| 2024-09-22 00:05:30 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <yoyos12138> I have a question.Did the haskell had Wayland composer. |
| 2024-09-22 00:18:24 +0200 | <geekosaur> | not yet |
| 2024-09-22 00:21:18 +0200 | <L29Ah> | waymonad is |
| 2024-09-22 00:21:30 +0200 | <L29Ah> | but xmonad is much better |
| 2024-09-22 00:24:09 +0200 | <geekosaur> | https://discourse.haskell.org/t/xmonad-for-wayland-call-for-help/7812 https://discourse.haskell.org/t/haskell-wlroots-bindings/8426 |
| 2024-09-22 00:25:46 +0200 | L29Ah | just waits until wayland bitrots away |
| 2024-09-22 00:27:03 +0200 | <geekosaur> | sadly, I think that's not going to happen, at least not entirely. X11 has actual problems, and any replacement that fixes them is going to look more like Wayland than like the X Window System |
| 2024-09-22 00:27:24 +0200 | <geekosaur> | including any attempt to fix them within X |
| 2024-09-22 00:27:36 +0200 | <geekosaur> | it needs to be completely re-architected |
| 2024-09-22 00:38:59 +0200 | <L29Ah> | what problems? is there a good article i could read? |
| 2024-09-22 00:39:34 +0200 | <L29Ah> | i'm not convinced wayland architecture is stellar either, with its callback buffer requesting stuff |
| 2024-09-22 00:40:32 +0200 | <L29Ah> | and it doesn't matter much what interface you use if you mostly say "place my opengl/vulkan toybox here and get away", i think |
| 2024-09-22 00:41:28 +0200 | <geekosaur> | the fundamental problem is that X is fundamentally designed with a Screen architecture which (a) can have its own resolution (b) _always_ has its own video memory, which cannot be shared with other Screens |
| 2024-09-22 00:43:30 +0200 | <geekosaur> | you can work around the video memory issue with the Xinerama hack, but now you can't have different resolutions on each "screen" because that would mean different places on the root window having different resolutions, which X doesn't support (and in particular can't be wedged into X video drivers) |
| 2024-09-22 00:43:37 +0200 | <L29Ah> | the Screen problem was mostly kludged away by xinerama-xrandr, i don't see how it's relevant today |
| 2024-09-22 00:44:04 +0200 | <geekosaur> | I see it right now |
| 2024-09-22 00:44:27 +0200 | <L29Ah> | and you can have different resolutions on each "screen", and you can fetch these from applications, that's exactly what xinerama, as a protocol, does |
| 2024-09-22 00:44:38 +0200 | <geekosaur> | I have two monitors, the resolution is set by the default monitor, the resolution displayed on the external monitor is all jacked up and this can't be fixed |
| 2024-09-22 00:45:17 +0200 | <L29Ah> | i don't understand what do you call "the resolution displayed on the external monitor is all jacked up" |
| 2024-09-22 00:45:52 +0200 | <geekosaur> | and you can't tell if I take a screenshot because X thinks it's fine |
| 2024-09-22 00:45:59 +0200 | <L29Ah> | if you mean applications not adjusting their sizes to the "screen" they're on, that's the application-side problem, as in "no one cares enough to ask X what's the DPI of the "screen" they sit on" |
| 2024-09-22 00:46:12 +0200 | <geekosaur> | it actually looks reasonable in the screenshot. It's completely wrong on screen |
| 2024-09-22 00:46:19 +0200 | <geekosaur> | no, this is not size |
| 2024-09-22 00:46:40 +0200 | <L29Ah> | i'm out of guesses then |
| 2024-09-22 00:46:42 +0200 | <geekosaur> | this is "fonts are way too big":. This is "the avatars in my Matrix window overlap each other". |
| 2024-09-22 00:46:50 +0200 | <L29Ah> | yes, font size, etc |
| 2024-09-22 00:47:00 +0200 | <geekosaur> | and you do not consider this an issue? |
| 2024-09-22 00:47:06 +0200 | <L29Ah> | application thinks the size is of a Screen, while it should fetch the "screen" info instead |
