IRCBrowse

2021/10/26

2021-10-26 00:00:40 +0200euandreh(~euandreh@2804:14c:33:9fe5:299b:88e7:728b:a92) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-10-26 00:00:40 +0200MQ-17J(~MQ-17J@d192-24-122-179.try.wideopenwest.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-10-26 00:01:13 +0200MQ-17J(~MQ-17J@8.21.10.17)
2021-10-26 00:02:04 +0200dlss^(~dlss@wsip-68-227-92-38.mc.at.cox.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-10-26 00:02:44 +0200kilolympus(~kilolympu@185.65.135.177) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-10-26 00:04:21 +0200tafama(~tafa@2a04:52c0:101:85c::1)
2021-10-26 00:05:04 +0200ubert(~Thunderbi@178.115.41.93.wireless.dyn.drei.com) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-10-26 00:05:13 +0200kilolympus(~kilolympu@185.65.135.177)
2021-10-26 00:05:18 +0200tafa(~tafa@5.2.76.31) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-10-26 00:06:41 +0200max22-(~maxime@2a01cb088335980089ed6f978d54394c.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Quit: Leaving)
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2021-10-26 00:14:23 +0200jgeerds(~jgeerds@55d40de2.access.ecotel.net) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-10-26 00:17:40 +0200acidjnk_new(~acidjnk@p200300d0c7161c688c4a7961f19179a9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
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2021-10-26 00:21:24 +0200acidjnk(~acidjnk@p200300d0c7161c68f8633ce8ef67c5a5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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2021-10-26 00:25:32 +0200Ranhir(~Ranhir@157.97.53.139) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-10-26 00:25:37 +0200acidjnk_new3(~acidjnk@p200300d0c7161c6868001932eceb2d10.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2021-10-26 00:27:17 +0200Hayek(~xxx@2603-8000-b401-6099-b41b-43a8-70e4-3938.res6.spectrum.com) (Quit: WeeChat 3.3)
2021-10-26 00:28:00 +0200euandreh(~euandreh@2804:14c:33:9fe5:33f9:2578:2f6:368f)
2021-10-26 00:28:45 +0200jushur(~human@user/jushur) (Quit: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯)
2021-10-26 00:29:19 +0200acidjnk_new(~acidjnk@p200300d0c7161c688c4a7961f19179a9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-10-26 00:31:33 +0200jess(~jess@libera/staff/jess) ()
2021-10-26 00:31:33 +0200ubert(~Thunderbi@178.115.41.93.wireless.dyn.drei.com)
2021-10-26 00:34:11 +0200gehmehgeh(~user@user/gehmehgeh) (Quit: Leaving)
2021-10-26 00:36:52 +0200Ranhir(~Ranhir@157.97.53.139)
2021-10-26 00:44:08 +0200__monty__(~toonn@user/toonn) (Quit: leaving)
2021-10-26 00:44:09 +0200eggplantade(~Eggplanta@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:a193:fe09:637c:a86c)
2021-10-26 00:45:35 +0200whatif(~xxx@47.245.54.240) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-10-26 00:51:31 +0200burnsidesLlama(~burnsides@dhcp168-053.wadham.ox.ac.uk)
2021-10-26 00:53:54 +0200sprout_(~quassel@86-82-44-193.fixed.kpn.net) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-10-26 00:55:42 +0200whatif(~xxx@47.245.54.240)
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2021-10-26 01:04:11 +0200azimut(~azimut@gateway/tor-sasl/azimut) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-10-26 01:04:54 +0200wroathe(~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
2021-10-26 01:04:54 +0200wroathe(~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) (Changing host)
2021-10-26 01:04:54 +0200wroathe(~wroathe@user/wroathe)
2021-10-26 01:06:00 +0200sprout(~quassel@2a02:a467:ccd6:1:e876:dcb:76b1:818b) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-10-26 01:06:11 +0200azimut(~azimut@gateway/tor-sasl/azimut)
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2021-10-26 01:06:40 +0200euandreh(~euandreh@2804:14c:33:9fe5:33f9:2578:2f6:368f) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-10-26 01:06:42 +0200whatif(~xxx@47.245.54.240)
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2021-10-26 01:09:14 +0200Psybur(~Psybur@mobile-166-170-29-12.mycingular.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-10-26 01:12:44 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
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2021-10-26 01:26:54 +0200Tuplanolla(~Tuplanoll@91-159-69-50.elisa-laajakaista.fi) (Quit: Leaving.)
2021-10-26 01:28:44 +0200whatif(~xxx@47.245.54.240)
2021-10-26 01:29:18 +0200euandreh(~euandreh@2804:14c:33:9fe5:b9d3:55ff:4c84:c8cf)
2021-10-26 01:29:37 +0200whatif(~xxx@47.245.54.240) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2021-10-26 01:47:11 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-10-26 01:49:54 +0200kilolympus(~kilolympu@185.65.135.177) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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2021-10-26 01:50:45 +0200whatif(~xxx@47.245.54.240)
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2021-10-26 01:55:40 +0200acidjnk_new3(~acidjnk@p200300d0c7161c6868001932eceb2d10.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-10-26 01:59:05 +0200sprout(~quassel@2a02:a467:ccd6:1:e876:dcb:76b1:818b) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-10-26 02:01:45 +0200whatif(~xxx@47.245.54.240)
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2021-10-26 02:04:16 +0200haritz(~hrtz@user/haritz) (Quit: ZNC 1.7.2+deb3 - https://znc.in)
2021-10-26 02:04:21 +0200random-jellyfish(~random-je@user/random-jellyfish)
2021-10-26 02:05:27 +0200xff0x(~xff0x@2001:1a81:538f:ce00:2234:349c:dfdf:94b7) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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2021-10-26 02:08:59 +0200Feuermagier(~Feuermagi@user/feuermagier) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2021-10-26 02:10:43 +0200Feuermagier(~Feuermagi@user/feuermagier)
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2021-10-26 02:11:31 +0200Feuermagier(~Feuermagi@user/feuermagier)
2021-10-26 02:12:45 +0200whatif(~xxx@47.245.54.240)
2021-10-26 02:13:38 +0200whatif(~xxx@47.245.54.240) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-10-26 02:14:13 +0200bitmapper(uid464869@id-464869.lymington.irccloud.com) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2021-10-26 02:17:03 +0200Lord_of_Life_(~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915)
2021-10-26 02:17:41 +0200Lord_of_Life(~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2021-10-26 02:18:22 +0200Lord_of_Life_Lord_of_Life
2021-10-26 02:18:52 +0200MQ-17J(~MQ-17J@d192-24-122-179.try.wideopenwest.com)
2021-10-26 02:19:04 +0200Firedancer(sid336191@hampstead.irccloud.com) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-10-26 02:19:39 +0200 <mmhat> -quit
2021-10-26 02:19:43 +0200mmhat(~mmh@55d48723.access.ecotel.net) (Quit: WeeChat 3.3)
2021-10-26 02:21:05 +0200 <Axman6> is negative quit join?
2021-10-26 02:21:59 +0200Firedancer(sid336191@id-336191.hampstead.irccloud.com)
2021-10-26 02:23:03 +0200unit73e(~emanuel@2001:818:e8dd:7c00:32b5:c2ff:fe6b:5291) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-10-26 02:23:46 +0200whatif(~xxx@47.245.54.240)
2021-10-26 02:23:46 +0200MQ-17J(~MQ-17J@d192-24-122-179.try.wideopenwest.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-10-26 02:24:08 +0200MQ-17J(~MQ-17J@d192-24-122-179.try.wideopenwest.com)
2021-10-26 02:24:38 +0200whatif(~xxx@47.245.54.240) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-10-26 02:24:45 +0200euandreh(~euandreh@2804:14c:33:9fe5:b9d3:55ff:4c84:c8cf) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-10-26 02:25:46 +0200ChaiTRex(~ChaiTRex@user/chaitrex) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-10-26 02:26:30 +0200ChaiTRex(~ChaiTRex@user/chaitrex)
2021-10-26 02:29:27 +0200econo(uid147250@user/econo) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2021-10-26 02:30:34 +0200bontaq(~user@ool-45779fe5.dyn.optonline.net)
2021-10-26 02:32:53 +0200 <ski> i'd've expected negative part to be that
2021-10-26 02:33:07 +0200kilolympus(~kilolympu@185.65.135.177)
2021-10-26 02:34:46 +0200whatif(~xxx@47.245.54.240)
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2021-10-26 02:50:43 +0200myShoggoth(~myShoggot@97-120-85-195.ptld.qwest.net) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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2021-10-26 03:01:12 +0200pretty_dumm_guy(trottel@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/prettydummguy/x-88029655) (Quit: WeeChat 3.3)
2021-10-26 03:07:46 +0200whatif(~xxx@47.245.54.240)
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2021-10-26 03:14:58 +0200img(~img@user/img) (Quit: ZNC 1.8.2 - https://znc.in)
2021-10-26 03:15:06 +0200Deide_(~Deide@217.155.19.23)
2021-10-26 03:16:25 +0200lavaman(~lavaman@98.38.249.169)
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2021-10-26 03:17:16 +0200Deide_(~Deide@217.155.19.23) (Changing host)
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2021-10-26 03:17:31 +0200Deide_Deidde
2021-10-26 03:18:46 +0200whatif(~xxx@47.245.54.240)
2021-10-26 03:18:49 +0200albet70(~xxx@2400:8902::f03c:92ff:fe60:98d8)
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2021-10-26 03:20:52 +0200juand(~a@p200300ef973db1624086f0a6a24fc4dd.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Quit: WeeChat 3.0.1)
2021-10-26 03:20:54 +0200lavaman(~lavaman@98.38.249.169) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-10-26 03:24:38 +0200[itchyjunk](~itchyjunk@user/itchyjunk/x-7353470)
2021-10-26 03:28:54 +0200Deidde(~Deide@user/deide) (Quit: Seeee yaaaa)
2021-10-26 03:29:46 +0200whatif(~xxx@47.245.54.240)
2021-10-26 03:30:40 +0200whatif(~xxx@47.245.54.240) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-10-26 03:31:24 +0200img(~img@user/img)
2021-10-26 03:40:47 +0200whatif(~xxx@47.245.54.240)
2021-10-26 03:41:40 +0200whatif(~xxx@47.245.54.240) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-10-26 03:41:51 +0200 <hololeap> maerwald: wait, setting it globally actually seems like a good idea...
2021-10-26 03:42:54 +0200 <hololeap> export GHCRTS="-N4"
2021-10-26 03:42:59 +0200tommd(~tommd@75-164-130-101.ptld.qwest.net) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-10-26 03:43:15 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
2021-10-26 03:44:47 +0200 <hololeap> what's wrong with that?
2021-10-26 03:46:30 +0200aplainzetakind(~johndoe@captainludd.powered.by.lunarbnc.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-10-26 03:46:54 +0200lavaman(~lavaman@98.38.249.169)
2021-10-26 03:47:00 +0200aplainzetakind(~johndoe@captainludd.powered.by.lunarbnc.net)
2021-10-26 03:47:39 +0200xff0x(~xff0x@2001:1a81:538f:ce00:64fa:cdd8:de80:1300) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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2021-10-26 03:51:14 +0200MQ-17J(~MQ-17J@d192-24-122-179.try.wideopenwest.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-10-26 03:51:48 +0200whatif(~xxx@47.245.54.240)
2021-10-26 03:52:12 +0200ArtVandelayer(~ArtVandel@ip174-68-147-20.lv.lv.cox.net) (Quit: Leaving)
2021-10-26 03:52:34 +0200MQ-17J(~MQ-17J@d192-24-122-179.try.wideopenwest.com)
2021-10-26 03:52:34 +0200MQ-17J(~MQ-17J@d192-24-122-179.try.wideopenwest.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-10-26 03:52:41 +0200whatif(~xxx@47.245.54.240) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-10-26 03:53:13 +0200MQ-17J(~MQ-17J@d192-24-122-179.try.wideopenwest.com)
2021-10-26 03:58:07 +0200deni(~deni@user/deni) (Quit: bye...)
