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2021/06/16

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2021-06-16 01:57:10 +0200um(di6qsqm189@user/um) ()
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2021-06-16 02:53:09 +0200 <spider_> is there an inbuilt split function? eg split "," "hi, how are you? that's, awesome"
2021-06-16 02:53:15 +0200 <spider_> would return 3 elements
2021-06-16 02:53:59 +0200econo(uid147250@user/econo) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2021-06-16 02:54:42 +0200 <ski> > splitOn "," "hi, how are you? that's, awesome"
2021-06-16 02:54:44 +0200 <lambdabot> ["hi"," how are you? that's"," awesome"]
2021-06-16 02:55:23 +0200 <ski> @hackage split
2021-06-16 02:55:24 +0200 <lambdabot> https://hackage.haskell.org/package/split
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2021-06-16 02:57:12 +0200 <spider_> thank you!
2021-06-16 02:58:45 +0200 <spider_> I can't seem to import it
2021-06-16 02:59:12 +0200 <spider_> oh I have to install it
2021-06-16 03:01:06 +0200yd502(~yd502@180.168.212.6)
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2021-06-16 03:14:33 +0200DDR(~DDR@2604:3d08:4c7e:8600:899d:7922:1b3d:4bf)
2021-06-16 03:16:28 +0200lavaman(~lavaman@98.38.249.169)
2021-06-16 03:17:02 +0200 <pavonia> Is there a similar function that allows you to split based on different sublists?
2021-06-16 03:17:39 +0200 <pavonia> e.g. split' ["__", ","] "foo__bar,baz" == ["foo", "bar", "baz"]
2021-06-16 03:18:15 +0200 <Axman6> > splitOn "__" "foo__bar,baz" >>= splitOn ","
2021-06-16 03:18:16 +0200 <lambdabot> ["foo","bar","baz"]
2021-06-16 03:19:20 +0200 <Axman6> not that I know of, but making that into a function wouldn't be hard
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2021-06-16 03:20:22 +0200 <pavonia> Hhm
2021-06-16 03:20:37 +0200Ram-Z(Ram-Z@2a01:7e01::f03c:91ff:fe57:d2df)
2021-06-16 03:20:38 +0200 <Axman6> % let splitAll [] str = [str]; splitAll (x:xs) str = splitOn x str >>= splitAll xs in splitAll ["__", ","] "foo__bar,baz"
2021-06-16 03:20:38 +0200 <yahb> Axman6: ["foo","bar","baz"]
2021-06-16 03:21:29 +0200 <pavonia> % let splitAll [] str = [str]; splitAll (x:xs) str = splitOn x str >>= splitAll xs in splitAll ["foo","bar","baz"] "foo__bar,baz"
2021-06-16 03:21:29 +0200 <yahb> pavonia: ["","__",",",""]
2021-06-16 03:21:43 +0200 <pavonia> Nice
2021-06-16 03:22:20 +0200 <pavonia> % split "" "foobar"
2021-06-16 03:22:21 +0200 <yahb> pavonia: ; <interactive>:7:7: error:; * Couldn't match type: [Char]; with: Splitter Char; Expected: Splitter Char; Actual: String; * In the first argument of `split', namely `""'; In the expression: split "" "foobar"; In an equation for `it': it = split "" "foobar"
2021-06-16 03:22:35 +0200 <pavonia> % splitOn "" "foobar"
2021-06-16 03:22:35 +0200 <yahb> pavonia: ["","f","o","o","b","a","r"]
2021-06-16 03:23:04 +0200 <pavonia> Why doesn't it match at the final position too?
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2021-06-16 04:02:05 +0200novanovasenco
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2021-06-16 04:11:38 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
2021-06-16 04:12:44 +0200 <dmwit> pavonia: From the docs: "Note that splitting on the empty list is a special case."
2021-06-16 04:13:01 +0200 <dmwit> https://hackage.haskell.org/package/split-0.2.3.4/docs/Data-List-Split.html#v:onSublist
2021-06-16 04:13:08 +0200 <dmwit> (splitOn uses onSublist)
2021-06-16 04:13:26 +0200 <dmwit> :t foldM
2021-06-16 04:13:27 +0200 <lambdabot> (Foldable t, Monad m) => (b -> a -> m b) -> b -> t a -> m b
2021-06-16 04:14:11 +0200 <dmwit> % foldM (flip splitOn) "foo__bar,baz" ["foo", "bar", "baz"]
2021-06-16 04:14:12 +0200 <yahb> dmwit: ["","__",",",""]
2021-06-16 04:14:33 +0200 <dmwit> Don't write your own recursion! ;-)
2021-06-16 04:16:30 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
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2021-06-16 07:02:49 +0200mikko(~mikko@2a02:7b40:d418:6a61::1)
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2021-06-16 07:04:23 +0200theneo(~sakthig@122.181.48.188)
2021-06-16 07:06:43 +0200 <mikko> am i missing something or is it true there is only readOct and readHex and no readBin?
2021-06-16 07:07:21 +0200TheRAt(~TheRAt@user/therat) (Quit: :))
2021-06-16 07:08:10 +0200TheRAt(~TheRAt@user/therat)
2021-06-16 07:13:44 +0200 <sshine> mikko, it appears that there's only readDec, readOct and readHex in base, yes.
2021-06-16 07:14:11 +0200 <mikko> huh, that's a bit weird
2021-06-16 07:14:28 +0200rk04(~rk04@user/rajk)
2021-06-16 07:14:34 +0200zmt00(~zmt00@user/zmt00) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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2021-06-16 07:15:57 +0200yd502(~yd502@180.168.212.6)
2021-06-16 07:16:24 +0200 <sshine> I wouldn't say weird. if you think about how many languages have special syntax for different number bases, you mostly see languages that let you specify decimal, 0octal and 0xhex, and rarely 0bbinary. wouldn't you agree?
2021-06-16 07:16:56 +0200Codaraxis_(~Codaraxis@ip68-5-90-227.oc.oc.cox.net)
2021-06-16 07:17:03 +0200 <mikko> i've mostly dealt with languages with the 0bbinary
2021-06-16 07:17:09 +0200 <sshine> ah, okay.
2021-06-16 07:17:16 +0200 <sshine> I've most often missed it.
2021-06-16 07:17:51 +0200 <sshine> they seem to be defined here: https://hackage.haskell.org/package/base-4.15.0.0/docs/src/Numeric.html#readOct -- that is, using ReadP parsers from Text.Read.Lex: https://hackage.haskell.org/package/base-4.15.0.0/docs/src/Text-Read-Lex.html#readOctP
2021-06-16 07:18:16 +0200mengu(~mengu@c188-150-13-129.bredband.tele2.se)
2021-06-16 07:18:29 +0200 <sshine> those combinators actually seem to have been built with flexibility for more number bases.
2021-06-16 07:18:29 +0200Codaraxis(~Codaraxis@s13490149139.blix.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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2021-06-16 07:19:41 +0200hololeap(hololeap@user/hololeap)
2021-06-16 07:20:26 +0200 <mikko> actually i'm having a hard time finding a language that doesn't have 0b11.. C, ruby, python, js, julia all have it
2021-06-16 07:20:40 +0200mikoto-chan(~mikoto-ch@ip-213-49-189-31.dsl.scarlet.be)
2021-06-16 07:21:03 +0200 <mikko> but i guess it's simple enough to define readBin with readInt
2021-06-16 07:21:06 +0200 <sshine> interesting! I wonder if my memory is wrong.
2021-06-16 07:21:10 +0200 <sshine> yeah :)
2021-06-16 07:21:28 +0200 <sshine> :t Text.Read.Lex.readIntP 2 (`elem` "01") (\c -> ord c - ord '0')
2021-06-16 07:21:29 +0200 <lambdabot> Num a => Text.ParserCombinators.ReadP.ReadP a
2021-06-16 07:22:42 +0200mengu(~mengu@c188-150-13-129.bredband.tele2.se) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-06-16 07:23:44 +0200 <sshine> :t Text.ParserCombinators.ReadP.readP_to_S (Text.Read.Lex.readIntP 2 (`elem` "01") (\c -> ord c - ord '0'))
2021-06-16 07:23:45 +0200 <lambdabot> Num a => ReadS a
2021-06-16 07:23:54 +0200beka_(~beka@104.193.170-244.PUBLIC.monkeybrains.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-06-16 07:24:08 +0200 <sshine> which is just an alias for 'String -> [(a, String)]': https://hackage.haskell.org/package/base-4.15.0.0/docs/GHC-Read.html#t:ReadS
2021-06-16 07:24:27 +0200 <mikko> i went with readBin s = head [num | (num, "") <- readInt 2 (`elem` "01") digitToInt s]
2021-06-16 07:25:18 +0200 <sshine> maybe readBin should be added.
2021-06-16 07:30:41 +0200lavaman(~lavaman@98.38.249.169)
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2021-06-16 07:50:26 +0200 <dsal> I wrote some code using scotty and have some unit tests using `testWithApplication` to bind to a port and then use wreq to make requests against http://localhost:[port]/. It's absurdly slow. Most of the time seems to be spent doing something related to base64 decoding down inside a PEM parser. Any idea what's going on here?
2021-06-16 07:51:02 +0200 <dsal> Sucks because nothing in the profile is even code I want called, much less am trying to call.
2021-06-16 07:51:18 +0200ixlun(~matthew@213.205.241.86) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-06-16 07:51:33 +0200 <dsal> Example top of profile: https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/TvFpBoRp/sucks.prof
2021-06-16 07:52:55 +0200 <dminuoso> Damn I recall that same problem when I was on macOS
2021-06-16 07:54:30 +0200 <dminuoso> dsal: Just out of curiosity, what cost center generation do you use?
2021-06-16 07:55:05 +0200 <dsal> Heh, I don't know what I'm doing here, just ran `stack test --profile` to see which of my dumb functions needed to be speed up.
2021-06-16 07:58:14 +0200 <dminuoso> dsal: Can you try running getSystemCertificateStore in isolation? My memory is sketchy, but I think it's just a slow process.
2021-06-16 07:58:36 +0200 <dminuoso> (Maybe the result is not cached properly due to the way your tests are set up)
2021-06-16 07:59:06 +0200Erutuon(~Erutuon@user/erutuon) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-06-16 08:00:52 +0200 <dsal> That returned quickly enough. I'm doing property tests making http requests into a server I brought up with `testWithApplication` -- I've got it down to 5 tests, but it might have up to 100 (*2) HTTP requests to make against the server. I'm running those concurrently, but that seems to be where all the time is. I can't tell if it's the client or the server from here.
2021-06-16 08:01:56 +0200 <dminuoso> Perhaps you could grab `certificates`, modify `getSystemCertificateStore` to maybe log a line every time its called, vendor it, and observe?
2021-06-16 08:02:11 +0200 <dminuoso> There's likely better options, so this is just a pragmatic idea
2021-06-16 08:03:05 +0200 <dsal> The annoying part is that I'm not doing anything that should involve a certificate in the first place.
2021-06-16 08:03:39 +0200 <dminuoso> Can you put out the profiling data in call tree shape?
2021-06-16 08:03:44 +0200 <dminuoso> It should be obvious what calls it
2021-06-16 08:04:17 +0200 <dsal> https://github.com/haskell/wreq/issues/128 <-- oh hey. I think someone's seen this before.
