IRCBrowse

2021/10/12

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2021-10-12 00:05:08 +0000Tordek_Tordek
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2021-10-12 01:04:52 +0000 <esrh> monads amirite
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2021-10-12 01:29:35 +0000 <zzz> what about them?
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2021-10-12 01:32:43 +0000 <rootard> esrh: you're not wrong.
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2021-10-12 01:45:25 +0000 <esrh> thoughts on Data.List(intercalate)?
2021-10-12 01:45:30 +0000 <esrh> yay or nay
2021-10-12 01:48:46 +0000rootard(~rootard@172.58.88.54) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-10-12 01:49:11 +0000 <pavonia> As opposed to what?
2021-10-12 01:51:35 +0000 <Cajun> i mean what would be wrong with it other than possibly the usage of lists when it isnt optimal?
2021-10-12 01:52:11 +0000 <Cajun> s/it isnt/lists arent
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2021-10-12 02:19:18 +0000 <esrh> nothing lol i was just kidding, i'm pretty new to haskell and the variety of list functions stuck out to me
2021-10-12 02:20:58 +0000justsomeguy(~justsomeg@user/justsomeguy)
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2021-10-12 02:29:03 +0000 <slack1256> When using the rts option -xc , how can I redirect to a file the output? I know that by default it uses stderr, but my app already uses that fd.
2021-10-12 02:31:42 +0000 <hololeap> is it correct that so-called extensible effects have something to do with free monads? I've been eyeballing polysemy since yesterday, and I kind of get how to use it, but what does it have to do with free monads?
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2021-10-12 02:41:05 +0000 <hololeap> I suppose it has something to do with the functor at each layer of the free monad being defined in a type-level list, so it is heterogeneous, as opposed to a static functor `f` forming a "normal" (homogeneous) free monad
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2021-10-12 03:40:45 +0000 <lyxia_> free X means you can interpret it into any (reasonable) X
2021-10-12 03:41:04 +0000lyxia_lyxia
2021-10-12 03:42:33 +0000 <razor[m]> bullshit man
2021-10-12 03:43:15 +0000 <lyxia> so it's kinda the nature of extensible effects that they involve free monads in one way or another
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2021-10-12 04:26:39 +0000jmcantrell(~jmcantrel@user/jmcantrell)
2021-10-12 04:28:10 +0000 <jmcantrell> when using ghcup, is there a way to tell it not to alter my shell's rc file?
2021-10-12 04:33:02 +0000 <jmcantrell> looks like I can set SHELL to some bogus value, but that seems a bit hacky
2021-10-12 04:38:00 +0000 <justsomeguy> jmcantrell: You can do a manual install instead of the curl ... | sh buisness. https://www.haskell.org/ghcup/install/#manual-install
2021-10-12 04:38:34 +0000 <justsomeguy> I don't think that ghcup touches your shell startup files after the initial setup. Does it?
2021-10-12 04:39:38 +0000 <jmcantrell> I don't think so
2021-10-12 04:43:28 +0000 <justsomeguy> I wonder, if I wanted to design my own alternative to stack/cabal/nix today, what would I need to know? Just how to override GHCs search path? Or is there more? I'd like to understand how all these build tools work.
2021-10-12 04:48:42 +0000 <justsomeguy> Part of the reason I wonder this is because I don't know how stack test finds and executes the test suite, for example.
2021-10-12 04:49:30 +0000 <hololeap> in cabal, it's just defined in the .cabal file for the project
2021-10-12 04:50:02 +0000 <sclv> cabal is both
2021-10-12 04:50:28 +0000 <sclv> a build system and a dep management/orchestration system
2021-10-12 04:50:51 +0000 <sclv> both nix and stack use the build system component
2021-10-12 04:51:05 +0000 <sclv> (aka “Cabal the library”)
2021-10-12 04:51:32 +0000 <sclv> (aka calling Setup.hs)
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2021-10-12 05:10:24 +0000 <Phantastes> :quit
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2021-10-12 05:13:17 +0000 <sm> justsomeguy: ohh.. quite a lot to know
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2021-10-12 07:04:01 +0000 <tomsmeding> jmcantrell: I'm fairly sure the ghcup installer asks before writing stuff to your shell config
2021-10-12 07:04:16 +0000eggplantade(~Eggplanta@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:d130:ee1a:7e8:282d) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2021-10-12 07:05:43 +0000haskl(~haskl@user/haskl) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-10-12 07:06:05 +0000 <mc47> Hello, how could I link to the "Contents" page using haddock?
2021-10-12 07:06:27 +0000 <jmcantrell> tomsmeding: it doesn't if you have BOOTSTRAP_HASKELL_NONINTERACTIVE set
2021-10-12 07:06:46 +0000 <tomsmeding> ah
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2021-10-12 07:37:57 +0000merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
2021-10-12 07:39:52 +0000jgeerds(~jgeerds@55d4da80.access.ecotel.net)
2021-10-12 07:43:16 +0000 <maerwald[m]> Jeremy Cantrell: huh?
2021-10-12 07:43:40 +0000 <maerwald[m]> https://gitlab.haskell.org/haskell/ghcup-hs/-/blob/master/scripts/bootstrap/bootstrap-haskell#L337
2021-10-12 07:44:01 +0000beaky_beaky
2021-10-12 07:44:36 +0000 <maerwald[m]> It doesn't adjust bashrc in non-interactive mode, unless you set ${BOOTSTRAP_HASKELL_ADJUST_BASHRC
2021-10-12 07:47:47 +0000 <jmcantrell> maerwald: this block will modify the shell rc regardless https://gitlab.haskell.org/haskell/ghcup-hs/-/blob/master/scripts/bootstrap/bootstrap-haskell#L379
2021-10-12 07:48:51 +0000 <maerwald[m]> No
2021-10-12 07:49:06 +0000 <maerwald[m]> Because the valul is 0
2021-10-12 07:52:42 +0000 <jmcantrell> I’m wondering now if I had BOOTSTRAP_HASKELL_ADJUST_BASHRC set.
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2021-10-12 08:09:41 +0000 <kuribas> Is there a good way to turn off shrinking in quickcheck?
2021-10-12 08:10:09 +0000 <merijn> don't implement a shrink function, like half of people... :p
2021-10-12 08:10:10 +0000azeem(~azeem@2a00:801:44a:7af2:af4a:bfcd:ab75:2b7e) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-10-12 08:10:17 +0000 <kuribas> it's very useful :)
2021-10-12 08:10:23 +0000azeem(~azeem@emp-85-170.eduroam.uu.se)
2021-10-12 08:10:24 +0000 <kuribas> except not for this one testcase.
2021-10-12 08:10:33 +0000 <kuribas> hmm, "forall arbitrary" could work.
2021-10-12 08:11:07 +0000 <kuribas> because for this testcase, the second parameter depends on the value of the first, and shrinking discards that dependency.
2021-10-12 08:11:30 +0000 <kuribas> merijn: why don't people implement it?
2021-10-12 08:12:09 +0000 <kuribas> too much work, or not useful?
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2021-10-12 08:19:12 +0000 <tomsmeding> too much work
2021-10-12 08:19:31 +0000 <kuribas> hmm, it was fairly easy in my case, I just used the existing combinators.
2021-10-12 08:19:50 +0000 <tomsmeding> yes, the amount of work required is not necessarily equal to the amount of work people think it is :p
2021-10-12 08:20:07 +0000 <kuribas> namely shinkList
2021-10-12 08:20:23 +0000 <kuribas> in othercases it seems to be just some boilerplate code.
2021-10-12 08:20:41 +0000 <tomsmeding> also not much tells you to do it in the first place, to be honest. For me personally, I know well that Arbitrary has a method arbitrary, but I consistently forget that it also has shrink
2021-10-12 08:20:58 +0000 <tomsmeding> if you forget to define 'shrink', nothing tells you that you're missing out on functionality
2021-10-12 08:21:08 +0000 <kuribas> right, it will default to no shrinking.
2021-10-12 08:21:11 +0000notzmv(~zmv@user/notzmv)
2021-10-12 08:21:12 +0000 <tomsmeding> yeah
2021-10-12 08:21:20 +0000tdaeayusr^(~tdaeayusr@wsip-70-165-23-55.mc.at.cox.net)
2021-10-12 08:22:24 +0000 <tomsmeding> conjecture: if 'shrink' was a non-optional method of the type class, half of the people merijn mentioned would now implement shrink, and the other half would complain that they have to write 'shrink = const []'
2021-10-12 08:22:49 +0000 <tomsmeding> s/const []/shrinkNothing/
2021-10-12 08:28:38 +0000gehmehgeh(~user@user/gehmehgeh)
2021-10-12 08:30:13 +0000 <kuribas> that sounds like a more sensible default.
2021-10-12 08:34:29 +0000Guest9067(~Guest90@2a02:c7f:221d:e300:8dbe:6527:886b:8092)
2021-10-12 08:34:51 +0000 <merijn> kuribas: People forget and the default is bad
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2021-10-12 08:39:51 +0000 <kuribas> is there another possible default?
