2021/05/27

2021-05-27 00:00:09 +0200jmpeax(~jmpeax@host-68-169-156-162.WISOLT2.epbfi.com)
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2021-05-27 00:07:03 +0200justUnrungjustache
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2021-05-27 00:15:23 +0200lavaman(~lavaman@98.38.249.169)
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2021-05-27 00:15:40 +0200Reyu[M](~reyureyuz@matrix.reyuzenfold.com)
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2021-05-27 00:19:25 +0200lavamanawschnap
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2021-05-27 00:22:09 +0200spirgel(~spirgel@81.92.200.60)
2021-05-27 00:22:41 +0200sbmsr(~pi@2600:1700:63d0:4830::25)
2021-05-27 00:24:46 +0200 <sm> maerwald: what what?! lies!
2021-05-27 00:25:19 +0200 <sm> omg the cool relief of hoogle and haddocks after a week of IRC drama
2021-05-27 00:25:38 +0200Morrow(~MorrowM_@147.161.9.80)
2021-05-27 00:25:56 +0200 <sm> it doesn't use codes like in https://hackage.haskell.org/package/hledger-lib-1.21/docs/src/Hledger.Utils.String.html#stripAnsi eh
2021-05-27 00:30:04 +0200dhouthoo(~dhouthoo@178-117-36-167.access.telenet.be) (Quit: WeeChat 3.1)
2021-05-27 00:30:12 +0200bilegeek(~bilegeek@2600:1008:b01a:69cf:a58b:76f2:71:1386)
2021-05-27 00:31:14 +0200awschnaplavaman
2021-05-27 00:33:23 +0200nsilv(~nsilv@host-82-50-119-12.retail.telecomitalia.it)
2021-05-27 00:34:08 +0200lavaman(~lavaman@98.38.249.169) ()
2021-05-27 00:34:24 +0200lavaman(~lavaman@98.38.249.169)
2021-05-27 00:34:26 +0200coot(~coot@37.30.49.19.nat.umts.dynamic.t-mobile.pl) (Quit: coot)
2021-05-27 00:35:57 +0200 <lavaman> /msg NickServ VERIFY REGISTER lavaman Ciym45gHmWY5m5ej
2021-05-27 00:36:32 +0200 <geekosaur> whoops
2021-05-27 00:36:40 +0200 <mniip> good thing that's not a password
2021-05-27 00:36:44 +0200 <int-e> <3 one-time codes
2021-05-27 00:36:49 +0200 <geekosaur> yeh
2021-05-27 00:36:59 +0200Kaladin(~Kaladin@198-27-188-103.fiber.dynamic.sonic.net)
2021-05-27 00:37:09 +0200 <lavaman> lol. paste added a space in front for some reason smh
2021-05-27 00:38:03 +0200nsilv(~nsilv@host-82-50-119-12.retail.telecomitalia.it) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-05-27 00:39:10 +0200 <maerwald> gg
2021-05-27 00:39:55 +0200 <maerwald> sm: how you do escape codes on windows? it only works through hoops
2021-05-27 00:40:42 +0200 <maerwald> needs activation in registry or some obscure functions from Win32 that you only get with ghc-9.0.1
2021-05-27 00:43:12 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@86.106.121.70)
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2021-05-27 00:53:51 +0200lavaman(~lavaman@98.38.249.169) ()
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2021-05-27 01:25:25 +0200lavaman(~lavaman@98.38.249.169) ()
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2021-05-27 01:41:29 +0200lavaman(~lavaman@98.38.249.169)
2021-05-27 01:41:40 +0200 <sm> maerwald: for a number of years now I have been waiting on ANSI color support on windows, IIRC the issue is still open so I just don't go there
2021-05-27 01:41:47 +0200 <sm> (GHC issue)
2021-05-27 01:42:12 +0200 <sm> well alright I'd better dig it up, how is it a GHC issue..
2021-05-27 01:43:28 +0200dustingetz(~textual@pool-173-49-123-198.phlapa.fios.verizon.net) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2021-05-27 01:44:30 +0200dustingetz(~textual@pool-173-49-123-198.phlapa.fios.verizon.net)
2021-05-27 01:44:41 +0200vicfred(~vicfred@user/vicfred)
2021-05-27 01:45:48 +0200 <sm> it says here CMD doesn't support ANSI codes, use mintty
2021-05-27 01:45:54 +0200waleee(~waleee@2001:9b0:216:8200:d457:9189:7843:1dbd) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-05-27 01:46:12 +0200 <sm> also "run the program in the same environment it was built in"
2021-05-27 01:46:25 +0200lavaman(~lavaman@98.38.249.169) ()
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2021-05-27 01:48:51 +0200lucjan(~lucjan@user/lucjan)
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2021-05-27 01:54:09 +0200khaledez___(uid500682@id-500682.tooting.irccloud.com) ()
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2021-05-27 02:03:54 +0200khumba(~kvirc@S01066038e0ca1250.ok.shawcable.net)
2021-05-27 02:05:27 +0200 <edwardk> > "freenode" & base 36 -~ 1233806175148
2021-05-27 02:05:29 +0200 <lambdabot> "libera"
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2021-05-27 02:14:03 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@89.46.62.66) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-05-27 02:14:05 +0200 <monochrom> Uh this only reminds me that every algorithm corresponds to a natural number...
2021-05-27 02:15:00 +0200 <kollin> up to enumeration scheme
2021-05-27 02:15:23 +0200waleee(~waleee@2001:9b0:216:8200:d457:9189:7843:1dbd) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-05-27 02:15:45 +0200 <monochrom> There exists an operator # such that for every desired output y there exists a number x such that "monochrom" # x = y. This makes my nick look very fundamental and universal...
2021-05-27 02:18:17 +0200 <kollin> (was just checking if #haskell is available from libera)
2021-05-27 02:18:23 +0200kollin(~kollin@95-25-152-112.broadband.corbina.ru) (Quit: Connection closed)
2021-05-27 02:18:43 +0200 <monochrom> COME BACK!!!!!
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2021-05-27 03:30:05 +0200 <geekosaur> hah. someone already registered "rasengone"
2021-05-27 03:30:40 +0200Ranhir(~Ranhir@157.97.53.139) (Quit: KVIrc 5.0.0 Aria http://www.kvirc.net/)
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2021-05-27 03:35:26 +0200 <monochrom> heh
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2021-05-27 03:55:51 +0200anon57342(~anon57342@79.105.25.79)
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2021-05-27 04:47:21 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@86.106.121.100)
2021-05-27 04:47:24 +0200lechner(~lechner@letbox-vps.us-core.com)
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2021-05-27 04:47:35 +0200myShoggoth(~myShoggot@97-120-89-117.ptld.qwest.net)
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2021-05-27 04:49:17 +0200 <edwardk> i'm just saying if we have a rasenGAN it means we have a generator and a discriminator network, and only one network is discriminating against users of the other at this point.
2021-05-27 04:49:29 +0200yumaikas-(~yumaikas@2601:281:c700:4240:74c8:b58a:1006:7ff1)
2021-05-27 04:49:37 +0200curiousgay_curiousgay
2021-05-27 04:50:11 +0200lechner(~lechner@letbox-vps.us-core.com) (Client Quit)
2021-05-27 04:50:26 +0200lechner(~lechner@letbox-vps.us-core.com)
2021-05-27 04:51:29 +0200 <Axman6> dy made this, and I love them for it https://imgflip.com/i/5b3f7k
2021-05-27 04:51:53 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@86.106.121.100) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-05-27 04:52:02 +0200 <shachaf> edwardk: Oh, I was thinking it was something about a generator of a free node.
2021-05-27 04:52:51 +0200o1lo01ol1o(~o1lo01ol1@cpe-74-72-45-166.nyc.res.rr.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2021-05-27 04:59:25 +0200tddpirate(~omer_zak@2a0d:6fc0:789:f200:a5ea:482d:1acf:8f67)
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2021-05-27 05:06:39 +0200khumba(~kvirc@S01066038e0ca1250.ok.shawcable.net) (Changing host)
2021-05-27 05:06:39 +0200khumba(~kvirc@user/khumba)
2021-05-27 05:07:02 +0200khumba(~kvirc@user/khumba) ()
2021-05-27 05:07:20 +0200myShoggoth(~myShoggot@97-120-89-117.ptld.qwest.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-05-27 05:07:39 +0200myShoggoth(~myShoggot@97-120-89-117.ptld.qwest.net)
2021-05-27 05:07:51 +0200khumba(~kvirc@user/khumba)
2021-05-27 05:08:55 +0200 <edwardk> right now the problem is that freenode is down to one generator, when there were more of them..
2021-05-27 05:10:12 +0200wagle(~wagle@quassel.wagle.io)
2021-05-27 05:14:57 +0200pranwsaladonion
2021-05-27 05:15:39 +0200 <tddpirate> What do you mean by 'generator'?
2021-05-27 05:17:23 +0200abhixec(~abhixec@c-67-169-139-16.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Quit: leaving)
2021-05-27 05:17:52 +0200 <edwardk> as in generator of a free group, not a terribly sophisticated reference. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_group
2021-05-27 05:19:56 +0200kewa(~kewa@5.138.211.57) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-05-27 05:20:25 +0200 <tapas> i've officially dropped all of my nicks
2021-05-27 05:20:34 +0200 <tapas> RIP, lasted 12 yeras
2021-05-27 05:20:37 +0200 <tapas> *years
2021-05-27 05:20:52 +0200Lord_of_Life_(~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915)
2021-05-27 05:20:57 +0200Lord_of_Life(~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-05-27 05:20:58 +0200 <unyu> edwardk: So how do we find relations to show that the group is no longer free?
2021-05-27 05:21:30 +0200hughjfchen(~hughjfche@2409:8954:32d4:7cbd:a8c8:815d:e613:614a)
2021-05-27 05:21:35 +0200nitrixheadpats unyu.
2021-05-27 05:21:44 +0200 <unyu> nitrix: Hello.
2021-05-27 05:21:51 +0200Lord_of_Life_Lord_of_Life
2021-05-27 05:22:18 +0200hughjfchen(~hughjfche@2409:8954:32d4:7cbd:a8c8:815d:e613:614a) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-05-27 05:22:43 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@86.106.121.17)
2021-05-27 05:22:58 +0200ku(~ku@2601:280:c780:7ea0:8d75:13f2:a7bb:13b1) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-05-27 05:23:02 +0200hughjfchen(~hughjfche@2409:8954:32d4:7cbd:a8c8:815d:e613:614a)
2021-05-27 05:23:09 +0200Xentripetal(~Core2634@2600:1700:7720:cf80:e5c9:ba10:fef:d134)
2021-05-27 05:23:41 +0200hughjfchen(~hughjfche@2409:8954:32d4:7cbd:a8c8:815d:e613:614a) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-05-27 05:27:54 +0200y04nn(~y04nn@185.204.1.208) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-05-27 05:28:28 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@86.106.121.17) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-05-27 05:31:17 +0200lavaman(~lavaman@98.38.249.169) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-05-27 05:31:34 +0200dmwit(~dmwit@pool-173-66-86-32.washdc.fios.verizon.net)
2021-05-27 05:34:21 +0200glowcoil(sid3405@id-3405.tinside.irccloud.com)
2021-05-27 05:37:27 +0200tddpirate(~omer_zak@2a0d:6fc0:789:f200:a5ea:482d:1acf:8f67) (Leaving)
2021-05-27 05:38:04 +0200jao(~jao@cpc103048-sgyl39-2-0-cust502.18-2.cable.virginm.net) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-05-27 05:38:06 +0200lu(~lu@user/lu) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-05-27 05:38:07 +0200XentripetalCore1950
2021-05-27 05:38:18 +0200Core1950xentripetal
2021-05-27 05:38:28 +0200yumaikas-(~yumaikas@2601:281:c700:4240:74c8:b58a:1006:7ff1) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-05-27 05:39:11 +0200yumaikas-(~yumaikas@2601:281:c700:4240:74c8:b58a:1006:7ff1)
2021-05-27 05:44:42 +0200notzmv(~zmv@user/notzmv) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-05-27 05:44:52 +0200moet(~moet@172.58.35.238)
2021-05-27 05:47:15 +0200notzmv(~zmv@user/notzmv)
2021-05-27 05:48:39 +0200a6a45081-2b83(~aditya@106.214.73.78) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-05-27 05:50:12 +0200a6a45081-2b83(~aditya@106.214.73.78)
2021-05-27 05:50:24 +0200onion(~yin@user/yin) ()
2021-05-27 05:52:46 +0200boxscape(~boxscape@user/boxscape) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-05-27 05:53:04 +0200moet(~moet@172.58.35.238) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-05-27 05:53:11 +0200onion(~yin@user/yin)
2021-05-27 05:53:14 +0200onion(~yin@user/yin) ()
2021-05-27 05:55:09 +0200meejah(~meejah@rutas.meejah.ca) (Quit: Reconnecting)
2021-05-27 05:55:18 +0200meejah(~meejah@rutas.meejah.ca)
2021-05-27 05:58:09 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@86.106.121.75)
2021-05-27 05:58:09 +0200mig(~mig@2405:6580:b1c0:2500:3c98:f151:a0d9:62c7) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-05-27 06:00:20 +0200da39a3ee5e6b4b0d(~textual@2403:6200:8876:ee80:d1f8:2f2f:4629:dfc9) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2021-05-27 06:02:14 +0200Scotty_Trees(~Scotty_Tr@162-234-179-169.lightspeed.brhmal.sbcglobal.net) (Quit: Leaving)
2021-05-27 06:04:13 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@86.106.121.75) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-05-27 06:04:48 +0200pilipilihoho(~pilipilih@108.180.14.158) (Quit: See ya!)