2021-06-16 08:05:00 +0200Guest71(~Guest71@host-79-36-63-89.retail.telecomitalia.it)
2021-06-16 08:05:41 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@86.106.121.100)
2021-06-16 08:06:13 +0200 <dminuoso> As far as I can remember, the behavior seemed reasonable to me at the time.
2021-06-16 08:06:27 +0200 <dminuoso> If you could provide a more detailed profiling graph that might be helpful
2021-06-16 08:07:28 +0200 <dminuoso> (with the call free and perhaps with profiling-detail: all-functions)
2021-06-16 08:07:54 +0200sbmsr(~pi@2600:1700:63d0:4830:7dbf:92d8:fd42:235d) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-06-16 08:08:57 +0200 <dsal> Here's the whole file. It's a bit big, but if you have a wide enough screen, you can make it out. :) https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/r6Xu7kOR/shortening-test.prof
2021-06-16 08:09:24 +0200 <dminuoso> hah it crashes my emacsclient!
2021-06-16 08:09:30 +0200azeem(~azeem@dynamic-adsl-78-13-238-239.clienti.tiscali.it)
2021-06-16 08:09:54 +0200wroathe(~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-06-16 08:10:11 +0200 <dsal> I'm just using less -S
2021-06-16 08:10:13 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@86.106.121.100) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-06-16 08:10:25 +0200 <dminuoso> dsal: Ah I think I found it.
2021-06-16 08:10:38 +0200 <dminuoso> Is it possible you create a new manager for each test?
2021-06-16 08:10:58 +0200 <dsal> It's quite possible. I'm just using wreq in the most basic dumb way.
2021-06-16 08:11:10 +0200 <dminuoso> https://hackage.haskell.org/package/http-client-0.7.8/docs/Network-HTTP-Client.html#v:newManager
2021-06-16 08:11:28 +0200sbmsr(~pi@2600:1700:63d0:4830:7dbf:92d8:fd42:235d)
2021-06-16 08:12:14 +0200 <dminuoso> newManager Network.HTTP.Client.Manager Network/HTTP/Client/Manager.hs:(107,1)-(134,18) 74862 253 0.0 0.0 45.1 44.3
2021-06-16 08:12:24 +0200mengu(~mengu@c188-150-13-129.bredband.tele2.se)
2021-06-16 08:12:41 +0200 <dminuoso> So yeah. This is an expensive operation because it creates a full certificate store each time it seems.
2021-06-16 08:12:59 +0200 <dsal> I'll see if the wreq session thing helps.
2021-06-16 08:13:58 +0200 <dsal> Yeah, that's... significantly faster.
2021-06-16 08:14:26 +0200 <dsal> OK. So I guess creating a new manager everytime implicitly by using wreq the dumb way is a bad idae.
2021-06-16 08:15:12 +0200 <dsal> Cool, this is usably fast now. Thanks. :)
2021-06-16 08:17:37 +0200mengu(~mengu@c188-150-13-129.bredband.tele2.se) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
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2021-06-16 12:08:59 +0200jakalx(~jakalx@base.jakalx.net) ()
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2021-06-16 12:14:31 +0200haskman(~haskman@223.179.135.194)
2021-06-16 12:14:44 +0200 <kuribas> Is there some abstraction that has ordering, but not equality? For example timeseries: [(t, v)], where you can compare the time, but a value at the same time is not necessarily equal.
2021-06-16 12:15:08 +0200 <kuribas> it would allow for merging of timeseries.
2021-06-16 12:15:44 +0200 <tomsmeding> kuribas: a == b = compare a b == EQ
2021-06-16 12:16:01 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@86.106.121.100)
2021-06-16 12:18:08 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-06-16 12:18:30 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
2021-06-16 12:20:20 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@86.106.121.100) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-06-16 12:22:29 +0200eggplantade(~Eggplanta@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:cded:c7cb:4d63:a64a)
2021-06-16 12:25:20 +0200 <dminuoso> kuribas: Do you mean a preorder?
2021-06-16 12:25:57 +0200 <kuribas> dminuoso: I suppose?
2021-06-16 12:26:36 +0200 <kuribas> for example, this doesn't allow for merging values: https://hackage.haskell.org/package/data-ordlist-0.4.7.0/docs/Data-List-Ordered.html
2021-06-16 12:26:56 +0200eggplantade(~Eggplanta@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:cded:c7cb:4d63:a64a) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-06-16 12:27:27 +0200pera(~pera@user/pera)
2021-06-16 12:27:55 +0200 <arahael> Aeson converts arbitrary structures into json, using generics. It's amazing, but how do I generate a schema for it? I've found https://hackage.haskell.org/package/jsonschema-gen-0.4.1.0/docs/Data-JSON-Schema-Generator.html but it's really old, and has a few other concerning issues. Any other recommendations?
2021-06-16 12:28:21 +0200 <arahael> Compiles and apparently works well, though... (Haven't tested it though)
2021-06-16 12:28:31 +0200 <dminuoso> arahael: what kind of schema specification are you looking for?
2021-06-16 12:28:33 +0200 <dminuoso> OpenAPI3?
2021-06-16 12:28:41 +0200 <dminuoso> JSON Schema?
2021-06-16 12:28:53 +0200pbrisbin(~patrick@pool-72-92-38-164.phlapa.fios.verizon.net)
2021-06-16 12:29:14 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-06-16 12:29:21 +0200 <arahael> Yeah, json schema, but happy to support anything that lets me spit out a parser for the aeson's json in some other language (such as in this particular case: Swift)
2021-06-16 12:29:24 +0200MQ-17J(~MQ-17J@d14-69-206-129.try.wideopenwest.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-06-16 12:29:38 +0200MQ-17J(~MQ-17J@d14-69-206-129.try.wideopenwest.com)
2021-06-16 12:29:44 +0200 <dminuoso> Try openapi3, in parts its an extended form of json schema
2021-06-16 12:30:04 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
2021-06-16 12:30:17 +0200 <dminuoso> You might get away with it
2021-06-16 12:31:15 +0200 <arahael> That looks better, actually.
2021-06-16 12:31:16 +0200 <dminuoso> kuribas: I guess you could use an `IntMap [T]` with `inserting t = insertWith (<>) [t]` as an approximation
2021-06-16 12:31:22 +0200 <arahael> dminuoso: Thanks :D
2021-06-16 12:31:43 +0200o1lo01ol1o(~o1lo01ol1@bl7-89-228.dsl.telepac.pt)
2021-06-16 12:32:25 +0200 <kuribas> dminuoso: no, because they are ranges, not events.
2021-06-16 12:33:14 +0200 <dminuoso> kuribas: What would that preorder look like?
2021-06-16 12:33:29 +0200 <dminuoso> Would it be some <= relation on the starting timestamp of the range?
2021-06-16 12:33:39 +0200 <kuribas> yeah
2021-06-16 12:34:00 +0200 <dminuoso> When do things "overlap" with that?
2021-06-16 12:34:15 +0200 <dminuoso> i.e. what does "same time" even mean?
2021-06-16 12:34:17 +0200sbmsr(~pi@2600:1700:63d0:4830:7dbf:92d8:fd42:235d) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-06-16 12:34:30 +0200 <dminuoso> (if we only compare say the lower bound of the range)
2021-06-16 12:35:31 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
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2021-06-16 12:39:42 +0200hmmmas(~chenqisu1@183.217.200.246)
2021-06-16 12:40:29 +0200 <arahael> Just tested it - jsonschema-gen doesn't appear to work as expected, somehow pleased, OpenAPI looks far more appropriate.
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2021-06-16 13:43:46 +0200hello20(~hello@cpc97208-walt22-2-0-cust196.13-2.cable.virginm.net)
2021-06-16 13:44:00 +0200kmein(~weechat@user/kmein)
2021-06-16 13:44:18 +0200 <hello20> I have an error installing ghcup on my mac
2021-06-16 13:44:30 +0200 <hello20> the error is: Digest error: expected "43d2ef356fb8cbd8e27acf70f94c079157258916bb1220751547584513584aaa", but got "9863f00928f72cf0a16bd3f3578ac55704c721bc77148273d909fd895d05c783"
2021-06-16 13:44:51 +0200 <hello20> No further assistance seems to be available
2021-06-16 13:44:59 +0200raehik(~raehik@cpc95906-rdng25-2-0-cust156.15-3.cable.virginm.net)
2021-06-16 13:45:55 +0200 <hello20> repeating the installation command results in the same or similar outcome
2021-06-16 13:46:33 +0200 <hello20> can anyone suggest what to try next?
2021-06-16 13:46:42 +0200 <nitrix> hello20, Can you check .ghcup/logs for more information?
2021-06-16 13:47:04 +0200cross(~cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net) (Quit: leaving)
2021-06-16 13:47:14 +0200zaquest(~notzaques@5.128.210.178) (Quit: Leaving)
2021-06-16 13:47:43 +0200 <hello20> yes, did that and the log simply contains the same error message
2021-06-16 13:48:11 +0200cross(~cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net)
2021-06-16 13:48:15 +0200zaquest(~notzaques@5.128.210.178)
2021-06-16 13:48:17 +0200 <hello20> btw, thanks for answering nitrix
2021-06-16 13:48:23 +0200 <nitrix> Looks like a corrupted download. Someone reported the same problem in 2020 and from the channel logs, seems like the last message was maerwald saying to re-ask ghcup to download with ~/.ghcup/bin/ghcup --downloader wget install ghc 9.0.1
2021-06-16 13:48:31 +0200shredder(~shredder@user/shredder)
2021-06-16 13:48:54 +0200 <nitrix> See https://ircbrowse.tomsmeding.com/day/haskell/2020/10/15 and search "DigestError".
2021-06-16 13:49:31 +0200fizbin(~fizbin@2601:8a:4080:1280:8c7e:5b3f:79d6:ec26) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-06-16 13:51:12 +0200 <hello20> Yes, I have an older version of ghc installed, 8.*
2021-06-16 13:53:50 +0200y04nn(~y04nn@81.17.24.204) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
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2021-06-16 13:55:20 +0200nikoo
2021-06-16 13:55:46 +0200 <hello20> OK, I think I have to first upgrade ghc then install ghcup. Will try that. Thanks for the suggestions
2021-06-16 13:58:01 +0200yaroot(~yaroot@6.3.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp) (Quit: The Lounge - https://thelounge.chat)
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2021-06-16 13:58:16 +0200 <nitrix> I found other posts online that seems to hint about issues with old GHC on newer mac versions, they ended up upgrading GHC to fix the problem.
2021-06-16 13:58:50 +0200yaroot(~yaroot@6.3.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp)
2021-06-16 13:58:59 +0200 <nitrix> Can't hurt to try.
2021-06-16 13:59:29 +0200 <merijn> I mean, that'd have to be a pretty old GHC though?
2021-06-16 13:59:38 +0200 <merijn> Or truly bleeding edge mac, I guess
2021-06-16 13:59:58 +0200 <nitrix> Yeah, was Catalina when Catalina had just come out.
2021-06-16 14:00:34 +0200 <nitrix> Kinda strange that it manifest itself in the form of a bad digest.
