IRCBrowse

2021/09/12

2021-09-12 00:05:18 +0000catern(~sbaugh@2604:2000:8fc0:b:a9c7:866a:bf36:3407)
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2021-09-12 00:26:02 +0000 <zzz> what's a good resource for someone to start exploring working with bits in haskell?
2021-09-12 00:26:51 +0000 <zzz> like arbitrarily sized sequences of bits and so on
2021-09-12 00:30:11 +0000 <zzz> i'm assuming there are better alternatives to [Bool]
2021-09-12 00:32:42 +0000 <dsal> Any particular bit you'd like to work with?
2021-09-12 00:32:54 +0000favonia(~favonia@user/favonia)
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2021-09-12 00:34:36 +0000 <dsal> I've worked with a combination of attoparsec and binary in a project a few years go which was reading some data out of one of my RC battery chargers.
2021-09-12 00:34:53 +0000Digit(~user@user/digit)
2021-09-12 00:34:55 +0000 <dsal> Actually, no attoparsec here. I use that in a different protocol.
2021-09-12 00:34:56 +0000 <geekosaur> iirc Data.Vector.Unboxed of Bool packs the bits
2021-09-12 00:35:21 +0000 <geekosaur> but it won't be ideal for bit operations like and/or
2021-09-12 00:35:37 +0000 <geekosaur> see Data.Bits for that
2021-09-12 00:38:56 +0000 <zzz> i actually want to do things like manipulating a list of WordX and a list of WordY and then comparing them, where X and Y are arbitrary
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2021-09-12 01:45:40 +0000[_][itchyjunk]
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2021-09-12 02:33:30 +0000normsaa(~normsaa@101.175.64.73)
2021-09-12 02:33:43 +0000 <Cajun> could probably use some sort of type level Natural for that
2021-09-12 02:33:54 +0000 <Cajun> sounds like an interesting library/exercise idea
2021-09-12 02:38:00 +0000lavaman(~lavaman@98.38.249.169)
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2021-09-12 02:47:04 +0000proofofkeags(~proofofke@97-118-134-2.hlrn.qwest.net)
2021-09-12 02:48:26 +0000 <Boarders> is it possible to write a type family in Haskell that goes like '[] |-> (# #), '[Int] |-> (# Int #), '[Int, Int] |-> (# Int, Int #) etc.
2021-09-12 02:48:57 +0000 <Boarders> I think the kind sig would be something like: type Unbox :: [Type] -> (forall ks . TYPE (TupleRep ks)
2021-09-12 02:48:59 +0000 <Boarders> but that is not working
2021-09-12 02:50:46 +0000 <Boarders> geekosaur: Data.Vector.Unboxed doesn't pack the bits: https://hackage.haskell.org/package/vector-0.12.3.0/docs/src/Data.Vector.Unboxed.Base.html#line-338
2021-09-12 02:50:54 +0000 <Boarders> It converts back and forth to a Word8
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2021-09-12 03:12:38 +0000 <ldlework> Trying to implement Maybe Monoid instance, and it's not working
2021-09-12 03:12:39 +0000 <ldlework> https://gist.github.com/dustinlacewell/7c00fe33d757ffa447228707836e9b90
2021-09-12 03:12:42 +0000 <ldlework> Where have I gone wrong?
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2021-09-12 03:38:10 +0000 <Cajun> Idlework: in modern versions of haskell, you must define semigroups, which are like what you are trying to do but instead define the operator (<>). (<>) is mappend
2021-09-12 03:38:26 +0000 <Cajun> mappend still exists but for backwards compatibility as far as i know
2021-09-12 03:38:56 +0000 <Cajun> monoids are semigroups but with an empty/unit representation
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2021-09-12 04:51:43 +0000_alexm_(~alexm_@161.8.253.213)
2021-09-12 04:59:35 +0000 <_alexm_> hi, I'm trying to build intuition around covariance and contravariance, in the fpcomplete article on that topic there is an exercise asking to determine whether a certain data type is covariant or contravariant. E.g. for the newtype E6 a = E6 ((() -> a -> a) -> ()) I've come up with contramap f (E6 g) = E6 (\cb -> g $ \h -> flip const $ f . (cb h))
2021-09-12 04:59:59 +0000 <_alexm_> but I'm having problems with newtype E7 a = E7 ((() -> () -> a) -> a)
2021-09-12 05:00:34 +0000 <_alexm_> is this type neither covariant nor contravariant, hence, invariant?
2021-09-12 05:05:21 +0000lavaman(~lavaman@98.38.249.169)
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2021-09-12 05:14:09 +0000amitnjha(~amit@024-216-124-116.res.spectrum.com)
2021-09-12 05:15:55 +0000 <mniip> _alexm_, your contramap for E6 is not functorial
2021-09-12 05:16:02 +0000 <mniip> (contramap id != id)
2021-09-12 05:18:04 +0000Cajun(~Cajun@user/cajun)
2021-09-12 05:22:27 +0000 <_alexm_> mniip, any clues on how I can make a lawful instance?