2021-05-27 06:05:50 +0200nate1(~nate@108-233-125-227.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) (Quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2021-05-27 06:06:11 +0200nate1(~nate@108-233-125-227.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
2021-05-27 06:06:46 +0200nate1(~nate@108-233-125-227.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) (Client Quit)
2021-05-27 06:07:17 +0200nate1(~nate@108-233-125-227.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
2021-05-27 06:07:28 +0200a6a45081-2b83(~aditya@106.214.73.78) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-05-27 06:08:09 +0200nate1natechan
2021-05-27 06:08:14 +0200lavaman(~lavaman@98.38.249.169)
2021-05-27 06:10:07 +0200alexeikale(~manjaro-u@2601:1c2:1b80:100:4ea5:a35a:95ba:fcb1) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2021-05-27 06:12:46 +0200yumaikas-(~yumaikas@2601:281:c700:4240:74c8:b58a:1006:7ff1) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-05-27 06:13:06 +0200yumaikas-(~yumaikas@2601:281:c700:4240:74c8:b58a:1006:7ff1)
2021-05-27 06:13:52 +0200Athas(athas@2a01:7c8:aaac:1cf:f685:221c:33ac:efb6) (Quit: ZNC 1.8.2 - https://znc.in)
2021-05-27 06:14:01 +0200Athas(athas@sigkill.dk)
2021-05-27 06:16:35 +0200SeemedLikeAGoodI(~whateverm@pool-108-54-183-148.nycmny.fios.verizon.net)
2021-05-27 06:16:58 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@86.106.121.87)
2021-05-27 06:18:52 +0200ThatsWhatIDo(~whateverm@pool-108-54-183-148.nycmny.fios.verizon.net) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-05-27 06:21:22 +0200xlei_(znc@pool-68-129-84-118.nycmny.fios.verizon.net)
2021-05-27 06:21:46 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@86.106.121.87) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-05-27 06:22:22 +0200xlei(znc@pool-68-129-84-118.nycmny.fios.verizon.net) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-05-27 06:22:22 +0200xlei_xlei
2021-05-27 06:24:46 +0200dmwit(~dmwit@pool-173-66-86-32.washdc.fios.verizon.net) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-05-27 06:25:56 +0200justsomeguy(~justsomeg@user/justsomeguy) (Quit: WeeChat 3.0.1)
2021-05-27 06:26:31 +0200dmwit(~dmwit@pool-173-66-86-32.washdc.fios.verizon.net)
2021-05-27 06:28:39 +0200img(~img@2405:6580:b1c0:2500:3c98:f151:a0d9:62c7)
2021-05-27 06:30:00 +0200o1lo01ol1o(~o1lo01ol1@cpe-74-72-45-166.nyc.res.rr.com)
2021-05-27 06:30:22 +0200alexeikale(~alexeikal@2601:1c2:1b80:100:4ea5:a35a:95ba:fcb1)
2021-05-27 06:30:55 +0200 <alexeikale> join #haskell-offtopic
2021-05-27 06:31:31 +0200alexeikale(~alexeikal@2601:1c2:1b80:100:4ea5:a35a:95ba:fcb1) ()
2021-05-27 06:32:23 +0200lavaman(~lavaman@98.38.249.169) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-05-27 06:34:28 +0200o1lo01ol1o(~o1lo01ol1@cpe-74-72-45-166.nyc.res.rr.com) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-05-27 06:35:26 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@89.46.62.108)
2021-05-27 06:36:10 +0200yumaikas-(~yumaikas@2601:281:c700:4240:74c8:b58a:1006:7ff1) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-05-27 06:39:12 +0200fiddlerwoaroofedwlan
2021-05-27 06:39:54 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@89.46.62.108) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-05-27 06:39:55 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
2021-05-27 06:40:49 +0200MorrowM(~MorrowM_@147.161.9.230)
2021-05-27 06:43:22 +0200abrar(~abrar@static-108-30-103-121.nycmny.fios.verizon.net) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-05-27 06:43:46 +0200abrar(~abrar@static-108-30-103-121.nycmny.fios.verizon.net)
2021-05-27 06:44:29 +0200Morrow(~MorrowM_@147.161.9.80) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-05-27 06:45:23 +0200MorrowM(~MorrowM_@147.161.9.230) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-05-27 06:45:56 +0200hiruji(~hiruji@user/hiruji) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-05-27 06:46:44 +0200hiruji(~hiruji@user/hiruji)
2021-05-27 06:50:17 +0200xlei(znc@pool-68-129-84-118.nycmny.fios.verizon.net) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-05-27 06:51:02 +0200ornxka(~ornxka@user/ornxka) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-05-27 06:58:03 +0200hiptobecubic(~john@c-73-55-99-95.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-05-27 07:04:54 +0200ornxka(~ornxka@207.246.90.152)
2021-05-27 07:06:07 +0200ornxka(~ornxka@207.246.90.152) (Changing host)
2021-05-27 07:06:07 +0200ornxka(~ornxka@user/ornxka)
2021-05-27 07:06:45 +0200Axman6(~Axman6@user/axman6) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-05-27 07:07:00 +0200Axman6(~Axman6@user/axman6)
2021-05-27 07:07:34 +0200rbtEngrDude(~gankoji@2600:8800:a610:3e00:50e7:6309:a8d2:5cb5) (Quit: Leaving)
2021-05-27 07:07:53 +0200alx741(~alx741@186.178.109.84) (Quit: alx741)
2021-05-27 07:09:25 +0200xlei(znc@pool-68-129-84-118.nycmny.fios.verizon.net)
2021-05-27 07:10:21 +0200haskman(~haskman@223.190.83.69)
2021-05-27 07:10:31 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@86.106.121.109)
2021-05-27 07:11:49 +0200Gurkenglas(~Gurkengla@dslb-088-075-022-175.088.075.pools.vodafone-ip.de)
2021-05-27 07:14:31 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-05-27 07:14:40 +0200wroathe(~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-05-27 07:15:18 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@86.106.121.109) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-05-27 07:21:16 +0200guest0123(~aaron@2601:602:a080:fa0:745b:c700:b4c:aac3)
2021-05-27 07:25:14 +0200meiji163(~meiji163@2603-8000-9000-7400-3023-3cc3-41dd-c0a1.res6.spectrum.com)
2021-05-27 07:26:57 +0200gambpang(~ian@207.181.230.156) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-05-27 07:28:19 +0200lavaman(~lavaman@98.38.249.169)
2021-05-27 07:29:24 +0200bfrk(~Thunderbi@200116b845a103000156427e7b23f5f6.dip.versatel-1u1.de)
2021-05-27 07:30:10 +0200eal(~eal@customer-46-39-107-10.stosn.net) (ERC (IRC client for Emacs 27.2))
2021-05-27 07:30:50 +0200Guest85(~Guest85@157-131-242-180.fiber.dynamic.sonic.net)
2021-05-27 07:32:17 +0200xkapastel(uid17782@id-17782.tinside.irccloud.com) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2021-05-27 07:32:23 +0200Guest85(~Guest85@157-131-242-180.fiber.dynamic.sonic.net) (Client Quit)
2021-05-27 07:32:51 +0200lavaman(~lavaman@98.38.249.169) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-05-27 07:32:54 +0200Guest85(~Guest85@157-131-242-180.fiber.dynamic.sonic.net)
2021-05-27 07:33:04 +0200lavaman(~lavaman@98.38.249.169)
2021-05-27 07:33:12 +0200Guest85(~Guest85@157-131-242-180.fiber.dynamic.sonic.net) (Client Quit)
2021-05-27 07:33:29 +0200 <meiji163> hi
2021-05-27 07:34:53 +0200spider(~spider@vps-951ce37a.vps.ovh.ca)
2021-05-27 07:35:02 +0200spiderspider_
2021-05-27 07:35:25 +0200MasterControl(~Master@238.140.4.85.dynamic.wline.res.cust.swisscom.ch) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-05-27 07:35:59 +0200coot(~coot@37.30.49.19.nat.umts.dynamic.t-mobile.pl)
2021-05-27 07:36:08 +0200spider_(~spider@vps-951ce37a.vps.ovh.ca) (Client Quit)
2021-05-27 07:36:36 +0200spider_(~spider@vps-951ce37a.vps.ovh.ca)
2021-05-27 07:37:59 +0200MorrowM(~MorrowM_@147.161.14.173)
2021-05-27 07:38:35 +0200sondre(~sondrelun@cm-84.212.100.140.getinternet.no)
2021-05-27 07:38:42 +0200ntm(~ntm@69-212-61-243.lightspeed.cicril.sbcglobal.net)
2021-05-27 07:38:54 +0200 <Axman6> hello meiji163!
2021-05-27 07:40:41 +0200unyu(~pyon@user/pyon) (Quit: WeeChat 3.1)
2021-05-27 07:40:52 +0200meiji163(~meiji163@2603-8000-9000-7400-3023-3cc3-41dd-c0a1.res6.spectrum.com) (Quit: WeeChat 3.1)
2021-05-27 07:43:11 +0200buggy(~buggy@27.6.222.224)
2021-05-27 07:43:25 +0200buggy(~buggy@27.6.222.224) (Changing host)
2021-05-27 07:43:25 +0200buggy(~buggy@user/smorgasbord)
2021-05-27 07:44:19 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@89.46.62.48)
2021-05-27 07:46:08 +0200kewa(~kewa@5.138.211.57)
2021-05-27 07:48:07 +0200doc2vk3wtf
2021-05-27 07:48:52 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@89.46.62.48) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-05-27 07:49:22 +0200myShoggoth(~myShoggot@97-120-89-117.ptld.qwest.net) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-05-27 07:50:34 +0200xandaros(~xandaros@user/xandaros) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-05-27 07:51:53 +0200ksqsf(~textual@67.209.186.120.16clouds.com)
2021-05-27 07:52:43 +0200vk3wtf(~doc@59-102-3-251.tpgi.com.au) (Quit: WeeChat 3.1)
2021-05-27 07:52:58 +0200doc1(~doc@59-102-3-251.tpgi.com.au)
2021-05-27 07:53:03 +0200doc1vk3wtf
2021-05-27 07:53:09 +0200Pseudonym(~Pseudonym@118.211.110.39)
2021-05-27 07:58:36 +0200Franciman(~francesco@host-80-180-196-134.retail.telecomitalia.it)
2021-05-27 07:59:44 +0200Guest11(~textual@146.212.240.255)
2021-05-27 08:02:54 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@89.46.62.125)
2021-05-27 08:03:03 +0200Kevin578(~Kevin578@pool-98-110-163-110.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-05-27 08:04:06 +0200xandaros(~xandaros@user/xandaros)
2021-05-27 08:06:13 +0200chexum(~quassel@2a02:a03f:62f9:3f00:6b71:476f:e71b:80b)
2021-05-27 08:07:43 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@89.46.62.125) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-05-27 08:09:40 +0200ukari(~ukari@user/ukari) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-05-27 08:09:54 +0200MrGreen(~MrGreen@103.217.109.88)
2021-05-27 08:10:14 +0200ukari(~ukari@user/ukari)
2021-05-27 08:10:27 +0200MorrowM(~MorrowM_@147.161.14.173) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-05-27 08:10:44 +0200Morrow(~MorrowM_@147.161.14.173)
2021-05-27 08:11:46 +0200lavaman(~lavaman@98.38.249.169) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-05-27 08:12:00 +0200lavaman(~lavaman@98.38.249.169)
2021-05-27 08:12:08 +0200lavaman(~lavaman@98.38.249.169) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-05-27 08:12:23 +0200lavaman(~lavaman@98.38.249.169)
2021-05-27 08:12:30 +0200lavaman(~lavaman@98.38.249.169) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-05-27 08:12:45 +0200lavaman(~lavaman@98.38.249.169)
2021-05-27 08:12:52 +0200lavaman(~lavaman@98.38.249.169) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-05-27 08:13:07 +0200lavaman(~lavaman@98.38.249.169)
2021-05-27 08:13:13 +0200lavaman(~lavaman@98.38.249.169) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-05-27 08:13:38 +0200da39a3ee5e6b4b0d(~textual@mx-ll-171.6.241-188.dynamic.3bb.co.th)
2021-05-27 08:13:54 +0200sondre(~sondrelun@cm-84.212.100.140.getinternet.no) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-05-27 08:14:35 +0200imdoor(~imdoor@balticom-142-78-50.balticom.lv)
2021-05-27 08:15:21 +0200lortabac(~lortabac@2a01:e0a:541:b8f0:2343:c6dc:9eb2:eac7)
2021-05-27 08:17:07 +0200v01d4lph4(~v01d4lph4@122.160.65.250)
2021-05-27 08:17:07 +0200v01d4lph4(~v01d4lph4@122.160.65.250) (Changing host)
2021-05-27 08:17:07 +0200v01d4lph4(~v01d4lph4@user/v01d4lph4)
2021-05-27 08:17:51 +0200haskman(~haskman@223.190.83.69) (Quit: Going to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2021-05-27 08:18:13 +0200berberman_(~berberman@user/berberman)
2021-05-27 08:18:39 +0200o1lo01ol1o(~o1lo01ol1@cpe-74-72-45-166.nyc.res.rr.com)
2021-05-27 08:19:22 +0200berberman(~berberman@user/berberman) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-05-27 08:19:55 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@89.46.62.53)
2021-05-27 08:19:58 +0200radw(~radw@user/radw) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-05-27 08:20:14 +0200edwlanfiddlerwoaroof
2021-05-27 08:21:02 +0200radw(~radw@user/radw)
2021-05-27 08:21:10 +0200kewa(~kewa@5.138.211.57) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-05-27 08:22:13 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@89.46.62.53) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-05-27 08:22:55 +0200michalz(~user@185.246.204.50)
2021-05-27 08:23:06 +0200o1lo01ol1o(~o1lo01ol1@cpe-74-72-45-166.nyc.res.rr.com) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-05-27 08:24:07 +0200dhouthoo(~dhouthoo@178-117-36-167.access.telenet.be)
2021-05-27 08:24:37 +0200Guest6618(~Guest66@66.115.157.132)
2021-05-27 08:24:48 +0200kewa(~kewa@5.138.211.57)
2021-05-27 08:25:16 +0200koolazer(~koo@user/koolazer)
2021-05-27 08:27:01 +0200pe200012(~pe200012@120.236.162.14)
2021-05-27 08:27:11 +0200fizbin(~fizbin@c-73-33-197-160.hsd1.nj.comcast.net)
2021-05-27 08:29:12 +0200Guest6618(~Guest66@66.115.157.132) (Quit: Connection closed)
2021-05-27 08:29:15 +0200sheepduck(~sheepduck@2607:fea8:2a60:b700::5d55) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-05-27 08:30:57 +0200fabfianda(~fabfianda@net-93-148-125-174.cust.vodafonedsl.it) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-05-27 08:31:01 +0200sa1(uid7690@id-7690.charlton.irccloud.com) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2021-05-27 08:31:32 +0200fabfianda(~fabfianda@net-93-148-125-174.cust.dsl.teletu.it)
2021-05-27 08:31:58 +0200fizbin(~fizbin@c-73-33-197-160.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-05-27 08:31:58 +0200urdh(~urdh@h88-129-148-132.cust.a3fiber.se) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-05-27 08:35:45 +0200hello(~hello@66.115.157.132)
2021-05-27 08:35:53 +0200Tomurb(~tom@158.194.92.121)
2021-05-27 08:36:09 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@89.46.62.60)
2021-05-27 08:36:09 +0200hello(~hello@66.115.157.132) (Client Quit)
2021-05-27 08:39:00 +0200ubert(~Thunderbi@p200300ecdf259d7974882ed522245916.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2021-05-27 08:39:02 +0200fabfianda(~fabfianda@net-93-148-125-174.cust.dsl.teletu.it) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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2021-05-27 09:49:17 +0200 <joel135> kakuhen: http://math.andrej.com/2016/08/06/hask-is-not-a-category/
2021-05-27 09:50:35 +0200 <kakuhen> yeah, looks like this pesky "undefined" term just ruins everything
2021-05-27 09:50:46 +0200alinab(sid468903@id-468903.brockwell.irccloud.com)
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2021-05-27 09:52:41 +0200prite(~pritam@user/pritambaral)
2021-05-27 09:53:34 +0200 <nitrix> Seems to me like any _|_ bottom substitute would have the same problem, though I recall a talk on the design of Haskell and it seemed to be like System Fw was precisely engineered to have those, as opposed to some other popular models.
