IRCBrowse

2022/03/19

2022-03-19 00:02:17 +0100raehik(~raehik@cpc95906-rdng25-2-0-cust156.15-3.cable.virginm.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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2022-03-19 00:11:29 +0100TonyStone(~TonyStone@2603-7080-8607-c36a-2420-4733-60a5-9d17.res6.spectrum.com)
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2022-03-19 00:44:29 +0100alMalsamo(~alMalsamo@gateway/tor-sasl/almalsamo)
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2022-03-19 00:59:06 +0100chenqisu1(~chenqisu1@183.217.201.47)
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2022-03-19 01:04:14 +0100Guest27(~Guest27@2601:281:d47f:1590::6b90)
2022-03-19 01:07:35 +0100 <Guest27> Does Parsec not export the SourcePos constructor? Trying to use tokenPrim and can't define the position update function because `Not in scope: data constructor 'SourcePos'`
2022-03-19 01:08:57 +0100alp(~alp@user/alp) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2022-03-19 01:10:07 +0100 <dminuoso> Guest27: use `updatePosChar`
2022-03-19 01:10:25 +0100 <Guest27> dminuoso I'm using custom tokens
2022-03-19 01:10:37 +0100 <dminuoso> Guest27: You can reconstruct it with newPos then
2022-03-19 01:11:11 +0100 <geekosaur> looks to me like it is in Text.Parsec and Text.Parsec.Pos. what version of parsec?
2022-03-19 01:11:12 +0100 <dminuoso> sourceName, sourceLine and sourceColumn are accessors into SourcePos essentially
2022-03-19 01:11:22 +0100 <dminuoso> geekosaur: the data constructor is not exported.
2022-03-19 01:11:27 +0100 <geekosaur> ah
2022-03-19 01:11:31 +0100 <Guest27> geekosaur 3.1.13.0
2022-03-19 01:11:52 +0100 <dminuoso> Guest27: so `newPos` is your constructor, and sourceName/sourceLine/sourceColumn let you deconstruct a SourcePos.
2022-03-19 01:11:53 +0100 <geekosaur> right"the abstract data type SourcePos"… sorry
2022-03-19 01:11:54 +0100 <dminuoso> Is this enough?
2022-03-19 01:12:15 +0100azimut(~azimut@gateway/tor-sasl/azimut) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2022-03-19 01:12:21 +0100 <Guest27> dminuoso Gotcha, thanks
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2022-03-19 05:38:05 +0100yuvi(~uv125@user/yuvi)
2022-03-19 05:38:11 +0100razetime(~quassel@117.254.35.162)
2022-03-19 05:39:40 +0100 <yuvi> hi all, im working on a function where given a regex i must return a generator for strings it accepts. my current attempt involves combining multiple generators of chars (Gen Char) into a Gen String to be returned; is this possible to do?
2022-03-19 05:40:01 +0100Everything(~Everythin@37.115.210.35) ()
2022-03-19 05:42:17 +0100jao(~jao@cpc103048-sgyl39-2-0-cust502.18-2.cable.virginm.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2022-03-19 05:43:16 +0100 <pavonia> Depends on what Gen is
2022-03-19 05:43:26 +0100 <pavonia> :t sequence
2022-03-19 05:43:27 +0100 <lambdabot> (Traversable t, Monad m) => t (m a) -> m (t a)
2022-03-19 05:45:52 +0100 <yuvi> unsure what you mean
2022-03-19 05:46:44 +0100wroathe(~wroathe@206-55-188-8.fttp.usinternet.com)
2022-03-19 05:46:44 +0100wroathe(~wroathe@206-55-188-8.fttp.usinternet.com) (Changing host)
2022-03-19 05:46:44 +0100wroathe(~wroathe@user/wroathe)
2022-03-19 05:49:06 +0100 <pavonia> You ask if it's possible to do, but the answer certainly depends on how Gen is exactly defined in that question
2022-03-19 05:50:22 +0100 <pavonia> Is it the QuickCheck Gen?
2022-03-19 05:51:22 +0100lavaman(~lavaman@c-174-63-118-52.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
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2022-03-19 05:52:55 +0100waleee(~waleee@2001:9b0:213:7200:cc36:a556:b1e8:b340) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
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2022-03-19 05:59:08 +0100 <yuvi> pavonia: yes
2022-03-19 05:59:23 +0100nexus(~nexus@87-97-12-230.pool.digikabel.hu) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
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2022-03-19 06:48:19 +0100 <yuvi> got it working! lol
2022-03-19 06:55:38 +0100zebrag(~chris@user/zebrag) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
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2022-03-19 11:50:35 +0100lumberjack123(~alMalsamo@gateway/tor-sasl/almalsamo) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2022-03-19 11:52:52 +0100mikoto-chan(~mikoto-ch@213.177.151.239)
2022-03-19 12:04:51 +0100unit73e(~emanuel@2001:818:e8dd:7c00:32b5:c2ff:fe6b:5291)
2022-03-19 12:06:06 +0100 <unit73e> hello. almost have XP3 extract done. I ended up first making a "Get [File name bytestring]" structure and that makes it much easier to handle IO. Someone suggested here to do that, so thanks to that person.
2022-03-19 12:06:56 +0100 <unit73e> you know, I have avoided record syntax lately. using a case works just as good for most cases.
2022-03-19 12:07:39 +0100 <unit73e> is record syntax avoided in general or not really, or not really?
2022-03-19 12:08:27 +0100 <unit73e> most of a the time I don't need "getters"
2022-03-19 12:10:05 +0100 <hpc> you can combine record syntax and generics to generate lenses for all the fields, and then it's super nice
2022-03-19 12:10:57 +0100 <hpc> also sometimes, even ignoring getters it's nice to just name all the fields
2022-03-19 12:11:08 +0100lavaman(~lavaman@c-174-63-118-52.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2022-03-19 12:11:19 +0100 <hpc> data FooConfig = FooConfig Bool Bool Bool String Bool Int Int Double Bool doesn't really tell you anything
2022-03-19 12:11:27 +0100 <unit73e> I did read about that some time ago. It ends up being kind of like OO languages. Yes naming fields is the nice part.
2022-03-19 12:12:53 +0100ProfSimm(~ProfSimm@87.227.196.109)
2022-03-19 12:13:15 +0100 <unit73e> you can use aliases for the Bool Bool Bool, but yeah I guess when the data is complex might as well use record syntax with generics
2022-03-19 12:13:24 +0100razetime(~quassel@117.254.35.215) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2022-03-19 12:13:54 +0100 <fendor[m]> Can I re-expose the module documentation for module I am re-exposing?