2021-06-16 14:00:35 +0200 <merijn> I'm on Catalina and still use mostly 8.6 and 8.10 as defaults without any real issues
2021-06-16 14:01:54 +0200 <nitrix> Would've been nice if you had had issues, then we'd have someone know what to do, hehe :P
2021-06-16 14:02:22 +0200aplainzetakind(~johndoe@captainludd.powered.by.lunarbnc.net) (Quit: Free ZNC ~ Powered by LunarBNC: https://LunarBNC.net)
2021-06-16 14:02:54 +0200hexo(~hexo@user/hexo)
2021-06-16 14:02:59 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@86.106.121.100)
2021-06-16 14:03:16 +0200aplainzetakind(~johndoe@captainludd.powered.by.lunarbnc.net)
2021-06-16 14:04:58 +0200unyu(~pyon@user/pyon)
2021-06-16 14:05:17 +0200 <nitrix> Found another case (https://ircbrowse.tomsmeding.com/day/haskell/2020/09/27), says corrupted download (bindist was suspected but ended up fine). They did ~/.ghcup/bin/ghcup --downloader=wget install ghc, which didn't work because they didn't have wget, but that seems like a recurring theme for the solution.
2021-06-16 14:07:41 +0200dunkeln(~dunkeln@94.129.65.28)
2021-06-16 14:08:01 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@86.106.121.100) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-06-16 14:13:34 +0200 <maerwald> hello20: so you're on darwin and trying to install hls?
2021-06-16 14:14:45 +0200obscur1ty(~obscur1ty@user/obscur1ty)
2021-06-16 14:16:00 +0200dhil(~dhil@195.213.192.47)
2021-06-16 14:19:43 +0200 <maerwald> hello20: it appears upstream (hls developers) changed the .tar.gz archive in-place
2021-06-16 14:19:44 +0200obscur1ty(~obscur1ty@user/obscur1ty) (Quit: Leaving)
2021-06-16 14:19:55 +0200 <maerwald> so it's expected that this throws an error
2021-06-16 14:20:01 +0200obs\(~obscur1ty@102.41.69.204)
2021-06-16 14:20:01 +0200 <maerwald> jneira ^
2021-06-16 14:20:17 +0200 <merijn> maerwald: That's what you get for trusting upstream ;)
2021-06-16 14:20:56 +0200 <maerwald> maybe they added a missing GHC there, I'm not sure
2021-06-16 14:21:28 +0200pera(~pera@70.red-88-14-152.dynamicip.rima-tde.net)
2021-06-16 14:21:51 +0200peraGuest710
2021-06-16 14:22:16 +0200eggplantade(~Eggplanta@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:cded:c7cb:4d63:a64a)
2021-06-16 14:22:58 +0200 <maerwald> hello20: ghcup --no-verify install hls 1.2.0
2021-06-16 14:23:26 +0200dunkeln(~dunkeln@94.129.65.28) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-06-16 14:26:27 +0200 <maerwald> merijn: https://github.com/haskell/haskell-language-server/issues/1438
2021-06-16 14:26:42 +0200sekun(~sekun@180.190.208.124) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-06-16 14:27:02 +0200 <maerwald> maybe this needs another nudge
2021-06-16 14:27:08 +0200 <nitrix> Oh-oh. They'll go on Santa's naughty list.
2021-06-16 14:27:08 +0200eggplantade(~Eggplanta@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:cded:c7cb:4d63:a64a) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-06-16 14:27:44 +0200 <merijn> maerwald: tbh, the state of gpg UX is an embarassment to tech as a field >.>
2021-06-16 14:28:16 +0200jlamothe(~jlamothe@198.251.57.81)
2021-06-16 14:28:59 +0200azeem(~azeem@176.201.22.245) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-06-16 14:29:21 +0200azeem(~azeem@176.201.22.245)
2021-06-16 14:30:10 +0200 <nitrix> I'm unclear if they're installing ghcup, installing ghc using ghcup, or installing hls using ghcup. ^ hello20
2021-06-16 14:30:30 +0200 <maerwald> the last one, bc that's the hash of hls 1.2.0 on darwin
2021-06-16 14:30:48 +0200 <maerwald> which just changed
2021-06-16 14:31:45 +0200 <dminuoso> merijn: I dont know what you mean. gpg is the definition of a superb user experience.
2021-06-16 14:31:57 +0200 <dminuoso> I never have to consult a man page to use it. I just google for stackoverflow answers and copy paste those.
2021-06-16 14:32:04 +0200 <maerwald> lol
2021-06-16 14:32:17 +0200fizbin(~fizbin@2601:8a:4080:1280:8c7e:5b3f:79d6:ec26)
2021-06-16 14:32:21 +0200 <maerwald> `tldr gpg`
2021-06-16 14:32:49 +0200 <maerwald> your direct interface to SO
2021-06-16 14:33:18 +0200 <dminuoso> See, what we really need is a browser plugin that automatically executes a selected region in a shell.
2021-06-16 14:33:25 +0200 <dminuoso> To simplify this workflow
2021-06-16 14:34:38 +0200neceve(~quassel@2a02:c7f:607e:d600:a95a:ecd2:e57a:3130) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-06-16 14:35:38 +0200dhil(~dhil@195.213.192.47) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-06-16 14:35:41 +0200 <nitrix> maerwald, Thank you by the way. I have no idea how this stuff works and was scrambling around trying to piece out information x]
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2021-06-16 15:32:52 +0200 <bmo> What is a good approach of parsing (very large) XML files? I started off with using xml-conduit as it seems a good suit but maybe I am wrong
2021-06-16 15:33:00 +0200azeem(~azeem@176.201.22.245) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-06-16 15:33:06 +0200 <bmo> I currently have a minor problem with that: paste.tomsmeding.com/WyuOXLLK
2021-06-16 15:33:14 +0200azeem(~azeem@176.201.43.174)
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2021-06-16 15:34:39 +0200raehik(~raehik@cpc95906-rdng25-2-0-cust156.15-3.cable.virginm.net)
2021-06-16 15:34:54 +0200 <bmo> So basically I cannot assume an order on the xml-tags. With that example an entry consists of `persons` (multiple fields that contain a `Text`) and `title` which is `Text` too. The naive way of just parsing `persons` first and then the `title` breaks as soon as the XML is not following the same order (duh)
2021-06-16 15:35:32 +0200 <bmo> Is there an elegant way of parsing such XML without breaking down my `Entry`'s fields, parsing them first and then re-order+validate?
2021-06-16 15:38:00 +0200 <bmo> In that small example my current approach works for `bs0` but for `bs1` it breaks as `title` precedes the `person`s (the might actually be interleaved in reality, so `<person>...<title>...<person>...` etc.))
2021-06-16 15:39:15 +0200nschoe(~quassel@2a01:e0a:8e:a190:4dc0:5be8:9ad8:a5a4)
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2021-06-16 15:41:45 +0200dunkeln(~dunkeln@94.129.65.28) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-06-16 15:41:52 +0200 <shapr> Anyone want to suggest improvements to https://github.com/shapr/takedouble/blob/main/src/Takedouble.hs#L71 and the saneFile function below?
2021-06-16 15:42:06 +0200 <shapr> I feel like there's a better and/or simpler approach to that.
2021-06-16 15:42:36 +0200dunkeln(~dunkeln@94.129.65.28)
2021-06-16 15:43:56 +0200 <dminuoso> bmo: AttrParser is an Alternative, so you can use this https://hackage.haskell.org/package/parser-combinators-1.3.0/docs/Control-Monad-Permutations.html
2021-06-16 15:44:13 +0200aplainzetakind(~johndoe@captainludd.powered.by.lunarbnc.net) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-06-16 15:45:45 +0200 <dminuoso> Im a bit surprised, does AttrParser not do this for you already?
2021-06-16 15:46:49 +0200Tuplanolla(~Tuplanoll@91-159-68-239.elisa-laajakaista.fi)
2021-06-16 15:47:07 +0200 <dminuoso> Judging from the implementation, the order shouldn't matter.
2021-06-16 15:47:28 +0200 <bmo> dminuoso, actually the attributes are valid up to permutation true. I haven't noticed.
2021-06-16 15:47:36 +0200aplainzetakind(~johndoe@captainludd.powered.by.lunarbnc.net)
2021-06-16 15:48:05 +0200 <dminuoso> So when you said "breaks", is that what you think it happens?
2021-06-16 15:48:08 +0200 <dminuoso> Have you actually tried it?
2021-06-16 15:48:29 +0200 <bmo> But my problem is with actual tags. So I have `<e> <p>x</p> <t>y</t> </e>` but sometimes `<e> <t>y</t> <p>x</p> </e>`
2021-06-16 15:49:08 +0200 <bmo> dminuoso, I just tested permuting the attributes and that works. But the permuted tags don't which, in hindsight, is expected
2021-06-16 15:49:12 +0200eggplantade(~Eggplanta@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:cded:c7cb:4d63:a64a)
2021-06-16 15:49:13 +0200 <dminuoso> Ahh
2021-06-16 15:49:15 +0200 <shapr> Hm, I think I'll convert the "get all files in all subdirectories" function into something that could run in a bunch of threads, just to see if that's faster.
2021-06-16 15:49:29 +0200 <dminuoso> bmo: Yeah I dont think permutation on tags can reasonably work in conduit-xml
2021-06-16 15:49:34 +0200 <shapr> I've read NVMe drives work best with a deep queue of requests
2021-06-16 15:49:42 +0200 <maerwald> shapr: threading over filesystem operations? :>
2021-06-16 15:49:52 +0200 <dminuoso> bmo: For starters, what does "permutation" even mean? A naive take on XML is that it's a tree.
2021-06-16 15:50:38 +0200muto(~muto@d75-159-225-7.abhsia.telus.net)
2021-06-16 15:50:46 +0200 <shapr> maerwald: yeah, I think it could speed up reading a bunch of files to check for duplicates
2021-06-16 15:51:10 +0200 <shapr> maerwald: I'm also slowly working my way towards this kind of thing: https://www.tbray.org/ongoing/When/202x/2021/03/27/Topfew-and-Amdahl
2021-06-16 15:51:16 +0200oo_miguel(~pi@89-72-187-203.dynamic.chello.pl) (Quit: WeeChat 2.3)
2021-06-16 15:51:19 +0200sbmsr(~pi@104-6-130-18.lightspeed.miamfl.sbcglobal.net) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-06-16 15:51:20 +0200 <bmo> Well within an `<e>` (I'm just using abbreviations of that example I gave) "fields" are sometimes permuted, ie. not in a particular order
2021-06-16 15:51:28 +0200 <shapr> that is, a count min sketch on top of Apache logs
2021-06-16 15:51:40 +0200 <bmo> Luckily the leaves in such an `<e>` are always small, so the wouldn't nest further.
2021-06-16 15:51:59 +0200 <shapr> maerwald: at least for that post, reading multiple pieces of a large file in different threads was faster
2021-06-16 15:52:23 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@86.106.121.100)
2021-06-16 15:52:48 +0200 <dminuoso> bmo: You can <|> NameMatchers together
2021-06-16 15:53:42 +0200eggplantade(~Eggplanta@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:cded:c7cb:4d63:a64a) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-06-16 15:54:21 +0200 <dminuoso> bmo: It seems you'd have to do something along these lines:
2021-06-16 15:54:56 +0200 <bmo> dminuoso, so I'd have to (with xml-conduit that is) parse the tags into something isomorphic to `data ELeave = P Text | T Text` and then re-order+validate once I parsed all of `<e>`'s leaves?