2021-10-26 03:58:18 +0200deni_(~deni@user/deni)
2021-10-26 04:02:47 +0200whatif(~xxx@47.245.54.240)
2021-10-26 04:03:41 +0200whatif(~xxx@47.245.54.240) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-10-26 04:03:46 +0200alx741(~alx741@181.196.69.72) (Quit: alx741)
2021-10-26 04:09:51 +0200mvk(~mvk@2607:fea8:5cc1:300::4a62) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2021-10-26 04:13:49 +0200whatif(~xxx@47.245.54.240)
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2021-10-26 04:17:58 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-10-26 04:20:17 +0200mvk(~mvk@2607:fea8:5cc1:300::d3fb)
2021-10-26 04:24:49 +0200whatif(~xxx@47.245.54.240)
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2021-10-26 04:25:43 +0200 <Cajun> if you dont compile with -threaded and -rtsopts i believe that would throw an error, and using the threaded GC is bound to lead to lower performance in single-threaded programs
2021-10-26 04:26:25 +0200 <Cajun> but exporting something for quick access to the many options for debugging/profiling doesnt seem like a terrible idea
2021-10-26 04:28:12 +0200euandreh(~euandreh@2804:14c:33:9fe5:fa59:2f99:edd:cd7b)
2021-10-26 04:30:42 +0200jespada(~jespada@181.28.253.200) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2021-10-26 04:35:49 +0200whatif(~xxx@47.245.54.240)
2021-10-26 04:36:08 +0200td_(~td@94.134.91.68) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2021-10-26 04:36:42 +0200whatif(~xxx@47.245.54.240) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-10-26 04:38:18 +0200td_(~td@94.134.91.24)
2021-10-26 04:38:54 +0200Player001(~Player001@user/player001) (Quit: Quitting)
2021-10-26 04:39:00 +0200hyiltiz(~quassel@31.220.5.250) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-10-26 04:41:26 +0200hyiltiz(~quassel@31.220.5.250)
2021-10-26 04:41:47 +0200FinnElija(~finn_elij@user/finn-elija/x-0085643) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-10-26 04:42:11 +0200jkaye(~jkaye@2601:281:8300:7530:8985:f1bc:4422:2d97)
2021-10-26 04:43:11 +0200FinnElija(~finn_elij@user/finn-elija/x-0085643)
2021-10-26 04:43:34 +0200 <Boarders> I am trying to use the tool stan but am unsure of how to add a rule that will exclude a particular inspection-id, do any of you know how to do that?
2021-10-26 04:44:07 +0200wroathe(~wroathe@user/wroathe) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-10-26 04:46:48 +0200whatif(~xxx@47.245.54.240)
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2021-10-26 04:55:38 +0200wroathe(~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
2021-10-26 04:55:38 +0200wroathe(~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) (Changing host)
2021-10-26 04:55:38 +0200wroathe(~wroathe@user/wroathe)
2021-10-26 04:57:50 +0200whatif(~xxx@47.245.54.240)
2021-10-26 04:58:22 +0200waleee(~waleee@h-98-128-228-119.NA.cust.bahnhof.se) (Quit: WeeChat 3.3)
2021-10-26 04:58:43 +0200whatif(~xxx@47.245.54.240) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2021-10-26 05:02:53 +0200[itchyjunk](~itchyjunk@user/itchyjunk/x-7353470) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2021-10-26 05:35:02 +0200safinaskar(~safinaska@109.252.90.153)
2021-10-26 05:35:43 +0200 <safinaskar> how to statically build C program with curl on nix os?
2021-10-26 05:36:11 +0200 <safinaskar> (yes, this question is unrelated to haskell, but unfortunately people in #nixos keep silence, so i ask here)
2021-10-26 05:36:28 +0200 <safinaskar> i want whole binary to be static
2021-10-26 05:37:58 +0200ceedon(~ceedon@172-11-250-42.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net)
2021-10-26 05:38:47 +0200myShoggoth(~myShoggot@97-120-85-195.ptld.qwest.net)
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2021-10-26 06:07:39 +0200cjb(~cjbayliss@user/cjb) ()
2021-10-26 06:10:44 +0200dsrt^(~dsrt@wsip-68-227-92-38.mc.at.cox.net)
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2021-10-26 06:27:02 +0200 <Axman6> jackdk: you know nix, any ideas about ^ ?
2021-10-26 06:28:44 +0200 <jackdk> yeah, #nixos moved to matrix, I have a call in 90 seconds, will think more after. What's the C program linking against? just libcurl?
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2021-10-26 07:00:41 +0200 <Inst> can someone help me understand what's going on with function composition?
2021-10-26 07:01:01 +0200jinsun(~quassel@user/jinsun) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-10-26 07:01:17 +0200jinsun(~quassel@user/jinsun)
2021-10-26 07:02:03 +0200 <Inst> dropLast :: [a0] -> [a0]
2021-10-26 07:02:04 +0200 <Inst> dropLast [] = []
2021-10-26 07:02:04 +0200 <Inst> dropLast l = (reverse. reverse . init) l
2021-10-26 07:02:10 +0200 <Inst> sorry
2021-10-26 07:02:14 +0200 <Inst> https://pastebin.com/Eg4M2W4z
2021-10-26 07:02:17 +0200 <Inst> this works correctly
2021-10-26 07:02:26 +0200 <Inst> but it shouldn't, right?
2021-10-26 07:02:47 +0200 <Inst> my HLS is telling me it's wrong, that the reverse is superfluous
2021-10-26 07:02:49 +0200 <int-e> > (reverse . reverse . init) "abc"
2021-10-26 07:02:51 +0200 <lambdabot> "ab"
2021-10-26 07:02:58 +0200 <int-e> > init "abc"
2021-10-26 07:02:59 +0200 <lambdabot> "ab"
2021-10-26 07:03:02 +0200sprout(~quassel@2a02:a467:ccd6:1:e876:dcb:76b1:818b)
2021-10-26 07:03:06 +0200 <Inst> oh, i see
2021-10-26 07:03:17 +0200 <Inst> i'm an idiot
2021-10-26 07:08:15 +0200sprout(~quassel@2a02:a467:ccd6:1:e876:dcb:76b1:818b) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-10-26 07:09:34 +0200mbuf(~Shakthi@122.174.49.59)
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2021-10-26 07:12:43 +0200zebrag(~chris@user/zebrag) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2021-10-26 07:15:43 +0200segfaultfizzbuzz(~segfaultf@135-180-0-138.static.sonic.net)
2021-10-26 07:16:30 +0200segfaultfizzbuzz(~segfaultf@135-180-0-138.static.sonic.net) (Client Quit)
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2021-10-26 07:20:53 +0200whatif(~xxx@47.245.54.240)
2021-10-26 07:21:26 +0200 <sm> hls doesn't like to say that :)
2021-10-26 07:21:46 +0200whatif(~xxx@47.245.54.240) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-10-26 07:22:38 +0200bitdex(~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex)
2021-10-26 07:24:39 +0200_ht(~quassel@82-169-194-8.biz.kpn.net)
2021-10-26 07:25:20 +0200takuan(~takuan@178-116-218-225.access.telenet.be)
2021-10-26 07:31:54 +0200whatif(~xxx@47.245.54.240)
2021-10-26 07:32:05 +0200 <Axman6> but sometimes it should
2021-10-26 07:32:47 +0200whatif(~xxx@47.245.54.240) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-10-26 07:35:24 +0200 <sm> "Inst! cut it out!"
2021-10-26 07:35:39 +0200wroathe(~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
2021-10-26 07:35:39 +0200wroathe(~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) (Changing host)
2021-10-26 07:35:39 +0200wroathe(~wroathe@user/wroathe)
2021-10-26 07:36:57 +0200 <Axman6> "For real bro? Did you seriously just write that?"
2021-10-26 07:37:12 +0200 <Inst> i mistook init for tail
2021-10-26 07:37:15 +0200 <Inst> so it worked in that context
2021-10-26 07:37:48 +0200 <jneira[m]> well hls only let hlint make kind suggestions :-P
2021-10-26 07:37:51 +0200 <Axman6> so you actually wanted reverse . tail . reverse
2021-10-26 07:37:56 +0200 <Axman6> which is what init does
2021-10-26 07:38:50 +0200 <Axman6> but much more efficiently
2021-10-26 07:40:22 +0200wroathe(~wroathe@user/wroathe) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-10-26 07:42:06 +0200 <Inst> it was an exercise ;_;
2021-10-26 07:42:16 +0200sprout(~quassel@2a02:a467:ccd6:1:e876:dcb:76b1:818b)
2021-10-26 07:42:19 +0200 <Inst> i got confused and had init' that was really tail
2021-10-26 07:42:37 +0200 <Axman6> heh - nice work writing O(n) tail :P
2021-10-26 07:42:51 +0200 <Axman6> and possibly non-terminating tail
2021-10-26 07:42:54 +0200whatif(~xxx@47.245.54.240)
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2021-10-26 07:46:05 +0200 <Inst> probably, it's a lazy piece
2021-10-26 07:46:09 +0200 <Inst> just have 5 more exercises to go
2021-10-26 07:47:11 +0200sprout(~quassel@2a02:a467:ccd6:1:e876:dcb:76b1:818b) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-10-26 07:47:18 +0200 <Axman6> You can do it!
2021-10-26 07:47:59 +0200 <Axman6> Feel free to ask for feedback (if this is homework let us know because we can't just give you answers in that case - and if it is homework, there's a very good chance your lecturer is in here :)
2021-10-26 07:48:37 +0200 <Inst> not at cambridge or anywhere that might use John Whitington's textbook
2021-10-26 07:49:24 +0200 <Inst> man why am i so lazy these days
2021-10-26 07:50:08 +0200 <Inst> bleh, the question requires that i use elem to create a function that removes all duplicate items in a list
2021-10-26 07:50:32 +0200 <Inst> otherwise i'd go look up how to remove length 2 of a list comprehension nested in a list comprehension
2021-10-26 07:52:52 +0200 <Inst> there's also full solutions at the end of the book, so it doesn't matter
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2021-10-26 08:11:40 +0200haskell-noob(~haskell-n@176-93-247-194.bb.dnainternet.fi)
2021-10-26 08:12:53 +0200 <haskell-noob> hey - i'm trying to understand my veery first line of haskell code, but i'm not sure what it does: print(sum $ map (\x -> length $ filter ((==0) . (`rem` x)) [1 .. 65535] ) [1 .. 65535])
2021-10-26 08:13:57 +0200 <haskell-noob> could anyone enlighten me?
2021-10-26 08:14:26 +0200Cajun(~Cajun@user/cajun) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
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2021-10-26 08:17:17 +0200lortabac(~lortabac@atoulouse-256-1-14-70.w92-136.abo.wanadoo.fr)
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2021-10-26 08:18:01 +0200 <pavonia> haskell-noob: Do you know what the individual functions do?
2021-10-26 08:18:16 +0200 <haskell-noob> yeah, i do
2021-10-26 08:18:19 +0200myShoggoth(~myShoggot@97-120-85-195.ptld.qwest.net) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-10-26 08:18:38 +0200 <Axman6> maybe start by using a let statement to give names to each of the parts
2021-10-26 08:19:06 +0200 <haskell-noob> this isn't my code -- i'm just trying to understand it
2021-10-26 08:19:10 +0200 <Axman6> not that I've said that, I'm not sure where to start XD
2021-10-26 08:20:01 +0200 <Axman6> now*
2021-10-26 08:23:09 +0200 <Axman6> let countFactors x = length (filter (\d -> d `rem` x == 0) [1..65536]) in print (sum $ map countFators [1..65535])
2021-10-26 08:23:17 +0200 <Axman6> roughly
2021-10-26 08:24:46 +0200 <haskell-noob> so would the countFactors return all integers 1 to 65535 where the integer is divisible by x?
2021-10-26 08:25:54 +0200 <Axman6> it counts how many numbers are factors of the given number below 65536, it doesn't return them
2021-10-26 08:26:11 +0200 <Axman6> but filter (\d -> d `rem` x == 0) [1..65536] does
2021-10-26 08:26:15 +0200 <haskell-noob> ahhh
2021-10-26 08:26:16 +0200 <haskell-noob> right of course
2021-10-26 08:26:19 +0200 <haskell-noob> that makes sense
2021-10-26 08:26:20 +0200 <Axman6> factorsOf x = filter (\d -> d `rem` x == 0) [1..65536]
2021-10-26 08:26:40 +0200 <Axman6> (with the assumption that x is less than 65536
2021-10-26 08:26:53 +0200kenran(~kenran@b2b-37-24-119-190.unitymedia.biz)
2021-10-26 08:26:55 +0200whatif(~xxx@47.245.54.240)
2021-10-26 08:27:00 +0200 <Axman6> I probably messed up using 65536 instead of 65535 - habits die hard
2021-10-26 08:27:07 +0200 <haskell-noob> so the entire thing calculates the sum of how many factors each integer in the range [1 .. 65535] has
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2021-10-26 08:29:33 +0200brainfreeze(~brainfree@2a03:1b20:4:f011::20d) (Quit: Leaving)
2021-10-26 08:30:04 +0200 <Inst> in a guard specified by (x:xs), how do I set a pattern match for the empty set?
2021-10-26 08:33:53 +0200d0ku(~d0ku@178.43.15.137.ipv4.supernova.orange.pl)
2021-10-26 08:34:42 +0200haskell-noob(~haskell-n@176-93-247-194.bb.dnainternet.fi) (Quit: Client closed)
2021-10-26 08:37:42 +0200fendor(~fendor@178.115.73.9.wireless.dyn.drei.com)
2021-10-26 08:37:45 +0200 <[exa]> Inst: what does "in a guard specified by (x:xs)" mean precisely? (can you pastebin a tiny bit of code?)
