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2025-06-03 01:59:09 +0200 | <EvanR> | haskell type system could be construed as constructive: you start with nothing and can do nothing until you define new types, then you can create values according to the rules made so far, and that's it, until you define more types. In elixir's upcoming type system and typescript it's destructive. You start with a universe of possible values and the types divide the universe up into smaller and smaller subsets |
2025-06-03 01:59:48 +0200 | <EvanR> | in some blog somewhere they argue that the first way gives you more stuff and goes farther, though the second way would be nice to have |
2025-06-03 02:00:33 +0200 | <EvanR> | however now I'm wondering if they are even comparable because the universe is infinite, and dividing infinite space into infinite subspaces is not necessarily less |
2025-06-03 02:00:42 +0200 | <monochrom> | Does it say what is nice about the second way? |
2025-06-03 02:01:24 +0200 | <EvanR> | having the ability to control subtypes and restrict the values in a meticulous way, like liquid haskell |
2025-06-03 02:01:31 +0200 | <EvanR> | they say it would be nice |
2025-06-03 02:03:33 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-06-03 02:03:55 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-06-03 02:04:24 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
2025-06-03 02:05:22 +0200 | <EvanR> | @where typescript |
2025-06-03 02:05:23 +0200 | <lambdabot> | I know nothing about typescript. |
2025-06-03 02:06:35 +0200 | <monochrom> | I have trouble believing that elixir and typescript have refinement types (what liquid haskell does). (In my world they are called predicate subtypes.) |
2025-06-03 02:07:36 +0200 | <monochrom> | But I wouldn't be surprised if their "subtype" just means the OOP kind, i.e., row subtypes. (A subtype has more fields than the supertype.) |
2025-06-03 02:08:09 +0200 | <monochrom> | In that case, it's just "OOP would be nice". |
2025-06-03 02:09:25 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
2025-06-03 02:09:26 +0200 | <EvanR> | they can't divide integers up or floats |
2025-06-03 02:09:57 +0200 | <EvanR> | but they can divide e.g. list of a into non-empty list of a and general list of a |
2025-06-03 02:10:39 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-06-03 02:10:50 +0200 | <EvanR> | and list of a into list of integer, list of float |
2025-06-03 02:11:04 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-06-03 02:11:24 +0200 | <EvanR> | and through "intersection types" they can divide functions up in weird ways |
2025-06-03 02:12:05 +0200 | <EvanR> | so it goes beyond row types |
2025-06-03 02:13:42 +0200 | <EvanR> | e.g. a function which accepts int or bool and returns string "has type" intersection of int->string and bool->string |
2025-06-03 02:16:42 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
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2025-06-03 02:17:39 +0200 | jmcantrell | (~weechat@user/jmcantrell) jmcantrell |
2025-06-03 02:20:11 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
2025-06-03 02:22:19 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <magic_rb> Scala does something like that with functions in regards to subtypes. Uh |
2025-06-03 02:22:44 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <magic_rb> There was a term for it, when youre doing generics there, you specify [A+] i think? |
2025-06-03 02:23:09 +0200 | Tuplanolla | (~Tuplanoll@91-159-69-59.elisa-laajakaista.fi) (Quit: Leaving.) |
2025-06-03 02:23:17 +0200 | <monochrom> | covariant, contravariant, invariant |
2025-06-03 02:23:23 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <magic_rb> Exactly |
2025-06-03 02:23:26 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <magic_rb> Thanks |
2025-06-03 02:23:41 +0200 | <EvanR> | looks like I might even be wrong about dividing up the basic types. You could do something like, a type which means exactly some string |
2025-06-03 02:23:55 +0200 | swistak | (~swistak@185.21.216.141) (Quit: bye bye) |
2025-06-03 02:23:58 +0200 | <EvanR> | then union several of these together to get only string1, string2, or string3 |
2025-06-03 02:24:14 +0200 | swistak | (~swistak@185.21.216.141) |
2025-06-03 02:24:14 +0200 | <EvanR> | which is a subtype of the type of "any string" |
2025-06-03 02:24:18 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <magic_rb> We learned that during a course in uni, just forgot the name. But yeah say "Int | Float" is a superclass of "Int" and also of "Float" than in scala it would work with the functions |