| 2024-09-22 00:47:12 +0200 | <L29Ah> | this is an issue, but not X-side |
| 2024-09-22 00:47:33 +0200 | <L29Ah> | it's obsolete pre-Xinerama applications |
| 2024-09-22 00:48:10 +0200 | <geekosaur> | nope |
| 2024-09-22 00:48:19 +0200 | <L29Ah> | ? |
| 2024-09-22 00:48:26 +0200 | <geekosaur> | if every application ever has to be rewritten then it's not fixed |
| 2024-09-22 00:48:39 +0200 | <L29Ah> | every application ever has to be rewritten for wayland, duh |
| 2024-09-22 00:48:52 +0200 | <L29Ah> | i'm not sure why some devs decided it's quicker to rewrite everything from scratch instead of patching up major toolkits to be xinerama-aware |
| 2024-09-22 00:49:15 +0200 | <geekosaur> | which is why I started this with [21 22:27:02] <geekosaur> sadly, I think that's not going to happen, at least not entirely. X11 has actual problems, and any replacement that fixes them is going to look more like Wayland than like the X Window System |
| 2024-09-22 00:49:15 +0200 | <geekosaur> | [21 22:27:24] <geekosaur> including any attempt to fix them within X |
| 2024-09-22 00:49:54 +0200 | <L29Ah> | i don't see how this is relevant: xinerama doesn't look like wayland, and it's not a problem that needs fixing within X |
| 2024-09-22 00:50:24 +0200 | <geekosaur> | pretty much every other X11 user sees it, though |
| 2024-09-22 00:50:32 +0200 | <geekosaur> | perhaps this should suggest something? |
| 2024-09-22 00:50:44 +0200 | <L29Ah> | did you make a poll or smth? |
| 2024-09-22 00:51:25 +0200 | <L29Ah> | this suggests you don't have much to say if you resorted to argumentum ad populum |
| 2024-09-22 00:51:42 +0200 | <geekosaur> | given that you've made up your mind, would you believe it if I did? |
| 2024-09-22 01:04:59 +0200 | rascasse | (~rascasse@user/diep) |
| 2024-09-22 01:58:42 +0200 | todi_away | (~todi@p57803331.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2024-09-22 02:01:41 +0200 | todi | (~todi@p57803331.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 2024-09-22 02:17:43 +0200 | rascasse | (~rascasse@user/diep) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2024-09-22 02:41:35 +0200 | <geekosaur> | so, why does a screenshot show the app is doing the right thing, but the video hardware (which supposedly receives the same pixmap) rendering with the wrong sizes? it shouldn't even be able to do that, it can't identify contents |
| 2024-09-22 03:41:57 +0200 | <L29Ah> | sorry, i cannot reproduce seeing different things in screenshots and at xrandr video outputs, please provide pics for clarification |
| 2024-09-22 03:55:44 +0200 | hiecaq | (~hiecaq@user/hiecaq) (Quit: ERC 5.5.0.29.1 (IRC client for GNU Emacs 29.4)) |
| 2024-09-22 03:56:49 +0200 | hiecaq | (~hiecaq@user/hiecaq) |
| 2024-09-22 04:34:36 +0200 | td_ | (~td@i5387092D.versanet.de) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 2024-09-22 04:36:09 +0200 | td_ | (~td@i53870907.versanet.de) |
| 2024-09-22 04:41:34 +0200 | haskellbridge | (~hackager@syn-024-093-192-219.res.spectrum.com) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2024-09-22 05:17:25 +0200 | haskellbridge | (~hackager@syn-024-093-192-219.res.spectrum.com) |
| 2024-09-22 05:37:09 +0200 | rekahsoft | (~rekahsoft@76.69.85.220) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2024-09-22 09:05:45 +0200 | portnov | (~portnov@v-20678-unlim.vpn.mgn.ru) |
| 2024-09-22 09:06:58 +0200 | portnov | (~portnov@v-20678-unlim.vpn.mgn.ru) (Client Quit) |
| 2024-09-22 10:08:07 +0200 | ChubaDuba | (~ChubaDuba@5.166.234.173) |
| 2024-09-22 10:40:22 +0200 | ash3en | (~Thunderbi@2a03:7846:b6eb:101:93ac:a90a:da67:f207) |
| 2024-09-22 11:12:08 +0200 | Digitteknohippie | (~user@user/digit) |