2021-10-26 08:37:54 +0200whatif(~xxx@47.245.54.240)
2021-10-26 08:38:01 +0200 <[exa]> (guards are usually specified by boolean conditions)
2021-10-26 08:38:27 +0200 <Inst> https://pastebin.com/3zQdNxT8
2021-10-26 08:38:38 +0200 <Inst> with (x:xs) as an argument
2021-10-26 08:38:48 +0200whatif(~xxx@47.245.54.240) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-10-26 08:38:53 +0200 <[exa]> ah so. (x:xs) can't be of length 0
2021-10-26 08:39:14 +0200 <Inst> so I just switch (x:xs) out to x, no?
2021-10-26 08:39:16 +0200 <pavonia> @src length
2021-10-26 08:39:16 +0200 <lambdabot> Source not found. Do you think like you type?
2021-10-26 08:39:19 +0200 <[exa]> in particular, `makeSet` doesn't support empty list, because you always require the first element by patternmatching (x:xs)
2021-10-26 08:39:21 +0200 <pavonia> :<
2021-10-26 08:39:41 +0200 <[exa]> Inst: you can easily make another version for `makeSet [] = ` below that
2021-10-26 08:41:18 +0200 <Inst> thanks
2021-10-26 08:41:31 +0200 <[exa]> btw there's a way to patternmatch in guards, which could allow you to match both [] and (x:xs) variants in there (google "pattern guards") but I guess the above variant will be nicer
2021-10-26 08:41:41 +0200 <Inst> still ugly, but i hate pure pattern matching
2021-10-26 08:42:19 +0200 <Inst> i also discovered i hate this textbook and hutton's is better, but if I don't finish it I'm just going to keep on switching from textbook to textbook until I've read the entirety of haskell literature targeted at non-programmers
2021-10-26 08:43:01 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
2021-10-26 08:43:21 +0200 <[exa]> Inst: re "pure pattern matching" -- why hate it? (the multiple definitions style?)
2021-10-26 08:43:30 +0200 <Inst> having to type the function over and over again
2021-10-26 08:43:33 +0200 <Inst> it's a nice tool when you need it
2021-10-26 08:44:21 +0200 <Inst> and in Haskell, is there a way to say c == (2 || 3)?
2021-10-26 08:45:24 +0200 <Inst> thanks for the help, [exa]
2021-10-26 08:45:32 +0200 <lortabac> Inst: pattern-matching does not require typing the function name over and over again
2021-10-26 08:45:47 +0200 <lortabac> you can use "case"
2021-10-26 08:46:20 +0200 <lortabac> the syntax with the repeated function name is just syntactic sugar, it's useful when you want to match on multiple arguments at once
2021-10-26 08:46:39 +0200 <[exa]> Inst: I guess || isn't the boolean OR, ie. the condition doesn't reduce to c==True right?
2021-10-26 08:46:55 +0200 <[exa]> Inst: in that case ' c `elem` [2,3] ' would work
2021-10-26 08:47:18 +0200 <[exa]> also yeah +1 for `case`
2021-10-26 08:47:35 +0200 <Inst> i see
2021-10-26 08:48:22 +0200 <Inst> it's intended as a boolean or, i.e, ways to stuff things on one line and so on
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2021-10-26 08:54:13 +0200artemis(~artemis@94-212-96-168.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl)
2021-10-26 08:54:15 +0200chele(~chele@user/chele)
2021-10-26 08:59:22 +0200 <Axman6> case xs of [] -> doAThing; (y:ys) | x `elem [2,3] -> doThingsFor2And3 | otherwise -> doOtherThings
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2021-10-26 09:08:51 +0200jonathanx_(~jonathan@dyn-8-sc.cdg.chalmers.se)
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2021-10-26 09:17:08 +0200 <jackdk> @help tell
2021-10-26 09:17:08 +0200 <lambdabot> tell <nick> <message>. When <nick> shows activity, tell them <message>.
2021-10-26 09:17:23 +0200 <jackdk> tell safinaskar https://git.sr.ht/~jack/curl-nix-sample
2021-10-26 09:17:36 +0200 <jackdk> @tell safinaskar https://git.sr.ht/~jack/curl-nix-sample
2021-10-26 09:17:36 +0200 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
2021-10-26 09:18:17 +0200eggplantade(~Eggplanta@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:197f:30be:cf5f:af55)
2021-10-26 09:18:28 +0200 <jackdk> Axman6: stop nerd sniping me
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2021-10-26 09:30:14 +0200 <timCF> Hello I do have a problem. Problem are hundreds of types generated from Google Protobuf API schema, which do have a lot of ByteString fields which are looking ugly in case I'm trying to log them using Show. I'd prefer ByteString to look just like array of bytes (Int8) or at least as normal hex string. Is there any easy solution except doing my own GHC.Generics based Show class (to not implement it for any
2021-10-26 09:30:20 +0200 <timCF> single of hundreds types)?
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2021-10-26 09:34:14 +0200ubert(~Thunderbi@178.115.41.93.wireless.dyn.drei.com)
2021-10-26 09:35:00 +0200 <[exa]> timCF: I guess the solution with Generics isn't bad, given it's only for showing the stuff to the user
2021-10-26 09:35:27 +0200 <[exa]> normally you'd need to rewrite the Show instance for ByteString which is not adviseable I'd say
2021-10-26 09:36:52 +0200 <[exa]> notably, `generic-pretty` is pretty good
2021-10-26 09:37:22 +0200 <[exa]> and you can easily inject a specialized ByteString handling there
2021-10-26 09:42:14 +0200jgeerds(~jgeerds@55d40de2.access.ecotel.net)
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2021-10-26 10:07:02 +0200 <timCF> [exa]: thanks!
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2021-10-26 11:44:42 +0200 <jonathanx_> Is there a way to automatically fix --pedantic errors? Like redundant imports/language pragmas?
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2021-10-26 11:45:22 +0200dyeplexer(~dyeplexer@user/dyeplexer) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-10-26 11:45:51 +0200 <jonathanx_> I'm on vscode :)
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2021-10-26 11:48:06 +0200 <fendor> jonathanx_, while not completely automatic, you can at least in each file click the code-action "remove redundant imports"
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2021-10-26 12:39:13 +0200 <timCF> I'm trying to derive Generic for `newtype Vout = Vout Word32` but there is no Generic instance for Word32 (which seems pretty basic type) - is that expected and why?
2021-10-26 12:39:36 +0200jespada(~jespada@181.28.253.200)
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2021-10-26 12:44:23 +0200 <dminuoso> % data F = F Word32 deriving Generic -- timCF
2021-10-26 12:44:24 +0200 <yahb> dminuoso:
2021-10-26 12:44:39 +0200 <dminuoso> Please share your code and the error message you are getting.
2021-10-26 12:45:37 +0200 <dminuoso> Oh wait
2021-10-26 12:45:56 +0200 <dminuoso> % newtype F = F Word32 deriving Generic -- timCF
2021-10-26 12:45:56 +0200 <yahb> dminuoso:
2021-10-26 12:46:00 +0200 <dminuoso> There this is the correct example.
2021-10-26 12:46:42 +0200 <timCF> dminuoso: I'm usually using `deriving newtype` strategy. Strange it's not working.
2021-10-26 12:47:48 +0200 <dminuoso> timCF: Of course that wouldn't work.
2021-10-26 12:48:05 +0200 <timCF> dminuoso: the same example but with `deriving newtype` gives error `No instance for (Generic Word32)`
2021-10-26 12:48:15 +0200 <dminuoso> timCF: GND uses coerce to pierce the newtype and give you the underlying instance instead.
2021-10-26 12:48:25 +0200 <dminuoso> But Word32 doesnt have a Generic representation, because its a builtin/primitive type.
2021-10-26 12:49:27 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-10-26 12:49:31 +0200 <timCF> dminuoso: Got it, thanks! Do you know, can I still use `deriving newtype` for other classes, but use `deriving stock` for Generic?
2021-10-26 12:49:45 +0200 <timCF> Somehow in one expression
2021-10-26 12:49:52 +0200 <dminuoso> timCF: You can use it for any class you want in general, even Generic.
2021-10-26 12:49:59 +0200 <dminuoso> In one expression?
2021-10-26 12:50:05 +0200 <dminuoso> These are not expressions, gramatically
2021-10-26 12:50:10 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
2021-10-26 12:50:14 +0200 <timCF> yes, without standalone instance syntax
2021-10-26 12:50:16 +0200 <dminuoso> timCF: You can use DerivingStrategies to specify multiple ones.
2021-10-26 12:51:01 +0200whatif(~xxx@47.245.54.240)
2021-10-26 12:51:08 +0200 <timCF> dminuoso: wow, that's cool extension! Thanks!
2021-10-26 12:51:13 +0200 <dminuoso> % newtype F = F Word deriving stock Generic deriving newtype Num
2021-10-26 12:51:13 +0200 <yahb> dminuoso:
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2021-10-26 13:46:28 +0200 <albet70> what's the major changes in ghc 9.x than 8.x?
2021-10-26 13:47:08 +0200 <merijn> albet70: Check the release notes? :p
2021-10-26 13:48:10 +0200robosexual(~spaceoyst@88.85.216.62) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2021-10-26 13:49:08 +0200asus232(~user@114.250.136.140)
2021-10-26 13:51:51 +0200 <Cajun> quite a bit, 9.2 looks especially fun :)
2021-10-26 13:53:10 +0200deni_deni
2021-10-26 13:54:13 +0200 <albet70> "Cajun :quite a bit, 9.2 looks especially fun :)", in which way?
2021-10-26 13:54:37 +0200rond_(~rond_@2a02:a31a:a23c:f480:2fd7:e087:5546:a438) (Quit: Client closed)
2021-10-26 13:55:48 +0200 <merijn> albet70: Presumably extensions, whether those are relevant depends how useful those are for you :p
2021-10-26 13:56:19 +0200asus232(~user@114.250.136.140) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-10-26 13:56:28 +0200 <merijn> albet70: Note that the GHC user guide has release notes somewhere at the start documenting all import new features
2021-10-26 13:57:03 +0200 <merijn> Actually, there's one exciting new thing in 9.2
2021-10-26 13:57:09 +0200 <merijn> -XNoFieldSelectors !
2021-10-26 13:57:40 +0200 <yushyin> ^ i want that!
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2021-10-26 13:58:37 +0200 <merijn> I mean, screw all these complex record extensions, NoFieldSelectors means safe usage of record fields in sumtypes and that's all I really want :p
2021-10-26 13:59:20 +0200 <merijn> NoFieldSelectors + NamedFieldPuns, new match made in heaven
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2021-10-26 14:14:17 +0200mastarija(~mastarija@31.217.25.149)
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2021-10-26 14:17:17 +0200 <mastarija> Do you think a game server for a game like Agar.IO implemented in Haskell can be profitable?
2021-10-26 14:17:44 +0200 <dminuoso> I dont think games are profitable in general.
2021-10-26 14:17:45 +0200 <merijn> Yes, no, maybe, it depends
2021-10-26 14:18:03 +0200 <mastarija> I've been working on a similar game for a while now, and now I'm thinking about costs of maintaining such a game server
2021-10-26 14:18:18 +0200 <dminuoso> Most game developers do it out of either misbelief in hidden fortunes, because they are masochists or because they just like games a lot.
2021-10-26 14:18:22 +0200 <merijn> Let me refine my answer: If you think technology matters for game success, you probably don't understand games well enough to make a profit :)
2021-10-26 14:18:46 +0200 <mastarija> Or rather, since margins will probably be tight I'm not sure if I could cover server expenses
2021-10-26 14:19:01 +0200 <dminuoso> The only way to make money off a game, is by hiring hords of underpayed developers, giving them high pressure to release poor code quickly, do good marketing, and then sell your game.
2021-10-26 14:19:04 +0200 <merijn> mastarija: Doubt it, servers are *really* cheap these days
2021-10-26 14:19:24 +0200 <dminuoso> mastarija: What's expensive about games is the developers and marketing.
2021-10-26 14:19:36 +0200 <merijn> dminuoso: Or channel divine inspiration and solo develop the biggest game of the year in fucking "GameMaker Studios" >.>
2021-10-26 14:20:16 +0200shapr(~user@pool-100-36-247-68.washdc.fios.verizon.net)
2021-10-26 14:20:19 +0200 <merijn> Looking at you, Undertale, inspiring inferiority complexes in aspiring game developers everywhere... >.>
2021-10-26 14:20:23 +0200 <mastarija> dminuoso, I'm just looking to publish my work and keep it running
2021-10-26 14:20:35 +0200 <dminuoso> merijn: heh. There's a lot of survivor bias in that. :)
2021-10-26 14:20:38 +0200 <mastarija> not really looking for riches
2021-10-26 14:20:46 +0200 <dminuoso> The huge masses of indie game developers that are not successful..
2021-10-26 14:20:52 +0200 <kuribas> mastarija: ask for a subscription fee.
2021-10-26 14:21:04 +0200 <merijn> mastarija: What makes you think the expenses of a server will be too high? How big a server do you think you need and how much do you imagine that costs?
