| 2021-10-01 00:00:01 +0200 | acidjnk_new | (~acidjnk@p200300d0c703cb763077999fa0268789.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 2021-10-01 00:03:19 +0200 | acidjnk_new3 | (~acidjnk@p200300d0c703cb763077999fa0268789.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2021-10-01 00:03:56 +0200 | gehmehgeh | (~user@user/gehmehgeh) (Quit: Leaving) |
| 2021-10-01 00:07:10 +0200 | mestre | (~mestre@191.177.175.57) |
| 2021-10-01 00:08:30 +0200 | eggplantade | (~Eggplanta@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:c44c:b521:4020:aaef) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2021-10-01 00:10:05 +0200 | eggplantade | (~Eggplanta@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:c44c:b521:4020:aaef) |
| 2021-10-01 00:12:58 +0200 | mehlon | (~mehlon@user/mehlon) (Quit: Leaving) |
| 2021-10-01 00:18:02 +0200 | y04nn | (~y04nn@193.32.127.238) |
| 2021-10-01 00:18:28 +0200 | sweater | (~sweater@206.81.18.26) (Quit: WeeChat 2.8) |
| 2021-10-01 00:18:48 +0200 | sweater | (~sweater@206.81.18.26) |
| 2021-10-01 00:19:05 +0200 | <mestre> | }/exit |
| 2021-10-01 00:19:09 +0200 | mestre | (~mestre@191.177.175.57) (Quit: leaving) |
| 2021-10-01 00:19:27 +0200 | mestre | (~mestre@191.177.175.57) |
| 2021-10-01 00:20:13 +0200 | free_functor | (~asdf@ip-64-72-99-234.lasvegas.net) |
| 2021-10-01 00:20:48 +0200 | free_functor | adjoint_cads |
| 2021-10-01 00:25:51 +0200 | amahl | (~amahl@dsl-jklbng12-54fbca-64.dhcp.inet.fi) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2021-10-01 00:26:24 +0200 | alzgh | (~alzgh@user/alzgh) |
| 2021-10-01 00:27:21 +0200 | noddy | (~user@user/noddy) (Quit: WeeChat 3.2) |
| 2021-10-01 00:29:17 +0200 | notzmv | (~zmv@user/notzmv) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2021-10-01 00:29:52 +0200 | noddy | (~user@user/noddy) |
| 2021-10-01 00:31:20 +0200 | notzmv | (~zmv@user/notzmv) |
| 2021-10-01 00:32:43 +0200 | fvr | (uid503686@id-503686.uxbridge.irccloud.com) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) |
| 2021-10-01 00:35:44 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) |
| 2021-10-01 00:42:45 +0200 | <adjoint_cads> | Functors! Huh! (Good God!) What are they good for? (Not much!) |
| 2021-10-01 00:42:52 +0200 | adjoint_cads | *DANCES* |
| 2021-10-01 00:43:44 +0200 | TranquilEcho | (~grom@user/tranquilecho) (Quit: WeeChat 2.8) |
| 2021-10-01 00:45:38 +0200 | <adjoint_cads> | Functors is something I despise! For it means destruction of innocent types. And thousands of lines in Monad's cries. Our sons write functional pearls and give their lives! |
| 2021-10-01 00:45:55 +0200 | <adjoint_cads> | Functors! Huh! (Good God!) What are they good for? (Not much!) |
| 2021-10-01 00:46:23 +0200 | ChanServ | +o monochrom |
| 2021-10-01 00:46:28 +0200 | monochrom | +b *!*@ip-64-72-99-234.lasvegas.net |
| 2021-10-01 00:46:28 +0200 | adjoint_cads | monochrom (adjoint_cads) |
| 2021-10-01 00:46:35 +0200 | monochrom | -o monochrom |
| 2021-10-01 00:47:41 +0200 | <Hecate> | :'') |
| 2021-10-01 00:48:37 +0200 | Tuplanolla | (~Tuplanoll@91-159-69-50.elisa-laajakaista.fi) (Quit: Leaving.) |
| 2021-10-01 00:52:16 +0200 | acidjnk | (~acidjnk@p200300d0c703cb763077999fa0268789.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2021-10-01 00:53:03 +0200 | acidjnk_new | (~acidjnk@p200300d0c703cb763077999fa0268789.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 2021-10-01 00:53:35 +0200 | sm2n | (~sm2n@user/sm2n) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2021-10-01 00:54:28 +0200 | <mestre> | :clap: |
| 2021-10-01 00:55:14 +0200 | sm2n | (~sm2n@user/sm2n) |
| 2021-10-01 00:56:52 +0200 | <hpc> | meanwhile in the numeric modules... "all we hear is Ratio Gaga" |
| 2021-10-01 00:56:56 +0200 | <hpc> | "Ratio Googoo" |
| 2021-10-01 00:57:10 +0200 | <monochrom> | haha |
| 2021-10-01 00:58:51 +0200 | <Hecate> | :D |
| 2021-10-01 00:58:56 +0200 | <Hecate> | Haskell, The Musical |
| 2021-10-01 00:59:04 +0200 | <Hecate> | after Erlang, The Movie |
| 2021-10-01 00:59:32 +0200 | <hpc> | coldfusion on ice |
| 2021-10-01 01:01:33 +0200 | vysn | (~vysn@user/vysn) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) |
| 2021-10-01 01:08:07 +0200 | [itchyjunk] | (~itchyjunk@user/itchyjunk/x-7353470) |
| 2021-10-01 01:08:08 +0200 | [_] | (~itchyjunk@user/itchyjunk/x-7353470) |
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| 2021-10-01 01:09:22 +0200 | dajoer | (~david@user/gvx) |
| 2021-10-01 01:13:07 +0200 | max22- | (~maxime@2a01cb08833598008dc43d9542692ebe.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2021-10-01 01:14:09 +0200 | roboguy_ | (~roboguy_@2605:a601:afe7:9f00:1985:e1e8:468b:4573) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2021-10-01 01:15:02 +0200 | bitdex | (~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex) |
| 2021-10-01 01:15:57 +0200 | acidjnk_new | (~acidjnk@p200300d0c703cb763077999fa0268789.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 2021-10-01 01:15:57 +0200 | acidjnk | (~acidjnk@p200300d0c703cb763077999fa0268789.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 2021-10-01 01:16:51 +0200 | [_] | (~itchyjunk@user/itchyjunk/x-7353470) (Quit: Leaving) |
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| 2021-10-01 01:17:27 +0200 | brainfreeze | (~brainfree@2a03:1b20:4:f011::20d) |
| 2021-10-01 01:23:58 +0200 | acidjnk_new | (~acidjnk@p200300d0c703cb763077999fa0268789.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) |
| 2021-10-01 01:23:58 +0200 | acidjnk | (~acidjnk@p200300d0c703cb763077999fa0268789.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) |
| 2021-10-01 01:24:47 +0200 | Gurkenglas_ | (~Gurkengla@dslb-002-203-144-204.002.203.pools.vodafone-ip.de) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2021-10-01 01:33:36 +0200 | ChanServ | +o monochrom |
| 2021-10-01 01:33:44 +0200 | monochrom | -b *!*@ip-64-72-99-234.lasvegas.net |
| 2021-10-01 01:33:49 +0200 | monochrom | -o monochrom |
| 2021-10-01 01:36:02 +0200 | mestre | (~mestre@191.177.175.57) (Quit: leaving) |
| 2021-10-01 01:39:04 +0200 | <jackdk> | Axman6: do you have slack or is your DNS still impacted? |
| 2021-10-01 01:42:29 +0200 | roboguy_ | (~roboguy_@2605:a601:afe7:9f00:1985:e1e8:468b:4573) |
| 2021-10-01 01:43:26 +0200 | lavaman | (~lavaman@98.38.249.169) |
| 2021-10-01 01:44:02 +0200 | mikoto-chan | (~mikoto-ch@83.137.2.243) |
| 2021-10-01 01:44:37 +0200 | <alzgh> | hello |
| 2021-10-01 01:44:59 +0200 | <alzgh> | what channel(s) are best for asking general Fedora questions? |
| 2021-10-01 01:45:35 +0200 | <alzgh> | like very advanced question, just normal ones about package management and stuff |
| 2021-10-01 01:46:29 +0200 | <alzgh> | sorry, this is Haskell |
| 2021-10-01 01:46:35 +0200 | <alzgh> | confused it with libera |
| 2021-10-01 01:46:44 +0200 | <geekosaur> | there is #fedora |
| 2021-10-01 01:46:49 +0200 | <geekosaur> | with some 1300 users |
| 2021-10-01 01:47:02 +0200 | <alzgh> | yeah, I asked there and no one answere |
| 2021-10-01 01:47:12 +0200 | <alzgh> | they are talking about kernel compiling and stuff |
| 2021-10-01 01:47:30 +0200 | <alzgh> | I thought maybe the question isn't appropriate for the level of that channel |
| 2021-10-01 01:47:53 +0200 | lavaman | (~lavaman@98.38.249.169) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2021-10-01 01:48:49 +0200 | <zzz> | oh no! i was too late to make a Peano joke :( |
| 2021-10-01 01:49:31 +0200 | mjs2600 | (~mjs2600@c-24-91-3-49.hsd1.vt.comcast.net) |
| 2021-10-01 01:49:32 +0200 | roboguy_ | (~roboguy_@2605:a601:afe7:9f00:1985:e1e8:468b:4573) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2021-10-01 01:50:05 +0200 | <jackdk> | alzgh: `/msg alis LIST fedora` will show you a bunch of fedora-related channels. The topic for #fedora-devel says "end users: please ask for help in #fedora" so maybe you were in teh right place? |
| 2021-10-01 01:50:12 +0200 | <jackdk> | alzgh: see https://libera.chat/guides/findingchannels |
| 2021-10-01 01:52:58 +0200 | <alzgh> | thanks jackdk |
| 2021-10-01 01:54:24 +0200 | <jackdk> | alzgh: you're welcome, good luck. |
| 2021-10-01 02:00:01 +0200 | jpds | (~jpds@gateway/tor-sasl/jpds) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2021-10-01 02:00:02 +0200 | zopsi | (zopsi@2600:3c00::f03c:91ff:fe14:551f) (Quit: Oops) |
| 2021-10-01 02:00:03 +0200 | hololeap | (~hololeap@user/hololeap) (Remote host closed the connection) |
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| 2021-10-01 02:00:33 +0200 | jpds | (~jpds@gateway/tor-sasl/jpds) |
| 2021-10-01 02:00:58 +0200 | zopsi | (zopsi@2600:3c00::f03c:91ff:fe14:551f) |
| 2021-10-01 02:00:59 +0200 | phma | (~phma@host-67-44-209-109.hnremote.net) |
| 2021-10-01 02:01:43 +0200 | hololeap | (~hololeap@user/hololeap) |
| 2021-10-01 02:08:47 +0200 | hyiltiz | (~quassel@31.220.5.250) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2021-10-01 02:09:13 +0200 | tommd | (~tommd@75-164-130-101.ptld.qwest.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2021-10-01 02:09:32 +0200 | hyiltiz | (~quassel@31.220.5.250) |
| 2021-10-01 02:11:40 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) |
| 2021-10-01 02:16:20 +0200 | <monochrom> | zzz: "if you can play n notes quickly, then you can play n+1 notes quickly?" :) |
| 2021-10-01 02:18:02 +0200 | jaitoon | (~Jaitoon@178.238.11.42) (Quit: Leaving) |
| 2021-10-01 02:19:25 +0200 | <c_wraith> | when I play n notes quickly I feel like I'm losing control and it's all getting away from me. but sometimes I succeed. I'll succeed a bit less often with n+1 |
| 2021-10-01 02:25:46 +0200 | myShoggoth | (~myShoggot@97-120-70-214.ptld.qwest.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2021-10-01 02:28:47 +0200 | raehik | (~raehik@cpc95906-rdng25-2-0-cust156.15-3.cable.virginm.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2021-10-01 02:30:01 +0200 | eggplantade | (~Eggplanta@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:c44c:b521:4020:aaef) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2021-10-01 02:36:29 +0200 | eggplantade | (~Eggplanta@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:c44c:b521:4020:aaef) |
| 2021-10-01 02:43:53 +0200 | <zzz> | something something monads mo problems |
| 2021-10-01 02:45:05 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2021-10-01 02:45:59 +0200 | hyiltiz | (~quassel@31.220.5.250) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) |
| 2021-10-01 02:47:00 +0200 | hyiltiz | (~quassel@31.220.5.250) |
| 2021-10-01 02:48:34 +0200 | <Axman6> | jackdk: hmm? |
| 2021-10-01 02:51:11 +0200 | hyiltiz | (~quassel@31.220.5.250) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) |
| 2021-10-01 02:54:29 +0200 | hyiltiz | (~quassel@31.220.5.250) |
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| 2021-10-01 03:04:58 +0200 | xsperry | (~xs@cpe-188-129-101-182.dynamic.amis.hr) () |
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| 2021-10-01 03:31:53 +0200 | neurocyte01328 | (~neurocyte@185.117.69.4) |
| 2021-10-01 03:31:53 +0200 | neurocyte01328 | (~neurocyte@185.117.69.4) (Changing host) |
| 2021-10-01 03:31:53 +0200 | neurocyte01328 | (~neurocyte@user/neurocyte) |
| 2021-10-01 03:32:04 +0200 | emf_ | (~emf@2601:600:104:ef88:1466:bc65:7f72:4c40) |
| 2021-10-01 03:33:30 +0200 | emf | (~emf@2620:10d:c090:400::5:5b52) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2021-10-01 03:33:47 +0200 | neurocyte0132 | (~neurocyte@user/neurocyte) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2021-10-01 03:33:47 +0200 | neurocyte01328 | neurocyte0132 |
| 2021-10-01 03:35:01 +0200 | <hololeap> | % stateFirst s = StateT $ \(x,y) -> second (,y) <$> runStateT s x |
| 2021-10-01 03:35:01 +0200 | <yahb> | hololeap: |
| 2021-10-01 03:35:08 +0200 | <hololeap> | % :t stateFirst |
| 2021-10-01 03:35:08 +0200 | <yahb> | hololeap: Functor m => StateT s m a -> StateT (s, t) m a |
| 2021-10-01 03:36:10 +0200 | <hololeap> | anyone know of something that generalizes this, perhaps using lenses? |
| 2021-10-01 03:36:42 +0200 | emf_ | (~emf@2601:600:104:ef88:1466:bc65:7f72:4c40) (Client Quit) |
| 2021-10-01 03:40:35 +0200 | motherfsck | (~motherfsc@user/motherfsck) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2021-10-01 03:42:50 +0200 | <codygman[m]> | I just read something on classy lenses that feels adjacent hololeap http://michaelxavier.net/posts/2016-04-03-Enterprise-Haskell-Pattern-Lensed-Reader.html |
| 2021-10-01 03:44:51 +0200 | <byorgey> | hololeap: zoom _1 ? |
| 2021-10-01 03:45:45 +0200 | <byorgey> | hololeap: 'zoom' basically lets you "zoom in" on part of the state using a lens |
| 2021-10-01 03:46:57 +0200 | <hololeap> | byorgey: awesome, that looks like it's exactly what I wanted |
| 2021-10-01 03:47:38 +0200 | <hololeap> | codygman[m]: thanks for the link |
| 2021-10-01 03:51:12 +0200 | Cajun | (~Cajun@user/cajun) |
| 2021-10-01 03:53:18 +0200 | motherfsck | (~motherfsc@user/motherfsck) |
| 2021-10-01 03:58:50 +0200 | mikoto-chan | (~mikoto-ch@83.137.2.243) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2021-10-01 04:05:33 +0200 | Guest65 | (~Guest65@eth-west-pareq2-46-193-4-100.wb.wifirst.net) |
| 2021-10-01 04:07:46 +0200 | <Guest65> | Is there a Megaparsec primitive that ignores escape chars? ie parse "\t\r" as "\\t\\r" ? |
| 2021-10-01 04:09:58 +0200 | lbseale | (~lbseale@user/ep1ctetus) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2021-10-01 04:11:38 +0200 | lbseale | (~lbseale@user/ep1ctetus) |
| 2021-10-01 04:11:47 +0200 | lbseale | (~lbseale@user/ep1ctetus) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2021-10-01 04:11:55 +0200 | <jackdk> | Guest65: Text.Megaparsec.Char.Lexer.charLiteral maybe? |
| 2021-10-01 04:12:29 +0200 | <Guest65> | doesn't charLiteral do the opposite? |
| 2021-10-01 04:12:58 +0200 | <jackdk> | Guest65: it delegates to Data.Char.readLitChar, which parses "using Haskell source-language escape conventions" |
| 2021-10-01 04:13:14 +0200 | <jackdk> | oh yeah I think I see what you're asking |
| 2021-10-01 04:14:09 +0200 | <Guest65> | I mean parse "\t" as ['\\', 't'] as if these was no escape char |
| 2021-10-01 04:14:29 +0200 | <jackdk> | you could use Data.Char.showLitChar to unpack things? |
| 2021-10-01 04:15:18 +0200 | <jackdk> | yeah, so perhaps your answer is "parse any char", then `fmap show` over that result? |
| 2021-10-01 04:15:35 +0200 | <byorgey> | Guest65: how about char '"' *> many (anySingleBut '"') <* char '"' |
| 2021-10-01 04:18:27 +0200 | pfurla | (~pfurla@216.131.83.59) |
| 2021-10-01 04:18:43 +0200 | <Guest65> | I don't know why bit anySingle still parses the whole escape code O_O |
| 2021-10-01 04:19:09 +0200 | <Guest65> | I think I need to manually unpack it like jackdk suggested |
| 2021-10-01 04:19:30 +0200 | <Guest65> | afterall Token Char ~ Char and `\t` is a Char |
| 2021-10-01 04:19:44 +0200 | <Guest65> | there is no reason for megaprsec to see it any other way |
| 2021-10-01 04:20:50 +0200 | pfurla_ | (~pfurla@ool-182ed2e2.dyn.optonline.net) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2021-10-01 04:20:59 +0200 | <jackdk> | yeah so you need to be producing Text as the result of your parser, not Char, because the result is sometimes 1 character, sometimes two |
| 2021-10-01 04:21:14 +0200 | falafel | (~falafel@2603-8000-d800-688c-d1df-4118-0ede-09f0.res6.spectrum.com) |
| 2021-10-01 04:22:03 +0200 | alzgh | (~alzgh@user/alzgh) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2021-10-01 04:22:14 +0200 | <Guest65> | Oh I do actually, but I can't say I saw it coming haha |
| 2021-10-01 04:23:39 +0200 | xiongxin | (~quassel@119.123.101.90) |
