IRCBrowse

2021/12/28

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2021-12-28 00:02:35 +0100 <iphy> which combinator can I use to implement this function? https://github.com/iphydf/hs-cimple/blob/fix/test/Language/Cimple/ASTSpec.hs#L25
2021-12-28 00:03:20 +0100 <EvanR> fmap ?
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2021-12-28 00:10:07 +0100 <iphy> EvanR: fmap on the Fix?
2021-12-28 00:10:27 +0100 <iphy> https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/PkVts157/
2021-12-28 00:10:33 +0100 <EvanR> oh uh, under the Fix ?
2021-12-28 00:10:51 +0100 <iphy> fmap f . unFix?
2021-12-28 00:10:52 +0100 <EvanR> Fix isn't actually there, afterall xD
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2021-12-28 00:11:22 +0100 <EvanR> Fix . fmap f . unFix ?
2021-12-28 00:11:57 +0100 <iphy> https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/Xecn7gdr/
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2021-12-28 00:17:49 +0100 <EvanR> hoistFix :: Functor f => (forall a. f a -> g a) -> Fix f -> Fix g
2021-12-28 00:18:01 +0100 <EvanR> hoistFix' :: Functor g => (forall a. f a -> g a) -> Fix f -> Fix g
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2021-12-28 00:30:17 +0100 <iphy> ah nice
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2021-12-28 00:33:26 +0100 <EvanR> Wonder when this tricks will run out xD
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2021-12-28 01:12:52 +0100 <iphy> EvanR: https://github.com/iphydf/hs-cimple/blob/fix/test/Language/Cimple/ASTSpec.hs#L38
2021-12-28 01:12:57 +0100 <iphy> EvanR: this is getting unwieldy :P
2021-12-28 01:13:08 +0100 <iphy> it's kind of nice, but also kind of really not nice
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2021-12-28 01:32:05 +0100 <EvanR> yeah
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2021-12-28 01:33:42 +0100 <EvanR> view patterns?
2021-12-28 01:34:57 +0100 <pavonia> qrpnxz: Something is wrong with your connection
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2021-12-28 01:36:10 +0100 <qrpnxz> Hm? Alright
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2021-12-28 01:42:43 +0100 <iphy> EvanR: yeah, maybe
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2021-12-28 01:44:00 +0100DNH(~DNH@2a02:8108:1100:16d8:88d3:fc83:402b:ce67)
2021-12-28 01:44:01 +0100 <iphy> EvanR: and maybe quasiquotes at some point
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2021-12-28 01:44:59 +0100 <iphy> for now, I'm going to focus on the actual algorithms I want to write
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2021-12-28 01:48:00 +0100 <iphy> EvanR: https://github.com/iphydf/hs-cimple/blob/fix/test/Language/Cimple/ASTSpec.hs#L53
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2021-12-28 02:00:19 +0100 <pragma-> settle down qrpnxz
2021-12-28 02:02:07 +0100 <geekosaur> they've been bouncing for the past 3 hours, I doubt it's going to stop :(
2021-12-28 02:02:09 +0100qrpnxz(abc4f95c31@user/qrpnxz) (Disconnected: closed)
2021-12-28 02:02:57 +0100 <geekosaur> …or maybe I'm wrong. One can hope
2021-12-28 02:03:27 +0100qrpnxz(abc4f95c31@user/qrpnxz)
2021-12-28 02:03:50 +0100 <geekosaur> welp
2021-12-28 02:04:07 +0100ChanServ+o geekosaur
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2021-12-28 02:04:48 +0100geekosaur-o geekosaur
2021-12-28 02:04:50 +0100qrpnxz(abc4f95c31@user/qrpnxz) ()
2021-12-28 02:05:16 +0100 <geekosaur> ban will time out in 30 minutes
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2021-12-28 02:09:01 +0100euouae(~euouae@user/euouae)
2021-12-28 02:09:19 +0100 <euouae> Hello, where can I read more about type theory? Types, kinds, etc
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2021-12-28 02:15:16 +0100 <sm2n> TAPL is a decent start
2021-12-28 02:15:31 +0100 <sm2n> (that's the book Types and Programming Languages)
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2021-12-28 02:18:18 +0100 <euouae> Thank you. Do you happen to know a more brief text? I might look into TAPL but it is large.
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2021-12-28 02:22:59 +0100 <euouae> I might be able to google the terms from the index and find some papers or something a bit more brief
2021-12-28 02:23:05 +0100 <EvanR> https://github.com/michaelt/martin-lof
2021-12-28 02:24:42 +0100 <euouae> EvanR, lol, looks like they don't care for copyright
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2021-12-28 02:28:23 +0100 <euouae> So `A Theory of Types` followed by `An Intuitionistic Theory of Types` is what I'm looking for?
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2021-12-28 02:31:21 +0100 <euouae> Hm, wikipedia says that Martin-Lof described multiple type theories, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intuitionistic_type_theory#Martin-L%C3%B6f_type_theories
2021-12-28 02:31:28 +0100ksqsf(~user@134.209.106.31)
2021-12-28 02:33:36 +0100 <EvanR> I think MLTT went through a few modifications
2021-12-28 02:33:56 +0100 <EvanR> any of those old papers is a good start
2021-12-28 02:34:25 +0100 <euouae> Is there prerequisite knowledge? Would I need to know a lot of untyped lambda calculus? Do I need the Curry-Howard corresp theorem?
2021-12-28 02:34:38 +0100ChanServ+o litharge
2021-12-28 02:34:40 +0100litharge-bo *!*@user/qrpnxz litharge
2021-12-28 02:34:55 +0100 <EvanR> untyped lambda calculus is even more complicated, if you want to describe it with types
2021-12-28 02:35:33 +0100 <EvanR> if you start with basic types, simply typed lambda calculus, it turns out pretty simple
2021-12-28 02:35:35 +0100 <euouae> oh no that's not my intention I was just wondering if knowledge of how untyped lambda calculus works would be necessary/beneficial in studying the papers you linked
2021-12-28 02:36:03 +0100 <euouae> I'm talking about the more involved properties of it, not the basic definition of what untyped lambda calculus is
2021-12-28 02:36:16 +0100 <euouae> the reductions and such
2021-12-28 02:36:20 +0100 <EvanR> none of those matter to lambda calculus with simple types
2021-12-28 02:36:36 +0100 <euouae> and why do you mention lambda calculus with simple types?
2021-12-28 02:36:49 +0100ksqsf(~user@134.209.106.31) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2021-12-28 02:37:01 +0100 <euouae> so STLC seems to start with some universe of types T, but I'm curious about the laws/rules of that universe
2021-12-28 02:37:05 +0100 <EvanR> I assume you want to start at the beginning
2021-12-28 02:37:51 +0100 <EvanR> a universe could consist of () and for any two types A and B, A -> B
2021-12-28 02:37:51 +0100 <euouae> Isn't STLC equal to types (of some form) + lambda calculus? Type theory should precede it, right?
2021-12-28 02:38:31 +0100 <EvanR> there's no one type theory, but many begin by telling you there are functions and this is how they work
2021-12-28 02:38:46 +0100 <EvanR> make them with lambda, you can apply them, and they have a type
2021-12-28 02:39:12 +0100 <euouae> OK but the type theory of () plus arrows does not seem to have the features such as "kinds" etc. Even if you can model those features in it, they're not explicit. Right?
2021-12-28 02:39:34 +0100whaletechno(~whaletech@user/whaletechno) (Quit: ha det bra)
2021-12-28 02:40:15 +0100 <EvanR> kinds comes up with theories that are more complicated but not as complicated as dependently typed lambda calculus
2021-12-28 02:40:29 +0100 <EvanR> middlingly complicated
2021-12-28 02:40:42 +0100 <EvanR> actually with dependent types, the kind system collapses and simplifies
2021-12-28 02:41:03 +0100 <EvanR> sounds like you find the starting stuff boring, and as such, just go ahead and read all those papers xD
2021-12-28 02:41:31 +0100 <euouae> so the ML type theories in those papers are dependent type theories?
2021-12-28 02:42:13 +0100 <euouae> I don't find it boring necessarily but I want to make an incision because I don't have a lot of time
2021-12-28 02:42:34 +0100 <EvanR> then you'd better get started!
2021-12-28 02:42:54 +0100 <EvanR> become adept at reading especially fast
2021-12-28 02:43:02 +0100 <euouae> yeah I'm just trying to figure out what my goal is
2021-12-28 02:43:29 +0100 <EvanR> write a theorem prover? xD
2021-12-28 02:44:03 +0100 <euouae> no goal in terms of what to read
2021-12-28 02:44:38 +0100 <euouae> ncatlab point to this reference, https://www.cs.le.ac.uk/events/mgs2009/courses/gambino/lecturenotes-gambino.pdf
2021-12-28 02:44:42 +0100 <EvanR> the first chapter of HoMM covers a lot of basics, I'm sorry it's not the size of a pamphlet
2021-12-28 02:44:46 +0100 <euouae> This may be the first time that I was able to make use of ncatlab
2021-12-28 02:45:06 +0100 <EvanR> it's like 10 pages
2021-12-28 02:45:11 +0100 <euouae> What's HoMM?
2021-12-28 02:45:21 +0100 <EvanR> heroes of might and magic
2021-12-28 02:45:36 +0100 <EvanR> I meant to say, Homotopy Type Theory
2021-12-28 02:45:47 +0100 <euouae> got you, okay. It's a good game btw
2021-12-28 02:47:56 +0100 <EvanR> there is a type theory channel and a hott channel, last I checked
2021-12-28 02:48:58 +0100kaph(~kaph@net-2-38-107-19.cust.vodafonedsl.it)
2021-12-28 02:49:37 +0100 <euouae> ah nice, thank you
2021-12-28 02:49:52 +0100ksqsf(~user@134.209.106.31)
2021-12-28 02:50:06 +0100 <euouae> I've seen so many high level discussions here in #haskell that it's my go-to channel when I'm desparate
2021-12-28 02:50:43 +0100 <euouae> I think I'm set for now, thanks again
2021-12-28 02:53:25 +0100euouae(~euouae@user/euouae) (Quit: )
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2021-12-28 03:08:57 +0100shaprhugs geekosaur
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2021-12-28 03:14:54 +0100burnsidesLlama(~burnsides@dhcp168-010.wadham.ox.ac.uk)
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2021-12-28 03:35:23 +0100allensanford(~allensanf@c-76-108-242-88.hsd1.fl.comcast.net)
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2021-12-28 03:47:47 +0100nattiestnate(~nate@114.122.105.227)
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2021-12-28 03:49:40 +0100xff0x(~xff0x@2001:1a81:5206:b200:fb79:da97:621d:d351)
2021-12-28 03:54:48 +0100meinside(uid24933@id-24933.helmsley.irccloud.com)
2021-12-28 03:57:43 +0100 <otherwis_> • Couldn't match expected type ‘a -> [a10]’ with actual type ‘[b3]’ what do the numbers [a10] and [b3] mean in this error message? I want for error messages to be helpful, but I'm struggling to interpret them.