2021-10-26 14:21:12 +0200 <merijn> dminuoso: Hence the "channel divine inspiration"
2021-10-26 14:21:14 +0200chele(~chele@user/chele) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-10-26 14:21:18 +0200 <merijn> That part is the hard bit :p
2021-10-26 14:21:35 +0200 <merijn> dminuoso: See also Stardew Valley and RimWorld :p
2021-10-26 14:21:35 +0200 <mastarija> Developing server in Haskell seems easier than doing it in Cpp (though I'm comfortable with both)
2021-10-26 14:21:47 +0200 <mastarija> I just have 0 experience in real life production Haskell
2021-10-26 14:21:53 +0200 <kuribas> mastarija: high server fees makes it sound like you'll have a lot of users :)
2021-10-26 14:22:08 +0200 <mastarija> That's the end goal
2021-10-26 14:22:16 +0200 <dminuoso> mastarija: First reality is, if you want contributors for a game, haskell is a terrible pick out of its low popularity.
2021-10-26 14:22:21 +0200 <merijn> mastarija: Note that if you're in comfortable with C and C++ then mixing and matching with Haskell as glue code is fairly straightforward
2021-10-26 14:22:28 +0200 <kuribas> mastarija: so start with a small working, cheap server.
2021-10-26 14:22:29 +0200 <mastarija> dminuoso, I don't want contributors :D
2021-10-26 14:22:52 +0200 <mastarija> merijn, yes I did some FFI
2021-10-26 14:23:00 +0200eggplantade(~Eggplanta@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:197f:30be:cf5f:af55)
2021-10-26 14:23:20 +0200 <mastarija> But my primary trade is WebDev and I have very little intuition about game servers
2021-10-26 14:23:37 +0200 <zincy> Is there a marketing plan for the game?
2021-10-26 14:23:49 +0200 <mastarija> zincy, yes
2021-10-26 14:24:03 +0200 <mastarija> I've been working on the idea for the past few years
2021-10-26 14:24:06 +0200 <dminuoso> merijn: Its not just divine inspiration though. You also need to channel divine energy to keep you alive while working tirelessly 15 hours a day, 6.5 days a week for 53 weeks in a year to deliver your indie game.
2021-10-26 14:24:20 +0200 <dminuoso> It's a darn cutthroat business.
2021-10-26 14:24:27 +0200 <zincy> When it comes to building projects people generally spend way too much time on the technology and then find out no one cares about the product
2021-10-26 14:24:33 +0200 <dminuoso> It's pretty much like fintech, except without the money.
2021-10-26 14:24:33 +0200 <zincy> *products
2021-10-26 14:24:33 +0200 <mastarija> With corona + some crypto gains I finally had some time to relax and work on the game ;)
2021-10-26 14:25:10 +0200 <mastarija> I've read that one of the "price" bottlenecks for games is bandwidth
2021-10-26 14:25:23 +0200 <dminuoso> Or any startup I guess? :)
2021-10-26 14:25:34 +0200 <mastarija> + I have somewhat more complex physics than agar
2021-10-26 14:25:37 +0200 <zincy> You will most likely face a user demand issue first before anything else
2021-10-26 14:25:46 +0200 <mastarija> I can deal with that :D
2021-10-26 14:26:03 +0200 <mastarija> My country subreddit is pretty active and supportive of gamedevs
2021-10-26 14:26:07 +0200boxscape_(~boxscape_@134.171.69.87)
2021-10-26 14:26:09 +0200 <mastarija> So that's an entry point
2021-10-26 14:26:15 +0200Guest82(~Guest82@eth-west-pareq2-46-193-4-100.wb.wifirst.net)
2021-10-26 14:26:32 +0200MQ-17J(~MQ-17J@8.6.144.197) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-10-26 14:27:22 +0200 <merijn> mastarija: bandwidth is fairly cheap in the grand scheme of things. You can get a 2 core server with 2TB bandwidth per month for, like, 5 dollars or less. The main bandwidth restriction in gaming is that you need good latency which limits how much data you can rely on sending
2021-10-26 14:27:35 +0200 <mastarija> So Haskell memory and cpu usage are not a big concern for a game server you think?
2021-10-26 14:27:47 +0200 <dminuoso> Seeing as Im working at an ISP, I can tell you right away that servers and bandwidths are mostly for free.
2021-10-26 14:27:48 +0200 <mastarija> merijn, yes, latency is a given
2021-10-26 14:27:54 +0200 <dminuoso> Their cost is almost completely negligible.
2021-10-26 14:27:59 +0200eggplantade(~Eggplanta@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:197f:30be:cf5f:af55) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-10-26 14:28:16 +0200 <dminuoso> You have to scale incredibly high for their cost to become a relevant factor
2021-10-26 14:28:28 +0200 <merijn> mastarija: If you earn non-zero incoming, paying for a big enough server is easy, because servers are generally fairly cheap (unless you have crazy usage)
2021-10-26 14:28:38 +0200 <merijn> The real issue is ever hitting non-zero income :p
2021-10-26 14:28:40 +0200max22-(~maxime@2a01cb0883359800a0295da993ecee0f.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-10-26 14:28:43 +0200 <dminuoso> mastarija: One of the problems with Haskell, is that in GHC Haskell we have a stop-the-world garbage collector.
2021-10-26 14:28:46 +0200 <dminuoso> That can create latency issues.
2021-10-26 14:29:17 +0200 <boxscape_> There is a low-latency garbage collector as well though, now
2021-10-26 14:29:18 +0200 <mastarija> dminuoso, yes that's ok I think
2021-10-26 14:29:31 +0200 <merijn> boxscape_: "low"
2021-10-26 14:29:37 +0200 <boxscape_> lower, at least
2021-10-26 14:29:38 +0200 <dminuoso> mastarija: Its okay if your game server pauses for 10ms in the wrong moment?
2021-10-26 14:29:40 +0200 <dminuoso> Just asking.
2021-10-26 14:29:58 +0200 <mastarija> yes, I have decent client side prediction
2021-10-26 14:30:51 +0200 <mastarija> my main concern now is "if" I suddenly get a lot of trafic, I don't want to loose those customers because I couldn't scale
2021-10-26 14:31:10 +0200 <dminuoso> There's no silver bullet
2021-10-26 14:31:17 +0200 <mastarija> yes
2021-10-26 14:31:30 +0200wonko(~wjc@62.115.229.50) (Quit: See You Space Cowboy..)
2021-10-26 14:31:51 +0200 <dminuoso> It's a very subtle balance to write software that can architecturally be adapted (!) to scale, but not overspend on premature optimization.
2021-10-26 14:31:56 +0200 <merijn> Ok, lemme stop you there and tell you know that engineering to scale with abitrary *hypothetical* large traffic spikes is a great way to never get anywhere :)
2021-10-26 14:31:57 +0200cfricke(~cfricke@user/cfricke)
2021-10-26 14:32:22 +0200 <lortabac> merijn: +1
2021-10-26 14:32:26 +0200 <dminuoso> Have predicted growth, aim for that.
2021-10-26 14:32:29 +0200 <mastarija> merijn, I know that, however I don't think I'm optimizing prematurely here
2021-10-26 14:32:36 +0200 <dminuoso> If the growrth exceeds your predictions, refactor.
2021-10-26 14:32:46 +0200 <dminuoso> Yes you are.
2021-10-26 14:32:50 +0200 <dminuoso> 14:30:51 mastarija | my main concern now is "if" I suddenly get a lot of trafic,
2021-10-26 14:33:00 +0200 <merijn> Well, you don't even have a game, so you can't even predict how traffic will affect your game :p
2021-10-26 14:33:01 +0200 <kuribas> merijn: no, it's not! That's why every project needs microservices + cloud computing!
2021-10-26 14:33:14 +0200 <dminuoso> mastarija: write code, profile, optimize. in that order.
2021-10-26 14:33:25 +0200 <kuribas> and kubernetes and inlimited scalability.
2021-10-26 14:33:29 +0200chele(~chele@user/chele)
2021-10-26 14:33:38 +0200 <dminuoso> mastarija: you are trying to mix in hypothetical predictions of growth of users you dont have, playing a game you dont have.
2021-10-26 14:33:39 +0200 <boxscape_> is a microservices architecture feasible for a game server?
2021-10-26 14:34:05 +0200 <dminuoso> kuribas: Must be why so many games run on k8s.
2021-10-26 14:34:09 +0200CiaoSen(~Jura@p200300c95730dd002a3a4dfffe84dbd5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2021-10-26 14:34:19 +0200 <mastarija> don't know kubernetes, I have only resources to finish the basic game (it's already in a somewhat working state), also I don't have much funds so I'll be the only one working
2021-10-26 14:34:20 +0200 <dminuoso> This is quite an interesting remark, I shall remember it.
2021-10-26 14:34:40 +0200 <dminuoso> mastarija: You said yourself, you only have web development experience.
2021-10-26 14:34:42 +0200 <kuribas> mastarija: I was being ironic, don't use kubernetes :)
2021-10-26 14:35:02 +0200 <mastarija> "if" I get a lot of trafic, it won't be "profitable" for at least a while
2021-10-26 14:35:22 +0200 <dminuoso> You want to: a) build a game, b) expect to scale beyond expectations, c) design for that scale, and you have very limited funds, and d) no experience in writing scaling software or game software.
2021-10-26 14:35:24 +0200 <geekosaur> you can scratch the "if" part of that :)
2021-10-26 14:35:27 +0200albet70(~xxx@2400:8902::f03c:92ff:fe60:98d8) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-10-26 14:35:40 +0200 <dminuoso> Not trying to dissuade you, but it sounds to me like you have a bad project plan.
2021-10-26 14:35:44 +0200 <mastarija> and being the only dev with no cash I can't scale
2021-10-26 14:35:57 +0200 <merijn> I mean, realistically getting more than 0 traffic exceeds the average indie
2021-10-26 14:36:08 +0200 <merijn> Your problem won't be "I can't scale"
2021-10-26 14:36:23 +0200 <dminuoso> merijn: Haha. Read that news about that fancy "electronic drivers license app" fail in Germany?
2021-10-26 14:36:29 +0200 <merijn> Your real problem will be "nobody will care enough for scaling to ever be relevant"
2021-10-26 14:36:46 +0200slowtyper(~slowtyper@user/slowtyper) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2021-10-26 14:36:49 +0200 <merijn> So focus on solving the "make people care problem", then you can solve scaling if/when that happens
2021-10-26 14:36:53 +0200 <merijn> dminuoso: No?
2021-10-26 14:37:01 +0200 <mastarija> I'm pretty confident in success :), so investing a bit of time in advance, at least in a plan of how to scale is worth it from my perspective
2021-10-26 14:37:34 +0200slowtyper(~slowtyper@user/slowtyper)
2021-10-26 14:38:08 +0200 <kuribas> mastarija: spend you time in advance to make it work, then if you'ld get enough traffic, you should have more funds to make it performant.
2021-10-26 14:38:08 +0200 <dminuoso> merijn: It was some "government spends many millions on blockchain nonsense" on an electronic drivers license that is worthless (its not recognizable in a traffic control), and it turns out that after the first thousand registration the entire thing came crashing in performance. It couldn't even scale to *hold* or process more than a thousand registrations.
2021-10-26 14:38:10 +0200 <dminuoso> Total.
2021-10-26 14:38:16 +0200 <lortabac> mastarija: I'd suggest you to focus on one problem at a time
2021-10-26 14:38:17 +0200 <dminuoso> Not thousand a second, Just some thousand total.
2021-10-26 14:38:43 +0200 <lortabac> for now the focus should be on releasing the game and have users
2021-10-26 14:39:15 +0200 <mastarija> lortabac, I know that, I was just looking for some opinions since I have no experience with Haskell in production
2021-10-26 14:39:28 +0200 <dminuoso> mastarija: Since you have limited funds, pick a language you're already familiar with.
2021-10-26 14:39:43 +0200 <geekosaur> there might be better ways to get experience on haskell in production than trying to dive into gamedev with no experience
2021-10-26 14:39:44 +0200 <dminuoso> It reduces costs of making the many learning mistakes of a completely strange programming language.
2021-10-26 14:39:58 +0200 <geekosaur> my own experience is one new thing is enough, two at once is asking for trouble
2021-10-26 14:40:09 +0200 <kuribas> It will be much harder to get good latency in haskell than in C++.
2021-10-26 14:40:13 +0200 <dminuoso> Haskell is particularly nasty to create performance problems with if you don't have experience.
2021-10-26 14:40:20 +0200 <mastarija> It takes some effort to write the server, if for some reason unbeknownst to me Haskell might be troublesome for a game server (other than garbage collector) than I'd go with CPP
2021-10-26 14:40:28 +0200 <mastarija> I know CPP and Haskell very well
2021-10-26 14:40:34 +0200 <dminuoso> If I was to write a game server, I might do it in Rust perhaps?
2021-10-26 14:40:35 +0200 <mastarija> So that's why I was asking
2021-10-26 14:40:41 +0200chele(~chele@user/chele) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-10-26 14:40:44 +0200justsomeguy(~justsomeg@user/justsomeguy)
2021-10-26 14:40:44 +0200 <dminuoso> Gives me good performance, an acceptable type system and semantics...