2021-09-12 05:23:04 +0000 <mniip> you can't
2021-09-12 05:23:07 +0000 <mniip> but that would be a clue
2021-09-12 05:24:47 +0000 <_alexm_> is it invariant then, because the type parameter is both negative and positive?
2021-09-12 05:24:52 +0000 <mniip> yes
2021-09-12 05:25:05 +0000 <_alexm_> and the same applies to E7
2021-09-12 05:25:12 +0000 <mniip> yes
2021-09-12 05:29:25 +0000 <_alexm_> and this one: newtype E9 a = E9 ((() -> () -> ()) -> ()) must be bivariant because the data type is phantom?
2021-09-12 05:33:29 +0000AndrewYuxeroxIRC
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2021-09-12 05:34:00 +0000Guest591AndrewIRC
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2021-09-12 06:00:57 +0000 <mniip> yes
2021-09-12 06:15:38 +0000Neuromancer(~Neuromanc@user/neuromancer) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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2021-09-12 06:21:10 +0000 <_alexm_> mniip, thanks!
2021-09-12 06:27:13 +0000 <Axman6> Boarders: Can you do something like type family Unbox (ks :: [Type]] where Unbox ks = TYPE (TupleRep ks) seems close to what you had but not quite the same?
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2021-09-12 07:21:40 +0000 <ldlework> Cajun: when I change `mappend` to `(<>)` it says ‘<>’ is not a (visible) method of class ‘Monoid’
2021-09-12 07:22:00 +0000 <Cajun> define (<>) in a Semigroup instance
2021-09-12 07:22:21 +0000 <Cajun> monoids are semigroups, and the append operation comes from the Semigroup instance
2021-09-12 07:22:45 +0000 <Cajun> if youre reading an article/textbook and its telling you to just define a monoid with mappend, its because its dated
2021-09-12 07:23:10 +0000 <ldlework> oh so literally implement an instance of Semigroup which is where (<>) is defined?
2021-09-12 07:23:18 +0000 <Cajun> yup!
2021-09-12 07:23:48 +0000 <Cajun> mappend only exists as a legacy function, its unlawful to have its definition be different than the Semigroup definition
2021-09-12 07:23:52 +0000 <ldlework> Cajun: is there some other version of mempty to use too?
2021-09-12 07:24:02 +0000 <Cajun> no
2021-09-12 07:24:08 +0000 <ldlework> okay thanks for the guidance
2021-09-12 07:25:00 +0000 <Cajun> Semigroups are a datatype that can append, but not necessarily have a unit/empty value. monoids can append (because they are instances of Semigroup) and they have an empty/unit value (because thats what it means to be a monoid)
2021-09-12 07:25:26 +0000 <Cajun> semigroups are a typeclass that implements an*
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2021-09-12 07:27:24 +0000 <ldlework> Cajun: is there an interactive site where you can explore these relationships
2021-09-12 07:27:33 +0000jpds(~jpds@gateway/tor-sasl/jpds)
2021-09-12 07:27:50 +0000acidjnk_new(~acidjnk@p200300d0c720301980aba8353aca9eb7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2021-09-12 07:28:04 +0000 <Cajun> you can check the documentation or the wiki but im not sure if there is anything that is interactive
2021-09-12 07:28:07 +0000 <Cajun> https://wiki.haskell.org/Data.Semigroup
2021-09-12 07:28:48 +0000 <ldlework> Ah, I wonder if the network could be extracted systematically from Haskell source
2021-09-12 07:29:20 +0000 <ldlework> Or maybe haskell is powerful enough to introspectively compute it?
2021-09-12 07:29:30 +0000 <Cajun> it would be cool to see a web for that like there are for dependencies
2021-09-12 07:29:38 +0000 <ldlework> yeah!
2021-09-12 07:30:15 +0000 <Cajun> https://wiki.haskell.org/File:Typeclassopedia-diagram.png
2021-09-12 07:30:28 +0000 <ldlework> ah neato
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2021-09-12 07:46:22 +0000 <mjrosenb> so, I have a function that uses the lens function `use`, and now I'm trying to change it to accept `use` as a parameter, but the types are not behaving.
2021-09-12 07:46:30 +0000 <mjrosenb> is it even possible to do this?
2021-09-12 07:48:01 +0000oxide(~lambda@user/oxide) (Quit: oxide)
2021-09-12 07:48:31 +0000 <Cajun> could you give the code excerpts?
2021-09-12 07:48:52 +0000acidjnk_new(~acidjnk@p200300d0c720301980aba8353aca9eb7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-09-12 07:53:09 +0000 <mjrosenb> not really right now, it is buried in like 80 lines of code, and too many constructors. I'll get a small example in the morning.
2021-09-12 07:54:01 +0000wonko(~wjc@62.115.229.50)
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2021-09-12 08:09:07 +0000 <ldlework> Cajun: this image doesn't show magma :P
2021-09-12 08:09:15 +0000hendursaga(~weechat@user/hendursaga) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2021-09-12 08:09:26 +0000 <Cajun> is magma part of base?
