| 2025-09-07 00:00:22 +0200 | alienmind | (~cmo@2604:3d09:207f:8000::d1dc) |
| 2025-09-07 00:00:43 +0200 | chexum | (~quassel@gateway/tor-sasl/chexum) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-09-07 00:00:51 +0200 | chexum_ | (~quassel@gateway/tor-sasl/chexum) chexum |
| 2025-09-07 00:04:20 +0200 | <alienmind> | hi. i'm trying to install rasterific but can't because i'm getting missing file errors. 'ghc-pkg check' reveals a lot of packages missing 'haddock-html' and 'haddock-interfaces' files. these files seem to be missing in packages installed by pacman. i tried deleteing '~/.cabal' and running 'cabal install --reinstall Rasterific', however it results in the same missing file error. how might i proceed? |
| 2025-09-07 00:04:53 +0200 | inline | (~inline@ip-005-146-196-246.um05.pools.vodafone-ip.de) Inline |
| 2025-09-07 00:06:33 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-09-07 00:10:50 +0200 | trickard | (~trickard@cpe-53-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) |
| 2025-09-07 00:11:07 +0200 | trickard | (~trickard@cpe-53-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) |
| 2025-09-07 00:11:13 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) |
| 2025-09-07 00:12:54 +0200 | <alienmind> | ok ive thought of an approach. i'm going to extract the missing files and directories from the ghc-pkg errors and touch them all |
| 2025-09-07 00:15:33 +0200 | Lycurgus | (~juan@user/Lycurgus) Lycurgus |
| 2025-09-07 00:18:43 +0200 | ystael | (~ystael@user/ystael) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2025-09-07 00:18:47 +0200 | jim_simi | (~jm@2600:1012:a024:8574:476c:f888:d14e:49d) |
| 2025-09-07 00:20:13 +0200 | jim_simi | (~jm@2600:1012:a024:8574:476c:f888:d14e:49d) (Client Quit) |
| 2025-09-07 00:22:02 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-09-07 00:27:48 +0200 | target_i | (~target_i@user/target-i/x-6023099) (Quit: leaving) |
| 2025-09-07 00:28:13 +0200 | <geekosaur> | those should be warnings, not errors, since documentation builds are optional (you would need `documentation: True` in your cabal config or --enable-documentation on the command line) |
| 2025-09-07 00:28:25 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | alienmind: assuming you're on arch linux: either install ghc-static and hope for the best, or uninstall ghc from pacman and get haskell stuff from ghcup instead |
| 2025-09-07 00:28:36 +0200 | <geekosaur> | for pacman, they may have separate documentation packages |
| 2025-09-07 00:28:48 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 2025-09-07 00:28:52 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | the haskell situation in the arch linux repos is a running joke here |
| 2025-09-07 00:29:16 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | ( https://www.haskell.org/ghcup/ ) |
| 2025-09-07 00:32:33 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | if you still have missing files issues with ghcup, tell us precisely what errors you get when running which commands (use e.g. the pastebin in the topic) |
| 2025-09-07 00:32:54 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | I'll be sleeping for ~9 hours now but others might pick it up :) |
| 2025-09-07 00:33:33 +0200 | <geekosaur> | right, you are most likely missing the static packages that Arch deliberately removes and which will prevent pretty much anything they don't package from installing |
| 2025-09-07 00:33:53 +0200 | <geekosaur> | as tomsmeding said, the only real fix is to ditch Arch's ghc entirely and use ghcup |
| 2025-09-07 00:34:17 +0200 | <alienmind> | i'm getting a new laptop. i'm going to install nix on it |
| 2025-09-07 00:34:18 +0200 | <geekosaur> | Arch only cares about packaging the minimum needed to package pandoc built dynamically |
| 2025-09-07 00:37:52 +0200 | arandombit | (~arandombi@user/arandombit) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 2025-09-07 00:38:40 +0200 | Lycurgus | (~juan@user/Lycurgus) (bye room!) |
| 2025-09-07 00:40:06 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-09-07 00:44:34 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) |
| 2025-09-07 00:55:20 +0200 | vanishingideal | (~vanishing@user/vanishingideal) vanishingideal |
| 2025-09-07 00:55:30 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-09-07 00:59:58 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 2025-09-07 01:00:07 +0200 | <anselmschueler> | does anyone know if Stack have fixed their Nix integration so it doesn’t just completely fail any time a GHC version is not in nixpkgs? |
| 2025-09-07 01:00:33 +0200 | <anselmschueler> | last time I tried it Stack just generated the package name for the GHC version and if it wasn’t called that or wasn’t there it would just fail immediately |
| 2025-09-07 01:00:35 +0200 | vanishingideal | (~vanishing@user/vanishingideal) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
| 2025-09-07 01:10:58 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-09-07 01:15:28 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2025-09-07 01:17:07 +0200 | poscat0x04 | (~poscat@user/poscat) poscat |
| 2025-09-07 01:18:46 +0200 | puke | (~puke@user/puke) (Quit: puke) |
| 2025-09-07 01:19:03 +0200 | poscat | (~poscat@user/poscat) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 2025-09-07 01:19:58 +0200 | slondr | (cf9f9e8f44@2a03:6000:1812:100::10b6) slondr |
| 2025-09-07 01:21:27 +0200 | puke | (~puke@user/puke) puke |
| 2025-09-07 01:21:40 +0200 | <slondr> | hi, I have ghc and haskell-language-server installed via GHCup, but when I run lsp in emacs I get: Failed to find the GHC version of this Defaul project. |
| 2025-09-07 01:22:26 +0200 | <slondr> | does this look familiar to anyone? |
| 2025-09-07 01:23:48 +0200 | arandombit | (~arandombi@2603:7000:4600:ffbe:2133:587c:64a5:1340) |
| 2025-09-07 01:23:48 +0200 | arandombit | (~arandombi@2603:7000:4600:ffbe:2133:587c:64a5:1340) (Changing host) |
| 2025-09-07 01:23:48 +0200 | arandombit | (~arandombi@user/arandombit) arandombit |
| 2025-09-07 01:26:22 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-09-07 01:26:37 +0200 | <geekosaur> | what version of cabal did you install? the LSP uses cabal to find out what ghc version a project uses, but the latest HLS doesn't work with the latest cabal (this will be fixed in the next cabal release, scheduled for when ghc 9.14.1 comes out because some tweaks were needed for that as well) |
