2ff:fe6b:5291)
2022-04-02 13:49:11 +0200 <unit73e> hello. looks like the best way to handle packages is just using ghcup. at least in arch.
2022-04-02 13:49:19 +0200 <unit73e> avoids all the issues
2022-04-02 13:49:36 +0200 <geekosaur> that's generally the recommendation, yes
2022-04-02 13:52:20 +0200mcgroin(~mcgroin@roc37-h01-176-170-197-243.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr)
2022-04-02 13:57:06 +0200 <Franciman> unit73e: i like that way too ^^
2022-04-02 13:58:22 +0200bahamas(~lucian@84.232.140.158)
2022-04-02 14:04:09 +0200 <unit73e> hls now works flawlessly. unfortunately arch packages never really worked very well with haskell.
2022-04-02 14:04:34 +0200 <unit73e> not even the static versions
2022-04-02 14:05:46 +0200 <unit73e> still on the nobody asked xp3 battle. making args now.
2022-04-02 14:11:17 +0200zer0bitz(~zer0bitz@2001:2003:f750:a200:a519:6081:f3da:f296) ()
2022-04-02 14:16:26 +0200merijn(~merijn@c-001-001-001.client.esciencecenter.eduvpn.nl) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2022-04-02 14:17:35 +0200razetime(~quassel@49.207.199.125)
2022-04-02 14:18:43 +0200 <abastro> Anyone knows answer to my question?
2022-04-02 14:20:14 +0200jgeerds(~jgeerds@d5364b87.access.ecotel.net) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2022-04-02 14:21:28 +0200gawen(~gawen@user/gawen) (Quit: cya)
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2022-04-02 14:24:21 +0200mbuf(~Shakthi@171.61.151.80)
2022-04-02 14:27:20 +0200 <abastro> (Is it fine to say it again?)
2022-04-02 14:27:38 +0200 <tdammers> it generally won't increase your odds of getting an answer
2022-04-02 14:27:50 +0200 <tdammers> maybe if it's been hours
2022-04-02 14:27:50 +0200mcgroin(~mcgroin@roc37-h01-176-170-197-243.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2022-04-02 14:28:02 +0200 <geekosaur> you might want to ask it on reddit or the discourse too
2022-04-02 14:29:12 +0200mcgroin(~mcgroin@roc37-h01-176-170-197-243.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr)
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2022-04-02 14:46:23 +0200 <abastro> I see, that could be betteer
2022-04-02 14:46:46 +0200 <abastro> Perhaps you mean you do not have an easy answer for this?
2022-04-02 14:47:28 +0200zeenk(~zeenk@2a02:2f04:a313:d600:8d26:ec9f:3ff6:fc94) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2022-04-02 14:50:03 +0200mikoto-chan(~mikoto-ch@213.177.151.239)
2022-04-02 14:51:09 +0200 <geekosaur> I just mean if you're not getting answers here you might need a wider audience
2022-04-02 14:51:34 +0200 <geekosaur> speaking more as a mod than as a Haskell person (sadly, I don't know nearly as much Haskell as I sometimes seem to)
2022-04-02 14:53:08 +0200unit73e(~emanuel@2001:818:e8dd:7c00:32b5:c2ff:fe6b:5291) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2022-04-02 14:53:12 +0200vysn(~vysn@user/vysn) (Quit: WeeChat 3.4)
2022-04-02 14:55:03 +0200nek0(~nek0@nek0.eu)
2022-04-02 14:55:51 +0200 <abastro> Oh, I see. I thought you were master haskeller (and perhaps you really are & suffering imposter syndrome)
2022-04-02 14:58:54 +0200 <geekosaur> no, there's quite a lot I don't know yet
2022-04-02 14:59:25 +0200 <geekosaur> I think a lot of my rep comes from being the main xmonad maintainer… but 90% of that is twiddling the right X server bits, which I *do* know well
2022-04-02 15:01:05 +0200 <geekosaur> but I confused myself (as usual) and possiblky confused someone else last night trying to explain "forall" last night: I understand it in practice but can't describe it properly for the life of me
2022-04-02 15:03:15 +0200 <liz> abastro: i'm not sure if there's a type that represents that restriction, but that sort of function is a homomorphism of semigroups
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2022-04-02 15:12:09 +0200eggplantade(~Eggplanta@108-201-191-115.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
2022-04-02 15:12:52 +0200AlexZenon(~alzenon@178.34.161.168) (Quit: ;-)
2022-04-02 15:13:02 +0200Alex_test(~al_test@178.34.161.168) (Quit: ;-)
2022-04-02 15:13:08 +0200 <abastro> Yep, I want to represent homomorphism of semigroups
2022-04-02 15:13:08 +0200AlexNoo(~AlexNoo@178.34.161.168) (Quit: Leaving)
2022-04-02 15:13:18 +0200 <abastro> Feels bad just using function
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2022-04-02 15:35:16 +0200 <kuribas> albet70: hi
2022-04-02 15:35:18 +0200 <kuribas> albet70: do you get RankN types now?