2022-03-19 12:14:55 +0100jpds(~jpds@gateway/tor-sasl/jpds) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2022-03-19 12:15:01 +0100jakalx(~jakalx@base.jakalx.net) (Error from remote client)
2022-03-19 12:15:42 +0100razetime(~quassel@117.254.35.215)
2022-03-19 12:16:54 +0100 <fendor[m]> Mostly, I want to re-expose a module, write a reasonable module header once that's automatically included wherever I am re-exporting my module
2022-03-19 12:16:59 +0100jpds(~jpds@gateway/tor-sasl/jpds)
2022-03-19 12:17:27 +0100 <unit73e> so you want to reuse the same documentation?
2022-03-19 12:17:34 +0100 <unit73e> in your new module?
2022-03-19 12:17:39 +0100 <unit73e> something like that?
2022-03-19 12:17:40 +0100machinedgod(~machinedg@24.105.81.50)
2022-03-19 12:19:12 +0100nexus(~nexus@193-226-233-20.pool.digikabel.hu) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2022-03-19 12:19:34 +0100 <unit73e> fendor[m], maybe this? https://haskell-haddock.readthedocs.io/en/latest/markup.html?highlight=reference#re-exporting-an-e…
2022-03-19 12:19:39 +0100 <unit73e> or the next section?
2022-03-19 12:19:46 +0100nexus(~nexus@80-95-82-203.pool.digikabel.hu)
2022-03-19 12:21:29 +0100 <unit73e> I didn't even know that was possible. nice feature
2022-03-19 12:21:47 +0100 <fendor[m]> yeah, I re-expose a module twice, but I want at both locations some introduction so users are less confused
2022-03-19 12:22:04 +0100jakalx(~jakalx@base.jakalx.net)
2022-03-19 12:23:08 +0100jpds(~jpds@gateway/tor-sasl/jpds) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-03-19 12:23:50 +0100jpds(~jpds@gateway/tor-sasl/jpds)
2022-03-19 12:24:26 +0100boborygmy_(~bob@pool-173-54-217-168.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net)
2022-03-19 12:24:40 +0100lavaman(~lavaman@c-174-63-118-52.hsd1.ma.comcast.net)
2022-03-19 12:26:06 +0100 <fendor[m]> ah, wtf... If I add a section $doc, and define it a little later, it works, but if I write it directly in the export section, the documentation is swallowed
2022-03-19 12:26:47 +0100 <fendor[m]> eh... good enough
2022-03-19 12:26:48 +0100 <fendor[m]> thanks!
2022-03-19 12:30:52 +0100 <Franciman> hi fendor[m]
2022-03-19 12:31:48 +0100__monty__(~toonn@user/toonn)
2022-03-19 12:33:15 +0100 <fendor[m]> hi Franciman!
2022-03-19 12:43:49 +0100`2jt(~jtomas@210.red-88-24-179.staticip.rima-tde.net)
2022-03-19 12:43:57 +0100Codaraxis_(~Codaraxis@user/codaraxis)
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2022-03-19 12:57:30 +0100barrucadu(~barrucadu@carcosa.barrucadu.co.uk) (Quit: Rebooting for upgrades...)
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2022-03-19 13:34:34 +0100wroathe(~wroathe@206-55-188-8.fttp.usinternet.com) (Changing host)
2022-03-19 13:34:34 +0100wroathe(~wroathe@user/wroathe)
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2022-03-19 13:40:28 +0100DNH(~DNH@2a02:8108:1100:16d8:dc77:d173:a9b9:d810) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2022-03-19 13:41:08 +0100merijn(~merijn@c-001-001-001.client.esciencecenter.eduvpn.nl)
2022-03-19 13:43:32 +0100whatsupdoc(uid509081@id-509081.hampstead.irccloud.com) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2022-03-19 13:54:58 +0100coot(~coot@213.134.190.95)
2022-03-19 13:55:52 +0100acidsys(~LSD@2a03:4000:55:d20::3) (Excess Flood)
2022-03-19 13:56:23 +0100acidsys(~LSD@2a03:4000:55:d20::3)
2022-03-19 13:56:29 +0100acidsys(~LSD@2a03:4000:55:d20::3) (Excess Flood)
2022-03-19 13:57:06 +0100acidsys(~LSD@2a03:4000:55:d20::3)
2022-03-19 13:57:41 +0100yauhsien_(~yauhsien@61-231-56-96.dynamic-ip.hinet.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-03-19 13:58:25 +0100DNH(~DNH@2a02:8108:1100:16d8:dc77:d173:a9b9:d810)
2022-03-19 14:02:04 +0100zincy_(~zincy@2a00:23c8:970c:4801:6945:2980:3f53:dff8)
2022-03-19 14:02:41 +0100lavaman(~lavaman@c-174-63-118-52.hsd1.ma.comcast.net)
2022-03-19 14:03:05 +0100 <romesrf> Has anyone come across an error when adding reflex to a cabal project regarding "patch"?
2022-03-19 14:03:42 +0100 <romesrf> might be OS specific: https://paste.tomsmeding.com/8wKOZy5e
2022-03-19 14:07:26 +0100yauhsien_(~yauhsien@61-231-56-96.dynamic-ip.hinet.net)
2022-03-19 14:08:18 +0100mon_aaraj(~MonAaraj@user/mon-aaraj/x-4416475) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2022-03-19 14:08:19 +0100jakalx(~jakalx@base.jakalx.net) (Error from remote client)
2022-03-19 14:08:24 +0100romesrf(~romes@44.190.189.46.rev.vodafone.pt) (Quit: WeeChat 3.4)
2022-03-19 14:08:49 +0100romesrf(~romes@44.190.189.46.rev.vodafone.pt)
2022-03-19 14:10:21 +0100Vajb(~Vajb@2001:999:62:aa00:7f5a:4f10:c894:3813) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2022-03-19 14:10:54 +0100Vajb(~Vajb@hag-jnsbng11-58c3a8-176.dhcp.inet.fi)
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2022-03-19 14:12:09 +0100mikoto-chan(~mikoto-ch@213.177.151.239) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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2022-03-19 14:14:25 +0100coot(~coot@213.134.190.95) (Quit: coot)
2022-03-19 14:14:40 +0100jakalx(~jakalx@base.jakalx.net)
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2022-03-19 14:28:53 +0100 <unit73e> romesrf, no. try cleaning cabal directory. that seems to me more like some kind of ID failure.
