2025/05/20

2025-05-20 00:04:32 +0200target_i(~target_i@user/target-i/x-6023099) (Quit: leaving)
2025-05-20 00:04:37 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2025-05-20 00:07:29 +0200 <TMA> ncf: Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo.
2025-05-20 00:08:17 +0200 <spew> does not parse
2025-05-20 00:09:03 +0200 <TMA> it reportedly does: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buffalo_buffalo_Buffalo_buffalo_buffalo_buffalo_Buffalo_buffalo
2025-05-20 00:09:29 +0200 <EvanR> seems right https://paste.tomsmeding.com/hvz9f6Lt
2025-05-20 00:10:38 +0200Natch(~natch@c-92-34-7-158.bbcust.telenor.se) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
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2025-05-20 00:14:39 +0200 <sm> geekosaur, I don't see the original sender's nick mentioned in replies
2025-05-20 00:14:54 +0200xff0x(~xff0x@om126236151042.32.openmobile.ne.jp)
2025-05-20 00:15:08 +0200__monty__(~toonn@user/toonn) (Quit: leaving)
2025-05-20 00:15:29 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
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2025-05-20 00:17:42 +0200 <haskellbridge> <geekosaur> sm: Testing
2025-05-20 00:17:55 +0200sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2025-05-20 00:17:57 +0200xff0x(~xff0x@om126236151042.32.openmobile.ne.jp) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2025-05-20 00:17:59 +0200 <geekosaur> worked there
2025-05-20 00:18:22 +0200 <haskellbridge> <sm> geekosaur: testing ordinary reply from matrix
2025-05-20 00:18:34 +0200 <haskellbridge> <sm> geekosaur: testing threaded reply from matrix
2025-05-20 00:18:58 +0200 <sm> looks good! I must be confused
2025-05-20 00:19:38 +0200 <haskellbridge> <sm> sm: ordinary reply to myself
2025-05-20 00:20:49 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2025-05-20 00:20:52 +0200xff0x(~xff0x@om126236151042.32.openmobile.ne.jp)
2025-05-20 00:21:15 +0200 <sm> well I am confused, it seemed to not do it for my earlier " they agree, same max heap..." and "...How about this regular reply" replies. But it'll probably become clear
2025-05-20 00:23:50 +0200bcksl(~bcksl@user/bcksl) bcksl
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2025-05-20 00:24:41 +0200infinity0(~infinity0@pwned.gg) infinity0
2025-05-20 00:28:29 +0200end(~end@user/end/x-0094621) end^
2025-05-20 00:33:13 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
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2025-05-20 00:38:36 +0200Frostillicus(~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
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2025-05-20 00:53:44 +0200 <haskellbridge> <sm> https://learnxinyminutes.com/haskell is a great intro that could use some love
2025-05-20 00:53:55 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2025-05-20 00:54:07 +0200sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr)
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2025-05-20 00:56:51 +0200Natch(~natch@c-92-34-15-120.bbcust.telenor.se) Natch
2025-05-20 00:57:08 +0200euleritian(~euleritia@ip4d17f864.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de)
2025-05-20 01:03:14 +0200Sgeo(~Sgeo@user/sgeo) Sgeo
2025-05-20 01:04:30 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
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2025-05-20 01:05:49 +0200machinedgod(~machinedg@d108-173-18-100.abhsia.telus.net) machinedgod
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2025-05-20 01:11:45 +0200acidjnk(~acidjnk@p200300d6e71c4f475558ed43197b6fbb.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
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2025-05-20 01:20:16 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
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2025-05-20 01:23:28 +0200Unicorn_Princess(~Unicorn_P@user/Unicorn-Princess/x-3540542) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2025-05-20 01:24:51 +0200 <haskellbridge> <sm> it's the only haskell doc with many translations AFAIK
2025-05-20 01:25:09 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2025-05-20 01:25:12 +0200 <haskellbridge> <sm> (11 languages)
2025-05-20 01:26:22 +0200poscat0x04(~poscat@user/poscat) (Quit: Bye)
2025-05-20 01:26:37 +0200poscat(~poscat@user/poscat) poscat
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2025-05-20 01:50:54 +0200j1n37-(~j1n37@user/j1n37) j1n37
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2025-05-20 03:25:31 +0200 <EvanR> whoa https://github.com/aistrate/Articles/tree/master/Haskell
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2025-05-20 06:10:50 +0200sus0(zero@user/zeromomentum) zeromomentum
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2025-05-20 06:12:59 +0200 <EvanR> so in 7 `div` 3 you have the dividend and the divisor, operator and operands
2025-05-20 06:13:22 +0200 <EvanR> in f x y z w, is there similar jargon to distinguish the f from the x y z and w
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2025-05-20 06:18:09 +0200j1n37(~j1n37@user/j1n37) j1n37
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2025-05-20 06:22:01 +0200michalz(~michalz@185.246.207.200)
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2025-05-20 06:24:34 +0200j1n37(~j1n37@user/j1n37) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2025-05-20 06:24:58 +0200 <Leary> I don't think there's anything wrong with 'function' and 'arguments', but I suppose you could say 'applicator' and 'applicands'.