2021-06-16 15:56:28 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@86.106.121.100) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2021-06-16 15:58:33 +0200 <dminuoso> bmo: Something along the lines of: data Ki = Ent | Per | Tit; isEntry :: A -> Maybe Ki; isPerson :: A -> Maybe Ki; tag (isEntry <|> isPerson) (\case of Ent -> ...; Per -> ...; Tit -> ...)
2021-06-16 15:58:50 +0200 <dminuoso> This will become very awkward to write I think
2021-06-16 15:59:10 +0200 <dminuoso> Since you then have to keep track what kind of element you have consumed
2021-06-16 15:59:12 +0200 <bmo> Yeah :( I kinda wanted to avoid this somehow
2021-06-16 16:00:06 +0200 <bmo> Especially since that is a small example and the real thing is quite a bit bigger
2021-06-16 16:01:21 +0200 <dminuoso> bmo: have you considered tagsoup perhaps?
2021-06-16 16:02:12 +0200 <bmo> No, so far I only considered xml-conduit and had a quick look at how I can use DtdToHaskell with HaXml but conduit seemed simpler.
2021-06-16 16:02:40 +0200 <bmo> I was not aware of tagsoup, I'll have a look at it. Thanks a lot for your assistance!
2021-06-16 16:02:52 +0200 <dminuoso> with tagsoup you can convert it straight into a plain tree, that might be much easier to work with for you
2021-06-16 16:03:23 +0200 <dminuoso> https://hackage.haskell.org/package/tagsoup-0.14.8/docs/Text-HTML-TagSoup-Tree.html#v:parseTreeOpt…
2021-06-16 16:05:50 +0200cfricke(~cfricke@user/cfricke) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-06-16 16:06:14 +0200 <dminuoso> Or even a plain tagsoup list https://hackage.haskell.org/package/tagsoup-0.14.8/docs/Text-HTML-TagSoup.html#v:parseTagsOptions
2021-06-16 16:06:44 +0200lechner(~lechner@letbox-vps.us-core.com) (Quit: WeeChat 3.0)
2021-06-16 16:08:40 +0200zeenk(~zeenk@188.26.30.39) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2021-06-16 16:08:59 +0200lechner(~lechner@letbox-vps.us-core.com)
2021-06-16 16:09:47 +0200 <bmo> I am a bit concerned about the size of the files (~1G) but it might be negligible. I'll try to work with that and will see
2021-06-16 16:10:26 +0200 <merijn> bmo: xml-conduit is great for scraping schema-less XML, but it's not really well suited to XML with an actual schema
2021-06-16 16:10:55 +0200 <merijn> That said, HaXml always looked confusing as hell to me, and I wouldn't dare assume it handles huge inputs gracefully
2021-06-16 16:11:44 +0200shredder(~shredder@user/shredder)
2021-06-16 16:12:54 +0200Pickchea(~private@user/pickchea)
2021-06-16 16:14:13 +0200 <maerwald> it uses arrows, no?
2021-06-16 16:14:24 +0200 <bmo> Yes ^^
2021-06-16 16:14:35 +0200 <maerwald> no one knows what they are for
2021-06-16 16:14:36 +0200 <maerwald> :>
2021-06-16 16:15:19 +0200 <dminuoso> merijn: well if the relative order of tags at some parent is unknown, xml-conduit seems very uncomfortable to use.
2021-06-16 16:15:38 +0200 <dminuoso> Did I miss some combinator to do permutation-style tag parsing?
2021-06-16 16:15:42 +0200 <merijn> How so?
2021-06-16 16:16:18 +0200jao(jao@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/jao)
2021-06-16 16:16:27 +0200 <dminuoso> Say you have <foo><bar></bar><quux></quux></foo>, and you want it to parse whether bar or quux have been swapped around or not.
2021-06-16 16:17:27 +0200 <dminuoso> As far as I can tell, `tag` commits to a particular chosen tag
2021-06-16 16:17:38 +0200 <bmo> I'd end up writing `do ts <- many $ tag (t_0 <|> ... <|> t_n) (\case T0 -> ..; ...; T_n -> ...); reorder ts` it seems
2021-06-16 16:18:14 +0200 <dminuoso> bmo: follow that line of thought
2021-06-16 16:18:19 +0200 <dminuoso> you have to repeat that same code one for each branch
2021-06-16 16:19:27 +0200 <dminuoso> Say you have T1, T2, T3, then you parse like that for T1,T2,T3. In the the T1 branch you will have to repeat that for T2 and T3. For the T2 branch you have to repeat that for T1 and T3. For the T3 branch you repeat it for T2 and T3.
2021-06-16 16:19:29 +0200 <bmo> yup. though the leaves `t_0` .. `t_n` are "flat" so at least it won't nest, however there are many occurences of this sort of entry
2021-06-16 16:19:36 +0200 <dminuoso> This explodes quickly
2021-06-16 16:20:18 +0200 <dminuoso> bmo: ah but with `many` you will admit more nonsense like multiple title tags.
2021-06-16 16:22:48 +0200 <bmo> True
2021-06-16 16:23:34 +0200LukeHoersten(~LukeHoers@user/lukehoersten)
2021-06-16 16:26:09 +0200eggplantade(~Eggplanta@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:cded:c7cb:4d63:a64a)
2021-06-16 16:28:24 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@86.106.121.100)
2021-06-16 16:28:40 +0200inkbottle[m](~inkbottle@2001:470:69fc:105::2ff5)
2021-06-16 16:29:23 +0200 <zebrag> [testing]
2021-06-16 16:29:59 +0200sheepduck(~sheepduck@cpe98524a8cef7c-cm98524a8cef7a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)
2021-06-16 16:31:43 +0200 <raehik> Is there a way to view the implementation of a function in ghci? Like :i but showing the function contents as well as the type signature
2021-06-16 16:31:52 +0200 <raehik> (it would save me a lot of silly hoogles)
2021-06-16 16:32:00 +0200Sgeo(~Sgeo@user/sgeo)
2021-06-16 16:32:47 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@86.106.121.100) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-06-16 16:32:47 +0200_73(~user@pool-96-252-123-136.bstnma.fios.verizon.net)
2021-06-16 16:33:47 +0200 <allbery_b> nope
2021-06-16 16:34:12 +0200 <lortabac> raehik: there is the @src command in lambdabot
2021-06-16 16:34:30 +0200 <lortabac> @src head
2021-06-16 16:34:30 +0200 <lambdabot> head (x:_) = x
2021-06-16 16:34:30 +0200 <lambdabot> head [] = error "Prelude.head: empty list"
2021-06-16 16:34:31 +0200 <raehik> @src (++)
2021-06-16 16:34:32 +0200 <lambdabot> [] ++ ys = ys
2021-06-16 16:34:32 +0200 <lambdabot> (x:xs) ++ ys = x : (xs ++ ys)
2021-06-16 16:34:32 +0200 <lambdabot> -- OR
2021-06-16 16:34:32 +0200 <lambdabot> xs ++ ys = foldr (:) ys xs
2021-06-16 16:34:57 +0200 <raehik> That's handy. Shame I can't get that locally too
2021-06-16 16:35:00 +0200 <allbery_b> but @src tells lies
2021-06-16 16:35:03 +0200 <lortabac> you can send private messages to lambdabot
2021-06-16 16:35:03 +0200obscur1ty(~obscur1ty@102.41.69.204)
2021-06-16 16:35:12 +0200 <raehik> lortabac: oh, thank you!
2021-06-16 16:35:16 +0200 <lortabac> yes, @src is not the real source code
2021-06-16 16:35:18 +0200 <allbery_b> you can with goa, also, although getting it to build can be tricky
2021-06-16 16:36:14 +0200 <lortabac> but (I guess) if you run that code instead of the GHC one you should get the same behavior
2021-06-16 16:36:27 +0200 <lortabac> performance aside
2021-06-16 16:36:35 +0200obscur1ty(~obscur1ty@102.41.69.204) (Changing host)
2021-06-16 16:36:35 +0200obscur1ty(~obscur1ty@user/obscur1ty)
2021-06-16 16:36:56 +0200 <lortabac> allbery_b: what is goa?
2021-06-16 16:37:10 +0200 <allbery_b> @hackage goa
2021-06-16 16:37:10 +0200 <lambdabot> https://hackage.haskell.org/package/goa
2021-06-16 16:37:14 +0200obscur1ty(~obscur1ty@user/obscur1ty) (Client Quit)
2021-06-16 16:37:14 +0200 <allbery_b> it hooks lambdabot into ghci
2021-06-16 16:37:16 +0200obs\(~obscur1ty@user/obs/x-5924898) (Quit: Leaving)
2021-06-16 16:37:31 +0200obs\(~obscur1ty@102.41.69.204)
2021-06-16 16:37:36 +0200 <lortabac> thanks
2021-06-16 16:37:48 +0200 <lortabac> Maintainer: none :s
2021-06-16 16:39:26 +0200tzh(~tzh@c-24-21-73-154.hsd1.or.comcast.net)
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2021-06-16 16:52:18 +0200 <janus> i am using ripgrep a lot to search for definitions of functions, because HLS breaks down on my codebase. so i keep searching "definitionName ::" to find a definition
2021-06-16 16:52:37 +0200 <janus> but then, if it is a record, and the types have been aligned, it won't match because of whitespace
2021-06-16 16:52:47 +0200dunkeln(~dunkeln@94.129.65.28) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2021-06-16 16:52:57 +0200 <merijn> janus: Also wouldn't work on half my code, tbh
2021-06-16 16:53:01 +0200 <janus> instead of writing my own macros, does someone have a set of ripgrep alieses for this, or something similar?
2021-06-16 16:53:07 +0200 <merijn> since I usually newline before :: for long types
2021-06-16 16:53:46 +0200 <janus> right, so really want i want is a AST search language with a convenient ascii syntax
2021-06-16 16:54:01 +0200 <janus> i shouldn't even need to bother with textual regex... this code already compiled
2021-06-16 16:54:29 +0200 <merijn> Doubt someone has that, tbh
2021-06-16 16:54:58 +0200 <janus> do the .hi files contain the binding names? then maybe that could help making a lite version of it
2021-06-16 16:55:16 +0200 <merijn> janus: That's basically what hls does, so you'd be reimplementing HLS, basically
2021-06-16 16:55:35 +0200 <merijn> Probably less effort to talk to the HLS people and see why it breaks on your codebase
2021-06-16 16:55:52 +0200xff0x(~xff0x@2001:1a81:528b:ea00:2e2a:bb50:623a:8bbb) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-06-16 16:56:20 +0200 <janus> well it leaks memory, i think they are already aware
2021-06-16 16:56:51 +0200aplainzetakind(~johndoe@captainludd.powered.by.lunarbnc.net) (Quit: Free ZNC ~ Powered by LunarBNC: https://LunarBNC.net)
2021-06-16 16:57:05 +0200xff0x(~xff0x@2001:1a81:5295:df00:2126:2024:49d7:8359)
2021-06-16 17:00:53 +0200 <shapr> janus: hasktags or other tags creator?
