IRCBrowse

2021/08/07

2021-08-07 00:00:40 +0200dermato(~dermatobr@cpe-70-114-219-76.austin.res.rr.com)
2021-08-07 00:00:55 +0200 <raehik> got it, thank you. I want to use the full lzo2 library and weighing up my options
2021-08-07 00:01:27 +0200Tuplanolla(~Tuplanoll@91-159-69-50.elisa-laajakaista.fi) (Quit: Leaving.)
2021-08-07 00:01:59 +0200roboguy__(~roboguy_@2605:a601:afe7:9f00:6574:78ba:36fc:f777)
2021-08-07 00:03:23 +0200_73(~user@pool-96-252-123-136.bstnma.fios.verizon.net)
2021-08-07 00:05:30 +0200roboguy_(~roboguy_@2605:a601:afe7:9f00:c77:b134:29be:aae9) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2021-08-07 00:05:56 +0200_73(~user@pool-96-252-123-136.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) ()
2021-08-07 00:11:45 +0200roboguy__(~roboguy_@2605:a601:afe7:9f00:6574:78ba:36fc:f777) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-08-07 00:14:41 +0200machinedgod(~machinedg@135-23-192-217.cpe.pppoe.ca) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2021-08-07 00:14:43 +0200roboguy_(~roboguy_@2605:a601:afe7:9f00:6574:78ba:36fc:f777)
2021-08-07 00:18:54 +0200lbseale(~lbseale@user/ep1ctetus) (Quit: Leaving)
2021-08-07 00:20:17 +0200Codaraxis_(~Codaraxis@user/codaraxis)
2021-08-07 00:22:18 +0200Codaraxis_(~Codaraxis@user/codaraxis) (Client Quit)
2021-08-07 00:23:14 +0200ukari(~ukari@user/ukari) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-08-07 00:23:46 +0200ukari(~ukari@user/ukari)
2021-08-07 00:23:54 +0200Codaraxis__(~Codaraxis@user/codaraxis) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-08-07 00:25:25 +0200_73(~user@pool-96-252-123-136.bstnma.fios.verizon.net)
2021-08-07 00:27:10 +0200 <_73> Would a haskell vector with 8 Word8's use just as much memory as a vector with 2 Word32's? I am trying to understand the difference between a vector and an array in C.
2021-08-07 00:29:43 +0200euouae(~euouae@user/euouae)
2021-08-07 00:29:56 +0200 <euouae> hello I’m making a simple hangman game of guessing the word
2021-08-07 00:30:26 +0200shapr(~user@pool-108-28-144-11.washdc.fios.verizon.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-08-07 00:30:49 +0200 <euouae> I wrote a type Game containing a type State which among other things has a list of Hide Char which may be hidden or visible
2021-08-07 00:31:44 +0200 <euouae> and the usual update functions and such, had trouble naming variables and I sense some duplication in code maybe. Is that a good approach in general ?
2021-08-07 00:32:04 +0200 <dsal> euouae: It'd be easier to see the code instead of imagining your concern. :)
2021-08-07 00:32:18 +0200 <euouae> Hmm alright give me 5
2021-08-07 00:33:23 +0200 <dsal> `data Game = Game { _phrase :: String, shown _visible :: Set Char }` would seem to do it all.
2021-08-07 00:33:39 +0200 <euouae> Yeah but then you’re delegating a lot to algorithms
2021-08-07 00:33:53 +0200 <dsal> Ah, the eternal battle between data structures and algorithms.
2021-08-07 00:33:56 +0200 <euouae> whereas you can also have more duplication of info in the state
2021-08-07 00:34:05 +0200 <euouae> Ahah ok
2021-08-07 00:34:34 +0200 <euouae> Actually need to make a call I’ll post code in 10
2021-08-07 00:34:37 +0200 <dsal> Duplicating data is useful when your algorithm is slow.
2021-08-07 00:35:28 +0200dispater(~dispater@user/brprice) (Quit: ZNC 1.8.1 - https://znc.in)
2021-08-07 00:35:58 +0200 <monochrom> The other technique for efficiency is structured data.
2021-08-07 00:36:20 +0200PinealGlandOptic(~PinealGla@37.115.210.35)
2021-08-07 00:37:14 +0200dispater(~dispater@user/brprice)
2021-08-07 00:37:22 +0200 <geekosaur> _73, the smallest value ghc natively supports is a machine word, so a vector of 8 Word8s takes up the same space as a vector of Word64s on a 64-bit platform
2021-08-07 00:37:37 +0200 <geekosaur> this is a GHC limitation, not a Vector limitation
2021-08-07 00:38:02 +0200 <geekosaur> that said, there are variants of Vector which go behind GHC's back and support packed vectors
2021-08-07 00:39:03 +0200euouae(~euouae@user/euouae) (Quit: Ping timeout (120 seconds))
2021-08-07 00:39:11 +0200 <_73> geekosaur: are you saying that in the end Word8's take up 64 bits on my 64-bit computer?
2021-08-07 00:39:20 +0200 <geekosaur> yes
2021-08-07 00:39:36 +0200vysn(~vysn@user/vysn) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-08-07 00:40:09 +0200 <geekosaur> ghc 9.2 is taking the first steps in changing this but I believe it still requires word-size alignment right now,, so things won't change there
2021-08-07 00:40:21 +0200 <_73> oh ok. I need to look into packed vectors then.
2021-08-07 00:40:53 +0200 <geekosaur> I *think* Nyou want Storable Vector
2021-08-07 00:42:37 +0200roboguy__(~roboguy_@2605:a601:afe7:9f00:cdb7:2350:8543:710d)
2021-08-07 00:42:40 +0200 <_73> So if I have a length 8 `Data.Vector.Storable.Vector Word8` it will truly be 64 bits?
2021-08-07 00:43:50 +0200 <geekosaur> I said "I *think*". I haven't looked closely and there's several vector variants I haven't used yet., including both storable and unpacked vectors
2021-08-07 00:44:00 +0200 <geekosaur> someone else here may know more
2021-08-07 00:44:27 +0200 <_73> ok thanks for this.
2021-08-07 00:45:01 +0200robogu___(~roboguy_@2605:a601:afe7:9f00:49e1:58f7:bf60:9b3c)
2021-08-07 00:46:10 +0200sim590(~simon@modemcable090.207-203-24.mc.videotron.ca) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-08-07 00:46:24 +0200roboguy_(~roboguy_@2605:a601:afe7:9f00:6574:78ba:36fc:f777) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-08-07 00:47:11 +0200 <geekosaur> meanwhile it's even worse than you think because normal Vectors are also storing a worde-sized constructor tag even though it's always 0 for Word8
2021-08-07 00:47:46 +0200roboguy__(~roboguy_@2605:a601:afe7:9f00:cdb7:2350:8543:710d) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-08-07 00:48:32 +0200 <geekosaur> so 8 Word8s take up 32 words or 256 bytes
2021-08-07 00:49:18 +0200Cajun(~Cajun@user/cajun) (Quit: Client closed)
2021-08-07 00:49:19 +0200roboguy_(~roboguy_@2605:a601:afe7:9f00:38b9:e9e9:c93:b099)
2021-08-07 00:49:43 +0200 <nshepperd> unboxed and storable vectors should both be efficient i think
2021-08-07 00:51:00 +0200 <_73> ok this was the kind of thing I was worried about and why I asked the question in the first place. Im looking for the closest thing I can get to an immutable C array.
2021-08-07 00:51:01 +0200 <nshepperd> the difference is that storable uses pinned memory that you can use with the FFI
2021-08-07 00:51:33 +0200 <geekosaur> that'd be (and be the point of) Storable
2021-08-07 00:52:38 +0200robogu___(~roboguy_@2605:a601:afe7:9f00:49e1:58f7:bf60:9b3c) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2021-08-07 00:54:09 +0200 <monochrom> Some of the very primitive low-level bytearray types in GHC.* would be the only thing remotely close to a C array, mutable or immutable.