2021-05-27 09:53:54 +0200 <kakuhen> though a little birdie told me it's something you can safely "ignore" from the type system because it's primary purpose is a hack so you can compile incomplete code
2021-05-27 09:53:56 +0200 <dminuoso> kakuhen: That's not what the article says.
2021-05-27 09:53:57 +0200 <nitrix> It's a little blurry.
2021-05-27 09:54:48 +0200spirgel(spirgel@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/spirgel)
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2021-05-27 09:55:17 +0200 <kakuhen> dminuoso: how do you interpret the argument?
2021-05-27 09:55:48 +0200 <kakuhen> i haven't read the supplemental arguments yet, but the biggest issue im seeing involves the fact that the "supposed identity morphisms" aren't really identities
2021-05-27 09:55:49 +0200zeenk(~zeenk@2a02:2f04:a310:b600:b098:bf18:df4d:4c41)
2021-05-27 09:56:03 +0200 <dminuoso> kakuhen: The problem is there's no formal definition/construction of that thing "Hask". It's a blurry and handwaving notion without specification.
2021-05-27 09:56:07 +0200oxide(~lambda@user/oxide) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2021-05-27 09:56:11 +0200 <kakuhen> I see
2021-05-27 09:56:12 +0200 <joel135> It would be cool to implement an actual category called Hask in agda somehow, and then somehow use it to talk to a haskell process.
2021-05-27 09:56:42 +0200 <kakuhen> My interpretation of Bauer's argument was mostly "with the current handwavy definition, we can't even check off all the axioms of a category, and the following proposed solutions still have issues."
2021-05-27 09:58:05 +0200haskman(~haskman@223.190.83.69)
2021-05-27 09:58:14 +0200oxide(~lambda@user/oxide)
2021-05-27 09:58:18 +0200dypissnet
2021-05-27 09:58:23 +0200 <joel135> Perhaps one could cook up an adjunction between Hask and Set or something.
2021-05-27 09:58:24 +0200pissnetdy
2021-05-27 09:59:01 +0200 <dminuoso> kakuhen: No, its not that we cant prove it, it's that nobody has defined it.
2021-05-27 10:00:13 +0200 <dminuoso> kakuhen: If you dont specify what `f x = g x` even means, you cant check whether its correct.
2021-05-27 10:00:50 +0200 <kakuhen> right, nobody has defined Hask so that it *is* a category
2021-05-27 10:00:52 +0200ubert(~Thunderbi@p200300ecdf259d7974882ed522245916.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2021-05-27 10:00:55 +0200michalz(~user@185.246.204.50)
2021-05-27 10:01:16 +0200poljar(~poljar@93-143-155-14.adsl.net.t-com.hr)
2021-05-27 10:01:53 +0200 <kakuhen> in any case, i'm very very new to haskell and i've read some things that have turned out to be false :<
2021-05-27 10:02:06 +0200 <kakuhen> i'm assuming my next disappoint will be the fact that functors in haskell don't behave in any way like functors in math do.
2021-05-27 10:02:21 +0200nsilv(~nsilv@212.103.198.210)
2021-05-27 10:02:55 +0200 <dminuoso> kakuhen: To be fair, one should at the same time also consider https://www.cs.ox.ac.uk/jeremy.gibbons/publications/fast+loose.pdf
2021-05-27 10:03:10 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@89.46.62.17)
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2021-05-27 10:03:21 +0200michalz(~user@185.246.204.60)
2021-05-27 10:03:43 +0200 <joel135> I think Hask is a category to the same extent that you can do Euclidean category freehand.
2021-05-27 10:03:54 +0200 <dminuoso> In this lose handwaving notion, you usually pretend that seq does not exist, and that your program terminates.
2021-05-27 10:03:54 +0200poljar1(~poljar@93-139-109-71.adsl.net.t-com.hr) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-05-27 10:04:25 +0200 <joel135> It is hard to draw circles.
2021-05-27 10:04:58 +0200 <joel135> The sheet of paper is bounded.
2021-05-27 10:05:03 +0200 <kakuhen> let me try it a few hundred times with my compass !
2021-05-27 10:05:10 +0200 <dminuoso> kakuhen: And in fact, folks like edwardk seem to pull a lot of weight from applying category theory to Haskell.
2021-05-27 10:05:32 +0200 <dminuoso> So clearly it is useful to some degree.
2021-05-27 10:05:33 +0200 <kakuhen> dminuoso: i appreciate the 2nd paper, but a lot of it goes over my head sadly.
2021-05-27 10:06:04 +0200epolanski(uid312403@id-312403.brockwell.irccloud.com)
2021-05-27 10:06:23 +0200dhil(~dhil@195.213.192.85)
2021-05-27 10:06:48 +0200o1lo01ol1o(~o1lo01ol1@cpe-74-72-45-166.nyc.res.rr.com)
2021-05-27 10:06:48 +0200epolanski(uid312403@id-312403.brockwell.irccloud.com) (Client Quit)
2021-05-27 10:06:53 +0200 <joel135> s/category/geometry/ xD
2021-05-27 10:07:00 +0200wallymathieu(~wallymath@81-234-151-21-no94.tbcn.telia.com)
2021-05-27 10:07:11 +0200 <kakuhen> We already have cartesian closure, why not define euclidean closure :3c
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2021-05-27 10:32:27 +0200dminuoso(~dminuoso@static.88-198-218-68.clients.your-server.de) (Changing host)
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2021-05-27 10:37:28 +0200 <tdammers> bottoms are inevitable in a turing-complete language, aren't they
2021-05-27 10:37:40 +0200tonyz(~tonyz@user/tonyz)
2021-05-27 10:37:56 +0200 <mniip> 🥺
2021-05-27 10:38:06 +0200tonyz(~tonyz@user/tonyz) ()
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2021-05-27 11:00:03 +0200Torro(Torro@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/torro)
2021-05-27 11:00:18 +0200eggplantade(~Eggplanta@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:b043:8b77:c7da:42a0) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
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2021-05-27 11:03:39 +0200space-shell(~space-she@88.98.247.38)
2021-05-27 11:05:02 +0200 <dminuoso> /home/dminuoso/wobcom/projects/freyja/dist-newstyle/build/x86_64-linux/ghc-8.8.4/freyja-0.4.0.0/l/freyja-lib/noopt/build/freyja-lib/libHSfreyja-0.4.0.0-inplace-freyja-lib.a(IPUtils.o)(.text..LruUS_info+0x14): error: undefined reference to 'ipzm1zi7zi3zm4668157351bfd065b5138d0033c408000ad61c3db5993a261c8759c634d1374e_NetziIPv4_range_closure'
2021-05-27 11:05:08 +0200 <dminuoso> Linker errors! Do I get a prize?
2021-05-27 11:06:16 +0200 <dminuoso> Not bad, nuking dist-newstyle helped.
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2021-05-27 11:41:21 +0200 <tomsmeding> nice symbol name
2021-05-27 11:41:32 +0200 <taeaad> Why are there so many people that code in Haskell these days? FB uses Haskell, who else?
2021-05-27 11:41:42 +0200 <taeaad> I can join off-topic maybe.
2021-05-27 11:43:48 +0200da39a3ee5e6b4b0d(~textual@2403:6200:8876:ee80:447b:c412:6cc3:c2bf)
2021-05-27 11:45:04 +0200 <dminuoso> I think it's quite ontop.
2021-05-27 11:45:26 +0200jonathanclarke(~jonathanc@103.10.31.4)
2021-05-27 11:45:34 +0200 <dminuoso> Whether "many use them" is debatable.
2021-05-27 11:45:36 +0200fizbin(~fizbin@c-73-33-197-160.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-05-27 11:45:44 +0200 <dminuoso> Oh.
2021-05-27 11:45:47 +0200 <dminuoso> The topic moved to offtopic.
2021-05-27 11:45:53 +0200 <tomsmeding> it did :)
2021-05-27 11:46:09 +0200 <tomsmeding> the topic is now off-topic
2021-05-27 11:46:22 +0200 <dminuoso> Although its quite ontopic.
2021-05-27 11:46:30 +0200 <dminuoso> It's offtopic for -offtopic.
2021-05-27 11:46:33 +0200 <dminuoso> :)
2021-05-27 11:47:22 +0200 <Taneb> Maybe it should be in #haskell-offtopic-offtopic
2021-05-27 11:47:58 +0200 <tdammers> wouldn't that just be #haskell, minus category theory jokes?
2021-05-27 11:48:56 +0200 <dminuoso> Why dont we have #cocohaskell, for extra category theory jokes?
2021-05-27 11:49:06 +0200imdoor(~imdoor@balticom-142-78-50.balticom.lv) (Quit: imdoor)
2021-05-27 11:49:29 +0200 <Taneb> A category theorist's favourite breakfast cereal is pops?
2021-05-27 11:50:27 +0200haskman(~haskman@223.190.83.69) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-05-27 11:50:34 +0200ku(~ku@2601:280:c780:7ea0:8d75:13f2:a7bb:13b1) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-05-27 11:50:38 +0200aez(~aez@zoo-zarebski.zoo.ox.ac.uk)
2021-05-27 11:52:02 +0200 <tdammers> I believe some also like fresh nuts
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2021-05-27 12:09:11 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@89.46.62.36)
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2021-05-27 12:13:15 +0200lemmih(~lemmih@2406:3003:2072:44:a0fb:4a2e:4541:1c1d)
2021-05-27 12:14:11 +0200raehik(~raehik@cpc95906-rdng25-2-0-cust156.15-3.cable.virginm.net)
2021-05-27 12:14:40 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@89.46.62.36) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-05-27 12:15:34 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-05-27 12:17:06 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
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2021-05-27 12:17:43 +0200 <arahael> If this is "has kell", shouldn't we have a "no kell" channel? ;)
2021-05-27 12:18:19 +0200holy_(~h01y_b4z0@2400:adc1:178:c800:9e45:76a9:57f2:1665) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-05-27 12:18:27 +0200azeem(~azeem@dynamic-adsl-84-220-228-254.clienti.tiscali.it)
2021-05-27 12:18:40 +0200 <Taneb> I've never had kell and if I did I would go to a doctor
2021-05-27 12:18:52 +0200Ranhir(~Ranhir@157.97.53.139) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-05-27 12:20:03 +0200 <opqdonut> what did j say when h asked for a favour? "h, ask ell!"
2021-05-27 12:20:48 +0200 <dminuoso> Can we have a fork of GHC implementing Cohaskell? Here's the cotype of `fmap :: f b <- f a <- (b <- a) <= Functor f`
2021-05-27 12:21:37 +0200 <dminuoso> Could help with adoption in Arabic regions.
2021-05-27 12:21:50 +0200__monty__(~toonn@user/toonn) (Quit: brb)
2021-05-27 12:22:12 +0200__monty__(~toonn@user/toonn)
2021-05-27 12:22:20 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2021-05-27 12:22:35 +0200 <boxscape> shouldn't it be Contravariant f
2021-05-27 12:22:52 +0200 <dminuoso> boxscape: Nope!
2021-05-27 12:22:53 +0200__monty__(~toonn@user/toonn) (Client Quit)
2021-05-27 12:22:55 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
2021-05-27 12:23:06 +0200 <dminuoso> The dual of Functor is still.. functor.
2021-05-27 12:23:15 +0200 <boxscape> oh, right, that's why it's not a cofuncor
2021-05-27 12:23:19 +0200 <boxscape> s//t
2021-05-27 12:23:21 +0200 <tomsmeding> in co- arrows flip, right? So it would be `fmap :: f b -> f a -> (b -> a) => Functor f`
2021-05-27 12:23:33 +0200 <sshine> ɹoʇɔunℲ
2021-05-27 12:23:42 +0200 <dminuoso> tomsmeding: cunning.
2021-05-27 12:23:53 +0200__monty__(~toonn@user/toonn)
2021-05-27 12:24:21 +0200ku(~ku@2601:280:c780:7ea0:8d75:13f2:a7bb:13b1)
2021-05-27 12:24:22 +0200 <dminuoso> but no
2021-05-27 12:24:25 +0200 <kakuhen> sshine: i propose that as the name for a contravariant functor
2021-05-27 12:24:40 +0200 <kakuhen> a ɹoʇɔunℲ C -> D being a functor C^op -> D
2021-05-27 12:24:45 +0200 <tomsmeding> dminuoso: Oh! I messed up the parens
2021-05-27 12:25:01 +0200 <tomsmeding> fmap :: f b -> (f a -> (b -> a)) => Functor f
2021-05-27 12:25:03 +0200 <tomsmeding> should be that
2021-05-27 12:25:12 +0200autophagy(~mika@2a02:8109:8540:36a0::fccc) (Changing host)
2021-05-27 12:25:12 +0200autophagy(~mika@user/autophagy)
2021-05-27 12:25:29 +0200 <tomsmeding> um
2021-05-27 12:25:33 +0200 <dminuoso> tomsmeding: well I intentionally set the parens the other way in my example, since I presumed all infixr and infixl to be flipped.
2021-05-27 12:25:49 +0200 <tomsmeding> fmap :: (f b -> f a) -> (b -> a) => Functor f, that
2021-05-27 12:25:56 +0200__monty__(~toonn@user/toonn) (Client Quit)
2021-05-27 12:26:07 +0200 <tomsmeding> oh right maybe operator associativity is also flipped, hmm
2021-05-27 12:26:15 +0200kakuhen(~kakuhen@user/kakuhen) (Quit: Leaving...)
2021-05-27 12:26:16 +0200 <tomsmeding> perhaps this needs RFC discussion first
2021-05-27 12:26:21 +0200 <dminuoso> tomsmeding: Mmm, I just realized, this almost looks like a proof of `Functor f`
2021-05-27 12:26:42 +0200 <boxscape> `(f a -> f b) -> a -> b` almost feels like it could be the method for a reasonable class
2021-05-27 12:27:43 +0200 <tomsmeding> doesn't that hold exactly for all trivial newtypes or something
2021-05-27 12:27:50 +0200lcp(~hellcp@83.24.148.243.ipv4.supernova.orange.pl) (Quit: lcp)
2021-05-27 12:27:52 +0200 <boxscape> I guess that's just the dual of fmap?
2021-05-27 12:27:57 +0200 <boxscape> which would make it equivalent to fmap?
