IRCBrowse

2025/05/22

2025-05-22 00:01:38 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2025-05-22 00:04:44 +0200sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-05-22 00:05:02 +0200peterbecich(~Thunderbi@syn-047-229-123-186.res.spectrum.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-05-22 00:05:06 +0200sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2025-05-22 00:06:45 +0200tromp(~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:38c8:fba4:4821:1856) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2025-05-22 00:07:40 +0200__monty__(~toonn@user/toonn) (Quit: leaving)
2025-05-22 00:08:22 +0200xff0x(~xff0x@om126236151042.32.openmobile.ne.jp)
2025-05-22 00:10:01 +0200bitdex(~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex) (Quit: = "")
2025-05-22 00:11:47 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-05-22 00:11:47 +0200sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-05-22 00:12:10 +0200sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2025-05-22 00:12:10 +0200bitdex(~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex) bitdex
2025-05-22 00:18:17 +0200sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-05-22 00:18:36 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2025-05-22 00:18:39 +0200sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2025-05-22 00:24:48 +0200sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2025-05-22 00:25:10 +0200sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2025-05-22 00:29:30 +0200acidjnk(~acidjnk@p200300d6e71c4f825c2f019940860a0f.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2025-05-22 00:29:51 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-05-22 00:31:39 +0200sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-05-22 00:32:06 +0200sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2025-05-22 00:34:05 +0200acidjnk(~acidjnk@p200300d6e71c4f82b1a7b7770d6278be.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) acidjnk
2025-05-22 00:35:21 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2025-05-22 00:40:37 +0200sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-05-22 00:41:01 +0200sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2025-05-22 00:45:37 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-05-22 00:48:42 +0200sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-05-22 00:49:05 +0200sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2025-05-22 00:50:24 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2025-05-22 00:50:47 +0200sprotte24(~sprotte24@p200300d16f0b63002079b83bc1fd6449.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2025-05-22 00:55:36 +0200Sgeo(~Sgeo@user/sgeo) Sgeo
2025-05-22 01:00:41 +0200sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-05-22 01:00:44 +0200notzmv(~daniel@user/notzmv) notzmv
2025-05-22 01:00:47 +0200poscat(~poscat@user/poscat) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-05-22 01:01:01 +0200sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2025-05-22 01:01:24 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-05-22 01:03:59 +0200poscat(~poscat@user/poscat) poscat
2025-05-22 01:05:55 +0200simon1(~simon@204.48.93.62) sim590
2025-05-22 01:06:30 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2025-05-22 01:07:06 +0200sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-05-22 01:07:27 +0200sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2025-05-22 01:07:49 +0200jmcantrell(~weechat@user/jmcantrell) jmcantrell
2025-05-22 01:10:29 +0200nicole(ilbelkyr@libera/staff/ilbelkyr) (Quit: :tiuQ)
2025-05-22 01:13:39 +0200sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-05-22 01:13:43 +0200j1n37-(~j1n37@user/j1n37) (Quit: Ich bin der Welt abhanden gekommen)
2025-05-22 01:14:02 +0200sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2025-05-22 01:15:09 +0200JuanDaugherty(~juan@user/JuanDaugherty) JuanDaugherty
2025-05-22 01:16:57 +0200Tuplanolla(~Tuplanoll@91-159-69-59.elisa-laajakaista.fi) (Quit: Leaving.)
2025-05-22 01:17:30 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-05-22 01:22:13 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2025-05-22 01:24:08 +0200sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-05-22 01:24:30 +0200sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2025-05-22 01:30:39 +0200sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-05-22 01:30:58 +0200sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2025-05-22 01:32:56 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-05-22 01:37:49 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2025-05-22 01:38:17 +0200sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-05-22 01:38:40 +0200sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2025-05-22 01:41:54 +0200acidjnk(~acidjnk@p200300d6e71c4f82b1a7b7770d6278be.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2025-05-22 01:43:50 +0200notzmv(~daniel@user/notzmv) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2025-05-22 01:45:09 +0200sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-05-22 01:45:30 +0200sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2025-05-22 01:47:07 +0200j1n37(~j1n37@user/j1n37) j1n37
2025-05-22 01:48:19 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-05-22 01:50:33 +0200sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-05-22 01:50:55 +0200sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2025-05-22 01:55:01 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2025-05-22 01:57:07 +0200sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-05-22 01:57:28 +0200sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2025-05-22 02:04:06 +0200jespada(~jespada@r179-25-104-223.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2025-05-22 02:05:46 +0200sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-05-22 02:06:07 +0200sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2025-05-22 02:06:23 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-05-22 02:09:53 +0200xff0x(~xff0x@om126236151042.32.openmobile.ne.jp) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2025-05-22 02:11:15 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2025-05-22 02:16:42 +0200sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-05-22 02:17:03 +0200sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2025-05-22 02:19:04 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-05-22 02:24:05 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2025-05-22 02:25:11 +0200sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-05-22 02:25:31 +0200sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2025-05-22 02:28:08 +0200notzmv(~daniel@user/notzmv) notzmv
2025-05-22 02:28:45 +0200philopsos(~caecilius@user/philopsos) (Quit: Lost terminal)
2025-05-22 02:31:40 +0200sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-05-22 02:31:41 +0200JamesMowery17(~JamesMowe@ip68-228-212-232.ph.ph.cox.net) JamesMowery
2025-05-22 02:32:01 +0200sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2025-05-22 02:34:53 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-05-22 02:38:38 +0200sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-05-22 02:39:02 +0200sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2025-05-22 02:39:28 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2025-05-22 02:44:42 +0200sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-05-22 02:45:04 +0200sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2025-05-22 02:49:33 +0200arahael(~arahael@user/arahael) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2025-05-22 02:50:22 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-05-22 02:51:33 +0200sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-05-22 02:51:57 +0200sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2025-05-22 02:55:13 +0200simon1(~simon@204.48.93.62) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2025-05-22 02:55:24 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2025-05-22 02:56:42 +0200sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-05-22 02:57:04 +0200sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2025-05-22 03:02:48 +0200sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-05-22 03:03:08 +0200sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2025-05-22 03:06:11 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-05-22 03:11:17 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2025-05-22 03:11:37 +0200sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-05-22 03:12:00 +0200sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2025-05-22 03:16:39 +0200tomku(~tomku@user/tomku) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2025-05-22 03:16:41 +0200tomku|two(~tomku@user/tomku) tomku
2025-05-22 03:18:10 +0200sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-05-22 03:18:21 +0200tolgo(~Thunderbi@199.115.144.130)
2025-05-22 03:18:31 +0200sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2025-05-22 03:19:35 +0200xff0x(~xff0x@fsb6a9491c.tkyc517.ap.nuro.jp)
2025-05-22 03:21:56 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-05-22 03:25:26 +0200sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-05-22 03:25:47 +0200sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2025-05-22 03:26:58 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2025-05-22 03:31:55 +0200sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-05-22 03:32:15 +0200sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2025-05-22 03:34:36 +0200arahael(~arahael@user/arahael) arahael
2025-05-22 03:35:29 +0200ljdarj(~Thunderbi@user/ljdarj) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2025-05-22 03:37:44 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-05-22 03:38:44 +0200sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-05-22 03:39:06 +0200sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2025-05-22 03:42:09 +0200tolgo(~Thunderbi@199.115.144.130) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2025-05-22 03:42:22 +0200sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-05-22 03:42:39 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2025-05-22 03:42:43 +0200sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2025-05-22 03:47:16 +0200notzmv(~daniel@user/notzmv) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-05-22 03:48:59 +0200sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-05-22 03:49:23 +0200sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2025-05-22 03:53:24 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-05-22 03:56:00 +0200sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-05-22 03:56:22 +0200sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2025-05-22 03:57:17 +0200craunts7(~craunts@136.158.8.87)
2025-05-22 03:58:48 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2025-05-22 04:03:00 +0200sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-05-22 04:03:22 +0200sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2025-05-22 04:04:40 +0200mange(~user@user/mange) mange
2025-05-22 04:09:12 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-05-22 04:10:22 +0200sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-05-22 04:10:43 +0200sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2025-05-22 04:14:15 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2025-05-22 04:17:09 +0200sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-05-22 04:17:32 +0200sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2025-05-22 04:18:08 +0200Square(~Square4@user/square) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2025-05-22 04:23:23 +0200sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-05-22 04:23:44 +0200sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2025-05-22 04:24:58 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-05-22 04:28:19 +0200ttybitnik(~ttybitnik@user/wolper) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-05-22 04:30:15 +0200sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-05-22 04:30:39 +0200sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2025-05-22 04:31:49 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2025-05-22 04:34:39 +0200djmetzle(~djmetzle@syn-141-126-079-209.res.spectrum.com)
2025-05-22 04:38:26 +0200sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-05-22 04:38:49 +0200sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2025-05-22 04:42:49 +0200haritz(~hrtz@user/haritz) (Quit: ZNC 1.8.2+deb3.1+deb12u1 - https://znc.in)
2025-05-22 04:43:01 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-05-22 04:44:54 +0200djmetzle(~djmetzle@syn-141-126-079-209.res.spectrum.com) (Changing host)
2025-05-22 04:44:54 +0200djmetzle(~djmetzle@user/djmetzle) djmetzle
2025-05-22 04:46:01 +0200sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-05-22 04:46:25 +0200sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2025-05-22 04:47:49 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2025-05-22 04:54:07 +0200sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-05-22 04:54:29 +0200sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2025-05-22 04:58:50 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-05-22 05:00:17 +0200sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-05-22 05:00:46 +0200sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2025-05-22 05:03:20 +0200troydm(~troydm@user/troydm) troydm
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2025-05-22 07:23:55 +0200hsw(~hsw@112-104-12-126.adsl.dynamic.seed.net.tw) hsw
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2025-05-22 07:52:09 +0200jmcantrell(~weechat@user/jmcantrell) jmcantrell
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2025-05-22 08:12:05 +0200notzmv(~daniel@user/notzmv) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2025-05-22 08:16:02 +0200 <[exa]> Is there a good way to link a binary file into a haskell executable somewhat conveniently, ideally with cabal?