2022-03-19 14:29:15 +0100 <unit73e> I never bothered figuring why such things happen though
2022-03-19 14:29:43 +0100 <unit73e> I'm saying that because it's a GHC lib, apparently
2022-03-19 14:29:59 +0100 <unit73e> that was generated by cabal
2022-03-19 14:30:06 +0100 <unit73e> but I could be wrong
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2022-03-19 14:39:48 +0100 <juri_> hmm. i'm being dumb, somehow. if i write a function thing = otherthing, then all of the passed arguments to thing are passed to otherthing, without me having to name them. how do i do thing = doSomethingWithOutPutOf $ otherThing?
2022-03-19 14:39:57 +0100lavaman(~lavaman@c-174-63-118-52.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2022-03-19 14:40:10 +0100 <juri_> (.) in place of the $ doesn't work...
2022-03-19 14:40:34 +0100 <Rembane> juri_: You need to add the arguments when you use $
2022-03-19 14:40:57 +0100 <juri_> ugh.
2022-03-19 14:41:46 +0100 <corisco[m]> you need to use composition, otherwise you are partially applying doSomethingWithOutPutOf with otherThing.... or you must use (.), but then "thing" must have only one paramenter
2022-03-19 14:43:06 +0100waleee(~waleee@2001:9b0:213:7200:cc36:a556:b1e8:b340)
2022-03-19 14:43:54 +0100 <Rembane> juri_: There's the useful owl though ((.) . (.))
2022-03-19 14:43:59 +0100 <Rembane> :t ((.) . (.))
2022-03-19 14:44:00 +0100 <lambdabot> (b -> c) -> (a1 -> a2 -> b) -> a1 -> a2 -> c
2022-03-19 14:44:17 +0100 <Rembane> :t on -- And this function is also quite handy
2022-03-19 14:44:18 +0100 <lambdabot> (b -> b -> c) -> (a -> b) -> a -> a -> c
2022-03-19 14:48:02 +0100[itchyjunk](~itchyjunk@user/itchyjunk/x-7353470)
2022-03-19 14:49:36 +0100MajorBiscuit(~MajorBisc@c-001-031-019.client.tudelft.eduvpn.nl)
2022-03-19 14:49:39 +0100romesrf(~romes@44.190.189.46.rev.vodafone.pt)
2022-03-19 14:50:38 +0100 <juri_> yeah, i think the owl for what i'm doing might be a bit painful to write.. i've got 8 arguments i'm trying not to name. :)
2022-03-19 14:51:09 +0100 <[exa]> juri_: suggestion: make the `otherThing` accept the `doSomethingWithOutput` as extra (first) parameter
2022-03-19 14:51:22 +0100 <[exa]> (aka a "continuation" or so)
2022-03-19 14:51:34 +0100 <juri_> hmm. that might work.
2022-03-19 14:51:34 +0100 <Rembane> juri_: You could also put the eight parameters in a record
2022-03-19 14:51:47 +0100komikat(~komikat@183.82.152.122)
2022-03-19 14:52:10 +0100 <corisco[m]> yeah using records in this case, would be an elegant solution
2022-03-19 14:52:32 +0100unit73e(~emanuel@2001:818:e8dd:7c00:32b5:c2ff:fe6b:5291) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2022-03-19 14:53:57 +0100vglfr(~vglfr@88.155.114.173) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2022-03-19 14:54:44 +0100 <corisco[m]> * using records, in
2022-03-19 14:56:34 +0100justsomeguy(~justsomeg@user/justsomeguy)
2022-03-19 14:57:14 +0100 <[exa]> juri_: technically the multi-parameter combinations are complicated because there's ambiguity in how many arguments should be taken by the function and how many should be "left over" for the resulting combined value (function), changing the interface to allow continuation usually clarifies that (at least you can only have the arguments listed at one place)
2022-03-19 14:57:17 +0100boborygmy_(~bob@pool-173-54-217-168.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2022-03-19 14:57:46 +0100 <hpc> polymorphism makes it extra fun too
2022-03-19 14:57:51 +0100 <hpc> how many parameters does id take?
2022-03-19 14:57:52 +0100 <hpc> :t id
2022-03-19 14:57:53 +0100 <lambdabot> a -> a
2022-03-19 14:58:00 +0100 <[exa]> btw this might map nicely to some kind of a monad, I'd expect Cont
2022-03-19 14:58:11 +0100komikat(~komikat@183.82.152.122) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2022-03-19 14:59:36 +0100 <juri_> [exa]: yeah, that makes sense, it's just not what i'd look for here. I'm trying to propertyTest = doTestOnOutputOf $ generatorOfObject , so adding a continuation to the generator would make it less useful. I call that generator from GHCI, when i'm trying to see what function failed when applied to the generator's output.
2022-03-19 15:01:05 +0100 <juri_> naming the variables is the least-ugly solution i can come up with.
2022-03-19 15:01:24 +0100 <juri_> (a b c d e f) it is.
2022-03-19 15:01:37 +0100razetime(~quassel@117.254.35.215) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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2022-03-19 15:03:14 +0100`2jt(~jtomas@210.red-88-24-179.staticip.rima-tde.net)
2022-03-19 15:04:45 +0100 <geekosaur> yes, it'softennot worth it to try to be point free
2022-03-19 15:05:02 +0100 <geekosaur> (the lambdabot plugin is called "pointless" for a reason :)
2022-03-19 15:06:00 +0100komikat(~komikat@183.82.152.122)
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2022-03-19 16:13:47 +0100 <albet70> a = [[1,2], [3,5]] what's the best way to get [[1,3], [2,5]]?
2022-03-19 16:14:26 +0100 <geekosaur> > transpose [[1,2],[3,5]]
2022-03-19 16:14:27 +0100 <lambdabot> [[1,3],[2,5]]
2022-03-19 16:16:39 +0100merijn(~merijn@c-001-001-001.client.esciencecenter.eduvpn.nl)
2022-03-19 16:17:23 +0100 <albet70> with fmap can do it?