2022-04-02 15:37:49 +0200 <abastro> I guess my question is actually more suited for Haskell Discourse. Thank you!
2022-04-02 15:42:33 +0200yauhsien(~yauhsien@61-231-37-33.dynamic-ip.hinet.net)
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2022-04-02 17:15:31 +0200[itchyjunk](~itchyjunk@user/itchyjunk/x-7353470)
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2022-04-02 17:57:40 +0200boxscape_(~boxscape_@p4ff0be5f.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2022-04-02 17:57:57 +0200 <boxscape_> is there a way to tell cabal which ghc binary it should use?
2022-04-02 17:58:07 +0200 <maerwald> cabal build -w ghc-8.10.7
2022-04-02 17:58:17 +0200 <boxscape_> ah, thanks
2022-04-02 17:58:56 +0200 <maerwald> or: ghcup run --ghc 8.10.7 cabal -- build
2022-04-02 17:59:16 +0200 <boxscape_> okay
2022-04-02 17:59:41 +0200 <maerwald> more useful for vscode and such
2022-04-02 17:59:53 +0200 <boxscape_> right, I see
2022-04-02 18:00:07 +0200VanceIsM7[m](~vanceism7@2001:470:69fc:105::3ad) (Quit: You have been kicked for being idle)
2022-04-02 18:00:12 +0200lavaman(~lavaman@c-174-63-118-52.hsd1.ma.comcast.net)
2022-04-02 18:01:26 +0200odnes_(~odnes@5-203-146-18.pat.nym.cosmote.net)
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2022-04-02 18:05:29 +0200 <monochrom> Every program evolves towards including an email client and a run command. >:)
2022-04-02 18:05:52 +0200 <abastro> Can include ghc-options in `cabal.project` as well
2022-04-02 18:06:14 +0200 <abastro> Oh, I meant `with-compiler: ghc-8.10.7
2022-04-02 18:06:27 +0200 <boxscape_> oh, yeah, using cabal.project is a good idea
2022-04-02 18:09:07 +0200vysn(~vysn@user/vysn)
2022-04-02 18:10:15 +0200FragByte_(~christian@user/fragbyte)
2022-04-02 18:12:11 +0200 <maerwald> monochrom: ghcup run --ghc 8.10.7 -- cabal exec stack -- --system-ghc runghc -- --version
2022-04-02 18:12:32 +0200 <monochrom> haha
2022-04-02 18:12:46 +0200 <maerwald> that actually works (in a project dir)
2022-04-02 18:12:49 +0200 <monochrom> Truly the next level of software envelopment.