2025-05-22 08:17:12 +0200 <[exa]> rough ways include: 1] `sed`ing the file binary contents into a .hs file that exports a bytestring or array or such, 2] converting to binary object with libtool, linking it and recovering with dlsym later
2025-05-22 08:17:28 +0200 <[exa]> (notably both are suboptimal)
2025-05-22 08:18:32 +0200sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2025-05-22 08:39:27 +0200Sgeo(~Sgeo@user/sgeo) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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2025-05-22 08:41:26 +0200peterbecich(~Thunderbi@syn-047-229-123-186.res.spectrum.com) peterbecich
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2025-05-22 08:51:50 +0200 <mauke> [exa]: hack: template haskell
2025-05-22 08:52:02 +0200sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2025-05-22 08:54:43 +0200yaroot(~yaroot@p3747022-ipxg13101souka.saitama.ocn.ne.jp) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-05-22 08:55:24 +0200yaroot(~yaroot@p3747022-ipxg13101souka.saitama.ocn.ne.jp) yaroot
2025-05-22 08:58:56 +0200sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2025-05-22 08:59:18 +0200sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2025-05-22 09:00:04 +0200caconym7(~caconym@user/caconym) (Quit: bye)
2025-05-22 09:00:15 +0200lortabac(~lortabac@2a01:e0a:541:b8f0:55ab:e185:7f81:54a4) lortabac
2025-05-22 09:00:19 +0200takuan(~takuan@d8D86B601.access.telenet.be)
2025-05-22 09:00:44 +0200caconym7(~caconym@user/caconym) caconym
2025-05-22 09:01:22 +0200xff0x(~xff0x@fsb6a9491c.tkyc517.ap.nuro.jp) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2025-05-22 09:03:22 +0200xff0x(~xff0x@fsb6a9491c.tkyc517.ap.nuro.jp)
2025-05-22 09:03:52 +0200 <jackdk> [exa]: https://hackage.haskell.org/package/file-embed ?
2025-05-22 09:06:06 +0200sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-05-22 09:06:27 +0200sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2025-05-22 09:07:08 +0200ft(~ft@p3e9bc106.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Quit: leaving)
2025-05-22 09:10:53 +0200sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2025-05-22 09:12:31 +0200 <haskellbridge> <sm> 👆️
2025-05-22 09:16:58 +0200sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-05-22 09:17:21 +0200sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2025-05-22 09:22:58 +0200sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-05-22 09:23:21 +0200sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2025-05-22 09:26:13 +0200olliep(~ollie@2a0a:ef40:19e:b02:5d0c:f940:8a95:8cf3)
2025-05-22 09:28:14 +0200 <[exa]> oh, it's called "embed"
2025-05-22 09:28:16 +0200 <[exa]> stupid me.
2025-05-22 09:28:21 +0200 <[exa]> jackdk: thanks a lot!
2025-05-22 09:30:00 +0200sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2025-05-22 09:30:23 +0200sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2025-05-22 09:31:45 +0200fp(~Thunderbi@2001:708:20:1406::10c5) fp
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2025-05-22 09:38:36 +0200peterbecich(~Thunderbi@syn-047-229-123-186.res.spectrum.com) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2025-05-22 09:39:55 +0200mange(~user@user/mange) (Quit: Quittin' time!)
2025-05-22 09:42:56 +0200sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2025-05-22 09:46:02 +0200Frostillicus(~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net)
2025-05-22 09:46:35 +0200Frostillicus(~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) (Client Quit)
2025-05-22 09:46:50 +0200Frostillicus(~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net)
2025-05-22 09:49:38 +0200 <[exa]> If one asks `cabal list-bin` for the path on windows, does it need to supply the `.exe` suffix for it to work?
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2025-05-22 09:53:13 +0200acidjnk(~acidjnk@p200300d6e71c4f682546f7058506d513.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) acidjnk
2025-05-22 09:54:45 +0200merijn(~merijn@77.242.116.146) merijn
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2025-05-22 09:55:40 +0200CiaoSen(~Jura@2a02:8071:64e1:da0:5a47:caff:fe78:33db) CiaoSen
2025-05-22 09:56:20 +0200olliep(~ollie@2a0a:ef40:19e:b02:5d0c:f940:8a95:8cf3) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2025-05-22 09:57:22 +0200 <tomsmeding> well it gives a path to a binary, so whatever ghc puts on the binary name, right?
2025-05-22 09:57:42 +0200machinedgod(~machinedg@d108-173-18-100.abhsia.telus.net) machinedgod
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2025-05-22 10:11:17 +0200 <[exa]> tomsmeding: no I meant, if I have "executable abc", is it going to behave like `which` requiring `cabal list-bin abc.exe` or is `cabal list-bin abc` going to work?
2025-05-22 10:11:36 +0200 <[exa]> (note: I don't have a windows machine anywhere nearby. :D )
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2025-05-22 10:23:16 +0200 <tomsmeding> [exa]: cabal list-bin takes component names
2025-05-22 10:23:20 +0200 <tomsmeding> not executable file names
2025-05-22 10:23:28 +0200 <tomsmeding> you can go `cabal list-bin package:exe:exename`
2025-05-22 10:24:01 +0200 <[exa]> uh ok that might be very useful
2025-05-22 10:24:04 +0200 <tomsmeding> `cabal exec` may need the .exe if relevant
2025-05-22 10:25:06 +0200merijn(~merijn@77.242.116.146) merijn
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2025-05-22 10:37:13 +0200kuribas(~user@ip-188-118-57-242.reverse.destiny.be) kuribas
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2025-05-22 10:46:37 +0200__monty__(~toonn@user/toonn) toonn
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2025-05-22 10:50:48 +0200fp(~Thunderbi@2001:708:20:1406::10c5) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2025-05-22 10:50:53 +0200 <hellwolf> The amount of time I am trying to provide a tupleN syntax for something fundamentally recursively defined product type is getting rediculous. I should search through ghc proposals if there is a a syntax extension for that.
2025-05-22 10:50:53 +0200 <hellwolf> The pain is mostly around the injectivity: with NP it has much better type inference experience, but with TupleN, it's easily hampered. Not sure I can explain myself without an example.
2025-05-22 10:51:11 +0200 <hellwolf> is it really that different typing (a, b, c) than a :* b :* c :* Nil
2025-05-22 10:51:27 +0200 <hellwolf> coders be damned.
2025-05-22 10:53:13 +0200 <hellwolf> "How I learned to stop worrying and love the NP."
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2025-05-22 10:59:09 +0200 <kuribas> In idris2, tuples are inductive, (a, b, c) is just syntax for (a, (b, c))
2025-05-22 11:00:44 +0200 <kuribas> It sucks in Generics, that product types are a tree, rather than a simple inductive list.
2025-05-22 11:01:32 +0200Leary. o O ( `data a , b = a , b; infixr 0 ,` )
2025-05-22 11:01:34 +0200comerijn(~merijn@77.242.116.146) merijn
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2025-05-22 11:04:31 +0200 <hellwolf> GHC proposal, {-# LANGUAGE InductiveTuple #-} (| a, b, c |)
2025-05-22 11:05:05 +0200 <hellwolf> but why, a :* b :* c :* Nil. I am so conflicted, and hating wasted time on this.
2025-05-22 11:05:07 +0200merijn(~merijn@77.242.116.146) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2025-05-22 11:06:02 +0200 <kuribas> (a, (b, (c, ())))
2025-05-22 11:06:32 +0200 <kuribas> hellwolf: is this generics?
2025-05-22 11:09:12 +0200 <__monty__> That would make the Functor instance on inductive tuples quite toothless, no?