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2021-09-12 08:18:01 +0000 <sshine> Cajun, no
2021-09-12 08:18:14 +0000 <Cajun> figured as much :P
2021-09-12 08:18:15 +0000 <sshine> Cajun, only Monoid and Semigroup in that hierarchy
2021-09-12 08:18:42 +0000tzh(~tzh@c-24-21-73-154.hsd1.or.comcast.net) (Quit: zzz)
2021-09-12 08:18:42 +0000Everything(~Everythin@37.115.210.35)
2021-09-12 08:18:49 +0000 <sshine> https://hoogle.haskell.org/?hoogle=Magma :)
2021-09-12 08:19:20 +0000thyriaen(~thyriaen@dynamic-089-012-060-128.89.12.pool.telefonica.de)
2021-09-12 08:19:40 +0000 <sshine> so it's in lens and numhask, it seems.
2021-09-12 08:19:56 +0000ArctVaulMarsHMPJ(~pjetcetal@2.95.102.85)
2021-09-12 08:20:32 +0000 <Cajun> the numhask one seems to be more along the lines of an actual Magma
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2021-09-12 09:11:10 +0000 <ldlework> Prelude> (fmap . fmap) replaceWithP lms
2021-09-12 09:11:12 +0000 <ldlework> [Just 'p',Nothing,Just 'p']
2021-09-12 09:11:14 +0000 <ldlework> my head!
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2021-09-12 10:24:06 +0000[itchyjunk](~itchyjunk@user/itchyjunk/x-7353470)
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2021-09-12 10:43:27 +0000 <ldlework> I'm stuck on a challenge to implement an instance of Functor for `data Pair a = Pair a a` but I can't understand how it could work, because the fmapped result will necessarily be of type `Pair a b` since the fmap first arg is defined as `a -> b`
2021-09-12 10:43:41 +0000 <ldlework> Is it a bug in the challenge or am I missing a concept somewhere
2021-09-12 10:44:39 +0000 <ldlework> instance Functor Pair where fmap f (Pair v1 v2) = Pair v1 (f v2)
2021-09-12 10:44:59 +0000 <ldlework> It complains that the last term (f v2) can't match actual type `b` to expected type `a`
2021-09-12 10:45:11 +0000 <ldlework> Which makes sense because `f` returns `b`
2021-09-12 10:45:18 +0000 <ldlework> As per Functor
2021-09-12 10:46:35 +0000 <ldlework> If I define the type as `type Pair a b = Pair a b` it works, but that's not what the challenge asks for
2021-09-12 10:46:59 +0000 <ldlework> Maybe for `Pair a a` I'm supposed to run `f` over both values
2021-09-12 10:48:25 +0000 <ldlework> Ah yeah that works. That must be what I was missing. It's only for type constructors with two args that you can only map the innermost value
2021-09-12 10:48:54 +0000 <Rembane> ldlework: When you're done with the challenge, take a look at the Functor instance for Either.
2021-09-12 10:49:10 +0000 <ldlework> Rembane: I bet it only maps the Right value
2021-09-12 10:49:17 +0000 <Rembane> ldlework: Bingo!
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2021-09-12 10:58:05 +0000 <ldlework> Oh. Functor for Maybe and Either are helpful for not having to handle the Nothing/Left cases...
2021-09-12 10:58:07 +0000 <ldlework> interesting!
2021-09-12 10:58:25 +0000max22-(~maxime@2a01cb0883359800586692f82479ecdc.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2021-09-12 10:58:57 +0000 <ldlework> Oh wow, I just found https://hackage.haskell.org/package/cml
2021-09-12 10:59:37 +0000Codaraxis_(~Codaraxis@user/codaraxis) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2021-09-12 10:59:45 +0000 <ldlework> that's awesome
2021-09-12 11:00:32 +0000 <ldlework> wait is `fromMaybe` implemented as `fmap id`
2021-09-12 11:01:00 +0000alx741(~alx741@186.178.109.89)
2021-09-12 11:01:03 +0000 <Rembane> :t fmap id
2021-09-12 11:01:04 +0000 <lambdabot> Functor f => f b -> f b
2021-09-12 11:01:08 +0000 <Rembane> :t fromMaybe
2021-09-12 11:01:09 +0000 <lambdabot> a -> Maybe a -> a
2021-09-12 11:01:43 +0000 <Rembane> fmap id seems to be missing something, doesn't it?
2021-09-12 11:01:43 +0000 <ldlework> hmm
2021-09-12 11:02:06 +0000 <ldlework> yeah, it returns the Maybe
2021-09-12 11:02:09 +0000 <ldlework> rather than the inner value
2021-09-12 11:02:18 +0000 <ldlework> So `fmap id` just leaves the Maybe alone
2021-09-12 11:02:20 +0000 <ldlework> makes sense
2021-09-12 11:02:21 +0000 <Rembane> Exactly.
