IRCBrowse

2021/10/13

2021-10-13 00:01:07 +0200jgeerds(~jgeerds@55d4da80.access.ecotel.net) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-10-13 00:01:31 +0200TheCoffeMaker(~TheCoffeM@user/thecoffemaker) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-10-13 00:01:40 +0200xaotuk(~sasha@89.110.231.41) (Quit: xaotuk)
2021-10-13 00:04:14 +0200justsomeguy(~justsomeg@user/justsomeguy) (Quit: WeeChat 3.2)
2021-10-13 00:04:15 +0200TheCoffeMaker(~TheCoffeM@user/thecoffemaker)
2021-10-13 00:06:10 +0200favonia(~favonia@user/favonia) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-10-13 00:07:58 +0200ocramz_(~user@c80-216-51-213.bredband.tele2.se)
2021-10-13 00:08:10 +0200hyiltiz(~quassel@31.220.5.250) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-10-13 00:09:30 +0200 <zzz> have i mentioned WSL? oh i have... carry on
2021-10-13 00:10:10 +0200 <monochrom> WSL doesn't help build exes for Windows
2021-10-13 00:10:29 +0200hyiltiz(~quassel@31.220.5.250)
2021-10-13 00:10:30 +0200TheCoffeMaker(~TheCoffeM@user/thecoffemaker) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-10-13 00:11:58 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-10-13 00:12:13 +0200 <maerwald> if only one could reasonably cross-compile for windows
2021-10-13 00:12:15 +0200TheCoffeMaker(~TheCoffeM@user/thecoffemaker)
2021-10-13 00:13:07 +0200ocramz_(~user@c80-216-51-213.bredband.tele2.se) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-10-13 00:13:16 +0200 <zzz> monochrom: the point is to bypass windows completely
2021-10-13 00:13:19 +0200LiaoTao(~LiaoTao@gateway/tor-sasl/liaotao) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-10-13 00:13:48 +0200mestre(~mestre@191.177.175.57)
2021-10-13 00:13:51 +0200LiaoTao(~LiaoTao@gateway/tor-sasl/liaotao)
2021-10-13 00:14:06 +0200 <monochrom> That's probably not up to you are me to impose.
2021-10-13 00:14:14 +0200 <monochrom> err, s/are/or/
2021-10-13 00:14:53 +0200 <monochrom> <sarcastic>Sure, wouldn't the world be simpler if everyone did everything my way?</sarcastic>
2021-10-13 00:16:53 +0200mestre(~mestre@191.177.175.57) (Client Quit)
2021-10-13 00:17:22 +0200 <hpc> procrastination is compatible with all operating systems
2021-10-13 00:17:37 +0200 <jackdk> monochrom: I agree, the world would be simpler if everyone did everything my way.
2021-10-13 00:18:06 +0200 <int-e> operating systems do a ton of shit on demand
2021-10-13 00:20:34 +0200mestre(~mestre@191.177.175.57)
2021-10-13 00:20:46 +0200zebrag(~chris@user/zebrag) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-10-13 00:20:58 +0200zebrag(~chris@user/zebrag)
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2021-10-13 00:21:31 +0200 <maerwald> https://hastebin.com/raw/isugajeruh <- apparently that's the solution lol
2021-10-13 00:21:44 +0200 <maerwald> windows api is beautiful
2021-10-13 00:23:34 +0200bontaq(~user@ool-45779fe5.dyn.optonline.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-10-13 00:23:49 +0200DNH(~DNH@2a02:8108:1100:16d8:2011:9ad:7cba:6f6) (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
2021-10-13 00:23:56 +0200 <monochrom> Yikes haha handwritten GUID
2021-10-13 00:25:40 +0200ocramz_(~user@c80-216-51-213.bredband.tele2.se)
2021-10-13 00:26:15 +0200 <hpc> the guid format is already ridiculous, what's taking it a little bit further
2021-10-13 00:30:40 +0200ocramz_(~user@c80-216-51-213.bredband.tele2.se) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-10-13 00:30:50 +0200 <arahael> maerwald: I see that rule has been "deprecated" (that one you posted 30 min ago)
2021-10-13 00:34:58 +0200bitdex(~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex)
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2021-10-13 00:38:07 +0200[itchyjunk](~itchyjunk@user/itchyjunk/x-7353470) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
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2021-10-13 00:47:21 +0200[itchyjunk](~itchyjunk@user/itchyjunk/x-7353470)
2021-10-13 00:48:28 +0200analbleeding(6bbd1e16@67.205.143.82)
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2021-10-13 00:52:22 +0200analbleeding(6bbd1e16@67.205.143.82) (The Lounge - https://thelounge.chat)
2021-10-13 00:53:13 +0200jtomas_(~jtomas@95.red-88-11-64.dynamicip.rima-tde.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-10-13 00:54:03 +0200eggplantade(~Eggplanta@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:d130:ee1a:7e8:282d)
2021-10-13 00:55:00 +0200 <maralorn> Can someone tell me, what the Haskell equivalent of this function is? https://docs.rs/fork/0.1.18/fork/fn.daemon.html
2021-10-13 00:56:21 +0200ocramz_(~user@c80-216-51-213.bredband.tele2.se) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2021-10-13 00:56:51 +0200 <hpc> if you search "daemon" on hackage it'll probably come up
2021-10-13 01:01:40 +0200 <maralorn> hpc: thx. Apparently it’s System.Posix.Daemon.runDetached from deamons
2021-10-13 01:03:40 +0200wroathe(~wroathe@user/wroathe) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
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2021-10-13 01:04:25 +0200max22-(~maxime@lfbn-ren-1-762-224.w81-53.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-10-13 01:06:49 +0200emf(~emf@2620:10d:c090:400::5:a45e)
2021-10-13 01:07:13 +0200 <maralorn> Another question how can I get "exec" behavior in Haskell. I would like to terminate my process and run another command instead.
2021-10-13 01:07:51 +0200 <hpc> System.Process probably has it
2021-10-13 01:09:03 +0200 <hpc> you should spend some time just exploring hackage, looking for the usual things and neat other stuff
2021-10-13 01:09:26 +0200ocramz_(~user@c80-216-51-213.bredband.tele2.se)
2021-10-13 01:09:35 +0200 <hpc> like for arg parsing you can go the usual getopt way, or use optparse-applicative
2021-10-13 01:09:48 +0200 <maralorn> I looked through System.Process and I can‘t find it.
2021-10-13 01:09:49 +0200 <hpc> it'll answer a lot of these questions before you even know to ask them :D
2021-10-13 01:11:11 +0200 <hpc> ah, hmm
2021-10-13 01:12:20 +0200swistak(~swistak@185.21.216.141)
2021-10-13 01:12:38 +0200 <hpc> maybe the unix package?
2021-10-13 01:14:13 +0200 <maralorn> Hah, yeah. executeFile
2021-10-13 01:14:36 +0200 <maralorn> Not as flexible as I had hoped for, but better than nothing.
2021-10-13 01:14:47 +0200ocramz_(~user@c80-216-51-213.bredband.tele2.se) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-10-13 01:14:52 +0200 <sm> I see one in rio I think: https://hackage.haskell.org/package/rio-0.1.21.0/docs/RIO-Process.html#v:exec
2021-10-13 01:15:59 +0200 <hpc> it seems to be as powerful as execvpe
2021-10-13 01:16:33 +0200 <maralorn> Yeah, it can do what I want.
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2021-10-13 02:02:16 +0200CiaoSen(~Jura@p5dcc1303.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
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2021-10-13 02:16:08 +0200 <sm> ansi-terminal-game is in https://www.stackage.org/nightly-2021-10-12
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2021-10-13 03:20:44 +0200 <sm> and I have persuaded hls to work on my thing
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2021-10-13 03:45:18 +0200 <sm> oops. Wrong chan.
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2021-10-13 09:04:10 +0200arjun(~user@user/arjun)
2021-10-13 09:04:43 +0200 <arjun> uhm, so, what's the prefered way set bounds on the packages when starting a new project
2021-10-13 09:05:02 +0200 <arjun> can't really be manually go to hackage and check the latest version ?
2021-10-13 09:05:15 +0200 <arjun> RITE
2021-10-13 09:05:47 +0200brainfreeze(~brainfree@2a03:1b20:4:f011::20d) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2021-10-13 09:08:36 +0200nschoe(~quassel@178.251.84.79)
2021-10-13 09:08:57 +0200 <sm> arjun: it depends how much you want building your thing to be hassle-free
2021-10-13 09:09:01 +0200max22-(~maxime@lfbn-ren-1-762-224.w81-53.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2021-10-13 09:09:56 +0200 <sm> ..and compatible with a wide range of libs/ghcs
2021-10-13 09:11:06 +0200 <arjun> sm: lol wut
2021-10-13 09:11:47 +0200 <arjun> those both sound like good desirable things
2021-10-13 09:11:53 +0200 <sm> how much work do you want to put in ?
2021-10-13 09:12:01 +0200 <arjun> =.=
2021-10-13 09:12:33 +0200 <arjun> uhm, low - to fair amount i guess ?
2021-10-13 09:12:35 +0200 <sm> (as I'm writing, I'm realising it's not a simple topic)
2021-10-13 09:12:37 +0200ocramz_(~user@c80-216-51-213.bredband.tele2.se) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-10-13 09:13:36 +0200 <sm> it's a good idea prioritise. Focus on lower bounds, and the GHC version you're using, first
2021-10-13 09:14:26 +0200 <arjun> by manually going to hackage and checking the vesion number ?
2021-10-13 09:14:30 +0200 <sm> in fact, focus on base bounds (lower and upper) first. That also constrains the GHC version.
2021-10-13 09:14:52 +0200 <sm> https://wiki.haskell.org/Base_package tells which base versions go with which GHC
2021-10-13 09:14:57 +0200 <arjun> i meant to ask. that's how this stuff is usually done ?
2021-10-13 09:15:25 +0200 <arjun> i want say time, text, bytestring, optparse-applicative etc
2021-10-13 09:15:50 +0200 <arjun> i'd put them in cabal, and then lower bound them by hackage searches ?
2021-10-13 09:16:26 +0200 <sm> this is how I do it, but as I say there's quite a lot to it. I'd start with the GHC version you're using, and set base bounds that fit that. Then add some bounds to other deps. Prioritise the ones that have incompatible api changes more often.