2025-05-22 11:10:46 +0200 <Leary> hellwolf: Either choose an arbitrary single character alias for `:*` or write a variadic `tup a b c ...` function. Then, forget about tuples for evermore.
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2025-05-22 11:11:23 +0200 <kuribas> hmm, functor doesn't work on >2 tuples in idris2.
2025-05-22 11:11:32 +0200 <kuribas> It maps over the nested tuple.
2025-05-22 11:12:10 +0200Frostillicus(~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net)
2025-05-22 11:12:54 +0200 <hellwolf> let me try variadic. one more attempt to make type inferrence work
2025-05-22 11:13:11 +0200 <hellwolf> * make type inference happy
2025-05-22 11:13:32 +0200haritz(~hrtz@2a01:4b00:bc2e:7000:d5af:a266:ca31:5ef8)
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2025-05-22 11:13:32 +0200haritz(~hrtz@user/haritz) haritz
2025-05-22 11:14:20 +0200 <__monty__> `fromList`'s another option if all you want is brackety syntax.
2025-05-22 11:15:48 +0200 <hellwolf> fromList wont' cut it, it gotta be of a known length at type-level.
2025-05-22 11:15:51 +0200 <kuribas> I like Generics-eot: https://hackage.haskell.org/package/generics-eot-0.4.0.1/docs/Generics-Eot.html
2025-05-22 11:16:31 +0200 <kuribas> it translates a product (foo, bar, baz) to Either (foo, (bar, (baz, ()))) Void.
2025-05-22 11:16:57 +0200 <hellwolf> kuribas: I see.
2025-05-22 11:17:16 +0200 <hellwolf> again, it's the type inference I need to fix
2025-05-22 11:17:39 +0200 <hellwolf> i tried different ways, and always got disappointment in the end
2025-05-22 11:17:41 +0200 <kuribas> hellwolf: I don't know what you are doing...
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2025-05-22 11:17:59 +0200 <kuribas> Maybe I missed context...
2025-05-22 11:18:01 +0200 <hellwolf> ywithrv_1 @(U256 -> U256 -> U256) (balanceBefore, ver amount) (\x y -> x + y) <-- want to remove that type aplication
2025-05-22 11:18:05 +0200sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2025-05-22 11:18:24 +0200 <hellwolf> that "ver" combinator introduces an non-injective variable
2025-05-22 11:18:32 +0200 <hellwolf> and the whole thing break down.
2025-05-22 11:18:37 +0200 <hellwolf> but with :* it can infer from the result type
2025-05-22 11:18:41 +0200 <hellwolf> one by one.
2025-05-22 11:18:52 +0200 <__monty__> Why is that Either _ Void? Surely the Either is redundant?
2025-05-22 11:18:55 +0200 <hellwolf> while with TupleN I made, I just can't make GHC work.
2025-05-22 11:19:06 +0200 <kuribas> __monty__: to support sum types.
2025-05-22 11:22:26 +0200chele(~chele@user/chele) chele
2025-05-22 11:22:46 +0200 <ski> sum-of-products
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2025-05-22 11:36:35 +0200JuanDaugherty(~juan@user/JuanDaugherty) JuanDaugherty
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2025-05-22 11:39:04 +0200Digitteknohippie(~user@user/digit) Digit
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2025-05-22 11:50:39 +0200fun-safe-math(~fun-safe-@97-120-103-223.ptld.qwest.net) fun-safe-math
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2025-05-22 11:52:13 +0200 <hellwolf> might as well having a inductive np function, instead.
2025-05-22 11:52:16 +0200sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2025-05-22 11:52:26 +0200 <hellwolf> np a b c d -- :: NP f xs
2025-05-22 11:53:00 +0200 <hellwolf> I am qutie familiar with this n-ary trick now
2025-05-22 11:53:29 +0200 <hellwolf> bummer that I wasted so much time on tupleN. but I did learn a ton of working with types.
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2025-05-22 16:17:30 +0200 <EvanR> newtype is a zero cost abstraction right. But what about map MkNewtype xs and map unmakeNewtype xs
2025-05-22 16:17:36 +0200 <EvanR> is that optimized away
2025-05-22 16:22:14 +0200[XRPTradingBot](~user@user/siracusa) (Quit: Bye!)
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2025-05-22 16:26:53 +0200 <Leary> EvanR: If it's literally `Data.List.map`, then I imagine `{-# RULES "map/coerce" [1] map coerce = coerce #-}` will handle it. Otherwise no, but that's what e.g. `coerce :: [Newtype a] -> [a]` is for.
2025-05-22 16:27:18 +0200 <EvanR> good to know
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2025-05-22 16:39:28 +0200Sgeo(~Sgeo@user/sgeo) Sgeo
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2025-05-22 16:55:11 +0200weary-traveler(~user@user/user363627) user363627
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2025-05-22 17:04:25 +0200 <[exa]> is hackage having issues? (I'm getting http503)
2025-05-22 17:09:11 +0200tromp(~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:38c8:fba4:4821:1856)
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2025-05-22 17:18:31 +0200 <hellwolf> fine for me
2025-05-22 17:19:17 +0200joeyh(~joeyh@kitenet.net) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
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2025-05-22 17:32:13 +0200 <Hecate> dminuoso: nice, hope you enjoyed it! :D
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2025-05-22 17:39:16 +0200notzmv(~daniel@user/notzmv) notzmv
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2025-05-22 17:39:41 +0200 <tomsmeding> [exa]: fine for me too
2025-05-22 17:40:02 +0200sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr)
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2025-05-22 17:50:39 +0200mceresa(~mceresa@user/mceresa) mceresa
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2025-05-22 18:01:47 +0200erty(~user@user/aeroplane) aeroplane
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2025-05-22 18:25:39 +0200mistivia(~mistivia@user/mistivia) mistivia
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2025-05-22 18:40:30 +0200craunts7(~craunts@136.158.8.87)
2025-05-22 18:41:10 +0200machinedgod(~machinedg@d108-173-18-100.abhsia.telus.net) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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2025-05-22 18:49:34 +0200bitdex(~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex) bitdex
2025-05-22 18:52:17 +0200sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2025-05-22 18:53:06 +0200 <EvanR> I see I see
2025-05-22 18:53:33 +0200 <EvanR> :t sequence_ -- drake rejects
2025-05-22 18:53:34 +0200 <lambdabot> (Foldable t, Monad m) => t (m a) -> m ()
2025-05-22 18:54:09 +0200infinity0(~infinity0@pwned.gg) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2025-05-22 18:54:14 +0200acidjnk(~acidjnk@p200300d6e71c4f686104470de4bb3da9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) acidjnk
2025-05-22 18:56:37 +0200 <EvanR> :t fold -- drake approves
2025-05-22 18:56:38 +0200 <lambdabot> (Foldable t, Monoid m) => t m -> m
2025-05-22 18:57:15 +0200 <EvanR> :t fold [putStrLn "hello", putStrLn "world"]
2025-05-22 18:57:16 +0200 <lambdabot> IO ()
2025-05-22 18:58:48 +0200Square3(~Square@user/square) Square
2025-05-22 18:58:50 +0200Unicorn_Princess(~Unicorn_P@user/Unicorn-Princess/x-3540542) Unicorn_Princess
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2025-05-22 19:07:55 +0200omegatron(~some@user/omegatron) (Quit: Power is a curious thing. It can be contained, hidden, locked away, and yet it always breaks free.)
2025-05-22 19:13:03 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
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2025-05-22 19:13:56 +0200ttybitnik(~ttybitnik@user/wolper) ttybitnik
2025-05-22 19:14:36 +0200infinity0(~infinity0@pwned.gg) infinity0
2025-05-22 19:19:05 +0200tzh(~tzh@c-76-115-131-146.hsd1.or.comcast.net) tzh
2025-05-22 19:19:51 +0200econo_(uid147250@id-147250.tinside.irccloud.com)
2025-05-22 19:20:17 +0200JuanDaugherty(~juan@user/JuanDaugherty) JuanDaugherty
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2025-05-22 19:32:48 +0200wootehfoot(~wootehfoo@user/wootehfoot) wootehfoot
2025-05-22 19:33:45 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
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2025-05-22 19:38:03 +0200ljdarj(~Thunderbi@user/ljdarj) ljdarj
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2025-05-22 19:47:33 +0200myme(~myme@2a01:799:d5e:5f00:ddff:e5d1:c808:6ccf) myme
2025-05-22 19:48:14 +0200ttybitnik(~ttybitnik@user/wolper) (Quit: Fading out...)