| 2025-09-07 01:27:05 +0200 | <slondr> | I just accepted all of the default suggestions |
| 2025-09-07 01:27:11 +0200 | <slondr> | So maybe that is the problem? |
| 2025-09-07 01:27:13 +0200 | <geekosaur> | okay, then that's not it |
| 2025-09-07 01:29:57 +0200 | <geekosaur> | the default cabal version in ghcup is 3.12.1.0, it's 3.16.0.0 that breaks current HLS. (which won't be updated for it until ghc 9.14.1 is released and HLS can be updated to support its ghc-lib) |
| 2025-09-07 01:30:46 +0200 | <slondr> | yes my cabal version is 3.12.1.0 and my hls version is 9.4.8 |
| 2025-09-07 01:31:00 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2025-09-07 01:31:22 +0200 | <geekosaur> | you mean ghc version? |
| 2025-09-07 01:31:30 +0200 | <geekosaur> | HLS versions don't go that high |
| 2025-09-07 01:32:18 +0200 | <geekosaur> | also that sounds like an out of date ghcup, or at least ghcup metadata; current metadata has 9.6.7 as recommended |
| 2025-09-07 01:32:51 +0200 | <slondr> | oh! that's a clue |
| 2025-09-07 01:33:02 +0200 | <slondr> | my hls binary is named "haskell-language-server-9.4.8" |
| 2025-09-07 01:33:38 +0200 | <slondr> | It looks like I also have haskell-language-server-9.6.7 |
| 2025-09-07 01:36:16 +0200 | <slondr> | emacs lsp reports: ghc 9.6.7, cabal 3.12.1.0, stack 3.3.1 |
| 2025-09-07 01:36:48 +0200 | <slondr> | I also see: libc.so.6: undefined symbol: __nptl_change_stack_perm, version GLIBC_PRIVATE |
| 2025-09-07 01:39:01 +0200 | <geekosaur> | right, you need an HLS binary for each ghc version because the ghc-api it uses must match |
| 2025-09-07 01:39:16 +0200 | <geekosaur> | the undefined symbol one sounds like much more of a problem |
| 2025-09-07 01:40:55 +0200 | ljdarj1 | (~Thunderbi@user/ljdarj) ljdarj |
| 2025-09-07 01:41:05 +0200 | <slondr> | I'm on glibc 2.42 should I expect hls to support that? |
| 2025-09-07 01:41:46 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-09-07 01:42:13 +0200 | <geekosaur> | the question is whether or how your glibc supports linux's native posix threads library (the "nptl" in that symbol) |
| 2025-09-07 01:43:17 +0200 | hiredman | (~hiredman@frontier1.downey.family) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-09-07 01:44:12 +0200 | <geekosaur> | if you can find libc.so.6, can you run it as if it were a program and if so what does it say for "libc ABIs"? |
| 2025-09-07 01:44:18 +0200 | hiredman | (~hiredman@frontier1.downey.family) hiredman |
| 2025-09-07 01:44:21 +0200 | ljdarj | (~Thunderbi@user/ljdarj) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) |
| 2025-09-07 01:44:21 +0200 | ljdarj1 | ljdarj |
| 2025-09-07 01:44:35 +0200 | <slondr> | libc ABIs: UNIQUE IFUNC ABSOLUTE |
| 2025-09-07 01:45:18 +0200 | <geekosaur> | okay, so that's not it (same here) |
| 2025-09-07 01:45:30 +0200 | <geekosaur> | also I have 2.41 but it's Ubuntu's build |
| 2025-09-07 01:45:43 +0200 | <slondr> | yeah I just have the normal default Arch Linux glibc |
| 2025-09-07 01:46:17 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) |
| 2025-09-07 01:47:33 +0200 | <geekosaur> | this might be a question for maerwald, but the answer may again be "give up on the Arch ghc install" because it just causes too many problems for Haskell maintainers |
| 2025-09-07 01:47:54 +0200 | <slondr> | ah you see, i have already done that. my ghc is from GHCup. |
| 2025-09-07 01:48:07 +0200 | <slondr> | I ran GHCup via the curl | bash command on the website |
| 2025-09-07 01:50:42 +0200 | fp | (~Thunderbi@89-27-10-140.bb.dnainternet.fi) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2025-09-07 01:51:40 +0200 | <geekosaur> | okay, if Arch changed their glibc recently then ghcup's release builds probably need to be adjusted |
| 2025-09-07 01:52:00 +0200 | <slondr> | wait wait wait wait. the glibc error seems to be referencing a glibc version installed by nix |
| 2025-09-07 01:52:25 +0200 | <slondr> | which seems almost certainly wrong, I'd want ghc to reference the system glibc not some random nix derivation glibc |
| 2025-09-07 01:52:52 +0200 | <geekosaur> | https://github.com/NixOS/patchelf |
| 2025-09-07 01:53:43 +0200 | <geekosaur> | nix really wants to be hermetic, but that can break things pretty thoroughly when it comes to stuff like glibc |
| 2025-09-07 01:54:42 +0200 | <slondr> | I don't want ghc to reference anything nix-related at all |
| 2025-09-07 01:54:47 +0200 | <slondr> | I'm not sure why it does |
| 2025-09-07 01:55:42 +0200 | <geekosaur> | make sure nix isn't substituting its own ghc for the one you intended to use |
| 2025-09-07 01:55:56 +0200 | <geekosaur> | the ghc from ghcup won't know about nix |
| 2025-09-07 01:56:16 +0200 | <slondr> | 'which ghc' reports: $HOME/.ghcup/bin/ghc |
| 2025-09-07 01:56:44 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-09-07 01:57:07 +0200 | <slondr> | though 'echo $PATH' sure does report that the /nix bin directories are above the ghcup bin directories, hmm |
| 2025-09-07 01:57:44 +0200 | <geekosaur> | shells cache paths, but something run in a subshell or by a program you run from that shell won;t see the cache and will find the nix one first in that case |
| 2025-09-07 01:59:54 +0200 | <geekosaur> | that said, nix wouldn't insert a ghc into your path unless you're in a directorry with a shell.nix and something knows enough about nix to see that file and load the derivations it specifies |
| 2025-09-07 02:00:06 +0200 | Tuplanolla | (~Tuplanoll@91-159-69-59.elisa-laajakaista.fi) (Quit: Leaving.) |
| 2025-09-07 02:00:14 +0200 | <slondr> | yeah that's definitely not the case here. I'm in a blank directory with one .hs file |
| 2025-09-07 02:00:48 +0200 | sprotte24 | (~sprotte24@p200300d16f1ae200cce55c66184a5d60.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Quit: Leaving) |
| 2025-09-07 02:01:44 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 2025-09-07 02:06:53 +0200 | potato44 | (uid421314@id-421314.lymington.irccloud.com) potato44 |