2021-10-13 09:17:10 +0200 <sm> once you have a robust (tight) set of bounds, as you have time and desire you can test with older/newer versions of things and widen the bounds
2021-10-13 09:17:20 +0200chele(~chele@user/chele)
2021-10-13 09:17:26 +0200 <sm> that's the conservative, I-want-my-thing-to-always-build approach
2021-10-13 09:17:43 +0200 <sm> the other way is don't bother, add bounds when people report build failures
2021-10-13 09:20:11 +0200 <sm> some people take a middle road: provide a stack.yaml specifying a stackage snapshot, so even without bounds it's likely to build
2021-10-13 09:21:14 +0200azimut(~azimut@gateway/tor-sasl/azimut)
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2021-10-13 09:22:13 +0200 <sm> it's not the simplest of tasks, but with practice it gets easy. There might also be tools to help, but if so they're not much used
2021-10-13 09:22:17 +0200jonathanx__(~jonathan@dyn-8-sc.cdg.chalmers.se)
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2021-10-13 09:25:12 +0200 <sm> and yes, when choosing bounds for a package you'd look at its versions on hackage, and their upload dates and base bounds and especially the changelog
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2021-10-13 09:27:03 +0200hendursaga(~weechat@user/hendursaga)
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2021-10-13 09:27:12 +0200cross_(~cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net)
2021-10-13 09:27:19 +0200gehmehgeh(~user@user/gehmehgeh)
2021-10-13 09:27:20 +0200dtman34_(~dtman34@c-73-62-246-247.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
2021-10-13 09:27:22 +0200jacks2(~bc8165b6@217.29.117.252)
2021-10-13 09:27:24 +0200 <jacks2> hi
2021-10-13 09:27:28 +0200obfusk_(~quassel@a82-161-150-56.adsl.xs4all.nl)
2021-10-13 09:27:31 +0200Hafydd(~Hafydd@user/hafydd) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-10-13 09:27:53 +0200 <fawful> hello
2021-10-13 09:27:55 +0200 <jacks2> isn't it possible to derive Random for a simple sum type?
2021-10-13 09:27:57 +0200LiaoTao(~LiaoTao@gateway/tor-sasl/liaotao)
2021-10-13 09:28:10 +0200drlkf(~drlkf@2001:41d0:a:62bb::1) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-10-13 09:28:12 +0200 <jacks2> for example data T = Foo | Bar | Baz
2021-10-13 09:28:26 +0200vgtw_(~vgtw@c-6a60205c.07-348-756d651.bbcust.telenor.se)
2021-10-13 09:28:57 +0200 <jacks2> there were some deriving language extensions, but I can't google the extension name. maybe that would help
2021-10-13 09:28:58 +0200 <fawful> I'm new to haskell but I thought derive only worked for Show, Read, Ord, and a couple of others
2021-10-13 09:29:01 +0200ocramz_(~user@c80-216-51-213.bredband.tele2.se) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2021-10-13 09:29:28 +0200 <jacks2> I recall deriving Functor automatically a while ago, but I forgot what is the extension's name
2021-10-13 09:29:35 +0200Unode_(~Unode@194.94.44.220)
2021-10-13 09:29:46 +0200 <fawful> I think it's literally "derivingfunctor"
2021-10-13 09:29:54 +0200 <fawful> or something similar
2021-10-13 09:29:58 +0200pie__(~pie_bnc@user/pie/x-2818909)
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2021-10-13 09:32:08 +0200gehmehgeh(~user@user/gehmehgeh) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2021-10-13 09:32:51 +0200gehmehgeh(~user@user/gehmehgeh)
2021-10-13 09:33:18 +0200 <jacks2> ah
2021-10-13 09:33:21 +0200 <jacks2> {-# Language DeriveAnyClass #-}
2021-10-13 09:33:23 +0200 <jacks2> it works!
2021-10-13 09:33:34 +0200 <fawful> oh that's cool
2021-10-13 09:33:47 +0200 <jacks2> data Suit = Heart | Diamond | Spade | Club deriving (Show, Read, Eq, Ord, Bounded, Enum, Random)
2021-10-13 09:33:56 +0200Xnuk(~xnuk@45.76.202.58)
2021-10-13 09:35:00 +0200 <fawful> that seems like it would make playing around with simple types like taht soo much quicker
2021-10-13 09:35:15 +0200 <jacks2> yes
2021-10-13 09:35:44 +0200 <jacks2> I'm impressed, it even works for data Card = Card Rank Suit deriving (Show, Read, Eq, Ord, Bounded, Random)
2021-10-13 09:36:16 +0200energizer(~energizer@user/energizer)
2021-10-13 09:37:13 +0200stiell(~stiell@gateway/tor-sasl/stiell)
2021-10-13 09:37:22 +0200Ekho-Ekho
2021-10-13 09:37:37 +0200Cale(~cale@cpef48e38ee8583-cm0c473de9d680.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)
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2021-10-13 09:37:48 +0200mrmonday(~robert@what.i.hope.is.not.a.tabernaevagant.es)
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2021-10-13 09:37:48 +0200welterde(welterde@thinkbase.srv.welterde.de)
2021-10-13 09:38:02 +0200mrkajetanp_(~mrkajetan@2a01:4b00:ea36:6c00:7994:941c:3f5d:2b88) (Max SendQ exceeded)
2021-10-13 09:38:21 +0200mrkajetanp(~mrkajetan@88.98.245.28)
2021-10-13 09:38:25 +0200zaquest(~notzaques@5.128.210.178)
2021-10-13 09:38:26 +0200ocramz_(~user@c80-216-51-213.bredband.tele2.se)
2021-10-13 09:38:38 +0200 <jacks2> odd, it didn't actually work.
2021-10-13 09:38:44 +0200frobnicator(~frobnicat@185-227-75-147.dsl.cambrium.nl)
2021-10-13 09:39:01 +0200ysh(sid6017@id-6017.ilkley.irccloud.com)
2021-10-13 09:39:08 +0200tv(~tv@user/tv)
2021-10-13 09:39:09 +0200 <jacks2> No explicit implementation for �randomR� and �random� In the instance declaration for �Random Suit�
2021-10-13 09:39:26 +0200 <jacks2> and randomIO :: IO Suit gives me No instance nor default method for class operation random
2021-10-13 09:39:39 +0200 <jacks2> am I missing some additional code?
2021-10-13 09:40:36 +0200hyiltiz(~quassel@31.220.5.250)
2021-10-13 09:40:56 +0200 <lortabac> jacks2: DeriveAnyClass doesn't do anything special, it's just syntactic sugar for an empty instance declaration
2021-10-13 09:41:26 +0200 <jacks2> https://paste.tomsmeding.com/bjJ6XpZa
2021-10-13 09:41:27 +0200schuelermine[m](~schuelerm@user/schuelermine) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-10-13 09:41:27 +0200ormaaj(~ormaaj@user/ormaaj) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-10-13 09:41:30 +0200 <jacks2> lortabac oh
2021-10-13 09:41:38 +0200codygman[m](~codygman@2001:470:69fc:105::b4ba) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2021-10-13 09:41:38 +0200wysteriary[m](~wysteriar@2001:470:69fc:105::a42e) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2021-10-13 09:41:38 +0200IgnatInsarov[m](~kindaroma@2001:470:69fc:105::f5d9) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2021-10-13 09:41:38 +0200razor[m](~razormone@2001:470:69fc:105::f048) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2021-10-13 09:41:38 +0200zwro[m](~zwromatri@2001:470:69fc:105::1d4) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2021-10-13 09:41:38 +0200YoungChiefBTW(~youngchie@user/youngchiefbtw) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2021-10-13 09:41:47 +0200 <jacks2> so it only works with typeclasses that have default implementation
2021-10-13 09:41:48 +0200jesser[m](~jessermat@2001:470:69fc:105::d5ae) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-10-13 09:41:52 +0200 <lortabac> yes
2021-10-13 09:41:56 +0200ilkecan[m](~ilkecanma@2001:470:69fc:105::1:79b) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-10-13 09:41:56 +0200afotgkmnzj7asv3r(~afotgkmnz@2001:470:69fc:105::c24b) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-10-13 09:42:01 +0200xosdy[m](~xosdyalet@2001:470:69fc:105::31f7) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2021-10-13 09:42:01 +0200Deide(~deide@user/deide) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2021-10-13 09:42:32 +0200 <fawful> haskell is so cool
2021-10-13 09:42:35 +0200 <lortabac> also, DeriveAnyClass can be very confusing, please don't use it unless you make the strategy explicit with DerivingStrategies
2021-10-13 09:43:01 +0200 <jacks2> so what should I do, just manually implement Random instance? I can't take advantage of the fact that type is Enum and Bounded?
2021-10-13 09:43:19 +0200 <lortabac> but honestly I don't see the point of this extension, it just saves you a couple of characters
2021-10-13 09:43:44 +0200ocramz_(~user@c80-216-51-213.bredband.tele2.se) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-10-13 09:44:07 +0200 <fawful> are enum and bounded instances of random?
2021-10-13 09:44:42 +0200Kabouik(~Kabouik@user/kabouik) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-10-13 09:44:43 +0200 <jacks2> no. they are their own typeclasses. they allow you to do: [Heart .. Club] => [Heart,Diamond,Spade,Club]
2021-10-13 09:45:05 +0200porphyry(~porphyry@223.235.196.22)
2021-10-13 09:45:44 +0200 <lortabac> sorry I am not familiar with this library, maybe there is some function that helps you make a Random instance for types that are Enum and Bounded?