2021-08-07 00:54:16 +0200 <nshepperd> unboxed uses https://hackage.haskell.org/package/primitive-0.7.2.0/docs/Data-Primitive-ByteArray.html for storage
2021-08-07 00:54:52 +0200 <monochrom> Meaning, you don't spend 8 bytes to store size, you don't spend 8 bytes to store one level of indirection.
2021-08-07 00:54:53 +0200lavaman(~lavaman@98.38.249.169) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-08-07 00:56:14 +0200 <monochrom> Of an 8-element array, the Data.Vector.* solutions of "8 bytes for size, 8 bytes for offset index, 8 bytes for pointer to the actual bytes" is very significant.
2021-08-07 00:56:49 +0200 <monochrom> And oh 8 bytes for the data constructor itself, too.
2021-08-07 00:59:04 +0200nvmd(~nvmd@user/nvmd) (Quit: Later, nerds.)
2021-08-07 01:00:11 +0200sim590(~simon@modemcable090.207-203-24.mc.videotron.ca)
2021-08-07 01:00:37 +0200 <monochrom> And I have unfavourable opinions on optimizing merely 8 elements, too.
2021-08-07 01:02:01 +0200 <monochrom> If you have a million instances of these 8-element arrays, the container that contains those 1 million pointers would be just as worrisome.
2021-08-07 01:02:48 +0200 <monochrom> If your question is a proxy question for "I really have 1 array of 1 million elements", that's very easy to whip up some code to empirically measure.
2021-08-07 01:02:50 +0200Pickchea(~private@user/pickchea) (Quit: Leaving)
2021-08-07 01:03:40 +0200 <_73> I really have 1 array of 1 million elements. Each element is a Word8.
2021-08-07 01:03:50 +0200lavaman(~lavaman@98.38.249.169)
2021-08-07 01:04:25 +0200 <dsal> That's very verbose.
2021-08-07 01:07:55 +0200 <_73> I know. I have been at this weeks. I am making a Y86-64 implementation (simple version of X86-64), and the 2 main goals of the project are purity, and accuracy to a true Y86-64 computer. I still can't think of a better way to represent memory.
2021-08-07 01:08:10 +0200euouae(~euouae@user/euouae)
2021-08-07 01:08:21 +0200lavaman(~lavaman@98.38.249.169) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2021-08-07 01:08:24 +0200 <euouae> https://termbin.com/tdaw -- here is my Hangman lib
2021-08-07 01:08:53 +0200 <euouae> with confusing logic and overengineering
2021-08-07 01:09:00 +0200 <euouae> and if possible, underengineering too
2021-08-07 01:09:26 +0200Melantha(~pyon@user/pyon) (Quit: WeeChat 3.2)
2021-08-07 01:10:42 +0200 <dsal> Yeah, I don't really like that `[CharStatus]` thing because once a character is guessed, it needs to be revealed (unless you require them to guess the same thing multiple times).
2021-08-07 01:11:00 +0200 <dsal> I was thinking something more like this:
2021-08-07 01:11:13 +0200 <dsal> > let st = ("This is a string", ['a', 's', 't', ' ']); printG (s, ls) = map (\x -> bool '_' x (x `elem` ls)) s in printG st
2021-08-07 01:11:15 +0200 <lambdabot> "___s _s a st____"
2021-08-07 01:11:30 +0200 <euouae> yeah but these are haskell tricks you're doing
2021-08-07 01:11:35 +0200 <euouae> little tricks for the pros
2021-08-07 01:11:40 +0200 <dsal> heh. Did I do a trick?
2021-08-07 01:12:11 +0200 <euouae> I didn't know of 'bool'
2021-08-07 01:12:22 +0200 <dsal> Oh.
2021-08-07 01:12:29 +0200 <dsal> That's just a function.
2021-08-07 01:12:34 +0200 <dsal> > let st = ("This is a string", ['a', 's', 't', ' ']); printG (s, ls) = map (\x -> if x `elem` ls then x else '_') s in printG st
2021-08-07 01:12:36 +0200 <lambdabot> "___s _s a st____"
2021-08-07 01:12:58 +0200 <c_wraith> at least bool is in base now. It was awkward not having a function that did that without adding packages
2021-08-07 01:13:12 +0200 <dsal> It's similar to yours, I just separated the string being guessed from the list of chars. I also didn't do a case conversion.
2021-08-07 01:13:30 +0200 <dsal> > let st = ("This is a string", ['a', 's', 't', ' ']); printG (s, ls) = map (\x -> bool '_' x (toLower x `elem` ls)) s in printG st
2021-08-07 01:13:32 +0200 <lambdabot> "T__s _s a st____"
2021-08-07 01:14:06 +0200 <dsal> But the idea is you've got the one thing that's the input being guessed, and you've got the list of guesses. You can track how many guesses there were and you can apply that list of guesses when forming the string.
2021-08-07 01:14:24 +0200 <euouae> It's not that I couldnt' write this myself
2021-08-07 01:14:34 +0200 <euouae> I guess I'm more struggling with the rest of it, the state of the game and updating it, reading input etc
2021-08-07 01:16:16 +0200 <dsal> Sure, I'm suggesting reducing state a bit. With the data structure I've got there, you've won when all the letters in your word are in the list. A guess adds a word to that list and does that evaluation.
2021-08-07 01:16:44 +0200 <euouae> Yeh you've won when s == printG s
2021-08-07 01:17:06 +0200 <dsal> You can compute bad guesses by counting words in the list that aren't in the word, and good guesses are the other ones. The minimally required state makes the necessary functions emerge pretty easily.
2021-08-07 01:17:12 +0200 <dsal> Yeah, I didn't even think about doing it that way. :)
2021-08-07 01:17:34 +0200 <euouae> What do you think about 'CurrentState'? It's supposed to keep track of what happpend in the last move, which helps i.e. with the next user message
2021-08-07 01:17:43 +0200 <_73> the way you represent the state of the game and update it with `update :: Game -> Char -> Game` makes sense to me. You cannot just modify some global state like in regular languages, you have to pass an old state and return a new state and that is what you did.
2021-08-07 01:18:29 +0200 <dsal> euouae: CurrentState seems to conflate total game state and previous move state.
2021-08-07 01:18:37 +0200futty(~futty@c83-252-75-55.bredband.tele2.se)
2021-08-07 01:18:50 +0200 <dsal> but yeah, as _73 says, that part looks right.
2021-08-07 01:19:15 +0200 <euouae> How do you keep it in a loop until the game is over?
2021-08-07 01:19:17 +0200rlp10(~rlp10@cpc77289-basf12-2-0-cust607.12-3.cable.virginm.net)
2021-08-07 01:19:35 +0200 <dsal> I think the confusion is mixing all that state up. You can decide whether a particular guess is good or bad by just checking to see if the char you just picked up is in the list.
2021-08-07 01:20:05 +0200 <dsal> `until (gameOver st) $ repl st`
2021-08-07 01:20:23 +0200 <euouae> Yeah, I see what you mean. Minimal state is good for this problem but I was trying to engineer it
2021-08-07 01:20:28 +0200 <rlp10> How do I create a lazy list (from which I can 'take') when I already have the first item and a function (call it 'nextItem') which takes the previous item in the list and gives the next one?
2021-08-07 01:20:41 +0200 <dsal> :t iterate -- rlp10
2021-08-07 01:20:42 +0200 <lambdabot> (a -> a) -> a -> [a]
2021-08-07 01:20:52 +0200 <rlp10> dsal: Thank you!