2021-10-26 14:40:52 +0200 <mastarija> dminuoso, don't really know rust
2021-10-26 14:40:53 +0200 <dminuoso> And more easily predictable memory behavior
2021-10-26 14:40:59 +0200 <kuribas> +1 for rust
2021-10-26 14:41:00 +0200 <maerwald> gamedev needs a lot of ecosystem
2021-10-26 14:41:04 +0200 <maerwald> Haskell doesn't have it
2021-10-26 14:41:13 +0200 <maerwald> serious gamedev, that is
2021-10-26 14:41:24 +0200 <mastarija> client is JS, server is Haskell, I just need networking library
2021-10-26 14:41:43 +0200 <maerwald> I don't think performance is your worst enemy in gamedev... I mean people are writing games in C#
2021-10-26 14:41:46 +0200 <mastarija> maerwald, sure, I'm not serious gamedev thoug :D
2021-10-26 14:42:11 +0200 <maerwald> and the GC in C# causes serious issues
2021-10-26 14:42:58 +0200 <mastarija> I guess I'll report back in few months :D
2021-10-26 14:44:54 +0200chele(~chele@user/chele)
2021-10-26 14:45:08 +0200 <timCF> Speaking about games - recently I did some small googling about simple games for developers designed to be played by developer-written bots, not humans. Shuch that you and your co-workers are writing multiple bots which fight with each other on some sort of arena
2021-10-26 14:45:30 +0200 <dminuoso> Many decades old.
2021-10-26 14:45:38 +0200 <merijn> timCF: A ton of those exist
2021-10-26 14:45:54 +0200burnsidesLlama(~burnsides@dhcp168-053.wadham.ox.ac.uk) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-10-26 14:46:07 +0200 <mastarija> I think there's even a site like codewars where you program such bots
2021-10-26 14:46:12 +0200bitdex(~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-10-26 14:46:22 +0200alzgh(~alzgh@user/alzgh)
2021-10-26 14:46:26 +0200wonko(~wjc@62.115.229.50)
2021-10-26 14:46:37 +0200 <timCF> merijn: I did found only one called BatteSnake (I want it to allow implement bot in any programming language and communicate through web API)
2021-10-26 14:47:13 +0200bitdex(~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex)
2021-10-26 14:47:47 +0200 <kuribas> corewars?
2021-10-26 14:48:07 +0200 <geekosaur> you may be using the wrong search terms. those kinds of game have been around since the 90s
2021-10-26 14:48:12 +0200 <geekosaur> yeh, that
2021-10-26 14:48:24 +0200 <merijn> corewars, there's the online scripted MMORTS
2021-10-26 14:48:31 +0200 <merijn> a billion variants of corewars, tbh
2021-10-26 14:48:40 +0200 <dminuoso> We had a bunch of such DOS games at the time
2021-10-26 14:48:52 +0200 <dminuoso> Cant recall the names, but there was a plethora of these
2021-10-26 14:49:06 +0200 <kritzefitz> I think screeps is a more recent example.
2021-10-26 14:49:16 +0200 <merijn> ah, screeps is the one I was thinking off, yeah
2021-10-26 14:49:20 +0200 <geekosaur> corewars was the first one I heard of and may have been the first one to exist
2021-10-26 14:49:48 +0200pbrisbin(~patrick@pool-173-49-152-45.phlapa.fios.verizon.net) (Quit: WeeChat 3.3)
2021-10-26 14:50:24 +0200albet70(~xxx@2400:8902::f03c:92ff:fe60:98d8)
2021-10-26 14:50:48 +0200john232(~user@114.250.136.140)
2021-10-26 14:51:36 +0200pbrisbin(~patrick@pool-173-49-152-45.phlapa.fios.verizon.net)
2021-10-26 14:52:13 +0200 <kritzefitz> I once set out to make such a game in Haskell, but as discussed earlier, insufficient experience in game development and lack of ecosystem for gamedev in Haskell have prevented me from finishing this project (yet).
2021-10-26 14:53:35 +0200fryguybob(~fryguybob@cpe-74-67-169-145.rochester.res.rr.com) (Quit: leaving)
2021-10-26 14:54:03 +0200 <geekosaur> hmm, ytry: try to trick another bot into making a Y combinator :þ
2021-10-26 14:54:05 +0200 <mastarija> kritzefitz, hopefully, once ARM is fully supported this will change
2021-10-26 14:54:59 +0200machinedgod(~machinedg@135-23-192-217.cpe.pppoe.ca)
2021-10-26 14:55:30 +0200 <kritzefitz> I'm not sure how support for ARM (by GHC?) would affect my experience in game development or the adoption of Haskell for game development.
2021-10-26 14:56:21 +0200shriekingnoise(~shrieking@186.137.144.80)
2021-10-26 14:58:55 +0200deni(~deni@user/deni) (Quit: bye...)
2021-10-26 15:01:27 +0200deni(~deni@user/deni)
2021-10-26 15:04:42 +0200tim1(~tim@dslb-088-070-254-249.088.070.pools.vodafone-ip.de)
2021-10-26 15:05:05 +0200zer0bitz(~zer0bitz@dsl-hkibng31-54fae3-116.dhcp.inet.fi)
2021-10-26 15:05:38 +0200zer0bitz(~zer0bitz@dsl-hkibng31-54fae3-116.dhcp.inet.fi) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-10-26 15:06:11 +0200whatif(~xxx@47.245.54.240)
2021-10-26 15:06:21 +0200 <tim1> Just got Real World Haskell from my library. Has anyone read this book, is it good?
2021-10-26 15:07:04 +0200whatif(~xxx@47.245.54.240) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-10-26 15:07:08 +0200 <Clint> i found it to be inconsistent and outdated
2021-10-26 15:07:18 +0200albet70(~xxx@2400:8902::f03c:92ff:fe60:98d8) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-10-26 15:07:31 +0200AlexNoo_AlexNoo
2021-10-26 15:07:46 +0200albet70(~xxx@2400:8902::f03c:92ff:fe60:98d8)
2021-10-26 15:07:53 +0200ystael(~ystael@user/ystael)
2021-10-26 15:07:58 +0200 <sshine> outdated. I think it was good at some point. there are still chapters that are good.
2021-10-26 15:08:09 +0200 <tim1> Oh ok do you have any other recommendation.
2021-10-26 15:08:55 +0200 <sshine> I don't think there is a realer world haskell book :) what are you looking for?
2021-10-26 15:09:23 +0200 <mastarija> kritzefitz, ARM support would incentivize mobile app development in Haskell, it's also easier to sell your apps on mobile. Money is great incentive to put some effort into GUI / Graphics libraries.
2021-10-26 15:09:51 +0200 <tim1> I just want to get started with haskell, bc I never did much in functional programming so basically an Introduction to Haskell
2021-10-26 15:10:10 +0200 <mastarija> tim1, just read / follow "Learn you a haskell"
2021-10-26 15:10:36 +0200 <mastarija> It's simple and easy to start with
2021-10-26 15:10:47 +0200 <boxscape_> tim1 here's a list of links http://book.realworldhaskell.org/read/index.html
2021-10-26 15:10:51 +0200 <merijn> tbh, LYAH is not a very good book in terms of teaching
2021-10-26 15:10:53 +0200 <merijn> @where books
2021-10-26 15:10:53 +0200 <lambdabot> https://www.extrema.is/articles/haskell-books, see also @where LYAH, RWH, YAHT, SOE, HR, PIH, TFwH, wikibook, PCPH, HPFFP, HTAC, TwT, FoP, PFAD, WYAH, non-haskell-books
2021-10-26 15:11:03 +0200 <boxscape_> tim1 I gave you the wrong link -.-
2021-10-26 15:11:10 +0200 <boxscape_> I meant to post this https://github.com/bitemyapp/learnhaskell
2021-10-26 15:11:15 +0200 <mastarija> merijn, I've heard this sentiment
2021-10-26 15:11:27 +0200 <mastarija> I think it's better at teaching basic haskell than any other book I've read
2021-10-26 15:11:41 +0200 <tim1> No problem thank you all learn you a haskell sounds really cool
2021-10-26 15:11:46 +0200 <opqdonut> tim1: try haskell.mooc.fi
2021-10-26 15:11:46 +0200 <mastarija> http://learnyouahaskell.com/chapters
2021-10-26 15:11:53 +0200 <merijn> It doesn't really teach you anything, tbh. Once you finish LYAH you can't really write any real code
2021-10-26 15:12:00 +0200 <opqdonut> tim1: it's an online course with exercises that get automatically checked
2021-10-26 15:12:07 +0200 <opqdonut> tim1: (and it's completely free & open)
2021-10-26 15:12:10 +0200 <mastarija> merijn, it's for getting started
2021-10-26 15:12:37 +0200 <boxscape_> reminds me of a duolingo courses for natural languages :)
2021-10-26 15:13:31 +0200zer0bitz(~zer0bitz@dsl-hkibng31-54fae3-116.dhcp.inet.fi)
2021-10-26 15:13:43 +0200 <tim1> Ok thank you guys will check them out! :)
2021-10-26 15:15:04 +0200mastarija(~mastarija@31.217.25.149) (Quit: Leaving)
2021-10-26 15:15:25 +0200gdd(~gdd@129.199.146.230)
2021-10-26 15:16:27 +0200 <justsomeguy> Some of these books like "Haskell Programming from First Principles" and "Get Programming with Haskell" have online meetups, sometimes, which I find useful.
2021-10-26 15:16:58 +0200boxscape_(~boxscape_@134.171.69.87) (Quit: Connection closed)
2021-10-26 15:18:00 +0200justsomeguypersonally likes "Get Programming with Haskell" most, since it's brief and conversational. It doesn't do a good job of explaining environment setup, though. (Build tools, etc.)
2021-10-26 15:18:22 +0200 <justsomeguy> But maybe I shouldn't be reccomending books, since I don't yet know haskell.
2021-10-26 15:19:14 +0200john232(~user@114.250.136.140) (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 26.3))
2021-10-26 15:19:44 +0200burnsidesLlama(~burnsides@dhcp168-053.wadham.ox.ac.uk)
2021-10-26 15:19:49 +0200timCF(~timCF@200-149-20-81.sta.estpak.ee) (Quit: leaving)
2021-10-26 15:20:11 +0200 <tim1> haha but thanks will check it out
2021-10-26 15:23:41 +0200wonko(~wjc@62.115.229.50) (Quit: See You Space Cowboy..)
2021-10-26 15:24:29 +0200burnsidesLlama(~burnsides@dhcp168-053.wadham.ox.ac.uk) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-10-26 15:24:45 +0200 <albet70> what's the easiest way to distro a binary package compiled by ghc?
2021-10-26 15:25:18 +0200 <albet70> distribute
2021-10-26 15:27:37 +0200 <shapr> albet70: ooh, I want to know that too
2021-10-26 15:27:52 +0200 <shapr> albet70: I've seen people upload to hackage, but that's a binary distribution
2021-10-26 15:28:01 +0200waleee(~waleee@2001:9b0:216:8200:d457:9189:7843:1dbd)
2021-10-26 15:28:02 +0200 <shapr> I've seen people use nix to build a binary.
2021-10-26 15:28:56 +0200 <kritzefitz> albet70: If you don't have data files, you might get away with distributing a single statically compiled binary.
2021-10-26 15:30:29 +0200 <kritzefitz> albet70: otherwise you might want to look at this link, even though the answers there might be a bit unsatisfactory: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/68761677
2021-10-26 15:31:27 +0200 <shapr> justsomeguy: or maybe you have a good viewpoint because others of us already know haskell?
2021-10-26 15:32:19 +0200hyiltiz(~quassel@31.220.5.250) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-10-26 15:36:33 +0200 <justsomeguy> Maybe the frustrations of trying to learn are fresher in my mind.
2021-10-26 15:37:47 +0200fryguybob(~fryguybob@cpe-74-67-169-145.rochester.res.rr.com)
2021-10-26 15:38:10 +0200 <albet70> kritzefitz, statically? how? musl?
2021-10-26 15:38:26 +0200CiaoSen(~Jura@p200300c95730dd002a3a4dfffe84dbd5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2021-10-26 15:38:29 +0200 <albet70> shapr, I'd like to have a binary distribution
2021-10-26 15:38:35 +0200 <dminuoso> albet70: Do it on an alpine docker image for ease.
2021-10-26 15:39:04 +0200 <dminuoso> That way you have the full toolchain available, including musl and other static .a libraries
2021-10-26 15:39:15 +0200 <dminuoso> Remember to pass the appropriate linker flags to ghc
2021-10-26 15:39:27 +0200 <albet70> I see
2021-10-26 15:40:14 +0200 <albet70> most gnu linux distro use dynamic links, not good to ghc
2021-10-26 15:40:37 +0200 <kritzefitz> albet70: I guess it depends on your target audience and what foreign dependencies you have besides libc. If you only have foreign dependencies on “standard” libraries, you could just assume that your users will probably already have those libraries installed.