2025-06-03 02:24:26 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
2025-06-03 02:24:44 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <magic_rb> *than -> then |
2025-06-03 02:24:47 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-06-03 02:25:27 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
2025-06-03 02:25:41 +0200 | <EvanR> | Int and Float being subtypes of Int|Float definitely makes more sense than one of them being a subtype of the other |
2025-06-03 02:25:45 +0200 | <monochrom> | In most languages, unlike Haskell, string is a basic type, too. :) |
2025-06-03 02:26:37 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <magic_rb> Like, int is a subtype of float, but encoding that in a programming language is yikes |
2025-06-03 02:26:47 +0200 | <EvanR> | no it is notttttttt |
2025-06-03 02:26:56 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <magic_rb> Assuming infinite size |
2025-06-03 02:27:03 +0200 | <EvanR> | infinite size what, int? xD |
2025-06-03 02:27:12 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <magic_rb> Both :P |
2025-06-03 02:27:18 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <magic_rb> So i guess i mean integral and real |
2025-06-03 02:27:27 +0200 | <EvanR> | infinite float is pretty rare compared to int |
2025-06-03 02:27:33 +0200 | <monochrom> | I can agree that 32-bit int is a subtype of 64-bit double-precision float. >:) |
2025-06-03 02:27:44 +0200 | <EvanR> | that checks |
2025-06-03 02:28:08 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <magic_rb> Well yes, which is why i said if you look at the math side, infinitely sized ints are subtypes of floats. But encoding that in a programming language is yikes :P |
2025-06-03 02:28:37 +0200 | <EvanR> | Z "is a subset of" reals... this is also yikes xD |
2025-06-03 02:28:37 +0200 | <monochrom> | If you say "float" then it is finite size. |
2025-06-03 02:29:26 +0200 | ljdarj1 | (~Thunderbi@user/ljdarj) ljdarj |
2025-06-03 02:29:26 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <magic_rb> Its 2am, ill excuse my shitty terminology on account of that |
2025-06-03 02:29:32 +0200 | <EvanR> | there's an order preserving or monoid preserving or ring preserving function from Z to R |
2025-06-03 02:29:54 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <magic_rb> EvanR how so? On the also yikes part |
2025-06-03 02:30:01 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <magic_rb> In my head it checks out |
2025-06-03 02:30:07 +0200 | <EvanR> | but that's getting away with this "one universe" theory of dynamic languages |
2025-06-03 02:30:13 +0200 | <EvanR> | getting away from |
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2025-06-03 02:31:26 +0200 | <monochrom> | I thought the whole point of a one-universe theory is that Z can be safely a subset of R! |
2025-06-03 02:31:38 +0200 | <EvanR> | yeah |
2025-06-03 02:31:49 +0200 | <monochrom> | (And both being subsets of the one universe.) |
2025-06-03 02:31:59 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <magic_rb> Im lost, im gonna go sleep, im too tired for this discussion i think |
2025-06-03 02:32:02 +0200 | <EvanR> | in the chaotic period of 1920s math the one universe theory didn't yet win the debate |
2025-06-03 02:32:05 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <magic_rb> Gn |
2025-06-03 02:32:26 +0200 | <EvanR> | everything was separate unless you could prove an inclusion or isomorphism |
2025-06-03 02:32:30 +0200 | <monochrom> | (And OK we have to s/set/something else/ lest a Russell paradox arises.) |
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2025-06-03 02:33:19 +0200 | ljdarj | (~Thunderbi@user/ljdarj) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
2025-06-03 02:33:19 +0200 | ljdarj1 | ljdarj |
2025-06-03 02:33:53 +0200 | califax | (~califax@user/califx) califx |
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2025-06-03 02:37:08 +0200 | <EvanR> | additive synthesis, first you create N then using it create Z then ... eventually get R. subtractive synthesis, just say Z or R is this or that subset of surreals xD |
2025-06-03 02:37:43 +0200 | <EvanR> | using schema of specification |
2025-06-03 02:38:06 +0200 | <monochrom> | If you dig deeper, eventually it is just "is math invented or discovered" again. |
2025-06-03 02:40:05 +0200 | <EvanR> | also is it dependent on or independent of logic |
2025-06-03 02:40:25 +0200 | <EvanR> | or vice versa |
2025-06-03 02:40:46 +0200 | <monochrom> | Whenever you think, you use some kind of logic. |
2025-06-03 02:40:57 +0200 | <monochrom> | If you don't think, then WTF are you doing?! |