2021-08-07 01:20:54 +0200kor1(~kor1@user/kor1)
2021-08-07 01:21:07 +0200kor1(~kor1@user/kor1) ()
2021-08-07 01:22:00 +0200 <euouae> wait how does until work
2021-08-07 01:22:01 +0200 <euouae> I'm confused
2021-08-07 01:22:12 +0200jgeerds(~jgeerds@55d45555.access.ecotel.net) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2021-08-07 01:22:21 +0200 <dsal> :t until
2021-08-07 01:22:22 +0200 <lambdabot> (a -> Bool) -> (a -> a) -> a -> a
2021-08-07 01:22:26 +0200 <euouae> aah nice. I see
2021-08-07 01:22:39 +0200 <euouae> Good ol recursion saves the day
2021-08-07 01:22:50 +0200 <dsal> @hoogle until
2021-08-07 01:22:50 +0200 <lambdabot> Prelude until :: (a -> Bool) -> (a -> a) -> a -> a
2021-08-07 01:22:50 +0200 <lambdabot> GHC.Base until :: (a -> Bool) -> (a -> a) -> a -> a
2021-08-07 01:22:50 +0200 <lambdabot> Test.Hspec.Discover until :: () => (a -> Bool) -> (a -> a) -> a -> a
2021-08-07 01:23:10 +0200 <dsal> I meant unless
2021-08-07 01:23:18 +0200 <dsal> :t unless -- euouae
2021-08-07 01:23:19 +0200 <lambdabot> Applicative f => Bool -> f () -> f ()
2021-08-07 01:23:24 +0200 <euouae> Oh, unless! Whoopos :D
2021-08-07 01:23:27 +0200pschorf(~user@c-73-77-28-188.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2021-08-07 01:23:36 +0200eggplantade(~Eggplanta@108-201-191-115.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-08-07 01:23:42 +0200 <euouae> How do I use hedgehog for unit tests
2021-08-07 01:23:44 +0200 <dsal> I actually am not familiar with until. That's strange.
2021-08-07 01:23:53 +0200 <dsal> I've recently started using hedgehog.
2021-08-07 01:24:26 +0200 <euouae> Seems complicated
2021-08-07 01:24:35 +0200 <euouae> Not sure what generators are
2021-08-07 01:24:39 +0200 <dsal> You just have to think of the property that's useful and build the generators around it.
2021-08-07 01:24:42 +0200 <dsal> A generator creates input.
2021-08-07 01:25:02 +0200 <euouae> So a generator for Int is, say, a random even Int?
2021-08-07 01:25:07 +0200 <dsal> So like, you might have a phrase generator that creates a string "some test for junk"
2021-08-07 01:25:58 +0200 <dsal> Then you could say something like "after all chars in this string are guessed, the game is over and I won"
2021-08-07 01:26:48 +0200 <euouae> With until? yeah. I notice I have until and not unless
2021-08-07 01:26:58 +0200 <dsal> I've mostly used QuickCheck so my brain still thinks of things that way. There are specific generator functions that give you different parts of range and stuff.
2021-08-07 01:26:58 +0200 <euouae> At least in GHC.Base
2021-08-07 01:27:07 +0200 <dsal> unless is Control.Monad
2021-08-07 01:27:11 +0200 <dsal> I have no idea what until is. heh
2021-08-07 01:27:24 +0200 <euouae> until is pure
2021-08-07 01:27:40 +0200 <euouae> It's basically like iterate and take the first non-failure
2021-08-07 01:27:49 +0200 <dsal> Yeah. I've not had a use for that before.
2021-08-07 01:28:06 +0200 <euouae> Well, come to think of it, I can't use until since my functions need IO
2021-08-07 01:28:13 +0200 <euouae> or I'd have to use >>= etc
2021-08-07 01:28:43 +0200 <dsal> Forget I ever said until because that was confusing. I meant unless.
2021-08-07 01:28:58 +0200 <euouae> Yaeh np I am on the same page now
2021-08-07 01:29:13 +0200 <dsal> You have `repl :: Game -> IO Game` -- that needs to loop while the game is running, doesn't it?
2021-08-07 01:29:58 +0200 <euouae> Yeah
2021-08-07 01:29:59 +0200 <dsal> @hoogle untilM -- If you want to get fancy
2021-08-07 01:30:00 +0200 <lambdabot> Prelude undefined :: forall (r :: RuntimeRep) . forall (a :: TYPE r) . HasCallStack => a
2021-08-07 01:30:00 +0200 <lambdabot> Control.Exception.Base absentSumFieldError :: a
2021-08-07 01:30:00 +0200 <lambdabot> Text.Printf errorShortFormat :: a
2021-08-07 01:30:11 +0200 <dsal> that's... not what's supposed to happen
2021-08-07 01:30:13 +0200 <dsal> @hoogle untilM
2021-08-07 01:30:13 +0200 <lambdabot> Control.Monad.Loops untilM :: Monad m => m a -> m Bool -> m [a]
2021-08-07 01:30:13 +0200 <lambdabot> Control.Monad.HT untilM :: Monad m => (a -> Bool) -> m a -> m a
2021-08-07 01:30:13 +0200 <lambdabot> Control.Monad.Loops untilM' :: (Monad m, MonadPlus f) => m a -> m Bool -> m (f a)
2021-08-07 01:30:21 +0200 <dsal> But you can just use unless for that.
2021-08-07 01:30:21 +0200 <euouae> Lol
2021-08-07 01:30:30 +0200 <_73> I made this modification to the repl function. It is not fancy like untilM: http://dpaste.com/695CCJ27U
2021-08-07 01:30:52 +0200 <euouae> ooh modifications :D
2021-08-07 01:30:55 +0200 <dsal> Yeah, that's basically `unless`
2021-08-07 01:31:45 +0200 <dsal> This is the implementation of unless: `unless p s = if p then pure () else s`
2021-08-07 01:31:51 +0200 <euouae> Yeah nice, thanks for that. Makes it clear
2021-08-07 01:32:40 +0200 <euouae> That doesn't look like a loop, unless I call it inside repl
2021-08-07 01:33:00 +0200 <euouae> Oh OK. So untilM is the fancy way of doing it, where you don't have to write it /inside/ repl
2021-08-07 01:33:58 +0200 <dsal> `untilM` is a little extra fancy because the condition is monadic as well: `untilM :: Monad m => m a -> m Bool -> m [a]`
2021-08-07 01:34:33 +0200 <dsal> But doing explicit recursion is fine. The nice thing about doing that condition explicitly is that you can return the final game state (or whatever you think that should return)
2021-08-07 01:36:53 +0200 <euouae> _73's code?
2021-08-07 01:37:09 +0200 <euouae> (is that... a boost lambda?)
2021-08-07 01:37:38 +0200 <dsal> ?
2021-08-07 01:37:45 +0200euouaemade a joke about the IRC user handle
2021-08-07 01:37:50 +0200jmorris(uid433911@id-433911.stonehaven.irccloud.com)
2021-08-07 01:38:22 +0200 <euouae> But the explicit recursion you spoke of, that's shown in the dpaste above. Or are you including unless?
2021-08-07 01:39:01 +0200 <dsal> Well, they're both explicit recursion, but `unless` can only return (), with the dpaste above you can return whatever you want.
2021-08-07 01:39:54 +0200 <euouae> Gotcha
2021-08-07 01:41:52 +0200eggplantade(~Eggplanta@108-201-191-115.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
2021-08-07 01:44:16 +0200 <euouae> Nice, thanks you two :)
2021-08-07 01:45:10 +0200 <euouae> One issue for me is that I'm too used to writing C++ to the point where I am trained to think in ways that optimize in time or space
2021-08-07 01:45:44 +0200 <euouae> Can't strike a sensible balance
2021-08-07 01:46:17 +0200 <euouae> It's a hangman game, have some mercy!
2021-08-07 01:47:01 +0200rlp10(~rlp10@cpc77289-basf12-2-0-cust607.12-3.cable.virginm.net) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2021-08-07 01:48:24 +0200MoC(~moc@user/moc) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2021-08-07 01:51:33 +0200neightchan(~nate@108-233-125-227.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-08-07 01:51:53 +0200natechan(~nate@108-233-125-227.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
2021-08-07 01:54:54 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
2021-08-07 02:00:10 +0200 <_73> euouae: explicit recursion is when you explicitly make a recursive function call. For example `sum [] = 0; sum (x:xs) = x + sum xs`. Contrast this with the equivalent definition which is still recursive but doesn't make an explicit call to itself: `sum xs = foldr (+) 0 xs`.