2021-06-16 17:01:08 +0200aplainzetakind(~johndoe@captainludd.powered.by.lunarbnc.net)
2021-06-16 17:01:13 +0200 <janus> shapr: oh i never tried that, can you recommend one?
2021-06-16 17:01:31 +0200 <shapr> I use hasktags, but I'm just trying haskdogs for the first time.
2021-06-16 17:01:40 +0200 <janus> i like dogs
2021-06-16 17:01:45 +0200 <shapr> it takes much longer, so I don't know about it yet :-)
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2021-06-16 17:35:02 +0200jakalx(~jakalx@base.jakalx.net) ()
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2021-06-16 17:36:36 +0200nRitz(~OhHiHello@s75-159-190-222.ab.hsia.telus.net) ()
2021-06-16 17:37:08 +0200ec(~ec@gateway/tor-sasl/ec)
2021-06-16 17:37:09 +0200 <Philonous_> Can't GHC generate tags for you?
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2021-06-16 18:07:30 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-06-16 18:11:46 +0200tromp(~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl)
2021-06-16 18:12:52 +0200maroloccio(~marolocci@200.243.99.194) (Quit: Client closed)
2021-06-16 18:14:35 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@86.106.121.100)
2021-06-16 18:14:44 +0200fluffyballoon(~fluffybal@pat-verona-l.epic.com) (Quit: Client closed)
2021-06-16 18:14:55 +0200slack1256(~slack1256@191.126.99.209)
2021-06-16 18:15:06 +0200fluffyballoon(~fluffybal@pat-verona-l.epic.com)
2021-06-16 18:15:43 +0200 <slack1256> I recall there was a `rightToMaybe` defined on base somewhere. Did I imagine it?
2021-06-16 18:17:03 +0200 <janus> slack1256: there is one in `either`
2021-06-16 18:18:23 +0200 <slack1256> Yeah, I can use `either (const Nothing) Just`. But I recall it was already defined somewhere.
2021-06-16 18:18:26 +0200eggplantade(~Eggplanta@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:cded:c7cb:4d63:a64a)
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2021-06-16 18:19:10 +0200Bartosz(~textual@24.35.90.211)
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2021-06-16 18:28:21 +0200wei2912(~wei2912@112.199.250.21) (Quit: Lost terminal)
2021-06-16 18:29:02 +0200justsomeguy(~justsomeg@user/justsomeguy)
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2021-06-16 18:30:57 +0200Morrow(~Morrow@bzq-110-168-31-106.red.bezeqint.net) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
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2021-06-16 18:36:23 +0200haltux(~haltux@a89-154-181-47.cpe.netcabo.pt)
2021-06-16 18:36:28 +0200maroloccio(~marolocci@200.243.99.194) (Quit: Client closed)
2021-06-16 18:36:38 +0200Guest9(~Guest9@103.250.139.6)
2021-06-16 18:38:14 +0200safinaskar(~safinaska@109-252-90-89.nat.spd-mgts.ru)
2021-06-16 18:38:19 +0200 <safinaskar> have unlifted types bottoms?
2021-06-16 18:38:31 +0200 <lyxia> no
2021-06-16 18:39:19 +0200 <lyxia> safinaskar: thanks again for your answer on cafe BTW
2021-06-16 18:39:25 +0200jrm(~jrm@156.34.187.65) (Quit: ciao)
2021-06-16 18:39:48 +0200jrm(~jrm@156.34.187.65)
2021-06-16 18:39:53 +0200 <safinaskar> lyxia: ok :))
2021-06-16 18:40:51 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
2021-06-16 18:40:57 +0200 <safinaskar> but "undefined :: Int#" compiles!
2021-06-16 18:41:40 +0200dunkeln(~dunkeln@94.129.65.28)
2021-06-16 18:42:35 +0200chomwitt(~Pitsikoko@athedsl-20549.home.otenet.gr)
2021-06-16 18:44:42 +0200euandreh(~euandreh@2804:14c:33:9fe5:b257:2b:ea5f:da94) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-06-16 18:46:02 +0200spirgel(spirgel@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/spirgel)
2021-06-16 18:46:04 +0200euandreh(~euandreh@2804:14c:33:9fe5:8b36:948d:3300:375b)
2021-06-16 18:48:44 +0200mikoto-chan(~mikoto-ch@ip-213-49-189-31.dsl.scarlet.be) (Quit: mikoto-chan)
2021-06-16 18:48:59 +0200mikoto-chan(~mikoto-ch@ip-213-49-189-31.dsl.scarlet.be)
2021-06-16 18:50:03 +0200benin036(~benin@183.82.207.180) (Quit: The Lounge - https://thelounge.chat)
2021-06-16 18:50:57 +0200tromp(~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2021-06-16 18:50:57 +0200 <lyxia> they key is that you don't get a value of type Int# (unlike undefined :: Int)
2021-06-16 18:51:56 +0200sbmsr(~pi@2600:1700:63d0:4830:7dbf:92d8:fd42:235d)
2021-06-16 18:52:26 +0200 <safinaskar> % 0
2021-06-16 18:52:26 +0200 <yahb> safinaskar: 0
2021-06-16 18:53:21 +0200 <safinaskar> i am not registered on libera.char . and i can write yahb on-channel, but cannot write it directly. this is very good
2021-06-16 18:53:33 +0200 <safinaskar> this forces me to flood yahb on channel
2021-06-16 18:53:52 +0200 <lyxia> % let x = undefined :: Int# in ()
2021-06-16 18:53:53 +0200 <yahb> lyxia: *** Exception: Prelude.undefined; CallStack (from HasCallStack):; error, called at libraries/base/GHC/Err.hs:75:14 in base:GHC.Err; undefined, called at <interactive>:13:9 in interactive:Ghci11
2021-06-16 18:53:57 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@86.106.121.100)
2021-06-16 18:53:59 +0200 <lyxia> % let x = undefined :: Int in ()
2021-06-16 18:53:59 +0200 <yahb> lyxia: ()
2021-06-16 18:54:05 +0200Bartosz(~textual@24.35.90.211) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2021-06-16 18:54:11 +0200fvr(uid503686@id-503686.highgate.irccloud.com) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2021-06-16 18:54:55 +0200Obo(~roberto@h-46-59-103-134.A498.priv.bahnhof.se)
2021-06-16 18:55:39 +0200fizbin(~fizbin@2601:8a:4080:1280:8c7e:5b3f:79d6:ec26)
2021-06-16 18:55:59 +0200 <safinaskar> lyxia: okey
2021-06-16 18:56:29 +0200 <dminuoso> slack1256: Not in base. I find myself writing `hush :: Either a b -> Maybe b` and `note :: a -> Maybe b -> Either a b` in many of the applications here.
2021-06-16 18:57:30 +0200BosonCollider(~olofs@90-227-86-119-no542.tbcn.telia.com) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-06-16 18:57:42 +0200 <c_wraith> you prefer to not use the errors package?
2021-06-16 18:58:32 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@86.106.121.100) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-06-16 19:01:38 +0200fizbin(~fizbin@2601:8a:4080:1280:8c7e:5b3f:79d6:ec26) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-06-16 19:02:13 +0200hololeap(hololeap@user/hololeap)
2021-06-16 19:02:52 +0200chele(~chele@user/chele) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-06-16 19:04:00 +0200 <dminuoso> c_wraith: For 2 functions? No.
2021-06-16 19:04:22 +0200 <dminuoso> Their implementation is far too trivial to incur an extra dependency, and potentially introduce transformers/exceptions into my transitive dependencies.
2021-06-16 19:04:45 +0200eggplantade(~Eggplanta@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:cded:c7cb:4d63:a64a)
2021-06-16 19:05:53 +0200MQ-17J(~MQ-17J@d14-69-206-129.try.wideopenwest.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-06-16 19:06:34 +0200safinaskar(~safinaska@109-252-90-89.nat.spd-mgts.ru) ()
2021-06-16 19:06:35 +0200abbie(~abbie@user/abbie) (Changing host)
2021-06-16 19:06:35 +0200abbie(~abbie@offtopia/offtopian/abbie)
2021-06-16 19:08:39 +0200MQ-17J(~MQ-17J@8.21.10.64)
2021-06-16 19:09:10 +0200 <justsomeguy> What motivated Alonzo Chruch to create the lambda calculus?
2021-06-16 19:10:46 +0200Ariakenom(~Ariakenom@2001:9b1:efb:fc00:e4f6:1a3d:3782:7bbb)
2021-06-16 19:11:18 +0200 <justsomeguy> ...ah, I should have just kept on reading, the wikipedia page on the church-turing thesis has some background...
2021-06-16 19:11:23 +0200 <dolio> He was trying to create a formal system for logic.
2021-06-16 19:12:02 +0200 <dminuoso> As far as I can make it out, he created it to have a formal system to talk about computations and algorithms in order to disprove the Entscheidungsproblem (see Church's theorem)
2021-06-16 19:12:22 +0200pavonia(~user@user/siracusa)
2021-06-16 19:12:39 +0200 <dolio> The computation part actually came after the logic part.
2021-06-16 19:13:02 +0200MQ-17J(~MQ-17J@8.21.10.64) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-06-16 19:13:46 +0200alx741(~alx741@186.178.108.66) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-06-16 19:15:12 +0200 <dolio> At least, publication-wise.
2021-06-16 19:15:18 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-06-16 19:17:27 +0200shapr(~user@pool-100-36-247-68.washdc.fios.verizon.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-06-16 19:17:55 +0200vicfred(~vicfred@user/vicfred) (Quit: Leaving)
2021-06-16 19:18:01 +0200MQ-17J(~MQ-17J@8.21.10.64)
2021-06-16 19:18:59 +0200Obo(~roberto@h-46-59-103-134.A498.priv.bahnhof.se) (Quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2021-06-16 19:20:33 +0200muto(~muto@d75-159-225-7.abhsia.telus.net) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
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2021-06-16 19:21:23 +0200gxt(~gxtmatrix@2001:470:69fc:105::3513)
2021-06-16 19:21:47 +0200Guest3991(~pera@137.221.132.196) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-06-16 19:22:11 +0200lavaman(~lavaman@98.38.249.169) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-06-16 19:22:16 +0200econo(uid147250@user/econo)
2021-06-16 19:22:28 +0200ec(~ec@gateway/tor-sasl/ec) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-06-16 19:22:44 +0200 <justsomeguy> I'm vaguely aware that there was a sort of open problem in mathematics that Hilbert proposed, called Hilberts program, which was to find an algorithm to prove whether any arbitrary mathematical statement can eventually be proved true (or decided).
2021-06-16 19:23:19 +0200 <justsomeguy> I guess I'm just spinning my wheels here, but it's interesting stuff ^_^.
2021-06-16 19:23:53 +0200 <dminuoso> If wikipedia is to be believed, this was later.
2021-06-16 19:24:11 +0200 <sm[m]> how do you tell stack and cabal to build one package at a time, again ? To save ram
2021-06-16 19:24:11 +0200 <dminuoso> At least that summary suggests that this dates back to Gottfriend Leibniz.