2021-09-12 11:02:27 +0000 <Rembane> Here's the actual implementation: https://hackage.haskell.org/package/base-4.15.0.0/docs/src/Data-Maybe.html#fromMaybe
2021-09-12 11:02:50 +0000 <ldlework> oh right because you give it a default too
2021-09-12 11:02:54 +0000 <Rembane> Yes
2021-09-12 11:03:49 +0000 <ldlework> i like that you can make any function work on any time that implements Functor by composing it with fmap
2021-09-12 11:03:54 +0000 <ldlework> on any type*
2021-09-12 11:04:16 +0000 <ldlework> incMaybe = fmap . (+1)
2021-09-12 11:04:18 +0000 <ldlework> right?
2021-09-12 11:04:22 +0000 <ldlework> or rather
2021-09-12 11:04:29 +0000 <ldlework> incMaybe = fmap (+1)
2021-09-12 11:04:37 +0000 <ldlework> I guess no composition needed, just partial application
2021-09-12 11:05:05 +0000 <ldlework> hmm I guess that would work over any Functor, not just Maybe
2021-09-12 11:05:50 +0000 <ldlework> I guess you'd call it finc :D
2021-09-12 11:06:56 +0000 <Rembane> ^^
2021-09-12 11:07:03 +0000 <Rembane> :t fmap . (+1)
2021-09-12 11:07:04 +0000 <lambdabot> (Functor f, Num (a -> b)) => (a -> b) -> f a -> f b
2021-09-12 11:07:11 +0000 <Rembane> :t fmap (+1)
2021-09-12 11:07:12 +0000 <lambdabot> (Functor f, Num b) => f b -> f b
2021-09-12 11:08:05 +0000 <ldlework> The former would add 1 to the argument, probably a function, and blow up. Or the first argument is a Num, and the addition works, but fails to be passed to fmap as the first arg
2021-09-12 11:08:19 +0000 <Rembane> > (fmap . (+1)) (*2) (Just 7)
2021-09-12 11:08:21 +0000 <lambdabot> error:
2021-09-12 11:08:21 +0000 <lambdabot> • No instance for (Num (Integer -> Integer))
2021-09-12 11:08:21 +0000 <lambdabot> arising from a use of ‘e_1127’
2021-09-12 11:08:25 +0000 <Rembane> Ach! :D
2021-09-12 11:08:59 +0000 <Rembane> Yeah, functions need a Num instance, which they can have, but it makes everything interesting in other ways.
2021-09-12 11:09:08 +0000 <ldlework> whatt
2021-09-12 11:09:10 +0000 <ldlework> lol
2021-09-12 11:09:25 +0000 <ldlework> like using + on functions?
2021-09-12 11:09:52 +0000 <ldlework> I guess it would just be some kind of combination of the functions
2021-09-12 11:10:32 +0000 <ldlework> I guess no different than . as an operator or whatever
2021-09-12 11:10:33 +0000 <Rembane> Yeah, what does f + g mean? :)
2021-09-12 11:10:36 +0000 <ldlework> just a higher order function
2021-09-12 11:10:53 +0000 <ldlework> could mean a number of things I guess
2021-09-12 11:11:03 +0000 <Rembane> It's very much up to you what you choose to model.
2021-09-12 11:11:37 +0000 <ldlework> since `f + g` is really just `(+) f g` and it might as well be `glippityglop f g`
2021-09-12 11:11:42 +0000 <ldlework> aka some random HOF
2021-09-12 11:13:20 +0000hyiltiz(~quassel@31.220.5.250) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-09-12 11:13:43 +0000 <Rembane> Yes!
2021-09-12 11:14:07 +0000 <ldlework> Copilot has learned the Functor laws slightly incorrectly
2021-09-12 11:14:16 +0000 <ldlework> Instead of writing the test
2021-09-12 11:14:17 +0000 <ldlework> -- >>> fmap not . fmap not $ p
2021-09-12 11:14:19 +0000 <ldlework> it writes
2021-09-12 11:14:30 +0000 <ldlework> -- >>> fmap (not . not) . fmap (not . not) $ p
2021-09-12 11:20:46 +0000 <Hecate> haha nice
2021-09-12 11:23:07 +0000hyiltiz(~quassel@31.220.5.250)
2021-09-12 11:24:01 +0000merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
2021-09-12 11:24:18 +0000_xor(~xor@74.215.232.67)
2021-09-12 11:25:39 +0000 <int-e> well it's not wrong?
2021-09-12 11:26:34 +0000kayprish(~kayprish@cable-188-2-153-140.dynamic.sbb.rs) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-09-12 11:26:46 +0000 <[itchyjunk]> wait, what does f + g mean for f,g functions?
2021-09-12 11:26:57 +0000 <int-e> usually \x -> f x + g x
2021-09-12 11:27:15 +0000 <[itchyjunk]> ah
2021-09-12 11:27:24 +0000 <int-e> > (1 + id) 2
2021-09-12 11:27:26 +0000 <lambdabot> error:
2021-09-12 11:27:26 +0000 <lambdabot> • No instance for (Num (Integer -> Integer))
2021-09-12 11:27:26 +0000 <lambdabot> arising from a use of ‘e_112’
2021-09-12 11:27:35 +0000 <int-e> okay. I was wondering about that.