2021-08-07 02:02:33 +0200 <lechner> Hi, being new to both Applicative and optparse-applicative, I cannot figure out how to integrate the "arguments" Parser for a potentially unlimited number of version strings into the poorly named "sample" Parser for the path of the configuration file. Any pointers would be appreciated. Thanks! https://dpaste.org/XgOU#L57,58
2021-08-07 02:04:06 +0200_73`(~user@pool-96-252-123-136.bstnma.fios.verizon.net)
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2021-08-07 02:24:53 +0200zebrag(~chris@user/zebrag)
2021-08-07 02:27:04 +0200 <dsal> lechner: Do you mean you want to allow for multiple `-c` or just take the rest of argv?
2021-08-07 02:27:39 +0200 <lechner> one -c, and then a list of version strings
2021-08-07 02:27:54 +0200 <lechner> i should have uesd strArgument
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2021-08-07 02:28:44 +0200 <euouae> _73: hm... foldr is recursive?
2021-08-07 02:29:02 +0200 <dsal> lechner: Yeah, that's not exactly a thing.
2021-08-07 02:29:16 +0200markpythonicbitc(~markpytho@2601:647:5a00:35:a8c6:4beb:a469:3f6e)
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2021-08-07 02:30:28 +0200 <geekosaur> @src foldr
2021-08-07 02:30:28 +0200 <lambdabot> foldr f z [] = z
2021-08-07 02:30:28 +0200 <lambdabot> foldr f z (x:xs) = f x (foldr f z xs)
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2021-08-07 02:32:56 +0200dajoer(~david@user/gvx)
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2021-08-07 02:38:05 +0200 <euouae> whenever I think of foldr and foldl
2021-08-07 02:38:19 +0200 <euouae> I'm always thinking of a tree folding on one side
2021-08-07 02:38:40 +0200 <euouae> but I never know what the implications on execution are. I know one is slow I think
2021-08-07 02:39:58 +0200 <dsal> foldl is always wrong (you probably meant foldl'). foldr works on infinite lists and is probably a good default.
2021-08-07 02:40:24 +0200Gurkenglas(~Gurkengla@dslb-002-203-144-156.002.203.pools.vodafone-ip.de) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-08-07 02:41:15 +0200 <dsal> lechner: Here's a pretty simple tool with a pretty simple use of optparse-applicative to parse a set of parameters and a (non-empty) list of objects for which I have a custom parser: https://github.com/dustin/waitforsocket/blob/master/app/Main.hs
2021-08-07 02:44:21 +0200 <_73> a nice way to think of folding is replacing the lists spine with a function. So with sum we can turn the list `1 : 2 : 3 : []` into the expression `1 + 2 + 3 + 0`
2021-08-07 02:44:52 +0200 <euouae> Ok but what's the difference between (r) and (l) ?
2021-08-07 02:44:57 +0200 <euouae> in fold(r) and fold(l)
2021-08-07 02:45:11 +0200shapr(~user@pool-100-36-247-68.washdc.fios.verizon.net)
2021-08-07 02:48:16 +0200arkho(~ccc@dynamic-acs-24-112-153-241.zoominternet.net)
2021-08-07 02:48:29 +0200 <_73> I cannot give a better explanation than this SO post. Especially with the answer that uses an image: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/384797/implications-of-foldr-vs-foldl-or-foldl
2021-08-07 02:48:35 +0200 <pavonia> euouae: https://wiki.haskell.org/Foldr_Foldl_Foldl%27
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2021-08-07 02:50:51 +0200 <euouae> AH I get it now
2021-08-07 02:51:06 +0200 <euouae> I've encountered this problem on my own before so I'm familiar with all three solutions, foldr, foldl and foldl'
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2021-08-07 02:55:55 +0200jess(~jess@libera/staff/jess) ()
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2021-08-07 02:59:16 +0200 <lechner> dsal: thanks! what is parseTarget please?
2021-08-07 02:59:24 +0200machinedgod(~machinedg@24.105.81.50)
2021-08-07 02:59:28 +0200xsperry(~as@user/xsperry) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-08-07 02:59:37 +0200 <dsal> lechner: https://github.com/dustin/waitforsocket/blob/master/src/Waitforsocket.hs#L54
2021-08-07 02:59:55 +0200xsperry(~as@user/xsperry)
2021-08-07 03:00:16 +0200 <dsal> If yours are just strings, you'd use `str` or whatever. My case is more complicated.
2021-08-07 03:00:46 +0200 <lechner> actually, they are semver strings
2021-08-07 03:01:05 +0200 <lechner> i will write my own parser!
2021-08-07 03:01:12 +0200 <dsal> This is a CLI tool that lets me wait for a network or service to become available. e.g., you can do stuff like: `waitforsocket https://www.{google,yahoo}.com/ {a,b,c}:22` and it'll do the thing.
2021-08-07 03:01:25 +0200roboguy_(~roboguy_@2605:a601:afe7:9f00:38b9:e9e9:c93:b099) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-08-07 03:01:48 +0200 <lechner> now what do you that for, please?
2021-08-07 03:01:48 +0200 <dsal> By default, it waits for all of those to answer. But if you're just trying to see if you're on the internet, you can tell it to wait for one or two services and decide things are good.
2021-08-07 03:01:57 +0200roboguy_(~roboguy_@2605:a601:afe7:9f00:38b9:e9e9:c93:b099)
2021-08-07 03:02:00 +0200 <lechner> i see
2021-08-07 03:06:48 +0200roboguy_(~roboguy_@2605:a601:afe7:9f00:38b9:e9e9:c93:b099) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2021-08-07 03:07:34 +0200 <lechner> "Unlike Parsec 3, attoparsec does not support being used as a monad transformer." woould make a great https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shibboleth
2021-08-07 03:08:23 +0200aegon(~mike@174.127.249.180) (Quit: leaving)
2021-08-07 03:10:14 +0200 <dsal> lechner: I use this thing all the time. Rebooted a machine and waiting for it to come back `waitforsocket server:22 && mosh server`
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2021-08-07 03:10:36 +0200 <dsal> Internet offline: `waitforsocket https://www.google.com/ && whatever`
2021-08-07 03:11:15 +0200MQ-17J(~MQ-17J@8.21.10.94)
2021-08-07 03:12:43 +0200 <dsal> I also had some computers that would fall off the network periodically, so `waitforsocket --abstimeout 30000 --required 1 https://www.{reddit,ebay,google,yahoo}.com/ || restartNetworking`
2021-08-07 03:16:25 +0200Cajun(~Cajun@user/cajun)
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2021-08-07 03:47:33 +0200 <lechner> dsal: Thanks so much for the code samples! I usually go offline at sunset (in Fremont) and will play with the parsers on Sunday. Please have a relaxing weekend!
2021-08-07 03:48:48 +0200roboguy_(~roboguy_@2605:a601:afe7:9f00:38b9:e9e9:c93:b099) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-08-07 04:03:40 +0200 <dsal> lechner: Fremont, CA?
2021-08-07 04:04:08 +0200 <dsal> I'm up here in fire country. It's been sunset all day. :)
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2021-08-07 04:11:31 +0200 <h_> anyone here know enough about category theory to answer a basic question?
2021-08-07 04:12:58 +0200 <h_> page 12-13 of this http://brendanfong.com/programmingcats_files/cats4progs-DRAFT.pdf seems to have an error but id like to verify my understanding
2021-08-07 04:13:17 +0200 <h_> Left unital: for any f : c → d, the equation idc ◦ f = f holds
2021-08-07 04:13:50 +0200 <h_> I think this should be Left unital: for any f : c → d, the equation f ◦ idc = f holds
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2021-08-07 04:16:57 +0200Erutuon(~Erutuon@user/erutuon) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2021-08-07 04:17:25 +0200 <glguy> h_, I think the error is that the id arrows are annotated with the wrong types, but not that they are on the wrong side of the .