2021-10-13 09:45:46 +0200 <jacks2> or more generically, [minBound .. ] :: [Suit]
2021-10-13 09:45:59 +0200porphyry(~porphyry@223.235.196.22) ()
2021-10-13 09:46:04 +0200schuelermine[m](~schuelerm@user/schuelermine)
2021-10-13 09:46:48 +0200 <lortabac> anyway it should be easy to make one, thanks to Enum you can easily map an Int to a constructor
2021-10-13 09:46:54 +0200 <jacks2> yeah
2021-10-13 09:47:36 +0200wysteriary[m](~wysteriar@2001:470:69fc:105::a42e)
2021-10-13 09:47:37 +0200IgnatInsarov[m](~kindaroma@2001:470:69fc:105::f5d9)
2021-10-13 09:47:38 +0200codygman[m](~codygman@2001:470:69fc:105::b4ba)
2021-10-13 09:48:32 +0200wonko(~wjc@62.115.229.50)
2021-10-13 09:48:47 +0200 <fawful> I think I want to learn more about enum and bounded. I feel like they are exactly what I need for something
2021-10-13 09:49:18 +0200jesser[m](~jessermat@2001:470:69fc:105::d5ae)
2021-10-13 09:49:19 +0200razor[m](~razormone@2001:470:69fc:105::f048)
2021-10-13 09:49:42 +0200 <fawful> anyway just poking my head in, bye bye
2021-10-13 09:50:01 +0200 <jacks2> bye
2021-10-13 09:50:08 +0200pooryorick(~pooryoric@87-119-174-173.tll.elisa.ee)
2021-10-13 09:50:11 +0200fawful(~guy@c-76-104-217-93.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) (Quit: WeeChat 3.2)
2021-10-13 09:50:18 +0200zwro[m](~zwromatri@2001:470:69fc:105::1d4)
2021-10-13 09:52:08 +0200YoungChiefBTW(~youngchie@2001:470:69fc:105::214c)
2021-10-13 09:53:10 +0200ilkecan[m](~ilkecanma@2001:470:69fc:105::1:79b)
2021-10-13 09:53:10 +0200afotgkmnzj7asv3r(~afotgkmnz@2001:470:69fc:105::c24b)
2021-10-13 09:53:22 +0200kuribas(~user@2a02:1810:481b:1200:fc72:85c4:4606:568a)
2021-10-13 09:54:15 +0200xosdy[m](~xosdyalet@2001:470:69fc:105::31f7)
2021-10-13 09:54:22 +0200Deide(~deide@user/deide)
2021-10-13 09:54:45 +0200shriekingnoise_(~shrieking@186.137.144.80) (Quit: Quit)
2021-10-13 09:55:04 +0200Taneb0Taneb
2021-10-13 09:56:28 +0200ocramz_(~user@c80-216-51-213.bredband.tele2.se)
2021-10-13 09:58:49 +0200hyiltiz(~quassel@31.220.5.250) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-10-13 10:00:18 +0200shailangsa_(~shailangs@host217-39-45-200.range217-39.btcentralplus.com)
2021-10-13 10:01:10 +0200ocramz_(~user@c80-216-51-213.bredband.tele2.se) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-10-13 10:03:19 +0200jgeerds(~jgeerds@55d4da80.access.ecotel.net)
2021-10-13 10:03:19 +0200 <jacks2> I got it working. https://paste.tomsmeding.com/yZYEIvu9
2021-10-13 10:04:47 +0200 <jacks2> nd just as I posted, I figured I could replace genericRandom definition with: genericRandom = genericRandomR (minBound, maxBound)
2021-10-13 10:05:21 +0200Guest372(~xxx@47.245.54.240) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-10-13 10:05:48 +0200hendursa1(~weechat@user/hendursaga)
2021-10-13 10:06:28 +0200Guest372(~xxx@47.245.54.240)
2021-10-13 10:07:46 +0200tzh(~tzh@c-24-21-73-154.hsd1.or.comcast.net) (Quit: zzz)
2021-10-13 10:08:00 +0200hyiltiz(~quassel@31.220.5.250)
2021-10-13 10:08:39 +0200hendursaga(~weechat@user/hendursaga) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2021-10-13 10:09:45 +0200azeem(~azeem@2a00:801:447:9f40:238c:6510:b7a3:82be) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-10-13 10:10:25 +0200azeem(~azeem@emp-85-170.eduroam.uu.se)
2021-10-13 10:12:32 +0200 <jacks2> this is so cool.. :). allCards = (,) <$> [Two ..] <*> [Heart ..]
2021-10-13 10:13:02 +0200ocramz_(~user@c80-216-51-213.bredband.tele2.se)
2021-10-13 10:14:46 +0200 <cads> type Kaleidoscope a s = ProfOptic Any (->) Any (->) Applicative Nat Compose Identity App App a a s s
2021-10-13 10:15:13 +0200cadsproposes we should call this a thick type, because it has that a a s s
2021-10-13 10:15:13 +0200benin(~benin@183.82.29.30)
2021-10-13 10:15:54 +0200econo(uid147250@user/econo) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2021-10-13 10:15:57 +0200cfricke(~cfricke@user/cfricke)
2021-10-13 10:16:00 +0200 <cads> in other news how can a type be this unspeakably cursed / how can we rewrite this sort of thing to be more prosaic and readable?
2021-10-13 10:16:22 +0200ocramz_(~user@c80-216-51-213.bredband.tele2.se) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-10-13 10:16:26 +0200 <cads> more fun examples here: https://github.com/maxsu/vitrea/blob/master/source/Optics.hs
2021-10-13 10:17:13 +0200 <cads> I guess part of why this seems so cursed, on the surface, is that tambara modules are at play, and those are pretty cursed, from a syntax perspective
2021-10-13 10:18:49 +0200benin0(~benin@183.82.29.30)
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2021-10-13 10:19:02 +0200integral(sid296274@user/integral) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-10-13 10:19:02 +0200systemfault(sid267009@uxbridge.irccloud.com) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
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2021-10-13 10:19:09 +0200rune(sid21167@id-21167.ilkley.irccloud.com)
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2021-10-13 10:19:10 +0200lightandlight(sid135476@id-135476.helmsley.irccloud.com)
2021-10-13 10:19:10 +0200ephemient(uid407513@id-407513.lymington.irccloud.com)
2021-10-13 10:19:10 +0200angerman(sid209936@id-209936.ilkley.irccloud.com)
2021-10-13 10:19:10 +0200hamishmack(sid389057@id-389057.hampstead.irccloud.com)
2021-10-13 10:19:10 +0200evertedsphere(sid434122@id-434122.hampstead.irccloud.com)
2021-10-13 10:19:11 +0200bjs(sid190364@user/bjs) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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2021-10-13 10:19:15 +0200bw(sid2730@user/betawaffle) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-10-13 10:19:15 +0200NiKaN(sid385034@helmsley.irccloud.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-10-13 10:19:23 +0200bjs(sid190364@user/bjs)
2021-10-13 10:19:23 +0200Pent(sid313808@id-313808.lymington.irccloud.com)
2021-10-13 10:19:25 +0200systemfault(sid267009@id-267009.uxbridge.irccloud.com)
2021-10-13 10:19:28 +0200integral(sid296274@user/integral)
2021-10-13 10:19:40 +0200djanatyn(~djanatyn@vps-7f49a6b0.vps.ovh.ca)
2021-10-13 10:19:48 +0200allbery_b(~geekosaur@xmonad/geekosaur)
2021-10-13 10:19:48 +0200geekosaur(~geekosaur@xmonad/geekosaur) (Killed (NickServ (GHOST command used by allbery_b)))
2021-10-13 10:19:51 +0200allbery_bgeekosaur
2021-10-13 10:19:53 +0200NiKaN(sid385034@id-385034.helmsley.irccloud.com)
2021-10-13 10:19:55 +0200 <cads> but I feel like there should be some way to refactor these types so that they don't just read like raging hell symbols
2021-10-13 10:20:07 +0200LiaoTao_(~LiaoTao@gateway/tor-sasl/liaotao)
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2021-10-13 10:27:00 +0200benin(~benin@183.82.29.30) (*.net *.split)
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2021-10-13 10:27:00 +0200mrmonday(~robert@what.i.hope.is.not.a.tabernaevagant.es) (*.net *.split)
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2021-10-13 10:27:01 +0200Flow(~none@gentoo/developer/flow) (*.net *.split)
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2021-10-13 10:27:01 +0200benin0benin
2021-10-13 10:27:18 +0200 <cads> here is an another example of a more primitive code listing written in what I'll call this "profunctorially hectic" style. It /should/ be easier to understand https://github.com/maxsu/vitrea/blob/master/source/CategoriesInstances.hs
2021-10-13 10:28:14 +0200ellie(~ellie@user/ellie)
2021-10-13 10:28:19 +0200m1dnight(~christoph@188.ip-51-91-158.eu) (Client Quit)
2021-10-13 10:28:23 +0200 <cads> What could I do to improve the code? One idea is that I could research and document the undocumented instances.
2021-10-13 10:28:23 +0200jakesyl_(sid56879@id-56879.hampstead.irccloud.com)
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2021-10-13 10:33:42 +0200mrmonday(~robert@what.i.hope.is.not.a.tabernaevagant.es)
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2021-10-13 11:00:21 +0200 <kuribas> jacks2: welcome to haskell :)
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2021-10-13 11:06:38 +0200shailangsa_(~shailangs@host217-39-45-200.range217-39.btcentralplus.com) ()
2021-10-13 11:06:57 +0200eggplantade(~Eggplanta@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:d130:ee1a:7e8:282d) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-10-13 11:07:29 +0200pretty_dumm_guy(trottel@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/prettydummguy/x-88029655)
2021-10-13 11:11:11 +0200famubu(~famubu@user/famubu)
2021-10-13 11:12:03 +0200 <famubu> i was trying to a 'shift' an ascii character by a specified number of positions (like a caesar cipher for a single character) and came up with `shift ch n = chr ((mod (((ord ch) - (ord 'a')) + n) 26) + (ord 'a'))`
2021-10-13 11:12:15 +0200 <famubu> Is there a way to reduce the number of parenthesis here?
2021-10-13 11:12:16 +0200 <kuribas> Does there exist a Monad over Categories? Then bind' :: someCat (m a) (someCat (someCat a (m b)) (m b))
2021-10-13 11:13:01 +0200 <famubu> Had heard of `$` but couldn't figure out how it would be used when there are functions with multiple arguments.
2021-10-13 11:13:23 +0200 <dminuoso> cads: You can take a look at optics to get an idea, perhaps
2021-10-13 11:13:30 +0200 <kuribas> famubu: shift ch n = chr $ (ord ch - ord 'a' + n) `mod` 26 + ord 'a'
2021-10-13 11:14:58 +0200 <famubu> kuribas: Thanks. Much more readable now.
2021-10-13 11:15:01 +0200 <famubu> Would there be any advantage in moving the `ord 'a'` part into a `let variable in` section?
2021-10-13 11:15:30 +0200 <nshepperd2> kuribas: i think that `mod` is going to have the wrong precedence there...
2021-10-13 11:15:52 +0200tcard(~tcard@p2878075-ipngn18701hodogaya.kanagawa.ocn.ne.jp) (Quit: Leaving)
2021-10-13 11:15:57 +0200 <kuribas> :i mod
2021-10-13 11:16:01 +0200 <jacks2> kuribas thanks. I am not that new actually, just don't use haskell regularly, and I enjoy seeing concise code like that
2021-10-13 11:16:09 +0200 <nshepperd2> oh, it has an explicit infixl, huh
2021-10-13 11:16:37 +0200 <kuribas> "infixl 7 `mod`" "infixl 6 +"
2021-10-13 11:17:02 +0200 <kuribas> nshepperd2: otherwise infix is more tight, no?
2021-10-13 11:18:08 +0200 <nshepperd2> > 5 `mod` 2 + 3
2021-10-13 11:18:10 +0200 <lambdabot> 4
2021-10-13 11:18:35 +0200 <nshepperd2> scary
2021-10-13 11:18:42 +0200 <kuribas> > let foo = mod in 5 `foo` 2 + 3
2021-10-13 11:18:44 +0200 <lambdabot> 4
2021-10-13 11:19:27 +0200 <kuribas> nshepperd2: so it would only fail if mod was made explicitly less strong than (+)
2021-10-13 11:19:44 +0200 <kuribas> but mod has same fixity as (*)
2021-10-13 11:20:04 +0200tcard(~tcard@p2878075-ipngn18701hodogaya.kanagawa.ocn.ne.jp)
2021-10-13 11:20:44 +0200 <kuribas> but if it is hard to reason about fixity, maybe parens are better.