2021-10-26 15:41:37 +0200 <albet70> archlinux, debian 9, debian 10, those three I don't think they share the same libs
2021-10-26 15:42:02 +0200 <albet70> specially archlinux, pain in the ass
2021-10-26 15:42:14 +0200 <dminuoso> albet70: Yeah. So far Ive only had two good experiencing making static haskell binaries. Alpine Linux or on Nixos with static-haskell-nix, but the latter is only sensible if you're already an intermediate/expert at nix.
2021-10-26 15:42:19 +0200 <merijn> albet70: You'll have to compile executables per distro, yes. Like all other compiled languages
2021-10-26 15:42:21 +0200 <dminuoso> Alpine Linux is way easier and very reliable.
2021-10-26 15:42:36 +0200 <dminuoso> And doing it via docker makes it very portable as to where you build it.
2021-10-26 15:43:00 +0200 <dminuoso> We used to do this via docker executors in our gitlab back when we still did static linking.
2021-10-26 15:43:49 +0200 <dminuoso> albet70: So the usual way is that you dont care about distribution packaging, and make it the problem of some volunteer maintainer.
2021-10-26 15:44:10 +0200 <dminuoso> With some lucky you get them part of your project, such that you can coordinate releases
2021-10-26 15:45:17 +0200hyiltiz(~quassel@31.220.5.250)
2021-10-26 15:45:45 +0200jonathanx_(~jonathan@dyn-8-sc.cdg.chalmers.se) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-10-26 15:47:15 +0200justsomeguy(~justsomeg@user/justsomeguy) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-10-26 15:47:34 +0200Sgeo(~Sgeo@user/sgeo)
2021-10-26 15:48:36 +0200 <shapr> albet70: If you find more answers, will you post them somewhere?
2021-10-26 15:48:40 +0200 <kritzefitz> albet70: in case you want to make distribution specific packages you might want to take a look at cabal-debian, but that only gets you far if you already have debian packages for all your dependencies.
2021-10-26 15:49:18 +0200dschrempf(~dominik@2a01-036d-0118-8903-ec67-76f1-f11d-71a6.pool6.digikabel.hu) (Quit: WeeChat 3.3)
2021-10-26 15:50:27 +0200oxide(~lambda@user/oxide)
2021-10-26 15:50:37 +0200 <albet70> "🟢 shapr :albet70: If you find more answers, will you post them somewhere?", I think docker alpine musl is the best anwser, no need to post
2021-10-26 15:50:59 +0200 <shapr> albet70: fair enough
2021-10-26 15:51:30 +0200 <shapr> I'd like to have some automatic way to publish my Haskell programs to linux and mac
2021-10-26 15:52:11 +0200Pickchea(~private@user/pickchea) (Quit: Leaving)
2021-10-26 15:52:45 +0200 <albet70> "🟢 kritzefitz :albet70: in case you want to make distribution specific packages you might want to take a look at cabal-debian, but that only gets you far if you already have debian packages for all your dependencies.", does cabal has something like raco?
2021-10-26 15:53:05 +0200 <albet70> raco is a tool for racket to distribute binary file
2021-10-26 15:53:50 +0200chele_(~chele@user/chele)
2021-10-26 15:54:05 +0200 <kritzefitz> I don't know raco well enough to know for sure, but from your description it sounds like cabal doesn't have something like that.
2021-10-26 15:54:06 +0200chele(~chele@user/chele) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-10-26 15:54:30 +0200 <shapr> What does raco do?
2021-10-26 15:54:43 +0200 <shapr> does it create a static binary?
2021-10-26 15:55:08 +0200 <albet70> raco would create a package which contain libraries and binary
2021-10-26 15:55:16 +0200 <shapr> oh
2021-10-26 15:55:16 +0200 <merijn> The real problem isn't Haskell/GHC, but the fact that glibc refuses to be statically linked sanely
2021-10-26 15:56:46 +0200 <albet70> merijn, if glibc use statically linked, what is the bad for it? file size will be too big?
2021-10-26 15:56:47 +0200 <dminuoso> Oh it doesnt.
2021-10-26 15:56:52 +0200 <dminuoso> glibc happily statically links
2021-10-26 15:57:00 +0200Stotteren(~Stotteren@pool-108-20-79-41.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-10-26 15:57:05 +0200 <dminuoso> You get just error prone and undefined behavior if you use NSS or other things..
2021-10-26 15:57:09 +0200 <merijn> albet70: No, glibc is intentionally designed to behave badly/break when statically linked
2021-10-26 15:57:13 +0200 <dminuoso> Yup
2021-10-26 15:57:24 +0200Stotteren(~Stotteren@pool-108-20-79-41.bstnma.fios.verizon.net)
2021-10-26 15:57:40 +0200 <dminuoso> albet70: If you statically link against glibc and you use getaddrinfo from it, you *must* also dynamically load the same glibc version.
2021-10-26 15:57:41 +0200 <merijn> Because one of the core glibc maintainers is a fundamentalist who hates static linking for ideological reasons
2021-10-26 15:57:46 +0200 <dminuoso> albet70: just digest that for a moment.
2021-10-26 15:58:14 +0200 <dminuoso> statically linking glibc means you *must* have a dynamic variant of it of the same version around still in most cases.
2021-10-26 15:58:18 +0200shaprcannot digest, and must regurgitate
2021-10-26 15:59:33 +0200 <albet70> "merijn :Because one of the core glibc maintainers is a fundamentalist who hates static linking for ideological reasons", how Linus feel about this? support or disagree?
2021-10-26 15:59:57 +0200 <merijn> albet70: Linus is not involved at all?
2021-10-26 16:00:05 +0200 <dminuoso> albet70: The problem is this. The original author is largely known as an "dictator asshole" amongst many internet communities, for having extremely religious views on things. He really thinks its his place to educate people that static linking is so bad, that glibc was designed to make it as hard as possible.
2021-10-26 16:00:06 +0200 <albet70> ok
2021-10-26 16:00:09 +0200mc47(~mc47@xmonad/TheMC47)
2021-10-26 16:00:10 +0200 <shapr> oh my
2021-10-26 16:00:13 +0200 <merijn> Why would he be? He deals with linux and the kernel, not GNU and distro packaging
2021-10-26 16:00:31 +0200 <albet70> but this glibc is really effect lots of things in linux
2021-10-26 16:00:34 +0200 <dminuoso> albet70: https://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=10134
2021-10-26 16:00:40 +0200 <dminuoso> Take a good look at this bug report.
2021-10-26 16:00:43 +0200 <dminuoso> It's humerous but true.
2021-10-26 16:01:01 +0200jespada(~jespada@181.28.253.200) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2021-10-26 16:01:27 +0200jespada(~jespada@181.28.253.200)
2021-10-26 16:01:29 +0200marinelli(~marinelli@gateway/tor-sasl/marinelli)
2021-10-26 16:01:29 +0200jespada(~jespada@181.28.253.200) (Client Quit)
2021-10-26 16:02:11 +0200 <janus> but why does it matter what the original author (Drepper?) thinks when he doesn't have a commit bit anymore?
2021-10-26 16:02:47 +0200 <merijn> Pretty sure Drepper still maintains glibc
2021-10-26 16:05:05 +0200 <albet70> the other system like BSD or OSX, what they use? glibc?
2021-10-26 16:05:34 +0200 <merijn> They use their own libc
2021-10-26 16:05:39 +0200 <albet70> there're two things I hated in most linux distro, systemd and glibc
2021-10-26 16:05:56 +0200 <merijn> FreeBSD uses it's own libc and OSX uses a fork of that
2021-10-26 16:06:13 +0200 <albet70> they can do statically linked?
2021-10-26 16:06:22 +0200 <merijn> afaik
2021-10-26 16:08:13 +0200rekahsoft(~rekahsoft@cpe0008a20f982f-cm64777d666260.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)
2021-10-26 16:11:29 +0200justHaunt(~justache@user/justache) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-10-26 16:11:55 +0200bitdex(~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-10-26 16:12:25 +0200justHaunt(~justache@user/justache)
2021-10-26 16:12:56 +0200bitdex(~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex)
2021-10-26 16:13:29 +0200 <janus> there are also linux distros that use musl
2021-10-26 16:13:42 +0200 <albet70> "janus :there are also linux distros that use musl", alpine
2021-10-26 16:13:58 +0200 <albet70> most living in docker
2021-10-26 16:14:30 +0200 <albet70> not a real installed system on hard disk
2021-10-26 16:16:34 +0200yinzzz
2021-10-26 16:17:02 +0200acidjnk_new3(~acidjnk@p200300d0c7161c6868001932eceb2d10.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2021-10-26 16:17:17 +0200 <janus> albet70: what are you using now? since you write 'hated' in past tense
2021-10-26 16:17:35 +0200rekahsoft(~rekahsoft@cpe0008a20f982f-cm64777d666260.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-10-26 16:18:17 +0200 <zzz> is this an interesting idea? https://www.unisonweb.org/
2021-10-26 16:18:30 +0200 <janus> zzz: nope
2021-10-26 16:18:40 +0200 <albet70> "🟢 janus :albet70: what are you using now? since you write 'hated' in past tense", windows
2021-10-26 16:18:52 +0200 <shapr> oh my
2021-10-26 16:18:53 +0200 <zzz> janus: are you familiar with it?
2021-10-26 16:19:40 +0200 <janus> zzz: only superficially :P just thought i'd give a random answer to a random question, sorry.
2021-10-26 16:19:49 +0200 <zzz> fair enough :p
2021-10-26 16:21:08 +0200 <zzz> > Unison definitions are identified by content. Each Unison definition is some syntax tree, and by hashing this tree in a way that incorporates the hashes of all that definition's dependencies, we obtain the Unison hash which uniquely identifies that definition.
2021-10-26 16:21:10 +0200 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:89: error: parse error on input ‘,’
2021-10-26 16:21:15 +0200chomwitt(~chomwitt@2a02:587:dc12:b600:12c3:7bff:fe6d:d374) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-10-26 16:22:05 +0200 <janus> zzz: let's discuss it in #haskell-offtopic
2021-10-26 16:22:18 +0200 <zzz> janus: yeah that makes sense
2021-10-26 16:22:23 +0200 <zzz> sorry about that
2021-10-26 16:22:31 +0200stiell(~stiell@gateway/tor-sasl/stiell) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-10-26 16:22:55 +0200 <geekosaur> freebsd can do static libc. os x does dynamic everything
2021-10-26 16:23:15 +0200stiell(~stiell@gateway/tor-sasl/stiell)
2021-10-26 16:23:25 +0200 <geekosaur> you can't even get a static libSystem, iirc
2021-10-26 16:24:01 +0200tim1(~tim@dslb-088-070-254-249.088.070.pools.vodafone-ip.de) (WeeChat 3.3)
2021-10-26 16:24:06 +0200 <merijn> There isn't even a library file anymore :p
2021-10-26 16:24:21 +0200eggplantade(~Eggplanta@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:197f:30be:cf5f:af55)
2021-10-26 16:29:11 +0200eggplantade(~Eggplanta@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:197f:30be:cf5f:af55) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-10-26 16:30:40 +0200Gurkenglas(~Gurkengla@dslb-002-203-144-204.002.203.pools.vodafone-ip.de)
2021-10-26 16:32:08 +0200jonathanx(~jonathan@dyn-8-sc.cdg.chalmers.se)
2021-10-26 16:43:56 +0200 <janus> albet70: i'd like to learn about linking on windows. join me in #haskell-offtopic
2021-10-26 16:45:28 +0200 <dminuoso> Does sqlite-simple have an equivalent of the In newtype wrapper, to fit inside `WHERE x IN ?`
2021-10-26 16:46:33 +0200 <dminuoso> Oh hah hold on
2021-10-26 16:46:35 +0200 <dminuoso> sqlite cant do this
2021-10-26 16:47:22 +0200chomwitt(~chomwitt@ppp-94-68-249-8.home.otenet.gr)
2021-10-26 16:48:30 +0200 <merijn> dminuoso: Sure you can!
2021-10-26 16:48:32 +0200allbery_b(~geekosaur@xmonad/geekosaur)
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2021-10-26 16:48:46 +0200 <merijn> dminuoso: foreign export a haskell predicate function and inject it into your query!
2021-10-26 16:49:04 +0200 <merijn> And rewrite to "WHERE pred(x)" for an arbitrary predicate!
2021-10-26 16:50:00 +0200lavaman(~lavaman@98.38.249.169)
2021-10-26 16:50:18 +0200 <merijn> I haven't done it (yet), but I know enough that you can do it :p
2021-10-26 16:50:22 +0200cfricke(~cfricke@user/cfricke) (Quit: WeeChat 3.3)
2021-10-26 16:50:59 +0200 <dminuoso> o.o
2021-10-26 16:51:19 +0200 <dminuoso> merijn: That needs some custom ToField for that too I guess?>
2021-10-26 16:52:27 +0200 <merijn> dminuoso: I don't think you can do that it that way, tbh
2021-10-26 16:53:00 +0200 <merijn> dminuoso: But you can have your query calling arbitrary code in the same process, including whatever Haskell predicates you want :p
2021-10-26 16:53:22 +0200 <merijn> Whether it's worth the effort depends on the size of your query and how badly you need it over stringly manipulation of your where :p
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2021-10-26 17:23:55 +0200zzz(~z@user/zero) ()
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2021-10-26 17:28:51 +0200 <moonoid> Hi, I need a two dimensional Int matrix. Is Vector (Vector Int) a good idea or should I use another another package?