2021-08-07 04:19:10 +0200 <h_> Left unital: for any f : c → d, the equation idd ◦ f = f holds
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2021-08-07 04:20:16 +0200 <h_> ?
2021-08-07 04:20:56 +0200 <h_> also is there any way for ( f ◦ g ) ◦ h to not equal f ◦ ( g ◦ h ) ? seems like it has to
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2021-08-07 04:34:33 +0200 <lechner> dsal: Sorry, your profile said San Jose. Sunset is near. The sun is super red like in the big fires in 2017. Hope you are in Plumas. I used to go up to Lake Almanor. Please don't be brave
2021-08-07 04:34:38 +0200falafel(~falafel@pool-96-255-70-50.washdc.fios.verizon.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-08-07 04:34:56 +0200 <lechner> hope you are not in Plumas
2021-08-07 04:35:12 +0200 <dsal> lechner: Ah, I should update. Sold my house. :) I'm in Butte County
2021-08-07 04:35:32 +0200pfurla_(~pfurla@ool-182ed2e2.dyn.optonline.net)
2021-08-07 04:37:47 +0200 <lechner> dsal: oroville reporting about the water level on CNN is so strange. aren't people happy the dam can maybe be repaired?
2021-08-07 04:38:28 +0200pfurla(~pfurla@230.15.195.173.client.static.strong-in52.as13926.net) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-08-07 04:38:31 +0200kor1(~kor1@user/kor1)
2021-08-07 04:39:03 +0200 <lechner> either way, i guess housing is on fire everywhere. sorry bad pun & please stay safe
2021-08-07 04:41:17 +0200 <lechner> for everone else, sorry to be off topic. TTYL
2021-08-07 04:41:25 +0200 <dsal> Yeah. I don't think our dam is going to overflow this year. :) But our electricity plant is offline. I've got solar + powerwall (had a lot of outages last year). It's an enjoyable apocalypse. :)
2021-08-07 04:42:31 +0200 <h_> hmm. i guess Ob(C) can be the empty set
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2021-08-07 04:43:05 +0200 <h_> oops. I mean to say C(c,d) in Ob(C) can be empty set
2021-08-07 04:43:24 +0200 <h_> meaning there are no morphisms between c and d
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2021-08-07 04:50:26 +0200 <glguy> h_, yeah, left unital -> idd ◦ f = f
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2021-08-07 04:59:32 +0200 <h_> i like how the word algebra means something totally more nuts to math experts than it does to everyone else
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2021-08-07 06:13:35 +0200 <jakefromstatefar> I'm making a MineCraft mod, and I'm wondering if my algorithm for incremental stepping between 2 positions is reasonable, IK it's not haskell-specific, but rather java (yuck), however, is anyone willing to double check my logic?
2021-08-07 06:14:08 +0200 <jakefromstatefar> I keep getting weird values and I can't figure out why
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2021-08-07 06:37:39 +0200 <dsal> It's hard to imagine what you've done or how you got it wrong. :)
2021-08-07 06:38:47 +0200falafel(~falafel@pool-96-255-70-50.washdc.fios.verizon.net) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2021-08-07 06:45:24 +0200lavaman(~lavaman@98.38.249.169)
2021-08-07 06:46:08 +0200roboguy_(~roboguy_@2605:a601:afe7:9f00:a817:3532:51cf:27aa)
2021-08-07 06:48:04 +0200roboguy__(~roboguy_@2605:a601:afe7:9f00:d520:2aa3:7f59:3078)
2021-08-07 06:49:56 +0200lavaman(~lavaman@98.38.249.169) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
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2021-08-07 06:52:40 +0200roboguy__(~roboguy_@2605:a601:afe7:9f00:d520:2aa3:7f59:3078) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2021-08-07 06:53:39 +0200 <jakefromstatefar> lol, I'll get a paste
2021-08-07 06:55:30 +0200 <jakefromstatefar> https://p.bsd-unix.net/view/38cdd5b4
2021-08-07 06:56:09 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
2021-08-07 06:57:05 +0200haykam(~haykam@static.100.2.21.65.clients.your-server.de) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2021-08-07 07:04:01 +0200lavaman(~lavaman@98.38.249.169)
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2021-08-07 07:20:47 +0200abhixec(~abhixec@c-67-169-139-16.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
2021-08-07 07:23:20 +0200 <xacktm> jakefromstatefar: there's a #java channel you an try asking instead
2021-08-07 07:23:56 +0200Guest56(~Guest56@2804:d4b:9795:300:8439:3d7f:376e:35ad) (Client Quit)
2021-08-07 07:25:22 +0200jneira_(~jneira_@28.red-80-28-169.staticip.rima-tde.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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2021-08-07 07:34:32 +0200syntactic_sugar[(~syntactic@2001:470:69fc:105::b4af)
2021-08-07 07:37:02 +0200syntactic_sugar[(~syntactic@2001:470:69fc:105::b4af) ()
2021-08-07 07:39:34 +0200MQ-17J(~MQ-17J@d14-69-206-129.try.wideopenwest.com)
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2021-08-07 08:17:48 +0200Tuplanolla(~Tuplanoll@91-159-69-50.elisa-laajakaista.fi)
2021-08-07 08:20:05 +0200roboguy_(~roboguy_@2605:a601:afe7:9f00:d520:2aa3:7f59:3078)
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2021-08-07 08:25:39 +0200delYsid(~user@62-178-101-151.cable.dynamic.surfer.at)
2021-08-07 08:25:45 +0200Lord_of_Life_(~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915)
2021-08-07 08:25:52 +0200Lord_of_Life(~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2021-08-07 08:26:36 +0200 <delYsid> How do you call a rosetree with a uniform branching factor of 1?
2021-08-07 08:26:59 +0200Lord_of_Life_Lord_of_Life
2021-08-07 08:27:09 +0200 <c_wraith> a list?
2021-08-07 08:29:06 +0200 <delYsid> Right! Thats basically why I ask. I wrote functions to convert [] and NonEmpty into a forest and tree respectively. And I was wondering how to name this. listToForest is OKish, but nonEmptyToTree sounds a bit like a mouthful... stem maybe?
2021-08-07 08:32:10 +0200lavaman(~lavaman@98.38.249.169)
2021-08-07 08:32:22 +0200anandprabhu(~anandprab@94.202.243.198)
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2021-08-07 08:39:23 +0200mikoto-chan(~mikoto-ch@ip-193-121-10-50.dsl.scarlet.be)
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2021-08-07 08:54:20 +0200slowButPresent(~slowButPr@user/slowbutpresent) (Quit: leaving)
2021-08-07 08:55:51 +0200markpythonicbitc(~markpytho@2601:647:5a00:35:a8c6:4beb:a469:3f6e) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2021-08-07 08:56:28 +0200roboguy_(~roboguy_@2605:a601:afe7:9f00:d520:2aa3:7f59:3078) ()
2021-08-07 08:57:06 +0200 <sm> branch ? grow ? sprout ?
2021-08-07 09:00:40 +0200anandprabhu(~anandprab@94.202.243.198) (Quit: Leaving)
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2021-08-07 09:14:54 +0200jmorris(uid433911@id-433911.stonehaven.irccloud.com) ()
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2021-08-07 09:31:50 +0200econo(uid147250@user/econo) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2021-08-07 09:34:53 +0200Obo(~roberto@70.pool90-171-81.dynamic.orange.es)
2021-08-07 09:35:04 +0200Obo(~roberto@70.pool90-171-81.dynamic.orange.es) (Client Quit)
2021-08-07 09:38:21 +0200nerdypepper(~nerdypepp@user/nerdypepper) (Quit: bye)
2021-08-07 09:40:56 +0200nerdypepper(~nerdypepp@user/nerdypepper)
2021-08-07 09:52:17 +0200MoC(~moc@user/moc)
2021-08-07 09:52:31 +0200 <maerwald[m]> is `copyFile` guaranteed to work when source and destination are the same or does it depend on platform/kernel/whatever?