2021-10-12 08:39:54 +0000jpds(~jpds@gateway/tor-sasl/jpds)
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2021-10-12 08:41:05 +0000 <merijn> There was a talk I saw on hedgehog (I think?) where it forces you to implement shrinking
2021-10-12 08:47:41 +0000hyiltiz(~quassel@31.220.5.250) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-10-12 08:48:25 +0000 <sshine> Hedgehog does the shrinking for you
2021-10-12 08:48:46 +0000 <sshine> https://www.fpcomplete.com/blog/quickcheck-hedgehog-validity/
2021-10-12 08:48:54 +0000 <kuribas> sshine: that looks impossible for the general case
2021-10-12 08:49:33 +0000 <sshine> I'm not saying it's without problems.
2021-10-12 08:49:56 +0000 <sshine> from tfa: "Hedgehog explicitly makes a tradeoff when it comes to shrinking. The Hedgehog authors chose to make shrinking sub-optimal in order to build it into generators.
2021-10-12 08:50:14 +0000ubert1(~Thunderbi@91.141.52.193.wireless.dyn.drei.com)
2021-10-12 08:50:58 +0000 <kuribas> then it doesn't do it for you, but it requires you to make a generator in such a way that it can do shrinking.
2021-10-12 08:52:26 +0000 <sshine> well, you don't think much about the shrinking when you do the generator.
2021-10-12 08:53:02 +0000 <sshine> you do think more about the generator, though. because the range objects that describe the probability distribution are explicit.
2021-10-12 08:53:11 +0000 <sshine> (an alternative to the size param)
2021-10-12 08:58:26 +0000fendor_(~fendor@178.165.172.248.wireless.dyn.drei.com)
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2021-10-12 09:03:53 +0000hyiltiz(~quassel@31.220.5.250)
2021-10-12 09:05:07 +0000 <jackdk> Is there an easy way to ask `cabal` to consider package candidates when solving dependencies?
2021-10-12 09:05:23 +0000 <merijn> jackdk: There's an overlay you can use
2021-10-12 09:05:30 +0000 <merijn> But I'll be damned if I remember how :p
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2021-10-12 09:21:57 +0000ocramz(~user@c80-216-51-213.bredband.tele2.se)
2021-10-12 09:22:11 +0000 <ocramz> o/
2021-10-12 09:23:39 +0000azimut_(~azimut@gateway/tor-sasl/azimut) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2021-10-12 09:23:48 +0000 <ocramz> what's a good syntax for counting binders of a simply-typed lambda calculus at the type level? I'm thinking of a simple AST with only 'let', no beta reduction
2021-10-12 09:24:47 +0000 <ocramz> other than 'let', the operations would be only arithmetic basically
2021-10-12 09:27:32 +0000 <ocramz> I'm trying with GADT syntax: ALet :: KnownNat n => v -> (v -> AST n v) -> AST (1 + n) v
2021-10-12 09:27:45 +0000 <merijn> oof
2021-10-12 09:27:52 +0000 <merijn> Have you looked at Bound?
2021-10-12 09:27:54 +0000 <merijn> @hackage bound
2021-10-12 09:27:54 +0000 <lambdabot> https://hackage.haskell.org/package/bound
2021-10-12 09:28:53 +0000 <ocramz> I have, in the past, but as everything in the Kmettoverse, I need something simpler
2021-10-12 09:29:06 +0000 <ocramz> merijn : what's the 'oof' for?
2021-10-12 09:29:08 +0000 <merijn> your solution is...a billion times harder
2021-10-12 09:29:17 +0000 <ocramz> please elaborate
2021-10-12 09:29:36 +0000 <merijn> ocramz: Dealing with KnownNat and type level math is super painful
2021-10-12 09:30:05 +0000 <ocramz> I know, this is why I specified 'no beta reduction': the counter only goes up
2021-10-12 09:32:10 +0000 <merijn> I mean, why not just "not track that in the type"? That seems much simpler
2021-10-12 09:32:51 +0000 <kuribas> why do people want to do so much type programming in haskell? Usually it's more pain than gain.
2021-10-12 09:32:57 +0000 <kuribas> Is in, almost always.
2021-10-12 09:33:29 +0000o1lo01ol1o(~o1lo01ol1@2001:8a0:6d7a:df01:5007:2c53:48ea:4b67) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-10-12 09:34:04 +0000 <lortabac> ocramz: did you have a look at Stitch by Richard Eisenberg?
2021-10-12 09:34:47 +0000 <lortabac> I have a vague memory that it does what you are trying to do
2021-10-12 09:39:40 +0000 <maerwald> kuribas: ego
2021-10-12 09:39:41 +0000ocramz(~user@c80-216-51-213.bredband.tele2.se) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-10-12 09:40:05 +0000 <kuribas> maerwald: what does that have to do with it?
2021-10-12 09:40:23 +0000 <maerwald> it's satisfying in a weird way when no one else understands your own code
2021-10-12 09:40:31 +0000ocramz(~user@c80-216-51-213.bredband.tele2.se)
2021-10-12 09:40:38 +0000 <kuribas> pride perhaps
2021-10-12 09:40:51 +0000 <maerwald> trying to be smart is a pretty common theme in programming
2021-10-12 09:40:54 +0000 <maerwald> in all sorts of ways
2021-10-12 09:41:09 +0000 <kuribas> But it's normal when you're learning, you want to know all the fancy stuff, and use it :)
2021-10-12 09:41:21 +0000 <lortabac> maerwald: I disagree
2021-10-12 09:41:40 +0000 <ocramz> lortabac: yes that's a good suggestion. I'll look at Stitch
2021-10-12 09:41:54 +0000 <kuribas> It's only after you know it you realize that most of the time the simple solution is better.
2021-10-12 09:42:53 +0000 <lortabac> personally I tend to end up with complex type computations when I try to encode invariants in types in the most accurate way
2021-10-12 09:43:08 +0000 <kuribas> lortabac: yeah, I try not to do that.
2021-10-12 09:43:08 +0000 <lortabac> then 99% I give up because it's too complex
2021-10-12 09:43:17 +0000 <kuribas> indeed
2021-10-12 09:43:27 +0000 <lortabac> but the main motivator is certainly not ego nor pride
2021-10-12 09:44:00 +0000 <kuribas> yeah, it's more when you're learning that you take pride in understanding the complicated stuff.
2021-10-12 09:44:04 +0000 <lortabac> it's just following a certain way of representing the business domain and taking it to its extreme consequences
2021-10-12 09:44:38 +0000 <maerwald> I didn't say ego was bad, but I believe it's pretty hard to understand the effects of your own
2021-10-12 09:44:48 +0000 <maerwald> it plays a vital role in learning for sure
2021-10-12 09:45:09 +0000 <Franciman> if you don't do it for teh lulz, then why
2021-10-12 09:45:34 +0000 <kuribas> pride is not a bad thing, it motivates you to get better.
2021-10-12 09:46:40 +0000ocramz(~user@c80-216-51-213.bredband.tele2.se) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-10-12 09:46:50 +0000 <Franciman> so is pride in being the best
2021-10-12 09:46:58 +0000mestre(~mestre@191.177.175.57) (Quit: Lost terminal)
2021-10-12 09:47:14 +0000 <kuribas> nobody is the best.
2021-10-12 09:47:15 +0000 <maerwald> that's pretty hard in the internet age lol
2021-10-12 09:47:22 +0000 <maerwald> gives you burnout quickly
2021-10-12 09:47:49 +0000 <Franciman> go tell your pride that :D
2021-10-12 09:47:54 +0000 <kuribas> pride in being the best is a mental condition.
2021-10-12 09:48:00 +0000 <maerwald> there's alsways someone smarter in Russia
2021-10-12 09:48:08 +0000 <lortabac> :D
2021-10-12 09:48:33 +0000 <kuribas> and it leads to a lot of anxiety
2021-10-12 09:48:47 +0000 <maerwald> I think we turned this into a shrink session
2021-10-12 09:49:13 +0000 <kuribas> maerwald: well, you started about ego :)
2021-10-12 09:49:23 +0000 <Franciman> he is german
2021-10-12 09:49:38 +0000 <Franciman> they started it a long time ago
2021-10-12 09:49:45 +0000 <Franciman> :D
2021-10-12 09:51:52 +0000 <kuribas> I find there is always tension between wanting to learn new stuff, and using it practically.
2021-10-12 09:52:34 +0000 <maerwald> I only learned Haskell, because an internet friend was doing it and I got anxious about him being smarter
2021-10-12 09:52:51 +0000 <maerwald> "damn, I'll show you"
2021-10-12 09:53:05 +0000 <Franciman> ahahah
2021-10-12 09:53:07 +0000 <maerwald> I stopped trying when he moved to Agda
2021-10-12 09:53:22 +0000 <Franciman> that friend was the creator of agda
2021-10-12 09:53:41 +0000 <Hecate> maerwald: and now you're stuck with a kid^W^Wghcup :P
2021-10-12 09:53:47 +0000 <maerwald> crap
2021-10-12 09:54:38 +0000 <Franciman> maerwald: what got you into ghcup at first?
