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| 2025-03-06 00:13:21 +0100 | zlqrvx | (~zlqrvx@user/zlqrvx) (Quit: %quit%) |
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| 2025-03-06 00:20:38 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Liamzee> tbh i feel like the problem with Haskell frameworks is that, while yeah, you can get Brick to just work with simpleMain or some other thing, the problem is that the distance between "default options" and "write my own options" is too big |
| 2025-03-06 00:21:02 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Liamzee> I DON'T want to add vty to imports list in order to forge an attr map thing |
| 2025-03-06 00:21:35 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Liamzee> it's like at this point I want objects and sum types, i.e, it's nice to be able to customize |
| 2025-03-06 00:21:57 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Liamzee> but it's also nice to just stick to defaults |
| 2025-03-06 00:23:27 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> I don't quite understand |
| 2025-03-06 00:24:08 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> are you saying, too many things require adding a package and a bunch of imports, and you'd rather have a richer standard library built in or near by ? |
| 2025-03-06 00:26:42 +0100 | xacktm | (xacktm@user/xacktm) (Quit: fBNC - https://bnc4free.com) |
| 2025-03-06 00:27:19 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Liamzee> https://hackage.haskell.org/package/brick-2.8.2/docs/Brick-Main.html |
| 2025-03-06 00:27:43 +0100 | Smiles | (uid551636@id-551636.lymington.irccloud.com) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) |
| 2025-03-06 00:27:59 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-03-06 00:28:22 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Liamzee> the only two things i really need are app draw and app handle event |
| 2025-03-06 00:29:01 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Liamzee> app choose cursor got a lambda, namely: _ _ -> Nothing |
| 2025-03-06 00:30:01 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Liamzee> what i mean is that framework interfaces should be built more around defaults, then the option to overwrite the defaults |
| 2025-03-06 00:30:10 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> many frameworks provide a defaultConfig, maybe brick could use more of that |
| 2025-03-06 00:30:42 +0100 | j1n37 | (~j1n37@user/j1n37) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2025-03-06 00:30:48 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> but I don't see where it's needed, since it provided simple entry points instead |
| 2025-03-06 00:31:43 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> but it sounds like they weren't quite ergonomic for you |
| 2025-03-06 00:32:28 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 2025-03-06 00:33:52 +0100 | j1n37 | (~j1n37@user/j1n37) j1n37 |
| 2025-03-06 00:34:41 +0100 | chewybread | (~chewybrea@user/chewybread) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 2025-03-06 00:35:32 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Liamzee> well, here's a problem with forging an attrmap via vty, i had it set to ^>= 6.3 |
| 2025-03-06 00:36:14 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Liamzee> brick had it set to ^>= 6.0 |
| 2025-03-06 00:36:53 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Liamzee> cabal crashed, had to change vty requirements |
| 2025-03-06 00:37:01 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Liamzee> erm, cabal wouldn't let me compile |
| 2025-03-06 00:39:04 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Liamzee> sorry for whinging |
| 2025-03-06 00:41:34 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> it's ok to complain, what what are you complaining about :) |
| 2025-03-06 00:41:40 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> but what |
| 2025-03-06 00:42:04 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> ergonomics of developing with haskell in general ? |
| 2025-03-06 00:42:16 +0100 | Sgeo | (~Sgeo@user/sgeo) Sgeo |
| 2025-03-06 00:43:21 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-03-06 00:43:26 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Liamzee> I mean that frameworks often are, Haskellers are used to it, pick it up quickly, but aren't the most user friendly |
| 2025-03-06 00:43:41 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Liamzee> with a framework the first step i try to get to is "runs with user-modifiable defaults" |
| 2025-03-06 00:43:54 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Liamzee> like, with Monomer, I tried to figure out the minimum program that would run under it |
