IRCBrowse

2021/09/03

2021-09-03 00:00:22 +0200eggplantade(~Eggplanta@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:e4b5:4e5:fb1:9aed) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-09-03 00:01:10 +0200lavaman(~lavaman@98.38.249.169) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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2021-09-03 00:04:08 +0200Brumaire(~quassel@81-64-14-121.rev.numericable.fr) (Quit: ran away)
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2021-09-03 00:10:47 +0200Lord_of_Life(~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915) (Excess Flood)
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2021-09-03 00:35:13 +0200Morrow_(~Morrow@bzq-110-168-31-106.red.bezeqint.net)
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2021-09-03 01:37:33 +0200machinedgod(~machinedg@24.105.81.50)
2021-09-03 01:38:02 +0200waleee(~waleee@h-98-128-228-119.NA.cust.bahnhof.se)
2021-09-03 01:40:23 +0200ec(~ec@gateway/tor-sasl/ec)
2021-09-03 01:42:47 +0200hseg(~gesh@IGLD-84-228-238-9.inter.net.il)
2021-09-03 01:43:37 +0200 <hseg> hi. are there alternative preludes where the IntN types error on overflow?
2021-09-03 01:43:54 +0200 <dsal> I remember this fight recently...
2021-09-03 01:44:20 +0200 <hseg> or that provide overflowing IntN newtypes?
2021-09-03 01:45:22 +0200 <hseg> bc I'm opening a ticket against semirings giving IntN both an OrderedRing instance (which implicitly views IntN as a finite approximation of Integer), and a wrapping Ring instance
2021-09-03 01:45:36 +0200 <nitrix> There are safeint packages that throw exceptions, but that has the usual problem of checking for exceptions.
2021-09-03 01:45:57 +0200 <hseg> especially since the wrapping Ring instance is explicitly described as "modular arithmetic"
2021-09-03 01:46:22 +0200machinedgod(~machinedg@24.105.81.50) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2021-09-03 01:46:55 +0200 <hseg> aren't there system signals that can be trapped for?
2021-09-03 01:47:05 +0200 <hseg> iirc that's the terminology
2021-09-03 01:47:44 +0200raehik(~raehik@cpc95906-rdng25-2-0-cust156.15-3.cable.virginm.net)
2021-09-03 01:52:11 +0200 <hpc> pretty sure setting those traps is a process-global state
2021-09-03 01:52:12 +0200 <hseg> apparently there isn't a hardware trap for this. wtf
2021-09-03 01:52:28 +0200 <hseg> ah, right
2021-09-03 01:52:46 +0200 <hseg> so that's problematic as well
2021-09-03 01:52:54 +0200 <hpc> also look at how rust is handling this, in their quest to kill undefined behavior
2021-09-03 01:53:11 +0200 <hpc> i remember overflow being one of their big sticking points
2021-09-03 01:54:24 +0200alx741(~alx741@186.178.109.154)
2021-09-03 01:55:48 +0200deejaytee(~deejaytee@cpc91196-cmbg18-2-0-cust215.5-4.cable.virginm.net) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2021-09-03 01:56:09 +0200 <hseg> ig I'll just recommend in the ticket that IntN not be given default instances either way, and instead to have Modular and Segment wrappers
2021-09-03 01:56:22 +0200 <hseg> where Modular t has modular arith semantics
2021-09-03 01:56:40 +0200raehik(~raehik@cpc95906-rdng25-2-0-cust156.15-3.cable.virginm.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-09-03 01:56:55 +0200 <hseg> and Segment t implies t is a subtype of a larger type that has a valid instance, and that overflows might break semantics
2021-09-03 01:57:10 +0200 <hseg> checking for overflows being up to the user
2021-09-03 01:57:33 +0200 <hseg> not up to me to fix haskell's integer situation, after all
2021-09-03 02:01:24 +0200ec(~ec@gateway/tor-sasl/ec) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2021-09-03 02:03:52 +0200MQ-17J(~MQ-17J@d14-69-206-129.try.wideopenwest.com) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2021-09-03 02:06:22 +0200ec(~ec@gateway/tor-sasl/ec)
2021-09-03 02:07:03 +0200 <sm> tsk hseg we are waiting
2021-09-03 02:07:30 +0200 <hseg> hey, one corner of the universe at a time!
2021-09-03 02:08:30 +0200MQ-17J(~MQ-17J@d14-69-206-129.try.wideopenwest.com)
2021-09-03 02:25:08 +0200ec(~ec@gateway/tor-sasl/ec) (Quit: ec)
2021-09-03 02:25:20 +0200hseg(~gesh@IGLD-84-228-238-9.inter.net.il) (Quit: WeeChat 3.2)
2021-09-03 02:35:33 +0200eggplantade(~Eggplanta@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:e4b5:4e5:fb1:9aed) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2021-09-03 04:00:00 +0200sander(~sander@user/sander) (Quit: So long! :))
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2021-09-03 04:08:27 +0200FinnElijaGuest4486
2021-09-03 04:08:27 +0200Guest4486(~finn_elij@user/finn-elija/x-0085643) (Killed (calcium.libera.chat (Nickname regained by services)))
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2021-09-03 04:35:10 +0200delYsid(~user@84-115-55-45.cable.dynamic.surfer.at) (ERC (IRC client for Emacs 27.1.50))
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2021-09-03 04:40:00 +0200Topik[m](~topikmatr@2001:470:69fc:105::a082)
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2021-09-03 04:53:02 +0200Morrow_(~Morrow@bzq-110-168-31-106.red.bezeqint.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2021-09-03 04:59:11 +0200[itchyjunk](~itchyjunk@user/itchyjunk/x-7353470) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2021-09-03 06:56:03 +0200jess(~jess@libera/staff/jess) ()
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2021-09-03 07:34:38 +0200takuan(~takuan@178-116-218-225.access.telenet.be)
2021-09-03 07:36:10 +0200mei(~mei@user/mei)
2021-09-03 07:38:17 +0200hannessteffenhag(~hannesste@ip4d14ffee.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-09-03 07:44:49 +0200myShoggoth(~myShoggot@97-120-70-214.ptld.qwest.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-09-03 07:45:35 +0200Vajb(~Vajb@hag-jnsbng11-58c3ab-85.dhcp.inet.fi) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2021-09-03 07:46:57 +0200Vajb(~Vajb@hag-jnsbng11-58c3ab-85.dhcp.inet.fi)
2021-09-03 07:49:49 +0200Neuromancer(~Neuromanc@user/neuromancer)
2021-09-03 07:58:18 +0200slavaqq(~slavaqq@sdmail.sdserver.cz)
2021-09-03 08:00:46 +0200jespada(~jespada@90.254.245.194) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-09-03 08:05:37 +0200jespada(~jespada@90.254.245.194)
2021-09-03 08:06:52 +0200leplep-
2021-09-03 08:15:35 +0200jakalx(~jakalx@base.jakalx.net) ()
2021-09-03 08:21:12 +0200vysn(~vysn@user/vysn)
2021-09-03 08:24:01 +0200agoraphobic(~agoraphob@ip11-173.bon.riksnet.se)
2021-09-03 08:25:52 +0200lortabac(~lortabac@2a01:e0a:541:b8f0:5028:d3a0:f64f:ec15)
2021-09-03 08:27:08 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
2021-09-03 08:36:04 +0200aegon(~mike@174.127.249.180) (Quit: leaving)
2021-09-03 08:40:31 +0200jakalx(~jakalx@base.jakalx.net)
2021-09-03 08:40:35 +0200Akronymus(~Akronymus@85.31.8.180)
2021-09-03 08:40:56 +0200dhouthoo(~dhouthoo@178-117-36-167.access.telenet.be)
2021-09-03 08:48:37 +0200wroathe(~wroathe@user/wroathe) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-09-03 08:49:44 +0200kenran(~kenran@b2b-37-24-119-190.unitymedia.biz)
2021-09-03 08:51:40 +0200hannessteffenhag(~hannesste@ip4d14ffee.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de)
2021-09-03 08:53:05 +0200aerona(~aerona@2600:6c54:4600:f300:5098:ea7e:8fa8:e9c) (Quit: Leaving)
2021-09-03 08:59:52 +0200slowButPresent(~slowButPr@user/slowbutpresent) (Quit: leaving)
2021-09-03 09:01:16 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-09-03 09:05:32 +0200wroathe(~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
2021-09-03 09:05:32 +0200wroathe(~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) (Changing host)
2021-09-03 09:05:32 +0200wroathe(~wroathe@user/wroathe)
2021-09-03 09:10:19 +0200wroathe(~wroathe@user/wroathe) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2021-09-03 09:10:25 +0200max22-(~maxime@2a01cb0883359800f71e865f3b8a9569.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2021-09-03 09:12:05 +0200me_(~me@178.70.139.179) (Quit: Leaving)
2021-09-03 09:13:43 +0200Gurkenglas(~Gurkengla@dslb-088-075-022-191.088.075.pools.vodafone-ip.de)
2021-09-03 09:15:24 +0200cfricke(~cfricke@user/cfricke)
2021-09-03 09:18:03 +0200me_(~me@178.70.139.179)
2021-09-03 09:18:35 +0200MQ-17J(~MQ-17J@d14-69-206-129.try.wideopenwest.com) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2021-09-03 09:18:53 +0200MQ-17J(~MQ-17J@d14-69-206-129.try.wideopenwest.com)
2021-09-03 09:19:34 +0200vpan(~vilius@212.117.1.172)
2021-09-03 09:22:00 +0200kuribas(~user@ptr-25vy0i9db35irr18tb3.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be)
2021-09-03 09:23:14 +0200MQ-17J(~MQ-17J@d14-69-206-129.try.wideopenwest.com) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2021-09-03 09:23:14 +0200dsp(~dsp@cpc152107-haye27-2-0-cust227.17-4.cable.virginm.net)
2021-09-03 09:23:31 +0200MQ-17J(~MQ-17J@d14-69-206-129.try.wideopenwest.com)
2021-09-03 09:25:24 +0200dsp(~dsp@cpc152107-haye27-2-0-cust227.17-4.cable.virginm.net) (Client Quit)
2021-09-03 09:26:07 +0200dsp(~dsp@cpc152107-haye27-2-0-cust227.17-4.cable.virginm.net)
2021-09-03 09:26:22 +0200acidjnk_new(~acidjnk@p200300d0c720308244f5798d54dcee82.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2021-09-03 09:30:23 +0200eggplantade(~Eggplanta@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:e4b5:4e5:fb1:9aed) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-09-03 09:31:34 +0200lavaman(~lavaman@98.38.249.169)
2021-09-03 09:33:43 +0200MQ-17J(~MQ-17J@d14-69-206-129.try.wideopenwest.com) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-09-03 09:35:55 +0200lavaman(~lavaman@98.38.249.169) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-09-03 09:35:57 +0200MQ-17J(~MQ-17J@d14-69-206-129.try.wideopenwest.com)
2021-09-03 09:43:41 +0200waleee(~waleee@2001:9b0:216:8200:d457:9189:7843:1dbd)
2021-09-03 09:45:10 +0200johnw(~johnw@2600:1700:cf00:db0:ddb1:e5fb:471:495e) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-09-03 09:46:50 +0200tzh(~tzh@c-24-21-73-154.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) (Quit: zzz)
2021-09-03 09:53:40 +0200gehmehgeh(~user@user/gehmehgeh)
2021-09-03 09:55:07 +0200MQ-17J(~MQ-17J@d14-69-206-129.try.wideopenwest.com) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2021-09-03 09:55:25 +0200MQ-17J(~MQ-17J@d14-69-206-129.try.wideopenwest.com)
2021-09-03 09:56:19 +0200jneira(~jneira@212.8.115.226)
2021-09-03 09:57:43 +0200Guest10(~Guest10@93-172-153-232.bb.netvision.net.il)
2021-09-03 09:57:58 +0200aman(~aman@user/aman)
2021-09-03 09:59:40 +0200MQ-17J(~MQ-17J@d14-69-206-129.try.wideopenwest.com) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-09-03 09:59:48 +0200jneira(~jneira@212.8.115.226) (Client Quit)
2021-09-03 10:00:01 +0200jneira(~jneira@212.8.115.226)
2021-09-03 10:00:36 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
2021-09-03 10:02:14 +0200JavierNeira[m]jneira[m]
2021-09-03 10:02:24 +0200Boomerang(~Boomerang@xd520f68c.cust.hiper.dk)
2021-09-03 10:03:49 +0200MQ-17J(~MQ-17J@d14-69-206-129.try.wideopenwest.com)
2021-09-03 10:04:12 +0200hendursa1(~weechat@user/hendursaga)
2021-09-03 10:04:16 +0200johnw(~johnw@2600:1700:cf00:db0:5468:db28:5c48:90a6)
2021-09-03 10:05:22 +0200jneira(~jneira@212.8.115.226) (Quit: Client closed)
2021-09-03 10:06:57 +0200hendursaga(~weechat@user/hendursaga) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2021-09-03 10:07:28 +0200aplainzetakind(~johndoe@captainludd.powered.by.lunarbnc.net) (Quit: Free ZNC ~ Powered by LunarBNC: https://LunarBNC.net)