2021-09-12 11:28:05 +0000 <int-e> (lambdabot used to have that instance by default... now it's there intermittently, whenever a fan of that instance defines it)
2021-09-12 11:28:40 +0000 <int-e> With the Num instance, that would evaluate to 3.
2021-09-12 11:28:47 +0000merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-09-12 11:34:43 +0000 <ldlework> [itchyjunk]: but my point was its semantics could be anything
2021-09-12 11:35:18 +0000Everything(~Everythin@37.115.210.35) (Quit: leaving)
2021-09-12 11:36:10 +0000 <[itchyjunk]> sure, the symbol or it's meaning is context dependent
2021-09-12 11:36:45 +0000 <[itchyjunk]> oh so in java, "overloading" is the same as ad hoc polymorphism
2021-09-12 11:36:46 +0000pony(~ed@101.53.218.157) (Quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2021-09-12 11:36:57 +0000 <[itchyjunk]> What's an example (easy) of ad hoc polymorphism in haskell?
2021-09-12 11:37:45 +0000 <[itchyjunk]> hmm i might have to learn a bit more haskell before i ask these questions actually
2021-09-12 11:38:20 +0000 <[itchyjunk]> because idk if + wors for anything other than int.. which i don't think it does?
2021-09-12 11:38:22 +0000 <[itchyjunk]> :t +
2021-09-12 11:38:23 +0000 <lambdabot> error: parse error on input ‘+’
2021-09-12 11:38:31 +0000 <[itchyjunk]> :t (+)
2021-09-12 11:38:32 +0000 <lambdabot> Num a => a -> a -> a
2021-09-12 11:39:12 +0000 <Rembane> > fmap (+1) (Just 7)
2021-09-12 11:39:13 +0000 <lambdabot> Just 8
2021-09-12 11:39:15 +0000 <Rembane> > fmap (+1) (Right 7)
2021-09-12 11:39:17 +0000 <lambdabot> Right 8
2021-09-12 11:39:22 +0000 <Rembane> [itchyjunk]: That one perhaps?
2021-09-12 11:39:47 +0000 <Rembane> [itchyjunk]: We're using the Functor instances for Maybe and Either.
2021-09-12 11:40:27 +0000 <[itchyjunk]> I am trying to remember what a Functor is.. is that a map between categories?
2021-09-12 11:40:39 +0000 <Rembane> :t fmap
2021-09-12 11:40:40 +0000 <lambdabot> Functor f => (a -> b) -> f a -> f b
2021-09-12 11:40:50 +0000 <Rembane> Dunno about that, but the signature is above
2021-09-12 11:43:04 +0000 <[itchyjunk]> i vaguely understand
2021-09-12 11:43:23 +0000 <Rembane> And you can replace f with Maybe and (Either x) to get the specialized type signatures.
2021-09-12 11:46:53 +0000 <[itchyjunk]> yes! this makes sense. ty
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2021-09-12 11:47:52 +0000 <Rembane> No worries. :)
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2021-09-12 11:54:20 +0000 <ldlework> > We come now to Applicative. Applicatives are monoidal functors. No, no, stay with us.
2021-09-12 11:54:21 +0000 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:67: error: parse error on input ‘,’
2021-09-12 11:54:28 +0000 <ldlework> 😩 it's 7AM I think i'll sleep instead
2021-09-12 11:54:31 +0000 <ldlework> heh
2021-09-12 11:57:06 +0000 <ldlework> [itchyjunk]: An instance of Functor for a type `a` "lifts" a function (like (+)) "over the structure" of `a` allowing (+) to work on data within `a`
2021-09-12 11:57:33 +0000 <ldlework> So, a Functor for lists, lets you lift a function over the structure of the list, and apply it to the values in the list
2021-09-12 11:57:55 +0000 <ldlework> A functor for strings, let's you lift a function over the structure of the string, and run the function over the characters inside
2021-09-12 11:58:14 +0000 <ldlework> A functor for Maybe lets you run a function on the value inside the Maybe (if there is one)
2021-09-12 11:58:27 +0000 <ldlework> A functor for Either lets you run a function on the Right value
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2021-09-12 12:54:45 +0000IgnatInsarov[m](~kindaroma@2001:470:69fc:105::f5d9)
2021-09-12 12:55:39 +0000Vajb(~Vajb@n1fdw1j4uyo9saqj8-2.v6.elisa-mobile.fi)
2021-09-12 12:56:44 +0000 <IgnatInsarov[m]> Yo!
2021-09-12 12:56:53 +0000 <IgnatInsarov[m]> I need someone to run my project and see how long it takes with and without this patch. https://github.com/kindaro/paths-in-cube/commit/d79cd4a77f168ab5f5e841c30ade05e51db969f5
2021-09-12 12:57:02 +0000 <IgnatInsarov[m]> It has huge effect on performance on my machine and I want to confirm it somewhere else.