2021-05-27 12:28:03 +0200 <boxscape> maybe not
2021-05-27 12:28:08 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@89.46.62.35)
2021-05-27 12:28:44 +0200 <boxscape> you certainly can't get a -> b from IO a -> IO b, so no
2021-05-27 12:28:47 +0200 <dminuoso> tomsmeding: Yeah. It sort of looks like a dictionary constructor.
2021-05-27 12:29:00 +0200 <dminuoso> That makes me wonder
2021-05-27 12:29:14 +0200 <dminuoso> Do we have the machinery to craft dictionaries if we have the individual members as values in our hands?
2021-05-27 12:29:21 +0200__monty__(~toonn@user/toonn)
2021-05-27 12:29:28 +0200 <boxscape> yes, it's called unsafeCoerce
2021-05-27 12:29:38 +0200azeem(~azeem@dynamic-adsl-84-220-228-254.clienti.tiscali.it) (Quit: Connection closed)
2021-05-27 12:29:42 +0200 <merijn> dminuoso: reflection?
2021-05-27 12:29:54 +0200 <merijn> @hackage reflection
2021-05-27 12:29:54 +0200 <lambdabot> https://hackage.haskell.org/package/reflection
2021-05-27 12:30:13 +0200aezzarebski
2021-05-27 12:30:17 +0200 <dminuoso> Mmm doesnt quite look like it
2021-05-27 12:31:16 +0200Ranhir(~Ranhir@157.97.53.139)
2021-05-27 12:31:27 +0200 <boxscape> can you ensure any callee would use your constructed dictionary rather than ghc trying to find a different one?
2021-05-27 12:31:45 +0200 <boxscape> considering it can usually assume coherent instances
2021-05-27 12:32:34 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@89.46.62.35) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-05-27 12:33:04 +0200 <dminuoso> Well dictionaries are passed explicitly in core
2021-05-27 12:33:43 +0200 <boxscape> (ooh, ((f a -> f b) -> a -> b) isn't the dual of fmap because the arrow in the middle doesn't get flipped when you look at the dual of a functor, got it)
2021-05-27 12:33:57 +0200 <boxscape> dminuoso sure lots of things are possible if you program directly in core
2021-05-27 12:34:03 +0200 <dminuoso> withDict :: HasDict c e => e -> (c => r) -> r
2021-05-27 12:34:24 +0200 <dminuoso> So the principle machinery to feed reified dicts already exists in `constraints`
2021-05-27 12:35:15 +0200 <boxscape> hmm I guess since it's polymorphic that might guarantee that the dictionary you supply to withDict is the one that's used
2021-05-27 12:35:22 +0200wallymathieu(~wallymath@81-234-151-21-no94.tbcn.telia.com)
2021-05-27 12:35:41 +0200poljar(~poljar@93-143-155-14.adsl.net.t-com.hr) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-05-27 12:35:53 +0200 <dminuoso> Well, internally this is just pattern matching on `data Dict :: Constraint -> * where Dict :: a => Dict a`
2021-05-27 12:36:01 +0200 <dminuoso> So its still the constraint solver that does its magic
2021-05-27 12:36:05 +0200poljar(~poljar@93-139-119-30.adsl.net.t-com.hr)
2021-05-27 12:36:50 +0200yoctocell(~user@h87-96-130-155.cust.a3fiber.se)
2021-05-27 12:37:22 +0200 <dminuoso> I suppose the way to do what Im thinking, is simply newtypes
2021-05-27 12:37:45 +0200ubert(~Thunderbi@p200300ecdf259d7974882ed522245916.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-05-27 12:37:45 +0200ubert1ubert
2021-05-27 12:37:53 +0200 <dminuoso> That is, create a newtype, supply an instance, and then use stuff like coerce/ala/friends
2021-05-27 12:38:04 +0200ub(~Thunderbi@p200300ecdf259d7974882ed522245916.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2021-05-27 12:38:17 +0200nsilv(~nsilv@37.163.54.40) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-05-27 12:40:42 +0200 <Philonous_> According to the haskell wiki. ByteStrings have 9 words overhead, why is that? As far as I can see it should 1 word for the constructor, 1 word for the unpacked Int (the length) and 1 for the ForeignPtr to the data
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2021-05-27 13:03:56 +0200 <[exa]> Philonous_: lazy or strict ones? I'd believe this could work with lazy ones.
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2021-05-27 13:21:25 +0200 <dminuoso> Philonous_: refer to http://blog.johantibell.com/2011/06/computing-size-of-hashmap.html
2021-05-27 13:21:43 +0200 <dminuoso> At first glance, it seems the 9 bytes is old.
2021-05-27 13:21:47 +0200 <dminuoso> *9 words
2021-05-27 13:22:30 +0200Gurkenglas(~Gurkengla@dslb-088-075-022-175.088.075.pools.vodafone-ip.de) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-05-27 13:22:47 +0200oxide(~lambda@user/oxide)
2021-05-27 13:23:57 +0200 <dminuoso> Presumably bytestring got reworked, but the memory requirements table was not updated
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2021-05-27 13:24:24 +0200Megant(~kaitsu@user/megant)
2021-05-27 13:24:24 +0200ts1st
2021-05-27 13:24:56 +0200urdh(~urdh@h88-129-148-132.cust.a3fiber.se)
2021-05-27 13:26:15 +0200 <dminuoso> So judging from this, you're also off on your assumption about ForeignPtr, there's more than just an address in there
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2021-05-27 13:30:59 +0200lavaman(~lavaman@98.38.249.169)
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2021-05-27 13:32:07 +0200 <dminuoso> If my math isnt off, it seems a current ByteString has 8 bytes of overhead it created on the heap
2021-05-27 13:32:13 +0200 <dminuoso> plus the content
2021-05-27 13:32:23 +0200 <dminuoso> *8 words.
2021-05-27 13:32:25 +0200 <dminuoso> gosh
2021-05-27 13:33:07 +0200 <Philonous_> Right, they removed the offset
2021-05-27 13:33:15 +0200 <kritzefitz> Is it just me or is it kinda confusing that ForeignPtrs are freed by Haskell's (i.e. the “native”) garbage collector?
2021-05-27 13:34:18 +0200smitop(uid328768@user/smitop)
2021-05-27 13:34:30 +0200guest0123(~aaron@2601:602:a080:fa0:745b:c700:b4c:aac3) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-05-27 13:34:58 +0200ku(~ku@2601:280:c780:7ea0:8d75:13f2:a7bb:13b1) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-05-27 13:35:34 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-05-27 13:37:03 +0200 <adamse> kritzefitz: what the gc does with the underlying storage depends a bit on what ForeignPtr you have right?
2021-05-27 13:38:12 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@86.106.121.23)
2021-05-27 13:39:00 +0200 <kritzefitz> adamse, yeah, forget that said “freed”. I'm mostly bugged by the fact that ForeignPtrs are tracked by the garbage collector while non-foreign Ptrs aren't (apart from the pointer itself).
2021-05-27 13:40:27 +0200 <dminuoso> Well, isnt that the whole point of them?
2021-05-27 13:40:44 +0200lcp(~hellcp@83.24.148.243.ipv4.supernova.orange.pl) (Quit: lcp)
2021-05-27 13:40:52 +0200 <dminuoso> Or do you expect the finalizers to fire magically, without assistance?
2021-05-27 13:41:09 +0200hellcp(~hellcp@83.24.148.243.ipv4.supernova.orange.pl)
2021-05-27 13:41:45 +0200hellcp(~hellcp@83.24.148.243.ipv4.supernova.orange.pl) ()
2021-05-27 13:41:53 +0200 <kritzefitz> No, I just find the naming confusing. Like, both Ptrs but ForeignPtrs point to foreign data. I don't see how adding “Foreign” to the name signifies the tracking by the gc.
2021-05-27 13:42:25 +0200YiChen`(~user@222.94.45.34) (ERC (IRC client for Emacs 28.0.50))
2021-05-27 13:42:41 +0200 <dminuoso> The word foreign denotes that the memory region is, usually, managed by a foreign library.
2021-05-27 13:42:53 +0200danidiaz(~ESDPC@static-184-112-86-188.ipcom.comunitel.net)
2021-05-27 13:43:10 +0200 <dminuoso> Do you have a better prefix?
2021-05-27 13:43:22 +0200o1lo01ol1o(~o1lo01ol1@cpe-74-72-45-166.nyc.res.rr.com)
2021-05-27 13:43:27 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@86.106.121.23) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2021-05-27 13:43:49 +0200Philonous_Philonous
2021-05-27 13:44:24 +0200 <kritzefitz> Not sure, “GCTracked“ comes to mind, but it seems a bit verbose.
2021-05-27 13:44:53 +0200 <opqdonut> just call them Ptr and Qtr
2021-05-27 13:45:03 +0200 <opqdonut> supports later expansion to Otr and Rtr
2021-05-27 13:45:08 +0200 <opqdonut> or perhaps Ptr and Ptr'
2021-05-27 13:45:35 +0200 <dminuoso> Naming is hard. :)
2021-05-27 13:45:50 +0200 <dminuoso> Eventually you will always find a reason why a chosen name is bad.
2021-05-27 13:46:15 +0200 <__monty__> kritzefitz: But that suggests the memory region is managed by the GC, which isn't what happens right?
2021-05-27 13:47:01 +0200asthasr(~asthasr@162.210.29.120) (Quit: asthasr)
2021-05-27 13:47:57 +0200 <dminuoso> kritzefitz: Usually the intend is that ForeignPtr points towards memory owned/managed by a foreign (ffi) library. The GC interaction is just so finalizers back into FFI can be called whenever Haskell loses track of it.
2021-05-27 13:48:04 +0200 <dminuoso> Personally I find the name okay.
2021-05-27 13:48:16 +0200o1lo01ol1o(~o1lo01ol1@cpe-74-72-45-166.nyc.res.rr.com) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-05-27 13:48:37 +0200 <Philonous> I think it's one of those things that could go both ways, like "safe" and "unsafe" ffi calls. We own the pointer but we have to call a foreign finalizer.
2021-05-27 13:51:31 +0200 <kritzefitz> I don't find the notion that a foreign library “owns” the memory region really useful. Ultimately the GC own no memory, the closest it gets is just borrowing it directly from the kernel. A ForeignPtr feels more native to me in that (usually) the GC decides how long it lives (assuming the finalizer actually causes the foreign libraty to free the memory).
2021-05-27 13:52:25 +0200avzorov(~textual@114.129.18.130)
2021-05-27 13:52:55 +0200 <kritzefitz> Whereas plain Ptrs feel much more foreign in some cases. For example, if we receive a pointer in a call from C to Haskell, we might have no control whatsoever over the lifetime of the memory, because the memory is entirely managed (allocated and freed) by the caller.
2021-05-27 13:53:29 +0200 <dminuoso> Ah, I think I see what you are getting at.
2021-05-27 13:53:59 +0200 <dminuoso> Then yeah, perhaps TrackedPtr would have been a better name.
2021-05-27 13:54:05 +0200 <dminuoso> Or FinalizingPtr
2021-05-27 13:54:17 +0200Brumaire(~quassel@81-64-14-121.rev.numericable.fr)
2021-05-27 13:54:41 +0200guest0123(~aaron@2601:602:a080:fa0:3d68:2a1a:74b4:e9fa)
2021-05-27 13:55:05 +0200 <opqdonut> Ptr is just a pointer with no additional semantics, ForeingPtr is something like AllocatedRegion, right?
2021-05-27 13:55:13 +0200hughjfchen(~hughjfche@120.229.94.210)
2021-05-27 13:55:25 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@89.46.62.112)
2021-05-27 13:55:30 +0200 <dminuoso> ForeignPtr is just a Ptr with finalizers attached to it
2021-05-27 13:56:24 +0200hughjfchen(~hughjfche@120.229.94.210) (Client Quit)
2021-05-27 13:56:55 +0200involans(~alex@cpc92718-cmbg20-2-0-cust157.5-4.cable.virginm.net)
2021-05-27 13:59:29 +0200 <kritzefitz> I don't even want to say that Ptrs are necessarily “more foreign” than ForeignPtrs. Ptrs just seems more general in both directions. The distinction between the two types seems orthogonal to their “foreignness” to me.
2021-05-27 13:59:50 +0200 <kritzefitz> I like FinalizingPtr. It seems really on point about their difference.
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2021-05-27 14:43:59 +0200ac[m](~aloiscoch@2001:470:69fc:105::65)
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2021-05-27 14:54:48 +0200FunctorPunk(~igloo@c-73-119-137-166.hsd1.ma.comcast.net)
2021-05-27 14:56:34 +0200rahguzar(~rahguzar@dynamic-adsl-84-220-228-254.clienti.tiscali.it) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-05-27 14:57:06 +0200 <maerwald> you can tell github was bought by MS... it's starting to show random popups more frequently
2021-05-27 14:57:43 +0200ubikium(~ubikium@113x43x248x70.ap113.ftth.arteria-hikari.net)
2021-05-27 14:59:03 +0200 <Toast52> what kind of popups?
2021-05-27 14:59:04 +0200 <siraben> maerwald: hah, what kinds of popups
2021-05-27 14:59:20 +0200FunctorPunk(~igloo@c-73-119-137-166.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-05-27 14:59:21 +0200rahguzar(~rahguzar@dynamic-adsl-84-220-228-254.clienti.tiscali.it)
2021-05-27 14:59:24 +0200eggplantade(~Eggplanta@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:b043:8b77:c7da:42a0)
2021-05-27 14:59:32 +0200 <maerwald> I dunno, sth about features I don't care about while I was trying to browse a file diff
2021-05-27 14:59:34 +0200caubert(~caubert@136.244.111.235)
2021-05-27 14:59:38 +0200brandonh(~brandonh@151.38.0.85)
2021-05-27 14:59:45 +0200rahguzarGuest3637
2021-05-27 14:59:49 +0200 <maerwald> and it wouldn't hide, until I click it away
2021-05-27 14:59:59 +0200 <maerwald> proper windows flair
2021-05-27 15:00:02 +0200Guest3637(~rahguzar@dynamic-adsl-84-220-228-254.clienti.tiscali.it) (Client Quit)
2021-05-27 15:00:32 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@86.106.121.75)
2021-05-27 15:00:49 +0200sondre(~sondrelun@eduroam-193-157-188-96.wlan.uio.no)
2021-05-27 15:01:40 +0200endre(~endre@91-114-211-69.adsl.highway.telekom.at) (Quit: brb)
2021-05-27 15:02:17 +0200rahguzar(~rahguzar@dynamic-adsl-84-220-228-254.clienti.tiscali.it)
2021-05-27 15:02:35 +0200roconnor(~roconnor@host-45-58-226-129.dyn.295.ca) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2021-05-27 15:03:06 +0200 <dminuoso> maerwald: Proper windows flair would be if you got popups suggesting you get an improved user experience if you browsed github with Edge.