2021-09-03 10:07:37 +0200aplainzetakind(~johndoe@captainludd.powered.by.lunarbnc.net)
2021-09-03 10:07:39 +0200Sgeo(~Sgeo@user/sgeo) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-09-03 10:10:46 +0200Feuermagier(~Feuermagi@user/feuermagier) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-09-03 10:10:59 +0200Feuermagier(~Feuermagi@user/feuermagier)
2021-09-03 10:13:53 +0200nschoe(~quassel@178.251.84.79)
2021-09-03 10:14:36 +0200waleee(~waleee@2001:9b0:216:8200:d457:9189:7843:1dbd) (Quit: WeeChat 3.2)
2021-09-03 10:17:29 +0200bontaq(~user@ool-45779fe5.dyn.optonline.net) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2021-09-03 10:19:38 +0200bakinonion[m](~bakinonio@2001:470:69fc:105::ddb3) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2021-09-03 10:19:38 +0200masaeedu[m](~masaeedum@2001:470:69fc:105::e256) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2021-09-03 10:19:38 +0200maralorn(~maralorn@2001:470:69fc:105::251) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2021-09-03 10:19:42 +0200reza[m](~rezaphone@2001:470:69fc:105::3eda) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2021-09-03 10:19:42 +0200bb010g(~bb010g@2001:470:69fc:105::9a5) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2021-09-03 10:19:42 +0200Drew[m](~drewefenw@2001:470:69fc:105::c8c4) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2021-09-03 10:19:42 +0200vaibhavsagar[m](~vaibhavsa@2001:470:69fc:105::ffe) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2021-09-03 10:19:42 +0200boxscape(~boxscape@user/boxscape) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2021-09-03 10:19:54 +0200rosariopulella[m(~rosariopu@2001:470:69fc:105::a57) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2021-09-03 10:19:54 +0200aveltras[m](~aveltrasm@2001:470:69fc:105::3ef9) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2021-09-03 10:19:54 +0200adziahel[m](~adziahelm@2001:470:69fc:105::b4d) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2021-09-03 10:19:54 +0200wallymathieu[m](~wallymath@2001:470:69fc:105::16ae) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2021-09-03 10:19:54 +0200infinisil(~infinisil@2001:470:69fc:105::ff8) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2021-09-03 10:19:54 +0200Magnus[m](~magthetch@2001:470:69fc:105::d1a7) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2021-09-03 10:19:54 +0200OndejSkup[m](~mimivxmat@2001:470:69fc:105::c300) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2021-09-03 10:19:54 +0200jakefromstatefar(~jakefroms@2001:470:69fc:105::15ef) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2021-09-03 10:19:59 +0200jkachmar(~jkachmar@2001:470:69fc:105::c72d) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-09-03 10:19:59 +0200denbrahe[m](~denbrahem@2001:470:69fc:105::19c0) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-09-03 10:19:59 +0200psydroid(~psydroid@user/psydroid) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-09-03 10:20:04 +0200oak-(~oakuniver@2001:470:69fc:105::fcd) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2021-09-03 10:20:04 +0200jesser[m](~jessermat@2001:470:69fc:105::d5ae) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2021-09-03 10:20:37 +0200shriekingnoise(~shrieking@186.137.144.80) (Quit: Quit)
2021-09-03 10:21:13 +0200bakinonion[m](~bakinonio@2001:470:69fc:105::ddb3)
2021-09-03 10:21:23 +0200maralorn(~maralorn@2001:470:69fc:105::251)
2021-09-03 10:21:28 +0200masaeedu[m](~masaeedum@2001:470:69fc:105::e256)
2021-09-03 10:22:10 +0200Erutuon(~Erutuon@user/erutuon) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2021-09-03 10:22:37 +0200kar1(~kar1@2001:470:69fc:105::c308) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2021-09-03 10:22:37 +0200jaror[m](~jaror@2001:470:69fc:105::265) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2021-09-03 10:22:40 +0200commuswift[m](~commuswif@2001:470:69fc:105::e862) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2021-09-03 10:22:40 +0200cdsmith(~cdsmithma@2001:470:69fc:105::284) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2021-09-03 10:22:44 +0200Deewiant(~deewiant@2001:470:69fc:105::2fd3) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2021-09-03 10:22:44 +0200zfnmxt(~zfnmxtzfn@2001:470:69fc:105::2b32) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2021-09-03 10:22:49 +0200waleee(~waleee@2001:9b0:216:8200:d457:9189:7843:1dbd)
2021-09-03 10:23:08 +0200vaibhavsagar[m](~vaibhavsa@2001:470:69fc:105::ffe)
2021-09-03 10:23:11 +0200reza[m](~rezaphone@2001:470:69fc:105::3eda)
2021-09-03 10:23:38 +0200boxscape(~boxscape@user/boxscape)
2021-09-03 10:23:45 +0200Drew[m](~drewefenw@2001:470:69fc:105::c8c4)
2021-09-03 10:23:57 +0200aveltras[m](~aveltrasm@2001:470:69fc:105::3ef9)
2021-09-03 10:23:57 +0200wallymathieu[m](~wallymath@2001:470:69fc:105::16ae)
2021-09-03 10:23:57 +0200adziahel[m](~adziahelm@2001:470:69fc:105::b4d)
2021-09-03 10:24:12 +0200Magnus[m](~magthetch@2001:470:69fc:105::d1a7)
2021-09-03 10:24:23 +0200OndejSkup[m](~mimivxmat@2001:470:69fc:105::c300)
2021-09-03 10:24:30 +0200stiell(~stiell@gateway/tor-sasl/stiell) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2021-09-03 10:25:19 +0200jakefromstatefar(~jakefroms@2001:470:69fc:105::15ef)
2021-09-03 10:25:25 +0200rosariopulella[m(~rosariopu@2001:470:69fc:105::a57)
2021-09-03 10:25:30 +0200infinisil(~infinisil@2001:470:69fc:105::ff8)
2021-09-03 10:25:33 +0200jesser[m](~jessermat@2001:470:69fc:105::d5ae)
2021-09-03 10:26:39 +0200bb010g(~bb010g@2001:470:69fc:105::9a5)
2021-09-03 10:27:07 +0200oak-(~oakuniver@2001:470:69fc:105::fcd)
2021-09-03 10:27:12 +0200Vajb(~Vajb@hag-jnsbng11-58c3ab-85.dhcp.inet.fi) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-09-03 10:27:13 +0200denbrahe[m](~denbrahem@2001:470:69fc:105::19c0)
2021-09-03 10:27:57 +0200jkachmar(~jkachmar@2001:470:69fc:105::c72d)
2021-09-03 10:28:40 +0200Pickchea(~private@user/pickchea)
2021-09-03 10:29:03 +0200kar1(~kar1@2001:470:69fc:105::c308)
2021-09-03 10:29:32 +0200jaror[m](~jaror@2001:470:69fc:105::265)
2021-09-03 10:30:50 +0200commuswift[m](~commuswif@2001:470:69fc:105::e862)
2021-09-03 10:30:54 +0200psydroid(~psydroid@user/psydroid)
2021-09-03 10:30:55 +0200cdsmith(~cdsmithma@2001:470:69fc:105::284)
2021-09-03 10:31:13 +0200eggplantade(~Eggplanta@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:b12f:f6e7:be8:89a1)
2021-09-03 10:31:31 +0200zfnmxt(~zfnmxtzfn@2001:470:69fc:105::2b32)
2021-09-03 10:31:35 +0200Deewiant(~deewiant@2001:470:69fc:105::2fd3)
2021-09-03 10:32:07 +0200Vajb(~Vajb@n1xq4ni1adi29tefj-2.v6.elisa-mobile.fi)
2021-09-03 10:34:17 +0200amahl(~amahl@dsl-jklbng12-54fbca-64.dhcp.inet.fi)
2021-09-03 10:35:32 +0200eggplantade(~Eggplanta@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:b12f:f6e7:be8:89a1) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2021-09-03 10:38:17 +0200kuribas(~user@ptr-25vy0i9db35irr18tb3.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-09-03 10:39:01 +0200hnOsmium0001(uid453710@id-453710.stonehaven.irccloud.com) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2021-09-03 10:43:41 +0200bw(sid2730@user/betawaffle) ()
2021-09-03 10:44:12 +0200bw(sid2730@user/betawaffle)
2021-09-03 10:46:15 +0200lep-lep
2021-09-03 10:48:18 +0200chomwitt(~chomwitt@2a02:587:dc1c:8c00:12c3:7bff:fe6d:d374)
2021-09-03 10:48:19 +0200Vajb(~Vajb@n1xq4ni1adi29tefj-2.v6.elisa-mobile.fi) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-09-03 10:48:51 +0200Vajb(~Vajb@hag-jnsbng11-58c3ab-85.dhcp.inet.fi)
2021-09-03 10:49:31 +0200Vajb(~Vajb@hag-jnsbng11-58c3ab-85.dhcp.inet.fi) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-09-03 10:49:44 +0200Vajb(~Vajb@hag-jnsbng11-58c3ab-85.dhcp.inet.fi)
2021-09-03 10:51:04 +0200amahl(~amahl@dsl-jklbng12-54fbca-64.dhcp.inet.fi) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2021-09-03 10:51:59 +0200stiell(~stiell@gateway/tor-sasl/stiell)
2021-09-03 10:53:08 +0200jonrh(sid5185@id-5185.charlton.irccloud.com) ()
2021-09-03 10:53:23 +0200jonrh(sid5185@id-5185.ilkley.irccloud.com)
2021-09-03 10:54:34 +0200burnsidesLlama(~burnsides@client-8-65.eduroam.oxuni.org.uk)
2021-09-03 10:54:35 +0200burnsidesLlama(~burnsides@client-8-65.eduroam.oxuni.org.uk) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-09-03 10:55:01 +0200burnsidesLlama(~burnsides@dhcp168-019.wadham.ox.ac.uk)
2021-09-03 10:56:10 +0200MQ-17J(~MQ-17J@d14-69-206-129.try.wideopenwest.com) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2021-09-03 10:56:10 +0200azeem(~azeem@2a00:801:3c7:f1df:e0c7:71a9:98ee:cabb)
2021-09-03 10:57:04 +0200ubert1(~Thunderbi@77.119.216.109.wireless.dyn.drei.com)
2021-09-03 10:57:47 +0200jonathanx(~jonathan@dyn-8-sc.cdg.chalmers.se) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2021-09-03 10:57:52 +0200ubert(~Thunderbi@91.141.75.40.wireless.dyn.drei.com) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-09-03 10:57:52 +0200ubert1ubert
2021-09-03 10:59:25 +0200sa1(sid7690@id-7690.charlton.irccloud.com) ()
2021-09-03 10:59:25 +0200MQ-17J(~MQ-17J@d14-69-206-129.try.wideopenwest.com)
2021-09-03 10:59:41 +0200sa1(sid7690@id-7690.ilkley.irccloud.com)
2021-09-03 11:01:42 +0200jonathanx(~jonathan@dyn-8-sc.cdg.chalmers.se)
2021-09-03 11:03:59 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2021-09-03 11:04:06 +0200Guest10(~Guest10@93-172-153-232.bb.netvision.net.il) (Quit: Client closed)
2021-09-03 11:06:44 +0200caasih(sid13241@id-13241.charlton.irccloud.com) ()
2021-09-03 11:06:59 +0200caasih(sid13241@id-13241.ilkley.irccloud.com)
2021-09-03 11:08:50 +0200SethTisue__(sid14912@id-14912.charlton.irccloud.com) ()
2021-09-03 11:09:08 +0200SethTisue__(sid14912@id-14912.ilkley.irccloud.com)
2021-09-03 11:09:25 +0200cheater(~Username@user/cheater) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-09-03 11:10:53 +0200rune(sid21167@id-21167.charlton.irccloud.com) ()
2021-09-03 11:11:07 +0200rune(sid21167@id-21167.ilkley.irccloud.com)
2021-09-03 11:17:33 +0200hololeap_(~hololeap@user/hololeap)
2021-09-03 11:18:17 +0200Feuermagier(~Feuermagi@user/feuermagier) (Quit: Leaving)
2021-09-03 11:18:27 +0200hololeap(~hololeap@user/hololeap) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2021-09-03 11:18:45 +0200cheater(~Username@user/cheater)
2021-09-03 11:18:57 +0200mc47(~mc47@xmonad/TheMC47)
2021-09-03 11:19:53 +0200fendor(~fendor@178.165.178.184.wireless.dyn.drei.com)
2021-09-03 11:21:06 +0200waleee(~waleee@2001:9b0:216:8200:d457:9189:7843:1dbd) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2021-09-03 11:25:31 +0200S11001001(sid42510@id-42510.charlton.irccloud.com) ()
2021-09-03 11:25:47 +0200S11001001(sid42510@id-42510.ilkley.irccloud.com)
2021-09-03 11:25:55 +0200slavaqq(~slavaqq@sdmail.sdserver.cz) (Quit: Client closed)
2021-09-03 11:30:12 +0200Taneb(~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-09-03 11:30:16 +0200edwardk(sid47016@haskell/developer/edwardk) ()
2021-09-03 11:30:20 +0200Pickchea(~private@user/pickchea) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2021-09-03 11:30:30 +0200Taneb(~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org)
2021-09-03 11:30:32 +0200edwardk(sid47016@haskell/developer/edwardk)
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2021-09-03 11:33:24 +0200acidjnk_new3(~acidjnk@p200300d0c7203082044439077358aa69.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
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2021-09-03 13:11:24 +0200 <kuribas> Wouldn't it be possible to define monadTransformers based on lift?