2025-05-20 06:25:49 +0200j1n37(~j1n37@user/j1n37) j1n37
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2025-05-20 06:32:52 +0200jmcantrell(~weechat@user/jmcantrell) jmcantrell
2025-05-20 06:35:26 +0200 <monochrom> function and arguments
2025-05-20 06:36:54 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
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2025-05-20 06:45:27 +0200takuan(~takuan@d8D86B601.access.telenet.be)
2025-05-20 06:47:11 +0200 <EvanR> well yeah f would evaluate to a function
2025-05-20 06:47:18 +0200 <EvanR> but if it's a big expression
2025-05-20 06:47:43 +0200 <EvanR> calling a big expression "the function" while "function" is used for 50 other bits and bobs ... xD
2025-05-20 06:47:43 +0200 <monochrom> big-*ss function :)
2025-05-20 06:48:02 +0200 <EvanR> it's like calling x `div` y, the number and the number
2025-05-20 06:48:19 +0200 <EvanR> the number and the non-zero number
2025-05-20 06:48:33 +0200 <EvanR> and x y z w might also be functions
2025-05-20 06:48:55 +0200 <EvanR> applicator! dunno that sounds like I'm getting my makeup done
2025-05-20 06:49:32 +0200 <monochrom> If you say generically "f x y" then I can only answer generically "function, 1st arg, 2nd arg".
2025-05-20 06:50:03 +0200 <monochrom> "div x y" gets a more specific treatment because, only because, I know that you have specifically "div" not generically "f".
2025-05-20 06:51:04 +0200 <monochrom> Tell me more about your big-*ss function and your big-*ss argument. Then maybe I can think up better wording. Information is conserve, I can't create information from nothing.
2025-05-20 06:51:14 +0200 <monochrom> s/conserve/conserved/
2025-05-20 06:52:19 +0200sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-05-20 06:52:35 +0200 <EvanR> ok
2025-05-20 06:52:41 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-05-20 06:52:41 +0200sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2025-05-20 06:52:46 +0200 <EvanR> App Expr Expr,
2025-05-20 06:53:14 +0200 <EvanR> (a (b c) d) ((e f) g h) is of this form
2025-05-20 06:53:30 +0200 <EvanR> I've been calling the two components l and r for lack of a better idea
2025-05-20 06:53:48 +0200 <EvanR> one definitely should evaluate to "a function" while the other only might
2025-05-20 06:53:52 +0200 <monochrom> Frankly I just write like "interp (App f e) = ..."
2025-05-20 06:54:07 +0200 <EvanR> I was doing that until I needed f for other things in the same scope
2025-05-20 06:54:22 +0200 <EvanR> and it's silly anyway since f is often another App
2025-05-20 06:54:25 +0200 <EvanR> not a function
2025-05-20 06:54:45 +0200 <monochrom> interp (App e1 e2)
2025-05-20 06:55:01 +0200 <EvanR> yeah
2025-05-20 06:55:28 +0200 <monochrom> I am not one of those Enterprise Java dev, I am not going to sweat over "oh so meaningful names" where it doesn't matter.
2025-05-20 06:55:28 +0200 <EvanR> though to evaluate or compile App e1 e2, you don't treat them symmetrically
2025-05-20 06:55:39 +0200 <EvanR> so if I'm writing about e1 and e2 they might have names
2025-05-20 06:55:46 +0200 <EvanR> applicator and applicand it is
2025-05-20 06:56:01 +0200Lord_of_Life(~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2025-05-20 06:56:18 +0200 <monochrom> functor, funcand
2025-05-20 06:56:25 +0200Lord_of_Life(~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915) Lord_of_Life
2025-05-20 06:56:30 +0200 <EvanR> functcand
2025-05-20 06:56:40 +0200 <EvanR> functee
2025-05-20 06:57:04 +0200 <monochrom> I saw HOL4 saying "rator, rand", short for operator, operand.