2025-06-03 02:41:46 +0200 | <EvanR> | then you're an LLM |
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2025-06-03 02:44:04 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-06-03 02:44:59 +0200 | peterbecich | (~Thunderbi@syn-047-229-123-186.res.spectrum.com) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
2025-06-03 02:48:09 +0200 | Guest74 | (~Guest74@2605:a601:a88f:0:981e:3b52:4ed8:7c43) |
2025-06-03 02:50:56 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-06-03 02:51:18 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-06-03 02:54:00 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
2025-06-03 02:56:58 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-06-03 02:57:20 +0200 | humasect | (~humasect@dyn-192-249-132-90.nexicom.net) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-06-03 02:57:23 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-06-03 02:58:44 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
2025-06-03 03:01:18 +0200 | xff0x | (~xff0x@ai083248.d.east.v6connect.net) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
2025-06-03 03:01:38 +0200 | ljdarj | (~Thunderbi@user/ljdarj) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) |
2025-06-03 03:03:10 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-06-03 03:03:36 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-06-03 03:06:07 +0200 | paotsaq | (~paotsaq@127.209.37.188.rev.vodafone.pt) paotsaq |
2025-06-03 03:06:24 +0200 | qaotsap | (~paotsaq@2001:818:ea0e:8300:6733:50c0:6d2:30c2) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
2025-06-03 03:06:25 +0200 | Guest74 | (~Guest74@2605:a601:a88f:0:981e:3b52:4ed8:7c43) (Quit: Client closed) |
2025-06-03 03:09:22 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-06-03 03:09:45 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-06-03 03:09:46 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
2025-06-03 03:14:31 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
2025-06-03 03:17:06 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-06-03 03:17:28 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-06-03 03:21:14 +0200 | yin | (~z@user/zero) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
2025-06-03 03:21:32 +0200 | Frostillicus | (~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) |
2025-06-03 03:24:24 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-06-03 03:24:48 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-06-03 03:25:34 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
2025-06-03 03:26:05 +0200 | yin | (~z@user/zero) zero |
2025-06-03 03:27:09 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-06-03 03:27:37 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-06-03 03:28:30 +0200 | humasect | (~humasect@dyn-192-249-132-90.nexicom.net) humasect |
2025-06-03 03:30:29 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
2025-06-03 03:33:22 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-06-03 03:33:44 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-06-03 03:36:13 +0200 | humasect | (~humasect@dyn-192-249-132-90.nexicom.net) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
2025-06-03 03:41:08 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-06-03 03:41:22 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
2025-06-03 03:41:31 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-06-03 03:46:25 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
2025-06-03 03:49:13 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-06-03 03:49:37 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-06-03 03:55:45 +0200 | Frostillicus | (~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
2025-06-03 03:57:09 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
2025-06-03 03:57:28 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-06-03 03:57:53 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-06-03 04:02:04 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
2025-06-03 04:03:29 +0200 | j1n37 | (~j1n37@user/j1n37) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
2025-06-03 04:04:25 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-06-03 04:04:51 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-06-03 04:09:09 +0200 | j1n37 | (~j1n37@user/j1n37) j1n37 |
2025-06-03 04:10:02 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
2025-06-03 04:10:11 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
2025-06-03 04:10:25 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-06-03 04:15:23 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