2025-05-22 19:48:51 +0200jmcantrell(~weechat@user/jmcantrell) jmcantrell
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2025-05-22 20:00:28 +0200 <hellwolf> instance YulO3 x (NP I xs) r => ConstructibleNP (P'x eff r) x xs One where
2025-05-22 20:00:28 +0200 <hellwolf> why does GHC thinks this constraint is no smaller than the instance head
2025-05-22 20:05:33 +0200sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-05-22 20:05:39 +0200 <tomsmeding> https://downloads.haskell.org/ghc/latest/docs/users_guide/exts/instances.html#instance-rules
2025-05-22 20:05:56 +0200sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2025-05-22 20:06:30 +0200erty(~user@user/aeroplane) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2025-05-22 20:07:16 +0200 <tomsmeding> not sure, if NP is a data type then the conditions seem satisfied
2025-05-22 20:09:53 +0200JuanDaugherty(~juan@user/JuanDaugherty) (Quit: praxis.meansofproduction.biz (juan@acm.org))
2025-05-22 20:10:22 +0200craunts7(~craunts@136.158.8.87) (Quit: The Lounge - https://thelounge.chat)
2025-05-22 20:10:28 +0200 <tomsmeding> hellwolf: what kind of injectivity do you need?
2025-05-22 20:10:39 +0200 <tomsmeding> it seems to me like recognising n-tuples should be doable
2025-05-22 20:10:49 +0200ljdarj(~Thunderbi@user/ljdarj) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2025-05-22 20:11:16 +0200jmcantrell(~weechat@user/jmcantrell) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2025-05-22 20:12:34 +0200 <hellwolf> 05-22 21:07 <tomsmeding> not sure, if NP is a data type then the conditions seem satisfied
2025-05-22 20:12:34 +0200 <hellwolf> I think it's because the whole of "(NP I xs)" was not in the instance head, it seems a quite simple rule, but perhaps too strict.
2025-05-22 20:12:44 +0200 <tomsmeding> hellwolf: this is probably weaker than what you want but this would work fine https://play.haskell.org/saved/S3EguXSS
2025-05-22 20:12:50 +0200sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-05-22 20:13:06 +0200 <tomsmeding> oh the "smaller" conditions are definitely an underapproximation
2025-05-22 20:13:12 +0200sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2025-05-22 20:13:12 +0200 <tomsmeding> they're sound, but far from complete
2025-05-22 20:13:13 +0200jmcantrell(~weechat@user/jmcantrell) jmcantrell
2025-05-22 20:13:19 +0200 <tomsmeding> -XUndecidableInstances is your friend
2025-05-22 20:13:37 +0200 <hellwolf> yea, I will need to learn to stop worrying
2025-05-22 20:14:12 +0200 <hellwolf> 05-22 21:12 <tomsmeding> hellwolf: this is probably weaker than what you want but this would work fine https://play.haskell.org/saved/S3EguXSS
2025-05-22 20:14:12 +0200 <hellwolf> That is fine. But when I have a (x, ver y), where ver introduces an ambiguous type, it all brakes down.
2025-05-22 20:14:32 +0200 <tomsmeding> does it? It's already known that it's a tuple, so the correct instance gets chosen
2025-05-22 20:14:47 +0200 <tomsmeding> then the equality constraint from the (+) should propagate back
2025-05-22 20:14:48 +0200 <hellwolf> apparently it didn't.
2025-05-22 20:15:08 +0200 <hellwolf> I am too exhausted to create a small examples for it today.
2025-05-22 20:15:13 +0200 <tomsmeding> sure :)
2025-05-22 20:16:14 +0200 <hellwolf> sorry.
2025-05-22 20:16:24 +0200 <hellwolf> GHC is defeating me pretty badly today.
2025-05-22 20:16:36 +0200 <tomsmeding> hellwolf: https://play.haskell.org/saved/DARROgpC
2025-05-22 20:16:44 +0200 <tomsmeding> but no pressure :p
2025-05-22 20:17:00 +0200 <hellwolf> you need a ver that uses ambigous types
2025-05-22 20:17:09 +0200 <hellwolf> ver :: a -> T v a
2025-05-22 20:17:10 +0200 <hellwolf> something like that
2025-05-22 20:17:15 +0200 <tomsmeding> where T is not injective?
2025-05-22 20:17:25 +0200 <hellwolf> It's a data type
2025-05-22 20:17:27 +0200 <tomsmeding> oh
2025-05-22 20:17:31 +0200 <tomsmeding> but then it's not ambiguous
2025-05-22 20:17:58 +0200notzmv(~daniel@user/notzmv) notzmv
2025-05-22 20:17:59 +0200 <hellwolf> I mean it is, since v is neither in the MPTC nor in arguments of ver
2025-05-22 20:18:13 +0200 <tomsmeding> oh right
2025-05-22 20:18:17 +0200 <hellwolf> and I could @v but that defeats the purpose
2025-05-22 20:18:25 +0200 <hellwolf> so, if my recollection is correct:
2025-05-22 20:18:30 +0200 <tomsmeding> but then, where would you like ghc to conjure a v from :p
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2025-05-22 20:18:44 +0200 <tomsmeding> should the tuple components always have the same type?
2025-05-22 20:18:50 +0200 <tomsmeding> that is something that can be easily required
2025-05-22 20:19:03 +0200 <tomsmeding> oh wait that's already required, hm, lemme try
2025-05-22 20:19:07 +0200sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2025-05-22 20:19:26 +0200 <hellwolf> that's where I expected magic: TupleN_M m tpl = r | r -> m tpl
2025-05-22 20:19:39 +0200 <hellwolf> sorry, can't recall.
2025-05-22 20:19:47 +0200 <hellwolf> but I was hoping some back and forth propagation
2025-05-22 20:21:02 +0200 <hellwolf> (a, ver b) :: Tuple_M (R v) (a, b)
2025-05-22 20:21:06 +0200 <tomsmeding> hellwolf: https://play.haskell.org/saved/qcoMnu1O
2025-05-22 20:21:12 +0200 <hellwolf> so ver b should be :: R v b
2025-05-22 20:21:18 +0200 <hellwolf> but ghc says v0
2025-05-22 20:21:36 +0200 <hellwolf> it can't not figure out v
2025-05-22 20:21:51 +0200 <tomsmeding> I'd have to see precisely what you did
2025-05-22 20:21:57 +0200ljdarj(~Thunderbi@user/ljdarj) ljdarj
2025-05-22 20:22:26 +0200 <tomsmeding> my thing has fully bidirectional informatino
2025-05-22 20:22:37 +0200 <tomsmeding> but you probably need something stronger somehow
2025-05-22 20:23:07 +0200 <hellwolf> oh, you are using typeclass
2025-05-22 20:23:10 +0200 <hellwolf> mine was typefamily
2025-05-22 20:23:27 +0200 <hellwolf> when I have time and courage next week, I will get back to you on this one.
2025-05-22 20:23:31 +0200 <hellwolf> today I fought enough with GHC
2025-05-22 20:24:20 +0200 <hellwolf> Ur newAmount <- ywithrv_1 (balanceBefore :* ver amount :* Nil) \(x :* y :* Nil) -> x + y <-- I am settled for this today, ugly, but at least I don't have to deal with type applications.
2025-05-22 20:24:28 +0200lxsameer(~lxsameer@Serene/lxsameer) lxsameer
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2025-05-22 20:25:30 +0200notzmv(~daniel@user/notzmv) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2025-05-22 20:26:04 +0200 <tomsmeding> I can only get this to produce an ambiguous v if I explicitly ensure that the (+) does _not_ pin down the v's to be the same https://play.haskell.org/saved/m50QJTQK
2025-05-22 20:26:55 +0200tromp(~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:38c8:fba4:4821:1856) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2025-05-22 20:27:19 +0200 <hellwolf> maybe the associated type familymakes some difference
2025-05-22 20:27:26 +0200 <hellwolf> i dont' know. unlikely
2025-05-22 20:28:13 +0200 <hellwolf> Thanks for lending a hand. I save your examples.
2025-05-22 20:29:33 +0200 <hellwolf> oh
2025-05-22 20:29:54 +0200 <hellwolf> a difference: balanceBefore must be T (v :: Nat)
2025-05-22 20:30:08 +0200 <tomsmeding> Bool is just a standin
2025-05-22 20:30:19 +0200 <tomsmeding> any known type is oka
2025-05-22 20:30:21 +0200 <tomsmeding> *okay
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2025-05-22 20:34:53 +0200sprotte24(~sprotte24@p200300d16f0a64003d98b99ac0239694.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2025-05-22 20:34:53 +0200rvalue-(~rvalue@user/rvalue) rvalue
2025-05-22 20:35:17 +0200rvalue(~rvalue@user/rvalue) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
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2025-05-22 20:41:13 +0200sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2025-05-22 20:42:02 +0200rvalue-rvalue
2025-05-22 20:43:00 +0200notzmv(~daniel@user/notzmv) notzmv
2025-05-22 20:43:35 +0200 <hellwolf> the key difference is that I need to enforce the same "v-ness" in the tuple.