2025-05-20 06:57:16 +0200 <EvanR> that's pretty bad
2025-05-20 06:57:43 +0200 <monochrom> Maybe alligator and egg? Recall that aligator game... :)
2025-05-20 06:57:44 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2025-05-20 06:57:55 +0200 <EvanR> yeah
2025-05-20 06:58:08 +0200 <EvanR> maybe now that I understand lambda calculus I can go back and understand the alligator game
2025-05-20 06:59:21 +0200harveypwca(~harveypwc@2601:246:d080:f6e0:27d6:8cc7:eca9:c46c) (Quit: Leaving)
2025-05-20 06:59:22 +0200 <EvanR> ok I'll reserve "now understanding LC" for after I understand oleg's lambda calculus section
2025-05-20 07:01:40 +0200pabs3(~pabs3@user/pabs3) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2025-05-20 07:02:47 +0200 <jackdk> Since all functions take only one argument, the LHS of an App Expr Expr is a function if your term is well-typed
2025-05-20 07:06:12 +0200flounders(~flounders@2607:fb90:ee09:4f99:c6b8:4dd2:346a:a4b4) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2025-05-20 07:06:43 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-05-20 07:07:30 +0200flounders(~flounders@24.246.181.22) flounders
2025-05-20 07:09:47 +0200 <EvanR> it often "is" itself an App Expr Expr, and so on in a long chain
2025-05-20 07:10:00 +0200jason_davidson(~jason.dav@user/jason-davidson:57402) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2025-05-20 07:10:24 +0200 <EvanR> no use treating it as a function it's actually a function, if anything is
2025-05-20 07:10:32 +0200 <EvanR> is lambda even a function? I'm not sure anymore
2025-05-20 07:10:51 +0200 <EvanR> s/function it's/function until it's/
2025-05-20 07:11:20 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
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2025-05-20 07:13:28 +0200 <EvanR> another counter example is yeah f x is well typed, and yeah f "is" a thunk. So you force it because it "is" a function, then f diverges because haskell
2025-05-20 07:14:43 +0200califax(~califax@user/califx) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-05-20 07:16:17 +0200 <monochrom> If I have "div (div x y) (div a b)", do you have trouble calling "div a b" divisor?
2025-05-20 07:16:23 +0200califax(~califax@user/califx) califx
2025-05-20 07:17:29 +0200 <monochrom> "div a b" is itself another div, and god knows how many long chains and deep trees are hiding behind "a" and "b", too.
2025-05-20 07:18:03 +0200sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-05-20 07:18:13 +0200 <monochrom> By that reasoning, you will reject even "divisor". Paradoxically, you accepted it.
2025-05-20 07:18:23 +0200sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2025-05-20 07:18:53 +0200 <EvanR> yeah b is divisor in div a b and div a b is divisor in div (div x y) (div a b)
2025-05-20 07:19:11 +0200 <EvanR> not "the number"
2025-05-20 07:20:10 +0200 <EvanR> div is standing in for the fancy division sign here too, not to confuse div a b with generic f a b
2025-05-20 07:21:29 +0200 <monochrom> Div dividend divisor :: App function argument
2025-05-20 07:21:29 +0200 <EvanR> operator and operand might have worked if it wasn't for APL making a huge mess of that!
2025-05-20 07:21:43 +0200 <monochrom> I did not advocate "App number number".
2025-05-20 07:22:01 +0200 <monochrom> I didn't even advocate "App term moarterm"
2025-05-20 07:22:05 +0200 <EvanR> "the function" and ... the non function?
2025-05-20 07:22:17 +0200 <EvanR> could evaluate to a function, or not
2025-05-20 07:22:27 +0200 <monochrom> I didn't commit to "the argument is not a function".
2025-05-20 07:22:32 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-05-20 07:22:50 +0200 <EvanR> in some languages you can apply non functions!
2025-05-20 07:23:01 +0200 <monochrom> Do you accept recursion? Let recursion worry about what's inside argument.
2025-05-20 07:23:24 +0200 <EvanR> the recursion in my case has usually been taking care of what's inside "function" (left component)
2025-05-20 07:23:38 +0200 <EvanR> to flatten out the app chain
2025-05-20 07:25:34 +0200sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2025-05-20 07:26:32 +0200 <monochrom> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quotition_and_partition for more hair-splitting
2025-05-20 07:27:39 +0200 <monochrom> oh and don't get me started about that time a Taiwanese teacher posted on Youtube very dogmatic distinction between 4*5 and 5*4.
2025-05-20 07:27:45 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2025-05-20 07:28:19 +0200 <EvanR> a dogmatic distinction you need to use agda
2025-05-20 07:28:40 +0200DragonMaus(~dragonmau@user/dragonmaus) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2025-05-20 07:28:45 +0200DrachenMaus(~dragonmau@user/dragonmaus) DragonMaus
2025-05-20 07:29:12 +0200 <EvanR> that quotitive vs partitive is exactly that
2025-05-20 07:30:02 +0200pabs3(~pabs3@user/pabs3) pabs3
2025-05-20 07:30:02 +0200 <EvanR> in graphical linear algebra 0*5 and 5*0 is distinct (array dimensions)
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