| 2021-10-01 04:23:53 +0200 | <Guest65> | An unrelated question, say I want to parse a set like a^n b^n (never done any non-LL(1) grammars with megaparsec before) |
| 2021-10-01 04:24:08 +0200 | <Guest65> | do I have to use the parser's State ? |
| 2021-10-01 04:24:29 +0200 | myShoggoth | (~myShoggot@97-120-70-214.ptld.qwest.net) |
| 2021-10-01 04:24:46 +0200 | <Guest65> | it would need to remember how many elements it parsed on the left ... |
| 2021-10-01 04:25:14 +0200 | wroathe | (~wroathe@user/wroathe) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 2021-10-01 04:25:23 +0200 | <Guest65> | wait I can just calculate how many a's I parsed in a do-block and parse that many afterwards |
| 2021-10-01 04:25:38 +0200 | <Guest65> | it's more flexible than I thought |
| 2021-10-01 04:26:17 +0200 | falafel_ | (~falafel@2603-8000-d800-688c-5d7c-f952-1b32-cc6a.res6.spectrum.com) |
| 2021-10-01 04:27:09 +0200 | wroathe | (~wroathe@user/wroathe) |
| 2021-10-01 04:28:06 +0200 | falafel | (~falafel@2603-8000-d800-688c-d1df-4118-0ede-09f0.res6.spectrum.com) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2021-10-01 04:28:29 +0200 | betelgeuse | (~betelgeus@94-225-47-8.access.telenet.be) (Quit: The Lounge - https://thelounge.chat) |
| 2021-10-01 04:36:55 +0200 | hyiltiz | (~quassel@31.220.5.250) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) |
| 2021-10-01 04:38:13 +0200 | <codygman[m]> | Can anyone help me understand how what i labeled as `instance 1` is selected in my code rather than `instance 2`? |
| 2021-10-01 04:38:13 +0200 | <codygman[m]> | Here is main: https://github.com/codygman/smol-monadorville-example/blob/fdf630393b4cf1639c9318b19c30ade6669fbac… |
| 2021-10-01 04:41:08 +0200 | <int-e> | codygman[m]: Look at line 63... the m there will be IO because the result will be AppDebugSql IO [String] |
| 2021-10-01 04:41:39 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) |
| 2021-10-01 04:41:45 +0200 | <awpr> | you apply `runAppDebugSql` directly to the do-block, so its type is `AppDebugSql (...) a`, which doesn't match instance 2. |
| 2021-10-01 04:42:55 +0200 | <awpr> | maybe ignore that, I'm not sure where it's actually trying to select an instance |
| 2021-10-01 04:43:53 +0200 | wroathe | (~wroathe@user/wroathe) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2021-10-01 04:44:59 +0200 | <int-e> | codygman[m]: Does the code compile without line 65 if you change the type signature accordingly? |
| 2021-10-01 04:45:34 +0200 | hyiltiz | (~quassel@31.220.5.250) |
| 2021-10-01 04:45:36 +0200 | roboguy_ | (~roboguy_@2605:a601:afe7:9f00:1985:e1e8:468b:4573) |
| 2021-10-01 04:46:30 +0200 | <awpr> | yeah, if it's the `selectSql` there, then wrapping it in the `AppDebugSql` constructor explicitly forces its type to be _not_ `AppDebugSql` and then just sticks it in the newtype |
| 2021-10-01 04:46:37 +0200 | CodeKiwi | DigitalKiwi |
| 2021-10-01 04:48:25 +0200 | alx741 | (~alx741@181.196.69.214) (Quit: alx741) |
| 2021-10-01 04:48:39 +0200 | <codygman[m]> | int-e after deriving MonadFail and asks me to define `MonadOrville conn0 (AppDebugSql (App ...))` which feels promising. |
| 2021-10-01 04:48:39 +0200 | <codygman[m]> | It confuses me though because I thought that App was supposed to be the outermost monad. |
| 2021-10-01 04:50:30 +0200 | roboguy_ | (~roboguy_@2605:a601:afe7:9f00:1985:e1e8:468b:4573) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) |
| 2021-10-01 04:51:59 +0200 | <int-e> | Well you have flip runReaderT dbPool . runApp . runAppDebugSql; the outermost monad comes last. |
| 2021-10-01 04:52:16 +0200 | <awpr> | it might be easier to stick a Bool in some Reader context in the one-and-only App monad and consult that to decide whether to trace queries. then there'd be none of this hard-to-understand instance resolution fiddling |
| 2021-10-01 04:52:55 +0200 | <int-e> | codygman[m]: Note, I have not tried to make sense of that stack. |
| 2021-10-01 04:53:27 +0200 | awpr | was confused because "last" meant "leftmost" to me |
| 2021-10-01 04:54:08 +0200 | <codygman[m]> | Well it's working now, about to push and ask why 😅 |
| 2021-10-01 04:54:24 +0200 | <awpr> | apparently reading too much point-free code can overrule the left-to-right writing system bias :D |
| 2021-10-01 04:58:27 +0200 | wroathe | (~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) |
| 2021-10-01 04:58:27 +0200 | wroathe | (~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) (Changing host) |
| 2021-10-01 04:58:27 +0200 | wroathe | (~wroathe@user/wroathe) |
| 2021-10-01 05:01:53 +0200 | FinnElija | (~finn_elij@user/finn-elija/x-0085643) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 2021-10-01 05:01:53 +0200 | td__ | (~td@94.134.91.102) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 2021-10-01 05:03:14 +0200 | wroathe | (~wroathe@user/wroathe) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) |
| 2021-10-01 05:03:19 +0200 | td_ | (~td@94.134.91.208) |
| 2021-10-01 05:03:46 +0200 | FinnElija | (~finn_elij@user/finn-elija/x-0085643) |
| 2021-10-01 05:09:43 +0200 | <codygman[m]> | Thank you int-e ! I'm embarrassed to admit how long that ones been stumping me 😄 |
| 2021-10-01 05:10:02 +0200 | pfurla_ | (~pfurla@ool-182ed2e2.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 2021-10-01 05:12:54 +0200 | pfurla | (~pfurla@216.131.83.59) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2021-10-01 05:14:32 +0200 | <Guest65> | I have a contrived example to demonstrate something I don't understand about idiomatic style |
| 2021-10-01 05:14:58 +0200 | <Guest65> | say `square x = x * x`, `index i xs = xs !! i` and `whatever i xs = square <$> index i xs` |
| 2021-10-01 05:15:07 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2021-10-01 05:15:35 +0200 | <Guest65> | (I know xs is just a list but imagine it was a more abstract functor, like a monad) |
| 2021-10-01 05:16:08 +0200 | <Guest65> | Q: how do I write `whatever` without using the `i xs` parameters |
| 2021-10-01 05:16:26 +0200 | <codygman[m]> | I still don't understand why this selects instance 1: |
| 2021-10-01 05:16:26 +0200 | <codygman[m]> | https://github.com/codygman/smol-monadorville-example/blob/07ad38a6e83e78b653996674045d35804ce6acd… |
| 2021-10-01 05:16:26 +0200 | <codygman[m]> | But I can finish what i'm doing |
| 2021-10-01 05:16:28 +0200 | <Guest65> | I can usually avoid writing them when they repeat on either side but I can't do it here |
| 2021-10-01 05:16:45 +0200 | <codygman[m]> | * i'm doing 😊 |
| 2021-10-01 05:17:05 +0200 | <Axman6> | @pl whatever i xs = square <$> index i xs |
| 2021-10-01 05:17:05 +0200 | <lambdabot> | whatever = ((square <$>) .) . index |
| 2021-10-01 05:17:13 +0200 | <Axman6> | okease don't do that :) |
| 2021-10-01 05:17:25 +0200 | <Axman6> | @pl whatever i xs = fmap square (index i xs) |
| 2021-10-01 05:17:26 +0200 | <lambdabot> | whatever = (fmap square .) . index |
| 2021-10-01 05:17:31 +0200 | <Axman6> | Also don't do that |
| 2021-10-01 05:17:35 +0200 | <awpr> | `whatever i = fmap square . index i` => `(.:) = (.).(.); whatever = fmap square .: index` |
| 2021-10-01 05:17:46 +0200 | <awpr> | normally I'd do the left one |
| 2021-10-01 05:17:55 +0200 | <codygman[m]> | Need blackbird Guest65 |
| 2021-10-01 05:18:58 +0200 | <codygman[m]> | I think anyway, see https://drewboardman.github.io/jekyll/update/2020/01/14/blackbird-operator.html |
| 2021-10-01 05:19:11 +0200 | <Guest65> | aha first time I see blackbird |
| 2021-10-01 05:19:30 +0200 | <codygman[m]> | Most people hate it FYI |
| 2021-10-01 05:19:34 +0200 | <awpr> | never heard that name before, but yeah, that's exactly the same thing I wrote |
| 2021-10-01 05:20:34 +0200 | <codygman[m]> | If you use it make it `infixr 7` https://www.reddit.com/r/haskell/comments/ea2fyk/is_the_blackbird_operator_infixr_9_for_a_reason/ |
| 2021-10-01 05:21:10 +0200 | <Guest65> | I am not sure what `fmap square (.).(.) index` expands to .. |
| 2021-10-01 05:21:24 +0200 | <awpr> | a parse error |
| 2021-10-01 05:21:26 +0200 | <Guest65> | infixr 9? |
| 2021-10-01 05:22:04 +0200 | <Guest65> | awpr: So what's the equivalent synax for what you wrote? |
| 2021-10-01 05:22:48 +0200 | <codygman[m]> | fixity definitions of functions lets you affect parsing precedence |
| 2021-10-01 05:23:13 +0200 | <awpr> | there's no way to use a compound subexpression as an infix operator; if you must inline it, it'd be `((.).(.)) (fmap square) index`, but that looks really hard to parse |
| 2021-10-01 05:23:17 +0200 | machinedgod | (~machinedg@135-23-192-217.cpe.pppoe.ca) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) |
| 2021-10-01 05:24:06 +0200 | doyougnu | (~user@c-73-25-202-122.hsd1.or.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2021-10-01 05:28:40 +0200 | xiongxin | (~quassel@119.123.101.90) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2021-10-01 05:29:55 +0200 | xiongxin | (~quassel@119.123.101.90) |
| 2021-10-01 05:32:29 +0200 | <Guest65> | I find it confusing why `whatever i = fmap square . index i` doesn't also require the blackbird |
| 2021-10-01 05:32:50 +0200 | <awpr> | it's composing over one fewer argument |
| 2021-10-01 05:33:13 +0200 | <Guest65> | but what's so special about two+ arguments? |
| 2021-10-01 05:33:35 +0200 | <awpr> | `(.)` composes over exactly one argument |
| 2021-10-01 05:33:46 +0200 | <awpr> | `(.:)` composes over exactly two |
| 2021-10-01 05:34:06 +0200 | <Guest65> | okay I definitely did not know that (.) composes over only one argument, thank you! |
| 2021-10-01 05:34:49 +0200 | <Guest65> | is this limitation for the sake of the parser's simplicity or does it lead to ambiguous syntax? |
| 2021-10-01 05:34:59 +0200 | kimjetwav | (~user@2607:fea8:235f:9730:49e1:79a9:994b:782d) |
| 2021-10-01 05:35:08 +0200 | <Guest65> | or something else entirely? |
| 2021-10-01 05:35:11 +0200 | <awpr> | `(.)` is literally a function whose definition is to compose functions. nothing to do with a parser |
| 2021-10-01 05:35:14 +0200 | <jle`> | it actualyl comes frmo the fact that (.) is a user-defined function :) |
| 2021-10-01 05:35:32 +0200 | <jle`> | (f . g) x = f (g x) |
| 2021-10-01 05:35:42 +0200 | <awpr> | `fmap square . index i` = `(\f g x -> f (g x)) (fmap square) (index i)` = `\x -> fmap square (index i x)` |
| 2021-10-01 05:37:26 +0200 | <jle`> | or (.) f g x = f (g x) |
| 2021-10-01 05:37:37 +0200 | <Guest65> | awpr, jle`: I see it clearly now, thank you again |
| 2021-10-01 05:37:41 +0200 | <jle`> | (.) = \f -> \g -> \x -> f (g x) |
| 2021-10-01 05:37:51 +0200 | <jle`> | so basically whenever you see (.), you can "substitute" the definition |
| 2021-10-01 05:37:52 +0200 | <awpr> | in the same style, you could write `(.:)` as `(.:) f g x y = f (g x y)` |
| 2021-10-01 05:37:58 +0200 | <jle`> | same thing as for other functions you can define in haskell |
| 2021-10-01 05:38:09 +0200 | <Guest65> | awpr: I was just about to suggest that :o |
| 2021-10-01 05:38:28 +0200 | <jle`> | ie, to evaluate myfunc x y = x * y + 3, for `myfunc 4 5`, you "substitute" in 4, and 5 for x, and y to get `4 * 5 + 3` |
| 2021-10-01 05:38:29 +0200 | <awpr> | with that definition it's visually obvious why `.` works on one argument and `.:` works on two |
| 2021-10-01 05:39:19 +0200 | <awpr> | because right there in the definition you can see the two arguments to the right-hand-side function |
| 2021-10-01 05:39:41 +0200 | <jle`> | btw fmap square (.) . (.) index is actually not a parse error, but it's a type error |
| 2021-10-01 05:39:59 +0200 | <jle`> | well, depending on the type of square and index |
| 2021-10-01 05:40:09 +0200 | <jle`> | it could actually typecheck i think, but it probably won't do what you want :) |
| 2021-10-01 05:40:27 +0200 | <awpr> | ah, yeah. it broke my brain's type-directed parser, but GHC's real parser would be fine with it |
| 2021-10-01 05:41:23 +0200 | <jle`> | ah yeah, my point wasn't that you were wrong, but more to highlight that (.) is just a normal user-space function/operator and isn't any special syntax |
| 2021-10-01 05:41:27 +0200 | statusbot | (~statusbot@ec2-34-198-122-184.compute-1.amazonaws.com) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2021-10-01 05:41:40 +0200 | statusbot | (~statusbot@ec2-34-198-122-184.compute-1.amazonaws.com) |
| 2021-10-01 05:42:20 +0200 | <awpr> | yeah. it's a syntax mistake (pasting the text of a definition in place of an infix operator) but the result is still valid syntax |
| 2021-10-01 05:45:10 +0200 | lavaman | (~lavaman@98.38.249.169) |
| 2021-10-01 05:45:36 +0200 | zebrag | (~chris@user/zebrag) (Quit: Konversation terminated!) |
| 2021-10-01 05:47:05 +0200 | fvr | (uid503686@id-503686.uxbridge.irccloud.com) |
| 2021-10-01 05:49:36 +0200 | lavaman | (~lavaman@98.38.249.169) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) |
| 2021-10-01 05:59:50 +0200 | wroathe | (~wroathe@user/wroathe) |
| 2021-10-01 06:03:19 +0200 | <nerdypepper> | is there a haskell library that is equivalent to https://github.com/rayon-rs/rayon? |
| 2021-10-01 06:04:29 +0200 | [itchyjunk] | (~itchyjunk@user/itchyjunk/x-7353470) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2021-10-01 06:04:59 +0200 | aegon | (~mike@174.127.249.180) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2021-10-01 06:05:27 +0200 | <Axman6> | at first glance, async looks like a good place to start |
| 2021-10-01 06:10:21 +0200 | <nerdypepper> | Axman6: map/forConcurrently look pretty handy, thanks |
| 2021-10-01 06:11:03 +0200 | <Axman6> | I would highly recomend you read Simon Marlow's book on parallel and concurrent programming in haskell, it's free to read online |
| 2021-10-01 06:11:24 +0200 | bitdex | (~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex) (Quit: = "") |
| 2021-10-01 06:11:44 +0200 | <nerdypepper> | Axman6: awesome, thanks! |
| 2021-10-01 06:12:50 +0200 | bitdex | (~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex) |
| 2021-10-01 06:12:51 +0200 | <Axman6> | recommend too |
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| 2021-10-01 07:46:29 +0200 | michalz | (~michalz@185.246.204.89) |
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| 2021-10-01 07:51:47 +0200 | hololeap | (~hololeap@user/hololeap) (Quit: Bye) |
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| 2021-10-01 07:57:40 +0200 | kuribas | (~user@ptr-25vy0i7d2y83zcd1kk6.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be) |
| 2021-10-01 07:58:19 +0200 | <kuribas> | Why did haskell not "succeed" => It didn't? |
| 2021-10-01 07:58:44 +0200 | <kuribas> | We have a nice language, a production ready compiler, plenty of libraries, some shoddy, but working tooling, a growing amount of jobs... |
| 2021-10-01 07:58:56 +0200 | <kuribas> | How is that not "succeeding"? |
| 2021-10-01 08:03:13 +0200 | opqdonut_ | opqdonut |
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| 2021-10-01 08:27:37 +0200 | yaroot4 | yaroot |
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| 2021-10-01 08:30:18 +0200 | lavaman | (~lavaman@98.38.249.169) |
| 2021-10-01 08:30:31 +0200 | <sm> | succeed more, they mean |
| 2021-10-01 08:32:14 +0200 | <dminuoso> | Honestly, I think what some people might forget is the survivor bias. There's only a very small handful of languages finding adoption, and there's a very rapid feedback loop. |
| 2021-10-01 08:32:25 +0200 | lortabac | (~lortabac@2a01:e0a:541:b8f0:7de3:3a15:d47c:a7f5) |
| 2021-10-01 08:32:42 +0200 | xlei | (akans@pool-68-129-84-118.nycmny.fios.verizon.net) |
| 2021-10-01 08:32:55 +0200 | <kuribas> | The only reason go is popular is because of google backing. |