2021-08-07 09:52:35 +0200 <maerwald[m]> The documentation is rather useless
2021-08-07 09:53:52 +0200lavaman(~lavaman@98.38.249.169)
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2021-08-07 10:17:37 +0200geekosaur(~geekosaur@xmonad/geekosaur) (Killed (NickServ (GHOST command used by allbery_b)))
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2021-08-07 10:17:42 +0200allbery_bgeekosaur
2021-08-07 10:18:13 +0200tomsmedingis afraid there is no specification apart from the documentation
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2021-08-07 11:13:06 +0200Moyst(~moyst@user/moyst)
2021-08-07 11:16:04 +0200Guest7123random-jellyfish
2021-08-07 11:19:32 +0200eggplantade(~Eggplanta@108-201-191-115.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
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2021-08-07 11:28:35 +0200 <random-jellyfish> I have list of zeros and ones like l1=[0,0,0,1,0,1,1,0,0,1,0] and a list of values l2=[1,2,3,4], I want each value from l2 to be placed on a 1 position in l1, the result would look like [0,0,0,1,0,2,3,0,0,4,0]
2021-08-07 11:28:40 +0200 <random-jellyfish> how do I do that?
2021-08-07 11:30:13 +0200 <enikar> zipWith ?
2021-08-07 11:30:27 +0200 <enikar> no !
2021-08-07 11:30:43 +0200 <enikar> sorry.
2021-08-07 11:31:32 +0200 <random-jellyfish> can't think of a short and elegant solution
2021-08-07 11:31:51 +0200gehmehgeh(~user@user/gehmehgeh)
2021-08-07 11:32:14 +0200 <enikar> it's easy to realize with a recursive function, though.
2021-08-07 11:32:33 +0200curiousgay(~curiousga@77-120-186-48.kha.volia.net)
2021-08-07 11:32:45 +0200 <random-jellyfish> yeah
2021-08-07 11:33:18 +0200 <xerox> > let f [] _ = Nothing; f (0:ixs) xs = Just (0,(ixs,xs)); f (1:ixs) (x:xs) = Just (x,(ixs,xs)); g = curry (unfoldr (uncurry f)) in g [0,0,0,1,0,1,0,0,1,0,1,0] [1,2,3,4]
2021-08-07 11:33:19 +0200 <lambdabot> [0,0,0,1,0,2,0,0,3,0,4,0]
2021-08-07 11:33:52 +0200 <xerox> just an idea
2021-08-07 11:35:39 +0200Sgeo(~Sgeo@user/sgeo) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-08-07 11:35:48 +0200 <random-jellyfish> interesting, thanks!
2021-08-07 11:37:53 +0200pe200012(~pe200012@113.105.10.33)
2021-08-07 11:40:07 +0200norias(~jaredm@c-98-219-195-163.hsd1.pa.comcast.net)
2021-08-07 11:40:15 +0200 <kuribas> set (partsOf filtered (==1)) [1,2,3,4] [0,0,0,1,0,1,1,0,0,1,0]
2021-08-07 11:40:17 +0200 <kuribas> > set (partsOf filtered (==1)) [1,2,3,4] [0,0,0,1,0,1,1,0,0,1,0]
2021-08-07 11:40:18 +0200 <lambdabot> error:
2021-08-07 11:40:18 +0200 <lambdabot> • Couldn't match type ‘a0 -> Identity [a1]’
2021-08-07 11:40:18 +0200 <lambdabot> with ‘Control.Lens.Internal.Bazaar.BazaarT
2021-08-07 11:40:44 +0200 <kuribas> > set (partsOf $ filtered (==1)) [1,2,3,4] [0,0,0,1,0,1,1,0,0,1,0]
2021-08-07 11:40:45 +0200 <lambdabot> error:
2021-08-07 11:40:45 +0200 <lambdabot> • No instance for (Num [Integer])
2021-08-07 11:40:45 +0200 <lambdabot> arising from a use of ‘e_11123400010110010’
2021-08-07 11:41:19 +0200 <kuribas> > set (partsOf $ traverse . filtered (==1)) [1,2,3,4] [0,0,0,1,0,1,1,0,0,1,0]
2021-08-07 11:41:21 +0200 <lambdabot> [0,0,0,1,0,2,3,0,0,4,0]
2021-08-07 11:43:16 +0200elf_fortrezz(~elf_fortr@adsl-72-50-6-19.prtc.net) (Quit: Client closed)
2021-08-07 11:45:34 +0200 <random-jellyfish> kuribas nice
2021-08-07 11:45:52 +0200 <kuribas> it's not a lawful lens though...
2021-08-07 11:46:18 +0200elf_fortrezz(~elf_fortr@adsl-72-50-4-51.prtc.net)
2021-08-07 11:46:35 +0200 <Rembane> Breaking the law! Breaking the law!
2021-08-07 11:46:45 +0200caubert(~caubert@136.244.111.235) (Quit: WeeChat 3.2)
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2021-08-07 11:47:03 +0200elf_fortrez(~elf_fortr@adsl-72-50-4-51.prtc.net)
2021-08-07 11:47:13 +0200 <c_wraith> I can't imagine better behavior than what it does, though
2021-08-07 11:47:34 +0200 <kuribas> > set (partsOf $ traverse . filtered (==1)) [1,2,3] [0,0,0,1,0,1,1,0,0,1,0]
2021-08-07 11:47:36 +0200 <lambdabot> [0,0,0,1,0,2,3,0,0,1,0]
2021-08-07 11:47:45 +0200 <kuribas> > set (partsOf $ traverse . filtered (==1)) [1,2,3,4,5,6] [0,0,0,1,0,1,1,0,0,1,0]
2021-08-07 11:47:46 +0200 <lambdabot> [0,0,0,1,0,2,3,0,0,4,0]
2021-08-07 11:48:09 +0200caubert(~caubert@136.244.111.235)
2021-08-07 11:48:34 +0200 <random-jellyfish> > set (partsOf $ traverse . filtered (==1)) [1,2] [0,0,0,1,0,1,1,0,0,1,0]
2021-08-07 11:48:35 +0200 <lambdabot> [0,0,0,1,0,2,1,0,0,1,0]
2021-08-07 11:48:59 +0200 <random-jellyfish> works great
2021-08-07 11:49:41 +0200 <random-jellyfish> are there any drawbacks if it's unlawful? (don't know what that mean)
2021-08-07 11:57:23 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
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2021-08-07 12:00:51 +0200mcglk(~mcglk@131.191.49.120)
2021-08-07 12:03:01 +0200 <c_wraith> the only drawback is that you have to think when refactoring it
2021-08-07 12:04:54 +0200 <c_wraith> optics that obey the laws refactor cleanly when you do all sorts of common transformations. The unlawful ones don't guarantee that will work.
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2021-08-07 13:56:30 +0200 <Hecate> hohai
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2021-08-07 13:56:58 +0200 <Hecate> is there a way to ensure that the RTS parallelises chains of Applicative effects?
2021-08-07 13:57:10 +0200 <Hecate> (when one uses <*> and *>)
2021-08-07 13:58:59 +0200 <Hecate> or do I need to do it at the userland level with the Par monad?
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2021-08-07 14:02:33 +0200 <[exa]> Hecate: by "chains of applicative effects", you mean any applicative effects?