| 2024-09-22 11:13:03 +0200 | Digit | (~user@user/digit) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 2024-09-22 11:14:40 +0200 | <yaslam> | My mouse pointer on Wayland is still laggy on anything except KDE Wayland so for that reason I do not use it |
| 2024-09-22 11:14:57 +0200 | <yaslam> | Plus XMonad is better than any Wayland alternative rn |
| 2024-09-22 11:42:55 +0200 | ash3en | (~Thunderbi@2a03:7846:b6eb:101:93ac:a90a:da67:f207) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
| 2024-09-22 11:49:41 +0200 | Digitteknohippie | Digit |
| 2024-09-22 11:54:30 +0200 | ChubaDuba | (~ChubaDuba@5.166.234.173) (Quit: WeeChat 4.3.3) |
| 2024-09-22 11:56:41 +0200 | ChubaDuba | (~ChubaDuba@5.166.234.173) |
| 2024-09-22 13:10:17 +0200 | ash3en | (~Thunderbi@2a03:7846:b6eb:101:93ac:a90a:da67:f207) |
| 2024-09-22 13:19:10 +0200 | ash3en1 | (~Thunderbi@89.56.182.235) |
| 2024-09-22 13:20:34 +0200 | ash3en | (~Thunderbi@2a03:7846:b6eb:101:93ac:a90a:da67:f207) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
| 2024-09-22 13:20:34 +0200 | ash3en1 | ash3en |
| 2024-09-22 14:29:23 +0200 | ChubaDuba | (~ChubaDuba@5.166.234.173) (Quit: WeeChat 4.3.3) |
| 2024-09-22 14:31:22 +0200 | ash3en | (~Thunderbi@89.56.182.235) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2024-09-22 14:31:38 +0200 | ash3en | (~Thunderbi@146.70.124.222) |
| 2024-09-22 15:18:45 +0200 | ash3en | (~Thunderbi@146.70.124.222) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2024-09-22 15:57:15 +0200 | L29Ah | (~L29Ah@wikipedia/L29Ah) () |
| 2024-09-22 15:57:40 +0200 | ash3en | (~Thunderbi@146.70.124.222) |
| 2024-09-22 16:15:03 +0200 | lambdabot | (~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2024-09-22 16:17:22 +0200 | lambdabot | (~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot) |
| 2024-09-22 16:21:52 +0200 | L29Ah | (~L29Ah@wikipedia/L29Ah) |
| 2024-09-22 16:22:47 +0200 | ash3en | (~Thunderbi@146.70.124.222) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
| 2024-09-22 17:08:02 +0200 | ash3en | (~Thunderbi@146.70.124.222) |
| 2024-09-22 18:17:33 +0200 | ash3en | (~Thunderbi@146.70.124.222) (Quit: ash3en) |
| 2024-09-22 18:23:01 +0200 | ash3en | (~Thunderbi@146.70.124.222) |
| 2024-09-22 18:28:46 +0200 | ash3en1 | (~Thunderbi@2a03:7846:b6eb:101:93ac:a90a:da67:f207) |
| 2024-09-22 18:29:32 +0200 | ash3en | (~Thunderbi@146.70.124.222) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
| 2024-09-22 18:29:32 +0200 | ash3en1 | ash3en |
| 2024-09-22 18:37:20 +0200 | gauge | (~gauge@user/gauge) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
| 2024-09-22 18:40:24 +0200 | gauge | (~gauge@user/gauge) |
| 2024-09-22 19:46:00 +0200 | L29Ah | (~L29Ah@wikipedia/L29Ah) () |
| 2024-09-22 19:55:06 +0200 | mightybyte | (~mightybyt@ec2-52-201-220-249.compute-1.amazonaws.com) (Quit: leaving) |
| 2024-09-22 20:11:46 +0200 | L29Ah | (~L29Ah@wikipedia/L29Ah) |
| 2024-09-22 20:14:21 +0200 | <geekosaur> | wow. this is so much better |
| 2024-09-22 20:15:48 +0200 | <geekosaur> | redux: mate-display-properties hosage. it corrupted some data file somewhere when my old laptop's DisplayPort went out (hardware failure) and I couldn't tell because m-d-p wedged tight on startup. something in Ubuntu 24.04's version changed such that I could finally run it and clean up the garbage. |
| 2024-09-22 20:22:51 +0200 | <geekosaur> | (and toolkits scale fonts and graphical elements separately and may get things wrong if you're not careful or the display config is hosed, as it was in my case) |
| 2024-09-22 20:33:28 +0200 | ash3en | (~Thunderbi@2a03:7846:b6eb:101:93ac:a90a:da67:f207) (Quit: ash3en) |
| 2024-09-22 20:39:27 +0200 | L29Ah | (~L29Ah@wikipedia/L29Ah) () |
| 2024-09-22 21:29:27 +0200 | L29Ah | (~L29Ah@wikipedia/L29Ah) |
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