| 2021-10-01 08:32:57 +0200 | <dminuoso> | The first language to gain foothold in a given domain, say PHP in the web for server side stuff, has a huge advantage - as soon as a critical number of components, libraries and tooling is reached first, that's the language to be "successful" |
| 2021-10-01 08:33:07 +0200 | <kuribas> | And java has also had a huga amount of corporate backing. |
| 2021-10-01 08:33:15 +0200 | <dminuoso> | Sure, corporate backing is a large part of it. |
| 2021-10-01 08:33:19 +0200 | <kuribas> | dminuoso: yeah, that also. |
| 2021-10-01 08:33:27 +0200 | brainfreeze | (~brainfree@2a03:1b20:4:f011::20d) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2021-10-01 08:34:26 +0200 | <amirouche> | corporate backend and... excellent coders? |
| 2021-10-01 08:34:38 +0200 | renzhi | (~xp@2607:fa49:6500:b100::5845) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 2021-10-01 08:34:40 +0200 | fef | (~thedawn@user/thedawn) |
| 2021-10-01 08:34:43 +0200 | <amirouche> | I mean you also need to bring the pl off-the-ground to get started. |
| 2021-10-01 08:34:54 +0200 | <amirouche> | which is the case of haskell. |
| 2021-10-01 08:34:58 +0200 | lavaman | (~lavaman@98.38.249.169) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2021-10-01 08:35:06 +0200 | <dminuoso> | Thing is, languages find adoption out of popularity, not because the language is inherently good. When people say "Python is great for data stuff", they dont mean that the language is particularly good at it (it's really not, python has incredibly poor performance), just that a) they find a lot of resources, b) answers on stack overflow, c) pre-existing libraries for stuff. |
| 2021-10-01 08:35:08 +0200 | <kuribas> | what is off-the-ground? |
| 2021-10-01 08:35:19 +0200 | <kuribas> | There are plenty of curious languages with a decent compiler. |
| 2021-10-01 08:35:32 +0200 | <dminuoso> | And corporate backing helps with all these things as it gives rise to manuals, tools, libraries. |
| 2021-10-01 08:35:56 +0200 | <amirouche> | Last time I tried to argue with a collegue relating something to how haskell does things, they told me: "[Haskell] is a theorical language" or "Haskell is a language for developing theories" something like that |
| 2021-10-01 08:35:57 +0200 | koz- | koz |
| 2021-10-01 08:36:23 +0200 | <amirouche> | that is a there is a lot of mis understanding about haskell in particular. |
| 2021-10-01 08:36:26 +0200 | <amirouche> | dminuoso: +1 |
| 2021-10-01 08:36:47 +0200 | <kuribas> | dminuoso: Python is great for data stuff, just means it has many library bindings, and somewhat stable API for those. |
| 2021-10-01 08:36:53 +0200 | <dminuoso> | kuribas: Right. |
| 2021-10-01 08:37:44 +0200 | <dminuoso> | And it's a fair point, to be honest. When I want to do number crunching, then |
| 2021-10-01 08:38:03 +0200 | <dminuoso> | if I can just ruthlessly plug data science libraries together to achieve some result in small development time, it's definitely a good thing. |
| 2021-10-01 08:38:05 +0200 | <amirouche> | re haskell is theory: also worse than just dismissing haskell as viable pl, they dismissed the knowledge that was discovered / invented with haskell [but that was portable to Python]. |
| 2021-10-01 08:38:21 +0200 | <dminuoso> | amirouche: The crucial problem is not relating to facts. |
| 2021-10-01 08:38:30 +0200 | <amirouche> | +1 dminuoso |
| 2021-10-01 08:38:31 +0200 | <dminuoso> | It's just that people like to be experts on things they have no knowledge of. |
| 2021-10-01 08:38:39 +0200 | <amirouche> | +0 |
| 2021-10-01 08:38:42 +0200 | <kuribas> | amirouche: haskell isn't even a good language for theory. |
| 2021-10-01 08:38:59 +0200 | <amirouche> | dminuoso: I am unsure what "expert on things they have no knowledge of" |
| 2021-10-01 08:39:09 +0200 | <kuribas> | amirouche: idris, agda, etc... are all better |
| 2021-10-01 08:39:23 +0200 | <dminuoso> | amirouche: Does your colleague have a haskell background? |
| 2021-10-01 08:39:33 +0200 | <dminuoso> | That is, has he spent the time to learn Haskell, solve problems with it? |
| 2021-10-01 08:39:41 +0200 | <dminuoso> | Study its history and present situation? |
| 2021-10-01 08:39:53 +0200 | <amirouche> | kuribas: I am not sure what they meant by "haskell is for theory"... it is clear they do not mean theory in the math sense, but something along the line "haskell is research-y hence of no use for / in the industry" |
| 2021-10-01 08:39:54 +0200 | <dminuoso> | If not, it's really hard to judge a language |
| 2021-10-01 08:40:19 +0200 | <amirouche> | dminuoso: yes |
| 2021-10-01 08:40:23 +0200 | <dminuoso> | But honestly, once a discussion goes there, I usually do not have interest of proceeding. |
| 2021-10-01 08:40:29 +0200 | <amirouche> | yes |
| 2021-10-01 08:40:32 +0200 | <kuribas> | amirouche: yeah, you hear that argument often. Rarely with any interesting motivation. |
| 2021-10-01 08:40:38 +0200 | <dminuoso> | Trying to argue with someone who has already made up their mind is not a good way to spend my time. |
| 2021-10-01 08:41:07 +0200 | <amirouche> | no they do not have xp with haskell, they know only PHP and Java. |
| 2021-10-01 08:41:27 +0200 | <dminuoso> | amirouche: Perhaps its useful to understand their mind model. |
| 2021-10-01 08:41:34 +0200 | <kuribas> | amirouche: and lots of easily refutable arguments. Like pure FP is not performant (it's more performant than ruby/python/JS), it has bad resource management (the same as any GC language). |
| 2021-10-01 08:41:52 +0200 | <amirouche> | dminuoso: the mind mode of my collegue? |
| 2021-10-01 08:42:35 +0200 | <amirouche> | they mind model can be summarized as: we are not a tech company, with hack together quick-wins with filling-the-blanks and off-the-shelf solutions. |
| 2021-10-01 08:42:51 +0200 | hyiltiz | (~quassel@31.220.5.250) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 2021-10-01 08:42:57 +0200 | <dminuoso> | It's quite possible that this person is simply intimidated by the language, perhaps they dont have an academic background either. And a lot of discussions on the internet about Haskell relates to the top 5% complicated, math-obsessed topics, which dont really relate to the rest 95% |
| 2021-10-01 08:43:10 +0200 | <kuribas> | amirouche: so the typical software company :) |
| 2021-10-01 08:43:29 +0200 | <amirouche> | kuribas: sadly. |
| 2021-10-01 08:43:31 +0200 | <dminuoso> | So you can very quickly gain a skewed perspective, be intimidated, and write it off as "it's useful to explore kan extensions in category theory, but not writing a web server in it" |
| 2021-10-01 08:44:06 +0200 | <dminuoso> | To me personally, this "its used in academia" is a bonus point, its well principled enough that it can be researched into easily. |
| 2021-10-01 08:44:09 +0200 | <kuribas> | dminuoso: it's true there is a lot of literature on topics which are only mildly useful (though interesting). Like recursion-schemes. |
| 2021-10-01 08:44:29 +0200 | acidjnk | (~acidjnk@p200300d0c703cb709cd806e9bafd3ecc.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 2021-10-01 08:44:29 +0200 | acidjnk_new | (~acidjnk@p200300d0c703cb709cd806e9bafd3ecc.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 2021-10-01 08:44:30 +0200 | <kuribas> | or free monads. |
| 2021-10-01 08:44:37 +0200 | <dminuoso> | I like SQL precisely because its well founded in academia, that doesnt constrict it, it gives me strict confidence in that it does get a lot of things right. |
| 2021-10-01 08:44:39 +0200 | mikoto-chan | (~mikoto-ch@83.137.2.243) |
| 2021-10-01 08:44:44 +0200 | <amirouche> | fwiw, the concept / algorithm / approach I tried to introduce to them is parser combinators, I mentioned pandoc, then the conversation went south. |
| 2021-10-01 08:45:16 +0200 | <kuribas> | amirouche: also "there are no big programs in haskell". There are pleny, but most of them are backends, so not really visible. |
| 2021-10-01 08:45:19 +0200 | <dminuoso> | Relational algebra doesnt make SQL more complicated, in fact - arguably - its what allows ruthless optimizations on the server side. |
| 2021-10-01 08:45:36 +0200 | <amirouche> | dminuoso: I know from personal xp, there is social issue (nobody does haskell around me) and a personnal mastery problem (it is hard to learn a new language) |
| 2021-10-01 08:45:50 +0200 | <dminuoso> | SQL servers transform every query into relational algebra, then they employ these pure transformations into equivalent algebraic expressions that happen to be be much faster, and then execute them. |
| 2021-10-01 08:46:12 +0200 | <dminuoso> | amirouche: So perhaps its useful to show these people that this link to academia is actually a good thing! |
| 2021-10-01 08:46:30 +0200 | <dminuoso> | Rather than trying to fight it. Starting with "yes you are right!" is always an ice breaker in arguments. |
| 2021-10-01 08:46:45 +0200 | <amirouche> | I take note of "yes you are right". |
| 2021-10-01 08:46:46 +0200 | <dminuoso> | Just some thoughts. |
| 2021-10-01 08:47:10 +0200 | <kuribas> | dminuoso: yes, you are right, haskell is academic, and useless in practice? |
| 2021-10-01 08:47:12 +0200 | renzhi | (~xp@2607:fa49:6500:b100::1d9d) |
| 2021-10-01 08:47:29 +0200 | <dminuoso> | No "haskell finds use in academia, let's have a look why that is" |
| 2021-10-01 08:47:39 +0200 | <amirouche> | re no big programs in haskell, similarly there is little big program in python that are open-source in fact. There is a lot of inertia / existing material but not that much big programs. |
| 2021-10-01 08:48:57 +0200 | <amirouche> | there is also a / the problem that in general people think programs are built by a team, that wrong from xp, cursory look, and various academic studies: software is built by a handful of person anytime, anywhere. |
| 2021-10-01 08:49:36 +0200 | <amirouche> | also, given a good basis software, even if painful, it is easier to maintain that start from scratch. |
| 2021-10-01 08:49:46 +0200 | <amirouche> | but I am changing subject. |
| 2021-10-01 08:49:54 +0200 | pieguy128_ | (~pieguy128@bras-base-mtrlpq5031w-grc-57-65-92-163-194.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 2021-10-01 08:50:08 +0200 | glguy_ | glguy |
| 2021-10-01 08:50:24 +0200 | <amirouche> | in anycase, I think we need more software engineering studies, to understand better how and what makes great software. |
| 2021-10-01 08:50:30 +0200 | glider_ | (~glider@user/glider) |
| 2021-10-01 08:50:32 +0200 | glider | (~glider@user/glider) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2021-10-01 08:50:38 +0200 | pieguy128 | (~pieguy128@bas1-montreal02-65-92-163-194.dsl.bell.ca) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2021-10-01 08:50:41 +0200 | <amirouche> | and not just hacking together "something that works" (tm) |
| 2021-10-01 08:50:45 +0200 | <dminuoso> | amirouche: By the way, at facebook, every single user interaction (whether you write a message, give a thumbs up, add a friend) world wide runs through a classification system called sigma at several million requests per second. Sigma is extended with a lot of rules that concurrently consult all kinds of databases and sources. |
| 2021-10-01 08:50:53 +0200 | <dminuoso> | Take one guess what language this is all written in. |
| 2021-10-01 08:51:04 +0200 | <amirouche> | haskell? |
| 2021-10-01 08:51:06 +0200 | <dminuoso> | Yes. |
| 2021-10-01 08:51:12 +0200 | <amirouche> | wow. |
| 2021-10-01 08:51:12 +0200 | <kuribas> | dminuoso: that's the haxl thing? |
| 2021-10-01 08:51:14 +0200 | <dminuoso> | https://engineering.fb.com/2015/06/26/security/fighting-spam-with-haskell/ |
| 2021-10-01 08:51:15 +0200 | <dminuoso> | kuribas: Yes. |
| 2021-10-01 08:51:32 +0200 | <kuribas> | dminuoso: haxl is also a good example of why a small linear inefficiencies don't matter. |
| 2021-10-01 08:51:42 +0200 | <amirouche> | It is some kind of AI but rule based? Strange and not so strange at the same time. |
| 2021-10-01 08:51:55 +0200 | <kuribas> | Because they way batches "optimally", you gain more than you loose over a low level language like C++. |
| 2021-10-01 08:52:08 +0200 | <kuribas> | Good luck implementing this kind of batching in C++. |
| 2021-10-01 08:52:16 +0200 | <dminuoso> | amirouche: No, it's broadly just programs that just consult databases, and based on various properties make decisions. |
| 2021-10-01 08:52:41 +0200 | <amirouche> | I keep repeating to my collegue, if they think they will find even a 100% increase in productivity tool in the wild, they are hopeless. If a company has such a tool, they will not market it widly. |
| 2021-10-01 08:52:53 +0200 | <dminuoso> | amirouche: Take a look at the article, there's also a youtube video linked (I dont know that one though), other presentations exist too. |
| 2021-10-01 08:53:49 +0200 | kaol | (~kaol@178.62.241.234) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 2021-10-01 08:53:49 +0200 | <amirouche> | quote from the blog post: "Sigma is a rule engine". That is what I was thinking. |
| 2021-10-01 08:54:34 +0200 | <dminuoso> | amirouche: Functionality wise, it's similar to perhaps rspamd. |
| 2021-10-01 08:54:43 +0200 | kaol | (~kaol@178.62.241.234) |
| 2021-10-01 08:56:38 +0200 | <dminuoso> | Anyway, gotta get back to work. |
| 2021-10-01 08:57:19 +0200 | mikoto-chan | (~mikoto-ch@83.137.2.243) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2021-10-01 08:57:55 +0200 | aforemny | (~aforemny@static.248.158.34.188.clients.your-server.de) (Quit: ZNC 1.8.2 - https://znc.in) |
| 2021-10-01 08:58:19 +0200 | xff0x | (~xff0x@2001:1a81:53fd:8200:e649:b21c:3aaf:4661) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 2021-10-01 08:58:21 +0200 | mikoto-chan | (~mikoto-ch@83.137.2.243) |
| 2021-10-01 08:58:33 +0200 | emf_ | (~emf@2620:10d:c090:400::5:2fc4) (Quit: emf_) |
| 2021-10-01 08:58:35 +0200 | <amirouche> | From the outside, it looks to me similar to the rule engine called duckling https://duckling.wit.ai/ |
| 2021-10-01 08:58:45 +0200 | aforemny | (~aforemny@static.248.158.34.188.clients.your-server.de) |
| 2021-10-01 08:58:49 +0200 | <amirouche> | but for fighting spam. |
| 2021-10-01 08:58:57 +0200 | xff0x | (~xff0x@2001:1a81:53fd:8200:7263:a828:f9a7:9516) |
| 2021-10-01 08:59:08 +0200 | aweinsto1k | aweinstock |
| 2021-10-01 08:59:27 +0200 | hyiltiz | (~quassel@31.220.5.250) |
| 2021-10-01 09:01:53 +0200 | <kuribas> | is there anything where haskell is still bringing advancements in? |
| 2021-10-01 09:02:13 +0200 | <kuribas> | I think now dependently typed languages bring more value for research. |
| 2021-10-01 09:02:25 +0200 | <kuribas> | For example, idris has linear types. |
| 2021-10-01 09:02:50 +0200 | <jneira[m]> | and haskell too afaik |
| 2021-10-01 09:03:13 +0200 | <jneira[m]> | https://ghc.gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/doc/users_guide/exts/linear_types.html |
| 2021-10-01 09:03:26 +0200 | <kuribas> | it's more elegant in idris. |
| 2021-10-01 09:04:12 +0200 | <jneira[m]> | sure, being a brand new language gives you lot of room for elegance :-) |
| 2021-10-01 09:04:18 +0200 | <kuribas> | sure |
| 2021-10-01 09:05:25 +0200 | emf | (~emf@2620:10d:c090:400::5:2fc4) |
| 2021-10-01 09:06:06 +0200 | tzh_ | (~tzh@c-24-21-73-154.hsd1.or.comcast.net) (Quit: zzz) |
| 2021-10-01 09:06:30 +0200 | <jneira[m]> | and Edwin Brady is a really clever compiler dev of course |
| 2021-10-01 09:06:36 +0200 | <kuribas> | hmm, dependent types already existed before I was born |
| 2021-10-01 09:06:57 +0200 | <kuribas> | "In 1969 Howard observes that another, more "high-level" proof system, referred to as natural deduction, can be directly interpreted in its intuitionistic version as a typed variant of the model of computation known as lambda calculus." |