2025-05-22 20:43:41 +0200 <hellwolf> https://play.haskell.org/saved/glFn4zs9
2025-05-22 20:43:50 +0200 <hellwolf> I put type whole to see what's got resolved to "ver 2"
2025-05-22 20:43:54 +0200Shsl-Junko-POSER(~Shsl-Junk@50.235.208.178)
2025-05-22 20:44:11 +0200 <hellwolf> v stay abstract, since it didn't matter
2025-05-22 20:44:15 +0200 <hellwolf> but it should matter in my case.
2025-05-22 20:44:34 +0200jmcantrell(~weechat@user/jmcantrell) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2025-05-22 20:44:36 +0200 <tomsmeding> hellwolf: so the 'a' of the Ts may differ, but the 'v' must be the same across all tuple elements?
2025-05-22 20:44:43 +0200 <hellwolf> what GHC does here is mindboggling, or may be I am too hungry
2025-05-22 20:44:59 +0200 <hellwolf> correct. if you still remember, I am trying to do this silly data versioning thing.
2025-05-22 20:45:04 +0200 <tomsmeding> right
2025-05-22 20:45:07 +0200 <tomsmeding> I can arrange the vs to be the same
2025-05-22 20:45:19 +0200ttybitnik(~ttybitnik@user/wolper) ttybitnik
2025-05-22 20:45:23 +0200 <tomsmeding> but at the cost of the tuple elements necessarily being Ts
2025-05-22 20:45:39 +0200 <tomsmeding> or something that I can compute the v from, by type family
2025-05-22 20:45:40 +0200 <hellwolf> I was trying to modify your example, but my PTSD stopped me
2025-05-22 20:45:45 +0200 <tomsmeding> heh
2025-05-22 20:45:47 +0200 <hellwolf> yea.....
2025-05-22 20:45:50 +0200 <hellwolf> here we go
2025-05-22 20:46:08 +0200 <tomsmeding> well how do you do it with your :* thing
2025-05-22 20:46:18 +0200 <hellwolf> so, sometimes GHC doesn't even bother to resolve a type varibable, if it didn't matter
2025-05-22 20:46:18 +0200 <tomsmeding> because you have the same problem there of needing to make the vs equal
2025-05-22 20:46:34 +0200 <hellwolf> I mean, it works!
2025-05-22 20:46:39 +0200 <hellwolf> I don't know.
2025-05-22 20:46:44 +0200 <hellwolf> I don't know anything today anymore
2025-05-22 20:46:56 +0200 <tomsmeding> hellwolf: if I add 'Show v =>' to the context of 'ver', GHC does resolve v
2025-05-22 20:46:58 +0200 <tomsmeding> funny
2025-05-22 20:47:23 +0200 <hellwolf> interesting
2025-05-22 20:47:25 +0200 <tomsmeding> (I explicitly choose Show here, and not Num, because Num has defaulting behaviour and I don't want any defaulting here)
2025-05-22 20:47:50 +0200 <tomsmeding> it's the (+) here that forces the arguments to have the same type
2025-05-22 20:48:02 +0200sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-05-22 20:48:06 +0200 <hellwolf> it's probably easier if I recreate that failed example in a branch, and if you will have time have a look, another day.
2025-05-22 20:48:12 +0200 <tomsmeding> probably
2025-05-22 20:48:24 +0200sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2025-05-22 20:48:32 +0200 <hellwolf> I had high hope with my plan yeasterday :D
2025-05-22 20:48:39 +0200 <hellwolf> I thought I got injectivity figured out
2025-05-22 20:49:36 +0200weary-traveler(~user@user/user363627) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-05-22 20:50:06 +0200 <hellwolf> but maybe your applyTupFun is doing some wonder here
2025-05-22 20:50:11 +0200 <tomsmeding> it isn't
2025-05-22 20:50:18 +0200 <hellwolf> :p, alright...
2025-05-22 20:50:23 +0200 <tomsmeding> it _might_ be that I'm using a type class and not a type family
2025-05-22 20:50:35 +0200 <tomsmeding> because I don't see how you can actually use that tuple if all you have is a type family
2025-05-22 20:50:57 +0200 <tomsmeding> (as in: you can perhaps introduce the correct type constraints using type families, but you also need to get the values from the tuple somehow, presumably)
2025-05-22 20:51:23 +0200 <tomsmeding> applyTupFun is just a placeholder for "use the tuple and the function somehow"
2025-05-22 20:51:43 +0200 <hellwolf> https://github.com/yolc-dev/yul-dsl-monorepo/blob/master/hs-pkgs/simple-sop/src/Data/TupleN.hs
2025-05-22 20:51:46 +0200 <hellwolf> template haskell
2025-05-22 20:51:56 +0200 <hellwolf> fromNPtoTupleN
2025-05-22 20:52:03 +0200 <tomsmeding> oof
2025-05-22 20:52:18 +0200 <tomsmeding> oh you've commented what it expands to
2025-05-22 20:52:22 +0200 <hellwolf> yea
2025-05-22 20:52:26 +0200 <tomsmeding> thank you
2025-05-22 20:52:34 +0200 <hellwolf> I thank myself too for that
2025-05-22 20:52:41 +0200 <tomsmeding> the TH is only to be able to write large stuff without having to repeat yourself?
2025-05-22 20:52:58 +0200 <hellwolf> and to practice my TH skill
2025-05-22 20:53:22 +0200 <tomsmeding> this stuff https://hackage.haskell.org/package/ghc-internal-9.1201.0/docs/src/GHC.Internal.Show.html#line-251
2025-05-22 20:53:33 +0200 <tomsmeding> there was worse somewhere
2025-05-22 20:53:52 +0200 <hellwolf> Generate code with bash is not that bad
2025-05-22 20:53:56 +0200 <tomsmeding> yeah here we go https://hackage.haskell.org/package/ghc-prim-0.13.0/docs/src/GHC.Tuple.html#Tuple0
2025-05-22 20:54:17 +0200 <hellwolf> I know, but honestly, it's not bad.
2025-05-22 20:54:18 +0200 <int-e> . o O ( As I keep saying, don't repeat yourself. )
2025-05-22 20:54:34 +0200 <tomsmeding> if it's simple like this, it's indeed not so bad
2025-05-22 20:54:38 +0200 <hellwolf> you can easily put the oneliner bash into the comments.
2025-05-22 20:54:58 +0200sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2025-05-22 20:55:09 +0200 <tomsmeding> so is this working or non-working code?
2025-05-22 20:55:22 +0200sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2025-05-22 20:55:56 +0200 <hellwolf> it compiles
2025-05-22 20:56:09 +0200 <tomsmeding> but inference is bad?
2025-05-22 20:56:25 +0200 <hellwolf> yea, let me show some snippets then, since we are sitll here.
2025-05-22 20:56:41 +0200 <tomsmeding> you said you'd leave this twice already
2025-05-22 20:56:43 +0200 <tomsmeding> :p
2025-05-22 20:56:53 +0200 <hellwolf> yea, because you are helping :D
2025-05-22 20:57:00 +0200 <hellwolf> and my wife hasn't come to pick me up yet
2025-05-22 20:57:08 +0200 <tomsmeding> I'm just procrastinating on thesis writing
2025-05-22 20:57:08 +0200 <hellwolf> "NP (Rv v r) (x:xs) ->"
2025-05-22 20:57:14 +0200 <hellwolf> we both are
2025-05-22 20:57:23 +0200 <hellwolf> I am using NP atm
2025-05-22 20:57:27 +0200 <hellwolf> Ideally, I want to do this:
2025-05-22 20:57:52 +0200 <hellwolf> "TupleN_M (Rv v r) (x:xs)"
2025-05-22 20:58:07 +0200 <hellwolf> NP (Rv v r) (x:xs) ->
2025-05-22 20:58:07 +0200 <hellwolf> (NP m2 (x:xs) -> m2 (TupleN (b:bs))) ->
2025-05-22 20:58:07 +0200 <hellwolf> YLVM v v r (Ur (TupleN_M m1 (b:bs)))
2025-05-22 20:58:13 +0200 <hellwolf> sorry, tooo much context.
2025-05-22 20:58:42 +0200 <hellwolf> you know what I remember now, tuple for (x:xs) worked
2025-05-22 20:58:50 +0200 <hellwolf> so your example was correct, and I got it working
2025-05-22 20:58:57 +0200 <hellwolf> but the inference of (b:bs) was not working
2025-05-22 20:59:46 +0200 <hellwolf> this is the working example, but I had an non-working example, where it was a n-ary "f" in the second argument
2025-05-22 21:00:00 +0200 <hellwolf> "(NP m2 (x:xs) -> m2 (TupleN (b:bs)))" is 2-ary, where b:bs is cearly inferred
2025-05-22 21:00:02 +0200caconym7(~caconym@user/caconym) (Quit: bye)
2025-05-22 21:00:03 +0200 <hellwolf> so it works.