2021-10-26 17:29:10 +0200 <merijn> @hackage hmatrix -- ?
2021-10-26 17:29:10 +0200 <lambdabot> https://hackage.haskell.org/package/hmatrix -- ?
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2021-10-26 17:32:45 +0200 <moonoid> merijn: I did a bad job explaining. I'm a beginner and I'm familiar with the Vector api. Can I get away with representing an Int matrix as nested Vectors or will I soon run into trouble?
2021-10-26 17:33:06 +0200 <dminuoso> moonoid: depends (tm)
2021-10-26 17:33:14 +0200 <moonoid> :D
2021-10-26 17:33:27 +0200 <dminuoso> It all depends on what you intend to do
2021-10-26 17:33:28 +0200 <merijn> That, yes
2021-10-26 17:33:33 +0200 <adamCS> moonoid: https://hackage.haskell.org/package/massiv is also pretty good. Very much depends on what you need to do with the matrix, though.
2021-10-26 17:33:56 +0200 <dminuoso> If you're just dabbling with some excercise and you need to represent some 2 dimensional discrete space, a Vector of Vector is probably fine.
2021-10-26 17:34:08 +0200 <dminuoso> If you want to do linear algebra or some kind you probably to use hmatrix
2021-10-26 17:34:10 +0200 <merijn> hmatrix uses BLAS/LAPACK internally, so it'll be *much* faster for most non-trivial operations
2021-10-26 17:34:39 +0200 <merijn> If you just need a simple 2D array, I'd use either "Map (Int, Int) a" or Array
2021-10-26 17:35:16 +0200 <merijn> adamCS: No benchmarks comparing with hmatrix :(
2021-10-26 17:35:57 +0200jumper149(~jumper149@80.240.31.34) (Quit: WeeChat 3.2)
2021-10-26 17:37:06 +0200 <moonoid> For now I don't care about performance. I will give Map (Int,Int) a try.
2021-10-26 17:37:18 +0200 <adamCS> merijn: Yeah. I assume hmatrix would be faster for all the things where BLAS/LAPACK are in the critical path. But if you are doing all the low-level manipulation yourself, it's less clear. Benchmarks would be good.
2021-10-26 17:43:00 +0200Null_A(~null_a@2601:645:8700:2290:391b:b1e6:7bfa:182e)
2021-10-26 17:43:42 +0200 <monochrom> I have benchmarks comparing hmatrix with hmatrix. It says they perform the same. #identitymatrix >:)
2021-10-26 17:44:00 +0200SquareSqaure
2021-10-26 17:45:48 +0200 <xerox> moonoid: there's also Data.Array from the array package (and some variations on it)
2021-10-26 17:46:14 +0200 <xerox> dimensionality is achieved through Data.Ix
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2021-10-26 18:50:55 +0200zzz(~z@user/zero)
2021-10-26 18:51:27 +0200 <zzz> am i wrong to say that continuations are "closures"?
2021-10-26 18:51:41 +0200Anton-323(~Anton-323@2a05:7e83:3:539:9473:4114:36bf:424c)
2021-10-26 18:52:12 +0200 <geekosaur> they're one specific kind of closure
2021-10-26 18:53:17 +0200 <moonoid> Is it possible to call a Haskell script from the bash command line as if it were "cd" or "rm". So no specifying the path to the script and no "$ ghc ..."?
2021-10-26 18:55:42 +0200 <yushyin> moonoid: https://cabal.readthedocs.io/en/latest/cabal-commands.html#cabal-v2-run
2021-10-26 18:56:49 +0200 <geekosaur> not sure if runghc lets you have a #! line as the first line of the file…
2021-10-26 18:56:56 +0200 <yushyin> with one disadvantage, the compiled executable is not cached
2021-10-26 18:57:39 +0200guniberas(~guniberas@42.191.188.121) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-10-26 18:57:45 +0200 <merijn> moonoid: Kinda, but your probably don't want that as it'll be slow
2021-10-26 18:58:04 +0200 <merijn> moonoid: You'd wanna compile it once and then just use the result, tbh
2021-10-26 18:58:21 +0200jakalx(~jakalx@base.jakalx.net)
2021-10-26 18:59:10 +0200robosexual(~spaceoyst@88.85.216.62)
2021-10-26 18:59:24 +0200 <moonoid> yushyin: So the idea is that a globally accessible cabal cmd knows about this script?
2021-10-26 18:59:45 +0200 <moonoid> merijn: So basically make an executable and add the dir to PATH?
2021-10-26 18:59:50 +0200 <merijn> moonoid: Well, yes
2021-10-26 18:59:59 +0200 <merijn> Like in any other compiled language :p
2021-10-26 19:00:45 +0200 <moonoid> True but Haskell somehow feels special. ;)
2021-10-26 19:01:13 +0200 <geekosaur> not really
2021-10-26 19:01:21 +0200 <merijn> runghc and the cabal run shebang are possible options, but they're gonna be significantly slower
2021-10-26 19:01:29 +0200 <geekosaur> it's not that different from C / C++ in this regard
2021-10-26 19:02:11 +0200 <geekosaur> it feels different if what you're used to is js or python, I'll grant
2021-10-26 19:03:02 +0200 <merijn> geekosaur: I think he meant haskell doesn't feel like C :p
2021-10-26 19:03:34 +0200 <geekosaur> rust's crate might be closer?
2021-10-26 19:03:52 +0200 <geekosaur> I think they even borrowed some things from cabal
2021-10-26 19:08:55 +0200 <AWizzArd> Linear Types. Does it count as one use if I use a var in the Then branch and the Else branch of an IF?
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2021-10-26 19:19:49 +0200 <Franciman> yes AWizzArd
2021-10-26 19:20:25 +0200 <dminuoso> It'd be a bit strange if linear types couldn't even chase linearity through something as simple as if-then-else
2021-10-26 19:20:35 +0200 <Franciman> wait it depends
2021-10-26 19:20:45 +0200 <Franciman> do you use the linear variable in the if condition?
2021-10-26 19:20:56 +0200jokleinn(~jokleinn@user/jokleinn) (Quit: WeeChat 3.3)
2021-10-26 19:21:15 +0200 <Franciman> that would count as one usage :P
2021-10-26 19:21:18 +0200 <Franciman> asking for making sure
2021-10-26 19:21:33 +0200 <dminuoso> Mmmm https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/issues/19477
2021-10-26 19:24:15 +0200cheater(~Username@user/cheater) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-10-26 19:24:25 +0200cheater(~Username@user/cheater)
2021-10-26 19:25:14 +0200 <geekosaur> mm, I've been thinking it is getting to be time to take QualifiedDo to heart and just split up RebindableSyntax into its components
2021-10-26 19:25:26 +0200 <geekosaur> it's the modern -fglasgow-exts
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2021-10-26 19:27:14 +0200 <AWizzArd> Franciman: Not using it, yet, just wondering if it could do that. But as dminuoso said it would be strange if it couldn’t do this.
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2021-10-26 19:35:08 +0200neurocyte0132889(~neurocyte@185.117.68.82)
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2021-10-26 19:36:17 +0200slowtyper(~slowtyper@user/slowtyper)
2021-10-26 19:36:37 +0200 <merijn> btw, what's the term when numerical errors compound into a catastrophic error in the final result?
2021-10-26 19:38:37 +0200ubert(~Thunderbi@178.115.36.180.wireless.dyn.drei.com)
2021-10-26 19:39:21 +0200aegon(~mike@174.127.249.180)
2021-10-26 19:40:21 +0200 <geekosaur> "sadness"
2021-10-26 19:40:39 +0200 <merijn> actually "catastrophic error propagation" sounds good :p
2021-10-26 19:41:59 +0200 <Rembane_> CEP-flag
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2021-10-26 19:45:05 +0200Tuplanolla(~Tuplanoll@91-159-69-50.elisa-laajakaista.fi)
2021-10-26 19:49:34 +0200 <sm> moonoid: stack scripts are similar, but a little better: they cache the compiled version, and are more reproducible
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2021-10-26 20:01:33 +0200 <maerwald> for some very narrow meaning of reproducible :)
2021-10-26 20:01:54 +0200slowtyper(~slowtyper@user/slowtyper) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-10-26 20:02:23 +0200 <maerwald> but yeah, you probably can't use a freeze file with a cabal script
2021-10-26 20:02:48 +0200 <sclv> you just put the version bounds directly in the header
2021-10-26 20:02:49 +0200 <sclv> *shrug8
2021-10-26 20:03:36 +0200 <maerwald> that's not a freeze file
2021-10-26 20:04:07 +0200 <sclv> yes, but it freezes the deps nonetheless
2021-10-26 20:04:14 +0200 <maerwald> the direct dependencies only
2021-10-26 20:05:31 +0200 <monochrom> It is legal to include indirect dependencies.
2021-10-26 20:06:53 +0200 <maerwald> how would you expan them? :)
2021-10-26 20:07:03 +0200bitmapper(uid464869@id-464869.lymington.irccloud.com)
2021-10-26 20:07:36 +0200 <monochrom> "perseverence"
2021-10-26 20:08:02 +0200 <merijn> What's fancy math speak for the "parts" of a summation?
2021-10-26 20:08:12 +0200 <monochrom> summand
2021-10-26 20:08:28 +0200 <monochrom> terms
2021-10-26 20:08:34 +0200Midjak(~Midjak@82-65-111-221.subs.proxad.net) (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2021-10-26 20:08:43 +0200 <sclv> you can generate them by generating a freeze file and pasting the output in
2021-10-26 20:08:45 +0200 <merijn> summand is probably best
2021-10-26 20:08:56 +0200 <sclv> or a gen-bounds
2021-10-26 20:08:59 +0200 <monochrom> Ugh I was inconsistent. summand or term; summands or terms.
2021-10-26 20:09:11 +0200 <sclv> (actually gen-bounds only does direct, disregard)
2021-10-26 20:10:27 +0200 <monochrom> I hesitated to suggest "use cabal freeze" because it would defeat the point of being too lazy to write a *.cabal file :)
2021-10-26 20:12:06 +0200 <sm> yes, it is still quite hard to make a cabal script reproducible. The other part of it, mentioned here recently, is that it depends on you having done cabal update recently
2021-10-26 20:12:30 +0200 <sclv> i don't think "paste in the deps" is hard. *shrug*
2021-10-26 20:12:46 +0200 <sclv> i do think we should better document the grammar of the cabal header block
2021-10-26 20:12:52 +0200 <maerwald> how do you generate a freeze file without a cabal file?
2021-10-26 20:12:57 +0200 <sclv> i think its closer to a cabal.project than a cabal file, but ot sure
2021-10-26 20:13:22 +0200 <sclv> i didn't think the use case for scripts was "too lazy to generate a cabal file"
2021-10-26 20:13:44 +0200 <maerwald> yes that's the use case
2021-10-26 20:13:45 +0200 <sclv> i thought it was "ease of distribution"
2021-10-26 20:14:05 +0200 <geekosaur> scripts always struck me as a haskell source with a cabal file at the top
2021-10-26 20:14:12 +0200 <geekosaur> phrased a little differently
2021-10-26 20:14:31 +0200 <geekosaur> which doesn't seem very lazy
2021-10-26 20:14:34 +0200xlei(znc@pool-68-129-84-118.nycmny.fios.verizon.net)
2021-10-26 20:23:06 +0200slowtyper(~slowtyper@user/slowtyper)
2021-10-26 20:24:15 +0200 <shapr> speaking of which, I keep meaning to try https://github.com/BrianHicks/nix-script
2021-10-26 20:24:28 +0200slowtype-(~slowtyper@79.103.49.216.dsl.dyn.forthnet.gr) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-10-26 20:30:24 +0200 <sm> the idea of a script is "one file, just works"
2021-10-26 20:30:27 +0200 <sm> and secondly, "easier to make than a cabal project"
2021-10-26 20:30:36 +0200kupi(uid212005@id-212005.hampstead.irccloud.com) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2021-10-26 20:31:30 +0200 <sm> if you try shipping haskell code that just works, including for non-haskellers, you'll find all the pain points
2021-10-26 20:32:02 +0200 <maerwald> yeah, send them a nix config, haha
2021-10-26 20:35:03 +0200eggplantade(~Eggplanta@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:197f:30be:cf5f:af55)
2021-10-26 20:35:56 +0200superstar64(~superstar@2600:1700:ed80:50a0:d250:99ff:fe2c:53c4)
2021-10-26 20:37:47 +0200max22-(~maxime@2a01cb088335980019672c320416cfca.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2021-10-26 20:38:30 +0200dyeplexer(~dyeplexer@user/dyeplexer) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-10-26 20:38:58 +0200 <superstar64> How do I get hpc to work with cabal? I've tried running `cabal test --enable-coverage` but the pages it generates inside dist-newstyle are empty.