| 2021-10-01 09:07:21 +0200 | emf | (~emf@2620:10d:c090:400::5:2fc4) (Client Quit) |
| 2021-10-01 09:07:36 +0200 | <jneira[m]> | implementations are younger though |
| 2021-10-01 09:08:19 +0200 | <kuribas> | the wikipedia doesn't really elaborate on it. |
| 2021-10-01 09:08:58 +0200 | chele | (~chele@user/chele) |
| 2021-10-01 09:09:20 +0200 | <kuribas> | "Intuitionistic type theory was created by Per Martin-Löf, a Swedish mathematician and philosopher, who first published it in 1972." |
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| 2021-10-01 09:19:39 +0200 | <kuribas> | It's no coincidence that we get towards dependent types, because mathematical logic is the best way to reason formally about programs. |
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| 2021-10-01 09:44:02 +0200 | Morrow[m] | (~morrowmma@2001:470:69fc:105::1d0) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) |
| 2021-10-01 09:44:17 +0200 | Morrow[m] | (~morrowmma@2001:470:69fc:105::1d0) |
| 2021-10-01 09:44:45 +0200 | geranim0 | (~geranim0@modemcable242.171-178-173.mc.videotron.ca) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2021-10-01 09:44:55 +0200 | nerdypepper | (~nerdypepp@user/nerdypepper) |
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| 2021-10-01 09:45:17 +0200 | np | (~nerdypepp@user/nerdypepper) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
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| 2021-10-01 09:45:53 +0200 | hgolden_ | (~hgolden2@cpe-172-114-81-123.socal.res.rr.com) |
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| 2021-10-01 09:46:28 +0200 | damien3 | (~damien@248.ip-149-56-13.net) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) |
| 2021-10-01 09:46:28 +0200 | hgolden | (~hgolden2@cpe-172-114-81-123.socal.res.rr.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2021-10-01 09:46:28 +0200 | ericson2314 | (~ericson23@2001:470:69fc:105::70c) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) |
| 2021-10-01 09:46:30 +0200 | hyiltiz | (~quassel@31.220.5.250) |
| 2021-10-01 09:46:33 +0200 | ericson23141 | (~ericson23@2001:470:69fc:105::70c) |
| 2021-10-01 09:46:49 +0200 | lortabac_ | (~lortabac@88.125.6.227) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2021-10-01 09:46:50 +0200 | edr | (~edr@enlo.co) |
| 2021-10-01 09:46:50 +0200 | edr | (~edr@enlo.co) (Changing host) |
| 2021-10-01 09:46:50 +0200 | edr | (~edr@user/edr) |
| 2021-10-01 09:46:58 +0200 | <Axman6> | amirouche: Sigma is a long way from being a rule engine, but it is used to build rules on top of many other services. at its core is the ability to query many different services in a highly concurrent way, while also have ing the smarts to batch together similar queries (if you write a query which says "give me the friend of A" and "give me the friends of B", it will rewrite that into a query that is "give me the friends of A and B". If you also ask "How many |
| 2021-10-01 09:46:58 +0200 | <Axman6> | posts has this used made in the last 5 minutes", thay will be a query to another service, but Sigma (well, Haxl) will take care of running the friends of A and B and how many posts queries at the same time. When Facebook first announced it, Sigma was processing 2m requests per second across facebook, and had new rules being deployed globally every 5 minutes |
| 2021-10-01 09:47:04 +0200 | Skyfire | (~pyon@user/pyon) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) |
| 2021-10-01 09:47:04 +0200 | swistak | (~swistak@185.21.216.141) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) |
| 2021-10-01 09:47:22 +0200 | Skyfire | (~pyon@user/pyon) |
| 2021-10-01 09:47:22 +0200 | xsperry | (~xs@user/xsperry) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2021-10-01 09:47:36 +0200 | damien3 | (~damien@248.ip-149-56-13.net) |
| 2021-10-01 09:48:26 +0200 | xsperry | (~xs@cpe-188-129-101-182.dynamic.amis.hr) |
| 2021-10-01 09:48:45 +0200 | econo | (uid147250@user/econo) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) |
| 2021-10-01 09:48:53 +0200 | lortabac_ | (~lortabac@2a01:e0a:541:b8f0:25dc:3c77:c611:d13f) |
| 2021-10-01 09:49:22 +0200 | swistak | (~swistak@185.21.216.141) |
| 2021-10-01 09:49:58 +0200 | Rishi | (~Rishi@103.142.31.135) (Quit: Client closed) |
| 2021-10-01 09:51:55 +0200 | <Axman6> | amirouche: also, interesting that you mention duckling, that used to be written in Haskell! |
| 2021-10-01 09:52:03 +0200 | Vaishnavi | (~Vaishnavi@103.142.31.135) (Quit: Client closed) |
| 2021-10-01 09:53:43 +0200 | <amirouche> | yep |
| 2021-10-01 09:53:49 +0200 | amirouche | (~amirouche@user/amirouche) (Quit: i will be back) |
| 2021-10-01 09:54:41 +0200 | darkstardevx | (~darkstard@2601:1c2:300:c8a0::f2b6) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 2021-10-01 09:55:48 +0200 | tromp | (~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl) |
| 2021-10-01 09:55:59 +0200 | <Hecate> | Axman6: it's not anymore? |
| 2021-10-01 09:58:06 +0200 | eggplantade | (~Eggplanta@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:c44c:b521:4020:aaef) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2021-10-01 10:00:42 +0200 | emf_ | (~emf@2601:602:9400:84d:83e:973e:4aa8:d9e5) |
| 2021-10-01 10:02:38 +0200 | darkstardevx | (~darkstard@c-24-21-53-33.hsd1.or.comcast.net) |
| 2021-10-01 10:04:06 +0200 | emf | (~emf@2620:10d:c090:400::5:2fc4) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2021-10-01 10:04:50 +0200 | emf | (~emf@2620:10d:c090:400::5:2fc4) |
| 2021-10-01 10:05:25 +0200 | hendursa1 | (~weechat@user/hendursaga) |
| 2021-10-01 10:05:38 +0200 | hyiltiz | (~quassel@31.220.5.250) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2021-10-01 10:05:48 +0200 | Preeti | (~Preeti@103.142.31.135) (Quit: Client closed) |
| 2021-10-01 10:05:57 +0200 | <Axman6> | Looks like Clojure now |
| 2021-10-01 10:06:54 +0200 | emf_ | (~emf@2601:602:9400:84d:83e:973e:4aa8:d9e5) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2021-10-01 10:06:58 +0200 | <Hecate> | real shame |
| 2021-10-01 10:07:10 +0200 | <Axman6> | oh I'm wrong, it went the other way around |
| 2021-10-01 10:07:19 +0200 | <Axman6> | https://github.com/facebook/duckling |
| 2021-10-01 10:07:49 +0200 | Guest6108 | (~anoop@103.142.31.135) (Quit: Client closed) |
| 2021-10-01 10:08:46 +0200 | <Hecate> | yes, duckling clojure was deprecated in 2019 |
| 2021-10-01 10:08:52 +0200 | Althaf | (~Althaf@103.142.31.135) (Quit: Client closed) |
| 2021-10-01 10:08:55 +0200 | <Hecate> | well, another victory for Marlow I imagine :-P |
| 2021-10-01 10:09:03 +0200 | hendursaga | (~weechat@user/hendursaga) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 2021-10-01 10:09:41 +0200 | <Axman6> | yah |
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| 2021-10-01 10:17:33 +0200 | geekosaur | (~geekosaur@xmonad/geekosaur) (Killed (NickServ (GHOST command used by allbery_b))) |
| 2021-10-01 10:17:33 +0200 | allbery_b | (~geekosaur@xmonad/geekosaur) |
| 2021-10-01 10:17:36 +0200 | allbery_b | geekosaur |
| 2021-10-01 10:20:51 +0200 | Zeenath | (~Zeenath@103.142.31.135) (Quit: Client closed) |
| 2021-10-01 10:22:07 +0200 | benin0369323016 | (~benin@183.82.205.250) |
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| 2021-10-01 10:26:30 +0200 | chele_ | (~chele@user/chele) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2021-10-01 10:26:30 +0200 | Vajb | (~Vajb@hag-jnsbng11-58c3a8-176.dhcp.inet.fi) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2021-10-01 10:26:30 +0200 | myShoggoth | (~myShoggot@97-120-70-214.ptld.qwest.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2021-10-01 10:26:34 +0200 | <lortabac_> | kuribas: in some sense pi types are the natural progression in generalization power: simple types -> forall -> pi |
| 2021-10-01 10:26:37 +0200 | acidjnk_new | (~acidjnk@p200300d0c703cb709cd806e9bafd3ecc.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
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| 2021-10-01 10:26:46 +0200 | dibblego | (~dibblego@haskell/developer/dibblego) (Excess Flood) |
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| 2021-10-01 10:27:03 +0200 | dibblego | (~dibblego@haskell/developer/dibblego) |
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| 2021-10-01 10:27:12 +0200 | sclv_ | (sid39734@haskell/developer/sclv) |
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| 2021-10-01 10:28:58 +0200 | sclv_ | sclv |
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| 2021-10-01 10:43:13 +0200 | tinwood | (~tinwood@general.default.akavanagh.uk0.bigv.io) (Changing host) |
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| 2021-10-01 10:49:28 +0200 | hnOsmium0001 | (uid453710@id-453710.hampstead.irccloud.com) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) |
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| 2021-10-01 10:58:11 +0200 | ubert1 | ubert |
| 2021-10-01 11:01:07 +0200 | CiaoSen | (~Jura@p200300c9571bb9002a3a4dfffe84dbd5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2021-10-01 11:01:43 +0200 | CiaoSen | (~Jura@p5dcc151c.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 2021-10-01 11:02:08 +0200 | lortabac_ | lortabac |
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| 2021-10-01 11:03:27 +0200 | MQ-17J | (~MQ-17J@d192-24-122-179.try.wideopenwest.com) |
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| 2021-10-01 11:06:54 +0200 | Philonous_ | (~Philonous@user/philonous) |
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| 2021-10-01 11:29:49 +0200 | turlando_ | (~turlando@93-42-250-112.ip89.fastwebnet.it) (Quit: turlando_) |
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| 2021-10-01 11:30:14 +0200 | turlando | (~turlando@user/turlando) |
| 2021-10-01 11:34:44 +0200 | azeem | (~azeem@2a00:801:2d7:a6ce:1ae9:943a:b76:848d) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
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| 2021-10-01 11:36:32 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) |
| 2021-10-01 11:37:06 +0200 | jonathanx | (~jonathan@dyn-8-sc.cdg.chalmers.se) |
| 2021-10-01 11:38:01 +0200 | cfricke | (~cfricke@user/cfricke) (Quit: WeeChat 3.2.1) |
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| 2021-10-01 11:40:39 +0200 | shailangsa_ | (~shailangs@host217-39-45-200.range217-39.btcentralplus.com) |
| 2021-10-01 11:42:41 +0200 | L29Ah | (~L29Ah@wikipedia/L29Ah) |
| 2021-10-01 11:45:16 +0200 | Athas_ | Athtas |
| 2021-10-01 11:45:18 +0200 | Athtas | Athas |
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| 2021-10-01 11:53:41 +0200 | EPic_ | APic |
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| 2021-10-01 12:01:59 +0200 | y04nn | (~y04nn@193.32.127.238) |
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| 2021-10-01 12:07:14 +0200 | neurocyte0132 | (~neurocyte@185.117.69.4) |
| 2021-10-01 12:07:14 +0200 | neurocyte0132 | (~neurocyte@185.117.69.4) (Changing host) |
| 2021-10-01 12:07:14 +0200 | neurocyte0132 | (~neurocyte@user/neurocyte) |
| 2021-10-01 12:07:14 +0200 | azeem | (~azeem@emp-93-135.eduroam.uu.se) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2021-10-01 12:08:41 +0200 | azeem | (~azeem@emp-93-135.eduroam.uu.se) |
| 2021-10-01 12:09:21 +0200 | eggplantade | (~Eggplanta@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:75c8:94d0:d9df:71f1) |
| 2021-10-01 12:10:03 +0200 | wagle_ | wagle |
| 2021-10-01 12:10:31 +0200 | <maerwald> | https://hackage.haskell.org/package/lol |
| 2021-10-01 12:10:33 +0200 | <maerwald> | ok |
| 2021-10-01 12:10:50 +0200 | ub | (~Thunderbi@178.115.54.19.wireless.dyn.drei.com) |
| 2021-10-01 12:12:46 +0200 | acidjnk_new | (~acidjnk@p200300d0c703cb709cd806e9bafd3ecc.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
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| 2021-10-01 12:16:58 +0200 | acidjnk | (~acidjnk@p200300d0c703cb709cd806e9bafd3ecc.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
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| 2021-10-01 12:19:41 +0200 | Cajun | (~Cajun@user/cajun) (Quit: Client closed) |
| 2021-10-01 12:19:43 +0200 | ub | (~Thunderbi@178.115.54.19.wireless.dyn.drei.com) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2021-10-01 12:19:47 +0200 | ubert1 | (~Thunderbi@91.141.77.30.wireless.dyn.drei.com) |
| 2021-10-01 12:19:48 +0200 | ub1 | (~Thunderbi@91.141.77.30.wireless.dyn.drei.com) |
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| 2021-10-01 12:20:19 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) |
| 2021-10-01 12:20:19 +0200 | ubert | (~Thunderbi@178.115.54.19.wireless.dyn.drei.com) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2021-10-01 12:20:19 +0200 | ub1 | ubert |
| 2021-10-01 12:21:17 +0200 | acidjnk_new3 | (~acidjnk@p200300d0c703cb709cd806e9bafd3ecc.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
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| 2021-10-01 12:24:34 +0200 | acidjnk_new | (~acidjnk@p200300d0c703cb709cd806e9bafd3ecc.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 2021-10-01 12:24:43 +0200 | acidjnk | (~acidjnk@p200300d0c703cb709cd806e9bafd3ecc.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
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| 2021-10-01 12:25:52 +0200 | Athas | (athas@2a01:7c8:aaac:1cf:bdef:2986:fd38:4ec7) (Quit: ZNC 1.8.2 - https://znc.in) |
| 2021-10-01 12:26:03 +0200 | Athas | (athas@sigkill.dk) |
| 2021-10-01 12:26:11 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) |
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| 2021-10-01 12:32:01 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) |
| 2021-10-01 12:36:38 +0200 | vysn | (~vysn@user/vysn) |
| 2021-10-01 12:38:01 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2021-10-01 12:38:12 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) |
| 2021-10-01 12:42:17 +0200 | clever_ | clever |
| 2021-10-01 12:44:22 +0200 | mikoto-chan | (~mikoto-ch@83.137.2.243) (Quit: mikoto-chan) |
| 2021-10-01 12:45:46 +0200 | alzgh | (~alzgh@user/alzgh) |
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| 2021-10-01 12:49:45 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) |
| 2021-10-01 12:50:16 +0200 | <kuribas> | lortabac: pi *is* forall, in the logic sense. |
| 2021-10-01 12:54:56 +0200 | notzmv | (~zmv@user/notzmv) |
| 2021-10-01 12:56:44 +0200 | fendor | (~fendor@e234-173.eduroam.tuwien.ac.at) |
| 2021-10-01 12:56:53 +0200 | azeem | (~azeem@2a00:801:2d7:a6ce:1ae9:943a:b76:848d) |
| 2021-10-01 12:57:25 +0200 | azeem | (~azeem@2a00:801:2d7:a6ce:1ae9:943a:b76:848d) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2021-10-01 12:59:23 +0200 | azeem | (~azeem@emp-93-135.eduroam.uu.se) |
| 2021-10-01 13:00:44 +0200 | alx741 | (~alx741@181.196.69.214) |
| 2021-10-01 13:04:16 +0200 | xiongxin | (~quassel@113.116.35.63) |
| 2021-10-01 13:05:38 +0200 | Cajun | (~Cajun@user/cajun) |
| 2021-10-01 13:07:46 +0200 | Pickchea | (~private@user/pickchea) |
| 2021-10-01 13:07:56 +0200 | peutri_ | peutri |
| 2021-10-01 13:08:17 +0200 | <kuribas> | The difference is that in haskell forall, it can only take a type as parameter. |
| 2021-10-01 13:08:23 +0200 | dhouthoo | (~dhouthoo@178-117-36-167.access.telenet.be) |
| 2021-10-01 13:08:51 +0200 | <kuribas> | where in pi, it can take any type. |
| 2021-10-01 13:11:35 +0200 | hyiltiz | (~quassel@31.220.5.250) |
| 2021-10-01 13:13:59 +0200 | <tomsmeding_> | kuribas: "in haskell, forall can only take a type as parameter, where in pi, it can take any type" |
| 2021-10-01 13:14:11 +0200 | <tomsmeding_> | that's twice the same thing, right? :p |
| 2021-10-01 13:14:28 +0200 | tomsmeding_ | tomsmeding |
| 2021-10-01 13:14:56 +0200 | <[exa]> | +1 I failed to parse that too |