| 2025-09-07 02:10:09 +0200 | Guest62 | (~Guest62@c-73-217-79-154.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 2025-09-07 02:10:48 +0200 | trickard | (~trickard@cpe-53-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2025-09-07 02:11:02 +0200 | trickard_ | (~trickard@cpe-53-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) |
| 2025-09-07 02:12:17 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-09-07 02:14:30 +0200 | trickard_ | (~trickard@cpe-53-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2025-09-07 02:17:02 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 2025-09-07 02:17:47 +0200 | Guest62 | (~Guest62@c-73-217-79-154.hsd1.co.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) |
| 2025-09-07 02:21:31 +0200 | trickard_ | (~trickard@cpe-53-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) |
| 2025-09-07 02:24:54 +0200 | arandombit | (~arandombi@user/arandombit) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2025-09-07 02:25:31 +0200 | otto_s | (~user@p5de2f1c5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 2025-09-07 02:27:02 +0200 | otto_s | (~user@p5b044af8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 2025-09-07 02:27:39 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-09-07 02:28:18 +0200 | <geekosaur> | there is one more thing you can try but it's a bit involved |
| 2025-09-07 02:30:21 +0200 | segfaultfizzbuzz | (~segfaultf@23-93-74-222.fiber.dynamic.sonic.net) |
| 2025-09-07 02:30:50 +0200 | ttybitnik | (~ttybitnik@user/wolper) (Quit: Fading out...) |
| 2025-09-07 02:31:08 +0200 | trickard_ | (~trickard@cpe-53-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) |
| 2025-09-07 02:31:29 +0200 | <geekosaur> | ghcup's ghc "binary" is actually a shell script wrapper. you would need to extract the path to the actual ghc binary from it and run `LD_BIND_NOW=1 ldd` on it (at least, I think LD_BIND_NOW works there; not certain) and see if you get the same error. you will also get the path to the glibc (libc.so.6) it's trying to use, but it may be hidden among a bunch of Haskell shared objects. (but in my case it's actually right at the end of the list) |
| 2025-09-07 02:31:33 +0200 | trickard_ | (~trickard@cpe-53-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) |
| 2025-09-07 02:32:17 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) |
| 2025-09-07 02:32:59 +0200 | <geekosaur> | oh, looks like instead of the `LD_BIND_NOW=1` part you could use `ldd -r` |
| 2025-09-07 02:34:36 +0200 | segfaultfizzbuzz | (~segfaultf@23-93-74-222.fiber.dynamic.sonic.net) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 2025-09-07 02:35:29 +0200 | acidjnk | (~acidjnk@p200300d6e7171913b85d875ab8253342.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) |
| 2025-09-07 02:37:34 +0200 | trickard_ | trickard |
| 2025-09-07 02:38:54 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-09-07 02:43:24 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) |
| 2025-09-07 02:45:07 +0200 | arandombit | (~arandombi@2603:7000:4600:ffbe:2133:587c:64a5:1340) |
| 2025-09-07 02:45:07 +0200 | arandombit | (~arandombi@2603:7000:4600:ffbe:2133:587c:64a5:1340) (Changing host) |
| 2025-09-07 02:45:07 +0200 | arandombit | (~arandombi@user/arandombit) arandombit |
| 2025-09-07 02:46:15 +0200 | tremon | (~tremon@83.80.159.219) (Quit: getting boxed in) |
| 2025-09-07 02:48:29 +0200 | EvanR | (~EvanR@user/evanr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-09-07 02:48:49 +0200 | EvanR | (~EvanR@user/evanr) EvanR |
| 2025-09-07 02:49:05 +0200 | jespada | (~jespada@2800:a4:2309:e000:7cc9:782d:9408:1f91) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
| 2025-09-07 02:49:54 +0200 | arandombit | (~arandombi@user/arandombit) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 2025-09-07 02:51:40 +0200 | jespada | (~jespada@2800:a4:22ff:7a00:f5ee:99f1:c7f5:1d5a) jespada |
| 2025-09-07 02:54:18 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-09-07 02:58:58 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 2025-09-07 03:02:06 +0200 | arandombit | (~arandombi@2603:7000:4600:ffbe:2133:587c:64a5:1340) |
| 2025-09-07 03:02:06 +0200 | arandombit | (~arandombi@2603:7000:4600:ffbe:2133:587c:64a5:1340) (Changing host) |
| 2025-09-07 03:02:06 +0200 | arandombit | (~arandombi@user/arandombit) arandombit |
| 2025-09-07 03:04:38 +0200 | ljdarj | (~Thunderbi@user/ljdarj) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 2025-09-07 03:05:13 +0200 | alienmind | (~cmo@2604:3d09:207f:8000::d1dc) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-09-07 03:05:35 +0200 | alienmind | (~cmo@2604:3d09:207f:8000::d1dc) |
| 2025-09-07 03:06:07 +0200 | segfaultfizzbuzz | (~segfaultf@23-93-74-222.fiber.dynamic.sonic.net) |
| 2025-09-07 03:09:41 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-09-07 03:10:18 +0200 | alienmind | (~cmo@2604:3d09:207f:8000::d1dc) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 2025-09-07 03:16:32 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 2025-09-07 03:22:46 +0200 | trickard | (~trickard@cpe-53-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2025-09-07 03:22:59 +0200 | trickard_ | (~trickard@cpe-53-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) |
| 2025-09-07 03:25:50 +0200 | leungbk | (~user@syn-104-032-221-175.res.spectrum.com) leungbk |
| 2025-09-07 03:27:43 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-09-07 03:30:48 +0200 | leungbk | (~user@syn-104-032-221-175.res.spectrum.com) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2025-09-07 03:32:28 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) |
| 2025-09-07 03:36:31 +0200 | srandomizer | (~user@185.159.157.137) |
| 2025-09-07 03:39:00 +0200 | trickard_ | (~trickard@cpe-53-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2025-09-07 03:39:19 +0200 | trickard | (~trickard@cpe-53-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) |
| 2025-09-07 03:43:06 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-09-07 03:45:45 +0200 | anselmschueler | (~Thunderbi@user/schuelermine) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2025-09-07 03:47:48 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) |
| 2025-09-07 03:52:07 +0200 | notzmv | (~umar@user/notzmv) notzmv |
| 2025-09-07 03:56:32 +0200 | <ski> | monochrom : fwiw, in Prolog, those are not identifiers, but a predicate indicator |