2021-10-13 11:20:47 +0200 <nshepperd2> i thought `backticks` were pretty low precedence by default
2021-10-13 11:21:26 +0200 <nshepperd2> apparently not
2021-10-13 11:21:52 +0200werneta(~werneta@70-142-214-115.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-10-13 11:24:43 +0200 <kuribas> nope, high precendence :)
2021-10-13 11:25:53 +0200 <cads> dminuoso, there's still a lot of cryptic types here
2021-10-13 11:25:59 +0200 <cads> default conjoined__ :: Coercible (p i s t) (p j s t) => (p i a b -> p i s t) -> (p i a b -> p j s t) -> (p i a b -> p j s t)
2021-10-13 11:26:36 +0200 <cads> the only thing I understand about this code is the (p i s t) part, because that is the emotion I feel when I see this sort of code, lol
2021-10-13 11:30:33 +0200obviyus_(sid415299@2a03:5180:f:5::6:5643) (Changing host)
2021-10-13 11:30:33 +0200obviyus_(sid415299@user/obviyus)
2021-10-13 11:30:58 +0200 <kuribas> nshepperd2: higher than any operator IIRC
2021-10-13 11:31:11 +0200obviyus_(sid415299@user/obviyus) ()
2021-10-13 11:31:32 +0200obviyus_(sid415299@id-415299.uxbridge.irccloud.com)
2021-10-13 11:34:24 +0200 <dminuoso> cads: Not in optics
2021-10-13 11:34:27 +0200 <arjun> sm: turns out you can just name build depends without bounds and install
2021-10-13 11:34:29 +0200 <dminuoso> cads: There it's `conjoined :: forall (is :: IxList) i k s t a b . HasSingleIndex is i => Optic k NoIx s t a b -> Optic k is s t a b -> Optic k is s t a b`
2021-10-13 11:34:33 +0200 <arjun> and then run cabal gen-bounds
2021-10-13 11:34:38 +0200 <dminuoso> Which is fairly well readable
2021-10-13 11:34:50 +0200bw__(sid2730@2a03:5180:f:3::aaa) ()
2021-10-13 11:35:21 +0200bw__(sid2730@id-2730.ilkley.irccloud.com)
2021-10-13 11:35:36 +0200 <sm> arjun: nice, did it work well ?
2021-10-13 11:36:05 +0200 <arjun> sm: it did for what i had.
2021-10-13 11:36:16 +0200 <arjun> i had half of them bounded and half just named
2021-10-13 11:36:21 +0200 <arjun> it bounded all
2021-10-13 11:36:27 +0200 <cads> dminuoso, that I think I can agree with. It uses a meaningful constructor Optic, rather than the anonymous p
2021-10-13 11:36:38 +0200 <arjun> i'll have to try with all of them unbounded and see if _that_ workds
2021-10-13 11:37:08 +0200bw__bw
2021-10-13 11:37:10 +0200 <cads> Coercible (prof i s t) (prof j s t) => (prof i a b -> prof i s t) -> (prof i a b -> prof j s t) -> (prof i a b -> prof j s t)
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2021-10-13 11:37:27 +0200 <dminuoso> cads: Arguably, you can even sort of deduce its behavior from the type!
2021-10-13 11:37:44 +0200 <cads> ^ I feel even this would be an improvement
2021-10-13 11:37:45 +0200 <sm> from https://cabal.readthedocs.io/en/latest/cabal-package.html?highlight=gen-bounds#generating-dependen… it seems to expand pinned versions to full major version ranges. Does it do more than that ?
2021-10-13 11:38:12 +0200 <cads> though it stretches my ability to "book-keep" that index type
2021-10-13 11:38:31 +0200 <sm> it picks the latest major version I guess ?
2021-10-13 11:39:26 +0200 <sm> that sounds useful, even if you might want to expand the range later
2021-10-13 11:43:09 +0200shailangsa(~shailangs@host217-39-45-200.range217-39.btcentralplus.com)
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2021-10-13 11:43:54 +0200 <cads> dminuoso, I just finished the second read of the type you displayed, and I think I'm at 30% comprehension. Now I am trying to understand forall (is :: IxList) i k s t a b. I will assume that the ikstab in question is the corona vaccine, and the statement is really a statement about lens mappings between different classes of antivaxxers
2021-10-13 11:44:17 +0200 <cads> So that forall is just quantifying over all these variables, plus constraining the `is` variable to be an IxList
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2021-10-13 11:48:13 +0200notzmv(~zmv@user/notzmv)
2021-10-13 11:48:51 +0200 <cads> then, if the IxList has a single index x, we have a function that takes an unindexed optic and an is-indexed optic with otherwise matching type parameters, and returns an is-indexed optic with the same other type parameters
2021-10-13 11:49:38 +0200agile`(~user@185-11-210-43.s1networks.fi)
2021-10-13 11:50:08 +0200 <cads> I think I'm at 50% understanding now - I have to learn about ixlists, the NoIx constant, and the Optic constructor
2021-10-13 11:50:33 +0200agile`(~user@185-11-210-43.s1networks.fi) ()
2021-10-13 11:52:52 +0200agile(~user@185-11-210-43.s1networks.fi)
2021-10-13 11:54:13 +0200 <cads> dminuoso, could we take `Optic k NoIx s t a b -> Optic k is s t a b -> Optic k is s t a b` and write it as `NoIndexOptic -> IndexedOptic -> IndexedOptic where NoIndexOptic = k NoIx s t a b, IndexedOptic = Optic k is s t a b` ?
2021-10-13 11:54:49 +0200 <cads> err
2021-10-13 11:55:06 +0200 <cads> that would be `NoIndexOptic = Optic k NoIx s t a b`
2021-10-13 11:57:15 +0200agile(~user@185-11-210-43.s1networks.fi) (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 27.2))
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2021-10-13 11:58:22 +0200 <cads> I think in the end it's more characters, but could make the line easier to interpret by itself. I would see `NoIndexOptic -> IndexedOptic -> IndexedOptic` and think 'oh, it's a function between these things the author is temporarily calling indexed and noindex optics
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2021-10-13 11:59:24 +0200 <cads> then I would look to the next lines and see the types of NoIndexOptic and IndexedOptic, which would hopefully be easier, because I've been prompted to think about indexes
2021-10-13 12:00:21 +0200_xor(~xor@72.49.199.147)
2021-10-13 12:01:14 +0200 <jacks2> what's the proper syntax? foo :: forall a. (T1 a, T2 m) => String -> m a?
2021-10-13 12:01:31 +0200 <jacks2> I am getting Not in scope: type variable �m�
2021-10-13 12:02:17 +0200 <cads> how are you currently quantifying over m?
2021-10-13 12:02:57 +0200 <cads> I see that you are constraining m to be in typeclass T2, right? But where is m being introduced as a type variable?
2021-10-13 12:03:25 +0200hyiltiz(~quassel@31.220.5.250) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-10-13 12:03:39 +0200Farzad(~FarzadBek@178.131.31.129)
2021-10-13 12:03:42 +0200jchia[m](~jchiamatr@2001:470:69fc:105::c50b)
2021-10-13 12:04:16 +0200xff0x(~xff0x@2001:1a81:53d3:ff00:e392:be3b:ed73:128b) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-10-13 12:05:11 +0200lavaman(~lavaman@98.38.249.169)
2021-10-13 12:05:11 +0200xff0x(~xff0x@2001:1a81:53d3:ff00:3e1e:c821:8716:28f6)
2021-10-13 12:05:21 +0200akspecs__(~akspecs@user/akspecs) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-10-13 12:05:22 +0200hyiltiz(~quassel@31.220.5.250)
2021-10-13 12:05:57 +0200 <cads> > type foo :: forall a. (T1 a, T2 m) => String -> m a
2021-10-13 12:05:58 +0200 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:1: error: parse error on input ‘type’
2021-10-13 12:06:04 +0200akspecs__(~akspecs@136-24-181-20.cab.webpass.net)
2021-10-13 12:06:05 +0200akspecs__(~akspecs@136-24-181-20.cab.webpass.net) (Changing host)
2021-10-13 12:06:05 +0200akspecs__(~akspecs@user/akspecs)
2021-10-13 12:06:12 +0200 <cads> > type foo :: forall a, m. (T1 a, T2 m) => String -> m a
2021-10-13 12:06:14 +0200 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:1: error: parse error on input ‘type’
2021-10-13 12:06:18 +0200dualinverter[m](~dualinver@2001:470:69fc:105::16a7)
2021-10-13 12:06:20 +0200MatrixTravelerbo(~voyagert2@2001:470:69fc:105::22)
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2021-10-13 12:06:27 +0200thomasjm[m](~thomasjmm@2001:470:69fc:105::c6d9)
2021-10-13 12:06:40 +0200 <cads> jacks2, help :(
2021-10-13 12:06:48 +0200ru0mad[m](~ru0madmat@2001:470:69fc:105::9b2)
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2021-10-13 12:07:26 +0200amesgen[m](~amesgenm]@2001:470:69fc:105::82b)
2021-10-13 12:07:26 +0200the-coot[m](~the-cootm@2001:470:69fc:105::95f)
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2021-10-13 12:07:37 +0200 <cads> I think the second line will typecheck, but I don't know how to get labmdabot to confirm this
2021-10-13 12:07:38 +0200soft(~soft-matr@2001:470:69fc:105::c75)
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2021-10-13 12:09:42 +0200lavaman(~lavaman@98.38.249.169) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
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2021-10-13 12:10:57 +0200cloudy(~cloudy@2001:470:69fc:105::50c0)
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2021-10-13 12:10:57 +0200fendor[m](~fendormat@2001:470:69fc:105::fcbd)
2021-10-13 12:10:57 +0200aidy(~aidy@2001:470:69fc:105::c7b4)
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2021-10-13 12:11:09 +0200TomasJakl[m](~jaklttchn@2001:470:69fc:105::a42)
2021-10-13 12:11:10 +0200superbil(~superbil@1-34-176-171.hinet-ip.hinet.net) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-10-13 12:11:22 +0200ilkecan[m](~ilkecanma@2001:470:69fc:105::1:79b)
2021-10-13 12:11:22 +0200tsmc[m](~tsmcmatri@2001:470:69fc:105::1:7e1)
2021-10-13 12:11:30 +0200 <jacks2> I don't know how to introduce T2 with forall syntax
2021-10-13 12:11:35 +0200superbil(~superbil@1-34-176-171.hinet-ip.hinet.net)
2021-10-13 12:11:37 +0200codygman[m](~codygman@2001:470:69fc:105::b4ba)
2021-10-13 12:11:49 +0200xosdy[m](~xosdyalet@2001:470:69fc:105::31f7)
2021-10-13 12:11:49 +0200vaibhavsagar[m](~vaibhavsa@2001:470:69fc:105::ffe)
2021-10-13 12:11:49 +0200santiagopim[m](~santiagop@2001:470:69fc:105::e57d)
2021-10-13 12:11:50 +0200 <jacks2> ^^ cads
2021-10-13 12:11:58 +0200eggplantade(~Eggplanta@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:ac5a:4bd6:3f7c:fb35) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-10-13 12:12:01 +0200Tavi[m](~factoidde@2001:470:69fc:105::1:819)
2021-10-13 12:12:01 +0200mekeor[m](~mekeormat@2001:470:69fc:105::17e4)
2021-10-13 12:12:01 +0200jmcantrell(~jmcantrel@user/jmcantrell)
2021-10-13 12:12:01 +0200maerwald[m](~maerwaldm@2001:470:69fc:105::1ee)
2021-10-13 12:12:13 +0200RosarioPulella[m(~rosariopu@2001:470:69fc:105::a57)
2021-10-13 12:12:13 +0200ftzm[m](~ftzmmatri@2001:470:69fc:105::1:dfc)
2021-10-13 12:12:13 +0200wildsebastian(~wildsebas@2001:470:69fc:105::1:14b1)
2021-10-13 12:12:13 +0200jinsun_(~jinsun@user/jinsun)
2021-10-13 12:13:09 +0200cheater(~Username@user/cheater) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-10-13 12:13:34 +0200 <jacks2> I used to have just (T1 a, T2 m) => String -> m a, but I need to use forall syntax because I am using ScopedTypeVariables
2021-10-13 12:13:35 +0200xff0x(~xff0x@2001:1a81:53d3:ff00:3e1e:c821:8716:28f6) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-10-13 12:15:13 +0200arjun(~user@103.57.87.77)
2021-10-13 12:16:43 +0200betelgeuse(~betelgeus@94-225-47-8.access.telenet.be) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2021-10-13 12:18:06 +0200 <cads> jacks2, I don't know about scoped type variables. However, the compiler is complaining about not finding m. Have you tried including m in the forall, like forall a m. (T1 a, T2 m) => String -> m a ?