| 2021-10-01 13:15:11 +0200 | lavaman | (~lavaman@98.38.249.169) |
| 2021-10-01 13:17:13 +0200 | <Hecate> | s/a/one/ maybe? |
| 2021-10-01 13:17:30 +0200 | <Hecate> | or Type as opposed to (Type -> Type) ? |
| 2021-10-01 13:17:31 +0200 | azeem | (~azeem@emp-93-135.eduroam.uu.se) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2021-10-01 13:18:15 +0200 | azeem | (~azeem@emp-93-135.eduroam.uu.se) |
| 2021-10-01 13:18:17 +0200 | <lortabac> | kuribas: yes, I meant: just as you gain generalization power by going from simple types to ML-style polymorphism, you can gain even more generality with pi |
| 2021-10-01 13:20:17 +0200 | <lortabac> | in this sense, dependent types are kind-of a natural next step for languages with polymorphism |
| 2021-10-01 13:20:55 +0200 | lavaman | (~lavaman@98.38.249.169) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2021-10-01 13:24:54 +0200 | neurocyte0132 | (~neurocyte@user/neurocyte) (Quit: The Lounge - https://thelounge.chat) |
| 2021-10-01 13:25:04 +0200 | neurocyte0132 | (~neurocyte@185.117.69.4) |
| 2021-10-01 13:25:04 +0200 | neurocyte0132 | (~neurocyte@185.117.69.4) (Changing host) |
| 2021-10-01 13:25:04 +0200 | neurocyte0132 | (~neurocyte@user/neurocyte) |
| 2021-10-01 13:25:35 +0200 | <byorgey> | I think that should say "where in pi, it can take any term" |
| 2021-10-01 13:27:28 +0200 | eggplantade | (~Eggplanta@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:75c8:94d0:d9df:71f1) |
| 2021-10-01 13:29:10 +0200 | azeem | (~azeem@emp-93-135.eduroam.uu.se) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2021-10-01 13:29:49 +0200 | Gurkenglas | (~Gurkengla@dslb-002-203-144-204.002.203.pools.vodafone-ip.de) |
| 2021-10-01 13:31:55 +0200 | eggplantade | (~Eggplanta@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:75c8:94d0:d9df:71f1) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2021-10-01 13:32:33 +0200 | azeem | (~azeem@emp-93-135.eduroam.uu.se) |
| 2021-10-01 13:33:33 +0200 | user133769 | (~Jaitoon@188.241.156.59) |
| 2021-10-01 13:34:58 +0200 | user133769 | (~Jaitoon@188.241.156.59) (Client Quit) |
| 2021-10-01 13:35:17 +0200 | user133769 | (~Jaitoon@188.241.156.59) |
| 2021-10-01 13:35:25 +0200 | user133769 | (~Jaitoon@188.241.156.59) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2021-10-01 13:35:43 +0200 | jaitoon | (~Jaitoon@188.241.156.59) |
| 2021-10-01 13:40:07 +0200 | waleee | (~waleee@2001:9b0:216:8200:d457:9189:7843:1dbd) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2021-10-01 13:40:31 +0200 | waleee | (~waleee@h-98-128-228-119.NA.cust.bahnhof.se) |
| 2021-10-01 13:41:10 +0200 | acidjnk_new | (~acidjnk@p200300d0c703cb709cd806e9bafd3ecc.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2021-10-01 13:41:10 +0200 | acidjnk_new3 | (~acidjnk@p200300d0c703cb709cd806e9bafd3ecc.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2021-10-01 13:43:10 +0200 | machinedgod | (~machinedg@135-23-192-217.cpe.pppoe.ca) |
| 2021-10-01 13:44:30 +0200 | slowButPresent | (~slowButPr@user/slowbutpresent) |
| 2021-10-01 13:47:32 +0200 | absence_ | absence |
| 2021-10-01 13:49:18 +0200 | lechner | (~lechner@debian/lechner) |
| 2021-10-01 13:50:28 +0200 | hyiltiz | (~quassel@31.220.5.250) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2021-10-01 13:52:27 +0200 | <absence> | i'm a bit confused by the async library. i only see "hi there" when i run this program, but i had expected to see at least "before" as well. what am i missing? https://pastebin.com/eM9JFa4v |
| 2021-10-01 13:54:25 +0200 | <merijn> | the usage of flip and withAsync there is confusing as hell |
| 2021-10-01 13:55:03 +0200 | <merijn> | My suspiciion is that your use of pure is rather confusing/misleading there |
| 2021-10-01 13:55:16 +0200 | <merijn> | You also basically don't use the async in your code |
| 2021-10-01 13:55:43 +0200 | hyiltiz | (~quassel@31.220.5.250) |
| 2021-10-01 13:55:52 +0200 | <absence> | don't use it? what do you mean? |
| 2021-10-01 13:57:44 +0200 | <merijn> | absence: the idea of withAsync (and similar with functions) is that the scope of your use is limited to that with block |
| 2021-10-01 13:57:59 +0200 | <merijn> | Instead you're (ab)using pure to leak the handle outside of the with block and using it then |
| 2021-10-01 13:58:15 +0200 | <absence> | oh, i didn't realise that was abuse |
| 2021-10-01 13:58:23 +0200 | <merijn> | tbh, I'm not even sure what's supposed to happen in your code |
| 2021-10-01 13:59:06 +0200 | <absence> | ahh, sorry, i didn't catch the part of the documentation that says the thread is killed after withAsync finishes |
| 2021-10-01 13:59:15 +0200 | <absence> | my bad |
| 2021-10-01 13:59:17 +0200 | <merijn> | absence: What you should be doing is move your do block into a name, then withAsync yourDoBlock $ \handle -> do { link handle; putStrLn "hi there"; threadDelay 1000000000 }" |
| 2021-10-01 13:59:39 +0200 | <merijn> | absence: The entire point of withAsync is to prevent leaving long running threads when the main code that needed them exits/crashes |
| 2021-10-01 14:00:24 +0200 | max22- | (~maxime@lfbn-ren-1-762-224.w81-53.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 2021-10-01 14:00:29 +0200 | <absence> | merijn: right, whereas i want to spawn something to run in the background, so that's clearly the opposite of what i want :) |
| 2021-10-01 14:08:21 +0200 | <kuribas> | tomsmeding: I mean, in pi it can take a variable of any type. |
| 2021-10-01 14:08:28 +0200 | <kuribas> | tomsmeding: instead of just type "Type". |
| 2021-10-01 14:10:48 +0200 | mei | (~mei@user/mei) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2021-10-01 14:11:56 +0200 | fendor_ | (~fendor@e234-029.eduroam.tuwien.ac.at) |
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| 2021-10-01 14:23:47 +0200 | [itchyjunk] | (~itchyjunk@user/itchyjunk/x-7353470) |
| 2021-10-01 14:24:24 +0200 | exarkun | (~exarkun@user/exarkun) |
| 2021-10-01 14:25:54 +0200 | bitdex | (~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex) (Quit: = "") |
| 2021-10-01 14:27:12 +0200 | geekosaur | (~geekosaur@xmonad/geekosaur) (Remote host closed the connection) |
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| 2021-10-01 14:28:18 +0200 | cherryblossom | (~cherryblo@user/cherryblossom) () |
| 2021-10-01 14:28:51 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | kuribas: ah, the capitalised T was significant ;) |
| 2021-10-01 14:29:09 +0200 | spruit11 | (~quassel@2a02:a467:ccd6:1:791a:e64e:ebb5:e20) |
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| 2021-10-01 14:38:37 +0200 | geekosaur | (~geekosaur@xmonad/geekosaur) |
| 2021-10-01 14:40:14 +0200 | Lorra | (~lorenzo@aftr-62-216-215-27.dynamic.mnet-online.de) |
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| 2021-10-01 14:47:02 +0200 | a6a45081-2b83 | (~aditya@2601:249:4300:1296:88ec:cc73:84d4:1507) |
| 2021-10-01 14:47:28 +0200 | <a6a45081-2b83> | am I confusing call by need in expecting `[(x1,x2)|(x1:x2:_)<-mapM(const[0..1])[0..]]` to terminate? |
| 2021-10-01 14:49:08 +0200 | <janus> | > [(x1,x2)|(x1:x2:_)<-mapM(const[0..1])[0..]] |
| 2021-10-01 14:49:14 +0200 | <lambdabot> | mueval-core: Time limit exceeded |
| 2021-10-01 14:49:37 +0200 | <janus> | > [(x1,x2)|(x1:x2:_)<-mapM(const[0..1])[0..20]] |
| 2021-10-01 14:49:39 +0200 | <lambdabot> | [(0,0),(0,0),(0,0),(0,0),(0,0),(0,0),(0,0),(0,0),(0,0),(0,0),(0,0),(0,0),(0,... |
| 2021-10-01 14:50:27 +0200 | <geekosaur> | iirc list comprehensions expand to use filter, which doesn't know there's a limit |
| 2021-10-01 14:50:39 +0200 | <geekosaur> | so it just keeps going |
| 2021-10-01 14:50:39 +0200 | ph88 | (~ph88@ip5f5af6fd.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) |
| 2021-10-01 14:51:05 +0200 | <geekosaur> | "call-by-need" only goes so far |
| 2021-10-01 14:51:22 +0200 | <janus> | has there always been haskellers writing with minimal spacing? or is it a new phenomenon? |
| 2021-10-01 14:51:37 +0200 | <a6a45081-2b83> | what would be an alternative way to then write this expression so that it terminates? |
| 2021-10-01 14:52:05 +0200 | <a6a45081-2b83> | janus: off-chance I wrote it like that |
| 2021-10-01 14:52:57 +0200 | <geekosaur> | actually writing that without spaces is slightly dangerous, because [x|...] is treated as a quasiquote, not a list comprehension. (defeated here by it being a tuple instead of a single variable) |
| 2021-10-01 14:53:07 +0200 | <janus> | what does "off-chance" mean? dictionary says "just in case". but that doesn't make sense in this context |
| 2021-10-01 14:53:26 +0200 | <geekosaur> | "it might be that" |
| 2021-10-01 14:53:30 +0200 | mrckndt | (~mrckndt@user/mrckndt) (Quit: mrckndt) |
| 2021-10-01 14:54:06 +0200 | mrckndt | (~mrckndt@user/mrckndt) |
| 2021-10-01 14:54:18 +0200 | <janus> | ah, i was thinking that you wrote it like that because you had joined the movement :P but i guess there really is no minimal-spacing haskell movement then |
| 2021-10-01 14:54:27 +0200 | <janus> | or it is incognito o_O |
| 2021-10-01 14:54:56 +0200 | raehik | (~raehik@cpc95906-rdng25-2-0-cust156.15-3.cable.virginm.net) |
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| 2021-10-01 14:57:39 +0200 | Alex_test_ | Alex_test |
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| 2021-10-01 14:59:36 +0200 | kenran | (~kenran@b2b-37-24-119-190.unitymedia.biz) |
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| 2021-10-01 15:02:04 +0200 | <geekosaur> | in general we don't go for minimal spacing because it's way better when you can read it easily |
| 2021-10-01 15:02:47 +0200 | Vajb | (~Vajb@hag-jnsbng11-58c3a8-176.dhcp.inet.fi) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2021-10-01 15:02:56 +0200 | <geekosaur> | (granting that "read it easily" in Haskell often means having the right math on tap — but then, that makes being able to read it easily even more important if you don't) |
| 2021-10-01 15:03:28 +0200 | Vajb | (~Vajb@hag-jnsbng11-58c3a8-176.dhcp.inet.fi) |
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| 2021-10-01 15:03:50 +0200 | geranim0 | (~geranim0@modemcable242.171-178-173.mc.videotron.ca) |
| 2021-10-01 15:04:05 +0200 | <geekosaur> | what I find most helpful with things like that is considering that I need to be able to easily understand what I wrote when I come back to it 6 months later after having worked on other stuff |
| 2021-10-01 15:04:18 +0200 | <geekosaur> | future you will thank you a lot for being as clear as possible |
| 2021-10-01 15:04:43 +0200 | <geekosaur> | clear coding, good comments, and so on |
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| 2021-10-01 15:10:16 +0200 | fendor__ | fendor |
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| 2021-10-01 15:43:00 +0200 | max22- | (~maxime@2a01cb0883359800cfca41976f0516e3.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
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| 2021-10-01 15:47:03 +0200 | wroathe | (~wroathe@user/wroathe) |
| 2021-10-01 16:01:26 +0200 | <merijn> | geekosaur: More opaque newtypes is also a great thing :p |
| 2021-10-01 16:03:07 +0200 | hyiltiz | (~quassel@31.220.5.250) |
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| 2021-10-01 16:22:48 +0200 | gehmehgeh | (~user@user/gehmehgeh) |
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| 2021-10-01 16:27:28 +0200 | <jaitoon> | hi, do you guys have any recommendations for a good beginner FP book? |
| 2021-10-01 16:28:25 +0200 | <merijn> | @where books |
| 2021-10-01 16:28:25 +0200 | <lambdabot> | https://www.extrema.is/articles/haskell-books, see also @where LYAH, RWH, YAHT, SOE, HR, PIH, TFwH, wikibook, PCPH, HPFFP, HTAC, TwT, FoP, PFAD, WYAH, non-haskell-books |
| 2021-10-01 16:28:57 +0200 | <merijn> | @where PIH |
| 2021-10-01 16:28:57 +0200 | <lambdabot> | "Programming in Haskell" by Graham Hutton in 2007-01-15,2016-09-01 at <http://www.cs.nott.ac.uk/~pszgmh/pih.html> |
| 2021-10-01 16:29:08 +0200 | <[itchyjunk]> | @where non-haskell-books |
| 2021-10-01 16:29:08 +0200 | <lambdabot> | `SICP',`CTM',`TaPL',`AtTaPL',`APLD',`PLAI',`TAOCP',`SF',`CPDT',`TTFP',`PFPL',`SICM',`TTT',`EOPL',`AIMA',`PAIP',`AoP',`PLFA',`CTfP',`book-acronyms' |
| 2021-10-01 16:29:36 +0200 | <merijn> | jaitoon: That one I've heard good things about, there's also Richard Bird's "Thinking Functionally with Haskell" |
| 2021-10-01 16:29:40 +0200 | <merijn> | and |
| 2021-10-01 16:29:46 +0200 | <merijn> | @where HPFFP |
| 2021-10-01 16:29:46 +0200 | <lambdabot> | "Haskell Programming: from first principles - Pure functional programming without fear or frustration" by Chistopher Allen (bitemyapp),Julie Moronuki at <http://haskellbook.com/>,#haskell-beginners |
| 2021-10-01 16:30:45 +0200 | shriekingnoise | (~shrieking@186.137.144.80) |
| 2021-10-01 16:33:25 +0200 | spruit11 | (~quassel@2a02:a467:ccd6:1:791a:e64e:ebb5:e20) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2021-10-01 16:33:51 +0200 | gehmehgeh | (~user@user/gehmehgeh) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 2021-10-01 16:34:54 +0200 | <[itchyjunk]> | Hmm, i have a dumb question on this topic. is there a FP book i could read during commute where i can't be trying out the code and such? |
| 2021-10-01 16:35:18 +0200 | kenran | (~kenran@b2b-37-24-119-190.unitymedia.biz) (Quit: WeeChat info:version) |
| 2021-10-01 16:35:24 +0200 | gehmehgeh | (~user@user/gehmehgeh) |
| 2021-10-01 16:35:50 +0200 | <janus> | is Generics code generation? or is there a more accurate moniker? |
| 2021-10-01 16:35:55 +0200 | ec | (~ec@gateway/tor-sasl/ec) (Quit: ec) |
| 2021-10-01 16:36:06 +0200 | <justsomeguy> | [itchyjunk]: I've used https://www.replit.com for trying out code snippits on my phone. |
| 2021-10-01 16:36:32 +0200 | ystael | (~ystael@user/ystael) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2021-10-01 16:36:43 +0200 | <justsomeguy> | It would be nice if there were a codecademy style course for Haskell with an in-line interactive environment, but I haven't seen one yet. |
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| 2021-10-01 16:43:48 +0200 | Pickchea | (~private@user/pickchea) |
| 2021-10-01 16:44:58 +0200 | Gurkenglas | (~Gurkengla@dslb-002-203-144-204.002.203.pools.vodafone-ip.de) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2021-10-01 16:46:38 +0200 | spruit11 | (~quassel@2a02:a467:ccd6:1:791a:e64e:ebb5:e20) |
| 2021-10-01 16:52:35 +0200 | hyiltiz | (~quassel@31.220.5.250) |
| 2021-10-01 16:53:29 +0200 | spruit11 | (~quassel@2a02:a467:ccd6:1:791a:e64e:ebb5:e20) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 2021-10-01 16:55:14 +0200 | <byorgey> | janus: Generics is not code generation, though it can serve a similar purpose. Generics makes a common generic representation for all data types, so you can write code that works in the same way for all data types once and for all |
| 2021-10-01 16:55:19 +0200 | wroathe | (~wroathe@user/wroathe) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2021-10-01 16:55:25 +0200 | <byorgey> | so you don't have to keep re-implementing the same pattern over and over for each new data types |
| 2021-10-01 17:00:48 +0200 | <ldlework> | byorgey: Isn't it true that for some languages the compiler really does generate "concrete implementations" under the hood? |
| 2021-10-01 17:01:09 +0200 | <ldlework> | I think that's the sense in which they probably meant "code generation" |
| 2021-10-01 17:01:28 +0200 | azeem | (~azeem@emp-93-135.eduroam.uu.se) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2021-10-01 17:02:40 +0200 | <kuribas> | ldlework: not sure what you mean, generics is something specific to haskell. |