2021-05-27 15:03:08 +0200 <dminuoso> :p
2021-05-27 15:03:37 +0200 <maerwald> I sent feedback telling them I don't want to feel as if I'm using windows
2021-05-27 15:04:10 +0200ub(~Thunderbi@p200300ecdf259d7974882ed522245916.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-05-27 15:04:24 +0200 <maerwald> bad enough I am currently using windows myself... now I get reminded of it when I browse github
2021-05-27 15:04:27 +0200eggplantade(~Eggplanta@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:b043:8b77:c7da:42a0) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-05-27 15:04:29 +0200 <Toast52> kek
2021-05-27 15:04:29 +0200ub(~Thunderbi@p200300ecdf259d7974882ed522245916.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2021-05-27 15:04:56 +0200ac[m](~aloiscoch@2001:470:69fc:105::65) (Quit: node-irc says goodbye)
2021-05-27 15:05:17 +0200 <Toast52> speaking of windows I messed up my install pretty big time trying to probe into the install directory of the windows store apps
2021-05-27 15:06:40 +0200 <Toast52> feels bad
2021-05-27 15:07:04 +0200mceldeen(~igloo@71-33-209-141.hlrn.qwest.net)
2021-05-27 15:08:47 +0200 <rahguzar> Any idea how long it takes hackage-trustees to respond to an email requesting upload permission?
2021-05-27 15:09:42 +0200 <rahguzar> It is probably just me being impatient but I sent a one line email asking for them after creating an account and I would like to upload a package.
2021-05-27 15:10:37 +0200 <dminuoso> rahguzar: Hold on, is this a new package?
2021-05-27 15:10:45 +0200 <dminuoso> Or do you wish to take over maintainership of an abandoned package?
2021-05-27 15:10:52 +0200mceldeen(~igloo@71-33-209-141.hlrn.qwest.net) (Quit: Igloo IRC: https://iglooirc.com)
2021-05-27 15:11:07 +0200mceldeen(~igloo@71-33-209-141.hlrn.qwest.net)
2021-05-27 15:11:46 +0200 <rahguzar> Yes a new one
2021-05-27 15:12:21 +0200buggy(~buggy@27.6.222.224)
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2021-05-27 15:13:17 +0200roconnor_(~roconnor@host-184-164-3-109.dyn.295.ca)
2021-05-27 15:13:22 +0200mceldeen(~igloo@71-33-209-141.hlrn.qwest.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-05-27 15:13:49 +0200ac[m](~aloiscoch@2001:470:69fc:105::65)
2021-05-27 15:14:02 +0200 <zarebski> Does anyone have a strong opinion about the gnuplot package?
2021-05-27 15:14:02 +0200 <rahguzar> dminuoso , something like fzf but with brick but it can be used as a limited library too
2021-05-27 15:14:18 +0200roconnor_roconnor
2021-05-27 15:14:31 +0200roconnor(~roconnor@host-184-164-3-109.dyn.295.ca) (Client Quit)
2021-05-27 15:14:55 +0200 <zarebski> Currently I have to jump over to R for visualisation but would much prefer to stay in haskell, have people found solutions to this?
2021-05-27 15:15:16 +0200fizbin(~fizbin@c-73-33-197-160.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2021-05-27 15:16:10 +0200gehmehgehgehmehgeh_
2021-05-27 15:16:28 +0200gehmehgeh_gehmehgeh
2021-05-27 15:16:51 +0200mceldeen(~igloo@71-33-209-141.hlrn.qwest.net)
2021-05-27 15:17:22 +0200 <dminuoso> rahguzar: I dont think one needs explicit permission from hackage-trustees to upload to hackage.
2021-05-27 15:17:56 +0200zarak(~zarak@101.50.108.132)
2021-05-27 15:17:58 +0200zarakz0k
2021-05-27 15:18:26 +0200 <raehik> dminuoso: I had to request permission when I uploaded a while back. recent-ish anti-spam policy I believe
2021-05-27 15:18:46 +0200 <rahguzar> dminuoso , onedoes, that is what it says in the account registration email. Send them an email to request permission to upload
2021-05-27 15:19:01 +0200pretty_dumm_guy(trottel@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/prettydummguy/x-88029655) (Quit: WeeChat 3.2-dev)
2021-05-27 15:19:38 +0200mceldeen(~igloo@71-33-209-141.hlrn.qwest.net) (Client Quit)
2021-05-27 15:19:48 +0200 <raehik> rahguzar: someone replied to me in a day
2021-05-27 15:19:52 +0200mceldeen(~igloo@71-33-209-141.hlrn.qwest.net)
2021-05-27 15:20:18 +0200 <dminuoso> Ah, indeed.
2021-05-27 15:20:19 +0200 <raehik> On Freenode, there used to be a #hackage-trustees channel or something. perhaps check in #hackage and #hackage-trustees here on libera ?
2021-05-27 15:21:05 +0200 <rahguzar> raehik , I guess I will wait another day and then maybe send a more detailed email
2021-05-27 15:21:48 +0200Mark_(uid14803@user/mark/x-9597255) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2021-05-27 15:22:50 +0200 <rahguzar> raehik and thanks, the #hackage channel has some users and hopefully one of the trustees too so I will ask there
2021-05-27 15:23:01 +0200 <raehik> great! :)
2021-05-27 15:23:12 +0200FunctorPunk(~igloo@c-73-119-137-166.hsd1.ma.comcast.net)
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2021-05-27 15:30:56 +0200 <maerwald> sm: I got ansi escape codes working on windows: https://dpaste.com/3LVXDQBNU
2021-05-27 15:31:58 +0200 <maerwald> shameless rip-off of https://docs.rs/ansi_term/0.12.1/x86_64-pc-windows-msvc/src/ansi_term/windows.rs.html#10-61
2021-05-27 15:33:00 +0200buggy(~buggy@27.6.222.224) (Quit: Lost terminal)
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2021-05-27 15:36:36 +0200 <maerwald> but unicode chars don't seem to work correctly in the console
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2021-05-27 15:36:46 +0200 <geekosaur> chcp 65001
2021-05-27 15:37:44 +0200 <geekosaur> sets the console to utf8 codepage
2021-05-27 15:38:06 +0200haskman(~haskman@106.212.143.206) (Quit: Going to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2021-05-27 15:39:12 +0200Kevin578(~Kevin578@pool-98-110-163-110.bstnma.fios.verizon.net)
2021-05-27 15:39:28 +0200FreeVariable(~FreeVaria@156.25.4.27)
2021-05-27 15:41:17 +0200o1lo01ol1o(~o1lo01ol1@cpe-74-72-187-2.nyc.res.rr.com)
2021-05-27 15:42:19 +0200 <maerwald> https://dev.to/mattn/please-stop-hack-chcp-65001-27db
2021-05-27 15:42:48 +0200roconnor(~roconnor@host-184-164-3-109.dyn.295.ca) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2021-05-27 15:44:16 +0200sajith(~sajith@marsh.hcoop.net) (Changing host)
2021-05-27 15:44:16 +0200sajith(~sajith@user/sajith)
2021-05-27 15:44:55 +0200 <maerwald> +RTS --io-manager=native seems to do somethng
2021-05-27 15:45:08 +0200 <maerwald> but that get stuck in powershell :)
2021-05-27 15:45:46 +0200o1lo01ol1o(~o1lo01ol1@cpe-74-72-187-2.nyc.res.rr.com) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-05-27 15:47:01 +0200space-shell(~space-she@88.98.247.38)
2021-05-27 15:47:03 +0200 <boxscape> maerwald huh judging by that, it looks like the usual, expected state for Japanese windows is to display file paths (at least in cmd) with ¥ instead of \
2021-05-27 15:47:25 +0200FreeVariable(~FreeVaria@156.25.4.27) (Quit: Connection closed)
2021-05-27 15:47:35 +0200 <geekosaur> no, that's reportedly what happens with chcp 65001 instead of the native Japanese codepage
2021-05-27 15:48:05 +0200 <boxscape> no, here he says it uses ¥ *before* calling chcp 65001 https://github.com/stedolan/jq/issues/1121
2021-05-27 15:48:06 +0200 <maerwald> can you have default RTS options for an executable?
2021-05-27 15:48:35 +0200xff0x(~xff0x@2001:1a81:5398:5c00:c47d:75cc:a946:f749) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-05-27 15:48:53 +0200 <maerwald> https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/issues/4471 suggests the correct fix is to just use the native window io manager indeed
2021-05-27 15:49:50 +0200xff0x(~xff0x@2001:1a81:53be:400:e35f:b79:8fb6:e57a)
2021-05-27 15:50:35 +0200 <geekosaur> that gives you a version constraint, I don't think 8.x has the native IO manager
2021-05-27 15:50:38 +0200 <maerwald> https://downloads.haskell.org/~ghc/latest/docs/html/users_guide/runtime_control.html#rts-opts-comp…
2021-05-27 15:50:41 +0200 <maerwald> geekosaur: correct
2021-05-27 15:51:00 +0200 <maerwald> I have a 9.0.1 version constraint anyway due to process and Win32 being ancient on 8.10
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2021-05-27 16:35:36 +0200archbish(~archbish@vps-67389805.vps.ovh.net) ()
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2021-05-27 16:42:36 +0200MidAutumnMoon(~MidAutumn@user/midautumnmoon) (Quit: Quit 啾)
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2021-05-27 16:46:28 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@89.46.62.115)
2021-05-27 16:49:20 +0200 <seeg> does anyone know why I get this error in haddock:
2021-05-27 16:49:20 +0200 <seeg> parse error on input ‘-- | Adding new 'Children' score’
2021-05-27 16:49:20 +0200 <seeg> the code looks like this:
2021-05-27 16:49:20 +0200 <seeg> -- Hence others lists lay around 0 score
2021-05-27 16:49:20 +0200 <seeg> addScorePatch fl (t, (NgramsPatch children' (Patch.Replace old_list new_list))) =
2021-05-27 16:49:21 +0200 <seeg> -- | Adding new 'Children' score
2021-05-27 16:50:25 +0200ubert(~Thunderbi@p200300ecdf259d7974882ed522245916.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-05-27 16:50:25 +0200ubert1ubert
2021-05-27 16:50:25 +0200ikex(~ash@user/ikex)
2021-05-27 16:50:36 +0200lorxiu(~user@240e:3b1:2470:b600:bb:1c1e:4256:2) (ERC (IRC client for Emacs 28.0.50))
2021-05-27 16:50:44 +0200ub(~Thunderbi@p200300ecdf259d7974882ed522245916.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2021-05-27 16:50:45 +0200 <dminuoso> seeg: -- | is a stanza for haddock decoration
2021-05-27 16:50:57 +0200eggplantade(~Eggplanta@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:b043:8b77:c7da:42a0)
2021-05-27 16:51:05 +0200 <dminuoso> It's for stuff like the following (!) binding or constructor
2021-05-27 16:51:35 +0200 <dminuoso> Since syntactically an expression follows, rather than the definition of a constructor or a binding group, a parse error ensues.
2021-05-27 16:51:52 +0200betelgeuse(~john2gb@94-225-47-8.access.telenet.be) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-05-27 16:52:50 +0200 <seeg> ah ok
2021-05-27 16:52:58 +0200 <seeg> so just '-- Adding ...' is enough?
2021-05-27 16:53:03 +0200 <dminuoso> Yes.
2021-05-27 16:53:06 +0200 <seeg> ok
2021-05-27 16:53:13 +0200 <dminuoso> seeg: https://haskell-haddock.readthedocs.io/en/latest/markup.html
2021-05-27 16:53:33 +0200 <dminuoso> Any of this markup triggers haddock. There you can find documentation on when which markup stanza is expected/allowed.
2021-05-27 16:53:49 +0200 <seeg> yes but this is about top-level definitions however this page doesn't say much about definitions inside functions :)
2021-05-27 16:54:14 +0200 <seeg> https://www.haskell.org/haddock/doc/html/ch03s02.html
2021-05-27 16:54:24 +0200 <seeg> but this is for function definition anyways
2021-05-27 16:54:33 +0200 <dminuoso> seeg: the documentation is not very good, admittedly
2021-05-27 16:54:46 +0200 <seeg> ok, i just try to add basic docs to a large codebase
2021-05-27 16:54:57 +0200haskman(~haskman@106.212.143.206) (Quit: Going to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2021-05-27 16:55:03 +0200 <seeg> but thank you, error is gone now
2021-05-27 16:55:20 +0200 <seeg> and for commented out code like:
2021-05-27 16:55:21 +0200 <seeg> -- $ Set.toList
2021-05-27 16:55:27 +0200 <seeg> i guess it should be:
2021-05-27 16:55:27 +0200 <seeg> -- \$ Set.toList
2021-05-27 16:55:39 +0200holy_(~h01y_b4z0@2400:adc1:178:c800:9e45:76a9:57f2:1665)
2021-05-27 16:55:46 +0200 <seeg> btw docs don't say anything about -- $ so i didn't expect this to fail
2021-05-27 16:55:52 +0200 <dminuoso> They do
2021-05-27 16:55:55 +0200 <seeg> ah?
2021-05-27 16:55:57 +0200 <dminuoso> See named chunks
2021-05-27 16:56:07 +0200 <seeg> The following characters have special meanings in documentation comments: \, /, ', `, ", @, <.
2021-05-27 16:56:15 +0200 <seeg> ah ok
2021-05-27 16:56:18 +0200 <dminuoso> Like I said, the documentation is not very good.
2021-05-27 16:56:26 +0200 <dminuoso> You have to read it all to understand
2021-05-27 16:56:39 +0200 <seeg> ok i guess with this codebase i'll learn quite a bit :)
2021-05-27 16:57:24 +0200 <dminuoso> seeg: By the way, feel free to improve the haddock documentation along the way
2021-05-27 16:57:35 +0200 <dminuoso> So that the next unsuspecting user will stumble over the same steps.