2021-12-28 03:58:54 +0100 <EvanR> temporary type variables, unknowns in the type checking process
2021-12-28 03:59:15 +0100 <EvanR> you might be able to get better messages by putting your own type signatures
2021-12-28 03:59:46 +0100 <EvanR> even if you don't, you can see that you put a list where it thinks a function is required
2021-12-28 04:01:13 +0100 <EvanR> forgot a function argument? put too many arguments?
2021-12-28 04:01:23 +0100 <otherwis_> 'a -> [a10]' == 'function -> list'. when it was expecting [b3] == list. ?
2021-12-28 04:01:31 +0100Morrow(~quassel@bzq-110-168-31-106.red.bezeqint.net)
2021-12-28 04:01:38 +0100 <EvanR> -> is a function
2021-12-28 04:01:41 +0100 <EvanR> [ ] is a list
2021-12-28 04:01:47 +0100 <otherwis_> Well I know what the problem was, and I put it there intentionally to see if I could interpret the error message
2021-12-28 04:02:30 +0100 <EvanR> and the problem was?
2021-12-28 04:02:37 +0100 <otherwis_> Oh! -> is a function, okay.
2021-12-28 04:03:14 +0100Vajb(~Vajb@hag-jnsbng11-58c3a8-176.dhcp.inet.fi) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-12-28 04:03:25 +0100Vajb(~Vajb@hag-jnsbng11-58c3a8-176.dhcp.inet.fi)
2021-12-28 04:04:32 +0100 <EvanR> if you don't put type signatures, it has to guess what you want and there are more unknowns. If you also screwed up, things get iffy.
2021-12-28 04:05:14 +0100 <otherwis_> > let oddSq = filter odd . map (^2) [1..] in take 2 oddSq
2021-12-28 04:05:16 +0100 <lambdabot> error:
2021-12-28 04:05:16 +0100 <lambdabot> • Couldn't match expected type ‘a2 -> [a3]’ with actual type ‘[b1]’
2021-12-28 04:05:16 +0100 <lambdabot> • Possible cause: ‘map’ is applied to too many arguments
2021-12-28 04:05:18 +0100 <EvanR> if it can't come to a single (possibly polymorphic) solution, it will barf everything it knows back at you
2021-12-28 04:05:58 +0100 <otherwis_> > let oddSq = filter odd $ map (^2) [1..] in take 2 oddSq
2021-12-28 04:05:59 +0100 <lambdabot> [1,9]
2021-12-28 04:06:02 +0100fizbin(~fizbin@c-73-33-197-160.hsd1.nj.comcast.net)
2021-12-28 04:06:33 +0100 <EvanR> so you tried to compose a function with a list
2021-12-28 04:06:46 +0100 <EvanR> compose takes 2 functions
2021-12-28 04:06:46 +0100alekhine_(~alekhine@c-73-38-152-33.hsd1.ma.comcast.net)
2021-12-28 04:07:08 +0100 <otherwis_> isnt map a function
2021-12-28 04:07:26 +0100 <EvanR> parentheses
2021-12-28 04:07:32 +0100 <EvanR> you wrote
2021-12-28 04:07:35 +0100otherwis_otherwise
2021-12-28 04:07:41 +0100 <EvanR> (filter odd) . (map (^2) [1..])
2021-12-28 04:07:52 +0100alekhine_(~alekhine@c-73-38-152-33.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) (Client Quit)
2021-12-28 04:08:00 +0100 <EvanR> map (^2) [1..] isn't a function
2021-12-28 04:08:35 +0100 <EvanR> no, the error message doesn't explain all this unfortunately
2021-12-28 04:09:08 +0100 <EvanR> (filter odd . map (^2)) [1..] -- would work
2021-12-28 04:10:17 +0100fizbin(~fizbin@c-73-33-197-160.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-12-28 04:10:30 +0100 <ksqsf> The error message is leaking internal details on how type inference works, which may or may not be what you want
2021-12-28 04:10:37 +0100machinedgod(~machinedg@24.105.81.50)
2021-12-28 04:12:17 +0100 <otherwise> > let oS = (filter odd . map (^2) ) [1..] in take 3 . drop 100 . oS
2021-12-28 04:12:18 +0100 <lambdabot> error:
2021-12-28 04:12:18 +0100 <lambdabot> • Couldn't match expected type ‘a -> [a1]’ with actual type ‘[a0]’
2021-12-28 04:12:18 +0100 <lambdabot> • In the second argument of ‘(.)’, namely ‘oS’
2021-12-28 04:12:36 +0100 <otherwise> > let oS = (filter odd . map (^2) ) [1..] in take 3 $ drop 100 $ oS
2021-12-28 04:12:37 +0100 <EvanR> now you have a problem on the right side
2021-12-28 04:12:38 +0100 <lambdabot> [40401,41209,42025]
2021-12-28 04:12:41 +0100 <EvanR> ok good
2021-12-28 04:12:56 +0100allensanford(~allensanf@c-76-108-242-88.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) (Quit: allensanford)
2021-12-28 04:13:21 +0100 <otherwise> not confident between using function composition vs function application
2021-12-28 04:13:26 +0100 <EvanR> let f = take 3 . drop 100 . filter odd . map (^2) in f [1..]
2021-12-28 04:13:34 +0100 <EvanR> look no parens or dollars xD
2021-12-28 04:14:13 +0100 <dsal> $ makes your code expensive.
2021-12-28 04:14:14 +0100 <EvanR> you should internalize that function composition of two functions is always another function
2021-12-28 04:14:56 +0100 <dsal> Thus the result of a composition will always need an argument.
2021-12-28 04:15:20 +0100 <EvanR> (b -> c) -> (a -> b) -> (a -> c)
2021-12-28 04:15:37 +0100 <ksqsf> A useful equation: f (g x) = f $ g x = f . g $ x
2021-12-28 04:16:08 +0100 <EvanR> just learning this stuff without unnecessary $ will help
2021-12-28 04:16:27 +0100 <EvanR> even if you need parentheses sometimes
2021-12-28 04:19:32 +0100pretty_dumm_guy(trottel@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/prettydummguy/x-88029655) (Quit: WeeChat 3.4)
2021-12-28 04:20:09 +0100 <EvanR> otherwise, you know unix pipelines? The pipe of two (or more) commands is a bigger command, not a string. Pipe composes
2021-12-28 04:21:10 +0100 <otherwise> (b -> c) -> (a -> b) -> (a -> c) translates to: ('argument' 'function' 'return) 'function' ('arg' fun' 'return') 'fun' ( 'arg' 'fun' 'return') ?
2021-12-28 04:21:27 +0100 <otherwise> i'm not any good at this yet...
2021-12-28 04:21:58 +0100 <EvanR> that's the type of .
2021-12-28 04:22:06 +0100 <EvanR> two functions go in, one comes out
2021-12-28 04:23:43 +0100 <otherwise> (2 argument function in) -> ( 2 argument function in) -> (2 argument function out)
2021-12-28 04:23:50 +0100 <EvanR> 1 argument functions
2021-12-28 04:24:16 +0100 <EvanR> all of them
2021-12-28 04:26:22 +0100 <dsal> otherwise: `b -> c` is a function that takes a `b` and returns a `c`
2021-12-28 04:27:56 +0100 <dsal> Think about it at a higher level. If you have an `a` and you need a `c`, and you have a way to take an `a` and make a `b` and a way to take a `b` and make a `c`, then you can compose those and have a way to take an `a` and make a `c`. This is clearer when you use concrete types.
2021-12-28 04:28:54 +0100 <dsal> I have a string that represents a number, and I've got a function that adds one to a number. Can I add one to the numeric value in a string?
2021-12-28 04:28:55 +0100 <dsal> :t succ
2021-12-28 04:28:56 +0100 <lambdabot> Enum a => a -> a
2021-12-28 04:28:57 +0100 <dsal> :t read
2021-12-28 04:28:58 +0100 <lambdabot> Read a => String -> a
2021-12-28 04:29:03 +0100 <dsal> :t show . succ. read
2021-12-28 04:29:04 +0100 <lambdabot> String -> String
2021-12-28 04:29:12 +0100 <dsal> > (show . succ . read) 3
2021-12-28 04:29:14 +0100 <lambdabot> error:
2021-12-28 04:29:14 +0100 <lambdabot> • No instance for (Num String) arising from the literal ‘3’
2021-12-28 04:29:14 +0100 <lambdabot> • In the first argument of ‘show . succ . read’, namely ‘3’
2021-12-28 04:29:17 +0100 <dsal> > (show . succ . read) "3"
2021-12-28 04:29:18 +0100 <lambdabot> "*Exception: Prelude.Enum.().succ: bad argument
2021-12-28 04:29:20 +0100 <EvanR> lol, nice eexample
2021-12-28 04:29:22 +0100 <dsal> lame
2021-12-28 04:29:39 +0100 <dsal> This is a case where it works better when you have types written out.
2021-12-28 04:30:01 +0100 <EvanR> (bad example overcomplicated by polymorphics, type classes, and it not working)
2021-12-28 04:30:02 +0100 <otherwise> i dont know unix pipelines yet.
2021-12-28 04:30:12 +0100 <EvanR> ok so that was not a great analogy either
2021-12-28 04:30:13 +0100 <otherwise> dsal that description is very clear, thanks!
2021-12-28 04:30:21 +0100 <dsal> > (succ . read) "3" :: Int
2021-12-28 04:30:23 +0100 <lambdabot> 4
2021-12-28 04:30:23 +0100 <otherwise> not the lambdabod stuff
2021-12-28 04:30:44 +0100 <dsal> Trying to make it a String pushed it too far without describing the intermediate types.
2021-12-28 04:30:46 +0100 <dsal> :t show . read
2021-12-28 04:30:47 +0100 <lambdabot> String -> String
2021-12-28 04:31:01 +0100 <otherwise> I can just do it in ghci
2021-12-28 04:31:04 +0100 <EvanR> > (chr . (+1) . ord) 'a'
2021-12-28 04:31:06 +0100 <lambdabot> 'b'
2021-12-28 04:31:12 +0100 <EvanR> > (chr . (+1) . ord) 'y'
2021-12-28 04:31:14 +0100 <lambdabot> 'z'
2021-12-28 04:31:15 +0100 <dsal> Type Applications helps.
2021-12-28 04:31:47 +0100 <EvanR> chr and ord are good simple functions since they deal with mono concrete types
2021-12-28 04:31:49 +0100 <dsal> Yeah, chr/ord is narrower.
2021-12-28 04:31:52 +0100 <dsal> :t chr
2021-12-28 04:31:54 +0100 <lambdabot> Int -> Char
2021-12-28 04:31:54 +0100 <dsal> :t ord
2021-12-28 04:31:55 +0100 <lambdabot> Char -> Int
2021-12-28 04:32:20 +0100 <dsal> Read and Show are huge even if they weren't open.