2025-05-22 21:00:03 +0200Shsl-Junko-POSER(~Shsl-Junk@50.235.208.178) (Quit: Client closed)
2025-05-22 21:00:05 +0200 <tomsmeding> yeah I'd need a specific non-working example at this point
2025-05-22 21:00:09 +0200 <hellwolf> I know.
2025-05-22 21:00:34 +0200 <hellwolf> but I think I wasted your time. TupleN for (x:xs) I got it working fine.
2025-05-22 21:00:39 +0200 <hellwolf> it was the b, in the end.
2025-05-22 21:00:41 +0200caconym7(~caconym@user/caconym) caconym
2025-05-22 21:00:47 +0200 <hellwolf> I just couldn't remember anymore.
2025-05-22 21:00:52 +0200 <tomsmeding> it's ok
2025-05-22 21:01:09 +0200notzmv(~daniel@user/notzmv) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2025-05-22 21:01:10 +0200 <tomsmeding> I've been there too :D
2025-05-22 21:03:02 +0200sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-05-22 21:03:10 +0200 <hellwolf> so, imagine the second argument is a (x1 -> x2 -> ... -> b)
2025-05-22 21:03:18 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-05-22 21:03:23 +0200 <hellwolf> where I have another silly type family called Function
2025-05-22 21:03:29 +0200sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2025-05-22 21:03:38 +0200 <hellwolf> I think the bug is there, it doesn't infer "b" easily from backward
2025-05-22 21:03:43 +0200 <hellwolf> "bug"
2025-05-22 21:04:01 +0200 <tomsmeding> right -- I was going to ask, "how do I imagine a thing that isn't valid haskell syntax"
2025-05-22 21:04:15 +0200 <tomsmeding> because sure you can encode that, but exactly how you encode that is precisely the important bit here :p
2025-05-22 21:04:56 +0200 <hellwolf> :p
2025-05-22 21:04:56 +0200 <hellwolf> type family LiftFunction f (m :: Type -> Type) (mb :: Type -> Type) (p :: Multiplicity) where
2025-05-22 21:04:56 +0200 <hellwolf> LiftFunction (x1 -> g) m mb p = m x1 %p-> LiftFunction g m mb p
2025-05-22 21:04:56 +0200 <hellwolf> LiftFunction (b) _ mb _ = mb b
2025-05-22 21:05:10 +0200tomsmedingalso doesn't see how "n-ary function" meshes with "I want the tuple to be a standard tuple"
2025-05-22 21:05:14 +0200 <tomsmeding> because tuples are not n-ary
2025-05-22 21:05:33 +0200 <tomsmeding> oh hm
2025-05-22 21:05:48 +0200 <hellwolf> I realized today that maybe I am asking too much syntax sugar for an EDSL
2025-05-22 21:05:50 +0200 <tomsmeding> the n comes from the tuple but you want to post-process the function type somehow
2025-05-22 21:05:53 +0200 <tomsmeding> ?
2025-05-22 21:05:58 +0200 <hellwolf> maybe users of an EDSL just need to use esoteric syntax.
2025-05-22 21:06:23 +0200 <tomsmeding> ghc doesn't know here that b is not a function type I think
2025-05-22 21:06:34 +0200 <tomsmeding> or at least, it's a problem that I can see happening
2025-05-22 21:06:54 +0200 <hellwolf> I see, interesting
2025-05-22 21:07:01 +0200 <tomsmeding> applying a type family to a function type to modify its argument and result types is generally a bad idea
2025-05-22 21:07:02 +0200 <hellwolf> I actually know the solution to that particular problem
2025-05-22 21:07:12 +0200 <tomsmeding> because you need to know already beforehand that the result type is _not_ a function for it to work
2025-05-22 21:07:37 +0200 <tomsmeding> can you instead modify the list of argument types before they get stuffed into a chain of (->)?
2025-05-22 21:08:35 +0200 <hellwolf> would that become a different function with wrong associatetivty ? (x1 -> x2 -> x3 ...) -> b
2025-05-22 21:08:55 +0200sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-05-22 21:08:58 +0200 <tomsmeding> no, what I mean is that ghc may not be able to choose which of the two equations of LiftFunction applies
2025-05-22 21:09:07 +0200 <tomsmeding> because ghc needs to be able to prove that equation 1 doesn't apply before moving on th equation 2
2025-05-22 21:09:09 +0200 <tomsmeding> *on to
2025-05-22 21:09:21 +0200Tuplanolla(~Tuplanoll@91-159-69-59.elisa-laajakaista.fi) Tuplanolla
2025-05-22 21:09:21 +0200sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2025-05-22 21:09:51 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2025-05-22 21:10:11 +0200 <tomsmeding> in accelerate, function types are also used as a stand-in for type level lists and mapped over in some ways
2025-05-22 21:10:13 +0200 <tomsmeding> it's always messy
2025-05-22 21:10:25 +0200 <tomsmeding> mapping over an _actual_ type level list is just, well, normal
2025-05-22 21:10:33 +0200 <hellwolf> I think the trick I use is to add a constraint: LiftFunction b ~ b
2025-05-22 21:10:36 +0200 <hellwolf> something like this
2025-05-22 21:10:39 +0200 <hellwolf> I have this in few places
2025-05-22 21:10:41 +0200lxsameer(~lxsameer@Serene/lxsameer) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2025-05-22 21:10:54 +0200 <hellwolf> it forces it to check if it is NOT a function type any more
2025-05-22 21:11:02 +0200 <tomsmeding> I don't know if this is the problem you have here
2025-05-22 21:11:18 +0200 <tomsmeding> but it tickles my intuition because this stuff can stop type information from progressing
2025-05-22 21:11:54 +0200 <hellwolf> I see, maybe indeed there is something there I need to be careful
2025-05-22 21:12:12 +0200 <tomsmeding> in particular, LiftFunction is _not_ injective
2025-05-22 21:12:21 +0200 <hellwolf> type family CurryNP np b where
2025-05-22 21:12:21 +0200 <hellwolf> CurryNP (NP _ '[]) b = b
2025-05-22 21:12:21 +0200 <hellwolf> CurryNP (NP m (x:xs)) b = x -> CurryNP (NP m xs) b
2025-05-22 21:12:28 +0200 <hellwolf> I could recreate function signature in reverse
2025-05-22 21:12:34 +0200 <hellwolf> not sure if it would make a difference
2025-05-22 21:12:44 +0200 <tomsmeding> can you apply a LiftFunction-like thing _before_ doing CurryNP?
2025-05-22 21:12:49 +0200 <tomsmeding> so that you map over a list instead of a function type
2025-05-22 21:13:12 +0200 <tomsmeding> then LiftFunction could perhaps be injective
2025-05-22 21:13:15 +0200 <hellwolf> I think so, it's in my TF clauset
2025-05-22 21:13:39 +0200 <hellwolf> closet
2025-05-22 21:13:41 +0200sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2025-05-22 21:13:49 +0200tomsmeding. o O ( TensorFlow )
2025-05-22 21:14:07 +0200sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2025-05-22 21:14:31 +0200 <EvanR> k I'm about to do something stupid, if you have a column of length N, and an empty table ... of length not N, then it's going to stop you from consing the column onto the table xD
2025-05-22 21:14:46 +0200 <EvanR> by empty table I mean no columns
2025-05-22 21:15:02 +0200 <tomsmeding> is the table a column of rows, or a row of columns
2025-05-22 21:15:19 +0200 <EvanR> it's a matrix!
2025-05-22 21:15:32 +0200 <tomsmeding> a C matrix or a Pascal matrix
2025-05-22 21:16:10 +0200 <EvanR> graphical linear algebra matrix, I guess. Which is going to be annoying without something like a dependent type system
2025-05-22 21:16:34 +0200tomsmedingwonders how "consing" and "matrix" go together
2025-05-22 21:16:59 +0200 <EvanR> but my haskell code right now, table = list of rows, and column is a separate thing
2025-05-22 21:17:20 +0200 <EvanR> you can slap a column of the right size on the left side
2025-05-22 21:17:32 +0200 <tomsmeding> by doing `zipWith (:)`?