2021-08-07 14:02:55 +0200 <[exa]> in that case it won't; generally if there is no `par` there's no parallelization
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2021-08-07 17:48:05 +0200 <Hecate> < [exa]> Hecate: by "chains of applicative effects", you mean any applicative effects? // yeah
2021-08-07 17:48:19 +0200 <Hecate> since we more or less give up execution order to the RTS
2021-08-07 17:48:42 +0200 <Hecate> I was wondering if it was doing the better thing for actions that do not depend on other actions
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2021-08-07 19:20:24 +0200eggplantade(~Eggplanta@108-201-191-115.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
2021-08-07 19:23:28 +0200 <dsal> I had written all this code for collapsing folding newlines into spaces and making sure that duplicate spaces were removed when logging potentially large errors from a remote API and it turned out my code wasn't doing anything more than `unwords . words`
2021-08-07 19:23:59 +0200peterhil(~peterhil@dsl-hkibng32-54fb52-57.dhcp.inet.fi) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-08-07 19:24:06 +0200 <geekosaur> heh
2021-08-07 19:24:36 +0200kor1(~kor1@user/kor1) (Quit: Leaving.)
2021-08-07 19:26:23 +0200 <c_wraith> > "the first\n\none" & worded %~ id -- lens has an improper optic for this!
2021-08-07 19:26:24 +0200 <lambdabot> "the first one"
2021-08-07 19:26:41 +0200fef(~thedawn@user/thedawn) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-08-07 19:26:55 +0200 <dsal> `%~ id` looks funny.
2021-08-07 19:27:02 +0200 <c_wraith> because it is :)
2021-08-07 19:27:21 +0200 <c_wraith> it would do exactly nothing with a lawful optic
2021-08-07 19:28:29 +0200 <dsal> Oh, that's neat. That might be useful if my function weren't `String -> String`
2021-08-07 19:31:38 +0200 <c_wraith> > "the first\n\none" & worded %~ map toUpper
2021-08-07 19:31:39 +0200 <lambdabot> "THE FIRST ONE"
2021-08-07 19:32:07 +0200 <c_wraith> works properly with some String -> String functions
2021-08-07 19:34:16 +0200hrnz(~ulli@irc.plumbing)
2021-08-07 19:37:02 +0200 <raehik> I'm trying to parse a UTF-8 CSV, and Cassava appears not to accept UTF-8. is that the case or is my config broke
2021-08-07 19:37:32 +0200 <monochrom> cassava accepts UTF-8 for me.
2021-08-07 19:37:35 +0200 <raehik> very confused that they use Chars and Text but fall over on *any* non-ASCII
2021-08-07 19:38:02 +0200 <geekosaur> "falls over" how?
2021-08-07 19:38:04 +0200 <raehik> could I run things on lambdabot here (or would the pkg not be here)
2021-08-07 19:38:24 +0200 <monochrom> lambdabot doesn't have cassava.
2021-08-07 19:38:57 +0200 <raehik> geekosaur: I get unusual "conversion error, cannot decode byte" msgs, telling me invalid UTF-8 stream
2021-08-07 19:39:17 +0200 <raehik> > Data.Csv.decode Data.Csv.NoHeader "テスト"
2021-08-07 19:39:19 +0200 <lambdabot> error:
2021-08-07 19:39:19 +0200 <lambdabot> Not in scope: ‘Data.Csv.decode’
2021-08-07 19:39:19 +0200 <lambdabot> No module named ‘Data.Csv’ is imported.error:
2021-08-07 19:39:22 +0200 <Hecate> raehik: any chance you could provide a repro?
2021-08-07 19:39:41 +0200 <c_wraith> raehik: cassava claims that it only works with UTF-8
2021-08-07 19:39:51 +0200 <tomsmeding> raehik: try running 'iconv -f utf8 -t utf8 your_file.csv' and see if that gives an error; if so, the file has invalid utf8
2021-08-07 19:39:58 +0200 <c_wraith> raehik: is there any chance your data *isn't* UTF-8?
2021-08-07 19:40:16 +0200 <raehik> I haven't actually tested any files yet, only Bytestrings and Text
2021-08-07 19:40:30 +0200 <raehik> urgh maybe that's why, b/c they're not UTF-8?
2021-08-07 19:40:46 +0200 <c_wraith> that would fit the error message you're reporting
2021-08-07 19:40:50 +0200 <Athas> Does anyone know of a Haskell implementation of the bfloat16 format? I can't find one on Hackage.
2021-08-07 19:41:02 +0200fef(~thedawn@user/thedawn)
2021-08-07 19:42:08 +0200 <raehik> gah what a weird error. So I'm unable to test in GHCi, but regular files will work fine
2021-08-07 19:42:21 +0200 <raehik> thanks for the assistance, that's very unintuitive
2021-08-07 19:42:29 +0200 <c_wraith> is your terminal set to a different encoding?
2021-08-07 19:42:38 +0200 <c_wraith> that matters when you're typing things in interactively
2021-08-07 19:42:42 +0200 <monochrom> Is this Windows? Is your code page not 65001?
2021-08-07 19:42:51 +0200 <raehik> Linux, LANG=en_US.UTF-8
2021-08-07 19:42:59 +0200 <raehik> Use UTF-8 (CJK) regularly in terminal
2021-08-07 19:43:31 +0200 <c_wraith> wait. cassava uses bytestrings for input.
2021-08-07 19:43:55 +0200 <tomsmeding> perhaps post the actual byte contents of a failing bytestring?
2021-08-07 19:44:04 +0200 <c_wraith> how are you converting? OverloadedStrings doesn't really do the right thing for bytestring
2021-08-07 19:44:09 +0200 <raehik> OH so thaaat's why. I got the typevars the wrong way round
2021-08-07 19:44:12 +0200 <monochrom> Oh right, OverloadedString for ByteString is flawed.
2021-08-07 19:44:20 +0200 <tomsmeding> OverloadedStrings is evil
2021-08-07 19:44:30 +0200 <raehik> hahahaha thank you everyone
2021-08-07 19:44:32 +0200 <c_wraith> yeah, I never use it.
2021-08-07 19:44:50 +0200 <raehik> I did confirm it was sth to do with that, wrapping in (BL.fromStrict . Text.encodeUtf8) fixed it
2021-08-07 19:45:02 +0200 <monochrom> I use it when it's "abc123" not my Chinese name.
2021-08-07 19:45:03 +0200 <c_wraith> yep, that sounds right
2021-08-07 19:45:41 +0200AnselmSchler[m](~schuelerm@2001:470:69fc:105::d032)
2021-08-07 19:45:47 +0200 <c_wraith> honestly, turning on OverloadedStrings breaks things anyway.
2021-08-07 19:45:54 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
2021-08-07 19:47:36 +0200 <davean> OverloadedStrings with ByteString is scary
2021-08-07 19:47:53 +0200 <AnselmSchler[m]> why?
2021-08-07 19:48:05 +0200 <davean> AnselmSchler[m]: Because its an invalid instance
2021-08-07 19:48:24 +0200schuelermine(~anselmsch@user/schuelermine)
2021-08-07 19:48:43 +0200 <AnselmSchler[m]> davean: How so?
2021-08-07 19:48:49 +0200 <geekosaur> feed it utf8 and it will corrupt it
2021-08-07 19:48:50 +0200 <monochrom> You have literally just seen why.
2021-08-07 19:48:54 +0200schuelermine(~anselmsch@user/schuelermine) (Client Quit)
2021-08-07 19:49:00 +0200 <geekosaur> no, they joined too late to see it
2021-08-07 19:49:02 +0200 <monochrom> Err nevermind.
2021-08-07 19:49:04 +0200 <AnselmSchler[m]> monochrom: no I haven’ŧ
2021-08-07 19:49:11 +0200 <tomsmeding> The docs even say it :) https://hackage.haskell.org/package/bytestring-0.10.12.0/docs/Data-ByteString.html#t:ByteString
2021-08-07 19:49:16 +0200 <AnselmSchler[m]> I guess
2021-08-07 19:49:40 +0200 <tomsmeding> AnselmSchler[m]: https://ircbrowse.tomsmeding.com/day/lchaskell/today?id=129487#trid129487
2021-08-07 19:49:41 +0200 <davean> Theres no prescribed relation between ByteString and String
2021-08-07 19:49:42 +0200 <AnselmSchler[m]> but I wouldn’t consider that scary, since it’s a literal and you can just not put Unicode in there
2021-08-07 19:49:53 +0200 <davean> So it can't have a correct instance
2021-08-07 19:49:56 +0200 <tomsmeding> except someone did :)
2021-08-07 19:50:13 +0200 <AnselmSchler[m]> tomsmeding: ooh, I didn’t know that sort of website existed! Thanks for the link.