2021-06-16 19:24:30 +0200 <tomsmeding> sm[m]: -j1
2021-06-16 19:25:11 +0200 <tomsmeding> @tell merijn You told me ereyesterday that Profunctor, Applicative, Category and Bifunctor pretty much obsolete Arrow; where do I find (&&&)? :p
2021-06-16 19:25:12 +0200 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
2021-06-16 19:25:31 +0200 <justsomeguy> There's a talk on the ACM website called "lambda calculus then & now", which outlines a timeline, but it's a bit confusing.
2021-06-16 19:25:40 +0200 <sm[m]> thanks tomsmeding !
2021-06-16 19:26:29 +0200alx741(~alx741@181.196.68.42)
2021-06-16 19:26:30 +0200warnz(~warnz@2600:1700:77c0:5610:7144:467c:eae6:37e7) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-06-16 19:26:35 +0200sbmsr(~pi@2600:1700:63d0:4830:7dbf:92d8:fd42:235d) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-06-16 19:27:21 +0200 <maerwald> ncpu is a crazy default imo
2021-06-16 19:27:24 +0200warnz(~warnz@2600:1700:77c0:5610:7144:467c:eae6:37e7)
2021-06-16 19:27:34 +0200 <maerwald> I opened tickets for both stack and cabal about it, but nothing happened :>
2021-06-16 19:27:59 +0200 <tomsmeding> maerwald: it's not a crazy default if you have lots of ram
2021-06-16 19:28:02 +0200 <dminuoso> tomsmeding: that's just profunctors
2021-06-16 19:28:16 +0200 <maerwald> ncpu is a metric from gcc, which doesn't translate to GHC *at all*
2021-06-16 19:28:40 +0200 <dminuoso> tomsmeding: Should be captured by Strong
2021-06-16 19:28:52 +0200 <dolio> The actual history kind of makes people talking about how 'miraculous' the connection between logic and computation is kind of silly, since several of the big computational systems grew out of attempts to formalize logic.
2021-06-16 19:30:21 +0200 <tomsmeding> maerwald: what would your suggested default be?
2021-06-16 19:30:23 +0200 <dminuoso> tomsmeding: it's basically just first' + second' + dimap for massaging.
2021-06-16 19:30:23 +0200fizbin_(~fizbin@c-68-83-100-68.hsd1.nj.comcast.net)
2021-06-16 19:30:44 +0200 <tomsmeding> dminuoso: right, and it's also \f g x -> (f x, g x)
2021-06-16 19:30:55 +0200 <sm[m]> I have someone building things on a 2G machine, so I'm recalling the low mem tips
2021-06-16 19:30:57 +0200muto(~muto@d75-159-225-7.abhsia.telus.net)
2021-06-16 19:30:59 +0200 <sm[m]> @where lowmem
2021-06-16 19:30:59 +0200 <lambdabot> I know nothing about lowmem.
2021-06-16 19:30:59 +0200 <maerwald> tomsmeding: 1
2021-06-16 19:31:21 +0200 <tomsmeding> maerwald: is that a sane default on my 32GB ram machine?
2021-06-16 19:31:31 +0200 <maerwald> yes
2021-06-16 19:31:36 +0200 <tomsmeding> dminuoso: but I see, thanks :)
2021-06-16 19:31:56 +0200 <tomsmeding> maerwald: it sure goes faster if I let it use more cores, so why 1
2021-06-16 19:31:59 +0200 <monochrom> The history of GHC, Cabal, and cabal-install are full of provably wrong analogies from gcc, make, and autoconf+automake+etc.
2021-06-16 19:32:13 +0200 <sm[m]> @where+ lowmem stack build ONEPKG -j1 --ghc-options='+RTS -M1G -RTS'
2021-06-16 19:32:13 +0200 <lambdabot> I will remember.
2021-06-16 19:32:13 +0200 <monochrom> For example -O1 and -O2
2021-06-16 19:32:31 +0200 <sm[m]> just a start, feel free to add the cabal command
2021-06-16 19:32:41 +0200 <monochrom> (As it turns out, ghc's -O1 and 2 have different intentions from gcc's)
2021-06-16 19:33:06 +0200shapr(~user@pool-100-36-247-68.washdc.fios.verizon.net)
2021-06-16 19:33:12 +0200 <maerwald> tomsmeding: defaults are not about "let's see how fast we can go before OOM"
2021-06-16 19:33:20 +0200 <maerwald> defaults should be safe
2021-06-16 19:33:21 +0200 <monochrom> For example, the broken analogies I point out in http://www.vex.net/~trebla/haskell/cabal-cabal.xhtml#install
2021-06-16 19:33:22 +0200 <maerwald> on any machine
2021-06-16 19:33:28 +0200sbmsr(~pi@2600:1700:63d0:4830:7dbf:92d8:fd42:235d)
2021-06-16 19:33:36 +0200 <tomsmeding> maerwald: no default whatsoever is safe on my 1GB VPS
2021-06-16 19:33:42 +0200 <maerwald> tomsmeding: you can easily tell cabal to use ncpu
2021-06-16 19:33:46 +0200 <tomsmeding> or for that matter on a 2GB system if you're building vector or aeson
2021-06-16 19:33:49 +0200 <tomsmeding> but I see your point :p
2021-06-16 19:33:53 +0200 <tomsmeding> -j is an easy flag to pass
2021-06-16 19:33:54 +0200fizbin(~fizbin@2601:8a:4080:1280:8c7e:5b3f:79d6:ec26) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-06-16 19:33:59 +0200 <dolio> I.E. earliest lambda calculus was sort of like the more modern 'logical framework'. Then it seems like Church and Turing realized that 'lambda definable functions' were a useful class to consider. Then it seems like Turing tried to make a version of lambda calculus that was about rewriting symbol strings on a tape, rather than substitution (which is a lot more complicated). And that leads to Turing machines.
2021-06-16 19:36:26 +0200 <dminuoso> % :t let split = dimap id (\a -> (a, a)) id in \l r -> split >>> first' l >>> second' r -- tomsmeding
2021-06-16 19:36:26 +0200 <yahb> dminuoso: (a -> b1) -> (a -> b2) -> a -> (b1, b2)
2021-06-16 19:36:30 +0200 <Ariakenom> in my head I had that turing machines and lambda calculus were independent and at the same time
2021-06-16 19:37:10 +0200 <tomsmeding> dminuoso: that's nice gymnastics :p
2021-06-16 19:37:28 +0200 <tomsmeding> but honestly what I was looking for was the nice combinator, which apparently is indeed still only in Arrow
2021-06-16 19:37:29 +0200 <monochrom> In the ncpus case, cabal-install should be drawing inspiration from make, not gcc, for the default value. make doesn't default to spamming multiple gcc instances.
2021-06-16 19:37:31 +0200 <dolio> Ariakenom: Right. But I think that's not actually the case. At least that wasn't the impression I got when I looked into it.
2021-06-16 19:37:51 +0200 <dminuoso> tomsmeding: what is the nice combinator?
2021-06-16 19:37:59 +0200 <tomsmeding> (&&&)
2021-06-16 19:38:16 +0200 <tomsmeding> but this is of course more general, which you're restricting artificially to (,) using the (\a -> (a,a))
2021-06-16 19:38:24 +0200 <dolio> Before Turing machines, Turing wrote a paper that was basically how you'd build a Turing machine that does lambda calculus reduction, to spell out how substitution and stuff would actually be implemented.
2021-06-16 19:38:49 +0200 <tomsmeding> monochrom: gcc does not parallelise, so there is no inspiration to draw from there
2021-06-16 19:39:12 +0200sbmsr(~pi@2600:1700:63d0:4830:7dbf:92d8:fd42:235d) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-06-16 19:39:27 +0200 <dminuoso> tomsmeding: hold on, let me fix that
2021-06-16 19:39:31 +0200 <tomsmeding> on the other hand, rust's cargo does also default to building dependencies in parallel, and in fact the rustc compiler itself parallelises builds sometimes, if possible
2021-06-16 19:39:35 +0200 <dolio> E.G. with tape symbols (, ), λ and some other conventions I forget.
2021-06-16 19:39:39 +0200wonko_(~wjc@62.115.229.50)
2021-06-16 19:39:55 +0200 <tomsmeding> and I believe there are people that are sometimes trying to parallelise ghc itself
2021-06-16 19:40:17 +0200 <monochrom> Well, I guess the real historical inspiration was: the text package was taking forever to build, so let's default cabal to spam multiple ghc instances to build other packages at the same time.
2021-06-16 19:40:28 +0200ikex1(~ash@user/ikex) (Quit: WeeChat 3.2-rc1)
2021-06-16 19:40:35 +0200 <maerwald> sm[m]: would be cool if lambdabot could translate between cabal and stack commands
2021-06-16 19:41:31 +0200 <monochrom> Haha I can see an endian war on that.
2021-06-16 19:41:35 +0200BosonCollider(~olofs@90-227-86-119-no542.tbcn.telia.com)
2021-06-16 19:42:05 +0200 <monochrom> The cabal->stack command, should it be called @uncabal or should it be called @stack ? >:)
2021-06-16 19:42:13 +0200 <Ariakenom> dolio: we need to reach the truth! do you have any sources? afaict lc and tm are both invented around 1936. so there isnt much time to work with in pre internet measurements
2021-06-16 19:42:48 +0200 <maerwald> I'm pretty sure I can re-implement most of stack with a cabal shell wrapper :p
2021-06-16 19:42:48 +0200 <dolio> Ariakenom: Wikipedia has the relevant papers cited in some articles.
2021-06-16 19:43:10 +0200azeem(~azeem@176.201.43.174) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-06-16 19:43:15 +0200 <maerwald> that might be a funny project, actually
2021-06-16 19:43:18 +0200 <dolio> I forget which. Maybe the page on Turing has his paper about the more mechanical lambda calculus.
2021-06-16 19:43:21 +0200hnOsmium0001(uid453710@id-453710.stonehaven.irccloud.com)
2021-06-16 19:43:51 +0200 <tomsmeding> maerwald: for some definition of "funny" :p
2021-06-16 19:44:09 +0200 <maerwald> tomsmeding: `ghcup install stack` is already funny
2021-06-16 19:44:25 +0200 <dolio> Anyhow, Turing was Church's student, so they weren't completely inependent regardless.