2021-05-27 16:58:12 +0200 <seeg> i guess if it were all on one page then my search for '$' would point me here, somehow i missed this page
2021-05-27 16:58:20 +0200ukari(~ukari@user/ukari) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-05-27 16:58:47 +0200 <seeg> well, i guess in similiary to a FAQ, a 'common errors' page could be nice
2021-05-27 16:59:00 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@89.46.62.115) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-05-27 16:59:00 +0200 <seeg> i'll add a stub
2021-05-27 16:59:16 +0200 <dminuoso> seeg: https://github.com/haskell/haddock/tree/ghc-9.2/doc
2021-05-27 16:59:21 +0200ukari(~ukari@user/ukari)
2021-05-27 17:00:19 +0200 <seeg> error: object 2b07607c4562034359f52b42055f8d2af4721ca4: missingNameBeforeEmail: invalid author/committer line - missing space before email
2021-05-27 17:00:19 +0200 <seeg> cloning is problematic already :D
2021-05-27 17:01:01 +0200coot(~coot@37.30.49.19.nat.umts.dynamic.t-mobile.pl) (Quit: coot)
2021-05-27 17:01:13 +0200pricly_yellow(~pricly_ye@static.90.189.158.212.sinor.ru)
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2021-05-27 17:01:36 +0200 <dminuoso> huh
2021-05-27 17:01:57 +0200brandonh(~brandonh@151.38.94.3)
2021-05-27 17:02:07 +0200holy_(~h01y_b4z0@2400:adc1:178:c800:9e45:76a9:57f2:1665) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-05-27 17:02:18 +0200pricly_yellow(~pricly_ye@static.90.189.158.212.sinor.ru)
2021-05-27 17:02:24 +0200holy_(~h01y_b4z0@2400:adc1:178:c800:9e45:76a9:57f2:1665)
2021-05-27 17:03:04 +0200 <dminuoso> You can set `fsck.missingNameBeforeEmail = ignore` is a hotfix I guess? But its awkward, I wonder whether you have an old git version
2021-05-27 17:03:26 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@86.106.121.100)
2021-05-27 17:03:28 +0200 <dminuoso> Clones fine for me
2021-05-27 17:03:52 +0200 <seeg> i use arch, usually all packages are quite fresh
2021-05-27 17:04:22 +0200sedeki(~textual@user/sedeki)
2021-05-27 17:04:57 +0200lortabac(~lortabac@2a01:e0a:541:b8f0:2343:c6dc:9eb2:eac7) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2021-05-27 17:05:19 +0200 <dminuoso> Ah yes, I see the same warnings in `git fsck`
2021-05-27 17:05:30 +0200da39a3ee5e6b4b0d(~textual@2403:6200:8876:ee80:d5a4:34e6:41e0:8f20) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2021-05-27 17:05:56 +0200 <dminuoso> Perhaps those commits should be added to an fsck skiplist
2021-05-27 17:06:01 +0200mceldeen(~igloo@71-33-209-141.hlrn.qwest.net)
2021-05-27 17:06:39 +0200leotaku(~leotaku@046075079231.atmpu0011.highway.a1.net)
2021-05-27 17:07:59 +0200falsifian(~falsifian@cpef81d0f9cb2f3-cmf81d0f9cb2f0.cpe.net.fido.ca) (Quit: leaving)
2021-05-27 17:08:49 +0200ac[m](~aloiscoch@2001:470:69fc:105::65) (Quit: node-irc says goodbye)
2021-05-27 17:08:49 +0200siraben(~siraben@user/siraben) (Quit: node-irc says goodbye)
2021-05-27 17:08:54 +0200MidAutumnMoon(~MidAutumn@user/midautumnmoon) (Quit: Quit 啾)
2021-05-27 17:09:15 +0200ac[m](~aloiscoch@2001:470:69fc:105::65)
2021-05-27 17:09:15 +0200siraben(~siraben@user/siraben)
2021-05-27 17:09:31 +0200MidAutumnMoon(~MidAutumn@user/midautumnmoon)
2021-05-27 17:09:34 +0200mceldeen(~igloo@71-33-209-141.hlrn.qwest.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-05-27 17:10:24 +0200 <dminuoso> seeg: But anyway, you can just configure the above fsck setting in your git config
2021-05-27 17:11:40 +0200favonia(~favonia@user/favonia) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2021-05-27 17:11:42 +0200ddellaco_(~ddellacos@86.106.121.30)
2021-05-27 17:12:26 +0200 <seeg> ok thank you
2021-05-27 17:13:25 +0200favonia(~favonia@user/favonia)
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2021-05-27 17:49:57 +0200sedeki(~textual@user/sedeki) (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
2021-05-27 17:51:29 +0200 <siers> if I grow the heap to 1G more and then I don't need it later, will the process's used memory shrink later?
2021-05-27 17:51:54 +0200hnOsmium0001(uid453710@id-453710.stonehaven.irccloud.com)
2021-05-27 17:51:58 +0200z0k(~z0k@101.50.108.132)
2021-05-27 17:52:12 +0200xkapastel(uid17782@id-17782.tinside.irccloud.com)
2021-05-27 17:52:13 +0200imdoor(~imdoor@balticom-142-78-50.balticom.lv) (Client Quit)
2021-05-27 17:52:23 +0200 <siers> seems so, yes "By default, the heap will start small, and grow and shrink as necessary." https://downloads.haskell.org/~ghc/7.0.1/docs/html/users_guide/runtime-control.html
2021-05-27 17:52:53 +0200wroathe(~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-05-27 17:53:39 +0200 <c_wraith> shrinking can be hit-or-miss
2021-05-27 17:54:03 +0200 <c_wraith> I know recent versions of GHC have done some work in how they arrange things to make it work more often
2021-05-27 17:57:32 +0200 <c_wraith> on the other hand, recent versions of (64-bit linux) ghc will ask the OS to set aside 1TB for their heap at startup anyway
2021-05-27 17:57:47 +0200Jon(jon@dow.land) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-05-27 17:58:10 +0200lisq(~quassel@lis.moe) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-05-27 17:58:21 +0200Jon(jon@dow.land)
2021-05-27 17:58:34 +0200 <c_wraith> top is telling me ghci is using 1024.3 GB of virtual memory
2021-05-27 17:59:05 +0200 <Rembane> Same here. I interpret that as a practical joke.
2021-05-27 17:59:17 +0200lisq(~quassel@lis.moe)
2021-05-27 17:59:33 +0200 <c_wraith> ghc takes advantage of linux overcommit to max effect
2021-05-27 18:00:03 +0200eggplantade(~Eggplanta@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:b043:8b77:c7da:42a0) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-05-27 18:01:01 +0200myShoggoth(~myShoggot@97-120-89-117.ptld.qwest.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-05-27 18:01:17 +0200timsears_(sid501726@id-501726.highgate.irccloud.com)
2021-05-27 18:01:19 +0200myShoggoth(~myShoggot@97-120-89-117.ptld.qwest.net)
2021-05-27 18:02:12 +0200 <c_wraith> I believe it uses that space for independent arenas for each size of small object, so that it never needs to deal with logically fragmenting its memory space with small objects. Large objects are another story.
2021-05-27 18:02:18 +0200Deide(~Deide@wire.desu.ga)
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2021-05-27 18:03:17 +0200ScriptDevil(~ScriptDev@202.164.25.5)
2021-05-27 18:03:18 +0200 <monochrom> resident size is a much better measure
2021-05-27 18:03:23 +0200ScriptDevil(~ScriptDev@202.164.25.5) ()
2021-05-27 18:04:09 +0200wroathe(~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
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2021-05-27 18:07:03 +0200 <boxscape> (Foo, Foo, [Foo]) or (Foo, NonEmpty Foo)? Or is there a better alternative? (Aside from Vec (S (S n)) Foo)
2021-05-27 18:07:33 +0200timsears(uid501726@id-501726.highgate.irccloud.com) ()
2021-05-27 18:07:43 +0200 <boxscape> (to signify a list with at least 2 elements)
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2021-05-27 18:15:35 +0200comradecow(~a0ee4aa7@ircip2.mibbit.com)
2021-05-27 18:16:38 +0200 <comradecow> monochrom: I am not one whom you are thinking and don't be an old idiot to ban in libera network because you assume I am a troll from freenode.
2021-05-27 18:16:50 +0200 <comradecow> even if I am
2021-05-27 18:16:58 +0200 <comradecow> you shouldn't do that
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2021-05-27 18:31:22 +0200lavaman(~lavaman@98.38.249.169)
2021-05-27 18:31:40 +0200 <tomsmeding> boxscape: data List2 a = List2 a a [a], and implement the instances you need
2021-05-27 18:31:45 +0200ukari(~ukari@user/ukari) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-05-27 18:31:56 +0200 <boxscape> hm yeah that makes sense
2021-05-27 18:31:57 +0200 <tomsmeding> e.g. IsList
2021-05-27 18:31:59 +0200 <tomsmeding> :)
2021-05-27 18:32:55 +0200ukari(~ukari@user/ukari)
2021-05-27 18:33:16 +0200blurgy(~blurgy@blurgy.xyz)
2021-05-27 18:34:05 +0200rahguzar(~rahguzar@dynamic-adsl-84-220-228-254.clienti.tiscali.it) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-05-27 18:34:16 +0200Guest944973(~Guest9449@103.78.167.55) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2021-05-27 18:34:21 +0200 <boxscape> ty
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2021-05-27 18:36:16 +0200lavaman(~lavaman@98.38.249.169) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-05-27 18:36:53 +0200EvanR(~evan@user/evanr)
2021-05-27 18:37:22 +0200winter(~winter@2603-6011-f901-9e5b-0000-0000-0000-08cf.res6.spectrum.com)
2021-05-27 18:38:14 +0200fresheyeball(~fresheyeb@c-71-237-105-37.hsd1.co.comcast.net)
2021-05-27 18:38:17 +0200Mark_(uid14803@user/mark/x-9597255)
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2021-05-27 18:41:44 +0200 <EvanR> RIP #haskell on freenode :(
2021-05-27 18:41:49 +0200 <EvanR> invite only
2021-05-27 18:42:10 +0200nschoe(~quassel@178.251.84.79) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
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2021-05-27 18:43:46 +0200 <maerwald> not sure why anyone would still bother with freenode
2021-05-27 18:44:13 +0200Tomurb(~tom@158.194.92.121) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-05-27 18:44:20 +0200pavonia(~user@user/siracusa)
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2021-05-27 18:46:10 +0200wroathe(~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
2021-05-27 18:46:16 +0200 <EvanR> "this channel's name is in violation of the channel naming policy" wtf
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2021-05-27 18:55:58 +0200sheepduck(~sheepduck@2607:fea8:2a60:b700::5d55)
2021-05-27 18:56:03 +0200ac[m]alois[m]
2021-05-27 18:57:09 +0200chocabloc(~chocabloc@223.189.218.148)
2021-05-27 18:57:17 +0200siraben(~siraben@user/siraben) (Quit: node-irc says goodbye)
2021-05-27 18:57:17 +0200alois[m](~aloiscoch@2001:470:69fc:105::65) (Quit: node-irc says goodbye)
2021-05-27 18:57:21 +0200 <chocabloc> hi there
2021-05-27 18:57:25 +0200 <chocabloc> im new to haskell
2021-05-27 18:58:10 +0200 <chocabloc> what are the best resources to learn it
2021-05-27 18:58:17 +0200immibis(~immibis@62.156.144.218) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-05-27 18:58:40 +0200immibis(~immibis@62.156.144.218)
2021-05-27 18:59:09 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-05-27 18:59:35 +0200 <edwardk> EvanR: there's a tiny ##haskell, but its mostly a refuge for folks til matrix support turns on here
2021-05-27 18:59:52 +0200 <xwx> [] is the type constructor for lists and has kind * -> *, how can i express the type constructor for a list of lists, which also has kind * -> *?
2021-05-27 19:00:04 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@86.106.121.27)
2021-05-27 19:00:14 +0200 <EvanR> thanks everyone for doing this move and not really lingers on the old network
2021-05-27 19:00:20 +0200 <EvanR> lingering
2021-05-27 19:00:20 +0200 <xwx> at the moment i'm using newtype LL a = LL {unLL :: [[a]]}
2021-05-27 19:00:25 +0200eggplantade(~Eggplanta@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:b043:8b77:c7da:42a0)
2021-05-27 19:00:36 +0200 <xwx> and using LL as the type constructor, is there a nicer way?
2021-05-27 19:01:04 +0200werneta(~werneta@70-142-214-115.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net)
2021-05-27 19:01:29 +0200 <xwx> chocabloc: http://learnyouahaskell.com/ is a good resource in my opinion, although not everyone would agree
2021-05-27 19:01:30 +0200siraben(~siraben@user/siraben)
2021-05-27 19:01:40 +0200ac[m](~aloiscoch@2001:470:69fc:105::65)
2021-05-27 19:01:57 +0200wroathe(~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
2021-05-27 19:02:18 +0200econo(uid147250@user/econo)
2021-05-27 19:03:24 +0200 <EvanR> Though it might be a bit old there's still https://www.haskell.org/tutorial/
2021-05-27 19:03:35 +0200 <EvanR> I used it
2021-05-27 19:03:39 +0200ddellaco_(~ddellacos@89.46.62.122) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-05-27 19:04:25 +0200 <chocabloc> i see, thanks
2021-05-27 19:04:49 +0200 <chocabloc> what would you say about "The Simple Haskell Handbook"?
2021-05-27 19:05:06 +0200eggplantade(~Eggplanta@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:b043:8b77:c7da:42a0) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-05-27 19:05:16 +0200xacktm(xacktm@user/xacktm) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-05-27 19:05:24 +0200haskman(~haskman@106.212.143.206) (Quit: Going to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2021-05-27 19:05:47 +0200 <sclv> chocabloc: there was just a thread on reddit about this! https://www.reddit.com/r/haskell/comments/nlpxjw/anyone_read_the_simple_haskell_handbook_and_can/
2021-05-27 19:06:04 +0200 <sclv> also there's a fairly big list of books and docs you can explore on the main website
2021-05-27 19:06:05 +0200 <sclv> @where docs
2021-05-27 19:06:05 +0200 <lambdabot> https://www.haskell.org/documentation/
2021-05-27 19:06:09 +0200 <lbseale> chocabloc: This youtube video series really helped me learn https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vgu82wiiZ90&list=PLe7Ei6viL6jGp1Rfu0dil1JH1SHk9bgDV
2021-05-27 19:06:46 +0200wroathe(~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-05-27 19:06:58 +0200 <chocabloc> thanks, thats very helpful
2021-05-27 19:07:08 +0200holy_(~h01y_b4z0@2400:adc1:178:c800:9e45:76a9:57f2:1665) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-05-27 19:07:17 +0200ac[m]alois
2021-05-27 19:07:28 +0200sifu(~marek@219.244.200.146.dyn.plus.net)
2021-05-27 19:07:31 +0200rahguzar(~rahguzar@dynamic-adsl-84-220-228-254.clienti.tiscali.it)
2021-05-27 19:07:43 +0200 <lbseale> also this video was nice to just get started writing code: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=02_H3LjqMr8
2021-05-27 19:08:21 +0200 <ddellacosta> are we talking about what good Haskell learning resources are? I gotta call out Graham Hutton's Programnming in Haskell, definitely worth checking out http://www.cs.nott.ac.uk/~pszgmh/pih.html
2021-05-27 19:08:32 +0200 <ddellacosta> I think that's listed in the haskell reddit actually
2021-05-27 19:09:55 +0200qbt(~edun@user/edun)
2021-05-27 19:10:06 +0200 <zarebski> graham hutton also has a series of video lectures on youtube for haskell which look good
2021-05-27 19:10:24 +0200 <zarebski> https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBDp7ydYTHi1dh4Gnf3VTPA
2021-05-27 19:11:54 +0200mojvei(~mojvei@user/mojvei)
2021-05-27 19:11:58 +0200mojvei(~mojvei@user/mojvei) (WeeChat 2.3)
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2021-05-27 19:16:06 +0200xacktm(xacktm@user/xacktm)
2021-05-27 19:20:20 +0200Lycurgus(~juan@cpe-45-46-140-49.buffalo.res.rr.com)
2021-05-27 19:20:20 +0200myShoggoth(~myShoggot@97-120-89-117.ptld.qwest.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-05-27 19:20:29 +0200haskman(~haskman@106.212.143.206)
2021-05-27 19:21:51 +0200brandonh(~brandonh@151.38.94.3) (Quit: brandonh)
2021-05-27 19:22:52 +0200 <tomsmeding> xwx: you can't do much better than your LL
2021-05-27 19:23:56 +0200 <tomsmeding> to remove the requirement for a separate newtype, you'd need a kind of "type-level lambda", looking something like "\a -> [[a]]", but Haskell doesn't currently support that
2021-05-27 19:24:27 +0200MasterControl(~Master@238.140.4.85.dynamic.wline.res.cust.swisscom.ch) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
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2021-05-27 19:25:45 +0200 <xwx> tomsmeding: ah cool, thanks
2021-05-27 19:26:01 +0200eggplantade(~Eggplanta@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:b043:8b77:c7da:42a0)
2021-05-27 19:27:09 +0200 <tomsmeding> xwx: what do you need it for?