2021-12-28 04:32:36 +0100 <otherwise> > :t (chr . (+1) . ord) 'a'
2021-12-28 04:32:37 +0100 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:1: error: parse error on input ‘:’
2021-12-28 04:32:51 +0100 <otherwise> > :t ((chr . (+1) . ord) 'a')
2021-12-28 04:32:53 +0100 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:1: error: parse error on input ‘:’
2021-12-28 04:32:54 +0100 <EvanR> oof
2021-12-28 04:32:59 +0100 <dsal> :t ((chr . (+1) . ord) 'a')
2021-12-28 04:32:59 +0100FinnElija(~finn_elij@user/finn-elija/x-0085643) (Killed (NickServ (Forcing logout FinnElija -> finn_elija)))
2021-12-28 04:32:59 +0100finn_elija(~finn_elij@user/finn-elija/x-0085643)
2021-12-28 04:32:59 +0100finn_elijaFinnElija
2021-12-28 04:33:00 +0100 <lambdabot> Char
2021-12-28 04:33:00 +0100 <EvanR> use > or :t, not both
2021-12-28 04:33:25 +0100 <EvanR> :t chr . (+1) . ord
2021-12-28 04:33:27 +0100 <lambdabot> Char -> Char
2021-12-28 04:33:28 +0100 <otherwise> :t ((chr . (+1) . ord)
2021-12-28 04:33:29 +0100 <lambdabot> error:
2021-12-28 04:33:29 +0100 <lambdabot> parse error (possibly incorrect indentation or mismatched brackets)
2021-12-28 04:33:36 +0100 <otherwise> :t (chr . (+1) . ord
2021-12-28 04:33:37 +0100 <lambdabot> error:
2021-12-28 04:33:37 +0100 <lambdabot> parse error (possibly incorrect indentation or mismatched brackets)
2021-12-28 04:33:46 +0100 <EvanR> the hazards of necessary parens xD
2021-12-28 04:33:52 +0100 <EvanR> unnecessary
2021-12-28 04:34:07 +0100 <otherwise> ah geez, i'll leave lambdabot alone
2021-12-28 04:36:05 +0100yauhsien(~yauhsien@61-231-42-148.dynamic-ip.hinet.net)
2021-12-28 04:38:22 +0100yauhsien(~yauhsien@61-231-42-148.dynamic-ip.hinet.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-12-28 04:39:19 +0100shapr(~user@pool-100-36-247-68.washdc.fios.verizon.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-12-28 04:39:20 +0100yauhsien(~yauhsien@61-231-42-148.dynamic-ip.hinet.net)
2021-12-28 04:39:34 +0100 <EvanR> drake dislikes f (g (h (foo (bar (baz x)))))
2021-12-28 04:39:57 +0100 <EvanR> drake likes f . g . h . foo . bar . baz xD
2021-12-28 04:41:18 +0100 <EvanR> possibly apply the x with parens over the whole thing, naming this chain something, or $ (last resort)
2021-12-28 04:43:21 +0100falafel_(~falafel@2603-8000-d800-688c-6db4-c125-f693-41cb.res6.spectrum.com)
2021-12-28 04:43:57 +0100yauhsien(~yauhsien@61-231-42-148.dynamic-ip.hinet.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-12-28 04:45:30 +0100falafel__(~falafel@2603-8000-d800-688c-6db4-c125-f693-41cb.res6.spectrum.com)
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2021-12-28 04:48:28 +0100kaph_(~kaph@net-2-38-107-19.cust.vodafonedsl.it)
2021-12-28 04:48:30 +0100kaph(~kaph@net-2-38-107-19.cust.vodafonedsl.it) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-12-28 04:52:35 +0100terrorjack(~terrorjac@2a01:4f8:1c1e:509a::1) (Quit: The Lounge - https://thelounge.chat)
2021-12-28 04:52:54 +0100 <dsal> otherwise: You can have private conversations with lambdabot
2021-12-28 04:53:49 +0100terrorjack(~terrorjac@2a01:4f8:1c1e:509a::1)
2021-12-28 04:57:21 +0100td_(~td@muedsl-82-207-238-094.citykom.de) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2021-12-28 04:59:08 +0100td_(~td@muedsl-82-207-238-177.citykom.de)
2021-12-28 05:00:10 +0100 <EvanR> forgive me lambdabot for I have unsafeCoerced
2021-12-28 05:00:51 +0100yauhsien(~yauhsien@61-231-42-148.dynamic-ip.hinet.net)
2021-12-28 05:02:57 +0100falafel__(~falafel@2603-8000-d800-688c-6db4-c125-f693-41cb.res6.spectrum.com) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-12-28 05:05:34 +0100yauhsien(~yauhsien@61-231-42-148.dynamic-ip.hinet.net) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-12-28 05:10:38 +0100 <monochrom> heh
2021-12-28 05:11:10 +0100 <otherwise> > reverse . filter (< 'a') $ filter (/= ' ') "Oh lambdabot do you want to speak with me yes or No"
2021-12-28 05:11:11 +0100 <lambdabot> "NO"
2021-12-28 05:13:38 +0100alfonsox(~quassel@103.92.42.161)
2021-12-28 05:14:50 +0100yauhsien(~yauhsien@61-231-42-148.dynamic-ip.hinet.net)
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2021-12-28 05:19:28 +0100Vajb(~Vajb@hag-jnsbng11-58c3a8-176.dhcp.inet.fi)
2021-12-28 05:19:32 +0100dsrt^(~dsrt@207.5.54.6) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2021-12-28 05:28:49 +0100srwm^(~srwm@207.5.54.6)
2021-12-28 05:29:20 +0100 <EvanR> lol
2021-12-28 05:30:12 +0100nurupo(~nurupo.ga@user/nurupo) (Quit: nurupo.ga)
2021-12-28 05:30:43 +0100nurupo(~nurupo.ga@user/nurupo)
2021-12-28 05:31:00 +0100deadmarshal(~deadmarsh@95.38.112.219)
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2021-12-28 05:35:15 +0100amk(~amk@109.255.169.126)
2021-12-28 05:37:49 +0100machinedgod(~machinedg@24.105.81.50) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-12-28 05:39:57 +0100n3rdy1(~n3rdy1@2601:281:c780:a510:f129:8ed3:b1ff:82ed) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-12-28 05:43:02 +0100merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
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2021-12-28 06:02:06 +0100rekahsoft(~rekahsoft@cpe0008a20f982f-cm64777d666260.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2021-12-28 06:44:25 +0100Rum(~bourbon@user/rum) (Quit: WeeChat 3.4)
2021-12-28 06:44:56 +0100ksqsf(~user@134.209.106.31) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2021-12-28 06:59:08 +0100hololeap(~hololeap@user/hololeap)
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2021-12-28 07:18:48 +0100pavonia(~user@user/siracusa)
2021-12-28 07:19:03 +0100slowButPresent(~slowButPr@user/slowbutpresent) (Quit: leaving)
2021-12-28 07:25:08 +0100spaceseller(~spacesell@31.147.205.13)
2021-12-28 07:28:01 +0100x88x88x(~x88x88x@2001:19f0:5:39a8:5400:3ff:feb6:73cb) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-12-28 07:28:50 +0100x88x88x(~x88x88x@2001:19f0:5:39a8:5400:3ff:feb6:73cb)
2021-12-28 07:32:43 +0100notzmv(~zmv@user/notzmv)
2021-12-28 07:34:13 +0100jinsun(~quassel@user/jinsun) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-12-28 07:36:00 +0100tromp(~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl)
2021-12-28 07:38:17 +0100Guest|80(~Guest|80@185.237.102.187)
2021-12-28 07:41:41 +0100coot(~coot@89-64-85-93.dynamic.chello.pl) (Quit: coot)
2021-12-28 07:44:25 +0100 <Guest|80> Uploaded file: https://uploads.kiwiirc.com/files/42ec33f07bbab40fb13e82a251ba1551/installFailed.png
2021-12-28 07:45:15 +0100 <maerwald[m]> Guest|80: your curl doesn't work
2021-12-28 07:45:31 +0100 <maerwald[m]> Try wget
2021-12-28 07:46:06 +0100 <Guest|80> same comand but just wget? or have I change the whole instruction?
2021-12-28 07:46:20 +0100 <dmj`> Is it possible to figured out which packages use RankNTypes on hackage
2021-12-28 07:46:56 +0100tromp(~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2021-12-28 07:47:01 +0100 <maerwald[m]> Guest|80: sec
2021-12-28 07:47:26 +0100 <dsal> dmj`: I downloaded all of hackage to do ask questions like that once.
2021-12-28 07:47:59 +0100 <maerwald[m]> Guest|80: `ghcup config set downloader Wget`
2021-12-28 07:48:03 +0100 <dmj`> dsal: how'd that go?
2021-12-28 07:48:03 +0100 <maerwald[m]> Try that
2021-12-28 07:48:23 +0100 <dsal> dmj`: It was neat. I found a lot of neat things. It's pretty easy to answer that kind of question, but I don't have my download any longer.
2021-12-28 07:49:10 +0100 <maerwald[m]> Guest|80: might need to run `source ~/.ghcup/env` first
2021-12-28 07:49:11 +0100falafel(~falafel@2603-8000-d800-688c-6db4-c125-f693-41cb.res6.spectrum.com)
2021-12-28 07:49:57 +0100deadmarshal(~deadmarsh@95.38.112.219)
2021-12-28 07:53:08 +0100 <Guest|80> ghcup config set downloader Wget     doesnt work in tty.. maerwald  what do you mean with run .ghcup/env?  I found the data
2021-12-28 07:53:09 +0100 <dmj`> dsal: https://github.com/nh2/hackage-download , well well
2021-12-28 07:54:27 +0100 <maerwald[m]> Guest|80: i mean: run `source ~/.ghcup/env`
2021-12-28 07:54:38 +0100 <maerwald[m]> What else would I mean?
2021-12-28 07:54:47 +0100 <dsal> dmj`: I don't think I used that. It was something about a cabal command that dumps out all the things, something to make URLs out of them, and then curl to do the needful.
2021-12-28 07:55:01 +0100 <dsal> In any case, it wasn't that hard to get all the source files down.
2021-12-28 07:59:51 +0100 <dmj`> there should be a search engine for this stuff
2021-12-28 08:00:00 +0100 <dmj`> "hookah"
2021-12-28 08:00:09 +0100 <dmj`> hackage meets hoogle
2021-12-28 08:06:29 +0100 <Guest|80> cant reach github.com. Any Idear? I ping it, but nothing...
2021-12-28 08:07:43 +0100fizbin(~fizbin@c-73-33-197-160.hsd1.nj.comcast.net)
2021-12-28 08:08:54 +0100 <EvanR> https://www.githubstatus.com/
2021-12-28 08:09:16 +0100perrierjouet(~perrier-j@modemcable012.251-130-66.mc.videotron.ca) (Quit: WeeChat 3.3)
2021-12-28 08:10:13 +0100spaceseller(~spacesell@31.147.205.13) (Quit: Leaving)
2021-12-28 08:11:30 +0100 <Guest|80> timeout. Dont know, maybe I have made something wrong with git that this website is blocked for me? Or have I managed to block myself from github?