2021-09-03 13:12:00 +0200 <kuribas> For example, a statemonad would just do the state functions, then lift up the parent stacks?
2021-09-03 13:12:16 +0200hyiltiz(~quassel@31.220.5.250)
2021-09-03 13:13:19 +0200 <kuribas> wouldn't that solve the quadratic instances problem?
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2021-09-03 13:26:10 +0200aman(~aman@user/aman) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-09-03 13:27:55 +0200 <lortabac> kuribas: you can avoid the quadratic instances by using overlappable instances
2021-09-03 13:28:02 +0200fendor(~fendor@178.165.178.184.wireless.dyn.drei.com) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2021-09-03 13:28:11 +0200 <lortabac> I have seen various packages using this technique
2021-09-03 13:29:06 +0200 <lortabac> kuribas: see for example the MonadMetrics instances here: https://hackage.haskell.org/package/monad-metrics-0.2.2.0/docs/Control-Monad-Metrics.html
2021-09-03 13:29:57 +0200 <kuribas> ah it uses lift, that is what I mean...
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2021-09-03 14:18:07 +0200jumper149(~jumper149@80.240.31.34)
2021-09-03 14:18:43 +0200 <jumper149> Hi, I was wondering, if it's possible to set `default-extensions` for all targets in a cabal file (I have split up library, executable and test).
2021-09-03 14:19:12 +0200 <jumper149> Same goes for other options like `default-language`
2021-09-03 14:19:29 +0200 <tomsmeding> jumper149: check out https://cabal.readthedocs.io/en/3.4/cabal-package.html#common-stanzas
2021-09-03 14:24:25 +0200 <jumper149> tomsmeding: Perfect, ty :)
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2021-09-03 14:37:05 +0200 <jumper149> Is there something like: `Enum a => Proxy (x :: a) -> a`
2021-09-03 14:38:03 +0200 <jumper149> It should function similar to natVal.
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2021-09-03 15:01:59 +0200 <ski> jumper149 : which value in `a' do you expect as result ? the least one ? the greatest one ? some other ?
2021-09-03 15:03:40 +0200xff0x(~xff0x@2001:1a81:5362:1000:f7a:10f6:c105:a65a) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-09-03 15:03:45 +0200 <ski> for `natVal :: KnownNat n => Proxy n -> Integer', the constraint `KnownNat n' carries information about a particular natural. the `Enum a' constraint does not carry such information, it just tells you how to enumerate ranges, given bounds (and possibly step), and how to convert to and from `Int'
2021-09-03 15:04:10 +0200 <ski> @src Enum
2021-09-03 15:04:10 +0200 <lambdabot> class Enum a where
2021-09-03 15:04:10 +0200 <lambdabot> succ, pred :: a -> a
2021-09-03 15:04:10 +0200 <lambdabot> toEnum :: Int -> a
2021-09-03 15:04:10 +0200 <lambdabot> fromEnum :: a -> Int
2021-09-03 15:04:12 +0200 <lambdabot> enumFrom :: a -> [a]
2021-09-03 15:04:14 +0200 <lambdabot> enumFromThen, enumFromTo :: a -> a -> [a]
2021-09-03 15:04:16 +0200 <lambdabot> enumFromThenTo :: a -> a -> a -> [a]
2021-09-03 15:04:41 +0200xff0x(~xff0x@2001:1a81:5362:1000:ab65:46f5:7289:f422)
2021-09-03 15:04:49 +0200 <ski> if you want least or greatest, try `Bounded a'. otherwise, i dunno what you're looking for
2021-09-03 15:05:07 +0200ubert(~Thunderbi@77.119.216.109.wireless.dyn.drei.com) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2021-09-03 15:05:43 +0200Unhammer(~Unhammer@user/unhammer)
2021-09-03 15:05:52 +0200hendursa1(~weechat@user/hendursaga) (Quit: hendursa1)
2021-09-03 15:05:53 +0200 <ski> (well, not exactly step but the next value in the enumeration sequence ..)
2021-09-03 15:06:21 +0200hendursaga(~weechat@user/hendursaga)
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2021-09-03 15:09:53 +0200 <jumper149> ski: Well, ignore the `Enum`. I just want something that works for basic Enumeration types like `data X = A | B | C`
2021-09-03 15:10:31 +0200 <jumper149> I can certainly write a type class like `KnownX` where I set it manually.
2021-09-03 15:10:45 +0200 <jumper149> But it would be nice if there was some automiatic mechanism for this.
2021-09-03 15:11:04 +0200 <ski> perhaps you could try converting the `Integer' result from `natVal', using `toEnum' (with a "to `Int'" conversion inbetween)
2021-09-03 15:11:47 +0200ubert(~Thunderbi@178.115.65.0.wireless.dyn.drei.com) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2021-09-03 15:12:22 +0200 <ski> perhaps you could declare a `KnownEnum' class for this
2021-09-03 15:13:11 +0200vpan(~vilius@212.117.1.172) (Quit: Leaving.)
2021-09-03 15:14:35 +0200 <jumper149> ski: Exactly. I was hoping this exists already x)
2021-09-03 15:14:42 +0200xff0x(~xff0x@2001:1a81:5362:1000:ab65:46f5:7289:f422) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2021-09-03 15:14:57 +0200 <int-e> type family FromEnum (x :: a) :: Nat
2021-09-03 15:14:57 +0200deejaytee(~deejaytee@cpc91196-cmbg18-2-0-cust215.5-4.cable.virginm.net)
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2021-09-03 15:16:04 +0200 <ski> and `ToEnum' ?
2021-09-03 15:16:07 +0200 <int-e> hmm, and type KnownEnum x = KnownNat (FromEnum x)
2021-09-03 15:16:56 +0200 <int-e> Anyway, the point here is that you'd need Enum-like machinery on the type level, and none of that currently exists.
2021-09-03 15:17:21 +0200waleee(~waleee@2001:9b0:216:8200:d457:9189:7843:1dbd)
2021-09-03 15:18:14 +0200 <int-e> ski: Maybe, but it's not needed for KnownEnum x => Prxoy (x :: a) -> a
2021-09-03 15:18:45 +0200 <lortabac> there is probably something in singletons-base
2021-09-03 15:18:49 +0200 <int-e> Or rather, (KnownEnum x, Enum a) => Prxoy (x :: a) -> a
2021-09-03 15:18:54 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
2021-09-03 15:19:20 +0200lavaman(~lavaman@98.38.249.169)
2021-09-03 15:19:27 +0200 <int-e> Oh I should've added "in base"
2021-09-03 15:19:39 +0200 <jumper149> Do type level Fins exist yet?
2021-09-03 15:19:53 +0200 <ski> i was thinking of operations `enumVal :: (Enum a,KnownEnum a e) => proxy e -> a' and `someEnumVal :: Enum a => a -> Maybe (SomeEnum a)', where `SomeEnum a' encodes `exists e. KnownEnum a e *> ()', iow `data SomeEnum a = forall e. KnownEnum a e => MkSomeEnum'
2021-09-03 15:20:50 +0200Guest1035(~chris@81.96.113.213) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-09-03 15:21:32 +0200 <lortabac> jumper149: I got stuck on this same problem in one of my projects
2021-09-03 15:21:42 +0200 <lortabac> I haven't found any satisfactory solutions yet
2021-09-03 15:21:58 +0200 <ski> er, need some additional constraint on `a', for `someEnumVal', i think
2021-09-03 15:22:11 +0200skiponders
2021-09-03 15:23:25 +0200 <ski> (oh, btw, if you prefer, you could replace `()' by `Proxy e', iow instead of `MkSomeEnum', we say `MkSomeEnum (Proxy e)')
2021-09-03 15:25:42 +0200 <ski> hm, i guess we probably don't need an additional constraint on `a'. being able to embed `a' in `Integer' should suffice
2021-09-03 15:25:42 +0200 <lortabac> basically I want to allow users of my library to do dependent pattern-matching on a finite subset of the natural numbers
2021-09-03 15:26:35 +0200 <ski> (iow, you shouldn't need to declare the `Enum' types that you want to use with `enumVal' and `someEnumVal' as instances of some type class. it should suffice that they're already instances of `Enum')
2021-09-03 15:27:17 +0200chris(~chris@81.96.113.213)
2021-09-03 15:27:20 +0200ubert(~Thunderbi@178.115.65.0.wireless.dyn.drei.com)
2021-09-03 15:27:22 +0200chrisGuest5677
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2021-09-03 15:31:23 +0200wroathe(~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
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2021-09-03 15:31:23 +0200wroathe(~wroathe@user/wroathe)
2021-09-03 15:32:11 +0200 <lortabac> maybe one can avoid a dependency on singletons with some TemplateHaskell
2021-09-03 15:34:43 +0200eggplantade(~Eggplanta@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:38de:e6e9:ea75:8d72)
2021-09-03 15:34:44 +0200 <lortabac> some TH magic that generates the moral equivalent of FromEnum
2021-09-03 15:38:52 +0200eggplantade(~Eggplanta@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:38de:e6e9:ea75:8d72) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2021-09-03 15:41:11 +0200acidjnk_new(~acidjnk@p200300d0c7203082e12fc7ac6d75bf2a.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
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2021-09-03 15:42:52 +0200Pickchea(~private@user/pickchea)
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2021-09-03 15:46:13 +0200jonathanx(~jonathan@dyn-8-sc.cdg.chalmers.se)
2021-09-03 15:48:07 +0200 <hololeap> so, I'm making a Semigroup instance for my sum type with three constructors... 3^2 = 9 different declarations needed. is there any way to ease this and/or automate it?