| 2021-10-01 17:02:50 +0200 | <byorgey> | I suppose it might, with SPECIALIZE pragmas or something. And of course when you 'derive Generic' the compiler is generating the code for a Generic instance |
| 2021-10-01 17:03:23 +0200 | <ldlework> | kuribas: generics isn't something specific to haskell...? |
| 2021-10-01 17:03:36 +0200 | <byorgey> | kuribas: it can be, or it could refer to e.g. Java generics, as in polymorphism. I'm not sure which janus meant, actually. |
| 2021-10-01 17:03:46 +0200 | <kuribas> | ldlework: then which language has it? |
| 2021-10-01 17:03:49 +0200 | justsomeguy | (~justsomeg@user/justsomeguy) |
| 2021-10-01 17:03:54 +0200 | <byorgey> | ldlework: https://hackage.haskell.org/package/base-4.15.0.0/docs/GHC-Generics.html |
| 2021-10-01 17:03:56 +0200 | <ldlework> | kuribas: lots of languages have generics.. |
| 2021-10-01 17:04:28 +0200 | <kuribas> | ldlework: yes, but as byorgey says, generics means something else there, namely parameteric polymorphism. |
| 2021-10-01 17:04:36 +0200 | <ldlework> | byorgey: in Nim or Typescript for example, add<T>(a: T, b: T) => a + b, or whatever, under the hood, the compiler generates "concrete implementation" versions of add, for each concrete type used in the program |
| 2021-10-01 17:04:39 +0200 | <byorgey> | words have multiple meanings, news at 11! |
| 2021-10-01 17:04:58 +0200 | <kuribas> | ok, so they mean parametric polymorphism :) |
| 2021-10-01 17:05:25 +0200 | <ldlework> | well that's one valid interpretation of their question, and the one that most aligns with an intuition of code generation |
| 2021-10-01 17:05:34 +0200 | <byorgey> | ldlework: yes, if we're talking about generics-the-general-language-feature, some languages (but not all) do generate code for each concrete type used. Most famously C++ does this. |
| 2021-10-01 17:05:59 +0200 | <byorgey> | But Haskell does not (unless you specifically ask it to), and I don't think Java does either. |
| 2021-10-01 17:06:27 +0200 | <kuribas> | ldlework: usually GHC creates a polymorphic (non specialized) function, but it will specialize it in some cases for performance, or if you ask for it. |
| 2021-10-01 17:06:40 +0200 | <ldlework> | Also, whether or not the compiler implementation detail exists, it's not a bad initial mental model for parametric polymorphism. |
| 2021-10-01 17:07:46 +0200 | wroathe | (~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) |
| 2021-10-01 17:07:46 +0200 | wroathe | (~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) (Changing host) |
| 2021-10-01 17:07:46 +0200 | wroathe | (~wroathe@user/wroathe) |
| 2021-10-01 17:12:13 +0200 | lortabac | (~lortabac@2a01:e0a:541:b8f0:25dc:3c77:c611:d13f) (Quit: WeeChat 2.8) |
| 2021-10-01 17:14:56 +0200 | hnOsmium0001 | (uid453710@id-453710.hampstead.irccloud.com) |
| 2021-10-01 17:15:44 +0200 | <janus> | byorgey: let's say i use DeriveGeneric, and I derive ToJSON with it. Is it code generation? What is the distinguishing criteria? Let's say I only derive Eq, and nothing else. Is it code generation? I wouldn't need DeriveGeneric for that. |
| 2021-10-01 17:15:54 +0200 | azeem | (~azeem@2a00:801:428:f4e3:face:8eed:b26f:ce9c) |
| 2021-10-01 17:16:27 +0200 | spruit11 | (~quassel@2a02:a467:ccd6:1:791a:e64e:ebb5:e20) |
| 2021-10-01 17:16:43 +0200 | <janus> | or is it just code gen whenever i have "deriving" independently of whether i use Generic or not? |
| 2021-10-01 17:16:54 +0200 | <dminuoso> | Well deriving certainly does generate code, but only on demand. |
| 2021-10-01 17:17:08 +0200 | <dminuoso> | If you dont specify deriving, nothing gets generated. |
| 2021-10-01 17:17:26 +0200 | <dminuoso> | The ToJSON instance implicitly also generates code (in terms of the simplifier, *if* it kicks in) |
| 2021-10-01 17:17:29 +0200 | ubert1 | (~Thunderbi@91.141.77.30.wireless.dyn.drei.com) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2021-10-01 17:17:51 +0200 | <dminuoso> | It's an interesting example certainly |
| 2021-10-01 17:17:55 +0200 | lavaman | (~lavaman@98.38.249.169) |
| 2021-10-01 17:18:21 +0200 | <dminuoso> | Because usually for generic code, users often implicitly assume the simplifer will massage the generic code into the most efficient shape (which is quite a mistake in my opinion, and yet here we are) |
| 2021-10-01 17:20:30 +0200 | Digit | (~user@user/digit) |
| 2021-10-01 17:20:43 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2021-10-01 17:22:16 +0200 | lavaman | (~lavaman@98.38.249.169) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2021-10-01 17:22:23 +0200 | a6a45081-2b83 | (~aditya@2601:249:4300:1296:88ec:cc73:84d4:1507) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2021-10-01 17:24:58 +0200 | MQ-17J | (~MQ-17J@d192-24-122-179.try.wideopenwest.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2021-10-01 17:26:22 +0200 | geekosaur | (~geekosaur@xmonad/geekosaur) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2021-10-01 17:26:22 +0200 | MQ-17J | (~MQ-17J@d192-24-122-179.try.wideopenwest.com) |
| 2021-10-01 17:26:44 +0200 | wroathe | (~wroathe@user/wroathe) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2021-10-01 17:26:48 +0200 | geekosaur | (~geekosaur@xmonad/geekosaur) |
| 2021-10-01 17:26:56 +0200 | <janus> | it's just that I see some people being weary of 'deriving Generic', maybe preferring TH or spelling it all out. But really, isn't it just moving code from the compiler itself to the standard library? Doesn't seem like its fundamentally different to rely on "stock deriving" and building on Generic |
| 2021-10-01 17:27:55 +0200 | <geekosaur> | the main reason to be wary of deriving Generic is that the compiler can do it but is not at all guaranteed to generate goood code in the process |
| 2021-10-01 17:28:12 +0200 | <Digit> | hi. attempting to use termonad, but FontSizePoints refuses to use 4.5, and seems there's no FontSizePixels. I can set it to 4.5 using the preferences gui, but since it does not keep these settings, would need to for every instance ~ not-fun workflow. Any suggestions/pointers (besides use different font size) welcome. |
| 2021-10-01 17:31:17 +0200 | Pickchea | (~private@user/pickchea) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 2021-10-01 17:31:32 +0200 | wroathe | (~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) |
| 2021-10-01 17:31:32 +0200 | wroathe | (~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) (Changing host) |
| 2021-10-01 17:31:32 +0200 | wroathe | (~wroathe@user/wroathe) |
| 2021-10-01 17:34:12 +0200 | <janus> | geekosaur: all the instances that can be "stock derived" will have good generated code? (never minding the fact that Show uses linked lists) |
| 2021-10-01 17:35:01 +0200 | <geekosaur> | all the instances that can be "stock derived" ae trivial and will either have good code or will be easily fixed by the simplifier |
| 2021-10-01 17:35:20 +0200 | <geekosaur> | DeriveGeneric produces a lot of complex code |
| 2021-10-01 17:35:27 +0200 | <janus> | hmm i wonder if the code that PureScript generates for BoundedEnum is bad, since they use Generic for that... |
| 2021-10-01 17:35:40 +0200 | <dminuoso> | With Foldable/Traversable hand written code can in edge cases be more performant, though. |
| 2021-10-01 17:35:45 +0200 | <janus> | but they probably just hope v8 will solve everything |
| 2021-10-01 17:36:07 +0200 | CiaoSen | (~Jura@p200300c9571bb9002a3a4dfffe84dbd5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2021-10-01 17:36:11 +0200 | <dminuoso> | But really, you hear this from GHC folks too, that you should absolutely not rely on Generic code being efficient. |
| 2021-10-01 17:36:26 +0200 | chisui | (~chisui@200116b8683fc700452c17731eb61342.dip.versatel-1u1.de) |
| 2021-10-01 17:36:41 +0200 | Null_A | (~null_a@2601:645:8700:2290:e9de:2461:c7b1:d42b) |
| 2021-10-01 17:36:59 +0200 | eggplantade | (~Eggplanta@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:75c8:94d0:d9df:71f1) |
| 2021-10-01 17:36:59 +0200 | <janus> | i am mostly worried about compile times and the lack of greppability (for i.e. ToJSON) |
| 2021-10-01 17:37:00 +0200 | <dminuoso> | Plus, like geekosaur said, generic code is extremely complex, so that costs a lot of performance and RAM in the simplifier. |
| 2021-10-01 17:37:06 +0200 | CiaoSen | (~Jura@p5dcc151c.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 2021-10-01 17:37:17 +0200 | <dminuoso> | Aeson comes with TH helpers https://hackage.haskell.org/package/aeson-1.5.6.0/docs/Data-Aeson-TH.html |
| 2021-10-01 17:37:44 +0200 | rtjure | (~rtjure@bras-79-132-17-74.comnet.bg) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2021-10-01 17:38:06 +0200 | <janus> | it's just fascinating how different these approaches are |
| 2021-10-01 17:38:09 +0200 | <dminuoso> | Our experience is that generic aeson instances blew up compilation times horribly. |
| 2021-10-01 17:38:31 +0200 | <dminuoso> | We still use them because the places where they appear dont change often, so its only rare recompilations that take a few minutes. |
| 2021-10-01 17:39:25 +0200 | spruit11 | (~quassel@2a02:a467:ccd6:1:791a:e64e:ebb5:e20) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2021-10-01 17:39:47 +0200 | goepsilongo | (~chacho@2603-7000-ab00-62ed-0000-0000-0000-0bd0.res6.spectrum.com) |
| 2021-10-01 17:41:17 +0200 | eggplantade | (~Eggplanta@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:75c8:94d0:d9df:71f1) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2021-10-01 17:43:57 +0200 | fizzsegfaultbuzz | (~segfaultf@135-180-0-138.static.sonic.net) |
| 2021-10-01 17:44:13 +0200 | mikoto-chan | (~mikoto-ch@ip-83-134-2-136.dsl.scarlet.be) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2021-10-01 17:44:47 +0200 | wroathe | (~wroathe@user/wroathe) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2021-10-01 17:47:26 +0200 | eggplantade | (~Eggplanta@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:75c8:94d0:d9df:71f1) |
| 2021-10-01 17:48:21 +0200 | Gurkenglas | (~Gurkengla@dslb-002-203-144-204.002.203.pools.vodafone-ip.de) |
| 2021-10-01 17:49:19 +0200 | hyiltiz | (~quassel@31.220.5.250) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2021-10-01 17:49:54 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) |
| 2021-10-01 17:51:05 +0200 | cfricke | (~cfricke@user/cfricke) (Quit: WeeChat 3.2.1) |
| 2021-10-01 17:54:47 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2021-10-01 17:55:16 +0200 | spruit11 | (~quassel@2a02:a467:ccd6:1:791a:e64e:ebb5:e20) |
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| 2021-10-01 17:56:30 +0200 | amirouche | (~amirouche@user/amirouche) |
| 2021-10-01 17:57:11 +0200 | wroathe | (~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) |
| 2021-10-01 17:57:11 +0200 | wroathe | (~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) (Changing host) |
| 2021-10-01 17:57:11 +0200 | wroathe | (~wroathe@user/wroathe) |
| 2021-10-01 18:00:38 +0200 | [itchyjunk] | (~itchyjunk@user/itchyjunk/x-7353470) (Remote host closed the connection) |
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| 2021-10-01 18:05:37 +0200 | hyiltiz | (~quassel@31.220.5.250) |
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| 2021-10-01 18:06:43 +0200 | alzgh | (~alzgh@user/alzgh) |
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| 2021-10-01 18:07:30 +0200 | emf | (~emf@2620:10d:c090:400::5:113f) |
| 2021-10-01 18:08:57 +0200 | xiongxin | (~quassel@113.116.35.63) (Quit: https://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.) |
| 2021-10-01 18:13:57 +0200 | justsomeguy | (~justsomeg@user/justsomeguy) (Quit: WeeChat 3.2) |
| 2021-10-01 18:14:37 +0200 | _ht | (~quassel@82-169-194-8.biz.kpn.net) |
| 2021-10-01 18:16:16 +0200 | vpan | (~vilius@212.117.1.172) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2021-10-01 18:20:27 +0200 | kuribas | (~user@ptr-25vy0i7d2y83zcd1kk6.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2021-10-01 18:26:43 +0200 | Clint | (~Clint@user/clint) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 2021-10-01 18:28:16 +0200 | Clint | (~Clint@user/clint) |
| 2021-10-01 18:29:04 +0200 | lbseale | (~lbseale@user/ep1ctetus) |
| 2021-10-01 18:31:15 +0200 | vpan | (~vilius@212.117.1.172) |
| 2021-10-01 18:32:53 +0200 | mikoto-chan | (~mikoto-ch@ip-83-134-2-136.dsl.scarlet.be) |
| 2021-10-01 18:33:53 +0200 | nfd | (~nfd@user/nfd) |
| 2021-10-01 18:35:37 +0200 | tomsmeding | wonders when tunes.org-style logging will arrive, given that the topics says that it "should be coming soon" |
| 2021-10-01 18:35:45 +0200 | <myShoggoth> | Haskell Foundation September Seven Month Update Extravaganza: https://haskell-foundation.medium.com/haskell-foundation-september-seven-month-update-extravaganza… |
| 2021-10-01 18:36:28 +0200 | Gurkenglas | (~Gurkengla@dslb-002-203-144-204.002.203.pools.vodafone-ip.de) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2021-10-01 18:38:01 +0200 | geekosaur | has been wondering that since he set the /topic |
| 2021-10-01 18:38:17 +0200 | <geekosaur> | actually I considered dropping that part since it didn't seem to be happening |
| 2021-10-01 18:38:44 +0200 | ChanServ | +o geekosaur |
| 2021-10-01 18:39:01 +0200 | | https://www.reddit.com/r/haskell | Admin: #haskell-ops | Offtopic: #haskell-offtopic | https://downloads.haskell.org | Paste code/errors: https://paste.tomsmeding.com | Logs: https://ircbrowse.tomsmeding.com/browse/lchaskell |
| 2021-10-01 18:39:05 +0200 | geekosaur | -o geekosaur |
| 2021-10-01 18:42:24 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | lol geekosaur |
| 2021-10-01 18:42:33 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | oh you also said something |
| 2021-10-01 18:42:46 +0200 | alzgh | (~alzgh@user/alzgh) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2021-10-01 18:42:52 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | for a second there I thought you'd just removed that entry from the topic without saying anything |
| 2021-10-01 18:43:06 +0200 | alzgh | (~alzgh@user/alzgh) |
| 2021-10-01 18:43:23 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | I mean, I can host the znc log files that ircbrowse is reading from |
| 2021-10-01 18:43:33 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | from what I remember that's what tunes hosted anyway |
| 2021-10-01 18:43:40 +0200 | <geekosaur> | yeh |
| 2021-10-01 18:43:58 +0200 | <geekosaur> | although iirc it did provide minimal browsing capability |
| 2021-10-01 18:44:21 +0200 | <geekosaur> | ?C=N&O=D whatever that meant to its browser |
| 2021-10-01 18:44:21 +0200 | <lambdabot> | Unknown command, try @list |
| 2021-10-01 18:44:40 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | I think I tried to remove those parameters at some point and I got the same content back, but not sure |
| 2021-10-01 18:45:25 +0200 | wroathe | (~wroathe@user/wroathe) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2021-10-01 18:46:04 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) |
| 2021-10-01 18:50:23 +0200 | MQ-17J | (~MQ-17J@d192-24-122-179.try.wideopenwest.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2021-10-01 18:53:00 +0200 | smitop | (~smitop@user/smitop) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2021-10-01 18:53:58 +0200 | chisui | (~chisui@200116b8683fc700452c17731eb61342.dip.versatel-1u1.de) (Quit: Client closed) |
| 2021-10-01 18:54:24 +0200 | benin0369323016 | (~benin@183.82.177.177) |
| 2021-10-01 18:54:26 +0200 | chisui | (~chisui@200116b8683fc700452c17731eb61342.dip.versatel-1u1.de) |
| 2021-10-01 18:54:55 +0200 | jespada | (~jespada@2803:9800:9842:7a62:9c1:415b:60ea:5a71) |