2021-10-12 09:54:46 +0000 <Franciman> trying to emulate stack?
2021-10-12 09:55:00 +0000 <maerwald> Franciman: my own bashrc becoming complicated
2021-10-12 09:55:12 +0000 <Franciman> fair
2021-10-12 09:57:17 +0000 <maerwald> https://gitlab.haskell.org/haskell/ghcup/-/issues/1
2021-10-12 09:57:26 +0000 <maerwald> there were a few shell scripts floating around too
2021-10-12 09:58:21 +0000 <Franciman> :')
2021-10-12 09:58:43 +0000 <Franciman> I still fail to see an use for custom built ghcs, like with integer-simple
2021-10-12 09:58:51 +0000 <maerwald> https://github.com/sol/ghc-env
2021-10-12 09:58:54 +0000 <Franciman> but maybe that's because I never program on anything strange
2021-10-12 09:58:57 +0000 <maerwald> don't remember that even
2021-10-12 09:59:09 +0000ocramz(~user@c80-216-51-213.bredband.tele2.se)
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2021-10-12 09:59:29 +0000 <Franciman> maerwald: I only ever knew about ghcup
2021-10-12 09:59:35 +0000Farzad(~FarzadBek@178.131.28.9)
2021-10-12 09:59:35 +0000 <Franciman> because it had the easiset install method
2021-10-12 09:59:36 +0000 <Franciman> :P
2021-10-12 09:59:56 +0000 <Franciman> so being a bash script was a win, over having to run stack, in those ages stack was raging over
2021-10-12 10:00:17 +0000 <Franciman> I was so angry that I could not use it, because I kept forgetting the names of the commands
2021-10-12 10:00:29 +0000 <Franciman> memoeries
2021-10-12 10:01:01 +0000maerwaldgoes back to doing type level programming
2021-10-12 10:01:49 +0000 <kuribas> maerwald: you should try idris :)
2021-10-12 10:02:07 +0000AlexZenon(~alzenon@178.34.161.78) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-10-12 10:02:07 +0000hgolden(~hgolden2@cpe-172-114-81-123.socal.res.rr.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-10-12 10:02:10 +0000 <maerwald> I tried liquidhaskell
2021-10-12 10:02:21 +0000 <Franciman> that's rad
2021-10-12 10:02:22 +0000hgolden(~hgolden2@cpe-172-114-81-123.socal.res.rr.com)
2021-10-12 10:02:28 +0000AlexZenon(~alzenon@178.34.161.78)
2021-10-12 10:02:47 +0000 <maerwald> and F*... which isn't really usable as a general purpose programming language
2021-10-12 10:02:57 +0000 <Franciman> F* the one with effects?
2021-10-12 10:03:09 +0000__monty__(~toonn@user/toonn)
2021-10-12 10:03:29 +0000 <maerwald> I guess
2021-10-12 10:03:47 +0000Gurkenglas_(~Gurkengla@dslb-002-203-144-204.002.203.pools.vodafone-ip.de)
2021-10-12 10:03:58 +0000 <Franciman> I've heard lexilambda working on delconts as primitives of ghc
2021-10-12 10:04:00 +0000 <Franciman> hence
2021-10-12 10:04:09 +0000 <Franciman> effects as in efficient effects raging over haskell
2021-10-12 10:04:13 +0000Francimancan't wait
2021-10-12 10:04:15 +0000 <maerwald> the main issue I have with these things is... the design space is so extremely huge, what are you gonna do with it?
2021-10-12 10:04:22 +0000 <maerwald> Haven't seen anyone address this
2021-10-12 10:04:27 +0000 <ocramz> kuribas : I try to avoid type-level origami as much as I can. In this particular case, I'm working with staged compilation of functions, and I really need to keep track of how many free variables the generated function will have
2021-10-12 10:04:29 +0000 <Franciman> these things -> *?
2021-10-12 10:05:04 +0000 <maerwald> Franciman: dependent types, effects systems, linear types, refinement types, ...
2021-10-12 10:05:25 +0000 <Franciman> they want to get code that's easier to reason about and prove correct
2021-10-12 10:05:30 +0000 <kuribas> ocramz: but why at type level?
2021-10-12 10:05:32 +0000azeem(~azeem@emp-85-170.eduroam.uu.se) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-10-12 10:05:39 +0000 <maerwald> Franciman: that's not what I mean with design space
2021-10-12 10:05:53 +0000 <Franciman> oh ok sorry, then I ddidn't get the question
2021-10-12 10:05:56 +0000nschoe(~quassel@178.251.84.79)
2021-10-12 10:05:58 +0000ByronJohnson(~bairyn@mail.digitalkingdom.org) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-10-12 10:06:03 +0000 <maerwald> design space is the art of sitting down in front of an empty code editor and getting ideas about what to do
2021-10-12 10:06:20 +0000 <Franciman> ah ahhh
2021-10-12 10:06:21 +0000 <Franciman> ahhh
2021-10-12 10:06:27 +0000glguy_(x@libera/staff/glguy)
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2021-10-12 10:06:42 +0000 <maerwald> We have barely figured out the design space of simple functional programming
2021-10-12 10:06:59 +0000 <kuribas> ocramz: if you want to verify it, write it in coq and export to haskell :)
2021-10-12 10:07:31 +0000 <Franciman> does coq eqsport to haskell?
2021-10-12 10:07:39 +0000mestre(~mestre@191.177.175.57)
2021-10-12 10:07:40 +0000 <ocramz> kuribas: thanks, but most likely not. I don't need formal proof in this case
2021-10-12 10:07:50 +0000 <Franciman> that's game changing, who needs haskell anymore then
2021-10-12 10:07:53 +0000ByronJohnson(~bairyn@mail.digitalkingdom.org)
2021-10-12 10:07:56 +0000ghoulguy(x@libera/staff/glguy) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-10-12 10:08:05 +0000 <kuribas> ocramz: I don't enough about your problem to give a meaningful answer...
2021-10-12 10:09:01 +0000azeem(~azeem@emp-85-170.eduroam.uu.se)
2021-10-12 10:09:18 +0000 <ocramz> kuribas: re. your question why tracking # of binders at the type level. My output is a variadic function, i.e. a -> r , a -> b -> r , etc. The input is an AST that will compile to that
2021-10-12 10:09:57 +0000 <ocramz> I do this by piecing together bits of code with typed template haskell
2021-10-12 10:10:10 +0000enoq(~enoq@2a05:1141:1f5:5600:b9c9:721a:599:bfe7)
2021-10-12 10:10:34 +0000 <ocramz> I mean sure, you don't _need_ type-level stuff for this, but the alternative is building template haskell splices like a caveman
2021-10-12 10:10:48 +0000 <kuribas> ocramz: did you consider generics?
2021-10-12 10:11:14 +0000 <kuribas> ocramz: in particular, I like generics-eot: https://hackage.haskell.org/package/generics-eot-0.4.0.1/docs/Generics-Eot.html
2021-10-12 10:12:39 +0000 <ocramz> kuribas: this is for data though, how are functions constructed with generics?
2021-10-12 10:13:10 +0000 <kuribas> ocramz: instead of returning a variadic function you could return a polymorphic function a -> r, (a, b) -> r, ...
2021-10-12 10:15:31 +0000azeem(~azeem@emp-85-170.eduroam.uu.se) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2021-10-12 10:16:39 +0000kmein_kmein
2021-10-12 10:17:08 +0000 <ocramz> kuribas : I'll need to think about this one. What's the relationship between a, (a, b), (a, b, c) then? a type family?
2021-10-12 10:17:46 +0000 <kuribas> ocramz: a typeclass?
2021-10-12 10:19:44 +0000azeem(~azeem@emp-85-170.eduroam.uu.se)
2021-10-12 10:23:03 +0000 <maerwald> do we have a syscall sandbox in haskell?
2021-10-12 10:23:54 +0000 <ocramz> maerwald : that would be handy
2021-10-12 10:24:02 +0000 <ocramz> not that I know of though
2021-10-12 10:25:42 +0000 <maerwald> who do I pay to do this?
2021-10-12 10:25:52 +0000 <ocramz> Well Typed ?
2021-10-12 10:25:59 +0000 <maerwald> good call
2021-10-12 10:26:49 +0000 <maerwald> maybe lambdabot already has something like it?