| 2025-09-07 03:58:36 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-09-07 04:01:24 +0200 | <monochrom> | They indicate arities. But then, foo/1 and foo/2 can be completely unrelated, even though socially people try not to abuse that freedom. |
| 2025-09-07 04:03:00 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 2025-09-07 04:03:16 +0200 | <ski> | yes |
| 2025-09-07 04:03:51 +0200 | <monochrom> | There is also a step of "inspiration" meaning distortion when I think about "what can this syntax do for Haskell?" |
| 2025-09-07 04:03:55 +0200 | <ski> | sometimes people use a higher arity, for a helper/worker predicate, e.g. introducing an accumulator |
| 2025-09-07 04:04:46 +0200 | <monochrom> | Arity is elusive in Haskell. So may as well "simplify" and just say this is additional syntax for moar identifiers! |
| 2025-09-07 04:05:03 +0200 | op_4 | (~tslil@user/op-4/x-9116473) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-09-07 04:05:37 +0200 | op_4 | (~tslil@user/op-4/x-9116473) op_4 |
| 2025-09-07 04:07:05 +0200 | <geekosaur> | people do that already with ticks |
| 2025-09-07 04:07:11 +0200 | <geekosaur> | not to say `go` |
| 2025-09-07 04:07:35 +0200 | <ski> | generally, i prefer a naming like e.g. sum_list_add/3, with the understanding that `sum_list_add(Numbers,Initial,Total) <=> sum_list(Numbers,Sum),Total is Initial + Sum'. or flatten_tree_append/3, with `flatten_tree_append(Tree,Suffix,List) <=> flatten_tree(Tree,Elements),append(Elements,Suffix,List)' |
| 2025-09-07 04:08:28 +0200 | <ski> | or, if there's no such reasonable naming, at least adding `_aux' or similar, to the end of the predicate name, to indicate that it's a worker/helper for the other predicate |
| 2025-09-07 04:09:59 +0200 | <ski> | in Haskell, we could have `reverse xs = revAppend xs []', where `revAppend' is specified (not implemented) by `revAppend xs suffix = reverse xs ++ suffix' |
| 2025-09-07 04:11:25 +0200 | <monochrom> | I empathize with not wanting to think up names for helpers. I too suffer from spending 10% time writing up the helper and 90% time finding a good name for it. |
| 2025-09-07 04:12:04 +0200 | <monochrom> | "go" works in Haskell because local scope. Prolog has no such luxury. |
| 2025-09-07 04:12:29 +0200 | <monochrom> | (One of two reasons I don't want to teach Prolog actually.) |
| 2025-09-07 04:13:18 +0200 | <Clint> | the other is harmful cuts? |
| 2025-09-07 04:13:23 +0200 | <monochrom> | Yeah. |
| 2025-09-07 04:13:26 +0200 | <ski> | oh .. and i also use similar naming, for versions of a predicate, or function, specialized to a particular constructor. e.g. `orderedCons' specified by `orderedCons x xs = ordered (x : xs)' (and also having `ordered [] = True'), implemented by `orderedCons _ [] = True; orderedCons x0 (x1 : xs) = x0 <= x1 && orderedCons x1 xs' |
| 2025-09-07 04:13:58 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-09-07 04:14:01 +0200 | <ski> | yea .. cuts are rather bad |
| 2025-09-07 04:15:20 +0200 | <ski> | and i do use `loop'/`go', or similar, for a local helper or loop, often. but if there's an obvious reasonable name along the lines above, i tend to go with that, possiblly also exporting the operation |
| 2025-09-07 04:16:18 +0200 | <ski> | Mercury is nicer than Prolog, in that it has no cuts. also has automatic conjunct reordering, so it can be easier to use multiple modes of a predicate (or function) |
| 2025-09-07 04:17:13 +0200 | notzmv | (~umar@user/notzmv) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-09-07 04:17:52 +0200 | <ski> | there are two main reasons for why cut is bad. (a) that it is inherently illogical, non-declarative (and also very easy to accidentally make your predicate "non-steeadfast" (not monotone, in terms of information about the parameters), if you're not careful) |
| 2025-09-07 04:18:01 +0200 | <monochrom> | I know how to teach delimited continuation. That is, with an explicit delimiter like "reset" that the programmer is allowed to place anywhere. I would agree to teach cut if it had the same explicit place-anywhere-you-see-fit delimiter rather than "the delimiter is the owning predicate, therefore you must always define a helper predicate". |
| 2025-09-07 04:18:30 +0200 | <monochrom> | s/define/contrive/ |
| 2025-09-07 04:18:55 +0200 | <monochrom> | Now also cross that with no local definitions. |
| 2025-09-07 04:19:29 +0200 | segfaultfizzbuzz | (~segfaultf@23-93-74-222.fiber.dynamic.sonic.net) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) |
| 2025-09-07 04:19:52 +0200 | <ski> | but also (b), that it implicitly refers to the "current clause", just as `return' refers to the current function, and `break',`continue' refers to the current (innermost enclosing) loop (or `switch', for the former), in C. this means that you can't naively factor out (or the reverse) a piece of code (taking care to parameterize on the variables that cross the boundary of the factored-out code) |
| 2025-09-07 04:21:33 +0200 | <ski> | you could have (a) without (b). using the conditional, `( Condition -> Consequent ; Alternate )', in Prolog amounts to (a) without (b). many Prologs also have a version of this that does not cut away all but the first solution of `Condition', which behaves better, logically/declaratively. this latter is also what Mercury does |
| 2025-09-07 04:22:14 +0200 | <ski> | "would agree to teach cut if it had the same explicit place-anywhere-you-see-fit delimiter" -- exactly |
| 2025-09-07 04:22:27 +0200 | <ski> | (a) is "just" a kind of side-effect |
| 2025-09-07 04:22:52 +0200 | <ski> | (b) is "syntactic dynamic scope" |
| 2025-09-07 04:23:04 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) |
| 2025-09-07 04:23:54 +0200 | <ski> | i really would like a logic programming language, with a convenient and reasonable way to have local definitions |
| 2025-09-07 04:25:06 +0200 | <ski> | you can make them, in lambdaProlog (and Twelf) .. but would like some syntactic sugar, and implicit quantification, on top of the basic semantic feature |