2021-10-13 12:18:39 +0200azimut(~azimut@gateway/tor-sasl/azimut) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2021-10-13 12:18:46 +0200 <jacks2> that was it! thanks
2021-10-13 12:19:31 +0200 <cads> also, can you write forall (a::T1) (m::T2). String -> m a ?
2021-10-13 12:19:38 +0200azimut(~azimut@gateway/tor-sasl/azimut)
2021-10-13 12:20:07 +0200 <cads> I'm too lazy to install haskell or learn how to talk to lambdabot, so if you'll allow, I am using use as my interactive haskell interpreter
2021-10-13 12:20:11 +0200cheater(~Username@user/cheater)
2021-10-13 12:20:27 +0200xff0x(~xff0x@2001:1a81:53d3:ff00:3e1e:c821:8716:28f6)
2021-10-13 12:20:43 +0200rembo10(~rembo10@remulis.com) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-10-13 12:20:46 +0200 <jacks2> no. it asked for a bunch of extensions, and then gave a cryptic error
2021-10-13 12:20:59 +0200rembo10(~rembo10@remulis.com)
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2021-10-13 12:25:40 +0200 <cads> Oh, right, the library I am looking at is rocking extensions that let it use that a constrained forall quantifier.
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2021-10-13 12:43:56 +0200 <kuribas> Is there liftIO for applicatives?
2021-10-13 12:43:59 +0200abrantesasf(~abrantesa@187.36.170.211)
2021-10-13 12:44:03 +0200 <kuribas> as in Applicatives which aren't Monads?
2021-10-13 12:44:22 +0200gawen_(~gawen@user/gawen)
2021-10-13 12:44:41 +0200gawen(~gawen@user/gawen) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2021-10-13 12:45:07 +0200 <dminuoso> What would that mean?
2021-10-13 12:45:07 +0200timCF(~timCF@200-149-20-81.sta.estpak.ee)
2021-10-13 12:45:16 +0200 <kuribas> https://stackoverflow.com/questions/26064297/is-there-an-applicativeio-class/26070251#26070251
2021-10-13 12:45:19 +0200 <dminuoso> kuribas: IO is inherently monadic.
2021-10-13 12:45:32 +0200 <kuribas> dminuoso: it's also inherently Applicative :)
2021-10-13 12:45:57 +0200 <timCF> Hello! Is there any way to have some extension globally in default-extensions, but disable just in one particular file?
2021-10-13 12:46:24 +0200 <kuribas> hmm: "So, even in a world with AMP, ApplicativeIO m and MonadIO m are really different things, even when m is a Monad"
2021-10-13 12:47:23 +0200 <timCF> I have a problem with StrictData in one particular file, but I still like how it works and want data be strict by default in other files https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/issues/16141
2021-10-13 12:47:27 +0200 <kuribas> dminuoso: but yeah, it probably would not order the IO actions...
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2021-10-13 12:49:38 +0200 <kuribas> dminuoso: wait, Applicative actions can be ordered. They just cannot depend on each other.
2021-10-13 12:50:09 +0200 <dminuoso> kuribas: I see, so you're asking for a generalization of say `cacheResult :: Request r a => r a -> IO a -> GenHaxl u w a`?
2021-10-13 12:52:20 +0200 <kuribas> dminuoso: yeah, that was actually my usecase :)
2021-10-13 12:52:38 +0200 <kuribas> well, not using Haxl
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2021-10-13 13:03:47 +0200 <byorgey> timCF: you should be able to enable StrictData in default-extensions and then say {-# LANGUAGE NoStrictData #-} in the one file
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2021-10-13 13:04:49 +0200 <timCF> byorgey: That's what I needed, thanks a lot!
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2021-10-13 13:27:21 +0200 <lortabac> kuribas: you can use 'Compose IO MyType'
2021-10-13 13:27:42 +0200 <kuribas> lortabac: but that's a different type :)
2021-10-13 13:27:55 +0200 <kuribas> lortabac: MonadIO is a typeclass.
2021-10-13 13:29:25 +0200raehik(~raehik@cpc95906-rdng25-2-0-cust156.15-3.cable.virginm.net) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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2021-10-13 13:32:07 +0200fendor_fendor
2021-10-13 13:32:24 +0200 <lortabac> alternatively, you can define your own monomorphic liftIO
2021-10-13 13:39:45 +0200ByronJohnson(~bairyn@mail.digitalkingdom.org) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-10-13 13:40:27 +0200 <kuribas> yeah
2021-10-13 13:41:46 +0200ByronJohnson(~bairyn@mail.digitalkingdom.org)
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2021-10-13 14:52:48 +0200 <kritzefitz> If I have a `TVar (Map k v)` and many transactions only change specific keys of the Map, is it beneficial for perfomance to make it `TVar (Map k (TVar v))` instead?
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2021-10-13 14:54:04 +0200 <kritzefitz> While most transactions only change the values of specific keys, some others might change the structure of the map by removing or adding keys.
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2021-10-13 14:59:47 +0200justsomeguy(~justsomeg@user/justsomeguy)
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2021-10-13 15:01:43 +0200 <kuribas> kritzefitz: probably not. TVar's aren't free.
2021-10-13 15:02:59 +0200 <kuribas> kritzefitz: if you only have one TVar, you could use MVar as well.
2021-10-13 15:03:13 +0200 <kuribas> That will perform better.
2021-10-13 15:03:27 +0200 <kritzefitz> Good point.
2021-10-13 15:04:38 +0200 <kuribas> TVars have less chance to deadlock than MVars, but at a performance cost.
2021-10-13 15:05:25 +0200 <vaibhavsagar[m]> kritzefitz: have you seen https://hackage.haskell.org/package/stm-containers already?
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2021-10-13 15:07:05 +0200 <kuribas> that seems rather unnecessary. "but also scale well on concurrent access patterns". immutable Maps are very good for concurrency, because lazy update takes almost no time.
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2021-10-13 15:07:31 +0200 <kritzefitz> I had not. It looks interesting. But I noticed that each key in my map is only worked on by one thread, so I can probably omit the map entirely.
2021-10-13 15:07:48 +0200 <kuribas> and then lookup becomes a mutable operation.
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2021-10-13 15:37:01 +0200 <justsomeguy> How would you describe what a base case is? I'm struggling to come up with a good explanation of the idea.
2021-10-13 15:37:04 +0200mikoto-chan(~mikoto-ch@ip-83-134-2-136.dsl.scarlet.be)
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2021-10-13 15:39:21 +0200 <cigsender> justsomeguy: it's nonrecursive. so maybe just, "it's a case where the result is direct, instead of dependent on further compputation"?
2021-10-13 15:40:37 +0200[itchyjunk](~itchyjunk@user/itchyjunk/x-7353470)
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2021-10-13 15:43:45 +0200 <shapr> justsomeguy: when to stop? I think of washing dishes in the sink 0. If there aren't any dirty dishes, we're done 1. if there are dirty dishes, put one in the sink 2. rinse that dirty dish in clean water 3. put the rinsed dish in the rack
2021-10-13 15:45:13 +0200 <shapr> or also matching pairs of socks out of the dryer 0. if there are zero socks, we're done 1. pick up a sock, try to find its matche 1a. if you do not find a match, put the sock in your graveyard 1b. if you find a match, put the pair in the done pile
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2021-10-13 15:53:31 +0200 <hippoid> :t fmap
2021-10-13 15:53:32 +0200 <lambdabot> Functor f => (a -> b) -> f a -> f b
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2021-10-13 16:15:41 +0200 <hippoid> :t (<>)
2021-10-13 16:15:43 +0200 <lambdabot> Semigroup a => a -> a -> a
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2021-10-13 16:32:53 +0200benin(~benin@183.82.29.30) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2021-10-13 16:34:14 +0200 <hippoid> I'm trying to do this first exercise on Typeclassopedia
2021-10-13 16:34:14 +0200 <hippoid> Implement Functor instances for Either e and ((->) e).
2021-10-13 16:35:26 +0200benin(~benin@183.82.29.30)
2021-10-13 16:35:34 +0200 <hippoid> I start out wiht "instance Function (Either a) where" ...
2021-10-13 16:35:39 +0200myShoggoth(~myShoggot@97-120-70-214.ptld.qwest.net)
2021-10-13 16:35:57 +0200 <hippoid> but I get a duplicate instance declaration as it's defined in 'Data.Either'
2021-10-13 16:36:09 +0200 <hippoid> what am i doing wrong here
2021-10-13 16:36:25 +0200myShoggoth(~myShoggot@97-120-70-214.ptld.qwest.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-10-13 16:38:21 +0200 <__monty__> hippoid: Simplest solution is probably to not import Data.Either and just define your own Either type.