2021-12-28 08:12:33 +0100fizbin(~fizbin@c-73-33-197-160.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-12-28 08:13:45 +0100merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
2021-12-28 08:16:20 +0100takuan(~takuan@178-116-218-225.access.telenet.be)
2021-12-28 08:16:21 +0100 <Guest|80> Uploaded file: https://uploads.kiwiirc.com/files/3c49132434b8beda7aaeeaf8edcf0ad2/githubNotKnown.png
2021-12-28 08:17:21 +0100 <int-e> Guest|80: drop the https://
2021-12-28 08:17:39 +0100spaceseller(~spacesell@31.147.205.13)
2021-12-28 08:17:40 +0100 <Guest|80> I have done it later down... same
2021-12-28 08:17:41 +0100 <int-e> oh you did, sorry
2021-12-28 08:17:58 +0100 <Guest|80> changed also dns server
2021-12-28 08:18:54 +0100[itchyjunk](~itchyjunk@user/itchyjunk/x-7353470) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-12-28 08:19:13 +0100spaceseller(~spacesell@31.147.205.13) (Client Quit)
2021-12-28 08:19:38 +0100spaceseller(~spacesell@31.147.205.13)
2021-12-28 08:21:21 +0100spaceseller(~spacesell@31.147.205.13) (Client Quit)
2021-12-28 08:21:41 +0100 <int-e> Fun. You may have a local dns proxy that caches replies. Among a plethora of possible causes.
2021-12-28 08:22:03 +0100tromp(~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl)
2021-12-28 08:23:48 +0100 <Guest|80> With traceroute github.com its the same; the name or service not known...  Can it be that my Android-handy caches the results for me?
2021-12-28 08:25:30 +0100deadmarshal(~deadmarsh@95.38.112.219) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-12-28 08:26:10 +0100 <Guest|80> but I used Cloudflare 1.1.1.1 and could not believe they prevent me from github.com
2021-12-28 08:26:33 +0100 <Guest|80> Uploaded file: https://uploads.kiwiirc.com/files/cf6fb0d7042c10cd85d7244b7a684524/DnsServer.png
2021-12-28 08:26:47 +0100spaceseller(~spacesell@31.147.205.13)
2021-12-28 08:27:20 +0100spaceseller(~spacesell@31.147.205.13) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-12-28 08:30:37 +0100 <int-e> cool. host www.github.com 172.70.84.168 --> ;; connection timed out; no servers could be reached
2021-12-28 08:31:36 +0100spaceseller(~spacesell@31.147.205.13)
2021-12-28 08:33:35 +0100 <Guest|80> hey the Ip-Adress works.
2021-12-28 08:35:54 +0100 <int-e> (but Cloudflare does weird stuff with routing as its core business, your results may be different)
2021-12-28 08:36:48 +0100deadmarshal(~deadmarsh@95.38.112.219)
2021-12-28 08:37:59 +0100Guest|80(~Guest|80@185.237.102.187) (Quit: Connection closed)
2021-12-28 08:40:34 +0100 <dmj`> dsal: its saying there's ~3,435 packages on hackage
2021-12-28 08:40:34 +0100gentauro(~gentauro@user/gentauro) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-12-28 08:41:30 +0100coolnickname(uid531864@user/coolnickname)
2021-12-28 08:44:57 +0100drewr(~drew@user/drewr) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-12-28 08:44:58 +0100yauhsien(~yauhsien@61-231-42-148.dynamic-ip.hinet.net)
2021-12-28 08:46:00 +0100 <dmj`> dsal: it says 19% of hackage uses RankNTypes
2021-12-28 08:46:07 +0100gentauro(~gentauro@user/gentauro)
2021-12-28 08:46:16 +0100 <dmj`> dsal: now, some of these packages just list RankNTypes, and don't actually use it too ...
2021-12-28 08:47:49 +0100merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-12-28 08:48:14 +0100perrierjouet(~perrier-j@modemcable012.251-130-66.mc.videotron.ca)
2021-12-28 08:50:12 +0100perrierjouet(~perrier-j@modemcable012.251-130-66.mc.videotron.ca) (Client Quit)
2021-12-28 08:51:02 +0100yauhsien(~yauhsien@61-231-42-148.dynamic-ip.hinet.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-12-28 08:51:56 +0100YoungFrog(~youngfrog@39.129-180-91.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be)
2021-12-28 08:51:56 +0100perrierjouet(~perrier-j@modemcable012.251-130-66.mc.videotron.ca)
2021-12-28 09:01:35 +0100deadmarshal(~deadmarsh@95.38.112.219) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2021-12-28 09:02:36 +0100deadmarshal(~deadmarsh@95.38.112.219)
2021-12-28 09:07:00 +0100gioyik(~gioyik@gateway/tor-sasl/gioyik) (Quit: WeeChat 3.3)
2021-12-28 09:07:54 +0100Sgeo_(~Sgeo@user/sgeo) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-12-28 09:09:16 +0100kaph(~kaph@net-2-38-107-19.cust.vodafonedsl.it)
2021-12-28 09:09:52 +0100kaph_(~kaph@net-2-38-107-19.cust.vodafonedsl.it) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-12-28 09:11:00 +0100shriekingnoise(~shrieking@186.137.144.80) (Quit: Quit)
2021-12-28 09:13:23 +0100nattiestnate(~nate@114.122.105.227) (Quit: WeeChat 3.4)
2021-12-28 09:13:29 +0100 <dmj`> dsal: it might actually be 13%
2021-12-28 09:14:03 +0100deadmarshal(~deadmarsh@95.38.112.219) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2021-12-28 09:24:33 +0100spaceseller(~spacesell@31.147.205.13) (Quit: Leaving)
2021-12-28 09:27:43 +0100cosimone(~user@93-47-231-248.ip115.fastwebnet.it)
2021-12-28 09:31:03 +0100wroathe(~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
2021-12-28 09:31:03 +0100wroathe(~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) (Changing host)
2021-12-28 09:31:03 +0100wroathe(~wroathe@user/wroathe)
2021-12-28 09:32:46 +0100Akiva(~Akiva@user/Akiva)
2021-12-28 09:35:46 +0100wroathe(~wroathe@user/wroathe) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2021-12-28 09:38:49 +0100 <otherwise> λ
2021-12-28 09:39:36 +0100qrpnxz(abc4f95c31@user/qrpnxz)
2021-12-28 09:41:07 +0100 <tomsmeding> \
2021-12-28 09:43:14 +0100Erutuon(~Erutuon@user/erutuon) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-12-28 09:46:17 +0100 <EvanR> it's simplified greek to me
2021-12-28 09:55:13 +0100 <otherwise> concatMap work, where the function input is (+3) ?
2021-12-28 09:55:28 +0100 <otherwise> I am only able to make concatMap work with replicate
2021-12-28 09:57:55 +0100 <EvanR> look at the types
2021-12-28 09:58:23 +0100 <otherwise> okay
2021-12-28 09:58:50 +0100 <xerox> not very well
2021-12-28 09:58:56 +0100 <otherwise> I dont know what t a means...
2021-12-28 09:59:21 +0100 <xerox> :t concatMap
2021-12-28 09:59:22 +0100 <lambdabot> Foldable t => (a -> [b]) -> t a -> [b]
2021-12-28 10:00:10 +0100TomWesterhout[m](~twesterho@2001:470:69fc:105::1:2918) (Quit: You have been kicked for being idle)
2021-12-28 10:00:16 +0100 <otherwise> so you input a function and a list, then you input a "t a", then you get a list returned?
2021-12-28 10:00:27 +0100merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
2021-12-28 10:00:28 +0100 <xerox> almost
2021-12-28 10:00:29 +0100TomWesterhout[m](~twesterho@2001:470:69fc:105::1:2918)
2021-12-28 10:00:42 +0100 <xerox> the parens are important, the first argument is a function, the second a "t a"
2021-12-28 10:00:43 +0100 <tomsmeding> % :t +d concatMap
2021-12-28 10:00:44 +0100 <yahb> tomsmeding: (a -> [b]) -> [a] -> [b]
2021-12-28 10:00:46 +0100TomWesterhout[m](~twesterho@2001:470:69fc:105::1:2918) ()
2021-12-28 10:00:55 +0100 <tomsmeding> otherwise: you can read it like this at first
2021-12-28 10:01:10 +0100 <xerox> i.e. the first arg is a function from 'a' to '[b]'
2021-12-28 10:01:35 +0100 <tomsmeding> actually, concatMap is generalised to not only accept a list as the second argument, but also other stuff that's sufficiently "list-like"; for lists, t = [] so that t a = [a]
2021-12-28 10:01:41 +0100econo(uid147250@user/econo) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2021-12-28 10:02:02 +0100 <xerox> so it's saying, given a function that assigns a [b] to any given a, and a "list of 'a's", I can make a list of 'b's
2021-12-28 10:02:42 +0100 <tomsmeding> > concatMap (\n -> replicate n 42) [1,2,3]
2021-12-28 10:02:44 +0100 <lambdabot> [42,42,42,42,42,42]
2021-12-28 10:02:48 +0100 <tomsmeding> > concat (map (\n -> replicate n 42) [1,2,3])
2021-12-28 10:02:50 +0100 <lambdabot> [42,42,42,42,42,42]
2021-12-28 10:02:54 +0100 <tomsmeding> > map (\n -> replicate n 42) [1,2,3]
2021-12-28 10:02:56 +0100 <lambdabot> [[42],[42,42],[42,42,42]]
2021-12-28 10:04:00 +0100zmt01(~zmt00@user/zmt00) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-12-28 10:04:18 +0100 <otherwise> whoa
2021-12-28 10:04:40 +0100theproffesor(~theproffe@user/theproffesor) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-12-28 10:04:45 +0100zmt01(~zmt00@user/zmt00)
2021-12-28 10:04:45 +0100the_proffesor(~theproffe@2601:282:847f:8010::5fff)
2021-12-28 10:04:45 +0100the_proffesor(~theproffe@2601:282:847f:8010::5fff) (Changing host)
2021-12-28 10:04:45 +0100the_proffesor(~theproffe@user/theproffesor)
2021-12-28 10:04:59 +0100 <otherwise> so is replicate the only usable function here?
2021-12-28 10:05:06 +0100jinsun(~quassel@user/jinsun)
2021-12-28 10:05:11 +0100 <tomsmeding> anything that produces a list :)
2021-12-28 10:05:24 +0100 <tomsmeding> that is, any function that has the type 'a -> [b]' for some a and some b
2021-12-28 10:05:28 +0100 <otherwise> anything that produces a list, that makes sense.