| 2025-09-07 04:26:23 +0200 | <monochrom> | I have started teaching Curry for the logic programming part of my course. (The FP part is Haskell. This means confusingly I teach one syntax with two different semantics haha.) And I think Verse is even better (semantics is well-balanced between theory and pragmatism). |
| 2025-09-07 04:26:37 +0200 | <ski> | traditionally, a logic program is seen as a sequence of clauses, each terminated by a full stop. ideally, the syntax for terminating/separating top-level clauses from each otheer should be the same as for local clauses |
| 2025-09-07 04:27:17 +0200 | <ski> | yea, Curry (and Escher) uses a Haskell-like syntax. but they also use `=' rather than implication |
| 2025-09-07 04:27:33 +0200 | <ski> | i dunno Verge |
| 2025-09-07 04:30:12 +0200 | <ski> | btw, you can reason about, introduce, (b), in Lisp macro system. specifically, in some Scheme systems, you can have it as an opt-in feature. Racket has "syntax parameters", which are "parameters" (dynamic scope), but on the level of "syntax" (macros) |
| 2025-09-07 04:31:23 +0200 | <monochrom> | Verse is Tim Sweeney's language. Eventually it will have all paradigms. SPJ joined Epic and published a paper on the functional logic part. |
| 2025-09-07 04:31:52 +0200 | <ski> | oh. it's supposed to be usable for parts of game engine stuff ? |
| 2025-09-07 04:33:24 +0200 | <monochrom> | It is Fortnight's script language or something like that. |
| 2025-09-07 04:33:45 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-09-07 04:33:59 +0200 | <monochrom> | Err, or Unreal Engine, yeah. |
| 2025-09-07 04:38:08 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 2025-09-07 04:40:16 +0200 | <monochrom> | This: https://simon.peytonjones.org/verse-calculus/ |
| 2025-09-07 04:47:55 +0200 | <ski> | in lambdaProlog, you can write |
| 2025-09-07 04:48:18 +0200 | <ski> | reverse Xs0 RevXs0 :- |
| 2025-09-07 04:48:32 +0200 | <ski> | pi loop \ |
| 2025-09-07 04:48:54 +0200 | arandombit | (~arandombi@user/arandombit) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 2025-09-07 04:49:07 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-09-07 04:49:18 +0200 | <ski> | ( loop nil RevXs0 |
| 2025-09-07 04:49:52 +0200 | <ski> | => ( pi X \ pi Xs \ pi Acc \ |
| 2025-09-07 04:50:07 +0200 | <ski> | ( loop (X :: Xs) Acc :- |
| 2025-09-07 04:50:13 +0200 | <ski> | loop Xs (X :: Acc) |
| 2025-09-07 04:50:21 +0200 | <ski> | ) |
| 2025-09-07 04:50:31 +0200 | <ski> | ) |
| 2025-09-07 04:50:39 +0200 | <ski> | => loop Xs0 nil |
| 2025-09-07 04:50:41 +0200 | <ski> | ). |
| 2025-09-07 04:51:52 +0200 | <ski> | here `loop' is a local predicate (also notice how the first clause of `loop' non-locally will instantiate the parameter `RevXs0' of `reverse', when reaching the base case, end of list, so that we don't need to pass up the final result of the accumulator up the recursion chain) |
| 2025-09-07 04:53:16 +0200 | <ski> | but, it's annoying to have to explicitly quantify the parameters of the local clauses (not including `RevXs0'), and also to have to locally quantifier `loop'. and syntactically, it's annoying that the local clauses are not terminated with a `.', like the top-level one is |
| 2025-09-07 04:54:30 +0200 | <ski> | (oh, and yes, `pi' is universal quantification. its type is `(A -> o) -> o'. `o' is the type of propositions. `loop \ ..loop..', as well as `X \ ..X..', &c. are lambda terms) |
| 2025-09-07 04:55:41 +0200 | <ski> | right, Unreal Engine |
| 2025-09-07 04:55:53 +0200 | <ski> | ty for the Verse link |
| 2025-09-07 04:56:15 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 2025-09-07 04:57:56 +0200 | <ski> | (Twelf is rather similar to lambdaProlog, apart from being dependently typed, and having a bunch of more features and static checking, related to theorem proving, termination checking, a rudimentary mode and determinism system, &c.) |
| 2025-09-07 04:59:04 +0200 | srandomizer | (~user@185.159.157.137) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-09-07 04:59:34 +0200 | <ski> | "a new core calculus for deterministic functional logic programming" -- i wonder how this compares to Oz |
| 2025-09-07 04:59:52 +0200 | srandomizer | (~user@185.159.157.137) |
| 2025-09-07 05:01:29 +0200 | humasect | (~humasect@dyn-192-249-132-90.nexicom.net) humasect |
| 2025-09-07 05:02:52 +0200 | <ski> | btw, with `=>' (implication), you can do a kind of "dynamic scope", namely of predicate clauses. the goal `( <clause> => <goal> )' temporarily assumes (adds/asserts) `<clause>', for the duration of the solving / execution / solution-search of `<goal>'. when (if) that succeeds, the clause is removed. if we backtrack back inside, it is added again. if we fail back to before, it is removed |
| 2025-09-07 05:03:09 +0200 | mhatta | (~mhatta@www21123ui.sakura.ne.jp) (Quit: ZNC 1.9.1+deb2+b3 - https://znc.in) |
| 2025-09-07 05:04:05 +0200 | arandombit | (~arandombi@user/arandombit) arandombit |
| 2025-09-07 05:06:03 +0200 | mhatta | (~mhatta@www21123ui.sakura.ne.jp) |
| 2025-09-07 05:06:03 +0200 | <ski> | one can see the presence of goal implications (and also goal universal quantifications) as a kind of "completeness" of features, for effectively being able to reason about and manipulate lambda terms (as data, e.g. for HOAS). however, even without lambda terms, goal implication & universals can be quite handy and nice. iirc there's some "completeness" result that the Hereditary Harrop formulae, which is the |
| 2025-09-07 05:06:09 +0200 | <ski> | analogue of Horn clauses for lambdaProlog (and Twelf), which inclused these two kinds of goals, is the largest class of formulae that can serve as an "abstract logic programming language", for intuitionistic logic |
| 2025-09-07 05:06:56 +0200 | <ski> | being "abstract logic programming language" amounts to two properties, (a) goal-directedness; and (b) clause-focusing |
| 2025-09-07 05:07:09 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-09-07 05:08:47 +0200 | <ski> | goal-directedness means that every proof in the given system fragment, if the conclusion formula in the sequent is not atomic (so uses some connective), can be rewritten to an equivalent proof whose last inference rule is a right (introduction) rule for that connective |