2025-06-03 04:17:30 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-06-03 04:17:52 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-06-03 04:21:11 +0200 | machinedgod | (~machinedg@d108-173-18-100.abhsia.telus.net) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
2025-06-03 04:23:13 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-06-03 04:23:37 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-06-03 04:25:57 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
2025-06-03 04:28:23 +0200 | humasect | (~humasect@dyn-192-249-132-90.nexicom.net) humasect |
2025-06-03 04:29:13 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-06-03 04:29:40 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-06-03 04:30:49 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
2025-06-03 04:33:30 +0200 | humasect | (~humasect@dyn-192-249-132-90.nexicom.net) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
2025-06-03 04:33:43 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-06-03 04:34:10 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-06-03 04:41:18 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-06-03 04:41:29 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
2025-06-03 04:41:41 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-06-03 04:46:25 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
2025-06-03 04:47:04 +0200 | down200 | (~down200@shell.lug.mtu.edu) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
2025-06-03 04:47:07 +0200 | down200- | (~down200@shell.lug.mtu.edu) down200 |
2025-06-03 04:47:43 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-06-03 04:48:07 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-06-03 04:51:51 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-06-03 04:52:15 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-06-03 04:56:49 +0200 | td_ | (~td@i53870908.versanet.de) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
2025-06-03 04:57:16 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
2025-06-03 04:58:17 +0200 | td_ | (~td@i53870931.versanet.de) td_ |
2025-06-03 04:58:22 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
2025-06-03 04:58:46 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-06-03 05:01:59 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
2025-06-03 05:04:30 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-06-03 05:04:54 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-06-03 05:11:22 +0200 | xff0x | (~xff0x@fsb6a9491c.tkyc517.ap.nuro.jp) |
2025-06-03 05:11:28 +0200 | tavare | (~tavare@user/tavare) tavare |
2025-06-03 05:12:01 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-06-03 05:12:20 +0200 | tavare | (~tavare@user/tavare) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-06-03 05:12:24 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-06-03 05:13:04 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
2025-06-03 05:19:03 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-06-03 05:19:28 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-06-03 05:20:13 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
2025-06-03 05:25:31 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-06-03 05:25:55 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-06-03 05:31:00 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-06-03 05:31:07 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
2025-06-03 05:31:21 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-06-03 05:33:34 +0200 | trickard | (~trickard@cpe-51-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
2025-06-03 05:33:48 +0200 | trickard | (~trickard@cpe-51-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) |
2025-06-03 05:35:47 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
2025-06-03 05:38:03 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-06-03 05:38:26 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-06-03 05:43:52 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-06-03 05:44:13 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-06-03 05:46:55 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
2025-06-03 05:51:39 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
2025-06-03 05:52:07 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-06-03 05:52:32 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-06-03 05:59:04 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-06-03 05:59:28 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-06-03 06:02:30 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
2025-06-03 06:06:18 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-06-03 06:06:44 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-06-03 06:07:13 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