2022-03-19 16:17:43 +0100bahamas(~lucian@84.232.140.158)
2022-03-19 16:18:29 +0100 <albet70> [[1,2,3], [4,5,6], [7,8,9]] to [[1,4,7], [2,5,8], [3,6,9]]
2022-03-19 16:18:56 +0100 <geekosaur> fmap seems like a rather complex way to do it, although it's probably possible
2022-03-19 16:19:02 +0100 <geekosaur> transpose does it easily
2022-03-19 16:19:18 +0100 <geekosaur> > transpose [[1,2,3], [4,5,6], [7,8,9]]
2022-03-19 16:19:20 +0100 <lambdabot> [[1,4,7],[2,5,8],[3,6,9]]
2022-03-19 16:19:33 +0100 <geekosaur> @src transpose
2022-03-19 16:19:33 +0100 <lambdabot> transpose [] = []
2022-03-19 16:19:33 +0100 <lambdabot> transpose ([] : xss) = transpose xss
2022-03-19 16:19:33 +0100 <lambdabot> transpose ((x:xs) : xss) = (x : [h | (h:t) <- xss]) : transpose (xs : [ t | (h:t) <- xss])
2022-03-19 16:20:41 +0100 <albet70> you're right, transpose is the way
2022-03-19 16:20:43 +0100 <c_wraith> you could go via ZipList instead, which is... less specialized than transpose. But it also has different behavior when the input isn't rectangular
2022-03-19 16:21:24 +0100razetime(~quassel@117.254.35.215) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2022-03-19 16:22:02 +0100bahamas(~lucian@84.232.140.158) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2022-03-19 16:22:03 +0100rembo10(~rembo10@main.remulis.com) (Quit: ZNC 1.8.2 - https://znc.in)
2022-03-19 16:22:24 +0100 <c_wraith> > (getZipList . sequenceA . fmap ZipList) [[1,2,3],[4,5,6],[7,8,9]]
2022-03-19 16:22:26 +0100 <lambdabot> [[1,4,7],[2,5,8],[3,6,9]]
2022-03-19 16:22:33 +0100 <c_wraith> also a lot less obvious what it's doing
2022-03-19 16:22:36 +0100 <albet70> foldl with zipWith?
2022-03-19 16:23:04 +0100 <c_wraith> :t getZipList . sequenceA . fmap ZipList
2022-03-19 16:23:05 +0100 <lambdabot> Traversable t => t [a] -> [t a]
2022-03-19 16:23:40 +0100 <c_wraith> But that is different from transpose in a significant way other than the type
2022-03-19 16:23:51 +0100 <c_wraith> transpose preserves all the elements if the input is ragged
2022-03-19 16:24:08 +0100 <c_wraith> that will truncate everything to the length of the shortest sublist
2022-03-19 16:25:22 +0100 <c_wraith> > transpose [[1],[2,3],[4,5,6]]
2022-03-19 16:25:23 +0100 <lambdabot> [[1,2,4],[3,5],[6]]
2022-03-19 16:25:48 +0100 <c_wraith> > (getZipList . sequenceA . fmap ZipList) [[1],[2,3],[4,5,6]]
2022-03-19 16:25:50 +0100 <lambdabot> [[1,2,4]]
2022-03-19 16:27:21 +0100redj75(~redj@120.206.226.109.ip.orionnet.ru)
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2022-03-19 17:11:00 +0100FragByte_FragByte
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2022-03-19 17:17:47 +0100 <albet70> if a = [[1,2,3], [4,5,6], [7,8,9], [10,11,12]], let n and n+2 to concat, get [[1,2,3,7,8,9], [4,5,6,10,11,12]
2022-03-19 17:19:15 +0100DNH(~DNH@2a02:8108:1100:16d8:dc77:d173:a9b9:d810)
2022-03-19 17:23:08 +0100 <monochrom> I would make the stepping stone of separating [[1,2,3], [4,5,6], [7,8,9], [10,11,12]] into ([[1,2,3], [7,8,9]], [[4,5,6], [10,11,12]]). Then it's a simple zipWith.
2022-03-19 17:23:41 +0100Jeanne-Kamikaze(~Jeanne-Ka@static-198-54-134-169.cust.tzulo.com)
2022-03-19 17:23:52 +0100komikat(~komikat@183.82.152.122) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-03-19 17:24:12 +0100 <monochrom> Err wait that's wrong.
2022-03-19 17:24:35 +0100 <albet70> ...
2022-03-19 17:24:56 +0100ProfSimm(~ProfSimm@87.227.196.109) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-03-19 17:25:26 +0100Inst(~Liam@c-98-208-218-119.hsd1.fl.comcast.net)
2022-03-19 17:26:25 +0100jstolarek(~jstolarek@staticline-31-183-185-185.toya.net.pl)
2022-03-19 17:27:30 +0100wootehfoot(~wootehfoo@user/wootehfoot)
2022-03-19 17:27:32 +0100 <albet70> there's a ugly way to do it, use the index
2022-03-19 17:27:47 +0100coot(~coot@213.134.190.95)
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2022-03-19 17:28:26 +0100`2jt(~jtomas@210.red-88-24-179.staticip.rima-tde.net)
2022-03-19 17:28:44 +0100 <albet70> so make index 0 and 2 to concat, 1 and 3 to concat, but it's ugly...
2022-03-19 17:29:21 +0100 <pavonia> Why not defining your own function? It's a trival loop
2022-03-19 17:30:03 +0100 <monochrom> Should I make 2 and 4 concat too? Should I actually concat 0, 2, 4 together?
2022-03-19 17:30:09 +0100 <albet70> I just wonder if Data.List can do it
2022-03-19 17:30:18 +0100 <albet70> "monochrom :Should I make 2 and 4 concat too? Should I actually concat 0, 2, 4 together?", yes
2022-03-19 17:30:46 +0100 <albet70> if there's 6, 8. it concat 0,2,4,6,8
2022-03-19 17:31:01 +0100 <monochrom> Oh beautiful, then my stepping stone still helps.
2022-03-19 17:32:34 +0100zebrag(~chris@user/zebrag)
2022-03-19 17:32:56 +0100Unicorn_Princess(~Unicorn_P@46-54-248-191.static.kate-wing.si)
2022-03-19 17:32:59 +0100lbseale(~ep1ctetus@user/ep1ctetus)
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2022-03-19 17:39:08 +0100Jeanne-Kamikaze(~Jeanne-Ka@static-198-54-134-121.cust.tzulo.com)
2022-03-19 17:39:57 +0100thaumavorio(~thaumavor@thaumavor.io) (Quit: ZNC 1.8.2 - https://znc.in)
2022-03-19 17:41:33 +0100mvk(~mvk@2607:fea8:5cc3:7e00::45ee)
2022-03-19 17:41:39 +0100 <albet70> split then reduce
2022-03-19 17:41:46 +0100thaumavorio(~thaumavor@thaumavor.io)
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2022-03-19 18:01:04 +0100Vajb(~Vajb@2001:999:62:aa00:7f5a:4f10:c894:3813)
2022-03-19 18:01:48 +0100 <faAsade> Hi all. I'm using Hspec. My example 'head "" `shouldThrow` anyErrorCall' is a type mismatch and won't compile, so how can I expect the 'empty list' exception?