2021-12-28 10:05:54 +0100 <tomsmeding> > concatMap (\n -> map (n +) [1, 2, 3]) [4, 5, 6]
2021-12-28 10:05:56 +0100 <lambdabot> [5,6,7,6,7,8,7,8,9]
2021-12-28 10:06:07 +0100 <otherwise> I was trying to do something like concatMap [map (+3) [1..9]]
2021-12-28 10:06:17 +0100 <tomsmeding> > concatMap (\_ -> [1,2,3]) [4,5,6]
2021-12-28 10:06:18 +0100 <lambdabot> [1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3]
2021-12-28 10:06:23 +0100 <otherwise> to force a nested list
2021-12-28 10:06:29 +0100 <xerox> > concatMap (\x -> [x-1,x,x+1]) [2,5,8]
2021-12-28 10:06:30 +0100 <lambdabot> [1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9]
2021-12-28 10:06:44 +0100 <tomsmeding> otherwise: that applies concatMap to one argument, right? concatMap takes two arguments
2021-12-28 10:07:21 +0100 <tomsmeding> otherwise: I strongly suggest reading
2021-12-28 10:07:28 +0100 <tomsmeding> 'concatMap f l' as 'concat (map f l)'
2021-12-28 10:07:36 +0100 <tomsmeding> (it's exactly equivalent)
2021-12-28 10:07:59 +0100 <tomsmeding> @src concatMap
2021-12-28 10:07:59 +0100 <lambdabot> concatMap f = foldr ((++) . f) []
2021-12-28 10:08:02 +0100 <tomsmeding> lol
2021-12-28 10:08:17 +0100 <tomsmeding> same thing though if you think long and hard
2021-12-28 10:09:43 +0100 <otherwise> okay that is helpful
2021-12-28 10:11:39 +0100acidjnk(~acidjnk@p200300d0c7271e489141218671316649.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2021-12-28 10:14:07 +0100Akiva(~Akiva@user/Akiva) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2021-12-28 10:14:36 +0100Gurkenglas(~Gurkengla@dslb-002-203-144-204.002.203.pools.vodafone-ip.de)
2021-12-28 10:15:00 +0100DNH(~DNH@2a02:8108:1100:16d8:4441:5555:5586:d167)
2021-12-28 10:16:58 +0100geekosaur(~geekosaur@xmonad/geekosaur) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-12-28 10:17:41 +0100geekosaur(~geekosaur@xmonad/geekosaur)
2021-12-28 10:19:06 +0100Tuplanolla(~Tuplanoll@91-159-68-119.elisa-laajakaista.fi)
2021-12-28 10:19:37 +0100mvk(~mvk@2607:fea8:5cdd:f000::917a) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-12-28 10:21:15 +0100deadmarshal(~deadmarsh@95.38.112.219)
2021-12-28 10:22:14 +0100falafel(~falafel@2603-8000-d800-688c-6db4-c125-f693-41cb.res6.spectrum.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-12-28 10:22:26 +0100falafel(~falafel@2603-8000-d800-688c-6db4-c125-f693-41cb.res6.spectrum.com)
2021-12-28 10:25:20 +0100coot(~coot@89-64-85-93.dynamic.chello.pl)
2021-12-28 10:25:50 +0100briandaed(~root@185.234.208.208.r.toneticgroup.pl)
2021-12-28 10:28:54 +0100DNH(~DNH@2a02:8108:1100:16d8:4441:5555:5586:d167) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2021-12-28 10:32:44 +0100_ht(~quassel@82-169-194-8.biz.kpn.net)
2021-12-28 10:37:16 +0100gehmehgeh(~user@user/gehmehgeh)
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2021-12-28 11:28:36 +0100 <otherwise> in prelude, we can define functions, such as "addThree = (+) 3", is there a way to then :browse and only show user defined functions during the active prelude session?
2021-12-28 11:29:05 +0100vysn(~vysn@user/vysn)
2021-12-28 11:29:34 +0100 <otherwise> MatLab has this feature, where all user defined functions are in a sidebar window called "workspace." I'm sure Haskell has this, but I just do not know how to call it up for view...
2021-12-28 11:31:07 +0100 <otherwise> Found it!
2021-12-28 11:31:12 +0100 <otherwise> :show bindings
2021-12-28 11:31:14 +0100 <otherwise> :)
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2021-12-28 11:58:56 +0100 <tomsmeding> otherwise: "in prelude" -- that's ghci; Prelude is the name of the module that is in scope by default. The text to the left of the > in the ghci prompt is the list of modules that is in scope
2021-12-28 12:02:17 +0100Morrow(~quassel@bzq-110-168-31-106.red.bezeqint.net)
2021-12-28 12:03:58 +0100pretty_dumm_guy(trottel@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/prettydummguy/x-88029655)
2021-12-28 12:04:56 +0100 <otherwise> is it possible to bump out of the prelude module, but still be in ghci?
2021-12-28 12:05:21 +0100 <otherwise> in other words, have zero modules in scope.
2021-12-28 12:07:30 +0100 <xerox> ghci -XNoImplicitPrelude
2021-12-28 12:07:51 +0100vglfr(~vglfr@46.96.129.172)
2021-12-28 12:09:31 +0100fizbin(~fizbin@c-73-33-197-160.hsd1.nj.comcast.net)
2021-12-28 12:12:00 +0100 <Nate[m]12> does anyone have experience with writing mathematical computing of a C++ program with haskell and whether it's better to do this way compared to C++ math libraries?
2021-12-28 12:12:56 +0100 <Rembane> Nate[m]12: Is performance important to you?
2021-12-28 12:13:49 +0100fizbin(~fizbin@c-73-33-197-160.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-12-28 12:14:07 +0100syrkis(~syrkis@82.192.167.70) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2021-12-28 12:14:10 +0100 <Nate[m]12> Rembane: yes of course
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2021-12-28 12:15:14 +0100 <Nate[m]12> Rembane: I'm also thinking about writing them all in rust instead of these tricks
2021-12-28 12:15:35 +0100acidjnk(~acidjnk@p200300d0c7271e489141218671316649.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2021-12-28 12:16:21 +0100 <maerwald[m]> I'd pick the language with the best ecosystem for the problem, not the best language. Unless you got a lot of time on your hands
2021-12-28 12:18:51 +0100 <Rembane> Nate[m]12: I'd do what maerwald[m] says. numpy is also surprisingly fast.
2021-12-28 12:19:11 +0100wroathe(~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
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2021-12-28 12:19:32 +0100 <otherwise> xerox: thanks! However, it's kinda empty... as expected... I can't even do addition. the only type that seems to give a response is :t 2
2021-12-28 12:19:44 +0100 <Nate[m]12> numpy is in python right?
2021-12-28 12:20:38 +0100 <Nate[m]12> but my use case is eigen.
2021-12-28 12:21:07 +0100lavaman(~lavaman@98.38.249.169)
2021-12-28 12:21:19 +0100 <otherwise> :q
2021-12-28 12:21:42 +0100 <Nate[m]12> s/in/for/
2021-12-28 12:22:57 +0100 <Rembane> Nate[m]12: What's an eigen?
2021-12-28 12:23:22 +0100 <Nate[m]12> eigen library for c++
2021-12-28 12:23:36 +0100 <Nate[m]12> it's a math library
2021-12-28 12:23:37 +0100vglfr(~vglfr@46.96.129.172) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-12-28 12:23:44 +0100 <Rembane> otherwise: Now you need to import things from Prelude, for instance: import Prelude (Num)
2021-12-28 12:24:10 +0100wroathe(~wroathe@user/wroathe) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-12-28 12:24:10 +0100 <Rembane> Nate[m]12: Then write it in C++, I don't think it's worth it to find an eigen replacement in Haskell.
2021-12-28 12:25:17 +0100neurocyte0132889(~neurocyte@IP-212232085135.dynamic.medianet-world.de)
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2021-12-28 12:26:01 +0100lavaman(~lavaman@98.38.249.169) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-12-28 12:27:34 +0100 <thomasjm[m]> https://hackage.haskell.org/package/eigen
2021-12-28 12:33:35 +0100eggplantade(~Eggplanta@108-201-191-115.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
2021-12-28 12:35:38 +0100rito_(~rito_gh@45.112.243.151)
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2021-12-28 12:38:34 +0100 <otherwise> Rembane: oh of course! Thanks! :)
2021-12-28 12:39:31 +0100 <otherwise> Certainly gives an appreciation of all the predefined libraries.
2021-12-28 12:41:54 +0100 <otherwise> somehow (:) is included... as well as numbers, and it seems to understand []
2021-12-28 12:42:34 +0100 <otherwise> so it's not completely empty (referencing: ghci -XNoImplicitPrelude )
2021-12-28 12:42:41 +0100 <xerox> otherwise: yeah :)
2021-12-28 12:44:01 +0100CiaoSen(~Jura@p200300c957347b002a3a4dfffe84dbd5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2021-12-28 12:49:20 +0100mmhat(~mmh@55d4c35d.access.ecotel.net)
2021-12-28 12:50:44 +0100DNH(~DNH@2a02:8108:1100:16d8:4441:5555:5586:d167)
2021-12-28 12:50:58 +0100vysn(~vysn@user/vysn) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-12-28 12:51:13 +0100 <xerox> otherwise: I found an use for today's concatMap example right now https://i.imgur.com/vENgIIq.png
2021-12-28 12:52:50 +0100 <otherwise> before I peer into that code, I must say your example for concatMap was awesome! really enlightening
2021-12-28 12:55:05 +0100vglfr(~vglfr@46.96.129.172)
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2021-12-28 13:00:21 +0100 <otherwise> looks great! I almost understand it :)
2021-12-28 13:00:40 +0100merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
2021-12-28 13:01:16 +0100 <otherwise> Holy smokes, you included my name in line 75! thanks!
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2021-12-28 13:43:19 +0100otherwise(~otherwise@2601:602:880:90f0:3c50:d90d:a6a6:9cd0) ()
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2021-12-28 14:24:16 +0100machinedgod(~machinedg@24.105.81.50)
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2021-12-28 14:31:25 +0100Pickchea(~private@user/pickchea)
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2021-12-28 14:36:20 +0100tromp(~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl)
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2021-12-28 14:46:18 +0100 <Pickchea> Hey, I heard (>>=) is called "bind". Is there a name for (>>)?
2021-12-28 14:46:37 +0100zaquest(~notzaques@5.130.79.72)
2021-12-28 14:49:00 +0100 <xerox> maybe you can read it "and then"
2021-12-28 14:50:25 +0100Digit(~user@user/digit)
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2021-12-28 15:10:28 +0100[itchyjunk](~itchyjunk@user/itchyjunk/x-7353470)
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2021-12-28 15:28:47 +0100 <Henson> does anybody use Haskell in commercial applications who'd be interested in talking to me about it? I'd be interested in knowing somebody's experience in hiring Haskell developers, and the pros and cons from a manager's point of view over a more mainstream language like C++
2021-12-28 15:28:48 +0100inkbottle[m](~inkbottle@2001:470:69fc:105::2ff5)
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2021-12-28 15:54:12 +0100ksqsf(~user@134.209.106.31)
2021-12-28 15:54:59 +0100 <lechner> Hi, has anyone tried to generate a Haskell type from a JSON schema? Is there an example anywhere?
2021-12-28 16:01:03 +0100waleee(~waleee@2001:9b0:21d:fc00:398f:b003:b90d:acf4)
2021-12-28 16:05:17 +0100merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-12-28 16:07:29 +0100 <geekosaur> https://hackage.haskell.org/package/aeson-schema claims to be able to generate types form a schema
2021-12-28 16:07:39 +0100 <geekosaur> *from
2021-12-28 16:08:36 +0100Sgeo(~Sgeo@user/sgeo)
2021-12-28 16:08:53 +0100 <lechner> yeah, are there schemas other than JSON i should look at?