2025-05-22 21:17:42 +0200 <EvanR> basically
2025-05-22 21:19:08 +0200 <EvanR> I guess I could outlaw no column tables
2025-05-22 21:19:37 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-05-22 21:19:56 +0200 <tomsmeding> or store the matrix size separately from its contents so that you can check sizes
2025-05-22 21:20:13 +0200 <tomsmeding> data Matrix a = Matrix (Int, Int) (Vector a)
2025-05-22 21:20:31 +0200sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-05-22 21:20:34 +0200 <EvanR> I have that and am envisioning user frustration with no being able to do this operation on "the empty table" which is 0 x 0
2025-05-22 21:20:55 +0200sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2025-05-22 21:20:55 +0200 <tomsmeding> then you can special-case that :p
2025-05-22 21:21:01 +0200 <EvanR> uhg
2025-05-22 21:21:02 +0200 <tomsmeding> if it's runtime values, you're in control
2025-05-22 21:21:35 +0200 <tomsmeding> but wanting to cons an n-long vector onto a 0x0 table to get a 1xn table sounds like python, not haskell
2025-05-22 21:21:43 +0200 <EvanR> ikr
2025-05-22 21:21:53 +0200 <EvanR> not doing it
2025-05-22 21:21:54 +0200 <tomsmeding> this is the kind of stuff that tensorflow does
2025-05-22 21:22:48 +0200tomsmedinghas had to fix student-written tensorflow code that horribly confused zero-dimensional arrays and length-1 1-dimensional arrays everywhere
2025-05-22 21:23:06 +0200 <tomsmeding> worse, it wasn't tensorflow code, it was code that _generated_ tensorflow code, as a compiler backend
2025-05-22 21:23:07 +0200 <EvanR> haha
2025-05-22 21:23:34 +0200 <tomsmeding> if TF had enforced proper shape discipline a whole bunch of strange errors could never even have occurred because stuff wouldn't have typechecked
2025-05-22 21:24:38 +0200 <EvanR> now I'm wondering if it's simpler to have "bizarre" "proper" 0xN tables, or to make the rows NonEmpty
2025-05-22 21:24:49 +0200 <EvanR> i mean, which is more complicated
2025-05-22 21:24:56 +0200 <tomsmeding> complicated for you or for the user
2025-05-22 21:25:00 +0200 <EvanR> me
2025-05-22 21:25:13 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2025-05-22 21:25:26 +0200 <tomsmeding> allowing 0xN has fewer edge-cases because [0..]x[0..] is all allowed
2025-05-22 21:25:55 +0200 <tomsmeding> otherwise you have [1..]x[1..] \union {0x0}
2025-05-22 21:26:21 +0200peterbecich(~Thunderbi@syn-047-229-123-186.res.spectrum.com) peterbecich
2025-05-22 21:26:21 +0200 <EvanR> 0x0 would be out
2025-05-22 21:27:01 +0200 <tomsmeding> [1..]x[1..] allows you to compute the shape from the contents, if the contents is nested lists
2025-05-22 21:27:09 +0200 <tomsmeding> (condolences for your performance if so)
2025-05-22 21:27:17 +0200tomsmedingwould allow 0x0
2025-05-22 21:28:07 +0200 <EvanR> 00, the best bet on the board
2025-05-22 21:28:33 +0200sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2025-05-22 21:28:41 +0200 <EvanR> 0xN it is
2025-05-22 21:28:54 +0200sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2025-05-22 21:31:39 +0200pavonia(~user@user/siracusa) siracusa
2025-05-22 21:32:36 +0200 <EvanR> stupid question, is N the number of rows there
2025-05-22 21:32:47 +0200 <EvanR> from context yes but conventionally
2025-05-22 21:34:11 +0200sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-05-22 21:34:32 +0200sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2025-05-22 21:35:13 +0200sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-05-22 21:35:27 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-05-22 21:35:35 +0200sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2025-05-22 21:35:43 +0200peterbecich(~Thunderbi@syn-047-229-123-186.res.spectrum.com) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2025-05-22 21:36:04 +0200 <tomsmeding> are you doing graphics or math :p
2025-05-22 21:36:25 +0200 <tomsmeding> math has "height x width" as notational convention
2025-05-22 21:36:56 +0200 <tomsmeding> I chose randomly from 0xN and Nx0 because I was too lazy to think about it
2025-05-22 21:37:05 +0200 <EvanR> yeah that's what I'm gonna do
2025-05-22 21:37:11 +0200 <EvanR> let me get the RNG out
2025-05-22 21:38:07 +0200 <EvanR> the math definition fails when the table is flat get it
2025-05-22 21:38:14 +0200 <tomsmeding> hm?
2025-05-22 21:38:29 +0200 <EvanR> because it has zero height
2025-05-22 21:38:47 +0200 <tomsmeding> 0xN is a perfectly valid matrix size in math
2025-05-22 21:38:57 +0200 <tomsmeding> if a bit unusual
2025-05-22 21:39:14 +0200 <tomsmeding> represents linear functions from R^N to R^0
2025-05-22 21:39:57 +0200 <EvanR> no you see, if the table only has width and depth, is horizontal on a flat plane
2025-05-22 21:39:58 +0200 <tomsmeding> of which there is only one (that sends all elements of R^n to 0), corresponding nicely to the unique element of R^{0xN}, an empty matrix
2025-05-22 21:40:15 +0200 <EvanR> like a damn table
2025-05-22 21:40:24 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2025-05-22 21:41:05 +0200 <tomsmeding> π
2025-05-22 21:41:43 +0200sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-05-22 21:42:04 +0200sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2025-05-22 21:42:33 +0200 <EvanR> it is apparently tricky to find a stock image of a table... on a table...
2025-05-22 21:42:53 +0200 <tomsmeding> try to get AI to generate it
2025-05-22 21:43:42 +0200 <EvanR> my AI skills are neophyte-like
2025-05-22 21:43:56 +0200 <tomsmeding> that's why I asked you, mine are worse
2025-05-22 21:44:55 +0200Guest65(~Guest75@38.158.225.122)
2025-05-22 21:44:58 +0200 <EvanR> but I will strive to learn an ascii cast ish thing soonish so I can show off what I got
2025-05-22 21:45:48 +0200 <tomsmeding> well it's not a... table? but it's something
2025-05-22 21:46:02 +0200 <tomsmeding> https://tomsmeding.com/vang/xjdXHX/Untitled.jpg
2025-05-22 21:46:09 +0200 <tomsmeding> credits stable diffusion
2025-05-22 21:46:55 +0200 <Rembane> A diffuse table!
2025-05-22 21:47:11 +0200 <tomsmeding> a diffuse stable, rather
2025-05-22 21:47:13 +0200 <Rembane> Can you ask it to go more Escher?
2025-05-22 21:47:21 +0200 <Rembane> Yes, it's very stable, many legs
2025-05-22 21:47:23 +0200 <EvanR> always fun to see wtf it generates for text on a page
2025-05-22 21:47:45 +0200 <Rembane> Stability is a function of number of legs, right?
2025-05-22 21:48:01 +0200 <tomsmeding> adding Escher made it a... metro map? https://tomsmeding.com/vang/FAbSVV/Untitled.jpg
2025-05-22 21:48:18 +0200 <Rembane> I love the random frame on the floor
2025-05-22 21:48:22 +0200sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-05-22 21:48:24 +0200 <Rembane> It's just there for decoration
2025-05-22 21:48:28 +0200 <tomsmeding> yes
2025-05-22 21:48:43 +0200 <Rembane> The map looks a bit like the more advanced parts of USA
2025-05-22 21:48:47 +0200sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2025-05-22 21:48:53 +0200 <Rembane> Before people got tired and just did a thing with aruler
2025-05-22 21:49:53 +0200 <EvanR> I think the thing under the table is the escher part if you try to understand where its going back there
2025-05-22 21:50:01 +0200Guest65(~Guest75@38.158.225.122) (Quit: Client closed)
2025-05-22 21:50:22 +0200 <tomsmeding> https://tomsmeding.com/vang/s5Xsxf/Untitled.jpg this is "a table of results on top of a drafting table, line-drawing style"
2025-05-22 21:50:24 +0200 <EvanR> it's probably part of the table proper, one big piee
2025-05-22 21:50:25 +0200 <EvanR> piece
2025-05-22 21:50:29 +0200Guest4(~Guest75@38.158.225.122)
2025-05-22 21:50:44 +0200 <tomsmeding> the "line-drawing" just didn't influence the style, but became a separate drawing
2025-05-22 21:51:06 +0200 <EvanR> is that real language
2025-05-22 21:51:12 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-05-22 21:51:33 +0200 <tomsmeding> have you never looked at text generated by stable diffusion
2025-05-22 21:51:37 +0200machinedgod(~machinedg@d108-173-18-100.abhsia.telus.net) machinedgod
2025-05-22 21:51:39 +0200 <tomsmeding> it's always hilarious like this, especially when it actually tries
2025-05-22 21:51:54 +0200 <tomsmeding> it manages "Result", almost, 6x as the headers
2025-05-22 21:52:18 +0200 <EvanR> I can't look at these images for long
2025-05-22 21:52:42 +0200 <tomsmeding> this is 'the word "monomorphism"' https://tomsmeding.com/vang/3N9spa/Untitled.jpg
2025-05-22 21:52:47 +0200 <hellwolf> I couldn't sto pmyself
2025-05-22 21:53:03 +0200 <hellwolf> oh, tom, you already jump to another topic
2025-05-22 21:53:11 +0200 <tomsmeding> the distraction continues
2025-05-22 21:53:13 +0200 <hellwolf> I just came back home, and recreated the error.