2021-06-16 19:44:30 +0200 <dminuoso> % :t (***) -- tomsmeding
2021-06-16 19:44:31 +0200 <yahb> dminuoso: (Category cat, Strong cat) => cat a b1 -> cat c b2 -> cat (a, c) (b1, b2)
2021-06-16 19:44:34 +0200 <dminuoso> This is half of it
2021-06-16 19:44:38 +0200 <maerwald> just need to go the last mile
2021-06-16 19:45:09 +0200azeem(~azeem@dynamic-adsl-78-13-238-239.clienti.tiscali.it)
2021-06-16 19:46:01 +0200Pickchea(~private@user/pickchea)
2021-06-16 19:46:09 +0200raehik(~raehik@cpc95906-rdng25-2-0-cust156.15-3.cable.virginm.net) (Quit: WeeChat 3.1)
2021-06-16 19:46:13 +0200 <tomsmeding> % :t ((join (,) .) .) . (***)
2021-06-16 19:46:13 +0200 <yahb> tomsmeding: (a -> b1) -> (c -> b2) -> (a, c) -> ((b1, b2), (b1, b2))
2021-06-16 19:46:16 +0200 <tomsmeding> oh
2021-06-16 19:47:16 +0200raehik(~raehik@cpc95906-rdng25-2-0-cust156.15-3.cable.virginm.net)
2021-06-16 19:47:34 +0200 <dminuoso> % :t let split = dimap id (\a -> (a, a)) Control.Category.id in \l r -> split >>> first' l >>> second' r -- tomsmeding
2021-06-16 19:47:34 +0200 <yahb> dminuoso: (Category cat, Strong cat) => cat a b1 -> cat a b2 -> cat a (b1, b2)
2021-06-16 19:47:35 +0200eggplantade(~Eggplanta@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:cded:c7cb:4d63:a64a) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-06-16 19:47:42 +0200 <dminuoso> tomsmeding: I just accidentally used the wrong `id`. That was all
2021-06-16 19:48:18 +0200jneira_(~jneira_@5.red-81-39-172.dynamicip.rima-tde.net) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-06-16 19:49:08 +0200dhil(~dhil@80.208.56.181) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-06-16 19:49:19 +0200 <tomsmeding> @pl \f g x -> (f *** g) (x, x)
2021-06-16 19:49:20 +0200 <lambdabot> flip flip (join (,)) . ((.) .) . (***)
2021-06-16 19:49:23 +0200 <dminuoso> % :t dimap id (\a -> (a, a)) Control.Category.id
2021-06-16 19:49:23 +0200 <yahb> dminuoso: (Profunctor p, Category p) => p b (b, b)
2021-06-16 19:49:24 +0200 <tomsmeding> oh
2021-06-16 19:49:33 +0200 <Ariakenom> dolio: yes but after 36 right?
2021-06-16 19:49:49 +0200 <tomsmeding> dminuoso: ah yes that one is more general
2021-06-16 19:50:16 +0200 <dminuoso> tomsmeding: so the basic idea is to split, and then use first' and second' to go over each side. :)
2021-06-16 19:50:17 +0200 <Ariakenom> or rather .. after lc publication
2021-06-16 19:50:35 +0200 <tomsmeding> dminuoso: yes that makes sense
2021-06-16 19:51:42 +0200Guest9(~Guest9@103.250.139.6) (Quit: Connection closed)
2021-06-16 19:51:55 +0200eggplantade(~Eggplanta@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:cded:c7cb:4d63:a64a)
2021-06-16 19:52:28 +0200 <dolio> Ariakenom: Not sure. I guess he could have been fiddling with lambda calculus before becoming a formal student of Church's.
2021-06-16 19:52:45 +0200 <dminuoso> tomsmeding: Also, equivalently ArrowChoice corresponds to Category + Choice
2021-06-16 19:52:51 +0200sbmsr(~pi@2600:1700:63d0:4830:7dbf:92d8:fd42:235d)
2021-06-16 19:53:53 +0200 <dminuoso> % join = dimap (either id id) Control.Category.id Control.Category.id
2021-06-16 19:53:54 +0200 <yahb> dminuoso:
2021-06-16 19:53:55 +0200 <dminuoso> % :t join
2021-06-16 19:53:55 +0200 <yahb> dminuoso: (Profunctor p, Category p) => p (Either c c) c
2021-06-16 19:54:27 +0200 <dminuoso> % :t \l -> left' l >>> right' r -- this is (+++)
2021-06-16 19:54:28 +0200 <yahb> dminuoso: ; <interactive>:1:26: error: Variable not in scope: r :: cat c b1
2021-06-16 19:54:32 +0200 <dminuoso> % :t \l r -> left' l >>> right' r -- this is (+++)
2021-06-16 19:54:33 +0200 <yahb> dminuoso: (Category cat, Choice cat) => cat a b1 -> cat c b2 -> cat (Either a c) (Either b1 b2)
2021-06-16 19:54:46 +0200 <dminuoso> And ||| is constructed just like (&&&) above
2021-06-16 19:55:30 +0200justsomeguy(~justsomeg@user/justsomeguy) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-06-16 19:55:35 +0200 <Ariakenom> dolio: they both proved the undecidability of their systems independently in 1936 with their own systems. but tm might be based on lc
2021-06-16 19:56:03 +0200 <Ariakenom> *undecidability using their systems. the result is universal
2021-06-16 19:56:30 +0200 <dminuoso> % :t \l r -> left' l >>> right' r >>> join -- tomsmeding
2021-06-16 19:56:30 +0200 <yahb> dminuoso: (Category cat, Choice cat) => cat a c1 -> cat c2 c1 -> cat (Either a c2) c1
2021-06-16 19:56:49 +0200 <Ariakenom> History of Lambda-calculus and Combinatory Logic http://www.users.waitrose.com/~hindley/SomePapers_PDFs/2006CarHin,HistlamRp.pdf
2021-06-16 19:57:20 +0200 <tomsmeding> dminuoso: neat building blocks
2021-06-16 19:57:38 +0200 <tomsmeding> it definitely looks like a nicer, more principled way of doing things
2021-06-16 19:58:06 +0200 <tomsmeding> it's a bit like working with combinators (as opposed to a language with variables)
2021-06-16 19:58:09 +0200Guest9(~Guest9@103.250.139.6)
2021-06-16 19:58:52 +0200 <dolio> Ariakenom: Maybe he came up with Turing machines first and then tried to show how you could mechanize lambda calculus with them. The papers I was able to find were published in the opposite order of that, though. But I'm not a historian, and it's hard to find papers that old.
2021-06-16 20:00:20 +0200 <Zemyla> @let newtype Sorted a = Sorted { runSorted :: (a -> a -> Ordering) -> [a] }
2021-06-16 20:00:21 +0200 <lambdabot> Defined.
2021-06-16 20:00:41 +0200 <Ariakenom> some forms of LC seems to have existed for a decade or so before so your story makes sense
2021-06-16 20:00:54 +0200micro(~micro@user/micro) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-06-16 20:01:04 +0200 <dminuoso> What I find quite interesting, is how Turing, Gödel, Post, Church and Curry came up with equivalent computational in a very short time period.
2021-06-16 20:01:06 +0200 <dolio> Yeah, LC goes back at least to 32, I think. But it wasn't really for computation at that point.
2021-06-16 20:01:22 +0200 <dminuoso> (Or rather with models, that later turned out to be computational models that were equivalent in power=
2021-06-16 20:01:23 +0200micro(~micro@user/micro)
2021-06-16 20:02:22 +0200 <Zemyla> @let mergeWith cmp = let { go [] bs = bs, go as [] = as, go as@(a:as') bs@(b:bs') = if cmp a b == GT then b:go as bs' else a:go as' bs } in go
2021-06-16 20:02:23 +0200 <lambdabot> Parse failed: Parse error: ,
2021-06-16 20:02:35 +0200 <tomsmeding> Zemyla: ; not ,
2021-06-16 20:02:47 +0200dhil(~dhil@195.213.192.47)
2021-06-16 20:02:55 +0200 <dolio> I think that is probably not that miraculous, either. They were probably communicating, even if by proxies.
2021-06-16 20:03:06 +0200 <Ariakenom> "The λ-calculus was invented in about 1928 by Alonzo Church, and was firstpublished in[Church, 1932]."
2021-06-16 20:04:10 +0200 <dolio> So there were probably informal ideas that they all were aware of, but came up with their own particulars.
2021-06-16 20:04:38 +0200 <Zemyla> @let mergeWith cmp = let { go [] bs = bs; go as [] = as; go as@(a:as') bs@(b:bs') = if cmp a b == GT then b:go as bs' else a:go as' bs } in go
2021-06-16 20:04:39 +0200 <lambdabot> Defined.
2021-06-16 20:05:02 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@86.106.121.100)
2021-06-16 20:06:09 +0200 <Zemyla> @let instance Functor Sorted where { fmap f (Sorted m) = Sorted (\cmp -> f <$> m (\a b -> cmp (f a) (f b)); a <$ Sorted m = Sorted (\_ -> a <$ m (\_ _ -> EQ)) }
2021-06-16 20:06:09 +0200 <lambdabot> Parse failed: Parse error: ;
2021-06-16 20:06:21 +0200 <Zemyla> @let instance Functor Sorted where { fmap f (Sorted m) = Sorted (\cmp -> f <$> m (\a b -> cmp (f a) (f b))); a <$ Sorted m = Sorted (\_ -> a <$ m (\_ _ -> EQ)) }
2021-06-16 20:06:22 +0200 <lambdabot> .L.hs:171:17: error:
2021-06-16 20:06:22 +0200 <lambdabot> Ambiguous occurrence ‘Sorted’
2021-06-16 20:06:22 +0200 <lambdabot> It could refer to
2021-06-16 20:06:30 +0200 <Zemyla> @undef
2021-06-16 20:06:31 +0200 <lambdabot> Undefined.
2021-06-16 20:06:36 +0200 <dminuoso> tomsmeding: But yeah, these are quite simple. Arrow I never really understood, perhaps that's just because I never used any arrow libraries - I hear this used to be a thing for some frp libraries.
2021-06-16 20:07:02 +0200 <Zemyla> @let newtype Sorting a = Sorting { runSorting :: (a -> a -> Ordering) -> [a] }
2021-06-16 20:07:03 +0200 <lambdabot> Defined.
2021-06-16 20:07:06 +0200 <dminuoso> Other than hxt Im not even aware of any library that exposes its users to arrows.
2021-06-16 20:07:12 +0200 <Zemyla> @let mergeWith cmp = let { go [] bs = bs; go as [] = as; go as@(a:as') bs@(b:bs') = if cmp a b == GT then b:go as bs' else a:go as' bs } in go
2021-06-16 20:07:14 +0200 <lambdabot> Defined.
2021-06-16 20:07:47 +0200 <Zemyla> @let instance Functor Sorting where { fmap f (Sorting m) = Sorting (\cmp -> f <$> m (\a b -> cmp (f a) (f b))); a <$ Sorting m = Sorting (\_ -> a <$ m (\_ _ -> EQ)) }
2021-06-16 20:07:48 +0200 <lambdabot> Defined.
2021-06-16 20:09:23 +0200edun(~edun@user/edun) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-06-16 20:09:38 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@86.106.121.100) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2021-06-16 20:09:58 +0200pretty_dumm_guy(trottel@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/prettydummguy/x-88029655)
2021-06-16 20:10:52 +0200tremon(~tremon@217-63-61-89.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl)
2021-06-16 20:10:57 +0200 <Ariakenom> dolio: did you have links to the LC machine paper and TM paper?
2021-06-16 20:11:22 +0200 <dolio> No, I looked briefly, but I'm not sure which wikipedia article they were cited on.
2021-06-16 20:11:34 +0200 <dolio> It's entirely possible the citations were changed, too.
2021-06-16 20:13:59 +0200__monty__(~toonn@user/toonn)
2021-06-16 20:15:04 +0200 <dolio> I seem to recall it was after Church's paper on an undecidable problem in number theory, though, so it'd put it around 36 at the earliest.
2021-06-16 20:16:44 +0200tromp(~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl)
2021-06-16 20:21:07 +0200azeem(~azeem@dynamic-adsl-78-13-238-239.clienti.tiscali.it) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-06-16 20:21:38 +0200danso(~danso@23-233-111-52.cpe.pppoe.ca) (Quit: WeeChat 3.1)
2021-06-16 20:22:01 +0200 <Zemyla> @let fromSorting (Sorting m) = m compare
2021-06-16 20:22:03 +0200 <lambdabot> Defined.