2025-06-03 06:14:03 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-06-03 06:14:26 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-06-03 06:18:55 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-06-03 06:19:17 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-06-03 06:20:14 +0200 | peterbecich | (~Thunderbi@syn-047-229-123-186.res.spectrum.com) peterbecich |
2025-06-03 06:23:18 +0200 | peterbecich | (~Thunderbi@syn-047-229-123-186.res.spectrum.com) (Client Quit) |
2025-06-03 06:23:53 +0200 | peterbecich | (~Thunderbi@syn-047-229-123-186.res.spectrum.com) peterbecich |
2025-06-03 06:25:51 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-06-03 06:26:16 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-06-03 06:26:55 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
2025-06-03 06:26:55 +0200 | trickard | (~trickard@cpe-51-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
2025-06-03 06:27:09 +0200 | trickard | (~trickard@cpe-51-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) |
2025-06-03 06:31:55 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) |
2025-06-03 06:33:07 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-06-03 06:33:30 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-06-03 06:38:22 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-06-03 06:38:45 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-06-03 06:42:41 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
2025-06-03 06:43:30 +0200 | remmie | (ianremsen@tilde.team) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
2025-06-03 06:43:57 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-06-03 06:44:22 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-06-03 06:46:43 +0200 | vulpine | (~xfnw@user/meow/xfnw) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) |
2025-06-03 06:47:20 +0200 | bitdex | (~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-06-03 06:47:50 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
2025-06-03 06:47:51 +0200 | bitdex | (~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex) bitdex |
2025-06-03 06:48:23 +0200 | vulpine | (~xfnw@user/meow/xfnw) xfnw |
2025-06-03 06:50:18 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-06-03 06:50:39 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-06-03 06:54:31 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-06-03 06:54:56 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-06-03 06:58:07 +0200 | Lord_of_Life_ | (~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915) Lord_of_Life |
2025-06-03 06:58:28 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
2025-06-03 06:58:48 +0200 | Lord_of_Life | (~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
2025-06-03 06:59:01 +0200 | harveypwca | (~harveypwc@2601:246:d080:f6e0:27d6:8cc7:eca9:c46c) (Quit: Leaving) |
2025-06-03 06:59:14 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-06-03 06:59:28 +0200 | Digit | (~user@user/digit) Digit |
2025-06-03 06:59:29 +0200 | Lord_of_Life_ | Lord_of_Life |
2025-06-03 06:59:37 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-06-03 07:03:35 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
2025-06-03 07:04:00 +0200 | Digit | digitteknohippie |
2025-06-03 07:06:35 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-06-03 07:07:02 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-06-03 07:12:12 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
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2025-06-03 09:34:55 +0200 | fp | (~Thunderbi@hof1.kyla.fi) fp |
2025-06-03 09:37:46 +0200 | sord937 | (~sord937@gateway/tor-sasl/sord937) sord937 |
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2025-06-03 09:38:56 +0200 | emmanuelux | (~emmanuelu@user/emmanuelux) (Quit: au revoir) |
2025-06-03 09:40:42 +0200 | <hellwolf> | is it possible to "repl" load a snippets of String/Text, and catch a compilation error in an IO? |
2025-06-03 09:40:59 +0200 | <hellwolf> | a very brief thought on how to test intended type errors in a test framework. |
2025-06-03 09:41:18 +0200 | kuribas | (~user@ip-188-118-57-242.reverse.destiny.be) |
2025-06-03 09:41:19 +0200 | <hellwolf> | surely if GHCi can do, we could replicate that, right? |
2025-06-03 09:41:22 +0200 | <dminuoso> | hellwolf: ghc is available as an API. |
2025-06-03 09:41:45 +0200 | <hellwolf> | is such a test framework exist? (really dont' want to rebuild another wheel, I got my hands full) |
2025-06-03 09:42:01 +0200 | <dminuoso> | hellwolf: Yes, its called ghc-lib. |