2021-10-12 10:29:20 +0000 <ocramz> maerwald : for sure. mueval too : there was this "safe IO"
2021-10-12 10:29:29 +0000 <ocramz> https://hackage.haskell.org/package/mueval
2021-10-12 10:29:40 +0000feliix42(~felix@gibbs.uberspace.de) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-10-12 10:29:55 +0000 <ocramz> sorry I had the wrong string in my paste buffer
2021-10-12 10:30:27 +0000 <maerwald> seems like it's more of some trickery than an actual sandbox
2021-10-12 10:30:31 +0000 <maerwald> and doesn't support IO
2021-10-12 10:30:55 +0000 <ocramz> the only safe IO is no IO at all
2021-10-12 10:31:09 +0000 <maerwald> you can restrict syscalls
2021-10-12 10:32:03 +0000 <maerwald> https://git.exherbo.org/sydbox-1.git/tree/
2021-10-12 10:32:43 +0000 <ocramz> what are we looking at here
2021-10-12 10:32:57 +0000 <maerwald> here's another one https://gitweb.gentoo.org/proj/sandbox.git/tree/
2021-10-12 10:33:29 +0000 <maerwald> you can restrict network, filesystem access to certain directories etc
2021-10-12 10:33:30 +0000acidjnk(~acidjnk@p200300d0c703cb2275eb5b612d153f04.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2021-10-12 10:34:30 +0000 <maerwald> https://www.kernel.org/doc/html/v4.16/userspace-api/seccomp_filter.html
2021-10-12 10:35:27 +0000 <maerwald> https://hackage.haskell.org/package/hsseccomp-0.1.0.2 outdated bindings
2021-10-12 10:36:51 +0000 <maerwald> but Linus said "we never break user space"
2021-10-12 10:36:55 +0000 <maerwald> so should just work, right?
2021-10-12 10:39:06 +0000feliix42(~felix@gibbs.uberspace.de)
2021-10-12 10:40:29 +0000 <ocramz> maerwald : this seems relevant https://hsyl20.fr/home/posts/2014-04-01-libc-considered-harmful.html
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2021-10-12 10:43:13 +0000 <maerwald> just gonna throw money in some directions
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2021-10-12 11:22:37 +0000 <merijn> maerwald: If only linux supported OpenBSD's pledge
2021-10-12 11:23:26 +0000 <merijn> Incidentally, that libc post wouldn't work on OpenBSD anymore
2021-10-12 11:23:47 +0000 <merijn> Apparently OpenBSD now kills any process that tries to make syscalls from anything other than libc...
2021-10-12 11:24:04 +0000fwiw(~fwiw@2001:448a:5102:c2c1:8976:a626:188e:3592) ()
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2021-10-12 11:56:27 +0000 <fendor_> can I have two instances of a typeclass where one has more constraints than the other? Intention is basically a typelevel pattern match, if this type satisfies the given constraints, use this implementation, otherwise use the other. (or a an explicit instance for that type)
2021-10-12 11:56:31 +0000fendor_fendor
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2021-10-12 11:58:08 +0000 <merijn> fendor: No, not if you plan to remain sane (and maybe not even if you're willing to sacrifice your sanity)
2021-10-12 11:58:34 +0000 <merijn> fendor: tbh, it sounds like what you want is "can I have a default implementation based on another typeclass Foo with the option to override it", though
2021-10-12 11:59:00 +0000 <fendor> yeah true I guess, so a default method might work?
2021-10-12 11:59:40 +0000 <merijn> default method *will* work, with the caveat that your forced to explicitly write "instance MyClass Bar" to define the instance when using the default version
2021-10-12 11:59:48 +0000 <merijn> Small price to pay to preserve your sanity, though
2021-10-12 11:59:59 +0000 <fendor> yeah, that seems sensible
2021-10-12 12:01:06 +0000 <merijn> At the very least it will be much more robust and maintainable than any type-level, constraint-based dispatch :p
2021-10-12 12:01:15 +0000 <fendor> awesome, thanks!
2021-10-12 12:01:50 +0000 <merijn> fendor: I use DefaultSignatures to great effect for exactly this case here: https://github.com/merijn/validated-literals/blob/master/ValidLiterals.hs#L86-L88
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2021-10-12 12:41:04 +0000 <sshine> counting binders?
2021-10-12 12:41:18 +0000 <sshine> oops, chronologically challenged.
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2021-10-12 12:48:16 +0000 <merijn> Not necessarily chronologically challenged, more temporally challenged :p
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2021-10-12 13:22:25 +0000 <dexterfoo> what flag do i pass to ghci to ignore .ghc.environment file?
2021-10-12 13:22:31 +0000 <hololeap> what would be the recommended library to use to create an oscilloscope visual in haskell? something with gl?
2021-10-12 13:23:47 +0000 <geekosaur> hololeap, possibly diagrams?
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2021-10-12 13:48:31 +0000 <hololeap> I need something that can do splines
2021-10-12 13:48:42 +0000 <hololeap> and a decent framerate
2021-10-12 13:49:36 +0000 <geekosaur> yeh, you're probably talking something gl-based. althoiugh I understand gloss has a poor frame rate
2021-10-12 13:50:35 +0000 <fryguybob> hololeap: What kind of splines?
2021-10-12 13:51:38 +0000 <hololeap> the normal kind? i'm not sure. I wanted to do a visual of a fourier transform over a sliding window of an audio file
2021-10-12 13:52:18 +0000 <hololeap> maybe I should use gnuradio...
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2021-10-12 13:53:14 +0000 <hololeap> if anyone is familiar with gnuradio's qt visualization widgets, that's kind of what I'm going for
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2021-10-12 13:55:40 +0000 <fryguybob> hololeap: Like this: https://wiki.gnuradio.org/images/f/f0/Freq-sink-ex.png ?
2021-10-12 13:56:08 +0000MQ-17J(~MQ-17J@35.50.77.148)
2021-10-12 13:56:28 +0000 <hololeap> yeah although they have an averaging function that makes it look more smooth
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2021-10-12 13:58:13 +0000 <fryguybob> hololeap: Like the top of this: https://github.com/xmikos/qspectrumanalyzer ?
2021-10-12 13:59:07 +0000 <hololeap> yeah
2021-10-12 13:59:10 +0000justsomeguy(~justsomeg@user/justsomeguy) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-10-12 14:00:09 +0000 <fryguybob> My guess is they are not using splines for that. Maybe some other averaging to smooth, but the results look good because of antialiasing more than anything else.
2021-10-12 14:00:41 +0000 <hololeap> hm, ok
2021-10-12 14:01:19 +0000 <fryguybob> Splines don't do very well with a high density of points.
2021-10-12 14:02:08 +0000 <fryguybob> They are modeling a "low energy path" through the points and having a lot of points constrains that path too much so all the paths are pretty high energy.
2021-10-12 14:02:22 +0000 <fryguybob> At least, that is one way to think of splines.
2021-10-12 14:02:29 +0000 <hololeap> I was thinking splines after the averaging function
2021-10-12 14:04:05 +0000 <fryguybob> For the example you would need subpixel points at which point linear interpolation would give better results.
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2021-10-12 14:17:45 +0000 <ocramz_> o/
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2021-10-12 14:28:32 +0000 <hololeap> fryguybob: that was a good explanation. I might end up using gpipe-glfw if I can figure it out
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2021-10-12 14:40:30 +0000 <fryguybob> hololeap: No problem. Note that getting anti-aliasing right can be tricky, you might have to care about alpha channels and how they are combined and the order of things.
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2021-10-12 15:44:40 +0000 <kuribas> or use a library that can draw a polyline antialiased?
2021-10-12 15:47:06 +0000lavaman(~lavaman@98.38.249.169)
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2021-10-12 15:51:23 +0000 <hololeap> kuribas: such as what?
2021-10-12 15:52:09 +0000 <kuribas> SDL?
2021-10-12 15:54:13 +0000tzh(~tzh@c-24-21-73-154.hsd1.or.comcast.net)
2021-10-12 15:54:34 +0000MQ-17J(~MQ-17J@8.48.133.28) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-10-12 15:55:27 +0000 <kuribas> https://wiki.libsdl.org/SDL_HINT_RENDER_SCALE_QUALITY
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2021-10-12 16:19:21 +0000 <sm> it does, I think monochrom ?
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2021-10-12 16:19:46 +0000 <sm> I've seen let a=1, b=2 in foo{..}, at least
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2021-10-12 16:25:12 +0000 <hololeap> kuribas: thanks
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2021-10-12 17:22:23 +0000 <maerwald> how do you find the location of the cabal config?
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2021-10-12 17:55:42 +0000 <dminuoso> maerwald: Judging from the code, I think you have to mimic its behavior
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2021-10-12 17:56:14 +0000 <maerwald> yeah, can run `cabal config init` and then read stdout lol
2021-10-12 17:56:23 +0000 <dminuoso> Which is either CABAL_DIR or https://hackage.haskell.org/package/directory-1.3.7.0/docs/System-Directory.html#v:getAppUserDataD…
2021-10-12 17:56:30 +0000 <dminuoso> Ah, or that I guess
2021-10-12 17:56:52 +0000 <dminuoso> maerwald: You can also just default to CABAL_DIR, and if not set mimic getAppUserDataDirectory "cabal" behavior
2021-10-12 17:57:06 +0000 <dminuoso> See src/Distribution/Client/Config.hs if need be
2021-10-12 17:57:27 +0000hrdl(~hrdl@mail.hrdl.eu) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-10-12 17:57:29 +0000 <maerwald> I was just trying to find the cabal config location in github windows actions env
2021-10-12 17:57:39 +0000 <dminuoso> %APPDATA%/cabal then
2021-10-12 17:57:45 +0000 <maerwald> appears it's 'C:\Users\runneradmin\AppData\Roaming\cabal\config'
2021-10-12 17:57:49 +0000 <dminuoso> Yes.