2021-06-16 20:22:27 +0200 <Zemyla> @let toSorting a = Sorting (const a)
2021-06-16 20:22:28 +0200 <lambdabot> Defined.
2021-06-16 20:22:50 +0200slowButPresent(~slowButPr@user/slowbutpresent) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-06-16 20:23:04 +0200lavaman(~lavaman@98.38.249.169)
2021-06-16 20:23:18 +0200Guest9(~Guest9@103.250.139.6) (Quit: Connection closed)
2021-06-16 20:23:32 +0200 <Ariakenom> dolio: the TM paper was released 36 tho. I thought you said the order was the opposite
2021-06-16 20:23:39 +0200danso(~danso@23-233-111-52.cpe.pppoe.ca)
2021-06-16 20:23:48 +0200ukari(~ukari@user/ukari) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-06-16 20:24:20 +0200 <Zemyla> > fromSorting $ mconcat $ fmap toSorting [5, 1, 4, 2, 3]
2021-06-16 20:24:22 +0200 <lambdabot> error:
2021-06-16 20:24:22 +0200 <lambdabot> • No instance for (Num [()]) arising from a use of ‘e_151423’
2021-06-16 20:24:22 +0200 <lambdabot> • In the expression: e_151423
2021-06-16 20:24:30 +0200 <Zemyla> :t toSorting
2021-06-16 20:24:32 +0200 <lambdabot> [a] -> Sorting a
2021-06-16 20:24:38 +0200slowButPresent(~slowButPr@user/slowbutpresent)
2021-06-16 20:24:40 +0200 <dolio> Ariakenom: Maybe the TM paper I found was not the earliest TM paper.
2021-06-16 20:24:51 +0200 <Zemyla> @let toSorting' a = Sorting (const [a])
2021-06-16 20:24:52 +0200 <dolio> Or was a republish or something.
2021-06-16 20:24:52 +0200 <lambdabot> Defined.
2021-06-16 20:25:02 +0200 <Zemyla> > fromSorting $ mconcat $ fmap toSorting' [5, 1, 4, 2, 3]
2021-06-16 20:25:04 +0200 <lambdabot> [1,2,3,4,5]
2021-06-16 20:25:05 +0200ukari(~ukari@user/ukari)
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2021-06-16 20:31:31 +0200wonko_(~wjc@62.115.229.50)
2021-06-16 20:32:13 +0200 <Zemyla> Is there a reason why tail is partial? Couldn't tail [] = []?
2021-06-16 20:32:41 +0200 <Clint> Zemyla: what would its type be then?
2021-06-16 20:32:59 +0200 <Clint> nevermind, i misread
2021-06-16 20:33:17 +0200 <Zemyla> @let tail' [] = []; tail' (_:as) = as
2021-06-16 20:33:19 +0200 <lambdabot> Defined.
2021-06-16 20:33:21 +0200 <Zemyla> :t tail'
2021-06-16 20:33:22 +0200 <lambdabot> [a] -> [a]
2021-06-16 20:33:26 +0200wroathe(~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-06-16 20:33:28 +0200eggplantade(~Eggplanta@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:cded:c7cb:4d63:a64a) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-06-16 20:36:43 +0200 <dolio> Ariakenom: The TM part wasn't my main point anyway. That the history of lambda calculus makes Curry-Howard very unsurprising was the main point.
2021-06-16 20:38:41 +0200Guest6631(~dunkeln@94.129.65.28)
2021-06-16 20:39:07 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@86.106.121.100)
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2021-06-16 20:40:12 +0200maroloccio(~marolocci@200.243.99.194) (Quit: Client closed)
2021-06-16 20:40:29 +0200 <crazazy> so i was wondering: is this considered bad practice? https://ttm.sh/FU4.png
2021-06-16 20:41:06 +0200 <tomsmeding> Zemyla: I guess the same reason that the 'rm' command-line tool throws an error when you try to remove a non-existent file except silently exiting
2021-06-16 20:41:31 +0200tromp(~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2021-06-16 20:41:59 +0200 <tomsmeding> and you can always use 'drop 1' instead
2021-06-16 20:42:44 +0200lavaman(~lavaman@98.38.249.169)
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2021-06-16 21:26:48 +0200jakalx(~jakalx@base.jakalx.net) ()
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2021-06-16 21:28:41 +0200haltux(~haltux@a89-154-181-47.cpe.netcabo.pt) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2021-06-16 21:29:45 +0200jakalx(~jakalx@base.jakalx.net)
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2021-06-16 21:33:15 +0200tromp(~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl)
2021-06-16 21:33:51 +0200eggplantade(~Eggplanta@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:cded:c7cb:4d63:a64a)
2021-06-16 21:34:08 +0200 <sm[m]> -j1 used to be the default and everyone wanted to know how to make it go faster
2021-06-16 21:34:09 +0200 <sm[m]> really, it should detect when it's exceeding your ram and do the right thing
2021-06-16 21:34:38 +0200neceve(~quassel@2a02:c7f:607e:d600:a95a:ecd2:e57a:3130)
2021-06-16 21:35:04 +0200learner-monad(~ehanneken@user/learner-monad)
2021-06-16 21:35:25 +0200 <vaibhavsagar[m]> I wonder how much GHC builds can take advantage of something like https://github.com/nelhage/llama
2021-06-16 21:35:36 +0200y04nn(~y04nn@81.17.24.204) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-06-16 21:35:57 +0200 <sm[m]> maerwald: a translation guide/bot is a great idea. Maybe even a workalike ui, things are confusing already so why not. :)
2021-06-16 21:36:16 +0200 <davean> vaibhavsagar[m]: zero?
2021-06-16 21:36:24 +0200fef(~thedawn@user/thedawn) (Quit: Leaving)
2021-06-16 21:37:05 +0200 <davean> or put another way, you'd have to have an amazingly outdated computer for it to not harm compilation significantly
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2021-06-16 21:47:43 +0200 <exarkun> using https://hackage.haskell.org/package/statvfs-0.2/docs/System-Posix-StatVFS.html but it seems dead and it needs to patches to build nowadays. anyone know of a maintained statvfs binding?
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2021-06-16 22:56:48 +0200 <siers> tomsmeding, users guide indeed seems like a good resource :)
2021-06-16 22:56:58 +0200 <siers> tomsmeding, thanks for recommending
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2021-06-16 23:11:58 +0200Franciman(~francesco@openglass.it)
2021-06-16 23:12:18 +0200 <Franciman> Hi all, would you program in a programming language only allowing to license the software with AGPL
2021-06-16 23:12:20 +0200 <Franciman> ?
2021-06-16 23:12:58 +0200 <Franciman> maerwald: I read your answer to the 'ghcup satisfy' issue, I would be interested, but right now I have 0 time
2021-06-16 23:13:24 +0200 <glguy> Franciman: of course not
2021-06-16 23:13:28 +0200 <Franciman> as soon as I get free, I'd like to help, though, so I'll stay updated in the meanwhile
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2021-06-16 23:14:01 +0200 <Franciman> glguy: lol
2021-06-16 23:14:12 +0200 <Franciman> fortunately you answered in this way
2021-06-16 23:14:19 +0200Francimanis happy
2021-06-16 23:14:21 +0200 <Franciman> thanks
2021-06-16 23:15:32 +0200 <Franciman> I hope to start a trend, and make the world a bit more balanced
2021-06-16 23:15:34 +0200 <Franciman> bb
2021-06-16 23:15:38 +0200Franciman(~francesco@openglass.it) (WeeChat 3.0.1)
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2021-06-16 23:25:53 +0200 <[exa]> Franciman: just curious, what programming language imposes AGPL?
2021-06-16 23:26:31 +0200 <allbery_b> they left already
2021-06-16 23:26:39 +0200 <allbery_b> oh, came back too
2021-06-16 23:26:54 +0200 <Franciman> hi allbery_b
2021-06-16 23:26:56 +0200 <Franciman> here I am
2021-06-16 23:27:00 +0200Erutuon(~Erutuon@user/erutuon) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2021-06-16 23:27:08 +0200 <Franciman> [exa]: none
2021-06-16 23:27:10 +0200 <Franciman> it would be stupid
2021-06-16 23:27:15 +0200 <allbery_b> and when did I lose my nick? sigh
2021-06-16 23:27:20 +0200allbery_bgeekosaur
2021-06-16 23:27:44 +0200 <Franciman> but it is amusing, in a way
2021-06-16 23:28:07 +0200 <Franciman> programming languages come even before smartphones
2021-06-16 23:28:13 +0200 <Franciman> internet is governed by FAANG
2021-06-16 23:28:15 +0200 <keltono> Franciman: Wait why? It's not like programs made in an AGPL'd programming language would be subject to the AGPL
2021-06-16 23:28:23 +0200 <keltono> presumably only the interpreter/compiler would be
2021-06-16 23:28:31 +0200 <Franciman> but smartphones are governed by apple others
2021-06-16 23:28:35 +0200 <Franciman> so apple can stop the other faang
2021-06-16 23:28:37 +0200 <Franciman> but
2021-06-16 23:28:39 +0200 <Franciman> again
2021-06-16 23:28:42 +0200 <Franciman> programming languages are a step above
2021-06-16 23:28:48 +0200 <Franciman> without them you can't program our world
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2021-06-16 23:43:49 +0200 <monochrom> This could be an interesting slippery slope question. You can start with a computer-aided design system whose feature set and possible creations are such that people are OK "yeah those creations are AGPL'ed".
2021-06-16 23:44:39 +0200 <monochrom> Now, if you posit that no such thing is possible, sure, I can see that. But I can also imagine that such a thing may be possible and acceptable.
2021-06-16 23:45:12 +0200 <Franciman> it would be extremely hard, monochrom
2021-06-16 23:45:15 +0200 <Franciman> imagine fpcomplete
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2021-06-16 23:45:24 +0200 <Franciman> or google
2021-06-16 23:45:25 +0200 <monochrom> In the latter case, there is a continuous transformation from that feature set to the feature set of what we think of as "programming language". So now where do you draw the line? >:)
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2021-06-16 23:45:49 +0200v01d4lph4(~v01d4lph4@122.160.65.250)
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2021-06-16 23:45:49 +0200v01d4lph4(~v01d4lph4@user/v01d4lph4)
2021-06-16 23:45:49 +0200 <Franciman> they would copy the ideas of your production system
2021-06-16 23:45:51 +0200 <chisui> Hello, I'm using parseExp from haskell-src-meta in a QuasiQuoter. How do I get the resulting expression to resolve names in ne context of the calling Module instead of the one that defines the QuasiQuoter?
2021-06-16 23:45:55 +0200 <monochrom> (btw \∩/ homotopy!)
2021-06-16 23:47:04 +0200slice(~slice@user/slice)
2021-06-16 23:48:31 +0200 <monochrom> Another scenerio is a certain GPL fan made a kickass Markov chain and now wants to impose "all outputs are AGPL'ed" or something before allowing you to use the Markov chain program.
2021-06-16 23:48:39 +0200jakalx(~jakalx@base.jakalx.net) ()
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