2021-12-28 16:09:30 +0100 <geekosaur> that I couldn't tell you
2021-12-28 16:09:42 +0100 <geekosaur> possibly YAML. I dislike it but it's widely used
2021-12-28 16:11:47 +0100kaph_(~kaph@net-2-38-107-19.cust.vodafonedsl.it)
2021-12-28 16:11:52 +0100 <mjrosenb> how on earth did it get to be widely used? I have literally never seen anyone who actually likes it.
2021-12-28 16:12:31 +0100kaph(~kaph@net-2-38-107-19.cust.vodafonedsl.it) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-12-28 16:15:42 +0100 <lechner> i meant for the automatic generation of types
2021-12-28 16:16:23 +0100CiaoSen(~Jura@p5dcc17d2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2021-12-28 16:17:07 +0100 <lechner> or perhasp someone can help me figure out how to use this? https://hackage.haskell.org/package/aeson-schema-0.4.1.2/docs/Data-Aeson-Schema-CodeGen.html
2021-12-28 16:17:17 +0100spaceseller(~spacesell@31.147.205.13)
2021-12-28 16:17:28 +0100 <Square> lechner, protobuf, thrift, typedefs (seems half finished). Then there is hschema, schemas and mu-schema. If its just the "schema-first" thing you're after
2021-12-28 16:17:29 +0100Pickchea(~private@user/pickchea) (Quit: Leaving)
2021-12-28 16:17:49 +0100 <lechner> yeah
2021-12-28 16:18:03 +0100 <geekosaur> there are also tools that convert yaml, etc. schema into json schemas, several designed for use with aeson-schema
2021-12-28 16:18:33 +0100 <lechner> actually, the other way around my work too, but then i'm perhaps married to haskell
2021-12-28 16:18:44 +0100 <lechner> might
2021-12-28 16:18:58 +0100ksqsf(~user@134.209.106.31) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-12-28 16:19:06 +0100 <lechner> and being married to haskell isn't all terrible
2021-12-28 16:20:29 +0100ksqsf(~user@134.209.106.31)
2021-12-28 16:20:51 +0100 <geekosaur> sadly, neither the examples nor the tests are very enlightening about how to generate types
2021-12-28 16:20:52 +0100spaceseller(~spacesell@31.147.205.13) (Client Quit)
2021-12-28 16:21:12 +0100 <lechner> maybe protobuf is the way to go
2021-12-28 16:21:34 +0100 <lechner> i have just used JSON for so long
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2021-12-28 17:33:48 +0100 <mjrosenb> what's the mapping of base- versions to ghc releases?
2021-12-28 17:34:59 +0100kaph_(~kaph@net-2-38-107-19.cust.vodafonedsl.it)
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2021-12-28 17:35:07 +0100dcoutts_(~duncan@71.78.6.51.dyn.plus.net)
2021-12-28 17:38:02 +0100wroathe(~wroathe@user/wroathe) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-12-28 17:38:09 +0100eggplantade(~Eggplanta@108-201-191-115.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
2021-12-28 17:38:48 +0100 <geekosaur> https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/wikis/commentary/libraries/version-history
2021-12-28 17:41:00 +0100 <mjrosenb> thanks!
2021-12-28 17:42:02 +0100obfusk(~quassel@a82-161-150-56.adsl.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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2021-12-28 17:44:53 +0100 <mjrosenb> uh-oh
2021-12-28 17:44:57 +0100jakalx(~jakalx@base.jakalx.net) (Error from remote client)
2021-12-28 17:45:03 +0100 <mjrosenb> is there a ghc-lib-parser for 8.6.5?
2021-12-28 17:46:00 +0100 <geekosaur> I'd be surprised if there were; 8.6.5 was replaced by 8.6.6 and then 8.6.7 within the space of a week iirc
2021-12-28 17:47:27 +0100 <geekosaur> wait, no, I'm thinking of 8.10.x
2021-12-28 17:50:31 +0100zincy(~zincy@2a00:23c8:970c:4801:bdb9:8c5f:3085:2807)
2021-12-28 17:51:48 +0100 <mjrosenb> I'm trying to get haskell-language-server built with 8.6.5, and a bunch of things depend on ghc-lib-parser (or at least the nix-expr I'm looking at says that it does)
2021-12-28 17:51:56 +0100 <geekosaur> mm, looks like there should be but it's difficult to tell from the cabal files
2021-12-28 17:53:11 +0100 <geekosaur> the oldest version of ghc-lib-parser claims tested with 8.6.1, so I assume some version between that and the 8.8s works with 8.6.5
2021-12-28 17:53:19 +0100solidfox(~snake@user/snake)
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2021-12-28 17:55:41 +0100snake(~snake@user/snake) ()
2021-12-28 17:57:59 +0100 <lechner> Square: Thanks for those pointers! I further stumbled across Avro, which also appears well-supported in Haskell and offers schema evolution, although it is much less popular than the others https://hackage.haskell.org/package/avro
2021-12-28 17:58:00 +0100dsrt^(~dsrt@207.5.54.6)
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2021-12-28 18:43:00 +0100hud(~hud@uwyo-129-72-161-67.uwyo.edu)
2021-12-28 18:44:57 +0100Guest55(~Guest55@95-25-134-74.broadband.corbina.ru)
2021-12-28 18:45:29 +0100 <hud> hi all, newb question here: why can't I run this on list a  `map ((+1).reverse) a`
2021-12-28 18:47:07 +0100 <geekosaur> what does it mean to reverse a number?
2021-12-28 18:47:39 +0100 <geekosaur> (`(+1)` indicates list items are numbers)
2021-12-28 18:48:00 +0100zebrag(~chris@user/zebrag)
2021-12-28 18:48:02 +0100justsomeguy(~justsomeg@user/justsomeguy) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-12-28 18:48:03 +0100 <geekosaur> :t map ((+1) . reverse)
2021-12-28 18:48:04 +0100 <lambdabot> Num [a] => [[a]] -> [[a]]
2021-12-28 18:48:16 +0100 <geekosaur> so somehow a list has to be a number
2021-12-28 18:48:18 +0100alfonsox(~quassel@103.92.42.161) (Quit: https://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.)
2021-12-28 18:49:16 +0100 <hud> yes so I wanted to just reverse a list and apply some function to it
2021-12-28 18:49:41 +0100 <geekosaur> then you reverse the list itself, not the individual items like map does
2021-12-28 18:49:51 +0100 <geekosaur> :t map (+1) . reverse
2021-12-28 18:49:52 +0100 <lambdabot> Num b => [b] -> [b]
2021-12-28 18:51:32 +0100 <hud> ahh, ok but with that I do get some error ```* Couldn't match expected type: a -> [b]
2021-12-28 18:51:33 +0100 <hud>                   with actual type: [a0]```
2021-12-28 18:51:46 +0100 <hud> oh sorry not sure how to write code blocks here
2021-12-28 18:52:12 +0100 <geekosaur> my guess is you did something like: map (+1) . reverse [1,2,3]
2021-12-28 18:52:17 +0100 <geekosaur> you have a precedence error
2021-12-28 18:52:33 +0100 <geekosaur> > (map (+1) . reverse) [1,2,3]
2021-12-28 18:52:35 +0100 <lambdabot> [4,3,2]
2021-12-28 18:52:48 +0100 <yushyin> hud: old school, we use paste services like https://paste.tomsmeding.com/
2021-12-28 18:53:00 +0100nhatanh02(~satori@123.24.172.30)
2021-12-28 18:53:21 +0100Guest55GreenHat
2021-12-28 18:53:26 +0100Midjak(~Midjak@may53-1-78-226-116-92.fbx.proxad.net)
2021-12-28 18:54:12 +0100 <geekosaur> the composition operator (.) operates on functions, and the precedence of function application is higher than anything else. so it reads (map (+1)) . (reverse [1,2,3]), which means (reverse [1,2,3]) has to be a function. but it's not a function, it's a list
2021-12-28 18:55:38 +0100 <hud> Ahh! that works cheers. You got that from the error message?
2021-12-28 18:56:17 +0100 <geekosaur> yes
2021-12-28 18:56:34 +0100 <geekosaur> the expected type was a function, the actual type was a list
2021-12-28 18:57:09 +0100obfusk(~quassel@a82-161-150-56.adsl.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2021-12-28 18:57:14 +0100 <geekosaur> and this is a common beginner error, it's come up 3-4 times in the past two days
2021-12-28 18:58:49 +0100obfusk(~quassel@a82-161-150-56.adsl.xs4all.nl)
2021-12-28 18:58:51 +0100 <hud> okay thanks, how do I work this paste code/error -> I copy paste the code block, submit and then?
2021-12-28 18:58:57 +0100nattiestnate(~nate@114.122.107.61)
2021-12-28 18:59:19 +0100 <yushyin> share the link
2021-12-28 18:59:28 +0100 <geekosaur> when you save it, the address bar in your browser will change, and you copy-paste that
2021-12-28 18:59:57 +0100 <geekosaur> note that you can put multiple files in a paste, so you can separate the code from the error and maintain line numbers between them
2021-12-28 19:00:16 +0100 <monochrom> Yeah put them in separate boxes but still on the same page.
2021-12-28 19:00:29 +0100 <monochrom> Other pastebins can't do that. Lame.
2021-12-28 19:01:15 +0100 <hud> ok let me test https://paste.tomsmeding.com/crEf1da4
2021-12-28 19:01:34 +0100 <monochrom> Yeah like that.
2021-12-28 19:01:43 +0100justsomeguy(~justsomeg@user/justsomeguy)
2021-12-28 19:01:43 +0100 <EvanR> hud, "whatever -> whatever" is error message jargon for function, "[whatever]" is error message jargon for list. Actually it goes beyond error messages. Now you know
2021-12-28 19:03:01 +0100 <geekosaur> they come up everywhere, in fact
2021-12-28 19:03:05 +0100 <geekosaur> :t (+1)
2021-12-28 19:03:06 +0100 <lambdabot> Num a => a -> a
2021-12-28 19:03:11 +0100 <hud> ok cheers this has been helpful - will most likely come back with more newb questions soon
2021-12-28 19:04:05 +0100 <EvanR> :t cake
2021-12-28 19:04:07 +0100 <lambdabot> error:
2021-12-28 19:04:07 +0100 <lambdabot> • Variable not in scope: cake
2021-12-28 19:04:07 +0100 <lambdabot> • Perhaps you meant one of these:
2021-12-28 19:04:26 +0100 <EvanR> hmm, no ready examples of a list sitting around anymore
2021-12-28 19:04:44 +0100 <monochrom> I don't think it's healthy to avoid jargon or even think in terms of describing things as "jargon" in the first place.
2021-12-28 19:04:45 +0100ksqsf(~user@134.209.106.31) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-12-28 19:05:05 +0100falafel(~falafel@cpe-76-168-195-162.socal.res.rr.com) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2021-12-28 19:05:14 +0100 <monochrom> A programming language is a jargon language by definition. A person who learns programming has precisely signed up for it.