2021-09-03 15:49:55 +0200sleblanc(~sleblanc@user/sleblanc) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-09-03 15:51:30 +0200 <hololeap> the type closely resembles These: data MinMax = MyMin Min | MyMax Max | MyMinMax Min Max
2021-09-03 15:52:40 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-09-03 15:53:05 +0200 <hololeap> and then you have the various declarations: MyMin n1 <> MyMin n2 = MyMin (n1 <> n2) ; MyMin n <> MyMax x = MyMinMax n x ; MyMin n1 <> MyMinMax n2 x = MyMinMax (n1 <> n2) x
2021-09-03 15:53:58 +0200 <hololeap> so, everything sort of "gravitates" towards MyMinMax... I'm not sure if this makes it a "monotonic type" or whatever it's called
2021-09-03 15:54:01 +0200yangby(~secret@115.199.101.158)
2021-09-03 15:54:44 +0200 <hololeap> *"gravitates" towards the _constructor_ MyMinMax
2021-09-03 15:55:10 +0200wonko(~wjc@62.115.229.50)
2021-09-03 15:57:18 +0200jonatan(~nate@h85-8-60-194.cust.a3fiber.se)
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2021-09-03 15:57:50 +0200rekahsoft(~rekahsoft@cpe0008a20f982f-cm64777d666260.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)
2021-09-03 15:57:56 +0200 <jippiedoe> jumper149: It sounds a lot like something Singletons could do, but I don't have experience with the actual library to tell you how :)
2021-09-03 15:59:00 +0200wroathe(~wroathe@user/wroathe) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2021-09-03 15:59:12 +0200 <jumper149> hololeap: If it's a common pattern `DerivingVia` can be useful.
2021-09-03 15:59:28 +0200shriekingnoise(~shrieking@186.137.144.80)
2021-09-03 16:00:02 +0200slavaqq(~slavaqq@sdmail.sdserver.cz) (Quit: Client closed)
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2021-09-03 16:02:27 +0200MQ-17J(~MQ-17J@d14-69-206-129.try.wideopenwest.com)
2021-09-03 16:02:33 +0200 <hololeap> jumper149: yeah, although I'm not sure what pattern this would be. it definitely looks like it would be a common pattern
2021-09-03 16:02:44 +0200 <hololeap> sadly there is no semigroup instance for These
2021-09-03 16:04:11 +0200vs^(~vs@wsip-98-188-244-188.mc.at.cox.net)
2021-09-03 16:05:12 +0200 <jumper149> Does this work? https://hackage.haskell.org/package/these
2021-09-03 16:05:19 +0200 <jumper149> Didn't check the instance though
2021-09-03 16:05:46 +0200 <jumper149> oh... I just see
2021-09-03 16:05:54 +0200 <jumper149> You already know about it x)
2021-09-03 16:07:02 +0200MQ-17J(~MQ-17J@d14-69-206-129.try.wideopenwest.com) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
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2021-09-03 16:08:37 +0200Sgeo(~Sgeo@user/sgeo)
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2021-09-03 16:15:44 +0200wroathe(~wroathe@user/wroathe)
2021-09-03 16:15:49 +0200 <kuribas> hololeap: toMinMax MyMin n = MyMinMax n mempty, etc...
2021-09-03 16:16:20 +0200acidjnk_new(~acidjnk@p200300d0c7203082e12fc7ac6d75bf2a.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2021-09-03 16:16:41 +0200yangby(~secret@115.199.101.158) (Quit: Go out for a walk and buy a drink.)
2021-09-03 16:16:45 +0200 <hololeap> kuribas: there is no Monoid instance for Min or Max :p
2021-09-03 16:16:52 +0200 <kuribas> oh...
2021-09-03 16:16:56 +0200 <hololeap> yeah
2021-09-03 16:17:07 +0200 <kuribas> hololeap: 9 isn't so bad though...
2021-09-03 16:17:19 +0200 <hololeap> fair enough... xp
2021-09-03 16:17:36 +0200deejaytee(~deejaytee@cpc91196-cmbg18-2-0-cust215.5-4.cable.virginm.net) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2021-09-03 16:18:01 +0200 <ski> > case someNatVal 3 of Nothing -> 42; Just (SomeNat p) -> natVal p
2021-09-03 16:18:02 +0200 <lambdabot> 3
2021-09-03 16:18:06 +0200 <ski> > case someNatVal (-1) of Nothing -> 42; Just (SomeNat p) -> natVal p
2021-09-03 16:18:08 +0200 <lambdabot> 42
2021-09-03 16:18:19 +0200max22-(~maxime@2a01cb0883359800fe0ea54f1b68cc60.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2021-09-03 16:18:21 +0200 <ski> @let newtype EnumType a = ET Nat
2021-09-03 16:18:22 +0200 <lambdabot> Defined.
2021-09-03 16:18:34 +0200 <ski> @let class Enum a => KnownEnum a e where enumVal :: proxy e -> a
2021-09-03 16:18:36 +0200 <lambdabot> Defined.
2021-09-03 16:18:50 +0200 <ski> @let instance (Enum a,KnownNat n) => KnownEnum a (ET n :: EnumType a) where enumVal (pn :: proxy (ET n)) = toEnum (fromIntegral (natVal (Proxy :: Proxy n) + fromIntegral (minBound :: Int)))
2021-09-03 16:18:51 +0200 <lambdabot> Defined.
2021-09-03 16:18:59 +0200 <ski> @let data SomeEnum a = forall e. KnownEnum a e => WrapEnum (Proxy e)
2021-09-03 16:19:01 +0200 <lambdabot> Defined.
2021-09-03 16:19:11 +0200 <ski> @let someEnumVal :: forall a. Enum a => a -> SomeEnum a; someEnumVal x = case someNatVal (fromIntegral (fromEnum x) - fromIntegral (minBound :: Int)) of Just (SomeNat (Proxy :: Proxy n)) -> WrapEnum (Proxy :: Proxy (ET n :: EnumType a))
2021-09-03 16:19:12 +0200 <lambdabot> Defined.
2021-09-03 16:19:21 +0200 <ski> @let data X = A | B | C deriving (Show,Enum)
2021-09-03 16:19:23 +0200 <lambdabot> Defined.
2021-09-03 16:19:29 +0200 <ski> > case someEnumVal B of WrapEnum pe -> enumVal pe :: X
2021-09-03 16:19:30 +0200 <lambdabot> B
2021-09-03 16:19:40 +0200MQ-17J(~MQ-17J@d14-69-206-129.try.wideopenwest.com) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2021-09-03 16:19:41 +0200 <kuribas> hololeap: convert to (Maybe a, Maybe b)?
2021-09-03 16:19:51 +0200 <ski> jumper149,lortabac,int-e ^
2021-09-03 16:20:11 +0200wroathe(~wroathe@user/wroathe) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2021-09-03 16:20:41 +0200 <int-e> ski: uh, can you put that into a pastebin
2021-09-03 16:20:52 +0200 <ski> (don't export `EnumType',`ET'. if you want to, also don't export `enumVal', *as* a member of `KnownNat'. (it should still be exported as a function))
2021-09-03 16:20:53 +0200 <hololeap> kuribas: I thought of this, but it doesn't preclude (Nothing, Nothing), which isn't a possibility, so I would have to have have: (Nothing, Nothing) -> error "Can't happen"
2021-09-03 16:21:15 +0200 <kuribas> hololeap: well, if it can't happen, it can't happen :)
2021-09-03 16:22:03 +0200 <hololeap> It ends up being more than 9 lines of code anyway with that approach, so whatever... I'll just stick to enumerating them by hand
2021-09-03 16:22:19 +0200 <kuribas> hololeap: it's less error prone...
2021-09-03 16:22:43 +0200 <kuribas> but yeah, not that big of a deal..
2021-09-03 16:23:20 +0200 <hololeap> hm, no I think that with the "Pattern match(es) are non-exhaustive" warning and the type system doing its thing, there isn't actually any room for error here, but IDK
2021-09-03 16:24:49 +0200 <kuribas> well: MinMax n1 m <> Min n2 = MinMax n1 m
2021-09-03 16:25:39 +0200 <hololeap> oh, that is true
2021-09-03 16:26:35 +0200burnsidesLlama(~burnsides@dhcp168-019.wadham.ox.ac.uk)
2021-09-03 16:27:19 +0200 <int-e> :t someNatVal
2021-09-03 16:27:20 +0200 <lambdabot> Integer -> Maybe SomeNat
2021-09-03 16:27:39 +0200 <hololeap> http://sprunge.us/MgQpvG (just for reference)
2021-09-03 16:28:01 +0200burnsidesLlama(~burnsides@dhcp168-019.wadham.ox.ac.uk) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-09-03 16:28:15 +0200 <int-e> damn, where is that from...
2021-09-03 16:28:56 +0200 <hololeap> ?
2021-09-03 16:28:58 +0200 <int-e> GHC.TypeLits, not GHC.TypeNats. Meh.
2021-09-03 16:29:32 +0200wroathe(~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
2021-09-03 16:29:32 +0200wroathe(~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) (Changing host)
2021-09-03 16:29:32 +0200wroathe(~wroathe@user/wroathe)
2021-09-03 16:29:33 +0200 <lortabac> it's in both
2021-09-03 16:29:53 +0200 <int-e> :t GHC.TypeNats.someNatVal
2021-09-03 16:29:54 +0200 <lambdabot> GHC.Natural.Natural -> SomeNat
2021-09-03 16:30:02 +0200 <int-e> lortabac: not really
2021-09-03 16:30:11 +0200burnsidesLlama(~burnsides@dhcp168-019.wadham.ox.ac.uk)
2021-09-03 16:30:30 +0200deejaytee(~deejaytee@cpc91196-cmbg18-2-0-cust215.5-4.cable.virginm.net)
2021-09-03 16:31:28 +0200 <lortabac> it's confusing, the one in GHC.TypeLits accepts Integers
2021-09-03 16:31:36 +0200vicfred(~vicfred@user/vicfred)
2021-09-03 16:31:41 +0200 <lortabac> they should have used a different name
2021-09-03 16:31:46 +0200 <int-e> lortabac: yes, hence my annoyance
2021-09-03 16:32:34 +0200aliosablack(~chomwitt@ppp-94-69-12-184.home.otenet.gr)
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2021-09-03 16:35:53 +0200 <int-e> ski: that's kind of cheating though, isn't it?
2021-09-03 16:37:47 +0200 <int-e> ski: see the `test'` attempt in https://paste.tomsmeding.com/3WleQYYc ...I thought something like that was what jumper149 wanted.
2021-09-03 16:38:40 +0200 <int-e> And that's what made me reach for additional type families.
2021-09-03 16:38:49 +0200enick_877(~matrixbot@130.44.141.131)
2021-09-03 16:39:17 +0200stites[m]1(~stitescoc@130.44.141.131)
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2021-09-03 16:45:43 +0200enick_902(~matrixbot@130.44.141.131)
2021-09-03 16:46:31 +0200 <ski> int-e : <https://paste.tomsmeding.com/VOHU1gWT>
2021-09-03 16:46:45 +0200zebrag(~chris@user/zebrag)
2021-09-03 16:47:37 +0200TranquilEcho(~grom@user/tranquilecho)
2021-09-03 16:49:15 +0200 <int-e> ski: thanks... though I was too impatient
2021-09-03 16:50:36 +0200mc47(~mc47@xmonad/TheMC47) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-09-03 16:51:13 +0200 <ski> int-e, ah, yes, that would require some way of lifting the type `a' (where `Enum a') into a kind, so that `a's values would correspond to types of that kind, and then you would want to pass those types to `Proxy', passing that to some other version of `enumVal'
2021-09-03 16:52:32 +0200 <int-e> it would need some serious support to make convenient... probably a bit of Template Haskell to fill in the type family values.