2021-05-27 19:27:52 +0200tzh(~tzh@c-24-21-73-154.hsd1.wa.comcast.net)
2021-05-27 19:28:23 +0200MasterControl(~Master@238.140.4.85.dynamic.wline.res.cust.swisscom.ch)
2021-05-27 19:30:23 +0200ub(~Thunderbi@p200300ecdf259d7974882ed522245916.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2021-05-27 19:30:55 +0200riku(~riku@136.37.120.69)
2021-05-27 19:30:56 +0200 <maerwald> anyone has experience with the retry package and what's a good retry policy to e.g. remove files on windows?
2021-05-27 19:31:10 +0200y04nn(~y04nn@185.204.1.208)
2021-05-27 19:31:46 +0200chocabloc(~chocabloc@223.189.218.148) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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2021-05-27 19:32:52 +0200 <maerwald> https://www.sqlite.org/src/info/89f1848d7f seems to be miliseconds here
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2021-05-27 19:37:11 +0200python476(~user@88.160.31.174)
2021-05-27 19:37:32 +0200k-os(~user@p200300d63f13f400065e695575674907.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2021-05-27 19:37:45 +0200 <python476> who else here is in group theory ? (and combinatorics oriented programming)
2021-05-27 19:38:13 +0200 <python476> I barely know about it but I have a hunch that it's both pleasurable and safe for very generic programs
2021-05-27 19:39:25 +0200k-os(~user@p200300d63f13f400065e695575674907.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (ERC (IRC client for Emacs 28.0.50))
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2021-05-27 19:46:42 +0200dr_bot(~dr_bot@cpe-24-209-62-187.neo.res.rr.com)
2021-05-27 19:46:51 +0200 <rahguzar> python476 :It is certainly very pleasurable, but I don't know much use it finds in programming outside some very specialized areas like cryptography. Semigroups and monoids seem much more common
2021-05-27 19:48:16 +0200haskman(~haskman@106.212.143.206)
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2021-05-27 20:07:08 +0200Zemyla(~ec2-user@ec2-54-196-11-2.compute-1.amazonaws.com)
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2021-05-27 20:10:55 +0200comradecow(~a0ee4aa7@ircip2.mibbit.com) ()
2021-05-27 20:11:34 +0200bfrk(~Thunderbi@200116b845a103000156427e7b23f5f6.dip.versatel-1u1.de) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-05-27 20:13:33 +0200sheepduck(~sheepduck@2607:fea8:2a60:b700::5d55)
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2021-05-27 20:14:15 +0200gensyst(gensyst@user/gensyst)
2021-05-27 20:14:27 +0200hueso(~root@152.170.216.40)
2021-05-27 20:15:13 +0200 <gensyst> Is Double substantially faster/slower than Rational?
2021-05-27 20:16:51 +0200 <Zemyla> Double is hardware accelerated.
2021-05-27 20:16:59 +0200 <geekosaur> generally faster since Rational is based on Integer / bignums, whereas Double ius machine numbers
2021-05-27 20:16:59 +0200 <Zemyla> Also, it's not arbitrary precision.
2021-05-27 20:17:14 +0200holy_bazooka(~h01y_b4z0@2400:adc1:178:c800:9e45:76a9:57f2:1665)
2021-05-27 20:17:43 +0200 <Zemyla> The only operation for which Rational is faster than Double is toRational.
2021-05-27 20:17:54 +0200 <gensyst> :D
2021-05-27 20:17:59 +0200 <gensyst> thanks
2021-05-27 20:18:20 +0200pe200012_(~pe200012@119.131.208.84)
2021-05-27 20:18:46 +0200pe200012(~pe200012@119.131.208.84) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-05-27 20:19:22 +0200 <cjay> Hmm, I wonder if there is some corner cases where Rational is faster. Rational division is just two multiplications, maybe that's faster than one Double division?
2021-05-27 20:20:14 +0200 <cjay> recip certainly is faster ^^
2021-05-27 20:20:49 +0200autophagy(~mika@user/autophagy) (Quit: WeeChat 3.1)
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2021-05-27 20:23:43 +0200 <python476> rahguzar: i've read that 50s CS researchers were deep into monoidal computation
2021-05-27 20:24:00 +0200 <python476> also I remember some papers about group theory regarding grammars
2021-05-27 20:24:03 +0200autophagy(~mika@user/autophagy)
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2021-05-27 20:27:14 +0200koala_man(~vidar@157.146.251.23.bc.googleusercontent.com)
2021-05-27 20:27:20 +0200siraben(~siraben@user/siraben)
2021-05-27 20:27:36 +0200ac(~aloiscoch@2001:470:69fc:105::65)
2021-05-27 20:27:46 +0200 <Zemyla> cjay: recip isn't necessarily faster, especially if it's unboxed or the Rational is negative.
2021-05-27 20:28:02 +0200 <bbhoss> Anyone have any experience writing custom Servant serializers/deserializers? I am using GCP PubSub to post messages to my servant endpoint. It's posting JSON but that JSON is just a wrapper around the message data which is protobuf in this case. I'd like to maintain the way servant does content negotiation etc but also embed the sum type of the various PB messages in the API itself. Is this possible?
2021-05-27 20:29:08 +0200 <bbhoss> It seems like this: https://hackage.haskell.org/package/servant-0.18.2/docs/Servant-API-ContentTypes.html could be useful but it also seems like the only way to negotiate is via the accept/content type header, which will be json still. Or could I implement a custom MimeUnrender instance that looks at the message itself?
2021-05-27 20:31:56 +0200 <xerox> what is a possible approachable strategy to come up with an injective T -> Int for a substantially complex type T that doesn't contain stuff that is impossible to hash in such a manner?
2021-05-27 20:32:42 +0200vicentius(~vicentius@user/vicentius) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-05-27 20:34:13 +0200bfrk(~Thunderbi@200116b845a103000156427e7b23f5f6.dip.versatel-1u1.de)
2021-05-27 20:34:56 +0200Lycurgus(~juan@cpe-45-46-140-49.buffalo.res.rr.com) (Quit: Exeunt)
2021-05-27 20:36:46 +0200 <Athas> xerox: derive Show and hash the string.
2021-05-27 20:37:15 +0200 <Athas> Oh, you want the inverse as well?
2021-05-27 20:37:56 +0200holy_bazooka(~h01y_b4z0@2400:adc1:178:c800:9e45:76a9:57f2:1665) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-05-27 20:38:27 +0200slac36573(~slack1256@181.203.105.152)
2021-05-27 20:38:47 +0200 <xerox> no
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2021-05-27 20:41:15 +0200 <altern> anyone can help with the SO question? https://stackoverflow.com/questions/67728103/how-to-list-all-commits-with-gitlib
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2021-05-27 20:51:18 +0200 <sm> maerwald: nice! So the trick was to eNABLE_VIRTUAL_TERMINAL_PROCESSING ?
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2021-05-27 21:07:09 +0200thblt(~thblt@k9.thb.lt)
2021-05-27 21:07:10 +0200thblt(~thblt@k9.thb.lt) ()
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2021-05-27 21:11:08 +0200glguy-o glguy
2021-05-27 21:11:38 +0200ixlun(~user@217.75.9.51.dyn.plus.net)
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2021-05-27 21:11:57 +0200 <boxscape> % :instances forall a . Show a => [a]
2021-05-27 21:11:57 +0200 <yahb> boxscape:
2021-05-27 21:11:58 +0200 <boxscape> :(
2021-05-27 21:12:21 +0200 <maerwald> sm: yeah
2021-05-27 21:12:24 +0200 <boxscape> wonder how hard it'd be to implement that
2021-05-27 21:13:24 +0200 <ixlun> Hi all, I've got a function 'x :: IO (Either String Obj)'. Is there a way I can mix the IO with Either so that if one of the intermediate steps in the computation yields a Left the whole thing aborts automatically?
2021-05-27 21:13:42 +0200 <boxscape> ixlun have you ever heard of Monad Transformers
2021-05-27 21:14:23 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@86.106.121.27) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2021-05-27 21:14:32 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@86.106.121.27)
2021-05-27 21:14:34 +0200favonia(~favonia@user/favonia) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-05-27 21:14:34 +0200 <ixlun> boxscape: I've heard of them yeah, but I've never used them!
2021-05-27 21:14:44 +0200ryantrinkle(~ryan@static-108-30-103-121.nycmny.fios.verizon.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-05-27 21:14:48 +0200 <boxscape> ixlun this seems like a perfect opportunity to get to know them
2021-05-27 21:15:12 +0200Xe(~cadey@user/xe) (Quit: WeeChat 3.1)
2021-05-27 21:15:15 +0200 <boxscape> specifically, EitherT String IO Obj I believe
2021-05-27 21:15:22 +0200 <boxscape> @unmtl EitherT String IO Obj
2021-05-27 21:15:22 +0200 <lambdabot> EitherT String IO Obj
2021-05-27 21:15:31 +0200Xe(~cadey@user/xe)
2021-05-27 21:15:34 +0200 <boxscape> er no, not at all
2021-05-27 21:15:38 +0200 <boxscape> @unmtl ExcepT String IO Obj
2021-05-27 21:15:38 +0200 <lambdabot> ExcepT String IO Obj
2021-05-27 21:15:41 +0200 <boxscape> @unmtl ExceptT String IO Obj
2021-05-27 21:15:41 +0200 <lambdabot> IO (Either String Obj)
2021-05-27 21:15:57 +0200 <boxscape> ixlun the Monad transformer for Either is called Except
2021-05-27 21:16:00 +0200favonia(~favonia@user/favonia)
2021-05-27 21:16:02 +0200 <boxscape> all the others have their usual names
2021-05-27 21:16:34 +0200zeenk(~zeenk@2a02:2f04:a310:b600:b098:bf18:df4d:4c41)
2021-05-27 21:16:46 +0200sifu(~marek@219.244.200.146.dyn.plus.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-05-27 21:17:11 +0200 <ixlun> Right, I'll hoogle ExceptT now and take a look
2021-05-27 21:17:14 +0200 <boxscape> ixlun you can use it with the transformers library, or with the mtl library, which defines a few extra classes to make it more convenient
2021-05-27 21:17:30 +0200 <boxscape> (but they both use the type defined in transformers, and both libraries ship with ghc)
2021-05-27 21:17:46 +0200 <ixlun> I'm hoping this will reduce nesting that I've got!
2021-05-27 21:17:50 +0200riku(~riku@136.37.120.69) ()
2021-05-27 21:18:10 +0200 <boxscape> it probably will
2021-05-27 21:18:50 +0200 <ixlun> Great, I'll do some reading and give it a go! Thanks for the help boxscape
2021-05-27 21:19:00 +0200 <boxscape> sure, np
2021-05-27 21:20:16 +0200safinaskar(~user@109.252.90.89)
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2021-05-27 21:21:36 +0200dunham(~dunham@97-113-35-16.tukw.qwest.net)
2021-05-27 21:22:05 +0200 <safinaskar> hi
2021-05-27 21:22:08 +0200 <boxscape> hey
2021-05-27 21:22:51 +0200 <safinaskar> consider this situation: hackage package A depends on B and C, B depends on D 0.1, C depends on D 0.2. as well as I understand this makes A uninstallable, right?
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2021-05-27 21:24:24 +0200 <davean> Yes, it makes A uninstallable
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2021-05-27 21:30:02 +0200 <ixlun> boxscape: okay first question I've got: One of the functions I've got only returns a Maybe. Can I convert that to an Either by providing an error message for the Nothing case so it works in ExceptT?
2021-05-27 21:30:17 +0200Guest11(~textual@146.212.240.255)
2021-05-27 21:30:18 +0200 <ixlun> doing a search for 'Maybe a -> Either b a' on hoogle didn't yield anything.
2021-05-27 21:30:59 +0200 <geekosaur> :t maybe (Left "oops") Right
2021-05-27 21:31:00 +0200 <lambdabot> Maybe b -> Either [Char] b
2021-05-27 21:31:44 +0200wroathe(~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
2021-05-27 21:32:56 +0200pretty_dumm_guy(trottel@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/prettydummguy/x-88029655)
2021-05-27 21:33:01 +0200 <boxscape> ixlun what geekosaur said. Btw here's a fairly minimal example in mtl style:
2021-05-27 21:33:02 +0200 <boxscape> % f :: (MonadError String m, MonadIO m) => Int -> m (); f x = do {when (x < 5) (throwError "too small"); when (x > 10) (throwError "too big"); liftIO $ print "just right"}
2021-05-27 21:33:02 +0200 <yahb> boxscape:
2021-05-27 21:33:11 +0200 <boxscape> % runExceptT (f 13)
2021-05-27 21:33:11 +0200 <yahb> boxscape: Left "too big"
2021-05-27 21:33:11 +0200 <python476> prolog is a bit of a partition function over F[2]
2021-05-27 21:33:11 +0200tenniscp25(~tenniscp2@134.196.209.118) (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
2021-05-27 21:33:16 +0200 <ski> @type fromMaybe (error "oops")
2021-05-27 21:33:17 +0200 <lambdabot> Maybe a -> a
2021-05-27 21:33:48 +0200 <boxscape> (in the style of my example it would be `maybe (throwError "oops") pure`)
2021-05-27 21:35:07 +0200 <ski> python476 : huh ?