2021-10-12 17:57:57 +0000 <dminuoso> As per getAppUserDataDirectory "cabal"
2021-10-12 17:57:57 +0000 <maerwald> and chocolatey doesn't seem to create one
2021-10-12 17:58:23 +0000 <maerwald> which I find a little confusing, because how does it expose msys2 to cabal?
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2021-10-12 18:05:39 +0000 <maerwald> indeed, it doesn't add it
2021-10-12 18:05:44 +0000 <maerwald> now I'm confused
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2021-10-12 18:06:48 +0000 <sclv> maerwald: i think its the "haskell development environment" or similar that does it? i.e. not just cabal on its own
2021-10-12 18:06:48 +0000 <sclv> https://community.chocolatey.org/packages/haskell-dev#individual
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2021-10-12 18:07:08 +0000 <maerwald> that's not installed in actions/virtual-environments I guess
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2021-10-12 18:22:07 +0000 <sm> huh, new windows package manager coming: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28829716
2021-10-12 18:22:58 +0000 <maerwald> 40 years late or so
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2021-10-12 18:23:56 +0000geekosaur(~geekosaur@xmonad/geekosaur)
2021-10-12 18:25:27 +0000 <justsomeguy> I'm so glad I don't have to use Windows anymore.
2021-10-12 18:26:41 +0000 <shapr> same here, but most computer users do use Windows
2021-10-12 18:27:24 +0000 <Franciman> lately i've been told microsoft is more secure than linux
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2021-10-12 18:27:32 +0000 <Franciman> that may be a selling point for some
2021-10-12 18:27:59 +0000Pickchea(~private@user/pickchea)
2021-10-12 18:28:32 +0000 <geekosaur> with their record, I'm not sure I believe it. and their code signing is a joke
2021-10-12 18:28:54 +0000 <maerwald> I've been considering to switch to windows for a while, just so my thinkpad finally has working thermal throttling and suspend to ram
2021-10-12 18:29:50 +0000dyeplexer(~dyeplexer@user/dyeplexer) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-10-12 18:30:52 +0000 <justsomeguy> maerwald: https://tinyapps.org/blog/201811300700_windows_10_ltsc.html
2021-10-12 18:31:34 +0000 <maerwald> how does that help me broken linux hardware support? :)
2021-10-12 18:31:45 +0000 <maralorn> I am looking for a configuration language I can easily parse with haskell. I don‘t think I need it to be strongly typed, but I needs to be able to represent a tree.
2021-10-12 18:32:11 +0000 <maerwald> yaml
2021-10-12 18:32:31 +0000 <justsomeguy> maerwald: It doesn't, but at least if you have to use windows you can get an installation that probably harvests less of your personal information.
2021-10-12 18:33:27 +0000 <maerwald> yeah, I'm sure google-chrome on fedora doesn't harvest my cookies :p
2021-10-12 18:33:55 +0000 <geekosaur> there is of course chromium
2021-10-12 18:33:56 +0000 <maerwald> (although I'm using brave these days)
2021-10-12 18:34:36 +0000ocramz_(~user@c80-216-51-213.bredband.tele2.se)
2021-10-12 18:35:21 +0000 <geekosaur> of course I use enough other google stuff (gmail, keep, etc.) that I just use google-chrome and let big brother protect me :þ
2021-10-12 18:36:06 +0000hololeap(~hololeap@user/hololeap) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-10-12 18:36:07 +0000 <maerwald> if you have a mobile phone... what's the point of pretending you have privacy?
2021-10-12 18:36:35 +0000 <Franciman> I try to avoid using the computer for anything except coding and reading
2021-10-12 18:36:45 +0000 <Franciman> if they steal my pc, they do me a favour
2021-10-12 18:36:49 +0000 <Franciman> so I stop using it for a while
2021-10-12 18:36:57 +0000 <maerwald> they?
2021-10-12 18:37:11 +0000favonia(~favonia@user/favonia) (Quit: Leaving)
2021-10-12 18:37:11 +0000 <Franciman> i don't know how to speak in english
2021-10-12 18:37:12 +0000 <Franciman> sorry
2021-10-12 18:37:22 +0000 <justsomeguy> I wish my pinephone's battery lasted longer than 20 minutes. Then I could ditch my android smartphone.
2021-10-12 18:37:25 +0000 <Franciman> i keep getting the pronouns wrong
2021-10-12 18:37:55 +0000 <Franciman> when my programming language is done, I will abstain from coding
2021-10-12 18:37:57 +0000 <Franciman> forever
2021-10-12 18:38:03 +0000 <Franciman> and just close everything
2021-10-12 18:38:09 +0000 <Franciman> life goals
2021-10-12 18:38:09 +0000 <maerwald> and do what?
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2021-10-12 18:38:56 +0000 <Franciman> no idea :O
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2021-10-12 18:40:07 +0000 <maerwald> when you think you burned out it takes 3 months tops to figure out you actually are bored-out
2021-10-12 18:40:16 +0000 <maerwald> thin line
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2021-10-12 18:48:36 +0000 <sm> maralorn: would https://glguy.net/config-demo work ?
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2021-10-12 18:51:30 +0000 <dminuoso> maralorn: config-schema from glguy gets my vote too.
2021-10-12 18:51:34 +0000 <dminuoso> It's absolutely lovely.
2021-10-12 18:51:47 +0000 <dminuoso> Im not entirely sure it would support a tree though.
2021-10-12 18:51:57 +0000 <dminuoso> Well, config-value would at least.
2021-10-12 18:52:27 +0000 <maerwald> so I assume it doesn't have yaml anchors?
2021-10-12 18:53:01 +0000 <maralorn> thx, will evaluate it.
2021-10-12 18:53:07 +0000sedeki(~textual@user/sedeki) (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
2021-10-12 18:53:10 +0000 <maerwald> I'm still looking for something to deduplicate large yaml files without resorting to dhall
2021-10-12 18:53:20 +0000 <sm> dminuoso: what do you enjoy about it ?
2021-10-12 18:53:21 +0000 <maerwald> simple templating
2021-10-12 18:53:22 +0000fef(~thedawn@user/thedawn)
2021-10-12 18:53:40 +0000 <sm> maerwald: m4 ?
2021-10-12 18:53:45 +0000 <maerwald> lol
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2021-10-12 18:54:17 +0000ubert(~Thunderbi@77.119.211.49.wireless.dyn.drei.com)
2021-10-12 18:54:27 +0000 <sm> I'd say it's a good option if you don't have to change your templates much
2021-10-12 18:54:31 +0000 <dminuoso> sm: I get a really simple way to specify a config schema, derive a parser with decent diagnostics from it, and also have a way to output matching documentation.
2021-10-12 18:54:36 +0000 <sm> write once :)
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2021-10-12 18:54:41 +0000 <dminuoso> It's similarly convenient like servant
2021-10-12 18:54:51 +0000 <dminuoso> Except its much simpler to use
2021-10-12 18:55:03 +0000 <dminuoso> Or perhaps its sort of like optparse-applicative
2021-10-12 18:55:09 +0000 <dminuoso> yeah I think that comparison works better.
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2021-10-12 18:55:45 +0000 <sm> dminuoso: thanks, good to hear
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2021-10-12 18:59:37 +0000 <maerwald> so what are the dhall alternatives
2021-10-12 19:01:02 +0000Pickchea(~private@user/pickchea) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-10-12 19:01:24 +0000 <maerwald> https://github.com/bazelbuild/starlark
2021-10-12 19:01:27 +0000 <maerwald> oops
2021-10-12 19:01:39 +0000 <maerwald> your config interpreted
2021-10-12 19:02:19 +0000max22-(~maxime@lfbn-ren-1-762-224.w81-53.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2021-10-12 19:04:11 +0000 <maerwald> oh, jsonnet
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2021-10-12 19:05:31 +0000 <maralorn> Can I generate config-value from nix?
2021-10-12 19:06:18 +0000 <maerwald> oh, there is yaml templating: https://github.com/vmware-tanzu/carvel-ytt
2021-10-12 19:06:50 +0000merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
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2021-10-12 19:09:25 +0000wroathe(~wroathe@user/wroathe) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-10-12 19:09:29 +0000 <a6a45081-2b83> So I'm parsing a json and have an optional key-value pair, where I have modelled the value as Maybe String. I want to now also include a list of key values to the value, i.e. `V = Nothing | Just value | Just Map String String`
2021-10-12 19:09:48 +0000 <a6a45081-2b83> should I use `Maybe (Either String (Map String String))`?