2021-10-13 16:38:26 +0200mikoto-chan(~mikoto-ch@ip-83-134-2-136.dsl.scarlet.be) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-10-13 16:39:02 +0200 <hippoid> __monty__: that makes sense. I'm not explicitly import Data.Either. I think it's coming in through prelude
2021-10-13 16:39:03 +0200visortelle(~visortell@37.214.28.39)
2021-10-13 16:39:17 +0200 <geekosaur> yeh, was about to say that one comes fromthe Prelude
2021-10-13 16:39:27 +0200EvanR(~evan@user/evanr) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-10-13 16:39:40 +0200 <geekosaur> so you may have to either define your own Functor-liuke typeclass, or use NoImplicitPrelude
2021-10-13 16:39:56 +0200visortelle(~visortell@37.214.28.39) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-10-13 16:40:01 +0200 <hippoid> geekosaur: that makes sense.
2021-10-13 16:40:06 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2021-10-13 16:41:24 +0200o1lo01ol_(~o1lo01ol1@2001:8a0:6d7a:df01:74db:7502:a3aa:3820)
2021-10-13 16:41:39 +0200 <__monty__> Maybe the wiki could be updated with some info about how to reproduce it for yourself?
2021-10-13 16:43:47 +0200 <hippoid> or a note that you're going to run into this problem if you do it right
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2021-10-13 17:06:41 +0200jakalx(~jakalx@base.jakalx.net) ()
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2021-10-13 17:11:09 +0200gaff(~gaff@49.207.217.147)
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2021-10-13 17:13:04 +0200xiongxin(~quassel@113.116.224.79)
2021-10-13 17:13:42 +0200 <gaff> I am using GHC 8.10.4, and in GHCi, `Ratio` is defined as `data Ratio a = !a GHC.Real.:% !a`. what is `GHC.Real` in this constructor?
2021-10-13 17:14:21 +0200fendor(~fendor@178.115.40.84.wireless.dyn.drei.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-10-13 17:15:19 +0200jakalx(~jakalx@base.jakalx.net)
2021-10-13 17:15:27 +0200 <geekosaur> it's an internal module
2021-10-13 17:15:50 +0200 <geekosaur> https://downloads.haskell.org/ghc/latest/docs/html/libraries/base-4.15.0.0/GHC-Real.html
2021-10-13 17:15:59 +0200max22-(~maxime@2a01cb08833598002f94a8658ae72434.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2021-10-13 17:16:14 +0200 <geekosaur> basically, the :% constructor is not exported, so ghci shows its full name
2021-10-13 17:16:16 +0200 <gaff> yeah, i know. but i am wondering about the syntax in the constructor
2021-10-13 17:16:24 +0200 <gaff> ah ok
2021-10-13 17:16:40 +0200 <gaff> ok, got it
2021-10-13 17:16:57 +0200justsomeguy(~justsomeg@user/justsomeguy)
2021-10-13 17:17:05 +0200 <geekosaur> % is not actually a constructor, it's an operator which reduces the ratio to lowest terms before feeding it to :%
2021-10-13 17:17:05 +0200 <yahb> geekosaur: ; <interactive>:45:30: error: parse error on input `,'
2021-10-13 17:17:16 +0200 <geekosaur> bah
2021-10-13 17:17:25 +0200 <geekosaur> shaddap stupid bit :þ
2021-10-13 17:17:29 +0200 <geekosaur> *bot
2021-10-13 17:18:01 +0200 <geekosaur> anyway we call that a "smart constructor"
2021-10-13 17:19:04 +0200 <geekosaur> you'll find those in a few other places, for example Data.Map.fromList sorts and uniquifies the list before constructing the Map so it obeys the internal constraints on the Map's structure
2021-10-13 17:20:34 +0200 <geekosaur> as for the colon, operators don't have uppercase so a constructor operator always starts with a colon
2021-10-13 17:20:54 +0200 <geekosaur> this basically borrows from list syntax where : is a constructor operator
2021-10-13 17:20:56 +0200rekahsoft(~rekahsoft@52.129.35.150) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2021-10-13 17:23:00 +0200hippoid(~hippoid@c-24-12-226-47.hsd1.il.comcast.net)
2021-10-13 17:23:11 +0200 <gaff> sure, thanks. also, fromRational :: Fractional a => Rational -> a, but this works: fromRational 8.987678. how come?
2021-10-13 17:25:12 +0200 <maralorn> Huh, yesterday. I asked about how to represent my "tree" in a config file. I decided to use json. Now my implementation is finished. I am really satisfied. But aeson throws away the order of leaves in my json. ☹️
2021-10-13 17:25:37 +0200Franciman(~Franciman@mx1.fracta.dev) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-10-13 17:25:51 +0200\dev\ice(~benner@2a01:4f8:1c1c:2178::1)
2021-10-13 17:26:37 +0200 <geekosaur> because a Fractional literal is represented as a Rational when compiled
2021-10-13 17:27:05 +0200 <gaff> geekosaur: ok, as a ratio of two Integers?
2021-10-13 17:27:08 +0200 <geekosaur> it won't work for a variable, just for a literal
2021-10-13 17:27:09 +0200 <geekosaur> yes
2021-10-13 17:27:22 +0200CiaoSen(~Jura@p200300c9571101002a3a4dfffe84dbd5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2021-10-13 17:27:36 +0200 <gaff> geekosaur: but surely you would lose some precision, won't you, if you do that?
2021-10-13 17:27:44 +0200azimut(~azimut@gateway/tor-sasl/azimut) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-10-13 17:27:59 +0200 <geekosaur> nope, it can always represent exactly what you entered as a Rational
2021-10-13 17:28:11 +0200azimut(~azimut@gateway/tor-sasl/azimut)
2021-10-13 17:28:16 +0200werneta(~werneta@70-142-214-115.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net)
2021-10-13 17:28:18 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
2021-10-13 17:28:21 +0200 <geekosaur> because you can't enter a literal irrational number, only a rational approximation of it
2021-10-13 17:28:35 +0200zmt00(~zmt00@user/zmt00)
2021-10-13 17:28:46 +0200 <gaff> geekosaur: so that comes from math ... you can represent any fractional as a ratio of two integers?
2021-10-13 17:29:02 +0200 <gaff> geekosaur: oh ok
2021-10-13 17:29:09 +0200 <geekosaur> you could enter an expression which computes an irrational, but then fromRational would fail because it's not operating on a literal any more
2021-10-13 17:29:42 +0200xiongxin(~quassel@113.116.224.79) (Quit: https://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.)
2021-10-13 17:30:00 +0200 <geekosaur> 8.987678 is 8987678 % 10000000
2021-10-13 17:30:17 +0200 <geekosaur> sorry knock one of those zeroes off
2021-10-13 17:30:28 +0200 <gaff> geekosaur: and any rational approximation of an irrational number you can represent as a ratio of two integers, i suppose.
2021-10-13 17:30:39 +0200 <gaff> geekosaur: ah got it
2021-10-13 17:30:47 +0200 <geekosaur> that;s what "rational" means
2021-10-13 17:30:53 +0200 <gaff> ok
2021-10-13 17:30:59 +0200 <gaff> geekosaur: thanks much
2021-10-13 17:31:05 +0200 <geekosaur> it's alwaysy a ratio of two integers
2021-10-13 17:31:24 +0200Franciman(~Franciman@mx1.fracta.dev)
2021-10-13 17:32:32 +0200RunRun(RunRun@c-24-127-7-249.hsd1.mi.comcast.net)
2021-10-13 17:32:44 +0200 <RunRun> Hello Helo
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2021-10-13 17:55:34 +0200 <__monty__> maralorn: JSON imposes no order on objects. You'd have to use lists or add identifiers that can be used to restore the order later.
2021-10-13 17:55:40 +0200gehmehgeh(~user@user/gehmehgeh)
2021-10-13 17:55:49 +0200eggplantade(~Eggplanta@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:ac5a:4bd6:3f7c:fb35)
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2021-10-13 17:58:46 +0200lbseale(~lbseale@user/ep1ctetus)
2021-10-13 18:00:25 +0200hgolden(~hgolden2@cpe-172-114-81-123.socal.res.rr.com)
2021-10-13 18:01:14 +0200 <maralorn> __monty__: Yeah, I know that now.
2021-10-13 18:01:32 +0200 <maralorn> I actually probably already knew it. But I conveniently forgot.^^
2021-10-13 18:02:52 +0200hippoid(~hippoid@c-24-12-226-47.hsd1.il.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-10-13 18:03:19 +0200 <monochrom> > toRational pi -- >:)
2021-10-13 18:03:21 +0200 <lambdabot> 884279719003555 % 281474976710656
2021-10-13 18:06:35 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
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2021-10-13 18:09:31 +0200dextaa6(~DV@user/dextaa)
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2021-10-13 18:10:56 +0200dextaa6dextaa
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2021-10-13 18:14:20 +0200econo(uid147250@user/econo)
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2021-10-13 18:21:29 +0200 <dminuoso> monochrom: Squaring the circle, finally.
2021-10-13 18:21:59 +0200 <dminuoso> Given that there were proofs of its impossibility, Id say you have unraveled an inconsistency in mathematics. Let's call it the trebla paradox.
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2021-10-13 18:36:43 +0200 <tomsmeding_> > take 5 $ fix(\s(w:a)g->let d@(e:_)=dropWhile(on(>) denominator w)g in w/e:s a d)(map(9801/2/)(scanl1(+)[fromInteger(product[1..4*k]*(1103+26390*k))/fromInteger(product[1..k]^4*396^(4*k))|k<-[0..]]))(iterate(\x->(x+2/x)/2)1)
2021-10-13 18:36:45 +0200 <lambdabot> [2307312216 % 734440271,5583528839414195121176657929876644864 % 177729242937...
2021-10-13 18:36:56 +0200fizzsegfaultbuzz(~segfaultf@135-180-0-138.static.sonic.net)
2021-10-13 18:37:03 +0200 <tomsmeding_> TIL lambdabot has a difference in truncation behaviour between personal chat and #haskell
2021-10-13 18:37:25 +0200cfricke(~cfricke@user/cfricke) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-10-13 18:38:26 +0200 <tomsmeding_> > map ((1.0*) . realToFrac) $ fix(\s(w:a)g->let d@(e:_)=dropWhile(on(>) denominator w)g in w/e:s a d)(map(9801/2/)(scanl1(+)[fromInteger(product[1..4*k]*(1103+26390*k))/fromInteger(product[1..k]^4*396^(4*k))|k<-[0..]]))(iterate(\x->(x+2/x)/2)1)
2021-10-13 18:38:28 +0200 <lambdabot> [3.1415927300097626,3.141592653589794,3.141592653589793,3.141592653589793,3....