| 2021-10-01 18:56:22 +0200 | jespada | (~jespada@2803:9800:9842:7a62:9c1:415b:60ea:5a71) (Client Quit) |
| 2021-10-01 18:58:31 +0200 | Vajb | (~Vajb@n8vwdu04eps78g521-2.v6.elisa-mobile.fi) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2021-10-01 18:58:44 +0200 | Vajb | (~Vajb@hag-jnsbng11-58c3a8-176.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 2021-10-01 19:00:36 +0200 | econo | (uid147250@user/econo) |
| 2021-10-01 19:04:27 +0200 | vpan | (~vilius@212.117.1.172) (Quit: Leaving.) |
| 2021-10-01 19:06:10 +0200 | MQ-17J | (~MQ-17J@2607:fb90:8848:a516:92d8:c446:e2f1:d98e) |
| 2021-10-01 19:08:13 +0200 | ub | (~Thunderbi@178.115.52.70.wireless.dyn.drei.com) |
| 2021-10-01 19:09:31 +0200 | ubert | (~Thunderbi@91.141.77.30.wireless.dyn.drei.com) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2021-10-01 19:09:31 +0200 | ub | ubert |
| 2021-10-01 19:10:08 +0200 | Morrow | (~Morrow@bzq-110-168-31-106.red.bezeqint.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2021-10-01 19:12:28 +0200 | turlando | (~turlando@user/turlando) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2021-10-01 19:12:45 +0200 | turlando | (~turlando@user/turlando) |
| 2021-10-01 19:13:40 +0200 | mbuf | (~Shakthi@223.184.49.124) (Quit: Leaving) |
| 2021-10-01 19:18:44 +0200 | <sm> | there's logs available in #haskell:libera.chat on matrix, FWIW |
| 2021-10-01 19:19:25 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2021-10-01 19:19:28 +0200 | <sm> | not as fast to view, and not seen by search engines, but more precisely searchable by humans |
| 2021-10-01 19:20:18 +0200 | Fusion86 | (~Fusion@80-60-181-180.fixed.kpn.net) |
| 2021-10-01 19:20:41 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | sm: what do you mean with "more precisely searchable"? |
| 2021-10-01 19:21:30 +0200 | <sm> | when you search, it'll show just matching lines (a few at a time) which you can click on to get back to that point in history |
| 2021-10-01 19:22:00 +0200 | <sm> | compared to a google search where you would have got a huge log page |
| 2021-10-01 19:23:06 +0200 | <sm> | ah, but, the logs can be viewed by "Members only (since they joined)", so they are more restricted |
| 2021-10-01 19:23:50 +0200 | <sm> | I'm not sure if that's "since the general matrix IRC bridge went online" or "since this user visited that channel through matrix" |
| 2021-10-01 19:28:19 +0200 | mikoto-chan | (~mikoto-ch@ip-83-134-2-136.dsl.scarlet.be) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2021-10-01 19:29:02 +0200 | Tom[m]1 | (~tomtomsme@2001:470:69fc:105::1:95a) |
| 2021-10-01 19:30:37 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | presumably those matrix logs are also more reliable / with less breaks than my logs :p |
| 2021-10-01 19:30:59 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | assuming that they manage server updates better than "sorry no logs while restarting" |
| 2021-10-01 19:32:36 +0200 | <sm> | yes I would think so. It's hard to get a copy of the whole thing, but I think it's just that the current clients haven't implemented it |
| 2021-10-01 19:32:44 +0200 | eggplantade | (~Eggplanta@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:75c8:94d0:d9df:71f1) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2021-10-01 19:33:38 +0200 | Tom[m]1 | (~tomtomsme@2001:470:69fc:105::1:95a) () |
| 2021-10-01 19:34:11 +0200 | tomsmeding[m] | (~tomsmedin@2001:470:69fc:105::1:95c) |
| 2021-10-01 19:34:40 +0200 | <tomsmeding[m]> | sm: speaking from matrix here, seems I can't see anything before my matrix user joined just now |
| 2021-10-01 19:34:47 +0200 | <sm> | ah, thanks for testing. Bummer |
| 2021-10-01 19:34:57 +0200 | tomsmeding[m] | (~tomsmedin@2001:470:69fc:105::1:95c) () |
| 2021-10-01 19:35:10 +0200 | <sm> | tomsmeding I forgot your logs exist and are in the topic, so what are we talking about again ? Ah I guess geekosaur fixed an obsolete reference to tunes |
| 2021-10-01 19:35:20 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | yes :) |
| 2021-10-01 19:35:43 +0200 | <sm> | 👍️ |
| 2021-10-01 19:36:35 +0200 | aegon | (~mike@174.127.249.180) |
| 2021-10-01 19:38:02 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | (I first joined with my conduit account, then realised that's not a good test because conduit doesn't fetch history before you joined anyway) |
| 2021-10-01 19:42:37 +0200 | hyiltiz | (~quassel@31.220.5.250) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2021-10-01 19:43:00 +0200 | goepsilongo | (~chacho@2603-7000-ab00-62ed-0000-0000-0000-0bd0.res6.spectrum.com) (Quit: Konversation terminated!) |
| 2021-10-01 19:43:38 +0200 | MQ-17J | (~MQ-17J@2607:fb90:8848:a516:92d8:c446:e2f1:d98e) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2021-10-01 19:44:44 +0200 | MQ-17J | (~MQ-17J@d192-24-122-179.try.wideopenwest.com) |
| 2021-10-01 19:46:10 +0200 | fendor | (~fendor@178.115.78.156.wireless.dyn.drei.com) |
| 2021-10-01 19:46:40 +0200 | fendor | (~fendor@178.115.78.156.wireless.dyn.drei.com) (Client Quit) |
| 2021-10-01 19:46:40 +0200 | hyiltiz | (~quassel@31.220.5.250) |
| 2021-10-01 19:46:46 +0200 | doyougnu | (~user@c-73-25-202-122.hsd1.or.comcast.net) |
| 2021-10-01 19:48:04 +0200 | ec | (~ec@gateway/tor-sasl/ec) |
| 2021-10-01 19:48:42 +0200 | Vaishnavi | (~Vaishnavi@122.174.107.64) |
| 2021-10-01 19:48:46 +0200 | <Fusion86> | Good evening all, for a school course I need to create a small game. For this game I tried to create a small function which tries to load all assets inside a given directory, and inserts them into a Map. After an embarrassingly long time I finally got something which works, but I feel like it isn't the best solution (by far). If anyone could take a quick look at it and give some feedback it would be greatly appreciated :) |
| 2021-10-01 19:48:47 +0200 | <Fusion86> | https://paste.tomsmeding.com/OZqNlWtE |
| 2021-10-01 19:49:27 +0200 | Vaishnavi | (~Vaishnavi@122.174.107.64) () |
| 2021-10-01 19:50:03 +0200 | <Fusion86> | I implemented it using both foldr and map, but both of them have some quirks (notably the 'abuse?' of the return thingy) |
| 2021-10-01 19:50:33 +0200 | <Fusion86> | When it can't load a given file (using loadJuicyPNG) it should just ignore it and not add it to the map. |
| 2021-10-01 19:51:19 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | Fusion86: try using foldM instead of foldr |
| 2021-10-01 19:51:34 +0200 | <opqdonut> | Fusion86: I think the mapM solution is pretty nice |
| 2021-10-01 19:52:02 +0200 | <awpr> | second version looks pretty good to me. I don't see any problem with the 'returns' in either solution. you could hoist them outside of the `case`, though, if you want fewer of them |
| 2021-10-01 19:52:03 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | hm ah yes that one is nicer |
| 2021-10-01 19:52:11 +0200 | dajoer | (~david@user/gvx) (Quit: leaving) |
| 2021-10-01 19:52:34 +0200 | <awpr> | the foldr one is a bit weird in that it loads the rest of the images twice if loading the present image fails |
| 2021-10-01 19:52:43 +0200 | <awpr> | in that sense it needs _more_ returns :) |
| 2021-10-01 19:52:49 +0200 | eggplantade | (~Eggplanta@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:f920:a9dd:18bc:fca2) |
| 2021-10-01 19:52:57 +0200 | <opqdonut> | Fusion86: you could simplify a bit with something like `loadAsset f = fmap ((,) takeBaseName f) (loadJuicyPNG f)` |
| 2021-10-01 19:53:13 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | loadAsset f = fmap (takeBaseName f,) <$> loadJuicyPNG f |
| 2021-10-01 19:53:14 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | ;) |
| 2021-10-01 19:53:21 +0200 | <opqdonut> | yeah double fmap sorry |
| 2021-10-01 19:53:23 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | understand that first before you use it though |
| 2021-10-01 19:53:35 +0200 | tomsmeding | high-fives opqdonut |
| 2021-10-01 19:53:54 +0200 | <awpr> | (-XTupleSections) |
| 2021-10-01 19:53:55 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | opqdonut: also some parens around (takeBaseName f) |
| 2021-10-01 19:54:06 +0200 | <opqdonut> | for sure |
| 2021-10-01 19:54:21 +0200 | <opqdonut> | Fusion86: I'd only go with the foldM solution if I needed to stop loading at the first failure or something |
| 2021-10-01 19:54:34 +0200 | <opqdonut> | otherwise mapM is the right pattern: you want to do the same thing for every file (and then combine the results) |
| 2021-10-01 19:57:05 +0200 | <Fusion86> | Are both solutions not equal? I assumed that loadAssetsFoldr does exactly the same as loadAssets? |
| 2021-10-01 19:57:05 +0200 | MQ-17J | (~MQ-17J@d192-24-122-179.try.wideopenwest.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2021-10-01 19:57:15 +0200 | <Fusion86> | If not, then I don't fully understand either fold or return |
| 2021-10-01 19:57:16 +0200 | sebeko | (~xsebek@176.74.150.21) |
| 2021-10-01 19:57:19 +0200 | CiaoSen | (~Jura@p5dcc151c.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2021-10-01 19:57:37 +0200 | MQ-17J | (~MQ-17J@d192-24-122-179.try.wideopenwest.com) |
| 2021-10-01 19:57:43 +0200 | <awpr> | they're almost the same, except in how they work when loading a file fails |
| 2021-10-01 19:58:45 +0200 | <awpr> | `a` is "try loading the rest of the files after this one"; you run it once first, then load the present file, and if it succeeds, combine the results and finish, but if it fails, then you re-run `a` |
| 2021-10-01 20:00:07 +0200 | <awpr> | `return` is just "promote a value to a no-op IO action" |
| 2021-10-01 20:00:11 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | (the more intuitive fold here is probably foldM) |
| 2021-10-01 20:01:10 +0200 | <Fusion86> | Hmm, I don't really understand it yet, but I'll make a note of it and come back to this snippet once I actually understand what Monads/IOs are. |
| 2021-10-01 20:01:32 +0200 | <Fusion86> | Thanks for the help :) |
| 2021-10-01 20:01:53 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) |
| 2021-10-01 20:02:49 +0200 | mikoto-chan | (~mikoto-ch@83.137.2.243) |
| 2021-10-01 20:05:35 +0200 | wootehfoot | (~wootehfoo@user/wootehfoot) |
| 2021-10-01 20:07:25 +0200 | jess | (~jess@libera/staff/jess) (Quit: Lost terminal) |
| 2021-10-01 20:15:10 +0200 | tromp | (~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) |
| 2021-10-01 20:16:18 +0200 | f-a | (f2a@f2a.jujube.ircnow.org) |
| 2021-10-01 20:16:27 +0200 | nf | nfernal |
| 2021-10-01 20:19:26 +0200 | cheater | (~Username@user/cheater) |
| 2021-10-01 20:22:50 +0200 | jess | (~jess@libera/staff/jess) |
| 2021-10-01 20:24:44 +0200 | glguy | ghoulguy |
| 2021-10-01 20:25:31 +0200 | sy4 | (~sy4@user/sy4) |
| 2021-10-01 20:28:29 +0200 | tromp | (~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl) |
| 2021-10-01 20:29:53 +0200 | <janus> | how does haskell treat types that are re-exported? let's say i have a custom prelude that reexports Functor from base, that would be fine. but what if I had a separate functor definition? i suspect it would be super inconvenient to use, but why exactly? |
| 2021-10-01 20:30:16 +0200 | f-a | (f2a@f2a.jujube.ircnow.org) () |
| 2021-10-01 20:30:29 +0200 | <janus> | so is it possible to make a prelude with Monad without fail, and have it work on e.g. ghc 8.6? |
| 2021-10-01 20:30:53 +0200 | wroathe | (~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) |
| 2021-10-01 20:30:53 +0200 | wroathe | (~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) (Changing host) |
| 2021-10-01 20:30:53 +0200 | wroathe | (~wroathe@user/wroathe) |
| 2021-10-01 20:31:23 +0200 | max22- | (~maxime@2a01cb0883359800cfca41976f0516e3.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2021-10-01 20:32:53 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | janus: existing packages will refer to the existing types |
| 2021-10-01 20:33:34 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | re-exporting types exports the _same_ types (same internal identity); if you export your own thing called "Functor", it happens to have the same unqualified name but it's a different thing |
| 2021-10-01 20:35:43 +0200 | <monochrom> | My http://www.vex.net/~trebla/haskell/module.xhtml#terminology may help. |
| 2021-10-01 20:35:50 +0200 | <janus> | tomsmeding: so basically, all preludes will depend on Monad having fail if they run on 8.6, because Monad is tied to do notation and therefore can't be re-defined? |
| 2021-10-01 20:36:26 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | janus: what do-notation refers to is a whole different question again :) |
| 2021-10-01 20:36:56 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | that does indeed refer to the built-in Monad type, unless you use QualifiedDo or OverloadedSyntax; not sure how early those extensions are available |
| 2021-10-01 20:37:25 +0200 | <janus> | but the assertion is still correct, i think. preludes can't attempt to backport the final stage of the MonadFail transition strategy to 8.6 |
| 2021-10-01 20:37:51 +0200 | <geekosaur> | OverloadedSyntax goes back a good ways; QualifiedDo is new in 9.x iirc |
| 2021-10-01 20:38:26 +0200 | <geekosaur> | that said what exactly is covered by OverloadedSyntax has changed a few times |
| 2021-10-01 20:40:04 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | janus: pretty sure generation of 'fail' upon pattern match failure in 'do' is built into the compiler |
| 2021-10-01 20:40:24 +0200 | tromp | (~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) |
| 2021-10-01 20:40:25 +0200 | <geekosaur> | yes |
| 2021-10-01 20:41:03 +0200 | <geekosaur> | OverloadedSyntax or QualifiedDo can change which definition of fail is used, but generation of it is wired in and unchangeable |
| 2021-10-01 20:41:15 +0200 | <janus> | what does an incomplete pattern match do after completion of the MonadFail strategy? it just calls 'error' instead of 'fail'? |
| 2021-10-01 20:41:37 +0200 | <geekosaur> | it incurs a MonadFail constraint, which brings along a definition of fail |
| 2021-10-01 20:41:57 +0200 | <janus> | aah ok, i wouldn't know because we disallow incomplete pat matches... |
| 2021-10-01 20:41:59 +0200 | <geekosaur> | you can think of MonadFail as extending Monad |
| 2021-10-01 20:42:10 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | @type do { Just _ <- undefined ; return () } |
| 2021-10-01 20:42:11 +0200 | <lambdabot> | MonadFail m => m () |
| 2021-10-01 20:42:25 +0200 | <Fusion86> | I currently use "stack build --file-watch" to watch&build my stack project, however the linking step takes pretty long (~10 sec). Is there a way to speed this up? |
| 2021-10-01 20:42:26 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | @type do { _ <- undefined ; return () } |
| 2021-10-01 20:42:27 +0200 | <lambdabot> | Monad m => m () |
| 2021-10-01 20:43:17 +0200 | <janus> | i hadn't realized this... incomplete pattern matches could result in shorter programs that are still safe :O but while it is still in Monad, i guess it is too dangerous? |
| 2021-10-01 20:43:51 +0200 | <sm> | Fusion86: adding --fast can speed up the compilation but not the linking unfortunately |
| 2021-10-01 20:43:54 +0200 | <sm> | consider using ghcid instead, which avoids linking |
| 2021-10-01 20:43:55 +0200 | <geekosaur> | are you prepared to handle `fail`? |
| 2021-10-01 20:44:20 +0200 | <geekosaur> | (note that what `fail` does depends on the monad) |
| 2021-10-01 20:44:29 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | Fusion86: windows-only issue, but that doesn't help you; don't know if it can be solved if you need the executable |
| 2021-10-01 20:44:32 +0200 | <sm> | Fusion86: also no need to feel embarassed, haskell has that same effect on many of us... |