2021-10-12 19:11:34 +0000 <monochrom> V = Zero | One String | Many (Map String String)
2021-10-12 19:12:09 +0000ub(~Thunderbi@77.119.211.49.wireless.dyn.drei.com)
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2021-10-12 19:14:10 +0000allbery_bgeekosaur
2021-10-12 19:15:06 +0000 <maerwald> Sounds like `Map String String` would theoretically work :p
2021-10-12 19:15:46 +0000 <maerwald> [] -> Zero, [("", "yo")] -> One, the other -> Many
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2021-10-12 19:21:06 +0000 <dminuoso> maralorn: There's no builtin primitives. And its not a superset of JSON either, so..
2021-10-12 19:21:34 +0000 <dminuoso> And there wouldn't be anything native sensibly, as you can have arbitrary atoms
2021-10-12 19:21:53 +0000 <dminuoso> But it shouldn't be too much of a hassle to write some toMyConfigSchema function
2021-10-12 19:21:53 +0000abhixec(~abhixec@c-67-169-139-16.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-10-12 19:21:55 +0000 <dminuoso> In nix
2021-10-12 19:22:09 +0000 <a6a45081-2b83> I am wondering how will I write FromJSON for V. i.e. `{}` (Nothing), `{"key": "value"}` (Just value), `{"key": {"key1": "value1", ...}}` (Map String String)
2021-10-12 19:22:13 +0000 <dminuoso> The main problem is that you'd have to encode some kind of schema in nix too
2021-10-12 19:24:37 +0000 <maerwald> a6a45081-2b83: parse the value depending on the key-name
2021-10-12 19:25:12 +0000 <dminuoso> maralorn: Is JSON not working for you?
2021-10-12 19:25:41 +0000isovector1(~isovector@172.103.216.166.cable.tpia.cipherkey.com)
2021-10-12 19:25:44 +0000ocramz_(~user@c80-216-51-213.bredband.tele2.se)
2021-10-12 19:26:29 +0000 <maralorn> dminuoso: json will probably work. I just was curious if there was something shiny and new.
2021-10-12 19:26:45 +0000 <isovector1> does anyone have a good understanding of how kind-generics represents existentials?
2021-10-12 19:27:07 +0000Pickchea(~private@user/pickchea)
2021-10-12 19:27:31 +0000 <dminuoso> maralorn: Well you can also go builtins.toDhall
2021-10-12 19:27:40 +0000 <dminuoso> maralorn: So that's the shiny/new way.
2021-10-12 19:27:51 +0000 <dminuoso> But I dont think "shiny/new" is a particularly good requirement.
2021-10-12 19:28:08 +0000 <dminuoso> It's better if you have technical/implementation requirements instead.
2021-10-12 19:28:23 +0000 <dminuoso> Sorry wait, toDhall is in lib/generators.nix, not builtins
2021-10-12 19:28:52 +0000 <a6a45081-2b83> I was thinking to pattern match in the FromJSON instance of V, i.e. instance FromJSON V where {parseJSON (Text t) = One t; parseJSON (Object v) = Many (parseJSON v)}
2021-10-12 19:28:55 +0000 <a6a45081-2b83> something like this
2021-10-12 19:29:06 +0000 <maralorn> dminuoso: Wouldn‘t "I want to smoothly represent a tree" prevent me from using dhall?
2021-10-12 19:29:31 +0000 <dminuoso> maralorn: What does "smoothly represent a tree" even mean?
2021-10-12 19:29:32 +0000 <maerwald> a6a45081-2b83: there are many ways to do it, yeah
2021-10-12 19:29:43 +0000 <maerwald> why not use stock deriving?
2021-10-12 19:30:27 +0000 <dminuoso> maralorn: Anything JSON-like, except null, can be turned into Dhall - and then the json or dhall representations are equivalent.
2021-10-12 19:30:31 +0000ocramz_(~user@c80-216-51-213.bredband.tele2.se) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
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2021-10-12 19:30:58 +0000 <dminuoso> You can turn attrsets, lists, numbers and bools into dhall. What more do you want?
2021-10-12 19:31:16 +0000 <dminuoso> But like I said. Without knowing what you're trying to solve, Im not convinced Dhall is the best.
2021-10-12 19:31:25 +0000 <dminuoso> JSON is easy enough to parse from Haskell, has builtin support in nix
2021-10-12 19:31:30 +0000 <dminuoso> And if it works, Id just go with that.
2021-10-12 19:31:43 +0000 <dminuoso> Just be careful with numbers appropriately (encode them via strings if necessary)
2021-10-12 19:31:46 +0000eggplantade(~Eggplanta@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:d130:ee1a:7e8:282d)
2021-10-12 19:32:45 +0000 <maralorn> [ { name: "Firefox", command: "/usr/bin/firefox" } { name: "Chatapps", menu: [ { name: "Element", command: "element-desktop" } ] ]
2021-10-12 19:33:01 +0000 <maralorn> I want to write something like that.
2021-10-12 19:33:29 +0000 <maralorn> Basically a list and every element is a command or a menu. Were a menu is again a list like that.
2021-10-12 19:34:00 +0000Tuplanolla(~Tuplanoll@91-159-69-50.elisa-laajakaista.fi) (Quit: Leaving.)
2021-10-12 19:34:12 +0000 <maralorn> And from what I remember writing a dhall type for that is basically impossible.
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2021-10-12 19:41:30 +0000merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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2021-10-12 19:47:57 +0000xsperry(~xs@user/xsperry)
2021-10-12 19:53:35 +0000 <koz> Is adding a new dependency a major or minor bump by PVP?
2021-10-12 19:54:27 +0000 <razor[m]> no ehy u think so
2021-10-12 19:54:44 +0000 <monochrom> I think a point bump.
2021-10-12 19:54:45 +0000 <razor[m]> it has always been a nice interchange
2021-10-12 19:54:50 +0000isovector1(~isovector@172.103.216.166.cable.tpia.cipherkey.com) (Quit: Leaving)
2021-10-12 19:55:09 +0000 <koz> monochrom: Sorry, what do you mean by a 'point bump'?
2021-10-12 19:55:20 +0000 <monochrom> Less than minor.
2021-10-12 19:55:22 +0000 <awpr> don't think PVP considers that to change the package's API at all, so I'd say it's a fourth-component bump
2021-10-12 19:55:37 +0000 <awpr> but if it adds instances for that package, then minor version IIRC
2021-10-12 19:55:41 +0000 <monochrom> major1.major2.minor.point
2021-10-12 19:55:44 +0000 <maerwald> four or 3 are the same, no?
2021-10-12 19:55:47 +0000wrengr(~wrengr@150.12.83.34.bc.googleusercontent.com) (Quit: Changing server)
2021-10-12 19:55:48 +0000 <maerwald> lol
2021-10-12 19:55:54 +0000 <maerwald> that sounded stupid
2021-10-12 19:56:06 +0000 <koz> OK, thanks.
2021-10-12 19:56:13 +0000maerwaldsees himself out
2021-10-12 19:56:36 +0000wrengr(~wrengr@150.12.83.34.bc.googleusercontent.com)
2021-10-12 19:58:20 +0000 <monochrom> I actually agree with major1.major2 acknowledging that there is a social, cultural difference between "not backward compatible but in a small way" and "not backward compatible but in a revolutionary way"
2021-10-12 19:58:24 +0000wrengr(~wrengr@150.12.83.34.bc.googleusercontent.com) (Client Quit)
2021-10-12 19:58:52 +0000myShoggoth(~myShoggot@97-120-70-214.ptld.qwest.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-10-12 19:59:01 +0000ocramz_(~user@c80-216-51-213.bredband.tele2.se)
2021-10-12 19:59:10 +0000 <monochrom> A major flaw of most programmers is they pretend that there is nothing other than technicalities.
2021-10-12 19:59:29 +0000wrengr(~wrengr@150.12.83.34.bc.googleusercontent.com)
2021-10-12 19:59:30 +0000 <monochrom> (Pun intended haha)
2021-10-12 20:01:36 +0000 <maerwald> the point of PVP is for someone to be able to ship bugfixes to older versions, but I've never seen anyone do that :D
2021-10-12 20:01:43 +0000chisui(~chisui@200116b8648f8d00a55308fa18a6b512.dip.versatel-1u1.de) (Quit: Client closed)
2021-10-12 20:01:53 +0000 <geekosaur> ghc?
2021-10-12 20:02:02 +0000 <maerwald> it's not even strictly PVP
2021-10-12 20:02:12 +0000 <geekosaur> true
2021-10-12 20:02:21 +0000 <awpr> I've made transitional versions with minor version bumps to let packages support two consecutive small-major versions
2021-10-12 20:02:35 +0000 <geekosaur> I think they're regretting most of the violations though (looking at you 8.10.5)
2021-10-12 20:02:44 +0000eggplantade(~Eggplanta@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:d130:ee1a:7e8:282d) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-10-12 20:02:48 +0000betelgeuse(~betelgeus@94-225-47-8.access.telenet.be) (Quit: The Lounge - https://thelounge.chat)
2021-10-12 20:03:24 +0000 <maerwald> I'd rather forge alliances and understand maintainers of the stuff I depend on, rather than assume communicating through a string is gonna be enough
2021-10-12 20:03:39 +0000 <maerwald> but that sounds crazy I guess
2021-10-12 20:03:44 +0000raehik(~raehik@cpc95906-rdng25-2-0-cust156.15-3.cable.virginm.net) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
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2021-10-12 20:04:04 +0000 <awpr> do alliances and mutual understanding help Cabal make correct build plans?