2021-09-03 16:52:38 +0200 <int-e> (hah, family values...)
2021-09-03 16:52:42 +0200 <ski> it wasn't clear to me whether jumper149 wanted something like this, or only the more basic, "abstract", functionality, being able to use `someEnumVal', and then back through `enumVal'. (rather, i only considered the latter functionality)
2021-09-03 16:53:11 +0200myShoggoth(~myShoggot@97-120-70-214.ptld.qwest.net)
2021-09-03 16:53:16 +0200 <int-e> ski: I agree that it's unclear. Maybe reflection support (which is what you have) is enough.
2021-09-03 16:53:35 +0200 <int-e> (pet peeve: reify/reflect are named the wrong way)
2021-09-03 16:54:29 +0200 <ski> (hm, i suppose that's true. hadn't noticed that before)
2021-09-03 16:54:56 +0200 <int-e> (also completely tangential and not really important. But to my mind, values are more concrete than types. So types should be the reflections of values, not vice versa, but the literature thinks otherwise.)
2021-09-03 16:56:09 +0200 <ski> (can you give an example of how/where the literature thinks otherwise ? (not particularly looking for a specific source, but rather in which sense the literature thinks values are reflections of types, in this context))
2021-09-03 16:56:16 +0200 <hololeap> oh, there actually _is_ a semigroup instance for These that mirrors what I was trying to do... nice. I was looking at These1 for some reason
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2021-09-03 16:56:33 +0200stites(~stitescoc@130.44.141.131)
2021-09-03 16:57:30 +0200 <int-e> ski: Hrm, I ought to be able to find papers on this if pressed, but maybe this is sufficient evidence? https://hackage.haskell.org/package/reflection-2.1.6/docs/Data-Reflection.html#v:reflect
2021-09-03 16:59:11 +0200 <jumper149> Like int-e was guessing correctly I wanted something I can easily use with Proxy. I'm not too sure, why it doesnt work though.
2021-09-03 16:59:26 +0200 <ski> hm, ok. i was thinking perhaps there was some kind of rationale or analogy that you knew off-hand, that could explain why the present use of `reify' vs. `reflect' was chosen
2021-09-03 16:59:55 +0200 <ski> (i already quickly looked up those operations, to confirm your observation)
2021-09-03 17:00:25 +0200[itchyjunk](~itchyjunk@user/itchyjunk/x-7353470) (Quit: Leaving)
2021-09-03 17:01:16 +0200 <ski> hm, perhaps one reason might be that, a use of that `reflect' typically occurs (dynamically) inside a use of `reify', which i guess is also the pattern with say monadic reflection (how about other cases of reification/reflection ?)
2021-09-03 17:01:45 +0200lortabac(~lortabac@2a01:e0a:541:b8f0:5028:d3a0:f64f:ec15) (Quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2021-09-03 17:01:51 +0200 <ski> jumper149 : see my paste above, and see if that suffices for what you want to do ?
2021-09-03 17:01:58 +0200mjs2600(~mjs2600@c-24-91-3-49.hsd1.vt.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-09-03 17:02:14 +0200 <ski> (also see my example with lambdabot, using your `data X = A | B | C', further up)
2021-09-03 17:02:31 +0200wroathe(~wroathe@user/wroathe) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-09-03 17:02:49 +0200 <ski> ("something I can easily use with Proxy" is unclear to me)
2021-09-03 17:03:01 +0200 <c_wraith> So... Do pi types totally subsume reify/reflect?
2021-09-03 17:03:32 +0200 <EvanR> is this similar to the difference between type classes and just records of functions
2021-09-03 17:03:55 +0200 <EvanR> accomplish the same goal but with different flavor and feel
2021-09-03 17:04:09 +0200 <int-e> ski: I know of no source that dives into etymology.
2021-09-03 17:04:21 +0200skinods
2021-09-03 17:05:05 +0200wroathe(~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
2021-09-03 17:05:05 +0200wroathe(~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) (Changing host)
2021-09-03 17:05:05 +0200wroathe(~wroathe@user/wroathe)
2021-09-03 17:05:16 +0200 <int-e> ski: My own speculation is that it's derived from Java's use of reflection... but in Java, you actually get a weird *description* of types (as values)... whereas we tend to produce values. So... the roles get flipped.
2021-09-03 17:05:21 +0200 <c_wraith> Or even.. not "totally", but "at all"?
2021-09-03 17:05:48 +0200 <int-e> (I expect this predates Java, but I don't know where it came from. Does SmallTalk have reflection?)
2021-09-03 17:07:01 +0200 <ski> hm, iirc, in SmallTalk, classes are objects. to instantiate a new object of a class, you send it the `new' message, or somesuch
2021-09-03 17:07:18 +0200 <ski> (although classes are not identical with types ..)
2021-09-03 17:07:23 +0200 <c_wraith> Like, I have this silly monoid, https://paste.tomsmeding.com/AYZgs8hO , and I'm wondering if anyone knows if pi types in dependent haskell might replace the use of reflection in it
2021-09-03 17:11:54 +0200 <dolio> I think I agree that they're backwards. The value is the 'real' thing, and the type is its reflection. But it's already named backwards in the paper cited as original.
2021-09-03 17:12:05 +0200vysn(~vysn@user/vysn) (Quit: WeeChat 3.2)
2021-09-03 17:12:21 +0200 <dolio> It must be because it's an academic paper, so they think types are more real than values.
2021-09-03 17:12:56 +0200 <ski> "they're backwards" -- who/where ? `Data.Reflection' ? Java reflection ?
2021-09-03 17:13:23 +0200eggplantade(~Eggplanta@108-201-191-115.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
2021-09-03 17:13:25 +0200 <dolio> They're backwards in Data.Reflection, because in that case you are reflecting values in the type system.
2021-09-03 17:13:45 +0200cfricke(~cfricke@user/cfricke) (Quit: WeeChat 3.2)
2021-09-03 17:13:49 +0200 <dolio> They're named correctly in Java because there you're reflecting types as values you can access.
2021-09-03 17:14:52 +0200 <ski> in monadic reflection, you're reifying implicit side-effects (of a particular kind, introduced originally via explicitly defining a monad) into a monadic action, explicitly expressing the effects. and reflection does the opposite, reflects the description of the effects in the action, into actual side-effects
2021-09-03 17:15:01 +0200 <dolio> Even though the same words might be used for the same direction (type->value vs. value->type) in both cases.
2021-09-03 17:15:31 +0200 <ski> (i got that in mind, since i recently revisited Filinski's papers on monadic reflection)
2021-09-03 17:16:18 +0200burnsidesLlama(~burnsides@dhcp168-019.wadham.ox.ac.uk)
2021-09-03 17:16:23 +0200 <ski> anyway, i agree with your "I think I agree that ..."
2021-09-03 17:19:08 +0200 <ski> c_wraith : fun example. i wonder if it could be extended to handle parsing ..
2021-09-03 17:20:16 +0200 <EvanR> at compile time, the types are real and values not xD
2021-09-03 17:20:38 +0200burnsidesLlama(~burnsides@dhcp168-019.wadham.ox.ac.uk) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2021-09-03 17:21:07 +0200 <EvanR> in an advanced type system, you never get around to actually running the completed program
2021-09-03 17:21:10 +0200 <ski> EvanR : hmm .. i'm not sure, but i think the "only one instance of a type for a type class" thing isn't really an issue, in the comparision between the type class based reflection, and pi types
2021-09-03 17:21:31 +0200 <EvanR> it's not?
2021-09-03 17:21:56 +0200 <EvanR> because you can make many instances dynamically?
2021-09-03 17:22:36 +0200elf_fortrez(~elf_fortr@adsl-72-50-7-205.prtc.net)
2021-09-03 17:22:48 +0200 <ski> you don't have multiple distinct instances of `KnownNat n' being threaded around. if it's the same `n', then the instances encode the same `Integer'. if you want a different (non-negative) `Integer', then you get `KnownNat n1' for `n1' distinct from `n'
2021-09-03 17:23:09 +0200 <jumper149> http://ix.io/3xQ9
2021-09-03 17:23:35 +0200 <jumper149> ski: I can' get around defining those instances manually with your module I guess.
2021-09-03 17:24:48 +0200 <jumper149> can't
2021-09-03 17:25:17 +0200 <EvanR> interesting
2021-09-03 17:25:42 +0200 <ski> jumper149 : so you do want to be able to say KnownNat X 'A and not just be able to pass `A' to `someEnumVal' (converting `A' to a constraint that is propagated around implicitly), and later pass a proxy enabling a handle on that constraint back to `enumVal', recovering `A' ?
2021-09-03 17:26:44 +0200 <EvanR> similar to a category whose arrows from A to B represent a relation holding between A and B. Regardless of the number of arrows, the same relation holds
2021-09-03 17:26:47 +0200 <ski> jumper149 : with my module, you'd simply not declare those instances at all. you'd only need `Enum X', and then you're set to go
2021-09-03 17:27:32 +0200 <EvanR> can *that* sort of thing be expressed with pi types...
2021-09-03 17:27:34 +0200 <ski> (but that only enables you to do what i just sketched above. it does not enable you to say something like KnownNat X 'A .. which is what int-e was going for)
2021-09-03 17:28:56 +0200kawpuh(~kawpuh@71-150-122-133.lightspeed.brhmal.sbcglobal.net)
2021-09-03 17:29:23 +0200 <ski> EvanR : hm, can you elaborate on where the multiplicity of arrows (/instances ?) vs. singularity of them matters here ?
2021-09-03 17:30:00 +0200 <jumper149> ski: I think that is correct. I do kinda have trouble to wrap my head around, what your module _can_ do.
2021-09-03 17:30:26 +0200 <ski> > case someEnumVal B of WrapEnum pe -> enumVal pe :: X
2021-09-03 17:30:28 +0200 <lambdabot> B
2021-09-03 17:30:33 +0200 <EvanR> can you set up a pi type which represents something like, if you can implement this pi type at all, that is the interesting bit
2021-09-03 17:31:12 +0200 <EvanR> a possble type vs impossible type
2021-09-03 17:31:26 +0200xstill(~xstill@fimu/xstill) (Quit: ZNC - https://znc.in)
2021-09-03 17:31:55 +0200 <EvanR> i know sigma can do this
2021-09-03 17:32:41 +0200slowButPresent(~slowButPr@user/slowbutpresent)
2021-09-03 17:32:54 +0200 <ski> you can pass a value of your type `X' to `someEnumVal'. you'll get back a constraint `KnownEnum X x' (packaged inside `WrapEnum'), for an unknown type variable `x' (which represents the value of type `X' you passed to `someEnumVal'). now you can let this `KnownEnum X x' constraint be propagated implicitly to other operations you call, until you want to "grab the `X' value associated with `x' out of thin air"
2021-09-03 17:33:00 +0200 <ski> again, by passing a proxy for `x' to `enumVal'
2021-09-03 17:33:03 +0200 <ski> jumper149 ^
2021-09-03 17:33:37 +0200 <int-e> jumper149, ski: What I had in mind was this https://paste.tomsmeding.com/fx6ODlf4 (it doesn't cover the reflection use case)
2021-09-03 17:34:34 +0200 <int-e> ...not sure why I defined enumVal after X...
2021-09-03 17:37:08 +0200 <int-e> But yes, it does suffer from having to define a type instance for every constructor of interest. Oh and there's nothing that ensures consistency of FromEnum and fromEnum.
2021-09-03 17:37:09 +0200xstill(~xstill@gate.vstill.cz)
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2021-09-03 17:38:30 +0200 <ski> EvanR : how can sigma do this (whatever "this" is. answering might help me understand what your desired "this" is about) ?
2021-09-03 17:38:31 +0200eggplantade(~Eggplanta@108-201-191-115.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2021-09-03 17:39:03 +0200 <EvanR> sigma x . x < 0 sort of type
2021-09-03 17:39:11 +0200Feuermagier(~Feuermagi@user/feuermagier)
2021-09-03 17:39:14 +0200 <EvanR> no examples
2021-09-03 17:39:19 +0200 <ski> for `x' a natural ?