2021-10-13 18:38:43 +0200justsomeguy(~justsomeg@user/justsomeguy) (Quit: WeeChat 3.2)
2021-10-13 18:39:00 +0200tomsmeding_tomsmeding
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2021-10-13 18:47:24 +0200tzh(~tzh@c-24-21-73-154.hsd1.wa.comcast.net)
2021-10-13 18:47:45 +0200 <geekosaur> yep
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2021-10-13 18:53:58 +0200 <monochrom> dminuoso: https://xkcd.com/816/ :)
2021-10-13 18:55:42 +0200hippoid(~hippoid@c-24-12-226-47.hsd1.il.comcast.net)
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2021-10-13 19:34:07 +0200Sgeo_(~Sgeo@user/sgeo) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-10-13 19:34:20 +0200 <shapr> I still wish hoogle could search for typeclass instances
2021-10-13 19:42:20 +0200Natch(~natch@c-e070e255.014-297-73746f25.bbcust.telenor.se) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2021-10-13 19:49:39 +0200emf_(~emf@2620:10d:c090:400::5:c416)
2021-10-13 19:51:13 +0200 <cigsender> shapr: something in particular you're looking for?
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2021-10-13 19:55:03 +0200Axma53541(~Axman6@user/axman6)
2021-10-13 19:56:18 +0200 <shapr> cigsender: yeah, I followed this post https://stackoverflow.com/questions/32975116/how-to-search-for-typeclass-instances-on-hoogle
2021-10-13 19:56:59 +0200 <shapr> I was looking for an Arbitrary instance for ByteString, because we're converting our cryptohash code to cryptonite
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2021-10-13 20:00:06 +0200arjun(~user@103.57.87.77) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-10-13 20:01:11 +0200 <cads> kuribas, if we have a monadic instance of MonadIO / LiftIO, can't we sort of yell loudly to /forget/ that we're dealing with a monad? And doing this forgetful thing, can't we derive a "for free" applicative version?
2021-10-13 20:01:27 +0200 <cigsender> shapr: looks like cryptonite defines its own instance Arbitrary ByteString
2021-10-13 20:02:19 +0200 <shapr> oh, didn't see that
2021-10-13 20:02:54 +0200 <cads> kuribas, I don't know precisely why, but I feel like there is a forgetful functor from the category of monadic functors to the category of applicative functors
2021-10-13 20:03:11 +0200 <cigsender> shapr: it's in a test module though: https://github.com/haskell-crypto/cryptonite/blob/master/tests/Hash.hs
2021-10-13 20:04:55 +0200 <shapr> thanks for pointing that out, didn't know about it.
2021-10-13 20:05:54 +0200alzgh(~alzgh@user/alzgh) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-10-13 20:06:04 +0200alzgh(~alzgh@user/alzgh)
2021-10-13 20:06:50 +0200hexfive(~eric@50.35.83.177)
2021-10-13 20:07:36 +0200 <cads> kuribas, this is in regards to your question "Is there liftIO for applicatives?"
2021-10-13 20:08:22 +0200hexfive(~eric@50.35.83.177) (Client Quit)
2021-10-13 20:08:51 +0200cfricke(~cfricke@user/cfricke) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2021-10-13 20:12:41 +0200 <cads> Like, say F is the forgetful functor from from Monad to Applicative. Can F translate liftIO for applicatives that we "forget" from monads?
2021-10-13 20:12:42 +0200hippoid(~hippoid@c-24-12-226-47.hsd1.il.comcast.net)
2021-10-13 20:13:10 +0200 <cads> it seems like this approach does not help us for those applicative that are not also monads.
2021-10-13 20:23:04 +0200 <monochrom> https://github.com/treblacy/cabalgc \∩/
2021-10-13 20:24:16 +0200 <[exa]> this is some high quality material
2021-10-13 20:25:20 +0200max22-(~maxime@2a01cb08833598002f94a8658ae72434.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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2021-10-13 20:32:42 +0200 <cads> hrm, it's not immediately obvious that I should be able to take an ordinary monad and derive from it an applicative (a lax functor and a tensorial strength). There is a slight impedance mismatch.
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2021-10-13 20:44:05 +0200Farzad(~FarzadBek@37.49.148.79)
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2021-10-13 20:48:07 +0200 <tomsmeding> cads: you probably already know this, but with Haskell's concept of Applicative and Monad, you of course can: pure = return; (<*>) = ap
2021-10-13 20:49:40 +0200 <cads> I don't know that - I have not worked with haskell in a decade, lol
2021-10-13 20:49:53 +0200 <tomsmeding> @src ap
2021-10-13 20:49:53 +0200 <lambdabot> ap = liftM2 id
2021-10-13 20:49:58 +0200 <tomsmeding> lol that's not helpful
2021-10-13 20:50:03 +0200 <cads> I will verify what you say
2021-10-13 20:50:29 +0200 <tomsmeding> https://hackage.haskell.org/package/base-4.15.0.0/docs/src/GHC-Base.html#ap
2021-10-13 20:50:35 +0200 <monochrom> It really means liftM2 ($)
2021-10-13 20:51:03 +0200 <monochrom> And you could use liftM2 for liftA2, too.
2021-10-13 20:51:48 +0200 <shapr> cads: want a job?
2021-10-13 20:51:50 +0200 <tomsmeding> :t (. ((. (return .)) . (>>=))) . (>>=)
2021-10-13 20:51:52 +0200 <lambdabot> Monad m => m (a1 -> a2) -> m a1 -> m a2
2021-10-13 20:52:15 +0200drdo(~drdo@overlord0.drdo.eu) (Quit: ...)
2021-10-13 20:52:23 +0200 <monochrom> hahaha
2021-10-13 20:52:27 +0200 <cigsender> :D
2021-10-13 20:52:35 +0200 <tomsmeding> "pointfree!"
2021-10-13 20:53:06 +0200drdo(~drdo@overlord0.drdo.eu)
2021-10-13 20:53:44 +0200 <monochrom> @quote monochrom 17-ary
2021-10-13 20:53:44 +0200 <lambdabot> monochrom says: I am 17-ary, going on 18-ary, I can take curry of you
2021-10-13 20:54:08 +0200 <tomsmeding> you mean I can cook for you?
2021-10-13 20:54:33 +0200 <monochrom> Naw, it was referring to id being 17-ary and can be 18-ary too.
2021-10-13 20:54:34 +0200zebrag(~chris@user/zebrag) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-10-13 20:54:56 +0200 <monochrom> And currying plays a role.
2021-10-13 20:55:52 +0200 <monochrom> And one of the songs in The Sound of Music.
2021-10-13 20:56:10 +0200 <tomsmeding> very important role, that one
2021-10-13 20:56:31 +0200 <tomsmeding> a nominal one, I think
2021-10-13 21:05:19 +0200tom_(~tom@2a00:23c8:970c:4801:5b6a:e81b:79dc:f684)
2021-10-13 21:06:45 +0200 <hippoid> How do I increase the number of tests QuickCheck runs? Google and SO is failing me.
2021-10-13 21:07:30 +0200 <tomsmeding> hippoid: quickCheckWith stdArgs { maxSuccess = 9999 } ?
2021-10-13 21:07:36 +0200Guest7926(~tom@2a00:23c8:970c:4801:69d2:4473:99ea:fb45) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2021-10-13 21:07:39 +0200 <cigsender> hippoid: withMaxSuccess?
2021-10-13 21:07:58 +0200 <tomsmeding> ah
2021-10-13 21:08:28 +0200 <hippoid> tomsmeding: yes, thanks!
2021-10-13 21:08:32 +0200 <tomsmeding> (note that Tasty has a different thing for this)
2021-10-13 21:09:59 +0200max22-(~maxime@2a01cb0883359800e21c21519a7e8938.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2021-10-13 21:10:59 +0200mei6(~mei@user/mei) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-10-13 21:16:39 +0200aegon(~mike@174.127.249.180)
2021-10-13 21:19:18 +0200 <hippoid> :t ->
2021-10-13 21:19:19 +0200 <lambdabot> error: parse error on input ‘->’
2021-10-13 21:19:22 +0200 <hippoid> :t (->)
2021-10-13 21:19:23 +0200 <lambdabot> error: parse error on input ‘->’
2021-10-13 21:19:30 +0200 <tomsmeding> :k (->)
2021-10-13 21:19:31 +0200 <lambdabot> * -> * -> *
2021-10-13 21:20:08 +0200dschrempf(~dominik@070-207.dynamic.dsl.fonira.net)
2021-10-13 21:22:45 +0200cigsender(~cigsender@74.124.58.162) (Quit: #irssi)
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2021-10-13 21:24:21 +0200mikoto-chan(~mikoto-ch@ip-83-134-2-136.dsl.scarlet.be)
2021-10-13 21:25:15 +0200hippoid_(~hippoid@c-24-12-226-47.hsd1.il.comcast.net)
2021-10-13 21:25:26 +0200 <hippoid_> I'm trying to understand this Functorz definition of (Either a). The 'kind' of Either is *->*->*, but on line 4 I only have to provide one type variable, a. Why don't I have to provide a second type variable, like (Either a, b)? https://paste.tomsmeding.com/VGGwMBV6
2021-10-13 21:25:49 +0200 <tomsmeding> :k Functor
2021-10-13 21:25:50 +0200 <monochrom> Because a Functor instance has kind * -> *
2021-10-13 21:25:50 +0200 <lambdabot> (* -> *) -> Constraint
2021-10-13 21:25:56 +0200 <tomsmeding> :k Either a
2021-10-13 21:25:58 +0200 <lambdabot> error: Not in scope: type variable ‘a’
2021-10-13 21:26:00 +0200 <tomsmeding> :k Either Int
2021-10-13 21:26:01 +0200 <lambdabot> * -> *
2021-10-13 21:26:17 +0200 <monochrom> You don't say "instance Functor (Maybe a)", you say "instance Functor Maybe".
2021-10-13 21:26:23 +0200pavonia(~user@user/siracusa)
2021-10-13 21:26:35 +0200 <geekosaur> you can think of this as meaning you have no controil nor access to the other type variable; your definition has to work for any type the user chooses for the other type variable
2021-10-13 21:26:35 +0200 <monochrom> For the same reason it is not going to be "instance Functor (Either x y)"
2021-10-13 21:27:01 +0200wonko(~wjc@62.115.229.50) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-10-13 21:27:12 +0200 <hippoid_> I have to ponder this, I think I might get it. Also the 'a' is not used at all, so it's just there to satisfy the kind signature?
2021-10-13 21:27:25 +0200 <tomsmeding> you could imagine that you should be able to write something like "instance Functor (\y -> Either x y)", but you can't write type-level lambdas in Haskell
2021-10-13 21:27:43 +0200eggplantade(~Eggplanta@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:ac5a:4bd6:3f7c:fb35) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-10-13 21:27:51 +0200 <monochrom> It is used. Write out the type of fmap for Either a.