2021-10-12 20:04:26 +0000 <maerwald> during the year of the rabbit yes
2021-10-12 20:04:27 +0000 <awpr> my understanding is PVP is for build plans and alliances are for collaborating on evolving code
2021-10-12 20:05:05 +0000raehik(~raehik@cpc95906-rdng25-2-0-cust156.15-3.cable.virginm.net)
2021-10-12 20:05:11 +0000juhp(~juhp@128.106.188.220) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-10-12 20:05:22 +0000 <geekosaur> maerwald, you need only look at the dependencies of lens to see how that one fails
2021-10-12 20:06:11 +0000 <geekosaur> (yes, you do need to consider transitive dependencies)
2021-10-12 20:06:29 +0000sh9(~sh9@softbank060116136158.bbtec.net) (Quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2021-10-12 20:06:47 +0000juhp(~juhp@128.106.188.220)
2021-10-12 20:07:14 +0000 <maerwald> many companies just use git hashes :p
2021-10-12 20:07:23 +0000 <maerwald> rolling hashes
2021-10-12 20:07:29 +0000 <geekosaur> god help you when someone force pushes
2021-10-12 20:07:51 +0000 <maerwald> why?
2021-10-12 20:08:42 +0000 <geekosaur> seriously? because the hash you depend on is only in the reflog after that, you can't check it out any more
2021-10-12 20:08:50 +0000 <maerwald> force pushing doesn't remove a git commit from the server
2021-10-12 20:09:03 +0000 <maerwald> unless you run a GC
2021-10-12 20:09:27 +0000 <maerwald> for stuff like github, I think they keep it indefinitely
2021-10-12 20:10:08 +0000hexfive(~eric@50.35.83.177)
2021-10-12 20:10:11 +0000jgeerds(~jgeerds@55d4da80.access.ecotel.net)
2021-10-12 20:11:27 +0000 <maerwald> a new clone probably doesn't pull it, yeah
2021-10-12 20:12:14 +0000LiaoTao(~LiaoTao@gateway/tor-sasl/liaotao) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-10-12 20:12:50 +0000 <geekosaur> of course what this really tells you is "force pushing is bad, mmmkay?"
2021-10-12 20:13:06 +0000LiaoTao(~LiaoTao@gateway/tor-sasl/liaotao)
2021-10-12 20:13:21 +0000 <geekosaur> which is not to say I haven't done it, but I make sure I'm not stepping on any toes first
2021-10-12 20:14:18 +0000 <geekosaur> and only on pull requests, not regular branches
2021-10-12 20:14:43 +0000 <geekosaur> once it's landed I consider it immutable because I have nfc who might have pulled it
2021-10-12 20:15:29 +0000ocramz_(~user@c80-216-51-213.bredband.tele2.se)
2021-10-12 20:18:12 +0000 <maerwald> I'll switch to bazaar
2021-10-12 20:19:24 +0000 <maerwald> you can use it on svannah I believe https://savannah.gnu.org/
2021-10-12 20:19:31 +0000 <maerwald> modern interface, screw github
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2021-10-12 20:19:59 +0000dsrt^(~dsrt@wsip-70-165-23-55.mc.at.cox.net)
2021-10-12 20:20:55 +0000 <maerwald> there are job postings even
2021-10-12 20:21:23 +0000 <maerwald> https://savannah.gnu.org/people/?category_id=1 no haskell dev though
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2021-10-12 20:37:41 +0000pavonia(~user@user/siracusa)
2021-10-12 20:38:56 +0000 <Franciman> maerwald: srsly
2021-10-12 20:39:07 +0000 <maerwald> xD
2021-10-12 20:41:04 +0000 <Franciman> i like your stance
2021-10-12 20:42:32 +0000mikoto-chan(~mikoto-ch@ip-83-134-2-136.dsl.scarlet.be) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
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2021-10-12 20:46:13 +0000wroathe(~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) (Changing host)
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2021-10-12 21:00:32 +0000Arsen(~arsen@managarm/dev/Arsen) (Quit: Quit.)
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2021-10-12 21:00:53 +0000Arsen(~arsen@managarm/dev/Arsen)
2021-10-12 21:03:00 +0000Guest|8(~Guest|8@77.138.210.76)
2021-10-12 21:03:10 +0000eggplantade(~Eggplanta@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:d130:ee1a:7e8:282d)
2021-10-12 21:05:27 +0000 <Guest|8> hi, how can i uninstall haskell from windows? (cant find it on 'Add Or Remove Programs')
2021-10-12 21:06:19 +0000 <zzz> Guest|8: honestly? Linux subsystem
2021-10-12 21:07:36 +0000eggplantade(~Eggplanta@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:d130:ee1a:7e8:282d) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2021-10-12 21:07:50 +0000ubert(~Thunderbi@77.119.211.49.wireless.dyn.drei.com) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-10-12 21:07:50 +0000ububert
2021-10-12 21:08:18 +0000ocramz_(~user@c80-216-51-213.bredband.tele2.se)
2021-10-12 21:08:37 +0000 <sm> how did you install it ?
2021-10-12 21:09:29 +0000 <zzz> oh sorry. i read "install"
2021-10-12 21:11:28 +0000takuan(~takuan@178-116-218-225.access.telenet.be) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-10-12 21:13:07 +0000ocramz_(~user@c80-216-51-213.bredband.tele2.se) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-10-12 21:13:20 +0000 <Guest|8> from the official site - > https://www.haskell.org/downloads/
2021-10-12 21:14:03 +0000 <Guest|8> used powershell with the command Set-ExecutionPolicy Bypass -Scope Process -Force;[System.Net.ServicePointManager]::SecurityProtocol = [System.Net.ServicePointManager]::SecurityProtocol -bor 3072;Invoke-Command -ScriptBlock ([ScriptBlock]::Create((Invoke-WebRequest https://www.haskell.org/ghcup/sh/bootstrap-haskell.ps1 -UseBasicParsing)))
2021-10-12 21:14:04 +0000 <Guest|8> -ArgumentList $true
2021-10-12 21:16:18 +0000 <maerwald> Guest|8: there should be a desktop shortcut
2021-10-12 21:16:33 +0000 <Guest|8> its crashing when trying to create shortcut on some unexisting folder and when im trying to "reinstall" (while trying the command again) its crashing again
2021-10-12 21:17:06 +0000 <maerwald> it's failing to create the desktop shortcuts?
2021-10-12 21:17:47 +0000 <maerwald> more information please
2021-10-12 21:17:48 +0000a6a45081-2b83(~aditya@2601:249:4300:1296:88ec:cc73:84d4:1507) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-10-12 21:17:50 +0000 <Guest|8> it's failing to create a shortcut on some folder, its not the desktop one
2021-10-12 21:18:05 +0000 <maerwald> logs/screenshots
2021-10-12 21:18:39 +0000 <maerwald> usually there should be a "Uninstall Haskell" shortcut on your desktop
2021-10-12 21:19:43 +0000zer0bitz(~zer0bitz@dsl-hkibng31-54fafc-123.dhcp.inet.fi) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-10-12 21:20:25 +0000 <Guest|8> There's nothing there
2021-10-12 21:20:40 +0000 <Guest|8> Uploaded file: https://uploads.kiwiirc.com/files/b00a9313b1c6361da8637e19aebea40a/image.png
2021-10-12 21:21:00 +0000 <maerwald> well, so it does fail installing the desktop shortcuts
2021-10-12 21:21:00 +0000kmein_(~weechat@user/kmein)
2021-10-12 21:21:05 +0000 <Guest|8> i get this error when the downoad fails
2021-10-12 21:22:20 +0000 <maerwald> Guest|8: which windows version?
2021-10-12 21:22:36 +0000 <Guest|8> 10
2021-10-12 21:22:39 +0000Gurkenglas_(~Gurkengla@dslb-002-203-144-204.002.203.pools.vodafone-ip.de) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-10-12 21:23:04 +0000 <maerwald> Guest|8: can you run this in your powershell: [Environment]::GetFolderPath("Desktop")
2021-10-12 21:23:48 +0000Lord_of_Life_(~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915)
2021-10-12 21:23:53 +0000 <Guest|8> yeah
2021-10-12 21:23:58 +0000 <Guest|8> wait
2021-10-12 21:24:06 +0000kmein(~weechat@user/kmein) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-10-12 21:24:15 +0000 <Guest|8> no *O*
2021-10-12 21:24:16 +0000Lord_of_Life(~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2021-10-12 21:24:21 +0000 <maerwald> what?