2021-09-03 17:39:22 +0200 <EvanR> yeah
2021-09-03 17:39:23 +0200phma(~phma@host-67-44-208-165.hnremote.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-09-03 17:39:37 +0200 <ski> so an uninhabitated type
2021-09-03 17:39:53 +0200 <jumper149> ski: Ok, I get it now. As long as I'm behind the case `WrapEnum pe ->` I can get `pe` from type level to value level.
2021-09-03 17:39:59 +0200MoC(~moc@user/moc) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2021-09-03 17:40:42 +0200 <ski> `pi x :: t. u[x]' is only uninhabited, in case `t' isn't (there is some `v' in it), while `u[v]' is uninhabited
2021-09-03 17:40:44 +0200phma(~phma@host-67-44-208-28.hnremote.net)
2021-09-03 17:41:05 +0200 <ski> (i'm still unsure if this is what you're asking about)
2021-09-03 17:41:21 +0200chisui(~chisui@200116b8681f270090a84dee76546807.dip.versatel-1u1.de)
2021-09-03 17:41:28 +0200 <EvanR> doh ... right. It's been a while
2021-09-03 17:41:46 +0200 <jumper149> int-e: Your example is closer to what I had in mind too.
2021-09-03 17:42:02 +0200jess(~jess@libera/staff/jess)
2021-09-03 17:42:04 +0200 <ski> jumper149 : yes. also, if you call some other operations from "behind the case", then that operation can also get back the value in `X' from `KnownEnum X x', as long as that operation has such a constraint
2021-09-03 17:42:28 +0200Pickchea(~private@user/pickchea) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2021-09-03 17:43:36 +0200nschoe(~quassel@178.251.84.79) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2021-09-03 17:43:39 +0200 <ski> (iow, you don't have to put the `enumVal' call syntactically inside the `case' branch. it can be inside the definition of some operation called (perhaps indirectly, in multiple steps) from that branch)
2021-09-03 17:44:17 +0200 <jumper149> ski: Ok thank you! That really cleared it up for me.
2021-09-03 17:45:18 +0200 <ski> so, it seems that the only thing my version doesn't give you, out of what's been discussed, is to be able to say things like KnownEnum X 'A or enumVal (Proxy :: Proxy 'A)
2021-09-03 17:47:26 +0200 <ski> iow, you can't explicitly write your `X' values in the types. but you still can convert a value of type `X' into a corresponding type variable `x' (using `someEnumVal'), together with constraint `KnownEnum X x', and then later, possibly elsewhere (as long as the constraint is propagated there) get back the original value of type `X' (by using `enumVal' on a `Proxy x')
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2021-09-03 18:47:18 +0200aegon(~mike@174.127.249.180)
2021-09-03 18:48:27 +0200 <aegon> i'm confused by the interweb reports. seems most places claim that when transporting ascii over the network you don't have to worry about big vs little endian because its a 1 byte encoding but wouldn't it still matter for each bit or are the bits allways in the same arrangement
2021-09-03 18:50:47 +0200fendor(~fendor@91.141.58.223.wireless.dyn.drei.com)
2021-09-03 18:51:57 +0200 <aegon> nvm did more looking
2021-09-03 18:52:52 +0200 <int-e> You don't have to worry. People working on the physical level (network adapters) do the worrying for you...
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2021-09-03 18:54:26 +0200jakalx(~jakalx@base.jakalx.net)
2021-09-03 18:54:53 +0200 <maerwald> just keep those bytes coming
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2021-09-03 19:38:06 +0200 <aegon> oh, cool to now that is a thing just at the network adapter level. I keep running into this same pattern in my code that is awkword to deal with and i'm wondering how to clean it up https://paste.tomsmeding.com/L2F0BKBk
2021-09-03 19:39:37 +0200vysn(~vysn@user/vysn)
2021-09-03 19:41:41 +0200gehmehgeh(~user@user/gehmehgeh) (Quit: Leaving)
2021-09-03 19:41:53 +0200 <maerwald> aegon: MaybeT
2021-09-03 19:45:08 +0200awpr(uid446117@id-446117.tooting.irccloud.com)
2021-09-03 19:47:35 +0200 <aegon> maerwald: so add something like MonadFail to the outer monad, but the failure only makes sense in these little blocks, application wide failure on the outer monad would be a bug. should i be doing a runMaybeT for each of these blocks?
2021-09-03 19:47:53 +0200raehik(~raehik@cpc95906-rdng25-2-0-cust156.15-3.cable.virginm.net) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2021-09-03 19:48:11 +0200 <maerwald> no, you use `MaybeT m a` and then have one runMaybeT before the do
2021-09-03 19:48:27 +0200 <awpr> I've got some newly-uploaded packages on Hackage failing CI on GHC versions they don't intend to support (missing extensions, etc.) -- what's the recommended way to exclude them? tweaking the base dependency to indirectly require a new enough compiler? some Cabal config that constrains the GHC version?
2021-09-03 19:48:53 +0200 <aegon> i see, oo, is maybeT a MonadFail instance? that would be pretty slick
2021-09-03 19:49:06 +0200alx741(~alx741@186.178.109.154) (Quit: alx741)
2021-09-03 19:49:08 +0200 <aegon> oh it is
2021-09-03 19:49:10 +0200 <aegon> :D
2021-09-03 19:49:15 +0200 <maerwald> aegon: it might not do what you think it does
2021-09-03 19:50:00 +0200raehik(~raehik@cpc95906-rdng25-2-0-cust156.15-3.cable.virginm.net)
2021-09-03 19:50:04 +0200 <aegon> maerwald: i think it allows me to write my failure code in terms of monadFail then decide between either / maybe / whatever at the call site. I might be wrong on that though, I havent used anything around MonadFail yet
2021-09-03 19:50:20 +0200 <maerwald> `fail _ = MaybeT (return Nothing)`
2021-09-03 19:50:37 +0200hannessteffenhag(~hannesste@ip4d14ffee.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de)
2021-09-03 19:51:12 +0200 <aegon> yeah but if then if i wanted the string value i could use EitherT right?
2021-09-03 19:51:54 +0200Erutuon(~Erutuon@user/erutuon)
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2021-09-03 19:52:51 +0200 <maerwald> MonadFail for ExceptT runs the fail for the inner monad I think
2021-09-03 19:52:57 +0200MQ-17J(~MQ-17J@d14-69-206-129.try.wideopenwest.com)
2021-09-03 19:53:10 +0200 <maerwald> so if you have `ExceptT e IO a` fail will raise an IO exception
2021-09-03 19:54:06 +0200 <aegon> darn, that isn't what i expected :X
2021-09-03 19:54:39 +0200 <maerwald> https://paste.tomsmeding.com/hr1X1HN0
2021-09-03 19:54:46 +0200 <maerwald> yeah, so MonadFail isn't a great API
2021-09-03 19:54:56 +0200 <maerwald> it's useful for "dunno what to do"
2021-09-03 19:55:07 +0200hannessteffenhag(~hannesste@ip4d14ffee.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2021-09-03 19:56:46 +0200 <monochrom> You should not trust your guess of what "fail" in "Monadfail" means.
2021-09-03 19:57:58 +0200 <monochrom> The correct meaning is that if you have a refutable pattern in do-notation, "x:xs <- getLine", then the MonadFail method is used for pattern mismatch.
2021-09-03 19:58:04 +0200 <maerwald> transformers often have non-intuitive API
2021-09-03 19:59:32 +0200 <monochrom> Very quickly you realize that different instances should handle it differently, hell oppositely.
2021-09-03 20:00:12 +0200nurupo(~nurupo.ga@user/nurupo) (Quit: nurupo.ga)
2021-09-03 20:00:26 +0200nurupo(~nurupo.ga@user/nurupo)
2021-09-03 20:00:32 +0200geekosaur(~geekosaur@xmonad/geekosaur)
2021-09-03 20:01:24 +0200 <maerwald> MonadThrow also propagates to the inner monad very often
2021-09-03 20:01:29 +0200 <monochrom> The other thing you realize is that "fail" does not mean some kind of user-defined notion of "failure".
2021-09-03 20:01:51 +0200eggplantade(~Eggplanta@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:a1c6:3309:167f:5bb1) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-09-03 20:03:32 +0200goepsilongo(~chacho@2603-7000-ab00-62ed-0000-0000-0000-0bd0.res6.spectrum.com)
2021-09-03 20:03:35 +0200 <aegon> wierd, that makes sense though. I need to get a better feel for exception handling, from my experience with it so far my feelings are that I never want code to throw exceptions, only thing i've worked with that excepts (outside of IO errors) is httpclient
2021-09-03 20:04:04 +0200 <aegon> but maybe ErrorT is what i want if I wnat to use either in a transformer stack that will short circuit on Left's
2021-09-03 20:04:13 +0200 <monochrom> Writers who limit themselves to "simple English" most-popular 5000-word vocab meet readers who are in a delusion that such bland words mean anything at all.
2021-09-03 20:04:46 +0200slep(~slep@cpc150002-brnt4-2-0-cust437.4-2.cable.virginm.net)
2021-09-03 20:07:37 +0200 <maerwald> I don't think it's easy to get a *feel* for exception handling
2021-09-03 20:07:46 +0200 <maerwald> but you can develop a strong paranoia
2021-09-03 20:08:03 +0200 <sclv> awpr: yeah you want to set base constraints to exclude ghcs you don't want. https://wiki.haskell.org/Base_package
2021-09-03 20:08:07 +0200 <maerwald> that guides you through your memories of past horrors
2021-09-03 20:09:28 +0200 <awpr> sclv: that seems a bit less than satisfying since base isn't properly what provides the functionality it depends on, but indeed it ought to work. if there's not a "more correct" way, I'll go with that.
2021-09-03 20:09:50 +0200 <awpr> sclv: thanks for confirming that's a common way to approach it
2021-09-03 20:09:50 +0200 <sclv> its the standard way
2021-09-03 20:09:57 +0200 <maerwald> aegon: https://www.fpcomplete.com/haskell/tutorial/exceptions/
2021-09-03 20:10:35 +0200myShoggoth(~myShoggot@97-120-70-214.ptld.qwest.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-09-03 20:10:37 +0200ArctVaulMarsHMPJ(~pjetcetal@128-71-152-79.broadband.corbina.ru) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-09-03 20:10:43 +0200 <awpr> re exceptions, reading Michael Snoyman's writings on exceptions over the past few years is a great way to cultivate the appropriate level of abject horror
2021-09-03 20:10:52 +0200myShoggoth(~myShoggot@97-120-70-214.ptld.qwest.net)
2021-09-03 20:12:02 +0200 <awpr> IIRC a recent-ish article concluded that it's actually impossible to be async-exception-safe in certain important contexts, or something similarly concerning
2021-09-03 20:13:55 +0200MQ-17J(~MQ-17J@d14-69-206-129.try.wideopenwest.com) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
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2021-09-03 20:14:18 +0200nfd(~nfd@c-73-83-2-237.hsd1.wa.comcast.net)
2021-09-03 20:14:32 +0200kosmikus(~kosmikus@nullzig.kosmikus.org) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-09-03 20:14:42 +0200 <sclv> i disagree with all that
2021-09-03 20:14:45 +0200kosmikus(~kosmikus@nullzig.kosmikus.org)
2021-09-03 20:14:50 +0200 <sclv> async exceptions are fine when used for the purpose designed
2021-09-03 20:15:13 +0200 <sclv> i don't know why everybody gets mad at the
2021-09-03 20:15:14 +0200 <sclv> them
2021-09-03 20:17:14 +0200 <maerwald> Snoymans arguments against `ExceptT e IO` are confusing at best. And MonadThrow isn't that great either
2021-09-03 20:18:28 +0200aplainze1akind(~johndoe@captainludd.powered.by.lunarbnc.net)
2021-09-03 20:19:40 +0200alzgh(~alzgh@user/alzgh)
2021-09-03 20:19:53 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
2021-09-03 20:21:06 +0200lambdap(~lambdap@static.167.190.119.168.clients.your-server.de) (Quit: Ping timeout (120 seconds))
2021-09-03 20:21:21 +0200lambdap(~lambdap@static.167.190.119.168.clients.your-server.de)
2021-09-03 20:21:37 +0200aplainzetakind(~johndoe@captainludd.powered.by.lunarbnc.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-09-03 20:21:51 +0200stiell(~stiell@gateway/tor-sasl/stiell) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2021-09-03 20:21:51 +0200bitdex(~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2021-09-03 20:22:11 +0200 <maerwald> I'm still a `Excepts` user... not a firm believer, but in lack of better alternatives
2021-09-03 20:22:30 +0200hendursaga(~weechat@user/hendursaga) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2021-09-03 20:22:30 +0200hololeap(~hololeap@user/hololeap) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2021-09-03 20:22:32 +0200 <aegon> maerwald: bookmarked'd for the weekend
2021-09-03 20:23:05 +0200 <awpr> my recollection of the details is pretty fuzzy, and I can't seem to find the article. it might have been a much more limited scope, like some particular issue in safe-exceptions or unliftio that can't be solved properly. I do agree async-exception safety seems to be okay in my own experience if you stick to bracket/finally/etc. or think _really_ hard about the masking situation
2021-09-03 20:23:20 +0200 <alzgh> hello, I sent a question in #haskell-beginners a few hours ago. If anyone can help, really appreciate it. Thanks.