2021-05-27 21:35:32 +0200raehik(~raehik@cpc95906-rdng25-2-0-cust156.15-3.cable.virginm.net)
2021-05-27 21:36:53 +0200 <siers> c_wraith, I am pretty sure the virtual memory doesn't count.
2021-05-27 21:36:54 +0200 <ixlun> Right, think I've got it. Thanks geekosaur
2021-05-27 21:37:22 +0200 <ixlun> Right, I see what you're saying about mtl boxscape, it gives you more functions to play with
2021-05-27 21:37:31 +0200ku(~ku@2601:280:c780:7ea0:c5a6:e466:b3e6:a4ee)
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2021-05-27 21:38:27 +0200 <boxscape> ixlun yeah it also lets you decide later on which actual implementation you want to use for a particular constraint, so people use it for example to have implementations for testing and production
2021-05-27 21:38:40 +0200 <boxscape> s/to have/to have different/
2021-05-27 21:38:47 +0200 <c_wraith> siers: virt tells you how much the program asked the OS for, but that doesn't tell you a thing about how much the OS actually has provided to it.
2021-05-27 21:38:56 +0200betelgeuse(~john2gb@94-225-47-8.access.telenet.be)
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2021-05-27 21:40:45 +0200 <python476> sorry i'm thinking out loud
2021-05-27 21:41:55 +0200 <python476> partion of n is the set of tuples < n such that sum(tuples) == n
2021-05-27 21:42:26 +0200 <python476> prolog generate all subtrees and(subtrees) holds
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2021-05-27 21:47:59 +0200 <safinaskar> davean: thanks
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2021-05-27 22:23:10 +0200 <xerox> ever seen this? https://pastebin.com/raw/x4eEQqmC only happens once in a while during cabal build
2021-05-27 22:23:44 +0200eggplantade(~Eggplanta@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:b043:8b77:c7da:42a0)
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2021-05-27 22:27:30 +0200caubert(~caubert@136.244.111.235) (Quit: WeeChat 3.1)
2021-05-27 22:27:52 +0200 <tanner_> Beginner question, ghci say ([1,2] + 1) has type (Num a, Num [a]) => [a]. But ([1,2] + 1) can
2021-05-27 22:28:06 +0200 <tanner_> *can't be evaluated.
2021-05-27 22:28:48 +0200 <pavonia> Because there's no instance for Num [a] in scope
2021-05-27 22:29:23 +0200dhouthoo(~dhouthoo@178-117-36-167.access.telenet.be) (Quit: WeeChat 3.1)
2021-05-27 22:29:27 +0200 <mniip> it could be evaluated if an instance became availabe
2021-05-27 22:29:48 +0200caubert(~caubert@136.244.111.235)
2021-05-27 22:30:03 +0200reumeth(~reumeth@2001:4652:9745:0:72c9:4eff:fea7:32ab) (Quit: reumeth)
2021-05-27 22:30:19 +0200 <tanner_> But (+) has type Num a => a -> a -> a, I would think regardless of whether an instance for Num [a] existed it would still refuse to evaluate on account of a and [a] being different types
2021-05-27 22:30:21 +0200danso(~danso@23-233-111-52.cpe.pppoe.ca) (Quit: WeeChat 3.1)
2021-05-27 22:30:45 +0200 <tdammers> yes, except that integer literals are polymorphic
2021-05-27 22:30:47 +0200 <tdammers> :t 1
2021-05-27 22:30:47 +0200 <boxscape> % :t 1
2021-05-27 22:30:47 +0200 <yahb> boxscape: Num p => p
2021-05-27 22:30:48 +0200 <lambdabot> Num p => p
2021-05-27 22:30:58 +0200 <boxscape> % instance Num a => Num [a] where (+) = zipWith (+); fromInteger = repeat . fromInteger
2021-05-27 22:30:58 +0200 <yahb> boxscape: ; <interactive>:53:10: warning: [-Wmissing-methods]; * No explicit implementation for; `*', `abs', `signum', and (either `negate' or `-'); * In the instance declaration for `Num [a]'
2021-05-27 22:31:03 +0200 <boxscape> % ([1,2] + 1)
2021-05-27 22:31:03 +0200 <yahb> boxscape: [2,3]
2021-05-27 22:31:21 +0200 <tdammers> there are two Num constraints inferred here
2021-05-27 22:32:23 +0200nsilv-phone-1(~nsilv-pho@host-82-50-119-12.retail.telecomitalia.it)
2021-05-27 22:32:35 +0200 <tdammers> :t (+)
2021-05-27 22:32:36 +0200 <lambdabot> Num a => a -> a -> a
2021-05-27 22:32:52 +0200 <tdammers> right? so that means that [1, 2] must be of type a, and 1 must also be of type a
2021-05-27 22:33:07 +0200 <boxscape> tanner_ note that `5.6 + 1` works, as well, even though one might assume that 5.6 is Double and 1 is an Integer
2021-05-27 22:33:28 +0200 <boxscape> in practice, these both end up being Double in this case
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2021-05-27 22:34:58 +0200nsilv-phone(~nsilv-pho@37.160.61.54) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-05-27 22:35:01 +0200 <tanner_> Ok... so 1 could be inferred as the type (Num a, Num [a]) => [a] and then (+) 1 [1,2] makes sense. Is that correct?
2021-05-27 22:35:44 +0200 <boxscape> tanner_ Yes. You're right that `x + y` wouldn't work if `x :: a` and ``y :: [a]`. But in the expression `([1,2] + 1)`, both argument have type (Num a, Num [a]) => [a]
2021-05-27 22:36:07 +0200 <tanner_> But this could (and would) only happen if an instance of Num [a] was in scope
2021-05-27 22:36:46 +0200 <boxscape> well, GHC infers that type anyway, and then afterwards determines that no such instance is available
2021-05-27 22:37:12 +0200 <boxscape> which is why :t works
2021-05-27 22:37:13 +0200onion_(~zzz@user/yin)
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2021-05-27 22:38:18 +0200 <tanner_> Ok, so GHC infers the type no matter what, because it is a valid type. The error only comes when it trys to evaluate such an expression, discovers there are no such instances in scope, and then gives and error
2021-05-27 22:38:26 +0200 <boxscape> right
2021-05-27 22:38:46 +0200 <tanner_> Ok, wow, thats actually really cool, thanks
2021-05-27 22:38:49 +0200ixlun`(~user@217.75.9.51.dyn.plus.net)
2021-05-27 22:38:54 +0200 <boxscape> yeah :)
2021-05-27 22:40:32 +0200ixlun(~user@217.75.9.51.dyn.plus.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-05-27 22:41:16 +0200 <ski> @let instance Num a => Num [a] where (+) = zipWith (+); (-) = zipWith (-); (*) = zipWith (*); negate = map negate; abs = map abs; signum = map signum; fromInteger = repeat . fromInteger
2021-05-27 22:41:18 +0200 <lambdabot> Defined.
2021-05-27 22:41:37 +0200 <ski> > [1,2] + 1 -- tanner_, here you go
2021-05-27 22:41:39 +0200 <lambdabot> [2,3]
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2021-05-27 22:44:02 +0200 <boxscape> with us saying "has an instance of" instead of "is a member of" is does seem like maybe "trait" is a better name than "type class"
2021-05-27 22:45:24 +0200 <boxscape> or.. "interface" like Idris has, I guess, as long as you don't think too hard about OOP
2021-05-27 22:45:43 +0200spirgel_(spirgel@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/spirgel)
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2021-05-27 22:46:17 +0200hiptobecubic(~john@c-73-55-99-95.hsd1.fl.comcast.net)
2021-05-27 22:46:55 +0200 <tanner_> thank you ski
2021-05-27 22:47:04 +0200ryantrinkle(~ryan@static-108-30-103-121.nycmny.fios.verizon.net) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-05-27 22:47:28 +0200 <tanner_> I need to make a "cool stuff" section of my notes apparently!
2021-05-27 22:47:58 +0200 <boxscape> (or, how about this, we have "type constructor", so the obvious name is "constraint constructor")
2021-05-27 22:48:23 +0200 <boxscape> ooh the keyword could be lowercase constraint, too
2021-05-27 22:48:25 +0200wroathe(~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
2021-05-27 22:48:36 +0200 <boxscape> maybe 30 years too late for that now, though :)
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2021-05-27 22:52:17 +0200eL_Bart0(eL_Bart0@dietunichtguten.org)
2021-05-27 22:53:15 +0200 <ski> (hm .. i think i probably wouldn't say "has an instance of")
2021-05-27 22:53:47 +0200ski. o O ( "constructor classes" )
2021-05-27 22:53:52 +0200dustingetz(~textual@pool-173-49-123-198.phlapa.fios.verizon.net)
2021-05-27 22:54:01 +0200 <boxscape> what would you say in natural language to indicate that an instance Num a => Num [a] exists
2021-05-27 22:54:28 +0200 <boxscape> (with or without the Num a constraint is fine)
2021-05-27 22:55:08 +0200 <ski> `[a]' is an instance of `Num' (provided `a' is)
2021-05-27 22:55:19 +0200 <boxscape> okay, fair
2021-05-27 22:55:24 +0200 <ski> `[a]' has a `Num' instance (provided `a' does)
2021-05-27 22:55:40 +0200MasterControl(~Master@238.140.4.85.dynamic.wline.res.cust.swisscom.ch) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-05-27 22:55:42 +0200 <boxscape> ok
2021-05-27 22:55:56 +0200MasterControl(~Master@238.140.4.85.dynamic.wline.res.cust.swisscom.ch)
2021-05-27 22:56:06 +0200 <ski> having an instance `Num a' implies an instance `Num [a]'
2021-05-27 22:57:17 +0200 <ski> (can't recall whether i've seen others say "has an instance of". it just sounded slightly off to me, for whatever reason)
2021-05-27 22:57:32 +0200sm[m](~sm@plaintextaccounting/sm)
2021-05-27 22:57:34 +0200 <boxscape> in retrospect your variants do sound better to me, as well
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2021-05-27 23:03:16 +0200MidAutumnMoon(~MidAutumn@user/midautumnmoon) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
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2021-05-27 23:25:41 +0200safinaskar(~user@109.252.90.89)
2021-05-27 23:25:52 +0200 <safinaskar> what is current state of cabal-doctest integration?
2021-05-27 23:26:08 +0200 <safinaskar> i see command v1-doctest, but not v2-doctest. why?
2021-05-27 23:26:33 +0200 <safinaskar> my cabal version is 3.4.0.0
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2021-05-27 23:30:32 +0200autophagy(~mika@user/autophagy) (Quit: WeeChat 3.1)
2021-05-27 23:32:16 +0200 <boxscape> ski if we didn't have type families, how would you feel about calling `Maybe` a "type family"?
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2021-05-27 23:33:19 +0200 <geekosaur> type schema, maybe
2021-05-27 23:33:25 +0200 <boxscape> hm
2021-05-27 23:33:48 +0200 <boxscape> I can see that
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2021-05-27 23:34:44 +0200 <monochrom> I would just state the kind.
2021-05-27 23:34:46 +0200sm2n(~sm2n@user/sm2n)
2021-05-27 23:36:50 +0200wagle(~wagle@quassel.wagle.io)
2021-05-27 23:36:59 +0200MasterControl(~Master@238.140.4.85.dynamic.wline.res.cust.swisscom.ch)
2021-05-27 23:37:25 +0200 <monochrom> You would really have to give me a very limited language, such that the only kinds are * and *^n -> *, such as Java and C++, to convince me that it is useful to emphasize a terminology that highlights the dichotomy between * and *^n -> *
2021-05-27 23:38:26 +0200nckx(~nckx@tobias.gr) (Quit: Updating my Guix System — https://guix.gnu.org)
2021-05-27 23:38:35 +0200 <monochrom> Along the same line, you would really have to inflict absolutely barebon untyped lambda calculus on me, in which there are only vars and lambda, to convince me that the word "function" is informative.
2021-05-27 23:38:45 +0200 <boxscape> that's fair
2021-05-27 23:39:11 +0200dut(~dut@user/dut)
2021-05-27 23:39:11 +0200 <ski> "schema" is already used to describe open type expressions
2021-05-27 23:39:14 +0200danidiaz(~ESDPC@static-184-112-86-188.ipcom.comunitel.net) ()
2021-05-27 23:39:37 +0200 <monochrom> In a language in which "X->Y" and "X->Y->(Z->X)->K" are fundamentally unrelated, sentences like "it is a function" "it is not a function" are utterly useless.
2021-05-27 23:41:18 +0200MidAutumnMoon(~MidAutumn@user/midautumnmoon)
2021-05-27 23:41:45 +0200nckx(~nckx@tobias.gr)
2021-05-27 23:42:23 +0200 <ski> it seems to me "function" would not really be too informative there, if the only things variables can be bound to, are functions ..
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2021-05-27 23:43:32 +0200Aran(~Aran@port-92-194-80-170.dynamic.as20676.net)
2021-05-27 23:43:49 +0200wagle(~wagle@quassel.wagle.io) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2021-05-27 23:43:50 +0200 <ski> i tend to view "function" as abbreviation of "function with domain such-and-such and codomain such-and-such". the term is comparable to e.g. "conjunction" or "implication"
2021-05-27 23:43:59 +0200 <safinaskar> so, what is today recommended way to use cabal and doctest together??
2021-05-27 23:45:34 +0200otto_s(~user@p5de2f722.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
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2021-05-27 23:49:23 +0200 <monochrom> Of course, I lied. In front of my students, I still say "polymorphic type" for Maybe, I just did in today's lecture. This is because in my course I don't introduce kinds and I won't get to monad transformers. So in my course I really only have * and morally *^n -> *
2021-05-27 23:50:51 +0200pfurla(~pfurla@ool-182ed2e2.dyn.optonline.net)
2021-05-27 23:51:34 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@89.46.62.25)
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2021-05-27 23:56:39 +0200 <monochrom> You may like to know that the word "schema" can carry connotation about how instantiation is achieved, not just that it is allowed.
2021-05-27 23:57:37 +0200 <monochrom> So for example suppose you try to state induction in first-order logic. It's first-order so you can't start with "for all predicate p".
2021-05-27 23:57:48 +0200wagle(~wagle@quassel.wagle.io)
2021-05-27 23:58:49 +0200 <monochrom> The workaround is you move that forall to the meta level. You say: for every predicate p, this sentence is an axiom: "p(0) and (forall n. p(n) implies p(n+1)) implies (forall n. p(n))"
2021-05-27 23:59:34 +0200tanner_(~tanner@74.221.100.239) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-05-27 23:59:36 +0200 <monochrom> In addition you actually don't want to commit to the stance "I have infinitely many axioms". Every proof should use only finitely many axioms.