2021-10-13 21:27:51 +0200 <tomsmeding> hippoid_: you're now defining a Functor instance for 'Either a' for all values of 'a'
2021-10-13 21:28:04 +0200 <cigsender> it means that for any type `a`, (Either a) is a Functor, i.e. you can fmap :: (x -> y) -> Either a x -> Either a y
2021-10-13 21:28:37 +0200 <tomsmeding> you could also have created an instance just for 'Either Int', for example
2021-10-13 21:29:27 +0200 <monochrom> And by the time you write "fmap f (Left x) = Left x", and ask yourself what's the type of x, the answer is a.
2021-10-13 21:29:50 +0200 <monochrom> All these are pointing towards more writing code and less armchair philosophizing.
2021-10-13 21:30:26 +0200 <shapr> yeah, I need to do that
2021-10-13 21:32:37 +0200nattiestnate(~nate@2001:448a:20a0:4134:25e:715f:d637:5263)
2021-10-13 21:33:37 +0200nattiestnate(~nate@2001:448a:20a0:4134:25e:715f:d637:5263) (Client Quit)
2021-10-13 21:33:50 +0200nattiestnate(~nate@2001:448a:20a0:4134:25e:715f:d637:5263)
2021-10-13 21:35:19 +0200 <kuribas> :t concatMap sequence
2021-10-13 21:35:20 +0200 <lambdabot> (Traversable t1, Foldable t2) => t2 (t1 [a]) -> [t1 a]
2021-10-13 21:35:26 +0200Sgeo(~Sgeo@user/sgeo)
2021-10-13 21:35:44 +0200 <hippoid_> ok get it, at least more than I did before. Functor can vary on one type, while Either varies on two, so to match the kind of Either to Functor, one type must be held constant. Apologies for all the wrong terminology
2021-10-13 21:38:13 +0200LiaoTao_LiaoTao
2021-10-13 21:38:24 +0200 <tomsmeding> hippoid_: that's actually not a bad way to put it I think, even if it's not the standard way of speaking
2021-10-13 21:38:29 +0200Sgeo__(~Sgeo@user/sgeo) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-10-13 21:38:59 +0200 <tomsmeding> the thing that's missing in your description is that the "varying" type must be the _last_ one in the list of type variables of the type that you're implementing Functor for
2021-10-13 21:39:15 +0200 <shapr> speaking of which, I was trying to find a type level flip recently
2021-10-13 21:39:25 +0200 <tomsmeding> you can't without a newtype, right?
2021-10-13 21:40:15 +0200 <shapr> I found a reddit post that linked to a bifunctor ... ok, I'll go find it
2021-10-13 21:40:27 +0200 <monochrom> A type alias and FlexibleSomething can get you some distance but not all.
2021-10-13 21:40:41 +0200eggplantade(~Eggplanta@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:ac5a:4bd6:3f7c:fb35)
2021-10-13 21:41:24 +0200 <tomsmeding> monochrom: won't you run into the fact that you can't partially apply a type synonym?
2021-10-13 21:41:28 +0200 <geekosaur> I thought Control.Category defined Flip
2021-10-13 21:41:43 +0200 <monochrom> Ah.
2021-10-13 21:42:12 +0200 <tomsmeding> geekosaur: this thing? https://hackage.haskell.org/package/bifunctors-5.5.11/docs/Data-Bifunctor-Flip.html#t:Flip
2021-10-13 21:42:28 +0200ub(~Thunderbi@178.165.161.120.wireless.dyn.drei.com)
2021-10-13 21:42:46 +0200 <geekosaur> yeh, that was what I was thinking of. C.Category turns out to be very minimal, sorry
2021-10-13 21:42:51 +0200 <shapr> oh yeah, this was it https://www.reddit.com/r/haskellquestions/comments/pxy6tz/like_flip_but_with_types/
2021-10-13 21:43:20 +0200 <shapr> one of the comments mentioned Data.Bifunctor.Flip, which I haven't tried yet
2021-10-13 21:43:43 +0200 <tomsmeding> that looks to be literally the same type as the one in OP
2021-10-13 21:43:49 +0200 <tomsmeding> with a different record field name
2021-10-13 21:43:54 +0200 <shapr> I was trying to specify the types to cryptonite's Crypto.Hash.hash and I was using @_ and @ByteString and wondered if there was a flip
2021-10-13 21:44:08 +0200coot(~coot@37.30.52.44.nat.umts.dynamic.t-mobile.pl)
2021-10-13 21:44:17 +0200 <geekosaur> probably not for that
2021-10-13 21:44:23 +0200Sgeo(~Sgeo@user/sgeo) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-10-13 21:44:40 +0200 <geekosaur> this is one of the recurring issues with TypeApplications
2021-10-13 21:44:54 +0200nattiestnate(~nate@2001:448a:20a0:4134:25e:715f:d637:5263) (Quit: WeeChat 3.3)
2021-10-13 21:45:03 +0200 <awpr> that might actually be a good use for the type alias version
2021-10-13 21:45:04 +0200 <geekosaur> well, that and a reasonably small (and non-PVP-reflected) change can break all your type applications
2021-10-13 21:45:09 +0200nattiestnate(~nate@2001:448a:20a0:4134:25e:715f:d637:5263)
2021-10-13 21:45:31 +0200 <awpr> actually not so much, you'd still have to write extra _s
2021-10-13 21:45:34 +0200 <dolio> That's another thing that would just work if type applications were sugar for proxy arguments. :þ
2021-10-13 21:45:51 +0200dschrempf(~dominik@070-207.dynamic.dsl.fonira.net) (Quit: WeeChat 3.3)
2021-10-13 21:46:06 +0200Sgeo(~Sgeo@user/sgeo)
2021-10-13 21:46:16 +0200 <awpr> as in, value-level flip would then capture the type parameters?
2021-10-13 21:46:24 +0200 <hippoid_> doing this helped cement the idea... though not sure if it's a valid functor https://paste.tomsmeding.com/bbPLfG5b
2021-10-13 21:46:24 +0200 <monochrom> Haha nice
2021-10-13 21:46:28 +0200 <dolio> Yeah.
2021-10-13 21:46:49 +0200Pickchea(~private@user/pickchea)
2021-10-13 21:46:53 +0200 <monochrom> It is a valid functor.
2021-10-13 21:47:11 +0200 <tomsmeding> hippoid_: that's a great example, going to steal that
2021-10-13 21:47:18 +0200 <hippoid_> please do
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2021-10-13 22:09:06 +0200 <sm> hi glguy, Is there any complete example of reading and writing a config file with config-value ?
2021-10-13 22:09:13 +0200kuribas(~user@2a02:1810:481b:1200:fc72:85c4:4606:568a) (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 26.3))
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2021-10-13 22:12:09 +0200smfigures it out
2021-10-13 22:15:42 +0200 <sm> in my mind, at least. We shall see.
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2021-10-13 22:19:57 +0200zebrag(~chris@user/zebrag)
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2021-10-13 22:21:48 +0200 <ghoulguy> sm: hi
2021-10-13 22:22:33 +0200ph88(~ph88@2a02:8109:9e00:7e5c::3d56)
2021-10-13 22:23:14 +0200 <ghoulguy> sm: the first real-world, public examples that come to mind can be found in https://github.com/glguy/irc-core/blob/v2/src/Client/Configuration/Colors.hs and other modules in this directory
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2021-10-13 22:28:25 +0200 <shapr> sm: I use config-value and config-schema in flm: https://github.com/shapr/fermatslastmargin/blob/master/src/Lib.hs#L412
2021-10-13 22:28:51 +0200o1lo01ol1o(~o1lo01ol1@2001:8a0:6d7a:df01:74db:7502:a3aa:3820)
2021-10-13 22:28:55 +0200 <sm> thanks ghoulguy , shapr!
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2021-10-13 23:18:28 +0200 <monochrom> Ah, System.Directory.getAppUserDataDirectory is the one I should use that unifies over unix $HOME/.cabal and windows %APPDATA%\cabal
2021-10-13 23:18:41 +0200statusbot(~statusbot@ec2-34-198-122-184.compute-1.amazonaws.com)
2021-10-13 23:19:15 +0200 <monochrom> But maerwald is right, just use cabal-install-parsers (which calls that) and be done with it.
2021-10-13 23:22:05 +0200DNH(~DNH@2a02:8108:1100:16d8:90d3:5ed9:9947:2fe2) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-10-13 23:24:16 +0200 <maerwald> monochrom: it's even more complicated... there's also CABAL_DIR and CABAL_CONFIG and then a store-dir setting in said config
2021-10-13 23:24:28 +0200 <monochrom> Yeah.
2021-10-13 23:24:35 +0200 <maerwald> you could be setting all 3 :D
2021-10-13 23:25:21 +0200Lord_of_Life(~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2021-10-13 23:25:26 +0200 <monochrom> Next version!
2021-10-13 23:25:52 +0200 <monochrom> Err, I mean I procrastinate but it will be done in the next version.
2021-10-13 23:25:54 +0200 <maerwald> there's an issue about removing CABAL_DIR at least, but I find it's kinda convenient
2021-10-13 23:26:07 +0200 <monochrom> I'm just surprised that some packages don't have the "depends" field...
2021-10-13 23:26:29 +0200 <maerwald> monochrom: `fail`
2021-10-13 23:26:41 +0200 <maerwald> https://hackage.haskell.org/package/fail
2021-10-13 23:26:45 +0200 <maerwald> it's just base, which isn't in there
2021-10-13 23:27:05 +0200 <maerwald> not sure why
2021-10-13 23:27:16 +0200 <maerwald> https://hackage.haskell.org/package/fail-4.9.0.0/fail.cabal
2021-10-13 23:27:49 +0200Lord_of_Life(~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915)
2021-10-13 23:28:02 +0200 <maerwald> right, so empty depends is indeed valid
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2021-10-13 23:31:15 +0200 <monochrom> Yikes, a package that builds to no code whatsoever. Not even a library-dirs field...
2021-10-13 23:31:40 +0200 <monochrom> Damn stupid degenerate corner cases.
2021-10-13 23:31:54 +0200 <maerwald> and it's a popular package
2021-10-13 23:32:00 +0200 <maerwald> 108682 downloads
2021-10-13 23:32:42 +0200 <hpc> a true follower of the codeless code :D
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2021-10-13 23:34:03 +0200 <hpc> there's always going to be some package with empty dependencies, btw
2021-10-13 23:34:08 +0200 <hpc> unless we allow circular dependencies
2021-10-13 23:34:17 +0200 <hpc> something has to be at the root of the DAG
2021-10-13 23:34:49 +0200machinedgod(~machinedg@135-23-192-217.cpe.pppoe.ca)
2021-10-13 23:35:55 +0200 <maerwald> it seems people call `fail` way too often
2021-10-13 23:36:20 +0200 <maerwald> why can't we have something nice at the root
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