2021-09-03 20:23:22 +0200noctuks(FtRbHWeJFU@user/noctux) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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2021-09-03 20:24:44 +0200cjay-(cjay@nerdbox.nerd2nerd.org) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-09-03 20:25:06 +0200cjay(cjay@nerdbox.nerd2nerd.org)
2021-09-03 20:25:11 +0200 <maerwald> awpr: yeah, there was a debate about safe-exceptions and not everyone agrees
2021-09-03 20:25:36 +0200 <maerwald> it boils down to "what happens if your handler has a bug" afair
2021-09-03 20:25:39 +0200MQ-17J(~MQ-17J@d14-69-206-129.try.wideopenwest.com)
2021-09-03 20:26:38 +0200max22-(~maxime@2a01cb0883359800fe0ea54f1b68cc60.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-09-03 20:26:47 +0200eggplantade(~Eggplanta@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:a1c6:3309:167f:5bb1)
2021-09-03 20:28:46 +0200stiell(~stiell@gateway/tor-sasl/stiell)
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2021-09-03 20:33:17 +0200lavaman(~lavaman@98.38.249.169) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-09-03 20:33:23 +0200 <alzgh> 'm trying to set the prompt in stack ghci. I added 'set prompt "λ> "' (also with a colon at the beginning) to both ~/.ghci and ~/ghc/.ghci and none worked for me. I also started stack ghci from both folders and it didn't have any effect. Looking online I alsofound references to yaml file and was not sure if they are
2021-09-03 20:33:25 +0200 <alzgh> for packaging only or have effects on the REPL too.
2021-09-03 20:35:32 +0200theproffesor(~theproffe@2601:282:847f:8010::bd6d)
2021-09-03 20:35:32 +0200theproffesor(~theproffe@2601:282:847f:8010::bd6d) (Changing host)
2021-09-03 20:35:32 +0200theproffesor(~theproffe@user/theproffesor)
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2021-09-03 20:39:24 +0200Everything(~Everythin@37.115.210.35)
2021-09-03 20:39:45 +0200theproffesor(~theproffe@user/theproffesor) ()
2021-09-03 20:39:46 +0200 <alzgh> sorry, I have to leave. Would've waited for an answer but can only connect through a vpn and need to disconnect it rn.
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2021-09-03 20:47:52 +0200burnsidesLlama(~burnsides@dhcp168-019.wadham.ox.ac.uk)
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2021-09-03 20:50:05 +0200nfd(~nfd@user/nfd)
2021-09-03 20:51:48 +0200 <maerwald> I want an infix operator to combine `ToString a => a -> a -> a`, I'm too uncreative to come up with one, most <x> are already taken
2021-09-03 20:54:04 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-09-03 20:54:10 +0200vs^(~vs@wsip-98-188-244-188.mc.at.cox.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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2021-09-03 20:58:12 +0200 <maerwald> `(<#>) :: (ToString s1, ToString s2) => s1 -> s2 -> String` looks ok
2021-09-03 21:00:07 +0200notzmv(~zmv@user/notzmv) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
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2021-09-03 21:07:52 +0200gehmehgeh(~user@user/gehmehgeh)
2021-09-03 21:11:47 +0200kenran(~kenran@200116b82b4ba500eab1ecf6a48465f7.dip.versatel-1u1.de)
2021-09-03 21:13:44 +0200vs^(~vs@wsip-98-188-244-188.mc.at.cox.net)
2021-09-03 21:14:01 +0200 <tomsmeding> s/ToString/IsString/?
2021-09-03 21:14:06 +0200 <maerwald> no
2021-09-03 21:15:05 +0200 <tomsmeding> oh some show-but-different class? then your a -> a -> a is not going to work :p
2021-09-03 21:15:38 +0200 <maerwald> see above
2021-09-03 21:15:50 +0200mikoto-chan(~mikoto-ch@ip-83-134-2-136.dsl.scarlet.be)
2021-09-03 21:15:56 +0200mikoto-chan(~mikoto-ch@ip-83-134-2-136.dsl.scarlet.be) (Client Quit)
2021-09-03 21:16:11 +0200mikoto-chan(~mikoto-ch@ip-83-134-2-136.dsl.scarlet.be)
2021-09-03 21:16:41 +0200 <nfd> your second signature looks fine
2021-09-03 21:17:34 +0200 <nfd> your example one probably made at least a third of us go "...that clearly wasn't what you menat"
2021-09-03 21:17:52 +0200 <maerwald> pseudo code
2021-09-03 21:18:05 +0200 <maerwald> guys, we're moving fast here :D
2021-09-03 21:18:36 +0200 <tomsmeding> feels like a very specific operator that isn't very reusable, though, to me
2021-09-03 21:18:39 +0200 <int-e> let's reinvent Text.Pretty for the 101st time
2021-09-03 21:18:48 +0200 <tomsmeding> unless ToString String is id
2021-09-03 21:19:10 +0200 <maerwald> this isn't about pretty
2021-09-03 21:19:14 +0200 <maerwald> it is id
2021-09-03 21:19:30 +0200 <int-e> actually my first thought here was that you'd probably want (<#>) :: ... -> Endo String
2021-09-03 21:19:33 +0200gehmehgeh(~user@user/gehmehgeh) (Quit: Leaving)
2021-09-03 21:19:34 +0200 <tomsmeding> right, then it works well
2021-09-03 21:19:50 +0200 <maerwald> I'm also not asking about the function itself or the class, just operator "name"
2021-09-03 21:19:57 +0200 <tomsmeding> <++>
2021-09-03 21:20:05 +0200 <tomsmeding> ++++++
2021-09-03 21:20:17 +0200 <maerwald> quite javascript-esque, that might work
2021-09-03 21:20:23 +0200lavaman(~lavaman@98.38.249.169)
2021-09-03 21:20:24 +0200 <tomsmeding> "kind of ++"
2021-09-03 21:20:30 +0200 <int-e> tomsmeding: https://wiki.haskell.org/Obfuscation
2021-09-03 21:20:49 +0200enick_913(~matrixbot@130.44.141.131) (Quit: Bridge terminating on SIGTERM)
2021-09-03 21:20:49 +0200stites(~stitescoc@130.44.141.131) (Quit: Bridge terminating on SIGTERM)
2021-09-03 21:21:04 +0200 <tomsmeding> :p
2021-09-03 21:21:04 +0200stites(~stitescoc@130.44.141.131)
2021-09-03 21:21:07 +0200enick_769(~matrixbot@130.44.141.131)
2021-09-03 21:21:09 +0200 <int-e> (sure, it uses ???, but +++ would do the trick too)
2021-09-03 21:21:46 +0200 <maerwald> also, this conflicts really badly with OverloadedStrings :p
2021-09-03 21:24:22 +0200 <tomsmeding> > let (?) = (+) ; (???) = (*) ; (??) = 6 in (??)???(??)?(??)
2021-09-03 21:24:24 +0200 <lambdabot> 42
2021-09-03 21:24:52 +0200lavaman(~lavaman@98.38.249.169) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-09-03 21:25:17 +0200mjs2600(~mjs2600@c-24-91-3-49.hsd1.vt.comcast.net)
2021-09-03 21:25:20 +0200 <tomsmeding> too heavy use of () in that haskell wiki code
2021-09-03 21:25:26 +0200 <tomsmeding> too few infix operators
2021-09-03 21:27:23 +0200 <maerwald> so I also need `(<.#>) :: ToString s => String -> s -> String` and `(<#.>)` to get around the ambiguity errors
2021-09-03 21:27:26 +0200 <monochrom> sclv: I don't get mad at async exceptions! I think Haskell, or GHC, or whatever Simon Marlow did, has made async exceptions good.
2021-09-03 21:27:52 +0200 <maerwald> and all this just so I can avoid T.pack
2021-09-03 21:28:31 +0200 <tomsmeding> perhaps haskell needs to steal c++'s thing where you can define string literal suffixes
2021-09-03 21:28:42 +0200pretty_dumm_guy(trottel@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/prettydummguy/x-88029655) (Quit: WeeChat 3.2)
2021-09-03 21:28:47 +0200 <tomsmeding> where "abc" :: char* but "abc"s :: std::string
2021-09-03 21:28:54 +0200 <monochrom> Async exceptions in C would be too much trouble for the effort, sure. But Haskell doesn't have C's problems.
2021-09-03 21:29:05 +0200 <tomsmeding> banish OverloadedStrings
2021-09-03 21:30:44 +0200 <nfd> haskell still has a few of C's problems, like "it runs on an actual computer"
2021-09-03 21:30:49 +0200 <nfd> ;-;
2021-09-03 21:31:31 +0200 <monochrom> tomsmeding: No no no, C++ should steal Haskell's string literal prefix. pack"abc" >:)
2021-09-03 21:31:41 +0200 <monochrom> > length"abc"
2021-09-03 21:31:42 +0200 <lambdabot> 3
2021-09-03 21:32:36 +0200 <maerwald> I always confine OverloadedStrings to specific modules, but it's still a mess
2021-09-03 21:33:51 +0200 <maerwald> tomsmeding: "abc" for IsStrinng, "abc"s for String, "abc"t for Text etc?
2021-09-03 21:34:03 +0200 <tomsmeding> yes
2021-09-03 21:34:34 +0200 <tomsmeding> (""tom) :: String -> TomString ; (""tom) a = TomString a -- then use "abc"tom
2021-09-03 21:34:43 +0200 <maerwald> that won't be fun to make parse, but yeah
2021-09-03 21:34:49 +0200 <tomsmeding> okay that definition syntax might be crappy
2021-09-03 21:35:10 +0200gehmehgeh(~user@user/gehmehgeh)
2021-09-03 21:35:32 +0200 <tomsmeding> not sure it'll be that bad to parse; the lexer will just have to pick it up
2021-09-03 21:35:44 +0200 <tomsmeding> larger problem is that now spacing matters even _more_
2021-09-03 21:36:09 +0200 <maerwald> It would be an extension, so it's fine
2021-09-03 21:36:10 +0200 <monochrom> This is why my prefix idea is better. It already works today. Here and now.
2021-09-03 21:36:12 +0200 <tomsmeding> c.f. negative literals
2021-09-03 21:36:37 +0200 <monochrom> And it is not so hard to alias t = T.pack
2021-09-03 21:36:52 +0200 <maerwald> uh
2021-09-03 21:36:54 +0200 <tomsmeding> only issue being that now 't' is defined
2021-09-03 21:36:59 +0200 <maerwald> that's gonna give a lot of scoping warnings
2021-09-03 21:37:11 +0200 <monochrom> But to be honest I would prefer text = T.pack
2021-09-03 21:37:34 +0200chisui(~chisui@200116b8681f2700339b8e78de8fcf37.dip.versatel-1u1.de)
2021-09-03 21:37:40 +0200 <monochrom> Because to be honest in C++ I would prefer "abc"string not "abc"s.