2025-06-03 09:42:21 +0200 | tromp | (~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:7d34:d696:3458:218b) |
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2025-06-03 09:44:15 +0200 | <dminuoso> | https://hackage.haskell.org/package/ghc-9.12.1/docs/GHC.html#v:parseModule and followingn typecheckModule |
2025-06-03 09:44:18 +0200 | trickard | (~trickard@cpe-51-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
2025-06-03 09:44:31 +0200 | <dminuoso> | (ghc-lib has the equivalent exports, but for some reason the haddock is missing on hackage) |
2025-06-03 09:45:56 +0200 | xff0x | (~xff0x@fsb6a9491c.tkyc517.ap.nuro.jp) |
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2025-06-03 09:55:48 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@77.242.116.146) merijn |
2025-06-03 09:57:01 +0200 | trickard | (~trickard@cpe-51-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) |
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2025-06-03 10:03:11 +0200 | <hellwolf> | Okay, that changes things. I will look into it some day. I would still be surprised it's not how one should generally test type errors. |
2025-06-03 10:03:33 +0200 | <dminuoso> | What do you mean you would be surprised? |
2025-06-03 10:03:49 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-06-03 10:04:11 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-06-03 10:04:50 +0200 | <dminuoso> | hellwolf: Alternatively you could invoke GHC as a binary and use -fdiagnostics-as-json |
2025-06-03 10:05:44 +0200 | <dminuoso> | It's a bit less tightly coupled and might be easier to use. |
2025-06-03 10:07:05 +0200 | machinedgod | (~machinedg@d108-173-18-100.abhsia.telus.net) machinedgod |
2025-06-03 10:07:54 +0200 | <lortabac> | **some** tests can also be performed with the Data.Type.Equality machinery |
2025-06-03 10:08:35 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-06-03 10:08:59 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-06-03 10:09:15 +0200 | <lortabac> | there is also shelltest |
2025-06-03 10:09:44 +0200 | <lortabac> | I have used it in one of my projects for this exact purpose |
2025-06-03 10:10:17 +0200 | <hellwolf> | I wonder if you use Unsatisfiable, would you be able to test if instance selection falls to the unsatisiable one. |
2025-06-03 10:10:56 +0200 | <lortabac> | https://github.com/lortabac/parameters/blob/master/.github/workflows/haskell.yml#L53 |
2025-06-03 10:12:46 +0200 | <lortabac> | https://github.com/simonmichael/shelltestrunner |
2025-06-03 10:15:27 +0200 | Lycurgus | (~juan@user/Lycurgus) (Quit: irc.renjuan.org (juan@acm.org)) |
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2025-06-03 10:18:30 +0200 | <dminuoso> | hellwolf: Just to give more perspectives, GHC does these golden tests by having a python based test driver https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/tree/master/testsuite/driver and then keeping the testcases + expected stderr next to each other: https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/tree/master/testsuite/tests/typecheck/should_fail |
2025-06-03 10:18:39 +0200 | <dminuoso> | Loads of options |
2025-06-03 10:19:39 +0200 | fp | (~Thunderbi@hof1.kyla.fi) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) |
2025-06-03 10:19:44 +0200 | <dminuoso> | One thing I would keep in mind, if you do not use ghc-lib and invoke ghc as a binary instead, you should tightly control the version as error output can change across GHC versions. |
2025-06-03 10:19:58 +0200 | <dminuoso> | Or use ghc-lib with tight bounds. |
2025-06-03 10:20:26 +0200 | sawilagar | (~sawilagar@user/sawilagar) sawilagar |
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2025-06-03 10:25:39 +0200 | <Leary> | `-fdiagnostics-as-json` should be stable enough so long as you only check the fields you actually need to care about. |
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2025-06-03 11:27:05 +0200 | Co0kie | (~Jura@2a02:8071:64e1:da0:5a47:caff:fe78:33db) CiaoSen |
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2025-06-03 11:33:37 +0200 | fp | (~Thunderbi@2001:708:20:1406::10c5) fp |
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2025-06-03 11:37:15 +0200 | __monty__ | (~toonn@user/toonn) toonn |
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2025-06-03 11:43:45 +0200 | <hellwolf> | dminuoso: thanks, I will look into it. Perhaps during zurihac's friday session. |
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2025-06-03 11:45:37 +0200 | haskellbridge | (~hackager@syn-096-028-224-255.res.spectrum.com) hackager |
2025-06-03 11:45:37 +0200 | ChanServ | +v haskellbridge |