| 2025-09-07 05:10:27 +0200 | <ski> | clause-focusing means that every proof where the conclusion is atom, can be rewritten in such a way that we successively apply left (introduction) rules (from the root of the proof tree up) to a single chosen / focused clause, until we end up with an atomic clause (which them must unify with the atomic conclusion of the sequent) |
| 2025-09-07 05:11:45 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) |
| 2025-09-07 05:11:54 +0200 | <ski> | these two properties means that we can cut away most of the non-determnism in the selection of which inference rules to apply. so that we can read a non-atomic goal as search instructions for how to execute the goal, not needing to consult any clause as long as the goal is non-atomic |
| 2025-09-07 05:13:32 +0200 | <ski> | the latter property meaning that once the goal is atomic, it suffices to (non-deterministically) choose one clause to focus on, and then to continue reducing that (generating goals as extra side-conditions along the way), until we can determine that the clause matches the atomic goal (and we can execute the side-condition goals, the bodies of the clause) |
| 2025-09-07 05:14:27 +0200 | <ski> | so, the latter means that we can treat predicate call goals as procedure invocations, and treat clauses as (partial) implementations of these |
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| 2025-09-07 05:16:13 +0200 | <ski> | the remaining non-determinism, in the system, is in the choice of clause to focus on (and in the choice of which conjunct of a clause to focus on, e.g. in `( foo & bar ) :- baz.'), and in the choice of which disjunct in a disjunction goal to attempt to prove |
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| 2025-09-07 05:18:52 +0200 | <ski> | technically, there's also non-determinism in the choice of which term to instantiate logic variables (as in existential goals, and universal clauses) to. but this can be dealt with, in the usual lazy fashion, delaying these choices until we need some equality to hold, by using unification (rather than backtracking or perhaps some other means to implement non-determinism, like some breadth-first or parallel |
| 2025-09-07 05:18:58 +0200 | <ski> | exploration) |
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| 2025-09-07 08:43:48 +0200 | Guest1285 | (jinsun@here.and.ready-to.party) (Changing host) |
| 2025-09-07 08:43:48 +0200 | Guest1285 | (jinsun@user/jinsun) jinsun |
| 2025-09-07 08:43:48 +0200 | Guest1285 | jinsun |
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| 2025-09-07 09:00:01 +0200 | caconym747 | (~caconym@user/caconym) (Quit: bye) |
| 2025-09-07 09:00:05 +0200 | tt12310978324354 | (~tt1231@2603:6010:8700:4a81:219f:50d3:618a:a6ee) (Quit: The Lounge - https://thelounge.chat) |
| 2025-09-07 09:00:45 +0200 | caconym747 | (~caconym@user/caconym) caconym |
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| 2025-09-07 10:11:24 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
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| 2025-09-07 10:15:52 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
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| 2025-09-07 10:23:36 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
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| 2025-09-07 10:38:59 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
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| 2025-09-07 10:58:29 +0200 | Tuplanolla | (~Tuplanoll@91-159-69-59.elisa-laajakaista.fi) Tuplanolla |
| 2025-09-07 11:03:55 +0200 | trickard_ | trickard |
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| 2025-09-07 11:07:23 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
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| 2025-09-07 11:20:57 +0200 | emmanuelux | (~emmanuelu@user/emmanuelux) emmanuelux |
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| 2025-09-07 11:23:03 +0200 | segfaultfizzbuzz | (~segfaultf@23-93-74-222.fiber.dynamic.sonic.net) segfaultfizzbuzz |
| 2025-09-07 11:24:37 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
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| 2025-09-07 11:29:32 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 2025-09-07 11:37:00 +0200 | nshepperd2 | (~nshepperd@2a01:4f9:3b:4cc9::2) (Quit: The Lounge - https://thelounge.chat) |
| 2025-09-07 11:39:40 +0200 | nshepperd2 | (~nshepperd@2a01:4f9:3b:4cc9::2) nshepperd |
| 2025-09-07 11:40:00 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-09-07 11:41:00 +0200 | <arahael> | I'm attempting to check for data in a pty, however, the only routines available are to actually block until I'm reading from it. I'm using spawnWithPty from System.Process.Pty. Is my only option to spawn a separate thread and do blocking stuff in that thread? |
| 2025-09-07 11:42:25 +0200 | <arahael> | (And using forkOS at that) |
| 2025-09-07 11:43:18 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | should be no need for forkOS, the GHC runtime is asynchronous under the hood anyway |
| 2025-09-07 11:43:40 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | the ghc-haskell-ish way would indeed be to forkIO and block there |
| 2025-09-07 11:44:50 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 2025-09-07 11:44:50 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | arahael: what would you do with the result of a check if data is currently available? Would you do polling? |
| 2025-09-07 11:45:10 +0200 | <arahael> | Well, if there was data available, I'd be reading it. |
| 2025-09-07 11:45:17 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | and if there wasn't? |
| 2025-09-07 11:45:23 +0200 | <arahael> | If there is no data availabl,e I'd be querying something else and THEN checking if there's data. |
| 2025-09-07 11:45:28 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | I see |
| 2025-09-07 11:45:36 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | so your own scheduler? |
| 2025-09-07 11:45:40 +0200 | <arahael> | Basically yes. |
| 2025-09-07 11:45:46 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | the GHC RTS has a good scheduler :) |
| 2025-09-07 11:45:53 +0200 | <arahael> | "If there's data on A, process A. Otherwise if there's data on B, process B. Repeat". |