| 2025-03-06 00:44:29 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Liamzee> then the next step is to start modifying the minimum program to do what i need |
| 2025-03-06 00:47:57 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2025-03-06 00:50:01 +0100 | peterbecich | (~Thunderbi@syn-047-229-123-186.res.spectrum.com) peterbecich |
| 2025-03-06 00:50:58 +0100 | chewybread | (~chewybrea@user/chewybread) chewybread |
| 2025-03-06 00:51:47 +0100 | xacktm | (xacktm@user/xacktm) xacktm |
| 2025-03-06 00:52:01 +0100 | __monty__ | (~toonn@user/toonn) (Quit: leaving) |
| 2025-03-06 00:52:34 +0100 | krei-se- | (~krei-se@p3ee0fd57.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) krei-se |
| 2025-03-06 00:53:02 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Liamzee> monomer has a similar problem in that they've chosen not to package fonts with the program |
| 2025-03-06 00:53:12 +0100 | <monochrom> | I am not convinced that it is not also the same issue with all frameworks for all domains in all languages. |
| 2025-03-06 00:53:45 +0100 | krei-se | (~krei-se@p200300f1cf3232002411defffe902013.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2025-03-06 00:54:24 +0100 | Googulator | (~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-14b2-c443-5a96-b49d-1dd5.pool6.digikabel.hu) (Quit: Client closed) |
| 2025-03-06 00:54:41 +0100 | Googulator | (~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-14b2-c443-5a96-b49d-1dd5.pool6.digikabel.hu) |
| 2025-03-06 00:54:57 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> so, libs and tools aren't always usable ? I think noone will disagree with you |
| 2025-03-06 00:55:24 +0100 | chewybread | (~chewybrea@user/chewybread) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2025-03-06 00:55:28 +0100 | alfiee | (~alfiee@user/alfiee) alfiee |
| 2025-03-06 00:55:52 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> that's normal with free things developed in someone's spare time.. but also there's a culture/norms of UX that are weaker or different in haskell compared to other ecosystems |
| 2025-03-06 00:55:59 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> eg, ruby |
| 2025-03-06 00:56:25 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> it's hard to fix that retroactively |
| 2025-03-06 00:58:43 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-03-06 01:00:10 +0100 | alfiee | (~alfiee@user/alfiee) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2025-03-06 01:01:27 +0100 | messewix | (~jmc@c-73-204-219-232.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) |
| 2025-03-06 01:01:27 +0100 | messewix | (~jmc@c-73-204-219-232.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) (Changing host) |
| 2025-03-06 01:01:27 +0100 | messewix | (~jmc@user/messewix) messewix |
| 2025-03-06 01:01:41 +0100 | Tuplanolla | (~Tuplanoll@91-159-69-59.elisa-laajakaista.fi) (Quit: Leaving.) |
| 2025-03-06 01:02:11 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Liamzee> well, thanks for stating the situation; I thought it was just me |
| 2025-03-06 01:02:39 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> definitely not |
| 2025-03-06 01:04:09 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> it's interesting to think how to shift that in a significant way, if that's worth doing |
| 2025-03-06 01:05:24 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2025-03-06 01:07:11 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> many individuals and small companies have tried, and today's haskell is better because of those efforts, hopefully |
| 2025-03-06 01:14:26 +0100 | wildtrees | (~user@pool-108-26-34-85.syrcny.east.verizon.net) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-03-06 01:16:48 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
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| 2025-03-06 01:25:05 +0100 | Goodbye_Vincent1 | (cyvahl@freakshells.net) (Remote host closed the connection) |
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| 2025-03-06 01:51:56 +0100 | euouae | (~euouae@user/euouae) () |
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| 2025-03-06 02:00:58 +0100 | j1n37- | (~j1n37@user/j1n37) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2025-03-06 02:02:55 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-03-06 02:05:12 +0100 | j1n37 | (~j1n37@user/j1n37) j1n37 |
| 2025-03-06 02:07:18 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
| 2025-03-06 02:09:38 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Liamzee> well, you're familiar with the ex-FP complete (not sure if he's still there) who can on-ramp a new hire into being able to contribute to a codebase in 2 weeks, right? |