2021-09-12 12:57:16 +0000mikoto-chan(~mikoto-ch@ip-83-134-2-136.dsl.scarlet.be) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-09-12 12:58:06 +0000burnsidesLlama(~burnsides@dhcp168-018.wadham.ox.ac.uk)
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2021-09-12 13:04:37 +0000 <IgnatInsarov[m]> This channel looks unusually dead…
2021-09-12 13:09:28 +0000 <IgnatInsarov[m]> Has the migration from `freenode` taken a toll?
2021-09-12 13:09:44 +0000 <int-e> maybe, but it generally tends to quiet down on weekends too
2021-09-12 13:12:40 +0000martin02(~silas@141.84.69.76) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-09-12 13:14:26 +0000 <yushyin> it is still one of the channels with the most traffic compared to other channels i participate in
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2021-09-12 13:19:39 +0000 <pavonia> IgnatInsarov[m]: trace internally uses unsafePerformIO, so it's likely that the new code evaluates things more often
2021-09-12 13:19:58 +0000 <IgnatInsarov[m]> How so?
2021-09-12 13:20:05 +0000 <pavonia> Btw, don't you want `trace "" $ buildTree (Set.fromList theBox) function` anyway?
2021-09-12 13:20:13 +0000 <pavonia> (note the $)
2021-09-12 13:20:25 +0000 <IgnatInsarov[m]> I want it to run fast.
2021-09-12 13:20:28 +0000 <IgnatInsarov[m]> Did you run it?
2021-09-12 13:20:38 +0000 <IgnatInsarov[m]> Please run it and see how `$` changes things.
2021-09-12 13:20:48 +0000 <IgnatInsarov[m]> I promise you will be amused.
2021-09-12 13:21:02 +0000 <pavonia> Or you tell me which is faster :p
2021-09-12 13:22:12 +0000 <IgnatInsarov[m]> I do not want you to believe me, I want you to see for yourself.
2021-09-12 13:22:21 +0000martin02(~silas@141.84.69.76)
2021-09-12 13:22:32 +0000 <IgnatInsarov[m]> Maybe my measurements are wrong.
2021-09-12 13:23:04 +0000 <pavonia> The thing is, do not rely on code that uses trace, because you might be using it wrong and you might get fast but incorrect results
2021-09-12 13:24:14 +0000 <IgnatInsarov[m]> I should surely like not to rely on it.
2021-09-12 13:25:54 +0000 <pavonia> Though I'm confused why `trace "" buildTree` is faster, evaluating `buildTree` should be a no-op
2021-09-12 13:27:46 +0000 <pavonia> Maybe the problem is related to specialization of types
2021-09-12 13:28:01 +0000 <int-e> IgnatInsarov[m]: try either {-# NOINLINE buildTree #-} or memory = lazy (buildTree (Set.fromList theBox) function) where lazy is from GHC.Exts. There's probably some obscure inlining decisions that GHC takes otherwise that cause the program to recompute the "tree".
2021-09-12 13:28:56 +0000 <IgnatInsarov[m]> Yep I tried `noinline`ing everything, it did not make any difference. Maybe I should try again.
2021-09-12 13:29:09 +0000 <int-e> But I'm not in the mood to investigate (which would involve looking at stg code, and possibly even tracing the simplifier)
2021-09-12 13:29:55 +0000 <int-e> I tried both of those and they helped for me
2021-09-12 13:29:55 +0000 <IgnatInsarov[m]> pavonia:   Specialization is surely an important aspect when it comes to memoization: <https://www.reddit.com/r/haskell/comments/plfotc/examples_of_compiler_optimizations_changing/>
2021-09-12 13:30:21 +0000 <int-e> {-# NOINLINE memory #-}, on the other hand, didn't help
2021-09-12 13:30:29 +0000burnsidesLlama(~burnsides@dhcp168-018.wadham.ox.ac.uk)
2021-09-12 13:31:07 +0000enoq(~enoq@2a05:1141:1f5:5600:b9c9:721a:599:bfe7)
2021-09-12 13:31:30 +0000 <IgnatInsarov[m]> Oh you are right, they actually work.
2021-09-12 13:31:42 +0000 <int-e> but I can't really explain why they help... I followed my gut.
2021-09-12 13:31:58 +0000 <IgnatInsarov[m]> I suppose I tried the pragmas on some other variant of the code.
2021-09-12 13:32:18 +0000 <IgnatInsarov[m]> I have been re-arranging it for a few hours last night.
2021-09-12 13:33:02 +0000 <IgnatInsarov[m]> int-e: How should I quote you?
2021-09-12 13:33:03 +0000amitnjha(~amit@024-216-124-116.res.spectrum.com) (Quit: amitnjha)
2021-09-12 13:33:12 +0000 <int-e> don't bother
2021-09-12 13:33:20 +0000amitnjha(~amit@024-216-124-116.res.spectrum.com)
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2021-09-12 13:33:34 +0000 <IgnatInsarov[m]> Since you found a solution, I have to attribute it to you when I write about it.