2022-03-19 18:03:32 +0100dyeplexer(~dyeplexer@user/dyeplexer)
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2022-03-19 18:05:48 +0100 <faAsade> nevermind -- the `evaluate` function seems to work
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2022-03-19 18:47:36 +0100 <Zemyla> Can someone explain to me why `taking` from the lens library requires a fake Contravariant instance?
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2022-03-19 19:50:30 +0100segfaultfizzbuzz(~segfaultf@2602:306:cd3c:9350:698a:c772:fe08:7b1d)
2022-03-19 19:51:46 +0100 <segfaultfizzbuzz> this is ostensibly more of a mathematics question so please do feel free to ask me to go somewhere else, but i have a feeling that #haskell might be the best place to ask this question:
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2022-03-19 19:52:17 +0100 <segfaultfizzbuzz> let's say that i have a "statement" such as "the product of two natural numbers is divisible by 2"
2022-03-19 19:52:39 +0100mvk(~mvk@2607:fea8:5cc3:7e00::45ee) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2022-03-19 19:52:53 +0100 <segfaultfizzbuzz> there are different ways of writing this same statement and these different methods may require varying numbers of bits to write down
2022-03-19 19:53:01 +0100yauhsien(~yauhsien@61-231-56-96.dynamic-ip.hinet.net)
2022-03-19 19:53:49 +0100 <segfaultfizzbuzz> however it seems like there should be a way of establishing in a universal sense that the number of bits required to make this statement is objectively less than some value--for example one billion bits is far more than necessary regardless of however this expression is represented
2022-03-19 19:57:29 +0100yauhsien(~yauhsien@61-231-56-96.dynamic-ip.hinet.net) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2022-03-19 19:57:30 +0100 <segfaultfizzbuzz> so is there a way of doing this? can i write a function in haskell and have some kind of estimate for the number of bits required to express equivalent statements?
2022-03-19 19:57:55 +0100 <johnw_> segfaultfizzbuzz: I'm not sure what mathematical statements like this have to do with "bits" at all
2022-03-19 19:58:03 +0100raehik(~raehik@cpc95906-rdng25-2-0-cust156.15-3.cable.virginm.net) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2022-03-19 19:58:10 +0100 <johnw_> I would prove the theorem in a setting like Coq or Agda, where such a question wouldn't even make sense
2022-03-19 19:58:23 +0100 <segfaultfizzbuzz> well if you speak out loud or write a mathematical statement, you need to represent it somehow, even if it is a drawing or an audio recording
2022-03-19 19:58:35 +0100 <johnw_> Do you want to learn a mathematical truth, or are you looking to say something about how a particular machine architecture represents numerical statements?
2022-03-19 19:58:59 +0100 <segfaultfizzbuzz> well i have become interested in the concept of probabilistic proofs
2022-03-19 19:59:01 +0100 <johnw_> Proofs by induction like the one you presented are fairly economical, in terms of proof-term size
2022-03-19 19:59:17 +0100nishant(~Nishant@49.37.242.151) (Quit: Leaving)
2022-03-19 19:59:21 +0100 <segfaultfizzbuzz> for example richard feynman had a very good one page probabilistic proof of fermat's last theorem
2022-03-19 20:00:02 +0100 <segfaultfizzbuzz> and so this made me wonder, if you have a mathematical statement in the wild and you check it empirically some number of times, what is the probability that the statement is true?
2022-03-19 20:00:29 +0100 <monochrom> This is both complexity theory and information theory combined. This will be a huge project. And that's already probably an understatement.
2022-03-19 20:00:54 +0100 <segfaultfizzbuzz> and that made me think that shorter statements can be checked more successfully by random (or not-so-random) empirical testing
2022-03-19 20:01:12 +0100 <johnw_> ah, "checked" here is subjective
2022-03-19 20:01:15 +0100 <monochrom> However the bottom line is you need to know the basics of both before you can sharpen your question sufficiently to even begin.
2022-03-19 20:01:39 +0100 <johnw_> proof by sampling is something that many proof environments do support, but it's just a serious of existentially-quantified witnesses, not a universally-quantified proof
2022-03-19 20:01:46 +0100 <segfaultfizzbuzz> no, you can make a statement like i said, like " the product of two numbers is divisible by 2" and then test it by checking it on a bunch of statements
2022-03-19 20:01:48 +0100 <johnw_> it's a useful technique to know right away whether your statement is false, though
2022-03-19 20:02:04 +0100 <segfaultfizzbuzz> and so then the question is, calculate the probability that your statement is true or false based on your empirical tests
2022-03-19 20:02:13 +0100jstolarek(~jstolarek@staticline-31-183-185-185.toya.net.pl)
2022-03-19 20:02:21 +0100 <segfaultfizzbuzz> and my thinking here is that if the statement is shorter, then empirical tests are more meaningful
2022-03-19 20:02:42 +0100 <johnw_> an engineer might buy such a statement, but a mathematician wouldn't
2022-03-19 20:02:51 +0100johnw_johnw
2022-03-19 20:03:05 +0100 <segfaultfizzbuzz> but this doesn't matter, because the engineer might start to be able to publish conjectures way before the mathematician can even think of them
2022-03-19 20:03:06 +0100 <monochrom> For example one thing both teaches is that you cannot look at an individual sentence in isolation. You have to first draw a line around all possible sentences you allow. Only then it makes sense to ask "what's a reasonable length of my favourite sentence?"
2022-03-19 20:03:38 +0100 <johnw> As a "conjecture finder" it could be interesting
2022-03-19 20:04:05 +0100 <segfaultfizzbuzz> and furthermore in the real world, if you are using some mathematics, the fact that it is false mathematics doesn't necessarily mean it is useless
2022-03-19 20:04:59 +0100 <segfaultfizzbuzz> anyway so my thinking here was that there was a pidgeonhole principle at work
2022-03-19 20:05:28 +0100 <segfaultfizzbuzz> if you express "the product of two numbers is divisible by two" in bits, and you check it 10^9 times non-redundantly,
2022-03-19 20:05:52 +0100 <segfaultfizzbuzz> then the statement length is less than the associated billion bits, therefore you know conclusively whether it is true or false
2022-03-19 20:06:04 +0100 <segfaultfizzbuzz> you don't even need a proof
2022-03-19 20:06:09 +0100 <segfaultfizzbuzz> in the traditional sense
2022-03-19 20:06:47 +0100 <johnw> The fact that you can express the statement in bits, though, doesn't take into account that there is a recursion involved.