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2025-06-03 12:02:51 +0200 | <Unhammer> | woah, clean build time went down from 2m20 to 1m30 when upgrading 9.2.8 to 9.6.7 that's Amazing |
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2025-06-03 12:03:38 +0200 | <Unhammer> | (and I see from git logs that 8.8.4 took it from 3m→2m30s) |
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2025-06-03 12:19:25 +0200 | Eoco | (~ian@128.101.131.218) Eoco |
2025-06-03 12:20:18 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | yay ghc :) |
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2025-06-03 12:41:35 +0200 | fp | (~Thunderbi@wireless-86-50-140-9.open.aalto.fi) fp |
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2025-06-03 12:45:41 +0200 | tinjamin4 | (~tinjamin@banshee.h4x0r.space) |
2025-06-03 12:47:38 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <magic_rb> Im getting evil ideas about scripting in my little game im making, and i could maybe use https://hackage.haskell.org/package/plugins-1.6.2.1 but i wonder if this produces machine code or bytecode and interprets it |
2025-06-03 12:49:46 +0200 | tinjamin4 | (~tinjamin@banshee.h4x0r.space) (Client Quit) |
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2025-06-03 12:50:04 +0200 | fp | (~Thunderbi@wireless-86-50-140-9.open.aalto.fi) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
2025-06-03 12:50:14 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-06-03 12:50:54 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | magic_rb: seems to compile by calling ghc on the command line, and then load in the resulting .o |
2025-06-03 12:51:16 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <magic_rb> And if using hint? That would then be interpreted i think |
2025-06-03 12:51:27 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | think so, yes |
2025-06-03 12:51:36 +0200 | tinjamin4 | (~tinjamin@banshee.h4x0r.space) |
2025-06-03 12:51:46 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <magic_rb> I wonder if i can ship ghc with my game :P |
2025-06-03 12:52:23 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <magic_rb> (I should just use lua or make a simple lisp) |
2025-06-03 12:52:37 +0200 | lortabac | (~lortabac@2a01:e0a:541:b8f0:55ab:e185:7f81:54a4) lortabac |
2025-06-03 12:52:38 +0200 | fp | (~Thunderbi@2001:708:20:1406::10c5) fp |
2025-06-03 12:53:04 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | $ du -hd0 ~/.ghcup/ghc/9.8.4 |
2025-06-03 12:53:06 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | 2.7G /home/tom/.ghcup/ghc/9.8.4 |
2025-06-03 12:53:15 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <magic_rb> Oof |
2025-06-03 12:53:21 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <magic_rb> Maybe not |
2025-06-03 12:53:29 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | now this includes profiling libs and documentation |
2025-06-03 12:53:35 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | but a pruned install is still _large_ |
2025-06-03 12:53:35 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <magic_rb> I could use a small c compiler and microhs maybe |
2025-06-03 12:53:41 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | microhs, or hugs |
2025-06-03 12:53:50 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | if you can get hugs to work |
2025-06-03 12:54:50 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
2025-06-03 12:55:02 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <magic_rb> Or just a simple lisp |
2025-06-03 12:55:16 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-06-03 12:55:22 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | build your own! it's fun |
2025-06-03 12:56:10 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <magic_rb> Possibly |
2025-06-03 12:56:39 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <magic_rb> I need like 10 data types, basic control flow and operations on those data types. Its for an ECS so not complex |
2025-06-03 12:57:00 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | as long as you don't need the combination of type inference and polymorphic user functions, it's all easy enough |
2025-06-03 13:00:05 +0200 | caconym7 | (~caconym@user/caconym) (Quit: bye) |
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2025-06-03 13:07:33 +0200 | pavonia | (~user@user/siracusa) (Quit: Bye!) |
2025-06-03 13:09:43 +0200 | cyphase | (~cyphase@user/cyphase) cyphase |
2025-06-03 13:09:46 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-06-03 13:10:13 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-06-03 13:14:49 +0200 | xff0x | (~xff0x@2405:6580:b080:900:5804:5ca6:1e75:4ee1) |