2021-09-12 13:33:45 +0000amitnjha(~amit@024-216-124-116.res.spectrum.com)
2021-09-12 13:33:48 +0000amitnjha(~amit@024-216-124-116.res.spectrum.com) (Client Quit)
2021-09-12 13:33:49 +0000sedeki(~textual@user/sedeki)
2021-09-12 13:33:52 +0000 <IgnatInsarov[m]> «A friendly person on IRC»?
2021-09-12 13:34:02 +0000amitnjha(~amit@024-216-124-116.res.spectrum.com)
2021-09-12 13:34:17 +0000 <int-e> Works for me. int-e on IRC works too, I just don't think I did a whole lot here.
2021-09-12 13:34:34 +0000 <int-e> The real work would be in explaining the difference.
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2021-09-12 13:56:31 +0000 <IgnatInsarov[m]> I wrote it up on Reddit: <https://www.reddit.com/r/haskellquestions/comments/pmt3g8/why_does_adding_trace_give_a_tenfold_spe…>
2021-09-12 13:56:55 +0000 <IgnatInsarov[m]> Thanks everyone and see you all later.
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2021-09-12 14:26:07 +0000 <maerwald> IgnatInsarov[m]: where's the repo again?
2021-09-12 14:29:10 +0000 <mangoiv> Hi, is there a recommended order of files to look into when I'm trying to read myself into the WayMonad project? I'd love to contribute but such projects are always soooo big I get frustrated tryin to understand what's going on really quickly...
2021-09-12 14:29:15 +0000 <mangoiv> Thanks in advance y'all
2021-09-12 14:32:29 +0000 <lechner> Hi, would someone please help me with these type errors? I have a hard time seeing what's going on. https://paste.tomsmeding.com/Itli1J6O#file-2
2021-09-12 14:35:57 +0000 <kuribas> lechner: you need lazy Text, not strict Text.
2021-09-12 14:36:04 +0000 <kuribas> Data.Text.Lazy
2021-09-12 14:36:55 +0000 <lechner> kuribas: thanks!
2021-09-12 14:37:29 +0000 <maerwald> IgnatInsarov[m]: I found it
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2021-09-12 14:47:20 +0000 <geekosaur> mangoiv, there's a pointer to a matrix room in the right sidebar of https://github.com/L-as/waymonad, you might have more luck there
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2021-09-12 14:53:59 +0000 <mangoiv> geekosaur, thanks for your answer, I'll definitely look into that. (First I gotta get back to a distro with Systemd, otherwise no Nix D: )
2021-09-12 14:54:03 +0000acidjnk_new(~acidjnk@p200300d0c7203034c44d9fe177fb36b1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2021-09-12 14:54:25 +0000 <mangoiv> (say, how do you get those fany name colors?)
2021-09-12 14:54:56 +0000 <geekosaur> your client does it, irc normally doesn't have color to speak of
2021-09-12 14:55:58 +0000agoraphobic(~agoraphob@ip11-173.bon.riksnet.se)
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2021-09-12 15:00:59 +0000 <lechner> mangoiv geekosaur: thanks for that pointer. i'm a former xmonad user. why is the 'hayland' library mentioned here obsolete, and what is its replacement? https://github.com/L-as/waymonad#hsroots
2021-09-12 15:03:11 +0000 <geekosaur> that I couldn't tell you. I'm an xmonad developer. I'm aware of waymonad but not much beyond that
2021-09-12 15:03:58 +0000 <geekosaur> but I'd guess hayland is a Haskell binding or reimplementation of the basic Wayland library
2021-09-12 15:04:07 +0000 <lechner> okay, thanks! perhaps it's ohe of these https://github.com/abooij/sudbury#related-projects
2021-09-12 15:04:45 +0000 <lechner> or sudbury itself, although there has been no activity
2021-09-12 15:06:14 +0000 <lechner> geekosaur: also, thaks for xmonad. it was great under X
2021-09-12 15:06:20 +0000 <lechner> thnks
2021-09-12 15:06:29 +0000 <lechner> thanks
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2021-09-12 15:56:10 +0000 <janus> why is the quadratic Aeson problem not visible on https://www.reddit.com/r/haskell/top/?t=month ? i can still see it on https://www.reddit.com/r/haskell/comments/pm7rcr/cs_syd_json_vulnerability_in_haskells_aeson/
2021-09-12 15:56:34 +0000 <kuribas> janus: it's there?
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2021-09-12 16:00:03 +0000 <janus> kuribas: aaah ok i must have somehow hid it by accident, it has happened before.. still don't know how this happens
2021-09-12 16:00:06 +0000thonoht[m](~thonohtma@2001:470:69fc:105::d7be) (Quit: You have been kicked for being idle)
2021-09-12 16:00:08 +0000boxscape(~boxscape@user/boxscape) (Quit: You have been kicked for being idle)
2021-09-12 16:00:13 +0000 <janus> i must be hitting some hotkey ...