2021-12-28 19:05:23 +0100 <geekosaur> well, once you've introduced the syntax of functions,
2021-12-28 19:05:27 +0100 <geekosaur> :t reverse
2021-12-28 19:05:28 +0100 <lambdabot> [a] -> [a]
2021-12-28 19:05:53 +0100 <geekosaur> which is surprisingly useful: there are only two functions with that signature, `id` applied to a list and `reverse`
2021-12-28 19:06:47 +0100 <EvanR> this is good jargon
2021-12-28 19:06:51 +0100 <geekosaur> since `a` is unconstrained and unavailable otherwise, you know the function can't "see" the elements, only rearrange them somehow. and there are very few ways to rearrange them that don't require more information
2021-12-28 19:06:57 +0100 <geekosaur> so it almost has to be `reverse`
2021-12-28 19:07:34 +0100 <EvanR> er, there are a lot of ways to "blindly" rearrange a list
2021-12-28 19:08:00 +0100 <monochrom> @type take 3
2021-12-28 19:08:01 +0100 <lambdabot> [a] -> [a]
2021-12-28 19:08:03 +0100 <geekosaur> but it's pure, so most of them aren't really doable
2021-12-28 19:08:03 +0100 <monochrom> :)
2021-12-28 19:08:28 +0100 <geekosaur> I was leaving out the ones that had more information (like `take 3`)
2021-12-28 19:08:30 +0100 <geekosaur> :t take
2021-12-28 19:08:31 +0100 <lambdabot> Int -> [a] -> [a]
2021-12-28 19:08:38 +0100 <geekosaur> has that extra Int there
2021-12-28 19:08:40 +0100 <EvanR> the 3 can be hard coded
2021-12-28 19:08:42 +0100xff0x(~xff0x@2001:1a81:5206:b200:83f6:7a30:b822:7720) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-12-28 19:08:49 +0100 <monochrom> Yeah I'm hardcoding that 3.
2021-12-28 19:09:14 +0100 <monochrom> But I'll stop now.
2021-12-28 19:09:18 +0100 <EvanR> :t double (x:more) = x : x : double more
2021-12-28 19:09:19 +0100 <lambdabot> error:
2021-12-28 19:09:19 +0100 <lambdabot> parse error on input ‘=’
2021-12-28 19:09:20 +0100 <lambdabot> Perhaps you need a 'let' in a 'do' block?
2021-12-28 19:09:25 +0100CiaoSen(~Jura@p200300c957347b002a3a4dfffe84dbd5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2021-12-28 19:09:30 +0100 <EvanR> :t let double (x:more) = x : x : double more in double
2021-12-28 19:09:31 +0100 <lambdabot> [a] -> [a]
2021-12-28 19:11:25 +0100thevishy(~Nishant@2405:201:f005:c007:1d22:93e8:b240:6332) (Quit: Leaving)
2021-12-28 19:12:15 +0100 <EvanR> :t let half (x:_:more) = x : half more in half
2021-12-28 19:12:16 +0100 <lambdabot> [a] -> [a]
2021-12-28 19:12:35 +0100xff0x(~xff0x@2001:1a81:5206:b200:83f6:7a30:b822:7720)
2021-12-28 19:13:05 +0100 <monochrom> I think it's a dead horse now :)
2021-12-28 19:13:57 +0100coot(~coot@89-64-85-93.dynamic.chello.pl) (Quit: coot)
2021-12-28 19:14:08 +0100coot(~coot@89-64-85-93.dynamic.chello.pl)
2021-12-28 19:15:40 +0100 <monochrom> I use f::a->[a] when I teach this. While it allows many possibilities, a single test case "f ()" nails it. If you tell me "f () = [(), ()]" then I know arbitrary "f x".
2021-12-28 19:16:41 +0100 <EvanR> so there's like a skeleton of possibilities
2021-12-28 19:17:05 +0100 <EvanR> a subset of things you can do if it weren't polymorphic
2021-12-28 19:17:54 +0100 <EvanR> and a = () reveals it
2021-12-28 19:18:03 +0100 <monochrom> [a]->[a] is richer, you have to test for various input lengths, and you have to watch out for permutations and duplications too. But you "just" have to test [], [0], [0,1], [0,1,2], ... , [0..]
2021-12-28 19:19:49 +0100 <EvanR> ah () doesn't reveal it in that case
2021-12-28 19:20:16 +0100 <monochrom> Yeah, consider "f [x,y] = [y, y, x]; f xs = xs"
2021-12-28 19:21:06 +0100epolanski(uid312403@id-312403.helmsley.irccloud.com) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2021-12-28 19:21:34 +0100 <monochrom> Sometimes I pose the opposite question on exams: Give two implementations that agree on these test cases but differ on other inputs.
2021-12-28 19:24:13 +0100 <monochrom> And then the Yoneda lemma generates a lot of good exam questions.
2021-12-28 19:25:44 +0100 <monochrom> E.g., f :: (Int -> a) -> [a], or generally replace [] by any functor.
2021-12-28 19:26:09 +0100 <monochrom> and replace Int by any concrete type.
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2021-12-28 19:44:25 +0100 <EvanR> Yoneda's lemma is the only theorem from category I've heard of. And it's only a lemma
2021-12-28 19:44:31 +0100 <EvanR> category theory
2021-12-28 19:45:29 +0100 <monochrom> Let me share with you how seriously I take the different wordings "theorem" "lemma" "proposition" "fact".
2021-12-28 19:46:07 +0100tzh(~tzh@c-24-21-73-154.hsd1.wa.comcast.net)
2021-12-28 19:46:19 +0100coolnickname(uid531864@user/coolnickname)
2021-12-28 19:46:30 +0100 <timCF> Hello! Is it possible to pass somehow type parameters (via TypeApplications or Proxy) into QuasiQuoter expression? I need it for the case where smart constructor inside QQ do require knowledge of phantom type parameter to know restrictions of values generated in compile-time. I need something like `[moneyAmt|0.01|] :: MoneyAmt 'Base 'Sell` or even better `[moneyAmt|0.01|] :: MoneyAmt dim act` for
2021-12-28 19:46:36 +0100 <timCF> polymorphic stuff. But it seems like QQ is not aware or type annotations I'm trying to feed into it.
2021-12-28 19:49:01 +0100 <monochrom> In PVS (http://pvs.csl.sri.com/), all of those words mean the same thing. You state a theorem by starting with "theorem" or "lemma" or "proposition" or "fact", it doesn't matter which.
2021-12-28 19:49:23 +0100 <monochrom> In fact, or "claim", "corollary", "sublemma", even "conjecture".
2021-12-28 19:49:32 +0100wroathe(~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
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2021-12-28 19:49:36 +0100 <monochrom> I was henceforth enlightened.
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2021-12-28 19:53:55 +0100 <EvanR> heh, fact vs claim
2021-12-28 19:54:04 +0100 <monochrom> heh
2021-12-28 19:54:10 +0100 <EvanR> is this Donald Trump's programming language of choice
2021-12-28 19:54:52 +0100 <monochrom> Does he like dependent types? :)
2021-12-28 19:55:03 +0100 <EvanR> that's cool that it was featured in The Martian
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2021-12-28 21:40:03 +0100 <c_wraith> timCF: https://hackage.haskell.org/package/template-haskell-2.18.0.0/docs/Language-Haskell-TH-Quote.html#…
2021-12-28 21:40:25 +0100 <c_wraith> timCF: quoteExp specified Q Exp
2021-12-28 21:40:50 +0100 <c_wraith> timCF: So no, you can't use inference across the quote mechanism.
2021-12-28 21:41:43 +0100 <c_wraith> timCF: you need typed template haskell to manage that.
2021-12-28 21:42:50 +0100 <c_wraith> timCF: I'd say your best options are either moving that information into the String somehow (fragile, but maybe good enough) or using a typed template haskell splice (it can work well, but it just went through a massive API change with GHC 9, making it hard to write portably)
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2021-12-28 21:53:43 +0100Las[m](~lasmatrix@2001:470:69fc:105::74e)
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2021-12-28 21:55:53 +0100lbseale(~ep1ctetus@user/ep1ctetus)
2021-12-28 21:56:23 +0100 <Las[m]> I've heard that Backpack isn't likely to be supported in GHC going forward, how true is this?
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2021-12-28 21:57:52 +0100xsperry(~xs@user/xsperry) ()
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2021-12-28 21:58:35 +0100 <geekosaur> this is probably not the best place to ask that question, but given that stack still shows no signs of supporting it and excluding ~half the ecosystem from it is a bad plan, and nobody seems to have stepped forward to support it in future ghcs, I'd suspect it's likely
2021-12-28 21:59:44 +0100 <EvanR> oof
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2021-12-28 22:02:15 +0100 <mjrosenb> backpack?
2021-12-28 22:02:25 +0100pavonia(~user@user/siracusa)
2021-12-28 22:02:41 +0100 <EvanR> kind of like a module system for haskell
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2021-12-28 22:04:12 +0100 <geekosaur> yeh, backpack was intended to be like SML functors (parameterized modules)
2021-12-28 22:04:42 +0100 <Las[m]> geekosaur: Can you elaborate on the "stepped up" part?
2021-12-28 22:04:46 +0100 <Las[m]> Is the original contributor not active anymore?
2021-12-28 22:05:00 +0100 <geekosaur> it was a PhD thesis, they've since moved on
2021-12-28 22:05:58 +0100 <geekosaur> iirc hvr stepped forward for a while but he's vanished as well
2021-12-28 22:06:01 +0100 <Las[m]> That is quite unfortunate.
2021-12-28 22:06:54 +0100 <Las[m]> Perhaps I should just use CPP for my simple use case.
2021-12-28 22:07:13 +0100 <sm> everyone says that, but it seems nobody cares about it that much
2021-12-28 22:07:15 +0100urdh(~urdh@user/urdh)
2021-12-28 22:07:19 +0100 <Las[m]> I just want to switch have "production" and "development" modes.
2021-12-28 22:07:21 +0100 <geekosaur> also I think what's implemented is only part of the full system, but again nobody seems to be interested in finishing it
2021-12-28 22:07:47 +0100 <Las[m]> I think it's likely that 99% of the people who think it is unfortunate are not comfortable enough with GHC to contribute.
2021-12-28 22:08:03 +0100 <geekosaur> not sure backpack is worth the effort for that; I'd just use cpp
2021-12-28 22:08:07 +0100wroathe(~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
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2021-12-28 22:08:07 +0100wroathe(~wroathe@user/wroathe)
2021-12-28 22:08:13 +0100 <Las[m]> AFAICT it's limited compared to SML functors, was this supposed to be fixed/improved upon?
2021-12-28 22:08:23 +0100 <Las[m]> It just seemed like a neat chance to use Backpack finally.
2021-12-28 22:08:26 +0100 <geekosaur> as I said, I think it's incomplete
2021-12-28 22:09:00 +0100 <sm> I think people who want it generally don't consider the maintenance, complexity, ecosystem costs
2021-12-28 22:09:16 +0100 <geekosaur> and, well, with stack not supporting it I think a largeish number of Haskell folks are excluded form it anyway
2021-12-28 22:10:04 +0100 <sm> those are what have discouraged expert devs from pushing it further, I suspect
2021-12-28 22:10:43 +0100 <EvanR> was backpack a ghc plugin, or more than that
2021-12-28 22:10:51 +0100 <geekosaur> more than that
2021-12-28 22:10:52 +0100 <Las[m]> No it's integrated into GHC.