| 2025-09-07 11:46:14 +0200 | <arahael> | Hmm, so I'm inferring from your response that the blocking routines for these reads is not blocking the OS thread? |
| 2025-09-07 11:46:19 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | yes |
| 2025-09-07 11:46:39 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | start two forkIO threads to wait for data on A and B, and send the results on a Chan (Either MsgA MsgB) that you consume in a third forkIO thread |
| 2025-09-07 11:46:57 +0200 | <arahael> | Awesome, that works then, how would I normally know, though, just from reading the code? I'm observing functions such as: threadWaitReadPty :: Pty -> IO () |
| 2025-09-07 11:46:59 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | if you don't need to handle the messages centrally in one place you can handle them in the A and B threads immediately, of course |
| 2025-09-07 11:47:14 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | arahael: in principle, _nothing_ in the GHC RTS blocks the OS thread |
| 2025-09-07 11:47:25 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | there are exceptions: foreign calls block |
| 2025-09-07 11:47:33 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | "unsafe" foreign calls, that is |
| 2025-09-07 11:47:35 +0200 | <arahael> | Ah, so if it were to block the OS thread, it should be very very strongly called out in the documentation, then? |
| 2025-09-07 11:47:40 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | yes |
| 2025-09-07 11:47:42 +0200 | <arahael> | Excellent. |
| 2025-09-07 11:47:49 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | if it isn't, file a bug :p |
| 2025-09-07 11:47:53 +0200 | <arahael> | :P |
| 2025-09-07 11:48:54 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | arahael: there is one pernicious thing that blocks an OS thread in GHC haskell: a tight loop that doesn't allocate |
| 2025-09-07 11:49:21 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | scheduler yields occur on allocation, so if you have a tight loop that doesn't allocate, it doesn't yield and it doesn't relinquish the OS thread |
| 2025-09-07 11:49:30 +0200 | <arahael> | I've heard about that. |
| 2025-09-07 11:49:33 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | (the runtime is kind of cooperatively scheduled) |
| 2025-09-07 11:49:38 +0200 | <arahael> | Yeah, makes sense. |
| 2025-09-07 11:49:50 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | iirc there's an option to GHC that makes it insert more yields |
| 2025-09-07 11:49:59 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | if you suspect that this is causing you pain |
| 2025-09-07 11:50:13 +0200 | <arahael> | I think I can cross that bridge if I ever get to it, I think what I needed now was to sort of learn the more typical conventions, so you've been very helpful. |
| 2025-09-07 11:50:20 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | yay :) |
| 2025-09-07 11:51:40 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | this one https://downloads.haskell.org/ghc/latest/docs/users_guide/using-optimisation.html#ghc-flag-fomit-y… |
| 2025-09-07 11:51:59 +0200 | segfaultfizzbuzz | (~segfaultf@23-93-74-222.fiber.dynamic.sonic.net) segfaultfizzbuzz |
| 2025-09-07 11:52:08 +0200 | <arahael> | Ah, cool. |
| 2025-09-07 11:53:25 +0200 | ljdarj | (~Thunderbi@user/ljdarj) ljdarj |
| 2025-09-07 11:55:24 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-09-07 11:56:00 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | there are also some operations on the haskell level that are "non-interruptible" ( https://hackage.haskell.org/package/base-4.21.0.0/docs/Control-Exception.html#g:12 ), which can be important if you do tricky things with concurrency and exceptions (and MVars, mostly) |
| 2025-09-07 11:56:20 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | but they are non-interruptible _on the haskell level_, meaning that you need to reach for heavier-handed exception machinery to interrupt them |
| 2025-09-07 11:56:30 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | they still don't block the OS thread on the scheduler level |
| 2025-09-07 11:57:47 +0200 | segfaultfizzbuzz | (~segfaultf@23-93-74-222.fiber.dynamic.sonic.net) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
| 2025-09-07 11:57:50 +0200 | <arahael> | Nice, I'm not expecting to do anything 'tricky' at this stage. |
| 2025-09-07 11:57:59 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | cool, then you should forget about this particular bit :p |
| 2025-09-07 11:58:11 +0200 | <arahael> | And if I am, then I'll be re-asking here to figure out what I'm doing wrong. :P |
| 2025-09-07 11:58:16 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | please do |
| 2025-09-07 11:58:28 +0200 | trickard_ | trickard |
| 2025-09-07 11:58:44 +0200 | <arahael> | Been ages since I've been here, actually, been out of the haskell space for a while. I miss it. |
| 2025-09-07 11:59:09 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | I hope you enjoy being here :) |
| 2025-09-07 12:00:08 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 2025-09-07 12:00:31 +0200 | <arahael> | I am. :) It's so refreshing. |
| 2025-09-07 12:00:37 +0200 | <arahael> | Nice having a real type system again. |
| 2025-09-07 12:01:35 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | just looked at that suspiciously named threadWaitRead function; I'm 99% sure the "thread" referred to there is the Haskell-level forkIO thread |
| 2025-09-07 12:02:09 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | a few functions deep you end up here https://hackage.haskell.org/package/base-4.14.0.0/docs/src/GHC.Event.Thread.html#threadWait |
| 2025-09-07 12:02:09 +0200 | <arahael> | Ah, good. |
| 2025-09-07 12:02:20 +0200 | <arahael> | I was confused why I couldn't get the handle from it, though. |
| 2025-09-07 12:02:26 +0200 | <arahael> | (getFd is not exported in that module) |
| 2025-09-07 12:02:31 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | which seems to implement the actual waiting by registering a callback on some kind of event; that callback does a putMVar, and the actual waiting is a takeMVar |
| 2025-09-07 12:03:22 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | yeah good question |