2022-04-02 18:13:00 +0200Psybur(~Psybur@2600:1003:b1a9:25a8:85a:5624:5153:ebdd) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2022-04-02 18:13:01 +0200FragByte(~christian@user/fragbyte) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2022-04-02 18:13:01 +0200FragByte_FragByte
2022-04-02 18:13:15 +0200 <maerwald> funnilly, specifing stack first doesn't work because it messes with GHC_PACKAGE_PATH
2022-04-02 18:13:28 +0200mbuf(~Shakthi@171.61.151.80) (Quit: Leaving)
2022-04-02 18:13:38 +0200 <geekosaur> that's what I was just wondering, cabal exec should as well
2022-04-02 18:13:49 +0200 <geekosaur> although you may need to be inside a project for that
2022-04-02 18:14:29 +0200eggplantade(~Eggplanta@108-201-191-115.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
2022-04-02 18:14:35 +0200Psybur(~Psybur@2600:4040:4022:4000:19c2:a1cd:6600:38ba)
2022-04-02 18:14:40 +0200 <maerwald> is just missing a `docker run`
2022-04-02 18:15:28 +0200 <monochrom> If specify stack first, perhaps insert a middle shell script that umesses GHC_PACKAGE_PATH
2022-04-02 18:16:25 +0200ec(~ec@gateway/tor-sasl/ec)
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2022-04-02 18:18:30 +0200xkuru(~xkuru@user/xkuru)
2022-04-02 18:19:38 +0200eggplantade(~Eggplanta@108-201-191-115.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
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2022-04-02 18:21:38 +0200 <maerwald> wrt email, I think https://github.com/soywod/himalaya might actually integrate well with ghcup xD
2022-04-02 18:25:21 +0200boxscape_(~boxscape_@p4ff0be5f.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Quit: Connection closed)
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2022-04-02 18:25:52 +0200boxscape_3boxscape_
2022-04-02 18:25:55 +0200tzh(~tzh@c-24-21-73-154.hsd1.or.comcast.net)
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2022-04-02 18:27:59 +0200 <kuribas> :t foldl
2022-04-02 18:28:00 +0200 <lambdabot> Foldable t => (b -> a -> b) -> b -> t a -> b
2022-04-02 18:28:18 +0200img(~img@user/img)
2022-04-02 18:28:21 +0200 <kuribas> > foldl f a [b, c]
2022-04-02 18:28:23 +0200 <lambdabot> f (f a b) c
2022-04-02 18:28:50 +0200 <kuribas> @src foldl
2022-04-02 18:28:50 +0200 <lambdabot> foldl f z [] = z
2022-04-02 18:28:50 +0200 <lambdabot> foldl f z (x:xs) = foldl f (f z x) xs
2022-04-02 18:28:57 +0200boxscape_(~boxscape_@p4ff0be5f.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2022-04-02 18:37:02 +0200lbseale(~ep1ctetus@user/ep1ctetus)
2022-04-02 18:37:29 +0200 <kuribas> @src foldl'
2022-04-02 18:37:29 +0200 <lambdabot> foldl' f a [] = a
2022-04-02 18:37:29 +0200 <lambdabot> foldl' f a (x:xs) = let a' = f a x in a' `seq` foldl' f a' xs
2022-04-02 18:38:37 +0200 <boxscape_> @src foldl
2022-04-02 18:38:37 +0200 <lambdabot> foldl f z [] = z
2022-04-02 18:38:37 +0200 <lambdabot> foldl f z (x:xs) = foldl f (f z x) xs
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2022-04-02 20:08:48 +0200Digit(~user@user/digit) (i'll be back when i'm haskelling harder.)
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2022-04-02 20:40:57 +0200hololeap(~hololeap@user/hololeap)
2022-04-02 20:53:05 +0200phma(phma@2001:5b0:211f:57f8:a451:bb44:e55e:abda) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2022-04-02 20:54:29 +0200phma(phma@2001:5b0:210f:36e8:e24d:2973:8920:8f2a)
2022-04-02 20:54:59 +0200waleee(~waleee@2001:9b0:213:7200:cc36:a556:b1e8:b340)
2022-04-02 20:56:46 +0200Pickchea(~private@user/pickchea)
2022-04-02 21:03:58 +0200madjestic(~madjestic@88-159-247-120.fixed.kpn.net)
2022-04-02 21:06:51 +0200gamara(~gamara@2607:fea8:1e5f:8df0:b897:10fa:588b:45bc)
2022-04-02 21:09:02 +0200 <gamara> Why is this invalid syntax? https://paste.tomsmeding.com/AeEbRie9 How do i write this with where statements?
2022-04-02 21:11:03 +0200 <hpc> i would expect that to be an error for using (/) on Ints
2022-04-02 21:11:13 +0200 <hpc> is this just going in a file and you're doing like "ghci foo.hs"?