2022-03-19 20:07:14 +0100 <segfaultfizzbuzz> recursion doesn't matter? i can write a recursive haskell program in less than 8000 bites
2022-03-19 20:07:17 +0100 <segfaultfizzbuzz> 8000 bits
2022-03-19 20:07:29 +0100 <johnw> but how do you check that it is true for all inputs?
2022-03-19 20:08:14 +0100 <segfaultfizzbuzz> if the statement can be expressed with very few bits, how can it have lots of entropy?
2022-03-19 20:08:51 +0100 <segfaultfizzbuzz> it's as simple as that,... at some point you exceed the maximum entropy which can be generated from a statement of that length
2022-03-19 20:09:39 +0100boxscape_(~boxscape_@p4ff0b60b.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2022-03-19 20:10:14 +0100alp(~alp@user/alp)
2022-03-19 20:10:26 +0100little_mac(~little_ma@2601:410:4300:3ce0::8b2c)
2022-03-19 20:12:01 +0100 <johnw> So you are saying that a theorem has a certain information density, and that a proof can be found by attempting to analyze this factor?
2022-03-19 20:12:23 +0100 <segfaultfizzbuzz> yes that is what i am thinking about
2022-03-19 20:12:30 +0100geekosaurwonders what kurt gödel would have to say about that
2022-03-19 20:12:47 +0100 <johnw> I'm definitely not qualified to say that you're wrong, but I'd love to read your upcoming thesis. :)
2022-03-19 20:13:49 +0100 <segfaultfizzbuzz> and so you might need to generate a lot of tests, but at some point you exceed the entropy which can be represented in statements of the length you are looking at.
2022-03-19 20:14:23 +0100 <segfaultfizzbuzz> and furthermore computers are so fast today that you may be able to generate enough tests so as to actually exceed that representational entropy
2022-03-19 20:14:55 +0100 <segfaultfizzbuzz> and if i can speculate here, this phenomenon might explain why software works in the first place
2022-03-19 20:15:17 +0100 <johnw> you make me wonder about some proof terms in my category theory library where, although the statement of the theorem is quite trivial, the proof term is hundreds of megabytes in size and takes 30 minutes to calculate....
2022-03-19 20:15:52 +0100 <segfaultfizzbuzz> wonder in what way?
2022-03-19 20:16:05 +0100zincy_(~zincy@host86-160-236-152.range86-160.btcentralplus.com)
2022-03-19 20:16:15 +0100 <johnw> if your speculation is true, then the vast majority of that complexity should be sheer redundancy, like a single light refracting trillions of times
2022-03-19 20:16:29 +0100 <segfaultfizzbuzz> oh you are saying that the proof is an entropic exhaustion of the expression?
2022-03-19 20:16:35 +0100 <segfaultfizzbuzz> i don't agree that it is redundancy
2022-03-19 20:16:59 +0100 <johnw> doesn't the theorem statement itself contain "all" of the information?
2022-03-19 20:17:06 +0100 <johnw> so that if it is brief, then there are only a few bits of true entropy
2022-03-19 20:17:15 +0100bitdex(~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2022-03-19 20:17:25 +0100 <segfaultfizzbuzz> yes the entropy of the *statement* is low, but
2022-03-19 20:17:26 +0100 <johnw> and the rest of the proof term beyond this size is not entropic, and thus not truly informative, but merely an exposition of that kernel?
2022-03-19 20:17:45 +0100 <segfaultfizzbuzz> i am saying that the *proof* of the statement has a maximum necessary size/number of bits
2022-03-19 20:17:48 +0100 <monochrom> No no no. The axioms of your theory contains "all" of the information. >:)
2022-03-19 20:17:59 +0100 <johnw> yes, monochrom++
2022-03-19 20:18:05 +0100 <monochrom> or even, "information" >:) >:)
2022-03-19 20:18:13 +0100 <johnw> the axioms are the only information, everything else is restatement
2022-03-19 20:18:44 +0100 <johnw> but I think segfaultfizzbuzz means information in a slightly different sense here
2022-03-19 20:18:51 +0100 <monochrom> But now this has enlarged to encompass all of complexity theory, information theory, number theory, and logic.
2022-03-19 20:19:10 +0100 <johnw> as in, not a thing newly learned, but the informational complexity of the statement itself?
2022-03-19 20:19:19 +0100 <segfaultfizzbuzz> all reasoning is practiced by and relevant to mortals and therefore will always contain a finite number of bits
2022-03-19 20:19:21 +0100 <johnw> as any good discussion on #haskell should
2022-03-19 20:19:22 +0100jao(~jao@cpc103048-sgyl39-2-0-cust502.18-2.cable.virginm.net)
2022-03-19 20:19:43 +0100 <monochrom> Like I said even "huge research project" is likely a gross understatement. More like a "research program" meaning on the scale of hundreds of people and a century.
2022-03-19 20:19:53 +0100bitdex(~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex)
2022-03-19 20:20:02 +0100 <segfaultfizzbuzz> that's a good thing, right?
2022-03-19 20:20:24 +0100 <monochrom> Well, either that, or Gödel comes along and collapses it with a simple "undecidable".
2022-03-19 20:20:31 +0100 <monochrom> (like geekosaur said)
2022-03-19 20:20:32 +0100 <segfaultfizzbuzz> godel is boring
2022-03-19 20:20:55 +0100ec(~ec@gateway/tor-sasl/ec) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2022-03-19 20:21:08 +0100 <segfaultfizzbuzz> mathematics is systematically biased towards boring exceptions to useful rules
2022-03-19 20:21:20 +0100ec(~ec@gateway/tor-sasl/ec)
2022-03-19 20:21:28 +0100 <segfaultfizzbuzz> except once in a while the boring exception actually is meaningful
2022-03-19 20:21:49 +0100 <geekosaur> meaningful how and/or to whom?
2022-03-19 20:23:28 +0100 <segfaultfizzbuzz> to me personally in my own experience
2022-03-19 20:23:51 +0100 <segfaultfizzbuzz> anyway whatever you think about this, i do believe there is an interesting and useful way of approaching the pidgeonhole principle in the context of proving things
2022-03-19 20:25:30 +0100 <monochrom> Well let me turn "boring" around to what your observed about how the software crisis is not really so doomsday.