2021-10-12 21:24:45 +0000ocramz_(~user@c80-216-51-213.bredband.tele2.se)
2021-10-12 21:25:16 +0000 <Guest|8> oh well the func doesnt recognized
2021-10-12 21:25:25 +0000 <Guest|8> I'll try something
2021-10-12 21:25:30 +0000coot(~coot@37.30.48.28.nat.umts.dynamic.t-mobile.pl) (Quit: coot)
2021-10-12 21:25:40 +0000 <maerwald> this is official windows API... there's something wrong if it doesn't work
2021-10-12 21:26:35 +0000Lord_of_Life_Lord_of_Life
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2021-10-12 21:37:39 +0000xaotuk(~sasha@89.110.231.41)
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2021-10-12 21:40:03 +0000eggplantade(~Eggplanta@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:d130:ee1a:7e8:282d)
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2021-10-12 21:44:51 +0000 <Guest|8> THANK YOU SO MUCH
2021-10-12 21:44:55 +0000 <Guest|8> ITS WORKING
2021-10-12 21:44:56 +0000 <maerwald> ?
2021-10-12 21:45:14 +0000 <maerwald> why
2021-10-12 21:45:22 +0000ocramz_(~user@c80-216-51-213.bredband.tele2.se) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-10-12 21:45:50 +0000justsomeguy(~justsomeg@user/justsomeguy)
2021-10-12 21:47:03 +0000 <Guest|8> the location was saved in my home language, with you ive fix it
2021-10-12 21:47:15 +0000 <maerwald> uhm
2021-10-12 21:47:22 +0000michalz(~michalz@185.246.204.72) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-10-12 21:47:33 +0000 <maerwald> what was the fix?
2021-10-12 21:47:45 +0000gehmehgeh(~user@user/gehmehgeh) (Quit: Leaving)
2021-10-12 21:48:26 +0000 <monochrom> Oh, do you mean "Desktop" is English, but your Windows is not using English?
2021-10-12 21:48:38 +0000 <Guest|8> changing the location to the default
2021-10-12 21:48:51 +0000 <maerwald> but why can't windows handle it?
2021-10-12 21:48:55 +0000 <maerwald> It's UTF-16
2021-10-12 21:49:21 +0000 <Guest|8> well idk
2021-10-12 21:49:50 +0000 <Guest|8> but its now wotking, so i I guess its al good
2021-10-12 21:50:14 +0000 <maerwald> I still don't like the taste of it
2021-10-12 21:50:21 +0000 <geekosaur> sounds like a bug to be fixed to me
2021-10-12 21:50:31 +0000 <geekosaur> need to find out more though
2021-10-12 21:50:38 +0000Null_A(~null_a@2601:645:8700:2290:cca9:9e4e:f1d8:3489) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-10-12 21:50:44 +0000 <geekosaur> what language is your normal locale?
2021-10-12 21:50:46 +0000 <maerwald> maybe encoding was mixed somehow
2021-10-12 21:51:13 +0000Null_A(~null_a@2601:645:8700:2290:cca9:9e4e:f1d8:3489)
2021-10-12 21:51:22 +0000 <Guest|8> idk
2021-10-12 21:51:50 +0000 <Guest|8> hebrew
2021-10-12 21:51:56 +0000 <Guest|8> אימאמלד אים
2021-10-12 21:52:00 +0000 <Guest|8> thanks tho
2021-10-12 21:52:13 +0000Guest|8(~Guest|8@77.138.210.76) (Quit: Connection closed)
2021-10-12 21:53:21 +0000 <awpr> just witnessed a https://xkcd.com/979/ in the making
2021-10-12 21:53:26 +0000 <maerwald> https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/visualstudio/code-quality/ca1302?view=vs-2019
2021-10-12 21:53:33 +0000 <maerwald> lol
2021-10-12 21:54:50 +0000 <maerwald> I'll ask over in #powershell
2021-10-12 21:55:15 +0000 <monochrom> I bet it's Environment.SpecialFolder.Desktop :)
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2021-10-12 21:57:08 +0000 <maerwald> I'm wondering what else might be broken
2021-10-12 21:57:12 +0000 <maerwald> this can't be the only thing
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2021-10-12 22:09:30 +0000 <zzz> have i mentioned WSL? oh i have... carry on
2021-10-12 22:10:10 +0000 <monochrom> WSL doesn't help build exes for Windows
2021-10-12 22:10:29 +0000hyiltiz(~quassel@31.220.5.250)
2021-10-12 22:10:30 +0000TheCoffeMaker(~TheCoffeM@user/thecoffemaker) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-10-12 22:11:58 +0000merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-10-12 22:12:13 +0000 <maerwald> if only one could reasonably cross-compile for windows
2021-10-12 22:12:15 +0000TheCoffeMaker(~TheCoffeM@user/thecoffemaker)
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2021-10-12 22:13:16 +0000 <zzz> monochrom: the point is to bypass windows completely
2021-10-12 22:13:19 +0000LiaoTao(~LiaoTao@gateway/tor-sasl/liaotao) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-10-12 22:13:48 +0000mestre(~mestre@191.177.175.57)
2021-10-12 22:13:51 +0000LiaoTao(~LiaoTao@gateway/tor-sasl/liaotao)
2021-10-12 22:14:06 +0000 <monochrom> That's probably not up to you are me to impose.
2021-10-12 22:14:14 +0000 <monochrom> err, s/are/or/
2021-10-12 22:14:53 +0000 <monochrom> <sarcastic>Sure, wouldn't the world be simpler if everyone did everything my way?</sarcastic>
2021-10-12 22:16:53 +0000mestre(~mestre@191.177.175.57) (Client Quit)
2021-10-12 22:17:22 +0000 <hpc> procrastination is compatible with all operating systems
2021-10-12 22:17:37 +0000 <jackdk> monochrom: I agree, the world would be simpler if everyone did everything my way.
2021-10-12 22:18:06 +0000 <int-e> operating systems do a ton of shit on demand
2021-10-12 22:20:34 +0000mestre(~mestre@191.177.175.57)
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2021-10-12 22:21:31 +0000 <maerwald> https://hastebin.com/raw/isugajeruh <- apparently that's the solution lol
2021-10-12 22:21:44 +0000 <maerwald> windows api is beautiful
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2021-10-12 22:23:56 +0000 <monochrom> Yikes haha handwritten GUID
2021-10-12 22:25:40 +0000ocramz_(~user@c80-216-51-213.bredband.tele2.se)
2021-10-12 22:26:15 +0000 <hpc> the guid format is already ridiculous, what's taking it a little bit further
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2021-10-12 22:30:50 +0000 <arahael> maerwald: I see that rule has been "deprecated" (that one you posted 30 min ago)
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2021-10-12 22:52:22 +0000analbleeding(6bbd1e16@67.205.143.82) (The Lounge - https://thelounge.chat)
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2021-10-12 22:55:00 +0000 <maralorn> Can someone tell me, what the Haskell equivalent of this function is? https://docs.rs/fork/0.1.18/fork/fn.daemon.html
2021-10-12 22:56:21 +0000ocramz_(~user@c80-216-51-213.bredband.tele2.se) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2021-10-12 22:56:51 +0000 <hpc> if you search "daemon" on hackage it'll probably come up
2021-10-12 23:01:40 +0000 <maralorn> hpc: thx. Apparently it’s System.Posix.Daemon.runDetached from deamons
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2021-10-12 23:07:13 +0000 <maralorn> Another question how can I get "exec" behavior in Haskell. I would like to terminate my process and run another command instead.
2021-10-12 23:07:51 +0000 <hpc> System.Process probably has it
2021-10-12 23:09:03 +0000 <hpc> you should spend some time just exploring hackage, looking for the usual things and neat other stuff
2021-10-12 23:09:26 +0000ocramz_(~user@c80-216-51-213.bredband.tele2.se)
2021-10-12 23:09:35 +0000 <hpc> like for arg parsing you can go the usual getopt way, or use optparse-applicative
2021-10-12 23:09:48 +0000 <maralorn> I looked through System.Process and I can‘t find it.
2021-10-12 23:09:49 +0000 <hpc> it'll answer a lot of these questions before you even know to ask them :D
2021-10-12 23:11:11 +0000 <hpc> ah, hmm
2021-10-12 23:12:20 +0000swistak(~swistak@185.21.216.141)
2021-10-12 23:12:38 +0000 <hpc> maybe the unix package?
2021-10-12 23:14:13 +0000 <maralorn> Hah, yeah. executeFile
2021-10-12 23:14:36 +0000 <maralorn> Not as flexible as I had hoped for, but better than nothing.
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2021-10-12 23:14:52 +0000 <sm> I see one in rio I think: https://hackage.haskell.org/package/rio-0.1.21.0/docs/RIO-Process.html#v:exec
2021-10-12 23:15:59 +0000 <hpc> it seems to be as powerful as execvpe
2021-10-12 23:16:33 +0000 <maralorn> Yeah, it can do what I want.
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