| 2021-10-01 20:44:33 +0200 | <janus> | well how can't i be (post MFP)? i would have implemented fail myself |
| 2021-10-01 20:44:55 +0200 | <janus> | i guess the disadvantage is that many people just write "fail = error", probably IO does that? |
| 2021-10-01 20:45:00 +0200 | <geekosaur> | you had to be before MFP as well, it's just that `fail` was part of Monad |
| 2021-10-01 20:45:23 +0200 | <geekosaur> | IO does throwIO so it's synchronous, but it amounts to the same thing |
| 2021-10-01 20:45:36 +0200 | <geekosaur> | but in Maybe it's Nothing and in list it's [] |
| 2021-10-01 20:45:51 +0200 | <janus> | but pre-MFP people didn't have an option not to implement fail, they were kinda forced to do lazy impls like fail=error |
| 2021-10-01 20:46:13 +0200 | <Fusion86> | If it is indeed a windows only issue then I'll just use my linux laptop instead of my desktop next time. |
| 2021-10-01 20:46:15 +0200 | fef | (~thedawn@user/thedawn) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2021-10-01 20:46:59 +0200 | <janus> | if there was only a way to ensure i wasn't using code that does 'fail = error' i would be much more comfy with incomplete pat matches |
| 2021-10-01 20:47:35 +0200 | <geekosaur> | there isn't one currently, you can't inspect how fail behaves in the current monad |
| 2021-10-01 20:49:29 +0200 | tromp | (~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl) |
| 2021-10-01 20:49:51 +0200 | Tuplanolla | (~Tuplanoll@91-159-69-50.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
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| 2021-10-01 20:54:20 +0200 | max22- | (~maxime@2a01cb088335980098b0bbe63a5a4455.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2021-10-01 20:56:49 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) |
| 2021-10-01 20:58:53 +0200 | lavaman | (~lavaman@98.38.249.169) |
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| 2021-10-01 21:01:49 +0200 | Gurkenglas | (~Gurkengla@dslb-002-203-144-204.002.203.pools.vodafone-ip.de) |
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| 2021-10-01 21:05:09 +0200 | ryantrinkle | (~ryan@50.239.20.147) |
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| 2021-10-01 21:06:56 +0200 | lavaman | (~lavaman@98.38.249.169) |
| 2021-10-01 21:07:00 +0200 | tromp | (~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) |
| 2021-10-01 21:07:23 +0200 | michalz | (~michalz@185.246.204.77) |
| 2021-10-01 21:07:57 +0200 | michalz | (~michalz@185.246.204.77) (Remote host closed the connection) |
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| 2021-10-01 21:10:55 +0200 | ezzieygu1wuf | ezzieyguywuf |
| 2021-10-01 21:11:51 +0200 | DNH | (~DNH@2a02:8108:1100:16d8:4c54:3aa3:ad7c:33c2) |
| 2021-10-01 21:13:28 +0200 | mikoto-chan | (~mikoto-ch@83.137.2.243) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) |
| 2021-10-01 21:15:13 +0200 | mikoto-chan | (~mikoto-ch@83.137.2.243) |
| 2021-10-01 21:15:38 +0200 | slep | (~slep@cpc150002-brnt4-2-0-cust437.4-2.cable.virginm.net) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2021-10-01 21:19:17 +0200 | eggplantade | (~Eggplanta@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:75c8:94d0:d9df:71f1) |
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| 2021-10-01 21:22:23 +0200 | slep | (~slep@cpc150002-brnt4-2-0-cust437.4-2.cable.virginm.net) (Client Quit) |
| 2021-10-01 21:24:08 +0200 | slep | (~slep@cpc150002-brnt4-2-0-cust437.4-2.cable.virginm.net) |
| 2021-10-01 21:27:29 +0200 | lavaman | (~lavaman@98.38.249.169) |
| 2021-10-01 21:28:33 +0200 | lechner | (~lechner@debian/lechner) |
| 2021-10-01 21:32:12 +0200 | Fusion86 | (~Fusion@80-60-181-180.fixed.kpn.net) (Quit: Leaving) |
| 2021-10-01 21:35:08 +0200 | mikoto-chan | (~mikoto-ch@83.137.2.243) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2021-10-01 21:37:14 +0200 | DNH | (~DNH@2a02:8108:1100:16d8:4c54:3aa3:ad7c:33c2) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) |
| 2021-10-01 21:37:17 +0200 | tromp | (~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) |
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| 2021-10-01 21:42:45 +0200 | sebeko | (~xsebek@176.74.150.21) (Quit: sebeko) |
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| 2021-10-01 21:44:26 +0200 | Lorra | (~lorenzo@aftr-62-216-215-27.dynamic.mnet-online.de) (Quit: Konversation terminated!) |
| 2021-10-01 21:46:49 +0200 | MQ-17J | (~MQ-17J@d192-24-122-179.try.wideopenwest.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2021-10-01 21:47:16 +0200 | koala_man | (~vidar@157.146.251.23.bc.googleusercontent.com) |
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| 2021-10-01 21:49:23 +0200 | NinjaTrappeur | (~ninja@user/ninjatrappeur) |
| 2021-10-01 21:49:36 +0200 | sebeko | (~xsebek@176.74.150.21) (Client Quit) |
| 2021-10-01 21:51:55 +0200 | MQ-17J | (~MQ-17J@d192-24-122-179.try.wideopenwest.com) |
| 2021-10-01 21:55:14 +0200 | _xor | (~xor@74.215.232.67) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2021-10-01 21:55:36 +0200 | _xor | (~xor@74.215.232.67) |
| 2021-10-01 21:59:09 +0200 | <hololeap> | foo f (T1 (T2 x)) (T1 (T2 y)) = T1 (T2 (f x y)) |
| 2021-10-01 21:59:31 +0200 | <hololeap> | is there a way to write this with lenses, assuming we have lenses for T1 and T2? |
| 2021-10-01 22:02:00 +0200 | <c_wraith> | that doesn't look especially lensy |
| 2021-10-01 22:02:12 +0200 | <c_wraith> | it's much more liftA2-y |
| 2021-10-01 22:02:43 +0200 | wroathe | (~wroathe@user/wroathe) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2021-10-01 22:03:26 +0200 | <hololeap> | % :t over |
| 2021-10-01 22:03:27 +0200 | <yahb> | hololeap: ASetter s t a b -> (a -> b) -> s -> t |
| 2021-10-01 22:03:46 +0200 | <c_wraith> | yeah, that doesn't fit especially well into the lens paradigm because lens is intended to work with arbitrary products |
| 2021-10-01 22:03:46 +0200 | <awpr> | if they're newtypes, `coerce f`? |
| 2021-10-01 22:05:31 +0200 | juhp | (~juhp@128.106.188.220) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2021-10-01 22:05:38 +0200 | <c_wraith> | Like.. a lens-based solution would need a generalized way to handle when T1 and T2 have multiple arguments |
| 2021-10-01 22:05:50 +0200 | <c_wraith> | and there's no general way to handle that |
| 2021-10-01 22:06:49 +0200 | tromp | (~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) |
| 2021-10-01 22:08:45 +0200 | <hololeap> | this is what I'm working on, and it would be nice to reduce the clutter: http://sprunge.us/bGDMtW |
| 2021-10-01 22:09:43 +0200 | <c_wraith> | is Children a type alias for Identity? |
| 2021-10-01 22:10:17 +0200 | juhp | (~juhp@128.106.188.220) |
| 2021-10-01 22:10:20 +0200 | acidjnk_new | (~acidjnk@p200300d0c703cb709cd806e9bafd3ecc.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 2021-10-01 22:10:20 +0200 | acidjnk_new3 | (~acidjnk@p200300d0c703cb709cd806e9bafd3ecc.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 2021-10-01 22:10:28 +0200 | <awpr> | looks like Cofree is an alias for CofreeT Identity |
| 2021-10-01 22:10:30 +0200 | <hololeap> | (obviously there are some typos in that...) |
| 2021-10-01 22:10:43 +0200 | <hololeap> | I'm using the Cofree from Control.Comonad.Trans.Cofree |
| 2021-10-01 22:11:36 +0200 | <c_wraith> | It looks to me like you should implement Applicative and then that's liftA2 (<>) |
| 2021-10-01 22:11:54 +0200 | <mrianbloom> | What is a fast, safe way to get a Bytestring (encoding 32bit floats) into an accelerate host array. Currently I'm using genericGetVectorWith from Data.Vector.Binary. Transferring the pointer from those vectors to the array works initially but it also freed the pointer when haskell garbage collected the vector and created a dangling pointer. |
| 2021-10-01 22:13:21 +0200 | Morrow | (~Morrow@bzq-110-168-31-106.red.bezeqint.net) |
| 2021-10-01 22:16:49 +0200 | tromp | (~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl) |
| 2021-10-01 22:18:00 +0200 | Partmedia2 | Partmedia |
| 2021-10-01 22:19:17 +0200 | _ht | (~quassel@82-169-194-8.biz.kpn.net) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2021-10-01 22:19:49 +0200 | wroathe | (~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) |
| 2021-10-01 22:19:49 +0200 | wroathe | (~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) (Changing host) |
| 2021-10-01 22:19:49 +0200 | wroathe | (~wroathe@user/wroathe) |
| 2021-10-01 22:20:13 +0200 | <hololeap> | a bunch of `coerce` seems to work |
| 2021-10-01 22:24:17 +0200 | hyiltiz | (~quassel@31.220.5.250) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2021-10-01 22:24:43 +0200 | wroathe | (~wroathe@user/wroathe) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2021-10-01 22:26:41 +0200 | takuan | (~takuan@178-116-218-225.access.telenet.be) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2021-10-01 22:29:47 +0200 | Null_A | (~null_a@2601:645:8700:2290:e9de:2461:c7b1:d42b) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2021-10-01 22:33:31 +0200 | benin0369323016 | (~benin@183.82.177.177) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2021-10-01 22:34:03 +0200 | tromp | (~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) |
| 2021-10-01 22:35:34 +0200 | Null_A | (~null_a@2601:645:8700:2290:e9de:2461:c7b1:d42b) |
| 2021-10-01 22:35:42 +0200 | ec | (~ec@gateway/tor-sasl/ec) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2021-10-01 22:40:13 +0200 | eggplantade | (~Eggplanta@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:75c8:94d0:d9df:71f1) |
| 2021-10-01 22:44:23 +0200 | eggplantade | (~Eggplanta@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:75c8:94d0:d9df:71f1) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2021-10-01 22:48:14 +0200 | Pickchea | (~private@user/pickchea) |
| 2021-10-01 22:48:38 +0200 | <janus> | i wonder why there is no "instance Coercible a b, Coercible b c => Coercible a c" |
| 2021-10-01 22:49:23 +0200 | dsal_ | dsal |
| 2021-10-01 22:49:30 +0200 | <awpr> | Coercible doesn't "have" instances, GHC just fabricates them as needed |
| 2021-10-01 22:50:20 +0200 | <awpr> | and unless I'm mistaken, GHC should be willing to fabricate that one. but I guess I should double-check |
| 2021-10-01 22:50:31 +0200 | eggplantade | (~Eggplanta@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:75c8:94d0:d9df:71f1) |
| 2021-10-01 22:52:14 +0200 | <awpr> | yep, it will |
| 2021-10-01 22:52:29 +0200 | <janus> | oh, but then why did hololeap write 'a bunch of coerce'? |
| 2021-10-01 22:52:55 +0200 | ph88 | (~ph88@ip5f5af6fd.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2021-10-01 22:52:56 +0200 | MQ-17J | (~MQ-17J@d192-24-122-179.try.wideopenwest.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2021-10-01 22:53:09 +0200 | <awpr> | probably because type inference difficulties sometimes make something like `coerce . f . coerce` work more easily than `coerce f` |
| 2021-10-01 22:53:15 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) |
| 2021-10-01 22:54:00 +0200 | <janus> | what is a common example of a Coercible instance from base? |
| 2021-10-01 22:54:18 +0200 | MQ-17J | (~MQ-17J@d192-24-122-179.try.wideopenwest.com) |
| 2021-10-01 22:54:29 +0200 | <monochrom> | I don't think coerce is happy with converting f in the first place. |
| 2021-10-01 22:55:17 +0200 | emf | (~emf@2620:10d:c090:400::5:113f) (Quit: emf) |
| 2021-10-01 22:55:24 +0200 | <awpr> | any newtype is coercible to its underlying type and vice versa, e.g. `Coercible a (Const a b)` |
| 2021-10-01 22:56:10 +0200 | <monochrom> | On second thought, any elaborate on why I said that will go back to what awpr said about type inference difficulties. :) |
| 2021-10-01 22:56:53 +0200 | <awpr> | yeah, the situation is roughly that if you try to coerce something polymorphic, you might think it's obvious what it should be instantiated with, but GHC can't figure it out |
| 2021-10-01 22:58:22 +0200 | <awpr> | since `coerce` is like, extremely over-polymorphic, to the extent that it totally prevents any type inference information from passing through it |
| 2021-10-01 23:00:12 +0200 | <awpr> | actually, it seems like maybe instances for nominal roles could look like `a ~ b => Coercible (f a) (f b)`, which would let some information through. not sure whether it behaves that way in practice |
| 2021-10-01 23:02:35 +0200 | emf | (~emf@163.114.132.1) |
| 2021-10-01 23:02:35 +0200 | MQ-17J | (~MQ-17J@d192-24-122-179.try.wideopenwest.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2021-10-01 23:02:53 +0200 | MQ-17J | (~MQ-17J@d192-24-122-179.try.wideopenwest.com) |
| 2021-10-01 23:04:25 +0200 | wroathe | (~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) |
| 2021-10-01 23:04:25 +0200 | wroathe | (~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) (Changing host) |
| 2021-10-01 23:04:25 +0200 | wroathe | (~wroathe@user/wroathe) |
| 2021-10-01 23:05:09 +0200 | hyiltiz | (~quassel@31.220.5.250) |
| 2021-10-01 23:09:36 +0200 | <awpr> | awesome, it actually does. TIL. |
| 2021-10-01 23:11:24 +0200 | <awpr> | https://paste.tomsmeding.com/vWYZMAtg demonstrates it: the instance of `HasThing` can only be selected because `Thing` has a nominal role |
| 2021-10-01 23:14:00 +0200 | _xor | (~xor@74.215.232.67) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2021-10-01 23:14:22 +0200 | nfd | (~nfd@user/nfd) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
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| 2021-10-01 23:14:54 +0200 | Lord_of_Life_ | (~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915) |
| 2021-10-01 23:15:59 +0200 | Lord_of_Life | (~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2021-10-01 23:16:12 +0200 | Lord_of_Life_ | Lord_of_Life |
| 2021-10-01 23:17:02 +0200 | lavaman | (~lavaman@98.38.249.169) |
| 2021-10-01 23:17:54 +0200 | _xor | (~xor@74.215.232.67) |
| 2021-10-01 23:17:57 +0200 | yinghua | (~yinghua@181.228.40.183) |
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| 2021-10-01 23:24:41 +0200 | Lycurgus | (~juan@98.4.112.204) |
| 2021-10-01 23:26:04 +0200 | gehmehgeh | (~user@user/gehmehgeh) (Quit: Leaving) |
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| 2021-10-01 23:27:57 +0200 | Null_A | (~null_a@2601:645:8700:2290:e9de:2461:c7b1:d42b) |
| 2021-10-01 23:27:58 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
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| 2021-10-01 23:31:15 +0200 | ph88 | (~ph88@ip5f5af6fd.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) |
| 2021-10-01 23:31:19 +0200 | wroathe | (~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) |
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| 2021-10-01 23:31:19 +0200 | wroathe | (~wroathe@user/wroathe) |
| 2021-10-01 23:31:49 +0200 | lavaman | (~lavaman@98.38.249.169) |
| 2021-10-01 23:35:40 +0200 | wroathe | (~wroathe@user/wroathe) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2021-10-01 23:36:59 +0200 | shailangsa_ | (~shailangs@host217-39-45-200.range217-39.btcentralplus.com) () |
| 2021-10-01 23:46:22 +0200 | Null_A | (~null_a@2601:645:8700:2290:e9de:2461:c7b1:d42b) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2021-10-01 23:49:23 +0200 | zzz | zero |
| 2021-10-01 23:51:08 +0200 | zero | (~yin@user/yin) (Changing host) |
| 2021-10-01 23:51:08 +0200 | zero | (~yin@user/zero) |
| 2021-10-01 23:52:36 +0200 | nfernal | nf |
| 2021-10-01 23:54:37 +0200 | jaitoon1 | (~Jaitoon@2a02:c7f:a5f:1d00:546d:550:f4e1:8ed7) |
| 2021-10-01 23:58:13 +0200 | jaitoon | (~Jaitoon@188.241.156.59) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2021-10-01 23:58:58 +0200 | DNH | (~DNH@2a02:8108:1100:16d8:4c54:3aa3:ad7c:33c2) |