2022-03-19 20:25:55 +0100jpds(~jpds@gateway/tor-sasl/jpds) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2022-03-19 20:26:00 +0100 <monochrom> It is daily software that's boring. This include both expected behaviour and actual bugs.
2022-03-19 20:27:23 +0100 <monochrom> It is why there is so little information that 1000 tests are enough to detect most bugs that matter.
2022-03-19 20:27:50 +0100 <monochrom> But sorry Goldbach's conjecture is much less boring than that.
2022-03-19 20:28:22 +0100 <segfaultfizzbuzz> right, the tests are probably exhaustive in an entropic sense, for everything that the software can express, especially if the tests are random
2022-03-19 20:28:37 +0100jpds(~jpds@gateway/tor-sasl/jpds)
2022-03-19 20:28:46 +0100 <monochrom> And to date we don't even know whether Gödel's curse applies to Goldbach's conjecture. That how not boring Gödel's curse is.
2022-03-19 20:31:12 +0100 <segfaultfizzbuzz> this also suggests that if you can non-sequentally test something (for example, if i wanted to test goldbach's conjecture at precisely the number 10^200, rather than the current maximum sequential test up to 10^18) then that would be quite valuable
2022-03-19 20:31:59 +0100 <segfaultfizzbuzz> actually scratch that i don't want to weigh down my main point
2022-03-19 20:32:03 +0100romesrf(~romes@44.190.189.46.rev.vodafone.pt) (Quit: WeeChat 3.4)
2022-03-19 20:35:07 +0100 <Zemyla> Goldbach's conjecture is either true or false in True Arithmetic. If it's undecidable in Peano Arithmetic, then that's a problem with PA.
2022-03-19 20:38:12 +0100segfaultfizzbuzz(~segfaultf@2602:306:cd3c:9350:698a:c772:fe08:7b1d) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2022-03-19 20:43:28 +0100ProfSimm(~ProfSimm@87.227.196.109)
2022-03-19 20:45:26 +0100coot(~coot@213.134.190.95) (Quit: coot)
2022-03-19 20:45:58 +0100segfaultfizzbuzz(~segfaultf@2602:306:cd3c:9350:698a:c772:fe08:7b1d)
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2022-03-19 20:55:15 +0100segfaultfizzbuzz(~segfaultf@2602:306:cd3c:9350:698a:c772:fe08:7b1d)
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2022-03-19 21:01:31 +0100 <dolio> What's true arithmetic?
2022-03-19 21:05:06 +0100Lord_of_Life_(~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915)
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2022-03-19 21:08:18 +0100hexagoxel(~hexagoxel@hexagoxel.de) (Quit: ZNC 1.6.5+deb1+deb9u2 - http://znc.in)
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2022-03-19 21:12:52 +0100merijn(~merijn@c-001-001-001.client.esciencecenter.eduvpn.nl)
2022-03-19 21:16:49 +0100michalz(~michalz@185.246.204.37)
2022-03-19 21:17:09 +0100segfaultfizzbuzz(~segfaultf@2602:306:cd3c:9350:698a:c772:fe08:7b1d)
2022-03-19 21:17:52 +0100 <segfaultfizzbuzz> another relevant question here is can i "generate all statements of length N" or "all statements of M bits or fewer"?
2022-03-19 21:18:06 +0100 <segfaultfizzbuzz> which is a very haskell-y question i think ;-)
2022-03-19 21:18:33 +0100 <Rembane> Sure, do you have until the heat death of the universe?
2022-03-19 21:19:43 +0100 <segfaultfizzbuzz> N might be not a large number
2022-03-19 21:20:03 +0100alp(~alp@user/alp) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2022-03-19 21:20:23 +0100 <dolio> (That's a trick question, by the way. :þ)
2022-03-19 21:20:38 +0100mvk(~mvk@2607:fea8:5cc3:7e00::45ee)
2022-03-19 21:21:33 +0100 <segfaultfizzbuzz> sorry, dont understand that one. i understand the universe heat death timescale is an important constraint here so there will be natural limits on N
2022-03-19 21:23:19 +0100weekOldRoadkill(~weekOldRo@pool-108-50-225-254.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net)
2022-03-19 21:24:06 +0100 <dolio> A logical sentence is a syntax tree, so use the size of said tree represented some way in Haskell.
2022-03-19 21:30:50 +0100mikoto-chan(~mikoto-ch@213.177.151.239) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2022-03-19 21:35:53 +0100mikoto-chan(~mikoto-ch@213.177.151.239)
2022-03-19 21:36:45 +0100gensyst(gensyst@user/gensyst)
2022-03-19 21:36:56 +0100notzmv(~zmv@user/notzmv)
2022-03-19 21:37:02 +0100 <gensyst> Are there cases where parallelism is doomed to fail no matter what?
2022-03-19 21:37:22 +0100 <segfaultfizzbuzz> what does doomed to fail mean
2022-03-19 21:37:23 +0100 <gensyst> I think I came across one case: where each "operation" is cheap but call many times enough to be a major bottleneck.
2022-03-19 21:37:46 +0100jgeerds(~jgeerds@55d4548e.access.ecotel.net)
2022-03-19 21:37:48 +0100 <segfaultfizzbuzz> some computations have an intrinsic amount of serialization
2022-03-19 21:37:50 +0100 <gensyst> I mean, I've tried parallelizing directly. I've also tried first chunking up and parallelizing chunks.
2022-03-19 21:37:56 +0100 <gensyst> No avail.
2022-03-19 21:38:23 +0100 <segfaultfizzbuzz> some things are hard to parallelize. what are you trying to compute?
2022-03-19 21:39:13 +0100 <gensyst> In my case these are just ByteStrings from a database
2022-03-19 21:39:16 +0100 <segfaultfizzbuzz> not uncommonly fast serial computations will beat slow parallel computations in both time and effort
2022-03-19 21:39:43 +0100 <segfaultfizzbuzz> "bytestring from a database" isn't a computation
2022-03-19 21:39:46 +0100 <gensyst> yeah, but why? the profiling shows that the deserialization is taking 70% of the time
2022-03-19 21:39:53 +0100 <gensyst> so it perplexes me that parallizing doesn't help
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2022-03-19 21:45:37 +0100Raito_Bezarius(~Raito@wireguard/tunneler/raito-bezarius) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2022-03-19 21:46:25 +0100 <tomsmeding> Logging is "popular" https://tomsmeding.com/vang/pVguG6/Screenshot_20220319-214450.jpg
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2022-03-19 21:47:28 +0100 <monochrom> haha congrats
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2022-03-19 21:55:00 +0100 <gensyst> I mean, this must be a known phenomena right? You computer science guys in here. Is there no "principle" about this? For example: If a simple computation is being called frequently enough to be a significant percentage of the computing time of your program, no amount of parallelism will help.