| 2025-03-06 02:12:38 +0100 | chewybread | (~chewybrea@user/chewybread) chewybread |
| 2025-03-06 02:13:04 +0100 | chewybread | (~chewybrea@user/chewybread) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-03-06 02:13:07 +0100 | eL_Bart0 | (eL_Bart0@dietunichtguten.org) |
| 2025-03-06 02:18:18 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-03-06 02:22:22 +0100 | kaskal- | (~kaskal@84-115-231-2.cable.dynamic.surfer.at) |
| 2025-03-06 02:23:27 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 2025-03-06 02:23:29 +0100 | poscat | (~poscat@user/poscat) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 2025-03-06 02:23:34 +0100 | kaskal | (~kaskal@84-115-238-111.cable.dynamic.surfer.at) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2025-03-06 02:29:57 +0100 | alfiee | (~alfiee@user/alfiee) alfiee |
| 2025-03-06 02:32:16 +0100 | poscat | (~poscat@user/poscat) poscat |
| 2025-03-06 02:33:26 +0100 | tessier | (~tessier@ec2-184-72-149-67.compute-1.amazonaws.com) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
| 2025-03-06 02:33:39 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-03-06 02:34:08 +0100 | alfiee | (~alfiee@user/alfiee) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 2025-03-06 02:38:18 +0100 | xff0x | (~xff0x@fsb6a9491c.tkyc517.ap.nuro.jp) |
| 2025-03-06 02:40:23 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 2025-03-06 02:45:18 +0100 | tessier | (~tessier@ec2-184-72-149-67.compute-1.amazonaws.com) tessier |
| 2025-03-06 02:48:26 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Liamzee> i asked him on reddit and he said it's closer to 3 months for comfortable with any library :( |
| 2025-03-06 02:51:43 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-03-06 02:52:59 +0100 | <geekosaur> | I can't say I've seen much difference between Haskell and other languages in that regard |
| 2025-03-06 02:56:18 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2025-03-06 02:56:34 +0100 | fp | (~Thunderbi@89-27-29-68.bb.dnainternet.fi) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 2025-03-06 03:03:55 +0100 | machinedgod | (~machinedg@d108-173-18-100.abhsia.telus.net) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) |
| 2025-03-06 03:05:44 +0100 | Feuermagier | (~Feuermagi@user/feuermagier) Feuermagier |
| 2025-03-06 03:05:51 +0100 | Feuermagier | (~Feuermagi@user/feuermagier) (Client Quit) |
| 2025-03-06 03:07:05 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-03-06 03:08:17 +0100 | <c_wraith> | my experience was that two weeks is sufficient to be able to make small fixes guided by compiler errors and code review |
| 2025-03-06 03:08:57 +0100 | <c_wraith> | Having a solid understanding on my own took longer |
| 2025-03-06 03:11:59 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2025-03-06 03:12:02 +0100 | Square | (~Square@user/square) Square |
| 2025-03-06 03:14:31 +0100 | vanishingideal | (~vanishing@user/vanishingideal) vanishingideal |
| 2025-03-06 03:16:00 +0100 | alfiee | (~alfiee@user/alfiee) alfiee |
| 2025-03-06 03:18:31 +0100 | fp | (~Thunderbi@89-27-29-68.bb.dnainternet.fi) fp |
| 2025-03-06 03:20:39 +0100 | alfiee | (~alfiee@user/alfiee) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 2025-03-06 03:22:29 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-03-06 03:27:48 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 2025-03-06 03:37:51 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-03-06 03:42:09 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
| 2025-03-06 03:51:52 +0100 | peterbecich | (~Thunderbi@syn-047-229-123-186.res.spectrum.com) peterbecich |
| 2025-03-06 03:53:15 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-03-06 03:55:38 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Liamzee> by the way, do we use appEndo (foldMap Endo $ replicate count myFun)? |
| 2025-03-06 03:57:28 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 2025-03-06 04:00:24 +0100 | alfiee | (~alfiee@user/alfiee) alfiee |
| 2025-03-06 04:05:14 +0100 | vanishingideal | (~vanishing@user/vanishingideal) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2025-03-06 04:05:26 +0100 | alfiee | (~alfiee@user/alfiee) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) |
| 2025-03-06 04:07:06 +0100 | vanishingideal | (~vanishing@user/vanishingideal) vanishingideal |
| 2025-03-06 04:08:36 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-03-06 04:13:36 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) |
| 2025-03-06 04:24:09 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-03-06 04:28:59 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2025-03-06 04:36:11 +0100 | bitdex | (~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex) bitdex |