2025-05-22 21:53:18 +0200 <hellwolf> if youwant more distractions
2025-05-22 21:53:23 +0200 <tomsmeding> yay
2025-05-22 21:53:32 +0200 <EvanR> monomorphıism
2025-05-22 21:53:40 +0200 <EvanR> oh
2025-05-22 21:53:50 +0200 <EvanR> monomorphisıim
2025-05-22 21:53:54 +0200 <tomsmeding> yes\
2025-05-22 21:54:00 +0200Guest4(~Guest75@38.158.225.122) ()
2025-05-22 21:54:02 +0200 <hellwolf> https://paste.tomsmeding.com/1AsgewaD
2025-05-22 21:55:16 +0200 <EvanR> people use ai generated imagery for stuff, but I wonder if anyone is cutting corners so hard they're using stuff like monomorphisıim xD
2025-05-22 21:55:18 +0200 <hellwolf> https://paste.tomsmeding.com/pyA3ZjDH
2025-05-22 21:55:21 +0200 <tomsmeding> EvanR: 'the words "lambda calculus" written in clouds' https://tomsmeding.com/vang/xQ5iil/Untitled.jpg
2025-05-22 21:55:45 +0200 <Rembane> I love how close it is every time
2025-05-22 21:55:56 +0200 <EvanR> so close
2025-05-22 21:56:26 +0200 <hellwolf> the TupleN_M failed to inject due to v0 in "Rv v0 r (INTx False 32)"
2025-05-22 21:56:26 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2025-05-22 21:56:44 +0200sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-05-22 21:56:59 +0200 <tomsmeding> EvanR: there was a paper that did that
2025-05-22 21:57:07 +0200sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2025-05-22 21:57:23 +0200 <hellwolf> https://paste.tomsmeding.com/B99bWHl8 added TupleN_M
2025-05-22 21:57:28 +0200 <tomsmeding> oh here we go, found by searching for "penis" in MS Teams https://scienceintegritydigest.com/2024/02/15/the-rat-with-the-big-balls-and-enormous-penis-how-fr…
2025-05-22 21:58:24 +0200 <Rembane> tomsmeding: That's how you find the good stuff
2025-05-22 21:59:14 +0200 <hellwolf> alright :p this chat is going haywire
2025-05-22 21:59:20 +0200 <tomsmeding> hellwolf: I'm looking
2025-05-22 21:59:51 +0200 <EvanR> that's a direct answer to my inquiry
2025-05-22 22:00:14 +0200 <tomsmeding> an affirmative one, yes
2025-05-22 22:00:23 +0200 <tomsmeding> though this made the news, so it can't be that common
2025-05-22 22:00:48 +0200 <hellwolf> added "ver" too: https://paste.tomsmeding.com/QYgRs34n
2025-05-22 22:01:23 +0200 <hellwolf> hope that's enough context. gonna ingest some food before I can figure injectivity.
2025-05-22 22:01:24 +0200sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2025-05-22 22:01:45 +0200sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2025-05-22 22:01:58 +0200 <tomsmeding> hellwolf: odd, injectivity of TupleN_M ought to fix xs0 ~ [y0] at the very least, for unknown y0
2025-05-22 22:03:14 +0200 <hellwolf> I thought so too, and I was almost proud to TH that 16 or 64 of isntances.
2025-05-22 22:04:05 +0200 <tomsmeding> I seem to be able to reproduce?
2025-05-22 22:04:17 +0200 <hellwolf> huh?
2025-05-22 22:04:39 +0200 <tomsmeding> https://play.haskell.org/saved/XPOw0qzY
2025-05-22 22:04:57 +0200 <hellwolf> nice, mini example
2025-05-22 22:05:09 +0200 <hellwolf> you have clearer mind than mine atm
2025-05-22 22:05:43 +0200 <tomsmeding> oh
2025-05-22 22:05:51 +0200 <tomsmeding> I think I have a lead on what's going on
2025-05-22 22:06:25 +0200 <tomsmeding> (Rv 0 r Char, Rv v r Bool) needs to match (m x1, m x2) for GHC to decide that indeed the TupleN_M equation matches
2025-05-22 22:06:34 +0200 <tomsmeding> but in order for that to work, we need 0 ~ v
2025-05-22 22:06:39 +0200 <tomsmeding> and GHC doesn't know that yet
2025-05-22 22:06:56 +0200 <tomsmeding> so GHC cannot conclude for certain that indeed the second equation of TupleN_M matches
2025-05-22 22:07:00 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-05-22 22:07:25 +0200sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-05-22 22:07:30 +0200 <hellwolf> :(
2025-05-22 22:07:32 +0200 <tomsmeding> note that the absence of a different candidate equation does not force GHC's hand, because GHC does not assume that any given type equal to the result of a type family application does actually have a pre-image
2025-05-22 22:07:47 +0200 <hellwolf> i think what you said makes sense.
2025-05-22 22:07:51 +0200sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2025-05-22 22:07:59 +0200 <tomsmeding> in a type class you'd do this by writing `instance (m ~ m') => SomeClass (m x1, m' x2)`
2025-05-22 22:08:16 +0200 <tomsmeding> the point being that this allows GHC to choose the instance already if it doesn't know yet that m equals m'
2025-05-22 22:08:27 +0200 <tomsmeding> and only after GHC has committed to this instance, assert that m ~ m'
2025-05-22 22:08:52 +0200 <tomsmeding> with only a type family, I don't think you can do this directly
2025-05-22 22:09:01 +0200 <tomsmeding> you'd have to generate a constraint from the type family that is to applied afterwards
2025-05-22 22:09:25 +0200tomsmedingalready had a hunch this was going to happen when you began about the vs needing to be equal
2025-05-22 22:09:34 +0200 <tomsmeding> I already had this instance trick ready in my mind for that
2025-05-22 22:09:49 +0200 <hellwolf> if I make TupleN_M a type class, would that work
2025-05-22 22:09:58 +0200hellwolfdon't know what I am talking about yet
2025-05-22 22:09:58 +0200 <tomsmeding> if you use this trick, I think yes
2025-05-22 22:12:20 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2025-05-22 22:13:22 +0200target_i(~target_i@user/target-i/x-6023099) target_i
2025-05-22 22:15:48 +0200sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-05-22 22:16:12 +0200sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2025-05-22 22:18:12 +0200 <tomsmeding> hellwolf: look at this https://play.haskell.org/saved/Y2hq9vNs
2025-05-22 22:18:24 +0200tomsmedingis proud of that TypeError trick
2025-05-22 22:19:27 +0200 <tomsmeding> never mind that the syntax highlighting messes ul completely there
2025-05-22 22:19:42 +0200 <hellwolf> oh, I was trying too, derring dinner.
2025-05-22 22:19:55 +0200 <hellwolf> i know why the syntax highlighting problem
2025-05-22 22:20:02 +0200 <tomsmeding> missing 'where'
2025-05-22 22:20:02 +0200 <hellwolf> I didn't report to you
2025-05-22 22:20:05 +0200 <hellwolf> right, yes.
2025-05-22 22:21:33 +0200 <tomsmeding> naturally names are crappy and all that, but it's about the deferred equality assertion trick
2025-05-22 22:21:40 +0200 <tomsmeding> I don't know if this trick has a name
2025-05-22 22:21:50 +0200 <hellwolf> `but it still doesn't work, right?
2025-05-22 22:21:58 +0200 <tomsmeding> well it typechecks
2025-05-22 22:22:06 +0200 <tomsmeding> it doesn't because I used TypeError to show what m and xs are
2025-05-22 22:22:13 +0200 <tomsmeding> and to show that they indeed inferred to the correct types
2025-05-22 22:22:27 +0200 <tomsmeding> if you remove that TypeError (and the failing non-C 'usage') it compiles
2025-05-22 22:22:48 +0200sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-05-22 22:22:48 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-05-22 22:22:54 +0200 <EvanR> ok ran into the first real issue with 0xN tables
2025-05-22 22:22:59 +0200 <EvanR> saving them to a file xD
2025-05-22 22:23:13 +0200sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2025-05-22 22:23:18 +0200 <tomsmeding> just write a shape header
2025-05-22 22:23:42 +0200JuanDaugherty(~juan@user/JuanDaugherty) JuanDaugherty
2025-05-22 22:24:34 +0200 <EvanR> that's actually probably handy for loading the file
2025-05-22 22:24:43 +0200 <EvanR> since you know how many records to expect
2025-05-22 22:24:49 +0200 <hellwolf> hmm, sorry. I thought I needed a way to get TupleN from a type-lee list
2025-05-22 22:25:04 +0200nicole(ilbelkyr@libera/staff/ilbelkyr) ilbelkyr
2025-05-22 22:26:20 +0200 <hellwolf> sh, okay, hm