| 2025-09-07 12:04:07 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | maaybe to have future compatibility with platforms where a pty is not a file descriptor? |
| 2025-09-07 12:04:18 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | but then the "Portability" field at the top of the docs has value "haha"... :p |
| 2025-09-07 12:04:22 +0200 | <Franciman> | ski: can we have ontological modelling in haskell? |
| 2025-09-07 12:04:24 +0200 | <arahael> | I did notice that. :P |
| 2025-09-07 12:09:11 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | @tell merijn why did you make the Pty type in posix-pty abstract, i.e. why does the user have no ability to get the underlying Fd? (tell arahael your answer) |
| 2025-09-07 12:09:11 +0200 | <lambdabot> | Consider it noted. |
| 2025-09-07 12:09:43 +0200 | <arahael> | Thanks! :) |
| 2025-09-07 12:10:54 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-09-07 12:11:14 +0200 | segfaultfizzbuzz | (~segfaultf@23-93-74-222.fiber.dynamic.sonic.net) |
| 2025-09-07 12:12:51 +0200 | oxapentane | (~oxapentan@git.oxapentane.com) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-09-07 12:13:28 +0200 | oxapentane | (~oxapentan@user/oxapentane) oxapentane |
| 2025-09-07 12:15:26 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 2025-09-07 12:25:37 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-09-07 12:29:07 +0200 | ljdarj1 | (~Thunderbi@user/ljdarj) ljdarj |
| 2025-09-07 12:30:18 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 2025-09-07 12:31:22 +0200 | ljdarj | (~Thunderbi@user/ljdarj) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
| 2025-09-07 12:31:24 +0200 | ljdarj1 | ljdarj |
| 2025-09-07 12:32:33 +0200 | leungbk | (~user@syn-104-032-221-175.res.spectrum.com) leungbk |
| 2025-09-07 12:38:20 +0200 | Lycurgus | (~juan@user/Lycurgus) Lycurgus |
| 2025-09-07 12:41:00 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-09-07 12:46:02 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 2025-09-07 12:55:12 +0200 | GdeVolpiano | (~GdeVolpia@user/GdeVolpiano) (Quit: WeeChat 4.5.2) |
| 2025-09-07 12:56:31 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-09-07 13:00:13 +0200 | GdeVolpiano | (~GdeVolpia@user/GdeVolpiano) GdeVolpiano |
| 2025-09-07 13:01:05 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 2025-09-07 13:03:51 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-09-07 13:12:10 +0200 | Sgeo | (~Sgeo@user/sgeo) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2025-09-07 13:13:14 +0200 | segfaultfizzbuzz | (~segfaultf@23-93-74-222.fiber.dynamic.sonic.net) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 2025-09-07 13:14:33 +0200 | __monty__ | (~toonn@user/toonn) toonn |
| 2025-09-07 13:14:34 +0200 | haritz | (~hrtz@2a01:4b00:bc2e:7000:d5af:a266:ca31:5ef8) |
| 2025-09-07 13:14:34 +0200 | haritz | (~hrtz@2a01:4b00:bc2e:7000:d5af:a266:ca31:5ef8) (Changing host) |
| 2025-09-07 13:14:34 +0200 | haritz | (~hrtz@user/haritz) haritz |
| 2025-09-07 13:22:41 +0200 | sindu | (~sindu@176.75.108.200) |
| 2025-09-07 13:28:15 +0200 | Lord_of_Life_ | (~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915) Lord_of_Life |
| 2025-09-07 13:28:32 +0200 | Lord_of_Life | (~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 2025-09-07 13:30:04 +0200 | Lord_of_Life_ | Lord_of_Life |
| 2025-09-07 13:33:09 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) |
| 2025-09-07 13:42:38 +0200 | segfaultfizzbuzz | (~segfaultf@23-93-74-222.fiber.dynamic.sonic.net) segfaultfizzbuzz |
| 2025-09-07 13:44:06 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-09-07 13:45:37 +0200 | MelodyOwO | (~MelodyOwO@user/MelodyOwO) MelodyOwO |
| 2025-09-07 13:46:57 +0200 | segfaultfizzbuzz | (~segfaultf@23-93-74-222.fiber.dynamic.sonic.net) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) |
| 2025-09-07 13:49:15 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) |
| 2025-09-07 13:53:11 +0200 | trickard | (~trickard@cpe-53-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2025-09-07 13:53:25 +0200 | trickard_ | (~trickard@cpe-53-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) |
| 2025-09-07 13:54:02 +0200 | segfaultfizzbuzz | (~segfaultf@23-93-74-222.fiber.dynamic.sonic.net) |
| 2025-09-07 13:59:54 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-09-07 14:04:55 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) |
| 2025-09-07 14:15:40 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-09-07 14:20:40 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 2025-09-07 14:25:12 +0200 | leungbk | (~user@syn-104-032-221-175.res.spectrum.com) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 2025-09-07 14:26:49 +0200 | leungbk | (~user@syn-104-032-221-175.res.spectrum.com) leungbk |
| 2025-09-07 14:28:48 +0200 | fp | (~Thunderbi@89-27-10-140.bb.dnainternet.fi) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2025-09-07 14:29:10 +0200 | MelodyOwO | (~MelodyOwO@user/MelodyOwO) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2025-09-07 14:29:17 +0200 | MelodyOwO1 | (~MelodyOwO@dhcp46-187-164-95.eaw.com.pl) |
| 2025-09-07 14:31:25 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-09-07 14:31:30 +0200 | MelodyOwO1 | (~MelodyOwO@dhcp46-187-164-95.eaw.com.pl) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2025-09-07 14:31:54 +0200 | Lycurgus | (~juan@user/Lycurgus) (Quit: alsoknownas.renjuan.org ( juan@acm.org )) |
| 2025-09-07 14:33:22 +0200 | wootehfoot | (~wootehfoo@user/wootehfoot) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2025-09-07 14:36:01 +0200 | MelodyOwO | (~MelodyOwO@user/MelodyOwO) MelodyOwO |
| 2025-09-07 14:36:11 +0200 | MelodyOwO1 | (~MelodyOwO@dhcp46-187-164-95.eaw.com.pl) |
| 2025-09-07 14:36:19 +0200 | MelodyOwO1 | (~MelodyOwO@dhcp46-187-164-95.eaw.com.pl) (Client Quit) |
| 2025-09-07 14:36:27 +0200 | MelodyOwO | (~MelodyOwO@user/MelodyOwO) (Client Quit) |
| 2025-09-07 14:36:33 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 2025-09-07 14:36:41 +0200 | MelodyOwO | (~MelodyOwO@user/MelodyOwO) MelodyOwO |
| 2025-09-07 14:36:48 +0200 | MelodyOwO | (~MelodyOwO@user/MelodyOwO) (Client Quit) |
| 2025-09-07 14:38:19 +0200 | vanishingideal | (~vanishing@user/vanishingideal) vanishingideal |