2021-08-07 19:50:39 +0200 <davean> AnselmSchler[m]: So if I put in code 200 in there, what is it?
2021-08-07 19:51:07 +0200 <AnselmSchler[m]> davean: what do you mean by that?
2021-08-07 19:51:32 +0200 <AnselmSchler[m]> U+00C8?
2021-08-07 19:51:33 +0200 <davean> If I have code point 200 in my string, and you use OverloadedStrings to ByteString, what is it?
2021-08-07 19:51:58 +0200 <AnselmSchler[m]> an error, I’d assume
2021-08-07 19:52:10 +0200 <davean> No, that instance never errors
2021-08-07 19:52:13 +0200 <davean> thats whats so scary about it
2021-08-07 19:52:16 +0200 <davean> it just does SOMETHING
2021-08-07 19:52:21 +0200 <davean> often, who the fuck knows what
2021-08-07 19:52:36 +0200 <AnselmSchler[m]> oh
2021-08-07 19:52:39 +0200 <AnselmSchler[m]> hm
2021-08-07 19:52:50 +0200 <AnselmSchler[m]> does it just do UTF8 encoding?
2021-08-07 19:53:01 +0200 <tomsmeding> no, it puts a byte with value 200 in the bytestring
2021-08-07 19:53:13 +0200 <tomsmeding> which is not what you want if you expect valid utf8 to come out
2021-08-07 19:53:17 +0200 <tomsmeding> (the docs say it! :p)
2021-08-07 19:53:19 +0200 <davean> tomsmeding: sure, once you know its that, but getting it there involves locals
2021-08-07 19:53:27 +0200 <tomsmeding> locals?
2021-08-07 19:53:29 +0200 <AnselmSchler[m]> tomsmeding: how does it do that?
2021-08-07 19:53:53 +0200 <davean> tomsmeding: *locales
2021-08-07 19:54:46 +0200 <davean> I once had this joy with that instance, back in the day, figuring out why something worked on one system and not another
2021-08-07 19:54:50 +0200 <AnselmSchler[m]> wait
2021-08-07 19:55:00 +0200 <AnselmSchler[m]> where is the problem with having a value 200 byte
2021-08-07 19:55:16 +0200 <geekosaur> because it's not utf8
2021-08-07 19:55:26 +0200 <geekosaur> and it's even worse for codepoints > 256
2021-08-07 19:55:27 +0200 <AnselmSchler[m]> oh
2021-08-07 19:55:27 +0200 <AnselmSchler[m]> I mean
2021-08-07 19:55:34 +0200 <geekosaur> where it just truncates
2021-08-07 19:55:35 +0200 <AnselmSchler[m]> geekosaur: what’s it do then?
2021-08-07 19:55:38 +0200 <AnselmSchler[m]> ah ok
2021-08-07 19:55:40 +0200 <tomsmeding> AnselmSchler[m]: if you follow the definitions here, you see it does what I said https://hackage.haskell.org/package/bytestring-0.10.12.0/docs/src/Data.ByteString.Internal.html#li…
2021-08-07 19:55:57 +0200 <tomsmeding> at some point it invokes c2w :: Char -> Word8 for each character in the string
2021-08-07 19:56:00 +0200 <davean> Its in the code page scope of ascii
2021-08-07 19:56:01 +0200 <tomsmeding> which truncates
2021-08-07 19:56:05 +0200 <AnselmSchler[m]> I feel like this is a reasonable implementation
2021-08-07 19:56:11 +0200 <geekosaur> it's just really broken
2021-08-07 19:56:14 +0200 <monochrom> It is equivalent to iso-latin-1.
2021-08-07 19:56:22 +0200 <davean> monochrom: I mean, soemtimes
2021-08-07 19:56:25 +0200 <AnselmSchler[m]> I would not expect a bytestring literal to encode with UTF8
2021-08-07 19:56:31 +0200 <monochrom> which is the most evil invention of them all.
2021-08-07 19:56:41 +0200 <davean> AnselmSchler[m]: but strings in Haskell *are* UTF-8
2021-08-07 19:56:48 +0200 <tomsmeding> AnselmSchler[m]: would you expect 'Data.Csv.decode Data.Csv.NoHeader "テスト"' to work with a csv library?
2021-08-07 19:56:57 +0200 <tomsmeding> it doesn't, because that csv library takes bytestrings :p
2021-08-07 19:57:12 +0200 <tomsmeding> taken from a real question by a real person in this channel just before you joined
2021-08-07 19:57:30 +0200 <AnselmSchler[m]> good point
2021-08-07 19:58:06 +0200 <tomsmeding> IsString for ByteString is in the same realm as fromIntegral; it's totally sensible if you know precisely what you're doing, but it's a huge footgun if you don't
2021-08-07 19:58:19 +0200 <tomsmeding> for minor ergonomics improvement
2021-08-07 19:58:38 +0200exarkun(~exarkun@user/exarkun)
2021-08-07 19:58:41 +0200 <raehik> it'd be nice to have a note on this in the Cassava lib, since I kind of expected to be able to mimic the examples in GHCi!
2021-08-07 20:00:37 +0200Erutuon(~Erutuon@user/erutuon)
2021-08-07 20:01:03 +0200 <tomsmeding> raehik: what do you get if you type "テスト" in your ghci, and what if you type 'fromString "テスト" :: ByteString'
2021-08-07 20:01:31 +0200 <tomsmeding> which example were you mimicing in ghci, precisely?
2021-08-07 20:01:47 +0200 <raehik> tomsmeding: "\198\185\200"
2021-08-07 20:01:59 +0200 <tomsmeding> that's the same as I get, fortunately
2021-08-07 20:02:07 +0200 <raehik> I was trying to do the simplest no-header decode I could do, without file loading
2021-08-07 20:02:15 +0200machinedgod(~machinedg@24.105.81.50) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2021-08-07 20:02:18 +0200talismanick(~user@2601:644:8502:d700::8fb8) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2021-08-07 20:02:45 +0200 <tomsmeding> I think this particular test doesn't have anything to do with ghci; it's just the IsString instance of ByteString that's biting you
2021-08-07 20:02:49 +0200 <raehik> decode @[Text] NoHeader "blablabla"
2021-08-07 20:02:52 +0200geekosaur(~geekosaur@xmonad/geekosaur) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-08-07 20:03:23 +0200 <raehik> Yes, you're right. glad I could get why it occurs cleared up too, thank you
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2021-08-07 20:07:40 +0200 <dsal> I've been trying to use hedgehog more because people say it's amazing and stuff. I can see some of the good parts, but it always feels way more imperative.
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2021-08-07 22:02:12 +0200wroathe(~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2021-08-07 22:02:31 +0200jgeerds(~jgeerds@55d45555.access.ecotel.net)
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2021-08-07 22:07:50 +0200juhp(~juhp@128.106.188.220)
2021-08-07 22:09:39 +0200 <c_wraith> Is there some known performance issue with listArray?
2021-08-07 22:10:00 +0200emliunix(~emliunix@2a09:bac0:23::815:b8b) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-08-07 22:10:17 +0200emliunix(~emliunix@103.138.75.119)
2021-08-07 22:10:20 +0200 <c_wraith> I benchmarked creating a mutable array and freezing it as faster which is... weird.
2021-08-07 22:11:10 +0200 <c_wraith> (just throwing an unevaluated thunk into each element)
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