2022-03-19 21:55:22 +0100pavonia(~user@user/siracusa)
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2022-03-19 22:00:44 +0100segfaultfizzbuzz(~segfaultf@2602:306:cd3c:9350:698a:c772:fe08:7b1d) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2022-03-19 22:01:20 +0100 <geekosaur> for that function, no. but typically you can't parallelize the entire program: at some point the results of the parallelism are output or processed, and maybe the inputs as well.
2022-03-19 22:01:58 +0100 <geekosaur> and in your example, consider that the database may well be serializing queries if they're compatible enough to be parallelizeable
2022-03-19 22:02:05 +0100Raito_Bezarius(~Raito@wireguard/tunneler/raito-bezarius) (Max SendQ exceeded)
2022-03-19 22:02:32 +0100agrosant(~agrosant@79.103.63.74.dsl.dyn.forthnet.gr)
2022-03-19 22:03:16 +0100 <geekosaur> (and also that you may see profiling showing time in deserialization may mean it's forcing the database query, and you'll have to force it yourself to verify whether it's the real bottleneck or not)
2022-03-19 22:04:55 +0100Raito_Bezarius(~Raito@wireguard/tunneler/raito-bezarius)
2022-03-19 22:06:55 +0100 <dolio> It's not clear what your actual problem is. You might be talking about Amdahl's law. Or you might be noticing that parallelism doesn't help when the overhead of setting up the parallelism is larger than the cost of the individual computations that are running in parallel. But it's impossible to know from a vague complaint.
2022-03-19 22:08:10 +0100agrosant(~agrosant@79.103.63.74.dsl.dyn.forthnet.gr) ()
2022-03-19 22:08:10 +0100agrosant(~agrosant@79.103.63.74.dsl.dyn.forthnet.gr)
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2022-03-19 22:08:58 +0100 <sclv> parallelization of deserialization can work, but it requires some care to set up to work well
2022-03-19 22:09:49 +0100 <sclv> (source: i've worked on parallel deserialization of proto3 from kafka streams for a work project where it can be a significant bottleneck)
2022-03-19 22:10:57 +0100Raito_Bezarius(~Raito@wireguard/tunneler/raito-bezarius)
2022-03-19 22:10:58 +0100 <dolio> I don't think the latter problem has a name, but it was a problem people ran into trying to parallelize Haskell automatically. I would guess it's too obvious to have a name.
2022-03-19 22:11:11 +0100 <sclv> its just called like "picking a chunk size"
2022-03-19 22:11:17 +0100 <sclv> or perhaps "tuning"
2022-03-19 22:11:54 +0100 <sclv> a _lot_ of work in the 80s went into trying to figure out how to do it automatically and well, and it mainly fell flat, although i think nested vectorization came out of it is a worthwhile approach.
2022-03-19 22:12:27 +0100 <dolio> I certainly wouldn't want "dolio's law" to be, "forking a thread to add two machine words doesn't increase performance."
2022-03-19 22:12:32 +0100 <sclv> picking nested chunk sizes is Even Harder so if you rewrite the program so you only need one notion of a tuned size you can arguably figure it out once and forall for a computational architecture
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2022-03-19 22:59:27 +0100deadmarshal_(~deadmarsh@95.38.231.226)
2022-03-19 23:00:51 +0100 <gensyst> dolio, in my case it's just deserialization with the Haskell store library.
2022-03-19 23:01:24 +0100 <gensyst> I tried doing "par" for a bunch (around 10) decode operations, which are called many times
2022-03-19 23:01:30 +0100 <gensyst> but the program actually becomes slower.
2022-03-19 23:02:24 +0100 <gensyst> granted, each decode is very small (the deserialization of a single int or double) so maybe that explains this slowdown
2022-03-19 23:02:50 +0100yuvi(~uv125@pool-71-244-139-81.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net)
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2022-03-19 23:04:05 +0100 <geekosaur> yes, that'sgoing to be poorly parallelizable
2022-03-19 23:04:28 +0100 <gensyst> geekosaur, any insights on why?
2022-03-19 23:04:32 +0100 <gensyst> it's pity lol
2022-03-19 23:04:51 +0100 <geekosaur> more overhead to set it up than to actually do it?
2022-03-19 23:04:55 +0100coot(~coot@213.134.190.95) (Quit: coot)
2022-03-19 23:05:06 +0100 <yuvi> hi all, if i have a quickCheck test that is finding an infinite loop, how can i see what the failing case is?
2022-03-19 23:05:29 +0100 <gensyst> yeah, but a part of me though, how expensive can chunking up into a list/sequence and then dechunking really be? turns out, unfortunately, expensive enough.
2022-03-19 23:05:32 +0100 <gensyst> very pity!
2022-03-19 23:05:40 +0100 <gensyst> but hey, that's life ain't it?
2022-03-19 23:05:49 +0100 <gensyst> s/though/thought
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2022-03-19 23:15:00 +0100 <dolio> Threads aren't free. Decoding an int from a bytestring is like a few machine instructions. So even 10 of them is like a microsecond worth of work.
2022-03-19 23:15:39 +0100 <gensyst> dolio, okay but you're saying that chunking/dechunking are *more* machine instructions?
2022-03-19 23:15:44 +0100coot(~coot@213.134.190.95)
2022-03-19 23:15:46 +0100 <dolio> So if it takes longer than a microsecond to set up the parallel execution, it's a net loss.
2022-03-19 23:16:01 +0100 <gensyst> hmm ok
2022-03-19 23:20:21 +0100foul_owl(~kerry@23.82.193.87) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2022-03-19 23:20:47 +0100 <dolio> Or not just the setup, but all the incremental overhead by having one additional parallel thing going on.
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2022-03-19 23:21:34 +0100 <gensyst> dolio, yeah
2022-03-19 23:21:39 +0100 <gensyst> Well, this is great to know!
2022-03-19 23:21:45 +0100 <gensyst> Thanks my friends for the input!
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2022-03-19 23:50:33 +0100Jeanne-Kamikaze(~Jeanne-Ka@static-198-54-134-121.cust.tzulo.com) (Quit: Leaving)
2022-03-19 23:51:32 +0100acidjnk(~acidjnk@p200300d0c7049f16088a78429da1bd3c.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)