2021-12-28 22:11:07 +0100 <Las[m]> Thanks for the information, it's really neat though.
2021-12-28 22:11:13 +0100 <EvanR> can it be a plugin
2021-12-28 22:11:17 +0100 <Las[m]> Much more "FP" than CPP and Cabal flags.
2021-12-28 22:11:25 +0100 <geekosaur> too deeply woven in, I'm pretty sure
2021-12-28 22:11:44 +0100 <geekosaur> even with the somewhat expanded plugin system in ghc9+
2021-12-28 22:12:41 +0100 <geekosaur> suppose someone can try to get in touch with ezyang and find out his opinion on continued maintenance and maybe what's needed to complete it
2021-12-28 22:13:05 +0100 <geekosaur> and whether there's any chance of supporting it via plugins (and what kind of changes the plugin system might need to pull that off)
2021-12-28 22:13:18 +0100 <timCF> c_wraith: thanks for reply!
2021-12-28 22:13:36 +0100 <mjrosenb> ooh, I do like the sound of SML-style functors.
2021-12-28 22:13:43 +0100Codaraxis(~Codaraxis@user/codaraxis)
2021-12-28 22:13:47 +0100 <mjrosenb> I've always felt they were missing from haskell.
2021-12-28 22:14:40 +0100yauhsien(~yauhsien@118-167-42-25.dynamic-ip.hinet.net)
2021-12-28 22:15:05 +0100 <EvanR> you can parameterize records, but records can't hold instances or local classes. And you can't "open" a record
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2021-12-28 22:17:25 +0100 <geekosaur> not sure backpack even notionally supported "open" though
2021-12-28 22:18:09 +0100 <geekosaur> that might have been part of why backpack never caught on, in fact
2021-12-28 22:18:29 +0100TonyStone(~TonyStone@2603-7080-8607-c36a-9cdb-69bc-753b-1e50.res6.spectrum.com)
2021-12-28 22:19:39 +0100 <Las[m]> https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/wikis/Backpack-refactoring !
2021-12-28 22:19:51 +0100yauhsien(~yauhsien@118-167-42-25.dynamic-ip.hinet.net) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-12-28 22:31:25 +0100jespada(~jespada@87.74.33.157) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-12-28 22:32:25 +0100 <ProfSimm> I'm wondering has anyone ever thought if we have no mutable state and side-effects, is it possible to tweak Haskell so it can run in reverse, i.e. feed output to a function, it gives you the inputs?
2021-12-28 22:33:10 +0100 <ProfSimm> Obviously this won't work with many existing functions, but you can tweak the output to produce part of the input necessary to compute in reverse, 5 + 6 => 11, 6 11 - 6 => 5, 6
2021-12-28 22:33:25 +0100jespada(~jespada@87.74.33.157)
2021-12-28 22:34:16 +0100 <EvanR> you're getting reversibility which most functions aren't, because they aren't injective
2021-12-28 22:34:21 +0100 <EvanR> forgetting*
2021-12-28 22:34:30 +0100 <Las[m]> ProfSimm: In a dependently typed language you could probably define a type for a reversible function.
2021-12-28 22:34:30 +0100 <geekosaur> yeh
2021-12-28 22:35:06 +0100 <EvanR> and many functions should be reversible but aren't thanks to floating point :'(
2021-12-28 22:35:29 +0100 <geekosaur> and worth noting is that in many cases you'd end up needing state to make a function injective
2021-12-28 22:35:42 +0100 <geekosaur> so the premise may be wrong
2021-12-28 22:37:20 +0100 <Las[m]> `reversible a b = DPair (a -> b) $ \f => DPair (b -> a) $ \g => ((x : a) -> g (f x) === x)` or something in Idris 2
2021-12-28 22:37:31 +0100 <EvanR> any function can be made reversible by promoting the domain and range from A -> B to (A,B) -> (B,A) and tracking what argument you used
2021-12-28 22:39:47 +0100 <EvanR> I'm wrong!
2021-12-28 22:40:26 +0100 <geekosaur> I was wondering if running them in Writer might help
2021-12-28 22:40:52 +0100 <ProfSimm> A, B -> C to A, B -> B, C
2021-12-28 22:41:23 +0100 <EvanR> can't parse
2021-12-28 22:41:27 +0100 <geekosaur> of course they'd have to tell appropriately
2021-12-28 22:42:34 +0100 <EvanR> any function can be made reversible by promoting the codomain to a pair that saves what argument you used, and so if the computations aren't naturally reversible, you get a lot of space usage for remembering
2021-12-28 22:45:44 +0100 <EvanR> xor can be made reversible by adding 1 more bit to the output, but and and or can't
2021-12-28 22:48:16 +0100 <dsal> > 727477226272 `mod` 13
2021-12-28 22:48:17 +0100 <lambdabot> 4
2021-12-28 22:51:03 +0100 <mjrosenb> you could also probably get away with a weaker form of reversibility, which is just a function that returns *an* input that results in the desired output.
2021-12-28 22:52:17 +0100mvk(~mvk@2607:fea8:5cdd:f000::917a) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-12-28 22:52:35 +0100 <mjrosenb> ok, so, awkward gaps in my knowledge time: what happened to `cabal sandbox` in v2?
2021-12-28 22:53:13 +0100 <sirlensalot> nix-style builds are now the default
2021-12-28 22:53:31 +0100 <sclv> sandbox is gone entirely
2021-12-28 22:53:56 +0100 <sclv> it stuck around for a bit, but in the last major release it got removed entirely to clean up the codebase
2021-12-28 22:57:43 +0100 <mjrosenb> I'm not sure how nix-style builds have replced a sandbox.
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2021-12-28 22:59:37 +0100 <monochrom> Maybe this helps: Imagine sandboxes but if it is safe to share a built dependency then it's shared so you save some build time.
2021-12-28 23:00:29 +0100jtomas(~jtomas@153.red-83-53-252.dynamicip.rima-tde.net)
2021-12-28 23:01:11 +0100 <monochrom> So when using v2 you can just treat your "project" directory as an automatic sandbox.
2021-12-28 23:03:03 +0100 <sm> like a sandbox that uses a layered filesystem
2021-12-28 23:03:31 +0100merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
2021-12-28 23:03:47 +0100 <geekosaur> yeh, v2 is automatic sandboxing, sandboxes were an attempt to keep v1 builds under control without it
2021-12-28 23:04:31 +0100 <geekosaur> the only place where I've had problems is xmonad which kinda expects to be globally (or at least user) available, but we have solutions there as well
2021-12-28 23:04:55 +0100 <geekosaur> and I'm noodling how to extend the automatic stack support in 0.17.0 to cabal v2
2021-12-28 23:09:23 +0100 <monochrom> How to gain reversibility depends on why you want reversibility.
2021-12-28 23:10:09 +0100 <monochrom> "because I want quantum computing" is very different from "because I want an educational algorithm visualizer that has a bidirectional slider".
2021-12-28 23:11:11 +0100acidjnk(~acidjnk@p200300d0c7271e865819ff1869a0a668.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2021-12-28 23:13:34 +0100superstar64(~superstar@2600:1700:ed80:50a0:d250:99ff:fe2c:53c4)
2021-12-28 23:13:35 +0100 <monochrom> There is a third one. "because I want to reduce waste heat"
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2021-12-28 23:25:57 +0100 <mjrosenb> monochrom: makes sense.
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2021-12-28 23:43:29 +0100 <otherwise> LYAH introduces @ without any explanation :(. map (\l@(x:xs) -> (x,length l)) [[1,1,1,1,1],[2,2],[4],[5],[000]]
2021-12-28 23:44:11 +0100 <geekosaur> "as-pattern"
2021-12-28 23:44:42 +0100 <geekosaur> the value of the expression matched by pattern on the right is bound by the identifier on the left
2021-12-28 23:45:10 +0100 <geekosaur> so in this case you get the whole list as l, in addition to its head and tail as x and xs
2021-12-28 23:46:04 +0100 <otherwise> cool! thanks, that is clear
2021-12-28 23:46:36 +0100 <hpc> you can pop it into ghci as well
2021-12-28 23:46:49 +0100 <hpc> and experiment with it
2021-12-28 23:47:02 +0100 <hpc> (probably a good idea on all the other code samples too)
2021-12-28 23:50:26 +0100 <otherwise> kind of strange to me why :t @, :doc @ and :def @ all show nothing
2021-12-28 23:51:09 +0100 <EvanR> if you want the type of an operator you have to put ( )
2021-12-28 23:51:17 +0100 <geekosaur> becuase it has no type
2021-12-28 23:51:17 +0100 <EvanR> :t (!!)
2021-12-28 23:51:18 +0100 <lambdabot> [a] -> Int -> a
2021-12-28 23:51:22 +0100 <otherwise> hpc: that is what I love so much about haskell, is ghc makes experimentation so accessible. :)
2021-12-28 23:51:42 +0100 <geekosaur> and is built into the compiler, as opposed to bei8ng defined somewhere that has documentation for :doc
2021-12-28 23:51:45 +0100 <mjrosenb> well, ghci
2021-12-28 23:52:05 +0100 <otherwise> mjrosenb yes, forgot the i
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2021-12-28 23:53:47 +0100 <hpc> ghc too, with holes
2021-12-28 23:54:17 +0100 <monochrom> @ is a reserved word, not an identifier. :t :doc etc do not known reserved words. No one has any expectation over ":type if".
2021-12-28 23:55:14 +0100 <hpc> i was going to suggest hoogle, but it seems to not give results for syntax anymore :(
2021-12-28 23:55:31 +0100 <hpc> you used to be able to hoogle things like "data" or "type" and get a paragraph or two
2021-12-28 23:57:04 +0100justsomeguy(~justsomeg@user/justsomeguy)
2021-12-28 23:57:48 +0100 <EvanR> have to say I had a hard time reading LYAH back in the day
2021-12-28 23:58:05 +0100 <EvanR> like, the information to nonsense ratio was low
2021-12-28 23:58:36 +0100 <EvanR> you've been reading it for how many weeks and you just got to @ ?
2021-12-28 23:58:36 +0100 <dsal> I find it a bit weird. I'm still trying to decide how much work I want to put into zippers. heh
2021-12-28 23:58:45 +0100 <dsal> (the chapter on zippers came up in a search)
2021-12-28 23:59:00 +0100 <mjrosenb> so far, my experience with haskell-language-server has proved it to be very good at showing me reserved keywords, and not so much at anything else.
2021-12-28 23:59:41 +0100 <mjrosenb> zippers are nice to understand, and will be useful every once in a while. If it is useful, use it, if it isn't don't shoehorn it into a good solution.
2021-12-28 23:59:47 +0100 <monochrom> If you just want to learn practical zippers, just having seen the list example and a binary tree example, you can already extrapolate to all practice use cases.