2021-09-12 16:00:29 +0000boxscape(~boxscape@user/boxscape)
2021-09-12 16:01:00 +0000lechnerdid not know about r/ hide feature
2021-09-12 16:02:15 +0000 <janus> RES has this feature... but on the other hand, it shouldn't work in incognito mode, and it does... so weird
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2021-09-12 17:41:13 +0000 <Las[m]> Does anyone know whether there's a way to make all functions INLINABLE?
2021-09-12 17:41:25 +0000amahl(~amahl@dsl-jklbng12-54fbca-64.dhcp.inet.fi)
2021-09-12 17:42:37 +0000 <Las[m]> lechner: AFAIU it's marked obsolete because the author moved onto Sudbury as you can tell
2021-09-12 17:42:57 +0000 <Las[m]> The main difference being Sudbury doesn't interface with libwayland
2021-09-12 17:43:11 +0000 <Las[m]> The reason Waymonad uses Hayland is because we need to interface with libwayland, since that's what wlroots uses
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2021-09-12 18:17:03 +0000 <lechner> Las[m]: thanks! I am currently on sway and look forward to your compositor
2021-09-12 18:17:52 +0000 <Las[m]> lechner: Thanks! Hopefully I'll get some progress done.
2021-09-12 18:19:19 +0000 <Las[m]> elvishjerricco: Did you ever find an answer to https://old.reddit.com/r/haskell/comments/6i2t27/ghc_option_for_marking_everything_inlinable/ ?
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2021-09-12 23:19:46 +0000 <elvishjerricco> Las[m]: I did not, but I've since learned that was a bad idea anyway. In this GHC proposal https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/pull/313 Alexis pointed out that she tried compiling a sizable project with everything inlinable and GHC just wouldn't terminate; it had too much to try and specialize
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2021-09-12 23:20:51 +0000hyiltiz(~quassel@31.220.5.250)
2021-09-12 23:26:16 +0000 <Cajun> so i was looking into lens libraries and i noticed two big ones, `lens` and `optics` so i was wondering what is the best one to use. i understand the implementation differences, but what about actually just using it?
2021-09-12 23:27:01 +0000 <ldlework> Cajun: I haven't gotten there but I heard that `lens` is more traditional and formal and `optics` is more egronomic and goes beyond the formalism to make it easier to use
2021-09-12 23:27:06 +0000 <ldlework> that's just what i heard
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2021-09-12 23:27:58 +0000 <geekosaur> they're equivalent at included functionality. optics is easier for beginners because it has better error messages, lens has more power for advanced users because it's easily expandable
2021-09-12 23:29:20 +0000 <Cajun> nice, optics seems like a good start then. ive watched the long 2hr talk the dev of the lens library gave along with some optics tutorials, but they never go into detail about using it within a monad transformer stack. is there any good article/talk/textbook chapter on that?
2021-09-12 23:30:30 +0000 <geekosaur> that I couldn't really tell you. although both provide some stuff for working directly with StateT in particular
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2021-09-12 23:40:22 +0000 <c_wraith> optics is a closed ecosystem, lens is open. With all the advantages and disadvantages that brings to both
2021-09-12 23:41:18 +0000 <ldlework> i'm glad others chimed in to give real takes :D
2021-09-12 23:43:57 +0000 <c_wraith> to expand slightly: optics has a list of things you are allowed to do. When you try to do anything else, you get vocal error messages telling you that's not allowed. lens just says "here are some things, do whatever you want", and it allows a lot more to be done. But that's at the cost of ghc making half-sense of things you wrote and telling you about a unification error nowhere near your actual bug
2021-09-12 23:44:06 +0000zaquest(~notzaques@5.128.210.178) (Quit: Leaving)
2021-09-12 23:44:16 +0000 <dsal> lens lets you do *weird* stuff.
2021-09-12 23:44:29 +0000 <dsal> With hypergeneric mechanisms.
2021-09-12 23:44:53 +0000 <c_wraith> also, there are things optics *could* do, and just chooses not to. At least one of which is really nice.
2021-09-12 23:45:18 +0000zaquest(~notzaques@5.128.210.178)
2021-09-12 23:46:24 +0000 <c_wraith> holesOf is great fun for fanout sorts of problems.
2021-09-12 23:47:44 +0000 <ldlework> Yesterday I learned about Monoids, Functors and Applicatives
2021-09-12 23:47:57 +0000 <ldlework> Words I thought I would never bother to understand :P
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2021-09-12 23:51:40 +0000 <Cajun> with that toolset you might want to take a look at Alternative
2021-09-12 23:51:51 +0000 <ldlework> I think HFFP is going to move onto Monad proper next
2021-09-12 23:52:01 +0000 <ldlework> But I just wrote down "Alternative" in my notes, so thanks
2021-09-12 23:52:32 +0000 <Cajun> yeah its to do with Monoids and Applicatives. its quite useful when you need it
2021-09-12 23:52:42 +0000 <c_wraith> Alternative can show up in a lot of places, but it's something you use constantly when writing parsers in particular.
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