2022-04-02 21:13:16 +0200 <gamara> I am using a file
2022-04-02 21:13:37 +0200 <gamara> Not much interest in using the interpreter other than for info
2022-04-02 21:13:38 +0200merijn(~merijn@c-001-001-001.client.esciencecenter.eduvpn.nl)
2022-04-02 21:14:02 +0200 <hpc> hmm, not sure why it would be failing then
2022-04-02 21:14:30 +0200 <hpc> i suspected something like pasting it into ghci, where it misinterprets multiline inputs
2022-04-02 21:14:33 +0200 <gamara> I think you are right getting the error No instance for (Fractional Int) arising from a use of ‘/’
2022-04-02 21:14:46 +0200 <gamara> changing type to double fixes it
2022-04-02 21:15:07 +0200 <gamara> I need to learn to read
2022-04-02 21:15:07 +0200 <hpc> oh, cool
2022-04-02 21:15:51 +0200stevenxl(~stevenxl@c-73-72-2-81.hsd1.il.comcast.net)
2022-04-02 21:16:23 +0200 <gamara> If I want to use int I would do quot z x y
2022-04-02 21:16:26 +0200x88x88x(~x88x88x@149.28.53.172)
2022-04-02 21:18:12 +0200 <gamara> thanks for the help
2022-04-02 21:18:53 +0200 <geekosaur> that has an indentation error
2022-04-02 21:19:09 +0200 <geekosaur> the let-in needs everything indented properly
2022-04-02 21:19:34 +0200 <gamara> it was a copy paste from a textbook
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2022-04-02 21:49:43 +0200Psybur(~Psybur@137.sub-97-47-71.myvzw.com)
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2022-04-02 21:56:34 +0200frostbyte_(~uid@2001:bc8:2117:100::)
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2022-04-02 21:56:51 +0200Graham31415(~Graham@user/Graham31415)
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2022-04-02 21:58:32 +0200geekosaur(~geekosaur@xmonad/geekosaur)
2022-04-02 22:00:07 +0200 <frostbyte_> (completey new to haskell) I'm surprised to find that `runhaskell helloworld.hs > /dev/full` is correctly reporting an error: "helloworld.hs: <stdout>: hPutChar: resource exhausted (No space left on device)", but the compiled version of helloworld is not. Does anyone know why?
2022-04-02 22:00:53 +0200 <frostbyte_> ghc --version: "The Glorious Glasgow Haskell Compilation System, version 9.2.1"
2022-04-02 22:01:13 +0200Psybur(~Psybur@137.sub-97-47-71.myvzw.com) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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2022-04-02 22:02:07 +0200TonyStone(~TonyStone@2603-7080-8607-c36a-e4f8-bd3f-9136-d580.res6.spectrum.com)
2022-04-02 22:03:33 +0200mvk(~mvk@2607:fea8:5ce3:8500::3800) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2022-04-02 22:03:38 +0200Psybur(~Psybur@2600:1003:b103:720d:4903:f699:2ddf:4e24)
2022-04-02 22:05:04 +0200 <frostbyte_> helloworld.hs: 'main = putStrLn "Hello, world!"'
2022-04-02 22:06:12 +0200pavonia(~user@user/siracusa)
2022-04-02 22:08:53 +0200vicfred(~vicfred@user/vicfred)
2022-04-02 22:10:33 +0200 <avpx> frostbyte_: What platform are you on? I wasn't able to repro on Windows/MinGW and Mac doesn't have /dev/full
2022-04-02 22:10:45 +0200 <frostbyte_> Debian Linux
2022-04-02 22:11:28 +0200 <avpx> It seems surprising to me too
2022-04-02 22:11:47 +0200 <hpc> frostbyte_: i remember reading about that a while ago, a bunch of languages have this issue
2022-04-02 22:12:22 +0200 <hpc> they just ignore the return status of the syscall
2022-04-02 22:12:36 +0200jtm(~jtm@user/jtm) (Leaving)
2022-04-02 22:12:45 +0200 <frostbyte_> Indeed. It was seeing that article that led me to try. I wanted it to not be true, as one of the things appealing to me about haskell is correctness.
2022-04-02 22:13:14 +0200mvk(~mvk@2607:fea8:5ce3:8500::3800)
2022-04-02 22:13:16 +0200Graham31415(~Graham@user/Graham31415) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2022-04-02 22:13:25 +0200 <frostbyte_> I'm particularly surprised that there's a difference between the two execution methods.