2021-09-03 21:37:58 +0200 <monochrom> or at least "abc"str
2021-09-03 21:38:18 +0200 <maerwald> so the real answer is quasi quotes again
2021-09-03 21:38:21 +0200 <maerwald> but they're more typing
2021-09-03 21:38:32 +0200 <monochrom> Right? This "abc"s feature brough to you by people who say that single-letter names are bad.
2021-09-03 21:38:49 +0200 <tomsmeding> and if you allow more typing, you might as well `pack "kaas"` as monochrom suggests :p
2021-09-03 21:38:54 +0200 <maerwald> so we just need shorter syntax for quasi quotes
2021-09-03 21:39:29 +0200 <maerwald> [s|abc|] and [t|abc|] are annoying
2021-09-03 21:39:50 +0200gehmehgeh(~user@user/gehmehgeh) (Client Quit)
2021-09-03 21:40:18 +0200 <monochrom> Just define a control-meta-shift-[ macro to enter [|] for you.
2021-09-03 21:40:53 +0200 <maerwald> I'm already suffering from joint inflammation, if I do emacs stuff now it's gonna get worse :D
2021-09-03 21:41:10 +0200 <monochrom> In fact I set a ctrl-x " macro to enter “” for me.
2021-09-03 21:41:21 +0200 <maerwald> wait, there's a snippet plugin that works with auto completer
2021-09-03 21:41:23 +0200burnsidesLlama(~burnsides@dhcp168-019.wadham.ox.ac.uk) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-09-03 21:41:34 +0200 <maerwald> e.g. you type `s` and it would suggest the macro
2021-09-03 21:41:58 +0200burnsidesLlama(~burnsides@dhcp168-019.wadham.ox.ac.uk)
2021-09-03 21:42:00 +0200 <monochrom> Ah yeah snippets work too. I used to set up xml snippets in gedit.
2021-09-03 21:42:36 +0200 <maerwald> https://github.com/Shougo/deoppet.nvim
2021-09-03 21:42:40 +0200xerox(~edi@user/edi) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-09-03 21:42:45 +0200hpc(~juzz@ip98-169-35-13.dc.dc.cox.net) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2021-09-03 21:43:06 +0200chexum(~quassel@gateway/tor-sasl/chexum) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2021-09-03 21:43:07 +0200chexum_(~quassel@gateway/tor-sasl/chexum)
2021-09-03 21:43:41 +0200 <monochrom> I have another great idea.
2021-09-03 21:43:51 +0200xerox(~edi@user/edi)
2021-09-03 21:43:58 +0200 <monochrom> Dedicate a module to all string literals.
2021-09-03 21:44:21 +0200myShoggoth(~myShoggot@97-120-70-214.ptld.qwest.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-09-03 21:44:24 +0200 <tomsmeding> I'm writing haskell, not assembly
2021-09-03 21:44:32 +0200 <monochrom> It can have OverloadedStrings safely because it has nothing but string literals that need implicit T.pack (for example).
2021-09-03 21:44:37 +0200myShoggoth(~myShoggot@97-120-70-214.ptld.qwest.net)
2021-09-03 21:44:53 +0200 <monochrom> The other benefit is that it is easy to internationalize.
2021-09-03 21:45:20 +0200 <maerwald> str1, str2, str3, ...
2021-09-03 21:45:25 +0200 <monochrom> Write an alternative for the Chinese language, use backpack and mixin etc to select Chinese or English. >:)
2021-09-03 21:46:10 +0200burnsidesLlama(~burnsides@dhcp168-019.wadham.ox.ac.uk) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-09-03 21:46:35 +0200 <tomsmeding> so need to recompile to select a different language?
2021-09-03 21:46:43 +0200 <maerwald> I think I'm just gonna kill OverloadedStrings
2021-09-03 21:48:34 +0200 <monochrom> xmonad users are already fine with recompiling to, say, just change one keybinding. So yeah. >:)
2021-09-03 21:48:57 +0200tomsmedingthought xmonad could load a new xmonad.hs at runtime
2021-09-03 21:49:19 +0200hpc(~juzz@ip98-169-35-13.dc.dc.cox.net)
2021-09-03 21:49:32 +0200 <monochrom> Too bad Hugs doesn't do backpack mixins. I would really love to say, "if you use Hugs, you don't need to recompile".
2021-09-03 21:50:22 +0200 <geekosaur> tomsmeding, we recompile and re-exec the config
2021-09-03 21:51:00 +0200 <monochrom> Oh hey geekosaur, not sure if I should raise this... printf %d for double??!!!
2021-09-03 21:51:14 +0200 <geekosaur> whoops
2021-09-03 21:51:23 +0200 <monochrom> hahaha OK no further question!
2021-09-03 21:51:24 +0200 <geekosaur> I was not fully awake I guess
2021-09-03 21:51:53 +0200MQ-17J(~MQ-17J@d14-69-206-129.try.wideopenwest.com) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2021-09-03 21:52:02 +0200 <monochrom> Sorry I was teaching a unix-and-C course this summer, very sensitive to these little things that normally shouldn't matter.
2021-09-03 21:52:05 +0200 <geekosaur> I had a scratching itch that I was wrong but didn't double check. I usually pay for that
2021-09-03 21:52:11 +0200MQ-17J(~MQ-17J@d14-69-206-129.try.wideopenwest.com)
2021-09-03 21:52:26 +0200 <geekosaur> been too long since I dealt with printfd
2021-09-03 21:52:38 +0200Morrow_(~Morrow@bzq-110-168-31-106.red.bezeqint.net)
2021-09-03 21:52:47 +0200 <geekosaur> (printf should die. in both c and haskell)
2021-09-03 21:53:30 +0200 <monochrom> But what should replace printf in C? C++'s iostream thingies?
2021-09-03 21:53:51 +0200econo(uid147250@user/econo)
2021-09-03 21:54:52 +0200 <monochrom> I'm actually OK with "fprint_int(stdout, i); fprint_str(stdout, " "); fprint_double(stdout, sin(0.0));" if that's what you have in mind.
2021-09-03 21:55:47 +0200 <dsal> `fprint_double2f_double4f_double2f_double0f_double_int`
2021-09-03 21:57:34 +0200 <monochrom> My pet peeve with C printf (and Pascall writeln) is that it is inextensible. I cannot declare "%b now means the struct type I have defined".
2021-09-03 21:58:16 +0200 <dsal> I was writing some purescript a couple days ago using a generated API for Google stuff which included a function named `sendEmailWithStringStringStringObjectBlobsourcearrayStringStringStringObjectStringBooleanString` -- I immediately imposed an 80 column limit on my project.
2021-09-03 21:58:17 +0200 <monochrom> whereas the fprint_footype convention is trivially extensible. And C++ iostream is also designed to be extensible and syntactically nice.
2021-09-03 21:58:36 +0200MQ-17J(~MQ-17J@d14-69-206-129.try.wideopenwest.com) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2021-09-03 21:58:37 +0200 <dsal> Go sort of has extensibility with %v and then %#v or %+v (I get those two confused)
2021-09-03 21:58:53 +0200MQ-17J(~MQ-17J@d14-69-206-129.try.wideopenwest.com)
2021-09-03 21:59:21 +0200 <monochrom> Ugh I have talked about Haskell too much. I now type Pascal as Pascall.
2021-09-03 21:59:23 +0200hannessteffenhag(~hannesste@ip4d14ffee.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de)
2021-09-03 21:59:55 +0200 <dsal> Do you also pronounce it Paskell?
2021-09-03 22:00:05 +0200 <tomsmeding> dsal: probably came from a language with keyword arguments
2021-09-03 22:00:07 +0200 <monochrom> At the beginning I did!
2021-09-03 22:00:18 +0200 <dsal> tomsmeding: It didn't. :( It's a JS API.
2021-09-03 22:00:21 +0200 <monochrom> Err no, I misunderstood.
2021-09-03 22:00:27 +0200 <dsal> Pronunciation is deprecated, anyway.
2021-09-03 22:00:43 +0200 <monochrom> At the beginning I pronounced Haskell as Hascal.
2021-09-03 22:01:16 +0200 <dsal> I'm pretty sure I pronounced Pascal Paskell, so we've got good coverage.
2021-09-03 22:01:31 +0200 <monochrom> :)
2021-09-03 22:02:23 +0200adelon(~adelon@user/adelon) ()
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2021-09-03 22:22:07 +0200pgib(~textual@173-38-117-70-rtp-corp-nat-pool.cisco.com)
2021-09-03 22:24:22 +0200 <maerwald> [t||] is already taken?
2021-09-03 22:24:46 +0200 <geekosaur> type quasiquoter iirc
2021-09-03 22:25:06 +0200 <maerwald> I can't find what imports it
2021-09-03 22:26:16 +0200 <maerwald> `t` is a great search term
2021-09-03 22:26:50 +0200 <tomsmeding> not in scope in my plain ghci shell
2021-09-03 22:26:50 +0200kawpuh(~kawpuh@71-150-122-133.lightspeed.brhmal.sbcglobal.net) (Quit: Client closed)
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2021-09-03 22:29:09 +0200 <geekosaur> hm, maybe not. I thought there were 4 predefined quasiquoters but the docs only mention [q||]
2021-09-03 22:29:31 +0200 <maerwald> well, I get "Actual type: Language.Haskell.TH.Lib.Internal.TypeQ"
2021-09-03 22:30:00 +0200pragma-(~chaos@user/pragmatic-chaos)
2021-09-03 22:32:12 +0200 <tomsmeding> maerwald: it's a predefined TH quote https://downloads.haskell.org/~ghc/latest/docs/html/users_guide/exts/template_haskell.html#extensi…
2021-09-03 22:32:29 +0200 <tomsmeding> % :set -XQuasiQuotes -XTemplateHaskell
2021-09-03 22:32:30 +0200 <yahb> tomsmeding:
2021-09-03 22:32:34 +0200 <tomsmeding> % [t|Int|]
2021-09-03 22:32:35 +0200 <yahb> tomsmeding: ConT GHC.Types.Int
2021-09-03 22:32:40 +0200 <tomsmeding> you need both extensions to get this
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2021-09-03 22:38:19 +0200 <maerwald> can't win
2021-09-03 22:38:54 +0200 <tomsmeding> law of preservation of misery
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2021-09-03 23:04:26 +0200[itchyjunk](~itchyjunk@user/itchyjunk/x-7353470)
2021-09-03 23:04:44 +0200 <hololeap> I remember there was a data type that was recommended to me that was like Either, but values on the Left would accumulate like Writer. anyone have an idea what it was?
2021-09-03 23:05:30 +0200 <tomsmeding> Valuation? or the thing written by kuribas a while back
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2021-09-03 23:06:31 +0200 <monochrom> Validation? These?
2021-09-03 23:06:34 +0200eggplantade(~Eggplanta@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:a1c6:3309:167f:5bb1)
2021-09-03 23:06:47 +0200 <geekosaur> Chronicle maybe
2021-09-03 23:06:50 +0200 <geekosaur> ?
2021-09-03 23:06:52 +0200tomsmedingmeant Validation -- shows that I haven't actually used it
2021-09-03 23:07:02 +0200 <monochrom> Ah yeah Chronicle too.
2021-09-03 23:07:15 +0200 <hololeap> Validation looks correct
2021-09-03 23:07:21 +0200 <hololeap> right, it can't be a Monad
2021-09-03 23:09:26 +0200wonko(~wjc@62.115.229.50) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-09-03 23:10:00 +0200 <hololeap> Chronicle also looks very interesting
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2021-09-03 23:26:14 +0200 <slack1256> Does anyone know if there is a FP/haskell group that will meet this week on chicago?
2021-09-03 23:26:31 +0200 <slack1256> There is a "meetup" that looks dead.
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2021-09-03 23:38:00 +0200 <[exa]> slack1256: any info about the meetup?
2021-09-03 23:38:12 +0200 <[exa]> you might actually un-dead it by posting it here. :D
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