2021-10-26 20:40:56 +0200 <geekosaur> do you run the program to completion, or do you interrupt it somehow?
2021-10-26 20:41:30 +0200jespada(~jespada@181.28.253.200)
2021-10-26 20:42:20 +0200 <superstar64> It runs to completetion and cabal tells me that my tests pass and that the html files are written
2021-10-26 20:42:34 +0200 <maerwald> cabal version?
2021-10-26 20:42:48 +0200 <maerwald> I've never actually done this, will give it a go
2021-10-26 20:42:57 +0200moonoid(~a@p5b0627a9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Quit: WeeChat 3.0.1)
2021-10-26 20:43:17 +0200 <superstar64> cabal-install version 3.0.0.0
2021-10-26 20:43:24 +0200 <superstar64> compiled using version 3.0.1.0 of the Cabal library
2021-10-26 20:43:26 +0200 <maerwald> upgrade to something newer
2021-10-26 20:43:31 +0200 <maerwald> 3.4.1.0 or 3.6.2.0
2021-10-26 20:43:45 +0200 <maerwald> hunting bugs in legacy versions isn't worth it
2021-10-26 20:43:47 +0200jespada(~jespada@181.28.253.200) (Client Quit)
2021-10-26 20:43:52 +0200 <superstar64> It's the default on debian testing
2021-10-26 20:44:03 +0200 <maerwald> well
2021-10-26 20:44:14 +0200 <maerwald> https://www.haskell.org/ghcup/
2021-10-26 20:44:18 +0200 <maerwald> install something new
2021-10-26 20:46:13 +0200 <superstar64> How out of date is 3.0.0.0? debian testing is usually pretty new
2021-10-26 20:46:19 +0200 <maerwald> it's not new
2021-10-26 20:46:51 +0200 <maerwald> from 2019
2021-10-26 20:46:54 +0200 <maerwald> pre-covid
2021-10-26 20:47:17 +0200 <geekosaur> we're on 3.6.x now, this should say something
2021-10-26 20:47:32 +0200neurocyte0132889(~neurocyte@user/neurocyte) (Quit: The Lounge - https://thelounge.chat)
2021-10-26 20:49:31 +0200jespada(~jespada@181.28.253.200)
2021-10-26 20:49:55 +0200NieDzejkob(~quassel@212.87.13.106)
2021-10-26 20:50:10 +0200 <janus> i wonder if distros will ever admit that they just shouldn't try to package stuff they don't need for the system :P
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2021-10-26 20:51:08 +0200 <geekosaur> not as long as the distro repos are the first place people look for stuff
2021-10-26 20:52:46 +0200 <janus> i think the first place people look for stuff is using google ;) so they won't find https://www.debian.org/distrib/packages first
2021-10-26 20:53:12 +0200 <superstar64> I try to use debian's package manager when ever possible
2021-10-26 20:53:29 +0200burnsidesLlama(~burnsides@dhcp168-053.wadham.ox.ac.uk) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-10-26 20:53:38 +0200 <maerwald> well, good luck then :p
2021-10-26 20:53:43 +0200 <superstar64> A lot of cabal packages are actually on debian's repos
2021-10-26 20:53:48 +0200neurocyte0132889(~neurocyte@185.117.68.82)
2021-10-26 20:53:48 +0200neurocyte0132889(~neurocyte@185.117.68.82) (Changing host)
2021-10-26 20:53:48 +0200neurocyte0132889(~neurocyte@user/neurocyte)
2021-10-26 20:53:54 +0200 <maerwald> yeah, avoid those
2021-10-26 20:54:12 +0200 <superstar64> Why?
2021-10-26 20:54:19 +0200MQ-17J(~MQ-17J@2607:fb90:884d:3b56:d10e:dfdb:4d5e:86f1)
2021-10-26 20:55:12 +0200alx741(~alx741@181.196.69.72) (Quit: alx741)
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2021-10-26 20:55:58 +0200 <janus> because they are unmaintained as you can see
2021-10-26 20:56:12 +0200 <superstar64> Having it as a dpkg package actually uninstall it
2021-10-26 20:56:42 +0200 <superstar64> actually lets me uninstall things*
2021-10-26 20:57:31 +0200 <[exa]> superstar64: it's good for supporting the other debian packages, but if you need something a bit custom (bumping one version of something in the middle of dependency chain), you just can't
2021-10-26 20:58:39 +0200janiczek(~janiczek@89-24-215-117.customers.tmcz.cz)
2021-10-26 20:59:06 +0200 <[exa]> that said, it works (I'm keeping system pandoc installation that way), also for development, but there you're sooner or later going to hit a wall
2021-10-26 20:59:42 +0200 <merijn> having pandoc dependencies installed as separate debian package is a dumb ass decision anyway
2021-10-26 21:00:00 +0200 <merijn> They should just install the final static binary and not a 100+ transitive haskell dependencies as dynamic libs
2021-10-26 21:01:04 +0200 <geekosaur> debian's not the one that does that
2021-10-26 21:01:29 +0200 <geekosaur> they do have the poackages but that's because a system should be able to reproduce itself; thy're build-only deps
2021-10-26 21:01:51 +0200 <geekosaur> if you install pandoc you get only pandoc
2021-10-26 21:02:47 +0200marinelli(~marinelli@gateway/tor-sasl/marinelli) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2021-10-26 21:03:14 +0200 <[exa]> there's some debian policy that prevented this, but given the amount of software installed as static (mainly the venerable 450MB docker binary) I guess it could use an update
2021-10-26 21:03:16 +0200marinelli(~marinelli@gateway/tor-sasl/marinelli)
2021-10-26 21:03:24 +0200 <[exa]> geekosaur: wow is that a recent update?
2021-10-26 21:03:32 +0200zer0bitz(~zer0bitz@dsl-hkibng31-54fae3-116.dhcp.inet.fi) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-10-26 21:03:42 +0200 <geekosaur> I didn't get gallons of crap when I installed pandoc
2021-10-26 21:03:57 +0200 <geekosaur> that said I'm on ubuntu which might have altered that policy, I guess
2021-10-26 21:04:12 +0200 <[exa]> oh wow really, there we go 148M /usr/bin/pandoc
2021-10-26 21:04:13 +0200 <geekosaur> ut they certainly don't install stuff dynamically like arch does
2021-10-26 21:04:38 +0200 <janus> no, it's not just ubuntu, it also doesn't install all the deps on debian bullseye
2021-10-26 21:04:49 +0200raehik(~raehik@cpc95906-rdng25-2-0-cust156.15-3.cable.virginm.net)
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2021-10-26 21:05:57 +0200alx741(~alx741@181.196.69.72)
2021-10-26 21:09:46 +0200 <[exa]> ok cool, seems like I completely confused myself into believing that pandoc actually depends on that stuff
2021-10-26 21:10:02 +0200 <[exa]> what a great day to learn this.
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2021-10-26 22:06:44 +0200juhp(~juhp@128.106.188.220)
2021-10-26 22:09:27 +0200 <ski> merijn : fwiw, there's also "augend" (that which is added to) and "addend" (the thing to add)
2021-10-26 22:09:56 +0200mei(~mei@user/mei) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-10-26 22:10:08 +0200 <geekosaur> "augend" looks too much like "augeas"
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2021-10-26 22:12:16 +0200 <maerwald> so, how do you install ghcjs? Are there bindists?
2021-10-26 22:12:17 +0200 <merijn> ski: To fancy ;)
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2021-10-26 22:26:54 +0200 <ski> i'd only use "augend","addend", when there's a clear difference between the "absolute amount", and the "relative amount" added to it
2021-10-26 22:27:22 +0200 <ski> (e.g. adding a vector to a point. or adding a temperature difference to an absolute temperature, &c.)
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2021-10-26 23:32:32 +0200 <jackdk> Conduit question: I have a ConduitT () ByteString m r representing a large file, and I want to process it in chunks, where each chunk is between some minimum and maximum (constant) number of bytes. I feel like I would want to write a function like `chunksBetween :: Monad m => Integer -> Integer -> ConduitT i ByteString m r -> ConduitT i (ConduitT i ByteString m ()) m r` that streams smoothly from the input conduit.
2021-10-26 23:32:53 +0200gehmehgeh(~user@user/gehmehgeh) (Quit: Leaving)
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2021-10-26 23:33:53 +0200 <maerwald> jackdk: too bad you're not using streamly :D
2021-10-26 23:34:02 +0200 <maerwald> https://hackage.haskell.org/package/streamly-0.8.0/docs/Streamly-Prelude.html#v:chunksOf
2021-10-26 23:34:11 +0200 <jackdk> Pipes appears to have this operator in `pipes-group`, as some kind of crazy lens that lets you look at it as a `FreeT` or something, and I can't make heads or tails of it. Streaming looks like it could give you a `Stream (Of (Stream (Of o))`, which is what's driving my intuitions about where I want conduit to go. The other option would be conduit's connect-and-resume `SealedConduit` stuff, but the library I'm using only accepts a conduit
2021-10-26 23:35:20 +0200 <maerwald> jackdk: https://hackage.haskell.org/package/conduit-1.3.4.2/docs/Data-Conduit-Combinators.html#v:chunksOfE
2021-10-26 23:35:22 +0200 <maerwald> ?
2021-10-26 23:38:32 +0200 <juri_> hmm. if you've got a test suite written using quickcheck and `shouldbe` from hunit, is there a way, when a test is falsifiable, to see the sets of values that didn't fail?
2021-10-26 23:38:55 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
2021-10-26 23:39:31 +0200neotod(~manjaro-u@95.85.66.41)
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2021-10-26 23:41:52 +0200 <jackdk> maerwald: right, now the full hardmode context. I'm helping Axman6 with amazonka-s3-streaming. The high-level goal: create a multipart upload in S3, and perform upload part requests such that each chunk is between some minimum and maximum size. amazonka can accept a conduit describing the body to upload. This makes me think about generating a stream of conduits, where each one streams from the outer conduit with minimal rechunking
2021-10-26 23:42:10 +0200eggplantade(~Eggplanta@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:197f:30be:cf5f:af55)
2021-10-26 23:43:30 +0200 <maerwald> multipart upload works easier from the frontend side :p
2021-10-26 23:43:43 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-10-26 23:43:44 +0200 <jackdk> maerwald: ?
2021-10-26 23:43:58 +0200 <maerwald> yep, you can do multipart upload from the fronted to S3
2021-10-26 23:44:13 +0200 <maerwald> with a tokenish link
2021-10-26 23:44:19 +0200 <maerwald> I forgot the details
2021-10-26 23:44:21 +0200 <jackdk> I mean sure, but also this library is a tool that is useful to people
2021-10-26 23:44:26 +0200 <maerwald> yeah sure
2021-10-26 23:44:48 +0200 <maerwald> but it's less efficient, in a way
2021-10-26 23:45:02 +0200 <maerwald> because you stream to the backend and then from the backend to S3
2021-10-26 23:45:23 +0200ubert(~Thunderbi@178.115.36.180.wireless.dyn.drei.com) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-10-26 23:45:42 +0200 <jackdk> that's only if amazonka-s3-streaming is used in the context of a webapp, no?
2021-10-26 23:45:48 +0200 <maerwald> yeah
2021-10-26 23:46:05 +0200 <jackdk> we want minimal unnecessary rechunking at the S3 multipart upload level (so like if we're just under our target part size, just throw the next chunk in - don't split it), and also once the first part is uploaded, we need to be able to send the remainder of the conduit to the next part
2021-10-26 23:46:24 +0200 <jackdk> and do that without buffering an entire part's worth of chunks
2021-10-26 23:46:35 +0200eggplantade(~Eggplanta@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:197f:30be:cf5f:af55) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-10-26 23:47:07 +0200 <maerwald> yeah, I don't think that exists... there's only chunksOfE and chunksOfExactlyE
2021-10-26 23:48:01 +0200 <jackdk> juri_: I don't use quickcheck but is there a setting that controls general test verbosity? I wonder if the `shouldbe` stuff is a red herring?
2021-10-26 23:48:21 +0200 <maerwald> https://hackage.haskell.org/package/conduit-1.3.4.2/docs/src/Data.Conduit.Combinators.html#chunksOfE
2021-10-26 23:48:27 +0200 <maerwald> but you can probably just leverage the code
2021-10-26 23:49:37 +0200Null_A(~null_a@2601:645:8700:2290:391b:b1e6:7bfa:182e) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-10-26 23:49:54 +0200Null_A(~null_a@2601:645:8700:2290:391b:b1e6:7bfa:182e)
2021-10-26 23:54:30 +0200 <jackdk> right, but there are two levels of grouping going on here - I want to group the ByteStrings in such a way that I send between minPartSize and maxPartSize to each amazonka upload-part request. Then within each part, I want to emit at least minChunkSize chunks
2021-10-26 23:55:04 +0200fendor(~fendor@77.119.200.17.wireless.dyn.drei.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-10-26 23:55:57 +0200 <jackdk> and do this two-level grouping without buffering each part, and with a minimum of reallocations
2021-10-26 23:57:47 +0200jinsun(~quassel@user/jinsun) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)