2022-04-02 22:13:41 +0200 <frostbyte_> Rather than both go unreported.
2022-04-02 22:13:56 +0200Graham31415(~Graham@user/Graham31415)
2022-04-02 22:13:58 +0200 <hpc> there's probably some generic syscall wrapper in the interpreter maybe?
2022-04-02 22:14:03 +0200hpcisn't a ghc dev
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2022-04-02 22:14:52 +0200 <frostbyte_> Does `runhaskell` use ghci?
2022-04-02 22:15:00 +0200lavaman(~lavaman@c-174-63-118-52.hsd1.ma.comcast.net)
2022-04-02 22:15:08 +0200 <Rembane> It uses the interpreter rather than the compiler.
2022-04-02 22:15:09 +0200 <hpc> no, but they both use the same underlying bytecode stuff
2022-04-02 22:15:17 +0200 <frostbyte_> Right.
2022-04-02 22:15:53 +0200Lord_of_Life_(~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915)
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2022-04-02 22:26:25 +0200 <geekosaur> write(1, "Hello, world!\n", 14) = -1 ENOSPC (No space left on device)
2022-04-02 22:26:35 +0200 <frostbyte_> Why does the filter in the following code "stop the laziness"? That is, it will no longer read and write a line at-a-time.
2022-04-02 22:26:38 +0200 <frostbyte_> main = mapM_ putStrLn =<< filterM doesDirectoryExist =<< lines <$> getContents
2022-04-02 22:26:53 +0200 <frostbyte_> geekosaur: Yes, I saw that too.
2022-04-02 22:28:26 +0200 <frostbyte_> So, clearly, the return value / error is being ignored. I'm surprised that it is; doubly surprised that it's not the case when using `runhaskell`.
2022-04-02 22:29:09 +0200eggplantade(~Eggplanta@108-201-191-115.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
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2022-04-02 22:30:28 +0200 <geekosaur> actually I'm not
2022-04-02 22:30:36 +0200 <frostbyte_> Why so?
2022-04-02 22:30:48 +0200 <geekosaur> runhaskell will be in line at a time mode and the output is flushed at the newline, which causes the error to be caught
2022-04-02 22:31:51 +0200 <geekosaur> the compiled one will be in block mode because output is not a terminal. this means the Handle isn't flushed and closed until the RTS is doing cleanup post-execution; it therefore has nowhere to report the error to
2022-04-02 22:32:26 +0200 <geekosaur> thsi will as noted be a common probem. you need to switch buffering mode to enable the program to catch it
2022-04-02 22:32:37 +0200 <Rembane> So... what happens if the output mode is changed? Will both interpreted and compiled code behave the same?
2022-04-02 22:32:42 +0200zaquest(~notzaques@5.130.79.72)
2022-04-02 22:33:30 +0200acidjnk(~acidjnk@p200300d0c7049f70498c262e6d47c9a7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2022-04-02 22:34:37 +0200bahamas(~lucian@84.232.140.158)
2022-04-02 22:34:38 +0200 <frostbyte_> That's not really an answer because the error isn't even visible in the program's exit status.
2022-04-02 22:35:26 +0200 <geekosaur> it should. sadly stdbuf doesn't work on Haskell programs so you have to change the source
2022-04-02 22:35:29 +0200 <frostbyte_> Which I think suggests more that the error is completely ignored and unhandled rather than simply lacking somewhere to report it.
2022-04-02 22:36:39 +0200 <geekosaur> skkukuk Z$ ./hello > /dev/full
2022-04-02 22:36:39 +0200 <geekosaur> hello: <stdout>: commitBuffer: resource exhausted (No space left on device)
2022-04-02 22:36:39 +0200 <geekosaur> zsh: exit 1 ./hello > /dev/full
2022-04-02 22:37:02 +0200 <frostbyte_> What have you done differently there?
2022-04-02 22:37:13 +0200 <geekosaur> import System.IO
2022-04-02 22:37:13 +0200 <geekosaur> main = hSetBuffering stdout LineBuffering >> putStrLn "Hello, world!"
2022-04-02 22:37:45 +0200 <geekosaur> the problem is, hFlush throws an exception. but during RTS cleanup exception handling doesn't work
2022-04-02 22:37:57 +0200 <geekosaur> it's already been torn down
2022-04-02 22:38:35 +0200 <geekosaur> if I force the exception to be thrown during normal execution then it is thrown as usual and the RTS catches it because main doens't
2022-04-02 22:39:00 +0200Psybur(~Psybur@2600:1003:b103:720d:4903:f699:2ddf:4e24) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2022-04-02 22:39:24 +0200Psybur(~Psybur@2600:1003:b103:720d:4903:f699:2ddf:4e24)
2022-04-02 22:39:55 +0200 <geekosaur> I am not sure this is fixable: if exceptions were sent to an already closed Handle then that would just throw another exception inside the exception handler
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2022-04-02 22:40:18 +0200bahamas(~lucian@84.232.140.158) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2022-04-02 22:41:18 +0200 <frostbyte_> Perhaps, but surely the error could still surface without outputting error messages, such as the exit status.
2022-04-02 22:41:24 +0200 <geekosaur> which is the general problem with trying to do exception/error handling during RTS cleanup in any language
2022-04-02 22:42:51 +0200 <frostbyte_> Based on what you've said, are we able to manually flush and create the error without fiddling the linebuffering?
2022-04-02 22:43:06 +0200[itchyjunk](~itchyjunk@user/itchyjunk/x-7353470) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2022-04-02 22:43:26 +0200 <geekosaur> mm, you'd have to take that one up with the ghc folks since the RTS is their baby. https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/issues/new
2022-04-02 22:44:21 +0200 <geekosaur> skkukuk Z$ ./hello > /dev/full
2022-04-02 22:44:22 +0200 <geekosaur> hello: <stdout>: hFlush: resource exhausted (No space left on device)
2022-04-02 22:44:22 +0200 <geekosaur> zsh: exit 1 ./hello > /dev/full
2022-04-02 22:44:22 +0200 <geekosaur> skkukuk Z$ cat hello.hs
2022-04-02 22:44:22 +0200 <geekosaur> import System.IO
2022-04-02 22:44:22 +0200 <geekosaur> main = putStrLn "Hello, world!" >> hFlush stdout
2022-04-02 22:44:43 +0200 <frostbyte_> Right. Good.
2022-04-02 22:45:07 +0200[itchyjunk](~itchyjunk@user/itchyjunk/x-7353470)
2022-04-02 22:45:13 +0200odnes_(~odnes@5-203-146-18.pat.nym.cosmote.net) (Quit: Leaving)
2022-04-02 22:46:08 +0200Psybur(~Psybur@2600:1003:b103:720d:4903:f699:2ddf:4e24) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2022-04-02 22:46:32 +0200 <geekosaur> come tothink of it, exitFailed is also implemented as an exception, so this may be difficult to fix
2022-04-02 22:47:48 +0200 <frostbyte_> Of course I know nothing of the internals but I don't see why, really. Shouldn't flushing and checking it's success be part of cleaning up anyway?
2022-04-02 22:48:14 +0200Graham31415(~Graham@user/Graham31415) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2022-04-02 22:48:36 +0200 <frostbyte_> It's just quite sad for me because it undermines what was haskell's main appeal for me.
2022-04-02 22:48:48 +0200Psybur(~Psybur@2601:5c9:4201:3220:19c2:a1cd:6600:38ba)
2022-04-02 22:49:21 +0200 <geekosaur> I think if you ever let a filehandle be autoclosed, you're begging to lose any associated errors. be explicit if you care
2022-04-02 22:49:26 +0200 <geekosaur> in any language
2022-04-02 22:50:07 +0200Graham31415(~Graham@user/Graham31415)
2022-04-02 22:50:45 +0200BlackboardN(~nathan@user/BlackboardN)
2022-04-02 22:50:54 +0200 <frostbyte_> Although that's true enough, I don't think that should be the case for high level languages, particularly with stdout being something one rarely explicitly opens / closes.
2022-04-02 22:51:17 +0200 <geekosaur> this does raise the question of what happens if a Handle with a pending error condition is gc-ed, but it'd take a more involved program to check that
2022-04-02 22:51:41 +0200 <frostbyte_> Interesting.
2022-04-02 22:52:01 +0200 <geekosaur> because again I'm not sure it's safe to throw an exception in the middle of a gc
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